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#rockbox log for 2003-01-07

00:01:25 Join breaker [0] (
00:02:23 Quit dfg ("Client Exiting")
00:03:22 Quit breaker (Client Quit)
00:24:40***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:45:47 Quit datazone (
00:48:12NJoindatazone [0] (~datazone@
01:00:29 Nick seb-away is now known as _seb_ (
01:43:33 Nick _seb_ is now known as seb-away (
01:46:43 Join kublacom [0] (
01:47:37kublacomI have Archos 20 FM Recorder. I copied ROckbox files to ARJ, but it wont load rockbox, old firmware continues to load ?? Whats up
01:48:01PsycoXulafaik the FM versions aren't supported yet
01:48:10PsycoXulthere's some differences
01:48:44kublacomwell good, at least theres a reason hehheh. thanks alot
01:50:04 Quit kublacom (Client Quit)
02:01:59 Quit mecraw_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:03:52 Join derfel [0] (
02:05:05derfelhey.. I just downloaded rockbox, untarr-ed to my archos fm recorder 20, rebooted and nothing happened. is there something else I am supposed to do?
02:05:51derfelyeah, pretty damm funny
02:05:59derfelany suggestions?
02:06:08PsycoXulwhats funny is that somebody asked that same question 15 minutes ago
02:06:13PsycoXul< PsycoXul> afaik the FM versions aren't supported yet
02:06:18PsycoXul< PsycoXul> there's some differences
02:06:34derfeldamm..that sucks for me...
02:06:50PsycoXuli think they've gotten it to load to some degree
02:07:11PsycoXulthey may want more people who own them to help them test stuff, so if you're willing to live on the edge a bit maybe you can help
02:07:28derfelno problem.. I can test... as long as I can Un-install it!
02:07:31PsycoXulzagor, linusn, and bagder are the main developers
02:07:50derfelare they here?
02:07:55PsycoXulnot right now
02:08:00derfeloh well
02:08:04PsycoXulthey're usualy on later
02:08:30derfelthe software that comes with it really sucks
02:08:53PsycoXulyeah archos is lousy at the firmware on their products
02:08:59PsycoXulthats why rockbox exists heh
02:09:15derfeloh yeah... even the soft buttons are mis-mapped
02:09:26derfelif you hit 'run' - it's really delete
02:09:33PsycoXulgee thats nice
02:09:42PsycoXuli suppose thats a "space saver" feature, eh?
02:09:44derfeloh yeah.. I don't know how that damm thing got out the door
02:10:16derfelit would have never passed my uat dept... they kill us as it is.. and people at archos let that get out the door
02:10:52PsycoXulwell by this point they're probably thinking they'll let the rockbox people worry about it :p
02:11:01PsycoXulit'd be nice if they gave some docs though, if that is what they're thinking
02:11:05derfelhaha.. that's true
02:11:23derfelso many people in this room... where is everyone?
02:13:21derfelis Björn Stenberg a developer too?
02:14:03PsycoXulthats zagor
02:14:28derfelcool.. thanks
02:15:48derfelhaha.. I just checked out the irc log.. I saw the talk from the last time someone asked the same question as I did
02:15:53derfelgood timing
02:16:31derfelwhat is "PONG"?
02:16:55PsycoXulthe game?
02:17:08derfelfigured... I thought maybe it was something else
02:17:28 Join Kshain [0] (~masticore@
02:20:36 Part Kshain
02:20:52derfelo well
02:22:01derfelso how hard is it do developer for the jukebox?
02:22:25PsycoXulyou write code in C, cross-compile it, throw it on there
02:22:35PsycoXulit's pretty easy if you're familiar with that sorta stuff
02:22:52derfelC is no problem.. what is the cross compiler?
02:23:13PsycoXulcompiling something for one architecture on another
02:23:49derfeleverything is text based?
02:23:51ricIIthe fm again, maybe it sould be put in the FAQ.
02:23:57derfelthat's a dumb question
02:23:57PsycoXulricII: yeah
02:24:01PsycoXulricII: i thought it was... heh
02:24:09PsycoXulderfel: recorders have a bitmap screen
02:24:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:25:09ricIII specialy got the archos rec for rockbox :) ( I needed a new toy )
02:26:14PsycoXuli chose the archos out of the hd-based players available at xmas time last year, because it just "seemed" to me like the most hackable
02:26:29PsycoXuland then the first inklings of rockbox came along later that month heh
02:26:30ricIIxmas prescent to my self, g4 powerbook is almost working now..
02:27:27ricIII kinda casemoded it today... (I liked it more naked :) )
02:28:00derfelhey..where are you guys?
02:28:04 Join devZer0 [0] (
02:28:30ricIIderfel: sorry just got back
02:29:18ricII"derfel: everything is text based?: yes..
02:30:28ricIIderfel: the compiler translates human readable code to machine code..
02:30:51ricIIin short...
02:30:59derfelthanks.. I knew that.. just didn't know about a cross compiler..
02:31:20PsycoXulthe cross-compiler is just like any other compiler
02:31:29PsycoXulit's output is just for the different architecture
02:31:44ricIIalso called a target.
02:31:50devZer0hi there. first time on this channel :)
02:31:51derfelwhat arch do you specify for the cross compiler?
02:32:07PsycoXulthese archos devices have an sh1 processor
02:32:08ricIIderfel: sh1
02:32:12PsycoXulso we use the sh1 cross-compiler
02:32:48derfelis there something else you can write for the jb other than firmware?
02:32:56ricIIthe low memory is the tricky part...
02:33:06derfelhow much memory is on them?
02:33:15ricII2mb for all
02:33:25derfelespecially with C... overwrite one byte and you're screwed
02:33:39devZer0derfel: games,apps - all you can imagine
02:34:01PsycoXulyou can do all kinds of neat little things
02:34:06PsycoXulespecialy on the recorder
02:34:12derfelbut do they have to be integrated with the firmware or can they run separetely?
