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#rockbox log for 2003-01-24

00:00:43ricIIbecause playlist_get_resume_info() is only called from wps.c
00:02:19ricIII explicite save settings when I change used lenght the patches file (which is never truncated for fragemention)
00:07:03 Nick ricII is now known as ricII|pub (
00:07:12ricII|pubgetting a beer :)
00:08:13 Quit edx ()
00:09:52 Part elinenbe
00:10:48 Join sansa [0] (
00:11:30sansaHi all.
00:12:30 Join Guest [0] (
00:12:41 Part Guest
00:13:23sansaAnybody have problems with the buttons on their jukebox wearing out?
00:13:40 Join elinenbe_ [0] (
00:17:11kargatroni suppose i expect to have that problem at some point in the future, but not yet, so far.
00:17:20kargatronyou mean the contacts?
00:17:45sansaYeah, I think so... wevery once and awhile I've got to push kind of hard to get the + button to work.
00:18:02kargatronthe buttons are simple plastic overlays - if you lift the faceplate off, you might be able to see exactly where the problem is
00:18:24kargatron(eg. the real button underneath, vs misaligned plastic above)
00:19:09sansaCool... it worked fantastic when I first got it, about nine months ago.. the silver has worn off the plastic..
00:19:24 Quit elinenbe_ ("ChatZilla 0.8.11 [Mozilla rv:1.2.1/20021130]")
00:22:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:28:58 Join Darsh [0] (
00:37:44 Join Jet8810 [0] (
00:37:47Darshcan anyone here help me out?
00:39:26sansaThat depends on what you need help with.
00:39:47Darshok... i'm trying to get Rolo working
00:40:03Darshthe problem is, I can't see the .mod file from the archos
00:40:34kargatronhm, nnot sure about player stuff
00:40:41kargatronbut make sure file-view is set to 'all'
00:40:49Darshwheres that option?
00:40:51kargatronand the .mod files should then be visible, if there
00:40:54kargatronon the player, dunno
00:41:02Darshok tahnks... let me see if i can find it
00:41:06kargatronsomewhere in the menu
00:41:12kargatronunder general settings
00:41:35Darshoh wow
00:41:38Darshthat worked
00:41:46Darshi can see it now
00:41:53Darshlet me see if it'll work
00:44:10DarshI got an error.... to get it to work, i just need a blank .mod file, right?
00:45:19kargatronhm, i only ever rolo'ed to an archos update, never tried a blank to go to the ROM version
00:45:25kargatrondunno that either :)
00:45:44Darshthe archos update will create a .mod file for me?
00:46:38 Join elinenbe [0] (
00:46:48elinenbeI'm back!
00:47:22kargatronan archos update *is* a .mod file, which you would name like archos_blah.mod, and then play that.
00:47:40kargatronbut to get to original firmware that's on the ROM, i just don't happen to know
00:47:50Darshhmm... i just downloaded th latest, and its not a .mod... its a .ajz
00:49:00kargatronyou have player or recorder?
00:49:10Darshplayer... but nm, i just read i can rename it
00:49:13Darshlet me test this out
00:49:44Darshi need to have archos.mod (the rockbox one) in the root of the player, right?
00:49:52Darshbut the other(s) can be elsewhere?
00:51:56kargatronhm, i think so. clear in the docs, no? (i'm not looking atm)
00:52:17Darshi couldnt find much documentation on Rolo anywhere
00:52:24Darshjust one part of that FAQ
00:53:09*sansa is away: GF is pissed.
00:54:44Darshgot another question... how stable are the daily builds?
00:54:45 Quit elinenbe (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:57:23kargatronvery, typically
00:57:30kargatronmost here use them
00:57:53Darshhow often about do 1.#'s get released? is it relatively fast?
00:58:49Darshis it worth it to upgrade the daily builds every day? or should i just chill, and grab them every week or so?
00:59:18kargatronthe latter
00:59:33kargatronjust keep eye out for features you like
00:59:52kargatronno harm in sticking with a nice working daily, if more recent builds have nothing big added
01:00:02Darshtrue true
01:00:04kargatrone.g. i was on 12/28 for a long time, then just recently upgraded
01:00:38Darshhave you had or heard of any major problems using rockbox? i read about that thing with the drive being passworded.... is stuff like that common?
01:00:50Darshesp with daily builds?
01:01:24Darshthats good
01:01:32kargatronthose were probably special cases/situations.
01:01:39Darshi figured as much
01:03:08Darshyour not one of the devs, are you?
01:05:20kargatronpart-time feature request janitor, and full-time user :)
01:05:55Darshthe 1.4 zip contained a folder with a bunhch of languages, and system.wps.... the dail build doesnt
01:06:02Darshdo i need any of those
01:06:11Darsh(english language one i mean)
01:06:45kargatronyou're using rockbox now, right?
01:07:23kargatronyou should definitely go to a daily, i think, lots of new features
01:07:41kargatrontho i have a recorder, and don't keep track of player features
01:07:42Darshyesterday's allright? or is there a oldfer one youd recommend?
01:07:48Darshhaha ok
01:08:36Darshi dont need english.lng? it will automatically be english?
01:09:14Darshand the system.wps, thats something for the display, right?
01:09:40kargatronthe default one - perhaps the file is for an example
01:09:52Darshok... is it hard to make your own?
01:10:18kargatrontext editor
01:10:37kargatronthere's a page on it on the site, under docs
01:11:01Darshright, but is it complicated to make one?
01:11:38kargatronto get exactly what you want, maybe.
01:11:44kargatrondepends on your preference
01:12:03kargatronmines kinda complicated, but gives me what i want. but i have many lines to play with on recorder - player's only two
01:12:49Darshyeah true
01:12:57Darshi kinda wish i had known abot that before hand
01:12:58Darshoh well
01:13:19Darshi also kinda wish i had gotten the mpeg player one ;)
01:15:43kargatronno rockbox for that one
01:16:13Darshtrue, but video and color ;)
01:16:53Darshhmm it looks simpler then i thought
01:18:55Darshtahnks for all your help man, i gotta go, might be back later if i need more help :)
01:19:02 Part Darsh ("Client Exiting")
01:23:29 Join elinenbe_ [0] (
01:25:01adi|workIs Jason Clark here
01:25:49 Quit mecraw (Remote closed the connection)
01:26:13*sansa is back (gone 00:33:03)
01:30:36 Quit sansa ("Woo Hoo Build is done time to play!")
