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#rockbox log for 2004-01-02

00:00:05Garyi have 7xx ripping and i like the supertagging
00:00:27Garyhow fast does winamp rip?
00:01:18hardeepno idea on ripping speed... i just use to play mp3s
00:02:07Garyill try it out - any other programs for cataloguing my music?
00:02:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:02:25top_blokewinamp does 2x unless u get pro
00:02:35top_blokewhich is limited only by ur drive
00:02:50Garyyou like winamp pro?
00:03:11top_blokei dont have pro
00:03:21top_blokejust regular
00:03:42top_bloketoo lazy to find a keygen
00:05:51Garytrying to modify the playlist within the archos
00:06:18top_blokehow u gonna do that?
00:07:54Garynot sure - maybe go into the text editor for each m3u file?
00:08:05Garyprobably not realistic for 250 playlists
00:21:40 Quit BC|busy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:26:28 Join BC|Code [0] (
00:27:06 Quit Gary (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:29:28 Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection)
00:30:05 Join Gary [0] (
00:30:25 Join AciD [0] (
00:52:11Garyjust wanted to say thanks
00:52:17Garyi now see from practising that
00:52:34Garyi need the structure on my archos to match the structure on the m3us
00:58:31BC|Codedoes anybody online have any idea how to pass a path to plugin_load() ?
00:58:54BC| looks impossible, but surely cannot be or features I use could not work!
01:01:42BC|Codeforget that - think I've got my head on backward
01:01:54BC|Code(and gf whinging in my ear)
01:36:13 Join Strath [0] (
01:38:40 Quit trackkk ("Leaving")
01:42:41 Join scott666 [0] (
02:02:19***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:15:14 Nick c0utta{beach} is now known as c0utta (
02:16:07c0uttahey Gary, another good option is tag&rename for m3u.
02:16:40BC|Codefor id3 taggers for windows ...I quite like ID3Tagit
02:17:22c0uttai like t&r because it uses freedb and
02:17:31Garyill try it out
02:17:52c0uttai just use a batch file to copy from my PC to the archos
02:18:12BC|Codenever understood that can you use freedb to identify an MP3?
02:18:28c0uttaBC|Code: you need the whole album
02:18:55c0uttayou can use for individual songs
02:19:14c0uttai used to use ultratagger but it seems to corrupt some of the id3 tags
02:19:55c0uttathat was the problem i had with rockbox a few days ago. linus still hasn't fixed it, but at least we could isolate the problem
02:20:06top_blokehey c0utta do u code?
02:20:16c0uttatop_bloke: badly, but yes
02:20:29top_blokeor BC if youre not busy
02:20:51top_blokei wanna show they day of the week
02:21:14top_blokebut rb gives me a number
02:21:19BC|Codemulti language?
02:21:25top_blokenah english for now
02:21:45BC|Codehow many times will you use the code within your app?
02:22:00BC|Codewhat is the number range from rb?
02:22:11top_blokewell today is 04
02:22:16top_blokenot really sure
02:22:24top_blokewhere it starts or ends
02:22:41BC|Codeneed to know that, guess sunday==0, sat==6
02:22:50top_blokeyeah thats what i assume
02:23:10 Nick c0utta is now known as c0utta{lunch} (
02:23:17BC|Codegiven that assumption...
02:23:18top_blokei can just go if(wday == 0) {day = "Sun"}
02:23:44top_blokeelse if(wday == 1) {day = "mon"} and so on
02:23:52top_blokebut is there an easier way?
02:24:14top_blokealso gonna do it for months
02:24:16BC|Codeyes... but you have to give me time to type it in ;)
02:24:30top_bloketyep what?
02:24:38top_blokeok sorry
02:24:40top_blokei wait
02:24:43BC|Codedid you want some example code?
02:24:50BC|Codeor an explanation?
02:24:52top_blokeyeah sorry
02:25:06top_blokeexample better
02:25:08BC|Codethen let me give you some code to explain ;)
02:25:17top_blokelol ok
02:25:18BC|Codeone other...
02:25:33BC|Codeis it okay if the day name is returned with spaces on the end?
02:26:19 Join kurzhaarrocker [0] (
02:26:51top_blokebtw the centering thing was either right all along or the lcd_update(); fixed it
02:27:05top_blokecause it works now
02:27:19BC|Codehate it when that happens
02:27:29BC|Code"But WHAT did I do???" lol
02:28:03top_blokelol it was one of the 2
02:28:25BC|Codesorry, trying to discover which string functions we have in rockbox....
02:29:13kurzhaarrockerall these lcd_puts functions and so on write into a buffer. No data is written to the lcd at that moment. lcd_update transfers that data to the lcd. Thus without lcd_update you don't see what you wrote.
02:29:46top_blokethis part of the loop in f2 menu though
02:30:03top_blokeit does lcd_update(); later
02:30:07top_blokei dunno
02:30:36kurzhaarrockerAnd if you comment out that lcd_update line you won't see the f2 menu either. Though still it works
02:30:52top_blokewhat do u mean works?
02:31:17top_blokeit wont show right
02:31:21kurzhaarrockeryou just don't see the text, everything else is the same.
02:31:34BC|Codechar sDay[10];
02:31:34BC|Codeint iDay;
02:31:34BC|Codestrncpy(sDay,"sunday monday tuesday wednesdaythursday friday saturday "[iDay*9],9);
02:31:56top_blokewoah looks complicated
02:32:09BC|CodesDay is somewhere to store the resutl
02:32:12kurzhaarrockersecond parameter of strncpy must be a size, I think
02:32:21BC|CodeiDay is the 0...6
02:32:29BC|Code"days" is a string of days
02:32:44BC|Code[] say where to start
02:32:59BC|Code0*9==0 for sunday start at position 0 in the string
02:33:09BC|Code1*9==9 ...
