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#rockbox log for 2003-07-14

00:02:41Zagorwell that part doesn't take any time. the delay is waiting for BSY, which previously didn't use the correct address
00:03:13Zagorbut i agree we should investigate more and see if there is a workaround
00:03:20[IDC]DragonIt must have taken some time, because you saw the Rockbox logo.
00:04:03Zagoragreed. i wonder what really was happening.
00:05:06Zagorbtw, i'll check in 8MB plugin support in a few minutes. no PIC yet, maybe later if we figure out how to fix it.
00:05:30[IDC]DragonOh, that's great!
00:05:57[IDC]Dragonon the other end, it starts a compatibility problem.
00:06:08Zagoryes, it means another API version bump
00:06:39[IDC]DragonHow about running the plugins at a lower, common address, carving a hole into Rockbox?
00:07:29Zagorit's quite difficult. the linker can't handle working around a carved-out hole, so we'd have to manually try to piece it together.
00:07:40[IDC]Dragonversion bump? You want to have two groups of versins for that?
00:08:20Zagorno, i'm just checking the memory size in plugin_test()
00:08:30[IDC]DragonAh, good.
00:09:18[IDC]DragonAbout the hole: how about after the exception vectors? Then the Rockbox code doesn't need to flow around a hole.
00:09:38[IDC]Dragon(but I need to change my bootloader)
00:10:32Zagoryeah, that could work. i'll need to think about it some more.
00:10:57Zagori'll commit this fix first. we can change it later if we want to.
00:11:14[IDC]DragonAnother OK.
00:11:46[IDC]DragonThis afternoon I made a flash firmware set for the FM.
00:12:02Zagordo you have an fm to test with now?
00:12:12[IDC]DragonNeed to try it tomorrow, hope to get hold of such a box.
00:12:32[IDC]DragonA co-worker has one.
00:13:35[IDC]DragonThe Archos FM firmware is quite a bit larger, leaves less room for us.
00:14:08[IDC]Dragon12 KB in fact, it just went into a new flash sector by a few bytes.
00:14:20[IDC]DragonBut we still have plenty.
00:14:53*Stevie-O yawns
00:14:55Stevie-Ogood morning
00:15:15[IDC]DragonOh yes, it's past midnight.
00:15:24Stevie-Oit's only 6pm here
00:15:27Stevie-Oand since I just got up
00:15:33Stevie-Oit's still morning
00:15:42Stevie-Ohow goes it?
00:15:51[IDC]DragonAnd you call us old Europe, we're alwas ahead.
00:16:28Stevie-Oyeah, you're like 6 hours in the future
00:16:33Zagori'm doing a few last cleanups before i go on vacation tomorrow
00:16:40Stevie-Oso tell me, what's the future like?
00:16:44Stevie-Odo we have flying cars yet?
00:16:58[IDC]DragonOh, that's tomorrow? I understood the week after.
00:17:06Stevie-Owtf are those damn dorky scientists waiting for
00:17:43Zagoryeah, it's tomorrow. i probably expressed myself poorly.
00:18:06Stevie-Ooh man
00:18:07[IDC]DragonAnd you got the nerve to still be Rockboxing?
00:18:34[IDC]DragonMy girlfriend would be upset.
00:18:39Stevie-Oi was supposed to write the x86 emulator to run office XP on Rockbox today
00:19:01[IDC]Dragonstill not done?
00:19:04Stevie-OI need to write a defragmenter for Rockbox
00:19:26[IDC]DragonThat would be slow, I guess.
00:19:45Stevie-Oonly if you think I mean the same thing as what Windoze Defragmenter does
00:20:24Stevie-OWhen I first got my FM, I just dumped all my mp3s in it as they were
00:20:43Stevie-Oso i had about 5 directories and 1100 mp3s in the root
00:21:01Stevie-O(it was a short time before I noticed it was cutting off the end of the list...)
00:21:30Stevie-Owhen I got Rockbox, I was forced to put everything into directories b/c of the 400 limit
00:21:47Stevie-Oso I made dirs [A-H] [I-P] [Q-Z]
00:22:19Stevie-Oand moved the mp3s into the right dirs
00:23:04Stevie-Owell while testing some new code (which still doesn't work) to speed up open()s
00:23:25Stevie-OI discovered that my root dir is like this:
00:24:21Stevie-O<dir> <dir> <dir> <dir> <over 1000 'free'/deleted entries> <dir> <dir> <dir> ...
00:24:45Stevie-Owell over 1000
00:25:06Zagorah, how silly :)
00:25:11Stevie-Osince it's probably about 4 entries per file, it's probably over 4000
00:25:19Stevie-Onow think about this
00:25:27Stevie-Oat 32 bytes per entry
00:25:33Stevie-Othat's 128000 bytes
00:25:49Stevie-Oat 512 bytes per sector, that's 250 sectors Rockbox has to read through
00:25:57Stevie-Owhich have NO USEFUL DATA
00:26:10Stevie-Oi also found an error in the shortname generation code
00:26:13[IDC]DragonHow about backing up the whole to a PC, erazing the box, putting it back?
00:26:34Stevie-O[IDC]Dragon: yuck
00:27:04Stevie-Oplus, files that I created *after* the deletions still aren't covering the beginning
00:27:21Zagoreven rockbox-created files?