01:32:09 Quit kargatron ("Suckers!")
01:42:02 Join diddystar5 [0] (
01:43:51diddystar5how do iuse the chip8 games? do i edit the makefile? im am using cygwin
01:45:38 Quit diddystar5 (Client Quit)
01:55:17 Nick seb-away is now known as _seb_ (
02:14:10PsycoXuland then there's ton's of molds and jellies in the room they're coming from
02:22:11 Join Simeon [0] (
02:22:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:32:20 Quit elinenbe_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:36:18SimeonHello. I purchased a FM Recorder tonight, and so far have been unsuccessful in getting any of your builds to boot .... does it boot yet? :)
02:36:54Nibblerthink so, but im not sure
02:36:54Simeonwith the newest build, i see the Rockbox logo flash, and then the device immediately shuts down.
02:37:49Nibbleri think i heard ppl talking bout them using rockbox on FM, but as i am a n00b myself....
02:38:00Simeonhm... heh :)
02:38:33Jet8810is there any difference between the Music Match that comes with Archos MP3s and the Music Match that is free on their website?
02:39:10Nibblerwhat is music match used for?
02:39:46Jet8810play mp3s/rip/make playlists
02:41:32Nibblerill install it too tehn, maybe its better than the old audio catalyst i use...
02:42:32Jet8810its awesome
02:42:39Nibbleris it?
02:42:44Jet8810I think so
02:42:46Jet8810default mp3 player now
02:42:49Jet8810bye bye winamp
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02:50:17Jet8810I wonder if a music match liscnese allows for unlimited installations on pcs in one home legally
02:50:20Darshi have another question
02:50:23Jet8810software allows it but dont want to steal
02:50:46Darshwhen i upgrade to a new daily build, my settings get reset?
02:51:01NibblerDarsh: maybe, depends on the changes in the build
02:51:15 Nick ricII|pub is now known as ricII (
02:51:16Darshthank you
02:52:10Jet8810heh yea
02:52:15Jet8810thats why I dont get new daily builds anymore
02:52:19Jet8810I change every few weeks
02:59:03Darshit says if i make a custom .wps, and then run it, it will continue to be used
02:59:14Darshit also says i have to put it in .rockbox to have it load when i start
02:59:22Nibblerwhere do i find the key for my musicmatch? :|
02:59:29Darshthat's kinda contradictory
03:03:34Darshis there a bug with yesterdayd build? itr says my HD is completely empty
03:03:39Darshwhcih is false
03:03:43Darshits like 4 gigs full
03:07:19Darshhmm nevermind i found a bug report about it
03:11:23Nibblerwhere on the CD/recorder/box/manual is the key for musicmatch?
03:14:59Jet8810lol Nibbler
03:15:01Jet8810see that paper case thing?
03:15:03Jet8810look on the back
03:15:07Jet8810the case thing the cd is in
03:15:17*Nibbler goes trashdiving
03:15:28Simeondamn ... just made my first recording
03:15:43Simeonsounds ... horrible. i hope i just chose something bad to record.
03:15:55Jet8810you need a mic to record though right?
03:15:59Jet8810or is there a mic on the recorder
03:16:04Simeonno, i have my own mic
03:16:06Nibblerthere is build in mic
03:16:09Simeonsounds great on my MD recorder
03:16:15Simeonsounded like crap on what i just recorded
03:32:00Simeonwow ... what a terrible disappointment
03:32:00 Quit Nibbler (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
03:32:33Simeonnot only does the unit itself produce a TON of noise when monitoring, but it's analog line seems to be horrendously bad ...
03:32:43SimeonI hope they take this thing back tommorow...
03:33:43Simeoni was hoping i had finally found something that'd allow me to make good digital recordings
03:33:57Simeonand not be limited by minidiscs suckage
03:33:58ricIIa MD recorder?
03:34:33Simeonyeah, Sony MZ-R700
03:35:01ricIIOh you mean the archos record capabilities...
03:35:16Simeonwith a nice microphone
03:35:28Simeonside-by-side comparison with my md recorder
03:35:34Simeonit gets blown away
03:35:56ricIIwell what did you expect...
03:36:23Simeonit to make good recordings? ... is that too much to expect?
03:36:44ricII160kb mp3 ???
03:37:18Simeoni don't think that's the issue.
03:37:42Simeonjust side by side monitoring before i actually record, there's a huge difference
03:39:11ricIIto me is the archos is a great toy, a protable hd which happens to play mp3...
03:40:25Simeonunfortunately, that's not what i was looking for
03:40:35Simeoni'm a professional who makes field recordings
03:40:46ricIInothing serious compared to e.g. class A tube amp..
03:41:31ricIIportable DAT recorder is what you need..
03:42:02Simeonheh ... well ... professional-minded hobbyist :)
03:42:17ricIIa/d converters are much better..
03:42:38Simeon160k VBR + 20 Gig Drive would be great ....
03:43:24ricIIusing digital in is probly much better...
03:43:43Simeonunfortunately i don't have a digital mic :)
03:44:15ricIIfor rockbox is the fun part..
03:44:33ricIIinsert "me: ...
03:46:20ricIIcould you image having a g4@667mhz laptop and not be able to play dvd smootly.
03:47:01ricIIbeen reality to me for more than a year... (just because I refuse to use crapos)
03:49:29ricIIbecause of the archos I had to recode all my ogg's to mp3 :(
03:49:44PsycoXulricII: yeah i hate that
03:50:01PsycoXuli wish it played ogg or that i could hook it up as storage for my pda
03:50:32ricIIogg won't be posible :(
03:51:52ricIIPsycoXul: the archos has a serial port...
03:52:25PsycoXulwell 20G doesn't do you much good accessing it through 9600bps
03:52:54PsycoXulmy pda can play ogg, divx, mpeg, etc
03:53:04ricIIlucky you..
03:53:06PsycoXulbut serial port's too slow for that
03:54:16ricIIwell my lap can do lot of things (out preforming most) but it not as protable as the archos :(
03:55:22ricIIit even has a bigger screen then my TV :( (14" tv)
03:56:32ricIIbut I laid my eye on a 22" digital screen :) tv-cards are cheap..
04:01:28ricIImy pda still works for me mc218 (formaly known as psion mx5)
04:02:08PsycoXulmine's a cassiopeia be-300
04:02:17ricII128mb cfcard..
