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#rockbox log for 2003-06-06

00:13:20 Join turbonegro [0] (
00:13:40turbonegroanyone awake ?
00:14:57turbonegrosome months ago I stumbled across a link where some guy described how to change the hdd on a jukebox 6000
00:15:13turbonegronow i can't find it - anyone here knows about it ?
00:15:59turbonegrou da man :)
00:16:08jzossgood luck!
00:16:17hardeepthere's also
00:16:20turbonegroand i'm too lazy to search the number one site
00:16:35turbonegrohave anyone here tried it ?
00:17:01jzossseveral rockboxers, but they're mostly asleep now. =)
00:17:08hardeepbetter question: has anyone here NOT done it? =)
00:17:42turbonegrohow high can you go ? 40gb...60gb ?
00:17:46jzossI have not done it: "20 gigs is enough for *anyone*". ;)
00:17:52hardeepi believe there might even be 80gb hard drives now
00:18:07*turbonegro has about 70 gigs of mp3's so........
00:18:22hardeepi upgraded to 40gb, the process is pretty easy
00:18:45turbonegroand there's no problems afterwards ?
00:19:11turbonegroexcept for the ages it takes to fill it up via usb 1.1
00:22:26hardeepturbonegro: use an adapter and copy all your files to the new hard drive BEFORE you install it on the jukebox
00:22:33hardeepmuch faster
00:23:21turbonegroand the brand of hd doesn't matter ?
00:24:06jzossor, for that matter, buy a USB2.0 card and use that for later-transfers, too! =)
00:25:16turbonegroyeah - already have usb2.0 on the mobo, but the player is 1.1 :)
00:27:59turbonegroalright then - thx a lot for the info...i'll go shopping for a new hdd then ;)
00:28:46MTfyi, in the uk ive seen 60gb 2.5" drives for £130 inc taxes
00:29:22 Quit jzoss ("Trillian (")
00:29:33elinenbeZagor: why did you cancel the fade on next patch? I really liked that one!
00:33:56 Quit _aLF ("bye")
00:34:53 Join kargatron [0] (
00:35:08 Part kargatron
00:38:59hardeepelinenbe: yours is not to ask, only obey
00:46:03 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (jirc@
00:55:42 Join earHurts [0] (
00:55:57elinenbehardeepL ignore that patch comment
00:56:14earHurtsstevie here?
01:01:30earHurtshaha! sims online has been taken over by a vigilante group.
01:07:25 Join BoD[] [0] (
01:08:52BoD[]how are you
01:09:11earHurtsgood, good. you?
01:09:37earHurtsyou a rockbnox coder?
01:10:05earHurtsa user hen. what model archos?
01:10:55BoD[]recorder 20 but a bit broken
01:11:16earHurtshow's it broken?
01:11:24BoD[]solder problem
01:11:38BoD[]it works but if I move it, it reboots
01:11:48BoD[]sometimes reboots when I press buttons
01:12:14earHurtsoh, nasty. out of warranty?
01:12:48BoD[]of course;)
01:12:56earHurtsof course.
01:13:17BoD[]it broke like the day after the warranty was over !!
01:13:25earHurtsoh shit.
01:13:33earHurtsso what will you do?
01:13:42BoD[]i'll buy an ipod :))
01:13:47BoD[]when I have money that is
01:14:13 Join tracktheripper [0] (
01:14:18earHurtsthe ipods are nice.
01:14:26tracktheripperHello Everybody
01:14:43earHurtsstill, at this point no harm trying a repair, is there?
01:14:52earHurtshello track.
01:14:56BoD[]i opened it twice
01:15:00BoD[]resolder it
01:15:03tracktheripperhello Earhurts
01:15:06BoD[]it works a bit better
01:15:11BoD[]but still reboots
01:15:11tracktheripperZagor can I ask u something plz?
01:15:19BoD[]and i'm not very good at soldering
01:15:27earHurtshnmn. you sure it's the solder?
01:15:36tracktheripperhi MT
01:15:41MTwhy do you put in such silly feature requests?
01:15:48BoD[]well it was completly "unsoldered" :) the parts were moving
01:15:49tracktheripperwhat now?!?!!
01:15:57tracktheripperwhat have I sent now?!?!
01:16:20tracktheripperAnswer me, what have I sent now?
01:16:21earHurtsyes, what was this feature request?
01:16:34DBUGSent KICK turbonegro to server
01:16:34turbonegroGood Night You @LL !!
01:16:37Kick(#rockbox turbonegro :Colourcodes are *not* appreciated here!) by logbot!
01:16:37 Join turbonegro [0] (
01:16:47 Part turbonegro
01:16:56tracktheripperthat was sent ages and ages ago
01:17:03tracktheripperi thought u was referring to my latest one
01:17:38tracktherippernow what is wrong with this one?
01:17:47earHurtsha! movies on thw archos!
01:18:23tracktheripperMT did u get my latest request??
01:19:10MTyeah i saw you talking about that one yesterday i think
01:19:17tracktheripperwhat do u think?
01:19:28MTi think it would require either guessing where the "red line" is
01:20:04MTor having to establish by examining the data when its clipping (impossible due to hardware limitations)
01:20:14earHurtsyes, what's the definition of 'red zone'?
01:20:22tracktheripperdid u get the pic I drew? Its attatched to the request
01:20:24 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
01:20:54earHurtsdescribe it, would you?
01:21:16tracktheripperThe end part of the peak meter is Inverted "the 'red zone"
01:21:33tracktheripperthere is a picture of it attached to the request titled "Peak Meter Improvement"
01:21:39earHurtsyeah, ok, I don't understand what a red zone is
01:21:52earHurtsbnut nice njpeg, i saw iut.
01:21:58 Quit [IDC]Dragon ("Leaving")
01:22:01tracktheripperlike on a tape deck's level meter
01:22:06tracktheripperthe end part of it is red
01:22:38earHurtsok, and how do you determine what that nzone is?
01:22:58earHurtswhat's the process/algorithim/hueristic?
01:23:22tracktheripperits just there as a guide
01:23:28tracktheripperdoesn't have to be 100% accurate
01:24:08earHurtsso you njust want the Nth rightmost part inreverse video.
01:24:28earHurtsno calculation required?
01:24:45MTpurely visual?
01:24:55DBUGSent KICK tracktheripper to server
01:24:55Kick(#rockbox tracktheripper :Stop repeating yourself) by logbot!
01:25:08 Join tracktheripper [0] (
01:25:10MTthat shouldnt be too hard to do tbh
01:25:10earHurtslimited utility
01:25:20MTpull out yer favourite editor
01:25:23MTand do a patch
01:25:27tracktheripperand an option to switch it on and off
01:25:59earHurtsdo you code at all, track?
01:26:26tracktheripperno because i don't know how to
01:26:52MTonly one way to learn :S
01:27:17earHurtsyes, this would nbe a decent learning projnect too
01:28:08earHurtsand #c would bne willing to help you, i'm sure
01:28:10MTembedded c can be a bit gory, but if you can cope with it, you wont find programming much else too hard
01:28:23earHurtsumn, c++?
01:28:25tracktheripperwell no-one here will teach me anyting
01:29:06earHurtsyou pronbably need to look in app/wps-display.c
01:29:39tracktheripperhang on
01:29:50tracktheripperearHurts do me a link to that please
01:30:06earHurtsfor inverse vido, draw a pixel where the current meter does not, and vice versa
01:30:18tracktheripperlink me to that please
01:30:24earHurtsdownload the source, track
01:30:32tracktheripperbut i dont have winzip
01:30:46earHurtsyou will need mnany things.
01:31:00earHurtsis your pc windows or linux?
01:31:15tracktheripperits Windows XP
01:31:32earHurtsah. first you need to install cygwin
01:31:44BoD[]or you can ust this :
01:32:15tracktheripperim downloading Winzip for sauce code
01:32:33earHurtscygwin may be a bnetter choice
01:32:53earHurtsas it gives him other tools
01:33:10BoD[]well.. why not
01:33:20BoD[]but it's the fast way I think :)
01:33:54earHurtsiis the win sdk nbased on mingw or cygwin?
01:34:26BoD[]good question cygwin I think
01:34:38earHurtstraxk, you have a modem or dsl?
01:35:24earHurtsmingw can bne hard to configure sonmetimnes.