00:27:32Stevie-Oless sure about those
00:27:37Stevie-Orockbox doesn't create much in the root dir
00:27:44Stevie-Oonly those internal files
00:27:48Stevie-Ofrom the ROM dump
00:27:52Zagorat least i wrote it to use first-fit
00:27:58Stevie-OI think those *are* at the beginning
00:28:28Stevie-OAlso, this giant root dir *is* fragmented
00:28:34Stevie-Oits clusters are all over the disk
00:29:06Stevie-Oso apparently it doesn't defragment the root
00:29:06Zagoryeah, i can imagine
00:29:22Stevie-OI wonder if it does subdirs
00:29:31Stevie-Ooh, a question about debug builds
00:29:42Stevie-Oi've not actually built one, since I have no serial mod
00:29:53Stevie-Obut i think it generates an .elf?
00:30:32Zagoryes, for use with gdb
00:31:05Stevie-Owhat's the debug format used to store the debug info?
00:31:32Zagorumm, not sure. it's part of the elf file.
00:31:45Stevie-Oi think it's DWARF
00:32:37*Stevie-O needs to find a dll to read DWARF
00:38:58Stevie-Ois there a homepage for elfutils or what?
00:39:19Zagorno idea
00:39:29Zagorbinutils maybe?
00:40:07Zagorobjcopy should contain code to read all sorts of elf sections
00:41:54Stevie-Oah, libbfd
00:42:47Stevie-Oman, I got so much stuff I need to write
00:43:10Zagorthe hacker's dilemma :)
00:44:21Stevie-O(1) i need to finish jbrserbus, a driver to spawn virtual serial ports
00:45:01Stevie-O(2) hmm. I need food, too.
00:45:15Stevie-O6:44pm, kentucky fried taco hut should still be open
00:45:24 Nick Stevie-O is now known as Stevie-fOod (
00:51:21[IDC]DragonI'm off for bed.
00:51:33Zagoryeah, me too. long day tomorrow.
00:51:34[IDC]DragonZagor, have a nice vacation!
00:51:50 Quit [IDC]Dragon ("Leaving")
01:06:08 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
01:26:01 Nick Stevie-fOod is now known as Stevie-O (
01:40:17 Join tracktheripper1 [0] (
01:40:20 Quit tracktheripper1 (Client Quit)
01:40:45 Join tracktheripper [0] (
01:40:50tracktheripperat last
01:40:55tracktheripperthe server died earlier on :(
01:41:42tracktheripperhello stevie-O
01:41:47tracktheripperwhats up?
01:42:59Stevie-Onot much
01:43:40tracktheripperI read on Amazon that someone described the Ipod as looking like a "Lady's electric razor"
01:45:02tracktheripperMeanwhile, the Archos was described by the same person as looking like a "James Bond detonator"
01:58:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:02:13 Join midknight2k3 [0] (
02:02:24midknight2k3hello all
02:08:36tracktheripperhey midknight!
02:08:41tracktheripperI have something for you
02:08:53Stevie-Ohey, so do I
02:08:59Stevie-Ohmm, where's my bat...
02:09:49midknight2k3can you hear me stevie-o?
02:09:59midknight2k3or am i still blocked
02:10:47tracktheripperi can hear you midknighty
02:10:54midknight2k3not stevie
02:10:56midknight2k3he block me
02:10:57tracktheripperdid u get that link in the PM?
02:11:11tracktheripperah well never ,omd
02:11:17midknight2k3i got it
02:11:41tracktheripperwhat do u think?
02:14:03 Join BoD[] [0] (
02:14:11midknight2k3it is BOD
02:14:19BoD[]YES :)
02:14:29midknight2k3BOD has not been here for long time
02:14:38tracktheripperhi BoD
02:14:38BoD[]well a few days :)
02:15:03BoD[]so ... THE question : is the flash thing is "stable" ?
02:15:20BoD[]did you try it ;)
02:15:27midknight2k3us fm recorder users dont get it till later :/
02:15:40BoD[]i'm a recorder20 man
02:15:46midknight2k3you can have it now
02:15:49midknight2k3but i must wait
02:16:16BoD[]last time i went here it worked but the guys adviced me to wait a bit
02:16:36midknight2k3yeah i dunno yet
02:16:41midknight2k3id give it another week to be sure
02:17:17BoD[]it's too bad the digest is idle
02:17:28BoD[]since i don't read the mailing list, it was my source
02:18:08midknight2k3just go to
02:18:17midknight2k3you dont need to use that just go there
02:18:24BoD[]yeah i know but i mean
02:18:36BoD[]the digest thing is handy
02:19:15BoD[]but i think it's just that the maintainer is in holliday
02:20:20midknight2k3"in holliday"?
02:21:03BoD[]hollidays ?
02:21:17BoD[]what's wrong
02:21:46midknight2k3it's jet!
02:22:58tracktheripperhey all
02:27:37midknight2k3im in trouble
02:30:46midknight2k3my bogus feature request
02:30:54BoD[]again!? :)
02:31:02midknight2k3track always does it!!
02:31:07midknight2k3i did one and it's the worst
02:31:08BoD[]oh right
02:31:10midknight2k3im dead
02:32:57midknight2k3here's my old one
02:33:01midknight2k3it seems popular
02:33:03midknight2k33 comments!
02:33:09midknight2k3hang on
02:34:33midknight2k3here we are...
02:34:37midknight2k3my latest innovation
02:35:18midknight2k3and good bye!
