#rockbox 2003-11-06

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#rockbox log for 2003-11-06

00:03:15		Join M2k961 [0] (~M2k961@24-164-135-95.si.rr.com)
00:03:55	M2k961	Hey, does anyone know how to speed up the time it takes to skip songs?
00:04:31	top_bloke	u cant
00:04:33	LinusN	yeah, double the memory and overlock the CPU :-)
00:04:44	M2k961	It takes long :(
00:04:47	top_bloke	well yeah
00:04:56	top_bloke	maybe faster hd too
00:05:05	M2k961	And the shuffle hates me. It purposely picks the worst songs.
00:05:08	top_bloke	i think the spinup is part of the problem
00:05:17	top_bloke	yeah the shuffle can suck
00:05:23	top_bloke	sometimes it picks good songs
00:05:24	LinusN	M2k961: you can increase the spindown time
00:05:50	M2k961	hmm..
00:05:54	M2k961	Booting it up now.
00:06:12	top_bloke	well depends on what kind of skip
00:06:13	M2k961	spindown = 5s
00:06:26	M2k961	like go through the playlst
00:06:26	LinusN	increase it
00:06:42	M2k961	Err..
00:06:42	M2k961	it keeps going
00:06:44	top_bloke	would it even matter then
00:06:46	M2k961	im at 20 :)
00:06:58	top_bloke	you'll lose bat. life
00:07:10	LinusN	top_bloke: only when skipping songs
00:07:25	M2k961	LinusN: what do you recommend on the time?
00:07:25	top_bloke	what?
00:07:38	top_bloke	am i missing something
00:07:40	LinusN	M2k961: 10-20 seconds may be ok
00:07:53	top_bloke	oh
00:07:58	top_bloke	well i think i get it
00:08:18	LinusN	top_bloke: the disk spindown timer only affects user-generated disk activity
00:08:27	top_bloke	yeah
00:08:32	top_bloke	like skipping
00:08:39	LinusN	automatic disk activity, such as mp3 buffering, always spins down asap
00:08:47	top_bloke	ok
00:09:02	top_bloke	how about browsing?
00:09:09	LinusN	user interaction
00:09:19	Dogger	hey whats the cheapest device I can run rockbox on? is it the mp3 jukebox 10 or something?
00:09:27	top_bloke	i think maybe i should do this too
00:09:50	LinusN	the disk spindown timer is defined as "how long to spin the disk after last user-generated disk activity"
00:10:00	top_bloke	yeah i get it
00:10:15	LinusN	Dogger: probably, but i'd go for a recorder device
00:10:34	LinusN	for the LCD and USB2.0
00:10:39	Dogger	LinusN: ok, just wanted some platform I can try this out on, to learn how to do it for av products
00:10:46	Dogger	ah ok, yeah usb2 is nice
00:10:57	LinusN	better sound as well
00:11:13	LinusN	M2k961: have you tried out the disk timer?
00:11:22	top_bloke	cant u just use the simulator?
00:11:43	Dogger	hmm yeah suppose,
00:11:59	M2k961	Yea, it didnt show no real improvement..
00:12:05	M2k961	I mean, some.
00:12:38	LinusN	M2k961: skipping in playlists is somewhat slower than directory play
00:12:44	M2k961	Well yea
00:12:46	M2k961	I meant that
00:12:54	M2k961	DIrectory play.
00:17:39	LinusN	speeding up next/prev is not easily done
00:18:20	LinusN	the playlist handling and the mp3 buffering takes time
00:21:42		Join scott666 [0] (scott666@c-24-245-58-245.mn.client2.attbi.com)
00:22:31		Quit Dogger ("Client Exiting")
00:22:39	top_bloke	maybe if u buffered a little bit of the next track in playlist
00:23:20	top_bloke	only a few sec
00:23:30	LinusN	top_bloke: reading the next entry in the playlist takes time too
00:23:44	LinusN	and it will complicate the mp3 buffering
00:23:52	top_bloke	so do it along with the first read
00:23:58	top_bloke	when the disk is already spun
00:24:12	LinusN	still, the mp3 buffering gets complicated
00:24:18	top_bloke	i see
00:24:26	LinusN	and what if the user wants to do Prev
00:24:37	top_bloke	dont account for that
00:25:06	top_bloke	i dont know
00:25:22	LinusN	it's not impossible, only complicated
00:25:47	LinusN	and it will only speed up the first Next operation
00:26:03	top_bloke	then load 2 tacks
00:26:07	top_bloke	lol
00:26:09	top_bloke	then 3
00:26:11	LinusN	:-)
00:26:17	top_bloke	and soon youre all out of buffer
00:26:34	scott666	so? who listens to more than 5 seconds per song anyway?