01:35:41tracktheripperi have ADSL
01:35:50earHurtsoh, good.
01:36:07earHurtsgo to, and install cygwin.
01:36:11BoD[]it seems to be cygwin
01:36:21earHurtsyou have admin rights on your pc?
01:36:58earHurtswith cygwin he gets perl and cvs too
01:37:06BoD[]definitelly cygwin :)
01:37:29earHurtsnot to mention bash
01:38:02tracktheripperit that all inclusive?
01:38:15BoD[]there's bash with this minimal sdk.. i'm not sure about perl
01:38:32tracktheripperBod Why don't you email me all the bits?
01:38:52earHurtsfirst you get cygwin, then you get the cross conmpiler, then you get win cvs, then you get the source.
01:39:09tracktheripperwell email me all the b its please
01:39:13tracktheripperI do have dsl after all
01:39:14earHurtstoo big for enmail
01:39:19BoD[]why email ?
01:39:23tracktheripperemail it as a ZIP file
01:39:28tracktheripperso I know I have everything
01:39:45earHurtsdude, we are talking megs upon megs
01:40:01BoD[]mail won't help you :)
01:40:10tracktheripperive extrackted the sorce code
01:40:12earHurtsbut it's a painless install
01:40:16tracktheripperwhere is the file for the PEAK METER
01:40:31BoD[]mouhaha :) peakmeter.c ? :)
01:40:32BoD[]don't know
01:40:36earHurtsapps/wps-display, probably
01:42:01tracktheripperits all Chinese to me, the code
01:42:25BoD[]you need to learn C
01:42:36earHurtsyes, it takes anbit of work
01:42:49tracktheripperwell im not even gonna consider trying
01:42:55tracktheripperi dont have time to learn C
01:43:05earHurtsoh dear
01:43:08BoD[]it's not a matter of time
01:43:31tracktheripperthats why i aske everyone else to coad for me
01:43:59BoD[]yeah .. you will become a Boss later !
01:44:08tracktheripperi know!!!
01:44:12BoD[]telling everybody to do something :)
01:44:20tracktheripperits just a case of inverting some pizels on the Peek Metre
01:44:47BoD[]yes but the real question is
01:44:53BoD[]are you interested in programming
01:45:01BoD[]if not, of course, don't learn C...
01:45:13tracktheripperim not interested
01:45:18tracktheripperim more interested in my Archos machine
01:45:40BoD[]don't you find it cool to program it yourself ?
01:45:49earHurtsah apps/recorder/peakmeter.c
01:45:59tracktheripperno i don't
01:46:25tracktheripperok im 'in' the C file now
01:46:49earHurtshaha! sonmenbody used an inline!
01:47:02BoD[]inline ?
01:47:08earHurtsis inline a c99 keyword?
01:47:18tracktheripperim in the c file now
01:47:56BoD[]what is inline
01:48:21earHurtsah, we forgot the peakmneter can nbe scaled.
01:48:39tracktheripperdon't worry i wont send any more requests
01:48:59earHurtsinline in c++ requests the the compiler lexically replace the function call with its body.
01:49:06tracktheripperif every request i send will be rejected (simply because I sent it)
01:49:13BoD[]ah right..
01:49:21tracktheripperi bet if someone else sent my requests they would NOT be rejected
01:49:24BoD[]what's the use of that ? :)
01:49:29earHurtsthe idea is to avoid function call overhead at the cost of increased code size.
01:49:50earHurtsthe compiler is free to ignore the request.
01:50:10BoD[]it's a ... trick :)
01:50:34 Quit mecraw ("Trillian (")
01:50:39earHurtsit's an optimization, yeah
01:51:27earHurtsok, lines 794 thriugh 824
01:53:22tracktheripperim bored
01:53:32earHurtsok track, in will make you a deal
01:54:33earHurtsstudy those lines, and tell me nhow you think they should change for your request to nbe implemented.
01:54:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:55:12earHurtsI will implement what you propose, if it makes any sort of sense.
01:55:52tracktheripperyouve lost me
01:56:09BoD[]you're fun
01:56:32earHurtswell, hee's pronblemn. the peakmeter doesn't look exactly like you njpeg
01:56:44elinenbehow come when I do a configure and I want to build the demos, they don't seem to get compiled −− at least the firmware does not show the menu item "Demos"
01:56:49earHurtsat least on mny fm
01:57:09earHurtsdemos were removed for space reasons
01:57:32earHurtsi'm working on a patch that willn savw about w
01:57:39earHurts2.5 kb
01:57:53BoD[]how ?
01:57:54tracktheripperjust Invert the last part of the Peak Meter
01:58:15earHurtsoh, ok
01:58:53earHurtseven the vertical bnar at the right end?
01:59:09tracktheripperJust do it and let me know how u get on
01:59:25earHurtsnbut there's no backround, it'll njust disappear.
01:59:50earHurtsbod: the settings code is repitious.
02:00:07BoD[]ah ok :)
02:00:13earHurtsno, track, that's not my deal.
02:00:27tracktheripperso what 'is' the deel then?
02:00:28BoD[]you'll factorize what's .. factorizable
02:00:31earHurtsunless it's work for hire. ;)
02:00:32elinenbeI am talking about compiling my own.
02:00:37earHurtsbod precisely
02:01:07earHurtselin, to include the demos, you'll have to remove somnething else
02:01:46earHurtstrack, i'll do it IF you study the code and tell nme precisely what shiuld be done.
02:02:04earHurtsand not at my usual hourly nrate.
02:02:23tracktheripperi give up
02:02:28tracktheripperreally I do
02:02:49earHurtsbod, i,ve actually done most of it; thw quoted space saved is from actuall file nsizes
02:03:15BoD[]source files ?
02:03:31earHurtstrack, you'll have a hard tinme finding a nbetter deal ;)
02:03:39tracktheripperi give u
02:03:53earHurtssource when i'bne regression tested it, not before
02:04:24BoD[]2.5kb in the sources .. what will it be on the binary ?
02:04:38earHurtssorry, i was unclear.
02:04:46earHurts2.5 in the binary
02:04:52BoD[]ah :) right
02:05:15earHurtssource size change is minimal
02:05:46BoD[]by the way I wonder if there is an "average" source to binary ratio
02:06:10earHurtswell, of course ther is an avergae, nbut...
02:06:20earHurtsknow any assembly?
02:06:29BoD[]yes a bit
02:06:49earHurtsit's been a while, nbut;
02:07:18earHurts.dw rep 1024 0
02:07:35BoD[]hm ? :)
02:08:00 Quit tracktheripper ("Leaving")
02:08:02earHurtsi.e., nfill up data space with 1024 words, all of them will value 0
02:08:19BoD[]ah :)
02:08:54earHurtssource size is 15 bytes, binary is 1024 * sizeof word
02:09:42earHurtsof course, it's an extreme case.
02:09:53BoD[]aha :) yes
02:10:04earHurtsactually, you've asked the cenntral question of information theory
02:10:13BoD[]because I guess "normal" sources are bigger than the binary
02:10:48earHurtsthey define 'complexity' as that ratio
02:11:19earHurtsdescription over uh, 'output'
02:11:22BoD[]well I think my question was if there's such a ratio, does it have a meaning ? like if your binary is more than 10 times less than your sources, it means your project is "bad designed" or something
02:12:05earHurtsgood question
02:12:25BoD[]i know there are source analysis utilities that count the rations of comments or stuff like that
02:12:37BoD[]and then make a report :)
02:12:38earHurtsof course there are well known trad noffs
02:12:50earHurtscrap in nmy opinion
02:13:06BoD[]why ?
02:13:34earHurtsbecuase it'ns easy to write line after line
02:13:55earHurtsthe idea of code is nto abstract common cases out
02:14:38earHurtsinmagine a naive program to do additiin, which hardcode all operands and results.
02:14:47BoD[]yes but these utilities can also help to detect problems in the code !
02:14:56BoD[]like function that are never called
02:15:34earHurtsif( operand1 == 1 && operand2 == 1 ) return 2 else if....
02:15:48earHurtsoh sure, that's useful.
02:16:12earHurtsquantifying isn't, iin my opinion, often useful
02:16:20earHurtsas we lackn good nmetrics
02:16:36earHurtsbut good code doesn tens to nbe small
02:16:43earHurtswell deconmposed
02:16:51earHurtsand re-useable
02:17:04BoD[]does or doesn't ?!