02:35:21 Quit midknight2k3 ("Leaving")
02:40:19 Join keithhub [0] (
02:40:20 Quit tracktheripper (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:41:42Jet8810hey guys
02:44:18Stevie-Onot much
02:55:00Jet88102200 mah battery
02:57:47Stevie-Othat's the fm
03:09:46Jet8810is recording from the radio illegal?
03:15:26Stevie-Oif it was then they wouldn't have that feature
03:16:20Jet8810nice argument :)
03:16:24Jet8810now, is it IMMORAL? :)
03:17:50ricIIhmm do you care?
03:17:58Stevie-Othey play the stuff for free anyway
03:18:59Jet8810ric, Stevie, I really strive to maintain honesty in all this music online stuff
03:19:53ricIIwhat about software,, when is a idea your''s ?
03:23:07ricIIthere is a difference between copyright & authorship..
03:27:38PsycoXulbuying CD's is immoral
03:27:53PsycoXulin doing so you're supporting a corrupt industry that screws both the artists and the consumers
03:27:53BoD[]i agree
03:29:03PsycoXulif you really want 100% moral music, i suppose you should either play it yourself, or go support a live band
03:29:31BoD[]you could happen to play something that is copyrighted
03:29:37BoD[]so it could be illegal
03:31:42ricIIor implemeny a (c) algorithim
03:33:26ricIIor even worse reinvent the wheel
03:33:26Jet8810I buy CDs
03:33:27Jet8810an dpay fo rmusic
03:33:31Jet8810that gives me enough piece of mind
03:33:47Jet8810you can come up with justifications for it all, but I dont care WHO you steal from, its stealing
03:34:43ricIIwhat about using rockbox ?
03:36:18ricIIyou dismissed, but morally ?
03:36:56Jet8810rockbox is OFFERED for free
03:37:00Jet8810as an extreme method of gratitude
03:37:09Jet8810although I will make a donation once I Get some paypal funds in
03:37:21Jet8810if somebody offers it for free, its fine
03:39:45BoD[]i don't believe something "intellectual" can be the property of somebody
03:39:56BoD[]like, a song, a software, ...
03:40:11ricIIso how is music differnt?
03:41:39BoD[]it's not ;)
03:41:44ricIIbut I better talk about this when I'm sober..
03:47:01 Quit Stevie[FreedomPa (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
03:47:07Stevie-Oa song is not IP
03:47:13Stevie-Oand neither is software
03:47:25Stevie-Oideas are IP, and I have trouble with the concept of them being property
03:48:02BoD[]how is a song not IP ?
03:48:06ricIIdefine IP
03:48:44Stevie-Oa song
03:48:46Stevie-Oand software
03:48:48Stevie-Owas produced
03:49:01Stevie-Oit took time and effort
03:49:06Stevie-Omeasurable time and effort
03:49:34ricIIand how is this differnt from for e.g. my playlist code?
03:49:44Stevie-Owhat did I just say?
03:49:50Stevie-O<Stevie-O> and software
03:50:37BoD[]most song belong to somebody
03:50:53Stevie-Odidn't I just say that?
03:50:54ricIIhardeep did all hard work in (re) implementing it, where is the bord er ?
03:50:56BoD[]a song is an "intellectual" thing (as opposed to material thing)
03:51:01BoD[]a song is IP
03:51:10Stevie-Oa song is not intellectual
03:51:17BoD[]is it material ? :)
03:51:31Stevie-Oit is not tangible
03:51:37Stevie-Othat doesn't mean it's intellectual
03:52:00BoD[]ok then it's "not tangible"P
03:52:04Stevie-Owhile intellectual things are intangible
03:52:11Stevie-Onot all intangible things are IP
03:52:43BoD[]ok maybe ... but what i was trying to say is that I don't accept the fact that something intanglible can be the property of somebody
03:52:54BoD[]for me, it belongs to nobody, or to everybody
03:52:55ricIIintangible, my english is comming short...
03:53:06Stevie-OricII: tangible == touchable
03:53:51ricIIagian where is the border...\
03:53:59Stevie-Owhere is what border?
03:54:39ricIIbetween intellectual & tangible
03:54:57Stevie-Ointellectual does not border on tangible
03:55:39Stevie-OBoD[]: then you've never created something intangible
03:56:02Stevie-OI get paid to write software.
03:56:10Stevie-OIf the software was not property of my employer
03:56:11BoD[]me too
03:56:13Stevie-Othey wouldn't get paid
03:56:18BoD[]it's sad
03:56:20Stevie-Oand I wouldn't have a job
03:56:23BoD[]it's not a perfect world ;)
03:56:34BoD[]but THAT doesn't mean it's RIGHT
03:56:42Stevie-Owhat are you talking about?
03:56:47Stevie-OI created that software
03:56:56Stevie-O*I* created it
03:57:01BoD[]are you sure
03:57:05Stevie-Oand you're saying I don't get to say how it gets used?
03:57:10BoD[]don't you use libraries
03:57:12Stevie-Ounless I have an evil twin
03:57:18BoD[]are you not just assembling things
03:57:22BoD[]that already exist ?
03:57:35Stevie-Odo you own a car?
03:57:39BoD[]what is true creation
03:58:00BoD[]i think that "all works are derivative" ;)
03:58:30BoD[]i dont own a car
03:58:34ricIII do,,
03:58:37BoD[]but i should ;)
03:58:41***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:58:41Stevie-Omore of that software was created by me, than what of my car was created by Honda
03:59:03ricIIwell my gf does, I got it insured etc.
03:59:04Stevie-Odoes that mean my car should have been free?
