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#rockbox log for 2003-03-03

00:01:32Zagori don't think I tested append/close/append/close/append/close a lot
00:02:08LinusNhang on, i have to reboot
00:02:11 Part LinusN
00:02:41 Quit edx ()
00:08:51 Join LinusN [0] (
00:11:57ZagorLinusN: can you repeat it easily?
00:12:03LinusNno, not yet
00:12:09LinusNgive me a few
00:17:38jzossZagor: looks like the even-write-offset did the trick. Thx!
00:17:45Zagorjzoss: good
00:18:19jzossIs that documented anywhere?
00:18:45Zagornope :)
00:18:48jzossMind if I throw a comment near write() in file.c to give a heads-up to anyone snoopin around?
00:19:31Zagordocs/API could use a line or two too
00:20:09Zagorwe could also simply add odd address capability to ata_write_sector :-)
00:20:22jzossI was just thinking that. =-)
00:20:47jzossBut a comment's easier for me, so I'll throw that in with the rest of the ID3-patch, and you can accept/reject as you deem fit
00:21:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:24:40 Join dvr-505 [0] (
00:24:55dvr-505help please
00:25:17jzosswith what?
00:25:20dvr-505*panic* recfile -2
00:25:23LinusNok then, since you ask so nicely
00:25:33dvr-505what is this
00:25:38LinusNdvr-505: we are working on it
00:25:45LinusNit is a serious bug
00:25:56dvr-505can you explain it to me
00:26:21LinusNit is a problem with the file system driver
00:26:35dvr-505i reported bugs as in the website
00:26:38LinusNso it corrupts the recorded file and the recording code panics
00:27:01LinusNi am chasing the bug as we speak
00:27:05dvr-505but it only corrupts at 63.1MB
00:27:25dvr-505or does it corrupt by time????
00:27:26LinusNit depends
00:27:30LinusNnot sure yet
00:27:47dvr-505it happened to me always at 63.1mb
00:28:25dvr-505recording at quality 7 43.5db 44.1khz
00:28:29LinusNnot for me
00:28:48jzosshave you tried it with different recording settings?
00:28:56dvr-505i am recording as we speek
00:28:58jzossThat might show if it was time or size-related...
00:29:02dvr-505but at the same quality
00:29:34dvr-505i have already recorded 65.3 mb at the same settings but i stopped the recording with no error report
00:30:03dvr-505i will keep trying
00:30:13dvr-505do you want me to keep reporting?
00:31:00LinusNnot necessary if you get the same shit over again
00:31:25Zagordvr-505: only if you notice a difference
00:31:41dvr-505i can try to record at lower quality and see if it is the file size or time......
00:35:09LinusNno need (yet)
00:35:27LinusNbut thanks for offering your help
00:41:41 Join JorisH [0] (
00:41:50LinusNZagor: i can repeat it
00:41:58Zagorah, goodie. how?
00:42:19JorisHHey, whats up?
00:42:21dvr-5051h 63.9mb
00:42:24LinusNa loop that open-write-close chunks of 0x123456 bytes
00:42:30dvr-505keeps recording
00:42:45LinusNwant the code?
00:42:59Zagornah, i'll test myself
00:43:20LinusNJorisH: hunting a nasty file system bug
00:43:44JorisHas usual :D
00:43:56ZagorLinusN: after how many writes does it bug?
00:44:11LinusNguess what file size? :-)
00:44:20LinusN63mb something
00:45:15Zagorbugger. works in the simcode.
00:46:08dvr-505mine stopped at 1:03:00 file +65mb
00:46:12LinusNit is easier to repeat it on an empty drive
00:46:28Zagormy simdrive is always empty :-)
00:46:38dvr-505must power off to continue using
00:46:56LinusNdvr-505: yes, panic is a dead end
00:47:55LinusNdvr-505: how big is your hard drive?
00:48:44dvr-505unit: jbr20101
00:48:45LinusNZagor: cluster size may matter
00:48:52JorisHdoes rockbox internally keep track of file lenght while recording?
00:48:56Zagorgood point. which size are you using?
00:49:09LinusNi dunno
00:49:21JorisHdo a checkdisk
00:49:37LinusNthe 56th write fails when closing
00:50:50LinusN Contains a free cluster (13824). Assuming EOF.
00:50:50LinusN File size is 65617530 bytes, cluster chain length is 57524224 bytes.
00:50:50LinusN Truncating file to 57524224 bytes.
00:50:50DBUGEnqueued KICK LinusN
00:50:50LinusNReclaimed 629 unused clusters (10305536 bytes).
00:50:52LinusNFree cluster summary wrong (1215138 vs. really 1216804)
00:51:25Zagor10305536/629/512 == 32 sec/clus
00:52:13LinusNBoot sector contents:
00:52:14LinusNSystem ID "MSDOS5.0"
00:52:14LinusNMedia byte 0xf8 (hard disk)
00:52:14LinusN 512 bytes per logical sector
00:52:14***Alert Mode level 1
00:52:14LinusN 16384 bytes per cluster
00:52:14***Alert Mode level 2
00:52:14LinusN 36 reserved sectors
00:52:15ZagorI still can't repeat it in the sim, though
00:52:18LinusNFirst FAT starts at byte 18432 (sector 36)
00:52:20LinusN 2 FATs, 32 bit entries
00:52:22LinusN 4881408 bytes per FAT (= 9534 sectors)
00:52:24LinusNRoot directory start at cluster 2 (arbitrary size)
00:52:26LinusNData area starts at byte 9781248 (sector 19104)
00:52:28LinusN 1220341 data clusters (2814197760 bytes)
00:52:30LinusN63 sectors/track, 255 heads
00:52:32LinusN 63 hidden sectors
00:52:35LinusN 39070017 sectors total
00:52:53dvr-505the file that was recording was +65mb and now has only 61.8mb
00:58:25 Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection)
00:58:51ZagorLinusN: can you debug it and see if file->fileoffset is bad or if fat_seek() bugs?
00:59:09LinusNno serial port
00:59:16Zagorthis is the fm?
