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#rockbox log for 2003-01-04

00:05:40 Quit dfg (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:23:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:27:13 Join LinusN [0] (
00:27:25hardeepheya LinusN!
00:27:29 Nick mecraw__ is now known as mecraw (~mecraw@
00:27:30hardeephappy new year!
00:27:40LinusNhardeep: care to commit the FAT fix you did?
00:27:52LinusNhappy new year to you too
00:28:00hardeepLinusN: i committed it last year
00:28:11LinusNoh, didn't see that
00:28:36*LinusN giggles, "last year"...
00:28:44hardeephehe, yeah :)
00:29:06Hadakahey linus! meant to talk to you about something
00:29:27Hadakanamely, battery charging and USB
00:29:40HadakaI'm not entirely sure how power is distributed around the archos unit
00:30:08LinusNwhat is your question?
00:31:04Hadakawell, the basic problem is that when the harddrive is under a heavy load in USB mode - and the charger is plugged - the batteries are continuously being discarded and charged at the same time
00:31:46Hadakaand this seems to heat up the unit pretty much - and I'm guessing it hurt my battery life quite a bit
00:31:47LinusNthe sad part is that the HD never spins down in USB mode
00:32:33Hadakaso my basic problem is to improve this situation somehow and the problems around it - and that springs a lot of questions
00:32:43Hadakabut I don't need to ask them if someone has thought this through already :)
00:32:47 Quit dfg_ ("Client Exiting")
00:34:29LinusNI have been thinking about enabling the STANDBY mode of the hard drive before switching to USB
00:34:48LinusNbut i think the ISD chip resets it
00:35:10HadakaLinusN: can't those be manipulated from the USB end, eg. from the computer end?
00:35:18LinusNotherwise you can't do anything about it
00:35:37LinusNsure, that may be handled by the computer
00:39:02Hadakahmmh, it shows up as an scsi device in linux, that complicates things
00:39:44LinusNIt is pretty trivial to patch the ISD200 driver for the Player models
00:40:02Hadakatime to install scsitools and see if there's enough interface there
00:42:22Hadakahmmh nope
00:42:34Hadakatoo bad, so patching the driver is necessary
00:42:55Hadakaanyway, but that wasn't my main problem with this thing, although fixing it would be good
00:43:04LinusNplayer or recorder?
00:43:11Hadakathe question is that can the load on the batteries be helped somehow?
00:43:32Hadakaas in, would for example having deep discharge on during usb mode help or hurt things
00:44:01LinusNprobably help
00:45:42Hadakathere's a small problem there though
00:46:25Hadakathe deep discharge is a bit too deep - a lot of hd operations at the low end will cause the drive to suddenly spin down when it loses power
00:47:30LinusNthen don't use deep discharge :-)
00:48:02Hadakayes but then there's the problem that the batteries are discharged only a little bit, then charged back to full, then discharged a little bit, then charged back to full
00:48:14Hadakaand it would seem that uwe's trickle charge causes even more problems
00:48:28Hadakasometimes the batteries go full so it goes over the top-off charge on to trickle charge
00:48:53Hadakathen heavy power consumption begins and it doesn't seem to notice that the battery power is dropping rapidly and just keeps on trickle charging
00:49:18HadakaI need to debug this mode - put on the charging variables in the USB screen so I can tell for sure
00:49:36LinusNdo so, you may be on to something
00:51:36HadakaI'm just wondering first that what would be the optimal strategy for battery usage in USB mode
00:53:34LinusNi think a semi-deep discharge would be it
00:54:12HesGood evening
00:54:29LinusNhi Hes
00:54:46Hes... or the normal mode without trickle/deep if one wants to be sure the batteries are almost full when one's finished with transferring files
00:55:05HadakaI just wonder how the power is distributed in the unit - since it can run without batteries somewhat
00:55:23LinusNHadaka: it's simple
00:55:35Hesbtw - i've made an almost complete finnish translation
00:55:41LinusNthe unit can run directly off the external power
00:55:48Hesthought it'd be a quick & easy job, but was wrong 8-)
00:56:03LinusNbut the batteries are needed to be able to spin the hard drive
00:56:25LinusNHes: finnish is surely a verbose language
00:56:52LinusNlots of long words
00:57:17HadakaLinusN: so when the charger is on, it largely powers the hard drive, but not quite enough?
