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#rockbox log for 2003-07-24

00:02:03elinenbewell, I went away for a few weeks, and now we have plugins. I guess I can finally port Quake.
00:02:16scott666go for it!
00:09:15tracktheripperwell all I want is ID3 tag editing, better file management and timestretching
00:10:07Unseen2Changing the playback speed of a file without changing pitch?
00:10:30tracktheripperThere is 2 types of timestretching
00:10:42tracktheripper1) Changing the playback speed without changing the pitch
00:10:51tracktheripper2) Changing the pitch without changing the playback speed
00:10:58Unseen2I don't think that's possible without detailed programming information for the MAS.
00:11:30tracktheripperits theoretically possible since you are simply keeping the pitch constant whilst changing playback speed
00:14:23 Quit _aLF ("bye")
00:14:50*Unseen2 is stupid - I just inserted the electronics of the JBR backwards into the outer shell. =(
00:15:45Unseen2Well, at least I'm getting practiced at removing and reinserting those d**n bumpers.
00:16:18scott666the bumpers aren't even a problem on the FMR :-)
00:17:23Unseen2Maybe, but I wouldn't want one - I like the remote.
00:24:31Unseen2Wow, it still works... Didn't expect that...
00:27:04scott666i know the feeling
00:44:34scott666hey, i have a question about setting up the windows sdk
00:45:33scott666#9 on doesnt seem to work...did i miss something?
00:53:11 Quit tracktheripper ("Leaving")
00:53:53Zagorscott666: what happens when you try it?
00:57:20***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:12:29scott666'no such file or directory'
01:13:00scott666for the ../tools/configure part
01:31:45Zagorsounds like you're in the wrong dir then
01:32:01 Quit Unseen2 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:32:18scott666im in ~/build-dir
01:32:31Zagoryou should be in ~/rockbox/build-dir
01:33:17scott666it doesnt say that in #9, at least not clearly enough
01:34:06Zagorok. tell roland, so he can fix it
01:34:06elinenbehardeep and ricII: excellent work on the dynamic playlist patch, I love it!
01:34:58hardeepelinenbe: heh, thanks
01:36:20 Quit mecraw ("Trillian (")
01:40:27scott666zagor: i am in rockbox/build-dir
01:43:07 Join midknight2k3 [0] (
01:43:55Zagorscott666: still doesn't work?
01:44:03midknight2k3hey Zagor
01:44:42scott666just to check, i should be in home\rockbox
01:44:56scott666*home\rockbox\build-dir, right?
01:45:18midknight2k3scott is compiling! yay
01:45:28scott666no scott isnt, and thats the problem
01:45:41midknight2k3scott is trying to learn to compile
01:45:44scott666i dont see any 'configure' in rockbox
01:45:48scott666damn \
01:46:05midknight2k3you must unpack the tools then
01:46:08midknight2k3and put them in there
01:46:09scott666i did
01:46:19midknight2k3try again
01:46:27Zagorso what's in there?
01:46:47midknight2k3all 4 cept configure?
01:46:53midknight2k3that happened to me once
01:46:58midknight2k3i think lol
01:47:26midknight2k3Zagor: what are these write rights i hear about?
01:47:42scott666bmp2rb.exe, convbdf.exe, descramble.exe, scramble.exe, and sh2d.exe
01:48:07midknight2k3someone said to me they hope i dont have write rights or something
01:48:14midknight2k3it was idc dragon i remember
01:48:23Zagorthey probably meant cvs commit access
01:48:43scott666you can add to the official rockbox code
01:48:43Zagorscott666: there should be more files. try unzipping the file again
01:49:07midknight2k3scott, was that directed at me?
01:49:12midknight2k3i don't understand
01:49:42scott666yeah, it was
01:49:57midknight2k3i can add to official rockbox code?
01:50:18midknight2k3so what does that have to do anything? the way i see it, (no offense) "duh"
01:50:19scott666if you have comit access
01:50:35midknight2k3and so i can't?
01:51:10scott666(correct me if im wrong) if you have comit access you can add code without it getting approved by anyone
01:51:30scott666it just goes in
01:52:01midknight2k3so i have to (for example) ask zagor if i can modify something ot see if it works?
01:52:25midknight2k3i can't submit a patch?
01:52:30scott666no, you can
01:52:43midknight2k3so how does the commit access affect me?
01:52:43Zagordon't worry, you don't have commit access
01:52:51scott666but if you need comit access to comit the patch to the cvs
01:53:00midknight2k3sigh lol
01:53:08Zagormeaning you cannot submit changes to cvs
01:53:15scott666*If you have
01:53:26scott666*but you need
01:53:35midknight2k3but that's no big deal?
01:53:42scott666not really
01:53:44midknight2k3i can do what i want and just keep it to myself right?
01:53:50midknight2k3unless i want to let everyone use it
01:53:53scott666and you can submit patches
01:53:56midknight2k3in which case i do a patch
01:54:07midknight2k3so im safe to modify a bit of rockbox code?
01:54:32midknight2k3thank god lol
01:56:05scott666zagor: i redownloaded rockbox-tools.tar.bz2 and re-unzipped it. same files
01:56:23midknight2k3very very odd
01:57:15Zagorseems roland missed some files when he made that file. grab them from the official source file instead.
01:57:31scott666and i do
01:58:05scott666i did that
01:58:50scott666so i should copy the files with no extensions, yes?
02:00:25scott666ok, now it works
02:04:12scott666should the source be in its own subdirectory in \rockbox, or should i just unzip it into \rockbox?
02:04:43Zagorit should be in rockobx
02:06:20 Join BoD[] [0] (
02:10:32scott666should the configure file still ask if you want games and demos now that we have the plugin loader?
02:10:53Zagorno, but we haven't removed that yet.
02:11:13midknight2k3hey bod
02:11:27midknight2k3i mean scott
02:11:29scott666does it matter what i answer?
02:11:36midknight2k3no never mind
02:11:42 Join earHurts [0] (
02:12:19midknight2k3how mice
02:12:23midknight2k3nothing bod
02:12:28midknight2k3how nice
02:12:32earHurtsthree button
02:12:52midknight2k3i bet
02:12:56scott666with a scroll wheel??
02:13:11earHurtsI likes my wheel
02:13:21midknight2k3i have a 4 button mouse
02:13:24midknight2k3with wheel
02:13:28midknight2k3aka intellimouse optical
02:13:38midknight2k3and a super keyboard, aka logitech elite
02:13:45earHurtsthat must suck, midk
02:14:11midknight2k3i bet it does
02:14:13earHurtshaving a mouse that's smarter than you
02:14:14midknight2k3but it doesn't
02:14:17*earHurts ducks
02:14:21midknight2k3it doesn't know C
02:14:42BoD[]i have a *GREAT* IBM ps/2 keyboard
02:14:56BoD[]it weights like 12k :)
02:15:13earHurtsgeek sizing
02:16:51earHurtsis there any alignment restriction for char []?
02:16:52scott666now i just have to remember C...
02:17:17midknight2k3lol scott
02:17:20midknight2k3do you know it?
02:17:29midknight2k3if not it's simple to get the basic idea
02:17:41scott666i took a C++ class in school last year
02:18:18earHurtsc++ allows you to do a lot
02:18:29scott666and C?
02:19:00earHurtsc also
02:19:09earHurtsbut c++ allows a bit more
02:19:37scott666are there any differences in syntax?
02:19:47earHurtsthat in c you'd have to do manually and thus error prone
02:19:58earHurtssomw minor differences
02:20:00midknight2k3i feel left out
02:20:06midknight2k3i know little C
02:20:40scott666i know no C but got an A in learning C should be easy right?
02:20:59midknight2k3look around C files
02:21:03midknight2k3pretty simple to learn
02:21:32scott666god 'make' takes a long time
02:21:34BoD[]midnight : did you manage to do the stuff you wanted to do ?
02:21:51earHurtsyes, scott
02:21:52midknight2k3so far
02:21:56midknight2k3i want though
02:22:00midknight2k3to make a new peak meter
02:22:03midknight2k3is my goal for later
02:22:11scott666i want games
02:22:14scott666lots of games
02:22:17midknight2k3there's 10 already!
02:22:26midknight2k3close enough ;)
02:22:29scott666and thats not enough!
02:22:34scott666i beat star
02:22:38midknight2k3there's snake which aint in the menu
02:22:40midknight2k3you did?
02:22:44BoD[]snake is GOOD
02:22:49BoD[]it should be in the menu
02:22:53midknight2k3i cant get past that one level where theres like 8 up and down in a row
02:22:57scott666what about worm?
02:22:58midknight2k3its not bod
02:23:00BoD[]it reminds me of Triton's FC Nibbles
02:23:11BoD[]i mean FT nibbles ;)
02:23:12scott666i know what youre talking about
02:23:21midknight2k3i cant do it
02:23:29BoD[]best game ever
02:23:30midknight2k3it gets hard, that game
02:23:34midknight2k3star i mean
02:23:36scott666when did that get into daily builds?
02:23:45midknight2k3a long time ago
02:23:51midknight2k34 days after plugin loader?
02:24:00scott666not star
02:24:10midknight2k3right away
02:24:17midknight2k3a few days after plugin loader came
02:24:19scott666then why the hell isnt it in the menu?
02:24:30midknight2k3it's just not put there yet
02:24:37midknight2k3i dont know
02:24:58scott666can you go through walls?