02:34:19PsycoXulsince i've got a lowley player though, i've broken down and bought myself a pda heh
02:34:29devZer0there are some games and demos already inside rockbox
02:34:30PsycoXulderfel: either, depending on what you wanna do
02:34:49ricIIderfel: there no (V)M...
02:34:54devZer0sorry guys - is this ok to "integrate" into your conversation ?
02:34:57derfelis there some place with any documentation on developing for this platform?
02:37:19ricIII learnd most by hacking around in rockbox.. (short week now)
02:38:13derfelonce they get rockbox to run on the fm recorder, I'll probably play around
02:39:15ricIIunfortunely may laptop doesn't have a serialport, so no realtime debuging..
02:39:38derfelhow do you setup a debugging environment?
02:40:16ricIIderfel if you want to do it on the archos you need a hardware mod.
02:40:33devZer0isn`t it possible to add serial port via usb ?
02:40:55derfelyou should be able to get a converter shouldn't you?
02:40:58PsycoXulusb is hooked to a dedicated IDE controller
02:41:07PsycoXulwe can't do anything with it
02:42:05ricIIwell the isd-300 seems to have 10 general purpose io pins, couldn't they put to use?
02:42:37PsycoXulhmm first i've heard of that
02:42:40ricIII no little about usb/modern electronic..
02:42:41devZer0hey, no - i meant, usb-to-serial converter for the notebook, something like:
02:42:59PsycoXulthey're probably not wired to anything, but it's an interesting potential lead
02:43:28PsycoXuli also don't know much about it, zagor bagder and linus are the ones who understand all this stuff... heh
02:43:33ricIIPsycoXul it's in the datasheet...
02:44:02CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
02:44:02*ricII just dumm programmer
02:44:16PsycoXuli haven't payed any attention to the isd-300 myself, since my player's only got an isd-200 heh
02:44:35PsycoXuland i haven't even payed much attention to the isd-200
02:44:43PsycoXuli just go by what the main 3 rockbox guys say hehe
02:44:52*derfel has no idea about this stuff
02:45:02ricIIPsycoXul so no use for my specialy made 4x5 font...
02:45:22*derfel has NO idea what the isd-300 or the isd-200 are!
02:45:38ricIIusd-ata bridge
02:45:53PsycoXuldevZer0: ah yeah for ricII's laptop, he might be able to use that
02:46:24ricIIehh, usb to the harddrive..
02:47:00devZer0my notebook hasn`t serial, too. must be due to anti-legacy campaign of pc industry :D
02:48:16ricIII will have to ask linus about it, again I known little about these chips..
02:48:55derfelhey...another dumb question: do you have to program in C?
02:49:45ricIIderfel: well, you can always try directly ah1 asembly.
02:50:16derfelno thank you!
02:50:49PsycoXulwhat else would you program in
02:51:03PsycoXuli don't think C++ is appropriate for this type of device, afaik
02:51:18PsycoXuland um java is probably out of the question
02:51:25ricIIdon't say visual basic.... (please)
02:51:57PsycoXulindeed, please don't say visual basic
02:52:07derfelno VB..
02:52:14PsycoXulor BASIC for that matter
02:52:22MrSnazzThat's a bit thickheaded.
02:52:27ricIIforth could be an option
02:52:38PsycoXulah i dunno anything about forth
02:52:56PsycoXulMrSnazz: what is?
02:53:07ricIIposix, functions..
02:53:43PsycoXulhow about malbolge (sp?)
02:53:48MrSnazzPsycoXul: The attitude that basic isn't good for anything.
02:54:10derfelvb is good for prototyping
02:54:26PsycoXulMrSnazz: basic was good for my c64
02:54:30PsycoXulMrSnazz: i guess
02:54:33derfelthat too :-)
02:54:45devZer0guys, could you give some comments to my current posting at ? i made some suggestion for interface improvement some minutes ago
02:54:52ricIInot even.. I always used strings for my code...
02:56:09PsycoXuldevZer0: a few comments
02:56:17ricIIdevZer0: wait for my *verry* small font...
02:56:20PsycoXuldevZer0: for one thing players line is 11 chars
02:57:07devZer0pardon - thought it was 16 because the lcd-controller supports 16 chars per line
02:57:11PsycoXuldevZer0: for another thing, it wouldn't be necessary for the WHOLE line to be reversed, on players it would be sufficient for the first char to be, and is entirely possible
02:57:28devZer0yes - indeed
02:57:45PsycoXulwhich is something that i tried to get people to do months ago
02:57:49PsycoXuli do like the idea
02:58:15PsycoXulit'd have been especialy benificial on players given their more limited screen size
02:58:17devZer0ricII: do you have a preview of your font
02:58:41PsycoXul1 char isn't a big difference on the recorder, though i suppose every little bit counts.. but 1 char is a big difference on a player heh
02:58:42ricIIdevZer0: i could ..
02:59:01derfelok..thanks guys... have a great night!
02:59:14devZer0yes, you are right. chars are even MORE valuable on the Player
02:59:44PsycoXulindeed, this is something i would like to see implimented
02:59:52devZer0n8, as we say in germany :)
03:00:07devZer0shouldn`t be too hard.
03:00:14PsycoXulno, it shouldn't
03:00:16 Part derfel
03:00:20devZer0do you like "version 2", too ? (see pic)
03:00:37ricIIproportinal spaced
03:00:53PsycoXuli dunno
03:01:19PsycoXuli kinda like seeing the icons on all the files displayed, but then saving that char would be nice too i suppose
03:02:07PsycoXuli wish the developers were more keen to the idea of everything being configurable and giving people the option for switching between those 2 styles and such things like that hehe
03:02:32devZer0could be made an option "show icons on/off" and "show icons only on highlighted line"
03:02:53PsycoXulon/off/highlighted yeah
03:03:33PsycoXuli think even potentialy configurable things that they don't wanna waste UI space for should be configurable in a text file that has misc options
03:04:17PsycoXuli think they're already working towards having a file with some options and such, it seems to me like they might as well go all the way and let the people who want to put config for anything in there hehe
03:04:30devZer0ricII: thanks for your font - but i think i don`t like such small fonts. regardless how much effort is put on this fonts - they look ugly - all of them.
