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#rockbox log for 2002-12-06

00:00:08 Join Moof [0] (~moof@
00:03:13Triple-z :P
00:08:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:16:56 Nick BoD[tv] is now known as BoD[] (
00:32:16 Part kargatron
00:36:30Jet8810I need to pick up 2100 mah batteries for recorder, but just spent like $100 on PDA stuff in past two weeks
00:43:39BoD[]i'd like to have a reversecounter in rockbox
00:44:33BoD[]i should submit this in the frequests:)
00:45:24Jet8810any idea how much longer playlists queuing will take?
00:45:55LinusNBoD[]: reversecounter?
00:48:08 Join TotMacher [0] (
00:48:28 Quit TotMacher (Client Quit)
00:48:36 Join TotMacher [0] (
00:48:36Jet8810Linus, do you happen to know the answer to my question? :-p
00:49:24LinusNJet8810: i know all answers to all questions :-)
00:49:33Jet8810care to answer it? :-p
00:49:48LinusNJet8810: nobody is working on it
00:49:59Jet8810do not that many people want it?
00:50:05Jet8810that is the one hole missing...IMO
00:50:16LinusNas it is now, almost only 2 people are actually working on stuff
00:50:26LinusNi and zagor
00:50:49 Quit TotMacher (Client Quit)
00:50:59 Join TotMacher [0] (
00:51:07Jet8810do you have a lot you need to do before this will become a reality?
00:51:16LinusNall other people seem busy with other projects
00:51:25Jet8810I would REALLY want to help, but my computer language ends at html ;)
00:51:27Jet88103.2 at that heh
00:51:41LinusNJet8810: yes, the recording and some bugs
00:51:57*Jet8810 glances at johnny
00:52:16Jet8810I can wait of course
00:52:22Jet8810btw, is there any way to give a donation to rockbox crew?
00:52:36LinusNJet8810: i don't think so
00:52:54Jet8810why dont you set up a paypal account?
00:52:59LinusNwe have a few
00:53:05Jet8810you deserve a reward for your efforts! along with the other main guys (Bjorn)
00:53:12Jet8810and zagor
00:53:13LinusNbut it is rather a question about who gets the money
00:53:26Jet8810well who has been with project all along and put forth most effort?
00:53:36Jet8810You, Bjorn and Zagor?
00:53:51LinusNbjörn and zagor are the same person :-)
00:54:02Jet8810really? haha
00:54:04Jet8810so just you two?
00:54:13LinusNand Bagder
00:54:20LinusNand a few more guys
00:54:32LinusNbut i guess us 3 made the most
00:54:45Jet8810does original archos firmware have queueing?
00:54:55Jet8810because if so, cant you just copy the code?
00:55:00BoD[]by "reversecounter" I mean a counter that displays the amount of time before a particular date
00:55:01Jet8810or not that easy?
00:55:08BoD[]there has to be a real word for that :)
00:55:11LinusNBoD[]: for what?
00:55:32BoD[]for a "counter that displays the amount of time before a particular date"
00:55:53BoD[]countdown yes!!! that's it:)
00:55:58LinusNBoD[]: i mean for what use?
00:56:08LinusNremaining time of song?
00:56:23BoD[]well no
00:56:27BoD[]for any event
00:56:36Jet8810can I say....get a dayplanner?
00:56:47BoD[]yeah I know this has nothing to do with an mp3 player but still
00:56:47Jet8810or get a PDA or one of those cheap electronic things
00:56:51LinusNBoD[]: alarm clock?
00:56:56Jet8810no speaker
00:56:57BoD[]linus : kind of :)
00:57:17BoD[]well It could play some special mp3 when the alarm reach the date !
00:57:23LinusNor "678 days left to World Cup"?
00:57:30BoD[]exactly :))))
00:57:37BoD[]I like to have this kind of stuff
00:57:47BoD[]especially when it's displayed in number of seconds
00:58:02BoD[]"only 672416571 seconds left before christmas"
00:58:14LinusNBoD[]: you are silly! :-)
00:58:24BoD[]yes I am :))
00:58:26*Jet8810 thinks queuing has priority heh
00:58:42Jet8810Linus, btw, could you copy code for queuing from original archos firmware?
00:58:50BoD[]I'm sure I could code this kind of thing myself if I really wanted it !!!
00:59:10BoD[]it's simple and I know c
00:59:14Triple-zdo in the demo a graph like in winamp
00:59:31Triple-zi mean regular one with the gumpin lines
00:59:55Jet8810BoD...PLEASE!! heh
00:59:56LinusNJet8810: i can't copy code from archos
01:00:13BoD[]please what :)
01:00:16LinusNyes, and incredibly hard
01:00:35Triple-zor do the song name moving with the music
01:00:40LinusNimplementing a queue function is dead easy
01:01:00LinusNthe hard part is doing it like we want it to work
01:01:17LinusNpeople will expect it to work with playlists and dir play
01:01:33LinusNpeople will expect it to work with resume
01:03:39LinusNdamn, when i removed the MAS polling on the recorder, MP2 files stopped working...
01:03:49Jet8810alright, just reinforcing the request heh
01:04:06Jet8810a lot better to have whole list queued then to waste time listening to find next song
01:04:09BoD[]and when did you do that ?
01:04:13Jet8810kills enjoyability of it :)
01:04:24Jet8810how do you use queue in archos firmware anyway?
01:04:57LinusNBoD[]: when i added the recording
01:05:57BoD[]do you know the differences between the 20021130 and 20021201 versions ?
01:06:54LinusNonly corrections for build failures
01:07:10BoD[]you mean ... no changes in the code ???
01:07:18LinusNand an attempt to add m3u only file filter
01:07:46BoD[]because the issues I have do not happen in the 20021130
01:08:01BoD[]but they happen in the 20021201
01:08:32BoD[]maybe they are just random and depend on the phase of the moon
01:09:27LinusNwhat problems?
01:10:13BoD[]HITACHI_DK23CA-20 going off between songs
01:11:36BoD[]nop, the disk just go off when I press next
01:11:44BoD[]not always but very often
01:11:51LinusNBoD[]: instead of spinning up?
01:12:06BoD[]I believe so
01:12:28LinusNok, and what happens if you set "disk poweroff" to "No"?
01:12:42BoD[]it changes nothing
01:12:51LinusNhave you tried a later build?
01:12:52BoD[]in fact it is on no
01:12:58 Join probonic [0] (
01:13:17BoD[]I tried a build from today morning
01:13:31BoD[]same thing :)
01:13:47BoD[]then I tried the 20021201 : same thing
01:13:58BoD[]then I tried the 20021130 : no problem
01:15:28BoD[]in fact it seems not to happen if I press next fast
01:15:49LinusNit sounds a little like a battery problem
01:15:51BoD[]but if I wait a bit between two songs then it halts
01:16:15BoD[]like if it has not enough power ?
01:17:12LinusNyes, worn out battery cells can cause the drive to not spin up
01:17:37BoD[]yes but this should not happen when it is plugged sould it ?
01:17:38LinusNthey can be at 100% and still not be able to give that "kick" that the drive needs
01:17:51LinusNBoD[]: plugged or not does not matter
01:18:09BoD[]didn't know that
01:18:40LinusNi had that problem once, the drive didn't spin up correctly, one of my cells was worn out
01:19:16BoD[]i'll try with the new batteries
01:19:20LinusNthe batteries are needed to supply enough current to the hard drive
01:19:35LinusNas an ackumulator
01:20:01BoD[]but i'll also try again with build 20021201
01:20:07LinusNdo so
01:20:12BoD[]because it's very strange :)))
01:20:14LinusNand please try the latest bleeding edge
01:20:28LinusNthat needs testing
01:21:03BoD[]well with this problem of mine it has been not very pleasent to use the unit :)
01:21:17LinusNi can see that
01:21:18BoD[]i had to reboot between almost every tracks :))
01:21:31LinusNnot gapless then? :-)
01:21:38BoD[]hahahh :)
01:21:57BoD[]by the way
01:22:00LinusNany strange sounds from the drive?
01:22:11BoD[]is there a way to retrieve older builds ?
01:22:16LinusNlike click-click when it is supposed to spin up
01:22:24LinusNBoD[]: not from the site
01:22:36BoD[]nop only the sound when it goes off (high pitched)
01:22:45BoD[]like the drive cries ;)
01:23:20BoD[]like when you unplug the usb it does the same sound
01:23:33LinusNBoD[]: always that sound?
01:23:37BoD[]i believe it's not too good for the drive when it does that
01:23:46BoD[]yes always
01:23:50LinusNnot good
01:24:20LinusNthat means that is hasn't gone to sleep before the hard disk power is shut off
01:24:48BoD[]so it's like a power off problem
01:24:57LinusNBoD[]: what is your spindown timer set to?
01:25:08BoD[]hmm the default
01:25:46BoD[]5 s
01:25:50LinusNand it really shouldn't sound like that when poweroff is set to No
01:26:29LinusNset it to something high, like 8
01:28:01BoD[]wait i'll try the bleeding edge now
01:28:56LinusNwatch out for serious skipping :-)
01:31:58BoD[]ok i just made it halt!
01:32:16BoD[]i'll try with the old one again
01:32:17LinusNdid it sound strange?
01:32:19BoD[]to be SURE
01:32:29BoD[]yes the same high pitch sound
01:37:29BoD[]i can't make it bug with the old one
01:38:05BoD[]it's making go crazy :)
01:38:17LinusNand no sound?
01:38:31BoD[]nono it works just fine with the old one
01:38:49LinusNok, load the bleeding edge and make sure that poweroff is NO
01:39:04BoD[]well I'm sure :) it's set to no !!!
01:39:50LinusNBoD[]: did you download the 1130 build from the daily build page, or is it a bleeding edge from 1130?