02:25:06midknight2k3its snake
02:25:07scott666like to the other side of the screen
02:25:08midknight2k3not snake 2
02:25:16scott666lol ok
02:25:21midknight2k3but probably simple to code to go thru walls
02:25:47scott666this is really slow
02:25:50scott666i can type while playing
02:25:58midknight2k3change speed
02:26:08BoD[]true snake should have a "wrap" option ;)
02:26:13BoD[]to go thru walls
02:26:17earHurtsdon't boast of your ability to type with one hand
02:26:19scott666does it get faster on its own?
02:26:33midknight2k3change speed by restarting it then pressing UP till the number is 9
02:26:35Zagorbed time
02:26:36 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
02:26:38midknight2k3bye zagor
02:26:45midknight2k3not even time to say nite lol
02:27:01midknight2k3wish i could port alex4 to rockbox :D
02:27:22scott666im thinking about making asteroids
02:27:29midknight2k3please do
02:27:32midknight2k3to test your skills
02:27:34scott666or breakout
02:27:35midknight2k3and to let me have fun
02:27:40midknight2k3breakout yeah
02:27:44midknight2k3do that first :D
02:27:55scott666gotta get all the games ipod has so i can piss off my friend
02:28:05midknight2k3probably possible
02:28:16midknight2k3but solitaire is grayscale so probably not possible
02:28:17scott666yeah breakout would be easy
02:28:22midknight2k3and fun
02:28:26scott666not solitare
02:28:30midknight2k3why not lol
02:28:33scott666thatd be impossible
02:28:53BoD[]tetris should could be improved a bit
02:28:59midknight2k3and how
02:29:13BoD[]the pieces are too "dark"
02:29:20BoD[]and small :)
02:29:24scott666it should have a replay option when it ends so you dont have to reload the plugin
02:29:26midknight2k3you can't control the shading
02:29:31midknight2k3it's black or white
02:29:34midknight2k3no grayscale
02:29:41scott666you can put dots in the middle
02:29:46midknight2k3that's gay
02:29:52midknight2k3then it looks like you left a spot open
02:29:53scott666youre gay
02:30:01scott666you have a solid outline
02:30:04midknight2k3i guess i should go then
02:30:19scott666the gameboy tetris had dots, fuck
02:30:29midknight2k3its also grayscale
02:30:41midknight2k3acrhos is not
02:30:52BoD[]and the gameboy tetris IS the best version ever
02:30:52scott666shut up
02:30:55BoD[]you can make "outlines"
02:31:04midknight2k3i leave now
02:31:10BoD[]like [ ][ ][ ][ ]
02:31:22 Quit midknight2k3 ("im gay and im stupid. what else? scott sucks.")
02:31:51PsycoXultetris sucks.
02:32:00BoD[]! ! ! ! !
02:32:14PsycoXulno, it really sucks
02:32:20BoD[]or be damned for ever
02:32:25PsycoXuli could never even stand to play it for more than a few minutes
02:32:38BoD[]i love tetris
02:32:43earHurtstetris is fun
02:32:53BoD[]it's my absolute favourite game
02:33:00BoD[]i can play for hours
02:33:21 Join midknight2k3 [0] (
02:33:26midknight2k3i win
02:33:31BoD[]I never finished the game boy version .. that's the big regret of my life
02:33:46midknight2k3how do you finish the archos / rockbox version?
02:33:54scott666you dont?
02:33:56midknight2k3i get to like level 1 lines 8 or something
02:34:07midknight2k3how far did you get?
02:34:23scott666i got to 70 lines in the archos tetris
02:34:29BoD[]i dont play a lot with archos
02:34:32midknight2k3you did not
02:34:35scott666i did
02:34:40midknight2k3i want to see picture
02:34:48scott666and i will never be able to do it again
02:34:50scott666but i did it
02:34:58scott666i usually die 40ish
02:34:59PsycoXulnow solitaire mahjong, what you call it tai pei? that's a good game :p
02:35:03scott666but i just kicked ass one time
02:35:22scott66670 lines
02:35:34scott666hey, make finished
02:35:37BoD[]i don't like "solitaire" type games
02:35:58PsycoXuli don't think mahjong'd work to well on the archos though
02:35:58BoD[]card games and such ... deminer ... never liked them
02:36:16PsycoXulBoD[]: well tetris is a "solitaire" game.. you play it by yourself
02:37:01PsycoXuland "solitaire" mahjong isn't like the card solitaire game(s)
02:37:18BoD[]but you know what i mean right ?
02:37:20PsycoXulit's you know what most people incorrectly know of as mahjong
02:37:22scott666we gotta look though atari games for ideas
02:37:34BoD[]i don't like the type of game where you have to "think" :)
02:37:40scott666like i said
02:37:43BoD[]in tetris it's all about reflex, not thinking
02:37:55PsycoXulthats probably why i don't like tetris
02:37:56PsycoXuli like to think :p
02:38:21PsycoXulbut tai pei isn't much for thinking either
02:38:24PsycoXuljust matching tiles
02:38:41scott666that game would be hard to put on an archos
02:38:51PsycoXulit's strategy is more about putting yourself in the right frame of mind than any kindof active thinking
02:39:10PsycoXulscott666: indeed it would, i don't think it'd be too nice heh
02:39:27 Join BoD{{}} [0] (
02:40:01 Quit BoD[] (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
02:40:50scott666oooh!! how about centipede
02:40:59PsycoXuli like asteroid
02:41:03BoD{{}}what was it again ?
02:41:11 Nick BoD{{}} is now known as BoD[] (
02:42:05PsycoXulyeah i wanted to have some sortof semi rogue-like game on my player
02:42:34earHurtsi want a flight sim
02:42:35BoD[]Quake 3
02:42:40PsycoXulthats actualy one of the few styles of game that'd be implimentable on a player
02:43:17BoD[]i don't know nethack
02:43:21scott666i still think doom is a good idea
02:43:37midknight2k3but impossible
02:43:49BoD[]not impossible
02:43:50midknight2k3the logo looked like crap so of course the game would be unusable
02:44:01PsycoXulit'd be crappy but possible
02:44:11scott666who cares? its doom
02:44:11BoD[]some of the demos good 3d
02:44:13earHurtsthe chip is what, 12MHz?
02:44:31PsycoXuli used to play doom just great on a 20mhz 486
02:44:41BoD[]i saw a doom-like on the hp 48
02:44:44earHurtsthere was a decent 2.5D dungeon for the palm
02:44:47BoD[]it was good
02:44:56earHurtsdemo, anyway
02:45:02PsycoXulpalm's got grayscale doesn't it?
02:45:08earHurtswhich was what, 33MHz
02:45:14earHurtsuh, yeah
02:45:26earHurtsgood point Psy
02:45:40earHurtswhy can't we grayscale?
02:45:46BoD[]it's not about grayscale in doom :)
02:45:46PsycoXulthe LCD sucks
02:45:50scott666LCD limitations
02:46:03scott666could we replace it?
02:46:08PsycoXulthough i've seen some demo's that sortof fake grayscale with fast flashing
02:46:23PsycoXulit's probably not a very practical effect though
02:46:26BoD[]on the archos ??
02:46:36scott666replacing the LCD sounds like an easier mod than upgrading the ram
02:47:01PsycoXulwell you'd have to replace both the LCD and it's controller i think
02:47:16scott666yeah, youre probably right
02:47:22scott666and then rockbox would have to support it
02:47:43PsycoXulneed a whole new lcd driver
02:47:53scott666fuck greyscale
02:48:10scott666if were replacing the LCD lets replace with a color one
02:48:15BoD[]i'm not sure the "lcd blinking" trick to do gray scales coule be possible with the current lcd
02:48:34PsycoXulBoD[]: well it worked on my studio20
02:48:39earHurtsit's an ugly hack anyway
02:48:43PsycoXuli dunno about recorders
02:48:47BoD[]psycho : oh ok :)
02:48:58PsycoXuland either way like i said i don't think it's really practical to make good use of
02:48:58scott666studio20? arent those players?
02:49:01BoD[]i wasn't sure it was tested sometime
02:49:03PsycoXulscott666: yeah
02:49:34scott666do they have the new lcd?
02:49:36PsycoXulsomebody made some cool little demos for the players
02:49:41scott666oh ok
02:49:43PsycoXulthat use a block of custom chars for a bitmap display
02:50:15midknight2k3i will go now
02:50:53earHurtsis he quoting yeats or wordsworth?
02:51:00 Quit midknight2k3 ("don't forget i am ugly and stupid and <scott666> youre gay")
02:51:18earHurtsi will arise and go now
02:51:26scott666who the fuck called him ugly?
02:51:41PsycoXuli want a truecolor, resizable, 3D display with a sortof 3D touch-sensitive-ish kindof interactability
02:51:44scott666dumb bastard...
02:51:57scott666like in minority report?
02:52:00earHurtseveryone is beautiful
02:52:01BoD[]psyco : i want neuronal connectivity ;) the web
02:52:09PsycoXulwhy don't one of you invent that and mod the archos for it
02:52:21scott666ill put it on my to-do list
02:52:26PsycoXulscott666: i don't recall seeing anything quite like it anywhere
02:52:30scott666right after porgramming the MAS chip
02:52:38PsycoXulwhat i picture is something you pull out of your pocket and you can stretch out to any size you like
02:53:09scott666thats great
02:53:47scott666you would want something like that, wouldnt you psycho?