03:59:09BoD[]i dont think so
03:59:13BoD[]your car is material
03:59:27Stevie-Oit is an assembly of things that already existed
03:59:50BoD[]well yes
03:59:58BoD[]they transformed things
04:00:16Stevie-Odid it not cost them money to produce?
04:00:26BoD[]yes it did
04:00:38BoD[]you can copy something intangible
04:00:41BoD[]for no cost
04:00:47BoD[]you can't do that with cars
04:00:47Stevie-Othere's always a cost
04:00:57BoD[]ok an infinitesimal one
04:00:57Stevie-Oit's just far less for computer software
04:01:07Stevie-Onot infinitesimal
04:01:15Stevie-Obut not infinitesimal
04:01:18BoD[]that's the same
04:01:36Stevie-Ono, infinitesimal is immeasurable, negligible is so small that it doesn't matter
04:01:48BoD[]ok so that's the same for this conversation ;)
04:01:54Stevie-Odo you get paid?
04:01:59ricIIso the car bisness is not the same as software..
04:02:05Stevie-Owould you rather your employer not pay you for the software you write?
04:02:14BoD[]well "currently" i'm not employed
04:02:19BoD[]but that doesn't matter
04:02:33ricIIwell I get paid for knownledge..
04:02:37Stevie-Ogood, then you are presently the subject of your preferred economic model
04:02:45BoD[]i get paid for time
04:02:51BoD[]i give my time to code stuffs
04:03:03BoD[]but the code itself i would prefere it was free
04:03:11BoD[]it's not, i can live with it
04:03:19Stevie-Oyou get paid for your code
04:03:26Stevie-Oif you did not write code, you would not get paid
04:03:44BoD[]it's a service i give
04:04:09ricIInot true here,,,\
04:04:09BoD[]it has nothing to do with the fact that this code then "belongs" to the company, and they can sell it
04:04:10Stevie-Othe service of writing code
04:04:59Stevie-Oif they couldn't sell it
04:05:03Stevie-Othey would not pay you for it
04:05:07ricIIbut still there is authorship...
04:05:15BoD[]well as I said
04:05:26BoD[]i understand the "goal" of this
04:05:51BoD[]it's easy for people to be paid for the stuff they produce
04:06:05BoD[]but that doesn't mean it's right
04:06:24ricIII had to write code for ibm which I didn't want to put my name under it...
04:06:25Stevie-O<Sui88> 67% of girls are stupid
04:06:25Stevie-O<V-girl> i belong with the other 13%
04:06:27BoD[]in a perfect world, people could be paid for producing things, and these things would still be free
04:06:52*Stevie-O sends BoD[] to an economics class
04:07:23BoD[]i say : something that requires no money for being copied should be free
04:07:26ricIIin a perfect world, you wouldn't need to get paid..
04:08:17BoD[]very true
04:08:45BoD[]in star trek there is no money I think
04:09:10BoD[]i think the authors were a bit too optimistic about the future ;)
04:09:10Stevie-Ostar trek is a fucking tv show
04:09:17 Join midknight2k3 [0] (
04:09:19BoD[]stevie-o : no??? really ?
04:09:22Stevie-Oi'll note that in star trek
04:09:42Stevie-Othey ALSO had the ability to copy your 'material things' for negligible cost
04:10:05BoD[]thus no need for money ;)
04:10:12ricIIprob. is howto transform our world to a more perfect.l.
04:10:13BoD[]that makes sense
04:11:01midknight2k3i see i am not wanted jere
04:11:17ricIImidknight2k3: why?
04:11:32midknight2k3nobody replies to my hello
04:11:51midknight2k3: |)
04:12:20BoD[]ricII : when i'm president of the world, my first move would be to cancel all the ip laws ;) it will not be legal to "own" something not material
04:12:53ricIIopensource is on it's way..
04:13:56BoD[]anyway see you all
04:13:58BoD[]i have to sleep
04:13:59ricIIit's like a nature power, evolution ...idea's want ro be free
04:14:27midknight2k3good night bog
04:14:27BoD[]everybody wants to be free
04:14:40BoD[]good night all :)
04:14:42ricIIthey only live in our minds, nigth bod
04:14:57 Quit BoD[] ("al lala")
04:17:12ricIII have to dirve the car trough the carbon test tomorrow..
04:17:45ricIIso good night as well..
04:18:59midknight2k3good night
04:21:42midknight2k3oh and
04:21:51midknight2k3have fin "dirve"ing tomorrow
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15:48:11*Stevie[FreedomPa is back from [gone] [gone 2days 17hrs 15mins 16secs] [KS]
15:48:15 Nick Stevie[FreedomPa is now known as STevie[FP] (~whatsit2u@
15:55:15*STevie[FP] yawns
15:55:19 Nick STevie[FP] is now known as Stevie[FP] (~whatsit2u@
15:55:23dwihnoGoddamn holy shit! Rockbox boots SO GODDAMN FAST when run from ROM!
15:57:01Heshm, think I should try that out too. Sounds excellent.
15:57:21Hes(although flash isn't really ROM 8-)
15:57:35dwihnoshit same, different thing :)
15:58:28Stevie[FP]it's EEPROM
15:58:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:59:55dwihnoWell, then I WAS right :)
16:00:07dwihnoA ROM that makes EEP sounds.,
16:05:55HesEPROMs, or their programmers, did make an EEP-like sound while programming 8-)
16:07:02Hesat least last time I did that (years ago with some amateur radio modems/controllers & the first stage ROM monitor loader of my Alpha)
16:12:50*Stevie[FP] slowly codes
16:12:59Stevie[FP]anybody wanna help me write a windoze device driver?