01:40:19BoD[]i downloaded that :
01:40:33BoD[]oh you mean the old one
01:40:44BoD[]hm it's this one :
01:41:41 Quit Moof (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:41:57LinusNBoD[]: this is so strange
01:42:38 Join Moof [0] (~moof@
01:43:00BoD[]yes :(
01:43:09BoD[]strange bugs are not the best
01:43:20LinusNBoD[]: the whining sound sure sounds like it is powering off the hard drive
01:43:33LinusNwhen it shoudln't
01:44:04BoD[]is it normal to power off the hard drive when trying to change track ? :)
01:44:16LinusNabsolutely not
01:44:17 Quit Triple-z (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
01:44:44BoD[]i really have to try with new batteries
01:45:02LinusNwhen does the sound come btw?
01:45:15BoD[]maybe it tries to read some stuff and need too much power
01:45:38BoD[]well I'm listening to a track.. .then I press next
01:45:42BoD[]it works
01:45:51BoD[]then if I press next 'quickly'
01:45:54BoD[]it works too
01:46:02BoD[]but if I wait a little time
01:46:05BoD[]and press next
01:46:21BoD[]then screen displays infos about the next song
01:46:39BoD[]but it does not play it, instead it goes off (noise) and the red light stays on
01:47:03LinusNso it spins up, and then down again?
01:47:21 Quit probonic (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:47:26BoD[]hmmm I think it's that
01:48:00BoD[]i'll try again :)
01:48:04BoD[]with new build
01:51:10BoD[]ok I just had a new behaviour :(
01:51:40BoD[]I pressed next (after spindown) then the light went red but no noise and it keeps on reading the track
01:52:08BoD[]got the noise when turning off the unit
01:53:13LinusNhow do you know it is reading?
01:53:28BoD[]i mean playing
01:53:32BoD[]the sound
01:53:46LinusNaha, but the led was constantly ON
01:55:11BoD[]and the disk was on too because when I turned the unit off it did the sound
01:55:20 Quit ]ack[ ()
01:55:22LinusNyeah, taht's expected
01:56:09BoD[]ok wait
01:56:19BoD[]that was with the 1201 build ;)
01:56:31BoD[]it does not do that with the 1206
01:57:03LinusNand what dows it do with 1206?
01:57:19BoD[]if I wait till it has spinned down
01:57:23BoD[]it works
01:57:38BoD[]if I wait so it doesnt spin down it works too
01:58:03BoD[]if I press next WHILE it's spinning donw (is this possible?) it bugs
01:58:43LinusNmaybe within 2 seconds from the drive has spun down?
01:59:43BoD[]it's hard to explain :((
02:00:24LinusNwell, gotta go to sleep now
02:00:33 Join probonic [0] (
02:00:34BoD[]yes mee too
02:00:42LinusNcu tomorrow
02:00:45BoD[]i'll tell you exactly what I see tomorrow!
02:00:54LinusNnite all!
02:00:54BoD[]thank you :) bye !!!
02:01:05 Part LinusN
02:01:42 Quit BoD[] ("2:01 argg")
02:09:02***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:47:25 Quit probonic ()
03:12:45 Join mrsubway [0] (
03:13:03mrsubwayHi. Is the guy who reccomended the Koss Porta Pros here?
03:14:34mrsubwayIn any event, if you're logging this, I want to say THANKS!
03:14:44mrsubwayI got a pair and they sound amazing! Thanks again.
03:15:17mrsubwayPS: Still love Rockbox, and can't wait for version 2!
03:15:20 Quit mrsubway (Client Quit)
03:54:41 Join adi|dads [0] (
04:09:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:13:16 Part adi|dads
05:44:46Mode"#rockbox -oo Hadaka logbot " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
06:09:05***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:00:36 Nick dw|gone is now known as dwihno (dwihno@Bald067.Baldakinen.Umea.SE)
08:05:48dwihnoGood morning everyone!
08:09:06***No seen item changed, no save performed.
08:17:35dwihnoSomewhere deep inside me, I found, the child I used to be.
08:22:24 Join Bagder [241] (
08:30:43dwihnoYay for Bagder!
08:30:59dwihnoZagor appeared on TV?
08:31:00dwihnoHow come?
08:31:03dwihnoEfterlyst? :)
08:31:12Bagderregarding his appartment swapping site
08:31:22Bagderhe was on "ABC-nytt"
08:32:07Bagderhis site got quite a boost from that
08:32:52dwihnoCool :)
08:32:55dwihnoYay for Zay!
08:33:23dwihnoThat building next to the logo looks like a simcity building
08:34:39dwihnoBeware of the trianglebyte! :D
08:34:55Bagderit gets worse than just 3 ;-)
08:35:09Bagderhe shows 5-corner swaps
08:35:20Bagdermind boggling
08:56:33 Join pyvasene [0] (~pyvasene@
09:06:12 Join merwin [0] (~none@
09:06:34merwinSo, how do I switch to a daily bundle of list e-mails instead of individual ones?
09:07:04Bagdercurrently there is no such option
09:07:14Bagderbut we're discussing switching over to one that allows it
09:12:46merwinMy e-mail client filters it all into one folder anyways...
09:12:52merwinit's just for ease of use really
09:13:34Bagderthe main reason to change would be that majordomo that we use now has no really neat way of dealing with bounces, so thet swamp Zagor pretty much now
09:15:32dwihnomerwin: what client do you use?
09:15:44merwindwihno: InScribe win32
09:17:19dwihnomerwin: I'll check :)
09:21:23merwinthere's a free version, but the retail (all of $20) adds stuff like forwarding, multiple boxes
09:21:28merwinerr, not forwarding
09:21:54merwinThe cool part is that he makes the software for Linux/BeOS/Win32
09:22:12dwihnoI like mutt
09:22:16dwihnoFor my basic needs
09:22:30merwinI'm forced into windows
09:30:00merwingotta split, ttyl
09:30:01 Quit merwin ()
09:41:26 Join kargatron [0] (
09:42:16kargatronah, having Year in WPS totally rocks. love it.
09:45:35dwihnoHaving a flickering WPS rules too ;D
09:46:16kargatronwhen does that happen? in just some fraction of units?
09:46:33kargatronwas busy yesterday, couldn't keep track of flurry of worrk & problems
09:47:21kargatronbut since i'm leaving for 3 weeks, tomorrow, i uploaded two different 'safety' builds to ROLO to if the latest is screwy. :)
09:48:31kargatronBagder, do you know how zagor handled genre? is there a read-only genre-table file used to match the genre-tag-number to?
09:48:48Bagderthe strings are built-in
09:48:49kargatron(i thought the tag value was # only...)
09:49:07kargatronoh, in the code
09:49:09Bagderall the id3 ones and the winamp extended ones
09:51:54kargatronweird tho, my jazz cuts seem to default to my folder-org, as if %ig is null:
09:52:07kargatron%?ig<%ig|%?d3<%?d4<%d4:>%d3|%d2>> # sorry so complicated
09:52:41kargatrona cut with a 'jazz' genre still displays %d4:%d3
09:53:17kargatronnot that that hurts, since my folder-org is genre anyway (effectively, i faked %ig before). Still odd tho
09:53:47Bagderperhaps %ig bugs in the conditional context
09:54:09kargatronbut it works with other genres - it's just jazz that's defaulting
09:54:32kargatronotoh, maybe there's a bracketing issue, and it's actually showing me: %ig:%d3
09:54:46kargatroni wouldn't be able to tell the diff, since %d4 is also 'Jazz'
09:54:56kargatronthe nesting looks right tho
09:57:13kargatronso the 1206 build is 'acting normally', now that i'm just trying it. When do people see problems? Just inconsistently, or bitrate-dependent?
09:57:51BagderI'm not sure this one has problems
09:58:14BagderLinus increased the "safety" level yday
09:58:22kargatronoh, i gathered from skimming last night people had issues
09:58:53 Join Zagor_ [242] (
09:59:00 Nick Zagor_ is now known as Zagor (
09:59:04Bagderthere's also a "skip buffer" setting you can change now
09:59:11Bagderthat might improve things too
09:59:20kargatronZagor, i was giving thanks for Year, so thanks! love it
10:01:10kargatroni'm music-history-anal enough that it feels like I immediately know twice as much about the track with it :)
10:06:34*Bagder likes pine's new threading
10:09:07***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:17:07 Join Triple-z [0] (
10:22:04*Zagor still prefers mutt
10:22:38dwihnoZagor: tell me about your configuration
10:23:03Zagoruh? mutt config?
10:23:11dwihnoya :D
10:23:37Zagorset quote_regexp="^ *[a-zA-Z]*[]>|}%=][]>|}:=]*"
10:23:43Zagorset index_format="%Z %[%b %d] %-20.20L %s"
10:23:49Zagorthat enough? ;)
10:28:36Zagorcan someone please come up with some wild ideas about how spinup timing can fail?
10:28:50BagderI can't ;-/
10:29:19 Quit TotMacher ()
10:29:25Zagorhorribly annoying
10:31:06kargatronin what observed situations does it fail? (I ask out of curiosity - I won't be able to help your qstn)
10:32:02Bagdersometimes it measures a far too fast spinup
10:32:13Bagderlike 600ms
10:32:19Bagderwhich just isn't possible
10:32:45Bagderit messes up the watermark calculations
10:33:00kargatronwhich then causes playback burps?
10:33:31kargatronlimited to certain hardware, or unknown?
10:33:50Bagderseems to happen for all of us
10:34:10BagderLinus added code that ignores values less than 3500ms
10:34:25kargatronahh, the safety level you referred to, ok
10:35:09kargatronbut a 3.5s spinup time - am i misunderstanding what that is - what takes 3.5s minimum?
10:35:30Bagderfrom a powered off disk until we can read data from it
10:35:41kargatronoh, that long huh?
10:35:52kargatronwhat's the spinup time for non-poweroff?
10:35:59Bagderwell, since we can't measure we need to play safe
10:36:30Bagdernon-poweroff seems to be faster, but I don't know by how much
10:37:27kargatronis spin-up time a dynamic value? or a single typical value for each player?
10:37:43Bagderit's calculated on every spinup
10:39:10kargatroni feel like i'm asking too many naive questions, but:
10:39:18kargatronthe sequence is:
10:39:23johnnygood morning *yawn*
10:39:34kargatronpoweroffed disk, spinup, read, fill buffer
10:39:47kargatronbut the goal is to fill the buffer at the right time, correct?
