| 00:00:34 | [IDC]Dragon | not if they're fixed size, or fragments of it |
| 00:00:47 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 00:00:50 | [IDC]Dragon | (here comes the malloc discussion again :) |
| 00:00:58 | LinusN | size doesn't matter in this case |
| 00:01:15 | BC|code | Linus: she's just being polite - lol |
| 00:01:19 | LinusN | the disk reading benefits immensely from the consecutive buffer |
| 00:01:40 | [IDC]Dragon | yes, that's worth keeping |
| 00:01:41 | LinusN | reading chunk by chunk will slow it down a lot |
| 00:02:09 | | Join Sebulba02 [0] (~Sebulba02@dialup-67.31.192.137.Dial1.Tampa1.Level3.net) |
| 00:02:34 | Laurent_ | waow, the cache buffer in the hitachi travelstar is 2Mb |
| 00:04:00 | Laurent_ | with consumption going down from 1.85W (when reading) to 0.65W with a peak at 4.7W when starting |
| 00:04:42 | kurzhaarrocker | Lets say the file source buffer is nothing else but the most part of the whole source buffer then the advantages of the current disk reading benefits could remain. |
| 00:05:20 | LinusN | kurzhaarrocker: and the rest of the buffer would be? |
| 00:05:26 | kurzhaarrocker | the beep |
| 00:05:40 | Laurent_ | so idle mode consumes less than a third of reading mode (because of starting peak), and adds 2Mb worth of playing data without spinning the drive |
| 00:06:10 | LinusN | Laurent_: if the hard drive really cahed what we want |
| 00:06:11 | Laurent_ | might be interesting... but certainly tricky as was said |
| 00:06:20 | LinusN | it also caches the FAT |
| 00:06:27 | LinusN | may cache |
| 00:06:32 | Laurent_ | yup, this is the big constraint |
| 00:06:50 | kurzhaarrocker | Laurent_ if I recall correctly the 8 MB mod didn't help to reduce battery consumption by more then 25% |
| 00:07:00 | LinusN | my point is, you never know (and aren't supposed to know) what is in the cache |
| 00:07:21 | Laurent_ | LinusN: sure |
| 00:07:22 | [IDC]Dragon | this is encapsulated ;) |
| 00:07:26 | LinusN | :-) |
| 00:08:25 | [IDC]Dragon | May I summarize the (hypothetical) playback scenario: |
| 00:08:52 | Laurent_ | kurzhaarrocker: I imagine it comes from the fact that starting the drive is eating a lot of power |
| 00:08:59 | [IDC]Dragon | the source hands "a buffer" to the sink, together with a callback to query the next |
| 00:09:31 | [IDC]Dragon | this gets called on IRQ context and is free to define what's next |
| 00:10:10 | [IDC]Dragon | and there should be an inquire function to determine the position within the current buffer |
| 00:10:36 | [IDC]Dragon | what's the necessary reaction time to setup the next DMA? |
| 00:10:53 | LinusN | could be less than 1ms |
| 00:11:10 | [IDC]Dragon | >10000 clocks |
| 00:11:30 | [IDC]Dragon | but less than our heartbeat IRQ |
| 00:12:07 | [IDC]Dragon | I was thinking if the callback has time to post into a queue |
| 00:12:21 | [IDC]Dragon | so the next buffer can be passed outside of IRQ |
| 00:12:26 | LinusN | a context switch can take forever |
| 00:13:47 | [IDC]Dragon | so the next will have to be given in IRQ context |
| 00:14:18 | | Join Phil [0] (~Philipp@Be576.b.pppool.de) |
| 00:14:28 | [IDC]Dragon | if the app ever wants transition into normal mode, it has to work with at least 2 buffer parts |
| 00:14:29 | Phil | doofer provider |
| 00:14:48 | Mode | "#rockbox +o LinusN " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 00:14:50 | [IDC]Dragon | I thought kurzhaarrocker is Phil |
| 00:14:52 | | Quit Sebulba02 ("grr") |
| 00:14:57 | LinusN | kick kurzhaarrocker? |
| 00:15:01 | Phil | yes |
| 00:15:03 | Kick | (#rockbox kurzhaarrocker :LinusN) by LinusN!~linus@labb.contactor.se |
| 00:15:14 | Laurent_ | does anyone know the current "streaming" algorithm for MP3 files ? |
| 00:15:33 | LinusN | Laurent_: what do you want to know? |
| 00:16:06 | | Nick Phil is now known as kurzhaarrocker (~Philipp@Be576.b.pppool.de) |
| 00:16:54 | MT | Laurent_: do you mean like (shout|ice)cast? |
| 00:16:55 | Laurent_ | at which moment the hard drive gets started again : it must be quite a while before the buffer terminates otherwise there might be problems and the user can always do a fast forward |
| 00:17:10 | Laurent_ | MT: no, for rockbox ;) |
| 00:17:19 | MT | aha, nm :) |
| 00:18:39 | LinusN | Laurent_: we have a low watermark which is calculated from the hard drive speed) |
| 00:18:58 | kurzhaarrocker | and the bitrate of the mp3 |
| 00:19:37 | Laurent_ | I guess this one determines when to start prefetching in order to be ready for any fast forward |
| 00:19:55 | Laurent_ | ? |
| 00:20:02 | LinusN | it is currently spinup_time*3 + watermark_margin (in seconds) |
| 00:20:14 | kurzhaarrocker | Is there prefetchen while ffwd? |
| 00:20:19 | kurzhaarrocker | prefetching |
| 00:20:22 | LinusN | kurzhaarrocker: no |
| 00:20:39 | Laurent_ | * 3 ? quite a big margin |
| 00:20:45 | LinusN | yes |
| 00:21:22 | LinusN | 10-15 seconds |
| 00:21:42 | Laurent_ | what do you mean by "no prefetching while ffwding" ? that the song eventually stops if the user keeps ffwding ? |
| 00:21:42 | kurzhaarrocker | Laurent_ asume you're shaking your drive and it need time to find its heads again. |
| 00:21:46 | LinusN | we may be able to adjust that, since we have optimized the bitswapping since then |
| 00:22:10 | LinusN | Laurent_: ffing in rockbox is silent |
| 00:22:25 | LinusN | it reloads the buffer when you release the ff key |
| 00:22:46 | Laurent_ | ok I see |
| 00:23:13 | LinusN | silent ff is one of the reasons we are discussing the buffer handling right now |
| 00:23:21 | kurzhaarrocker | :) |
| 00:23:23 | Laurent_ | ;) |
| 00:23:29 | kurzhaarrocker | I want it LOUD! |
| 00:24:20 | [IDC]Dragon | speaking about discussing: I'd be out to bed soon |
| 00:24:44 | LinusN | sweet dreams (about sources and sinks) |
| 00:24:51 | * | Laurent_ wants a laptop to code from bed |
| 00:24:53 | Laurent_ | ;) |
| 00:24:57 | [IDC]Dragon | not yet |
| 00:25:09 | kurzhaarrocker | Laurent_: Thats what I do. |
| 00:25:13 | [IDC]Dragon | just trying to focus for a few last minutes |
| 00:25:18 | Laurent_ | kurzhaarrocker: lol ;) |
| 00:25:46 | [IDC]Dragon | I have a webpad to read email and IRC logs from bed |
| 00:26:15 | [IDC]Dragon | but no notebook |
| 00:26:25 | BC|code | rf keyboard and binoculars :) |
| 00:26:49 | [IDC]Dragon | anyway, do we have any conclusions yet? |
| 00:27:07 | kurzhaarrocker | Yes we want the source to provide the buffer to the sink |
| 00:27:40 | [IDC]Dragon | Nr.1, OK |
| 00:27:53 | kurzhaarrocker | We (I) want to be able to control where the sink reads the buffer |
| 00:28:10 | [IDC]Dragon | next we don't know how to steer the sink in there |
| 00:28:24 | kurzhaarrocker | We want to keep the benefits of the continuous buffer for performance reasons while reading from a file |
| 00:29:01 | kurzhaarrocker | [IDC]Dragon Yes, how to steer the sink is still pending |
| 00:29:14 | | Join diddystar5 [0] (Lee@ACC4461F.ipt.aol.com) |
| 00:29:22 | [IDC]Dragon | the buffer transition is critical |
| 00:29:25 | LinusN | and the "loop from here to here" instructions comes from a third party, not the sink, not the source |
| 00:29:32 | diddystar5 | LinusN: i finished al og scale for the vu meter |
| 00:29:39 | kurzhaarrocker | LinusN: right |
| 00:29:41 | LinusN | diddystar5: wowee! |
| 00:29:41 | BC|code | heyyyyyyy diddy |
| 00:30:01 | * | BC|code does some kind of cheerleader dance |
| 00:30:09 | [IDC]Dragon | LinusN: why does the source not govern the loop? |
| 00:30:11 | kurzhaarrocker | diddystar5: have you been able to use peakmeter code for that? |
| 00:30:29 | kurzhaarrocker | [IDC]Dragon the source doesn't know what to loop |
| 00:30:36 | diddystar5 | kurzhaarrocker: no peakmeter code in it at all |
| 00:30:41 | [IDC]Dragon | who else? |
| 00:30:51 | LinusN | the user |
| 00:31:01 | kurzhaarrocker | [IDC]Dragon the application that uses the source |
| 00:31:09 | [IDC]Dragon | I'm viewing "the source" as what feeds the sink, |
| 00:31:19 | [IDC]Dragon | not necessarily the file. |
| 00:31:38 | kurzhaarrocker | diddystar5: Have you a db scaling? |
| 00:32:02 | kurzhaarrocker | [IDC]Dragon: Thats what I meant the source that is based on a file |
| 00:32:21 | diddystar5 | kurzhaarrocker: yes, thats also refered to logarithmic scale |
| 00:32:31 | | Quit Lowfiler ("[using [DeViL'z IRC] (build 4.0) by [ins4ne] from dIRC.scriptingBoard.") |
| 00:32:48 | [IDC]Dragon | I'm still a bit confused. Can you explain your loop scenario? |
| 00:33:31 | kurzhaarrocker | diddystar5: would you mind mailing me the code? Maybe your db scaling can be reused if it outperforms the one in peakmeter. |
| 00:34:15 | BC|code | straight table lookup |
| 00:34:19 | Laurent_ | I wonder if it's possible to convert from ogg to mp3 without decoding/recoding completely ? |
| 00:34:23 | kurzhaarrocker | [IDC]Dragon: The user hits a button to mark the A point, the user hits a button to mark the B point. These playback loops from a->b |
| 00:34:29 | Laurent_ | (I guess it's not but who knows ?) |
| 00:34:31 | diddystar5 | kurzhaarrocker: can you use dcc? |
| 00:34:52 | kurzhaarrocker | diddystar5: I might be firewalled, try. |
| 00:34:59 | [IDC]Dragon | kurzhaarrocker: I'm not concerned about the user, I mean your source/feed model. |
| 00:36:29 | kurzhaarrocker | [IDC]Dragon You're right: the source must be told what to loop, too in order to provide the right data if reload is needed |
| 00:38:07 | LinusN | a simple loop_start=stream_offset assignment |
| 00:39:28 | kurzhaarrocker | that would be sufficiant for the start point. But what happens at the end of the loop |
| 00:39:46 | [IDC]Dragon | would that mean we have to take away data from the sink which has already been passed to it? |
| 00:40:02 | [IDC]Dragon | Like, the playback reaches close to point B, |
| 00:40:17 | [IDC]Dragon | buffer has been committed way past it, |
| 00:40:31 | [IDC]Dragon | the the user decides to loop until there? |
| 00:40:37 | [IDC]Dragon | then the |
| 00:40:47 | kurzhaarrocker | yes, the source may be forced to reload data |
