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#rockbox log for 2003-03-21

00:07:30 Join TemptedFate [0] (
00:07:51 Quit TemptedFate (Client Quit)
00:11:40 Quit Temfate (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:20:05 Join Nibbler [0] (
00:30:52***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:35:18 Join tracktheripper [0] (
00:35:18 Quit Nibbler (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
00:37:59 Join Temfate [0] (
00:38:24Temfateanyone know of a backup to the archos 8mb upgrade page? It's been down for quite awhile now.
00:41:04Temfatenevermind; got the google cache of it instead.
00:43:28tracktheripperIs anyone else having problems with the Tetris game?
00:45:43tracktheripperIf you lose the display shows garbled code and the HD light blinks off and on
01:08:26 Quit tracktheripper ("Leaving")
01:27:37 Quit Temfate (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:00:16 Join LinusN [200] (
02:20:18 Join Nibbler [0] (
02:30:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:38:13 Join elinenbe [0] (
02:38:13 Quit Nibbler (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:40:23elinenbeLinusN: it is late −− go to sleep (unless you are fixing bugs in the Doom port)
02:41:26LinusNsorry dad, i'll go to bed immediately! :-)
02:42:05elinenbeI am watching this crappy soap opera on the TV called "war"
02:42:31LinusNwhat's that?
02:42:58elinenbeit is this thing taking place in Kuwait and Iraq
02:43:24LinusNaha, now i get it :-)
02:46:19elinenbeLinusN: did you clean up the VBRFix code?
02:46:34LinusNi am working on it
03:08:50PsycoXulok tonight i backup my archos
03:08:55PsycoXulit quit charging
03:09:05PsycoXulso i gotta take it in to bestbuy
03:09:16PsycoXulhopefully they'll give me a recorder hehe
03:09:40PsycoXulbut so i pretty much gotta run it off the batteries i guess to back it up
03:10:35elinenbedo you have an external battery charger? I have on of those 1 hour chargers and they are the best.
03:11:05PsycoXuli've got 2-sets of 1850mah, 2 sets of the 1500mah that it came with (though i dunno how well 1 of the sets holds a charge...) and a set of 1600mah ones
03:11:25PsycoXulyeah i got 2 external chargers but they're both the 15-hour ones
03:11:31PsycoXulor 14-hour whatever
03:14:55 Join Bio_Hazard [0] (
03:15:59Bio_Hazardi thought itd be deserted
03:16:50Bio_Hazardanyone want to take a crack at a problem im having?
03:17:24elinenbeBio_Hazard: stay away from the reactor
03:17:43 Join hardeep [0] (1098@
03:19:04Bio_Hazardi loaded the mar 02 BE AJBR build and it worked fine but all of a sudden it mapped the down arrow as either down, left, or play. i updated to todays build and it remained, i unloaded rockbox and it stopped... so im pretty sure its rockbox...
03:19:33Bio_Hazardeverything else works fine
03:19:44LinusNBio_Hazard: have the device with you now?
03:20:00LinusNgo to menu->debug->i/o ports
03:20:51LinusNwatch AN5 and press Left, Play, Down and Right
03:21:00LinusNreport the values
03:21:26Bio_Hazardi see an0 -an 3
03:21:32LinusNin the right column
03:22:17LinusNhave you done any changes to it lately, like changed the charger or the batteries?
03:23:01Bio_Hazardi fluxuates badly on all of them
03:23:25LinusNit should fluctuate a little
03:24:14LinusNDown should read 3Fx something
03:24:27Bio_Hazarddown is sending 3Fx
03:24:35LinusNRight should be 18x
03:25:17Bio_Hazardsometimes it sends 3Cx
03:25:35LinusNuh oh
03:26:15LinusNis it different depending on how you press it?
03:26:46LinusNyou know, hard/soft or in a special angle
03:27:00Bio_Hazarddirectly down in the middle
03:27:18Bio_Hazardbut i checked, and its not depressing the play button
03:27:59Bio_Hazardit dosent PHYSICLY press play
03:28:44LinusNit looks like your down button is slightly bad
03:28:58Bio_Hazardthats what i was thinking
03:29:12LinusNhave you opened it?
03:29:15Bio_Hazardits still in warranty tho :)
03:29:35LinusNi suggest you return it
03:30:06Bio_Hazardi was hoping i wasant going to need that... *shigh*
03:30:14Bio_Hazardoh well
03:30:22LinusNit may be possible to fix in s/w
03:30:41LinusNbut i'm not very keen on making changes in rockbox because of one damaged unit
03:30:57Bio_Hazardi see your point
03:31:24Bio_Hazardi guess ill send it in...
03:31:35Bio_Hazardtake RB off it first :)
03:31:59LinusNmake sure you delete the .rockbox dir too
03:32:56Bio_Hazardi had an easy feature idea the other day... a "on the fly file renaming" function...
03:33:06Bio_Hazardwhere do i submit it
03:34:49LinusNread the bottom of this page:
03:36:56Bio_Hazardthats a nice list of requests...
03:38:29Bio_Hazardoh i found it...
03:38:33Bio_HazardNM then
03:40:49 Join ken0__ [0] (marklar2@
03:40:49 Quit ken0 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:40:57Bio_Hazardwell... ok then! ill send in my unit...
03:41:05Bio_Hazardthanks for all your help!
03:42:31Bio_Hazardoh yea... how do you make a playlist? using the menu just makes an empty one
03:42:40LinusNit does?