10:40:03kargatronso you're working at starting at some time before that, that's unknown
10:40:24kargatronhow can you start at the right time, but simultaneously get a spinup time value to use?
10:40:34Zagorwe use the last value
10:40:38Bagderbased on the spinup time and the bitrate of the mp3, we can estimate how much buffer there's left when we must issue the spinup value
10:40:41kargatronoh, ok, an estimate
10:41:03Bagderthe spinup command I mean
10:42:00kargatronto the spinup time is like the weather - yesterday's weather's a better forecast than a single average forecast?
10:42:10BagderZagor: could it be that it mistakenly spins up fast at times and then goes to retry on lin 234 in ata.c?
10:42:46Bagderkargatron: well, we need proper values first, then we can start debating last value or average ;-)
10:44:10Bagderof course, an average would somewhat hide occational bad values
10:45:35Zagorbut it would still be risky
10:46:13Zagorah, that could be it!
10:47:04Zagorcan you try a fixed version? just copy the spinup_time and spinup assignments into the fail block above
10:47:25Zagoror maybe simply move the assignments below the next check
10:47:38Bagderme test
10:47:44Zagormove down, that's better
10:49:19 Join Triple-X [0] (~Mp3@
10:50:19 Quit Triple-z (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
10:54:16Zagordwihno: your wps is pretty nice. a bit cluttered at the bottom, but I like the top 3 lines
10:55:09kargatrondecoration implied there?
10:56:07Zagori think the idea with a wps submission system is pretty nice. maybe we should add a tracker for it
10:56:09kargatrona 'pretty nice' wps - i assume that noting it means there's more than raw info
10:56:30dwihnoZagor: Yes, the bottom is a bitt cluttery unless you use the tight font
10:56:41kargatronsome sort of pretty formatting or something
10:56:45Zagorno, I just like the way he uses conditional tags to extract info from the dir path if there is no id3 info
10:57:01dwihnoZagor: You can call me WPS master ;)
10:57:04ZagorBagder: ??
10:57:12dwihnoZagor: Now pretty please check the scroll twitch bug ;)
10:57:27Bagderhm, I guess it doesn't spinup on the first attempt?
10:57:31Zagorit doesn't scroll right now :)
10:57:38ZagorBagder: right
10:58:22Zagorok, so that wasn't it then :(
10:58:43BagderI noticed something now
10:58:57BagderI think it was modified twice in one single spinup
11:00:00BagderI'll check closer...
11:01:17Bagderugh, it gets so silly its hard to say
11:01:32Zagori'll call you
11:04:32 Join LinusN [0] (
11:05:08Zagorhi linus
11:06:14LinusNany idea about the spinup timer?
11:06:23Zagorwe're discussing it on the phone
11:06:44Zagorit seems to be related to when the mpeg thread calls ata_sleep()
11:06:50Bagderirc, compile and talking in phone
11:06:58Zagorit appears a second access is made *after* ata_sleep()
11:07:06LinusNi think it may have to do with the 2-second gap between sleep and poweroff
11:07:09Zagorand that messes up stuff
11:07:12Bagderthe time is set twice
11:08:07LinusNmaybe ata_flush() has something to do with it?
11:08:47Zagorhow? ata_read() doesn't return until ata_flush() is done too. it's synchronous
11:09:09LinusNyeah, just brainstorming
11:11:04dwihnoFa la la
11:11:07BagderI can see it clearly now
11:11:12dwihnoLinusN: Did you find out what's wrong with the kebabsång?
11:11:17BagderI changed refresh rate in the debug screen
11:11:27Zagor"I can see clearly, now the rain is gone." la la la...
11:11:33LinusNdwihno: it's an MP2 song
11:11:43Bagderthe second ~500-600 value is set about the same time when the red led is shut off
11:11:54ZagorLinusN: nice! we haven't tested many of those
11:12:08LinusNand my changed (for the recording) that uses IRQ instead of polling has affected MP2 playback
11:12:45LinusNit seems that there is a bug in the MAS that makes it toggle the DEMAND (EOD) pin a little too much
11:13:25ZagorLinusN: what happens if you call ata_sleep() and there's another MPEG_NEED_DATA event in the queue?
11:13:40LinusNZagor: it should ignore it
11:14:12Bagderthis happens almost 100%
11:14:23LinusNwait a sec
11:15:32LinusNif the DMA has played a block of data before mpeg_thread processes the "stray" MPEG_NEED_DATA message, it may try to access it again
11:17:04LinusNbut why does that measure 600ms?
11:17:29LinusNthe drive should have spun down, or?
11:18:42LinusNBagder: can you try a source code change?
11:18:48Bagdersure tell me
11:19:16LinusN case MPEG_NEED_DATA:
11:19:18LinusN if(!filling)
11:19:18LinusN break;
11:19:18DBUGEnqueued KICK LinusN
11:19:18LinusN free_space_left = mp3buf_read - mp3buf_write;
11:19:26BagderZagor: uh, we postpone the lunch a few mins
11:19:45LinusNadd the if(!filling) as described
11:21:08LinusNgotta reboot (silly usb-storage)
11:22:21LinusNwow, it survived!
11:23:05Bagderno fun
11:23:12Bagdersame procedure
11:23:46LinusNthat is interesting
11:23:52BagderI can see it change
11:24:05Bagderand then a second later it changes again
11:24:54LinusNdoes it behave the same when dirplaying and playlisting?
11:25:23Bagderthis is dirplay
11:25:56Bagdertrying a playlist
11:27:15BagderI can see the red led go on... change the time, go off, go on again... change the time and go off..
11:29:16Zagorsounds exactly like a stray read
11:29:54Zagorit will be short because the disk hasn't spun down yet, so it only does the drive firmware reset and then is back up, which might very well take only 600ms
11:29:56LinusNthe mpeg thread does two reads
11:30:13LinusNbecause the buffer wraps
11:30:37Zagoryes but it doesn't call ata_sleep() between those two reads, right?
11:30:44LinusNno it doesn't
11:31:51Bagderand you can't see this on your units?
11:32:30Zagori have never seen it, no
11:33:00 Join langhaarrocker [0] (
11:33:30Bagderhey langhaarrocker
11:34:12LinusNBagders disk is probably slower than ours
11:34:21BagderI bet
11:34:26Bagderit does show ~5100 ms
11:34:34Zagorthat's a lot
11:35:23Zagori'd like to do some exact current measurements, so see if there is a break point where poweroff isn't worth it due to longer spinup time.
11:35:39LinusNBoD[] has problems, his drive shuts off while spinning, even when poweroff=no
11:36:47ZagorLinusN: yeah I know. it's very odd. and even more so that his problems started with the 1201 build, which didn't change any ata code!
11:37:48LinusNwe ran tests this night
11:38:15LinusNreally weird
11:41:26LinusNwe really need a 1.4 specific users manual
11:43:59 Join bobTHC [0] (
11:44:05bobTHChi all!
11:59:33dwihnoI tested the build of yesterday
11:59:47dwihnoI sense a lot of buffer underruns
11:59:57dwihnoBut reading the CVS logs, I presume those are fixed? :)
12:01:34 Join ken0 [0] (marklar2@
12:01:34 Quit ken0_ (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
12:02:09LinusNdwihno: no, they are not fixed
12:02:15LinusNcan you help me test?
12:06:11ken0good morning!
12:06:25ken0test what?
12:06:51 Nick ken0 is now known as [keno] (marklar2@
12:07:02dwihnoLinusN: Surething
12:09:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:11:16 Part Zagor
12:11:38 Join Zagor_ [242] (
12:12:06LinusNyo Zagor_!
12:12:12LinusNi have found the problem
12:12:14dwihnoLinusN: Should I download bleeding edge and test?
12:12:41 Nick kargatron is now known as karg|away (
12:12:52LinusNdwihno: no need...yet...
12:14:11dwihnoLinusN: then I'll fetch some lunch.
12:14:16 Nick dwihno is now known as dwihno|lunch0r (dwihno@Bald067.Baldakinen.Umea.SE)
12:14:25LinusNkebab med starka såsen på? :-)
12:31:33 Nick Triple-X is now known as Triple-z (~Mp3@
12:31:58Triple-z can u tell me if its good parts? before i buy it..
12:34:19 Quit bobTHC ("Trillian (")
12:35:45LinusNTriple-z: no comments on that, looks good to me, but I haven't studied the parts more closely though
12:39:02 Nick dwihno|lunch0r is now known as dwihno (dwihno@Bald067.Baldakinen.Umea.SE)
12:39:10dwihnoLinus: You got a great sense of humour :)
12:40:19dwihnohot choco
12:40:21dwihnoI love it
12:40:23dwihnoI'm addicted
12:40:26dwihnoAddicted to choco
12:40:51LinusNpretty harmless addiction...
12:41:05dwihnoAnd Caramell
12:42:11dwihnoLinus Nielsen Feltzing produces 883 google results
12:42:14dwihnoYou're pretty famous
12:42:34dwihnoBill Gates - 1,270,000 results
12:42:42LinusNi'm closing in
12:42:47dwihnoYa :D
12:43:37dwihno5 aug 2000 Linus Nielsen becomes Nielsen Feltzing
12:44:27dwihnoThe Stenberg brothers look like twins
12:45:43LinusNyou really think so?
12:46:09dwihnoNot really twins, but almost
12:52:33 Join webmind [0] (
12:52:52webmindanyone awake concearning a disection question ?
12:53:25webmindthe disesction page doesnt seem to cover hd removal ?
12:53:43LinusNyou have removed tha back plate?
12:53:53webmindi can
12:53:55LinusNwith the rubber corners
12:54:09LinusNso you see the hd
12:54:20webmindwell has a small metal plate on it..
12:54:22webmindbut i can see it
12:54:38LinusNit is attached only by the connector
12:55:02LinusNso you can lift it in the other end and pull it out of the connector
12:55:10webmindah k
12:55:13LinusNhold the unit upside down
12:55:15webmindwasnt sure bout that
12:55:27LinusNand the loose end will reveal itself
12:56:08webminddoesnt seem to want to give in though..