| 00:42:09 | kurzhaarrocker | That currently is a problem: When you rewind to a point the playback starts and the data played back is freed instantly. If you now rewind to the start point the data may have been overwritten and may need reloading. |
| 00:43:00 | [IDC]Dragon | yes, but for which "window" do you want to optimize? |
| 00:43:25 | [IDC]Dragon | continuous play is the most likely one, I'd say. |
| 00:44:47 | Laurent_ | does 0.51307588 look like a reasonable executable compression factor to you ? looks so to me |
| 00:44:48 | kurzhaarrocker | Lets optimize for continuous play |
| 00:44:55 | [IDC]Dragon | (afk) |
| 00:45:45 | kurzhaarrocker | Just if we loop we should calculate wether all the loop fits into the buffer. The source knows its buffer and if it controls the loop points, too there's no problem. |
| 00:46:24 | kurzhaarrocker | Other applications (like speech synthesizers) are a completely different beast. |
| 00:47:14 | BC|code | for spch syth, the most logical option is to store a permanent cache of phonemes |
| 00:47:28 | kurzhaarrocker | Thats what I meant |
| 00:47:42 | BC|code | sorry, not following CLOSELY |
| 00:48:02 | Laurent_ | given the nature of phonemes, they might even be MP3 coded in realtime |
| 00:48:15 | BC|code | why!? |
| 00:48:29 | BC|code | for blending? |
| 00:48:42 | Laurent_ | (combination of simple sine waves -> should give pretty simple MP3s no ? |
| 00:48:50 | kurzhaarrocker | But the source could consist of two sources: like the real mp3 source and a control source. The control source tells from where in the buffer to jump where to. |
| 00:49:02 | kurzhaarrocker | (mp3 source == buffer) |
| 00:49:14 | Laurent_ | BC|code: if I understood well, the archos can only play mp3 sounds ? |
| 00:49:20 | LinusN | yes |
| 00:49:25 | BC|code | why encode realtime? |
| 00:49:44 | BC|code | atm |
| 00:49:48 | Laurent_ | to gain memory, but it's only a thought, that might proove not feasible |
| 00:50:29 | Laurent_ | i'm not an mp3 expert at all so consider this unrealistic ;) |
| 00:50:34 | BC|code | storing wavs to be encoded or generating phoneme sounds would likely need more memory than ?43? 1/10S samples |
| 00:51:02 | BC|code | ...at a LOW low sample rate |
| 00:51:31 | MT | call me a cynic |
| 00:51:39 | Laurent_ | ADPCM might be used to reduce memory for a very small CPU footprint |
| 00:51:46 | Laurent_ | memory consumption |
| 00:51:55 | MT | but the quality/naturalness of the speech doesnt need to be fantastic |
| 00:52:03 | MT | it just needs to be understandable |
| 00:52:22 | BC|code | for anything other than MP3 we need to get deeper into the MAS hardware |
| 00:52:26 | MT | so blending sine waves and then encoding to mp3 to play (if it were even remotely possible) |
| 00:52:32 | MT | seems worthless tome |
| 00:53:04 | BC|code | blending would be nice ...but this will become a realistic option when we get WAV playback |
| 00:53:07 | Laurent_ | BC|code: I meant ADPCM to store phonemes to be encoded |
| 00:53:46 | BC|code | and a super-basic mp3 compressor that will run realtime at 12MHz? |
| 00:53:52 | [IDC]Dragon | back again |
| 00:54:04 | Laurent_ | BC|code: seems difficult ;) |
| 00:54:05 | kurzhaarrocker | The normal dma would end on a ENDPOINT. Each time a DEI occurs the sink could ask the source where to jump to a STARTPOINT |
| 00:54:29 | BC|code | Laurent_: everything is difficult until you know how its done |
| 00:54:51 | [IDC]Dragon | thinking more about it, the bitswap is nasty, because it "destroys" or data |
| 00:55:23 | [IDC]Dragon | we can play it again, if we note that it's swapped, but its more or less unreadable to the software |
| 00:56:10 | Laurent_ | I used to read something equivalent in people's signatures : "any sufficiently advanced technology is virtually indistinguishable from magic" |
| 00:56:34 | kurzhaarrocker | But for reading the bitswapped data by software realtime isn't really necessary. We could make reading functions that do the backbitswapping. |
| 00:56:44 | kurzhaarrocker | oh, forget it. stupid idea |
| 00:57:26 | [IDC]Dragon | for audible FF/FR, this is necessary, I think |
| 00:57:37 | [IDC]Dragon | I wonder how Archos does it |
| 00:57:59 | diddystar5 | by everyone |
| 00:58:18 | BC|code | buy |
| 00:58:18 | | Quit diddystar5 ("Leaving") |
| 00:58:36 | kurzhaarrocker | If all our purpose is to pass the data to the mas we needn't care that it is already bitswapped. |
| 00:59:01 | kurzhaarrocker | The start / end points are untouched |
| 00:59:10 | LinusN | [IDC]Dragon: archos doesn't care about playing exactly from the frame start |
| 00:59:14 | [IDC]Dragon | if we want to parse it to find the blocks, we do |
| 00:59:25 | kurzhaarrocker | Why should we? |
| 00:59:39 | LinusN | for better sound, i think |
| 00:59:41 | kurzhaarrocker | That should be done before it is put into the buffer |
| 00:59:55 | LinusN | less clicking |
| 01:00 |
| 01:00:26 | kurzhaarrocker | Yes, but the source can define the point on frame boundaried and afterwards we can bitswap whatever we want. |
| 01:00:37 | [IDC]Dragon | maybe we should do early bitswap then |
| 01:00:38 | kurzhaarrocker | boundaries |
| 01:00:55 | [IDC]Dragon | and have the parser read only such data |
| 01:01:15 | kurzhaarrocker | Why do wa want to parse data in the buffer? |
| 01:01:24 | LinusN | finding the frame starting points is time/cpu consuming |
| 01:01:25 | kurzhaarrocker | The points can be calculated before |
| 01:01:51 | [IDC]Dragon | to feed, say, every 1 out of 5 frames |
| 01:02:06 | [IDC]Dragon | for FF/FR while listening |
| 01:02:08 | LinusN | [IDC]Dragon: bad move |
| 01:02:23 | kurzhaarrocker | you mean for ffwd? I'd ignore frame boundaries while ffwd. |
| 01:02:39 | [IDC]Dragon | or every 5 out of 25 |
| 01:02:50 | LinusN | sounds better |
| 01:03:32 | LinusN | actually, the mas is pretty good at resynchronizing, so we could go for an "X bytes" approach to start with |
| 01:03:36 | kurzhaarrocker | yes but while ffwd.. |
| 01:04:25 | [IDC]Dragon | can you tell it the next data is out of sync? |
| 01:04:42 | kurzhaarrocker | It mutes it automatically, I think |
| 01:05:05 | kurzhaarrocker | It ignores data without a frame sync header |
| 01:05:41 | [IDC]Dragon | but mp3 is not safe from "start code emulation" |
| 01:06:03 | [IDC]Dragon | meaning, data that looks like a header, in the payload |
| 01:06:14 | [IDC]Dragon | but it's a start. |
| 01:06:55 | [IDC]Dragon | as LinusN says. |
| 01:07:11 | kurzhaarrocker | [IDC]Dragon do you mean an mp3 frame could contain data that looks like frame sync header? |
| 01:07:20 | [IDC]Dragon | yes |
| 01:07:36 | kurzhaarrocker | And believe LinusN, he knows much more about mp3 than me |
| 01:07:49 | [IDC]Dragon | to resync with mor confidence, you have to checkthe interval to the next |
| 01:08:08 | [IDC]Dragon | but you can never be 10% shure |
| 01:08:11 | [IDC]Dragon | 100% |
| 01:08:40 | | Join DJBaz [0] (~baz@modem-418.llama.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 01:08:49 | LinusN | also, even if we start playing at a frame boundary, the sound may still be bad because of the bit reservoir |
| 01:08:53 | kurzhaarrocker | But that is only a concern while ffwd. If we have audiable ffwd on cost of occasional glitches I'd buy it. For everything else we don't really need realtime frame sync detection |
| 01:09:20 | [IDC]Dragon | bit reservoir also applies to the loop |
| 01:09:23 | | Quit AciD (Connection timed out) |
| 01:09:37 | [IDC]Dragon | you may have a click there |
| 01:09:50 | kurzhaarrocker | That's true, but here too I'd say let it click. |
| 01:09:55 | LinusN | my frame boundary finding code works pretty well, so we can use it |
| 01:09:58 | [IDC]Dragon | but who expects it seamless? |
| 01:10:12 | BC|code | [IDC]Dragon: are pixels taller or wider? |
| 01:10:21 | [IDC]Dragon | taller |
| 01:10:22 | LinusN | wider |
| 01:10:26 | LinusN | :-) |
| 01:10:28 | [IDC]Dragon | ? |
| 01:10:31 | | Join AciD [0] (~acid@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 01:10:41 | BC|code | errrr |
| 01:10:44 | [IDC]Dragon | they are more dense in X-direction |
| 01:11:03 | LinusN | ignore me |
| 01:11:08 | [IDC]Dragon | pixel aspect ratio is 0.8 |
| 01:11:10 | kurzhaarrocker | Seamless looping isn't necessary. But i crave for a split edtitor that splits on frame boundaries. |
| 01:11:27 | LinusN | kurzhaarrocker: do you use my functions for that? |
| 01:11:38 | kurzhaarrocker | I saw something, yes. |
| 01:11:49 | BC|code | [IDC]Dragon: thanks, yes I recall 0.8, but wasn't sure which way ...so w=0.8h :) |
| 01:12:02 | kurzhaarrocker | But momentarily I don't use anything but the time info |
| 01:12:03 | LinusN | they find the next split point when switching files when recording |
| 01:12:21 | [IDC]Dragon | well, I'm out for tonight |
| 01:12:30 | kurzhaarrocker | Oh, you mean the option to disable the bit reservoir? |
| 01:12:30 | LinusN | cu [IDC]Dragon |
| 01:12:37 | kurzhaarrocker | cu |
| 01:12:38 | LinusN | kurzhaarrocker: no |
| 01:12:45 | BC|code | nite Dragon |
| 01:12:56 | [IDC]Dragon | cu logbot |
| 01:13:00 | [IDC]Dragon | ;) |
| 01:13:07 | | Quit [IDC]Dragon () |
| 01:13:16 | LinusN | kurzhaarrocker: but you should really consider using that option |
| 01:13:37 | LinusN | the "independent frames" |
| 01:13:45 | | Join Guest [0] (~jirc@cpe-66-1-26-232.az.sprintbbd.net) |
| 01:13:50 | LinusN | hi guest |
| 01:13:55 | Guest | hi |
| 01:14:10 | kurzhaarrocker | LinusN I thought that was disabling the bitreservoir |
| 01:14:15 | LinusN | it is |
| 01:14:34 | kurzhaarrocker | The recording option? I have it on always. :) |
| 01:14:57 | kurzhaarrocker | But I saw the comment in mpeg.c 1984 |
| 01:15:21 | kurzhaarrocker | And then I thought. What a pity, it's not a function. |
| 01:15:52 | kurzhaarrocker | stupid me: did not see mem_find_next_frame |
| 01:15:56 | Guest | does anyone have the recorder plugin for a archos Gmini120? after paying so much for it im not too fond of giving them more money so i can use a mic thats already part of the player.. |
| 01:16:43 | LinusN | Guest: sorry |