00:26:45	LinusN	hehe
00:26:46	top_bloke	?
00:27:17	top_bloke	yeah a scan mode could be done like this too
00:27:31	top_bloke	where it plays the first x seconds of tracks
00:28:16	LinusN	yeah
00:28:42	top_bloke	but would also have to buffer all those
00:29:29	*	M2k961 just wants faster next timings :(
00:29:45	top_bloke	i do too
00:29:51	LinusN	me too
00:29:52	LinusN	:-)
00:29:58	top_bloke	we all do
00:30:15	M2k961	Well, im going, cya around.
00:30:15		Part M2k961
00:30:21	top_bloke	later
00:31:06	scott666	is counting over the claimed end of a song a known bug? (eg: 3:29/3:30, 3:30/3:30, 3:31/3:30, 0:00/5:00)
00:31:43	LinusN	yes
00:31:54	LinusN	but a bug?
00:32:04	scott666	well...it seems like one
00:32:10	LinusN	yes it is
00:32:15	scott666	any idea what causes it?
00:32:19	LinusN	yes
00:32:32	scott666	care to enlighten me?
00:32:38	LinusN	yes
00:32:39	LinusN	:-)
00:33:06	LinusN	well, the duration calculation code lacks precision
00:33:36	scott666	obviously
00:33:49	LinusN	each mp3 frame is (in the 44.1kHz case) 26.12 ms long
00:34:08	LinusN	but we only count 26ms
00:34:22	scott666	ahh, figured it'd be a rounding error
00:34:32	LinusN	that is one of the causes
00:34:48	scott666	are we able to count as 26.12?
00:34:59	LinusN	another is that the timer counts independently from the mp3 decoding
00:35:25	LinusN	so the timer could be started before the actual decoding starts
00:35:40	scott666	i see
00:35:55	LinusN	we can increase the precision, but then we have to use 64-bit ints for the calculations
00:36:44	LinusN	if you pause the song, the timer will be slightly off
00:37:19	scott666	because of the delay between starting hte decoding and starting the timer?
00:37:30	LinusN	and the stopping
00:40:04		Quit scott666 ("i'll be back...eventually...")
00:40:49		Quit edx ()
00:44:18		Join klaxon [0] (trilluser@adsl-64-142-36-45.sonic.net)
00:45:27	klaxon	how common is it to hear pauses in playback caused by disk spinup?
00:45:42	LinusN	should be very uncommon
00:45:51	LinusN	is it a vbr file?
00:46:00	klaxon	yeah
00:46:14	LinusN	then run "Update VBR file" on it
00:46:20	LinusN	ON+Play
00:46:29	LinusN	in the browser
00:46:47	klaxon	ah. is that some xing vbr header thingie?
00:46:54	LinusN	most probably
00:47:20	LinusN	yes, "update vbr file" recalculates the xing header
00:47:22	klaxon	fine. i was concerned, the disk was lame and not spinning up fast enough
00:47:54	LinusN	rockbox takes the disk spinup time into account
00:48:05	LinusN	in the daily builds at least
00:48:59	klaxon	i just built today's tarball.
00:49:00	LinusN	but this dynamic buffer handling fails when the Xing header is missing
00:49:23	klaxon	that makes perfect sense.
00:51:00	klaxon	i encode cds as one file, then split them by track for the archos, so i'll need to add fix the vbr header
00:53:03	LinusN	why do you do that?
00:53:47	klaxon	for continuous mix discs, to avoid the track gap.
00:54:04	LinusN	lame −−nogap does that for you
00:54:07	klaxon	i listen to them as mp3 on archos, but burn cdda for the car
00:54:32	klaxon	yeah i have heard about −−nogap but it was not ready last i heard. look again you say?
00:55:02	LinusN	works for me
00:55:35	LinusN	but if whole-cd encoding works for you...
00:55:47	klaxon	even if the files get id3 tagged and mangled, you can put them back together okay?
00:55:57	LinusN	of course
00:56:28	klaxon	okay i'll revisit. i've had quite a long discussion about this with friends.
00:56:36	LinusN	rockbox strips all non-mp3 information
00:57:30	klaxon	yeah i haven't noticed a gap in archos playback. the issue is recreating a nogap cdda
00:57:40	LinusN	yup
00:58:07	klaxon	infact while many car mp3 players can't get the gap out, notably pioneer (pioneer!), archos does it fine.
00:58:36	klaxon	so i use archos on linein on my pioneer car system. wish they would get some decent programmers..