12:56:24LinusNit may take some force to pull out
12:56:34LinusNwiggle it sideways a little
12:58:00webminddone, cewl
12:58:14webmindbtw u think compactflash with ide converter will work in it ?
12:58:28dwihnosounds reasonable
12:58:51LinusNi think it could work
12:58:55dwihnobut then I'm no hardware guy, I have this clumsyness which causes a lot of hardware trashings ;)
12:59:21dwihnoI leave the hardware part to the hardware guys
12:59:22LinusNwebmind: remember, Do NOT forget to put back the plastic/rubber cover
12:59:31webmindwhy ?
12:59:35webmindit works without
12:59:52LinusNbetween the hard drive and the curquit boards
13:00:50webmindthaty one
13:00:52Hadakayo, I'm in sweden :)
13:01:19LinusNin Kiruna?
13:01:25webminddoesnt look like plastic or rubber
13:01:43webmindlooks like teflon, prolly some polyfibre sth
13:02:00LinusNHadaka: too far to visit me then
13:02:11LinusNwebmind: player?
13:03:06HadakaI'll be visiting linköping as well
13:03:11LinusNthe recorders have rubber
13:03:35LinusNlinköping is even farther away from stockholm, isn't it?
13:03:36webmindah k
13:04:02LinusNmy player has plastic like yours
13:04:56webmindstrange look for plastic
13:05:45Hadakaoh, I'll be going through stockholm on sunday
13:05:59Hadakabut probably just heading almost directly to the boat
13:06:01LinusNmaybe we can meet then
13:06:07dwihnoWhoa, IRL meeting :D
13:06:38Hadakahave to be at work on monday morning so my schedule is painful
13:18:54 Nick Zagor_ is now known as Zagor (
13:19:00ZagorLinusN: what have you found?
13:19:35LinusNit's probably the problem that has been annoying us for a long time
13:20:21LinusNif the spinup time is longer than the spindown timer, the ata thread will spin down before the drive has spun up
13:21:12LinusNyou must make sure that the ata thread does not try to spin down when the spinup is taking place
13:21:22ZagorLinusN: yes, me and bagder just discussed that during lunch. he will try a longer spindown timer.
13:21:46LinusNi inserted a sleep(3*HZ) in the spinup and managed to reproduce the error
13:21:49 Quit Jet8810 ("Client Exiting")
13:21:54 Join Jet8810 [0] (
13:21:55Zagorok, good
13:22:02Zagori'll fix
13:22:17langhaarrockerMy mind is a bit out of sync: Have the problems with playback of bitrates >256kBit been solved?
13:22:30LinusNlanghaarrocker: yes and no
13:22:57LinusNwe have solved it, but at the moment we are experimenting with new buffering code, so you will see a lot of skips
13:23:18LinusNpartly because of an ATA driver bug
13:23:25LinusNan old one
13:24:22langhaarrockerHow did you initially solve the problem?
13:24:52LinusNi removeed unnecessary lcd updates
13:28:16 Join Phil [0] (
13:28:22LinusNyp Phil!
13:28:35Philstrange net.
13:29:04webmindhmm, the front print of the jukebox player is just for the batteries right ?
13:29:47webmindthe one with the usb connector ?
13:30:04webmindjukebox player
13:30:20webmindthe small print around the usb connector
13:30:31LinusNnow i get it
13:30:39LinusNthe circuit board?
13:30:54webmindi wonder if i could recplace it to make the hd more exchangeable
13:31:31LinusNit's only for the batteries, and for screwing those small screws into
13:31:49webmindhm k
13:32:30webmindwell if i could make it a tad smaller.. would easier to replace the hd, or maybe compactflash card
13:32:50LinusNtry it, and report back :-)
13:33:07webmindok :)
13:33:23 Quit langhaarrocker (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
13:34:03 Nick Phil is now known as langhaarrocker (
13:39:07 Join webmind_ [0] (
13:39:19webmind_damn surfnet
13:39:46 Quit webmind (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
13:42:14webmind_LinusN, those 2 battery poles on that prin, they're connected? (no multimeter here)
13:42:31HadakaLinusN: ha!
13:42:43HadakaLinusN: so that would be the problem happening with me as well?
13:42:58ZagorHadaka: probably, yes
13:43:03 Join greececdmailing [0] (~greececdm@
13:43:09greececdmailinghey people..
13:43:15Hadakaok so I can increase the spindown time to 10s and it should fix it?
13:43:16greececdmailingcan i ask something?
13:43:25 Nick webmind_ is now known as webmind (
13:43:46ZagorHadaka: I have a fix coming up in a minute
13:43:49greececdmailingis Archos multimedia jukebox 20 worth the money?
13:43:58ZagorHadaka: no, it's not the user-settable timeout
13:44:21HadakaZagor: ok so what's the spindown setting for the harddrive I have here? :)
13:44:32langhaarrockergreececdmailing: you can't have rockbox on it -> no :)
13:44:58Zagorwebmind: i believe the batteries are connected on the MP3FRONT board, not the other one
13:45:03greececdmailingbut it plays DIVX
13:45:06Zagorwebmind: at least for recorder
13:45:22greececdmailingwhy not? Whats wrong with it.... Tell please so i dont do a mistake an buy it
13:45:30webmindZagor, thnx.. think its the case here..
13:45:31ZagorHadaka: that's for how long to spin disk after last user action.
13:45:50Jet8810greece, i think its a great buy, but rockbox doesnt work on it
13:45:57ZagorHadaka: if no user interaction, we spin down much faster
13:45:58Jet8810so you will have to do with archos firmware
13:46:28Zagorgreececdmailing: from what I've heard, it can't actually play divx.
13:46:48webmindpracticly a useless print it seems..
13:46:49Zagornot the divx you can grab off the net, anyway.
13:46:59Jet8810then why havent they been sued?
13:47:01HadakaZagor: ah! then I can increase the spindown time in any case, because it bothered me before already that it spun down too fast while I'm playing with it
13:47:02greececdmailingyou have to convert it to 30 frps
13:47:05Hadakabut um
13:47:16Jet8810well that kind of sucks
13:47:18Jet8810but sensible
13:47:23greececdmailingSo whats the best thing to buy from archos?
13:47:35greececdmailingJUKEBOX REcorder 20 or FM REcorder 20?
13:47:41Hadakaare the bleeding edge builds generated all the time? here in sweden, I can't compile rockbox
13:47:43Jet8810on Pocket Pcs, they can only play at 30fps anyway...doubt that has more proccessing power
13:47:50Jet8810Greece, depends on your needs
13:48:01greececdmailingwhat do you mean jet?
13:48:03Jet8810but FM Recorder has a radio, but cannnot use the rockbox firmware
13:48:04Bagdergreececdmailing: I recommend the plain recorder, as Rockbox runs on it, but thats me
13:48:06webmindgreececdmailing, u wanted to play divx on the multimedia ?
13:48:11ZagorHadaka: yes, every 20 minutes
13:48:17greececdmailingwhat more does rockbox has to offer?
13:48:23webmindopensource :)
13:48:27greececdmailingwebmind YES!
13:48:35Jet8810opensource so your requests like queuing playlists get noticed hehe
13:48:37greececdmailingand the video recording with the camera was a good idea
13:48:58Bagdergo read
13:48:59greececdmailingbadger i saw that..
13:49:01webmindgreececdmailing, i think its possible.. can ask a friend if u want to be sure.. but afaik u need to resize the divx to the resolution of the lcd screen
13:49:12greececdmailingi know webmind..
13:49:15greececdmailingBut i wana know
13:49:23greececdmailingIf the menu for Mp3 is sloww..
13:49:28greececdmailingLike i read all over the place..
13:49:33greececdmailingthat it is sloww..
13:49:39Zagor"Your Archos Jukebox Multimedia™ is designed to play MPEG4 Simple profile files. Unless you encode your own video files, you will have to convert your files to the format supported by the Jukebox Multimedia™."
13:49:52webmindthe menu of the player is slower then the ipod yes.. atleast from the arcohs firmware..
13:49:57Bagdergreececdmailing: what model is slow you ask?
13:50:03webmindbut.. i think the archos is more felexible
13:50:07HadakaZagor: ookay good, then I can put a new firmware on this box and test it later today
13:50:13ZagorHadaka: yes
13:50:22greececdmailingwhat box? the multimedia?
13:50:34Hadakabut that means I will lose my keylock modification :(
13:50:37CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
13:50:37*Bagder never tried a multimedia
13:50:46greececdmailingwho has tried a multimedia?
13:50:48webmindgreececdmailing, the mp3 player
13:50:58webmindgreececdmailing, friend of mine has it.. me not personal
13:51:07greececdmailingwebmind do you have icq?
13:51:25greececdmailingcan u ask him if he can go threw loads of mp3s with no problem
13:51:38greececdmailingok lets leave multimedia as nobody here has it.
13:51:40greececdmailingyes het?
13:51:41Jet8810I have put 12 gigs on there with no problem
13:51:43greececdmailingi ment
13:51:44webmindgreececdmailing, yes
13:51:44Jet8810but that is the recorder
13:51:55Jet8810i dont see why the multimedia would be different
13:51:56BagderZagor: you working on a fix for this spinup thing or?
13:52:03Jet8810anywhoo, why dont you search for a review in google?
13:52:08webmindgreececdmailing, amount of mp3s isnt the problem
13:52:14ZagorBagder: yes
13:52:23Bagderok, nice
13:52:25greececdmailingI saw LOADA OF reviews
13:52:31webmindgreececdmailing, i'd say.. go for the multimedia and dont forget to disect it :)
13:52:34greececdmailingEveryone says better get an ipod
13:52:40Jet8810so they should answer these questions :)
13:52:41greececdmailingdisect it?