00:57:44Hesand lots of obvious but either very bad or too long translations for the technical terms needed
00:57:46LinusNit may be able to keep it spinning, but it's not enough to spin it up
00:57:58 Join BoD[] [0] (
00:59:30LinusNi have to get some sleep
00:59:54LinusNcu guys
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01:26:29 Quit langhaarrocker (Client Quit)
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01:35:08bmidy c
01:51:21 Quit bmidy ("[BX] Hanson uses BitchX. Mommy, can we dress like boys again?")
02:17:54 Quit BoD[] ("Peut contenir des traces de canabis.")
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02:50:53 Join CellarBoy [0] (
02:51:53CellarBoyWill the rockbox firmware work on the Archos FM Recorder?
02:52:59Hadakanot yet, atleast
02:53:10Hadakapossibly never
02:53:33CellarBoywhy never?
02:54:17Hadakaif something really fatal has changed
02:54:23Hadakait doesn't look that way, but one never knows
02:56:14CellarBoyI willing to try to port it too the new FM recorder, do you know where the best place to start as far a research goes?
02:56:37HadakaCellarBoy: taking your unit apart
02:56:51HadakaCellarBoy: if you are not willing to do that, it's going to be trickier
02:57:10HadakaCellarBoy: try asking on the list, there are people there that have progressed with the FM port
02:57:12CellarBoyAlready took it apart//
02:57:37HadakaCellarBoy: then scans of the boards would be nice, I guess :)
02:58:10HadakaCellarBoy: anyway, I'm the wrong person to ask, Zagor (Björn) and Linus and others are much better - raise them through the list
03:17:31 Quit edx ()
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04:23:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:59:29 Quit adi|work ("[x]chat")
05:06:53 Join PsycoXul [0] (
05:31:25PsycoXulso i bought a casio cassiopeia be-300 on ebay
05:31:34PsycoXulinteresting little cheap color pda
05:31:46PsycoXulapparently it's strong point is it's hackability and hw capabilities for the price
05:33:24PsycoXulnow what'd be really cool is if this thing can act as a usb master somehow :p
05:34:27MrSnazzgood luck, without doing hardware mods
05:34:39PsycoXulit has a cf card slot, and you can get a pcmcia thing that goes into it, and then a pcmcia usb thing to go in that, but i dunno if it actualy supports doing that specifically heh... rather costly attempt without knowing if it'll work heh
05:34:49MrSnazzthat's not a bad idea
05:34:54MrSnazzmight hafta write a driver though :)
05:35:11 Join SmoothPeanutButt [0] (
05:35:25PsycoXulbut it'd be a cheap way to have a *TON* of storage, if it does work
05:35:34MrSnazzaww yeah
05:35:38SmoothPeanutButtWhat does it mean when it says that the dir buffer is full?
05:35:39PsycoXul20G HD hooked to a PDA that can play movies...
05:35:55SmoothPeanutButtAnd does this relate to not being able to see directories?
05:36:04PsycoXulSmoothPeanutButt: it means that the buffer for directory listing is full
05:36:09PsycoXulSmoothPeanutButt: see FAQ
05:36:40PsycoXulbut USB might be kinda slow for playing movies from... heh
05:37:10PsycoXulwhats a good average bitrate for a 320x240 divx?
05:42:17SmoothPeanutButtIs there any way of keeping windows from creating a recycle bin on the device?
05:42:42PsycoXuljust keep from using windows
05:43:11hardeep<PsycoXul> SmoothPeanutButt: see FAQ
05:43:12hardeep<PsycoXul> but USB might be kinda slow for playing movies from... heh
05:43:12hardeep<PsycoXul> whats a good average bitrate for a 320x240 divx?
05:43:12DBUGEnqueued KICK hardeep
05:43:12hardeep [11:40pm][hardeep] [#rockbox(+nt)]
05:43:47hardeepSmoothPeanutButt: right click on recycle bin and select properties
05:44:03hardeepyou can disable recycle bin from loading for a specific drive
05:44:57SmoothPeanutButtAh. Isee now. I had all drive using the same setting. Good . Good.