| 01:16:46 | kurzhaarrocker | There's no gmini port of rockbox yet as far as I know |
| 01:16:56 | Guest | oh alright |
| 01:16:56 | Guest | thanks |
| 01:16:58 | | Quit Guest (Client Quit) |
| 01:16:59 | LinusN | kurzhaarrocker: he's talking about the archos code |
| 01:17:08 | kurzhaarrocker | ups |
| 01:17:13 | MT | but it got rid of him already :) |
| 01:17:37 | BC|code | you buy a serial number form archos to make your gmini work |
| 01:17:45 | kurzhaarrocker | I see |
| 01:17:59 | BC|code | if you want "record" buy another reg key |
| 01:18:03 | LinusN | i assume that it is tied to the hardware serial number |
| 01:18:20 | LinusN | so giving away a key would be pointless |
| 01:18:39 | * | kurzhaarrocker is glad he doesn't have that modern stuff. |
| 01:19:53 | kurzhaarrocker | LinusN something else: Are you working on that prerecord thing? |
| 01:20:13 | LinusN | as we speak |
| 01:21:16 | kurzhaarrocker | What do you think about a special rockbox file function: trunc an mp3 file at the head and fill it with a padding header. |
| 01:22:25 | LinusN | why? |
| 01:22:48 | kurzhaarrocker | That way we could use a prerecording file and whenever the disk spins up the head could be trimmed to the prerecord time. |
| 01:23:03 | kurzhaarrocker | -> no real prerecord ring file needed |
| 01:23:43 | Laurent_ | oops did not see guest questions |
| 01:23:56 | | Quit DJBaz (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 01:24:00 | kurzhaarrocker | Laurent_ shame on you |
| 01:24:01 | LinusN | you mean to delete all the prerecorded data (except for a defined margin)? |
| 01:24:09 | kurzhaarrocker | yes |
| 01:24:24 | kurzhaarrocker | and pad it with a reasonable header |
| 01:24:36 | LinusN | could be lots of padding data |
| 01:24:44 | LinusN | several minutes |
| 01:24:57 | Laurent_ | kurzhaarrocker: I would have been useless |
| 01:25:31 | kurzhaarrocker | LinusN how big is a fat sector? |
| 01:25:36 | Laurent_ | the plugins seem to be machine specific : you give the serial number to archos to get access to the downloading url |
| 01:25:49 | kurzhaarrocker | Laurent_ I don't believe that you're useless. |
| 01:25:52 | LinusN | kurzhaarrocker: a sector in the ATA world is 512 bytes |
| 01:26:03 | BC|code | packet sniffer anyone? |
| 01:26:46 | kurzhaarrocker | So 512 bytes is the granularity and in the worst case the prepended file header had 512 padding bytes. |
| 01:27:01 | Laurent_ | kurzhaarrocker: I meant I could not have fulfilled his requests |
| 01:27:03 | kurzhaarrocker | That's not minutes of mp3 data |
| 01:28:44 | LinusN | kurzhaarrocker: i don't get it |
| 01:29:36 | kurzhaarrocker | Imagine you have a regular mp3 file and want to cut of the header. We don't need to rewrite the entire file. We could modify the fat so that the file starts at a different cluster. |
| 01:30:09 | LinusN | now you are talking clusters all of a sidden |
| 01:30:10 | LinusN | sudden |
| 01:30:25 | kurzhaarrocker | In case that we need prepend a complete id3 tag or something we could reserver a few extra clusters and relink the file. |
| 01:30:39 | LinusN | a cluster can be up to 64kbytes |
| 01:31:02 | kurzhaarrocker | Sorry my understanding of ata / fat is to limited. |
| 01:31:43 | kurzhaarrocker | The smalles chunk a file has to be- that is a cluster, i now assume? |
| 01:31:53 | LinusN | still, you want to prerecord into a file and then cut the beginning when recording for real |
| 01:32:09 | kurzhaarrocker | yes |
| 01:32:20 | LinusN | no need to do it in realtime, is it? |
| 01:32:37 | LinusN | just remember the position ion the file and trim it afterwards |
| 01:32:48 | LinusN | programmatically |
| 01:33:04 | kurzhaarrocker | Imagine you have a trigger level and the jukebox prerecords for 2 weeks. |
| 01:33:52 | kurzhaarrocker | We might want to say: In a week there may be a bang and we want to record the 5 minutes before it. Without hd overflow. |
| 01:33:56 | LinusN | ok, so you want to continuously trim the file? |
| 01:34:19 | kurzhaarrocker | Yes, whenever we spin up the drive anyway would be a good moment. |
| 01:34:27 | | Join earHurts [0] (~zic@c-65-97-29-164.va.client2.attbi.com) |
| 01:35:20 | LinusN | kurzhaarrocker: interesting idea |
| 01:35:24 | kurzhaarrocker | Which is the same time recorded data is transferred from buffer to hd. |
| 01:35:32 | Laurent_ | well, the cache on the hitachi travelstar seems to be a write buffer only |
| 01:35:56 | Laurent_ | http://www.hgst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/85CC1FF9F3F11FE187256C4F0052E6B6/$file/80GNSpec2.0.pdf |
| 01:36:22 | kurzhaarrocker | LinusN: is that the same kind of 'interesting' as in "This tastes - erm - interesting."? |
| 01:36:38 | LinusN | Laurent_: error 500 - unable to process request |
| 01:36:43 | Laurent_ | so no hope of using it as an MP3 buffer |
| 01:36:43 | BC|code | lol |
| 01:37:05 | Laurent_ | LinusN: bad URL ? |
| 01:37:10 | LinusN | kurzhaarrocker: no, more like "hmmm, i'm glad i didn't have to cook this myself" :-) |
| 01:37:59 | kurzhaarrocker | LinusN: so if you were Zagor you'd have said "Show me the code".. |
| 01:38:03 | Laurent_ | http://www.hgst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/85CC1FF9F3F11FE187256C4F0052E6B6 |
| 01:38:13 | LinusN | kurzhaarrocker: something like that :-) |
| 01:38:17 | Laurent_ | then go to the link at the bottom |
| 01:39:52 | earHurts | Hey Linus |
| 01:40:42 | LinusN | earHurts: yes? |
| 01:40:43 | | Join baz [0] (~baz@modem-418.llama.dialup.pol.co.uk) |
| 01:40:55 | earHurts | just saying hi |
| 01:41:28 | LinusN | oh, hi |
| 01:41:52 | earHurts | My archos is still tits-up, so I just bought a 512MB sd card for my zaurus |
| 01:42:33 | kurzhaarrocker | Apropos sd card: Does anybody know a provider for CF -> IDE adapters? |
| 01:43:10 | earHurts | there are some cf cards that are usb masters |
| 01:43:40 | kurzhaarrocker | ??? What will a slave do when connected to such a master? |
| 01:44:00 | kurzhaarrocker | and cf and usb? |
| 01:44:27 | earHurts | it'll allow you cf slotted device to read a usb slave |
| 01:45:10 | kurzhaarrocker | Funny. |
| 01:45:33 | earHurts | such as allowing a zaurus to read an archos drive |
| 01:46:09 | MT | you could take an archos and replace the hd with a bunch of solid state memory |
| 01:46:21 | MT | i bet that would have kicking battery life |
| 01:46:29 | kurzhaarrocker | Interesting. But not what I'm searching for. For on the road recording I'd just like to exchange the harddrive of the jukebox with something without mechanics. |
| 01:46:37 | MT | yes |
| 01:46:48 | MT | exactly what i just said would do the trick |
| 01:46:57 | MT | www.linitx.com sells them |
| 01:47:18 | | Quit earHurts (Remote closed the connection) |
| 01:47:31 | MT | and probably almost any component store tbh |
| 01:47:46 | Laurent_ | what would be nice would be an archos + some 64MB flash memory usable as a cache |
| 01:47:56 | MT | hmm |
| 01:48:09 | MT | can we use both channels on the ide interface? |
| 01:48:29 | | Join earHurts [0] (~zic@c-65-97-29-164.va.client2.attbi.com) |
| 01:48:38 | kurzhaarrocker | MT: That wouldn't work for me. |
| 01:48:48 | MT | why not? |
| 01:49:43 | kurzhaarrocker | As I said: I want to record directly onto a memory device without mechanics. I don't need anything when I have to record to hd first and than transfere it to another memory medium |
| 01:49:53 | MT | erm |
| 01:50:19 | MT | with no hard drive in the archos at all, there would be no mechanical elements |
| 01:51:06 | kurzhaarrocker | Yes and nothing to store data on either -> thus exchange the hd with a cf card and some memory |
| 01:51:06 | kurzhaarrocker | . |
| 01:51:14 | MT | erm |
| 01:51:20 | | Quit earHurts (Remote closed the connection) |
| 01:51:25 | MT | you would have a CF card acting as the hard drive |
| 01:51:57 | kurzhaarrocker | And that for I need an adapter CF -> IDE. CF -> USB is useless in this case. |
| 01:52:01 | | Join earHurts [0] (~zic@c-65-97-29-164.va.client2.attbi.com) |
| 01:52:14 | MT | we are talking at cross lengths, ive not mentioned usb once |
| 01:52:24 | MT | http://linitx.com/shop/default.php/cPath/11_39 |
| 01:53:07 | kurzhaarrocker | MT: sorry I was mixing up with a line by earHurts |
| 01:53:43 | MT | np |
| 01:54:11 | MT | although those are all for 3.5" drives |
| 01:54:27 | Laurent_ | kurz : wouldn't an archos + internal flash memory be the best fit -> record on flash, backup on HD when necessary ? |
| 01:55:03 | kurzhaarrocker | Laurent_ Yes. That's why I'd like a cf -> ide adapter. |
| 01:55:21 | kurzhaarrocker | MT: what a pity |
| 01:55:24 | MT | there would be no room inside the device for both the hd and a cf |
| 01:55:43 | MT | kurzhaarrocker: thats a mild problem! |
| 01:55:50 | kurzhaarrocker | MT that is'nt necessary. |
| 01:56:09 | MT | no, quite, that was directed at Laurent :) |
| 01:56:35 | MT | damn psybnc, I hate not having the old autocomplete nick feature |
| 01:56:47 | Laurent_ | kurzhaarrocker: what you need is a gmini ;) |
| 01:56:57 | Laurent_ | the gmini has a cf reader |
| 01:57:04 | MT | I suppose I should switch to a multi server client :/ |
| 01:57:15 | MT | and how much is the activation code? :) |
| 01:57:15 | kurzhaarrocker | Laurent_ but no rockbox. |
| 01:57:26 | Laurent_ | kurz : i'm working on it ;) |
| 01:57:58 | MT | Laurent: surely they will just slap you with DMCA threats? |
| 01:58:29 | Laurent_ | kurz : i got an answer from a samsung guy, he seems to be willing to help about the CPU if telechips (makers of the gmini cpu) don't want to |
| 01:58:46 | Laurent_ | MT: those threats have no legal value in France |
| 01:59:00 | MT | there are EU equivalents |
| 01:59:06 | Laurent_ | not yet |
| 01:59:08 | Laurent_ | ;) |
| 02:00 |
| 02:00:13 | Laurent_ | and anyway, the archos protection is probably similar to the xbox one, and the xbox was hacked within full respect of the DMCA, so it can probably be done too for the gmini |
| 02:00:29 | Laurent_ | at least, it's worth trying |