13:52:44webmindgreececdmailing, depends on what u want
13:53:12webmindipod is nice for mp3's nice and fast interface yes.. but the harddisk (pcmcia) is harder to find on bigger size
13:53:16greececdmailingI want the multimedia coz of the divx and camera..but i also want it for the mp3..But i dont want a SLOWW User interface on it
13:53:23webmind(there's one next to me now btw)
13:53:40webmindgreececdmailing, i dont think the multimedia had a slow interface
13:53:40greececdmailingWhats better JUKEBOX RECORDER 20 OR THE FM 20?
13:53:51webmindatleast it was faster then the archos player
13:54:00Hadakaif you want a good MP3 player, just pick recorder 20
13:54:08Bagdergreececdmailing: better for what? radio? the FM, user interface? the rec 20 with rockbox
13:54:08webmindthink so yes
13:54:11Hadakaif you absolutely _need_ FM, then get that
13:54:20Hadakabut you won't be able to run rockbox
13:54:38greececdmailingwill rockbox make firmware for Multimedia or FM?
13:54:40webmindwhich would be a pre
13:55:04Hadakagreececdmailing: that's a FAQ
13:55:19Hadakagreececdmailing: and I guess the answer is no
13:55:22greececdmailingwhy not?
13:55:32Zagorbecause Archos won't tell us how they work
13:55:35Hadakadifferent processor
13:55:45greececdmailingi hope they die
13:56:01Hadakaanyway, I'm off
13:56:02greececdmailingis rockbox interface faster than archos?
13:56:14Bagderwell, they didn't tell us how the player or recorder work either ;-)
13:56:37Bagdergreececdmailing: rockbox is superior in almost every aspect, including speed
13:56:49greececdmailingso when u press nexr
13:56:53dwihnoHow solid is the recording/disk writing?
13:56:59greececdmailingnext after how long the other song starts?
13:57:04LinusNdwihno: pretty solid
13:57:12Bagdergreececdmailing: depends on your disk
13:57:18greececdmailingwhat do u mean?
13:57:21LinusNbut the ATA poweroff thing is a bit shaky still
13:57:25dwihnoLinusN: what is left before the release of 1.5?
13:57:35LinusNdwihno: a lot
13:57:45dwihnoLinusN: bingo-lot? ;)
13:57:47Bagdergreececdmailing: it all depends on the particular conditions when you do that
13:57:48ZagorBagder: can you test ?
13:57:51dwihnohahaaha *roflmao*
13:57:54BagderZagor: hang on
13:58:04greececdmailingtell me dude more than 1 sec?
13:58:16greececdmailingtell me on what i depends?
13:58:20greececdmailingon how full is my disk?
13:58:34Zagorit depends how fast your disk can spin up
13:58:34Bagdergreececdmailing: if the disk need to spin up to get more data, then it'll take time
13:58:47Zagorif the file is already in memory, it takes 0 time
13:58:49greececdmailingwhats the longest it can take?
13:58:59greececdmailinglets say i open a dir called pop..
13:59:01Zagor...depends in your disk
13:59:09Zagortakes about 2.5s for me
13:59:10greececdmailingand i hear a song and press next.. i will take 0 right?
13:59:21greececdmailingZagor so longest is 2.5s?
13:59:22dwihnoLinusN: I'm ready for your "fix-weird-buffer-emptyness-stuff" CVS commit ;D
13:59:23Zagorno, because you only have the first song in memory
13:59:34greececdmailingso how long 1 sec?
13:59:43Bagderif you hear the end of a song and press next it might be ~0
14:00:01greececdmailingso..longest wai will be what?
14:00:03LinusNdwihno: Zagor has the ball
14:00:19Zagorgreececdmailing: it's not difficult, really: if you have the data buffered in RAM already, it takes 0 time.
14:00:21dwihnoLinusN: mkay. Långa bollar på Bagder ? :)
14:00:22LinusNgreececdmailing: 5-6 secs
14:00:28greececdmailing6 secS!!
14:00:32greececdmailingthats longg..
14:00:33Zagorif you need to read it from disk, it can take up to 5 seconds if you have slow disk
14:00:36LinusNit all depends on your hard drive
14:00:51greececdmailingwell doesnt Archos recorder have a standar disk?
14:00:55greececdmailingfrom archos?
14:01:00LinusNyes, and they are slow
14:01:10webmindunless u want to port rockbox to it yourself
14:01:12Bagderit isn't that "standard" either
14:01:12greececdmailingso.. u all have the same right?
14:01:13*dwihno has got a non-standard unit, equipped with an IBM disk
14:01:24Bagderpeople got all sorts of disks
14:01:25Zagorgreececdmailing: no, these are *standard* disks. not made by archos.
14:01:34webminddamn router died
14:01:46greececdmailingok so i need to have a faster disk to get better speeds..
14:01:51greececdmailingso lets say a tweak recorder
14:01:55*webmind has a player 20, which he hopes to mod to compactflash compatible :)
14:02:18webmindfasterdisk == less battery time
14:02:23BagderZagor: first read looks fine
14:02:30greececdmailingDAMN IT.
14:02:31dwihnowebmind: ah, compactflash = lotsa time :D
14:02:34Zagorgreececdmailing: all disk-based mp3 players have this "problem"
14:02:37dwihnowebmind: I didn't think of that
14:02:51Zagorit's a physical limitation
14:02:55greececdmailing@all whats the best solution for me a new buyer of an archos?
14:03:05webminddwihno, uhuh :))
14:03:11Zagorgreececdmailing: if you just want a good mp3 player, go for the Recorder20.
14:03:14webminddwihno, and nice small cards of 128mb :)
14:03:32dwihnowebmind: yeah, but opening the case to swap the flashes will be a pain in the nose
14:03:33Zagorgreececdmailing: if you want a small and simple hd-based player, go for the ipid
14:03:39webmindthink i'll put 1800ma batteries in it aswell
14:03:48webmindcurrent ones are starting to where ouyt
14:03:50greececdmailingZagor i need at least 20GB
14:03:51dwihnowebmind: there's 2000mAh batteries too!
14:03:56BagderZagor: what's changed in the test version?
14:04:14webminddwihno, btw, whats the best way to rechard nicad batteries ?
14:04:15Bagdergreececdmailing: then archos is one of your better choices since replacing the disk is easy
14:04:27webmindwait till they're empty or recharge as alive as possible >?
14:04:36ZagorBagder: i moved sleeping=false down a bit, so the sleep thread never kicks in
14:04:59Zagorgreececdmailing: also, on the Recorder20 you have replacable batteries. you don't have that on the Recorder FM
14:05:00dwihnowebmind: I know nothing about batteries. They are good for portable hardware gadgets, but that's all I know :) Lots of mAh is good too ;D
14:05:25BagderZagor: it seems as if the double-red led doesn't appear now
14:05:26greececdmailingWhats the battery life of
14:05:32greececdmailing6 hours?
14:05:43webminddwihno, hm k
14:05:58greececdmailingwith 1800mah?
14:05:59webmindplayer lasts 8 hours
14:06:08webmindwith 1600mah
14:06:16ZagorBagder: excellent. i'll commit this so more people can test.
14:06:54greececdmailingSo ... rockbox has a faster interface than archos firmware?
14:07:00Bagdermaybe Linus' <3500ms check can be removed soon as well
14:07:01webmindanyone here do know sth about battery recharing ?
14:07:01Zagorgreececdmailing: yes
14:07:11ZagorBagder: yes
14:07:19Zagorwebmind: a little
14:07:38greececdmailingZagor... What about fm? Dont it have rockbox?
14:07:43greececdmailingi mean cant i put rockbox?
14:07:59Zagornot yet. maybe later.
14:08:00webmindZagor, differce between way of charing of lithium and nicad batteries
14:08:13Zagorwebmind: sorry, don't know
14:08:41greececdmailingDoes recorder20 have a remote?
14:08:54Zagoronly a wired remote
14:09:02greececdmailingthats what i mean
14:09:04greececdmailingis it with it?
14:09:14***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:09:15Zagorno, you get it separately in a "travel kit"
14:09:36greececdmailingcan i put another make of a headphones with remote?
14:09:57greececdmailingthaknx for your help
14:10:01greececdmailingSomething else.
14:10:07greececdmailingHas anyone used a FM 20
14:10:15 Quit Triple-z (No route to host)
14:10:21Zagornoone here, i think
14:10:33Zagorpeople on the archos yahoo list say the fm reception isn't so good
14:10:35webmindonly worked with player, multimedia and ipod
14:10:47webmindand playing around with player
14:11:30greececdmailingwebmind so you worked with multimedia or not?
14:12:20webmindgreececdmailing, just played around with it for a wile.. as in looking how it handled...
14:12:25webmindwhile ago though
14:12:27greececdmailingso tell me..
14:12:31greececdmailinghow did u see it work?
14:13:05*Bagder is skipfree... AAAAAH ;-)
14:13:09webmindworked fine...
14:13:16webmindfaster then my player
14:13:16 Join TotMacher [0] (
14:13:20greececdmailingdefine fine mate
14:13:30greececdmailingwhat do u mean faster than your player? u mean recorder 20?
14:13:35Zagordwihno: I see your scroll bug now
14:13:36webmindgreececdmailing, player 20
14:13:41webminddont have a recorder
14:13:50greececdmailingso it changed songs faster?
14:13:53greececdmailinghow was the interface?
14:13:58webmindthink its bit slower then the ipod.. but it can do more
14:14:16webmindchanging songs istn a problem on the player either
14:14:25greececdmailinga bit slower? or ... its soo slow..
14:14:28webmindi'm talking about the interface of for exmaple selecting songs
14:14:40dwihnoZagor: Pretty fishy, huh?
14:14:47webmindcompared to the ipod the player is quite slow.. multimedia isnt
14:14:48Zagordwihno: yeah
14:14:49dwihnoZagor: I blame it on the boogie!
14:18:13 Part langhaarrocker
14:19:15 Quit Moof ("Client Exiting")
14:22:30Zagornew BE build is up. grab it and break it!
14:25:10webmindbtw, is rockbox faster then the std firmware ?