02:53:59PsycoXulyea scohtt
02:54:56PsycoXulas far as neuronal connectivity, well then i start to wonder why not just develop your mind to the point you don't need a computer :p
02:55:22PsycoXuland by computer i mean to say a 2nd, inferiour, man-made one
02:55:49scott666or go the other direction
02:56:00scott666and replace your brain with a portable Deep Blue
02:56:08PsycoXulthat'd be a downgrade
02:56:32PsycoXulpeople don't seem to realize that the human mind is the most powerful, sophisticated thing in the known universe
02:56:36scott666well pick a super computer
02:57:06BoD[]sha1 is enough
02:57:18PsycoXuland part of the problem seems to be that people think their mind consists of the conscious part that they tend to think with
02:57:19scott666but, like the MAS chip, we dont have the documentation to use it the way we want to
02:57:22PsycoXulwhen really that's more like the UI of it
02:57:24***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:57:58PsycoXulpeople are mistaking their monitor and keyboard for the whole computer :p
02:58:42scott666but god, like micronas, doesnt want to release the docs because they dont want their intellectual property stolen
02:58:56scott666you cant have just anyone building brains
02:59:02BoD[]god believes in IP
02:59:08scott666god uses LISP
02:59:22 Join thu [0] (
02:59:23BoD[]why not lambda calculus ;)
02:59:35PsycoXulthe design, or any openness of such isn't the problem
02:59:36scott666wheres the fun in that?
02:59:44PsycoXulit's how much people are willing to study it
02:59:54PsycoXuland how they go about it...
02:59:56scott666well its not easy to study a live brain
03:00:09PsycoXullike you can't really learn much about how to use your mind by studying anybody elses, or by studying it's mechanisms even
03:00:19scott666what with it being it peoples heads and all
03:00:27PsycoXulit's quite easy
03:00:32PsycoXuljust look within yourself
03:00:42PsycoXulpay attention to your own mental workings
03:00:44scott666its THAT easy is it??
03:00:50scott666well ill just turn my eyes inside out hen
03:00:52PsycoXulyou'd be suprised how much you learn
03:01:07PsycoXulyour eyes cannot percieve it
03:01:10scott666(sarcasm?? whats that?!)
03:01:25PsycoXulyou are self-aware you know
03:01:31PsycoXuljust use your minds eye to examine your mind
03:01:33PsycoXulit can do that :p
03:01:39PsycoXulbut my dinner's ready
03:01:57PsycoXulso i'll leave with one piece of advice everybody on earth should follow: study yourself
03:02:13BoD[]i'm not sure it's really possible
03:05:26scott666'study yourself' theres some simple, straight-forward advice
03:05:45fraggleknow thyself
03:06:23 Quit elinenbe (" HydraIRC -> <- s0 d4Mn l33t |t'z 5c4rY!")
03:14:10scott666anyone know what the version 2.2 GUI overhaul is supposed to be?
03:25:14PsycoXulit's not that hard... just be more self-aware, and do it consistently... eventualy you'll notice all kinds of things you never realized your mind does and can do
03:26:13BoD[]moi j'ai example
03:26:23BoD[]copypaste error
03:41:02scott666ive had about 3 years of french
03:41:23BoD[]donc tu parles franšais
03:41:58BoD[] == so
03:42:05scott666je parle un peu de franšais, oui
03:42:20scott666was that right?
03:42:27scott666its summer, i usually forget everything
03:43:08BoD[]remove the "de"
03:51:03 Quit edx ()
04:08:12 Quit fraggle ("My damn controlling terminal disappeared!")
04:47:50BoD[]i have to go to bed!
04:47:52BoD[]a++++++++ + +
04:47:56 Quit BoD[] ("bebebeb")
04:48:48 Join elinenbe [0] (
04:57:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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05:38:37scott666anyone know what the version 2.2 'gui overhaul' is supposed to be about?
05:39:03hardeepscott666: clean up the menus etc., make it more user friendly
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06:08:51thuwhat is there to clean?
06:09:04*thu wonders how you can make a line of text more user friendly
06:09:15scott666you can organize it better
06:09:40thuas long as it doesn't get over-organized and slower to navigate
06:10:16scott666its just as easy to go left and right as it is to go up and down
06:10:55thuit's harder to keep track where you are though
06:11:16thuI'm happy enough with the current menus
06:11:20scott666not if its categorized right
06:11:23thuI'd like to be convinced otherwise
06:11:42thuscott666: I don't disagree that there's always room for improvement
06:11:55scott666if youre in an options menu and all the options deal with the same type of thing its easy enough to tell where you are
06:12:01scott666im working on it now
06:12:10scott666cause im bored and i saw it on the main page
06:12:19thuI should get into rockbox too
06:12:25thuI didn't code anything fun in ages
06:12:31scott666me too
06:12:45scott666but its hard to just jump into a big project like this
06:12:52thuI was actually thinking of nokia-style menus
06:12:57thuwith pictures for categories
06:13:00thuor for all items
06:13:13thubut I brought it up and I get it that it would eat up memory
06:13:21thuand cause more disk spinning => less battery life
06:13:29scott666and itd be a lot more confusing that text
06:13:36thumaybe maybe not
06:13:43thuagain.. it could be ok if done right
06:13:45scott666you could make it a plugin
06:13:57scott666then no spin-ups as long as its <30k
06:14:19thu2M is not enough for anything fun
06:14:27thuI had in mind a sort of audio-based nethack game
06:14:36thubut that would take some work and kill the battery in no time
06:14:50thueverything comes down to spin-ups and batt life
06:15:00scott666not to mention youd have to reprogram the MAS
06:15:29scott666the mp3 decoding chip
06:15:42scott666which is programmable, but we have no documentation
06:15:51scott666look at the nodo.txt file in the docs
06:16:06thuI think I remember reading something like that
06:16:21*thu wonders why archos wouldn't give out all their docs to the rockbox devs
06:16:34scott666its not archos, its micronas
06:16:43scott666cause archos didnt make the MAS
06:16:49thuwell doesn't archos have the MAS docs?
06:16:59thuor did they devel a device with parts they know nothing about
06:17:15scott666they do but probably cant release it
06:17:29scott666because its micronas' intellectual proterty
06:17:30scott666or something
06:17:39scott666besides, archos are bastards
06:17:51thuthen make the rockbox people do "contract work" for archos or something
06:17:59thurockbox is in their direct best interest
06:18:07thubetter firmware => more buyers
06:18:42thuespecially with all their new models coming out
06:18:52thuthey basically have people writing code for them for free
06:19:08scott666but then theyd have to pay us
06:19:10thuif I were an archos rep I'd start shipping new units to the rockbox people
06:19:40scott666and rockbox doesnt work with anything newer than FM
06:19:49thuexactly my point
06:19:57scott666and they dont plan to
06:20:07thuwhat if all notable rockbox devels got a shiny new multimedia thingy to their door
06:20:11thuwith a big box of docs
06:20:15thufiguratelly speaking
06:20:25thuone wonders
06:20:46scott666yeah but i dont HAVE a multi media, so i dont really care
06:21:03thuguess they didn't discover good business sense in france
06:21:06scott666$300 was enough to pay for me
06:21:19thuyeah I was close to that too with my FM
06:21:35thubut in a year from now the multimedias will be under $300
06:21:38scott666yeah, i think i came in at about $270
06:22:49thuthe rockbox project is great but doesn't seem to have any future
06:23:12thuit's strictly linked to the player/recorder/fm series
06:23:15scott66630k apps to do whatever you want
06:23:19thuthey are already getting old
06:23:32thumy point is that the user base isn't all that big
06:23:41scott666what more do you need though?
06:23:44thuand the devices will become obsolete soon
06:24:00thuwell some view of the future
06:24:13thulike extending to the new multimedia thingies
06:24:15scott666mp3 is too big to be obsolete any time soon
06:24:25thunot mp3 but the actual archoses
06:24:29thuplayers are already gone
06:24:59scott666you can still buy the studios
06:25:37thuarchos isn't developing anything similar to the recorders afaik
06:25:46thuand rockbox has no plans to expand do the multimedia devices
06:26:05thuso probably rockbox will slowly die on its own
06:26:36scott666as long as people have their archos, rockbox wont die
06:26:56scott666i invest $300, im expecting a few years use out of it
06:27:10thuthere's only so many things you can do within the hardware limitations
06:27:20thuheh I don't expect mine to last that long
06:27:23thubut you never know :)
06:27:25scott666it plays mp3s
06:27:31scott666it records mp3s
06:27:35scott666it has a radio
06:27:38scott666what more do you want?
06:27:54scott666all id want is upgrade
06:28:11thuhow much devel time is a project worth when you can't add any major features?
06:28:18scott66660gb hd, 8mb (or more) ram, better processor
06:28:34thuhmm it would be fun to upgrade the processor
06:28:38scott666id say games were a major feature
06:28:38thuwonder if it's even possible
06:28:57thunot for me.. don't know about most people
06:29:32scott666obviously this project is worth something, as its been going for multiple years
06:30:13scott666the mailing list archive goes back to 12/01
06:30:20thuit's not really worth all the effort imho but I guess people had fun working on it
06:30:29thuand the end product is a few steps better
06:30:50scott666the archos firmware is terrible
06:30:55thuthat's not true
06:30:58thuit does the job
06:31:06scott666it doesnt do it well though
06:31:08thuI used it for a few months before I switched to rockbox
06:31:13thuyou hit play, you hear the song
06:31:34thuany firmware is good as long as you never think about it
06:31:39scott666i expect this project was well worth the money they spent on getting your archos to work well
06:31:53scott666that didnt come out right
06:32:00thuwhat's so bad about the original firmware?