00:59:27LinusNyes, i don't get it on my rec20
00:59:52LinusNbut i can do some good ol' lcd debugging
01:02:15***Alert Mode OFF
01:04:25 Quit JorisH ("Leaving")
01:06:44LinusNfile offset looks ok
01:11:57 Quit s0be ("Client exiting")
01:12:36 Join s0be [0] (~s0be@
01:16:10CtcpIgnored 2 channel CTCP requests in 22 hours and 33 minutes at the last flood
01:16:10*LinusN is running an extensive test
01:17:50LinusNZagor: nothing extraordinary to report
01:18:22Zagorok. i'll be off to bed.
01:18:54Zagorsee you later
01:18:56 Quit Zagor ("Client Exiting")
01:20:56adi|homeLinusN: you still around?
01:21:02LinusNi'm here
01:21:16adi|homeyou been upto date on the ui emails?
01:21:25LinusNnot really
01:21:42LinusNbut i think i agree with joaquim on many points
01:22:04adi|homeso do i .. i just think his problem is on how he is presenting it
01:22:18LinusNthat is at least part of the problem
01:22:38LinusNhe is too focused on the concept of an ordinary music player
01:22:43adi|homei like his cursor invert idea
01:22:46adi|homefor the full line part
01:22:50LinusNthe recorder is not an ordinary player
01:23:12adi|homeand his tetris thing... i think i like it sideways like it is now more
01:23:37adi|homething that i think gets under my skin the most is 'tell me what parts you want, and then Ill make that patch'
01:23:55adi|homefeels too much like 'you have to take more then one patch at a time or else'
01:24:15LinusNyou have to see his point too
01:24:36LinusNhe hacked it so it fitted his needs
01:24:54LinusN"fitted" ??
01:25:10adi|homefit i think
01:25:11LinusNfit - fit - fit
01:25:13adi|homeright.. i agree..
01:25:27adi|homebut he's been asked (multiple times) to break it out into more then one patch
01:25:44LinusNhe has no obligations to us
01:26:01adi|homei agree...
01:26:09adi|homejust as we have none to him ;)
01:27:14LinusNthe thing is that all UI discussions tend to flip out sooner or later
01:27:22adi|homeflip out?
01:27:28LinusNsorry, swenglish
01:27:45adi|homegive me a definition once and you can use it all you want :)
01:28:02*LinusN is thinking
01:28:09adi|homeflip out: become an ego contest?
01:28:18adi|homeflip out: get resolved
01:28:34LinusNrather "out of hand"
01:28:56LinusNpeople have different needs
01:29:08LinusNjoaquim wants to play music in his pocket
01:29:11adi|homei agree
01:29:19LinusNi want to do a lot more than that
01:29:37LinusNso we need to find a way to accomodate as many needs as possible
01:29:37adi|homewhile i use my player only when driving.. so don't care about the interface all that much
01:29:51LinusNbut you must have similar needs
01:30:06LinusNlike not being forced to look at the lcd
01:30:08adi|homeall i need is a large font and usable wps
01:30:56adi|homewhat i do like though.. is someone gave a demo of horizontal sliders
01:30:58adi|homethat i liked...
01:31:31adi|homethe idea of having many of the settings in one window was one i mentioned long ago.. but got a 'we'll deal with that later' for :)
01:31:34adi|homewhich was cool
01:33:12jzosswhile y'all are in a UI discussion....
01:33:40jzossPart of my ID3 patch is the ability to set ID3 tags for recordings (rather than edit the file after the fact)
01:34:20jzossWhat do you think: 1) Hardcoded recording ID3 tags that reset to defaults every reboot
01:34:32jzoss2) Blank ID3 defaults
01:34:47adi|homeis there a 3?
01:34:50jzoss3) Save/Load the last values along with the rest of config settings
01:34:54adi|homethere we go :)
01:34:57adi|homei vote for 2
01:34:59LinusNdefinitely 3
01:35:13jzossIf you think there's a need for 3, it's probably more flexible.
01:35:31adi|homei only vote for 2, because i tend not to use id3 tags at all
01:35:32jzossI don't think I'll go as far as doing a Cfg option for "choose 2 vs 3 behavior", though
01:35:39adi|homebut 3 works just as well :)
01:35:45adi|homenah.. no need for that
01:36:00jzossyah, me too. But I do have the need to edit ID3 tags on the JB when I find one that's wrong, though
01:36:10dvr-505uh all 3???
01:36:23dvr-505give people option
01:37:34jzossToo many options make me sad. Especially for relatively trivial stuff like this. =)
01:38:21jzossBut that doesn't mean *you* can't hack the code to add in your own preferences. =) Go Rockbox!
01:39:39dvr-505During the recording the screen could show Press Off to STOP
01:39:39dvr-505also the peak meter could be shown in stereo when the internal mic is in use
01:39:39DBUGEnqueued KICK dvr-505
01:39:39dvr-505not for here
01:44:26dvr-505anything new about the recording error??????
01:44:55 Join ken0_ [0] (marklar2@
01:45:07LinusNdvr-505: still hunting
02:00:10 Quit s0be ("Client exiting")
02:00:28 Join s0be [0] (~s0be@
02:05:04 Quit dvr-505 ("Keep Hunting That damm Bug")
02:10:16 Quit s0be ("Client exiting")
02:10:32 Join s0be [0] (~s0be@
02:11:58 Quit s0be (Client Quit)
02:12:12 Join s0be [0] (~s0be@
02:21:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:01:22 Quit s0be (Remote closed the connection)
04:02:09 Join s0be [0] (~s0be@
04:05:53 Quit Jet8810 ("Client Exiting")
04:09:04 Quit s0be ("Client exiting")
04:21:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:47:02 Join s0be [0] (~s0be@
05:15:56 Part LinusN
05:27:35 Join Nibbler [0] (
05:28:09Nibblerwow, didnt expect anyone to be around :)
05:29:35jzossIt's only 10:30 here
05:30:42Nibblerheh, 12:30 here :)
05:31:01Nibblerbut for most ppl in here its like 3-5am
05:31:46jzossyah. I caught zagor on today and peppered him with a kazillion questions... pesky timezones. ;)
05:34:11Nibblerheh, where r u from?