14:25:28Bagdertry loading a playlist ;-)
14:25:58Bagder" Playlist load speed, songs/sec"
14:26:04ZagorPlaylist load speed, songs/sec. rockbox: 2000 - 3500 archos:15 - 20
14:26:38Bagderonly 100 times faster in that aspect ;-)
14:27:04karg|awayit's amazing they ever thought their method was acceptable. i mean, c'mon
14:27:13 Nick karg|away is now known as kargatron (
14:27:24BagderI agree
14:28:08 Quit greececdmailing (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
14:28:48webminduhm.. my player cant read text files...
14:28:52LinusNthey can display remaining time of a playlist, we can't :-)
14:29:06LinusNi wonder if they do?
14:29:12BagderI don't think so
14:29:41Zagori don't think they can. i think they only look up the file in the dir, not actually load any of it.
14:30:30webmindbtw, my recorder does have customable backlight timeout...
14:30:33webmindmy player
14:30:36Bagderactually, the person who came up with their playlist loader code probable should get smacked ;-)
14:31:34Bagderwebmind: you mean in the archos fw?
14:32:36Bagdernow, who volounteers to checkout the recorder version? ;-)
14:33:05 Quit johnny (":-)")
14:33:09*Zagor hides
14:33:25BagderI wouldn't be able to find it if I tried anyway
14:33:58kargatronneed tests of BE recorder? is it dangerous? :)
14:34:17Bagderdon't be a chicken, just get it! B-P
14:34:18*webmind curses on archos... still old firmware on their site
14:34:48kargatronjust wondering why Zagor is hiding... :)
14:35:01Bagderfor my volounteering q
14:35:03webmindzagor has a recorder
14:35:22Zagorkargatron: I don't want to test if the Archos firmware has a configurable backlight timeout
14:36:12kargatronohh, sorry, thought this was a *real* issue... :)
14:40:52 Join alkorr [0] (
14:40:59Bagderhey alkorr
14:41:14alkorrhi everybody !
14:41:19Zagorhey, alkorr!
14:41:28alkorrwhat is the last stable version of rockbox ?
14:41:37Zagorthe least stable, you mean? ;)
14:41:44alkorrarf :)
14:41:50Zagor1.4 is the last official release
14:42:01alkorri want the last one without recording indeed
14:42:14alkorrokay you are working on 1.5 ?
14:42:23Zagoryes we are
14:42:48Zagoractually we don't even keep such old daily builds...
14:42:55kargatronthink 12/1 is stable? might be
14:42:58kargatronstill up
14:43:07alkorris its source code is present in the website ?
14:43:21Zagorall of them are stable, just the recent days have had some skipping problems due to the new dynamic watermark code
14:43:25LinusNkargatron: i think lates BE may be the most stable
14:43:27Zagoralkorr: not for old versions
14:43:31kargatronthat's what i meant
14:43:39alkorrnot for 1.4 ?
14:43:47Zagoralkorr: yes, for 1.4 but not old daily builds
14:44:06Bagderthey can all be downloaded from cvs of course
14:44:22kargatronfwiw, i went for a walk with 1206 when |away, and got one hang, at the end of a 11 min cut - just stopped, no red light. otherwise ok
14:44:31Zagorkargatron: version?
14:44:34kargatronhaven't tried BE yet
14:44:37Zagoroh, 1206 ok
14:44:40kargatron1206 daily
14:44:51alkorryou don't setup the LCD recorder, do you ?
14:44:59kargatronpoweroff=on, 0 anti-skip
14:45:08alkorryou rely on archos firmware to do so ?
14:46:11Zagoralkorr: yes
14:47:01alkorroh bad, i wnat to get rid of Archos firmware... is there anything else than LCD setup ?
14:48:02Zagorsince we have never ran without it, there's probably all kinds of setup stuff we don't do
14:48:18alkorryeah sure
14:48:38 Quit Bagder ("")
14:48:38kargatronhow would you "get rid of" archos firmware on the ROM?
14:48:42Zagorwhat are you planning to do? burn it into flash?
14:48:49alkorrsomething like it
14:49:05Zagorwhoa. heavy stuff!
14:49:08alkorrSST39 is a reprogrammable FLASH
14:49:35alkorrbut we mustn't mess with it :/
14:50:57LinusNkargatron: get the latest bleeding edge
14:51:25dwihnoFa la la?
14:52:51alkorrwhat I think : in the FLASH a very small firmware which looks for a /./rockbox/update.bin when existing to upgrade the second large firmware in the FLASH. At the end, the small firmware runs the second. That way, even the update messes, you can still be able to upgrade the next time with a debugged update.bin. By the way the large formware would not be ever scrambled.
14:54:10alkorra large program indeed :/ because it means the small firmware must work the first time !/
14:54:29Zagoralkorr: hehe, yes. prepare to resolder your flash chips :-)
14:57:08kargatronLinusN, 13:20?
14:57:21kargatrongrabbed that earlier, just want to make sure latest
14:57:50Zagorkargatron: yup, that's the one
15:00:34 Join Triple-z [0] (
15:04:00 Join lither [0] (
15:04:39kargatronthe WPS disappearing when USB is unplugged (when jb is paused, for example) - that a posted bug?
15:04:49Zagoryou still get that?
15:05:00kargatronit dumps to folder menu, but when you hit ON to toggle, it's clear screen
15:05:06kargatronjust got it, yes, still there
15:05:16Zagorah. ok ON is not supposed to work after USB.
15:05:36LinusNkargatron: the mpeg thread is still confused if you insert USB while playing
15:05:59LinusNor paused
15:06:12kargatronZagor you mean you want to disallow USB use during a pause, or rather disallow unpausing after USB?
15:06:27kargatroni mean, no biggie, really, not catastrophic, you can still play
15:06:44webmindbtw anyone looked into the possibilty of mpeg audio playing ?
15:07:00Zagorno, I mean after USB you are essentially in the same mode as after pressing OFF during playback.
15:07:14LinusNwebmind: we play mpeg audio, called MP3 files
15:07:18Zagorwebmind: huh? from a mpeg video file you mean?
15:07:23webmindZagor, yes
15:07:47webmindas far as i understand mpeg it shouldnt be that big of a problem ?
15:07:52Zagorkargatron: after you press OFF, you can't go back to wps with ON. it should be the same after usb
15:08:14kargatronah, ok
15:08:28LinusNwebmind: extracting the audio from the mpeg file is the problem
15:08:44webmindis it ?
15:08:56LinusNand the audio in an mpeg stream, is it really mp3?
15:08:57webmindwhy ?
15:09:07webmindmpeg1 i think
15:09:08LinusNwebmind: i didn't say it was hard
15:10:00LinusNwebmind: as long as the MAS can play the audio...
15:10:37webmindafaik mas support all mpeg audio right?
15:10:48webmindawell i'll check tuesday or sth.
15:10:58webmindgot mas docs on my work
15:11:58webmind"unless someone has them at hand :)"
15:12:10Zagorwebmind: on the web page
15:12:21webmindno pdf viewer here
15:18:24LinusNit can play mpeg 1 and 2, layer 2 and 3
15:18:58LinusNlayer 2 is broken at the moment in rockbox, to be fixed
15:19:08*webmind kicks himself... i was suprised it gave an hd error.. doesnt have one atm...
15:19:33webmindLinusN, tried just stuffing the mpeg video file to the mass chip ?
15:20:30LinusNwebmind: of course not
15:21:04LinusNthe mas doesn't want any foreign data, oir it will lose sync
15:21:18webmindbut u need to know how to get the audio from a mpeg video file ?
15:21:20LinusNthat's why gapless playback is tricky
15:21:28webmindah k
15:21:38LinusNwebmind: that's why i said that the problem was extracting the audio
15:22:35webmindi supose u didnt check mpeg docs ?
15:23:01kargatronLinusN, whoops, just got a red light hang. no jolts
15:23:04LinusNfor the mpeg video file format?
15:23:18kargatronwas just after an ON wps file activation
15:23:20LinusNi haven't, no
15:23:35LinusNkargatron: talk to Zagor
15:23:59LinusNwebmind: remember, i have never attempted to extract audio from a video file
15:24:15kargatronok, Zagor, whoops... :)
15:24:18LinusNi haven't had the need to
15:24:19webmindLinusN, ok.
15:24:29webmindLinusN, as i here there libaries who can do it
15:24:36Zagorkargatron: what is an "ON file activation"???
15:24:47LinusNwebmind: that's good
15:25:00kargatronsorry, playing, press ON, play another .wps file to change display
15:25:10kargatronjust what i did before the read hang, is all
15:25:15LinusNkargatron: can you repeat it?
15:25:26kargatroni'll try.
15:25:33webminda52dec == ansi c lib, can rip audio from mpeg1 and 2
15:27:00kargatronalso getting blank %ig sometimes, for tracks that show genre in winamp (e.g. 'Electronic'). probably a table-lookup mismatch?
15:27:29kargatron[doesn't bother me, since i fall back on genre-folder org anyway] but thought i'd mention it
15:28:23Zagorkargatron: can you upload a failing file somewhere?
15:28:36kargatron.wps change didn't affect last disk read. :-/ probably a timing issue
15:28:43kargatronok will do
15:33:51Zagorthose disk hangs are really annoying
15:34:58LinusNZagor: i think it's when accessing the disk in the 2 second interval between sleep and poweroff
15:35:32 Quit lither (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:36:31LinusNZagor: maybe because "sleeping" is still set, and the last_sleep time passes before the drive has spun up
15:38:08kargatronZagor,"> Magic & Pita - Thaw Fridge.mp3
15:38:19kargatron""> Magic & Pita - Thaw Fridge.mp3"
15:38:25kargatronsorry for the spaces
15:38:57ZagorLinusN: and..? if it's still sleeping, it won't call sleep again.
15:39:06Zagorthat was the fix I just did
15:40:09Zagorsorry if I sound annoyed. I'm just frustrated :-)
15:40:30LinusNZagor: it will not re-sleep, it will power off
15:42:37Zagorwhoa! you're right.
15:44:13Zagorkargatron: can you easily repeat this? i.e. can you test my fix?