05:47:33SmoothPeanutButtI gotta say... mad props to everyone that worked on RockBox. Wow. Very nice.
05:56:20SmoothPeanutButtIs there any place that they have WPS and fonts matched up? So that if you want a given font, you can find a WPS that will work with it?
06:00:38hardeepSmoothPeanutButt: nope... you'll have to try it out on your own
06:01:04hardeepbut you may want to post a message on the mailing list or the boards (yahoo, funmp3players)
06:01:21hardeepget other people's suggestions
06:04:47SmoothPeanutButtIt would be a cool modification to the WPS syntax to allow specification of font inside the file and load it if available....
06:11:07hardeepit's been discussed before... there's probably an open feature request for it
06:20:48PsycoXulVIDEO: [DIV3] 720x416 24bpp 25.00 fps 738.4 kbps (90.1 kbyte/s)
06:21:09PsycoXul738kbps .. that could theoretically stream over usb1.1, yeah?
06:23:14SmoothPeanutButtUSB 2.0 all the way baby! .. :)
06:23:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:26:37PsycoXuloh yeah this pda can run linux too, though the support's still early
06:27:02PsycoXulit can boot and it supports the FB, but not the touchscreen or serial port or much of anything else yet
06:37:00SmoothPeanutButtIs there any way of having the recorder boot off the ROM only (without having to delete/move/rename the rockbox firmware file)? Some sort of key combo on boot?
06:38:40PsycoXuldownload the latest archos firmware and put it on the drive as some other filename
06:38:45PsycoXuland then you can just select that in rockbox to boot it
06:38:56 Quit seb-away (Connection timed out)
06:39:18SmoothPeanutButtAh... Count on me to miss the obvious!
06:39:23PsycoXulhaven't you looked at the FAQ yet? :p
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07:38:21 Join adi|work [0] (
07:40:06 Join Kshain [0] (Kshain@
07:40:21Kshainhey, anyone available to give me some help?
07:46:15CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
07:46:15*Kshain slaps Hadaka around a bit with a large trout
07:46:55 Part Kshain
07:50:48 Join Kshain [0] (~masticore@
07:51:07hardeepKshain: hi
07:51:59Kshainah hi
07:52:09Kshainsorry, my comp crashed
07:52:28hardeepnp, what was your question?
07:52:35KshainI have a couple
07:53:13Kshainfirst of all, what software can I use to edit my archos 10 gig studio with rockbox
07:53:25Kshainthe musicmatch studio doesnt seem to work with it now
07:53:45hardeepwhat do you want to edit? playlists?
07:54:27Kshainwell, I wanted to use the volume leveling and mp3 enhancer from musicmatch
07:54:38Kshainplaylists is my second question
07:55:12hardeepthere is nothing in the rockbox firmware that disables either of those two things
07:55:26Kshainoh, so I can do those?
07:55:47hardeepthat's just modifying the mp3 file
07:56:04Kshainwell thats where the problem is. Musicmtch wont reconize that my jb is hooked to my comp
07:56:46hardeephmmmm, sounds like a hardware issue. have you checked the cables etc.?
07:57:16Kshainyah my comp reads the mp3 player fine.
07:58:07hardeepthen there must be something wrong with your musicmatch settings
07:58:25Kshainhmmm, would using a warez copy have something to do with it
07:58:37hardeepheh, a likely cause
07:58:48Kshainok, on to my secon question
07:58:55hardeepthe rockbox firmware doesn't do anything when the usb cable is plugged in
07:59:08Kshainhmmm ok
07:59:25KshainSo yah I'll install my older disk version
08:00:08Kshainmy second question is: If I read this correctly, there is no way to make playlists just of my mp3 player yet is there?
08:00:35hardeepnot with rockbox
08:00:56hardeephowever, you can load the archos firmware using the ROLO feature and create them from there
08:01:15hardeepthe next rockbox release will hopefully include playlist creation
08:02:46Kshainsorry, whats the ROLO feature. Methinks I missed that one
08:03:23hardeepQ33 in
08:04:55Kshainone more question
08:04:56hardeepanother decent writeup on using the feature is at:
08:07:43KshainI was looking and I dont have the version of jukebox that came with my player. You dont by any chance know where to get one thats comp with a studio 10 do you?