04:03:06PsycoXuli've got an 8mb heh
04:03:13PsycoXulthe one that came with my parents' digital camera
04:03:39PsycoXuli'll probably get a 256mb
04:03:44PsycoXulor bigger if i get a good deal
04:04:16ricIIstole it from my gf (she has 1g cfdrive for her nikon)
04:05:03PsycoXulbeing able to play divx's, i don't really wanna spend so much money on something <1G
04:05:28PsycoXulbut i gotta remember i only got it for taking notes and having a dictionary and such type of stuff anyway
04:06:16ricIII use it as timetracking tool / agenda
04:06:36PsycoXuloh yeah
04:06:43PsycoXuli use it to remind me of stuff too
04:06:51ricIIi sould be able to email use ir phone etc..
04:07:09PsycoXulmine doesn't have ir
04:07:58ricIIsuperseeded by bluetooth anyways now..
04:08:40ricIIbut I could use it to control the tv (if it had a remote)
04:11:48 Nick ricII is now known as ricII|Sleep (
04:23:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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05:07:47 Quit hardeep ("BitchX: stays crunchy in milk!")
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06:09:58Darshare there any other programs like Rockbox
06:09:58 Quit Nibbler (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
06:10:09Darsh(just outtta curisty, very happy with it as is)
06:11:05adi|workin what sense?
06:11:18adi|workfirmware replacements 4 the archos?
06:15:01elinenbe|sleepadi|work: you know how to use patch?
06:15:22adi|worka little.. whats up?
06:15:26adi|workDarsh: not that i know of
06:15:32elinenbe|sleepadi|work: I know how to use it, but that latest patch on the mailing list, I can not get to use.
06:15:45Darshok thats what i figured
06:15:45elinenbe|sleepusually it is "patch -p0 -i patch_file"
06:15:46adi|workahh.. i don't play with mailing list patches :)
06:15:54adi|workyour welcome darsh
06:15:54elinenbe|sleepoh... okay
06:17:15elinenbe|sleepwell, I think my retartedness is on.
06:22:34adi|workof course it is.. your hanging out here :)
06:22:38adi|workokay.. time to head home
06:23:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:23:23Darshadi|work: your a dev?
06:26:15 Quit Darsh ("Client Exiting")
06:26:55 Join Guest [0] (
06:29:38GuestHi I broke my LCD display on a 5000 archos I was wondering if anyone knows a source for a replacment?
06:30:04adi|workyeah darsh
06:30:12adi|workim a bit behind on doing anything, but yuppers
06:30:16adi|worki maintain the FAQ
06:30:35adi|workand um.. was one of the ppl that made tetris playable
06:30:42adi|workand several of the icons are mine
06:30:47adi|workand other minor fixes
06:30:51adi|workthats about it right now :)
06:32:02 Join elinenbe_ [0] (
06:32:06*adi|work is away: driving home msg adi|home if you need me
06:32:27*adi|work is away: driving home msg adi|home if you need me
06:32:41*adi|work is away: [driving home msg adi|home if you need me]
06:32:45adi|workfuck it
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06:36:20 Quit Guest ("Leaving")
07:08:34 Join tantus [0] (
07:09:43tantushey y'all. anyone awake?
07:11:53adi|homei am
07:12:45tantusI think I just answered my question. I couldnt find how to record using rockbox.. but I think I need to download a newer set of files
07:13:19adi|homewhat version are you running
07:14:36adi|homethats why
07:14:38tantusI was all excited to use the thing at a music session I play in and I couldnt find 'record' heh.
07:14:50adi|homeif you read the release notes on 1.4 you will not see recording listed
07:14:51tantuswill a daily build be safe?
07:15:03adi|homedefine 'safe' :)
07:15:27tantus'safe enough'
07:16:00adi|homewell.. it shouldn't crash your unit
07:16:08adi|homebut expect some features to be buggy
07:16:21adi|homenamely anything that was/isnt' in 1.4
07:16:28adi|homebut i use the daily build everyday
07:16:34adi|homewell.. bleeding edge actually
07:16:39 Join Nibbler [0] (
07:16:41adi|home<- is a developer :)
07:17:01tantushey, you guys have a nice piece of software going, I'm impressed
07:17:14adi|homethank you
07:17:19adi|homebut there are _alot_ of ppl
07:17:24adi|homejust look at the credits list :)
07:17:25tantusI saw
07:17:32adi|homeso you saw rockbox on someone else's unit huh?
07:17:34tantusthats why I said you guys
07:17:53adi|homeand praise is always accepted btw ;)
07:17:54tantusadi|home: nope, just ran across the website when I was looking for the linux driver
07:18:08adi|homeyeah.. that how i got involved at the very starrt
07:18:19adi|homefirst month i was dieing to help, but it was all low level device stuff...
07:18:31adi|home i couldn't do anything till the simulator was working :)
07:18:54adi|homei take it your on linux?
07:18:56tantusI would be dying to help, but all I know is hello world in C
07:18:59adi|homedoh.. nm
07:19:02adi|hometired.. missread
07:19:11adi|homebah.. thats okay
07:19:16adi|homeyou can help with documentation
07:19:23adi|homeor keeping the feature list/bug list clean
07:19:27adi|homestuff like that
07:19:34adi|homeor just hang here and answer questions
07:19:40adi|homeor submit bug reports
07:19:48adi|homeor send me a beautiful naked blond
07:19:51adi|homewoman that is
07:19:52tantusI'm going to mess around with it more first, but I'm falling in love with the thing.
07:20:25tantusheh, the internet is full of porn
07:22:04adi|homebut there is plenty for non coders to do :)O
07:22:18tantusI might take you up on that in the future
07:22:27adi|homejust public relations to get more converts is huge :)
07:23:09tantusa quick question, what brand of laptop harddrive is best for swapping, in terms of shock resistance and so forth?
07:23:33adi|homethat i have no idea about
07:23:44adi|homeif you want, post it to the maillist that you are looking for suggestions
07:23:47tantusI want to put a 40 gigger in there :)
07:23:48adi|homesomeone is bound to answer
07:25:46tantusI'll probably be dropping in here from time to time though
07:28:34tantusanother quick question, can you tell battery status when it is plugged into usb? also, does it charge via usb at all?
07:44:24 Join dwihno [0] (dwihno@
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07:47:15tantushmm, daily builds dont seem to work
07:48:05dwihnotantus: what target?