00:58:39	LinusN	i've put a lot of effort in that
00:58:46	klaxon	you rock.
00:59:37	LinusN	pretty tricky, since many files violate the id3 specs in one way or another
01:00
01:00:27	klaxon	i can imagine. id3 is really messy.
01:00:35	LinusN	indeed
01:00:37		Join midknight2k3 [0] (lala@AC849AC5.ipt.aol.com)
01:00:43	midknight2k3	hi
01:00:49	midknight2k3	hi linus
01:00:53	midknight2k3	my patch is merged! yay
01:00:54	LinusN	hi
01:01:18	*	midknight2k3 thinks about new patches
01:01:43	LinusN	midknight2k3: i discovered a sad thing when i merged your patch
01:01:44	midknight2k3	so in order to get in the credits, you make up something from scratch and not just patch an existing file right?
01:01:48	midknight2k3	uh oh
01:01:49	top_bloke	ahem animated menus
01:01:50	midknight2k3	what
01:01:54	midknight2k3	top: yes yes
01:02:01	LinusN	midknight2k3: you are in the credits
01:02:06	midknight2k3	i am?
01:02:12	*	midknight2k3 rushes to check
01:02:16	top_bloke	lol
01:02:20	LinusN	i discovered that LCD updates disturb the FM reception
01:02:30	midknight2k3	they do?
01:02:46	LinusN	also the Stereo/Mono check communication with the FM chip
01:02:51	LinusN	at least on my FMR
01:02:57	midknight2k3	sounded ok to me
01:03:14	midknight2k3	am i looking at the wrong credits?
01:03:29	LinusN	my FMR has been opened auite a few times, to the copper cage may be leaking
01:03:43	midknight2k3	apps/recorder/radio.c
01:03:43	midknight2k3	apps/lang/english.lang
01:03:43	midknight2k3	Patch #836267 by Zakk Roberts, adds peak meter to the radio screen, plus a few more changes
01:03:55	LinusN	docs/CREDITS
01:03:56	midknight2k3	did you forget to add me? or is it my eyes ? :)
01:04:10	midknight2k3	http://rockbox.haxx.se/docs/credits.html
01:04:12	midknight2k3	this one?
01:04:13	LinusN	and in the "version" scrolle rin the menu
01:04:35	midknight2k3	hmm
01:04:43	*	midknight2k3 doesn't see midknight2k3's name
01:04:49	midknight2k3	was it at that link?
01:04:52	midknight2k3	http://rockbox.haxx.se/docs/credits.html
01:05:07	*	midknight2k3 tries CTRL+F5
01:05:24	LinusN	DOH! I forgot to commit it!
01:05:33	midknight2k3	i thought so!
01:05:34	midknight2k3	lol
01:05:38	LinusN	i committed it now
01:05:42	midknight2k3	just this second?
01:05:45	midknight2k3	that was quick
01:05:46	LinusN	yes
01:06:04	LinusN	did you like the f-key button bar?
01:06:14	midknight2k3	where at?
01:06:35	midknight2k3	i saw that as a new thing recently but i didnt try a new release
01:07:56	*	midknight2k3 jumps around with joy
01:07:56	midknight2k3	so just like the archos firmware?
01:07:56	midknight2k3	the button bar?
01:08:00	midknight2k3	like Menu, etc?
01:08:14	LinusN	yes, but only for the radio screen for now
01:08:19	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:08:34		Join thedude02 [0] (~thefirstd@pm637-19.dialip.mich.net)
01:08:43	midknight2k3	i tried to make PLAY mute
01:08:45	LinusN	did you notice that the station search is a lot faster now?
01:08:45	midknight2k3	but the oly un-mute option was up and down
01:08:50		Quit AciD ("www.acid.ht.st")
01:08:51	midknight2k3	ill take a look
01:09:31	midknight2k3	linus
01:09:45	midknight2k3	i think we should put button bars around the whole setup
01:09:51	midknight2k3	and have an option for it
01:09:57	LinusN	we will
01:10:04	midknight2k3	general settings->display->button bar
01:10:10	LinusN	exactly
01:10:30	midknight2k3	maybe i can do it
01:11:08	LinusN	i want that to accompany the ui overhaul
01:11:22	midknight2k3	i can try it
01:11:36	LinusN	right now, the menu functions can't handle the button bar
01:11:44	midknight2k3	?
01:12:13	LinusN	they will overwrite it
01:12:24	midknight2k3	when will the credits be replaced?
01:12:37	LinusN	in tomorrow's daily build
01:12:48	midknight2k3	but they will be put up right now right
01:12:53	midknight2k3	for bleeding edge or something?
01:12:59	top_bloke	whats a button bar?