| 02:00:50 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 02:00:52 | MT | i see several key differences between xbox and gmini |
| 02:01:01 | MT | but sure, try away and good luck to you :) |
| 02:01:05 | Laurent_ | MT : which are ? |
| 02:01:05 | BC|code | no Doom for gmini yet |
| 02:01:51 | MT | xbox-linux cannot play xbox games, so it does not affect microsofts target market |
| 02:02:03 | | Part Asmotaku-neko |
| 02:02:17 | MT | gmini-rockbox would have the same functions that gmini would |
| 02:02:30 | MT | and takes away one of their revenue streams away |
| 02:02:55 | MT | therefore microsoft are unlikely to pursue xbox-linux |
| 02:03:14 | MT | but archos would do well to pursue you |
| 02:03:27 | Laurent_ | I don't think it's a valid claim, this could be said also of a car in which you put your own radio without buying the constructor's one |
| 02:03:49 | MT | looking at it from a strictly commercial viewpoint |
| 02:04:03 | MT | i dont think its a valid claim either |
| 02:04:08 | MT | but ianal |
| 02:04:27 | MT | lawyers spend lots of time and money argueing semi valid claims |
| 02:04:49 | Laurent_ | sure, me neither, we'll see ! Anyway, Africa looks like a nice continent to exile oneself to in case of real trouble ;) |
| 02:04:59 | MT | hehe |
| 02:05:22 | MT | china is best |
| 02:05:34 | MT | they care little for software piracy claims |
| 02:05:40 | earHurts | hard to get broadband in afrique |
| 02:05:43 | Laurent_ | yup, but I value my freedom somewhat ;) |
| 02:05:59 | MT | china isnt as bad as people think |
| 02:06:09 | MT | its fairly democratic really |
| 02:06:18 | Laurent_ | MT: ask the thibetans ;) |
| 02:06:20 | earHurts | but dies Laurant Kabila value your freedom? |
| 02:06:34 | MT | he values your $ :) |
| 02:06:50 | kurzhaarrocker | good night |
| 02:07:00 | Laurent_ | not him, but two or three african countries are now real democracies |
| 02:07:10 | Laurent_ | anyway, I'm not there yet ;) |
| 02:07:12 | | Quit kurzhaarrocker ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)") |
| 02:07:42 | Laurent_ | oops got to go too |
| 02:07:47 | Laurent_ | it's late there |
| 02:07:56 | Laurent_ | c u |
| 02:08:04 | | Quit Laurent_ ("good bye !") |
| 02:12:06 | | Quit earHurts (Remote closed the connection) |
| 02:19:54 | | Quit methangas (" Like VS.net's GUI? Then try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-") |
| 02:30:43 | | Quit mecraw__ ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)") |
| 02:41:59 | | Quit baz (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 02:42:05 | | Quit AciD (Connection timed out) |
| 02:42:54 | | Join arspy87 [0] (~arspy87@h00062598fa3b.ne.client2.attbi.com) |
| 02:43:32 | arspy87 | hey |
| 02:43:39 | BC|code | hi spy |
| 02:43:54 | arspy87 | hey blue, what are you coding now? |
| 02:45:21 | BC|code | audio stuff |
| 02:45:26 | arspy87 | cool |
| 02:47:04 | BC|code | I'll have the stereo seperation done and dusted before I go to bed tonight ...then just MDB left :) |
| 02:47:35 | BC|code | 2,000 lines of code and counting... |
| 02:47:43 | BC|code | 2KLoC |
| 02:48:22 | LinusN | BC|code: have you thought any more about the mdb settings? |
| 02:48:59 | BC|code | I've pretty much sorted out the advanced stuff in my head, and got a few ideas rattling about the basic interface |
| 02:49:05 | LinusN | BC|code: also, please try to separate the new-style settings patch from the stereo separation patch |
| 02:50:06 | BC|code | my code's pretty modular, but if you're more specific NOW is the right time for me to change anything you desire |
| 02:50:38 | BC|code | What ideas do you have MDB? |
| 02:50:47 | BC|code | (basic user mode that is) |
| 02:51:39 | | Part LinusN |
| 02:52:12 | BC|code | was it something i said? |
| 02:53:40 | | Join LinusN [200] (~linus@labb.contactor.se) |
| 02:54:11 | LinusN | damn modem |
| 02:54:27 | LinusN | no, it wasn't something you said :-) |
| 02:54:29 | BC|code | do you not have cable near you, or is it a money issue? |
| 02:54:50 | LinusN | i'm on vacation at my inlaws |
| 02:55:05 | LinusN | my broadband is at home |
| 02:55:10 | BC|code | lol - I was just joking LinusN, I've never known you to log off without saying goodnight, I had presumed it was modem trouble |
| 02:55:18 | BC|code | ahhhhhh |
| 02:56:20 | LinusN | about the separation, i want to be able to commit the stereo separation before the revamped settings screen |
| 02:57:03 | LinusN | i can imagine that we will discuss the look&feel a lot before we agree on it, but the stereo separation is much easier to agree on |
| 02:57:06 | BC|code | okay ...understood |
| 02:57:40 | BC|code | to get all the basic controls on one screen has been my main drive |
| 02:57:53 | BC|code | you're welcome to look at what I've done so far |
| 02:58:26 | LinusN | can you send me an ajbrec.ajz for the fm? |
| 02:58:39 | BC|code | it's a .rock atm |
| 02:58:45 | LinusN | oh |
| 02:58:56 | LinusN | settings on the rocks |
| 02:59:28 | LinusN | then send me the rock for the fm |
| 02:59:30 | BC|code | tried to make sure that the code can be included easily though with #ifdefs and the likes |
| 02:59:52 | BC|code | Ah. actually, I have updated the plugin api ...so I will send both |
| 03:00 |
| 03:00:53 | BC|code | 2MB of memory? |
| 03:01:46 | LinusN | yup |
| 03:01:53 | LinusN | try dcc |
| 03:02:00 | BC|code | compiling.... |
| 03:05:44 | BC|code | hmmm, fm does not like my changes to plugin.h.... |
| 03:06:27 | BC|code | lmao - i have no idea how this has EVER compiled |
| 03:08:26 | BC|code | hmmmmm, now playlist-viewer is breaking the compile |
| 03:09:16 | BC|code | ignore me wittering ...my way of saying ...gimme 5 mins to fix the build |
| 03:10:08 | LinusN | :-) |
| 03:13:15 | BC|code | there are no docs yet, so I can tell you all the features etc |
| 03:13:33 | BC|code | for fractional dB adjustment use "ON" as shift |
| 03:14:05 | BC|code | PLAY from chans will take you to the techie screen |
| 03:14:27 | BC|code | on+left, on+right do stuff in places |
| 03:14:35 | BC|code | f3 is default value |
| 03:15:10 | BC|code | +/- is not handled correctly in chan-screen ...this is where I am working now |
| 03:16:47 | BC|code | code is in place for arrow-head highlighting |
| 03:17:05 | BC|code | think that's about it |
| 03:19:04 | BC|code | brb |
| 03:21:21 | LinusN | i think people would want a slightly larger font |
| 03:28:09 | BC|code | yeah, by moving the loudness centre frequency onto the loudness line, I can get another pixel vertically on the font :) |
| 03:28:45 | BC|code | but any bigger than that, it doesn't fit on one screen |
| 03:28:58 | LinusN | is that the main requirement? |
| 03:29:09 | LinusN | i can accept a scrolling version |
| 03:29:14 | BC|code | for me, yes |
| 03:32:02 | BC|code | any other comments? |
| 03:33:22 | LinusN | i don't like the hex values in the techy screen, i'd rather have decimal |
| 03:33:31 | LinusN | fixed point |
| 03:33:37 | LinusN | like 0.01 |
| 03:34:25 | BC|code | then it's back to rounding errors :( |
| 03:34:34 | LinusN | and i can't say that i'ts obvious for me which value is which |
| 03:35:11 | BC|code | hmmm, follow the Rwave to the Rspeaker |
| 03:35:55 | BC|code | waveform +/- value -> speaker |
| 03:36:34 | BC|code | how would you do it? |
| 03:37:39 | arspy87 | blue: i hate those darn rounding errors!! |
| 03:38:13 | BC|code | the new audio plugin is designed to make them all go away |
| 03:38:26 | | Join earHurts [0] (~zic@c-65-97-29-164.va.client2.attbi.com) |
| 03:39:01 | LinusN | since i'm not too concerned about the precision, i would have made sliders, or discrete decimal steps |
| 03:39:10 | BC|code | you did |
| 03:39:11 | BC|code | lol |
| 03:39:21 | LinusN | :-) |
| 03:39:35 | BC|code | i think we have VERY different goals here :( |
| 03:40:03 | LinusN | what is your goal with the techy screen? |
| 03:40:22 | BC|code | precision control over the DAC |
| 03:41:11 | LinusN | for what reason? |
| 03:41:39 | BC|code | I'm not sure how to answer that question |
| 03:42:38 | LinusN | my point is, not many people would be interested in entering obscure hex values into the mixer registers |
| 03:42:47 | BC|code | because I am not satisfied with the guesswork an features-missing config that exists ...although I appreciate that the current system is designed to dumb it all down for the user |
| 03:42:55 | LinusN | they would, however, be interested in mixing the channels |
| 03:43:17 | LinusN | guesswork? |
| 03:43:33 | BC|code | what volume setting gives line-out |
| 03:43:56 | BC|code | somewhere between 90...91% on the current system |
| 03:44:21 | LinusN | i agree that volume in percent isn't the best |
| 03:44:36 | BC|code | qed |
| 03:45:01 | LinusN | and is 0db really line-level? |
| 03:45:13 | BC|code | allegedly |
| 03:45:33 | BC|code | also tallies with the scope tests that were published on the list |
| 03:45:39 | LinusN | ok |
| 03:49:49 | BC|code | the biggest issue with the code is that I am unable to use the standard print routines because I have no way to generate the font required |
| 03:50:29 | LinusN | my issue is that it shouldn't require a special font :-) |
| 03:50:54 | BC|code | but you dont mind it scrolling! |
| 03:51:25 | LinusN | exactly |
| 03:52:37 | BC|code | soooooo, you may be able to save me a big fat bunch of work.... |
| 03:52:51 | BC|code | shall I code it exclusively as a plugin? |
| 03:53:16 | LinusN | not necessary |
| 03:53:21 | BC|code | ? |
| 03:53:41 | LinusN | i mean, i was hoping to include it in the main code |
| 03:53:57 | BC|code | okay - I was worried that the special font would stop that |
| 03:54:05 | LinusN | i was coming to that :-) |
| 03:54:21 | BC|code | :) |
| 03:54:49 | earHurts | ahem, shouldn't api and presentation (eg, font) be separated? |
| 03:54:57 | LinusN | i would like it in the main code if it could use a larger font |
| 03:55:26 | BC|code | LinusN do you mean ANY font, or would 1 pixel taller be okay? |
| 03:55:48 | BC|code | 1 pixel taller is already on the cards afaic |
| 03:56:19 | BC|code | you might also note that the statusbar is OFF |
