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#rockbox log for 2003-01-02

00:22:28***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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04:12:18 Nick _seb_ is now known as seb-sleep (
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04:48:25 Join ^_Pro-289 [0] (
04:56:10^_Pro-289anyone not sleeping?
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08:00:08 Nick dw|gone is now known as dwihno (dwihno@Bald067.Baldakinen.Umea.SE)
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09:39:14ricIIwhat button on the player I could use to togle 'wrap' in the fileviewer ?
09:40:41ricIII setteld for f2 on the recorder..
10:17:11 Join kargatron [0] (
10:17:49kargatronmorning (here)
10:18:34ricIIsame here, working on a wrap function for the fileviewer..
10:19:43ricIIit's working except for the last line..
10:22:42***No seen item changed, no save performed.
10:31:58kargatronrealistically, what do people use the file viewer for? I can't imagine reading anything substantive on that screen...
10:34:05ricIIthe manual? :)
10:36:39ricIInext step would be to make an editor so we can edit our wsp files...
10:37:18 Quit Tomasera ("ircII EPIC4-1.1.5 -- Are we there yet?")
10:56:48kargatronfinally got around to getting a script to create recursive playtlists for all directories with subfolders in them - satisfies the occasional request for rockbox to do it virtually. worth posting to the mailing list, you think?
10:58:48ricIImaybe there sould be a contrib/ in cvs?
10:59:22kargatrona script repository?
11:02:55ricIIbut there is already easytag..
11:03:46 Join edx`zZz [0] (
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11:09:50ricIIeasytag - viewing, editing and writing ID3 tags of MP3 and Ogg files..
11:10:14kargatronwhat's that in reference to?
11:10:34ricIIwriting playlists aswell
11:11:01kargatronwriting playlists is trivial - i was just referring to having recursive playlists for any folder you want.
11:11:37kargatronyou either do that dynamically, which rockbox doesn't, or globally all at once. no one wants to make them individually. :)
11:12:15ricIIhmm not sure if I understand it well.
11:12:56kargatronLet's say you want to shuffle play all the albums at once under Alternative/Beck
11:13:10kargatronyou can't do that with rockbox atm without an extant playlist
11:13:29kargatronthe script simply creates those recursive playlists for every folder in your tree
11:13:31kargatronthat's all
11:13:43kargatronmost people have album playlists, but not arbitrarily recursive ones
11:14:35ricIIso it's creates a playlist in every directory
11:14:44kargatronevery applicable directory, yes
11:14:57kargatrononly those with subfolders
11:15:18kargatronno use to create them in folderless folders, since rockbox already creates virtual playlists for those
11:15:31kargatronit's just a treewalker + 'dir' command. nothing special.
11:15:59kargatronbut people hvae been asking for recursive shuffle, and it's not high on the priority list, afaik
11:18:53ricIIaha, once the 'anonymous playlist' is working this will be redundant.
11:19:18kargatronanon pl?
11:19:37kargatronis there a submitted patch for recursive shuffling?
11:19:59kargatronof course, rockbox already creates 'anonymous playlists' for any folder you PLAY
11:20:10kargatronthey're just not recursive
11:25:26kargatrongiven the apr30 date, you can see why i noted 'not high on the priority list' :)
11:25:36ricIIthat would implement a proper queing function :)
11:27:13kargatronqueueing is high priority tho
11:27:44kargatronnot that high priority maps to what's actually done, necessarily :)
11:29:28ricIIhmm, so I take it no one is working on it?
11:31:02kargatronnot sure atm
11:31:23kargatronthere are queueing patches, but latest i heard was that the ideal interface had not been decided on
11:31:58kargatronzagor didn't want to put in something half-assed, or that would be replaced later by something else
11:32:00ricIIbut the where limited to 8 songs :(
11:34:32ricIIoption c and 'save playlist' would be ideal not ?
11:36:00kargatronnot following - are you talking about queueing?
11:37:06ricIIyes, in the anonymous playlist
11:38:36kargatronthe interface issues are more about browsing and choosing songs to queue, that's what's undecided, i think.
11:38:56kargatroni don't think they want to mimic the archos queue.