03:42:51LinusNwhat version of rockbox?
03:43:01Bio_Hazardi select it and it says "end of list"
03:43:07LinusNwhat version of rockbox?
03:44:22LinusNwoops, didn't work for me either...
03:47:11LinusNwow, looks like an old bug has returned...
03:51:11 Join Temfate [0] (
03:51:29LinusNnasty, i can't repeat it
03:51:34LinusNit works the second time
03:51:41TemfateIs there any better disasembler than the one in the tools dir?
03:51:50Temfateit seems to be missing some ops.
03:52:03LinusNTemfate: what ops are missing?
03:52:25Bio_Hazardi dont know anyhing about programming, im a hardware guy...
03:52:35Temfatenevermind; was looking at the NOP
03:52:41Temfate'guess you listed as ???
03:53:06LinusNwe didn't write the disass i'm afraid
03:53:30TemfateI see... Have you identified any parts of the fm firmware's FM calls yet?
03:53:36TemfateI'm starting to look.
03:53:38LinusNbut i'm pretty sure it displays the nop correctly
03:54:06LinusNTemfate: we have the data sheets, we don't need to disassemble the fm recorder firmware for that
03:54:10Temfateyou're right; it shows 09 to be NOP... But what is 00? It lists it as ???
03:54:23LinusNmaybe 00 is invalid then
03:55:11Temfatedoes the fm recorder start at 0x00000200?
03:55:32LinusNyes, the ROM firmware starts there
03:55:42LinusNoh, sorry
03:55:57LinusNit starts at the reset vector at 0
03:56:21LinusNthe RAM loaded firmware starts at 0x9000200
03:56:33LinusNthat's where the reset vector points, i think
03:56:47LinusNthe reset vector at 0x9000200 that is
03:56:52LinusNthe reset vector at 0x9000000 that is
03:57:06LinusN(i must be tired)
03:57:15Temfateheh. Thanks.
03:57:23TemfateI looked at the data sheet.
03:57:42TemfateI was being lazy wanting to steal some of archos code...
03:59:12LinusNTemfate: stealing disassembled code is not what i consider easy
03:59:32TemfateWell; I mean just the irq etc.
03:59:37Temfateerr, io
03:59:39LinusNwhat irq?
04:00:08Temfatehow well does the simulator work; I take it from the code it's rockbox only?
04:00:26LinusNof course it's rockbox only
04:00:30Temfateie. no sim for the archos firmware code?
04:00:38LinusNwe don't simulate the hardware
04:00:55LinusNwe simulate the LCD
04:00:57*Bio_Hazard is VERY confused...
04:01:17Temfatejust trying to get used to what I have to work with... I'm used to having to do everything in asm.
04:01:34LinusNwell, you can use C here :-)
04:01:48LinusNbut you'll have to debug it in the target
04:01:53LinusN(the fm code)
04:02:20Temfateyou mean that 2-way serial port for gdb use?
04:02:32Bio_Hazardwhy is the default contrast so dark?
04:02:43LinusNor just print debug values to the LCD
04:02:56LinusNBio_Hazard: what ROM firmware do you have?
04:03:18Bio_HazardAJBR 15Gb
04:03:32LinusNBio_Hazard: the different hardware versions have different contrast on the LCD
04:03:53LinusNand we don't know (yet) which version has which contrast
04:04:05Bio_Hazardok i guess
04:04:16LinusNwhat contrast value is optimal for you?
04:04:35Bio_Hazardit starts at 75 or something...
04:04:54Temfate<note> same here for my fm rec. 1.30j of course...
04:05:01LinusNit should start at about 36
04:05:03Bio_Hazardand with my funky down button its VERY hard to find and lower the contrast
04:05:06TemfateI mean to 25...
04:07:21Bio_Hazardno wait... 57
04:07:47LinusNBio_Hazard: i found and killed the playlist bug you found, thanks for reporting
04:08:03Bio_Hazardthx for helping
04:08:22Temfatehave you traced the fm chips pins 6,7,10,11 yet?
04:08:31Bio_Hazardthe button prob just got worse
04:08:36LinusNi have traced all pins
04:09:12Temfatedid ya draw it yet??? <hint> :)
04:09:37Bio_Hazardwhy dont you put recording and recording settings i a submenu?
04:09:48*LinusN digs up his preliminary schematics
04:10:14LinusNBio_Hazard: a submenu for 2 items? why?
04:10:23Bio_Hazardi dunno...
04:11:24Bio_Hazardisint info in the menu the same as disk info and battery info in debug?
04:11:48LinusNBio_Hazard: not exactly, the debug has more info
04:12:02Bio_Hazardthen the info thing is redundant
04:12:06Bio_Hazardisint it?
04:12:29Bio_Hazardi was just thinking the menu was a little long...
04:12:29LinusNno, the debug screens are for debugging, not for users
04:13:11Bio_Hazardi think most "users" dont even know about rockbox...
04:13:24Temfatehmm; it looks like the chip can tune via serial data or io lines?
04:13:31LinusNBio_Hazard: still, most rockbox users aren't developers
04:14:02Bio_Hazardim not a developr and i can tell what some of the debug stuff is...
04:14:05Bio_Hazardo well
04:14:12LinusNTemfate: DO: PB4, CL: PB1, DI: PB0, CE: PB3
04:14:26LinusNBio_Hazard: the debug screens change all the time
04:14:45LinusNwhen we find new things to debug
04:15:18LinusNthere might be potentially dangerous thing that can be done by pressing the wrong key
04:15:44LinusNdebugging stuff, not for users, that's why we call it "Debug (keep out)"
04:16:14LinusNdon't go there unless you know what you are doing
04:16:41Temfateso it's serial... got it.
