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#rockbox log for 2003-07-26

00:00:24[IDC]DragonAh, now I get it. the other one is fixed?
00:01:13[IDC]DragonWe'd better use that one then.
00:04:18[IDC]DragonI need to think a bit more on how and where my drive works without being ready.
00:04:36[IDC]DragonFollowing that old code, I mean.
00:04:45Zagoryeah, that seems very strange to me
00:05:04[IDC]DragonWorked for 50% of the people or so.
00:05:25[IDC]DragonAnd gives the famous 3 sec resume.
00:05:53Zagoryes. it would be good to get that back for the people it works for.
00:06:17[IDC]DragonOK, another day. Thanks alot so far.
00:06:39[IDC]Dragon(It just became my birthday 5 minutes ago)
00:06:48Zagorwooo, congrats!
00:07:01[IDC]DragonBetter not, at my age.
00:07:38[IDC]DragonI'm now a mid-30s guy :-(
00:12:08[IDC]DragonOne thing about the mask value: I strongly urge to use that only within inits, not at runtime.
00:12:42[IDC]DragonIf a thread is accessing the flash, my programming will be disturbed.
00:13:11[IDC]DragonSo this is a _BIG_ no-no.
00:13:53[IDC]DragonOr I have to disable interrupts, I don't like that.
00:13:53Zagorit's a big nono code-style-wise too, so that should not become a problem
00:14:49[IDC]DragonWell, I don't see a code style issue with flash accesses.
00:15:27Zagori do. if we need to know a mask value for normal processing, this should be read out to a variable.
00:16:07[IDC]Dragonyeah, but this is minor, imho.
00:16:24Zagorperhaps. but i'm pedantic :)
00:16:47[IDC]DragonYeah, I've learned that. Must be in the family.
00:17:42[IDC]DragonWell, old people like me should go to bed now.
00:18:04Zagorok. good night!
00:18:24[IDC]Dragon(Party is tomorrow, em, today in the evening)
00:18:55 Quit [IDC]Dragon ()
00:23:53 Join bombadil [0] (
00:29:03 Join Dragania [0] (
00:29:19Draganiahey..can someone help me?
00:29:31 Quit Dragania (Client Quit)
00:36:06 Join London_blade [0] (
00:38:01scott666which archos do you have?
00:38:06London_bladerecorder 10
00:40:13London_bladeyo Zagor
00:40:51London_bladeIve read that flange is achieved by rapidly altering the pitch up and down in quick succession
00:41:00London_bladeso it may be possible on the Archos since it can pitchshift
00:41:29Zagoreach pitch change produces a loud click
00:42:21London_bladewell my Archos doesnt click when i alter the pitch
00:42:58scott666so make a patch
00:43:03Zagorperhaps not a click, but the sound is briefly interrupted. this means we can't do it continuously
00:43:10London_bladeoh righty
00:43:14scott666so make a patch
00:43:29London_bladewhen ive brushed up on my C skills
00:43:31scott666i was scrolled up, didnt see it
00:46:32 Quit _aLF ("bye")
00:46:41London_bladeZagor ive noticed when the backlight is on and the HD spins up the backlight briefly alters brightness
00:46:44London_bladeIs this normal?
00:47:30London_bladeWhat is the screen resolution of the Recorder and Player as I wanna try something
00:47:47Zagorrecorder is 112x64. player does not have graphics.
00:48:11London_bladeoh right cool. Cant the entire matrix of character cells be used as a graphical area?
00:49:16Zagorno. you need to redefine chars and use them. and you can only redefine 4/8 chars (old/new model)
00:49:26London_bladeoh cool
00:49:33Zagorfor player, that is. recorder uses a graphic display and thus has no limits.
00:49:40London_bladeI wanted to do a very basic "aquarium" screensaver
00:49:54London_bladebasic fish moving around in a "tank" design
00:50:57London_bladei was gonna do a 1bit image on Paint just to see what a 1bit image would like on those dimensions
00:51:38hardeephmmm, i'm seeing the same problem reported on the mailing list where the battery level is showing as 0 even though it isn't
00:51:50hardeepwhen i ROLO it sets it correctly
00:52:11Zagoryes, it seems we've changed something to the worse with the poewr code
00:52:22hardeepalso, every now and then, the resume "ask" screen is cancelling on it's own even though I didn't press anything
00:54:30Zagoryou are running flash, right?
00:54:37hardeepZagor: no
00:54:41 Join _aLF [0] (
00:58:14***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:58:25hardeepZagor: can I commit that plugin change, or were you making changes to it?
00:58:36Zagorno, go ahead
00:59:06 Quit mecraw ("Trillian (")
01:04:03 Quit London_blade ("Leaving")
01:04:13 Join tracktheripper [0] (
01:05:35tracktheripperhi zagor
01:06:23tracktheripperZagor when u coming to London?
01:06:47Zagorno idea
01:06:52Zagorno plans
01:07:29Zagori'm off to bed. see you, guys
01:07:30 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
01:08:41 Quit tracktheripper (Client Quit)
01:13:56scott666_blade> scottt
01:33:37 Quit _aLF ("bye")
01:45:50 Join midknight2k3 [0] (
01:46:15midknight2k3HELLO? HELLO? IS-THIS−− THE−−−−−− ROCKBOX−−CHANNEL?!?!
02:12:13edxOk but its also 2 AM an i gotta get up at 7... so.. uhm.. how shall I say... I gotta leave you now
02:12:31edxgood nite
02:12:37midknight2k3no problemo
02:12:37DBUGEnqueued KICK midknight2k3
02:12:37midknight2k3good night
02:12:48midknight2k3change your name to "edx`sleep"
02:13:06edxwell i would have left the irc server...
02:13:12edxno matter
02:13:15 Nick edx is now known as edx`zZz (
02:13:18midknight2k3you're leaving?
02:13:28midknight2k3i wanted it to be sleep
02:13:31edx`zZzill stay... sleeping
02:13:40midknight2k3i want it sleep
02:13:41 Nick edx`zZz is now known as edx`SLEEEP (
02:13:42midknight2k3not zzz
02:13:46midknight2k3thnk god
02:13:48 Nick edx`SLEEEP is now known as edx`sleep (
02:13:50midknight2k3good nite
02:13:54midknight2k3there we go
02:19:34 Quit bombadil ("Client exiting")
02:42:52 Join BoD[] [0] (
02:46:00 Quit midknight2k3 ()
02:58:06 Join derfel_ [0] (
02:58:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:58:28derfel_hello all
02:58:54derfel_does anyone know how the latest "calendar.rock" runs?
02:59:24BoD[]"how" does it run ?
02:59:34derfel_I don't see it in the menus
02:59:53BoD[]maybe you just have to open the rock file
03:00:11BoD[]i mean ... navigate to the file and click play on it
03:00:21derfel_how do you open a rock file from within the menus?
03:01:12derfel_thank you'
03:01:24derfel_I thought only rocks can be run from a menu somewhere
03:03:08BoD[]nop:) that's the beaty of it
03:08:03derfel_this is cool
03:08:16derfel_two of them don't work tho: viewer.rock and jackpot.rock
03:08:36derfel_I get "Can't find entry point"
03:09:18BoD[]viewer.rock cannot work because it needs an argument (the file to view)
03:09:35BoD[]for jackpot I'm not sure ... what model do you have ?
03:09:48derfel_I have a fm recorder
03:09:56derfel_I am using the simulator rightn ow
03:10:08BoD[]ok I believe (but I'm not sure) that jackpot is for the players
03:10:25derfel_ahh..o well..that sucks for me :)
03:10:32BoD[]yeah ;)
03:10:49derfel_this firmware is soooooooooooo much better than that crap that comes with the archos
03:10:56BoD[]hh ;) yeah
03:11:05BoD[]too bad Rockbox don't do hardware too ;)
03:11:27derfel_hopefully one day archos will by rockbox, then they will all retire early
03:11:53BoD[]humm i'm not sure ;)
03:12:12derfel_not sure of what? if they would be able to retire?
03:12:44BoD[]would they want to retire??
03:13:07derfel_when you have the option, things are a lot less stressful!
03:13:31BoD[]but you retire from a job :)
03:13:36BoD[]rockbox is not a job
03:15:19derfel_o well...thanks a lot for your help...