01:13:06	LinusN	the site is updated sometime during the night
01:13:08	midknight2k3	like the archos fw
01:13:17	thedude02	a bar of buttons
01:13:21	midknight2k3	hehe
01:13:31	midknight2k3	dude: button :LABELS
01:13:32	LinusN	top_bloke: a bar describing what the F-keys do
01:14:02	thedude02	AHHHHHHH! in Rockbox!
01:14:13	midknight2k3	no duh
01:14:21	top_bloke	constantly on the screen?
01:14:22	top_bloke	like the keyboard input has
01:14:27	thedude02	I thought he was asking in general what it means
01:14:31	midknight2k3	yes
01:14:33	LinusN	top_bloke: yes
01:14:33	midknight2k3	just like that
01:14:42	midknight2k3	there is no general definition
01:14:50	top_bloke	so its on the screen all the time?
01:14:57	midknight2k3	unless you turn it off
01:15:01	thedude02	of button bar? yeah there is: a bar of buttons
01:15:01	midknight2k3	there will be an option
01:15:14	midknight2k3	dude: sure.
01:15:23	midknight2k3	"votever"
01:15:25	thedude02	votever
01:15:43	top_bloke	well if its an option its cool
01:15:43	top_bloke	ok got it
01:15:53	midknight2k3	linus
01:15:59	midknight2k3	will ableeding edge have the button bar? right
01:16:10	midknight2k3	sheesh
01:16:22	midknight2k3	might as well reflash
01:16:47	midknight2k3	oh no
01:16:53	midknight2k3	there is no UCLs for bleeding edge
01:16:55	midknight2k3	fix it! lol
01:17:36	LinusN	midknight2k3: i included the buttonbar in your patch, it should be in today's daily
01:18:26	midknight2k3	linus
01:18:35	midknight2k3	the radio looks a little bad
01:18:41	LinusN	oh?
01:18:54	midknight2k3	well we should do font_sysfixed for one
01:19:02	midknight2k3	as the custom font disappears after a few seconds
01:19:20	LinusN	i'm working on that as we speak
01:19:27	midknight2k3	updating SLOW too
01:19:36	*	midknight2k3 looks worried
01:19:42	midknight2k3	i hope i put up the right patch
01:19:49	midknight2k3	i did
01:19:57	LinusN	well, your submitted patch was very slow
01:19:57	midknight2k3	i remember testing it
01:20:03	midknight2k3	it was good for me...
01:20:08	LinusN	but i fixed it before committing it
01:20:08	midknight2k3	hmmmmmm
01:20:19	midknight2k3	let me check that button_get_w_tmo
01:20:27	LinusN	it was not the timeout
01:20:39	LinusN	it was lots of unnecessary lcd updates
01:20:50	midknight2k3	well
01:20:55	midknight2k3	it made it run nice
01:21:03	midknight2k3	now its like twice per second or less
01:21:08	midknight2k3	and it looks terrible
01:21:52	thedude02	just in case yuo wanted to know I'm going.
01:21:57		Quit thedude02 ()
01:22:02	midknight2k3	that was uncalled for
01:22:16	midknight2k3	button = button_get_w_tmo(HZ / peak_meter_fps);
01:22:23	midknight2k3	are you sure that's the way to do it?
01:22:35	midknight2k3	which reminds me, let me put up my PM FPS patch
01:22:53	midknight2k3	timeout = current_tick + HZ/2;
01:22:57	midknight2k3	that looks like the problem
01:26:18	LinusN	no, that's not a problem
01:26:30	midknight2k3	it goes slow for me
01:26:34	LinusN	that timeout is not for the peak meter
01:26:40	midknight2k3	the whole LCD goes slow
01:26:48	LinusN	midknight2k3: are you sure that your radio.c is up to date?
01:26:54	midknight2k3	the station skipping goes like 2-3 at a time until you hold
01:27:01	midknight2k3	yes it has the button bar so it must be right
01:27:19	midknight2k3	if you go click click click it will only update every 2 or 3 stations
01:27:26	midknight2k3	aka every 1/2 second or so
01:30:57	LinusN	yeah, that's a bug i have fixed but not committed
01:33:22		Join thedude02 [0] (~thefirstd@pm475-32.dialip.mich.net)
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01:50:56	klaxon	bye all thx linusn
01:51:02	LinusN	you're welcome
01:51:03	midknight2k3	bye
01:51:04		Quit klaxon ("Ahwoooga!")
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02:00
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02:17:15	thedude02	Hillo
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02:17:37	midknight2k3	hi jet
02:19:10	thedude02	hillo
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02:49:49	Jet8810	hey midknisht
02:49:55	midknight2k3	hi
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02:50:30	midknight2k3	diddystar!