04:16:45Bio_Hazardim not arguing... i just thought the menu could be cleaned up a bit...
04:17:07LinusNyou think it's too long?
04:17:13Bio_Hazard3 pages
04:18:01LinusN2 for me
04:18:10LinusNlarge font?
04:18:25LinusNme too
04:19:52Bio_Hazardno... wait...
04:19:59Bio_Hazardnow its 2
04:20:27Bio_Hazardi was using a larger font
04:20:29 Join Nibbler [0] (
04:21:45Bio_Hazardi could submenu all that stuff into 1 page easily
04:22:01Bio_Hazardtherd be some short submenus... but...
04:23:54Bio_Hazardthe ... wasant a wait
04:24:27LinusNfile a feature request, or join the mailing list
04:25:04LinusNwe are all ears if you have a good idea for a menu tree
04:25:20Bio_Hazardill write one up if you want...
04:26:56Bio_Hazarddid some testing... and my button problem IS RB
04:27:16LinusNBio_Hazard: no, your problem is not rockbox
04:27:30LinusNyes, rockbox may have problems with your unit
04:27:57Bio_Hazardit sends play 50% of the time in RB and its completley gone in AJBOS
04:28:05LinusNbut your Down key is definitely giving way too low values
04:28:42LinusNand the original firmware works because it has different voltage thresholds
04:29:32Bio_Hazardill try the last officail release of RB
04:30:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:31:16Bio_Hazardstill there
04:31:38LinusNwe haven't changed the thresholds in rockbox for ages
04:32:21Bio_Hazardwell this sux...
04:32:36Bio_Hazardim stuck with AJBROS
04:32:51TemfateIs it possible to make the threshold adjustable in the debug menu?
04:33:18LinusNBio_Hazard: i need you to report the lowest value you get in the debug menu
04:33:40Bio_Hazardlemme see
04:34:56Bio_Hazardman it takes forever to load (i know its non- fixable)
04:35:49 Join ken0 [0] (marklar2@
04:37:21Bio_Hazard3Ax was the LOWEST 3Fx (x=b-f) was normal
04:37:38LinusNthe threshold is at 384
04:37:48Bio_Hazardi dont know hex
04:37:54LinusNbelow 384->Play
04:37:59Bio_Hazardi need to learn
04:38:33Bio_Hazardso that means.......
04:38:43Bio_Hazardim lost
04:39:10LinusNthat means that according to the debug menu, you don't have a problem :-)
04:39:34Bio_Hazardthis sux for me...
04:39:40Bio_Hazardoh well
04:39:46Temfatequestion: you know if the FM tuner xtal is shared with the sh1?
04:39:53LinusNno it is separate
04:40:09Temfatewould have been a problem
04:41:22Bio_Hazardwait a second... numbers come before letters in hex right?
04:41:48Bio_Hazardthen the lowest i get it 35X
04:42:21Temfatef = 15 decimal
04:43:17Bio_Hazardlowest is 35x normal is 3Fx
04:43:28 Quit ken0__ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
04:43:34Bio_Hazardim STILL screwed...
04:43:35LinusNBio_Hazard: then i am surprised that it works for the original firmware
04:43:59Temfatewhat are these numbers? Maybe I should scroll up?
04:44:18Bio_Hazardit just started doing this...
04:44:27LinusNTemfate: the keys are read using an A/D converter
04:44:32Bio_Hazardabout noon today...
04:44:52Bio_Hazardid been using RB for a month...
04:44:59Bio_Hazardso its a new development
04:45:04 Join ken0_ [0] (marklar2@
04:45:25LinusNi have to go to bed now
04:45:37Temfatewhat part of the world you in?
04:45:39LinusNit's 4:50 am i sweden
04:45:48LinusNnite all
04:45:55 Part LinusN
04:46:19Bio_Hazardim intriuged about my problem
04:46:29Temfatewhat level your battery at?
04:46:39Bio_Hazardi have no clue...
04:46:49Temfatemaybe it's getting low? :)
04:46:53Bio_Hazardit goes up and down
04:47:14Bio_Hazardi should discharge and recharge
04:47:52Bio_Hazardwhile plugged in it still does it
04:48:01Temfatesounds good. This data sheet seems to show some nice tuner abilities if they implemented the hardware right...
04:48:23Temfateeven plugged in eh?
04:48:55Temfatetry dropping it. :)
04:49:16Bio_Hazardshow it whos boss
04:49:30Bio_Hazardi dont think that would work
04:49:47Temfateoh, ok.
04:50:11TemfateI'm not to up on everything rockbox does yet... I'm mainly trying to figure out how to implement the fm tuner.
04:50:29Bio_Hazardit dosent do fm yet?
04:50:53Temfatewell it'll run on a fm unit; but doesn't support the tuner or recording of the tuner yet.
04:51:01Bio_Hazardyou have a fm recorder?
04:51:16Temfateyep. It's just as cheap as the non-fm versions now...
04:51:25Bio_Hazardhow is the fm recorder? ive heard bad things about it...
04:52:16TemfateI haven't had any problems... The reception is poor; but with a properly implemented antenna or possibly better software control of the VFO it'll be better.
04:52:54Bio_Hazardi got mine because it was only $79 at circut city!