02:17:18earHurtsmy nbest work is made up of small functions and onbjnects
02:17:41earHurtsonbjects −− i'm a c++ coder at heart
02:18:10BoD[]in fact i'm a Java coder :)
02:18:35earHurtsthat's what i do at work
02:18:45BoD[]did you know next version of Java will support templates ? :)) I guess it can be a good joke to c++ developpers
02:19:10earHurtstemplates are wonbdeful. casting is terrible
02:19:23BoD[]true !
02:19:45earHurtsString s = (String) hash.get( id ) )
02:19:54BoD[]but when they created Java they were like "we've taken c++ and removed unusefull or complicated parts, like templates"
02:20:01BoD[]and now they put it back
02:20:11earHurtsthey were wrong
02:20:34BoD[]well maybe it was a marketing trick :)
02:20:38earHurtshell, String overloads operator+, whycan't my objnect
02:21:07BoD[]make an "easy" language, it will become popular. . Then when it's popular give it power
02:21:19earHurtsin was supposed to nmake a phone call
02:21:27BoD[]woosp :)
02:21:38earHurtsbut you get a bunch of nbad programmers
02:21:55earHurtssomne who don't even understand OO
02:22:40earHurtsif you don't want to do real OO, then use c++, which allows OO or non-OO
02:22:41 Join |nso|dead [0] (
02:22:41BoD[]but maybe it's better to have bad programmers doing Java than them doing C++ :)
02:23:02earHurtsbnad progranmmners don't do c++ long.
02:23:10earHurtsvery steep learning curve
02:23:42earHurtsyou know, in passed njava certificationn bEFORE i evern conmnpiled any njava?
02:24:00BoD[]you did it on paper ?
02:24:13earHurtsand i knew c++
02:24:14BoD[]cool :)
02:24:30earHurtsc++ prepares you for a lot
02:24:33|nso|deadwhen you install the "rockbox" os, do all the files on it get deleted ?
02:24:51BoD[]|nso|dead: nop
02:24:54earHurtsnso< none get delted
02:25:15|nso|deadso if u have lots of mp3s on it and decide to change os, nothing gets lost ?
02:25:23earHurtsthe extra copy of the archos firmware, if you have it, is overwritten
02:25:26BoD[]|nso|dead: nop
02:25:31|nso|deadnice :)
02:25:46earHurtsit's a no worry
02:25:53BoD[]earHurts : do you code a lot for embedded and/or other small devices ?
02:26:02earHurtsbod never have
02:26:12earHurtsnbefore rocknbox of course
02:26:24BoD[]do you like it ? :)
02:26:26earHurtsand my contribs are small
02:26:28|nso|deadi might change to the rockbox os then, if its that much better than the archos firmware ?
02:26:39earHurtsyes, and it is
02:27:00earHurtsbod: i do, though i'd prfer c++
02:27:13BoD[]so you prefere high level
02:27:41earHurtsi prefer design nby contract anbd abnstraction
02:28:03earHurtsc++ can nbe low level, unlike java
02:28:13BoD[]well i would call that high level
02:28:34earHurtsit,s all in the attitude.
02:28:34BoD[]or .. level higher than C for embeded devices :)
02:28:48earHurtsI wrote 'OO' assemnbly
02:28:57BoD[]really ?!
02:29:07earHurtsin the sense that i passed around pointers to structs
02:29:32earHurtsnothing that impressive
02:29:47BoD[]it "sounds" impressive :)
02:29:59BoD[]anyway assembly impresses me
02:30:24earHurtsno more so than a pointer ton strucy and arrays of pointer to function
02:30:40earHurtsin wish java had function pointers.
02:30:51earHurtsand no, not reflection
02:31:02earHurtsreal ptfs
02:31:36earHurtsfunctors, of course can nbe used
02:31:57BoD[]what is functor ? sounds "fun" ;)
02:32:19earHurtsan onbnjnect that acts like a function
02:32:34BoD[]like it has only one method?
02:32:41earHurtsnbut can nbe passed and be stateful, like an object
02:33:02earHurtsyes, it has one interestung method
02:33:45BoD[]so when did you need real function pointers then
02:33:52earHurtsin c+ it ncan bne syntacticly indistinguishable fronm a function call
02:34:17earHurtswhen i use a framework that is not really onbject oriented
02:34:47earHurtsyou're familiar with beans, right?
02:35:04earHurtsgetFoo' set Foo
02:35:05 Join Jet8810 [0] (
02:35:25earHurtsok, say I want to validate some nbeans
02:35:26Jet8810heh, wow, Bob Marley really is awesome...
02:35:34earHurtsyah' mom
02:35:37BoD[]jet : ??
02:35:40earHurtser, mon
02:35:59Jet8810Bod, listening to it now, lol
02:36:04BoD[]ah :)
02:36:04Jet8810earhurts, INFADEL!
02:36:07Jet8810thtas not how jamaicans talk
02:36:23earHurtsyeah, i know
02:36:35Jet8810alright, just checking
02:36:41Jet8810what MP3 did you end up getting anyway?
02:36:47Jet8810(or is that somebody else?)
02:36:48earHurtsi'll play '7 variations on godn save the king'
02:37:05earHurtswhat mp3?
02:37:34Jet8810werent you the one MP3 player searching guy?
02:38:08earHurtsmaybe that was earSearch :)
02:38:23earHurtsi smell pizza
02:38:34BoD[]hey do your ear hurts ?
02:38:37BoD[]and if so, why
02:38:54earHurtsi had a really painful ear infection
02:39:47earHurtsbetter now
02:40:38earHurtsyou a coder, njet?
02:41:08Jet8810im a user/leecher
02:42:18earHurtsyou want an inverted peakmeter?
02:43:55earHurtsif track had nbneenn willing to make an attempt at the code...
02:44:14BoD[]he gave up too soon
02:44:31BoD[]he's an .. upgiver
02:44:47earHurtsi mean, he just have had to nlearn what a for loop does
02:45:12BoD[]yes ! it's sad
02:45:24BoD[]but he said he's not interested in coding
02:45:36earHurtswhich is valid.
02:45:56Jet8810I will get aroudn to trying it
02:46:02earHurtsbut then he shouldn't wonder non one shares his priorities
02:46:03Jet8810doesnt interest me yet, but then again I have done nothing more then HTML
02:46:08Jet8810where soon after learning it, went to frontpage
02:46:22BoD[]arg :)
02:46:32earHurtshey, it's not for everyone
02:46:45BoD[]but .. now do you like the fact that you understand how it works ?
02:46:54earHurtsit's so cool to bne anble to tell tnhe bnox what to do
02:47:06BoD[]it's cool to understand how something works "behind the scenes"
02:47:34earHurtsthe magic goes away
02:47:47earHurtsand it's nmore magical for that
02:48:04earHurtsever read anny dawkins?
02:48:15BoD[]dawkins ? who is he
02:48:37earHurtsevolutionary biologist.
02:48:53earHurtsironically underwritten by charles simonyi
02:49:06earHurtsof hungarian notation infamy
02:49:37BoD[]wow :)
02:49:47BoD[]no never read him
02:49:48earHurtsdawkins coined the termn 'selfish gene'
02:49:56earHurtsand 'meme'
02:50:12BoD[]what are they
02:50:43earHurtsa meme is a hypothetical 'mind virus'
02:51:14earHurtsthe idea is that ideas replicate by using hunan nminds.