03:04:58ricIIdevZer0: it's nice in the text-viewer..
03:05:29devZer0ok, ric - you're right
03:05:51devZer0if i could configure a different font for the textviewer....
03:06:08PsycoXuli'm sick of you recorder owners and your snooty attitude :p
03:06:45ricIIthis is probly the smallest font readble..
03:07:36devZer0hey, PsycoXul - don`t worry ;)
03:08:15devZer0perhaps you do a reply to my posting, with your player-one-reverse-char suggestion...
03:08:30PsycoXulyeah once i get my cassiopeia be-300 on friday, i can be the snooty one :p
03:08:47devZer0how mach storage is there inside ?
03:08:48PsycoXulnow if only there was a way to hook up my archos to the be-300 so that i could have a color pda with a 20G harddrive.. mmmm
03:09:09PsycoXulthe be-300? it's only got 16mb heh
03:09:14devZer0doesnt cassiopeya have cf slot ?
03:09:16ricIIwhat with this malloc stuff ? is it gona be used?
03:09:18PsycoXuland the only spare compact flash card i've got is 8mb
03:09:46PsycoXulwe've got a 64mb one too but it gets used for the digicam so i can't go loading it up with crap and keeping it or anything heh
03:09:51devZer0arent there cf2usb adapters out there ?
03:10:03PsycoXulnot that i've seen
03:10:13ricIIcf is just mini pcmcia
03:10:18PsycoXulthe closest i've found is cf2pcmcia and some pcmcia usb cards
03:10:43PsycoXulthe thing about that is if there's any drivers for this thing's version of wince to support that
03:10:56PsycoXulif there is, or if somebody makes them, then that's probably the way to go
03:11:08PsycoXulanyway, dinner... bbl
03:11:16devZer0yes - this is possible, i think !
03:13:10ricIIwell I'm off to bed, just staying here to log..
03:13:27devZer0wish you well ! bye
03:14:21ricIIread some more of the code on my recorder ;)
03:14:57devZer0Psy: did you see Parachute III PC Card at ?
03:15:14devZer0pardon: PCMCIA to CF
03:15:26devZer0copied/pasted the wrong part
03:16:09devZer0there is also USB CF+ Card - but unfortunately it is slave, not master....
03:16:23devZer0i think it`s just a matter of time...
03:19:52devZer0mhhh : - but who cares ?
03:23:15devZer0 - unfortunately slave also. hey, this is interesting thing. if this exists i would think about extending my rockbox by a pda :DDD
03:33:38devZer0funy :)
03:37:38devZer0wooha: :)
03:38:00PsycoXulyeah once linux for this thing is up and working fully, it should be easy to make various stuff work
03:38:10devZer0perhaps, i should get one, too.
03:38:20devZer0or better buy a yopy
03:38:32PsycoXulat that last link you posted
03:38:43PsycoXullook at the 1st one under "20 recent Topics:"
03:39:33PsycoXulmy be-300's not even scheduled for delivery till friday, and i've already posted 6 background images for it on that site :p heh
03:40:57 Join mecraw_ [0] (
03:41:34PsycoXulbut yeah if it can be supported
03:41:52devZer0mhh - driver-developers are scarce :)
03:42:27PsycoXulone of those cf to pcmcia adapters plus pcmcia usb card would be nice
03:43:01PsycoXulthe biggest problem would be powering the archos to keep it going as a usb harddrive long enough to do much useful with it like watch a movie off it or whatever
03:44:14devZer0mhh - some adapter for external battery - but then you had three parts to carry... :)
03:44:27PsycoXulyeah i'd need one for the pda probably too
03:44:37devZer0could be the same one
03:44:53PsycoXulthe way i see it with this solution i'd have my army pants pockets filled with stuff :p
03:44:58devZer0just one with enough voltage - the rest could be done via power regulator
03:45:19devZer0better go and buy a sony vaio :D
03:45:34PsycoXulthe archos sucks batteries quick when it's running the HD constantly
03:45:55PsycoXulyeah but i already have an archos, already bought the be-300
03:46:06devZer0and vaio is expensive....
03:46:07PsycoXulyou can build some external battery packs for <$10 each
03:46:15devZer0and un-geeky :D
03:46:49PsycoXuli've seen on ebay the CF->PCMCIA converters go for about $15+S&H
03:47:03PsycoXuland the pcmcia usb adapters for like $23+S&H
03:47:29devZer0bought 4x2000mah NimH mignon for that price (~10$) some weeks ago
03:48:05devZer0the question is: would pcmcia type II CardBUS 32 Bit be compatible with Compact Flash Slot (16 Bit)
03:48:17devZer0do cardbus cards have 16 Bit compatibility mode ?
03:48:21PsycoXulall and all i'd be looking at $60 or so
03:48:27PsycoXuldevZer0: yeah i'm also wondering about that
03:48:57devZer0befor one can write driver, the electical/hardware questions should be solved :D
03:49:01PsycoXulthat could be the thing that shatters this dream :p
03:49:38devZer0nonooooo - just put a Cardbus to 16-bit PCMCIA Adaptor between. :D
03:49:49PsycoXuldo they make those?