11:38:57ricIIthe code is already there?
11:39:11kargatronbut this is just secondhand - i'm not involved.
11:39:32kargatronthe queue code? there is a queue patch, but i know nothing more. afaik, there's no accepted code for it
11:39:56ricIIthe f2 & f3 buttons have rather useless functions now in the file-browser...
11:40:33ricIIthey could be restriced to the wspdisplay
12:22:45***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:06:27 Quit edx`afk ()
14:22:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:12:54 Join goodzilla [0] (
15:26:32goodzillaHello there, is there somebody?
15:27:21goodzillaWell, new to mIrc, *almost* new to my AJB rec, I still try to put my question
15:28:30goodzillaMy AJB Rec stops transferring files after a while... just like if it was running only on batteries, although it's powered.
15:28:56ricIII only have my ajb-rec for 4 days :)
15:29:07goodzillaI saw a few lines on this in yesterday's logs, but not much precisions
15:29:17goodzillaThats a great piece of hardware !
15:29:56kargatrongoodzilla, some people have that problem, yeah
15:29:59kargatronundiagnosed, afaik
15:30:19kargatroni seem to see it myself - batteries seem to run down on USB, even plugged in
15:30:36kargatronhave not had the misfortune of losing power during long dl
15:30:40kargatronyou have usb2.0?
15:30:56ricIIdidn't see it yet. (and transferd 3gb at once)
15:30:57HadakaI have the problem of running down on batteries with USB, even plugged in
15:31:09goodzillaAt home, yes. But machines whetre I transfer generally are USB1 (friends...)
15:31:55goodzillai speak of *big* transfers - around 10GB
15:32:13kargatronnot sure if there is a solution known for that
15:32:18goodzillaSo it takes hours (2 to 4 hours with usb 1)
15:32:27kargatronHadaka, you hear of any diagnoses?
15:33:14goodzillaI saw that plugging USB before or after switching on makes a different display, using Rockbox.
15:33:34Hadakakargatron: well I have my ideas
15:33:36goodzillaSo i guess the mgmt is different - well maybe - I didn't try all combinations yet
15:34:13goodzillaideas? I'm interested :)
15:34:20ricIIgoodzilla: usb is done by rockbox..
15:35:18goodzillaricII: So, rockbox is "running", while USB is on ?
15:35:42goodzillaI thought that the software was inactive when USBing
15:35:54kargatroncan be, not necessarily
15:35:59kargatrondepends on when you hook usb up
15:36:19kargatronrockbox handles usb when usb plugged in after rockbox has booted
15:36:42kargatronbut if you plug in power from OFF, that's archos, then plug in USB, still archos
15:37:14goodzillaThat's why the logo is different - good idea, btw, to have made a different logo.
15:37:27ricIIjust like charging
15:38:53goodzillai didn't notice that yet. I'll see that when back home, seems that there is a lot to discover by ourselves, since the doc is *really* end-user "click on record to record..." ;)
15:39:28*ricII is hacking around in keyboard.c
15:40:20goodzillabtw, I didn't install the archos usb drivers. Just Windows default drivers. Don't know if this could make a difference
15:41:01goodzillaAlso, I have to verify if this problem arises with USB 2.0 as well. I've bought the USB2 card along with the AJBRec.
15:41:48dwihnoI want USB2 with my laptop
15:41:54dwihnoIt's expensive :(
15:41:57dwihnoI need a donor ;)
15:42:28kargatronusb2 will 'resolve' the problem only by being much faster, therefore finishing before batts exhausted :)
15:43:06goodzillahé hé - I had USB1, and I did a transfer test just before installing the USB2 card. 10x difference. That's great. 10 to 12MB/sec instead of 1MB/sec
15:43:43goodzillaThat's still far from the 60MB/sec promised, but well....
15:43:47ricIII need a firewire2usb2 thingy..
15:44:27goodzillaLaptops with USB2 are not cheap ones
15:44:49kargatron10-12 is typical the 60 is theoretical, if nothing else (like the rest of the computer) gets in the way
15:44:54ricIIgoodzilla hd could't handle that..