08:08:47hardeepother than purchasing another copy online, nope
08:09:04Kshainyuck. Ok thanks for all your help.
08:09:09KshainCya later
08:09:11hardeepi've actually never used musicmatch... i prefer EAC+Lame for ripping and explorer for copying
08:09:23Kshainah yas me too usually
08:09:32KshainI just like the enhancer and volume leveler
08:09:54hardeephmmmm, there is a freeware volume leveller i've heard mentioned
08:10:32KshainI'll check that out
08:10:36Kshainthanks again
08:10:46hardeepi forget it's name... look at the mailing list archives
08:11:01 Part Kshain
08:12:55hardeepaha, mp3gain
08:23:35***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:42:09*adi|work is away: home
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11:38:41 Quit hardeep ("[BX] Did somebody say BitchX?")
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16:06:36 Join duke_sam_away [0] (
16:07:07 Nick duke_sam_away is now known as duke_sam_vimes (
16:07:10duke_sam_vimeshello all
16:09:57duke_sam_vimeshappen to know if there is anything new and interesting in the latest daily build?(well any after around christmas day)
16:12:39kargatronnot much
16:12:55kargatronsaw a couple minor bug fixes yesterday, but most people on holiday or lying low
16:13:11duke_sam_vimesah, what bugs are squashed?
16:13:24kargatronthat's what the email list is for :)
16:15:00duke_sam_vimesgood point
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18:23:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:17:03wethionGreets. I've got a Jukebox studio I'm trying to get working. I'm running Debian unstable with a 2.5.54 kernel. I have ISD-200, PCI hotplug, USB support and USB mass storage in the kernel. I got and installed the software for hotplugging from sourceforge, and installed it with some minor modifications because I'm running debian rather than RH. When I tell the hotplug init script to start, I get "Can't synthesize pci hotplug even
19:19:43*wethion nods 'Thanks' to schuepf for getting me this far.
19:21:19schuepfwethion: but usb doesn't run by now ?
19:22:20schuepfyou do also need SCSI support to be able to mount the device
19:23:56wethionschuepf: I an running an all scsi system already.. Oh, I also installed ATA support in the kernel jic.
19:25:22schuepfdo you get an usb.c output in syslog when unplugging the archos ?
19:28:41wethionall I'm getting in syslog is 'please use usbfs filetype instead, the usbdevfs name is deprecated.'
19:29:21wethionand that's only when I start the hotplug init script.
19:29:51wethionis it as simple as editing the script to use usbfs rather than usbdevfs?
19:37:20wethionI just ran /sbin/hotplug manually, with usb as an argument, and the syslog spits out "/etc/hotplug/usb.agent: Bad USB agent invocation."
19:40:02wethionfsck. after additional reading of the hotplug man page, I reran /sbin/hotplug add usb, and syslog reports "no runnable /etc/hotplug/add.agent is installed. Did I miss something?
19:52:56schuepfdo you find a /etc/hotplug/usb.agent file ?
19:54:19schuepfalso there should be a usb.distmap file
19:57:24 Join Kshain [0] (Kshain@
19:57:42Kshaink people, got another question for whoever can give me a moment
20:00:41schuepfkshain: so, where's your question ?...
20:01:03wethionschuepf: both are tehre.
20:01:49schuepfwethion: hmm, I found that I use the usbdevfs !
20:02:13wethionschuepf: what's the exact commandline I should be entering. perhaps am reading things wrong...
20:03:11schuepfdo you already have started the usb.rc ?
20:04:00wethionI have no usb.rc, I did start the hotplug init script in /etc/init.d however.
20:05:31schuepfwell my system starts usb.rc from /etc/hotplug when invoking /etc/init.d/hotplug
20:06:22wethionWhoops.. I didn't update the locate database.. :) I do indeed have a usb.rc in /etc/hotplug.
20:07:18Kshaingot distracted for a sec
20:08:02Kshainmy question is whats up with the updates? for the last three-four days ive dloaded the daily and/or bleeding edge builds, and I checked the version −− there was no actual update
20:08:09Kshainthe version # is still the same
20:08:16wethionWTF.. what's QM_MODULES?
20:08:21schuepfwethion: and you have a setup in /etc/sysconfig/hotplug - there the rc uses variables from
20:09:21schuepfdon't know QM_MODULES...