02:52:03earHurtslike a religion meme might replicate by convincing its thinks they won't go to heaven unless the convert other to the religion
02:52:52earHurtsso the meme spreads, regardless of its intrinsic worth or validity
02:53:03earHurtsas do genes
02:53:31 Quit BoD[] (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:53:59earHurtsi guess nbod won't catch the 'meme' meme
02:54:16 Join BoD[] [0] (
02:54:23BoD[]I'm sorry
02:54:30BoD[]my computer crashed
02:54:53earHurtsha. I just speculated you wouldn't catch the 'meme' meme
02:54:56PsycoXul_it's more akin to genes than viruses, thus the term meme
02:55:02BoD[]i missed everything you said
02:55:09earHurtspsyco: yes
02:55:13BoD[]after "what is a meme"
02:55:42PsycoXul_like you pass on genes to offspring, you pass on memes when you give birth to ideas in others
02:56:07earHurtsgoogle on it. a meme is a nhypothetical replicator, an idea that acts to propagate itself
02:56:52BoD[]why were we talking about that :)
02:56:53earHurtsnote dawkins did not propose it seriously, although others have since dawkins coined the termn
02:57:07earHurtsi nbrought up dawkins
02:58:01earHurtsnmaking conversation
02:58:06BoD[]:) ok sorry
02:58:17BoD[]i thought something made you think about him
02:59:24earHurtsthere are people who hate scientific reductionism
02:59:50BoD[]I agree
02:59:55earHurtsthey think knowing nhow stuff works takes away the magic, the sense of wonder
03:00:22earHurtsyou mentioned the njoy nof knowinng how things work
03:00:55BoD[]well for example I think everythink is predetermined
03:01:32BoD[]well yes! everything has a cause
03:02:01BoD[]and everything happening could not happen differently given its set of causes
03:02:06earHurtsalgorithmic universe/
03:02:26BoD[]yes ! it seems very "normal" to me
03:02:34earHurtsdennett argues it doesn't much matter
03:02:41BoD[]but I know some people who do not share this vision
03:03:31earHurtsperhaps free will is an illusion, nbnut it seenms real enough
03:03:59earHurtsso i nmight as well act as if it does
03:04:24BoD[]yes well free will is what your "mind" decides to do... But when you know your mind is just your brain, and your brain is just cells which are particles... there you go :)
03:04:35earHurtsi nhope so!
03:04:57earHurtsin want to downnload my brain into silicon
03:05:17BoD[]i think it will be someday possible
03:05:39earHurtshope so
03:07:30BoD[]no hurting ears in a silicon life
03:07:46earHurtsor heartn attacks
03:07:53BoD[]yes :)
03:07:59BoD[]but ... no sex I guess
03:08:11BoD[]which is not cool
03:08:25earHurtswell, no reason not to attach periperals
03:08:33BoD[]hhaha :)
03:10:37BoD[]where is screen.c ???????
03:10:55earHurtslcd screen code, i assume
03:11:45BoD[]it's not here
03:12:07earHurtswhere is it referenced' then?
03:12:20BoD[]oh right it's screenS.c ;)
03:15:47earHurtsmust get food.
03:16:39BoD[]ok i've done my FIRST firmware modification :)
03:16:48BoD[]it's cool
03:17:38earHurtswhat did you do?
03:18:03BoD[]i changed the F2 menu :) so it only has repeat all or repeat one on right button
03:18:21BoD[]I removed the "no repeat" as i found it annoying
03:18:32BoD[]it's a small change :) but it works
03:18:54earHurtswhy's no repeat annoy?
03:19:09BoD[]well because I never use it
03:19:18BoD[]but I use often repeat One
03:19:39BoD[]but then when i've repeated the track enough, I want to clik only once
03:19:43earHurtsok, now nnake it configurable
03:19:54earHurtssettings code is a pain
03:20:14BoD[]héhé :)
03:20:22BoD[]well why would I make it configurable
03:20:51earHurtsso otnhers can use it
03:21:22BoD[]yes but.. i'm not sure other people would be interested in that "feature"
03:21:27earHurtslet's see, if there are 8 or less optins, you can make a char into a bitmask
03:21:35BoD[]or "feature removal" actually ;)
03:22:43earHurtslet's genneralize.
03:23:12BoD[]=> key bindings ;)
03:23:16earHurtsconfiguranble function screenns
03:23:31earHurtspointers to func
03:24:17BoD[]but that's a lot of work
03:24:44BoD[]it needs a way to describe the menus in a config file I think
03:24:57earHurtsbecause each function interogates the keys itself
03:25:28earHurtsminimal abnstraction layer
03:26:31earHurtsto decrinbe the options
03:29:12BoD[]so anyway
03:29:26BoD[]i might go to bed now
03:29:54earHurtswhat zone are you in?
03:30:07BoD[]gmt+1 (paris)
03:30:28BoD[]are you english ?
03:31:00BoD[]ok! from what state ?
03:31:03earHurtsgod it is late for you
03:31:18BoD[]yes :) but don't worry I have no work tomorrow
03:31:26earHurtsdc. i used to hang with cooperants at your embassy
03:31:44BoD[]really? why
03:31:57earHurtsnjust to party
03:32:02BoD[]ah :)
03:32:12earHurtsi had an ex who spoke french
03:32:52earHurtsanyway, sleep well
03:33:16BoD[]well thanks ! it was a pleasure to speak with you :)
03:33:20BoD[]see you
03:33:26earHurtssee you
03:33:40 Quit BoD[] ("mblelop")
03:33:41earHurtsnice chatting
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03:56:54 Join Nilisco [0] (
03:57:16Niliscowill formatting the jukebox recorder to ntfs have any bad effects?
03:59:11Niliscoah,just read a fat32 part.
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04:27:49 Join Yeft [0] (
04:27:58Yeftrealllly quick question if anyone is here!
04:28:26Yefti doubt that
04:28:36Yeftplease help
04:28:49PsycoXul_just ask it, if anyone can answer they will, eventualy heh
04:29:02Yeftlol ok
04:29:39Yefti'm using windows xp, and i wanted to know if there was i way i could check to see if i have usb 2.0 (yeh, im a newb at this kinda stuff) but i just bought an fm recorder, and it'd be nice to know
04:30:27PsycoXul_when i first plugged mine into windows XP
04:30:40PsycoXul_it came up with a warning about a high-speed USB device on a usb1.1 bus
04:30:45PsycoXul_since i noly have usb1.1
04:30:58 Nick PsycoXul_ is now known as PsycoXul (
04:31:00Yeftso i'll know when i get it the : )
04:32:34Yeftlol i found the answer in an aol chat
04:40:06Yeftthanks psyco..seeya
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05:04:46 Quit hardeep ("[BX] Dr. Kavorkian would KILL to use BitchX. Shouldn't you?")
05:07:04 Join Stevie-O [0] (
05:09:32jzossnot a whole lot. =) Just chillin. And reviewing TP Diffenbach's generalized-id3v2 code.
05:11:14Stevie-Oi still need someone with a Playher
05:11:37jzossPost request to mailing list? Might be faster than trying to catch someone in IRC
05:13:22Stevie-Oat that rate, I may as well just wait for Zag to send it tomorrow
05:13:35Stevie-Ohave you seen the SS?
05:13:48jzossYour emulator SS? yah, it's cool
05:14:09jzossMade me happy when you said "Oh, the old firmware does boxes?" today. =)
05:14:26Stevie-Owhy's that?
05:14:57Stevie-Oand it's not "old firmware", it's the Recorder firmware
05:15:05Stevie-Othe FM has a solid bar (as the SS shows)
05:15:41jzossJust 'cause it means the emulator's at least initially working. And that you'd be deep enough into the HW that you're wrestling with assembly details, but some (relatively) high-level things are still kinda surprising. =)
05:15:57jzoss{shrug}...Or maybe I was just in a smiling-mood at the time
05:17:02Stevie-OI"ve never used a Recorder Recorder
05:17:07Stevie-OI only have an FM
05:17:24jzossmakes sense to me! Noone (other than Linus, maybe) needs to own each of the Archos models. ;)
05:20:05*Stevie-O makes a new SS
05:25:57jzosswhere's the SS @? fun to look at?
05:26:09Stevie-Ojust uploaded
05:26:53jzoss=) looks right to me!
05:27:00earHurts TP Diffenbach's generalized-id3v2 code sux0rs
05:27:14jzoss2 blocks == disk access?
05:27:27Stevie-Ojzoss: I assume that's what it's trying to do
05:27:32Stevie-Osince I have no ATA emulation yet :D
05:27:51jzossheh. Understandably a good "stopping point" (for now)
05:27:55Stevie-Othe corresponding display (in the first SS) is about where my real FM turns on the HD
05:28:12Stevie-Othat's why I was trying to do whatever it took to get the LCD emulation working
05:28:32Stevie-OI figured, I'd have something sorta tangible to show that it was working
05:28:42jzossyup. I dig it.
05:30:06earHurtsnjzoss, any questions abnout the id3 code?
05:30:32Stevie-OOne of the people I gave the SS url to
05:30:36jzossWhere's offsetof() at? That's what I'm currently hunting for. =) On windows, though, without a local CVS copy or grep. =)
05:30:41Stevie-O'WTF resolution do you run at?'