04:53:05Bio_Hazardsome sweet sale
04:53:24Bio_Hazardafter rebates of course
04:53:34Temfatenot bad... What unit? Don't tell me that's a 20gig; buy me a few if so!
04:53:49Bio_Hazardrecorder 15
04:54:28Bio_Hazardthe sale is over btw :P
04:55:18Temfatenot bad...
04:55:28Temfateheck the hd is worth that...
04:55:47Bio_Hazardit actually cost me %125 cause i messed up on one of the rebates (invalid)
04:56:04Bio_Hazardi mean $125
04:56:20 Quit hardeep ("[BX] Time wasted: all of it")
04:56:58Temfateah; the rebate thing... I'm still waiting on a hundred bucks from compaq for a laptop...
04:57:28Temfateit's been 9 weeks tomorrow!
04:57:52Bio_Hazardi got my cd burner for $10
04:57:52Bio_Hazardif of course the company didint all of a sudden go bankrupt
04:58:20Bio_Hazardso it was $59
04:59:09Bio_Hazardwell... time to unload RB... :'(
04:59:16 Join nord0296 [0] (
04:59:31Bio_Hazardaccept my fate...
04:59:54Bio_Hazardill still do that menu thing
05:00:22Temfatecool. so what kind of hardware you work on?
05:01:03Bio_Hazardi build custom comps... install hardware... TKOT
05:01:38Temfateah... easy stuff! That's what got me started in all honesty. build any cool duallies or watercooled setups yet?
05:01:48 Quit ken0 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
05:02:23Bio_Hazardyea, its too expensive to experiment with the hard stuff...
05:03:12 Quit nord0296 (Client Quit)
05:03:54Bio_Hazardmy knoweledge of hardware is my strong point... i can look at just about any computer part and tell you what it is... (cards and drives and such)
05:04:54Bio_Hazardalmost up to the core archetecture...
05:05:10Bio_Hazardbut i need to learn how to program...
05:05:17Bio_Hazardive got a few books...
05:05:54Temfateprogramming is easy
05:06:00TemfateI started with turbo pascal
05:06:05Bio_Hazardall i know is ACS
05:06:14Temfatebut in all honesty you should start with perl or python
05:06:22Temfatethen move to c/c++
05:06:45Bio_Hazardi know ACS and HTML (yea i know html is easy)
05:07:31TemfateComputer hardware is some great stuff though... I've got 2 main systems running in a distributed enviro with Tiger MP motherboards; one with 2x1600+ and the other with 2x1900+!!!!!!!!
05:07:40TemfateWoohoo!!!!!1 FEEL THOSE MIPS!!!!!!!!!!!!
05:08:51Bio_Hazardservers are fun to build...
05:09:09TemfateYes; moreso when they are yours!
05:09:22TemfateTook me many years to afford my setup though...
05:09:35TemfateNow I need an O-scope...
05:09:41TemfateRather DSO.
05:10:35Bio_Hazardwhen i write the new menu system, do you want me to use the menu system from todays build or the last officail one?
05:11:14Temfatenot talking to me are you? Linus took off. I'd guess base it on bleeding edge (current cvs build)
05:11:43Bio_Hazardyou seem to be the only one alive (BS me)
05:12:07TemfateBS me?
05:12:42Bio_Hazardbesides me
05:13:52TemfateWoohoo! First version of my code supporting FM tuner is done! And it works perfectly!!!!! It locks it up so nothing but turning off works! DAMN!
05:17:45Bio_Hazardsux for me still...
05:17:51Temfatehmm... Wrong io line!
05:18:03Temfateso your buttons just don't register sometimes?
05:18:21Bio_Hazardsometimes down registers a play
05:19:33Bio_Hazardabout 25% of the time
05:19:57Bio_Hazardwhat exactly does loudness do?
05:19:57Temfatehmm... linus said it's using a/d converters to register the keys. some kind of voltage divider maybe? So the threshold allows it to map out the voltage to which key?
05:20:19Bio_Hazardin sound options
05:20:58Temfateoh; for classical music originally; it boosts bass and treble and keeps mid flat... At least that's what it's supposed to do...
05:21:31Bio_Hazardjust do the bass and treble
05:21:32Temfatethey might have implemented it differently.
05:21:53Bio_Hazardok i guess
05:22:07Bio_Hazard(im doing the menu thing...)
05:23:24Temfatereturn set_sound(str(LANG_LOUDNESS), &global_settings.loudness,
05:23:25Temfate SOUND_LOUDNESS);
05:23:33Temfatethat's what loudness does!
05:24:38Temfatedunno; I'm trying find the set_sound function now... They are just sending a value to it...
05:28:21Bio_Hazardi sure wish that when a song finshed, it would switch to the selected song back in the menu... (toggleable)
05:28:45TemfateI'm sure that can be done...
05:28:51TemfateFeature request it...
05:29:17Bio_Hazardwhat is "short case sensitive"?
05:29:21Temfatealmost found the set_sound... It's an eq option valid from 0 to 100...
05:29:48Temfatedunno; where's it used?
05:30:13Bio_Hazardi mean "sort case sensitive"
05:31:16Bio_Hazardmenu>general>file view>sort mode>
05:31:22Temfatesounds like a option that allows the alphabetical sorting to be case sensitive or not...
05:31:42Bio_Hazardwhat good is that?
05:31:46Temfateie aa, ab, ac, AA, AB, AC or aa, AA, ab, AB
05:31:57Temfateuseful for some people
05:32:13Bio_Hazardyour example confused me...