20:11:21schuepfin my rc there something which maybe helps you with the synthesize output:
20:11:25schuepf# if USB is partially initted, synthesize hotplug events since
20:11:27schuepf # the kernel probably dropped them (missing root, unwritable /tmp)
20:11:28schuepf if [ -d /proc/bus/usb -a `ls /proc/bus/usb 2>&1 | wc -l` -gt 2 ]; then
20:11:29schuepf SYNTHESIZE=true
20:11:31schuepf fi
20:12:10wethionI just did a lsmod and got returned: "QM-MODULES: functin not implemented"
20:12:18wethionlemme try that snippet..
20:12:28schuepfwhere do you need these ?
20:13:07wethionI dunno.. I have apparently *no* modules loaded accdg to lsmod.
20:13:49schuepfdid you set all the usb stuff to be compiled into the kernel ?
20:14:02Kshainah well, someone just say so when they have a moment
20:14:37wethionNo, I compiled them all as modules as per rockbox suggestion.
20:14:59wethionlemme poke around..brb
20:15:35schuepfso try to load usbcore via modprobe: modprobe -q usbcore
20:16:36schuepfwethion: maybe this is all a bit off topic...should we switch to another room ?
20:17:04 Quit ricII (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
20:17:47wethionall I get is a QM_MODULES error.. There's something screwy with my kernel.. I'm going to look around to see WTF is going on.
20:18:45schuepfmaybe you forgot the modules support ;-))
20:21:43wethionschuepf: There's a bug in the kernel.. have to patch it... Ok, I'll be back later. Hey, Thank you for your help, it's appreciated.
20:22:38Kshainalright, anyone available to give me a bit of help now?
20:23:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:23:55schuepfI would if I had an idea ;-)
20:24:43Kshainah you dont know why the updates arnt happening?
20:25:10schuepfno, I've recognized that also...
20:25:39Kshainhmmm ok. Just making sure I wasnt the only one this was happening too
20:25:44 Part Kshain
20:26:49 Join ricII [0] (
20:33:19 Join Kshain [0] (Kshain@
20:33:51Kshainanyone here use MusicMatch?
20:37:15Kshainwell, anyone that can give me help with it?
20:41:46ricIIno, maybe
20:42:58Kshainwell, if you dont have musicmatch, your probably not gonna know what Im talking about
20:43:14Kshainwhat software do you use with your archos?
20:47:35ricIII'm grip (linuxppc)
20:48:58Kshainahhh damn
20:49:23ricIIbut on windows there is cdex..
20:50:48Kshainwhats that?
20:51:01ricIIcd ripper/mp3 encoder
20:51:28Kshainah. Well I like using musicmatch primarily because of volume leveling and the mp3 enhancer
20:51:42Kshainyou dont by any chance know any software that has those do you?
20:52:29ricIImp3 enhancer, hmm whats that. CDex handles volume leveling.
20:55:51Kshainits a prog that you use to screw with stuff like the fidelity, ambiance, dynamic boost, 3d sound etc..
20:58:09ricIIso more a kindof audio editing, filtering.
20:58:46PsycoXuli doubt it makes up for the probably poor quality musicmatch encodes at :p
21:00:32Kshainyah to ric, maybe to psycho
21:00:57PsycoXulthere's no h in my name :p
21:01:18Kshainoh yah. Missed that
21:01:56Kshainric: do you only use cdex to rip? or can you use it to update to your archos too?
21:03:43PsycoXulheh i'm sitting here dovnloading all this software and stuff for my pda that won't even get here till the 10th
21:03:46ricIIKshain: to move files from&to the archos I use the os native drivers..
21:05:15Kshainhmmm. thats how i usually do it too, but then I cant use vol lvling and the enhancer
21:06:33Kshainwhat pda?