05:34:33Nibblerand: is there any mayor features in rockbox since.... playlist building?
05:34:43jzossSan Antonio, TX, USA
05:35:06jzossPlaylistBuilding => that "create a playlist" option that scans all subdirs?
05:35:19Nibblerah, singapore here....
05:35:49jzossLemme see.... I came onboard after that was in place, so I can only tell you the more recent things
05:36:21jzossThere's a queueing function to let you dynamically queue things up in the middle of an existing playlist
05:37:04jzossAnd a "bookmarking" patch (not integrated into CVS yet) that allows you to save file-specific resume info (helpful for audio books)
05:37:40jzossA whole host of minor bugfixes...
05:37:42Nibblerthats what i have in my version :)
05:37:52jzossMy brain's a little slow, so that's all I can come up with now. =)
05:38:07Nibblerbookmark and queue, but queue with only the 1 enque option, so no, insert, append, prepend....
05:38:39Nibblerok, then im enough up-to-date
05:38:42jzossI'm working on an ID3 patch and another for custom filenaming for recording files
05:38:54Nibblercaus most patches were not to applie to latest sources...
05:39:01Nibbleroh nice
05:39:12jzossAnd there's quite a few people bouncing around new UI designs or ideas for playlist editing
05:39:17jzossSo checkback in a bit. =)
05:39:22Nibbleri looked into the code a few times but i dont feel like being able to actually do smth :()
05:39:45Nibblerthe UI kinda suxx yes, i dont really like it as it is now
05:40:05jzoss2.0 should be released soon (there's kinda a feature freeze)
05:40:16jzossI think UI is high on the list of post-2.0 things to tackle
05:40:47 Nick _seb_ is now known as seb-sleep (
05:41:53Nibblerwell, i was more up-to-date for normal, but im on vacation atm so i conly check for news once in a while :)
05:44:22jzossvacation? I'm jealous. ;)
05:44:56Nibblerim in singapore right now (as my hostmasks might have told ya) go9ing back to germany next week :(
05:45:21jzosswhat're you seeing in singapore?
05:45:52Nibblerheh, my gf :D
05:46:09Nibblerdoing mainly shopping in .sg and going to malaysia for the weekends for holiday
05:46:12jzossahhh...Singapore is not usually tops on people's touristylists
05:47:47Nibbleryus :)
05:47:58Nibblerits good for electronics, digicams, computers stuff
05:48:06Nibblerand i got some suits tailored... but thats about it :
05:52:35CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
05:52:35*adi|home yawns
05:52:37adi|homehowdy all
05:52:46jzosswhat're you doing up, adi?
05:53:24adi|homeonly like midnight here
05:53:29adi|homeim tossing in laundry
05:53:33adi|homeand working on a patch
05:53:35jzossahh... me too! =)
05:53:43jzosslaundry + patch. ;)
05:54:11adi|homewhat you working on?
05:54:33jzossthat silly id3 stuff. I got 90% of it done real quick, but the last few details & debugging take forever
05:56:33adi|homeim working adding the curor bit that since Carvalho seems adament about not breaking his bit up into diff patches
05:56:39*adi|home grumbles at that dudes attitude
05:56:59jzossahhh... yup.
05:57:11adi|home"you tell me what you want, and ill make the patch"
05:57:17jzossMaybe it's a culture/language barrier ?
05:57:19*jzoss shrugs
05:57:22adi|homewe have yout tool.. we want you to _BREAK_ them out
05:57:30adi|homenah.. its personality
06:00:02jzossis it at least readable code?
06:01:05 Join mecraw [0] (~mecraw@
06:04:02adi|homeim not too worried about his code to be honest
06:04:12adi|homeat this point, im fairly against him in general
06:04:28adi|homeif he isn't going to take the time to break it out, im not going to take the time to read it
06:05:58jzosssuch is the joy of global opensource projects. For the most part, the rockbox crowd seems to get along pretty well.
06:06:07jzossCould help that there's a lot of family involved. ;)
06:09:10 Quit s0be (Remote closed the connection)
06:15:36 Join MeRWiN [0] (
06:21:16adi|homeyeah.. that and most of the group is open for comments...
06:21:28adi|homei've had my fair share of stuff shot down..
06:21:35***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:21:36adi|homeand ive been willing/able to work around it..
06:21:41jzossheh. yah.
06:21:48adi|homei mean.. even before when he was argueing the use of the c++ style comments
06:21:59adi|homeit took bjorn saying 'deal with it' to get him to change
06:22:14jzossrightright... that seemed a little going-against-the-flow
06:23:22MTi think you are being a little harsh tbh
06:24:00MThes done this mainly to scratch his own itch
06:24:18MTand beign a nice open source kind of chappy, hes made his changes go upstream
06:24:58MThe probably doesnt _want_ to be part of 'rockbox community'
06:25:06adi|homeoh.. im not knocking his want at his itch..
06:25:30adi|homeand thats fine.. but to come across saying 'im not making the changes.. i don't have time.. im just going to keep doing what i want.. '
06:25:31MTbut hes happy to rewrite any part of what hes done if someone here decides they'd like that included
06:25:35adi|homei have no prob with...
06:25:48adi|homeMT but thats my point
06:26:09adi|homewe can't _tell_ what we want.. because im not about to apply his ENTIRE patch to see what i do/don't like
06:26:24adi|homethere maybe things that are broken in parts of th patch that I don't like
06:26:26MTui arguments tend to get heated very quickly :)
06:26:37adi|homeand they are only there because of parts of another part of the patch
06:26:45MTerm, thats perhaps why he has supplied prebuilt binaries of his code
06:26:50adi|homebut im not on about his ui suggestons...
06:27:09adi|homebut it doesn't help us decide what to and not to take...
06:27:18 Join s0be [0] (~s0be@
06:27:27MTi must be missing something here ..
06:27:30adi|homeand he's shown himself want of following contributing guidlines..