03:49:52devZer0if such exists - it will be
03:49:55devZer0EXPENSIVE :D
03:50:40PsycoXul3 pda-sized devices, 3 cards sticking out of one, and a handful of wires running between them all
03:50:49PsycoXulsounds like a lot of fun
03:51:06PsycoXulmaybe 4 pda-sized things
03:51:18PsycoXulneed a lot of power capacity to keep that archos running
03:51:23devZer0but bad news:
03:51:27devZer0read that:
03:51:37devZer0System requirements:
03:51:37devZer0Window 98 compatible PC or notebook
03:51:37devZer0Any available CardBus slot [NOT ANY, Will NOT work in an Older 16 bit PCMCIA CardBus slot]
03:52:28PsycoXulheh yeah
03:52:43PsycoXuli guess the 16bit is actualy called "pc card" while the 32bit only is called "CardBus"
03:53:23PsycoXulso for this whole thing to work i'd need to find a 16-bit "pc card" usb adapter
03:53:31PsycoXulwhich i dunno if such a thing exists
03:54:50devZer0mhh. think pc card and cardbus is somewhat equivalent - 16 bit is usually called "pcmcia"
03:55:02devZer0not shure here
03:55:02PsycoXuli dunno
03:55:06PsycoXulthats what one site i read said
03:55:09PsycoXulbut you know how that stuff goes
03:55:33devZer0yes - difficult to keep with that....
03:56:28PsycoXulso it seems my best bet is just to wait for high-capacity CF cards to get cheap :/
03:57:12PsycoXulor get a CF wifi card and put stuff on a fast share
03:57:42PsycoXulthats a little less mobile though
03:57:47devZer0then you are not really mobile :D
03:58:55PsycoXulanyway, i only got it cause i wanted something to have instead of a pen and paper for notes and drawing etc
03:59:06PsycoXulwhen i saw i could get a color one for ~$100 i jumped on it
03:59:23PsycoXulit's just kinda too bad having something that can play movies but not enough storage on it to fit any
03:59:32devZer0yes thats a good price
04:00:54devZer0making a PCMCIA
04:00:54devZer0to USB adapter is a short term worth project <from a marketing sense>.
04:01:36devZer0usb host controllers are very very far from trivial
04:02:17devZer0phew - i stop here doing some research for this :)
04:03:10PsycoXullets look at other possibilities for hacking this kinda stuff together
04:03:29PsycoXulhow about modding the archos to support wireless networking somehow and use them together that way? hehe
04:04:06devZer0perhaps better open the casio, get some soldering iron and solder an interface to the processor directly :)
04:04:16PsycoXulhey, a little wireless access point that acts as a usb host and shares the usb-storage device it plugs into
04:04:31devZer0phew - this will be difficult.
04:05:22PsycoXuli'm sure it's possible, though it'd cost more to build it than it'd be worth probably heh
04:05:34devZer0yes - indeed.
04:05:50devZer0psy - i will have to leave. it`s gone very late
04:06:03PsycoXulbe cheaper just to buy a pocketpc that already can be a usb host
04:06:10PsycoXuli think i heard of one that does...
04:06:29PsycoXuldevZer0: ok, well thanks for your help in these ideas...
04:06:31PsycoXuldevZer0: goodnight
04:08:01devZer0no problem. had fun with that. CU.
04:08:30devZer0BTW: the "one that does" is a cassiopeia - pocket pc 2002
04:09:13devZer0bye :)
04:09:18 Part devZer0
04:12:11PsycoXulwow pretty nice...
04:12:29PsycoXulthey're only going for $200-$300 on ebay too
04:24:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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04:49:52 Quit hardeep ("[BX] Silly wabbit, BitchX is for kids!")
05:31:49 Nick seb-away is now known as _seb_ (
06:13:32 Join edx [0] (
06:14:15 Nick _seb_ is now known as seb-sleep (
06:19:11 Join hardeep [0] (hardeeps@
06:24:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:30:00 Quit hardeep ("[BX] Pretzel Boy uses BitchX. Shouldn't you?")
06:30:25 Join hardeep [0] (hardeeps@
06:37:16meshugaif you're going to snag a casiopedia
06:37:22meshugai would suggest the dell axim
06:37:37meshugawhich is made by.. wistron, the same ppl who made the casio ones
06:37:58meshugaand i thought CF had a usb card
06:47:52PsycoXulaxim's are more expensive
06:47:58PsycoXuli was aiming for <$100
06:48:07PsycoXuli went over a bit with the be-300
06:50:02PsycoXul [warning: nudity, even if it is CG :p]
06:50:17PsycoXulif you can look, what you think? i removed the background from her and put her in the forest there heh
06:50:21PsycoXulthats pda wallpaper size heh
07:00:43edxmorning everybody
07:01:57edxnice wallpaper :P
07:02:29PsycoXulhehe thanks
07:03:12edxi have the feeling that the original software still shows batteries half-full when rockbox shows they're empty... (?)
07:03:43PsycoXulbatteries are weird
07:03:46edxis the rockbox battery indicator more accurate?
07:03:49edxreally... :)
07:03:51PsycoXuli've been using the same set for about a year
07:03:57edxme too now
07:03:58PsycoXuland then they stopped holding a charge very well
07:04:03PsycoXulso i threw the other set in there
07:04:10PsycoXuland when i went to plug it in, my damn adapter broke
07:04:23edxwel I use both sets... one charging while i use the other at school ;)
07:04:57PsycoXulwell i got a new adapter at radioshack, but it was only 300ma and i didn't realize that wasn't enough
07:05:10PsycoXuli had it plugged in for like a day and a half and wondering why it wasn't getting charged fully :p
07:05:17PsycoXulso i took it back and got an 800ma one
07:05:46PsycoXulbut it still doesn't get past 5.7v while plugged in, in that little menu entry that shows the voltage
07:05:55PsycoXulwhile the old ones got to about 6v while plugged in and fully charged
07:07:06edxafaik the battery indicator of rockbox is never full when I plug in recently charged batteries
07:07:12edxbut the archos indicator is
07:08:03edxwell... rockbox does not do auto-shutdown (does it??!) so that wouldnt even be a problem if the indicator was wrong
07:08:26PsycoXulauto-shutdown on low power you mean?
