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#rockbox log for 2003-05-02

00:01:05Stevie[FP]something somebody did between 2.0 and 4/28 broke the Recording F2/F3 menus on my FM
00:05:29 Join BoD[] [0] (
00:05:46BoD[]Hello world
00:06:22 Join tracktheripper [0] (
00:07:45tracktheripperWhy isnt "Flange" possible on the Archos?
00:08:49BoD[]what is it
00:09:27tracktheripperits a sort of cool "sweeping" effect that sounds great on techno-dance music
00:09:58tracktheripperSoundforge has a flange effect
00:10:08BoD[]that is probably because they can't directly program the sound processor chip
00:11:16*Stevie[FP] is away [g0n3] [KS-MsgLog Off]
00:11:40tracktheripperbut the effect is soooooooo cool on dance music :-)
00:11:58tracktheripperif they can do stereo narrow and stereo wide why not flange? :-(
00:14:17BoD[]héhé that's a good question
00:14:28BoD[]i dont know how they to the stereo stuff
00:17:14tracktheripperBoD Submit a feature request "Run Soundforge on the fly"
00:17:38BoD[]submit it yourself ;)
00:18:02tracktheripperno because it will get rejectied if I send it
00:18:35 Quit tracktheripper ("Leaving")
00:23:33 Join Zagor [0] (
00:23:56BoD[]hi !
00:24:01Zagorhey guys
00:24:22 Quit Zagor (Client Quit)
00:24:30 Join Zagor [0] (
00:25:04BoD[]hey how come you have the same user@host than tracktheripper
00:25:11 Quit Zagor (Client Quit)
00:25:24 Join Nibbler [0] (
00:26:02 Join tracktheripper [0] (
00:27:56BoD[]hey how come you have the same user@host than Zagor :)
00:28:37BoD[]how do you connect to this forum ?
00:28:59tracktherippernever mind :D
00:29:10BoD[]no tell me
00:30:12tracktheripperits your monitor playing up :-)
00:30:27BoD[]do you use some web interface
00:31:33tracktheripperdon't worry
00:31:44tracktheripperits prob crossed wires in the server
00:33:08BoD[]yeah right ;)
00:33:41tracktheripperi wouldnt' dream of nicking his name ;-)
00:35:43 Quit tracktheripper ("Leaving")
00:36:08 Join blaze1 [0] (
00:36:20 Quit blaze1 (Client Quit)
00:36:32 Join BoD1 [0] (
00:36:48BoD[]what are you doing
00:37:26 Quit BoD1 (Client Quit)
00:37:39 Join abc [0] (
00:37:59 Quit abc (Client Quit)
00:56:21 Join Stevie-O [0] (
00:56:21 Quit Nibbler (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:56:32Stevie-Osup y'all
00:56:50Stevie-Osup BoD
00:58:47BoD[]nothing :)
00:58:59BoD[]i killed my right ear
00:59:06BoD[]bye going to a disco
00:59:11Stevie-Ogoing for the Van Gogh look?
00:59:38BoD[]no :)
00:59:57BoD[]but now i'm semi deaf
01:05:54 Nick seb-sleep is now known as _seb_ (
01:06:52 Join josh966__ [0] (
01:23:23 Nick BoD[] is now known as Gepeto[][] (
01:23:24 Quit Stevie-O (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:23:41 Nick Gepeto[][] is now known as BoD[] (
01:33:09 Join sigsegv_ [0] (
01:33:43sigsegv_Can tetris be playedon the Jukebox Studio 20?
01:34:10BoD[]does it have a screen ?
01:35:22BoD[]then yes
01:35:42sigsegv_which firmware do I need?
01:36:18BoD[]the bleeding edge one :)
01:37:05sigsegv_a ha. and doom?
01:38:16BoD[]doom was an april fool joke
01:38:33BoD[]it probably can't be done on this device
01:38:52sigsegv_you're just lasy that's all
01:39:10BoD[]not me, i'm not a developper
01:40:04BoD[]but please do it if you think it's doable
01:41:13sigsegv_if you're not a developer then why the fuck are you giving advice?
01:42:46BoD[]because not only developers can give an advice ?
01:46:12sigsegv_but only developers can give "good advice" so piss off!
01:46:13 Quit sigsegv_ ("ChatZilla 0.8.23 [Mozilla rv:1.3/20030312]")
01:46:28BoD[]yeah right :))
01:48:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:04:02 Quit josh966__ ("ChatZilla 0.8.25 [Mozilla rv:1.4b/20030408]")
02:17:25 Nick BoD[] is now known as BoD[DivX] (
02:38:29 Join Nibbler [0] (
02:51:12 Part Cody
03:01:24 Join Stevie-O [0] (
03:01:32Stevie-Owho missed me?
03:02:02 Join parabolaa [0] (parabolaa@
03:02:30Stevie-Othe Prez is interrupting CSI
03:11:54 Join jzoss [0] (
03:12:04Stevie-Osup jz
03:12:24jzossyoyo, hello! =)
03:15:48jzossStevie...was that you asking earlier on IRC about "why don't we use UP arrow in quickmenu F2/F3 screens?"
03:16:25Stevie-Osomeone else asked that particular question
03:16:31Stevie-OMy thoughts were
03:16:42jzossahhh. nevermind, then. =) I was just skimming the logs from today
03:16:49Stevie-Owhat if we could flip between the two screens by pressing UP
03:16:58Stevie-Othen we could use F3 for something else
03:17:09jzossLinux informed me a month ago when I tried to use UP for something on the quickmenu that it doesn't work.
03:17:19Stevie-Oit doesn't work?
03:17:22Stevie-OI can't imagine why
03:17:24jzossLike UP shares an interrupt with something. I don't remember the details.
03:17:26Stevie-Oit works everywhere else
03:17:40Stevie-OI read somewhere about a certain *combination* of keys
03:17:41Stevie-Othat conflicts
03:17:46jzoss{shrug}. If they had a search function for the IRC archives, I'd have the answer quick! =)
03:17:49Stevie-OI think ON+UP = F3
03:18:10jzossmaybe that was it.
03:18:21Stevie-Othat sounds about right
03:18:23Stevie-Olemme check sf
03:18:25jzossI just know I tried to use UP in one of the recording quickmenus (F2)
03:18:30 Join LinusN [200] (
03:18:31jzossAnd he said "no way!"
03:18:35jzossSpeaking of the man...
03:18:50LinusNthe ON button uses the same A/D as the F-buttons
03:18:52jzossHiya, Linus! =)
03:19:01LinusNsorry, UP button
03:19:03jzossI remembered you saying something like that.
03:19:26Stevie-Ohey LinusN
03:19:41Stevie-Owould you care to explain this A/D stuff to a new guy?
03:19:54Stevie-OI made the mistake of disregarding 'Keep out!'
03:20:03LinusNfour buttons are connected to each A/D channel
03:21:01Stevie-Ofour buttons...
03:21:19LinusNeach button connects to VCC via a resistor, different values for each button
03:21:50LinusNby reading the voltage we can determine which button is pushed
03:23:02LinusNhowever, if two buttons are pushed, the voltage will be different
03:24:08LinusNbasically, the resistance is lowered for every extra button
03:26:30 Join OneCluedCoder [0] (
03:26:55OneCluedCoderI haven't pinged out yet?
03:27:29*OneCluedCoder points to Stevie-O
03:27:37OneCluedCoderan inopportune dialup disconnection
03:27:57OneCluedCoderok, so i have 3 fkeys + 4 directional + 1 play + 2 on/off = 10 buttons
03:28:03OneCluedCoderif there's 4 keys per channel
03:28:08OneCluedCoderthat means 3 channels
03:28:11LinusNeach button connects to VCC via a resistor, different values for each button
03:28:15LinusNby reading the voltage we can determine which button is pushed
03:28:17LinusNhowever, if two buttons are pushed, the voltage will be different
03:28:21LinusNbasically, the resistance is lowered for every extra button
03:28:37OneCluedCoderthat's an interesting way of doing it...
03:28:38LinusNon/off are parallel port pins
03:28:50LinusNon the Recorder
03:28:58LinusNon the fm, they are A/D
03:29:15Mode"#rockbox +o LinusN " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
03:29:18OneCluedCoderwhich would be great
03:29:25OneCluedCoderbecause then there's no conflict with On/off
03:29:28LinusNshould i kick Stevie-O?
03:29:37OneCluedCoderit won't get rid of him...
03:29:47OneCluedCoderso I'll still be stuck as OneCluedCoder until he pings out
03:29:50Kick(#rockbox Stevie-O :LinusN) by LinusN!
03:29:59jzosslet's all kick Stevie-O!!