05:32:32Bio_Hazardi get it
05:32:37TemfateIt means a and A have the same value or not
05:32:38Bio_Hazardhow worthless...
05:32:54PsycoXulit was a much requested feature
05:32:56Bio_Hazardi can think of not one use for that
05:33:03PsycoXulbut not everybody likes it so it became an option
05:33:12Bio_Hazardok i guess...
05:33:26Bio_HazardANOTHER LIFE FORM!!!
05:33:39PsycoXuli tried not make my presense known
05:33:54PsycoXulbut you crossed a threshold :p
05:34:00PsycoXuli just had to chime in
05:34:49PsycoXulsome people like to see everything that starts with a capital lettor sorted before the things that don't
05:34:52PsycoXulother people don't
05:34:54Bio_Hazardit just chills ya to the bone! nobody can ever have a private convorsation in a public chatroom anymore!
05:34:55PsycoXulit's a matter of preference
05:35:08PsycoXuland what they're used to since different file managers/OS's/etc do it the 2 different ways
05:35:08TemfateAARRGGGHHH; well I traced it; but still now have to find a value preset for LOUDNESS!!!!
05:35:53PsycoXulnah it's not private conversation
05:36:03PsycoXulit's about a lack of thought
05:37:20TemfateI guess loudness appears to be a volume multiplier...
05:38:08Bio_Hazardjust turn it up!
05:39:04TemfateI'd guess for some amplifiers the volume doesn't go high enough.
05:39:04Bio_Hazardi totally got rid of the genaral settings menu...
05:40:36Bio_Hazardwhat is ff/rw min step?
05:41:09Temfatedang it; I'm not looking for another one!
05:41:32Temfateguess! Try it!
05:41:47Bio_Hazardill put that one in the "controll freak" menu
05:42:16Bio_Hazardi dont think even the iPod does that...
05:42:43Temfatewhat? ipod sucks man... From what I've read it's no where near as hacked...
05:43:01PsycoXulTemfate: #ipodlinux
05:43:06PsycoXuli think
05:43:20Bio_Hazardits too expensive
05:43:33Temfategeez... they should post that somewhere... I've read around and didn't find that.
05:43:45TemfateBut I agree it's like twice the price.
05:44:04Bio_Hazardthey wanted $300 for 5GB!!!
05:44:20Bio_Hazardi got a 15Gb archos for $125
05:44:26Temfatethey aren't talking much in that channel
05:44:40Temfatewrong time of day?
05:45:51Bio_Hazardwhat is "play selected first"?
05:46:26Bio_Hazardjust what does it do not how does it work
05:47:17PsycoXulTemfate: no clue, i don't follow it
05:47:28PsycoXulsomebody in here was mentioning it at some time or another while i was lurking
05:47:42PsycoXulBio_Hazard: i'm not sure about that one heh
05:47:56Bio_Hazardi notice no difference
05:47:58TemfateI can't find it in the code either...
05:48:19Bio_Hazardill leave it out then
05:48:57*PsycoXul gets the feeling nobody's gonna like or use your new menu setup
05:49:51Bio_Hazardoh well
05:49:53Bio_Hazardim bored
05:50:07PsycoXullook at that
05:51:04Temfatebad, really bad... You need something to do!
05:51:22PsycoXulno this Is something i'm doing
05:51:43PsycoXuli just thought the patterns output by this program i wrote looked kinda neat
05:51:56PsycoXulso i made a small snippet of it into that page
05:52:03Temfatethat's the pattern gen?
05:52:06PsycoXulit also is very easy to visualize the data in that format
05:52:39PsycoXulit's a sine wave generator that outputs to (a format similar to) Sony's "Direct Stream Digital", the audio format that's used on SACD's
05:53:30Temfatecool... What are you planning... SACD is a pretty awesome format I've heard. Haven't seen it yet myself though...
05:53:40TemfateI've spent far to much time in the sat world...
05:53:49PsycoXuli say (a format similar to) because i've just done this based on the little i've read about it, i can't say that it's identical to it
05:54:48PsycoXulthe most technically in-depth information i've found on it is that it's 1 bit 2824400 Hz sampling
05:54:57PsycoXuland that 1's represent an increase in amplitude and 0's a decrease
05:55:10PsycoXulso i basically just do a loop on
05:55:12PsycoXul if (result > last_result) {
05:55:12PsycoXul bit=1;
05:55:12PsycoXul } else if (result < last_result) {
05:55:12DBUGSent KICK PsycoXul to server
05:55:12PsycoXul bit=0; } else {
05:55:12Kick(#rockbox PsycoXul :No flooding!) by logbot!
05:55:16 Join PsycoXul [0] (
05:55:17PsycoXuler heh
05:55:21PsycoXuldumb bot that's not a flood :p
05:55:29PsycoXulthat was 7 lines
05:55:59Temfatehmm... so it's only one voice at a time; or multiple streams?
05:56:20Bio_Hazardoops WW
05:56:57PsycoXula single stream of this can hold much more audio data than a single 44.1khz 16-bit PCM stream
05:57:04PsycoXulthis is ~2.8Mhz
05:57:32Temfatebut only 1-bit means one voice; or is there a protocol to tell it which voice etc between the packets?
05:57:41PsycoXulno it doesn't
05:57:50PsycoXulit's just a wave
05:58:17Temfateah; nevermind... So it's a full wave map with voice already mixed... got it.