07:49:09tantusit justs boots to the normal os
07:50:02tantus1.4 works though
07:50:58tantususing the last two daily builds...
07:51:24dwihnoI got a copy of the bleeding edge last night which worked flawlessly, and there has been no changes since.
07:52:44tantusI think its working now, for some reason.
07:52:56 Quit czarnoff (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
07:53:17tantusor not...
07:53:28tantusstill booting 1.4
07:56:07dwihnoMake sure the filenames are correct
07:56:25dwihnoWhich _must_ be ajbrec.ajz
07:57:29tantusI did, it's not loading
07:57:33tantus1.4 loads fine though
07:58:01tantusI turned it off, unplugged usb, turned it back on and it boots the original os
08:00:24dwihnoTry the bleeding edge
08:01:14dwihnoWhat OS do you use?
08:01:25dwihnoRemember to use the "safe removal of device" thing, if you use Wintendo
08:02:06tantusI'm a linux user..
08:02:45tantusthe file shows as there, but doesnt boot..
08:03:25dwihnoHow did you download the file?
08:05:55dwihnoDid you "save link as" ?
08:06:07tantusok, I got it to work for some reason
08:06:55tantusI was copying as root the first time, other time I copied as a normal user
08:13:20tantusthanks for the suggestions though
08:13:46dwihnoHow did you mount it?
08:14:32tantusmounted it as root and copied the file as a normal user
08:14:52tantusI have it set up in fstab so that any user can access the mount point
08:19:28dwihnoah, okay.
08:19:37dwihnoIncluding overwriting?
08:20:00tantusit should.
08:23:00adi|hometantus.. to anwer you questions: no we don't charge via usb
08:23:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:23:23adi|homeand i beleive there that there was recently a status bar added to the usb screen so you can see the battery when on usb
08:23:42tantusadi|home: I just saw :) got bleeding edge to finally work
08:24:01adi|homewooo hoo
08:32:34 Join matsl [0] (
08:49:33*dwihno has noticed some new bugs since the scroll fixing
09:11:07adi|homeyeah? like what?
09:21:55dwihnoMy WPS is bugging
09:22:09dwihnoMoving around makes .mp3 files show the extension after "unselecting" them
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09:53:33quelsarukcold morning to all
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09:57:57quel|outtime to work
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10:23:20adi|homebagder did you follow that key lock buisness feature request?
10:23:36Bagderonly slightly
10:24:13adi|homeokay... long and short of it was that it sounded _alot_ like the password protect feature someone wanted long ago, so i rejected it, but didn't close it
10:25:13Zagoradi|home: on the other hand, people who don't know about the usb access
10:25:30Zagormight actually be stopped by a Rockbox pin lock
10:25:44adi|homeright, but its a completely useless function
10:25:56adi|homethe argument of 'so i can leave my unit unattended' doesn't stand up
10:26:06adi|homeits not like having to shutdown a laptop and carry it around
10:26:11ZagorI agree
10:26:44adi|homei agree with you that they may not know about the usb buisness (or even have the correct cable)
10:27:06ZagorBagder: have you made a page about the build status web page yet? I get requests about it every now and then.
10:27:21adi|homebuild status?
10:27:36Zagoryeah, the red/green table
10:27:48Bagderno, only for the recent-changes-on-cvs stuff
10:27:55adi|homeahh.. okay...
10:28:01*adi|home is away: sleep
10:28:41BagderZagor: you may direct them to me, the scripts are really very specific for rockbox and not very general-purpose
10:28:52ZagorBagder: ok, i'll forward the mails I get
10:33:05Bagderbtw, I'm voting for a feature-freeze soonish
10:33:14Bagderwe need a 2.0
10:33:52ZagorMT, are you there?
10:34:26ZagorBagder: we should just polish the recording GUI a bit. will you have any time for that today?
10:34:34matslZagor: the pin lock you talked about. Is that considered useless?
10:34:43*dwihno nags about the bugging scroll ;-)
10:34:53BagderZagor: not today, I'll focus on getting some new graphics bugs corrected
10:35:05Bagderdwihno: you tried the very latest?
10:35:09Bagderand it still bugs?
10:35:32dwihnoBagder: I will test, but the CVS changes does not indicate anything that might have fixed the bugginess.
10:35:36dwihnoI'll test however.
10:35:46Bagderyou just don't read the comments good enough ;-)
10:35:56Zagordwihno: much is fixed
10:35:58Bagderand my mail explained reasons
10:38:11Bagderalthough some new bugs appeared ;-/
10:39:16Zagordwihno: the twiching was probably a double-scroll. and those are fixed.
10:39:28adi|homematsl no i did
10:39:45adi|homezagor didn't say what he thought about it ;)
10:40:15BagderZagor: I believe that the fact that lcd_stop_scroll() previously refreshed the screen and now it doesn't, make some errors appear that was hidden before
10:40:46ZagorBagder: do you plan to fix the frequent status/clock update?
10:41:06Bagderyes, but first I'll correct the normal browsing bugs
10:41:31Bagderjust walking up and down in the dir browser bugs
10:43:06matsladi|home: Just by describing it as a pin lock indicated to me that it might infact not be considered useless.
10:43:32adi|homeright.. but how do you 'lock
10:43:40adi|homea unti that can 'walk away' easily?>
10:43:48adi|homei just don't get the point of it
10:44:23adi|homehmmm make for bleeding edge
10:44:27dwihnoZagor: First bug. I choose show files: music in F2. After "unselecting" a file, the old selection will also show file extension
10:44:38adi|homewe really need to stop it from running through the dependancies when you run make clean
10:44:41adi|homeseems pointless
10:45:29BagderI agree ;-)
10:45:49adi|homeim just not sure how to prevent it from being called
10:47:14matsladi|home: a pin lock wouldn't protect agains theft but it would protect you from your 5 year old that just seen how to turn the unit on from doing bad things to it. That sort of protection.