02:50:34	diddystar50	hey!!!!!!!!!!
02:50:40	midknight2k3	vu meter away
02:50:44	diddystar50	!
02:50:54	diddystar50	is my text being doubled?
02:50:59	midknight2k3	?
02:51:02	midknight2k3	no
02:51:20	diddystar50	rolands irc page is down, and i had to find another client
02:51:32	midknight2k3	hah
02:52:35	diddystar50	lol all the text is doubled on my screen
02:52:48	diddystar50	or maybe im drunken lol
02:52:57	midknight2k3	hehe
02:55:47	LinusN	time to sleep
02:55:51	LinusN	nite all
02:55:52	midknight2k3	night!
02:56:00		Part LinusN
03:00
03:06:58		Join hardeep [0] (hardeeps@norge.freeshell.org)
03:07:10	midknight2k3	hi hardeep
03:07:22	midknight2k3	i'm in the credits, im in the credits, woo woo, wooo woooooooo
03:07:25	diddystar50	hey hardeep!
03:07:32	diddystar50	me 2!
03:08:00	Jet8810	hey hardeep
03:08:08	midknight2k3	lol
03:08:11	hardeep	hello
03:08:13	midknight2k3	stop crowding hardeep
03:08:20	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:08:21	hardeep	midknight2k3: nice :)
03:08:26	Jet8810	hehe
03:08:31	hardeep	diddystar50: nice :)
03:08:36	diddystar50	:)
03:08:49	midknight2k3	lol
03:08:54	midknight2k3	ya ya ya ya YA ya
03:09:09	diddystar50	PARTY TIME!!!!!
03:09:27	midknight2k3	WOO WOOO
03:09:31	*	midknight2k3 throws a party
03:09:37	midknight2k3	ok party over
03:11:48	Jet8810	wow
03:11:53	Jet8810	its really hard to find a local sponsor a child
03:11:58	Jet8810	or jus tsomething of the sort...
03:12:06	midknight2k3	oh yeah
03:12:08	midknight2k3	lol
03:12:09	Jet8810	but I want it local, I dont want huge multinational, international charity
03:12:10	Jet8810	lol
03:13:14	Jet8810	am I thinking about this donating thing WAY too much?
03:13:19	midknight2k3	yes
03:13:25	midknight2k3	very overthunk
03:13:26	Jet8810	haha
03:13:37	Jet8810	so whats your reccomendation?
03:13:44	midknight2k3	hmm
03:13:50	midknight2k3	stop overthinking it
03:13:54	midknight2k3	the answer will come
03:14:02	midknight2k3	such as
03:14:09	midknight2k3	DEAD PAPER!
03:14:10	Jet8810	heh
03:14:12	Jet8810	well I dont overthink it
03:14:19	Jet8810	I have though tabout it like twice briefly since I mentioned it to you
03:14:24	Jet8810	but I really would like to donate the money
03:14:25	midknight2k3	okay
03:14:25	Jet8810	haha
03:15:34	Jet8810	so, hows life?
03:15:51	midknight2k3	good
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03:18:27	diddystar5	bye have to go home
03:18:44	diddystar5	sorry i couldnt stay longer
03:18:47	diddystar5	bye
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03:21:08	midknight2k3	bye all
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04:22:56	scott666	anyone here?
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07:30:59	dwihno	I have returned.
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12:27:59	Dogger	hey
12:30:02	webmind	oi
12:30:10	Dogger	oi 2 you 2
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13:00
13:04:44	dwihno	Howdy Dogger!
13:04:53	Dogger	hi dwihno
13:05:12	dwihno	Dogger: What's up?
13:05:43	Dogger	everything :(
13:05:50	Dogger	have a bad cold :(
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13:10:01	dwihno	Sheez :/
13:10:06	dwihno	So what's up with AVOS?
13:10:10	dwihno	I read something about legal stuff :)
13:10:15	dwihno	Did Archos screw you up?
13:10:15	Dogger	yeah!
13:10:18	LinusN	don't get him started :-)
13:10:35	Dogger	Archos got their heavies in
13:10:42	Dogger	they came round my house and took all my stuff
13:10:51	Dogger	said 'this should pay for the damage you've done'
13:11:09	Dogger	then they gave me a bloody nose, stole my laptop and said next time, we'll break your knees
13:12:52	Hes	you sure that was not the mafia?