06:27:32adi|homeand he still is
06:27:49adi|homeim all for some of the changes he's made
06:28:00adi|homeand if they were seperate patches.. they would be in already..
06:28:01MThmm, i think hes on the defensive tbh
06:28:05 Part s0be ("Client exiting")
06:28:14adi|homethats his own fault...
06:28:23MThis first few emails were attacked quite viciously
06:28:31adi|homei don't think that so true
06:28:37adi|homehe was asked to follow the contrib doc
06:28:50adi|homeand he said 'im not doing anything wrong'
06:29:12adi|homeit was explained what the changes we would have liked to see in the style.. and then he got defensice
06:29:17adi|homedefensive rather :)
06:29:38MTwell, sure if he wanted to become part of the rockbox project ..
06:29:53adi|homeif he wanted his patches accepted
06:29:54MTbut if he just wanted to share some code he had done for himself
06:30:23MTah, he probably doesnt see the overall aim as "getting patches accepted"
06:30:57adi|homeright.. and i think thats part of the problem..
06:31:04adi|homeif he doesn't 'want patches accepted' then fine
06:31:08adi|homesay that and move forward
06:31:12MTwhy is that a problem?
06:31:23adi|homebut the attitude of 'you tell me what you want.. and _then_ ill fix my code' is crap.
06:31:43adi|homehim not wanting it in as a patch isn't a problem at all.
06:31:46adi|homeits his code.
06:31:46MThe _has_ to submit changes to the source code of rockbox
06:31:53adi|homethats up to him.
06:31:56MTas he is distributing binaries of it
06:32:32 Quit Nibbler (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
06:32:38MTit is GPL
06:32:44MThe has to under the license
06:32:49adi|homei understand...
06:32:56adi|homeim not argueing that point...
06:33:02MTwhether you accept them, ignore them, ask him to rewrite them is not relevant
06:33:12adi|homebut he isn't saying 'i don't want this accepted..'
06:33:36MTbut the first thing ppl said to him after showing them his work is "well that all needs rewriting, change it so its like this, blahblah"
06:33:41adi|homeif when he was asked to rewrite.. he said 'no' id be defending him to the last
06:33:42MTfine for a rockbox developer
06:33:51MTwell he did say no
06:33:57adi|homeno. he didn't.
06:34:05MThe said "why should i change my comments"
06:34:09MTthats 'no'
06:35:29adi|homeno.. its a question
06:35:35adi|home'i won't change my comments' is a no :)
06:36:11jzossg'night, all... don't stay up *too* late. heh. =)
06:36:36 Quit jzoss ("BitchX: not from concentrate")
06:36:52adi|homeand his entire time he's been saying 'i don't have time <insert line here>' and i appreaciate that.. but a lot more time could be used productively (for all involved) not reiterating that, and following the docs :)
06:38:08adi|homeand im looking over the archives right now..
06:38:17adi|homeand the initial emails were nowhere near attacking
06:38:38adi|homemany of the emails were actually very complimentary of the _binaries_ he was sending out.. (no code given at the time)
06:43:14MT(05:37) <o~jzoss> g'night, all... don't stay up *too* late. heh. =)
06:43:21MTtoo late already? :)
06:43:40adi|home15 to 1 am here
06:43:49MTi wish it was here too :)
06:44:09MTi may stand a chance of finishing this website before the guy that has paid me comes back from holiday :)
07:07:16 Quit MT ("changing servers")
07:14:07 Join MT [0] (
07:43:51 Join Nibbler [0] (
08:07:57 Nick dw|gone is now known as dwihno (
08:17:50 Join Bagder [0] (
08:18:43dwihnoIndeed, it's a really good morning! :)
08:18:50dwihnoNah, who am I trying to fool... ;)
08:21:17 Join ken0 [0] (marklar2@
08:21:18 Quit ken0_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
08:21:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:29:31 Quit Nibbler (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
08:29:57 Join Nibbler [0] (
08:35:09*dwihno awaits the return of Zagor
08:54:15adi|homeBagder.. need an opinion?
08:54:35adi|homesince the irc logs now spam a full year.. we need to tell the month differences...
08:54:40adi|homeis that legable?
08:58:00Bagderlooks neat
08:58:26 Join Zagor_ [242] (
08:58:35adi|homethink there is any prob if i update the irc perl script to have it do tat?
08:58:42adi|homehey.. zagor.. good timing...
08:58:56adi|homeopinions to fix the irc log years thing
08:59:10Zagor_looks good
08:59:27 Nick Zagor_ is now known as Zagor (
09:02:10dwihnoHowdy ho, Zagor!
09:02:14dwihnoDo I got news for you!
09:02:29dwihnoI got a red light hang today
09:02:49Zagoryeah, I know the fix doesn't work. someone mentioned in the bug report.
09:03:40dwihnoDo you want me to run some kind of debug enabled build, to find out exactly where it hangs?
09:04:07Zagoronly if you can repeat it easily
09:05:42dwihnoIt's a surprise feature
09:05:50Zagoryeah... :-(
09:06:01dwihnoI could go back to the file display
09:06:11dwihnobut when I tried to start a new file, it froze
09:06:27Zagorvery annoying
09:07:15dwihnoThe bug is because of disk read failing?
09:07:25Zagori think so
09:07:46dwihnoI mean, I never had the problem with the unit at home :)
09:08:33ZagorI've never had the problem PERIOD. and yet I ride with it to work every day.
09:09:53dwihnoI never had the problem with my IBM disk
09:10:37adi|homezagor.. we have lines commented out in any prob if i remove them?
09:11:34 Join edx [0] (
09:12:31Zagorno problem
09:13:48adi|homek.. i think i have it.. wanna take a copy of the script and see if it the output looks right before i commit/
09:15:12*adi|home is away: laundry
09:16:30 Join matsl [0] (
09:20:23*adi|home is back (gone 00:05:08)
09:20:43adi|homeZagor did you take that file?
09:21:51dwihnoZagor: is there any way I can help with squishing the red light bug? I can run special builds if that helps.