05:58:18PsycoXulany recording is a complex wave of multiple waves effecting each other
05:58:43PsycoXulPCM or DSD either way only takes the whole result
05:58:45Temfatepretty tricky stuff...
05:59:05PsycoXulbecause thats all you get from a mic
05:59:18PsycoXulis how all the waves add and subtract each other
05:59:24TemfateI haven't studied sound formats much... you could teach me a lot! :)
06:00:02PsycoXuleach PCM sample is a number value for the amplitude of the wave at that sample's moment in time
06:00:34PsycoXulDSD is similar except it has many many more samples and each only (as far as i can tell) gives a signal in increase or decrease
06:01:10PsycoXulthe more densely packed the 0's the faster the decrease, and likewise with 1's and increase
06:01:36PsycoXulfrom what i can tell, a plateu or silence is just 01010101
06:01:54Temfatewait... so 0 is decrease and 1 is increase? How can it play a flat sample?
06:02:00Temfatenevermind; you read my mind...
06:02:00PsycoXulbasically the full 2.8Mhz cycle, whuch is far beyond our hearing range and gets cut out anyway with the low-pass filter
06:02:15PsycoXulwhich it'll go through on playback
06:02:57PsycoXulthis is just my guess anyway
06:03:00PsycoXulit seems workable and reasonable
06:03:02Temfateneat. so how does HDCD compare?
06:03:11PsycoXulno clue, know nothing about HDCD
06:03:51Temfateas far as I know it was just 24 bit recording on cd... but this SACD is supposed to be the thing of the future... you writing a codec or what?
06:04:29PsycoXulmy interest in this format is mainly because of my frustration with digital recording and processing hardware, software, and methods available to me
06:05:03PsycoXulmost digital effects suck heh
06:05:11PsycoXulunless they're ridiculously expensive
06:05:24PsycoXulgood analog effects are also ridiculously expensive
06:05:28PsycoXulin many cases
06:05:50Temfateso are you a dj or something? artist?
06:05:57PsycoXuli'm just starting with home recording
06:06:13PsycoXuli play the guitar
06:06:24PsycoXuli might sing if it sounds good which we'll see heh
06:07:07PsycoXuli wrote this sine wave generator so that i could see a few things about the processability of this format
06:07:11PsycoXuland also about it's compressability
06:07:28TemfateI'd imagine it compresses quite well.
06:07:34PsycoXuli made a 5 minute long thing of 440hz sine wave
06:07:36PsycoXulcame out to 101MB
06:07:41PsycoXulbzip2'd it to 12K
06:07:50PsycoXulof course it's just a single frequency repeated over and over
06:08:20PsycoXulso i don't expect anything similar for a full range of frequencies and lack of consistent repitition characteristic of a musical recording
06:08:28Temfatetrue... so did you write a decoder that sounds decent?
06:08:44PsycoXulbut it's still kindof an interesting ratio heh
06:08:58PsycoXulwriting a DSD->PCM converter is the next thing i need to work on
06:09:13PsycoXulthe first approach i'll try will be
06:09:15PsycoXulaverage 16 bits into a 16bit value at 176525 Hz
06:09:17PsycoXulstart with 0, add <value?> per 1 and subtract it per 0
06:09:20PsycoXuleach subsequent 16-bit averaging starts with the previous sample value and
06:09:20PsycoXulcontinues in this manner.
06:09:36PsycoXulthen use sox to do a 22khz lowpass filter and convert it to 44.1khz for listening to see if it gives anything decent
06:10:11PsycoXuli chose 16 bits because it was the first value i tried that the 2.8mhz sampling rate devided cleanly into an integral hz
06:10:38Temfatehmm. so whats <value> going to be???
06:10:52PsycoXulnot sure yet
06:11:23PsycoXuli'll write my code so that i can plug in various values for the hz, number of bits to average, and the value that each bit counts for
06:11:29Temfateyou may have to interpolate it based on frequency of 1 or 0 in the 2.8mhz stream
06:12:19PsycoXuli know somebody who has an SACD and am hoping we can figure out some way to use their DVD-ROM drive to rip a bit of it for me to play with
06:13:22Temfateif you just raw-read some sectors you should find the pattern easily unless they purposely encode it to hide from rippers.
06:14:26PsycoXulthe biggest problem is he's using windows and so i dunno what to tell him to try
06:14:39Temfateget the gnu tools!
06:15:25TemfateI think there's a dd that works well under windows.
06:15:37PsycoXulhow do you tell it what device to use?
06:15:48Temfateok; you got me on that one!
06:15:57Temfatelinux boot disc!
06:16:03PsycoXulhehe thats what i was thinking
06:16:07PsycoXulit's beck - sea change
06:16:14PsycoXulwhich i Think is both hybrid and 5-channel
06:16:36PsycoXulof course the cd-audio portion of it's only 2-channel
06:17:02PsycoXulbut that complicates things a bit
06:17:12Temfatehmm.... pioneering a new hack is always fun.
06:17:59PsycoXulmy big interest in all this is 2 things... 1, making digital effects that really sound good heh
06:18:35PsycoXuland 2, the possibility of implimenting this type of sampling in some sort of cheap circuit that i can then send through USB and make a cheap DSD recorder
06:19:02Bio_Hazardwhats the difference between hd spindown and hd poweroff
06:19:15Temfate2 should be do-able; dunno about 1!