05:30:59earHurtsoffset of is defined in stddef.h
05:30:59Stevie-Ojzoss: Ultraedit
05:31:17earHurtsit's a part of the ansi standard
05:31:27jzossyah, I normally run linux. I'm just too lazy to reboot now. ;)
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05:32:04earHurtsstevie, is your emu availanble for download?
05:32:13Stevie-Ojzoss: UnxUtils
05:32:33jzossright, right. And I have cygwin installed, too. Laziness, I tell you... pure laziness. =)
05:32:56Stevie-Oinherent side effect of using Linux
05:33:07Stevie-Oyou get lazy, what with not having to patch IE every six minutes
05:33:12earHurtsoffsetof allows us to have something sinmilar to a pointer to member
05:33:26jzossI'm just bringing my id3tag editor up to snuff with the new id3 code.
05:33:55jzossI figured the (generic-id3) code would be incorporated sooner or later, so I've been procrastinating updating the id3edit patch. =)
05:35:06earHurtsdo you find it easy to use, annd understand?
05:35:57jzossConceptually, yes. I'm just sorting out what code actually does what at this point. =)
05:37:11earHurtswe iterate through each tag - that's not new - and for each tag iterate through taglist, looking for a nmatch
05:38:08earHurtszagor changed that to nmemcmp rather than strncmp, i'm not sure why
05:39:06earHurtsif we find a match, we use the mnp3entry + the offset as a char*
05:39:29jzossright, I got it.
05:39:33earHurtsa char** actually
05:39:40jzossI was just wrestling with the double-dereferencing of ptag.
05:40:23jzossSince you've looked at the id3 code, earHurts, question for ya:
05:40:44earHurtswe want to change the pointer's value, not what's pointed to
05:41:25jzossTo preserve unsupported id3tags when writing out edited tags back to the file, my current algorithm scans the existing file and copies out all the unsupported tags to a temporary file.
05:41:43jzossI thought of two ways to stick in this code:
05:43:01jzoss1) add an extra argument to the existing setid3v2title code (that scans and reads tags) to write out unsupported tags. The id3edit code would then flip this flag when it does its initial scan. All other times setid3v2title code would work as it does today
05:44:39jzoss2) Move much of the setid3v2title code to a separate (even MORE generalized) "scanid3v2tags" function, with a function-pointer parameter to control what is done with the scanned tags. So setid3v2title would call this scanning function with a function-pointer to store tag values in the entry struct. And my writeid3v2 code would call the same scanning func with a function pointer to write out unsupported tags to a tmpFile.
05:44:52jzossCase 2 seems overkill, I think. But Case 1 seems a little odd.
05:49:24jzossEarHurts? Still there? Think I found a bug in your id3.c additions...
05:49:50earHurts stevie?
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05:51:39 Nick wefiozfwuweewf is now known as OliverKlozoff (
05:54:44*OliverKlozoff yawns
05:54:52OliverKlozoffLucky there's a family guy
05:54:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:54:57OliverKlozoffLucky there's a man who
05:55:00OliverKlozoffPositively can do
05:55:08OliverKlozoffAll the things that make us
05:55:11OliverKlozofff'in cryyyyyyy
05:56:56earHurtscam|aign slogan?
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05:58:41jzossyou there, earHurts?
05:59:23jzossI may have found bug in your id3.c additions...
05:59:47earHurtsdo tell!
06:00:12jzossparsenum: "entry->tracknum = atoi( tag );
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06:00:43jzossBut it's used for YEAR also
06:01:07earHurtshod on
06:02:04jzossSo doesn't that mean id3 parsing of TYER will wrongly set tracknum to the year value? If TYER occurs after TRCK...
06:02:11earHurtsyes it's a vbug
06:02:32earHurtsnmy diff had two different functions.
06:03:00jzossheh. =) It must've been "improved" during patching. =)
06:03:04earHurtszagor collapsed thenm into one, which introduced the bug
06:03:21jzossyou want me to file a bug report?
06:03:40jzossOther, unrelated question:
06:03:55jzossid3 tag display code, right now, is not very generalized
06:04:03earHurtsi'm a little worries that using nmemcmp is technically unsafe too
06:04:17jzossIn particular, there's no tying of LANG_ID strings to your generalized tag list
06:04:26jzossSo display code must still be "hardcoded"
06:04:41earHurtsi thought of doing that too
06:04:46OliverKlozoffwhy is memcmp technically unsafe?
06:04:57jzossWhat do you think about making taglist publically-accessible and adding a LANG_ID entry to the structure?
06:05:13earHurtsnbecuase it doesn't stop on (char)0
06:05:47OliverKlozoffis it like this?
06:05:53OliverKlozoffup to 4 chars long
06:05:56OliverKlozoff<4 chars is 0-padded?
06:06:01earHurtsi like the idea
06:06:15earHurtsoliver, right
06:06:20OliverKlozoffif so, perhaps a 'strncmp' is what you need
06:06:32jzoss'kay. We could put a wrapper around the access, if you'd like to keep taglist private.
06:06:46earHurtsi'll have to review the nbuffer the actual tag is copied to
06:07:19earHurtsi suspect it's only possinble to overun if we have a pathalogical tag in the mp3
06:07:38jzossearHurts: Don't think it's an issue, right? 'cause the file tag is not zero-padded. Either 3 chars or 4 chars, depending on version
06:08:14earHurtsnjzoss: i didn't notice the id3 displayer until henrik backe brought it to mny attention
06:08:50earHurtsnjzoss: that's what i'm unsure of
06:08:59jzossS'all good. That's part of what my id3v2 editor addresses (if accepted). I replace the current id3v2 browser with a line-based version + scrollbar (like tree + menu displays)
06:09:16jzossNo, I'm 99% sure about the 3chars vs 4chars.
06:09:41earHurtsbut i'm happy to make the taglist pubnlic
06:10:29earHurtsjzoss: there's also an error in the comnposer entry, the 5 should be a 4. see my email to the list.
06:10:43jzoss(from rockbox docs): id3v2.3.0 frame hdr : FrameID $xx xx xx xx, Size $xx xx xx xx, Flags $xx xx
06:11:36jzossid3v2.2.0 frame hdr: FrameID: $xx $xx $xx, Size $xx xx xx
06:12:38earHurtsok, good. thanks
06:13:35earHurtsperhaps an accessor function is a better idea howevr.
06:13:40jzossAny reason why we're keeping both numeric and text values of several tags? Rather than putting the translation to/from string code in read/write id3v1 ??
06:14:16earHurtsthis was my first patch. ;)
06:14:30earHurtsi wanted to be nicely backward conmpatible
06:14:35jzossgotchya. My editID3 patch will never get accepted. It touches too many things.
06:15:12earHurtswhy's it have to touch so much?
06:15:13jzossI'm just concerned with the tag-editing part. If I allow freeform-text editing of all fields, then I have to string->numeric convert after editing.
06:15:35earHurtsjust allow editing of strings.
06:15:58earHurtsconverting to/from string loses, except for tracknunm
06:16:04jzossHmmm.... Mostly touches id3.c and wps.c, but there's pieces in other files, too. =)
06:16:12earHurtstracknum is special
06:16:39jzossYah, but if we have numeric fields around for "backwards compatability", I really need to make sure those stay sync'd up after editing the corresponding strings
06:16:50earHurtsyour patch will chnage the mp3 file, right
06:17:19earHurts njust change strings, then re-read the tag
06:17:25earHurtspronblem solved
06:17:32jzossGood point. So I can ignore syncing there, since it'll be written and re-read immediately
06:18:07earHurtsdon't take this the wrong way, nbut....
06:18:11jzossAlthough I wanted to keep the "old-school" editors for genre/year/tracknum, since they may be easier to use than totally freeform text...
06:18:31earHurtsyou still have to write the string
06:18:36jzossAnd that would require some kind of string->numeric conversion. So maybe I'll put the old-school editor functions off for patch v2
06:18:43earHurtsexcept for genre
06:19:28earHurtsbut isn't editing tags on the archos rather tedious?
06:19:41earHurtswithout a keyboard, i nmean?
06:19:43jzossI use it for editing tags I notice are wrong while things are playing
06:19:51jzossNot wholesale entering.
06:19:59jzossOr for adding tags to a just-created recording.
06:20:07earHurtsgood point
06:20:30earHurtswhat pc bnased tag editor do you use?