09:22:53Zagoradi|home: no, I can't dcc here. i'm going through a proxy.
09:23:06Zagordwihno: i'm not sure what more I should attempt
09:23:22adi|homeahhh.. okay..
09:25:24adi|homebjorn at right?
09:26:17adi|homeit also fixes the lack of a <tr> at the start of the first row in the table
09:31:57dwihnoZagor: If you come up with any ideas, I will gladly assist.
09:32:07adi|homeoh.. i ment to ask you something zag...
09:32:13Zagordwihno: I guess we could try to use a hard reset
09:32:31adi|homeregarding the idea of dynamically loading sokoban levels...
09:32:36adi|homesmall problem
09:32:49adi|homedo we treat # as a comment char?
09:33:10adi|homeif so, we need to reedit the labels, because '#' is a mapable char
09:33:15dwihnoZagor: what's the difference?
09:33:16Zagordefine "we"
09:33:27dwihnoZagor: soft (and hard) resets sounds pretty serious
09:33:38adi|homewebmind: whoever is building the levels or editing the code (ie: Rob) :)
09:33:49adi|homegree.. s/webmind/we/
09:34:33Zagoradi|home: i doubt there is support for comments in the sokoban loader. but I haven't looked...
09:34:35adi|homeor i can make ';' a comment char, but it then differs from all our other text files...
09:34:53adi|homewell.. there isn't in ours because its not built yet ;)
09:35:05Zagorooh :)
09:35:13Zagorno need for comments, imho
09:35:20*adi|home is writing it
09:35:37Bagdercomments are for losers ;-)
09:36:02adi|home"...all code should be self-documenting..."
09:36:12adi|home"...even God has DNA..."
09:36:30Zagorno I don't
09:36:45adi|homei said God
09:36:47adi|homenot god
09:36:51adi|homebig difference :)
09:37:03adi|homeyou are _a_ god, not _the_ god
09:42:09Zagoradi|home: if works, commit it
09:42:27ZagorI'm a bit occupied atm
09:54:52MeRWiNWoohoo!!! I just finished my first game on the PocketPC :-) a Collapse! clone. The graphics lib lets it run in both PocketPC and Win32... fun stuff
09:55:17Zagorwho wants pocketpc when there's rockbox? :-)
09:55:37MeRWiNZagor: hey, the logic for the game is all there, written in standard C. Someone could port it to rockbox :)
09:55:52MeRWiNalthough without a mouse or pen it'll be pretty hard to play
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11:09:02 Join thewookie [0] (~jirc@
11:09:52thewookiehello all, sorry for butting in.. can anybody tell me how to que songs whilst playing on the fly ona a player?
11:11:31Zagorthewookie: press ON to go to the browser, select a file, press ON+PLAY and then PLAY again
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12:01:16 Join Elkhedewi [0] (
12:01:28Elkhedewihey people
12:01:39Elkhedewican i ask a question..?
12:01:51Elkhedewii get the hd register error with the recorder..
12:02:02Elkhedewithe computer can't read from the hard disk
12:02:54Elkhedewiyou know anything about it, bagder?
12:05:00Elkhedewik thanx anyway
12:06:22*Bagder is busy
12:12:17Elkhedewidoes anybody know anything about hd register error?
12:12:37Elkhedewii checked forums sites and its all complaints but no solutions...
12:13:25Nibblerme no
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12:19:34Bagderimpatient person
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12:50:12quelsarukcu later
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14:55:21 Join bobTHC [0] (
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14:55:29bobTHChi all!!!
15:03:08dwihnohi bob!
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15:09:34bobTHChave see the page??
15:10:04bobTHCname stealers ?
15:11:16dwihnothat's sad
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16:26:54 Join quelsaruk [0] (
16:39:59dwihnohey ho
16:40:06dwihnofix my bo' (x)
16:40:09dwihnoI want more RAM
16:40:15quelsarukme too
16:40:31quelsarukdo you know anything else about that compact flash upgrade??
16:41:44 Quit mecraw ("Trillian (")
16:41:47dwihnoI'll bribe someone into mod:ing my box
16:41:56quelsarukthat would be a crazy but interesting mod
16:42:20dwihnoI want a dir cache! :)
16:42:29quelsarukdwihno: if you find someone that can do it.. i'll send you my box, so he/she can do 2 mods :)
16:42:29dwihnoImagine how blazingly fast dir browsing would be
16:42:49dwihnoquelsaruk: Let's bribe Linus :)
16:43:24dwihnoI'll bribe him with Kebab (starka såsen på)
16:44:26quelsaruki'll use alhambra 1925, the best beer :)
16:44:48quelsarukspanish beer is normal, but this one.... it's excellent
16:45:35bobTHCsan miguel is not so good
16:46:22bobTHCi never try the alhambra 1925..... next summer i'll try it
16:48:33quelsaruksan miguel is a bad beer
16:48:48quelsarukbobTHC: you can find alhambra 1925 just in Granada :)
16:49:24bobTHCbut in genral when i go to spain i drink absynth or calimuxo
16:49:48quelsarukcalimocho!! :
16:50:45bobTHCen pais basquo se escribe con un X
16:50:55bobTHCsan fermin rulez!!
16:51:42bobTHCi try to go to san fermin every year...
16:52:15bobTHCit' so good!
16:54:30quelsarukrunning in front of a bull?
16:54:40quelsarukjust for northern people... they are crazy
16:56:02 Nick dwihno is now known as dw|gone (
17:15:39 Part Zagor
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17:26:50 Quit Bagder ("Client Exiting")
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17:57:32 Join mauli [0] (
17:58:12mauliHi! I have one question: Did anybody of you really try to use ordinary 1.5V - Batteries in the Jukebox?
17:58:26Schnueffi think this doesnt work
17:58:39Schnueffbecause ordinary batteries can't deliver the current to spin up the HD
17:59:03mauliyou think i need the 1.5 A?
17:59:42maulithe batteries have 1,500 mAh
18:00:17Schnueffmaybe just read ?