21:06:47Kshain(what type i mean)
21:06:59PsycoXulcasio be-300
21:07:25PsycoXulit's s "pocket manager"
21:07:31PsycoXulwhich just means that it's not quite a pocket pc
21:07:35Kshainis that a good one? Im not exactly a professional on pda's
21:07:43PsycoXulwell from all i've read
21:07:59PsycoXulthe only people who like it are the people who hack it
21:08:13PsycoXuland put on the alternative OS's and 3rd party software
21:08:36Kshainlol and let me guess- your gonna hack the shit out of it
21:09:15PsycoXuldamn straight
21:10:24Kshainfun fun fun
21:10:36PsycoXuli've already downloaded this thing called expod or somesuch
21:10:44PsycoXulit's like an alternate OS sorta deal for this pda
21:10:58PsycoXulmakes a lot of pocket pc software run on it
21:12:00 Join hardeep [0] (hardeeps@
21:12:20PsycoXuli was just looking for a cheap pda to replace a pen and paper notepad
21:12:43PsycoXulthen i saw i could get one with a 240x320 color screen, sound, and 166mhz MIPS CPU for ~$100
21:13:48PsycoXuland then when i went searching for more info about it, i saw all these people hacking it into similar capabilities as the $250+ pocket pc's and such, and so now i'm getting excited :p
21:14:12Kshainlol. Dont get your hopes to far up. Alot of times these hacks are skrewy
21:14:24PsycoXulwell yeah
21:14:26Kshainnot in all cases though (rockbox etc...)
21:14:34PsycoXuli'll still be happy just to have what i wanted it for to start with
21:14:59Kshainyah. I was gonna get a pda but.... id never use it :)
21:15:24PsycoXulbeing able to play gameboy, (s)nes games, doom... and a bunch of nice software for misc stuff
21:15:27PsycoXulis all bonus
21:15:32Kshainoh thats cool
21:15:43PsycoXulit can even play divx movies
21:16:16PsycoXulthough it's only got 16mb built in and i've only got an 8mb CF card to use with it, so... heh
21:17:34Kshainyah I heard they might get it up to a ps emulator lvl
21:18:13PsycoXulapparently it barely handles snes
21:18:42PsycoXulso it can't even do gba emulation fast enough to be playable (or at least, last i heard.. i guess somebody was working on it anyway though heh)
21:23:13Kshainah, maybe not then
21:23:31Kshainmaybe Im thinking about the handheld pc?
21:23:51Kshainanyhow, any of you guys use kazaa lite?
21:23:57Kshainor kazaa?
21:24:09PsycoXuli use mldonkey (edonkey network)
21:24:57Kshainis it any good?
21:25:20PsycoXulit's kinda flakey
21:25:31Kshainif not, get kazaa lite + the new 2.02+ update
21:25:34Kshainit kicks ass
21:25:39PsycoXuli've had fight club svcd disc2 at 97.7% for like a month or 2 now
21:25:55PsycoXulwhen i tried kazaa it sucked
21:26:03Kshainkazaa or kazaa lite?
21:26:04PsycoXulthe linux client was a cheap POS and i couldn't find stuff i wanted
21:27:30Kshainkazaa or kazaa lite?
21:27:49PsycoXulnever heard of kazaa lite
21:28:07PsycoXulsounds like it's just a 'lite' version of the program itself
21:28:13PsycoXuland i didn't use the windows program, i used the linux one
21:29:46Kshainhmmm. Well Kazaa lite is great
21:29:51Kshainkazaa by itself sucks
21:29:59Kshainhere (one sec)
21:30:33 Quit schuepf ("ChatZilla 0.8.11 [Mozilla rv:1.2.1/20021130]")
21:31:53PsycoXulthats for windows
21:33:31 Join schuepf [0] (
21:34:39PsycoXuloh cool
21:34:53PsycoXulthere's even a scumm prog for this pda so i can play monkey island on it
21:38:11Kshaingreat game
21:39:02ricIIwhere can one change global_settings.scrollbar?
21:41:11ricIInevermind, found it..
21:42:27Kshaink, cuz I have no clue what you were talking about :)
21:44:54Kshainyay! finally got musicmatch working with my archos!
21:59:19 Join ken0 [0] (marklar2@
22:23:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:01:27 Nick edx`busy is now known as edx`pro7 (
23:01:40 Nick edx`pro7 is now known as edx (
23:03:02schuepffolx, am I right, that if the archos is connected to usb after it's completely booted, the processor isn't halted...??
23:03:11 Nick edx is now known as edx`pro7 (
23:04:08schuepfI'm thinking 'bout building hadrware, which uses the archos dispay during usb access to archos to keep it cheap...

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