06:19:32PsycoXulwell i don't care about realtime
06:19:43PsycoXuli don't expect to be able to do realtime effects on 2.8Mhz stream in software
06:19:48PsycoXulat least not with my coding skill level
06:19:59PsycoXulit takes my program 6 seconds to generate 1 second of a simple sine wave in this format
06:20:37Temfatehow fast is the machine?\
06:20:40PsycoXulbut this stream sorta bypasses all the aliasing problems that're the biggest thing that makes digital effects suck
06:20:43PsycoXul1Ghz athlon
06:21:23Temfateah. I'd like to see the code if you don't mind... how big is a 1 second sample?
06:21:36PsycoXuldo the math
06:21:47PsycoXul2824400/8 bytes
06:22:05PsycoXulabout 345K
06:22:25 Quit elinenbe (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
06:23:23PsycoXulit's very dirty and straight forward
06:23:36PsycoXuli mostly use bash for stuff and only C when i wanna do things that bash is too slow for or just can't do
06:24:05Temfateheh... you should try perl instead of bash!
06:24:10PsycoXulthere's probably lots of technical problems
06:24:11PsycoXuli hate perl :p
06:24:18Temfateperl's most like c!
06:24:24PsycoXulbash is my friend
06:24:26PsycoXulperl's mean to me
06:24:37PsycoXulheh yeah and i avoid C :p
06:24:41Temfatebesides I'm a tcsh guy...
06:24:50PsycoXulpointers frustrate me
06:25:09Temfatepointers can be your friend so long as you don't go to NULL!
06:25:25PsycoXulC can be odd sometimes too
06:25:38PsycoXulwith this program, mostly how you see it, i was having really weird problems
06:25:38TemfateThey let you dump memory from supercomputers with classified info! :) Don't ask!
06:26:29PsycoXulbut i was having a problem where this atof() seemed to work fine unless i printf'd it's result After the atof() call and then the atof() call would return odd things
06:26:47Temfatedang it; I reformatted not long ago on this windows box and haven't put djgpp on it yet...
06:26:54PsycoXulor some odd thing along those lines
06:27:17PsycoXulit was very non-sensical and i thought i was going crazy
06:27:22Temfatehmm... you printf'd it as %f right?
06:27:42PsycoXuli even sent the code to a couple friends and they couldn't find anything wrong with it either
06:27:56PsycoXulwhat it turned out to be was that i forgot to add an include for stdlib.h
06:28:22Temfatethat's odd.
06:28:27PsycoXulno complaints, no errors or warnings, compiled and ran happily
06:28:31PsycoXuljust behaved really screwy
06:28:35Temfateit didn't complain at the linker though?
06:29:30PsycoXulthen i was looking at the man page to double-check i had all the paramaters right for all the functions involved
06:29:48PsycoXuland then looked to see what header it needed, and looked at the top of my file and it wasn't there
06:29:52PsycoXuladded it and everything fell into line
06:30:45PsycoXulit also took me a while to figure out how to make sin give me the frequency sine wave i wanted in 2.8mhz sampling rate
06:30:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:31:06PsycoXuli eventualy figured it out though i'm still not quite sure Why it works how it does
06:31:16TemfateI can see where that would take some trial and error.
06:32:12PsycoXuland then finding a combination of decimal precision and amplitude multiplier that gave me nice looking patterns of 1's and 0's flipping in smooth curves rather than just solid blocks of 0's and solid blocks of 1's
06:32:56PsycoXuli tried not messing with the decimal precision
06:33:21PsycoXulbut couldn't find any multipliers that gave me anything other than either all 01010101's or all solid blocks
06:33:31Temfateguess I'll have to run it to understand that one.
06:33:42PsycoXulso i ended up having to do the
06:34:14PsycoXuljust so that i could force 2 values to match and give me things like 001001001 instead of all 0's
06:35:07TemfateI gotta go; star trek voyager just came on... but I'll be on here tomorrow again.
06:35:17PsycoXulluckily when i had it all working it was almost trivial to make it take freq, time, and amplitude as arguments heh
06:35:21PsycoXulok, see ya
06:35:36Temfatecool. Talk to ya later.
06:35:46 Quit Temfate ("---> just died of caffine overdose...")
06:38:56Bio_Hazardim done with the new menu setup
06:40:53Bio_HazardBe back tomorrow...
06:41:05 Part Bio_Hazard
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08:45:30adi|homewhat i miss?
08:54:46*dwihno is trying to store some data from a mysql table
08:54:52dwihnoI get fishy errors :D
09:01:59adi|homeahh :)
09:14:28 Join quelsaruk [0] (
09:15:17dwihnomorning quel!
09:15:29dwihnoMuzzy is the monster who eat clocks, right?
09:15:44dwihnoAnd speaks like he is really sleepy?
09:16:00quelsaruki'm muzzy
09:16:03quelsarukbig muzzy
09:16:16quelsaruka price for dwihno!!
09:16:31dwihnoDon't tell me it's a goat.
09:17:45quelsaruka mini-goat! you can have it in your pocket, ready to use it anywhere, anytime :)
09:21:33 Join matsl [0] (
09:22:08quelsaruka digi-goat
09:22:14quelsarukdigievolutes and so on
09:22:23quelsarukit's better than a pokegoat
09:22:23dwihnosounds pretty funky...
09:24:07quelsarukit's cool
09:30:51dwihnoYum! Fralla!
09:35:08dwihnoMuy bien! :D
09:35:11dwihnoMuy tastefull!
09:35:14dwihnoWith cucumber and paprika
09:36:01quelsarukwhat's fralla??