03:30:10OneCluedCoderthis ircd doesn't support WATCH
03:30:14OneCluedCodernow I won't even know when he dies =/
03:30:25 Nick OneCluedCoder is now known as Stevie-O (
03:30:57Stevie-Oso, parallel port pins are nice, cuz they won't conflict with A/D
03:31:23Stevie-Oany of the numbers documented somewhere?
03:32:29Stevie-Obtw... as of daily build for 4/28, I can't use the F2/F3 menus in Record mode
03:32:43Stevie-Oi booted back to 2.0 and they worked there
03:33:23Stevie-Ook, CSI is finally on
03:33:38LinusNthe f2/f3 in recording is intentional
03:33:47Stevie-Owhy is that?
03:33:57LinusNfiddling with those while recording will screw up the recording
03:34:15Stevie-Obut when it's not recording?
03:34:31LinusNthen it should work
03:35:00Stevie-Omissed a spot? ;)
03:35:23Stevie-OI added a completely useless feature
03:35:45Stevie-Oit draws the display upside-down
03:36:27jzosswoohoo! =)
03:36:33jzossNext step: rotate 90.
03:36:40jzossThen arbitrary rotations + zooms.
03:36:47jzossThen full OpenGL, baby! ;)
03:37:09Stevie-Oactually, not really
03:37:10Stevie-Othere's a command you can send to the LCD that inverts the line drawing order
03:37:12LinusNStevie-O: fix committed
03:37:19Stevie-Oty :)
03:37:25Stevie-OI never noticed it cuz I don't really record anything
03:37:29MTnoob question - wc afile - the 3 numbers returned are line count, word count, character count right?
03:37:35Stevie-OMT: yep
03:37:47MTdamn \r\n
03:38:00Stevie-Operl -e 's/\r\n/\n/g'
03:48:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:01:03 Quit Nibbler (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
04:01:16Stevie-Oexactly what's the holdup on the FM thing?
04:02:05LinusNStevie-O: ?
04:02:11Stevie-OFM decoding
04:02:31Stevie-Oare you the only developer who has one?
04:02:40LinusNseems so
04:02:53Stevie-Othat'll hold things up a bit
04:03:06LinusNi am listening to FM with Rockbox as we speak :-)
04:03:10Stevie-Ohehe, nice
04:03:22Stevie-Ohey, some guys are talking about ditching the F3 menu and using it for something else
04:03:32LinusNwe all do
04:03:44Stevie-OI put together some code
04:04:02Stevie-Othat would make it easier to combine the two
04:04:07Stevie-Oand switch between them using the UP key
04:04:26LinusNi think we should concentrate our efforts on the UI suf
04:04:34LinusNsuggestion from Daniel
04:04:46LinusNmailing list
04:04:54Stevie-ODaniel's suggestion is that we concentrate on the UI?
04:05:09 Quit Jet8810 ("Client exiting")
04:05:13LinusNno, he made up a suggestion on new button assignments
04:05:29Stevie-OI don't know who Daniel is
04:05:38LinusNyou don't subscribe to the mailing list?
04:05:44Stevie-OI subscribed a few days ago
04:05:54Stevie-Ooh, ok
04:10:02Stevie-Oso is the plan to ditch the F2+F3 menus entirely?
04:12:03LinusNthere is no plan, only discussion
04:12:29elinenbehi LinusN
04:12:30LinusNthe plan is to improve the UI
04:12:36LinusNhi elinenbe
04:12:37elinenbedamn you up late!
04:13:00elinenbeLinusN: commit jzoss ID3 recording patch −− good stuff!
04:13:19jzosslol. thx, elinenbe. heh.
04:13:32jzossit's not ready for recent rockbox, though.
04:14:03Stevie-Oor is it that rockbox is not ready for it? ;)
04:15:06parabolaacould anyone recommend me if to buy archos player or recorder ? because i plan mostly to connect it stereo and only player has line out?
04:15:26LinusNparabolaa: recorder, definitely
04:15:37jzossI second that.
04:15:45parabolaabut line out supposed to give better sound ? because not amplified ?
04:15:50jzossRecorder headphone out works just fine for stereo connection for me. =)
04:16:01elinenbeLinusN: what would you reccommend now −− recorder or FM?
04:16:13parabolaaboth fm and recorder dont have line out
04:16:19elinenbeLinusN: because fo the batteries?
04:16:30LinusNbecause of the S/PDIF and remote control issues
04:16:34 Nick BoD[DivX] is now known as BoD[] (
04:16:36Stevie-OS/PDIF ?
04:16:42LinusNdigital I/O
04:16:58parabolaain archos site theres this weird 'recorder deluxe' that has more stuff and specs says it has line out.... but it costs the same ?? weird..
04:17:08elinenbeah −− the recorder does not have 4 connections on the headphones input −− right?
04:17:15LinusNelinenbe: true
04:17:21LinusNthe fm
04:17:39BoD[]it's 4:17
04:18:03BoD[]i think it means
04:18:13BoD[]that it's bed time
04:18:25Stevie-Oit's programming time?
04:18:26BoD[]at least for me :)
04:18:26LinusNor breakfast time, for early risers
04:18:40parabolaais it true that even with rockbox the small background noise won't exist if i use archos player line out ??
04:18:44BoD[]i woke up at 18:00 today
04:19:00BoD[]anyway... see you all ! bye
04:19:17 Quit BoD[] ("i hate birds")
04:19:29LinusNparabolaa: background noise is the same with rockbox on Player models
04:19:48parabolaaeven when i use line out to stereo ?
04:19:57parabolaabecause recorder doesnt have line out at all..
04:20:02LinusNi'm not sure which noise you are talking about
04:20:05parabolaa(except digital)
04:20:27parabolaai'm not sure either because i didnt buy it yet.. but forums talk about it..
04:20:54jzossrecorder is so much better UI (and you can record!) =)
04:21:08Stevie-Othe display is so sweet
04:21:15LinusNand the sound is much better
04:21:17Stevie-OI need to look into a hardware mod that increases the screensize
04:21:38parabolaasound is much better in record ? how come ? only player has line out
04:22:22LinusNthe Recorder has a better MP3 decoder qith much better sound controls
04:24:13parabolaaany idea about this 'recorder deluxe' model on ? they have a mistake there because same price like recorder ?
04:24:54LinusNurl? hmm?
04:25:46LinusNthe url to this "deluxe recorder"
04:26:36parabolaai clicked on / products / mp3 music / and at bottom one of the models is 'recorder deluxe'
04:26:57LinusNseems like the standard recorder plus a travel kit
04:26:59parabolaawhich is weird because same price like normal recorder.. probably mistake..?
04:27:19parabolaayes but in specs of 'recorder deluxe' it says it has analog line out
04:27:43parabolaa'features and specs'
04:28:14parabolaawell says stereo line out in addition to ear
04:28:29parabolaaand normal recorder doesnt have this
04:28:30Stevie-Othe 'features and specs' gave me a 404
04:28:45parabolaahmm works here now
04:29:14parabolaaAudio Specifications: Stereo Digital / Analog Line In, Stereo Line Out, and Earphone Jack.
04:29:14parabolaaSignal to noise ratio > 90dB.
04:30:16Stevie-Othat says stereo line out, not analog line out
04:30:31parabolaayes but normal recorder doesnt say this
04:30:41LinusNStereo Digital Line In/Out, Stereo Analog Line in, Stereo Analog Line Out/Earphone Jack.
04:30:43parabolaaso assumed they meant analog ?
04:30:47LinusNsays the "normal" recorder
04:31:30jzosssilly webmaster made a typo, probably
04:31:52LinusNi don't think so
04:32:11parabolaayes i think in the normal recorder when they say 'Stereo Analog Line Out/Earphone Jack' they that they are both the same one output
04:32:15LinusNlooks like they cut the Digital Out feature, just like on the FM
04:32:58jzossbleh. I'd gladly take digital out over line out.
04:33:22*Stevie-O downloads specsheets at a killer 3kb/s
04:35:01parabolaahehe in recorde deluxe its "Stereo Line Out, and Earphone Jack" -so my wild interpretation is based on the comma "," in deluxe model.. :)
04:37:05LinusNparabolaa: but they left out the "Out" in the digital interface
04:37:25LinusNi think they sacrificed the Digital out for a Line Out
04:37:35parabolaayes but my stereo dont have digital anyway:(
04:38:05parabolaahow is convertor from digital to analog for the recorder ? will give better sound than using ear ?
04:38:39 Join Freek [0] (
04:38:46parabolaai read u can buy in radio shack etc convertor from digital to analog
04:39:34FreekI have a question: is it possible to compile rockbox on mac?