13:13:34	Dogger	I believe the mafia OWN Archos
13:13:49	Dogger	they have also embedded bombs in all archos products,
13:13:55	Dogger	which can be set off remotely
13:14:03	Dogger	they just release a new firmware,
13:14:10	Dogger	with the code that says 'blow up'
13:14:13	Hes	No, that's Nokia, they've put the bombs in the batteries.
13:14:14	LinusN	You wanna know where all the Rockbox donations go?
13:14:15	Dogger	and there is mass suicide
13:14:34	Dogger	:)
13:14:37	LinusN	we pay Archos for "protection"
13:14:58	Dogger	and in return they dont come round YOUR house and take all your stuff
13:15:20	LinusN	yup
13:15:39	LinusN	:-)
13:15:53	LinusN	i gotta fly
13:15:58	LinusN	cu around
13:16:03	dwihno	Bye L
13:16:06	Dogger	nah that cant be it... I offered to pay archos money to do this ages ago
13:16:09	Dogger	ok laters :)
13:16:11	dwihno	Dogger: Seriosley though. What happened?
13:16:14		Part LinusN
13:16:31	Dogger	dwihno: they have passed it to their atourney
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14:37:30	dwihno	Dogger: tell me all the dirty details! :)
14:45:48	Dogger	hey
14:45:48	Dogger	thats probably not a good idea
14:45:59	Dogger	I think when legal people contact you, you should prolly keep it to yourself
14:46:07	Dogger	just to be safe
14:49:25	dwihno	True.
14:49:29	dwihno	Are they being nasty?
14:49:31	dwihno	:-(
14:49:49	Dogger	yeah pretty nasty
14:49:59	dwihno	:-[
14:50:03	Dogger	they will prolly go out of business if they carry on being so stupid
14:52:35	dwihno	Is it really illegal to crack an encryption algorithm? Or providing tools to do it?
14:52:48	dwihno	I mean, they haven't done anything nasty (as far as I know) to the RockBox project.
14:54:08	webmind	dwihno, depends on the country ?
14:54:46	Dogger	its not illegal at all
14:54:51	Dogger	in this case
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14:55:10	Dogger	its publicly available algorithms, that anyone with half a brain would think of anyway
14:55:23	Dogger	releasing KEYS etc however, may be illegal
14:55:34	Dogger	think that comes under trade secrets
14:56:39	dwihno	Dogger: Well, if the keys are stored in the file, you just provide the offsets and descrambling routines :)
14:57:17	Dogger	well the keys arent' stored in the file as it is! That would be even stupider than Archos are
14:58:20	dwihno	Okay.
14:59:07	Dogger	if you know about cryptography you dont need the keys though anyway
15:00
15:00:31	dsg	Dogger: Actually in the US it might be illegal because of the stupid DMCa.
15:01:00	dsg	Pretty much any attempt at circumventing "encryption" in products is illegal under that.
15:01:06	Dogger	REing for purposes of interoperbility, OR for purposes of porting an OS are explicitly allowed
15:01:19	Dogger	depends on your definition of encryption then
15:01:31	Dogger	I would not class this as encryption
15:01:42	Dogger	just as the courts as far as I know decided deCSS was so lame it wasnt encryption either
15:02:00	dsg	Dogger: But I think a court would, because a court doesn't really know how encryption works.
15:02:12	dsg	Dogger: Well, the guys that broke CSS were from Norway.
15:02:18	dsg	Well, at least the one that was being hassled.
15:02:33	Dogger	sure...
15:02:40	Dogger	I'm from europe
15:02:45	Dogger	oh well doesnt matter anyway
15:02:48	dsg	Ah. You should be safe then ;)
15:02:56	Dogger	I will continue to develop my own apps privately
15:03:22	Dogger	SO ironic americans think they are free
15:03:26	dsg	But what, is Archos threatening something because of the AV firmware stuff?
15:03:34	Dogger	they treasure their constitution
15:03:34	Dogger	free speach etc
15:03:35	dsg	Yeah.
15:03:42	Dogger	they are the most repressed nation I know!
15:03:44	dsg	"Land of the free and the proud" indeed ;)
15:04:05	Dogger	you cant move in the US unless a corporation says its ok
15:04:21	ze	haha
15:04:42	ze	it's a big country, with a big mix of people with a big mix of lifestyle
15:04:57	ze	thats only true for the cattle population
15:04:58	ze	:p
15:05:44	dsg	Well... I'm from Iceland, the law situation is in most ways decent.
15:05:55	dsg	Actually in the Netherlands at the moment though.
15:06:18	dsg	I think in Iceland there's a law clause that specifically allows reverse-engineering.
15:06:21	dsg	Which is nice.