10:47:53Schnuefffailed to enter pin resulting in 'read-only mode' could also be nice
10:48:14Schnueffso you can take the thing to a party and avoid people deleting something
10:48:26adi|homeid be more worried about a 5 year old dropping or breaking the unit then deleting files
10:48:39adi|homebut... ill fall back on the old 'show me the code'
10:49:44dwihnoZagor: acknowlegde, s'il vous plait
10:50:19matsladi|home: I was more thinking in terms of rejecting it not because is is "useless" but "not that usefull" ;-)
10:50:53adi|homei refuse to be a packrat
10:51:08adi|homeanything not of immediate use or importance is best ignored ;)
10:51:31adi|homewhich would explain why my gf is always mad at me when its kernel compile time
10:51:47Schnueffnever touch a rocking system :)
10:53:41Zagordwihno: ACK
10:54:02Zagorlooks pretty funny :-)
10:54:41Zagorbtw, on returning from the filter selection the cursor should stay on the same file. as it does when renaming/deleting
10:55:08dwihnoZagor: My WPS also looks funny, I'll try checking some more
10:55:24Zagorit does? my wps looks good
10:57:24Bagderthat dir browser thing is my fault
10:57:25dwihnoIt glitches (well, it glitched last night)
10:57:41dwihnoBlinking scroll! :D
10:58:04dwihnoit should display (root)
10:58:42dwihnoInstead, it scrolls the current pwd (blinking)
10:58:48dwihnoIt's a conditional WPS
11:00:02dwihnoWant a copy
11:00:30dwihnoIt used to work perfectly earler (but with the twitching)
11:02:28Zagortalk to bagder, he's fixing the display code
11:03:25Bagderand I say hold your horses, fixes are pending
11:03:35*Zagor is holding his horse
11:04:48BagderI vote for removal of that newline-on-semicolon stuff from rockbox-style.el
11:04:58Bagderit annoys me a lot
11:05:12Zagorwhoa, me too. even though I've never even tried it. :-)
11:05:41Schnueffgood for for(;;) ? :)
11:06:20dwihnoHold your horses tonight (E-type) :-)
11:06:31Bagdermatsl: what is it that makes that behavior?
11:06:35dwihnoZagor: E-type will go to Skellefteċ in february!
11:06:45Zagordwihno: fun for him :-)
11:07:26matslBagder: whops. Don't you like Emacs editing for you ;-)
11:07:35Bagdernopes ;-)
11:08:14matslBagder: I guess you don't like the auto-hungry and clean-up things then.
11:08:46Bagderwhat do they do?
11:08:52matslBagder: I kept them just to see what you'd think of it.
11:09:00matslBagder: auto hungry?
11:09:19Bagderah, is that the newline thingie?
11:10:33matslBagder: well there are many things that I have activated. I'm not completely sure about the names. I'll have too check some Emacs docs use the right terms.
11:10:50matsl'to use'
11:11:27dwihnoauto hungry :)
11:11:31*dwihno is auto hungry
11:12:19Bagdernow I know what you mean
11:12:22Bagderits terrible
11:12:42Bagderwhen I write 'else {' on a line below the '}', it MOVES the else to the previous line
11:13:02*Bagder is a whiner
11:13:27matslok. there are two things. auto and hungry. auto does things automatic. hungry deletes a little bit more than the next space. (Intelligently ;-)
11:14:34matslBagder: see the comment " We like auto-newline and hungry-delete" in rockbox-style.el
11:14:41dwihnoHungry delete! :-)
11:14:52dwihnoEmacs will do the editing for you :)
11:15:33matslBagder: the cleanups do things like line up "} else {" if on multiple lines.
11:15:46Bagderand dislike that style ;-)
11:15:55Zagormatsl: "} else { " is just plain wrong
11:16:26Zagoror at least I don't like it ;-)
11:17:05Zagorit tends to suggest the use of "} else if (x) {" which *is* plain wrong
11:17:10matslBagder: I's easy to fix. Just comment out a few lines if that is what you feel like. (I just wanted to show you what I like ;-)
11:17:38BagderI tried to c-toggle-auto-hungry-state in my buffer but I couldn't see any change ?
11:17:43Zagordwihno: now I see the blinking scroll too
11:17:52BagderI'll test around
11:17:59matslZagor: Not always but don't start a formating war.
11:18:23Zagormatsl: else and if on the same line *is* wrong. it corrupts indentation
11:18:27matslBagder: Are you sure.
11:18:48Zagormakes consecutive ifs look like a switch
11:19:05 Quit quel|out (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
11:19:07matslZagor: I can show you a case when I like it. But should we take it here?
11:19:11Zagorit should be "} else { if (x) {"
11:19:23Zagorin which case you can see why it shouldn't be on the same line
11:19:45matslZagor: OK. You asked for it. Not if it is case switch.
11:19:56Zagor"this parrot is dead. Noooo, he's pining!"
11:20:16*Zagor reached a Python scetch in The Big Shuffle
11:20:32dwihnoZagor: Funky, huh? :-)
11:20:47dwihnoYay for blinking scrollers :D
11:20:52Zagormatsl case != else
11:21:51Zagormatsl: that's my point exactly. cases should be right under each other precisely to indicate they are separated. if/else should indent progressively to indicate you are actually executing all of them to reach a certain segment of code
11:21:54matslsometimes you would like to use a case but you can't because ot the expression involved. Then else if is good.
11:22:16Zagorbut wrong. it hides the true nature of the code
11:23:00*matsl stryck by a "true nature" argument
11:23:14*matsl struck by a "true nature" argument
11:23:21Zagordon't suppress the code's free will! ;)
11:23:39matslYMMW, ha!
11:23:39Zagors/true nature/actual call sequence/
11:25:01matslZagor: too much C coding. Never have side effects in a test!
11:26:29matslZagor: Shall we get back to business? I'll check in a new rockbox-style.el with the fancy auto stuff removed. ok?
11:26:46Bagderyes please
11:26:50Bagderit makes things much better!
11:27:04Zagorgo go go :-)
11:27:39matslBagder: I'll even remove it completely so that no one ever will by mistake learn that the features are there!
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11:29:40matslBagder: rockbox-style.el updated. Try it.
11:30:14matslZagor: I would like to remove all use of rockbox-mode.el in firmware. ok?
11:30:50Bagdergo go go ;-)
11:32:19matslIt will cause a lot of files to be edited.
11:32:41matslBut it would probably not create many conflicts.
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11:58:58Bagderdir browser fixed now
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12:05:05matslBagder: Any policy about deleteing files. (I'm about to delete rockbox-mode.el from CVS)
12:05:20 Nick Zagor|lunch is now known as Zagor (
12:05:55matslZagor: Any policy about deleteing files. (I'm about to delete rockbox-mode.el from CVS)
12:05:59Bagdernot really, just delete it
12:06:07Zagorkill kill kill :)
12:06:12matsljust as I thought!