04:39:37parabolaaso with recorder use digital out to convertor and from that to stereo.. i wonder if thats better than ear..
04:40:47LinusNFreek: yes, if you can build a cross GCC on it
04:41:00LinusNparabolaa: should be
04:41:45Freekhmm pardon my ignorance, but what exactly did you just say? i'm not much (not at all, actually) of a programmer, but i know some code, and want to change a few small things
04:42:09jzossyou have to compile your changes, right?
04:42:10Stevie-Oit seems complicated
04:42:15Stevie-Obut it's actually not so bad
04:42:21jzossBut rockbox does not run the same processor as your mac
04:42:34jzossSo you build a compiler on the mac that compiles things to run on your archos
04:42:58Freekdoes anyone know of a prebuilt mac compiler?
04:43:33jzossNot for SH1 (what archos uses), I don't know. sorry
04:43:43parabolaahow come you guys claim rockbox cannot support .wav format etc because the hardware only decodes mp3, but on the other hand archos's site says that they plan to support .wma with new firmware ?
04:44:15LinusNparabolaa: we didn't say that it isn't possible
04:44:21Stevie-Obecause THEY know how their chip works
04:44:27LinusNjust that it isn't possible *for us*
04:45:03parabolaaso u think it is theoretically possible to also play ogg vorbis on archos ?
04:45:27parabolaai.e. archos hardware is powerful enough ?
04:45:58LinusNto little memory on the dsp
04:47:02parabolaahmm i dont know much about ogg.. is it that much more demanding than mp3 ? memory-wise ?
04:47:19LinusNhuge lookup tables
04:50:44parabolaathe memory on dsp is not same thing as the 2meg buffer right?
04:51:17parabolaahow much memory on dsp ?
04:51:36parabolaawhere can i see archos hardware info ?
04:52:08parabolaahmm u know how does it compare to ipod hardware ? ipod could support ogg ?
04:52:45LinusNipod has a dual ARM CPU
04:52:55LinusNarchos has a dedicated mp3 chip
04:53:07LinusNlike comparing apples and oranges
04:53:11Freekwow, so thats why its $300 more
04:53:48jzossnah. It's $300 more becuse it's apple. =)
04:53:52parabolaaso u estimate that ipod could support .ogg ?
04:54:11Freekyeah, well, thats apple for ya
04:55:18LinusNgotta sleep now
04:55:21Stevie-Oholy fsck
04:55:22LinusNcu guys
04:55:27Freekk bye
04:55:29jzossenjoy your hour or so of sleep. =)
04:55:35 Part LinusN
04:55:42Stevie-Othe display on the Recorder/FM
04:55:56Stevie-Odraws between 5 and 6 times the power when we're writing to it
04:56:05Stevie-Oas it does when it's just being displayed
04:56:31Stevie-O60-100uA while just displaying
04:56:49Stevie-O300-600uA while it's being accessed
04:57:19parabolaahow do u measure this?
04:57:22Stevie-Owell that's with the Voltage Generator off
04:57:24Stevie-OI don't
04:57:32Stevie-Othe Rockbox website has the datasheet
04:57:34Freekwhered you find it then
04:57:35Stevie-Owhich has all these measurements
04:57:54Stevie-Onow, the question is −− are we using the Voltage Generator?
04:57:58Stevie-OLinus would know that
04:58:00Stevie-Otoo bad he left =/
04:59:43Freeksorry to stray back to my question, but just to be sure: does anyone know of a prebuilt Mac OS Classic compiler?
04:59:53Stevie-Onot to my knowledge
04:59:58Stevie-Ois there a gcc for MacOS?
05:00:05Stevie-Oa cygwin equivalent
05:00:07Freekjust checked, no
05:00:48jzossIf you're really desperate to compile some rockbox, you can install linux on your mac, and run gcc from there. =)
05:01:08Freekhehe too lazy
05:01:24Freeki'll go bang my head on a wall now
05:01:36Stevie-Ofind a bootdisk
05:01:42Stevie-Oor build a linux bawx
05:02:08Freekheh once again, too lazy
05:02:49parabolaai'm sure there is gcc for mac.. no?
05:03:02Freeki just checked, man
05:03:04Freekno dice
05:04:12parabolaapowerpc-apple-darwin6.5 Mac OS X 10.2.5
05:04:37Freekyes, but for mac os 9?
05:05:12Freekah what the hell, i'll dl em all and try em
05:05:26parabolaawell i know this about mac myself.. there are 7 apple releases there..
05:05:46parabolaaknow nothing i mean
05:06:25Freekno one makes stuff for mac os 7-9 anymore
05:06:39parabolaawhy do u use it then?:)
05:06:56Freekbecause my computer is a pile of shiat
05:07:09Freeki cant run osx
05:07:10parabolaause linux ?
05:07:28Freeki could, possibly, but my hard drive is only 3GB
05:07:36Freekwhich is why i say its crap
05:08:03Freekand i dare you to tell me it isn't ;)
05:08:09Stevie-Owow, that is crap!
05:08:38Stevie-Ook, I just downloaded the source to look for something
05:08:42FreekIt's a hand-me-down, what should i expect?
05:08:43Stevie-Ooh yeah
05:08:47Stevie-Othe lcd driver
05:12:23Stevie-Owhen we write to the display
05:12:33Stevie-Owe do a lot of writing :-o
05:22:00 Part jzoss ("Client exiting")
05:38:16 Join Nibbler [0] (
05:38:28Freeksup nibbler
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05:48:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:54:18 Nick elinenbe is now known as elinenbe|rules (
05:56:39 Join Stevie-O [0] (
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07:48:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:55:41 Join Bagder [241] (
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08:03:25 Nick dw|gone is now known as dwihno (
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09:06:01webmindBagder, do u know who maintains the faq's?
09:06:28Bagderadi does most of it
09:08:24dwihnoMORNING! :D
09:08:26dwihnoHEJ HEJ!
09:08:34Bagderhi dw
09:09:06dwihnoI am glad todaj :-) <−− see
09:15:46Bagder181 differrent persons mailed the rockbox list in April
09:16:33webmindhi dwihno
09:16:44webminddwihno, good.. why?
09:23:01dwihnowebmind: it's FRIDAY! :D
09:23:17dwihnois it possible to get some kind of platform indicator in a gnu makefile without calling external progs?
09:23:38webminddwihno, but weekends are usually boring.
09:23:39dwihnoreading environment vars might be an idea (such as COMSPEC, since it's win only afaik)
09:23:40Bagderdwihno: I don't think so
09:23:44dwihnowebmind: nah, they are not! :)
09:23:52dwihnoBagder: you got a digital camera, no?
09:23:57BagderI do
09:23:57webminddwihno, if u have uplink or something to do..
09:25:52dwihnoBagder: tell me more :-)
09:26:13dwihnowebmind: I got no uplink, but a ton of ideas and goofy friends :)
09:26:27Bagderdwihno: ah, its an old canon power shot s20, 256mb CF
09:26:38Bagder3 mpixels
09:27:05webminddwihno, that is nice then yes
09:27:46dwihnoBagder: the delays when taking a photo, is that because of the hardware writing to the flash card?
09:28:01dwihnowebmind: yea :) weekends are neato
09:28:02BagderI doubt that
09:28:17dwihnowhat is the delay then?
09:28:28dwihnoI'm considering a camera, and I want to do proper research before I do.
09:28:32webminddwihno, if u have the ideas yes
09:28:42dwihnoand what is the megapixels a measurement of?
09:29:04BagderX * Y =
09:29:21Bagdermy camera takes 2048 x 1536
09:29:37Bagder3145728 pixels
09:29:56webminddwihno, i'd say look amount of megapixels, res, and interface, and test for quality
09:30:02*webmind ordered a canon
09:30:12webmindshould be nice
09:30:14BagderI'm very happy with mine
09:30:38dwihnoBagder: ah, so it's just the resolution ... :) I thought that, but I thought that was a way silly measurement
09:31:02dwihnoDamn you, evil camera manufacturers :)
09:31:14BagderI think it is made to make a technical measurement sound easier
09:31:39dwihno(but they are still evil) :)
09:31:40webmindBagder, ordered de a70 about same res
09:32:14dwihnoAre there any power consumption measurements regarding different types of flash memory somewhere on the web? is a nice digicam site
09:33:30Bagderthey have reviews of LOADS of digital cameras
09:34:49dwihnowhoa :D
09:35:05dwihnobut how about flash memory types?
09:35:21BagderCF rocks ;-)
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09:38:17dwihnoBut is power insans
09:39:09Bagderwell, afaik its the only sensible kind, what alternative are you considering?