03:15:57 Quit derfel_ (Remote closed the connection)
03:46:29 Join diddystar5 [0] (
04:01:50 Quit hardeep ("BitchX: made with real honey.")
04:03:39 Quit Hadaka (Remote closed the connection)
04:03:43 Join Naked [0] (
04:03:56 Nick Naked is now known as Hadaka (
04:04:32diddystar5naked hehe
04:04:46BoD[]i have to go to bed now
04:04:56 Quit BoD[] ("zgloubpz")
04:57:57 Quit diddystar5 ("Gotta Go!")
04:58:19***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:02:45 Join JasonG [0] (
05:04:12JasonGanybody here?
05:06:41JasonGare you one of the developers?
05:07:17JasonGhmm well, i wanted to thank them
05:07:34JasonGi just bought an archos and was about to return it until i did a google search on a whim
05:07:43scott666send a mail to the list
05:08:05scott666rockbox really is exellent
05:08:19JasonGthe original FM recorder firmware can't even randomize above entry 20 in a playlist
05:08:26JasonGsince that was a feature i wanted most of all, i was going to return it
05:09:07scott666the radio features are still a bit lacking at the moment
05:09:14JasonGi noticed, but i can wait =)
05:09:28JasonGi just wanted to be able to randomize more than 2 cds, lol
05:09:31JasonGnow i can randomize 100
05:09:34scott666thats the great thing about open source, it'll get there eventually
05:09:52JasonGI do this shit for a living too, embedded programming and hardware development
05:10:00scott666know C?
05:10:11JasonGthat's 80% of my experience
05:10:18JasonGlow level C and assembly
05:10:28scott666then get working! theres noever too many developers
05:10:47JasonGi want to know how they did so much without having any of the original source
05:11:07JasonGunless the ICs are pretty self-contained
05:11:12scott666read the mauling list archives
05:11:23JasonGlooks like a lot of the features are canned, like the decoding and power managemtn
05:11:51scott666all encoding is done by the MAS chio
05:12:03JasonGthis was one of the most recent things I designed:
05:12:07scott666decoding too
05:12:44JasonGi have to convert all of my oggs and wavs now =)
05:14:49scott666or reprogram the MAS...but theres no documentation
05:14:59JasonGoh, it's programmable?
05:15:16JasonGwho's the manufacturer, or what's MAS stand for?
05:15:31scott666the manucaturer is micronas
05:15:41scott666and we have no documenation at all on how to program it
05:15:52scott666its all at
05:16:19JasonGsweet, i'm at home
05:17:31JasonGlol, no parts #s on the ics
05:17:38JasonGoh wait, nmd
05:19:28scott666but do they say how to program it?
05:21:08JasonGhmm, i wonder if rockbox is programming it or using some default programming in the mas
05:22:23JasonGlol, i see where all of the audio features come from now
05:22:56scott666i suggest you join the mailing list
05:22:59JasonGi see how they do it with a 12 mhz processor now
05:23:06JasonGi joined
05:23:15JasonGthis is the kind of shit i love working on
05:58:18 Join Bluechip [0] (
05:58:28BluechipHi all
05:58:45Bluechipanyone know why the simulator has stopped compiling?
05:58:57BluechipI just get "Error 255" !!??
06:04:53 Part Bluechip
06:06:50 Quit JasonG (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
06:58:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:10:52 Nick edx`sleep is now known as edx (
07:11:44 Nick edx is now known as edx`afk (
08:05:18 Quit Hadaka (Remote closed the connection)
08:05:20 Join Naked [0] (
08:05:32 Nick Naked is now known as Hadaka (
08:58:24***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:13:50 Join earHurts [0] (
09:15:13earHurtsI have excellent new!
09:29:52PsycoXulwhat kinda new?
09:38:22earHurtsremember my charging problem?
09:38:47PsycoXulhmm, not really
09:39:06earHurtswell, battery problem
09:39:28earHurtsI was down to as little as 1.5 hours per charge
09:40:11earHurtsthen we did the experiment last night: charger voltage as reported by the debug screen
09:44:30earHurtsWell, it's fixed. I've been ruuning contiously for the last 8 hours
09:45:02earHurtscontinuosly, even
10:21:01earHurts8:40 now {)
10:58:25***No seen item changed, no save performed.
11:18:21 Join Galik [0] (~galik@
11:40:14earHurtsis anybody there?
11:40:29earHurtsdoes any hear?
11:40:41earHurtsdoes anybody see what I see?
11:52:59 Join _aLF [0] (
12:01:47 Join Mine78 [0] (
12:02:21Mine78Problem: I used the last daily build for the recorder, all works except plugins: it says "incompatible version"
12:02:24Mine78anyone can help ?
12:05:20_aLFyou have to get the .rock of the same version
12:05:52Mine78but I did
12:05:56Mine78I took the FULL file
12:06:33_aLFarg, I don't know then
12:07:07Mine78Now it works, I copied the complete folder, maybe something missing
12:07:10Mine78another thing
12:07:23Mine78I tried to flash the recorder following step by step instructions
12:07:42Mine78but when it is going to flash it says "version mismatch" or a similar thing
12:07:53Mine78I backedup my firmware
12:08:02Mine78but the next step doesn't work
12:11:01earHurtsget a daily build that's a few days older
12:11:42earHurtsmy fm has been running on batteries continuously for the last TEN AND ONE HALF HOURS!
12:13:11earHurtsyes, I'm actually beginning to worry I've overloaded the battery or something
12:13:22earHurtswhat time does archos claim?
12:13:36 Join tracktheripper [0] (
12:14:52earHurtstrack, you have am fm?
12:15:47earHurtshey star wars kid is sueing!
12:18:29tracktheripperi wish i did
12:18:33tracktheripperi have a plain recorder 10
12:18:52Mine78can anyone tell me how the VIEWER plugin works ?
12:20:23tracktherippersorry don';t know
12:20:54earHurtsit views .txt files
12:21:14earHurtsplaying it alone doesn't do anything
12:21:22tracktheripperi thought it views ID3 tags
12:21:36tracktheripperearHurts when can we have an ID3 tag editor plugin?
12:21:56earHurtsjzoss is doing the editor
12:22:21earHurtswhy not edit on your pc?
12:23:41Mine78how can I use it with txt and not alone ?
12:23:50tracktheripperwell sometimes its
12:23:58tracktheripper convieninet to edit tags on the fly
12:25:17earHurtsplay any .txt file
12:25:33earHurtsok, on the fly i can see
12:27:17 Join Zagor [242] (
12:28:12tracktheripperhello Zagor
12:28:22Mine78Hi zagor
12:28:32earHurtslet's all pester Zagor with questions! Me first!
12:28:42tracktheripperno, mine first
12:28:44Mine78I have a Sanity check fail
12:29:01Mine78firmware version 1.28
12:29:03earHurtsok, let the insane guy go first
12:29:30Mine78nothing to do with that ?
12:29:54tracktheripperZagor when I tried to record a 30Mb file using the spdif all I got was a load of crackle
12:30:04ZagorMine78: what's a sanity check fail?
12:30:24Zagortracktheripper: as I said, there are lots of things that can be wrong with digital recordning
12:30:31earHurtsthe result of too much existential ennui?
12:30:37Mine78while trying to flash my firmware
12:30:50Mine78I hit F1 and I got the sanity check fail
12:30:55ZagorMine78: ah. did you read the flash docs?
12:31:41Mine78I suppose I have to wait something is programmed, isn't it ?
12:32:35Zagorno, sanity check fail simply means "you haven't read and followed the instructions"
12:33:09earHurtsZagor, any idea the expected battery life of a fully charged fm battery?
12:33:25ZagorearHurts: 8-10 hours iirc
12:33:35Mine78If the sanity check fails, you have the wrong kind of boot ROM and are out of luck by now, sorry.
12:33:40Mine78this is what is written
12:34:00earHurtsok, I was worried. I'm hitting eleven hours in seven minutes
12:34:05Zagorwhat kind of rom do you have?