06:20:57jzossI use "MP3 Tag Tools" on Windows, but haven't found a linux one I really like.
06:21:31earHurtsdoes tag tools offer regular expressions?
06:21:33jzossthe windows one also has batch-setTags from aribtrary (wps-cfg-style) file/pathnames and batch-setFilename from tags
06:21:56jzossWhat're you thinking of when you say "regex"? For what part of tagging?
06:22:21earHurtsfor changing a filenamne into tags, for instance
06:22:33earHurtsor vice versa
06:23:00earHurtssplitting titles into parts, etc.
06:23:18jzossNah. Looks like their GUI is: artist/title/album/year/comment/track, change order of tags, change separators inbetween each tag element, etc. But not freeform regex
06:23:42earHurtsyou might like mp3 book editor then
06:24:06jzosswhere? Google can't find it
06:24:30earHurtsmnp3 book helper i nmean
06:24:43jzossfound it
06:24:52earHurtsvery sweet
06:25:11earHurtsand the author is great abnout feature rewuests
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06:26:07jzossYah, it looks pretty cool... I'll have to try that. =)
06:26:37earHurtsthe dev build now handles all id3 tags, too
06:26:59earHurtslittle request of mnine.
06:27:24earHurtsi wanted titn1 & tit3
06:27:52earHurtsgonna patch rnb to add those two too
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06:28:25jzossCool. As long as you can keep thinking up wps-format codes. ;)
06:29:06*OliverKlozoff adds a %tits tag that draws a naked chick on the screen (recorder/fm only)
06:30:45earHurtsi'm think tit1 %iw = work, tit3 %is mn subtitle
06:31:17OliverKlozoffwhat if it was like
06:31:53jzossyeah, that's what I was leaning towards. Although I was thinking maybe something like %ip (performance?) for tit1
06:31:59jzossI like %iw okay, though
06:32:34OliverKlozoffwhat do you think of the more generic form '%2{tit1}' ?
06:33:09earHurtsthat would mean a nbetter parses
06:33:32earHurtswhich bulks the code
06:33:54OliverKlozoffwhat if you had a text file (something akin to a .wps) file
06:33:59OliverKlozoffp tit1
06:34:12earHurtsuwe'd still need to parse
06:34:17OliverKlozoffs tit2
06:34:41jzossAlthough it kinda fits well into the arbitrary-id3 handling of things. =) You could probably use the ID3 tag keys, and have wps hook in automatically to the taglist.
06:34:44OliverKlozoffthat made 'p'/'s' reference 'tit1'/'tit2'?
06:35:40earHurtsyeah, but i hate comparing strinngs when i cann compare values
06:36:01OliverKlozoff(and nowhere else)
06:36:08OliverKlozoffit's way too late at night for me to think
06:36:17jzosshehe. I'm headed to sleep, too
06:36:17*OliverKlozoff watches Darkwing Duck
06:36:23earHurtsme too.
06:36:27jzossThx for the help, earHurts
06:36:27OliverKlozofflet's get dangerous!
06:36:37earHurtsthanks for the bnug, jzoss!
06:36:50earHurtsno seriously
06:37:25earHurtsi don't want people thinking my code is bnuggy
06:37:48jzossnono. Typo != buggy. =) No blame. Only open-source joy.
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06:43:28 Part jzoss
07:16:38*OliverKlozoff wonders who these idle people are
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07:43:34 Join Guest [0] (
07:43:41Guesti need some help yo
07:43:55Guestbout gettin the 400 file limit off
07:44:00Guestanyone kno bou t taht>?
07:44:59>>>"sup" by Guest (
07:45:01>>>"u fucker" by Guest (
07:46:12earHurtsthe newenst version makes that configurable
07:47:05earHurtsyou must shut down and reboot to use the new limit, however
07:50:01Guestwill it work in 2.0
07:54:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:56:02OliverKlozoffthat's why he said 'the newest version'
08:05:25earHurtsyou recall what average file length is?
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09:54:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:39:39dwihno\o/ Bagder \o/
10:40:25dwihnoJa! :) Härlig morning indeed
10:40:35dwihnoJävla regnweather bara.
10:40:42dwihnoHow's the weather in Stockhell?
10:40:54Bagderwarm and sunny
10:42:05dwihnoIt's cloudy and rainy here :(
10:42:15dwihnoI wonder how it is in Linköping
10:42:21Bagderlet me cheer you up:
10:42:33Bagderbookmark patch is about to get added!
10:42:38dwihnoI never use bookmarks ;)
10:42:49dwihnoRockbox has all features I need
10:43:41dwihnoThe only thing usable right now would be an easier access to the sound configuration menu
10:44:01dwihnoAnd perhaps some changes under the hood to the configuration stuff
11:01:08Bagdererror: max firmware size is 200KB!
11:01:08 Quit ken0_ (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
11:07:48dwihnoYou want me to explain the problem for you? ;)
11:08:16Bagdernah, it would be enough if you just fix it :-O
11:10:08dwihnoI've found a good compression algorithm...
11:10:20dwihnoRead all about it.
11:11:24 Join ken0_ [0] (
11:11:37dwihnoAny news about the module loading?
11:11:52Bagderwe discussed it briefly yesterday
11:12:07Bagderwhile having lots of ales ;-)
11:12:07dwihnoAny findings?
11:12:12Bagdernot really
11:12:39Bagderits a big can of worms, so it takes a little time to gather energy
11:12:56dwihnoI am curious how much will be "saved" int he firmware.
11:13:07Bagdermaking the simulator work with it is also tricky
11:14:03dwihnoForgot about that
11:14:40dwihnowhen the limit is hit, the games are byebye for now, right?
11:14:53BagderI guess so
11:20:19dwihnoNo games :D
11:23:04 Quit Guest1 (
11:23:32NJoinGuest1 [0] (
11:25:39 Join matsl [0] (
11:32:48 Join |nso|dead [0] (
11:40:33 Quit Bagder ("")
11:41:03 Quit ken0_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:41:50|nso|deadcan anyone tell me where the root folder on my jukebox is? i dont know shit about this stuff..
11:42:49 Join Zagor [242] (
11:43:04 Quit Zagor (Client Quit)
11:44:05 Join Zagor [242] (
11:50:15|nso|deadcan someone help me with installing the rockbox firmware ?
11:50:30Zagorwhat is the problem?
11:50:53|nso|deadcant find the rootfolder on the jukebox..
11:52:08|nso|deadlike it says in the instruction, change old firmware name to ajbrec.ajz, but i cant even find the file to change its name :D
11:52:33|nso|deadnever done any of this stuff before.. dont understand shit
11:53:06Zagorthe root folder is the first folder on your disk. like c:\ is the root folder of your pc harddisk
11:54:59|nso|deadhow do i change the name of the old firmware ?
11:55:02***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:55:28Zagorif you don't have an ajbrec.ajz file in that folder, you don't need to change it
11:56:15|nso|deadi dont have any files on it..
11:56:48|nso|deadso all i have to do is unzip the file onto the disk ?
11:58:11|nso|deadand if i dont want it anymore i just delete the file and the jukebox will go back to using the archos firmware ?
12:03:51 Join tracktheripper [0] (
12:05:31Zagor|nso|dead: yes, correct
12:07:27|nso|deadand no other files i have on it, will be lost?
12:08:45*tracktheripper is feeling ill this morning
12:16:28Zagortracktheripper: too much beer last night? ;)
12:18:27tracktheripperyea, because everyone thinks my "Red Zone On Peak Meter" is yet another silly request
12:19:43tracktheripperu there zagor?
12:19:59tracktheripperwhat do u think of that request
12:20:00tracktheripper(be honest)
12:20:17Zagornothing special. not silly, but not terribly important either.
12:20:53tracktheripperi was thinking it would help you push the recording level to its limits without clipping :-)
12:21:14tracktheripperZagor there is something else you can mention on your website regarding usage of the SPDIF socket on the Recorders
12:22:03tracktheripperyou can mention those cables that have the 3.5mm jacks on BOTH ends. (I have one)
12:22:24tracktheripperall you mentioned are those Y-cables with the 2 RCA plugs at one end and the 3.5mm jack at the other end
12:22:57Zagorthat's because SPDIF input on amplifiers is 99% RCA connectors
12:23:27tracktheripperwell what about on a PCs sound card or MD recorders?