18:00:26Schnueffq9 / q8
18:00:51barker`codingand get these:
18:01:27mauliwow! how many hours with these?
18:02:34barker`codingI'm not sure.
18:03:10barker`codingBut it's like having an extra battery and a third. Combined with the 8meg mod, you should be good to go for quite a while.
18:08:04 Join tracktheripper [0] (
18:08:23tracktheripperGood afternoon Rockboxers
18:11:26tracktheripperHi there
18:11:36tracktheripperjust checking out the Feature Requests
18:11:50tracktheripperOne "Rejected" request is now implemented in the daily builds
18:12:11Schnueffhighly illogical
18:12:12barker`codingwhich is that?
18:12:20tracktheripperits the "Vocal Remover (Karaoke) mode"
18:12:25barker`codingI hate that.
18:12:39quelsarukhi tracktheripper!
18:12:49tracktheripperZagor added a comment that said "This is a new codec, Go ask Micronas"
18:12:52tracktheripperHey Quels!
18:13:27tracktheripperIm just baffled how it got implemented if it was rejected
18:13:33PsycoXultracktheripper: yeah it was just a case where they didn't know enough about the hardware to know it's possible
18:13:45PsycoXultracktheripper: but thought they did and that it wasn't
18:13:55tracktheripperoh ok fair enough
18:14:02tracktheripperim not having a go or anything
18:14:14PsycoXulit's happened a few times i think
18:14:18PsycoXuli suspect it may happen a few more
18:14:44tracktheripperand some of the most outrageous requests havent been rejected! Like the Make the Normal Recorder Pick Up FM one!!!
18:14:52PsycoXuli've suspected all along that they never know as much about the hardware as they think they do
18:15:00PsycoXulbut i know they'll find out eventualy heh
18:15:16tracktheripperIn that case they may even make timestretching a posibillity
18:15:36tracktheripper<−−−− bursts into tears
18:15:38PsycoXuldoubtful.. but who knows :p
18:16:14tracktheripperQuelsaruk has murdered his Archos :-(
18:16:31quelsaruknot really.... just tried to fry it
18:16:45tracktheripperthink of all the pain you have caused ur Archos
18:19:33tracktheripperTimestretch should be theoretically possible on the Archos
18:20:27tracktheripperafter all you are doing is altering the song speed whilst keeping pitch constant
18:20:30bobTHCbut only with DSP programming
18:21:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:21:54tracktheripperbobTHC will the arrowcurser ever change to a line selector?
18:22:08tracktheripperwhere the line "negative-ises" the chosen option?
18:23:11bobTHCi think it a good think but i dont know when nor who....
18:23:38 Quit tracktheripper (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:24:43 Join tracktheripper [0] (
18:24:49tracktherippersorry got cut off
18:24:57tracktheripper((bloody 56k modems))
18:25:16tracktheripperyea did u get my question bobTHC?
18:25:34bobTHC i think it a good think but i dont know when nor who....
18:25:43tracktheripperbut u know what im saying?
18:25:52bobTHCof course...
18:26:06tracktherippera lineselector that "negative-tises" the chosen option like on a mobilephone
18:26:49tracktherippersomeone said to me "the RIAA are gonna get you!"
18:26:50bobTHCfor the time streching it's surely technicaly possible....
18:26:53tracktheripperbecause of my name!
18:27:08 Quit edx (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
18:27:49tracktheripperbob have you ever used timestretch?
18:28:48bobTHCwith rockbox?
18:28:57tracktheripperno in a program like Soundforge
18:29:03bobTHCof course
18:29:13tracktheripperwhat do u think sounds better?
18:29:21tracktherippertimestretch or change the pitch?
18:29:46bobTHCbasicly timestrech dont change the tone
18:29:59tracktheripperyea but in your opinion what sounds better to you
18:30:22bobTHCtimestreching of course, i
18:31:06bobTHCfor using in mix with lp or with 2 rockbox
18:31:09tracktheripperBob have you ever used something called Realizer?
18:31:35bobTHCfor mac?
18:32:20tracktheripperRealizer is a program that claims to improve MP3 sound by "restoring the frequencies lost by the MP3 compression"
18:33:30tracktheripperbut I have to agree with Zagor that Realizer is a load of snake oil
18:34:01bobTHCu can't restoring something loose....i
18:34:09barker`codingHow can they restore it?
18:34:10barker`codingIt's gone.
18:34:23tracktheripperI sent it as a feature request which Zagor rejected
18:35:03tracktheripperyea but the company that makes Realizer make a lot of money by selling something that is just snake oil
18:35:50 Quit mauli ("Leaving")
18:36:13tracktheripperall Realizer is "Loudness On Ice" :-)
18:36:40bobTHCit's normal all this type of software are based on software based DSP and we can't have enough cpu power o do that
18:37:21tracktheripperbasically all it does is supercharge the bass and treble without adding any extra quality
18:38:24tracktheripperBut I wouldn't mind seeing that "lineselector" to replace the arrowcursor
18:39:29 Join edx [0] (
18:40:14quelsarukhi edx
18:40:22tracktheripperhi Edx
18:41:20tracktheripperIm worried incase Rockbox is now gonna be biased towards those who have the 8Mb RAM mod
18:42:36tracktheripperwhich leaves the majority of users out
18:45:25PsycoXulno, it's not
18:45:28PsycoXulwhy would it be
18:45:31PsycoXulHow would it be?
18:46:10PsycoXulthe only difference currently between the version for the 8MB mods and the other is that the version for the 8MB mods will use the 8MB
18:49:02tracktheripperoh right
18:49:10tracktheripperits just something I saw in the daily builds
18:49:34tracktheripperI really wanna "mod" mine but cannot source the chip
18:50:07tracktheripperany chance can someone mod mine for me please?
18:53:09tracktheripperWill the 8Mb version of Rockbox have extra features not present in the 2Mb version?
18:54:12Schnueffif someones programmes something
18:56:42PsycoXullike what?
18:56:59Schnuefflike ..
18:57:02tracktherippererm? timestretch?