07:08:30PsycoXulnot that i know of
07:08:38PsycoXulnot on players anyway, i dunno about recorders
07:08:48edxwhy would it.. as long as it isnt recording, nothing
07:08:54edx's supposed to happen
07:09:08edx(maybe during settings saving..)
07:11:26PsycoXulit is pretty annoying though that it just sits there with the harddrive clicking trying to spinup and failing when it's low on power heh
07:11:40PsycoXuli should update my build...
07:11:57PsycoXuli lost my /home partition, which contained my copy of the source tree, and i haven't bothered to update since heh
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08:45:38Bagderhey ho!
09:00:20hardeepheya badger!
09:04:24Bagderit certainly has been a few weeks of really low speed
09:05:35hardeeptis why they call them the holidays. :)
09:05:48Bagderit is? ;-)
09:35:59Bagderhardeep: btw, I would like to see your queue stuff committed, so that people can try it out in the daily builds
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09:36:54Bagderhey Z
09:36:59Zagor_hi there
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09:37:20Zagorback to the daily grind
09:43:05ZagorBagder: how many mails did you have after holidays? :)
09:43:27Bagderwaaaaayyyy many
09:44:05BagderI've receivied 1192 mails so far this year ;-)
09:44:49Bagdergot 6149 in december 2002
09:45:34Zagori had a lovely lady send me 250+ virus mails in the last week...
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09:45:48Bagdernice :-/
09:45:54Bagderhi matsl
09:47:01hardeepwelcome back :)
09:49:21Zagorit was a bit chilly cycling to work today :)
09:49:30BagderI figure
09:49:36Bagder-15 ?
09:49:48Zagornah, only -12
09:50:03hardeephehe, "only"
09:50:10Zagorbut I got to use the short cut, across the lake instead of around it :-)
09:50:22*Bagder laughs
09:50:47matsltriatlon next?
09:51:00Bagderthe winter version
09:51:05Zagormatsl: hopyfully not :)
09:51:07hardeepcycling, skating, skiing ?
09:51:43Zagorcycling, crackle-crackle-splash, swimming
10:04:06Bagderanother openssh exploit
10:10:09Zagorbut that is for old versions, right? 3.4 is 5 months old
10:10:37Bagderyes, 3.3 and earlier
10:24:49***No seen item changed, no save performed.
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11:01:58Zagorwho's got a player? don't we show the battery level during usb-connect?
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11:29:51matslZagor: I have a player (you know!) but haven't updated it lately. I might be able to swing that during the day. Interesting?
12:09:05Zagormatsl: yes. we have a couple of requests for that, but I was under the impression it's already added
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12:10:52matslI haven't seen it but as I said I haven't upgrade for a long time. I'll check it out.
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13:25:45kargatronback from the holidays? or something else?
13:39:48Zagorme? just back from a meeting
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15:00:01bobTHChi all!!!
15:00:31bobTHChappy new year to all rockboxer!!!
15:02:00kargatronand to you
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15:59:36kargatroncan someone remind me what program fixes the xing(?) header?
15:59:57kargatronthose vbr mp3s that give bad times in mp3 players - that's the problem, right?
16:00:10kargatronrockbox recently just tanks on all those
16:00:54Zagorit does? is that a filed bug?
16:02:50kargatronyes, and dunno
16:02:58kargatronjust noticed in the last month or so, and was gone much of that time
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16:08:12kargatronat least, those mp3s i have that are vbr and give me funky times in, say, winamp, - rockbox starts those, but tanks after the first buffer read after, it appears
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16:27:17elinenbeI want a gameboy advance emulator for the Archos
16:27:53bobTHCand neogeo pocket too!!!
16:28:14elinenbetoo few games for that system
16:29:14bobTHCbut the best fighting games on portable system (pocket king of figher)
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16:40:45wethionHey folks. I'm (still) working on getting an Archos Jukebox Studio 10 to function on my system. I've compiled kernel 2.5.45 with USB support for just about everything, to no avail. I'm really at my wits end. I'm just going to sit here for a couple of minutes and type out everything that I think may be of help in getting this thing working.
16:41:27wethionOS: Debian unstable Kernel: 2.5.45
16:41:54Hadakaso what happens when you plug the unit in?
16:42:09wethionhotplug is installed, but when I start it I get can't synthesize PCI events
16:42:38wethionHadaka: Nothing. The archos says USB active, but nothing appears in syslog.
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16:43:28Hadakawhat bout lsusb & friends? nothing there as well?
16:43:31wethionat the end of teh kernel compile I get : depmod: *** Unresolved symbols in /lib/modules/2.5.45/kernel/drivers/usb/storage/usb-storage.o depmod: ide_fix_driveid
16:43:50wethionHadaka: Ahah.. that's teh sort of info I need.. lemme check..
16:44:02BagderZagor: any news on the press-release work?
16:44:43wethionHadaka: do you know if there's a package for lsusb?
16:46:26Hadakawethion: usb-storage is _needed_ - if it doesn't work, nothing works
16:46:34Hadakausbutils is the lsusb package
16:46:53wethionThanks.. getting now.
16:47:25Hadakawethion: you need to go through your kernel compile again if you get depmod errors from usb-storage.o
16:47:52Zagorthat driveid error is a known bug in 2.5.x
16:48:02Zagorsilly bugger, too
16:48:51wethionZagor: Fsck.. I'll have to look for a patch now. Thrillsville.
16:49:08wethionZagor: do you know if there's a patch?
16:49:39Zagorwethion: yes there is. i'll look
16:50:37wethionZagor: am looking also.. Thanks everyone for their assistance.. this has beena trial.
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16:57:42Zagori have submitted fixes for this, but sometimes the kernel wheels grind slowly
16:58:25Bagderthey sure do
16:58:44Zagorwethion: do you have ide disk support in your kernel?