16:19:52 Join edx [0] (
16:40:50 Nick dwihno is now known as dw|gone (
16:50:39 Join machtenx [0] (
16:51:28machtenxhey guys
16:56:49machtenxeveryone sleeping?
16:57:51Stevie[FP]no, coding
16:59:38machtenxI'm trying to decide which jukebox to buy
16:59:54Stevie[FP]the one from happy days
17:00:20Stevie[FP]all you gotta do is hit it in the right spot
17:00:24Stevie[FP]and it plays for free
17:02:00machtenx120 bucks for batteries is my issue
17:02:14machtenxLion vs rechargeable AA's
17:02:55Stevie[FP]lithium ion batteries are harder to kill
17:02:57machtenx or both good deals i think
17:03:18Stevie[FP]they don't need a charge-discharge cycle like nicd and nimh do
17:03:50machtenxbut I'm trying to justify buying the higher model
17:03:57machtenxbeyond batteries
17:04:06Stevie[FP]the liion in the FM is 2200maH
17:04:10Stevie[FP]err mAH
17:04:28machtenxso more sound quality?
17:05:19Stevie[FP]more battery time
17:05:57machtenxhave you or do you know anyone that's used the camera module?
17:06:24Stevie[FP]camera module?
17:07:14machtenxyeah, they sell it as part of a package in one i'm considering
17:07:16Stevie[FP]that's the multimedia
17:07:24Stevie[FP]that's a video player, not an mp3 player
17:07:31Stevie[FP]Rockbox doesn't run on the multimedia
17:07:51machtenxwhats the best one to get to run with rockbox?
17:08:00machtenxan FM?
17:08:16Stevie[FP]well 'best' is in the eye of the beholder
17:08:34Stevie[FP]the FM has no digital in/out
17:08:41machtenxwill it run with Mini Jukebox Recorder 15 ?
17:08:55Stevie[FP]I'm thinking it should
17:11:00machtenxit's only 160 bucks at fries
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18:01:19*Stevie[FP] is away [f00d] [KS-MsgLog Off]
18:11:16 Join Shrike| [0] (
18:12:12Shrike|hi there, i'm considering buying either an Archos Studio 20 or an iPod, but i'm leaning toward iPod because of all the hacking style stuff going on, but rockbox is kinda swaying me to archos...that and the price
18:13:13Shrike|so whats the whole rockbox setup like? A lot better than an iPod?
18:13:24 Join Kuji_ [0] (
18:13:46Kuji_wheres the image to flash with
18:13:49 Nick Kuji_ is now known as kuji (
18:49:46Lynx0I don't know IPod
18:50:52Lynx0Shrike|: Have you seen the screenshots on the rockbox site?
18:51:08Shrike|ok, i'm just reading all the rockbox documentation, it seems that there are lots of differences between recorder and studio ones
18:51:28Shrike|yes Lynx0 just been looking at them, it looks a lot more functional
18:51:37Lynx0Shrike|: The recorder is better, expecially because of the screen
18:51:53Shrike|yeh, but 100 more expensive
18:52:05Lynx0Yes...but you can record ;-)
18:52:14Lynx0And how much is the iPod?
18:52:59Shrike|ummmmm a 30gb one is 400 :)
18:53:37kujiyou know where a current flash firmware for recorder 20 is ?
18:55:13Shrike|What other features does rockbox give the recorders except for fonts?
18:57:52Lynx0Umm, games, plugins, configurable 'while playing screen', and more...
18:58:49Lynx0kuji: I think it's here:
18:58:56kujicheers on it
18:59:00 Part kuji
18:59:20Shrike|I thought you got all the games, plugins and WPS on all the models the rockbox supports?
19:00:35Lynx0sorry, I thought you meant rockbox vs. archos firmware. I'm not sure if the games work on the studios also.
19:01:32Shrike|hmm it says in PDF manual that games are only for the recorder
19:02:38Shrike|so which of the recorders would you recommend?
19:04:10Shrike|hmm, the recorder 20 is only 50 more expensive
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19:28:03*Stevie[FP] is back from [f00d] [gone 1hr 26mins 45secs] [KS]
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20:00:50 Join midknight2k3 [0] (
20:04:32Shrike|what other hacks is there for the archos hard disk mp3 player series other than rock box?
20:04:50midknight2k3rockbox rocks and it's the only one so it rocks more
20:05:07midknight2k3and it's the only firmware hack for ANY mp3 player so it rocks rocks rocks
20:06:11Shrike|i see you are a fan ;)
20:06:23midknight2k3yes I am :D
20:06:31midknight2k3a very pleased one
20:06:45midknight2k3i wish Zagor was here
20:06:56midknight2k3I could tell him that i am very happy with rockbox
20:07:47Shrike|hmmm its a choice of either 250 archos recorder 20 or 300 for a 15gb iPod
20:08:03midknight2k3dont you dare
20:08:17midknight2k3archos it is! :)
20:09:00Lynx0Well, rockbox is really good, but the archos itself may not have the built quality of an iPod.
20:09:13Lynx0I mean the hardware...