06:32:08thuI'm not talking about features but bugs
06:32:14scott666it works
06:32:17scott666but it doesnt work well
06:32:26scott666no resume
06:32:33scott666thats a big one
06:32:36thuis it?
06:32:47thuI said I'm not talking about features
06:32:53scott666i am
06:32:54thuyou say it doesn't work _well_
06:33:04thuin what way doesn't it do the implemented features?
06:33:14scott666it doesnt have enough features to defint a _good_ product
06:33:31scott666its acceptable
06:33:32scott666it works
06:33:39scott666but it isnt good
06:33:45scott666rockbox is
06:33:56thunot good usually means buggy
06:34:09scott666well it doesnt in this case
06:34:09thuin this case you use it for "lacking some secondary features"
06:34:14scott666just feature lacking
06:34:21thuyeah I agree with that
06:34:43scott666it doesnt take full advantadge of the hardware
06:35:31thuI bet that will be even more the case for the new models
06:35:40thuthey seem to be getting some better hw inside
06:35:45thubigger screens too
06:35:50scott666and color
06:35:56thu=> more things one could do with an alternate firmware
06:36:09scott666just think of the games on the new one
06:36:26scott666but thats probably powerful enough to just run a PDA OS
06:36:38thuthe input is still limited
06:36:53thuno touch screen, no keyboard
06:37:13scott666have you seen the new models?
06:37:23thua really nice thing would be a slick PDA with a hard drive attached
06:37:26thunah just pics
06:37:27scott666that are the size of hte archos but like all of its screen?
06:37:33thusomething like that
06:38:08thuadd a 20G drive to something like a sharp zaurus or hp jornada / ex-compaq ipaq and you got one cool device
06:38:11scott666its capable of being a pda with a mic, camera, and 60gb HD
06:38:34thuwell basically you can have a whole pc
06:38:35scott666all it needs is wifi
06:38:43thuthe new pdas run at ~233MHz and above
06:38:45scott666or something similar
06:38:55thuthere are wifi modules for pdas
06:39:21scott666and 802.11b, but i cant recall what exactly that is atm
06:39:29thuactually what is actually possible to do is get a pda with an usb host expansion card
06:39:32thu802.11b is wifi
06:39:56thuI think someone was saying here that one of the toshibas has an usb host option
06:40:08thuthey you can have a cable going into your pocket to a simple usb2 drive
06:40:12thuor an archos for that matter
06:40:32thu=> wearable computer
06:41:01scott666like the glasses that have a screen in them?
06:41:16scott666but you can still see through it
06:41:31thuheh maybe.. that's not ready for the end user yet
06:42:09thubut you can get a pda with wifi/bluetooth/60G drive
06:42:37thunice thing about the archos multimedia versions is that you can plug them into yer tv
06:42:44thuand record / playback divx
06:42:48scott666have you noticed that cell phones, PDAs, and mp3 players are all going in the same dirrection?
06:43:10thuwell there's only so many things a device can do
06:43:27thuin the idea of a wearable computer I like modularity
06:43:29scott666phones are becoming camera and internet
06:43:45*thu drools at sony-ericsson p800
06:43:56scott666pdas have internet and can be used as phones and mp3 players
06:44:08thuit would be fun if you could have different modules interact through wifi
06:44:17thuor even cable in the beginning
06:44:28scott666have your archos call your pda
06:44:37thuso you can have a hdd in your pocket that you can share with your pda/phone and with the guy sitting next to you
06:45:05thuas long as it's short-range it shouldn't be a problem
06:45:10thubut that calls for one more thing
06:45:23scott666thats the problem
06:45:23thube it wifi, bluetooth or something else
06:45:46scott666different brands of cell phones arent even compatible for text messaging
06:45:53thuhmm toshibas do have usb hosts
06:45:58thuI know
06:46:14scott666thats the good thing about monopolies
06:46:16thuand unfortunatelly they're converging towards the old web standars
06:46:20scott666everyting is compatable
06:46:29thuthat weren't designed for mobile devices
06:46:47thuI don't think I'd appreciate a cell phone manufacturer monopoly
06:46:56thustandards do better
06:47:01scott666but we dont have any
06:47:24scott666we dont have A standard
06:47:33scott666as in one
06:47:39scott666that everyone uses
06:48:08scott666and the problem with stanards is new technology
06:48:31thuI guess nobody has a clear vision for the future
06:48:33scott666cause if a newer, faster, better, incompatable technology comes out, all old devices are ovsolete
06:48:36thuthey keep putting out weird devices
06:48:42thuthat do things poorly
06:48:52thujust look at all the weird cellphones
06:48:58scott666camera phones take TERRIBLE pictures
06:49:03thuwell duh
06:49:11scott666that nokia n-gauge is gonna fail miserably
06:49:12thunobody seems to care
06:49:29thuheh I used my pda with a cellphone module for about a year
06:49:32thua visor phone
06:49:40thuthen switched back to a huge old motorola
06:49:42thufelt sooo good
06:49:53thu(I broke the visor phone's antenna and they wouldn't replace it)
06:50:03thuI dropped the old phone in some awful ways
06:50:06thuit still works
06:50:16thutry doing that with a new cell phone
06:50:26thuit'll break into pieces
06:50:51thuhehe I actually threw my motorola at someone and missed
06:51:04thuit slammed against the wall and broke in two pieces
06:51:10thubattery and phone
06:51:17thuI just picked them up and put them back together
06:51:20thuno problem :)
06:51:39scott666ive seen some cheap phones that flip open
06:51:45scott666...and then the top breaks off
06:51:52thufor me that's more of a feature than whistles and bells
06:52:05thuyeah I remember people talking about the new motorola flip phones
06:52:08thuthey had some really small ones
06:52:24thuthey said they break realllllly easy
06:52:59scott666a friend of a friend got one
06:53:10scott666i saw it happen
06:53:16thuhehe nice
06:53:25thuwas that covered by warranty?
06:53:36scott666he flipped it open and the top just kept going into the table
06:53:42scott666i think
06:53:44thuoh and audio quality is dropping too
06:53:53thubecause nobody wants ugly antennas anymore
06:53:59scott666i havnt bought a cell phone yet
06:54:08thuI lost one
06:54:10scott666too expensive
06:54:11thuhad one stolen
06:54:13thubroke one
06:54:17scott666at fisrt and per month
06:54:23thuand I ended up with this old motorola
06:54:28thuoh funny story
06:54:37thuI used to keep this big phone in my backpack
06:54:44scott666same reason i didnt buy SW galaxies...
06:54:56thusome guys crowded me, opened my backpack and stole the phone
06:55:07thuthen they ran after me and asked for some money to give it back :)
06:55:14thuthey didn't even wanna keep it when they saw it
06:55:25thuI payed them less that it would have cost me to replace the SIM card
06:55:41thuthat's like the perfect phone
06:55:56thuif you can get a good battery.. that's the only thing going bad with time
06:56:09thuit did only one thing
06:56:13thubut it did it well
06:56:15scott666call people?
06:56:28thuyeah.. no problems with range and call quality
06:56:32scott666but what if you NEED a phone that makes pasta?
06:56:42thuI'd have 1-2 bars of signal when people with fancy phones didn't have any signal
06:57:10thuhehe I didn't see one of those yet
06:57:28***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:57:57thuI'm looking at the specs for toshiba e350 now
06:58:02thu300MHz CPU
06:58:06thu64M RAM
06:58:18scott666better than this old comp next to me
06:58:22thuyou can expand it with an usb host and connect to an external drive
06:58:24scott666from 96
06:58:28thuyeah same here
06:58:34thuI have a p166/32 ram under the table
06:58:36scott666its a p2 166 with 48MB ram
06:58:42thup1 166
06:58:46thuthere's no p2 166 :)
06:58:53scott666youre right
06:59:03scott666p2s were in the 400s right?
06:59:22thuthey went as high as 450MHz iirc
06:59:31thuinfrared port
06:59:34thuusb client and usb host
06:59:35scott666the computer im using is a p3 600
06:59:41thustereo headphone jack
06:59:48thuheh what more can you want
06:59:59scott666brand new in 1999
07:00:04thuit's about $300 too
07:00:06scott666geforce2 32mb
07:00:22scott666soundblaster live
07:00:32scott666640mb ram
07:00:39thusound: ac-97 codec chip
07:00:41scott666...ok that was an upgrade
07:00:50thuyeah same here
07:00:54scott666stated with 128
07:00:58thu640M I mean
07:01:04thuI went as high as 890M
07:01:15thubut downgraded since
07:01:23thuor 894?
07:01:31thuyou do the math :)
07:01:43scott6661024 - 128
07:02:24thuhere :)
07:02:41scott666i love Calculator
07:03:14scott666'IRC is just multiplayer notepad
07:03:56thuhehe sorta
07:04:09thuI'm too lazy to fire up a terminal
07:05:13thuI wonder if this toshiba can play divx-es
07:05:21thuand whether I could run linux on it
07:05:27thuwindows ce is evil
07:05:45scott666that the PDA OS?