15:44:51Zagorthe disk hang, not the genre bug
15:48:10 Join greececdmailing [0] (
15:48:10 Quit greececdmailing (Client Quit)
15:49:01 Join greececdmailing [0] (
15:49:04*Zagor begs
15:49:08greececdmailingheey people
15:49:16Zagorhey, welcome back :-)
15:49:21greececdmailingdo you know any forum for Archos products?
15:49:25greececdmailinghey zagor
15:49:36webmindgreececdmailing, this place?
15:49:53greececdmailingyeah i know that one linus..thankx anyway - archosjukebox6000
15:50:15greececdmailingIm still trying to find out stuff about archos multimedia
15:50:57Zagorgreececdmailing: there's a yahoo forum about the multimedia too
15:51:03greececdmailingtell me it
15:51:25kargatronsearch from LinusN's line above
15:51:44kargatronZagor, sorry
15:51:46kargatronwas away
15:52:21kargatroni couldn't repeat the hang, so not sure how to test...
15:52:51kargatronthe track you wanted, that was the ig bug, right?
15:53:49greececdmailingwhats the group about multi?
15:53:49Zagorcould you post a bug about it, and rename the file "badgenretag.mp3" or something so it's easy to remember what it is about. (I can be pretty confused sometimes...)
15:53:52webmindgreececdmailing, what is it u want to know ?
15:54:25greececdmailingwebmind.. I WANT to know abou the camera that u can put on it.I want to know how many fps it can record
15:54:26kargatronplus, my last hang was from 13:20 BE, there's a later fix? i never've dealth with CVS compiles
15:55:01Zagorkargatron: no that was the lastest cvs compile. the new is a test build I uploaded to
15:55:29webmindgreececdmailing, mail archos? :)
15:55:46webmindi tried calling that friend btw.. but someone else has his nr now
15:56:02greececdmailingfuck..thats unlucky
15:58:58Zagorhas anyone here tested xoscope? it uses the sound card input as an oscilloscope.
16:00:53LinusNZagor: sounds pretty unusable to me
16:00:54webmindZagor, hm, sounds interesting.. but wouldnt it be very easy to blow up your soundcard then ?
16:02:41Zagorbeats me
16:02:58ZagorLinusN: why is that? 48 kHz not usable enough for you?
16:03:53LinusNwell, maybe...
16:04:44ZagorI was thinking about buying a simple oscope, and stumbled on it.
16:09:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:11:26greececdmailingsee ya later..
16:11:29greececdmailingthankx for the group
16:11:33greececdmailingit seems really helpful
16:11:36greececdmailingbye dues
16:11:39greececdmailingdudes i ment
16:11:39 Quit greececdmailing ()
16:11:50Zagorkargatron: getting anything?
16:12:01*Zagor screams into the void
16:13:38kargatronas i said, reproducing the hang failed before, so testing is not exactly a science
16:15:15Zagori know :) i'm just being impatient
16:16:10 Join Bagder [241] (
16:16:19dwihnoI am impatient
16:16:21dwihnoMy scroll bug! :(
16:16:26dwihnoSkipping sound!
16:16:28dwihno*sob sob*
16:16:40Bagdercan you believe there is a binutils version
16:16:54Bagderits more like a phone number ;-)
16:17:45Zagori'm committing this to cvs. seems to do no harm anyway.
16:20:29dwihnoYay for Z!
16:20:40*dwihno loves commits! :D
16:20:43dwihnoAnd hot choco
16:20:45dwihnoAnd Caramell
16:20:52dwihnobut then, who doesn't?
16:21:05*Bagder points on logbot ;-)
16:21:27#>>"doesn't like commits?" by Zagor (
16:21:37dwihnoHe must be a weird fella''
16:21:38Bagderno, he never gets to see them
16:21:42Zagorcrap, i'm in trouble :)
16:22:23dwihnoZagor: you smuggled the MAS specs out of archos top secret labs? :)
16:22:26Zagorspam to isn't that nice...
16:22:31Zagordwihno: haha
16:22:38*Zagor the super spy
16:23:39Zagorkargatron: the bad genre was totally empty, right. not just wrong genre?
16:23:43LinusNZagor: how about a more explicit FSM in ata_thread?
16:24:12dwihnoZagor: Spam should be outlawed!
16:24:16ZagorLinusN: fsm?
16:24:40LinusNfinite state machine
16:24:50LinusNyou know, enum...switch()
16:25:10LinusNlike the usb thread
16:25:54Zagorthe usb thread has a state machine? looks to me like it's just processing requests
16:26:18Zagorthe ata states are calculated @4Hz, so the complexity would still be there.
16:26:56Zagoror am I missing something?
16:27:43Zagoryeah, I am. now I understand what you mean. an enum instead of three boolans. ok, slap me. :-)
16:28:48*Bagder slaps Zagor
16:30:24*dwihno slaps Zagor too (just because of the group pressure)
16:30:57*Zagor feels refreshed
16:31:29Zagori'm not sure I should change that right now, though...
16:32:57dwihnoZagor: Just do a CVS commit :D
16:33:02dwihnoIt will make you feel much better
16:33:05Zagori've added enough bugs for a while
16:33:28dwihnoI bet you was the one who added the scroll glitch :)
16:33:35dwihnobut then, you're the code police
16:33:41dwihnoyou wouldn't allow that
16:33:57ZagorBagder: your spinup times are ok now, right?
16:34:03dwihnomaybe the archos fellows caught you in the act while stealing the MAS specs
16:34:11dwihnoSO they made you join the dark side of the force!
16:34:12BagderZagor: yes, they seem ok
16:34:31dwihnoSo now you're adding bugs so people will return to the archos firmware
16:34:38dwihnoJust like lost sheep who finds their way home
16:35:41Zagordamn, my cover is blown. Tank, I need a channel.
16:36:04dwihno*rofl* :-)
16:38:35dwihnoWhat good is a phone call, mr Zagor, if you cannot speak! *mohawhawhaw*
16:41:59 Quit Bagder ("")
16:42:26kargatrononly 6 months away. love the one-way direction of time...
16:52:31kargatronmatric reloaded
16:52:45kargatronjust being abstruse, sorry
16:53:03kargatronZagor, test.ajz running for a while, no probs. but also motionless and non-interactive
16:53:35kargatronand as you know, absence of evidence isn't necessarily evidence of absence... :)
16:55:40dwihnoHey, I got a good slogan
16:55:59dwihno"Rockbox - Commit to the CVS, or ELSE!"
16:58:08dwihno"Rockbox - Hey, SOMEONE has got to fix Zagors bugs"
16:58:38Zagor"Because SOMEONE should really do SOMETHING"
16:58:54dwihnoMy game will rock :)
16:58:58dwihnoIt will rock your world!
16:59:02LinusNZagor: ...even if it's totally wrong!
16:59:14ZagorLinusN: no, that's my job :)
16:59:39LinusNRockbox - it sucks THAT much!!!
17:00:07dwihnoRockbox - Straight from stockholm, into your ears!
17:00:07ZagorRockbox - is that even legal?
17:00:21dwihnoHey, make audio mixing possible
17:00:28dwihnoand then add some subliminal messages
17:00:35dwihno"bomb microsoft hq"
17:00:41dwihno"send cash to Zagro"
17:00:46dwihnozagreb? :)
17:01:06ZagorLinusN: where is the 3500 ms limit? i'd like to test without it
17:01:46LinusNrecalculate_watermark() in mpeg.c
17:02:14LinusNZagor - finally Scandisk found an enemy
17:05:47dwihnoTime to check out for the weekend
17:05:52dwihnoAny pending CVS commits? :)
17:06:59dwihnothen commit! :D
17:07:07dwihnoI want razor sharp builds! :D
17:08:14Zagorwe could save the average spinup time to disk
17:08:20Zagorin settings, I mean
17:09:15Zagorjust for a more optimised run directly from boot
17:09:53Zagorno biggie
17:10:21dwihnonothing newer than the 2002-12-06 15:17 commit?
17:11:05Zagorhehe, no. we're lazy, it's friday...
17:12:33dwihnoIs the sound glitching fixed?
17:12:43dwihnobuffer underrun blabla
17:12:59dwihnobuffer-underrun-play-old-buffer :)
17:13:09dwihnosounds pretty funky when listening to CARAMELL
17:13:12Zagorat least I don't get it
17:13:50Zagorrockbox is using chicken watermarks now. :) lowest 14FBB for me.
17:15:06dwihnoRockbox - Chicken watermarks, for chicken Zagor ;)
17:15:15*dwihno brings Zagor some Guinness
17:15:23*dwihno gets himself some Heineken
17:16:27kargatroni just noticed - numeric volume display has disappeared.
17:16:43kargatrontoggling that option changes nothing - always graphic
17:16:54kargatrondunno how old that problem is.
17:17:04LinusNkargatron: file a reoprt
17:17:50kargatron"version: Zagor's test.ajz" :)
17:18:12dwihnoFile a B5R311 report and post 10 copies to Zagor :)
17:18:21kargatroncan someone verify before i do?
17:18:29kargatroncorroborate, i mean
17:19:25LinusNworks for me
17:20:26kargatronon 13:20 BE?
17:20:27Zagordoesn't work for me either
17:20:49Zagorkargatron: try the 15:20 BE
17:20:57Zagori probably have something odd locally here
17:21:15dwihnoI bet it is the lack of CVS commits
17:22:41kargatronargh, can only ROLO to 1205, which is fine. probably just test.ajz, huh?
17:23:07kargatronUSBing inconvenient atm, will try later, won't submit before
17:25:01Zagorwell, friday guys. see you later!
17:25:04dwihnoTime to do like the tree, and get out of here
17:25:06 Part Zagor
17:25:11dwihnoBack to the future on TV3 - don't miss it :)
17:25:24 Nick dwihno is now known as dw|gone (dwihno@Bald067.Baldakinen.Umea.SE)
17:28:11Hadakamy timing sucks
17:28:18Hadakaanyone know what zagor tried to tell me? :)
17:28:32kargatronnot offhand
17:34:28LinusNhe wanted you to try the lates BE
17:34:37 Quit kargatron ("Suckers!")