15:45:12Hadakawell, the hd inside archos can hardly transfer 60
15:45:41goodzillaYep, 20GB is max for my PC drives (U2W scsi, and IDE)
15:46:28kargatronHadaka, what are your power-drain 'ideas'?
15:46:34goodzilla20MB/sec, not 20GB ;}
15:46:38dwihnogoodzilla: an USB2connect card from adaptec is not that expensive
15:46:44dwihno(for laptops) :)
15:46:56ricIIgot customfont working in kbd_input() now I need a solution for realy big fonts..
15:47:32Hadakakargatron: well, for example, it seems to keep on trickle charging even though battery drain increases immensely
15:48:18kargatroncouldn't they have designed it to bypass the batts entirely when plugged in? annoying
15:48:28Hadakakargatron: the charger cannot power the hd alone
15:48:30ricIIHadaka: that sounds plausible
15:49:58kargatroncharger can't alone? what does HD require? surprised
15:50:07goodzillahadaka: the charger + USB power should be enough for powering the HD, I think I saw external usb disks that just plug in USB
15:50:39Hadakagoodzilla: archos doesn't use USB power at all
15:50:44ricIII meant the trickle thing
15:51:40ricIIthe powersuply delivers a 1.2amps..
15:51:54HadakaricII: there's a regulator before that
15:52:07goodzillaOk, clear to me now. Ext power is just for batteries. am i right?
15:52:14Hadakagoodzilla: no
15:52:30Hadakagoodzilla: boot up archos, plug charger in, remove batteries
15:52:40Hadakagoodzilla: unit still works, backlight works, but HD can't spin up
15:53:00Hadakagoodzilla: if you try it either fails or causes a reboot with the power-loss
15:53:41ricIIok that would mean that evently power would always fail if the hd keeps spinning.
15:54:18HadakaricII: well if the hd is spun repeatedly
15:54:30goodzillaamazing... hd runs from batteries, that are charged by ext power
15:54:34ricIIlike large usb transfers..
15:54:54goodzillabut if HD don't stop, batts are getting lower and lower, even if charging
15:55:09Hadakaoh, don't mix removal of the batteries with the charging with usb problem
15:55:12Hadakaseparate things
15:55:31goodzillaYes - I did the confusion a few lines ago 8)
15:55:42ricIIyes not charging properly only makes things worse
15:56:06Hadakathere is a real problem with USB mode and charging in general
15:56:27Hadakathink about this
15:56:32kargatronso does this mean that there might be diffs in behavior during usb between archos and rockbox?
15:56:39Hadakaif you use the HD a lot, it draws a lot of power
15:56:55ricIIkargatron archos sould have the same prob.
15:57:02Hadakaso, either you end up continuously charging and discharging the battery at the same time
15:57:06HadakaricII: no
15:57:14Hadakawhich heats up the unit a lot, and I think damages the batteries
15:57:37ricIIHadaka: apart from the trickle charging..
15:57:53Hadakaor you need to do something similar to deep-discharge and hope the charger can charge the batteries enough even when using the HD
15:58:42goodzillai saw a hardware mod request for taking power from usb - I think that would be a good thing, along with the ext power. I mean, ext power + batteries + usb power should be enough for just spinning the HD ?
15:58:44HadakaricII: the charging algoritmh (when to have the charger on and when not) is different on archos and rockbox - that matters
15:58:50kargatronbut not everyone sees this problem, isn't that right?
15:59:01Hadakagoodzilla: USB power would solve things
15:59:24ricIIusb-power is after the regulator ?
15:59:26Hadakakargatron: the problem in general does exist on everybody - how it manifests itself is a bit different
15:59:46Hadakathe unit doesn't use USB-power at all - while it could use it to power the HD if it were wired that way
16:00:49goodzillaThe response to the guy who posted the hw mod said that this would involve too much modifications. I wouldn't mind doing these modifications, if this guaranties endless running time. I'm very disapointed with this power mgmt.
16:01:14ricIIhd needs ~300ma, isn't that a little to much for usb?
16:01:30goodzillaI mean, having a 20GB hd (soon, 40GB) is not very useful if you can't transfer the totality in one shot.