07:06:08thuAdditional software: Pocket Word, Pocket Excel, Pocket Outlook┬«, Pocket Internet Explorer, Microsoft┬« Windows┬« MediaÔäó Player 9 for Pocket PC, File Explorer, MSN┬« Messenger, Microsoft┬« Active Sync┬« 3.7, Microsoft┬« Outlook┬« and ArcSoft PhotoBaseÔäó.
07:06:11PsycoXulwhat kinda toshiba
07:06:28thuPsycoXul: e350
07:06:38PsycoXulmy parents have e740-NW's
07:06:49thuPsycoXul: it's cool that it has an usb host.. you can link it with an archos
07:07:14PsycoXulthey've got 400mhz x-scale's but oddly my 300mhz MIPS be-300 that was several hundred $ cheaper actualy plays video better
07:07:27thuPsycoXul: toshiba?
07:07:30PsycoXulthu: yeah thats cool
07:07:36thuPsycoXul: can you run anything else than windoze on it?
07:07:42thuas in linux
07:07:45PsycoXultheir e740's are toshiba my be-300 is casio
07:07:47PsycoXulthu: i think so
07:08:15PsycoXuli haven't checked into it so much since they won't let me put it on there, but i think there's a version that'll run on 'em
07:08:35scott666does the xaurus use linux by default?
07:08:42thuyeah.. with qtopia
07:08:47thuand it's zaurus
07:08:55scott666close enough
07:09:09PsycoXuli wish i could put linux on mine...
07:09:19thume too
07:09:26PsycoXulthere's a project for it, but it's reaaaallly slow going and barely getting anywhere
07:09:28scott666rockbox PDA edition...
07:09:33thuI have a 16MHz hanspring visor :)
07:10:42PsycoXulwell actualy it's gotten to be able to run on it, have a commandline with a text input thing via the direction pad and buttons, and apparently there's some very basic support for the touchscreen, but that minimal touchscreen support's all that's happened since i got this thing in january
07:12:37scott666is no one trying anything or is there just no documentation on how to do any of this?
07:13:32PsycoXulmany pda's inner workings are dark and esoteric
07:14:33PsycoXulwince, like all versions of windows, is terrible to deal with
07:14:44PsycoXuland all the main developers are busy with other things most of the time
07:14:58PsycoXulit's not exactly a widesrpead pda either
07:15:03PsycoXulso it all adds up to extremely slow development
07:15:26scott666thats funny
07:15:33scott666windows ce = wince
07:15:45PsycoXulit's the most appropriately named microsoft product ever
07:16:00scott666im trying decide if thats ironic or just apt
07:17:16PsycoXulcasio even put their own semi-crippled version of wince on this thing
07:17:27PsycoXulinstead of the standard interface, it's got a really crappy menu thing
07:17:45PsycoXuland it's missing a bunch of standard stuff so that most regular MIPS pocketpc apps won't even run on it
07:18:17PsycoXulfortunately one project that's had considerably more progress is expod that gives it a standard windows-like shell and puts back most of the missing stuff so it'll run many of pocketpc apps
07:19:07scott666*is completely ignorany about PDAs*
07:19:55PsycoXulheh i don't have much experience with them, but like
07:20:14PsycoXulmy parents' e740's run pocketpc2002 or such OS which is just a newer version of wince i guess
07:21:00thusteal it and install linux
07:21:04thuput it back and wait for reaction
07:21:06PsycoXuland it's interface is just like a screen with some info on it and a menu that lets you start some software, including something that's sorta like win3.1's program manager
07:21:42scott666*shudder* bad memories
07:22:12PsycoXulwince sucks though, they try to make it as un-computer-like as they can it seems
07:23:12PsycoXuljust because most people don't usualy want to resize their windows and run a bunch of stuff that can be displayed at once on a 240x320 screen, doesn't mean it should simply not have that functionality :p
07:23:45thuthat's probably a feature
07:23:53thumy mother usually loses windows on the screen
07:23:58thuor drags them to some shady corner
07:24:03scott666see, now thats just your problem for expecting M$ to make a decent product
07:24:07thuand she ends up with literally tens of windows
07:24:11thumostly popups and crap
07:24:26PsycoXulwell actualy thats still a problem but it's worse cause with this thing you've got no way at all to see what windows are behind the top one
07:24:41scott666theres no alt-tab??
07:24:44thusounds just like my openbox workstation :)
07:25:08PsycoXulscott666: i think i even tried that hehe
07:26:14scott666i think i got everything
07:26:37scott666im redesigning the menu
07:26:51PsycoXulmy cheap pda suits my needs though... can't beat 300mhz MIPS with 15bit color screen for ~$125
07:26:52thuI'd rather get a sony u1 or the like than a pda
07:27:00scott666theres a lot of options in those sub dirs
07:27:09thuPsycoXul: can I connect to an usb hdd
07:27:17PsycoXulall i need is a more efficient way to input to it
07:27:27PsycoXulthu: i can't, but if yours has USB host support than i'd say so :p
07:27:41thuPsycoXul: heh the $300 toshibas do
07:27:46scott666just tape the archos to the PDA
07:27:49PsycoXulmy parents' do but it needs an expasion thing or an adapter plug
07:27:57thuPsycoXul: not much sense in having a 300MHz cpu if you can't play movies
07:28:08thuPsycoXul: yeah it needs a special chord
07:28:15PsycoXulthu: hehe well i got a network card for it
07:28:35thulet me guess.. 10-T coax :)
07:28:50PsycoXul10mbit ethernet
07:29:03PsycoXulit's ne2k compatible
07:29:04thuif it's not wifi it's no good
07:29:12PsycoXulyeah but it was cheap
07:29:26PsycoXuli don't have anything wireless, so if i got a wifi card it'd have cost me
07:29:33PsycoXulmore than the pda itself heh
07:30:00thuI like this baby
07:30:36thu6.4" LCD :)
07:30:56thuI'm not sure if it also comes with a cute japanese chick like in the ad
07:31:22scott666mail order bride/PDA combo pack
07:31:37thudump the bride.. send me 2 pdas :)
07:31:55scott666oooh! or the 'buy the 12yo who made it' package
07:32:01PsycoXulit's still not up to what i'm waiting for
07:32:22PsycoXuli still want that resizable screen :p
07:32:55thujapanese designers are weird
07:32:55scott666'something you can pull out of your pocket and make it any size you want'
07:32:56PsycoXuli want something that's smaller than that thing in my pocket or in-hand, but bigger on a table :p
07:33:34scott666smaller than that thing in your pocket?
07:33:41PsycoXulsmaller than that thing
07:33:45PsycoXulwhile in my pocket or hand
07:33:56scott666set yourself up for that one
07:34:13scott666i didnt even get to 'or in-hand'
07:34:18PsycoXulit doesn't have to be 3D, but it should be high quality, high res, and stretchable
07:34:23thu36-inch monitor in which Sony uses thermal transfer films that were printed by laminating the color filter and phosphorus to allow the monitor to thermally transfer pictures directly to the glass of the CRT
07:34:32thuhmm sony rulz
07:34:43scott666i want a PSP!!
07:35:07scott666playstaion portable
07:35:21scott666mp3/video/game player than runs on UMBs
07:35:37PsycoXulhmm heh
07:35:50scott6661.7gb on a minidisc
07:35:54PsycoXulthu: looks awkward
07:36:02PsycoXullike a book
07:36:04thuPsycoXul: "subnotebook"
07:36:19thuthis site has some nice toys
07:36:25scott666your thumbs would smudge the screen
07:37:01PsycoXulmy image of technology is set too far into the future to be impressed by much that's even nearing a consumer market
07:38:03*thu is laptopless and looking
07:38:09PsycoXulthe stretchable screen thing is one of my more realistic for the near future ideas
07:38:24scott666can you guys help me think of a category name for these fatures?:
07:38:48thuyeah "heh" is pretty good too
07:39:28scott666scroll bar, status bar, invert LCD, line selector, volume display, battery display, show icons
07:39:43thuscott666: Display
07:39:55scott666sub dir of display
07:40:13scott666theyre all gui-type changes
07:40:40thuForce Feedback
07:40:58scott666the archos shocks you when the song changes?
07:41:07PsycoXulthough i dunno if scroll bar really fits with those
07:41:07scott666'ultimate tetris'
07:41:25scott666why not?
07:41:32thuUser Interface
07:41:33PsycoXulwell ok it could
07:41:42scott666it fits just as well as status bar
07:42:06PsycoXulactualy you're right, nm
07:42:26scott666ui might work
07:42:29PsycoXulthey all are feedback options, uh info toggles, ...
07:43:03PsycoXuloh invert LCD isn't feedback/info so i guess not
07:43:20scott666any of those are better than the current name. [a good name for all these visual changes]
07:43:26thuUser Interface
07:43:27PsycoXuli'm gonna watch the last episode of taken now heh
07:43:37scott666thats good
07:45:24scott666i think im done
08:05:12scott666theres about 5 feature suggestions imbedded in it
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08:06:04scott666the .rockbox browsing patch, new FM radio stuff, lots of new dirs in the .rockbox directory...