09:39:09webmindCF is nice...
09:39:16webmindSD ? :)
09:41:23dwihnoIs SD bad?
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09:42:20webmindSD is i think better then CF but CF is IDE/pcmcia compatible ?
09:42:43BagderI thought most cameras were CF today
09:42:59dwihnoMy dad showed me his camera yesterday, and I was quite impressed.
09:43:06dwihnoSmall, yet powerful.
09:43:24dwihnoIt was excellent at shooting in my (dark) apartment
09:43:46dwihno(and yes, I will get new light bulbs today) :)
09:43:55webmindBagder, a lot aren't
09:44:12BagderI haven't really kept up with those details ;-)
09:45:34dwihnoShame on you! :)
09:45:41HesCF is nice, loads of companies making them, and the IDE/PCMCIA compatibility is cool. The adapters are cheap.
09:46:00*Hes is very happy with his Canon S30
09:48:39dwihnoOne thing I hate about those cameras is the software required for camera connectivity
09:48:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:49:24Bagderthat's the name of the linux program I use for it
09:49:51BagderI too would rather have the camera appear as a disk
09:50:09HesHeh, yeah, I wrote a perl script around gphoto2 to automatically retrieve stuff
09:50:36Hesi wish it had an ATA-USB bridge chip like the archos 8-)
09:51:00dwihnoThe Pentax model he showed me had such a thingy
09:51:10Bagderthat's nice
09:51:30dwihnoplug in, run script, eject
09:51:34Bagderbut did they achieve that with their own magic special driver?
09:51:36Hessometimes I take the CF and put it in the CF USB or PCMCIA adapters I have
09:51:53dwihnoBagder: I didn't find out. I'm going to talk to him later on.
09:51:58Hesa little harder than plugging in the USB cable, but not too much
09:52:01dwihnoMagic Special Driver (tm) :)
09:52:19Bagderbecause if it doesn't work with Linux....
09:52:30Hesgphoto2 talks to a good bunch of cameras
09:52:44Heswith it I can do the plug in, run (my perl) script, unplug trick.
09:52:58Hesalthough the camera does not look like a disk.
09:53:08Bagderyeah, I can do that with s10sh too
09:54:10HesSome guys have tried to hack it a little:
09:54:37dwihnoBagder: true, true. I'm also allergic to "custom special drivers" :-/
09:54:45dwihno(even I actually mostly use wintendo)
09:54:58HesStill a bit far from
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10:11:44Mojo1Anyone know of new code that let's you use the FM function?
10:13:03dwihnoLinus is working on it, I think. He had some register reading working already.
10:13:13Mojo1anyone have the FM recorder/player?
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10:16:36mojo1I love Rockbox!!!
10:16:43webmindgood :)
10:17:30webminddwihno, that's the nice thing with CF..
10:17:40webmindno crappy software needed
10:18:52mojo1Anyone have the FM recorder?
10:19:33dwihnowebmind: well, there are card readers for virtually any type of card..
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10:22:05mojo1Anyone know if ROLO is the best way to use the FM function?
10:22:38webminddwihno, uhm.. yes but with CF u can use CF->IDE, and then u could use your archos :)
10:23:05*webmind pokes adi|work
10:24:32dwihnowebmind: true, that would be neato :)
10:25:06HesYeah, CF adapter for the player/recorder
10:25:21webmindgoing to order one....
10:25:23Hesthen some rockbox code to move the images from the CF to the internal disk
10:25:24webminddunno when though
10:25:40webmindHes, uhm.. then u need to connect to disks...
10:25:44Hesnice for the traveller.
10:25:46webmindhmm would that be possible ?
10:25:52HesI don't see why not.
10:26:22HesSome archos boxes have the disk as master, some as slave, and rockbox detects if the disk is master/slave
10:26:31Hesit wouldn't be impossible to detect two disks.
10:26:55webmindcan the controller handle it ?
10:27:12webmindi mean.. this would be really cool
10:27:18dwihnohow would you fit it?
10:27:32HesThe mechanical part would be the hardest thing 8-)
10:27:44webminddwihno, i dont have a casing.. just build a hardware mod to connect to disks to 1 connector ?
10:28:05webmindshouldn't be much a of problem
10:28:17webmindmaybe use a 44pin ide cable ?
10:28:19HesWould be pretty nice, could offload the photos to the disk, no need to buy lots/huge CF cards, or carry a laptop around on a long journey
10:28:41dwihnoHes: get more flash! :D
10:28:42webmindor buy one fo those expensive devices that do exactly this
10:28:52webminddwihno, flash goes up to only 1gb
10:28:56webmindharddisks 60gb
10:29:14HesI just got a 256M CF card last week at ~70euro, not too bad
10:29:28Hesa huge addition to the 128M card I had
10:29:45*webmind got 3 128mb CF's of my work.. 2 have to be activly used though
10:29:49Hesyou can also get IBM CF hard disks, they're pretty cool, but expensive as well
10:29:58Heshard disks in the form of a CF card
10:30:07webmindbut i'd love it i could make images or copy the date from my CF to my rockbox
10:30:18webmindHes, still max 2gb
10:30:33dwihnowebmind: 1 gb should be enough for everyone! :)
10:30:33webmindand CF has the down side of a max of a few thousand writes
10:30:38Hes1G or 2G would be enough for the travelling I do 8-)
10:30:45webminddwihno, tooo expensive
10:33:43mojo1FM recorder anyone?
10:36:22mojo1can anyone see my questions??
10:37:54HesWe can see you... but apparently no-one having an FM is around
10:38:12mojo1ok thanks...
10:38:25Hesyou can only get a positive answer to that question on an IRC channel 8-)
10:38:37Hesif there's no-one here => no answer.
10:39:06dwihnoZagor, where are you!? :)
10:39:59mojo1anyone have any idea when 2.1 is coming?
10:42:27 Quit mojo1 ("Leaving")
10:42:56#>>"explain 2.1" by dwihno (
10:43:29HesI guess the answer was 'no'.
10:43:59dwihnoJust when 2.0 is out and all...
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10:56:52webmindwhere's the faq dude...
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11:03:40webmindbu uhm.. would multiple hd support be hard software wise ?
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11:05:13dwihnoBagder: The Windows 2000 "storage drivers" do not include the ISD200 for instance. Do you think they only support fully mass-storage compliant controllers?
11:05:52Bagderpossible, yes
11:06:36dwihnoI'm looking at the specs of the camera I saw yesterday, and it seems it only requires drivers for Win98.
11:07:13dwihnoThe best part: they have a retail shop in my part of the city! :D I'll go there with my freebsd-laptop and test it :-)
11:07:27dwihnoBut 9200 for the entire package is a bit hefty :/
11:11:42webminddwihno, what camera ?
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11:14:52webmindis it correct that i cant submit feature requests without logging in ?
11:15:44webmindi hate having 1001 accounts for all those sites
11:16:08Bagderwe get too many bogus requests otherwise
11:16:16webmindwel yes..
11:16:29webmindbut i cant remember that many passwords u know..
11:17:21dwihnowebmind: pentax optio 550
11:17:36dwihnowebmind: but that includes a 256 meg SD + an extra battery
11:18:08webminddwihno, how many MP ?
11:20:32dwihnoIt seems like it is mass storage compliant as well.
11:20:58webmindi got a canon a70 + extra 2000mah bat's for E440
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11:59:04Zagorken0 is back on good old form
11:59:27dwihnoZagoren :)
12:06:36Zagordwihno: have you tried the ata patch I posted on the list?
12:08:58dwihnoZagor: Ah, thanks for reminding me... I KNEW there was something I wanted to ask you :)
12:09:10dwihnoZagor: Actually, I have not. Could you please cook me a ajz?
12:09:47dwihnoI think I've found an excellent digital camera which boasts mass storage compliance!
12:10:48webmindcan someone submit a feature request for me maybe? sf is giving me hell
12:12:23Schnueffhm there's a vbrfixer for unix now
12:12:35Schnueff, have not checked out yet
12:12:47Bagderany comment on my mail-version of the digest:
12:13:02Schnueffeh sorry for pasting
12:13:08webmindok :)
12:13:23ZagorBagder: it's in the wrong order
12:13:25*Zagor ducks
12:13:31Schnueffi like * for bullets better
12:14:13Bagder* it is now
12:14:18Zagordwihno: I can upload a patched version for you if you like
12:15:14SchnueffBagder: u don't need to list mail links at the bottom ([8])
12:15:27Schnueff(if they are spelled out always at the top)
12:16:00Zagoryeah, maybe the links should be after each item instead of last in the mail
12:16:04Bagderwell, the list below hows the href part while the text includes the stuff within the <a> </a> so they might not both look the same
12:16:22BagderZagor: you mean after each date?