09:36:26dwihnoa bun of bread
09:36:47quelsarukuna tostada
09:36:51dwihnotostada! :D
09:37:01dwihnoUne granda tostada! Muy bien!
09:38:37quelsarukbtw, have you seen gangs of new york?
09:39:56 Join tantus [0] (
09:40:19dwihnonot yet
09:40:34quelsarukor me it was boring
09:40:36quelsaruktoo slow
09:41:19quelsarukit's ok.. but, don't see it at 12:00 pm, or you'll get asleep
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12:21:38*matsl is away: I'm busy
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13:13:41Bagderwork work work
13:14:42quel|outdon't tell me that!
13:14:51quel|outi've been working all morning
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15:25:25 Join nono [0] (
15:25:38nonohello !
15:26:19nonoI have a "dummy" question about firmware installation on archos !
15:27:13nonoif I install the rockbox firmware, is it possible to return (recover) the original firmware ?
15:27:25dwihnoof course
15:27:26nonoand how ?
15:27:31dwihnoyou simply erase the rockbox firmware filew
15:27:35TBoyyep you just delete the ajz on your
15:27:35dwihnosimple as 1, 2, 7
15:27:45TBoyyou were faster
15:28:26nonoI will try it now...
15:28:41nonothanks a lot !
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18:02:48Temfatequestion for someone I hope: does $50 each sound decent for the 8mb memory chips?
18:03:08Temfateor would I be being ripped off?
18:04:50 Join Phoe-chan [0] (
18:05:30quelsaruki haven't made the mod
18:05:35quelsaruklook at the mail list
18:06:27TemfateI did; from what they said it's extremely rare and you have to pay whatever someone offers... Just wanted to find out if someone had found better.
18:06:38Phoe-chanexcuse me, but does any one have a working knowledge of the guts of the Recorder FM? Mine is going pearshaped and I cannot figure out why.
18:07:08Temfateit's changing shapes? That's pretty bad!
18:07:46 Join LinusN [200] (
18:07:53quelsarukhi LinusN!
18:07:57LinusNPhoe-chan: what do you want to know about the fm?
18:08:02LinusNhi quelsaruk
18:08:32Phoe-chanthe contrast on it is going. Is there any way that the display could physically lose its intensity?
18:08:57Phoe-chanI've had it about 3 weeks and this morning it just faded to nothing, with rockbox set to max contrast I can just read it still
18:09:04LinusNhmmm, everything is possible
18:09:15LinusNi guess you should return it
18:09:23Phoe-chanah, so it is feasable. Damn, I was hoping it wasn't mechanical failure.
18:09:32Temfateif you delete rockbox does it still occur I take it?
18:09:42Phoe-chanyes, the basic OS is paled out as well
18:10:03Phoe-chandamn, another 6 month fight with a tech company... time to get my walkman out of storage.
18:10:38Temfatewell; 3 weeks should be fairly short; just return wherever you bought it...
18:10:48Temfateor did you mail order?
18:10:55Phoe-chanUnfortunately it was purchased online, so it will be the same degree of fighting
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18:11:20Phoe-chancoupled with the fact that archos will not even return my e-mails, its looking pretty bleak.
18:12:32Temfateyea; I've heard archos is not to customer friendly... Don't they have a phone number? 1 949 609 1400
18:12:40Temfatethat's a usa one...
18:12:49Phoe-chanerk, this is a new wrinkle. Wont turn on.
18:13:03Phoe-chanpowers up, then powers straight down.
18:13:19TemfateI had that happen last night; hold the power on button for a bit.
18:13:42Phoe-chanah yes. Still faded, but alive again
18:13:57Phoe-chandoes rockbox have a toggle for the deep disscharge option?
18:14:22Phoe-chanI shall try bleeding the battery tonight and completely recharging it. See if its a power issue.
18:15:24Temfatetry just running it plugged in... If it's a power issue that'll clear it up.
18:16:17Phoe-chaneven if there is, for some obscure reason, a memory effect in the cells?
18:16:40Phoe-chan(I'm trying to disscount everything to avoid having to send it away, because it still actually works... its just pale.)
18:28:52 Quit Phoe-chan ("[BX] :Your Scwhartz is big, but mine is bigger.....")
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19:01:01quelsarukdwihn0r: what are u doing here at this hours??
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19:20:20Mode"#rockbox -o logbot " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
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19:49:14quelsarukhi edx
19:53:26quelsarukcu next week
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22:54:42bitjockeySorry for bothering, but I've searched your site for more than an hour and I haven't realized if on a Player 6000 you have the queue function or not
22:55:24adi|workdepends on what version you use
22:55:37adi|workqueueing is only available in daily builds, it was not released as part of 1.4
22:55:41adi|workor you could wait for 2.0
22:56:04bitjockeyi'll go for daily builds!
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23:34:16 Quit edx` ()
23:43:28bitjockeyI've installed the daily build and it has many nice new features,but there is no more "progress bar" (i think this have been deleted), and I can't realize how to enqueue a song.
23:49:23 Join arbrab [0] (
23:50:01arbrabhello, is this the correct channel for the rockbox project on sourceforge?
23:52:55bitjockeyit' s the first time I came here, but I think you're right
23:54:37 Quit matsl ("Client Exiting")
23:54:38arbrabokay.. anyone compiled the sources here? I cant seem to find as.exe
23:55:48arbrabas in I have cygwin installed and another tool chain(cross compiler) installed as well.. so it keeps picking as from one of those.. and I cant see any as.exe here.. so how does gcc assemble?

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