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08:29:10scott666ok, its posted to the list
08:29:26scott666if anyones still awake who cares
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12:16:27tracktheripperhi badger
12:16:59tracktheripperive ran out of ideas for requests :-(
12:17:44tracktheripperbet you are well pleased :-)
12:18:05BagderI think we have requests to fill up a few years ahead ;-)
12:19:16tracktherippercool :-)
12:19:23tracktheripperive a good one :-)
12:19:53tracktheripper"Turn off 'Rejected', 'Invalid' and 'Works For Me' in Sourceforge :-)
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12:49:42earHurtsin rb, pointers are 4 byte aligned?
12:50:43earHurtstime for some ugly code then
12:52:15earHurtswhen shuffle is on, can I determine what the next song would be in NON shuffled mode?
12:54:08earHurtsyou sure? I mean, if I turn shuffle off while song x is playing, don't I get song x+1 next?
12:55:29Zagor|awayyes, but the list must be resorted to get it
12:55:42Zagor|awayso, unless you actuall unshuffle it you can't find out
12:57:04adi|homewell.. you wouldn't have to unsuffle..
12:57:16adi|homeyou could just open the playlist, read to the offset you do know
12:57:21earHurtsso the songs in the playlist have orinal numbers
12:57:26adi|homeand parse to the next cr...
12:57:32earHurtsordinal, even
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12:57:35adi|homebut it doesn't really help you all that much
12:57:59adi|homethe 'playlist' for rockbox is a list of the offsets into a file for a particular song
12:58:12adi|homethen we shuffle that list off offsets
12:58:21Zagor|away(i'm really away now... :)
12:58:21earHurtsinto a file!
12:58:28adi|homeso if you want to call that ordinal, then yup.
12:58:37adi|homeearHurts: yup.. into your playlist file
12:58:42earHurtsso I could just read line x + 1 of the original file
12:58:59adi|homebut it wont' help you for file x+y
12:59:04adi|homesong rather
12:59:27adi|homebecause the playlist (to be efficient) will still hve to be "unshuffled" which means just reading in the file and parsing it again.
12:59:41adi|homemake sense?
13:00:34earHurtsmaybe I'll keep two copies of the lists of pointers
13:00:45adi|homewaste of space..
13:00:48adi|homewhat are you trying to do?
13:01:04adi|homemaybe i can offer advice since im not up close on the code
13:01:19earHurtsI have classical music. usually, each movement of a work is a seperate track
13:01:34earHurtsbut I want all movements to play in order
13:01:48earHurtswhile shuffling the works
13:02:05adi|homeokay... i think i understand...
13:02:14PsycoXulnestable playlists!
13:02:25adi|homebasically thats what he wants yup.
13:02:26PsycoXulwith shuffle toggles for each layer?
13:02:28earHurtsPsy yes, that would work
13:02:42earHurtsand indeed, it has occurred to me
13:02:58earHurtsbut I'm thinking of generated playlists
13:02:59adi|homebut we can't make our playlists include codes to make them recursive
13:03:05adi|homethat would make them not standard
13:03:25earHurtsthe #EXTINFO|line is standard and extensible
13:03:39adi|homebah.. humbug
13:03:59earHurtsin any case
13:04:07PsycoXulyeah but anything that doesn't know the thing telling it what playlist to recurse to will miss whatever's in that 2nd playlist
13:04:14PsycoXulwhich makes that playlist incomplete
13:04:29earHurtsan auto playlist won't be nested
13:04:59earHurtsso I thought of a kludge
13:05:04earHurtsan ugly kludge
13:05:34earHurtsWe suffle as usual.
13:05:58earHurtswhen we load an mpeg, we check the TPOS tag
13:06:30adi|homeare we sure to have a TPOS tag on every file?
13:06:36earHurtsif it's not blank and doesn't start with [0]*1
13:07:13earHurtswe skip the song. if it is [0]*1
13:07:38earHurtswe play it and the subseqent tracks
13:07:55adi|homebut how do you know what those 'subseqent' tracks are?
13:08:16earHurtsI'm assuming the tpos is of the form 1/4
13:08:48adi|homerigth.. but if the playlist is shuffled.. there is no way to assure that the next file on the playlist is 2/4
13:09:31earHurtsthus the need to find the next unshuffled track
13:10:00adi|homestill won't solve your problem
13:10:19adi|homewhat if the first (very first) file i hit on the shuffled playlist is 3/4?
13:10:28adi|homedo we 'search back' till be find 1/4?
13:10:31earHurtsyou skip it
13:10:55earHurtsoptionally, you also remove it from the playlist pointer list
13:11:07adi|homemight i offer an easier solution?
13:11:26adi|homeokay.. let me see if this helps you..
13:11:35adi|hometake the sorted list (normal playlist)
13:12:06adi|homejump to a random point (its a playlist, you know how big it is, so take a random # from 1 - sizeof(list))
13:12:16adi|homenow.. see if that is your 1/4
13:12:34adi|homeif not... skip till you find it (you are in a sorted list so you know how far to jump ahead)
13:13:02adi|homenow.. play until you finish songs listed in that directory (you can compare path's minus the filename itself)
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13:13:18adi|homewhen you finish that directory.. choose a new random #
13:13:32earHurtstwo probs
13:13:58earHurtsone, to find the tpos we have to read the mpeg (at least the id3 part)
13:14:17earHurtsthat's expensive
13:14:40earHurtstwo, we can have >1 works per directory
13:15:20adi|homeif you have >1 works per direcoty you have no choice but to read the id3 tags.. so you are screwed no matter what.
13:15:50adi|homenow.. lets say we have 3 works in a single direcoty
13:15:53adi|homeworks a, b, c
13:15:56earHurtsin dir bach concerti: work 1 track 1 tpos 1/4... w1 t4 tpos 4/4... w2 t1 tpos 1/3....
13:16:04adi|homewould you want them played in sorted order... or
13:16:23adi|homea, <some work from another direcoty>, b, <work from antoerh dir> etc...
13:16:26adi|homeor just a, b, c
13:16:29earHurtsi'd shuffle the works but not the movements in each work
13:16:59adi|homewould you shuffle works across compossers?
13:17:27adi|homeokay... then you have to break out the works into subdirs
13:17:43adi|homeif you don't you don't know at what point you are dealing with a diff composer or a diff work
13:17:56adi|homeunless you read the id3 tags as i said
13:18:12earHurtsyeah, you need to read the tags
13:18:19earHurtstpos, at least
13:18:34adi|homenow.. let me just see if i get this
13:18:44adi|homeyou would present the user with 3 options now.
13:18:51adi|home1. play the playlist straight
13:18:57adi|home2. play the random shuffled playlist
13:19:16adi|home3. play the playlist by artist/composer and album/work?
13:19:27adi|homenamely.. all of bach, then all of leintz
13:19:51earHurts3. play shuffled except for movements in a larger work
13:20:03adi|home_and_ 4
13:20:18adi|homeplay shuffled works within the artist
13:20:28adi|homenamely.. all of bach's works randomly
13:20:40adi|homeor all of bachs and brahms work's randomly mixed
13:20:50earHurtswe don't need your three, because we can dynamically create a playlist at whatever level in the dir hierarchy
13:21:06earHurtsmy hierarchy anyway
13:22:07earHurtsclassical/baroque/bach/goldberg variations
13:22:40adi|homeright.. but you can't just dynamically create a playlist at any level..
13:22:51earHurtssure I can
13:22:57adi|homebecause if you do it at bach/ you get his movements randomly.. fine
13:23:03earHurtsdynamic playlist, recurse subdirs
13:23:09adi|homeif you do it at baroque you get all the barogue
13:23:32adi|homebut how do you differentiate between random composer and random composer AND album
13:24:37earHurtsI don't understand
13:25:07adi|hometrying to find a better way to state it.. just a moment
13:25:53adi|homelets say we have classical/baroque
13:26:03adi|homei don't know classicall.. so im inventing here :)
13:26:14adi|homeand in that we have bach, mozart, and harry
13:26:37adi|homenow.. i want to listen to all of bach's works in random order
13:26:54adi|homeso i hear all the goldberg variations
13:27:02earHurtsyou start your playlist in the bach dir
13:27:15adi|homebut _now_ i want to hear harry's works
13:27:18adi|homeno prob.. same thing
13:27:48adi|homefinally.. i want to hear a work of harry's then a work of bach's then a work of harry's again (lets assume that that is random)
13:27:55adi|homehow do i do that?
13:28:10adi|homeyou are only allowing me to randomly play the order of my composers with your recursion
13:28:21earHurtsyou start the plsylist in the lowest common parent dir
13:28:40earHurtsso you get mozart as well, too bad
13:28:45adi|homeie: baroque?
13:28:50adi|homein this case
13:29:09earHurts(mozarts's more classical, but... :)
13:29:15adi|homeokay.. then how do i do all of harry, all of bach and all off mozart..
13:29:28adi|homeyou see what im getting at?
13:29:32earHurtsthe lowest common parent
13:29:41adi|homewhich is baroque ;)
13:29:55adi|homebut you already said that plays random works of those composers, which isn't what i want :)
13:30:06adi|homeokay.. lets think outline.. cause names are confusin..
13:30:07earHurtsI'm ok with random
13:30:17adi|homelets say we have A, B, C
13:30:22earHurtsas long as eaxh work isn't shuffled
13:30:35adi|homeright.. but your going to confuse ppl..