15:08:04	webmind	dsg, on concearning press your one of the most free countries
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15:10:10	Dogger	as I say before though
15:10:10	Dogger	just say I make tables for a living
15:10:17	Dogger	a new table comes out which is brilliant
15:10:23	Dogger	I want to see how they built it
15:10:23	Dogger	so I take it to bits
15:10:34	Dogger	oh! they put on security screws, and I haven't got the right screwdriver,
15:10:41	Dogger	but I make my own screwdriver to get round it
15:10:49	Dogger	I find out how they made the table
15:11:10	Dogger	are they gonna sue me for reverse engineering a table and circumventing security measures???
15:11:54	dwihno	Of course! :)
15:12:14	Dogger	that would be a cool court case :)
15:12:21	Dogger	would love to see them argue that
15:12:36	Dogger	ok, so I bought this table, but I'm not allowed to do what I want with it?
15:12:40	Dogger	I can blow it up and you dont mind,
15:12:46	Dogger	but if I take it to bits you do?
15:12:55	Dogger	absolute stupidity
15:13:39	dsg	Yup.
15:48:16	MT	hmm
15:48:27	MT	i cant even see them having a case under DMCA tbh
15:48:56	MT	the encryption of the firmware in no way relates to a copy protection mechanism
15:49:26	MT	however, breaking the ecryption is required to have 'fair use' of the device
15:49:45	MT	have you contacted EFF?
15:53:35	Dogger	yep
15:53:41	Dogger	maybe meeting them sometime
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18:17:35	Ratamahatta	Hello
18:17:39	hardeep	hi
18:18:17	Ratamahatta	I have got the 6000 and want to install the rockbox 2.0 firmware
18:18:45	hardeep	Ratamahatta: excellent choice. :) although i'd recommend installing one of the daily builds instead
18:19:39	Ratamahatta	but there is no archos.mod fil
18:19:46	Ratamahatta	is it in the ROM ?
18:20:01	hardeep	Ratamahatta: ah, on your jukebox?
18:21:05	hardeep	Ratamahatta: if so, yes, the archos.mod file is in rom
18:21:17	Ratamahatta	If i install the Firmware, how can i delete it?
18:21:17	hardeep	Ratamahatta: you can download the file from their website if you want
18:21:23	hardeep	Ratamahatta: just delete the file
18:21:33	Ratamahatta	Thank you
18:21:44		Join AciD [0] (~acid@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net)
18:25:53	Ratamahatta	how long do you use the rockbox firmware?
18:27:47	Ratamahatta	Are the daily builds better?
18:27:50	hardeep	rockbox v1.0 was released about a year and a half ago
18:27:57	Ratamahatta	Are the daily builds better?
18:28:11	hardeep	Ratamahatta: yes, there have been many new features/changes/bug fixes since the 2.0 release
18:28:36	Ratamahatta	then i take 2.0 release
18:28:40	Ratamahatta	good bye
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19:00:57		Quit edx ()
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19:04:32	Ratamahatta	here i am
19:04:39	Ratamahatta	talk?
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19:14:11	Ratamahatta	There comes a message diretory buffer is full help
19:14:23	Ratamahatta	please help me
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19:18:10	[IDC]Dragon	Ratamahatta: you must have a large dir. There's an option to increase the buffer, then you need to restart for this to have an effect.
19:19:31	[IDC]Dragon	general settings -> system -> max files in dir browser
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19:20:29	rockboxer	can anyone help me with the directory buffer
19:20:50	[IDC]Dragon	<[IDC]Dragon> Ratamahatta: you must have a large dir. There's an option to increase the buffer, then you need to restart for this to have an effect.
19:20:50	[IDC]Dragon	<[IDC]Dragon> general settings -> system -> max files in dir browser
19:22:02	rockboxer	max files in dir browser?
19:22:06	rockboxer	i got 2.0
19:22:22	[IDC]Dragon	get the latest
19:22:25	[IDC]Dragon	brb
19:22:29	rockboxer	where?
19:24:19		Quit [OFF]BtT (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
19:30:17	[IDC]Dragon	http://rockbox.haxx.se/daily.shtml
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19:41:54		Quit hardeep ("BitchX WWW Site -- http://we.got.net/~brian/")
19:45:56	rockboxer	there are so much
19:46:22	rockboxer	wich of the 72?
19:47:13	rockboxer	85
19:47:23	rockboxer	mods rock full ?
19:52:51		Quit rockboxer ()
20:00
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20:38:07		Join klaxon [0] (~klaxon@66.88.20.185)
20:38:49	klaxon	hey something really wierd happened. does the jbr have an internal speaker/buzzer?
20:39:12	klaxon	it was in my back pocket and when i sat down it made a noise like a car alarm
20:39:30	klaxon	my headphones weren't even plugged in.