17:36:33Hadakaookay, I'll download and do that
17:38:07 Join kargatron [0] (
17:47:38Hadakaso, what's in this? dynamic watermark and spinup spindown fix?
17:48:51Hadakawm: 60810 - 3c512
17:49:01 Quit pyvasene ()
17:49:12webmindanyone here tried upgrading the mem already on the player ?
17:49:37LinusNHadaka: it should not skip at all now
17:49:42LinusNwebmind: yes
17:49:46webmindLinusN, and ?>
17:50:00webmindyes i read it
17:50:05webmindwondered about someone in here
17:50:11LinusNno, only him
17:51:05Hadakanow trying my 256kbit mp3's
17:51:24Hadaka7b0c0 is the watermark now
17:51:39LinusNHadaka: we use *very* generous watermarks atm
17:51:54LinusNHadaka: what is your anti-skip setting?
17:52:16HadakaLinusN: 0s
17:52:31LinusNwow, you have quite a slow disk, what's your spinup time?
17:52:32webmindcos i wondered if its possible without special soldering/heating equipment
17:52:49Hadaka5sec - I'm using the power off now
17:52:56Hadaka2 seconds without the power off
17:53:01LinusNwebmind: you need a pretty hot, fine-pitch soldering iron
17:53:22LinusNi have 3.6s with poweroff
17:53:27Hadakalowest is 4c512 now
17:53:33Hadakawhat's your watermark?
17:53:39LinusNpretty good margin :-)
17:53:45Hadakaif you have 256kbit mp3's
17:53:48webmindLinusN, i read he used some sort of fans ?
17:54:18LinusN668a0 with 320kbit/s
17:54:38HadakaLinusN: i think the not-spinning-down-during-spinup fix would've already solved my problems, without the dynamic watermarking even
17:54:45LinusN52080 with 256
17:54:54LinusNHadaka: yes it would have
17:55:22LinusNbut now we can fine-tune the dynamic watermarking to optimize buffer/battery usage
17:55:35Hadakaso right now I'm happy if this never manages to skip, even if it will draw a bit more power
17:56:08Hadakabut when you've done rudimentary fine-tuning, I can measure the playtime against the 12h I have before while my batteries are still good
17:57:10Hadakaanyway, good work on the stuff - I never believed dynamic watermarking could come so fast, and the anti-skip buffer setting
17:58:00Hadakabut now I'll fall idle for a while atleast
18:04:56 Quit alkorr (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
18:05:18LinusNHadaka: we will fine-tune it so that the calculated watermark is enough for playing while still
18:05:39LinusNand add the anti-skip margin when jogging
18:05:39 Quit [keno] (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
18:06:34 Join [keno] [0] (marklar2@
18:06:52HadakaLinusN: yeah, it'd be nice if it were "just" enough at 0sec
18:07:05LinusNthat's the plan
18:07:29 Nick LinusN is now known as LinusN|away (
18:07:29DBUGEnqueued KICK LinusN|away
18:09:19***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:47:59 Nick LinusN|away is now known as LinusN (
18:47:59DBUGEnqueued KICK LinusN
19:06:37 Quit TotMacher ()
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19:59:15 Quit Triple-z ("boo")
20:01:44 Join Zagor [242] (
20:08:53LinusNyo Zagor
20:09:00Zagorhowdy cowboy
20:09:16Zagorany news?
20:09:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:09:23LinusNnot really
20:09:33LinusNHadaka says it works great for him
20:18:27LinusNmaybe i can concentrate on the recording again... :-)
20:20:17Zagorhehe had a peak in the web server log yesterday :-)
20:21:50LinusNhow was your swap site?
20:21:53Zagoryou don't say? :)
20:22:13Zagorbusy. very busy. at times >30 concurrent processes.
20:22:28Zagorbut it held up nicely. ~1000 new ads in the last 24 hours!
20:22:57LinusNand is only the home page, not even the swapping site
20:24:02Zagorhits on wednesday: 37771
20:24:19Zagorhits on thursday: 99717 :-)
20:24:32Zagora smaller increase than I expected, actually.
20:25:06LinusNexpected or feared :-)
20:25:45Zagornah, performance is not a big problem
20:39:26 Join edx [0] (
20:39:31Zagorthat didn't stop some loony from suggesting I make the damn thing distributed, though...
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20:41:40ZagorHadaka: don't say that. DON'T SAY THAT!
20:42:34Hadakathe play-time counter - it survives restarts of the machine or not?
20:42:58Zagorit does
20:44:07Hadakait probably won't know if you secretly charge it with the archos firmware without booting rockbox? :)
20:44:26Hadakawell, have to remember that
20:45:09Zagorthat's adultery! you'd never do that, would you?
20:45:58HadakaI do, actually - since that's how I recharged these new batteries the first time so I want the charging to be similar
20:46:51Zagorok. you can reset the runtime counter by pressing play in the viewer
20:48:05Hadakait works now? goodie
20:50:16Zagordid it ever not work?
20:50:28Zagornobody tells me anything :-)
20:50:51Hadakano I meant that you didn't just know think that it could reset by pressing play and commit the change :)
20:51:24Zagorhaha, no
20:51:45Hadaka(can't trust you guys on these matters, too quick to implement stuff)
20:53:02Zagoryeah, we've got to stop that
20:55:20Hadakathe dynamic watermark was quite generous, the lowest the buffer ever got was around 40000
20:56:14Hadaka(with 0 s anti-skip)
20:56:52Zagoroy, that's high
21:03:23 Join graf008 [0] (
21:04:42graf008Is the Archos Studio 10 gig player able to use your project (the one selling for around $120 right now)?
21:04:51Hadakayes it is
21:05:06graf008ARe there any hardware hacks to it as well?
21:05:47Hadakawell, you can do the hardware hacks to that
21:05:57Hadakaif you are referring to the line-in thingy and such
21:07:00graf008yeah I guess. I noticed that there will never be ogg vorbis support. I thought I noticed a hack that added memory to the thing...would that be a way around that limitation?
21:07:28Hadakaonly replacing the MAS chip (or putting in a really fast and power heavy CPU) would
21:07:38Hadakaand replacing the MAS would be really no trivial enterprise
21:07:48graf008I see. Hmmm...
21:08:13graf008So, what is the purpose of the rockbox project?
21:08:25graf008Basically, what advantage does it provide?
21:08:34Hadakathat's a FAQ
21:08:36kargatronfeatures and interface improvment
21:10:24graf008thanks...trying to decide between that and an iPod
21:10:52Zagorthe ipod is smaller, and better integrated with iTunes if you have a Mac. and that's basically it.
21:11:06kargatronbetter ergonomics, surely?
21:11:19graf008yeah...and I have a Mac.
21:11:34graf008And doesn't the iPod support ogg vorbis?
21:11:37Zagorkargatron: you think so? i've seen tons of flames about the non-sensitive iPod buttons. and the menus are horrible.
21:11:37Hadakawell, rockbox is really nice in ergonomics too - and the point that you can fix them yourself to be what you want is an important one
21:11:54Zagorgraf008: no it doesn't
21:12:00kargatroni was thinking hardware, but haven't paid much attention
21:13:06kargatronnever actually played with one.
21:13:17kargatronbig cost difference, that's for sure.
21:13:56Zagorgraf008: you need to try to figure out what is important to you. rockbox will probably never have as good iTunes integration as the iPod, for instance.
21:14:28kargatronrockbox will have *some* itunes integration??? :)
21:14:45Zagorbut the Archos can record, and use 80-gig disks, and use replacable batteries and... a zillion other things
21:14:56Zagorkargatron: it could happen
21:15:03graf008Yeah..5 gig iPod (w/ firewire, though) for $240....Archos Studio w/ 10 gig - $116
21:15:11kargatronyeah, and monkeys might fly outta my butt! :)
21:15:21kargatroncan't resist quoting austin when possible
21:15:27Zagorgraf008: if you grab an Archos, I'd strongly suggest a Recorder model
21:15:35graf008Austin? That's Wayne
21:15:44Zagorthey have graphic display, while the studio models have charcell display
21:15:48kargatronwhat's the low price on the ajbr20 now?
21:15:51graf008Yeah..that's quite a but more
21:15:53kargatrongraf008, youre right, oops
21:16:19graf008hmmm..and there is no open source deelopment on the ipod ;)
21:16:29kargatronsurely it's around $250 now? for 20gig
21:16:37Zagorthe bottom line is, they are both the best. but at different things.
21:16:45graf008Then again, a Dell Axim 400Mhz PocketPC w/ 128 secure card is only $230
21:16:51graf008Zogor: Thanks...
21:24:18ZagorHadaka: if you feel like it, it could be interesting testing the new charger code. it seems to charge better than 1.4
21:45:06 Quit graf008 ("Client Exiting")
21:49:18HadakaZagor: how would I evaluate charging?
21:52:27LinusNdrain - charge - play
21:53:11kargatronand repeat N times for statistical weight :)
21:56:00LinusNwe want your results by tomorrow :-)
22:09:24***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:42:06LinusNgawd, this MAS isn't exactly easy to handle...
22:44:10 Join MrSnazz [0] (
22:44:13MrSnazzGreetings all
22:44:43MrSnazzI just won an auction on eBay for the Jukebox Recorder 20gb, with *dark gray* instead of blue trim. I was wondering if you know if there is any physical difference?
22:45:03LinusNno, i think it's only the color of the bumbers
22:45:25MrSnazzcool, thanks :) I can't wait to get it and load up rockbox :)
22:45:33LinusNgood luck with that
22:45:50MrSnazzlooks straightforward :) be seeing you
22:45:53 Part MrSnazz
22:46:30 Part kargatron
23:19:06 Nick _seb_ is now known as seb-away (
23:35:26LinusNtime to sleep, night all
23:35:57 Part LinusN
23:51:47 Join edx|notebook [0] (
23:52:07 Quit edx|notebook (Client Quit)

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