16:59:51wethionZagor: No, I'm running pure scsi, and I was told over on #debian that I didn't need it for USB drives.
17:00:32wethionthe ISD-200 acta as a bridge b/t USB abd ATA, so the system never sees that it's talking to an ATA drive.
17:00:52Zagorwethion: technically you don't, but currently you do. add CONFIG_IDE and your error should go away
17:00:58wethiondamn my typing is off today.
17:01:05wethionOk, *THANKS* so much.
17:02:18elinenbequick question for a linux guru out there...
17:03:03elinenbeif I want to set up a server and I want a second server set up as a backup server, how can I make all requests go to the first server until it goes down and then all requests go to the backup server.
17:04:03Bagderelinenbe: there are several solutions, but none is simply described on a few lines of IRC, afaik
17:04:22elinenbewell, we have a whole channel here! :)
17:04:42Hadakaelinenbe: look for fail-over
17:04:53Hadakaelinenbe: fail-over routing, fail-over servers, fail-over anything
17:05:06elinenbeok... I will check that out.
17:05:22elinenbeI was just put on a project here and I am not familiar with this territory
17:05:54elinenbeHadaka: is there such thing as a hardware fail-over router?
17:06:01Hadakaelinenbe: yes
17:06:21elinenbeHadaka: so, it seems like that may be the easiest solution.
17:07:26wethionelinenbe: If you are going to do that, then you may want to consider load balancing b/t the servers.. then if one fails the other gets the slack dumped in its lap.
17:08:33elinenbewell, there will never be much load at all. we are doing a web server here that will get about 100,000 hits a month
17:08:49Bagderload-balancing is a lot tricker than just fail-over
17:08:49elinenbe3,000 hits to a webserver per day is nothing
17:09:00elinenbeBagder: I agree with that.
17:11:21Zagormy homepage got ~2M hits last month, not counting rockbox...
17:12:22elinenbeZagor: you are just too popular
17:12:30elinenbewhat is the hitocunt of rockbox?
17:12:30Bagderthat darned appartment site ;-)
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17:13:16Zagorelinenbe: almost 3M hits dec 2002
17:13:37Bagderhits as in requests?
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17:13:57Zagoruh, no wrong. 750k hits in dec.
17:14:05Zagoryes. hit=request
17:15:20Zagor~90000 unique visitors in 2002. that's nice :-)
17:16:25Bagdernice number indeed
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17:17:49Zagori like the robot statistics. googlebot was last here 01:11 this morning. 7308 hits from them so far this year...
17:19:12Zagor1 hit from StarOffice :-)
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17:34:22wethionZagor: Hrm. to no avail on the ide_fix_driveid. I jsut searched the kernel bug tracker for ide_fix_driveid and got nothing in return. schisse. should I try 2.5.54? I'm out of ideas.
17:36:46wethionOh, shit I can't. >2.5.48 requires a version of the module utilities that is not in debian unstable yet, and I'd screw my upgrade path.
17:38:31Zagor_you mean CONFIG_IDE didn't help?
17:38:58wethionZagor_: Nope.. got the identical error. wanna see my .config?
17:39:16wethionI can post it on my page in 2 seconds.
17:39:16Zagor_no, sorry i have to go.
17:39:58wethionOk, cool. Thanks for your help though. at least I have a path I can follow.
17:41:18Zagor_yup. good luck!
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19:23:33Jet8810I left my archos on the airplane and bye bye
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19:25:05ken0_my friend left one on the bus (6GB) and the second one he bought (10GB) he left for a seocnd in the dining room
19:25:41Jet8810thats bad
19:26:01ken0_yeah... he now thinks that maybe god doesn't really want him to have an archos, so he's not sure if he should get another one :)
19:30:09hardeepJet8810: don't most airlines have some sort of a lost and found?
19:30:52Jet8810lol ken
19:30:57Jet8810dunno hardeep
19:31:00kargatrondoesn't work so well if it's stolen, but certainly he should ask :)
19:31:06Jet8810but if the cleaning people foudn an mp3 player, what are the chances they turn it in?
19:31:10hardeepthey scour the plane pretty well after someone leaves
19:31:49Jet8810and turn in stuff or keep it?
19:31:51hardeepan electronic device on a plane? it's likely reported frequently heh
19:32:12hardeepstill, doesn't hurt to call the airline
19:34:16Jet8810so which one of you is going to sell me a recorder cheap?> ;)
19:35:16kargatronthey're all cheap nowadays, aren't they?
19:35:38kargatrona used one is probably a bargain by now, not that i've looked...
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21:33:05strwdlecould someone give me some advice
21:34:18kargatronyou might have better luck asking something specific :)
21:34:28kargatronbut ok - eat well, exercise, listen to your mother
21:35:05strwdleI had the old 'part check hdd error'
21:35:10strwdleso I ran atapwd
21:35:13strwdleor whatever the program is called
21:35:23strwdlefollowed all the intrtuctions etc
21:35:28strwdlebut it didn't unlokc it
21:37:42kargatronunfamiliar with that error myself, sorry.
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21:42:35strwdlethere's a whole page on it on the site
21:42:42strwdleI think it's a common problem
21:42:50strwdleif I re-format it, would that solve it?
21:44:56kargatronreformatting is always an optimistic option, if data loss isn't an issue.
21:51:38strwdleit isn't really
21:51:44strwdlewill it run if the hdd is empty?
21:51:59strwdleor does it need files on it?
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22:04:39strwdleooargh, this is doing my head in!
22:05:16kargatronafter reformat, for rockbox you mean?
22:05:28kargatronyou need a .rockbox directory, and ajbrec.ajz in the root
22:05:42kargatronand mp3 if you want it to play anything :)
22:05:43strwdleooI can't reformat it by plugging it in using the usb?
22:05:50strwdleooI need to take the hdd out right?