16:02:08kargatronat least usb2 is a workaround! without that, thbbth
16:02:26Hadakawell, I think I'll discuss this with linus some more
16:02:37Hadakasee what his thoughts are on the matter
16:02:50goodzillaMaybe we could use USB+ext power *only* when power cord is plugged... or just use as much power as possible from usb, the rest from batteries
16:03:34goodzillaI don't know electronics, but I guess that taking power from where it is is feasible
16:03:58goodzillathanks for you lights on this
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16:51:46 Nick dwihno is now known as dw|gone (dwihno@Bald067.Baldakinen.Umea.SE)
17:10:53 Quit goodzilla ()
17:25:58 Join mecraw_ [0] (~mecraw@
18:22:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:30:01 Quit kargatron ("Suckers!")
19:44:37 Join LA [0] (
19:45:39LAi see you guys are pretty hardcore into the Archos..
19:46:07ricIInot me, got the thing only 5 days :)
19:46:23LAI just got myself a Multimedia 20
19:46:36ricIIbut already hacking around in the code..
19:46:46LAI'm trying to figure out what 4 of the pins they use on the bottom connector to use for the USB 2.0 transfer
19:47:03LAI refuse to pay them $50 for a cable for USB 2.0 connectivity
19:47:15LAI was hoping someone here had the pinouts on the MM20
19:49:29ricIII wonder why archos didn't put them on the normal usb conn. they use the same..
19:49:53LAwell, my guess is because they are rather greedy, but that's just my guess ;)
19:51:22LAi've attempted to disassemble my MM20 to have a look at the PCB, but i'm not sure I can get it apart, and then put it back together.
19:53:21ricIImaybe the put a temperswitch in it...
19:54:04LAi'm not so much worried about that. it's the damn little rubber corners on it. they way they are designed, it seems to be a total pain in the ass to put them back in.
19:54:23LAlike i said, i was hoping someone here already has the pinouts :)
19:55:21ricIInot me, I only fiddle with the rockbox firmware
19:55:35LAwhat version do you have?
19:55:46ricIIrockbox ?
19:56:05LAno, of the archos
19:56:35ricII1.28 or something...
19:56:51LAno no.. i mean, do you have the jukebox, recorder, multimedia?
19:56:57ricII rec
19:58:24 Quit adi|work (No route to host)
19:58:45ricIIseemd a better deal for me that the MM
19:59:09 Join adi|work [0] (
20:01:16LAi bought the MM20 mainly because of the photo modules
20:01:43LAi'm huge into digital photography and having a portable 20g disc with a CF Reader was a very nice feature
20:04:08 Join Winkie-xC- [0] (
20:12:56Winkie-xC-Heya guys, are there any future plans to expand the range of archos' supported?
20:13:07Winkie-xC-I kinda wish i'd bought a supported one now :/
20:14:25Winkie-xC-I did read, but I wasn't sure if it meant the future, or just now.
20:14:47LAi dunno. i just know what the FAQ's say ;)
20:14:49Winkie-xC-it's somewhat.. ambiguous
20:14:51Winkie-xC-fair enough
20:14:57Winkie-xC-I want games on my FM recorder damnit :ol
20:17:04Winkie-xC-any of the dev team in here much?
20:20:01adi|workand the channel is logged
20:22:52***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:42:42HesThe FM "almost" works, as soon as a good developer gets his hands on an FM unit, or one of the FM owners with the required skill set opens up his unit and draws some schematic diagrams, it'll be supported.
20:43:43Winkie-xC-Hes, what's needed?
20:43:59Winkie-xC-I have a reasonable amount of electronic experience, but my coding below perl/pascal level is minute
20:44:07Winkie-xC-minute as in experience
20:44:14HesDonate an FM, or borrow yours for some surgic operations, to the rockbox project...
20:44:30Winkie-xC-Donate £250s worth, nah ;) .. are there any UK developers?
20:44:37Winkie-xC-I mean what sort of schematics?
20:45:44HesOf the internals. Check what's up on
20:46:29Hesthose were hand-drawn by looking at the unit, identifying each component and measuring the wirings by hand
20:47:23Winkie-xC-trace lengths important then? what degree of accuracy?