12:34:21Zagorno, that's version. what kind? (hw info)
12:34:55Zagorthen it should work, and the problem is more likely you haven't prepared the files as per the instructions
12:35:19Mine78I dumped my rom
12:35:21Zagor*or* it could be you have the rare "special" boot rom that we cannot upgrade right now
12:35:35Mine78and followed step by step
12:35:36Zagorin any case, dragon is the man to talk to.
12:35:56earHurtsany idea what the voltage level on the fm is when the unit stops?
12:36:03Mine78Thank you !
12:36:05ZagorearHurts: no idea
12:36:19earHurtsdragon's responsive to mail on the list
12:37:09earHurtsthe funny thing is, I was doen to about 1.5 hours until I tinkered with it
12:38:20earHurtshas anyone tried out hoffman's id3 db build?
12:38:57Mine78I think I have the rare firmware. I just retryed all the procedure
12:39:31Mine78Zagor, do you think it will solved ? I look the .avi and got stunned !!! Really fast !!!
12:40:20Zagori don't know. if the special boot rom is as different as dragon says, supporting it will be almost as big an effort as doing the original flash support
12:40:35earHurtsdragon seems very committed to making flash work
12:41:08Zagoryes, but i wouldn't count on him working his butt off to support the last 1% of units
12:41:42Mine78I think you are right :(
12:41:58Mine78can I contact him or will I be ignored ?
12:42:01earHurtsis it a being safe issue? couldn't the special boot just be overwritten?
12:42:03tracktheripperive filed my bug report not
12:42:08tracktherippernow i mean
12:43:08ZagorMine78: he is very responsive, i doubt you will be ignored
12:43:29ZagorearHurts: this boot rom can not be overwritten
12:43:54earHurtsand it's what loads the flash rom. ah
12:44:11Mine78how can I contect him ?
12:44:41earHurtsbut the flash rom is the same as the normal, or no?
12:44:54ZagorearHurts: i don't know
12:45:04ZagorMine78: look up his address in the mail archive
12:45:57earHurtsor he might consider mail to the list more polite?
12:47:01Zagora mail to the list might be more useful for other people too, so it may be the better option
12:47:44earHurtshas any disk spindown code or defaults been changed in the last week or so?
12:48:01Mine78how can I mail the list ?
12:52:00Zagoryou should browse the archive first so you don't repeat an already answered question
12:52:35Mine78thank you
12:53:49 Quit Mine78 ()
12:54:49earHurtsdear lors, eleven hours and still 2.9 volts
12:55:29Zagoris our estimated-time-remaining value good on the fm?
12:55:36 Quit earHurts (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
12:56:33 Quit scott666 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12:57:13 Join earHurts [0] (
12:57:41earHurtsso much for linux stability on pdas
12:57:53Zagorwhich pda?
12:58:01earHurtszaurus 5600
12:58:13earHurtsI always irc from the pda
12:58:24tracktheripperZaggor did u get my bug report?
12:58:24Zagoris it comfortable?
12:58:28***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:58:40earHurtsmoreso than gaim on a w2k box
12:58:44Zagortracktheripper: yes. but i think linus will look at it.
12:59:08tracktheripperis Linus the recording man?
12:59:15earHurtsactually it's pretty cool. I'm reclining on my bed; sometimes I soak my feet in the tub
13:00:01earHurtsit's like reading a tiny paperback, with characters named "Zagor" and "track"
13:00:22tracktheripperwhat u on about earhurts
13:00:35earHurtsI irc on a handheld pda
13:00:43tracktheripperoh righty
13:00:49earHurtsI don't irc on anything else
13:01:01tracktheripperu know what would be agood idea?
13:01:07earHurtsremember the "n"s?
13:01:27tracktheripperplug a webcam into the usb and use the LCD as a viewfinder :))
13:01:44earHurtsso I see myself?
13:01:54earHurtsno usb
13:02:09earHurtsneeds a cf card, and then I'd lose wifi
13:02:37tracktheripperearhurts what u mean all the Ns?
13:02:55earHurtstheoretically, I could vnc to my pc, and use its webcam
13:03:17earHurtswhen I first irc'd here, i had a buggy pda
13:03:19tracktheripperearhurts this is my fave request
13:03:29earHurtsthe n key was hypersensistive
13:03:41earHurtswhat's your fave?
13:05:43earHurtshang on
13:06:51tracktheripperdid u get it?
13:07:35earHurtswonder how hard that would be
13:08:13tracktheripperwhat is the request?
13:13:17earHurtsyou hear about star wars kid?
13:13:23earHurtshe's suing
13:17:24tracktheripperi think Bjorn and co could be sued by Archos :-)
13:19:04earHurtsreverse engineering is legal
13:19:05tracktheripperor Archos could be sued by Bjorn and co :-)
13:19:34earHurtsbesides, rb increases their market share
13:19:45earHurtsprobably quite a bit
13:20:28tracktheripperwe need sliders
13:21:02earHurtssliders maybe
13:24:40tracktheripperwhat "Invert" for the Player? :)
13:25:59tracktheripperEarhurts do an "Invert" for the Player :-)
13:26:30tracktheripperif the Recorder can have it why not the Player? :-(
13:27:37tracktheripperits a simple question :D
13:29:10earHurtsare you serious?
13:29:33Zagortracktheripper: we've answered this a dozen times: it's not possible.
13:29:44earHurtsthe player has onlt two lines, right?
13:29:55earHurtsand a bitmapped font
13:30:36earHurtswe can't directly control player pixels, righr?
13:30:43tracktheripperright, im off to write the "software tuner" now
13:31:45earHurts12 hours continous play on one charge in nine minutes
13:36:43ZagorearHurts: sounds good
13:36:58earHurtswhat? the battery?
13:37:16earHurtsyeah, it's curious
13:37:56earHurtsI've NEVER had it last this long
13:38:33earHurts(which is also what my gf says)
13:38:40Zagorboo :)
13:39:54earHurtsAnd no I've been up 22.5 hours taking battery metrics
13:41:45 Quit tracktheripper ("Leaving")
13:41:58earHurtslost several when the pda excel abended on me
13:42:35earHurtsstill, 2e points of data over 1w hours survived
13:44:18earHurtsand to make it a good test, it's been the same album all 1w hours
13:45:04earHurtsfrustratingly, the first half of an opera
13:52:59Zagorover and over again?
13:54:58earHurtson repeat
13:55:51earHurtsand vbr 126, so assume 8 hours for 192
14:02:31Zagori wouldn't say it's that linear
14:02:50Zagormore frequent disk spinup is only a small increase in power consumption
14:03:24earHurtsi was assuming disk usage was the main drain
14:03:46Zagorwell it depends how you look at it
14:04:05Zagorthe unit draws ~100 mA always, with disk spun down
14:04:51Zagorspinning up the disk twice per minute thus does not draw twice as much power as spinning up only once
14:05:25Zagorsince there is always the base consumption which actually is the biggest (until you do really much disk access, of course)
14:05:30earHurtswhat's 100 mA in volts?
14:05:47Zagorit's not. those are two different entities. mA is current
14:06:12earHurtsi thought you'd sat that
14:07:48earHurtsthe disk is noiser
14:08:03earHurtsit's ckick-thumping on spindown
14:08:13earHurtsthat's new, I think
14:11:43earHurtslittle bug in debug battery, page three
14:12:23earHurtswhen est. remaining is < 3 digits, we get pixel trash after the number
14:12:51earHurtsor is it a clipped charcter more likely
14:13:46Zagorah, that page sort of assumes a smaller-than-default font :)
14:15:20earHurtsand i use atadore
14:15:34earHurtswhich is > default
14:22:29earHurts down to 2.73 volts
14:24:36earHurtsyou're writing code to allow plugins to grab the mpeg memory
14:42:24earHurtsI suspect the plugins are going to want data structures
14:42:38earHurtsI nearly wanted an avl tree recently
14:43:00Zagorthey are free to
14:43:11earHurtsthe data structure will want allocators
14:43:19Zagorthey are free to that aswell
14:43:32earHurtsif not mallocing from the system, from a static pool
14:44:01earHurtsyou wrote a malloc implementatio. is it linked in?
14:44:47earHurtsi'd rather see one good one, than a bunch of adhocs
14:45:16Zagoryes, but i don't want to add a lot of stuff to rockbox just because some plugins might maybe want to use some of it
14:45:35Zagorthere is plenty of code space for plugins, and a malloc is not complex
14:47:23earHurtsif we could dynamically resize the mpeg buffer, we might also free up memory for more mpeg buffer
14:47:45Zagorwe can, but only at boot.