12:16:38Zagormakes it easier to navigate
12:16:55BagderI'll try that and see how it looks
12:17:04SchnueffBagder: yeah sure, depends, if you have a special way to put in mailto: links
12:18:26BagderI add the links the same way in my source doc: LINK("link", text)
12:21:45Bagdertry now
12:22:02BagderI would need a more visible divider I guess
12:22:50ZagorI think this is good
12:23:14ZagorI like the rumour :-)
12:23:34Bagdera bird whispered in my ear
12:24:04Bagderis this separator better or worse?
12:25:27Zagorbetter, i think
12:25:37BagderI think so too
12:25:51 Part TotMacherr
12:31:57Bagderbut with this link-system, my nice hack that re-uses numbers isn't as obvious! :-)
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12:46:25dwihnoZagor: that would be kind of you
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12:54:12Bagdermy "coming up next" hack is quite need
12:54:19Bagderneeds some more work though
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12:57:15dwihnoZagor: got it
12:57:21dwihnoZagor: I'll test it during the weekend.
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13:37:54quelsarukmorning, afternoon, or whatever you like best :)
13:42:30quelsarukanyone awake?
13:43:11*Bagder mumbles and goes back to sleep
13:43:39quelsarukbagder, do you remember dwihno's webpage?
13:43:58Bagderno I don't
13:44:30quelsarukbtw, i have to modify splash function or create a new one for my sub-menu idea.
13:48:28quelsaruki'm leaving, cu later (maybe) :)
13:48:54quelsarukhave a nice weekend, bagder
13:49:05***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:49:07*Stevie[FP] is back from [g0n3] [gone 13hrs 37mins 52secs] [KS]
13:49:26 Quit quelsaruk ("Leaving")
13:53:40Stevie[FP]what is this rockbox_fprintf
13:54:32Bagdersee sprintf.h in the sim dir
13:54:57*Stevie[FP] makes clean
13:55:47Stevie[FP]settings.c:1115: undefined reference to `rockbox_fprintf'
13:55:54Stevie[FP]yet the website says it built OK
13:56:15Stevie[FP]actually, no, it doesn't
13:56:24Stevie[FP]it doesn't list anything for 'FM Sim Win32'
13:57:33Bagderstill, that fprintf thing works the same
13:58:25Bagderdo you link with sprintf.o ?
13:58:36BagderI mean, is that among the objects
14:00:52Stevie[FP]you guys DID break it at some point
14:00:56Stevie[FP]but there's a flaw in the build process
14:01:02Stevie[FP]so that's why you never noticed it
14:01:13*Stevie[FP] sighs
14:02:04Stevie[FP]there's a slight flaw in the way we do our Makefiles
14:02:08Stevie[FP]we cheat a bit
14:02:18Stevie[FP]instead of explicitly listing the .o files to be linked
14:02:20Stevie[FP]we just use *.o
14:02:37Stevie[FP]the Makefiles aren't building sprintf.o
14:02:44Stevie[FP]but if you don't run Make Clean first
14:03:02Stevie[FP]an earlier build will have left one around
14:03:25BagderI see how this happens
14:03:29Stevie[FP]that would be why the website doesn't catch it
14:03:35Stevie[FP]or whoever tests the builds doesn't catch it
14:03:52Bagderthe website doesn't see this because I haven't messed with the build dir like you have ;-)
14:04:05Stevie[FP]i didn't so much 'mess' with the build dir
14:04:14Bagderthat one makes 'make clean' before it builds it
14:07:58Bagderdoesn't that work for you?
14:08:05Stevie[FP]if I just use
14:08:14Stevie[FP]and follow the directions
14:08:16Stevie[FP]then 'make'
14:08:21Stevie[FP]it complains about a lack of rockbox_fprintf
14:09:28Bagderwhat Makefile in the uisim/win32 are you using then?
14:09:33Bagderare you using cygwin?
14:09:34Stevie[FP]I don't know?
14:09:43Stevie[FP]yeah, since that's what all the directions say
14:10:18Bagderthen I think I know
14:10:55Stevie[FP]fiddling around I found out that there's a Makefile.vc6
14:11:07Stevie[FP]i tried nmake, but that had other missing crap
14:11:10Bagdertry this:
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14:11:29Quelsarukok, i'm back again
14:11:32Stevie[FP]wb again
14:11:35Bagderadd the "EXTRAFIRMSRC = sprintf.c" after line 77 in the uisim/win32/Makefile
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14:14:28Stevie[FP]its stuck Always on Top
14:15:26Bagderwell, that's beyond me ;-)
14:15:45Stevie[FP]is there any way to tell it which dir to treat as the root?
14:15:59Bagder"archos" in the dir you start it in
14:16:21Stevie[FP]no, it's using C:\
14:16:54BagderI don't think that is the intention
14:17:04Stevie[FP]well, it's starting there anyway
14:17:39BagderI'm wrong
14:17:59Bagderthere's no code dealing with redirecting path in the win sim
14:22:28Stevie[FP]the win32 opendir is quite convoluted...
14:24:17Stevie[FP]esp since
14:24:37Stevie[FP]you can use '/' to separate pathnames on Win32
14:24:54Stevie[FP]I can definitely confirm this on win2k, but I'm pretty sure it also applies to the other versions
14:25:04ZagorI don't think it works on win9x
14:25:25Stevie[FP]do we have anyone here with win9x?
14:25:42*Stevie[FP] pokes the idle people
14:26:16Stevie[FP]I don't have definite confirmation of this
14:26:30Stevie[FP]but I think this method even worked in some DOS versions
14:26:47Stevie[FP]the only reason you couldn't use it was, the command interpreter took '/' as an argument separator
14:27:19Zagorthat still applies to cmd.exe in winxp
14:27:34Stevie[FP]it applies to win2k too
14:27:37Stevie[FP]but inside of a program
14:33:58Stevie[FP]MAX_PATH on win32 is 260, not 256
14:35:56Quelsarukgoing out again
14:36:03Quelsaruklunch time :)
14:36:29Zagorrockbox/firmare/include/file.h:#define MAX_PATH 260
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14:37:44Stevie[FP]int win32_rename(char *oldpath, char* newpath)
14:37:44Stevie[FP]char buffer1[256];
14:37:44Stevie[FP]char buffer2[256];
14:38:00Zagorslap whoever wrote that :-)
14:38:07Stevie[FP]* Copyright (C) 2002 Daniel Stenberg
14:38:17*Stevie[FP] eyes Bagder
14:38:25Bagderits the same in the x11 version
14:39:50Stevie[FP]you know
14:39:57Stevie[FP]sprintf(buffer1, "%s%s", SIMULATOR_ARCHOS_ROOT, oldpath);
14:40:09Stevie[FP]SIMULATOR_ARCHOS_ROOT is a compile-time constant
14:40:24Stevie[FP]sprintf(buffer1, SIMULATOR_ARCHOS_ROOT "%s", oldpath); <- would work too
14:41:01Bagderbut its simulator code
14:41:06Bagderit doesn't need to be perfect
14:41:36*Stevie[FP] patches and makes...
14:43:19Stevie[FP] is going to expire
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14:52:21TBoydid LinusN say anything more about listening to the radio on his fm
14:52:26Stevie[FP]we need an emulator
14:52:48TBoythan just that he listened to it
14:52:51BagderTBoy: more? he said he could listen to a local station
14:53:08Bagderthat the spec wasn't correct about how to program the pll
14:57:47 Quit TBoy ("Bye guys")
14:58:45Stevie[FP]My brother happened to mention to me that his FM wouldn't boot
14:59:02Stevie[FP]the startup screen's bar got to halfway and it just froze
14:59:15Stevie[FP]turns out that there was a filesystem error
15:02:55Stevie[FP]hey Bagder
15:03:58BagderI'm off for a cup of tea for a while
15:04:11Stevie[FP]how long is a while?
15:04:18Bagder30 mins
15:11:57Stevie[FP]is it a problem if set_option() doesn't call lcd_stop_scroll() if you connect the USB?
15:13:01Zagoror, rather we could change it so the usb screen always calls stop_scroll
15:13:10Stevie[FP]it doesn't seem to do anything
15:13:14Stevie[FP]I picked a big font
15:13:26Stevie[FP]went to a setting with a big enough name to scroll
15:13:45Stevie[FP]plugged in USB, unplugged USB −− looks fine
15:16:02Stevie[FP]Zagor, question 12 on the Batteries/Charging FAQ mentions some info on power consumption
15:16:11Stevie[FP]do you know who took those measurements?