18:57:22PsycoXulhow can you do that any easier with 8MB than 2MB?
18:57:27bobTHCtimestrech is not a memory problem, just a DSP programming problem
18:57:51tracktheripperwell 8Mb could provide bigger playlists than 10,000
18:58:07PsycoXulplaylists are stored on disk not ram
18:58:16PsycoXulthe 10,000 limit is arbitrary afaik
18:58:35Schnueffu need one pointer into the file per item, i think
18:58:37tracktheripperyea but they are loaded into RAM when starten
18:58:53bobTHCfeature like next song precharging can be improve with 8mrg
18:58:57PsycoXulyou just need an index
18:59:07PsycoXulit reads the file when it needs to
18:59:11PsycoXulsince it has to read the mp3 data anyway
18:59:14bobTHCfor ppl who zap alot
18:59:41PsycoXulbobTHC: yeah but i think thats more a problem with the ring-buffer system they use than the amount of ram isn't it?
19:00:03bobTHCfor the playlist limit?
19:00:25bobTHCi think too, not a memory pb
19:00:51PsycoXuli mean for precharging songs for zapping
19:01:57PsycoXulbut i what i said about the ring-buffer might not even apply to what you meant by that
19:02:06PsycoXulso you're probably right
19:02:07bobTHCit's requier to change the buffering system
19:03:02PsycoXulmaybe 8MB ones could run linux
19:03:24bobTHCnosense to run linux.....
19:03:57PsycoXulsure there is
19:04:04PsycoXuli wanna use vim on my player
19:04:13Schnueffcute :)
19:04:15bobTHCrockbox is better because is light and shape for the hardware, linux is too big
19:04:27bobTHCmicro linux too
19:04:42PsycoXulyou can strip down and shape linux for the hardware
19:04:44bobTHCvim without keyboard....
19:05:03PsycoXulmy pda can run vim
19:05:13PsycoXulit don't have a keyboard either
19:05:21PsycoXuland nethack
19:05:29bobTHCwith handwrinting recognition ?
19:05:47PsycoXulwell it's got the various SIP methods
19:05:54PsycoXulincluding a keyboard and handwriting recognition
19:06:00PsycoXulbut it doesn't have a Real keyboard
19:06:20PsycoXulthe linux project for my pda uses the direction pad and some other buttons for a keyboard
19:06:23PsycoXulwe could do the same
19:06:33PsycoXulit's probably similar to rockbox's keyboard
19:06:55bobTHClinux with just hardware specific driver is about 1 meg, rockbox 200k
19:07:27PsycoXuloh come on
19:07:27bobTHC200k with games and options....
19:07:43PsycoXuli've had kernels for x86 with a bunch of stuff compiled that could've been modules being <1MB
19:08:49bobTHClook@ the linux for ipod.... 1.25meg without UI
19:09:03PsycoXuli've seen distros with web and ftp servers, web browsers, all kinds of stuff, even X with a choice of a couple different wm's
19:09:06PsycoXulall on 2 floppy's
19:09:22bobTHCof course
19:09:33PsycoXulit was trinux iirc that i tried that had all that
19:09:47PsycoXuland there was a 3rd floppy for some other stuff
19:10:05PsycoXuli bet the ipod linux isn't optimized as well as it could be either
19:10:11PsycoXulit's still a fairly new project isn't it?
19:10:39PsycoXulthere's lots of stuff out there now for embedded linux
19:10:41bobTHClinux is in the ipod
19:11:01PsycoXulto make it leaner and more specific to whatever purposes and hardware
19:12:12bobTHCand this linux version made by apple(with all spec and optimized by pro...i think) , with UI and not a lot a feature is about 1 meg
19:13:09PsycoXulpaid programmers with access to all the info doesn't necessarily mean that it's as lean and optimized as it can be
19:13:21PsycoXulin fact from all examples of such situations i've seen, it doesn't
19:13:24bobTHCfor sure the best example is rockbox
19:14:26PsycoXulso you see, you never know :p
19:16:36bobTHCbut look, rockbox don't use linux, and run greatly, we can devellop for it, reuse already made programm with little change ....why use linux for specialised device with little screen ....
19:17:32bobTHCfor is net support?
19:17:35bobTHCfor vim?
19:17:42bobTHCvor is dev tools?
19:18:58bobTHCsorry time to go see u soon....
19:19:13 Part bobTHC
19:19:58 Quit tracktheripper ("Leaving")
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20:44:15 Join tracktheripper [0] (
20:50:45tracktheripperI love to see my name in the Credits list but sadly cannot program :-(
20:51:12quelsarukpay zagor a big amount of money and hw may include you ;)
20:51:45tracktheripperlol Zagor doesn't like me unfortunatly :-(
20:53:40tracktherippernever mind :-)
20:55:08tracktheripperheehee :-)
20:56:18tracktheripperI have a job for you Quel
20:56:45quelsarukwhich one?
20:57:36tracktheripperSince the Inverter is now done, I wondered if you can do the "full line selector where the chosen option is negative-ised" patch :-)
20:58:17quelsaruki don't understand
20:58:40tracktheripperyou know what the menus look like in a Nokia mobile phone?
20:59:33quelsaruki had a 3310
20:59:57quelsarukbut now i have siemens and i forgot everything from the nokia :)
21:01:15quelsarukcould you explain that for me?
21:01:37tracktheripperDo you have menus where you have a line that you move to choose the option you desire?
21:02:14quelsaruksome kind of under-line?
21:03:09quelsarukthat shouln't be hard to implement... just draw a line or something like that
21:03:49tracktheripperQuel you know the Set Time menu where u move a block to the parameter u wanna set?
21:04:27quelsaruki know
21:04:42tracktheripperI mean something like that for the main menus
21:04:53tracktheripperthat you move up and down to hilight the option u desire
21:05:01quelsaruknow i understand
21:05:17 Join GreyShadow [0] (
21:05:20tracktheripperhence "negative-ised" as the option selected is inverted
21:05:22quelsarukwell.. as soon as i recover my poor and fried jukebox ill try
21:05:40tracktheripperbut u know what im saying?