14:48:28earHurtswhy only at boot? the mas chip needs to know the buffer's extent?
14:48:45Zagorno but the the mpeg thread does...
14:49:31earHurtsi was assuming there's a pointer to start, and a pointer to end, and a pointer to current
14:49:42earHurtslike a streambuf
14:50:25earHurtsbtw, 13 hours, 10 minutes :)
14:50:25Zagorthere is, but the buffer is circular and nearly always full. so we can't change the start or end pointer without interrupting and reloading the mpeg data
14:51:33earHurtsif we moved (say) end back, we'd only have to reload to beginning when current was > end - threshold
14:53:05earHurtshah! I've never seen w% battery before!
14:53:07Zagorwell, current is constantly moving (at ~20KB/s) and "only" reloading part of the buffer still means we have to spin up the disk one extra time.
14:53:26Zagorabove all, there is very little benefit in adding this rather complex system
14:54:16earHurtswhy the extra spinup?
14:54:52earHurtsI mean we jsut move the seek pointer back by however many bytes we need to re-read
14:56:38Zagorright, in the ideal case we'd only have to spin up sooner
14:57:53earHurtsthe next question is, how much statically allocated memory do we have, that isn't used frequently
14:58:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:58:35Zagorthat all depends on your use patterns, of course
15:01:00Zagorbut yes, there is of course static data that is used only rarely that could be saved by using a common buffer.
15:01:24Zagorhowever the gain would be small and the added complexity (== bug risk) big
15:01:57earHurtsvalid point
15:02:39Zagoryou can see all static data in the file
15:03:14earHurtshow can tell its size from the map?
15:04:03Zagorthe third column is size
15:04:36earHurtsthanks, i mean
15:05:11earHurtsbattery is really tailing off, the graph went from linear to a nice curve
15:05:40earHurtsit's the pda. I had the equivalent of num lock on, to enter the battery data
15:06:04earHurtsno seperate number or symbol keys
15:25:50earHurtsall done!
15:26:20earHurts13 hours, 45 minutes
15:53:21 Join Neo [0] (~Neo@
15:53:24Neohey guys
15:53:30Neocan anyone tell mea
15:53:40Neoare the headphones just cheap on the archose
15:53:46Neocasue mine died
15:53:51Neobfore 30 days
15:55:06Neoi need to know today
15:55:56Zagoryes they are pretty cheap. but they are too covered by the warranty so if you liked them and want a new pair, go see your salesman
15:56:40Zagori would however recommend getting new headphones of better quality
15:58:12Neodid urs die?
15:58:19Neoafter a while u got it?
15:58:31Zagori've hardly every used the included headphones
15:58:40Neoo, ok
15:58:52Neootherwise im not having any other problems
15:59:02Neoyeh, they just stopped working
15:59:06Neoi have other headphones
15:59:12Neoto use for now
15:59:22Neoexcept my button is still loosee
16:00:38Neothe play button is loose
16:00:58Zagorso you can remove it, or just so it wiggles?
16:01:20Zagorthat's normal
16:02:48Neoi think i had a problem that when i resume that it wouldnt play but now that my headphones arent woeking then thats probably the reason, i probably just couldnt of heard it
16:03:53Neowhen is rombox comming out?
16:04:09Zagorit's out
16:04:29Neohow do i get it?
16:05:07Neoi get the .ucl?
16:05:17Neoand use that instead of the ajz?
16:05:23Zagorsee the docs page on the web site. "how to flash rockbox on your archos"
16:05:34Neoim reading it now
16:06:03Neoso theres a possibility that it could erase my archos?
16:06:31Zagornot if you follow the instructions
16:07:11Neoso no more daily builds?
16:11:25 Join Bluechip [0] (
16:11:36Neotrying to install rombox
16:11:46BluechipAfternoon all :)
16:13:06Bluechipanybody got any ideas on how to fix the simulators?
16:15:39Neoi get an ata error -32
16:16:32Neobut it seems to work
16:21:06Bluechipthink they all gone away :(
16:21:11Neoits seeming to work
16:21:19Neodo u have rombox blue chip?
16:21:30Bluechipmine is not flashable :(
16:21:39Neothat sucks
16:21:41Neowhy not?
16:22:00Bluechipwrong chip inside
16:22:07Neothat sucks
16:22:13Neoit boots in like 2 seconds now
16:22:27Bluechipirony is the fact that the guy who wrote it also has an unflashable player
16:22:50Neohow can i charge without the over 85 rule
16:22:51Neou know?
16:23:08Bluechipno idea - rockbox chargin sucks donkey parts
16:23:25Neohow do u get a charge?
16:23:28BluechipI use the Archos charging or else it never charges properly
16:23:44Neome too
16:23:54Neobut i mean do u wait until it goes down from 85?
16:24:03Neoor explain the deep discharge to me
16:24:14Neoif u know
16:24:21BluechipI recharge when it gets below about 20
16:24:32Bluechipbut it jumped from 67 to 9 last night
16:24:42Neobut what if i want to take it on a trip the next day
16:24:46Neoand i want full power
16:25:05Bluechipare you saying that it will not charge at all over 85???
16:25:34Neoit hasto wait
16:25:45Bluechipjeez - that sucks big time
16:25:49Neobecause if the batteries get too full then they could fry
16:26:04Neomine is going up now from 87
16:26:06Neolets see
16:26:12Neou dont like ur archos?
16:26:32Bluechipall great but want a flashable one
16:26:39Neoo yeh
16:26:46Neowhen did u purchase ur last one?
16:26:58Bluechipmy only one purchased about 3 months ago
16:27:38Neothat sucks
16:27:46Neowhy isnt it flasshable?
16:28:01Bluechipdunno - there are just different version of the unit available
16:29:18Bluechipcant tell until rockbox is installed tho
16:29:36Neothat sucks
16:30:22Bluechipneed to find a replacement chip and pay someone to swap it out for me
16:30:39Neothe only difference is that it boots faster
16:31:00Bluechipi hate waiting for my player to bbot
16:31:48Bluechipand now, it is just me, i must confess to being a little jealous of others
16:31:54ZagorBluechip: fix the simulators? what's wrong with them?
16:32:16Bluechiphey Zagor
16:32:36Neowell my problems fixed
16:32:54Bluechiptrying to fix a couple of bugs introduced by the plugin system, but keep getting compile errors
16:33:00Bluechipalso have a new game to test
16:33:01 Quit Neo ("Client exiting")
16:33:33Zagorneo: it does charge >85% too, just not the most aggressive mode
16:34:05ZagorBluechip: the simulators work fine for me. are you sure you have the latest code? which sim and which host?
16:34:24Bluechipwin32 on a windoze box using yesterdays code
16:36:00BluechipZ: mind you, I have noticed that although the main build spews errors - it actually completely okay - the plugins dir terminates with an Error 255 - maybe things are not as bad with the simulators as it seems, but I cannot work out how to run a plugin
16:43:29Zagorcan you show me a build log?
16:44:26BluechipI can only capture the last screenful of info as I have yet to work out how to pipe the output to a file!!!
16:45:06Bluechip">" only seems to capture SOME of it!?
16:45:23Zagoryes, only stdout
16:45:32earHurtsit doesn't get stderr
16:45:52earHurtson linux, you can use 2>
16:46:15earHurtsWon't cygwin do that too?
16:46:31Bluechip">>" does append in my experience
16:47:10Zagor2> is not the same as >>. actually type 2>
16:47:27 Nick earHurts is now known as earHurts13h45m (
16:47:53earHurts13h45mand that means typing 1> too, I think
16:48:29Bluechip$ make 1> 2> x.x
16:48:29BluechipBASH: syntax error near unexpected token `2'
16:49:45earHurts13h45mbash supports both the "2>&1" and "&>"
16:50:02Zagoroh, bash
16:50:35CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
16:50:35*earHurts13h45m thinks. . o 0 O ( Google is my friend )
16:50:56earHurts13h45ma thought bubble. like in cartoons
16:53:07Bluechipi can type make a second time and reproduce only a small section of the build - but nonetheless complete with Error 255
16:54:18earHurts13h45mwhat build is it?