20:09:23Shrike|its a big more bulkier
20:09:29midknight2k3ever so slightl
20:09:32Shrike|but i don't mind the chunky look
20:09:39midknight2k3try th fm recorder
20:09:50midknight2k3it is smaller and lighter, and looks better
20:09:53Stevie[FP]the archos itself has the build quality of a Yugo
20:10:02midknight2k3what is a yugo
20:11:03tpelliottI'm glad I have the older recorder. I like being able to change batteries.
20:11:37midknight2k3I'm glad I have the FM recorder. I like having a longer lasting battery that is replaceable when the time comes and archos releases them.
20:12:04 Join probonic [0] (
20:13:09midknight2k3hey there
20:15:31 Quit tpelliott ("Trillian (")
20:15:31Shrike|i was planning on getting this one
20:15:34Shrike|good or bad?
20:15:42midknight2k3i will tell you
20:17:18midknight2k3you live in australia?
20:18:20Shrike|good ol england
20:18:25midknight2k3hang on then
20:18:46midknight2k3where would you get it?
20:18:49midknight2k3archos online?
20:18:55midknight2k3it's best to get it at a store
20:19:16midknight2k3do you have a best buy therE?
20:19:56midknight2k3well whereever i guess
20:20:04midknight2k3an extended warranty is also good to have
20:20:40Shrike|well if i buy it off the website, it should come quickly
20:20:52midknight2k3yeah if you want go ahead
20:21:07midknight2k3but that's shopping in australia
20:21:24Shrike|Archos is UK based isn't it?
20:21:31midknight2k3no idea
20:21:37midknight2k3i know all about rockbox though
20:21:42midknight2k3ask me anything :)
20:22:02probonicI know Archos is a French company
20:22:14probonicprob. got a couple of HQ's
20:22:35Shrike|ok, what features are recorder only in it midknight2k3?
20:23:04midknight2k3games, demos, big wps, custom font...
20:23:14midknight2k3fm recorder can do it too
20:23:21midknight2k38 line display
20:23:28midknight2k3peak meter
20:23:31midknight2k3a lot of stuff
20:23:51midknight2k3did you read this yet?
20:24:03midknight2k3auto volum control.
20:24:07midknight2k3plugin loader
20:24:15midknight2k3everything rockbox has can be done with recorder
20:25:27Lynx0Did anyone here ever have the bug where rockbox thinks the disk is full, even though it isn't?
20:25:33midknight2k3not i
20:26:13Lynx0I wonder if reformatting the drive would make it go away...
20:27:47midknight2k3thank god!
20:27:56midknight2k3i thought i'd be dead
20:27:59midknight2k3this request i sent
20:28:14midknight2k3i thought zagor would kill me for it
20:28:23midknight2k3but he doesn't seem to think it was a joke :D
20:29:16Lynx0Was it a joke or not?
20:29:23midknight2k3duhm, yes :)
20:29:28midknight2k3bluetooth router?
20:29:36midknight2k3mobile phone?
20:30:27Lynx0I have a bluetooth router with usb support
20:30:51midknight2k3try it then
20:31:00Lynx0nah, just kidding.
20:31:00midknight2k3it's of course impossible
20:31:48Lynx0Well, my DNA is done, I'll go eat now...
20:32:02 Quit Lynx0 ("So long, thanks for all the fish!")
20:32:20midknight2k3is shrike paying for it now?
20:33:00Shrike|no :)
20:33:07Shrike|I've got no money atm
20:33:18midknight2k3but you will buy one soon enough
20:33:58 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (
20:34:24Shrike|lol no
20:34:29Shrike|not till next month
20:34:42Shrike|Need to sell my minidisk as well
20:34:45midknight2k3bos oon enuff
20:34:54midknight2k3rombox is ok?
20:35:07[IDC]DragonYes, now on FM, too.
20:35:18midknight2k3is it safe n stable?
20:35:27[IDC]Dragonfor which box?
20:36:00[IDC]DragonI guess, but will try a bit more. I flashed it 5 minutes ago for the first time.
20:36:17midknight2k3so how does this work can you tell me?
20:36:48[IDC]DragonThe most important thing is that the permanent copy, the original Archos software, is reliably coming up with F1.
20:36:58[IDC]DragonAnything else we can fix later.
20:37:07midknight2k3so how does it work?????? lol
20:37:34midknight2k3i didnt see it no where
20:37:43midknight2k3but i will read it gladly :D
20:38:19[IDC]DragonTo be updated for FM soon.
20:38:26midknight2k3neat thanks
20:38:41midknight2k3by the way shrike he is putting rockbox in the player's ROM so it loads faster
20:39:29Shrike|i thought there was only 2mb of rom?
20:39:40midknight2k3that's ram\
20:39:43midknight2k3for buffering
20:39:50midknight2k3rom holds the standard firmware
20:40:06midknight2k3and rockbox (200kb) will replace the archos firmware (30kb or so lol)
20:40:25midknight2k3they rewrite it so it loads in 3 socinds instead of 10-15 seconds
20:41:51midknight2k3it's a breakthrough
20:42:03midknight2k3like the plugin loader :)
20:42:49[IDC]DragonGotta go, the weather is too nice here.
20:43:01midknight2k3thanks for your rombox
20:43:05midknight2k3good job
20:43:08midknight2k3happy sun
20:43:11[IDC]DragonI will compose a release later in the evening.
20:43:15Shrike|heh, before today i was like, "iPod or Archos, iPod or Archos"
20:43:28 Quit [IDC]Dragon ()
20:43:30midknight2k3now you're like what?