15:16:27Zagorcan't remember. uwe freese perhaps.
15:16:51Stevie[FP]uwe freese?
15:18:28Stevie[FP]and another USB note: I've noticed that a majority of the functions that exit on SYS_USB_CONNECTED, don't perform certain cleanup code that's normally run when that menu exits
15:18:40Stevie[FP]like F2/F3 don't call save_settings()
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15:19:05Zagoryes it was uwe:
15:20:02Zagorright. clearly a bug.
15:20:15Zagorwould you like cvs write access, so you can fix things like that?
15:20:24Stevie[FP]Not yet
15:20:35Stevie[FP]I don't feel familiar enough with this stuff yet
15:20:45Stevie[FP]but thanks for the offer :)
15:21:01Stevie[FP]now that looks good
15:21:21Stevie[FP]ever cancel a setting with a long name?
15:22:11ZagorI never cancel settings :-)
15:23:18Stevie[FP]try it −− go to Settings/General Settings/Playback/Play Selected First
15:23:25Stevie[FP]then toggle it and hit OFF to cancel
15:24:44Zagorlooks ok here
15:25:18Stevie[FP]they fixed it lol
15:25:25Stevie[FP]it didn't always clear the line
15:25:32Stevie[FP]in 2.0 it definitely didn't
15:25:41Stevie[FP]so it'd say like
15:25:43Stevie[FP]Cancellected First
15:25:52Stevie[FP]or something
15:26:02Stevie[FP]I just changed it to use splash()
15:26:58Zagorhmm, how does that look on players?
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15:28:59Stevie[FP]probably like crap :)
15:29:10Stevie[FP]since I doubt splash() even works right on players
15:31:08Stevie[FP]what does a Player do when you load a language file?
15:31:28Zagorbeats me ;)
15:32:06Stevie[FP]ok, so who is uwe freese?
15:33:31Zagorhe's been doing much of the power work
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15:35:57Stevie[FP]are the base addresses of the internal RAM/external RAM/ROM documented anywhere?
15:36:29BagderI think in the TECH
15:36:48Bagdereh, no
15:36:57Bagderbut it *could* be in there ;-)
15:37:06Stevie[FP]no, it doesn't say there
15:37:19Stevie[FP]I program an embedded device that goes into vending machines
15:37:30Stevie[FP]think Mobil Speedpass for candy bars
15:37:34Bagderwell, the details it of course
15:38:08Stevie[FP]#define ORIGADDR 0x09000000
15:38:22Stevie[FP]so the external DRAM starts at 0x09000000?
15:38:37Stevie[FP]does anything start at 0?
15:38:54Stevie[FP]the internal RAM on the AT91M40800 uC starts at 0
15:39:44Zagorour internal ram starts at 0x0f000000
15:40:05Stevie[FP]so every string pointer will be >= 0x09000000
15:40:14Zagorwe have nothing at 0, as far as I can remember
15:40:51*Stevie[FP] grins
15:41:10Stevie[FP]a certain company from Redmond may have some really awful programming practices
15:41:11Zagorshould I be worried? ;)
15:41:26Stevie[FP]but they've given me an idea that I think could be pretty neat
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16:10:25tracktheripperhi Bjorn and co :-)
16:10:54Stevie[FP]I have a patch that saves a whopping 2kb off the final build
16:11:19Bagderhi track
16:11:27tracktheripperhi bagder
16:11:46ZagorStevie[FP]: what does it do?
16:11:59 Quit tracktheripper (Client Quit)
16:14:29Stevie[FP]MS has an interesting feature regarding various things
16:14:36Stevie[FP]like window class names
16:14:41Stevie[FP]resource type names
16:14:44Stevie[FP]resource names
16:15:53Stevie[FP]because you can give those things (and in the case of window classes, you usually do) string names
16:16:43Stevie[FP]but, as you almost certainly know, string manipulation, etc. is several orders of magnitude slower than, say, a comparison of two numbers
16:18:40Stevie[FP]so Windows lets you choose from either platter
16:19:17Stevie[FP]by having a "string" that's actually an small integer (<65535) cast into a char*
16:21:01Zagorright. but does it really help much in rockbox? we don't throw around strings a lot, do we?
16:23:34Stevie[FP]actually we do
16:23:45Stevie[FP]and 99% of the time they're actually strings from language_strings[]
16:24:06Stevie[FP]which means that they're recalculated in every function that sets up a menu or option list
16:26:33Zagorin that case we should change from char* to int and pass the LANG_ constant instead, methinks
16:28:00Stevie[FP]that won't work in cases where we don't have a LANG_ constant
16:28:14Stevie[FP]case in point: the entire Debug menu
16:29:40Stevie[FP]we really need to start using const
16:29:43 Nick dwihno is now known as dw|gone (
16:31:35ZagorI'm not sure I think such a hack is worth it. wel
16:31:45Zagorwe'll discuss it more later, I need to grab some food
16:31:57 Nick Zagor is now known as Zagor|away (
16:32:37Bagder... and press 'r'
16:39:43BagderI wish I understood what it would do though ;-)
16:44:06Stevie[FP]what what would do?
16:44:25Stevie[FP]sending rekwest
16:44:41Bagderits supposed to add stuff in the mozilla sidebar
16:44:52Bagderbut nothing happens when I try it
16:44:52Stevie[FP]it's not even responding, so
16:45:07Bagderit reponds to me
16:45:18Stevie[FP]well then you're lucky :P
16:45:33Stevie[FP]at least responds to me
16:45:57Stevie[FP]so what do you think of this idea?
16:46:10Stevie[FP]My initial attempt saves a whopping 2kb off the final image size
16:46:35BagderI didn't understand how you intend to solve it
16:46:44Stevie[FP]well what I did was
16:46:49Stevie[FP]made a nice little macro
16:47:02Stevie[FP]#define MAKEINTSTR(x) ((unsigned char*)x)
16:47:14Stevie[FP]then I patched set_int(), set_option(), and menu_draw
16:47:38Stevie[FP]#define IS_LANGSTR(s) ( ((int)s) < LANG_LAST_INDEX_IN_ARRAY )
16:47:59Stevie[FP]if (IS_LANGSTR(p)) p = str((int)p);
16:47:59Schnueffi c
16:48:26Stevie[FP]the result is
16:48:31Stevie[FP]instead of building a dynamic array
16:48:46Stevie[FP]and pulling out language_string[x] for each menu item/option string/etc
16:48:58Stevie[FP]we're simply encoding a constant
16:51:37Bagderso you pass a pointer holding an index instead of the actual pointer
16:51:59Bagdercall me stupid, but I don't see the gain
16:52:31Stevie[FP]centralizes calculation of language_string[x]
16:52:55Stevie[FP]to the functions that process those strings
16:54:15Stevie[FP]3 locations that need to look up a language string
16:54:18Stevie[FP]instead of like 50
16:55:04Bagderset_int()'s first arg could be made a lang index instead
16:55:16Bagderset_bool()'s too
17:09:09BagderI'm off for today
17:09:12 Quit Bagder ("")
17:36:40 Join Quelsaruk [20] (
17:44:16Stevie[FP]stupid Player with its character-cell display
17:45:31Quelsaruki mean, hehehe
17:45:40 Join Nibbler [0] (
17:45:59Quelsaruki always forget that spanish 'je' sounds like english 'he' :)
17:49:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:56:06Stevie[FP]what's the external data bus width?
17:59:08Stevie[FP]probably 16 bits
17:59:29Stevie[FP]16 bits
18:07:49 Join bu88a1 [0] (
18:10:21 Quit bu88a1 (Client Quit)
19:05:15 Quit Quelsaruk ("KVIrc 3.0.0-beta1 "Eve's Avatar"")
19:05:15 Quit Nibbler (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:05:36 Join tracktheripper [0] (
19:06:51*Stevie[FP] is away [fooooooooooood] [KS-MsgLog Off]
19:42:22 Join Quelsaruk [20] (
19:42:35QuelsarukSchnueff: are you here?
19:42:50 Join edx [0] (
19:45:38 Quit tracktheripper ("Leaving")
19:49:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:51:17 Quit dw|gone (
19:52:15NJoindw|gone [20] (
19:53:59Quelsarukre-hi dw|gone
20:03:21*Stevie[FP] is back from [fooooooooooood] [gone 56mins 30secs] [KS]
20:10:32 Join Nibbler [0] (
20:14:22Stevie[FP]I pose a question to all of you people, even though none of you are probably here
20:14:31Stevie[FP]What's going on with the 'plugin' thing?