16:54:37earHurts13h45mwasn't clean out subdirs just recently added?
16:55:06Bluechipnope ...clean download
16:57:03Bluechipshould I presume you guys are linux people?
16:57:21Bluechipcan YOU get the sim to work?
16:57:36earHurts13h45myou should presume I'm a midget with a hunchback
16:57:53Bluechiphow do your feet reach the pedals?
16:58:02earHurts13h45mI gave up on the sim a long time ago
16:58:15earHurts13h45mI'm running w2k and cygwin
16:58:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:58:42earHurts13h45mwhat are these "feet" you speak of?
17:13:12 Join blastman007 [0] (
17:15:34blastman007why does the game "jackpot" not work on my archos recorder?
17:15:46earHurts13h45mgot no idea
17:16:02Zagorblastman007: because it's written for players
17:16:06earHurts13h45mdidn't know there was a jackpot game
17:16:31earHurts13h45mdon't be a playa hayta
17:17:26blastman007cant they write it for recorders_
17:18:23earHurts13h45mtake a look at the code, and port it, blastman
17:18:36blastman007and why is tetris from right to left?
17:18:58earHurts13h45mdunno why
17:19:08earHurts13h45myou a lefty?
17:19:14blastman007what is "port" ?
17:19:44blastman007im not a programmer
17:19:52earHurts13h45mto move to another architecture/language
17:20:10blastman007is this the only game for players?
17:20:30Zagorsure it can be written for recorders too. but it was written more to prove that games can be done on players too.
17:20:39Zagoryes, it's the only player game
17:21:10blastman007will they do it for recorders?
17:23:03blastman007and why is snake not inluded in the game menu?
17:23:52Bluechipback now: family member with "why can't i connect to MSN"
17:24:09earHurts13h45mzagor's working on dynamic menus
17:24:20Bluechipgo go gadget zagor
17:24:28earHurts13h45myou have a family?
17:24:29blastman007whats zagor?
17:24:46Bluechipone of out resident coders
17:24:46earHurts13h45mthe rockbox founder
17:24:56Bluechipoh! didn't realise that
17:25:15earHurts13h45mzagor==bjorn, no?
17:25:28*earHurts13h45m checks
17:25:54earHurts13h45mNick reference Zagor => Bjrn Stenberg
17:26:33blastman007ok and what is a "dynamic menu" ?
17:26:46 Join hardeep [0] (1098@
17:27:48earHurts13h45ma menu that sees what rocks you have, and gives you the option to run them
17:28:30earHurts13h45mthen, if you hand snake.rock, it would be in the menu
17:29:09Bluechip../../apps/plugin.c:100: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
17:29:15earHurts13h45mhardeep, when did you make the fix for the recursive dir option?
17:29:24Bluechipsame error on lines 102, 103, 105, and 141
17:29:49earHurts13h45micheck to see if you can cast it
17:30:04Bluechipit's only a warning
17:30:17hardeepearHurts13h45m: uhm, last week sometime, tuesday or wed. why?
17:30:19earHurts13h45myeah, and it's probably ok
17:30:34earHurts13h45mI've got the problem again
17:30:59ZagorBluechip: yeah, that's because rockbox implements open/close/read/write with different parameter types. i'll fix that some day.
17:31:03BluechipWould you expect the sim to run .rocks?
17:31:07earHurts13h45mon 030714
17:31:16Bluechipcool - np
17:31:31hardeepBluechip: yeah, both x11 and win32 sims run there own version of .rocks
17:31:31Zagoryes, the sims run rocks
17:31:55Bluechiphmm - so it is MY problem then! :(
17:32:07earHurts13h45mhow far are the file funcs from ansi?
17:32:37 Quit blastman007 ("get satisfied! (Gamers.IRC powered by get it @")
17:32:54hardeepearHurts13h45m: the change was made in settings.h on Tue. Jul 15. Please make sure you are using that version
17:32:58earHurts13h45mfour line quit message
17:33:00ZagorearHurts13h45m: not far. just using int instead of ssize_t etc.
17:33:10Bluechipi have noticed that "char x[]={'1','2','3'}" in a local procedure causes a call to memcpy which is no longer supported by the plugin system - is there a simple solution
17:33:57earHurts13h45mmake it static
17:34:16earHurts13h45mwhich is better anyway
17:34:25earHurts13h45mfor a couple of reasons
17:34:27Bluechipit was precisely that fix which killed one function in othelo
17:34:46Bluechipi've got a work around, just trying to establish what is going on
17:34:47earHurts13h45mblue, are you the othelo guy?
17:34:51Zagorreally? how did that happen?
17:35:10earHurts13h45mcan you priv msg me, please?
17:35:23Zagorah, the code assumed the values would be reset at each invocation?
17:35:33Bluechipindeedly ;)
17:35:46earHurts13h45mput it at file scope
17:36:00earHurts13h45mhave ab init function reset it explicitly
17:36:09ZagorBluechip: sorry about that. i should have seen that.
17:37:03Bluechipz: no problems dude, I've changed the code to keep it happy now :)
17:39:03Bluechipnow all I need to do is work out how to test it
17:39:40earHurts13h45mwhen I was a lad, I sketched out some simple plans for computer othello bb never got very far, but I learned the value of certian squares
17:40:18ZagorBluechip: do you get any .rock files at all in your build dir?
17:40:55Bluechipno :(
17:41:10Bluechipit bails with Error 255 when trying to build "bounce"
17:41:11hardeepBluechip: you're probably missing a few tools
17:41:20hardeepBluechip: you need "dlltool" and "dllwrap"
17:41:29Zagorcan you put up the last screenful or text somewhere?
17:41:30hardeepBluechip: they are in the "binutils" package of cygwin
17:41:47Zagorah, that sounds like it
17:43:01hardeepZagor: btw, the win32 simulator compiled with mingw on linux works!
17:44:18Zagoreven ?
17:44:34Bluechipwith complete set of .rocks?
17:44:55hardeepZagor: yep, just verified
17:45:06hardeepZagor: as do all the rocks built with that version
17:45:06Zagorexcellent! i'll add the links to the web page then.
17:48:07Zagorbleeding edge link added
17:49:23hardeepone thing i noticed with bleeding edge, not sure if it's intentional... plugin errors don't get reported on main creen, have to see debug output to see if they occurred
17:49:48Zagorthat's not intentional
17:50:37Zagorbtw, what is "main screen" as opposed to "debug output"? in linux there is just one stdout...
17:50:47earHurts13h45manyone here have an fm?
17:50:55Bluechipis there anywhere I can get a full working toolkit?
17:50:57hardeepZagor: sorry, was referring to the daily builds page
17:51:16hardeepZagor: the table doesn't report plugin errors
17:51:35Zagori doesn't? do you have an example?
17:51:52earHurts13h45mblue, what do you mean by toolkit?
17:52:14Bluechipsomething that will let me compile the code in the same way as others
17:52:17hardeepZagor: take a look at last "Player Norm" build
17:52:30earHurts13h45mwhat os do you have?
17:52:37Zagorhardeep: ok, thanks. odd...
17:52:44earHurts13h45mget cygwin
17:53:12earHurts13h45mget all of cygwin, while you're at it
17:53:22hardeepBluechip: roland is updating his toolkit to include the new utilities required for rocks
17:53:31hardeepBluechip: for now you have to get it manually
17:54:11Bluechipin which case - I give up - I would rather work a different project than try to smash my head into cygwin installer again
17:54:15earHurts13h45mcygwin's like those fancy margerines
17:54:33earHurts13h45m"I can't believe it's not linux"
17:54:42Bluechipyeah full of undigestible fats which cause cancer of the colon
17:54:59earHurts13h45mcygwin installer caused you probs?
17:55:23Bluechipto the point that it ate my machine and I swore never to use it again
17:55:39earHurts13h45mit's a bit cryptic...
17:56:02earHurts13h45minstall or download probs?