12:06:20Bagderisn't chanserv really weird today
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12:33:14adi|homehehe i got my snow hack to work :)
12:33:26adi|homewe can now increase and decrease the amount of snow falling :)
12:35:20Zagoroooh, i've really been waiting for that :*)
12:35:30adi|homedon't make me hit you :)
12:35:43adi|homeim just happy to have my usb and cross compiler and box in general working :)
12:35:50adi|homei need to get back into the swing of things
12:37:04adi|homehehehe funny to see 2 flakes on the screen
12:37:12adi|homecause god knows this room is full of them
12:37:19*adi|home grins and heads off to bed
12:38:15*Bagder throws a pillow after adi|home
12:39:38*Bagder runs for lunch
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13:20:43holgerany1 alive?
13:21:34 Join langhaarrocker [0] (
13:23:02holgeri just tried a little bit to implement "remote works if keyboard is locked"
13:23:21holgerbut its a mess in the sources.... :-)
13:23:33langhaarrockersomething strange happened: I left home without my jukebox.
13:24:02kargatronthat's just twisted
13:24:17Zagorholger: yes, we need to make a redesign in wps.c. that's why it hasn't been done yet.
13:24:28Zagorlanghaarrocker: are you nuts!? ;)
13:24:28 Quit ken0 ("zZz")
13:24:46kargatrongame over, man - just kill yourself, langhaarrocker
13:24:50langhaarrockernuts. I actually do have nuts in my pocket!
13:25:31kargatroncrazies like langhaarrocker can't hear the jb over the voices in their head anyway
13:26:07langhaarrockerHere you see an advantage of irc -> no inteference with internal voices :)
13:27:03holgerhmmm. Zagor, my simple idea was to add a flag into the queue-pushing that indicates, where the key comes from..
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13:28:55internal_voicelanghaarrocker: whoaohahaha
13:29:16 Quit internal_voice (Client Quit)
13:29:25*langhaarrocker turns around in horror
13:31:05Zagorholger: that is the easy part
13:32:16langhaarrockerI hope there's nothing going on about reprogramming all the switch(button) thingies?
13:33:53langhaarrockerJust because that would become a hell of a job which would become necessary when going user definable key schemes...
13:35:05tantusfilling this thing up at usb1.1 speed is an arduous task, especially when half the collection is on CD
13:35:07Zagoryeah, but key schemes means a lot more work than just the button switches
13:35:47kargatroncan we skip key schemes and go right to mind-jacks?
13:35:50langhaarrockerThe rest of the work I have done by 85,4% already. Just need some time and some help with makefiles...
13:36:37kargatronlanghaarrocker, is that percentage verified by an objective external source? :)
13:36:53langhaarrockerno, only by my internal voices
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13:38:02langhaarrockersee? :)
13:38:57Zagorlanghaarrocker: how do you deal with 3 players in wormlet?
13:39:40langhaarrockertwo players have two buttons on the jukebox and the third one has the remote. I don't have a remote -> its untested.
13:40:18Zagorah, right you only need two buttons.
13:41:25kargatronseems a bit crowded
13:42:15langhaarrockerTell that my internal voices. It's them who crowd me. Probably because I am a 'Kraut'...
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14:50:09 Join Peter99 [0] (
14:50:22Peter99Hi there
14:50:40Peter99Is it possible to delete files with rockbox?
14:50:57 Quit Peter99 (Remote closed the connection)
14:52:50 Join Peter99 [0] (
14:53:02Peter99Damned netscape crashed
14:53:39Peter99So how do I delete files?
14:54:08Bagderwhat model do you have?
14:54:26Bagderin the dir browser
14:54:43Peter99cool. Is renaming also possible?
14:54:59Peter99How does that work ;-)
14:55:02Bagderbut don't try to delete or rename a directory just yet ;-)
14:55:29Bagderpeople report bugs on those functions
14:56:14Peter99Could you tell me how I rename files?
14:56:39Bagdertry it and you'll learn
14:57:57dwihnoRename all your dirs.
14:58:02dwihnoThen blame Zagor ;)
14:58:17Peter99Cool it works just fine!
14:58:25Peter99Thanks for your help!
14:58:50Bagderyou're welcome
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14:59:44dwihnoBagder: renaming/deleting dirs should be disabled for now, imho.
14:59:57dwihnoBagder: how about using really long file names?
15:00:06dwihnoBagder: no risk of any winkyness?
15:00:25Bagdertry it and tell us :-)
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15:01:22adi|homehey Bagder... why did we change the keycode to accepted, but the request of a password from a few months back was reject. seems kinda, um.. arbitrary don't it?
15:01:48Bagderblame it on zagor
15:04:29adi|homewill do :)
15:06:15dwihnoBagder: any idea what causes the scroll flickering?
15:06:24Bagdernot anymore, no
15:06:38Bagderbut the wps code needs an audit and cleanup
15:06:57adi|homemy guesss would be a quick turning on and off of pixels
15:07:04adi|homebut thats just a guess
15:07:05*adi|home ducks
15:07:09*adi|home heads back to bed
15:07:58dwihnoBagder: For that, we need: 2 nuns, a tube of toothpaste and a screwdriver!
15:09:04BagderI'll probably have a go at it next week
15:09:12adi|homepersonnally.. i think bloody mary would have been more appropriate then a screwdrive ;)
15:15:30dwihnoadi|home: hehe, bloody mary jane :D
15:15:40dwihnoA little question. Do you guys think the flash-mod will be possible?
15:15:46*dwihno is not much of a hardware junkie
15:24:03 Join xam [0] (
15:24:12dwihnoWelcome, xam!
15:24:37 Nick Zagor|away is now known as Zagor (
15:25:40voiddoes archos play wma files?
15:26:46Bagdervoid: no
15:28:02dwihnoZagor: Yeah, attaching some kind of ata-flash thing and use it as a buffer.
15:28:21dwihnoAlthough reading 128 megs of mpeg data might be inoptimal :-)
15:29:04Zagorah. sure, it could work. i don't think you'll gain very much though.
15:29:37dwihnoZagor: how about Uwe's experience with the 8meg mod?
15:30:39xamfinally got the 2100mAh batteries this week
15:31:57Zagordwihno: well it's pretty much what was expected. 4x the RAM only makes 1.3 times the run time. so 2MB was a good balance.