20:15:00Quelsaruki dunno if it's stoped 'till 2.3 or if zagor is working on it
20:15:08Quelsaruki think it's stopped
20:15:16Quelsaruka lot of things to do before :)
20:16:00 Nick Zagor|away is now known as Zagor (
20:16:16Zagorit's not stopped, because it's not started :-)
20:16:29QuelsarukZagor: then.. it's stopped :P
20:16:38 Join bu88a1 [0] (
20:16:42Quelsarukbtw, take a look to this :)
20:17:06 Join TBoy [0] (~xxx@
20:17:19TBoyhey I noticed something the other day
20:17:34TBoythat if I run my FM with archos it gets pretty hot
20:17:38TBoyor warm
20:17:43ZagorQuelsaruk: cute :)
20:17:51TBoybut if I run it with rb it doesn't
20:18:02Quelsaruki'm working on that gfz menu, Zagor :)
20:18:31Quelsarukbut don't expect it to work :)
20:18:47Quelsarukat least without some nice goats
20:19:23TBoyhey has any1 tested the Musicbrainz tagger
20:20:02QuelsarukTBoy: really strange :)
20:20:11QuelsarukZagor: i have a problem with icons
20:20:13TBoyit's a MP3 meta database wich find tags to your MP3s
20:21:05Quelsaruki made an icon, used bmp2rb and got rockbox code for the icon
20:21:36TBoyrequiring that you already know something about it, after that it makes an Id for the mp3 for other users to use the info you upped
20:21:44TBoyjust wanted to let you know
20:21:53Quelsarukas it was a 7x8 bitmap, i added it to bitmap_7x8 on icons.c and icons.h
20:22:02TBoybut I already have all my mp3s in order
20:22:34Quelsarukbut i tried it on sim and got a strange thing. have i done something wrong? or is it something about simulator and icons?
20:22:36 Join Lear [0] (
20:22:54Zagorsims use the same icon code as target
20:24:24LearI've noticed a small bug in the current rockbox (tested bleeding edge from an hour ago): the Xing VBR header is skipped if an ID3V2 tag is present. id3v2len is set one byte too large, it seems.
20:26:15QuelsarukZagor: then, have i done something wrong? i just have to add the icon code to bitmap_7x8 on icons.c and add the symbolic name on icons.h, no?
20:27:06ZagorLear: huh? works just fine for me.
20:28:43Learzagor: might be something with the particular ID3V2 header I guess, but I know it has worked. Stopped about the time Linus introduced the mp3data.c restructuring. But you have VBR files with a ID3V2.3 header?
20:29:01ZagorLear: yes, lots of them
20:29:13Learzagor: and the problems is subtle: the wrong play time (and bitrate) is shown.
20:29:46Stevie[FP]we need an emulator
20:30:03ZagorQuelsaruk: yeah, that should work
20:30:10ZagorStevie[FP]: that would indeed be nice
20:30:28Quelsarukthen.. i need more goats
20:31:13*Stevie[FP] yawns
20:31:27Stevie[FP]12mhz should be fairly easy
20:31:33Stevie[FP]esp with such a simple display
20:31:55Zagorfeel free :-)
20:33:45Stevie[FP]maybe later
20:34:04Stevie[FP]werkin on a completely diff idea atm
20:38:25 Join Mine78 [0] (
20:38:32Mine78Hi guys
20:38:48Mine78I found the way to make mp3pro palyable without skips
20:38:54Mine78just use VBRFix on it
20:39:05Mine78Leght still remains wrong, but shorter
20:39:14Mine78I saw it's a but
20:39:28Mine78ID: 699667
20:41:07Zagorcould you submit a comment on the bug, so others having the problem know what to do?
20:41:33Learzagor: could be wrong about it working before though, because the ID3V2 size in the file looks wrong to me. But e.g. MPTagger gets it right...
20:42:22Mine78Lenght is wrong but the file doesn't skip anymore
20:42:49Mine78Zagor: how can I put a comment on the bug ? In the bug page ?
20:43:25Mine78Zagor: found it ^_^
20:43:30Mine78Posted it
20:45:02Mine78A question: when I use random selection on a folder inside the .rockbox directory a file appear: queue. or something like that. Can I delete it ?
20:45:03Quelsaruki hate gnu website. I have to navigate a lot tofind what i was looking for :(
20:45:32Stevie[FP]I take it that I09:CPUAdrEr at 0000000001
20:45:33Stevie[FP]is a bad thing
20:47:05ZagorMine78: you shouldn't play files in the .rockbox dir. it's a work dir used by rockbox. the queue file contains the play queue.
20:47:25Zagori mean you shouldn't keep mp3 files there. you can, but it can be confusing
20:47:43Mine78Yes sorry I wrong-typed the sentence. I play files inside a SONG dir and inside the .rockbox I found that file
20:47:53Mine78I suppose it's the temporary queue, isn't it ?
20:48:05Mine78If I delete it the songs continue
20:48:28Zagoryes, only the queue is removed
20:48:43Mine78Rockbox is really really cool guys ! Thank you so much for your SUPERB work !
20:49:01 Quit bu88a1 ()
20:49:20Mine78I am waiting for plugins... do you think will be possible to play .mid or other simple music files (es. mod or others) with plugins ?
20:50:46Stevie[FP]i'd say no
20:50:47QuelsarukAFAIK, not possible
20:50:55Stevie[FP]for the same reason we can't play .wav, .wma, .ogg
20:51:01Learzagor: it looks like the header actually is incorrect. An EAC bug then, I guess. :) Anyone know of a program that can fix this automatically? :)
20:51:39ZagorLear: i don't, unfortunately
20:52:23LearMaybe I should let Lame do the tagging instead...
20:53:12ZagorI don't know which is best. I use grip in linux, and all seems fine :-)
20:53:45Mine78Thank you all for your support ! Have a nice day !
20:53:49 Quit Mine78 ("Shokowahhhhh dwahhhnowan!!")
20:54:47Quelsarukbuuuu!! zagor uses grip ;)
20:55:03Zagorwhat else would I use?
20:55:46Quelsarukdoesn't have microsoft an encoder?
20:56:32Zagori wouldn't know :)
20:56:43Quelsaruki use EAC in win, and grip in linux... i use grip because i don't know another program for linux
20:57:04Stevie[FP]why won't this work
20:59:03 Nick seb-sleep is now known as _seb_ (
21:07:00 Quit Quelsaruk (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
21:08:47 Join [keno] [0] (
21:27:02 Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.8.23 [Mozilla rv:1.3/20030312]")
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21:38:38Stevie[FP]anybody here?
21:48:16 Quit TBoy ("Bye guys")
21:49:14***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:50:18Stevie[FP]you've got a Recorder?
21:50:48Stevie[FP]I'd really like to know what Bagder thinks about this
21:50:52Stevie[FP]but he's not around :P
21:53:18Zagoryeah, i've got a recorder
21:53:40Stevie[FP]give that guy a shot
21:53:47Zagorwhat do I test?
21:53:49Stevie[FP]go to the main menu
21:53:56Stevie[FP]then look at the Sound menu
21:54:15Stevie[FP]and maybe give the General/Display settings menu a look
21:54:47Zagorooh, dots... :)
21:55:03Zagoryay, cool
21:55:09Stevie[FP]does that look neat?
21:55:15Zagorit does
21:55:16Stevie[FP]or interesting, at least
21:55:26Stevie[FP]I touched a lot of crap to do that
21:55:33Zagoreven better would be to show it to the right of the label if there's room
21:55:48Stevie[FP]yeah, I was thinking that
21:55:58Stevie[FP]I have a small font (either the 5x7 or 5x8)
21:57:27Stevie[FP]I wonder what Daniel will think
21:57:38Stevie[FP]If this goes well
21:57:59Stevie[FP]I'm thinking of making it so you edit the value in-place
22:12:11Zagoryeah, i think that would be very nice
22:12:40Zagorsorry for being a bit absent, i'm doing my taxes :-)
22:14:33 Join Jet8810 [0] (
22:16:49 Join London_Blade [0] (
22:17:58London_Bladehi there
22:18:25Stevie[FP]either of you two have Recorder or FM?
22:19:02London_Bladei have Recorder 10
22:20:02London_BladeI don't like the redesigned chassis of the FM recorder
22:20:14London_Bladewhats this?
22:20:15Stevie[FP]Go look at the Sound menu
22:20:18Stevie[FP]with that ajz file
22:20:21London_Bladeone sec
22:20:27Stevie[FP]I'm looking for opinions
22:21:12London_Bladeone sec
22:21:17London_Bladelet me copy the file over
22:21:38London_BladeArchos is booting up
22:21:40London_Bladehang on
22:23:06London_BladeIts not a bad effort but I feel it makes the interface cluttered
22:24:04London_Bladecan someone help me now please?