20:47:54 Join kargatron [0] (
20:48:01HesNope, they're not important... just need to know what is connected where
20:48:05Winkie-xC-ah fair enough
20:48:22Winkie-xC-you think that an incredibly high res picture/scan would be appropriate?
20:48:25Winkie-xC-(i'm lazy :o)
20:48:27HesTalk to one of the core developers, they might only need specific details and not the full story from the beginning
20:48:32HesThat would definetely help
20:49:03Winkie-xC-well I will have a decent scanner soon, but I have a camera which can interpolate up to 3200x2???
20:49:33Winkie-xC-that's the sort of images it can do, that's a pretty bad shot though
20:50:24LAHes - Do you know if anyone in Rockbox has any exp. with the Multimedia 20? I'm looking to get a list of the pinouts on the bottom connector
20:50:34LAi refuse to pay $50 USD for a cable to get USB 2.0
20:50:48Winkie-xC-pinouts non-standard?
20:51:08HesTalk to LinusN & zagor, they probably have questions about the internals
20:51:33Hesgrab a set of photos and put them on the web & tell the mailing list, it would probably help quite a bit.
20:51:45HesLA: nope, I don't
20:51:46LAit's not to much that they are non-standard, it's because they used a Micro Centronics 36 connector on the bottom of the unit
20:52:00Winkie-xC-and this is a problem why?
20:52:02LAi have 36 possible conductors to go off of
20:52:09LAusb 2.0 only uses 4..
20:52:17Heshum, so there's no separate USB connector at all?
20:52:25LAthere is, but it's only 1.1
20:52:35LAmini-usb jack on the side of the unit
20:52:39Winkie-xC-hmm, are 2 of the wires +ve and -ve?
20:52:39Hesand USB2.0 is on the uD connector??
20:52:48HesMostly strange
20:53:11HesThe Recorder 20 has USB (1.1 & 2.0 support) on the same mini-USB
20:53:18LAMC36 connector on the bottom of the unit. they use the MC36 connector for the photo modules (Smart media and CF card readers), their MPEG4 camera, firewire cables, and USB 2.0 cables
20:53:32Winkie-xC-LA, are 2 of the wires in the usb spec gnd/-ve and +ve?
20:53:46LAyes, i think they got greedy on the MM20 though.. requiring a $50 cable for usb 2.0 or $50 for a firewire cable
20:53:57LAwinkie, i'm not sure
20:54:13Winkie-xC-i'd crack it open, check traces for the +ve and GND connectors, should be easyish to find, and then guess at the other 2, but then again, I do have a lot of hardware that doesn't work :/
20:54:14LAi'm going to tear apart the MM20 to take a look at the PCB, but i'm not sure if i can get it all back together ;)
20:54:45Winkie-xC-usb spec only has +ve, gnd, data+ and data-
20:55:00Winkie-xC-I doubt there's much current flowing so I doubt you could do any damage having it the wrong way around, checking usb 2 now
20:55:24ricIILA: maybe they put a firewire/usb2 chip in the cable and mc36 is just a pcmcia slot?
20:55:55Winkie-xC-hmm that is possible
20:56:01Winkie-xC-you ever seen one of these cables LA?
20:56:06LAthat's a possiblity, but i'm not sure
20:56:27LAunfortunately i haven't. if i had, i would have ohmed it out :)
20:56:34ricIIsince a cfcard is actuly a pcmcia card..
20:57:05LAthere isn't a box or anything in the middle of the cable
20:57:14LAbut the head is larger..
20:57:17Winkie-xC-plenty of room for an IC inside the head
20:57:23LAbut on the other hand, every MC36 cable is about that side
20:57:30LAsize rather
20:57:41Winkie-xC-best thing I can suggest, is find a stockist, pop down and ask to just test their cable
20:57:46Winkie-xC-a lot of guys will be cool about that
20:57:55LAno one locally sells them
20:58:08LAin fact, i can't even find a website other than archos themselves that sells the cables
20:58:19LAwhich is another thing that leads me to believe it's a straigh through cable
20:58:43LAif they weren't worried about people making their own cables, they would sell it everywhere they sell the MM20
20:58:53Winkie-xC-first thing is I suggest cracking the box, flipping the PCB and checking it out
20:59:02LAyeah, that's on the agenda
20:59:04Winkie-xC-+ve and gnd should be /fairly/ easy to find
20:59:22ricIInah, take apart the cfcard adapter if it's just a plug changes are that the cm32 is just a pcmcia slot..