15:34:34adi|homevoid.. please read the FAQ
15:37:01 Join Nibbler [0] (
15:37:29xamstrange enough it seems that the 2100 recharge faster than the standard 1500mAh my Archos Recorder 20 came with
15:41:33dwihnoZagor: 1.3 times is not "only", imho :-) Higher mA rated batteries + 8m mod = lots of playing time! :)
15:43:11xamit's says (when fully charged) I have 14h30m running time ... but I haven't tried using it until the batteries are empty
15:44:23xamwhat are the average kBit/s you are using for the calulaction?
15:44:34xamcalculation ;)
15:44:35Schnueff192 i think
15:45:06Schnueffuwe wrote it in one mail
15:45:24dwihnoYa, I think it's 192.
15:46:35 Join ken0 [0] (marklar2@
15:47:34xamoh, yes, I found the email. I'm not substribed to the mailing list, so I had to search the archive. I finally found it ...
15:47:55 Join mecraw [0] (
15:47:59Schnueffglad u didnt search for your whole life
15:48:21Zagordwihno: you want long run time? route the MAS demand and the buttons irq to nmi input and put the CPU in STANDBY mode. 20uA lasts a long time...
15:48:49xamZagor is that feasable?
15:49:03Zagorxam: something like it could be done, yes
15:49:14Zagormaybe not exactly those pins
15:49:23dwihnoZagor: I can do that while listening to "E-type - Africa" under water ;)
15:49:28xamZagor I mean, why didn't Archos try that?
15:49:50Zagorxam: afaik they don't use sleep mode either
15:49:59xamsorry - AFK - coffee break
15:50:11xamZagor that's a little bit stupid from them :-/
15:50:19xamokay, see you in 20mins
15:54:10matslcu bbl
15:54:29 Quit matsl ("Client Exiting")
16:00:39ricIIhowmuch does sh1 cpu use anyways ?
16:01:02Bagder60mA at 12MHz average use
16:02:16ricIIthats a lot, a mod would make sence..
16:04:12ricIIquick caculation (1500/1500-10h*60ma) 1/3 off the power goes to the cpu.
16:05:32Zagorat least
16:08:11ricIIroom for improvement :)
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16:13:57elinenbequick question: maybe someone here can help me. how come no matter what I do, I am unable to apply this patch?
16:15:30ricIIhowmuch does the (idle) ram use, maybe just go standby instead of powerdown?
16:16:17ZagorricII: i don't know. check the data sheets
16:19:50Nibblerelinenbe: i was able to patch this one by "patch -p0 < thispatch" but had to do it in the apps/ folder
16:20:52elinenbehmmm.... I tried that, but I will try it again.
16:21:02elinenbeI am pathing it over lat night's CVS.
16:22:01elinenbeNibbler: worked fine. I must be retarted :)
16:22:02Nibbleri just got latest CVS for testing this...
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16:23:55elinenbeNibbler: I get errors while compiling screens.c −− I will have to go through the whole thing.
16:24:33ricIIhowmuch does the (idle) ram use, maybe just go standby instead of powerdown?qq
16:24:35Nibblerdid not try to compile yet, just appied the patch :)
16:24:44ricIIehh sorry work term..
16:25:05Nibblerget screens.c:467: parse error at end of input when i try to build it
16:26:57 Quit ken0 ("zZz")
16:27:08 Join electrona [0] (
16:28:15electronaI got my player a week ago and now I'm trying to play around with the firmware
16:28:37electronaI already compiled one and did some tests
16:29:15electronabut I can't get the UI-simulator compiled
16:29:58Bagderon windows?
16:30:01electronasince I did this stuff at work and haven't got VC++ on my home-pc - can someone send me the compiled exe (win32)
16:30:15Bagderit is in a sorry state on windows
16:30:26electronasorry state?
16:30:39Bagderyeah, there aren't any windows coders who make sure it compiles and runs fine
16:30:57Bagderso as time passes by, it grows worse and worse
16:30:58electronaI have found a link to a compiled exe but it was dead :(
16:31:16Bagderthat's so old anyway
16:31:29 Quit mecraw ("Trillian (")
16:33:21electronaok maybe I try to do some research...
16:33:41electronathought it would be the easiest was if someone got it compiled already...
16:33:49electronathanks anyway...
16:35:21BagderI only know of one person who compiles it on windows
16:35:41dwihnoedx ?
16:36:53electronado you have an email-address or can give him mine?
16:37:12Nibblerthe windows-simulator does load the firmware as a file also?
16:37:21Nibblerthought so :(
16:37:31dwihnoelectrona: he's on the mailing list, look for Felix Arends
16:37:43Bagderthe simulator is a program that acts like rockbox when it runs
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16:38:00Nibblerbut cant load .ajb files eh?
16:38:02Bagderby simulating most of the lowlevel APIs
16:38:11Bagderno, its not an Archos simulator
16:38:29Nibblerah ok, i get it
16:43:28 Join quelsaruk [0] (
16:43:44langhaarrockerthe 'recent cvs activity' on the rockbox page seems to blink. Is that still due to cvs problems?
16:44:07langhaarrocker(blink = sometimes it's there, sometimes not)
16:47:08Bagderyes, that's why
16:53:37 Part langhaarrocker
16:55:21 Part Zagor
16:57:35xamone question: is the sleep patch already in the CVS and - more importantly - it's in the automatically generated CVS build (bleeding edge builds)?
16:57:43 Join GreyShadow [0] (
16:59:07electronado you mean sleep-timer?
16:59:09dwihnoxam: good question. check the changelogs from the latest daily builds.
16:59:18dwihnoelectrona: nah, sleep patch. CPU sleep mode
16:59:41dwihnoUnless I misinterpreted.
17:01:04quelsarukdwihno: i interpreted the same as u
17:01:16electronaI have a question on the lcd in the player
17:01:26quelsarukbut don't know the answer
17:01:28Bagderits not in CVS yet
17:01:37electronahow did you know that?
17:01:41xamdwihno I don't see it in the changelog, but I saw a message of UWE talking about the current CVS version ... ah here it is ... sorry I misinterpreted UWE's mail
17:01:43BagderI read the commit mails
17:01:56dwihnoBagder: any special reasons?
17:02:09xamdwihno it seems it's really not yet in the CVS
17:02:16Bagderboth yes and no
17:02:23dwihnoBagder: I'm all ears :-)
17:02:28dwihnoEars and nose
17:02:35Bagderyes, because this method was turned down months ago when I suggested it
17:03:10dwihnoSo what kind of power saving things are ment to be included?