12:23:49tracktheripperthey use the same socket as on the Archos, and the only way to use those sockets is to get a cable with the 3.5mm jack at Both Ends
12:24:12Zagorwe can't cover everything in the faq. people using an md recorder with special a spdif connector knows what cable to use
12:24:17tracktheripperI have one and it works a treat recording from the digital out on my Sound card
12:24:45Zagorwe only cover the archos/rockbox side, not all other equipment
12:24:54tracktheripperthere should be a feature request "Turn Of Rejected, Invalid And Works For Me In SOurceforge"
12:27:07tracktheripperwhen is version 2.1 coming outr?
12:28:21tracktheripperfeature request "Make Zagor more cheereful in IRC"
12:28:58Zagor2.1 is coming soonish.
12:29:29tracktheripperwhat about "Make Zagor Smile In IRC"?
12:30:12Zagorcheck the logs. i do smile.
12:30:50tracktheripperin that case
12:31:17tracktherippernot "Rejected"
12:32:22Zagoryup :)
12:32:45tracktheripper((buys Zagor a pint of Guniess))
12:33:19Zagortracktheripper: you have to understand most of us developers are not here to chat socially, we are here to discuss rockbox development. that's why we appear boring to you.
12:35:03tracktheripperi still can't get this gnush thingy to work
12:36:07tracktheripperor cygwin
12:36:16dwihnoit's piece of pie
12:36:20dwihnodownload, unpack, run .reg
12:36:36tracktheripperhello dwihno
12:36:38tracktheripperive gotta go
12:36:43tracktherippergotta iron some shirts
12:36:51tracktheripperseeya zagor and dwihno
12:37:12 Quit tracktheripper ("Leaving")
12:54:30|nso|deadis there some kind of search function ?
12:54:54Zagor|nso|dead: no, not yet
12:55:27|nso|deadtoo bad :(
12:55:40|nso|deadcould really fo with a search function
12:56:00|nso|deadscrolling though a few thousand files isnt much fun
12:56:29Zagoryou should organise your files better
12:57:50Zagorwe still need a search function, but organising the files is good anyway
12:59:08|nso|deadyeah i have organised my files, im just thinking, if i hadnt organized them it WOULD have been a problem :)
13:38:47elinenbeZagor: are any of the other patches going to make it into 2.1?
13:39:01elinenbeZagor: I'm thinking about bookmarking here
13:39:21elinenbeZagor: and fade on stop/next :(
13:39:27Zagoryes, bagder has adopted the bookmarking patch and will work with it
13:39:39Zagorfade on stop already works
13:39:53Zagori never saw the point of fade on next
13:41:16elinenbeZagor: it makes it like the winamp mp3 player for windows. it's a nice touch
13:41:49|nso|deadwill there be a search function on 2.1 ?
13:41:50elinenbeit is like on the ipod, when you switch screens everything slides off to the left or right −− necessary? no. nice? yes!
13:55:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:56:08Zagor|nso|dead: no, probably not for 2.1.
14:00:12 Join Quelsaruk [20] (
14:52:30|nso|deadhow do u set the time ?
14:56:24Quelsarukon rockbox?
14:56:37Quelsarukgo to general settings, system set time
14:56:47|nso|deadokei.. thanks :D
15:03:26Quelsaruk|nso|dead: there's a cool manual :)
15:04:58 Nick Quelsaruk is now known as quel|lunch (
15:19:59 Join TBoy [0] (~xxx@
15:21:19TBoyhoi have you guys heared why the rockbox isn't being sold in Germany, France & perhaps else in europe anymore.
15:22:56TBoyI meant why the FM recorder isn't being sold anymore
15:23:34TBoyits because Archos got some problem with the F
15:23:52TBoyFM recording option
15:24:13TBoyand so it won't be sold in germany and france anymore
15:29:27*Stevie[FP] is back from [pewf] [gone 16hrs 31mins 24secs] [KS]
15:34:17TBoyso it won'T be produced anymore
15:34:42 Join Bagder [241] (
15:36:40 Quit TBoy ("Bye guys")
15:40:24 Join Snorlax [0] (
15:43:10 Join edx [0] (
15:49:05*Stevie[FP] yawns
15:49:28Stevie[FP]what's up?
15:50:00Bagderthe regular fiddling everywhere on tiny things ;-)
15:50:21Stevie[FP]I need Z to supply me with the Player roms
15:51:15Bagderno other player owner around awake?
15:51:19Stevie[FP]not that I've seen
15:51:26BagderZagor: booooo
15:51:32Stevie[FP]everybody's clever enough to have a Recorder or FM :D
15:51:44Stevie[FP]so the only people with Players are Linus and Z
15:52:12Bagdermatsl: you here?
15:52:58Stevie[FP]btw, I made an SS of the the Recorder last nite
15:53:26Bagderis that how far it reaches?
15:53:48Stevie[FP]I'm thinking that it's trying to access the HD some how
15:53:57Stevie[FP]which will of course fail miserably
15:54:04Bagdercould be, yes
15:54:06Stevie[FP]seeing as how I've added absolutely no ATA emulation yet
15:54:33Stevie[FP]it loops forever comparing r1 with r2
15:54:42Stevie[FP]since r1==r2, it will keep looping
15:55:04Stevie[FP]so I'm thinking it's relying on some sort of interrupt
15:55:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:55:34Stevie[FP]but since I don't understand how the interrupts happen
16:17:01 Nick quel|lunch is now known as Quelsaruk (
16:17:11Quelsarukmuy buenas tardes caballeros :)
16:29:06matslBagder: now im here. what?
16:29:27Bagdermatsl: do you have your player around?
16:29:46matslyes but I have no time now. something i can do l8ter
16:31:19 Nick dwihno is now known as dw|gone (
16:32:00matslBagder: i got to go now. did you want me to do something?
16:32:53Bagdermatsl: jsut those rom dumps for Stevie
16:33:52matslBagder: hmm... I know nothing about rom-dumps. drop me a mail and I can check it out l8ter.
16:34:11Bagdersee ya
16:34:14 Quit matsl ("Client Exiting")
16:37:39Quelsarukbtw Bagder who is Martin from the mailing list??
16:37:47Bagderno idea
16:37:55Bagdera weird swedish person
16:38:11Quelsarukhe's swedish
16:38:23Quelsarukthat *explains* everything
16:41:43*Stevie[FP] gets a mirror so he can watch his own head explode
16:48:32Quelsaruki still can't understand my hd
16:49:00QuelsarukBagder: is LinusN a HD guru?
16:49:12Bagdera lot more than me anyway
16:50:13Quelsaruki will ask him then
17:00:44Stevie[FP]I wonder what Z's doing
17:00:53BagderI think he's away
17:00:58Zagori'm here again, but unfortunately have to go again :-(
17:01:13Zagorjust fetched my sister and mom whos visiting today
17:01:45Zagori promise to fix roms for you asap if matsl doesn't do it first
17:02:11Stevie[FP](who's matsl?)
17:02:19#>>"seen" used by Zagor ( [snoop prevented]
17:02:31Zagorhe's got a player
17:02:40Stevie[FP]oh, great, don't *I* have the most excellent timing
17:03:23Stevie[FP]anybody know his email addr?
17:03:32Bagdermatsl at
17:03:57Stevie[FP]that reminds me
17:04:42Stevie[FP]it would seem reasonable if logbot were to produce html logs that masked email addresses
17:05:03Stevie[FP]some newbie was in here the other day and he posted his address in plain user@domain format
17:05:45Stevie[FP]or not even html
17:05:48Zagorwe could simpy sed the log when archiving it on the site
17:05:48Stevie[FP]just mask the @s
17:06:00Stevie[FP]sed -e s/@/_at_/g
17:06:05Stevie[FP]or something along those lines
17:06:27BagderZagor: the bookmark patch doesn't fit...
17:06:38BagderI hit the magic 200K now! :-/
17:06:54ZagorBagder: ok. time to fix sokoban then
17:07:10 Join jzoss_ [0] (
17:07:13*Stevie[FP] thinks of ridiculous things
17:07:19Stevie[FP]a two-stage boot!
17:07:35Stevie[FP]stage 1 is 50K and auto ROLOs another file
17:07:40Bagderyou're not the first one to suggest that
17:07:47Stevie[FP]was that person serious?