| 03:56:23 | BC|code | (so to speak) |
| 03:56:24 | LinusN | i would like any font, but i can agree on 8 pixels |
| 03:58:18 | BC|code | 8 makes it impossible to fit on a screen without a completely different interface |
| 03:58:33 | LinusN | the width? |
| 03:58:48 | BC|code | we've got quite a bit of width left to play with |
| 03:59:05 | LinusN | wellm |
| 03:59:26 | LinusN | my goal is not to fit it in a single screen |
| 03:59:37 | LinusN | without scrolling |
| 04:00 |
| 04:00:01 | arspy87 | well it's been great watching all of this, but i g2g now |
| 04:00:09 | BC|code | l8rz |
| 04:00:30 | LinusN | cu |
| 04:00:52 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 04:00:54 | arspy87 | ttyl |
| 04:00:57 | BC|code | not fit on screen without scrolling == fit on screen with scrolling !? |
| 04:00:58 | | Part arspy87 |
| 04:01:05 | * | BC|code misunderstand |
| 04:01:34 | BC|code | s |
| 04:02:00 | LinusN | i want to be able to use a larger font, and that would probably mean scrolling |
| 04:02:08 | BC|code | sorry, earHurts, not ignoring you, do you understand the problem yet? |
| 04:02:17 | BC|code | yes, agreed |
| 04:03:05 | BC|code | but I find the scrolling for sound config vey annoying ...too many years sat in front of a mixing desk |
| 04:03:36 | LinusN | agreed, but what will you do when you add mdb tweaking? |
| 04:03:51 | BC|code | i want to discuss that with you :) |
| 04:04:04 | LinusN | where would you fit it? |
| 04:04:10 | BC|code | first off ...press play and see a graph of what you are doing |
| 04:04:25 | BC|code | tweak everything at register level |
| 04:04:39 | BC|code | for the basic (main) screen... |
| 04:04:51 | LinusN | i don't think anyone wants to tweak at register level except you and me |
| 04:05:13 | LinusN | and i would only do it for debugging |
| 04:05:33 | BC|code | there are a few audiophiles on the group who would play ...but not many, hence it is hidden ...like the seperation screen |
| 04:06:05 | BC|code | but what set of "limited" options would be useful to the user? |
| 04:06:07 | LinusN | still, the audiophiles wouldn't want hex values and registers, they want physical units |
| 04:06:56 | BC|code | The MDB registers can be expressed nicely in terms of "f" and "db" ...like the bass/treble settings |
| 04:07:14 | BC|code | I consider my bass/treble settings to be register level editing |
| 04:09:32 | LinusN | the current bass/treble is also register level :-) |
| 04:09:39 | BC|code | no |
| 04:09:49 | BC|code | cannot set bass = 1.5dB |
| 04:10:08 | LinusN | ah, you mean the resolution |
| 04:10:19 | LinusN | but there are no rounding errors |
| 04:10:20 | BC|code | yes - all possible values covered |
| 04:11:23 | BC|code | current system limits you to 1/8th of available options |
| 04:12:35 | BC|code | btw ...there is no usb code in my plugin ...careful! |
| 04:13:59 | | Quit edx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 04:14:05 | LinusN | no danger |
| 04:14:19 | BC|code | ok, wasn't 100% sure |
| 04:15:02 | LinusN | it won't enter usb mode until all threads have agreed |
| 04:15:14 | BC|code | :) well done |
| 04:15:19 | LinusN | thx |
| 04:15:38 | LinusN | i did a lot of work on that one |
| 04:16:00 | LinusN | it makes the original firmware look really bad :-) |
| 04:16:07 | LinusN | which was the goal |
| 04:16:09 | BC|code | i've NEVER seen it screw up |
| 04:16:14 | BC|code | LOL |
| 04:16:44 | BC|code | I never really played with the original firmware - Rockbox was one of the biggest selling points to me |
| 04:17:03 | BC|code | same with most of my kit |
| 04:22:42 | BC|code | right... off to deal with the 2's compliment crap in the seperation screen ...Thought: f2: toggle decmial/hex mode |
| 04:23:04 | LinusN | sure, do you handle overflows? |
| 04:23:36 | LinusN | i mean, 0.5 + 0.6 = 1.1 |
| 04:23:59 | BC|code | hmmm, no interesing thought |
| 04:24:20 | | Join AciD [0] (~acid@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 04:24:24 | BC|code | cuould change the speaker icon if it happens |
| 04:24:33 | BC|code | ? |
| 04:25:30 | LinusN | maybe |
| 04:25:43 | LinusN | same goes for volume/bass/treble/loudness |
| 04:26:29 | BC|code | yes, I considered this, but my current thinking is that reality is so far away from the maths that to display this info would be unhelpful |
| 04:27:20 | BC|code | sound is tweaked by-ear, and if it sounds better with +17dB of Bass then so be it! ?? |
| 04:27:53 | LinusN | not my point |
| 04:28:10 | BC|code | enlighten me.. :) |
| 04:28:27 | LinusN | with 0db volume and +1db bass, there is a risk of digital distortion |
| 04:28:40 | | Quit earHurts (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 04:28:43 | LinusN | lots of talk about this in the forums |
| 04:29:17 | | Join earHurts [0] (~zic@c-65-97-29-164.va.client2.attbi.com) |
| 04:29:38 | BC|code | perhaps it would make more sense, if you spoke of what might fix it? |
| 04:30:34 | LinusN | some kind of a) automatic adjustment (yuck) or b) warning |
| 04:31:16 | LinusN | the player has auto adjustment, and i'm not sure i like it |
| 04:31:28 | BC|code | it's good sometimes |
| 04:31:43 | BC|code | 20mS setting (**now available***) is good on speech |
| 04:32:13 | LinusN | i didn't mean that |
| 04:32:31 | BC|code | ahh, some feature I have missed ! damn my eyes! |
| 04:32:53 | BC|code | I also dislike "auto adjust" |
| 04:33:41 | LinusN | i mean, on the player, the volume is lowered when you increase the bass above the limit |
| 04:34:03 | BC|code | yeuk! |
| 04:34:38 | BC|code | So if you are listening to music at +6dB (quite normal ~= 94%) and you need more Bass, does this mean that you run with a permanent *warning* on the screen? |
| 04:36:13 | LinusN | i dunno, maybe just a splash when you adjust the volume |
| 04:37:58 | BC|code | Can we step back and think and add it later maybe? For this conversation, I think that the important issue is NOT to auto adjust |
| 04:38:06 | BC|code | ...or not? |
| 04:38:27 | LinusN | i think we'll have to make it configurable some day |
| 04:38:34 | LinusN | but let's leave it for no |
| 04:38:35 | LinusN | w |
| 04:38:55 | LinusN | i'll have to get some sleep |
| 04:38:59 | BC|code | ok... where do you think the auto-adjust would be helpful? |
| 04:39:18 | BC|code | headphones, desktop, hifi |
| 04:39:45 | LinusN | for the cl00bies that crank the settings to the top and hears the distortion without knowing what they've done |
| 04:40:14 | LinusN | lots of complaints about the "rockbox sound quality" in the forums |
| 04:40:33 | BC|code | riiiight |
| 04:41:08 | LinusN | the archos firmware doesn't allow high volume settings |
| 04:41:20 | BC|code | WOW! |
| 04:41:32 | LinusN | that's how they have "solved" it |
| 04:41:44 | BC|code | 0db is maximum? or did they turn on this auto-adjust feature of which you speak |
| 04:42:06 | LinusN | the auto-adjust is not a mas feature, it is a rockbox feature |
| 04:42:23 | LinusN | on the player |
| 04:42:37 | BC|code | aha - that will by why I did not spot it in the mas datasheet |
| 04:42:42 | BC|code | why is it not on the recorder? |
| 04:43:01 | LinusN | because the 3587f is very different |
| 04:43:07 | BC|code | ok |
| 04:43:17 | BC|code | could the idea be ported? |
| 04:43:23 | LinusN | of course |
| 04:43:31 | LinusN | the thing is this: |
| 04:43:58 | LinusN | bass+treble+loudness+volume <= 0db |
| 04:44:12 | LinusN | that's the requirement |
| 04:44:19 | BC|code | +mdb |
| 04:44:25 | LinusN | nope |
| 04:44:29 | BC|code | ok |
| 04:44:43 | BC|code | consideration to the loudness centre? |
| 04:44:55 | LinusN | so, when you raise the volume, which of bass/treble/loudness will you lower? |
| 04:45:01 | | Quit hardeep ("[BX] Silly faggot! mIRC is for kids!") |
| 04:45:44 | LinusN | and when you lower the volume again, should you readjust the setting you just lowered? |
| 04:45:53 | LinusN | questions, questions... |
| 04:45:53 | BC|code | ouch |
| 04:45:57 | BC|code | yes |
| 04:46:21 | LinusN | another approach could be to limit the volume |
| 04:46:47 | LinusN | crank the bass and you can't raise the volume |
| 04:47:00 | BC|code | hmm |
| 04:47:07 | LinusN | much easuer :-) |
| 04:47:18 | BC|code | lol |
| 04:47:31 | LinusN | and maybe more intuitive for the user |
| 04:47:49 | LinusN | s/intuitive/explainable/ :-) |
| 04:48:42 | LinusN | ....must...get...sleep......... |
| 04:48:48 | BC|code | How about limit volume in wps - in limit disabled *warning" |
| 04:48:58 | BC|code | gimme 1 min to close... |
| 04:49:24 | LinusN | that would be acceptable |
| 04:49:36 | BC|code | in audio settings srceen allow any volume and display error warnings next to bass & treble |
| 04:50:01 | LinusN | sure |
| 04:50:11 | BC|code | that's my thing said :) |
| 04:50:35 | LinusN | the loudness center frequency doesn't affect it, neither does the mdb |
| 04:50:45 | BC|code | good! |
| 04:50:52 | BC|code | <phew!> |
| 04:50:58 | BC|code | horrible maths |
| 04:51:00 | LinusN | :-) |
| 04:51:18 | BC|code | anyway dude, great chatting - go get some ZZ's |
| 04:51:37 | LinusN | nice talking to you, cu another day |
| 04:51:44 | LinusN | nite |
| 04:51:48 | BC|code | nite m8 |
| 04:51:51 | | Part LinusN |
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| 05:18:37 | | Quit AciD` (Connection timed out) |
| 05:55:12 | BC|code | nite all |
| 05:55:21 | | Part BC|code |
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| 07:57:16 | | Join midknight2k3 [0] (midknight2@12-229-204-15.client.attbi.com) |
| 07:57:20 | midknight2k3 | hi all |
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| 11:02:16 | midknight2k3 | nite all |
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| 12:20:17 | Dogger | morning peeps |
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| 14:10:41 | edx | hmmm is it possible that the mailing list doesn't work atm? |
| 14:31:28 | | Quit christian ("Leaving") |
| 14:34:14 | | Join Laurent_ [0] (~laurent@dyn-213-36-171-153.ppp.tiscali.fr) |
| 14:34:26 | Laurent_ | hi |
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| 16:13:11 | | Quit electronic ("Leaving") |