20:43:34Shrike|then i saw the rockbox thing and was like "hmmmm"
20:43:49Shrike|i'm like "Archos could be better long term, cheaper too :D"
20:44:06midknight2k3it is better long term
20:44:11midknight2k3with all those options
20:44:17midknight2k3read my review if you like for info
20:44:57midknight2k3ignore the update
20:45:22midknight2k3actually i will re update
20:45:33midknight2k3i shouldn't have said that looking back on it
20:46:42midknight2k3i fixed it
20:51:52 Join edx [0] (
20:53:20Shrike|good review
20:53:44midknight2k333 people said very helpful :)
20:53:49midknight2k3i u[dated the u[date
20:55:59Shrike|ok i'm off to find this fabled FM Recorder 20
20:56:10midknight2k3read my review!
20:56:20Shrike|i have :P
20:56:27midknight2k3on fm recorder
20:56:30midknight2k3if you care :D
20:56:38Shrike|oh on FM one
20:59:22Shrike|right now i need to find the fm recorder for sale in britain
20:59:31midknight2k3i doubt it lol
20:59:44midknight2k3its possible thougha ctually
21:00:35midknight2k3am i the only one who hates archos' new slogan?
21:00:46midknight2k3"Cinema to go... with you wherever you go!"
21:04:00midknight2k3just terrible
21:04:44Shrike| <-that it?
21:05:16midknight2k3session has expired
21:06:40midknight2k3the top one
21:06:42midknight2k3is fm recorder
21:07:51Shrike|yeh thats what i was linking too :
21:23:31midknight2k3me botred
21:25:04Shrike|buy me that then
21:25:22midknight2k3never mind i found something to do :)
21:25:56Shrike|dang :)
21:34:28midknight2k3me is bored once more
21:34:56midknight2k3any questions on rockbox
21:35:41Shrike|yeh go on then
21:36:01midknight2k3im not bored
21:36:15midknight2k3im just randomly asking if you have any questions on rockbox or rombox
21:36:16Shrike|will it ever have the contacts function implemented, thats one thing like the one on the iPod?
21:36:31midknight2k3the priority on that is i believe 7
21:36:37midknight2k3it's coming soon hopefully
21:36:40midknight2k3perhaps as a plugin
21:36:54midknight2k3there's already a patch for it but soon maybe it will come with a plugin
21:37:39midknight2k3the patches need to be compiled however
21:37:45Shrike|what other functions will be in the next release? as a guess ;)
21:37:57midknight2k3well there's daily builds
21:38:13midknight2k3so there are a few bug fixes and features once a day/week/month/whenever
21:38:24midknight2k3added to every day
21:38:43midknight2k3most people use them but some stick with the final versions in hopes of having a more stable rockbox
21:38:59Shrike|its updated daily? wow, they doing this professionally?
21:39:03midknight2k3it's not true, and daily builds are the latest in features and bug fixes
21:39:21midknight2k3i don't know what you mean by professionally :)
21:40:13Shrike|well as a job
21:40:21Shrike|or is it just a sideline project
21:40:45midknight2k3just a project
21:41:10Shrike|they must spend a lot of time working on it
21:41:19midknight2k3a bit, yeah
21:43:22midknight2k3under SOURCE TARBALLS it lists the changes for that day
21:43:35midknight2k3there were like 90 when the plugin loader came into play :)
21:43:58Shrike|lol :D
21:52:38midknight2k3ANY MORE QUESTIONS>
21:52:42midknight2k3I CAN ANSWER ANY ONE
21:52:46midknight2k3(about rockbox)
21:52:58Shrike|yeh, what does it sound like/
21:53:05Shrike|crisp and clear? good and good?
21:53:25midknight2k3depends on sound settings
21:53:28midknight2k3there are many
21:53:32midknight2k3and they're very adjustable
21:53:42Shrike|ok on the best sound settings
21:53:49midknight2k3VERY VERY GOOD
21:53:55Shrike|with mp3s encoded at 128kb/s
21:54:06midknight2k3that's what i used to use
21:54:08midknight2k3very nice
21:54:34midknight2k3ajustable is: bass, treble, channels, auto volume decay time, bass boost, loudness
21:54:43midknight2k3there's a karaoke mode too :D
21:54:55midknight2k3and stereo wide, stereo, stereo narrow
21:55:35midknight2k3wide makes it seem like it's far away and very expanded, and narrow makes it flat, close and compressed
21:55:39midknight2k3both have good uses
21:56:09Shrike|nice :)
21:56:25Shrike|this is sounding more and more like an essential purchase
21:56:54midknight2k3backlight works well but doesn't take up barely any power - i leave the backlight on 24, 7
21:57:08midknight2k3helps a lot
21:57:38midknight2k3with the plugin loader you can play about 10 games and 4 demos (demos are like screen savers)
21:57:47midknight2k3games are very fun
21:58:19midknight2k3Tetris, Snake, Wormlet, Sokoban, Star, Othello, FlipIt!, Sliding Puzzle
21:59:02midknight2k3did you see the screenshots?
21:59:05***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:59:18Shrike|only of tetris wormlet and sokoban
21:59:36midknight2k3but all of them
22:03:55Shrike|cool screenshots
22:04:10Shrike|who took them, want to congratulate them on a great music taste :D
22:05:31Shrike|hmm i wonder how i can pay for this though :D
22:05:59Stevie[FP]steal it
22:06:22Stevie[FP]note that while that is the cheapest way to do it, certain legal entities may take issue
22:06:36Shrike|i would! but i'd have to go to the site's base that i'm buying it from, break it, find it, steal, and not get caught
22:06:40Shrike|easier to buy it :)
22:08:03Shrike|so what patches do you use midknight2k3?