22:05:58kargatronno, of course, thru usb
22:06:21strwdleoook, I've downloaded and installed the software from archos
22:06:48kargatronare you asking rockbox questions? i'm not sure what your situation is
22:06:53strwdleooshould it come up in my computer?
22:07:54kargatronah, so you're having trouble booting in the first place from the archos firmware? such that hooking up to USB doesn't show up, cuz it's not booting?
22:08:14strwdleooalthough is says usb active when I connect
22:08:31strwdleooshould I download the firmware?
22:08:49kargatronif you can't boot enough for usb to work, it's defective and needs replacement, i'd guess.
22:09:06kargatronotoh, i don't know enough about hardware problems to give reliable advice
22:09:14strwdleoocan't I get another hard disk?
22:09:31strwdleooit boots up so that win2k detects it
22:10:01kargatronthen try reformatting - if that's possible, might as well try
22:10:23strwdleoowill it boot up without the jukebox folder etc?
22:11:18strwdleoowho on here is better equipped to help me?
22:11:29kargatroni assume they'd be answering... :)
22:11:47kargatronarhos firmware will boot up with nothing, since it's in ROM
22:12:01kargatronthat's enough for the USB, if it boots
22:12:12kargatronthen reformat
22:12:22kargatronthen add rockbox etc
22:12:30kargatronthen see if error's gone
22:12:42strwdleoothing is, it detects the jukebox etc
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22:12:56strwdleoohow do I actually access the hdd?
22:13:03strwdleooshould it come up in my computer?
22:13:36kargatronwhat actually happens?
22:13:44strwdleoohmmm, well it detects the jukebox
22:13:51strwdleoobut nothing comes up in my computer
22:14:19strwdleooI'm sure it all works because I used the hadd in my laptop earlier
22:14:27kargatrontry 'scanning for hardware changes' from the device manager for kicks
22:14:36kargatronor maybe you don't have right usb drivers?
22:14:40strwdleoocould be
22:15:38strwdleoohmm the hard drive is whirring
22:16:20strwdleooI just let win2k install it all for me
22:16:23strwdleooauto detect etc
22:17:11kargatronusually works
22:17:54strwdleoou know in the system trat
22:18:00strwdleoothere is an icon with a hdd
22:18:03strwdleooand a green cross
22:18:21strwdleooif I hover over it, it says 'no drives detected'
22:18:36strwdleoobut yet it's installed all the drivers for the drive
22:19:07kargatronin 'cmd' window, what happens when you type 'E:' (or whatever the free drive letter is for the jb)?
22:19:31strwdleooit would be G:\ I think
22:20:48strwdleooshall I try coming on at a different time and seeing if anyone else here has any other ideas>
22:22:16kargatronyeah, or email the yahoo and rockbox groups, perhaps
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22:28:06wethion_Hey Folks. I've been trying to get my Archos jukebox studio to work on my linux system for a couple of days now. I've made some headway recently, like I've got the kernel to register USB. However, I still do not get any notices in syslog when I disconnect the USB connection. I need additional suggestions.
22:31:39 Quit strwdleoo ("Practice safe government. Use kingdoms.")
22:35:24devZer0wethion, what kernel do you have?
22:40:45wethion_devZer0: 2.4.20-k7
22:43:21devZer0usb 2.0 or 1.1 chipset ?
22:44:59wethion_devZer0: how do I tell?
22:45:26devZer0is it OnBoard ?
22:45:50devZer0which board?
22:46:03wethion_as in my motherboard?
22:46:28devZer0:) pardon. i meant "which motherboard model"
22:47:01devZer0do you have asus, gigabyte.... ?
22:47:41wethion_soyo k7v dragon plus..
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22:48:04devZer0one moment
22:48:07wethion_I'd forgotten who make it.. know the model, not the maker..
22:49:04devZer0it is the maker and the model, you mentioned :)
22:49:40wethion_Oh, I know. I had to get the box to see who make it. :)
22:50:04wethion_It appears that teh dragon + uses USB 2.0
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22:51:04wethion_whoops wrong board.
22:52:56devZer0no - it seems to have 1.1
22:53:07devZer0you should go buy addon card :) 1.1 sucks :)
22:53:26devZer0i damn bastard bought notebook with usb 1.1
22:55:48wethion_Bah, 1.1 it is.. however that should not prevent it from working afaik. I have this plugged into my girlfriend's windows system, and it worked right away.
22:56:35devZer0yes - jukebox works with 1.1 flawlessly
22:56:53wethion_and her system is close to 3 years old, a pentium II for cryin out loud.
22:56:58devZer0unfortunately i have no linux around here
22:57:13devZer0err, wait a minute.
22:57:27wethion_devZer0: I'm just so frustrated, three days for mucking about with this. Sure, I'll wait.
22:58:56devZer0hey - stupid electronics and electronics stuff isn`t worth being frustrated about :D
22:59:11devZer0have stopped that years ago :)
22:59:52devZer0i make it the other way: i expect things to fail and i`m happy, if it works, though :D
22:59:54wethion_something just occurred to me. Do I need the firmware from rockbox on there first? I'd think I would be able to at least *see* the bloody thing without the firmware.
23:00:29devZer0there is builtin firmware - nothing is needed on the hdd.
23:00:30wethion_devZer0: that's a very good perspective.
23:00:48devZer0you can even partition and reformat your archos hdd via usb
23:01:09devZer0it`s just a "dumb" device as every other usb mass storage
23:01:36wethion_that's what I thought.. then why can't I get it to work. Bleh.
23:02:06devZer0because linux usb support isnt that perfect at this moment
23:02:34devZer0or you have some hardware incompatibility. have seen such with an usb modem.
23:03:19devZer0but your board doesnt seem to be toooo old, so it shouldn`t. the isd300 (usb chipset in jukebox) is a nice piece of
23:04:24wethion_devZer0: did you say isd300??????