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| 17:16:11 | FRiZ | Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeello évlibôôôôôdiiiiiiiii |
| 17:16:32 | FRiZ | hùm |
| 17:16:40 | | Quit FRiZ (Client Quit) |
| 17:17:01 | | Nick mecraw__ is now known as mecraw (~mecraw@69.2.235.2) |
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| 17:21:14 | | Join BoBB [0] (~bob@ip68-106-225-254.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 17:31:23 | Laurent_ | oops |
| 17:31:35 | Laurent_ | too late |
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| 17:57:41 | | Join diddystar5 [0] (Lee@ACC48DA8.ipt.aol.com) |
| 17:58:19 | Laurent_ | hi diddystar5 |
| 17:58:30 | diddystar5 | hi Laurent_ |
| 17:58:52 | Laurent_ | nobody's speaking, god damned hollydays ;) |
| 17:59:06 | diddystar5 | lol |
| 18:00 |
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| 18:02:10 | Laurent_ | I think I'm gonna post my mails within one hour if I don't get any answer ;) |
| 18:06:36 | | Join diddystar5_ [0] (Lee@ACC39ED9.ipt.aol.com) |
| 18:06:41 | diddystar5_ | arghh |
| 18:06:44 | diddystar5_ | stuiped aol |
| 18:07:42 | diddystar5_ | diddystar5: quit please! |
| 18:09:06 | Laurent_ | huh ? |
| 18:10:05 | diddystar5_ | diddystar5 is dead, it will leave in a bit |
| 18:10:13 | diddystar5_ | aol crashed..... |
| 18:12:28 | | Quit adi|home (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 18:15:08 | | Quit diddystar5 (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 18:20:16 | | Nick diddystar5_ is now known as diddystar5 (Lee@ACC39ED9.ipt.aol.com) |
| 18:22:26 | diddystar5 | bye |
| 18:22:29 | | Quit diddystar5 ("Leaving") |
| 18:38:06 | | Quit scott666 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 18:46:11 | Dogger | any developers here? |
| 18:46:28 | Laurent_ | I don't think there are many |
| 18:46:39 | Laurent_ | and you should not count me as one ;) |
| 18:46:55 | Laurent_ | are you *the* dogger ? |
| 18:47:05 | Laurent_ | from Avos ? |
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| 19:33:50 | | Join electronic [0] (jirc@ACBBD266.ipt.aol.com) |
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| 19:50:42 | | Join kurzhaarrocker [0] (~Philipp@Be583.b.pppool.de) |
| 19:51:39 | kurzhaarrocker | c0utta: any progress with user assignable screens? |
| 19:51:53 | Laurent_ | hi kurz |
| 19:51:59 | kurzhaarrocker | hi Laurent_ |
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| 20:32:52 | | Join midknight2k3 [0] (midknight2@12-229-204-15.client.attbi.com) |
| 20:33:03 | midknight2k3 | hi all |
| 20:33:06 | Laurent_ | hey |
| 20:33:29 | electronic | hi |
| 20:34:38 | | Join trakk [0] (jirc@ACBBD266.ipt.aol.com) |
| 20:34:57 | trakk | Nice clock mid |
| 20:36:00 | trakk | quiet in here |
| 20:36:05 | trakk | hello midknit2k3 |
| 20:38:15 | midknight2k3 | i'm here |
| 20:38:39 | electronic | hi |
| 20:38:48 | trakk | hiya midknight3k4 |
| 20:38:49 | trakk | 2k3 |
| 20:39:33 | electronic | how about a basic drawing too? |
| 20:39:34 | electronic | tool? |
| 20:39:41 | electronic | like an Etch A Sketch machine? |
| 20:40:23 | electronic | mid? |
| 20:41:00 | midknight2k3 | lol |
| 20:41:08 | midknight2k3 | that'd be neat |
| 20:41:39 | electronic | u'd use the arrow keypad to move the cursor, and u hold Fx, ON or PLAY to draw |
| 20:41:41 | electronic | like in Paint |
| 20:42:02 | midknight2k3 | hold fx, on and play to draw what? |
| 20:42:05 | midknight2k3 | ok |
| 20:42:07 | midknight2k3 | oh* |
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| 20:43:37 | electronic | lol |
| 20:43:40 | | Quit electronic ("Leaving") |
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| 21:00 |
| 21:10:32 | | Join BC|code [0] (~bluechip@cpc3-colc1-3-0-cust61.colc.cable.ntl.com) |
| 21:10:42 | | Nick BC|code is now known as BlueChip (~bluechip@cpc3-colc1-3-0-cust61.colc.cable.ntl.com) |
| 21:11:27 | midknight2k3 | hey BlueChip |
| 21:11:44 | BlueChip | hey hey M K |
| 21:12:39 | BlueChip | Laurent_: I have a routine to decompress raw zip data if you need it |
| 21:13:00 | | Quit baz ("Leaving") |
| 21:15:40 | midknight2k3 | lol |
| 21:15:41 | midknight2k3 | ... |
| 21:16:06 | BlueChip | Laurent_|afk maybe? |
| 21:16:13 | midknight2k3 | no idea |
| 21:16:38 | BlueChip | hey dude dcc me your clock code - i wanna look - but feelin' lazy |
| 21:16:38 | Laurent_ | i'm there |
| 21:16:40 | Laurent_ | sorry |
| 21:16:47 | BlueChip | s'okay dude, no sweat |
| 21:16:51 | Laurent_ | BlueChip: it'd welcome ;) |
| 21:16:58 | Laurent_ | insert "be" |
| 21:17:01 | BlueChip | lol |
| 21:17:18 | BlueChip | the brain has a nice way of grammar checking for me :) |
| 21:17:44 | BlueChip | by the time I come to the point of working it out, my unconciuss has already sorted out most typos etc |
| 21:18:53 | BlueChip | ...although it has an annoying tendancy to strip out "not"s from time to time |
| 21:19:36 | BlueChip | Laurent_: what os? |
| 21:19:45 | BlueChip | *which |
| 21:20:21 | BlueChip | if you say DJ for DOS/Win I will send you all the project files etc |
| 21:20:50 | Laurent_ | linux |
| 21:21:16 | midknight2k3 | sorry! was afg |
| 21:21:18 | midknight2k3 | afk* |
| 21:21:34 | midknight2k3 | BlueChip, it's at the main page. http://rockbox.haxx.se/plugins/clock.c |
| 21:21:37 | midknight2k3 | er |
| 21:21:44 | midknight2k3 | BlueChip, it's at the main page. http://rockbox.haxx.se/apps/plugins/clock.c |
| 21:21:50 | midknight2k3 | there you go |
| 21:21:54 | BlueChip | cool |
| 21:22:06 | BlueChip | didn't know about that |
| 21:22:21 | midknight2k3 | yay |
| 21:23:56 | BlueChip | actually, Laurent_: just thought ...try here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mipsx_src/files/Utilities/Compression/OpUnz/ |
| 21:27:56 | Laurent_ | bc: i can't access yahoo groups, can't sign in, it wont send me a confirmation email |
| 21:28:47 | | Quit scott666 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 21:29:11 | BlueChip | weird |
| 21:30:31 | Laurent_ | true |
| 21:30:56 | Laurent_ | let me check again |
| 21:31:01 | BlueChip | should compile under linux okay ...if it does, I'd love a copy of the elf to stick on the site |
| 21:31:22 | | Quit top_bloke ("The mind is a terrible thing to taste. Wasted 0 seconds online.") |
| 21:31:23 | BlueChip | really must get a cross-compiler one day |
| 21:31:40 | Laurent_ | still nothing... |
| 21:32:11 | BlueChip | never had trouble myself |
| 21:32:22 | BlueChip | anyway, you got the source now :) |
| 21:33:02 | BlueChip | if you want to look at the source more closely, I think I have a copy that I cleaned up to understand it |
| 21:34:33 | Laurent_ | BlueChip: that'd be nice ;) |
| 21:34:44 | | Join scott666 [0] (scott666@c-24-245-58-245.mn.client2.attbi.com) |
| 21:34:52 | Laurent_ | but it does'nt seem to be zip compression specifically |
| 21:35:55 | Laurent_ | (i'm speaking of the archos firmware) |
| 21:36:16 | BlueChip | it was just one to try |
| 21:37:33 | Laurent_ | got it thanks |
| 21:38:12 | BlueChip | you might also want to chat with mediatek DVD hackers, one guy there played with a whole bunch of differet algorithms for compression and checksumming |
| 21:38:23 | BlueChip | ...that might be a useful library to have access to |
| 21:38:59 | Laurent_ | good idea |
| 21:39:20 | BlueChip | mention my name |
| 21:41:30 | Laurent_ | a little question though : where to find them ? ;) |
| 21:41:40 | BlueChip | lol - yahoo groups |
| 21:41:48 | BlueChip | "mt1389" or something |
| 21:42:00 | Laurent_ | shit, I need to get account |
| 21:42:04 | Laurent_ | an account |
| 21:42:09 | Laurent_ | ok, thanks |
| 21:43:09 | Laurent_ | http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mt13x9/ |
| 21:43:14 | BlueChip | that's it |
| 21:43:40 | BlueChip | you could also try OneFirmwareForAll |
| 21:44:02 | BlueChip | that's the ESS hackers, there is a logical cross over of membership between these two groups |
| 21:44:42 | Laurent_ | got it too |
| 21:47:05 | BlueChip | just looked at the MT site ...seems they never got the members to go anywhere with it :( ...shame there were a couple of real smart guys there in the early days :( |
| 21:47:23 | midknight2k3 | lol |
| 21:47:27 | midknight2k3 | OnefirmwareForAll |
| 21:47:42 | BlueChip | "lol ..OFFA"?? |
| 21:48:27 | midknight2k3 | ? |
| 21:48:38 | midknight2k3 | its fnny |
| 21:48:39 | midknight2k3 | funny* |
| 21:48:49 | BlueChip | okay - it's also really cool firmware |
| 21:49:29 | midknight2k3 | for...? |
| 21:50:24 | BlueChip | DVD players |
| 21:51:00 | midknight2k3 | and for all dvd players? |
| 21:51:16 | BlueChip | no |
| 21:51:32 | midknight2k3 | i dont get it lol.. what models does it run on? |
| 21:51:53 | BlueChip | all ESS based players that do not have an 8052 |
| 21:52:02 | BlueChip | all ESS 4xxx based ..... |
| 21:52:36 | BlueChip | ...which was about 80% of the market for a couple of years |
| 21:53:11 | Laurent_ | what does it add ? |
| 21:53:28 | BlueChip | LOL |
| 21:53:35 | BlueChip | three years of major hacking |
| 21:53:40 | BlueChip | what do you want? |
| 21:53:46 | midknight2k3 | er |
| 21:53:55 | midknight2k3 | so it does basically nothing special? |
| 21:54:16 | Laurent_ | lets you skip the stupid fbi warning ? |
| 21:54:25 | BlueChip | yep |
| 21:54:28 | BlueChip | UOP disable |
| 21:54:36 | BlueChip | ...that was one of mine :) |
| 21:54:56 | midknight2k3 | ooh... you can skip the screen that typically displays for about 5 seconds? |
| 21:55:01 | BlueChip | ...for the ESS players WITH the 8052 |
| 21:55:01 | Laurent_ | "you bought or rent this fucking movie but we presume you a criminal and try to make you feel guilty in advance" |
| 21:55:02 | midknight2k3 | 5 seconds gained |
| 21:55:21 | BlueChip | disney make you watch 10 mins of adverts!!! |
| 21:55:36 | Laurent_ | liquid brain ;) |
| 21:55:44 | BlueChip | how about ...bunch of mpegs on a dvdr |
| 21:55:48 | Laurent_ | it flows by the ears the time you get to the movie :) |
| 21:55:50 | midknight2k3 | lol |
| 21:55:53 | midknight2k3 | "apex Reloaded" |