17:56:22Bluechipeat my machine problems
17:56:58Bluechipthat was AFTER i spent about 45-60mins trying to turn off all the bits I didn't want - which it kept turning back on every time I clicked on something else
17:57:43earHurts13h45mthe bits you didn't want were required by the bits you did
17:57:46Bluechipthat only work one way
17:58:04earHurts13h45mit's easiest to get it all
17:58:28Bluechipno, the bits i didn't want were only required by other bits that I also didn't want, but I had to expand the list to realise that - by which time it is too late
17:58:43earHurts13h45malthough I remember when I first got it, I was on dialup...ugh
17:58:47Bluechipwhat a shame that the plugins has broken the compile :(
17:59:04Bluechipeverything was working just fine before
17:59:13earHurts13h45mand will again
17:59:14Zagoreverything still works if you don't use the plugins
17:59:37Zagorand everything still builds if you install the required build tools
17:59:39Bluechipyes indeed - what a shame I am trying to debug a plugin
17:59:54Bluechipalso what a shame that my new code needs to be produced as a plugin
18:00:12Bluechipi suppose I could embed it into the main code and let someone else do the conversion like last time
18:00:23earHurts13h45mplugins are a good idea
18:00:46earHurts13h45mand it's already been unembeded
18:01:09Bluechipnot commenting on the value of the idea - just trying to get the damn things to compile
18:01:16Bluechip...under sim
18:01:40BluechipI can ignore the fatal errors, i just can't debug the plugins any more
18:01:59earHurts13h45mhardeeps, if he isn't using cygwin, is he using the mingw toolchain?
18:02:32hardeepearHurts13h45m: well, we're using the mingw tools package for cygwin
18:03:02earHurts13h45mthere's a mingw for cygwin now?
18:03:16Bluechipwho cares why - will it fix my problem?
18:03:28earHurts13h45mwell, apparently
18:03:42hardeepearHurts13h45m: why not? :) it allows you to build the gui stuff
18:03:54earHurts13h45mbut I suspect you'll need to compile it
18:04:00earHurts13h45munder cygwin
18:04:09hardeepBluechip: i've told you what you need, the "binutils" cygwin package, download that and you'll have everything up and working again
18:04:11earHurts13h45moh right
18:04:39earHurts13h45mno, wait, you can get to the mswin32 apibfrom cygwin
18:04:45Bluechipi will try to work out how to obtain this util without killing my machine
18:05:01hardeepearHurts13h45m: i'm sure there are other ways, this is just what we're using
18:05:12hardeepearHurts13h45m: it's also compatible with the linux compile of the win32 simulator
18:05:41earHurts13h45mso you build mingw using cygwin? an I undertsanding correctly?
18:06:01hardeepearHurts13h45m: nah, no need to build, there's already a package for it
18:06:18hardeepearHurts13h45m: yes
18:06:47earHurts13h45mso blue just needs which, cygwin or mingw binaries?
18:07:08Bluechipbinutils apparently - but god only knows how to get these
18:07:38earHurts13h45muse the cygwin installer, check only binutils?
18:07:51earHurts13h45mIt's Wagner time!
18:08:23earHurts13h45mhmm. Rienzi? no, siegfried.
18:08:34Bluechipi did mention earlier that there wasn't a chickens chance in a super-nove that cygwin installed will get the chance to eat my machine again
18:09:12hardeepBluechip: there are ways to manually install the package as well... see the cygwin faq
18:09:18ZagorBluechip: what are you compiling with?
18:09:42Bluechipgod knows - whatever I downloaded from the rockbox web page
18:09:54earHurts13h45mmmm, fried chicken
18:10:02Zagorheh, cygwin then :)
18:10:20earHurts13h45mno fried chicken??
18:10:29*earHurts13h45m hungry
18:10:39Bluechipall i need to do is find the files that were missing from the official dev kit and maybe I can sima .rock
18:10:54Bluechipbut all I have to work with is RTFF
18:12:44Bluechipseems that all my efforts to help rockbox are in vain - when I offered to help crack the MAS, all I got was reams of "that's impossible"
18:13:42earHurts13h45mno, you've given us a vey fun game
18:14:00ZagorBluechip: you did? i thought we had a reasonable discussion about it the other day.
18:14:03earHurts13h45mI've enjoyed it quite a bit
18:15:12BluechipPerhaps this group's methods are just alien to me - the last team I was in worked together quite tightly - but then, it was a smaller group
18:15:43BluechipThe other night, I felt that I shared everything I had to date, and did not get any of my questions answered
18:15:51Zagorwhat are out alien methods? i don't understand what you are referring to.
18:16:24Zagorwhich questions was that? i answered a few about the mas.
18:16:52BluechipI have tried and tried to help out here at rockbox, but i feel that it is a closed group, and I am just not with the "in" crowd
18:17:37Bluechipwithout reading back over the logs, the only Q I recall asking was with regard to contacting micronas
18:18:20Zagorit's unfortunate you feel this way. personally I take pride in welcoming all developers who want to help.
18:20:11earHurts13h45mYou know, it's easy for different people to get different impression, especially in text only media, like irc and email.
18:20:30Zagorwhat was the question about contacting micronas? if we've done it? if so, no we haven't tried officially. but i recall someone talked to them and they were interested in talking, if we planned to buy >1000 units
18:21:32Bluechipperhaps a little more effort could be put in there before we start reversing their stuff
18:21:40Zagornaturally, it can't hurt trying again. it's just not very high up on my personal priority list.
18:21:47Zagoryes, i agree
18:22:06Bluechipdo we have any "codec" code?
18:22:19Bluechip...other than the Terratec stuff
18:22:24Zagornot that i know
18:23:37Bluechipdoes ANYone know ANYthing about the terratec?
18:23:54Zagori don't :)
18:23:57Bluechip....even if we could use their codecs, that would be a start
18:24:09earHurts13h45mhave you asked on usenet?
18:24:29Bluechipno, not a usenet man myself
18:24:47Zagoryes it would. however i suspect they've spent money developing it and are unwilling to publish it freely (they may even be legally restrained)
18:24:51Bluechipone day they will write a decent newsreader for windoze that is NOT called Outlook and I will run it ;)
18:25:18earHurts13h45mxnews is quirky but quite nice
18:25:44earHurts13h45mit's not an offline reader, but hamster can be used to cache news
18:26:05ZagorBluechip: how come you still use windows? most programmers tend to shift to a free unix sooner or later. (no flame, just curious)
18:26:05Bluechipwould there be anything to stop home users holding a copy of terratec firmware on their own hard-drive?
18:26:20ZagorBluechip: apart from it being terratec property?
18:26:28Bluechipmainly for the software
18:26:39Bluechipfreely downloadable
18:27:27Zagori always feel there is too little free software for windows...
18:28:45Bluechipthere is also my resistance to change, hence why I still run 98se
18:28:47earHurts13h45mthat's why you get cygwin.
18:29:37 Join JasonG [0] (
18:30:11ZagorBluechip: terratec firmware being freely downloadable means anyone can download it from their site. it still doesn't mean we are allowed to distribute it, or use parts of it in our firmware. however it's definitely worth asking them.
18:30:26JasonGhi guys
18:30:27Bluechipi think also, working in the private sector for so long, you realise that everything is released for windows - try compiling your phoenix bios code under linux - maybe possible, but totally unsupported
18:30:54Bluechipwe do not need to distribute it - they already do that for us
18:31:28ZagorBluechip: yeah, but it's not very practical if we'd want the feature in rockbox
18:32:20Bluechipa link to their f/w with a free advert?
18:33:21Bluechipto me it is just another file on the internet - download it, slap it on a hard drive somewhere
18:34:03Bluechipif a program then opens this file (such as grep, or explorer, or rockbox) then is that a problem?
18:34:51Bluechipso you have a solution :)
18:34:52Zagorhowever it's a rather messy way to integrate it into rockbox :)
18:35:03 Quit Galik (Remote closed the connection)
18:35:08Bluechipopen file, read data, close file ?
18:35:27Bluechipmaybe a user could do "save data"
18:35:40Zagorwell the file is an .exe so it's a bit more than that.
18:35:50Bluechipwhat file is an exe?