20:39:33	klaxon	am i crazy?
20:39:57	cjnr11	it's probably the HD
20:40:03	klaxon	?
20:40:25	cjnr11	the HD can make noise
20:40:48	klaxon	noise, lik besides click click head seeks and spinups
20:41:06	klaxon	this was like an alarm wha-wha-wha
20:41:49	cjnr11	sometimes my JBMM makes a noise like that
20:42:19	klaxon	really?? what is it!
20:42:35	cjnr11	I don't know
20:43:23	klaxon	``so don't do that'' is the obvious solution
20:43:32	cjnr11	but it's the HD when I move the jb too fast
20:43:50	cjnr11	when it's on of course
20:45:26	klaxon	okay so perhaps its some sort of physical distress alarm from the disk mechanism.
20:45:49	klaxon	i was really startled. my headphones were not plugged in, and my house was quiet.
20:50:57		Join [OFF]BtT [0] (~quasi@80.238.199.45)
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21:00
21:00:01		Join Zagor [242] (bjst@as9-5-6.k.s.bonet.se)
21:08:40	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:18:48	thedude02	PEOPLES! say "something"!
21:20:10	Zagor	something
21:20:21	thedude02	TYHANK YOU!
21:20:23	elinenbe	something
21:20:28	elinenbe	hello Zagor
21:20:31	Zagor	hi
21:20:33	thedude02	finally someone said something!
21:20:33	elinenbe	how are you doing?
21:20:35	thedude02	something
21:20:51	elinenbe	I like the recent activity with rockbox. rockbox GETS BETTER!
21:20:52	elinenbe	:D
21:21:22	Zagor	yeah, linus has gone nuts and commits like crazy :)
21:21:36	thedude02	true, very true
21:21:50	thedude02	I read midknight and his conversation yesterday
21:23:33	thedude02	or part of it
21:24:02		Join top_bloke [0] (assw@0-1pool12-64.nas6.oakbrook1.il.us.da.qwest.net)
21:24:48	*	thedude02 says what's up?
21:24:55	thedude02	what's up?
21:25:03	top_bloke	nothing
21:25:20	thedude02	heck
21:25:33	thedude02	bedanger it
21:25:39	top_bloke	?
21:25:45	thedude02	I was hoping that something would be up
21:25:48	thedude02	lol
21:25:55	thedude02	:-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
21:25:55	top_bloke	well its not
21:25:57	top_bloke	sorry
21:26:02	thedude02	oh well
21:26:07	thedude02	anyone else?
21:26:54	thedude02	mind if I spam?
21:27:03	thedude02	come to #fld
21:27:19	thedude02	thnk you
21:39:55		Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (~idc-drago@pD95120F9.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:40:42	thedude02	goodBYE!
21:40:47		Quit thedude02 ()
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23:08:42	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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23:33:50		Quit cjnr11 ()
23:39:47		Join miner_69er [0] (miner_69er@82-32-41-14.cable.ubr06.azte.blueyonder.co.uk)
23:40:17	miner_69er	hi there guys! I'm only on for a minute or so - does anyone want a copy of my new Rock - Snake2?
23:40:31	scott666	what is it?
23:41:04	miner_69er	an updated version of the snake game!
23:41:11	miner_69er	..it'sa only a bit of fun
23:41:16	scott666	whatd you change?
23:41:48	miner_69er	well, i'ver made the snake look snakier, added a wall or loop around options and speeded it up
23:41:59	miner_69er	it's nicer
23:44:45	miner_69er	ok, in that case, if noones interested can i ask a question on code formatting conventions?
23:45:25	scott666	you saw the faq, right?
23:45:37	miner_69er	yeah, buit i'
23:46:23	miner_69er	oops, sorry. i'm still a tad confused about 'tabs' what's the difference between Unix and non-unix tabs?
23:46:53	scott666	no idea
23:47:11	miner_69er	hang on, i'll just check the faq again...
23:47:14	scott666	find a text editor that does unix formatting and check it
23:48:06	miner_69er	right, tgh
23:48:17	miner_69er	thats what i need...
23:48:53	miner_69er	i'm just using notepad (in XP!!)
23:49:28	miner_69er	i just don't want to enter a patch and have it ripped apart by not looking correct in linux
23:50:27	Dogger	best solution?
23:50:28		Quit miner_69er (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:50:29	Dogger	install linux
23:51:06	scott666	second best solution?
23:51:16	scott666	get a notepad replacement off sourceforge.net
23:58:16		Quit Dogger ("Client Exiting")
23:58:17		Quit Cheek (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))

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