| 21:56:25 | BlueChip | the other good stuff is the multi-standards patches |
| 21:56:26 | BlueChip | imho |
| 21:56:51 | midknight2k3 | ooh this one looks cool |
| 21:56:51 | midknight2k3 | http://www.geocities.com/d_booty1/photogallery/photo15884/apex_blueswirl.jpg |
| 21:56:52 | Laurent_ | this is sickening, commercial products are not even at 10% of what a free software would do |
| 21:57:18 | Laurent_ | and they speak of technical progress thanks to concurrence... |
| 21:57:21 | BlueChip | my £30 dvd player does more than any other dvd commercailly available |
| 21:58:04 | midknight2k3 | wha |
| 21:58:07 | midknight2k3 | like? |
| 21:58:24 | Laurent_ | it fits within a tower box ;) |
| 21:58:33 | midknight2k3 | lol |
| 21:58:34 | Laurent_ | it makes monster noise |
| 21:58:37 | Laurent_ | ;) |
| 21:58:44 | Laurent_ | joking of course |
| 21:58:50 | midknight2k3 | lol |
| 21:58:58 | midknight2k3 | BlueChip, what's so good about it then |
| 21:59:11 | BlueChip | other than the things I have already mentioned? |
| 21:59:20 | midknight2k3 | fbi warning disabler? |
| 21:59:22 | midknight2k3 | err |
| 21:59:46 | BlueChip | or maybe other than the list of things at OFFA? |
| 22:00 |
| 22:00:39 | Laurent_ | http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OneFirmwareForAll/ |
| 22:01:25 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 22:02:14 | midknight2k3 | i dont see much info |
| 22:02:22 | midknight2k3 | i guess i need to sign up |
| 22:02:30 | BlueChip | do you own a relevant player? |
| 22:02:35 | midknight2k3 | no |
| 22:02:38 | BlueChip | dont bother |
| 22:02:43 | midknight2k3 | i just wanna see what it can do |
| 22:02:57 | BlueChip | why not write some rockbox code? |
| 22:03:07 | midknight2k3 | erm |
| 22:03:25 | BlueChip | you get respect for good code :) |
| 22:03:52 | midknight2k3 | i want to see what OFFA does that's so great |
| 22:04:02 | BlueChip | loads of stuff you cant have!? |
| 22:04:33 | midknight2k3 | yes |
| 22:04:36 | BlueChip | "don't read beauty magazines, they will only make you feel ugly" Baz Lurman |
| 22:04:36 | midknight2k3 | i bet its nothing good |
| 22:04:37 | midknight2k3 | thats why |
| 22:04:44 | midknight2k3 | lol |
| 22:05:12 | BlueChip | nah, it's all crap dude, and if you want to feel depressed you cn just think about being dumped or turned down or something ....less typing |
| 22:05:32 | midknight2k3 | http://www.area450.com/firmware/offafeatures.htm |
| 22:05:38 | midknight2k3 | there |
| 22:06:07 | BlueChip | so long as it was updated since xmas it may be accurate |
| 22:06:33 | midknight2k3 | whats new at xmas version? |
| 22:06:47 | midknight2k3 | it has a hard drive? what? |
| 22:07:09 | Laurent_ | sounds very nice ! |
| 22:07:31 | midknight2k3 | attachable |
| 22:07:40 | Laurent_ | I can't believe commercial vendors can't do that by themselves |
| 22:07:47 | midknight2k3 | yeah neat |
| 22:08:16 | BlueChip | they can ...and they will ...next year ...when it's time for you to give them more money |
| 22:08:37 | BlueChip | DVD players have been doing for years what Archos have just started doing |
| 22:09:09 | Dogger | doing what? |
| 22:09:19 | BlueChip | but instead of a serial unmber ...it's put the old one in a land-fill ...buy an identical one (possibly in a different case) |
| 22:09:43 | BlueChip | Dogger: charging to add features that the machine is already capable of |
| 22:11:12 | Dogger | dvd players dont do that |
| 22:11:17 | BlueChip | if you say |
| 22:11:22 | Dogger | never heard of one |
| 22:11:42 | Dogger | cant understand anyone who would pay |
| 22:11:47 | Dogger | its like a protection racket |
| 22:11:47 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK BlueChip |
| 22:11:47 | BlueChip | but instead of a serial unmber ...it's put the old one in a land-fill ...buy an identical one (possibly in a different case) |
| 22:11:49 | Dogger | its a scam |
| 22:12:24 | BlueChip | your dvd player could do 50 times what it does with full-featured firmware |
| 22:12:29 | Dogger | yeah |
| 22:12:31 | Dogger | true |
| 22:12:36 | Dogger | and my cable modem |
| 22:12:45 | Dogger | and if I got round to it I'd write firmware for them |
| 22:13:08 | Dogger | firmware always lags way behind hardware |
| 22:13:15 | Dogger | most programmers are stupid |
| 22:13:25 | BlueChip | ...so to add a hdd to your dvd player ...(a) flash firmware; add hard-drive ...or (b) buy new player the same as the old one with a hdd and updated firmware |
| 22:13:43 | BlueChip | it is NOT by accident ...it is by design |
| 22:13:43 | Dogger | I wouldn't add a hdd to it |
| 22:13:50 | Dogger | I'd get a small computer instead |
| 22:13:53 | BlueChip | it was an example! |
| 22:14:02 | Dogger | sure I understand |
| 22:14:18 | Dogger | maybe why archos dont want open source |
| 22:14:24 | Dogger | maybe av500 = av300 + new firmware |
| 22:14:33 | BlueChip | probably |
| 22:14:51 | Laurent_ | damn why do i always make silly mistakes, such as %d to write an hex number??? |
| 22:15:07 | BlueChip | hee hee |
| 22:34:34 | midknight2k3 | well |
| 22:34:40 | midknight2k3 | any ideas for coding projects next? |
| 22:36:15 | Laurent_ | yup gmini ;) |
| 22:36:20 | Laurent_ | rockbox gmini |
| 22:36:35 | midknight2k3 | lol no |
| 22:39:41 | BlueChip | visuals |
| 22:39:47 | | Quit oxygen77 ("ChatZilla 0.8.31 [Mozilla rv:1.4/7]") |
| 22:39:59 | midknight2k3 | as in, visuals to the music? |
| 22:40:10 | Laurent_ | ok I think I get it |
| 22:40:16 | midknight2k3 | i could make a fullscreen peak meter plugin lol |
| 22:40:20 | midknight2k3 | they're all about taken |
| 22:41:20 | Laurent_ | my god, archos are dumb |
| 22:42:25 | midknight2k3 | ? |
| 22:42:40 | Laurent_ | the file is xored (thanks to "he knows himself") and compressed, but it's compressed 16 bytes by 16 bytes intertwinned with zeros, which reveal the xor key |
| 22:43:04 | Laurent_ | either they are dumb, either they did this to help someone trying to unscramble it |
| 22:43:09 | midknight2k3 | lol |
| 22:43:28 | Dogger | they are dumb |
| 22:43:37 | Laurent_ | you can see the same sequence of letters appearing throughout the file |
| 22:43:39 | BlueChip | LOL |
| 22:43:44 | Laurent_ | Dogger: probably ;) |
| 22:43:51 | BlueChip | GTA3/VC uses xor 22 |
| 22:44:10 | Dogger | god knows where we'll be when people start using real encryption |
| 22:44:19 | BlueChip | but to get around it, you need to "circumvent their encryption system" |
| 22:44:27 | Laurent_ | sure, if they had used RSA we'd be helpless |
| 22:44:27 | midknight2k3 | Dogger, riots are encrypted |
| 22:44:30 | Dogger | xor 22 != encryption IMHO |
| 22:44:33 | BlueChip | SHhhhhhhhhhhh |
| 22:44:44 | Laurent_ | LOL |
| 22:44:58 | Dogger | is base64 encoding encryption? |
| 22:45:01 | BlueChip | would mean employing someone who could code it |
| 22:45:29 | Laurent_ | sure |
| 22:45:54 | BlueChip | and as soon as they do ....along comes a hacker who understands it more! |
| 22:46:15 | Dogger | hackers always win |
| 22:46:23 | Dogger | hackers are infinitely better than programmers |
| 22:46:32 | BlueChip | they'll pass laws to stop that soon |
| 22:47:09 | Dogger | they won't get away with it |
| 22:47:15 | BlueChip | heheheheh |
| 22:47:20 | Dogger | the DMCA is a perverse law |
| 22:47:34 | Dogger | it thinks the only people who make advances in technology are in universities |
| 22:47:45 | Dogger | thats bizarre |
| 22:48:41 | BlueChip | noooooooo, but if they keep the pioneering in the universities then the general public will only get the information that the government deems okay ....that way they can MAINTAIN control |
| 22:48:57 | Laurent_ | no that's logical |
| 22:49:43 | Dogger | very true |
| 22:49:46 | Laurent_ | those who make discoveries are those who are interested in searching, those who are interested only in making profits try to enslave users and are not able to be productive |
| 22:50:04 | Dogger | most universities have technology thats 20 years out of date |
| 22:50:13 | Dogger | dmca is just censorship |
| 22:50:23 | Dogger | amazing that america thinks its a free world |
| 22:50:30 | BlueChip | censorship if the fulcrum of control |
| 22:50:32 | Dogger | someone should overthrow its dictator |
| 22:50:33 | Laurent_ | that's why it always fails in the end : because there are no more advances and people revolt |
| 22:50:45 | Dogger | BlueChip: very true |
| 22:50:48 | midknight2k3 | OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT |
| 22:50:54 | Dogger | good idea |
| 22:50:59 | BlueChip | Civil War predicted for the US in 2005 |
| 22:51:08 | Laurent_ | no, overthrow the one who seek power and money |
| 22:51:09 | Dogger | as more people do more online, the government will become irrelevant anyway |
| 22:51:19 | Dogger | people will merge into their computers |
| 22:51:23 | Dogger | and only exist online |
| 22:51:24 | midknight2k3 | http://www.weebl.jolt.co.uk/riot.htm |
| 22:51:25 | midknight2k3 | look |
| 22:51:26 | midknight2k3 | http://www.weebl.jolt.co.uk/riot.htm |
| 22:51:28 | Dogger | oh no... that would be crap |
| 22:51:34 | midknight2k3 | see |
| 22:51:38 | midknight2k3 | overthrow the government |
| 22:51:50 | Laurent_ | governements do what people let them do, it's just a matter of educating people to think |
| 22:51:58 | BlueChip | the internet is run over the american military network ...which is why it grinds to a halt about 8 hours before each military maneouvre |
| 22:52:33 | BlueChip | AOL the biggest ISP on the planet filed the biggest loss of any company ever last year... |
| 22:52:39 | BlueChip | who bailed them out? |
| 22:53:50 | BlueChip | Gates has enough money to BUY the US government ...why hasn't he? |
| 22:53:56 | midknight2k3 | lmao |
| 22:55:10 | Dogger | aol is crap |
| 22:55:23 | Dogger | only some of the internet is in america you know |
| 22:56:01 | Dogger | how do you know gates hasnt |
| 22:56:09 | Dogger | he wouldnt announce he has would he |
| 22:56:12 | BlueChip | you would enjoy looking at the internet Atlas I think |