22:24:28London_BladeI know this has nothing to do with Rockbox but wondered if a partitioned hard drive performs better than a non-partitioned one
22:25:12Zagoror, uh you mean a completely non-partitioned disk?
22:25:25Zagoryou need at least one partition
22:25:33London_BladeTake a 40Gb hard drive
22:25:49London_BladeWould it perform better if it was split into 2 x 20Gb partitions?#
22:26:22Zagorno. also, rockbox only mounts one partition.
22:27:09London_Bladeits just that my desktop PC has slowed up somewhat, I was thinking of using Partition Magic to partition the unused space to improve performance
22:27:32Zagortry defragmenting instead
22:28:35London_Bladebut you are telling me that its pointless doing that as it would not improve performance? Im using the NTFS file system
22:28:51London_Bladeive done that and it hasn't helped and ive also ran Disk Cleanup
22:29:04London_Bladei may reformat my computer with the FAT32 system
22:29:17Zagorntfs is generally better than fat32 for desktop computers
22:29:30London_Bladei thought FAT32 is faster
22:30:10London_Bladeand does a 200Gb hard drive perform much better than my 3 year old 40gigger?
22:30:17Zagoryes, way faster
22:30:33Zagornot due to size, but due to being more modern
22:30:39London_Bladeso im better buying a new hard drive :-)
22:30:59London_Bladecheers Zagor, youve been very helpful and kind :-)
22:31:02Stevie[FP]when I first got my FM for my birthday last Friday
22:31:02Stevie[FP]I immediately copied my 1500 mp3s onto it
22:31:02Stevie[FP]I then learned about the annoying 999-files-per-dir limit of the original firmware
22:31:02Stevie[FP]but worse, that most of my files were really badly named
22:31:02***Alert Mode level 1
22:31:02Stevie[FP]so I went through, organizing and putting id3 tags on
22:31:03***Alert Mode level 2
22:31:03Stevie[FP]the ID3V2 tags really badly fragmented things
22:32:05Zagordid you add the tags over usb?
22:32:09London_Bladesomething else, what pisses me most in the IT industry is the stupid, stupid prices charged for memory cards, when CD-RW disks hold much more and are far cheaper
22:32:43Stevie[FP]Zagor: yeah, I added them after I put them on the Archos
22:33:01ZagorLondon_Blade: well memory cards are quite a bit more advanced than cd-rw disks
22:33:06Stevie[FP]and stripped the artist from most of the filenames
22:33:18Stevie[FP]so I could see what song I was about to play :)
22:34:28London_Bladeyea but if thats the case, why don't companies make digital cameras that use the smaller 8cm CD-RW rather than the expensive memory card?
22:34:52Stevie[FP]please wait 5 minutes while we burn the lead-in and lead-out for your picture
22:35:32ZagorLondon_Blade: they do...
22:35:55Zagorsucks battery like heck though
22:36:33London_Bladeso maybe £50 for a 64Mb CF card isn't so bad after all
22:37:10London_Bladeor I could buy 30 650Mb CD-RWs for the same price........
22:38:07London_BladeZagor I have an idea that may work better than your plugin system you have in mind
22:38:24Stevie[FP]no idea could be better than the plugin system
22:38:30Zagornice. what's that?
22:38:55London_Bladerather than downloading the plugins you require, why not have a firmware where bits of it are loaded into RAM as required, rather have the whole load loaded into RAM in one go?
22:39:14Stevie[FP]that sounds a lot like the plugin system
22:39:19Zagoryeah... :-)
22:39:24London_Bladeso you have a large firmware, but bits of it are loaded as required, i.e for games, recording, etc
22:39:37Stevie[FP]perhaps we would be better off referring it to as a 'module' system
22:39:37ZagorLondon_Blade: how is that different from what I've presented?
22:39:56Stevie[FP]Zagor: 'plugins' usually refers to a 3rd-party feature
22:40:14London_BladeI thought your version meant that you download the bits from the site, i.e if you want games, download the games plugin, if you want recording, download the recording plugin
22:40:14Stevie[FP]i.e. something that does not come with the original software
22:40:40London_Bladewhat im saying is have everything on the Archos, but have the various bits loaded into the buffer as required
22:40:42ZagorLondon_Blade: no, all the bits will be in the zip file you download and unpacked to the archos disk
22:41:04***Alert Mode OFF
22:41:07Zagorwhat you describe is exactly what I have planned
22:41:08London_Bladeso you only unpack the bits you need, such as recording or games?
22:41:15Stevie[FP]actually you unpack it all
22:41:19Stevie[FP]the bits you need are loaded on-demand
22:41:32London_Bladethats exactily waht I said! stevie
22:41:35London_Bladeohhh Zagor.....
22:41:40London_Bladeyou can't blame me for trying :-)
22:42:08Stevie[FP]I think that's fairly convincing evidence that the plugin system idea is a really good one
22:42:20London_Bladeyou need to get out a bit more Zagor and flirt with Girls rather than Archos Jukeboxes
22:42:36Zagorlol. i'll tell my gf :)
22:42:39Stevie[FP]flirt with Girls using your Archos Jukeboxes
22:42:50*Stevie[FP] thinks about that typical movie scenario
22:43:01London_Blademind you, im quite married to my beloved Recorded 10.........
22:43:08Stevie[FP]the nervous guy doesn't know what to say, so he has an earpiece plugged into his FM
22:43:17Stevie[FP]listening to prerecorded things to say
22:44:01London_BladeZagor my Archos has a tiny dent in one side where I dropped it, so how about an addition to the firmware that repairs slight cosmetic damage? :-)
22:44:13Stevie[FP]London_Blade: I'll see about getting that into the next release
22:44:32Stevie[FP]that's on the 'todo' list next to 'Making it run without electricity'
22:45:20London_Bladei do admit though, Archos firmware is bad compared to Rockbox
22:45:39London_Bladeon the Archos firmware there is a loud scream present when hearing quiet passages in songs
22:45:50London_Bladethat noise is not there in Rockbox :-)
22:45:54Stevie[FP]that must be the 'background noise' the FAQ refers to
22:46:19London_Bladeit really fucked me off before I discovered Rockbox.......
22:47:13London_BladeZagor how does Rockbox drastically improve sound quality over Archos firmware?
22:49:02Stevie[FP]it's a little thing called 'doing it right'
22:49:03Zagoryou really want to know?
22:49:24Stevie[FP]did you set the 'output excessive background noise' bit to 0?
22:49:30London_Bladeyes please Zagor
22:49:48Zagorthe truth is, we don't know how the heck archos made it sound like that in the first place
22:49:50 Quit Jet8810 ("Client exiting")
22:50:02Zagorwe never worked to get rid of the noise, it simply ha never been there for us
22:50:32London_Bladeyea Zagor and with the Archos firmware the volume control had a very limited range
22:50:49London_BladeRockbox volume actually goes louder and quieter than the Archos firmware
22:51:27London_BladeZagor all Rockbox needs is a way to input individual songs into a playlist then Rockbox will be sorted :-)
22:51:52Zagorhah, yeah then we can strike all the other feature requests :)
22:52:29Stevie[FP]you know
22:52:34Stevie[FP]I thought the Queue feature did that
22:52:37Stevie[FP]but it doesn't seem to work
22:53:05London_BladeZagor what you could mention on your site is that if you want to make a playlist of individual songs, queue up a series of songs, then rename the QUEUE_FILE to myplaylist.m3u
22:54:49London_Bladejust a thought
22:54:50Zagornah, that's a workaround. we'll add the real deal eventually.
22:55:33London_BladeZagor also why not have a mode where you can queue up songs BEFORE playback rather than DURING playback?
22:55:40London_BladeA bit like the Creative Labs Nomad :-)
22:57:07 Quit London_Blade ("Leaving")
23:05:44 Join tracktheripper [0] (
23:05:52tracktherippergot cut off
23:07:09 Quit tracktheripper (Client Quit)
23:08:59 Join Nibbler [0] (
23:10:28Stevie[FP]sup Nibbler
23:10:37Stevie[FP]do you subscribe to the mailing list?
23:13:52*Stevie[FP] monitors the qmail log output in anticipation of responses to his mail
23:22:28 Join Jet8810 [0] (
23:29:59Stevie[FP]wb Jet8810
23:30:13Jet8810thanks STevie
23:32:09Stevie[FP]do you subscribe to the mailing list?
23:48:33Stevie[FP]woo, feedbaq roqs
23:48:33 Quit Nibbler (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:49:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"

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