21:07:04quelsaruki think so
21:07:06quelsarukmaybe no
21:07:09quelsarukbut think so
21:07:37 Nick seb-sleep is now known as _seb_ (
21:08:04tracktheripperA line would look much better than an arrow
21:08:39quelsaruki'm getting crazy
21:09:00quelsarukcould you make a "snapshot" using photoshop or something like that??
21:09:32tracktheripperI could draw an idea of what im saying
21:09:36barker`codingI want the negatised line too, track.
21:10:03tracktheripperso u know what im saying Barker?
21:10:30barker`codingIt's in the Joaquim build.
21:11:05tracktherippernow if only someone will incorporate that into Rockbox
21:11:18barker`codingYeah, it'd be nice to have it as a single patch that could be merged.
21:11:26barker`codingbut all of Joaquim's changes are one giant patch.
21:11:37barker`codingSo, you get the inverted bar, you get the alternate ui, too.
21:11:40barker`codingwhich I don't really like.
21:11:48barker`codingThough, I do like his updated icons a lot.
21:11:52 Quit Snorlax (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:12:34tracktheripperI really want that line
21:12:43tracktheripperbut Zagor said its too slow
21:12:51barker`coding... it's not too slow.
21:13:01barker`codingat least, not on the joaquim builds.
21:13:09tracktheripperIt would be far easier to read than the arrow
21:13:49tracktheripperBarker whats the link for the redesigned interface?
21:15:01quelsarukthen i understand what you want to say
21:15:44tracktheripperso Quel u know what Barker is on about?
21:17:35barker`codingUm... just a second. I'll find it.
21:18:22tracktherippercheers. Im just gonna draw a pic so others know what we are on about
21:19:11 Join Snorlax [0] (
21:19:38 Quit ken0 (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
21:22:19tracktheripperIm just doing a picture showing the difference between the 2 selectors
21:22:36tracktheripperYou will download the pic from my request "Change the arrowcursor to a mobile-phone selector line"
21:22:57barker`codingwhat's the url?
21:24:49tracktheripperYou will see the request in Feature Requests. Ill upload it to that
21:24:55tracktheripperyou can download it from there
21:30:18 Quit Snorlax ()
21:32:38quelsaruki must go
21:32:47quelsarukcu tomorrow
21:34:19 Quit quelsaruk ("KVIrc 3.0.0-beta1 "Eve's Avatar"")
21:38:21 Join Snorlax [0] (
21:40:26 Join Stephen [0] (Stephen@
21:46:48StephenJust wondering if theres any one here who knows much about rockbox on the FM recorder
21:49:12 Quit Snorlax ()
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21:52:43 Quit Stephen ()
22:09:27tracktheripperdon't know much about FM rec
22:21:34 Quit tracktheripper ("Leaving")
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23:00:09tracktherippergod some feature requests are weird
23:09:12 Join mauli [0] (
23:10:31mauliHi! I just wondered which AC/DC Car - Adaptor I could use to recharge the batteries in Recorder 20...
23:11:56 Join mauli1 [0] (
23:12:03 Quit mauli1 (Client Quit)
23:14:00maulianybody at home?
23:15:27 Join Stephen [0] (Stephen@
23:15:45 Join Bagder [0] (~daniel@
23:17:43mauliat least, someone :-)
23:17:51maulii've got a question
23:18:17tracktheripperHi Badger
23:18:33mauliif i want to buy an ac/dc car-adaptor for charging, which specifications is it supposed to have?
23:20:28StephenI have a couple of questions also, when someone's free
23:20:35Bagdertry us
23:20:48maulionly one question left:
23:21:20maulithe charger shipped by archos uses 1.2A, in the FAQ they recommend 0.6A, why's that?
23:21:36StephenOK the first one isn't actually rockbox related, it's about the original archos firmware I still use it to listen to the radio etc. Suprise suprise archos support has been less than helpful
23:22:12Bagdermauli: I don't know much about those things, I just know what the wise guys have put in that FAQ
23:22:45mauliok, nevertheless thanks, i'll continue to try...
23:23:41StephenOn my FM Recorder when I load my archos I have a small icon 2 spaces over from the "stop" icon on the top row which looks like |<, if I turn on repeat etc the icon appears on the right of it, so it's not that far over
23:23:41StephenI was just wondering what this icon is as I can't find any reference to it in the manual
23:24:02Bagderin the original firmware?
23:24:15Stephenit also appears on the "archos jukebox charged..." screen, it seems to have no use or way of turning it off
23:24:25BagderI have no idea
23:24:39BagderI can't even remember when I used it the last time, and I've never seen it run on an FM
23:24:50StephenDamn :D I'll have to phone them tomorrow then :D
23:24:57StephenOK the rockbox question
23:25:09Stephenwhere is the deep discharge option? I can't find it anywhere
23:26:14Bagderit's not available on FM versions, iirc
23:27:15StephenOh right? any idea why cause it says it's on recorders, which is what the FM is
23:27:39Bagdernah, the FM is a "FM recorder" ;-)
23:27:50Bagderits a newcomer in the Rockbox family
23:28:00Bagderthe docs still lack a bit on the separation I guess
23:28:39StephenOK I see. Hopefully that will be added as I've had some had times with things with rechargeable batteries being left plugged in
23:29:10Stephenlike my laptop :D all of a sudden the battery wouldn't hold more than 12 minutes of charge because it had been used plugged in most of the time with the battery in
23:29:40BagderI think the FM charging is out of rockbox control
23:29:58Bagderbut I'm not 100% sure of that
23:30:25StephenOK thanks
23:30:28 Quit Stephen ()
23:43:19MTthe archos firmware playlist functionality is somewhat 'poor'
23:43:29Bagderhehe, yeah
23:43:47Bagderpoor is a too positive word to describe it ;-)
23:53:15MTits finished :)
23:53:35MTi dont know how long that playlist was, but it took its sweet time :0
23:54:42BagderI do remember that
23:54:49Bagdermakes playlist unusable
23:57:52 Quit mauli ("Leaving")

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