| 22:56:14 | Laurent_ | and that part is lessening every second |
| 22:56:18 | Dogger | he would just buy them, and get them to do what he wants :) |
| 22:56:35 | Laurent_ | no, you're mixing with the oil industrials ;) |
| 22:56:42 | Dogger | ah yeah |
| 22:56:57 | Dogger | america is the worst country in ther world I think all the world is agreed on that |
| 22:57:02 | Dogger | apart from america itself |
| 22:57:03 | BlueChip | oil is a dying industy |
| 22:57:09 | BlueChip | ...and they know it |
| 22:57:14 | Dogger | when oil runs out, america will be fucked |
| 22:57:16 | Laurent_ | remember, within the 10 biggest firms in the world, the majority are oil companies, they do rule |
| 22:57:22 | Dogger | they cant even walk to the shops |
| 22:57:29 | Dogger | they have to drive to malls |
| 22:57:42 | BlueChip | you can power a car with pretty much anything |
| 22:57:48 | Dogger | they should put some tax on petrol |
| 22:57:55 | Laurent_ | they are dying but they managed bush to invade Irak |
| 22:57:58 | BlueChip | the engine that runs on tap water is 180% efficient, no that isn't a typing error |
| 22:58:15 | Laurent_ | it is a typing error, no efficiency goes above 100% ;) |
| 22:58:23 | Dogger | they had to invade iraq to get the last of the oil |
| 22:58:31 | Dogger | a dying last attempt to keep living |
| 22:58:34 | BlueChip | yep |
| 22:58:55 | Laurent_ | sure but for the moment they rule |
| 22:59:05 | BlueChip | maybe we would have been better off if Hitler had made us all work to HIS rules |
| 22:59:06 | BlueChip | ? |
| 22:59:12 | Laurent_ | and economically they'll be so as long as our economy depends on oil |
| 22:59:14 | Dogger | for the moment windows rules.... not in 5 years though |
| 22:59:35 | Dogger | at least hitler was honest |
| 22:59:41 | BlueChip | LMAO |
| 22:59:41 | Laurent_ | BlueChip: we'll let you try that by yourself if you don't mind ;) |
| 22:59:42 | midknight2k3 | lol dogger |
| 22:59:45 | midknight2k3 | LOL |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:04 | Dogger | bush is prolly as bad as hitler, but just lies and spins stuff so he doesnt look so bad |
| 23:00:59 | Laurent_ | I don't think so, bush is not hitler, this is not the same degree, bush still needs manipulation to do what he wants and he probably is of good will |
| 23:01:03 | BlueChip | but the cameradery of the US populous is incredible compared to many other places I've been and certainly a million fold on uk |
| 23:01:08 | Laurent_ | Hitler did what he wanted and was plain mad |
| 23:01:27 | Laurent_ | although bush does much harm for sure |
| 23:01:39 | Laurent_ | but aren't we a bit off topic there ? |
| 23:01:40 | Laurent_ | ;) |
| 23:01:46 | Dogger | not at all |
| 23:01:54 | Dogger | this is 'evil dictators' channel isnt it? |
| 23:02:02 | Dogger | bush, blair, etc |
| 23:02:03 | BlueChip | We are not allowed to like politicians, they stop *us* from being in control - lol |
| 23:02:15 | Laurent_ | no, it's rockbox ;) |
| 23:02:15 | Dogger | self government |
| 23:02:27 | BlueChip | I've studying for my BoFH atm. |
| 23:02:29 | Dogger | we should all vote on everything by email |
| 23:02:42 | Laurent_ | self sex, self food |
| 23:02:46 | Laurent_ | no thanks ;) |
| 23:02:50 | BlueChip | todays topic: was Hitler "mad"? |
| 23:03:00 | midknight2k3 | just angry |
| 23:03:11 | BlueChip | Laurent_ groosssss dude |
| 23:03:24 | Dogger | no, he was just terribly misunderstood |
| 23:03:26 | | Join ove [0] (~ove@d213-103-220-198.cust.tele2.fr) |
| 23:03:43 | BlueChip | no, vote by email!! (joking) |
| 23:03:57 | Laurent_ | he was mad and angry because he was misunderstood, that's the story of all psychopaths but he was a psychopath |
| 23:04:29 | Laurent_ | oh shit, got to go to bed |
| 23:04:47 | Laurent_ | or I'll be dead stone tomorrow |
| 23:04:55 | BlueChip | lol |
| 23:05:07 | Dogger | ok question of the day |
| 23:05:07 | BlueChip | "stone dead" "dead stoned" is something else |
| 23:05:08 | Laurent_ | stone dead |
| 23:05:13 | Laurent_ | ;) |
| 23:05:17 | Dogger | was hitler a genius.... can you have bad geniuses? |
| 23:05:32 | BlueChip | only if they disagree with YOUR morals ;) |
| 23:05:34 | Dogger | is the plural of geniususes genii? |
| 23:05:41 | Laurent_ | hitler was a genius in some very specific fields such as as a speaker |
| 23:05:51 | Laurent_ | but for the rest he was just plain mad |
| 23:07:03 | Laurent_ | so ladies and gentlemen, i'll let you rebuild the world while I sleep |
| 23:07:07 | Laurent_ | see you |
| 23:07:26 | midknight2k3 | nite |
| 23:07:27 | Dogger | anything you want where your house is? |
| 23:07:33 | Dogger | a pyramid? |
| 23:07:36 | Dogger | later |
| 23:07:55 | BlueChip | ahhh, cone theory here we come... |
| 23:08:11 | | Quit Laurent_ ("here we go") |
| 23:08:52 | | Join uski [0] (~moo@gandalf.digital-network.org) |
| 23:10:11 | | Nick BlueChip is now known as BC|Code (~bluechip@cpc3-colc1-3-0-cust61.colc.cable.ntl.com) |
| 23:10:11 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK BC|Code |
| 23:12:37 | | Join trakk [0] (jirc@ACB99357.ipt.aol.com) |
| 23:16:36 | trakk | now we know the LCD can show greyscale using the video plugin, would it be possible to make .rvf files on-the-fly by plugging a Hauppage WinTV USB TV Tuner into the Archos, i..e use the Archos as a video recorder? |
| 23:16:45 | midknight2k3 | NO |
| 23:17:11 | trakk | why not? |
| 23:18:40 | trakk | yea the USB is designed to accept data from the PC so it can store data on the HD, it would just be a case of accepting data from the tv tuner instead |
| 23:19:09 | | Quit c0utta (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 23:19:19 | uski | nah |
| 23:19:20 | uski | impossible |
| 23:19:25 | uski | for many reasons |
| 23:19:29 | BC|Code | you need a tv tuner with a master USB controller chip and firmware to the the hard drive |
| 23:19:34 | uski | 1) the CPU of the Archos cannot see what comes from the PC |
| 23:19:43 | trakk | :-( |
| 23:19:45 | uski | 2) the USB chip is designed ONLY to act as a IDE driver |
| 23:19:53 | uski | 3) the usb chip is a slave only |
| 23:20:02 | midknight2k3 | hes joking all |
| 23:20:24 | uski | yes but ppl reading the logs might ask on the mailling list, so it is better to clarify everything ;) |
| 23:20:41 | BC|Code | I would opt for "pointlessly difficult" rather than "impossible" |
| 23:20:56 | trakk | ok modify the FM recorder so instead of receiving FM it receives TV broadcasts :-) |
| 23:21:27 | uski | trakk impossible too |
| 23:21:30 | Ctcp | Ignored 2 channel CTCP requests in 58 minutes and 24 seconds at the last flood |
| 23:21:30 | * | BC|Code starts to weep |
| 23:21:34 | uski | do you know the bandwidth of a TV signal ? |
| 23:21:44 | midknight2k3 | BC|Code, are you coding |
| 23:21:49 | BC|Code | radio receivers do not pick up tv pictures |
| 23:21:51 | trakk | about 300Mhz? |
| 23:21:51 | BC|Code | sortfo |
| 23:21:53 | uski | it is impossible to work with it |
| 23:22:01 | uski | with the archos CPU |
| 23:22:04 | uski | too slow |
| 23:22:11 | midknight2k3 | trakk: why must you always do bogus junk |
| 23:22:24 | uski | if it is even 100mhz, the CPU clock is 12 mhz or so |
| 23:22:31 | trakk | ok |
| 23:22:34 | BC|Code | although with the right external circuitry, you could pick up free-to-air analogue mono audio |
| 23:22:45 | uski | right |
| 23:22:56 | trakk | well mid its no different to your polyphonic ringtones or USB digital out |
| 23:23:28 | trakk | or your sdd/ddf even |
| 23:23:38 | midknight2k3 | THATS NOT M SDD |
| 23:24:18 | trakk | lol |
| 23:24:19 | trakk | ok |
| 23:25:30 | | Join mikeholden [0] (jirc@ACB99357.ipt.aol.com) |
| 23:25:32 | | Quit mikeholden (Client Quit) |
| 23:27:49 | trakk | ah well |
| 23:27:51 | trakk | never mind |
| 23:28:11 | midknight2k3 | track |
| 23:28:13 | midknight2k3 | stop it |
| 23:28:26 | trakk | what? |
| 23:28:31 | BC|Code | i want an external data->tv converter that I can feed with the digital I/O |
| 23:28:35 | midknight2k3 | trakk (jirc@ACB99357.ipt.aol.com) has joined #rockbox |
| 23:28:41 | midknight2k3 | mikeholden (jirc@ACB99357.ipt.aol.com) has joined #rockbox |
| 23:28:51 | midknight2k3 | stop stealing peoples nicks and ... all your stuff |
| 23:29:22 | midknight2k3 | Whoa |
| 23:29:22 | midknight2k3 | http://rockbox.haxx.se/requests.shtml |
| 23:29:24 | trakk | got your iPod yet? |
| 23:29:39 | midknight2k3 | nah |
| 23:29:41 | midknight2k3 | rush delivery |
| 23:29:46 | midknight2k3 | should get here later afternoon |
| 23:30:05 | uski | you bought an iPod ??? |
| 23:30:06 | trakk | ok |
| 23:30:09 | midknight2k3 | no |
| 23:30:12 | midknight2k3 | er |
| 23:30:13 | midknight2k3 | "yes" |
| 23:30:17 | uski | aaaaaaw |
| 23:30:25 | * | uski takes his gun |
| 23:30:25 | midknight2k3 | what |
| 23:30:29 | midknight2k3 | lol |
| 23:30:38 | uski | Cancel your order. |
| 23:30:42 | uski | NOW! |
| 23:30:50 | midknight2k3 | i didnt order one |
| 23:30:56 | midknight2k3 | i hate ipods |
| 23:31:19 | trakk | http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=705949&group_id=44306&atid=439121 |
| 23:31:29 | * | uski puts back his gun in the box |
| 23:31:48 | midknight2k3 | track |
| 23:31:52 | midknight2k3 | the first comment was YOU |
| 23:32:10 | trakk | what? |
| 23:32:22 | midknight2k3 | it was posted only a few minuets after your request was posted |
| 23:32:44 | trakk | really? |
| 23:32:46 | trakk | lemme see |
| 23:33:27 | * | midknight2k3 has to go |
| 23:33:30 | midknight2k3 | bye all |
| 23:34:03 | | Part midknight2k3 ("parting") |
| 23:34:05 | trakk | http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=732602&group_id=44306&atid=439121 |
| 23:35:46 | | Quit ove ("Leaving") |
| 23:37:55 | | Quit trakk ("Leaving") |
| 23:40:02 | | Quit Dogger ("Client Exiting") |
| 23:49:55 | | Quit scott666 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 23:50:18 | | Join scott666 [0] (scott666@c-24-245-58-245.mn.client2.attbi.com) |
| 23:50:40 | | Join hardeep [0] (1098@208.247.65.237) |
icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).