17:03:20electronathe character for the progress-bar is set in the get_tag-function as "\x01" - is this interpeted by the lcd_puts-procedure or is this a special c-syntax for a single character?
17:03:24Bagderno, it does save power so its a good thing
17:03:38elinenbeBagder: how come the new cpu sleep is not in the CVS yet? I measured a savings of about 15mA here.
17:04:08Bagderbasicly because no one has read through his patch and given it OK
17:04:18xamBagder I vote for including it into CVS APAS ;)
17:04:26Bagderhave you read the code?
17:04:40xambadger ... after it is cleaned up of course ;)
17:04:54xambagder lol
17:05:00Bagderthat's basicly what I think as well
17:05:20dwihnoHow much will 15mA give in, let's say - one charge?
17:05:41Bagderpossibly ~10% longer playtime
17:06:21dwihnoWhat is left to be done to decrease the power usage?
17:06:36Bagderdoing it better
17:06:38quelsarukthats great
17:08:55xambagder well, the patch looks simple enough (with the led crap removed)
17:09:27Bagderhow does it look on a multi-line scrolling wps?
17:10:41xambagder don't have set up a cross compiling environment here. I could test the compiled file on my recorder20 though ...
17:12:24dwihnoI'm gone for the weekend. Have a good one guys.
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17:12:50xammhh, too late
17:17:06BagderI'm off as well
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17:24:44elinenbeme too!
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17:58:38quelsarukeveryone's gone...
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18:36:46quelsarukhardeep: do u have a recorder rockbox with the *SLEEP* patch?
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18:37:11quelsaruki can't patch it here, and seems to be interesting enough
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18:46:55hardeepquelsaruk: i haven't tried that patch
18:47:17quel|outseems to save nearly a 10% of batteries
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20:02:32quel|outhas anyone a compiled recorder firmware with the "SLEEP" patch?
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21:29:29quel|outtime to go!
21:29:34quel|outhave a good weekend
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21:30:18elinenbehello everyone
21:30:22elinenbericII: you here?
21:30:48ricIItrouble ?
21:31:12elinenbericII: I have been playing with it all day today commuting and at work, and everything seems great so far.
21:31:23elinenbericII: any new improvments?
21:31:44ricIIno, just started 'task rockbox'
21:31:59elinenbericII: the delay of loading a large directory hardly bothers me because of the great features.
21:32:50elinenbehowever there seems to be some feature problems with rockbox the way it currently stands.
21:33:00ricIIfor the moment I keep the savesettings() there to be on the save side
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21:33:27elinenbesome great new features are being added (along with your's) but there seems to be a need to reorganize all the options.
21:33:37elinenbethe quick menus, file editing, etc.
21:33:53ricIIanything related to playlist code ?
21:33:58elinenbeno :)
21:35:00ricIIso, if I fix the shuffle modes it ready for production
21:35:43elinenbewell, it would be nice to load the current stuff into ram before writing to disk.
21:36:29ricIIthere are a lot of other optimizations posible aswell.
21:36:56elinenbethat is something that may concern the average user.
21:37:34ricIIyou try the resume function ?
21:37:52elinenbeno, I did not.
21:37:57elinenbeI can now though
21:41:15ricIIif you get 'corrupted patchfile, offset: xxxxx' something changed rtc, or I do something wrong (or you fiddled with .playlist_patches)
21:43:20elinenbericII: so are you just finishing up shuffle?
21:44:03ricIIyes, but I'm having some problems there,
21:45:31ricIIspecificly with midplay list shuffle & unshuffle (sorting) in combination with resume..
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21:46:41elinenbehardeep is the person who couldhelp you the best with that
21:47:23ricIIit's also a matter of concept...
21:47:35elinenbeIt gets confusing. :)
21:47:39ricIIappend is easy..
21:48:01nazemanI have the build for FM, work great, very thanks but only with power (adaptor)
21:48:19elinenbenazeman: sounds good.
21:49:23ricIIconfusing gets insert while shuffled, where sould the inserted file endup after sort (unshuffle)
21:51:06nazemanis the problem with power know ? or is a bug fix release asap ? (sorry my english is poor)
21:51:40ricIIpower problem? fm specific?
21:53:32nazemanonly with battery, i have the rockbox logo and power off.
21:53:47ricIIsouldn't unshuffle (sort) restore what shuffle did.. (and how could I do that in every situation..)
21:54:18elinenbericII: yeah −− I think it should
21:54:20ricIInazeman: I don't have a FM, so can't help you here..
21:56:00nazemanri have read in the mailling list that it know (many user the same problem)
21:56:10ricIIso where does one insert when in shuffle mode (at the begining, end before appends ....)
21:59:41ricIInazeman: probely a little to low-level for me (now)
22:00:19elinenbericII: I think an insert in shuffle should inster right after what you are listening to.
22:00:29elinenbefor instance you have songs 1,2,3,4,5
22:00:31elinenbeyou shuffle
22:00:37elinenbenow you have 2,4,5,3,1
22:00:42elinenbeyou are listening to 5
22:00:48elinenbeand insert 6,7
22:00:57elinenbethen you have 2,4,5,6,7,3,1
22:01:13elinenbeah!!! now what to do if you unshuffle?
22:01:46ricIIso the "sorting" sould see following inserts as 1 block..
22:03:54elinenbeif you unshuffle, I think the sorting should see 5,6,7 as a block
22:04:07elinenbeafter you listened to 5, you wanted to listen to 6 and then 7
22:04:13elinenbethey should stay together
22:07:08ricIIcan do that (I think)
22:09:40ricIImaybe I sould redefine shuffling...
22:11:08ricIInow shuffle realy messesup the indices order on which I depend with my patchfile & resume..
22:16:04ricIIbut since it not real random (given the seed) ....
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22:25:33ricIIbut what if say 1,2,3,4,5 insert 6,7 after 3 (giving 1,2,3,6,7,4,5) shuffle on 7 producing 5,2,4,3,6,1,7 and start inserting 8,9 after now 4 ..
22:26:36ricIIproducing 5,2,4,8,9,3,1,7 ... try unshufling that...
22:27:02ricIIops forgot our 6
22:27:49ricII5,2,4,8,9,3,6,1,7 hmm
22:31:14ricIIremember this is still desired behavoir, implementing it sucsesfuly is a differnt piece of cake..
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