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13:31:38adi|homebecause it doens't make sense why they randomness occurs at the last parent node in the tree no matter where you choose to go random
13:32:01earHurtsbecuase only ordered movements matter to me
13:32:10adi|homeright :) to you
13:32:22adi|homewhat do you tell someone who tries to use this..
13:32:25earHurtsthink of a work of n movements as a song
13:32:28adi|homei mean what are the rules to it?
13:33:00earHurtsimagine a regular song was split into 4 tracks, one for eaxh verse of the song
13:33:15adi|homebasically "this is my work of diff movements".mp3
13:33:25earHurtsuh, yeah
13:33:40earHurtsso I want to shuffle rock
13:34:16earHurtsbut I don't want each verse of stairway to heaven split and played at different times and out of order
13:35:02adi|homei understand what you mean.. im just saying you have to be careful because if you aren't you are going to confuse the heck outta ppl :)
13:35:15earHurtsbut i'm ok with a song by the beatles, then a floyd, then a beatles, then a skynyrd
13:36:00earHurtsthe problem is eaxh verse has a seperate "name"
13:36:24adi|homeno matter what you do (back to 100 lines ago :) ) you have to read the mp3 to get the tag no matter what...
13:36:35earHurts(really a direction how it should played: "fast", "slow", etc.)
13:36:36adi|homeunless you break stuff into subdir's.. as you said you didn't want to
13:37:02earHurtsactually, for mozart each work is in a subdir
13:37:11earHurtsbut that's a pain
13:38:03earHurtsI just had a dunbass idea
13:38:10adi|homei still say keeping an ordered list is best
13:38:12adi|homek.. shoot
13:38:37adi|homebtw.. not trying to be a pain on all this.. just trying to be a sounding board for ya :)
13:38:38earHurtsfake mpgs
13:38:46adi|homei tend to think better in discussion so :)
13:39:02earHurtsno, what you're doing is exactly why I broached the idea here
13:39:03adi|homefake mp3s? doing what?
13:39:10adi|homek ;)
13:39:17earHurtsbeing a continer for real ones
13:39:36adi|homewe call those directories ;)
13:39:55earHurtsyeah, I said a dumbass idea, right?
13:40:24adi|homewell.. keep explaining it.. it might give you/us other ideas
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13:41:26earHurtswho's chi?
13:41:37adi|homenah.. was seeing how long the name tag was :)
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18:23:01scott666anybody here?
18:28:09 Nick Zagor|away is now known as Zagor (
18:28:13Zagori'm here
18:30:07scott666see my menu thing on the list?
18:30:41scott666i havnt gotten any feeback yet
18:30:43Zagorbut a menu reorganisaton is not the difficult thing
18:30:55scott666what is then?
18:31:03Zagorwhat we need is a whole new "think" about how we use buttons in the wps and overall
18:31:36scott666but it would have to be easy enough for users of older versions to pick up
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18:32:04Zagoryes. it must be a noticable improvement, just not "a little better"
18:33:05scott666i defeintly think programmable f2 and f3 should be added
18:33:23Zagoryeah, but a bit more details than a vague "programmable" concept is required
18:34:00scott666i mentioned it in my menu thing
18:34:03Zagorthere are a few well-written proposals alredy. unfortunately i don't have the links right now.
18:34:39scott666well, i supposed mine wasnt that well written
18:35:17Zagorwell, it was a good suggestion for an updated menu layout. but we need to take a bigger look at it.
18:35:38hardeepBagder's proposal here:
18:36:12hardeepZagor: what was the problem you saw in the plugin_get_buffer() call in my patch?
18:36:43Zagorhardeep: i was wrong. it looked like you gave a bad address to the memory.
18:37:51Zagoryou have my blessing to commit it
18:37:52hardeepZagor: would you prefer a playlist viewer to be added as a plugin or a build-in module?
18:38:22Zagora plugin, i think
18:38:33Zagorunless there are strong reasons against
18:38:49hardeepZagor: not really, just need to export all the playlist functions
18:39:28Zagordo we, really?
18:39:50hardeepZagor: oh, i was referring to a dynamic playlist viewer, not for viewing m3u files
18:40:06Zagorah, ok. yeah, that's a different story.
18:41:18Lynx0is there a way to look at m3u files with the text viewer plugin?
18:41:22Zagori'd say we add it as an internal module to start with
18:41:34hardeepLynx0: rename to .txt and view
18:41:36ZagorLynx0: not currently. but that will be added soonish.
18:42:00hardeepZagor: either way is okay
18:42:02Lynx0hardeep: I could have thought of that one :)
18:42:41Zagorhardeep: yeah, i just prefer to not export all those playlist functions in the plugin api until i'm sure we really want that
18:43:01hardeepah, okay
18:45:48scott666hmmmm....thats odd. i seem to have magically lost 30% of my battery
18:46:59Lynx0scott666: is it smaller now ? ;-)
18:47:13scott666*30% of my charge
18:48:49scott666it was at 95% and a i turned it off. turned it back on and its at 63%
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18:56:20scott666now its back up to 75%
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19:18:02diddystar5welcome back Zagor!
19:18:20Zagori'll be away for next week too, though :)
19:21:39diddystar5there are a few // comments in calendar.c!
19:22:41Zagoryeah, some non-policed code has crept in during my absence. i will assimilate it later.
19:33:32HesAhh, just upgraded to a brand new daily build. Plugins rocks.
19:34:21diddystar5Hes: do you own a player or recorder?
19:34:32Zagoranyone tried the new player game?
19:34:40HesRecorder 20 (with a 40G disk)
19:35:48diddystar5i tried it on the simulator
19:37:06diddystar5Zagor: i remember a LONG time ago someone wrote a maze game for the player do you still have it?
19:37:33HesI have an idea for plugins... once a plugin is running, could a special keyboard combination (and an API call from the plugin) 'suspend' the plugin and give the control back to the normal UI thread?
19:37:36Zagorno. was it ever published?
19:38:00HesAnd then, it could be resumed later.
19:38:08ZagorHes: tricky. that would require a lot of logic in the plugin
19:38:22diddystar5humm i don't remember...
19:38:43HesZagor: hm, why? Dang, I though it would have been trivial. 8-)
19:40:30ZagorHes: well the only way to suspend the thread is to save all variables and return, and then resume when called the next time. a callback won't work.
19:41:43Zagoryay, the jackpot game is pretty cool
19:43:03Zagorvery boring, but cool :)
19:43:13Heshm, would an alternative be saving the stack of the plugin, or having a separate stack space?
19:44:02Zagorwell the plugins run in the gui thread and so use the gui thread stack. we'd have to run them in a new thread or make nasty stack tricks.
19:44:21Hes(which remainds me of something - I wonder how long it takes before someone makes a stack-smashing exploit that runs SH-1 code from say, id3 tags 8-] )
19:44:42HesI guess I was thinking of nasty stack tricks. 8-)
19:45:03Zagorshould be too easy outside of plugins, actually
19:45:18diddystar5zagor: i found that old game in the mail archive
19:45:24Zagori think you should start with describing what you want to achieve :)
19:45:38Zagordiddystar5: ok, nice
19:47:59HesIt could be cool to be able to switch songs or tune volume while a plugin is running (for example in a middle of a good, long game 8-)
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19:52:31ZagorHes: agreed.
19:52:37diddystar5gotta go
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19:55:41HesI've been wondering if the current charging algorithm still sucks badly on some hardware/batteries, or is the init code still bust...
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19:56:17Hesand if people have really been using the rockbox charger or not so far.
19:56:35HesOnce they flash they're almost forced to do so.
19:59:49Zagoryes. i guess there is an unsolved issue with the flash.
19:59:58Zagorhowever charging seems to work fine for me
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20:50:56adi|homeZagor you around?
20:51:59adi|homeim trying to fix the build warnins on the simulator...
20:52:22adi|homei can fix it for linux.. but it just causes more on Windows because of diff types.
20:52:24Zagorah, that's a bit messy. i don't want #ifdefs around each function
20:52:57adi|homeother problem is that if we don't have 2 diff #defins for win/lin then we don't build proper anyways
20:53:08Zagori think the proper fix is to change rockbox read() etc to use the ssize_t etc types
20:53:30Zagorthat makes it more POSIX compliant too
20:53:31adi|homewell.. that will still cause build errors on windows
20:53:45adi|homei think anywyas
20:54:01adi|homei think.. not sure.. ill have to play with it later..
20:54:27adi|homeeither way.. we would need ssize_t, size_t, off_t
20:55:15adi|homeare those just defined as types somewhere?
20:57:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:58:43adi|homeso basically we would just do #define ssize_t int
20:59:29Zagorno, we should use typedefs
20:59:52Zagorbut I'm not sure exactly how I want this. it's a little complicated.
21:01:54adi|homewell... would it be along the way that time_t is defined in firmware/include/sys/timeb.h
21:22:01Zagoreither that or a special types.h
21:23:30 Quit alexandre (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:27:16hardeepanyone up for testing a new feature?
21:28:23scott666what/where is it?