18:35:55JasonGhey, I wanted to thank you for working on this.. bought an Archos the other day and almost returned it after I found out it couldn't randomize worth crap
18:36:09Zagorthe firmware file distributed by terratec
18:36:10JasonGdid a last ditch google search, and found rockbox, lol
18:36:28BluechipJG: Welcome to the future ;)
18:36:42Bluechipz: its a self extracting archive
18:36:50Bluechipthe firmware is a .bin
18:36:56JasonGand I'm also an embedded software engineer, so I'm looking at the schematics
18:37:08Bluechiphey cool :) muchos welcome :)
18:37:33ZagorJasonG: which model did you buy?
18:37:39JasonGFM Recorder 20
18:37:49Zagorgood choice
18:37:57JasonGit was only $10 more than the others
18:38:03Bluechipstll favour the recorder20 personally
18:38:26earHurts13h45mJason, I wonder if you have a moment...
18:38:32ZagorBluechip: actually, so do I :)
18:38:57JasonGI was going to look at the source and schematics and see if I can do anything to help with the tuner functionality
18:39:08earHurts13h45mYou've installed rockbox on your fm?
18:39:11BluechipZ: can we do data via digital I/O - or is this also on the other side of the MAS?
18:39:17JasonGyeah, 7/25's build
18:39:21 Join scott666 [0] (
18:39:29ZagorBluechip: it's connected to the mas only
18:39:31earHurts13h45mand you have it at hand?
18:39:47scott666hey all
18:39:57Bluechipif we can crack this MAS we will open pandoras box
18:40:06ZagorBluechip: indeed
18:40:08earHurts13h45mwould you mind plugging in the charger, and stopping playback?
18:40:08JasonGi was looking at the MAS datasheet last night
18:40:20Zagori'd say the terratec firmware can be our rosetta stone
18:40:24JasonGdoes Rockbox program the decoding firmware into it, or does it use the default?
18:40:26Bluechipdon't suppose you have contacts at micronas?
18:40:33ZagorJasonG: the default
18:40:38Bluechipwe just use the default :(
18:40:45JasonGdoes the Archos ROM use the default too?
18:41:01scott666but the terratec firmware doesnt?
18:41:01JasonGsorry, i'm being lazy, i just haven't looked into it yet
18:41:16Bluechipno, much easier to ask first - save doing the same work trwice
18:41:25JasonGso i should turn it on, play something, plug in the charger, and stop it?
18:41:44earHurts13h45mno, plug, but don't play anything
18:41:51Zagorscott666: it appears not. they advertise "Variable playback speed possible without affecting pitch" which requires custom dsp code
18:42:14earHurts13h45mthen go to menu (f1 key)
18:42:22JasonGear: but what am I stopping if I plug it in?
18:42:27earHurts13h45mscroll to debig, then view battery
18:42:28Bluechipthere is apparently a player by a company called Terratec which also uses the MAS chip, they offer features that are not supported by the native MAS code - so we may have a route in
18:42:29JasonGerr, if i don't start anything
18:43:01earHurts13h45mturn it on, just don't play any music
18:43:09JasonGI wish I was still at my previous employer, doing work for polk. i'm sure i could get specs for the MAS
18:43:25Bluechipstill have friends at the old company?
18:43:35Bluechipi am currently trying this myself :)
18:43:52earHurts13h45mahem, clean room
18:43:53JasonGi did a wireless 5.1 system for polk using 802.11
18:44:19earHurts13h45mer, yes
18:44:42JasonGear: says battery voltage scale 4.17 - 4.20 V
18:45:01JasonGexternal: 1.3 V
18:45:03JasonGcharger: present
18:45:50earHurts13h45mexternal is q.e? what,s battery?
18:47:00earHurts13h45mis the charger plugged in to the outlet/mains?
18:47:16JasonG? i don't know what you mean
18:47:27JasonGi'm just using the DC charger, DC IN
18:48:31earHurts13h45mis the dc charger plugged into the wall?
18:49:15earHurts13h45mand it's 1.3 V, and battery is 4.17 V?
18:49:45JasonGexternal goes between 1.00 and 1.50 V, but it is fully charged
18:49:56earHurts13h45mon the screen that starts "Power Status"?
18:50:10earHurts13h45mok, thanks
18:50:14earHurts13h45mthat's odd
18:50:20JasonGis it?
18:50:30earHurts13h45mwell, no
18:50:39earHurts13h45mYours may be corect.
18:50:56earHurts13h45mbut my external is 6.95 V
18:51:10JasonGsame unit?
18:51:18earHurts13h45mrecorder fm
18:51:27JasonGand is the battery charged?
18:51:42ZagorBluechip: it seems our dcc chat isn't working
18:51:53JasonGaren't li-ions charged with varying voltages?
18:51:55Bluechiphmmm, do you use any other form of IM?
18:52:06JasonGif there's an IC charger chip, it'll vary voltage based on your charge
18:52:21ZagorBluechip: we can use private irc messages without dcc
18:52:40earHurts13h45myeah, it'll run down a bit lower
18:53:19earHurts13h45mbut yours is new and un-modded, so I trust it more
18:54:00earHurts13h45mI'm completely ignorant about electricity
18:54:40JasonGli-ions are charged based on change in current and voltage over time, it's really screwy
18:55:20earHurts13h45mit's odd.
18:55:43JasonGand i don't know if that number is from the charger or what
18:56:06earHurts13h45mi was having very bad battery problems, getting as little as 1.5 hours fully charged to no power
18:56:48ZagorJasonG: the unit (not the charger) handles the charging "intelligence". it's done by a chip.
18:56:59earHurts13h45mthen I tinkered and got charger voltage up to 6.9, and got 13.75 hours
18:57:09JasonGi figured, that'd be a shitty thing to have to do in software =)
18:58:40***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:59:06earHurts13h45mrecorder does it in software, yes?
18:59:20JasonGi'm trying to look for DC IN on the schematics
18:59:30Zagorwell recorder does nimh charging, which is much simpler.
18:59:39Zagorbasically all we control is on/off
18:59:50JasonGyou mean players
18:59:59Zagorno, the non-fm recorders
19:00:00JasonGrecorders have li-ion, right
19:00:06JasonGplayers have nimh
19:00:07Zagoronly fm has liion
19:00:09Bluechipno NiMh
19:00:11JasonGoh, ok
19:00:18Bluechip4 x AA
19:00:44JasonGdo you have FM recorder schematics?
19:02:58Zagorhardeep: compile status table bug fixed
19:03:16hardeepZagor: merci
19:03:27JasonGoh there it is, Linear 1734
19:03:59earHurts13h45mThe ancient Cretan alphabet?
19:04:08JasonGman, I can't believe they fit all this into a package this small, with a battery and all
19:04:24scott666open it up and see for yourself
19:04:32earHurts13h45mIt's quite tight.
19:04:51earHurts13h45mthe battery is sandwiched between the board and the hdd
19:04:51JasonGi've designed some this small, but it didn't have nearly as much crap =)
19:05:28earHurts13h45many idea what the tiny screw on the top of the board is for?
19:05:28JasonGi wonder if they did heat stress tests
19:06:33JasonGear: according to the datasheet, the voltage is at 1.5 when charging and dips down to 0 as the battery completes charge
19:06:35earHurts13h45msaid screw doesn't really attach to anything
19:06:43JasonGso you shouldn't be seeing above 1.5 V, if you have a li-ion unit
19:07:00BluechipI was wondering - do you think it would be possible to attach an IR sensor for a PC motherboard to the Archos? If so, is the "read ir" flexible enough?
19:07:02JasonGyou might have broke it =)
19:07:11earHurts13h45mquite possibly
19:07:15JasonGi've done some IR stuff
19:07:18earHurts13h45mI opened it up
19:07:32Bluechiplooking for a simple solution that anybody cqan implement
19:08:18earHurts13h45mwhat datasheet are you looking at Jason?
19:08:19JasonGthis thing is a lot like something I designed for medtronic, except data was flash-based, and there was no audio
19:08:21JasonGbut it was wireless
19:14:23earHurts13h45mjason, maybe you can speculate on something else
19:14:55JasonGlike why archos doesn't ditch their firmware and use yours
19:15:06earHurts13h45mwell, not mine
19:15:25earHurts13h45mmy contribution has been minimal
19:15:37JasonGthe collective "yours" =)
19:15:44 Quit edx`afk (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
19:15:59BluechipJG: Are you rtying to get "corporate" and "free" in the same sentence? lol
19:16:07earHurts13h45mat one point during charging, my external voltage was lower
19:16:16 Join Galik [0] (~galik@
19:16:23JasonGlike i said, i would have returned it if i wouldn't have found rockbox
19:16:38earHurts13h45mand i was getting output to the headphones. low volume white noise
19:17:05earHurts13h45mnot the charger noise; through the headphones
19:17:16earHurts13h45ma short?