17:08:00Zagoryes... :)
17:08:25*Stevie[FP] grabs his LART
17:08:29Stevie[FP]lemme at 'him!
17:08:30Stevie[FP]lemme at 'him!
17:08:43Zagorgotta go, see you guys
17:08:44 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
17:08:46Stevie[FP]l8r Z
17:10:02*Stevie[FP] emails matsl
17:11:30Stevie[FP]I should have asked Z for the player roms yesterday when he was still here
17:11:34Stevie[FP]but nooooo
17:11:41Stevie[FP]I had to go and write the player LCD emulation first
17:11:48*Stevie[FP] whacks himself with his own LART
17:12:22Bagderyou thought anything about how to make your code run on linux too?
17:12:30 Quit |nso|dead (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
17:12:32Stevie[FP]one step at a time
17:12:42Bagderoh sure, I'm just curious
17:12:46Stevie[FP]plus, graphics are not the most portable thing on the planet. Especially dealing with X
17:13:28Stevie[FP]I'm assuming that X still has the primary drawback of not doing automatic color depth conversion?
17:13:30 Join mecraw [0] (~mecraw@
17:13:46Bagderis that really the primary drawback? ;-)
17:14:04Stevie[FP]well, i'm just looking at it from my perspective
17:14:10Stevie[FP]that display is created like this:
17:14:20Stevie[FP]a monochrome bitmap that's 132x64 is created
17:14:28Stevie[FP]I set each pixel individually from the LCD RAM buffer
17:14:56Bagdersounds similar to how the code works in the sim
17:15:04Stevie[FP]then I blit the bitmap onto the display (which is at 24bpp) onto the screen
17:15:28Bagderwell, that operation would be different in X
17:15:29Stevie[FP]I use stretchblt −− the one in the SS's is actually 528x256
17:15:42Stevie[FP]if I remember correctly, I read an article comparing GDI (windows) with X
17:15:52Stevie[FP]X doesn't seem to do automatic bitdepth conversion
17:16:16Bagderwell, we would just use two colours, ignoring the depth
17:16:39Stevie[FP]ah, see, with GDI you can do some fancy things
17:16:48Stevie[FP]like automatically creating a monochrome transparency mask
17:17:01Stevie[FP]by exploiting its conversion abilities
17:17:04Bagderthere are fancy libs for X too
17:17:53Bagdernever mind, I was only curious
17:17:56*Stevie[FP] shrugs
17:17:56Bagderwe'll come to that later
17:18:03Stevie[FP]I figure that eventually I'll be porting it to Linux
17:18:31Stevie[FP]I'm trying to limit the amount of Windows-specific crap
17:19:06Stevie[FP]As much as I hate to do it, I'm probably going to have to switch from C to C++
17:19:28Bagder"have to", why?
17:19:55Stevie[FP]because I intend to use an exception mechanism (try/catch etc) to implement traps and access violations
17:20:04Stevie[FP]illegal instructions, etc
17:20:22Stevie[FP]actually I won't need an exception for illegal instructions
17:20:28Stevie[FP]since nothing happens
17:20:36Stevie[FP]it's the memory access errors that are the problem
17:21:01Stevie[FP]cuz I have to stop things before we do any write-backs (like updating a register)
17:21:29Stevie[FP]and you know what REALLY pisses me off?
17:21:40Bagderheh, no?
17:21:44Stevie[FP]I'm stuck with a freaking x86 which has a whopping 4 general purpose registers
17:22:04Stevie[FP]you'd think that they would add some new ones
17:23:02 Join hardeep [0] (1098@
17:23:09Stevie[FP]the device I work on here has an ARM7 cpu
17:23:14Bagderhi hardeep
17:23:46Stevie[FP]calling any function that has at most 4 parameters requires NO stack space
17:23:57Stevie[FP]that means no memory access
17:24:51Stevie[FP]If we could do that on our desktops, imagine how much faster things would be
17:25:13Stevie[FP]we wouldn't need to hit the stack every time we referenced a parameter or local variable
17:25:27Stevie[FP]we could have more useful data loaded in the cache
17:29:06*Stevie[FP] revises the bitswap code
17:55:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:56:49Quelsaruki've found out where's the problem on the HD
17:57:04Bagderis that good or bad news?
17:57:10Quelsarukbad news
17:58:01Quelsaruki have to buy a new hd
17:58:11Quelsarukthat's for sure now
17:58:34Quelsarukbut still i don't understand why archos is able to spin up the hd and work with it
18:06:41 Quit Bagder ("")
18:21:30Stevie[FP]it would seem that we could make our code more efficient if our mp3 data buffer was 'backwards'
18:23:41Quelsaruki suppose Linus or Zagor would say... test that and show us some results ;)
18:31:47Stevie[FP]I wonder if GCC would be smart enough to take advantage of it
18:37:14Stevie[FP]it's smart enough in one circumstance
18:37:16Stevie[FP]but not the others
18:38:19Stevie[FP]oh wait
18:38:21Stevie[FP]it IS smart enough
18:41:18Stevie[FP]you know the construct '*ptr++'?
18:41:55 Quit hardeep ("[BX] PARTYTIME! 5 seconds to the millenium! 4...3...2...1...EOF From client")
18:42:13Stevie[FP]the CPU is optimized for reading via '*ptr++', but for writing it's optimized for '*−−ptr'
18:43:08Quelsaruki didn't know that
19:04:10 Join _aLF [0] (
19:27:51 Quit edx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:42:13*Stevie[FP] is away [(Auto-Away after 1hr)] [KS-MsgLog Off]
19:55:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:04:19 Join hardeep [0] (1098@
20:13:08Quelsarukhardeep: have you ever installed qt library on cygwin??
20:18:01hardeepQuelsaruk: i don't remember ever explicitly installing it... however, i believe it's installed when you install kde for cygwin which i have tried
20:19:22Quelsarukhave you tried?
20:19:27Quelsarukwith results?
20:30:24hardeepyeah, it works pretty well in fact
20:30:41Quelsaruki've found a kde-cygwin on sourceforge
20:30:41hardeepalthough, i still prefer the windows xp desktop for day-to-day work
20:30:48hardeepthat's the one
20:31:23Quelsarukhardeep, i love kvirc. But you need Qt to compile it.. and on windows.. it's not free ;)
20:32:26hardeepQuelsaruk: it looks like the Kde port includes a free Qt
20:34:44Quelsaruki've seen that
20:35:04Quelsaruki'm really bored today, so i'm installing a lot of things for cygwin
20:35:12Quelsarukuntil today, i just used it to compile rockbox
20:43:24 Quit Quelsaruk ("KVIrc 3.0.0-beta1 "Eve's Avatar"")
20:50:08 Join Quelsaruk [20] (
20:50:14Quelsarukhardeep: it works :)
21:04:18 Join edx [0] (
21:16:37*Stevie[FP] is back from [(Auto-Away after 1hr)] [gone 1hr 34mins 24secs] [KS]
21:16:51Stevie[FP]has anyone timed the bitswap routine for a 64KB block?
21:21:05Quelsaruki'm getting crazy with that f***ing qt lib
21:29:57 Quit Snorlax ()
21:47:22Quelsaruktime to go
21:48:30Stevie[FP]why didn't they use an ARM cpu
21:49:07Quelsaruk'cause is not a pocket pc??
21:49:14 Quit Quelsaruk ("KVIrc 3.0.0-beta1 "Eve's Avatar"")
21:55:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:02:26 Part jebmpls
22:04:23*Stevie[FP] yawns
22:05:32 Quit elinenbe (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23:04:32*Stevie[FP] is away [(Auto-Away after 1hr)] [KS-MsgLog Off]
23:12:52*Stevie[FP] is back from [(Auto-Away after 1hr)] [gone 8mins 20secs] [KS]
23:12:53*Stevie[FP] is away [gawn] [KS-MsgLog Off]
23:21:04 Join wonderbread [0] (
23:21:05 Quit wonderbread (Remote closed the connection)
23:25:37 Join wonderbread [0] (
23:27:01wonderbreadI was wondering...
23:27:29wonderbreadif anybody could answer some questions about endianness trying to hack rockbox
23:37:53jzoss_ask away...I'll try and hlep
23:50:14 Join satino [0] (
23:52:59 Join BoD[] [0] (
23:55:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:56:36 Join |nso|dead [0] (
23:58:37 Quit _aLF ("bye")

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