21:29:12hardeepDynamic playlist viewer. Binaries/patch can be found at:
21:29:32hardeepAccessible from Menu->Playlist Options->View Dynamic Playlist
21:29:35 Join _aLF [0] (
21:30:05hardeepYou can "PLAY" a new track, and ON+PLAY gives you Delete and Move
21:30:36scott666viewer fm seems to think its an mp3
21:31:33hardeepscott666: it's a firmware binary, just rename to ajbrec.ajz and copy to your root folder... or ROLO into it if you prefer
21:32:11scott666yeah but on the site its viewer-fm.mp3
21:32:15scott666shouldnt it be ajz?
21:32:56hardeepscott666: bizarre, IE is renaming it to .mp3, it's saved as .ajz
21:33:10hardeepscott666: just manually rename
21:33:13scott666i did
21:38:54scott666can it say 'playlist empty' instead of 'error'?
21:44:42 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (
21:45:19scott666move is a little confusing
21:46:39scott666it seems logical to move it one down to me for some reason
21:47:26scott666maybe add options 'move up one' and 'move down one'
21:50:07scott666other than that its great! i wish there was something similar for .m3u files
22:14:59[IDC]DragonZagor, do you read?
22:18:58[IDC]DragonOK, different subject: is anybody using mIRC?
22:20:28[IDC]DragonHow do I quote people's nick when addressing them? So far I type it in.
22:20:41scott666im using mIRC
22:21:12[IDC]Dragontell me some tricks
22:21:16scott666dont konw any
22:22:00scott666if you click on someones name it highlights it in the user list
22:22:19scott666if you double click it you get a new private window
22:22:25scott666if you right click it you get options
22:23:06[IDC]DragonBut I havent't fount how to use that name
22:23:15scott666use it?
22:23:30[IDC]Dragonscot666: I mean you.
22:23:34[IDC]Dragonlike that.
22:24:01mecrawtry typing "z" then hit tab, "Zagor" shows up on my client
22:24:07scott666i dont know what slap is but it interests me
22:24:23scott666or [+tab = [IDC]Dragon
22:24:25*[IDC]Dragon slaps scott666 around a bit with a large trout
22:24:32*scott666 slaps [IDC]Dragon around a bit with a large trout
22:24:34[IDC]Dragonthat's slap
22:24:38scott666yes it is
22:24:57*scott666 wonders how you do those
22:25:09*scott666 says, "oh."
22:25:14*[IDC]Dragon test
22:25:31*[IDC]Dragon astonished
22:26:13scott666if you type /emote it eats what you write
22:26:35scott666ahh, anything with a / in front, i see
22:26:50[IDC]Dragonwasn't eaten
22:27:23scott666well mine is
22:27:53[IDC]Dragonis is possible to watch for the own name to appear, then make a sound or so?
22:28:11[IDC]Dragon(if you're not focused on the chat)
22:32:16scott666go to options>sounds
22:33:12 Join tracktheripper [0] (
22:33:37tracktheripperhi scotty
22:34:11scott666hey! i had an idea
22:34:39scott666does someone want to make a plugin with me so i can learn what the hell im doing while still trying to be useful?
22:35:02tracktheripperwell i cant' help u there since i cannot program :(
22:35:25scott666so learn
22:35:36tracktheripperall i know is a bit of BASIC
22:35:47scott666i can program, i just dont understand the rockbox specific stuff
22:36:08tracktheripperscott i was browsing some old requests. the "Make the LCD like a PDA touchscreen" made me laugh :))
22:36:49scott666wish there was a 'rejected: youre an idiot' option
22:37:23tracktheripperwhat about "Make the normal Recorder pick up FM like the FM recorder"
22:37:44[IDC]Dragonscott666: how about starting from the hello world example, then work it upwards?
22:38:01scott666i looked at hello world
22:38:18[IDC]Dragondon't say it's too tough
22:38:25scott666but theres just a _tiny_ gap between hello world and tetris
22:38:47[IDC]Dragonwell, pich something intermediate first.
22:39:22scott666i did that in python
22:39:32scott666that was a fun language...
22:40:02scott666oh! i did that in C++ too
22:40:06tracktheripperI have a good idea for a game!!
22:40:16[IDC]Dragonactually, rockboy and plugins ar no good starter, since it's hard to debug.
22:40:17tracktheripperHow about a basic "Fruit Machine" game for the Recorder?
22:40:33scott666wtf is fruit machine?
22:40:49scott666you have to make fruit?
22:41:08scott666'rockboy'? that sounds dirty and illegal
22:41:11tracktheripperits like what you see in amusement arcades
22:41:41tracktheripperoh look it up on Google
22:41:56[IDC]Dragonrockbox, that was a typo
22:42:59[IDC]DragonZagor: still not listening?
22:43:12scott666slot machine
22:43:45scott666crazy brits :-p
22:44:11scott666why dont people use :-b?
22:44:33scott666or :-■
22:44:50[IDC]Dragonthat looks difficult.
22:46:17tracktherippercheers for that
22:51:14[IDC]DragonZagor: one last try befor I go to bed.
22:51:41scott666timezones make statement like that very odd
22:51:46scott666cause its 4pm here
22:52:08[IDC]DragonI've been sleeping at 4pm, too.
22:53:18[IDC]DragonOK, I'm out.
22:53:23 Quit [IDC]Dragon ()
22:57:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:07:01Zagorouch, back now. too late...
23:07:44mecrawcan we add building the UCLs to the default build process?
23:08:27mecraw"we" meaning "not me" since I'm not too proficient with make
23:11:00Zagormecraw: yes, but it requires the ucl packer, which is a separate project
23:11:18Zagornot a big deal, just we haven't done that
23:16:00 Quit tracktheripper ("Leaving")
23:16:33Zagor"the terms of the Archo warranty as currently displayed on their website state that installation of any unauthorized software voids the warranty." can anyone find this? the website is apparently designed to only work on msie...
23:17:35scott666ill look
23:25:57scott666Q: How can I upgrade the size of the hard drive in my Jukebox FM Recorder?
23:25:57scott666A: Archos does not offer hard drive size upgrades.
23:25:57scott666There are other third-party companies that do offer this service. If you should decide to have this done to your unit, your factory warranty will be voided.
23:25:57DBUGEnqueued KICK scott666
23:25:57scott666Archos does not support units with modified hardware or firmware.
23:26:24Zagordo you have a link?
23:26:46scott666its probably in all hte FAQs though
23:27:43Zagorfuzzy wording. "does not support" doesn't have to mean "will refuse warranty on", although at least in the case of hardware it most commonly does
23:28:19Zagorit's interesting that they at all mention the possibility of modified firmware...
23:29:15scott666Archos is currently working on also supporting WMA format for all Jukebox players.
23:29:36Zagorright. and i have a nice bridge to sell you...
23:30:05scott666The main user group for the Jukebox can be found here:
23:30:34Zagorthe recorder (not fm) faq states: "All other formats WAV, WMA, OGG, Etc. will not be support on the Jukebox Recorder product line."
23:32:27 Join tracktheripper [0] (
23:32:50tracktheripperHow do touchscreens on LCDs work?
23:33:33tracktheripperas in how does the glass magically know where the stylus is?
23:33:45Zagortracktheripper: google is your friend
23:34:15scott666very old ones little sensor dots
23:35:35tracktheripperyes Zagor
23:35:40tracktheripperwhatever you say Zagor
23:35:45tracktheripperGoogle is my friend Zagor
23:35:56Zagorit's simply a better way to get better answers
23:36:34tracktheripperYes Zagor
23:36:44tracktheripperill try typing Zagor into Google and see what that brings up :-)
23:37:01Zagori'm #2
23:37:10Zagor#1 is a wacko italian comic
23:37:18tracktheripperoh right
23:37:20 Join Nibbler [0] (
23:37:22tracktheripperi thought u was Sweedish
23:38:28Zagori am. i used this nick for many years before someone pointed out there was a comic with the same name.
23:39:32scott666sourceforge cant make '÷'s
23:39:47tracktheripperZaggor is there ever gonna be a feature where you can make/erase folders and store recordings/playlists in the folder of your choice?
23:40:05Zagorprobably, yes
23:40:50tracktheripperand is there gonna be a way you can alter the brightness of the backlight?
23:41:18Zagorprobably not
23:41:43Zagorthe only way to do that is to rapidly turn it on and off. too much cpu work for too little gain.
23:42:28tracktheripperi asked that because ive noticed when it goes out it fades out
23:42:52Zagorthat is not done in software
23:44:25tracktheripperthe request "Make the Player's LCD like the Recorders LCD" is funny
23:44:35scott666youre kidding
23:44:42tracktheripperim not i
23:44:45tracktheripperill show u the link
23:46:16Zagorit's not funny, it's a waste of everybodies time
23:47:10scott666yeah, that page is way too long
23:49:01tracktheripperwhat isnt funny?
23:49:16scott666stupid suggestions
23:49:19Zagorwhy is wasting our time funny?
23:49:41Hespeople filling up nonsense requests is not funny after the first or second time someone does that...
23:49:44tracktheripperi didn't say it was
23:49:59tracktheripperi never file funny requests
23:51:01elinenbeZagor: anything new that you have been working on?
23:52:07Zagorno, i've mostly spend the last two days catching up :)
23:52:27elinenbeZagor: I like the new daily build tables...
23:52:28tracktheripperZagor do "Invert" for the Player as well :-)
23:53:25elinenbeZagor: I think that you need to update the features page as well...
23:53:28scott666that option doesnt work quite right for me, i get slightly dimmer lines going up and down
23:53:58Zagorelinenbe: what's missing?

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