20:59:51Winkie-xC-oh yeah, shit, it's a multifunction port
20:59:55Winkie-xC-sorry, i'm an idiot
21:00:08Winkie-xC-ric is right, you're going to have a problem identifying pinouts unless you can spot a controller chip
21:00:22LAbrb.. gonna grab my CF reader
21:01:14Winkie-xC-who knows, if you're lucky you may be able to spot 2 unused pins ;)
21:01:41ricIImaybe he could hookup a ethernet card :)
21:02:34Winkie-xC-you could probably hack the firmware to get it on a network you know?
21:02:49Winkie-xC-1/2 duplex stuff only needs 2 wires
21:04:18ricIIif I where archos I would have gone for the pcmcia option, lots of ready made stuff there..
21:04:56Winkie-xC-lots of open spec stuff, non propriatory
21:05:17Winkie-xC-reminds me of the old psalm stuff, they sold a £25 connection cable, it was a standard cable with the pins shifted
21:07:07LAwell, there is indeed an 8pin IC chip in the CF reader
21:08:33ricIILA: well a cfcard is just a small pcmcia card so ...
21:09:01Winkie-xC-la, it got it's model printed on it/
21:09:28LAthe IC?
21:09:49Winkie-xC-you might be able to find what it actually is
21:10:05LAthat's what i'm working on right now
21:13:06LAthere is a site that has a listing of a ton of IC's and what they are used for
21:13:11LAi can't remember it for the life of me
21:22:13Winkie-xC-heh, just found out the jukebox fm recorder is a lith ion/polymer battery
21:22:29LAsame with the MM20
21:23:23Winkie-xC-god knows when i'll get mine
21:23:26Winkie-xC-need it in the next week really suck though ;)
21:26:00LAUK site?
21:27:16 Join LinusN [0] (
21:27:43LAi found out what the IC is
21:27:57LinusNwhat is it?
21:28:01LAit's a 3.3v voltrage regulator
21:28:06LAerr.. voltage ;)
21:28:11LinusNaha, what model number?
21:28:25LAit's a national semi 2829-3.3
21:28:55LAso, i'm guessing that the interface is more than likely PCMCIA. but it could still be proprietray
21:29:04LAi really need to just open it up and take a look at the PCB
21:29:08LinusNfrom what i have heard, the USB2.0 adapter has some IC:s on it as well
21:29:18LAoh really?
21:29:38LAumm.. how did you know what we were talking about anyhow..?
21:29:49LinusNthe irc sessions are logged
21:30:04LAdoh.. i forgot that you guys have a real time txt log
21:30:35Winkie-xC-LinusN, question for you regarding the jukebox recorder FM 20 thingymebub
21:30:47Winkie-xC-would pictures of the entire internals come in handy?
21:30:57Winkie-xC-and is there anything like anywhere nearing any support at all as far as you know?
21:31:04LinusNyes, but it won't be enough
21:31:23Winkie-xC-what would you need aswell?
21:31:30LinusNWinkie-xC-: we are kind of stuck, since we don't know enough about how the hardware is designed
21:31:41LinusNwe need schematics
21:32:14LinusNsomeone must open it up and find out which pin is connected to what
21:32:28LinusNlike we did on the other models
21:32:41Winkie-xC-so you'd want a full schematic?
21:32:59Winkie-xC-hmm, i'll see if I can do anything, but i'm not as experienced as you guys
21:33:13Winkie-xC-how much work would it be to add in support if you were given a full schematic?
21:34:03LinusNWinkie-xC-: not necessarily full
21:34:27LinusNwe suspect that they are pretty alike
21:34:48LinusNthe LCD and the battery interface are important
21:34:56Winkie-xC-well what i'll do is, when I get mine (1-3 days according to dabs), i'll crack it open, take high res shots of the entire boards, i'll try and get in every connection and trace, then send it off to you / upload? you can shout me for any specifics you want?