23:04:29wethion_are you sure it
23:04:37wethion_s isd300 and not isd200?
23:04:58devZer0do you have jukebox recorder 20 ?
23:05:48wethion_devZer0: no a jukebox studio 10.
23:06:15wethion_I already had a 4 hr digital recorder.
23:08:24devZer0you meant you recorded 4hrs with that?
23:09:49wethion_OH, no, when I purchased the archos, I could have gotten a recorder, however, I had a 4 hr voice recorder so I didn't need the fucntionality.
23:10:29devZer0mh, how much was jb studio cheaper ?
23:11:28wethion_close to 100.00 USD.
23:12:16devZer0ok, that is some difference.
23:13:27devZer0but you have just usb 1.1, smaller hdd, no graphical lcd display, haven`t you ?
23:16:52wethion_Heh, I was searchign for debian and archos studio on google, and got a transcript of this channel when I first was on here originally.
23:17:38devZer0think, this is the best archos support channel :)
23:19:11devZer0but dont expect tooo much from me - i`m not that linux usb expert.
23:19:19devZer0but perhaps i can help
23:27:14devZer0just booting linux inside vmware - never tried to mount my jukebox inside that...
23:33:15 Join shayes [0] (
23:33:16wethion_mmmmMMMmmm vmware nice.. full install?
23:33:30shayesCan anyone answer some questions for me?
23:33:45wethion_shayes: just ask.
23:33:55devZer0hey, shayes. that`s what this channel is for :)
23:34:46shayesI have a Recorder 20 and just downloaded version 1.4 of Rockbox. Reading the documentation on the Rockbox website it says that as of 11/12/02 the software has recorder capability. Where is it?
23:35:48devZer0try one of the daily builds
23:36:11shayesAre these things that you have to upload seperately?
23:37:58wethion_shayes: can't help you there, but if you've got a second, can you answer a question or two about getting the jukebox running on Linux?
23:38:19shayesI have no idea about Linux...sorry.
23:38:45wethion_what are you running your recorder on?
23:38:51devZer0call 1.4 an "official/stable release" - the daily builds are just made from the actual development source
23:39:18Hadakajust ask
23:39:24shayesDo you use a Recorder 20?
23:40:15wethion_shayes: no, a studio 10, however as far as I can tell, the underlying technology is the same as far as USB is concerned.
23:40:17Hadakayes, I have a recorder 20
23:40:20devZer0wethion, do you get any kernel message, that kernel recognizes usb chipset ?
23:40:30 Join mecraw__ [0] (~mecraw@
23:40:37wethion_devZer0: Yes.. on boot, the chipset is registered.
23:40:55 Quit mecraw_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:40:57Hadakawethion_: what does 'lsusb' say about the device?
23:40:58devZer0and a cat /proc/bus/usb/devices gives?
23:41:02wethion_I can post the dmesg readout.
23:41:05shayesHadaka - do you have recorder capability with your version of rockbox?
23:41:24wethion_from lsusb: cannot open /proc/bus/usb, No such file or directory (2)
23:41:38Hadakashayes: the 1.4 release doesn't have recording capability - you need to use a daily build or a bleeding edge firmware
23:41:52Hadakashayes: the next release will contain the recording functionality
23:42:24shayesHadaka - do you know what daily build I need?
23:42:25Hadakawethion_: you haven't compiled usb proc subsystem in your kernel - that's not fatal, but it hurts debugging atleast
23:42:30Hadakashayes: any, they all have it
23:42:41devZer0shayes: you can take a look on recording functionality when you install daily build from:
23:43:24shayesOK...also version 1.4 talks about trickle charging the batteries but I could find nothing about this in the software anywhere. What is the deal with this?
23:43:38devZer0wethion: what does lsmod give about usb ? usb-ohci, usb-uhci and such ???
23:43:45wethion_am going to get it now.
23:44:08Hadakashayes: version 1.4 doesn't have trickle charge either, it is more recent
23:44:23Hadakashayes: you are probably reading documentation from a later than 1.4 source
23:44:33shayesHadaka - when is that expected to be out?
23:44:43Hadakashayes: you can download a daily build right now
23:44:55shayeswith trickle charge included?
23:45:04Hadakashayes: yesyes, everything is in the latest daily builds
23:45:17shayesOK..let me check it out...brb
23:48:43wethion_fsck.. bbiab.
23:49:05devZer0ext2 ? :))
23:50:09 Quit edx ()
23:50:27shayesHadaka - do you just unzip that daily build directly to the Archos just like you were installing it for the first time?
23:51:21 Join mecraw_ [0] (~mecraw@
23:51:34Hadakashayes: you rename the whatever .ajz to ajbrec.ajz and put it in the root directory, just like normal rockbox installation
23:53:15shayesHadaka - OK...what are all the other files for then?
23:54:26Hadakashayes: what other files?
23:54:38Hadakahm, let's do this the simplest way
23:54:48shayesIn the daily build I downloaded there were over 200 files.
23:55:04Hadakashayes: you must've downloaded the source
23:55:16Hadakaanyway, let's do it this way:
23:55:32Hadakathere's a bleeding edge (or BE) build that contains all the latest code
23:55:41Hadakait gets updated every 20 minutes or something
23:55:59shayesHadaka - UH...I'm a dumbass...I downloaded the tarball...I guess that was the wrong one.
23:56:06Hadakathere is a slight possibility that that might have new bugs that haven't been discovered yet, but usually it's the best revision to run
23:56:15Hadakait contains recording, and it contains trickle charge
23:56:43devZer0...and works good (for me)
23:56:58shayesOK...what is the difference between the target builds and the bleeding edge builds?
23:58:11Hadakashayes: target builds are done every day, bleeding edge every 20 minutes
23:58:46shayesOK...thanks...let me see if this new file works.
23:58:59 Quit mecraw__ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))

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