19:17:35JasonGit was off?
19:17:59JasonGwhat is "low voltage"?
19:18:31JasonGi still don't see how it can be above 1.5
19:18:35ZagorJasonG: you should tell archos that
19:18:40JasonGi'd have to answer that question first
19:18:57Zagori mean "i would have returned it if i wouldn't have found rockbox"
19:19:17JasonGthe thing couldn't even randomize above entry 20 in a playlist
19:19:21JasonGthat was like the biggest reason I bought the thing
19:19:50JasonGI had a nice big old playlist of 600 songs, and it just shuffled among the first 20, lol
19:19:56BluechipRockbox is possibly the best thing since lift-up toilet seats
19:20:04scott666 lol
19:20:56JasonGi'm surprised at how canned everything is
19:21:13JasonGfm tuner, charger, decoder, usb-ata bridge, etc
19:21:19Bluechipis the guy here who reported the "last move" bug in othelo
19:24:29ZagorJasonG: yeah, the hardware is nice. that's why we started the project. "with all this cool hardware, *this* was all they did?" :)
19:25:14JasonGit helps reverse engineering, too =)
19:25:24JasonGas long as the parts aren't proprietary
19:25:24BluechipJG: So, dude, I don't want to sound tooo enthusiastic, but what are the odds of getting hold of the MAS sdk?
19:25:40JasonGi have no idea, i've never even heard of micronas
19:25:46JasonGi don't know how tight they'd be with it
19:26:27JasonGbut even if you could do like wavs, would the micro be able to handle the throughput?
19:26:37BluechipI do wonder that if they started the bidding at 1000 units, how much 500 units would cost
19:28:41ZagorJasonG: nog 44.1 kHz /16 bit wavs. we're limited to 1Mbit data.
19:29:46JasonGis codespace limited to the micro's RAM space?
19:29:48JasonGor can it page?
19:30:10ZagorBluechip: here is a mail from another guy who asked micronas:
19:30:12Bluechipmicros ram afaik
19:30:23JasonGso how much of it is rockbox currently using
19:30:44ZagorJasonG: do you mean the dsp ram space, or the cpu's?
19:31:01JasonGto me, micro = sh1
19:31:25Zagorwell we're using all ram. all that isn't used by rockbox code is used for mp3 buffer
19:31:36JasonGi mean micro as in microcontroller, not micronas =)
19:31:50JasonGso rockbox is about as big as it can get?
19:31:58Zagoryou can see how much rockbox uses by going to menu->info and subtracting the buffer size from 2MB
19:32:41Zagorno, rockbox can grow lots. we just don't want it to, since a big buffer space is important.
19:33:06Zagorwe've just added a plugin loader so we can swap seldom-used parts of the code out to save space
19:33:15earHurts13h45mwhat, no clippy?!
19:33:35JasonGso it's like 300k
19:34:01JasonGwrite a VMM driver =)
19:34:23BluechipZ: I get the impression that the (very helpful) guy who wrote to Micronas was not "in the industry" and maybe they smelled that and did not want to deal with HOME users
19:34:27Zagorwe could, but then we'd have to keep the disk spinning which would negate the gains...
19:34:38ZagorBluechip: very possible
19:34:52JasonGbut i mean, just page in the demos and games and stuff
19:34:57JasonGalthough I don't know which takes up the most ram
19:35:04ZagorJasonG: that's exactly what we do with plugins.
19:35:05earHurts13h45moh, hell, Zagor won't even add malloc :)
19:35:15JasonGbut plugins to me sounds like you'd have to do it manually?
19:35:26earHurts13h45mmuch less operator new
19:35:30Zagoryes, such as choose "tetris" in the menu :)
19:35:45JasonGoh, ok, then we're talking about the same thing
19:36:17JasonGso it's 300k not including plugins?
19:36:39Zagorno, it includes the plugin space. they have a dedicated memory are.
19:36:49earHurts13h45mthe firmware won't load more than 204
19:36:50JasonGbut just enough room for one plugin
19:36:53JasonGnot all, right?
19:37:09JasonGand that's why there's a lot more plugins, eh
19:37:40Zagori gotta go. talk to you later, all
19:37:47JasonGyou mean Archo's firemware won't load more than 204 from disk, ear?
19:37:53 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
19:37:54JasonGcya zag
19:37:54BluechipLaters Mr Z
19:38:17JasonGbut you essentially have another bootloader with the plugin thing
19:38:22earHurts13h45mwhich we were up against until the plugins
19:38:47earHurts13h45ma dll loader
19:39:24earHurts13h45mthere's a seperate bootloader
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19:44:12 Join earHurts [0] (
19:44:40earHurtslinux more stable for pdas? nope
19:45:59 Join Mine78 [0] (
19:46:09 Part Mine78
19:46:19earHurtsany other fm owners?
19:47:19earHurtswant to do my voltage test?
19:47:45scott666where i have to hold it while i plug in the charger?
19:47:45JasonGpoor ear doesn't trust me
19:48:00JasonGi've designed hardware, too
19:48:01scott666or was that someone else
19:48:21earHurtswell, last time I did it someone else reported different results than yours
19:48:41earHurtsno holding anymore
19:49:02earHurtsjust plug in, without playing music, and tell me numbers
19:49:12scott666hold on
19:50:28earHurtsJason, let's use your ahrdware knowledge.
19:50:46scott6663.0x internal, ~6.95 external
19:51:25JasonGwhich version of rockbox?
19:52:03JasonGand your unit says "JBR FM" on the back
19:52:08earHurtsI was wondering about that too
19:52:27JasonGit's almost as if mine's showing the charging voltage, and yours is showing the voltage from the DC adapter
19:53:07earHurtsyours is new, Jason?
19:53:38scott666mines only a month or 2 old
19:53:44JasonGhmm, i just turned it on and it says only 7% charge is left
19:53:51earHurtsscott, you'll remember my battery problem?
19:53:53scott666mine has 84%
19:54:17scott666your external was 2V down when u werent holding it
19:54:24earHurtsI was getting external of about 4.x
19:54:43earHurtsand my battery life was 1.5 to 3 hours
19:54:54earHurtsI styaed up all last night
19:55:12earHurtsno sleep in 29 hours
19:55:31earHurtsbecuase last night I got 13.75 hours
19:55:38earHurtsof battery
19:56:16earHurtsbecause my external is noe like yours, 6.95
19:56:30scott666so it fixed itself?
19:56:40scott666see? it was just lonley
19:56:40earHurts8 fixed it
19:57:08earHurtssay key on my keyboard
19:57:50scott666you lost me
19:58:27earHurts8 and I are on the same key −− it's a pda keyboard
20:00:02 Quit JasonG ()
20:00:19Bluechipl8rz all
20:00:30earHurtswe scared him with our talk of high voltage
20:00:39earHurtsbye blue
20:00:53 Part Bluechip
20:01:35earHurtsI need a nap too
20:01:48earHurtsthanks for your help scott
20:02:04 Quit earHurts (Remote closed the connection)
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20:32:40Galikhi ppl
20:32:51GalikI can't turn my rockbox off :(
20:34:18GalikAhh it's okay now... phew
20:37:17hardeepGalik: try holding on to the OFF button for several seconds
20:39:06GalikIt's off now. It was saying *PANIC* ata error -32 !!
20:39:19 Quit thu (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
20:39:21GalikBut it went off eventually
20:39:37GalikI think I was panicing a bit...
20:40:13GalikI just flashed it.
20:40:26*Galik always panics a bit when he flashes things
20:40:35GalikThe flash is awesome :)
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20:58:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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22:58:45***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:21:18bronsonHey guys.
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23:54:20 Join UncleSalty [0] (
23:54:38UncleSaltyhi everyone
23:55:06UncleSaltyi just ordered a Archos Recorder yesterday
23:55:15UncleSaltyi can't wait to get it and start using rockbox

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