22:09:27midknight2k3i can't compile them well
22:09:31midknight2k3i have af ew though
22:09:39midknight2k3the wormlet patch and the chip8 emulator
22:09:46midknight2k3they were pre compiled
22:10:58Shrike|hmm, what do they need to be compiled in?
22:11:24midknight2k3compiled in? cygwin i think
22:13:02Shrike|definete purchase :)
22:13:25midknight2k3did i mention
22:13:31midknight2k3custom WPS, and custom fonts?
22:14:02midknight2k3there are
22:14:10midknight2k3about 20 fonts
22:14:17midknight2k3and you make your own WPS! woohoo
22:14:55Shrike|and that means?
22:15:05midknight2k3while playing screen
22:15:13midknight2k37 custom lines
22:15:25midknight2k3you could have it say:
22:15:28midknight2k3ID3 TITLE
22:15:35midknight2k3ID3 ARTIST
22:15:39midknight2k3ID3 ALBUM
22:15:49midknight2k3Time elapsed / Time remaining
22:15:53midknight2k3Total Time
22:15:56midknight2k3Progress Bar
22:15:58midknight2k3Peak Meter
22:16:01midknight2k3Bit rate
22:16:04midknight2k3something like that
22:16:11midknight2k3could be a wps
22:16:23midknight2k3here's the info
22:17:30Shrike|so i could have like the artist track album and all that and then like "I AM THE BEST! BOW DOWN TO MY AMAZING MUSIC TASTE!"?
22:17:50midknight2k3as the bottom line or something
22:18:16midknight2k3have it scroll :D
22:18:32midknight2k3but what i said above was just an idea
22:18:37Shrike|:D yes
22:18:38midknight2k3there are like 100 things you can choose from
22:19:01midknight2k3try that no an iPod
22:19:40midknight2k3try that ON an iPod
22:19:46midknight2k3i'll be back in a few mins
22:21:12Shrike|okily dokily
22:23:42midknight2k3um back
22:23:44midknight2k3im back
22:23:48midknight2k3(say "wb")
22:25:47Shrike|welcome back ;)
22:27:14Shrike|i've been here talking about this since 5
22:27:24midknight2k3did you try any of the things i mentioned with an iPod yet? :)
22:28:18Shrike|no :P
22:28:18 Quit NibbIer (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
22:28:24Shrike|because i have no ipod
22:28:34midknight2k3and you won't be getting one - hah!
22:28:37midknight2k3archos for sure
22:29:51midknight2k3I can now think of about 50 good reasons to get an archos-rockbox instead of an iPod
22:31:45Shrike|right i'm going for a shower and to see what i can sell to buy one of these
22:32:33 Part Shrike|
22:33:41 Quit probonic ()
22:53:36 Quit midknight2k3 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:03:13 Join tracktheripper [0] (
23:09:03 Join thu [0] (
23:18:34 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (
23:19:08[IDC]DragonOK, any daring FM user here?
23:27:32 Join diddystar5 [0] (
23:27:54diddystar5hey [IDC]Dragon
23:29:21[IDC]DragonDo you have an FM?
23:29:36diddystar5no just a recorder 20
23:34:24diddystar5[IDC]Dragon: do differn't levels of compression in uclpack effect the speed of rockbox any?
23:35:29[IDC]DragonNot really. I'd say high compression may even decompress faster, because there's more re-use of data.
23:36:19[IDC]DragonBut it doesn't matter as long as we decompress in a fraction of a second.
23:36:32[IDC]DragonMost of all we have to wait for the disk.
23:37:02[IDC]DragonWhen you see the Rockbox logo, decompression is done.
23:37:11diddystar5ok i see
23:38:51 Join Stevie-O [0] (
23:41:30[IDC]DragonHi Stevie, you've got an FM, right?
23:41:47Stevie-Oindeed I do
23:42:04Stevie-OI gotta get around to sending it back to Archos to get repaired
23:42:15 Join Shrike| [0] (
23:42:32diddystar5what happened?
23:42:36[IDC]Dragonwhat's wrong?
23:42:40Stevie-Otypical archos quality?
23:42:58Stevie-Othe dc connector has become loosened from the pcb
23:43:03Shrike|is the archos unreliable? o_o
23:43:09[IDC]DragonIs it operational?
23:43:29[IDC]DragonFeeling adventurous tonight?
23:43:36Stevie-Olike flashing?
23:43:51[IDC]DragonUhm, yes.
23:43:53Stevie-Onot if I'm going to be sending it back to Archos tomorrow :P
23:44:04Stevie-OI can run it on my emulator though! :P
23:44:13[IDC]DragonOne more reason to return it if it fails ;-)
23:44:15Stevie-Oalthough that's a lot less indicative of working
23:44:32Stevie-Osince I don't actually check most of the pins
23:45:19Stevie-OI need to get my damn device driver working
23:45:25[IDC]DragonYou can restore the original flash content, if desired.
23:46:19*Stevie-O ain't flashing anything atm
23:50:55diddystar5hehe the irony of flashing ;)
23:51:35*Stevie-O fails to see the irony you refer to
23:52:43 Quit diddystar5 ("Gotta Go!")
23:53:17 Quit edx ()
23:57:33*Stevie[FP] is away [(Auto-Away after 1hr)] [KS-MsgLog Off]

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