21:35:07Winkie-xC-yeah, it's a lith ion instead of normal nimh
21:35:15LinusNif we were given a full schematic it shouldn't be hard at all
21:35:33Winkie-xC-well my electronic equipment at the moment is limited to a multimeter or two, soldering irons and a large mallet
21:35:36LinusNWinkie-xC-: i can draw the schematic if you want
21:35:46Winkie-xC-from the photographs?
21:35:50LinusNjust create a netlist
21:36:11LinusNIC1pin1 -> IC2pin3
21:36:18LinusNor the like
21:36:36LinusNwith the multimeter
21:36:37Winkie-xC-i'll see what I can do, hardest bit will be making sure I dont go over any more than once
21:36:59Winkie-xC-brb (gotta use the loo)
21:37:11LinusNthe hires photos are indeed interesting to identify the chips
21:37:27LAi've got a quick non technical question for you guys..
21:37:38LAwhy do UK sites list 2 prices?
21:37:48LAfor example.
21:38:38LAumm.. ok.. what's that?
21:38:48LinusNValue Added Tax
21:38:51*LA lives in the states
21:38:54kargatrona super high tax we don't have to pay in the US :)
21:39:18kargatronthink of VAT as a sales tax that's built into the chain of commerce, not added at the end.
21:39:25kargatronand typicvally 18% or so
21:39:31LAahhh.. ouch
21:39:39kargatronyeah, nasty.
21:39:46LAand i thought my Allegheny tax was high @ 7%..
21:39:54LinusNisn't it so that many US stores add the tax at the cashier?
21:40:06kargatronall stores do
21:40:12LinusNso younever know what you will end up paying
21:40:22kargatrona state sales tax, usually <10%.
21:40:36kargatronsure you know, if you can exercise artihmetic estimation. :)
21:40:47LinusNVAT in Sweden is 25%
21:40:50kargatrona couple states have no sales tax, but it's not common
21:40:55LA2.99 + 7% Allegheny county tax = 3.20
21:40:57Winkie-xC-17.5% is our tax
21:41:11Winkie-xC-LinusN, "hires photos"?
21:41:14Winkie-xC-ah, high res
21:41:28kargatronVAT's more insidious, imo, because it's NOT obvious how much of the price is tax.
21:41:35LinusNi gotta put my son to bed
21:41:42LinusNcu guys
21:41:46Winkie-xC-ok, thanks LinusN, where do I send photos etc?
21:41:50kargatronsales tax, you see right there what the govt is extorting :)
21:42:04ricIIanyone working on queing & anonymous playlist stuf?
21:42:06Winkie-xC-kargatron, we get majorly screwed over for tax in the UK
21:42:14LinusNWinkie-xC-: i would prefer you to put themm up for download and send me the link
21:42:23kargatroni pity music buyers in europe
21:42:26Winkie-xC-LinusN, fine by me, email or newsgroup?
21:42:36LinusNlinus at
21:42:40kargatroni'm in greece, but have access to a diplomatic mailbox, so can shop like in the US
21:43:00LinusNcu, bye!
21:43:09 Part LinusN
21:45:21kargatronricII, as we discussed earlier, i don't think so...not actively atm.
21:45:49kargatronperhaps the decision about queueing interface is on zagor's stovetop somewhere...
21:46:01Winkie-xC-queueing interface?
21:46:14Winkie-xC-what's the firmware actually written in anyway?
21:46:24Winkie-xC-thought as much
21:46:41Winkie-xC-sok that cause i'll be able to hax it a bit if i fancy much changing
21:46:49Winkie-xC-i'm off, thanks for the help guys
21:46:51 Part Winkie-xC-
21:46:51kargatroni seem to remember zagor not being satisfied with the UI used by the available queue patch, nor the archos UI
21:47:00kargatronok, nm :)
21:47:33ricIII already made some hooks, on+play (insert) on+right (append).. (just to get to know the code a little)
21:49:43ricIIalong with other stuppid things like viewer wrap, kbd_input() with curfont...
21:51:26LAwell, I guess i'm just going to end up buying the cable
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