02:33:26BC|Codethe final ",9)" is the length of a word
02:33:35top_blokethink this is too advanced for me
02:33:36BC|Codein fact both 9's are the length
02:33:41top_blokeso what do i do with that then?
02:33:58BC|Codetake the long line of code
02:34:18BC|Codereplace "iDay" with whatever variable you currently store the day number in
02:34:42top_blokeand whats the name of the string that it puts the day in?
02:34:42BC|Codeand replace sDay with the String into which you want the result placed
02:34:44 Join ely78373 [0] (
02:34:53top_blokeso sday
02:34:55top_blokeok i get it
02:35:01ely78373can someione help me
02:35:20top_blokei think
02:35:28BC|Codeyou can, if you like, replcae "iDay" with "rb->getday()"
02:35:43BC|Code(or whatever the function is called)
02:35:50top_blokei have it put that in wday
02:36:02ely78373i have the rec 15
02:36:07ely78373and the videos r workin
02:36:09kurzhaarrockerIs there a difference to
02:36:09kurzhaarrockerchar *sDay[] = {"Sun", "Mon", "Tue"}; /* and so on */
02:36:11BC|Codeso you have wday = getday() ??
02:36:11ely78373i just cant hear any sound
02:36:22top_bloke int wday = tm->tm_wday;
02:36:43BC|Codeor, if you prefer you can do it The way that Kurz will now explain
02:36:48kurzhaarrockerely78373: me too
02:37:00top_bloketheres no sound in vids
02:37:04BC|Codethere are precisely 703,492 different ways to do this - lol
02:37:20top_blokei'll go w your way right now
02:37:25kurzhaarrockerBC|Code and increasing ...
02:37:34 Quit methangas (" I love my HydraIRC -> <-")
02:37:42ely78373when will there be sounds
02:38:11kurzhaarrockerely78373 I have no idea.
02:38:38ely78373well i hope whoever came up with thsi video thing will find a way to get sounds on it
02:38:56ely78373also is it possible that i can change my greyscale screen and get a color screen
02:39:24kurzhaarrockerVery unlikely, as that would require heavy hardware mods, too.
02:39:50ely78373cause the vidz aint that good
02:39:56ely78373with grey scale
02:40:08kurzhaarrockerwhat do you expect. Its a music device, not a video recorder.
02:40:16ely78373i guess but still
02:40:24ely78373sound there should be
02:40:33ely78373when did this vidz thing come out
02:41:26kurzhaarrockerI consider it very likely that there will be sound with video somewhen.
02:41:35ely78373i hope so
02:41:40ely78373aight peace
02:42:03 Quit Gary ("Leaving")
02:44:49*kurzhaarrocker is still puzzled by BCs strncpy code.
02:45:31kurzhaarrockerBC|Code does it work with strings of different lengths?
02:46:38BC|Codeno, hence the space padding
02:59:30 Quit AciD ("Hiroshima 45, Tchernobyl 86, Windows 95")
03:04:49 Quit top_bloke (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:06:42 Join top_bloke [0] (
03:06:53top_blokesorry i got disconnected
03:07:02BC|Codewhere did you get up to?
03:07:03top_blokeanyway it dont work and i get a warning
03:07:20top_blokewarning: passing arg 2 of `strncpy' makes pointer from integer wi
03:07:28top_blokethout a cast
03:08:11BC|Codeput an & JUST before the first quote
03:08:33top_blokebefore sunday?
03:08:43BC|Codebefore the quote before sunday
03:08:57kurzhaarrocker&"sunday ...
03:09:16BC|Codethe []'s dereference the string!
03:09:27BC|Codethe & references it again
03:09:37BC|Codesorry, I should have compiled it before i sent it
03:10:08kurzhaarrockerto me c was a bag of surprises and mysteries since ever
03:10:42BC|Codeyou'll kick yoursefl when the penny drops
03:10:46top_blokealready compiled lol
03:10:47 Quit top_bloke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:11:13 Join top_bloke [0] (
03:11:20BC|Codeback so soon
03:11:24top_blokegod i dont know wtf is up w my connection
03:11:40BC|Codethe joys of autologin - lol
03:11:40top_blokeanyway it compiled
03:11:53top_blokei just get my standard warning lol
03:11:57BC|Codedoes it print garbage though ...this is the big question
03:12:05top_blokelets see
03:14:01kurzhaarrockerIf you want it to print garbage you shouldn't put replace &"Sunday ... with &"garbage
03:14:53top_blokelol it shows "day Frida"
03:14:58top_blokeoh man lol
03:15:36top_blokeis that considered garbage
03:15:43BC|Codehmmm, kinda
03:15:58BC|Codecut'n'paster your line
03:16:01top_blokestrncpy(sDay,&"Sunday Monday Tuesday WednesdayThursday Friday Saturday "[9*wday],9);
03:17:17BC|Codecan you count the dashed you end
03:17:47top_blokeneed more spaces?
03:18:19top_blokeyeah i get it
03:18:19BC|Codecount all nine chars :)
03:18:22kurzhaarrockereach word (including spaces) must be exaclty 9 characters long
03:19:30top_blokegot it
03:19:30top_blokeanyway i dont think i have room for the whole word
03:19:31top_blokeif i wanna fit the whole dat
03:19:31DBUGEnqueued KICK top_bloke
03:20:00top_blokelike Thu, Jan 1, 2004 is what im thinkin
03:20:37top_blokechar sDay[3];
03:21:55top_blokewould that do?
03:21:56top_blokebut this is harcoded to english
03:21:56top_blokeah so what
03:22:23BC|Codeyes language support calls for a very different approach
03:22:29top_blokeok month should be easy now
03:22:29top_blokethanks a lot BC and kurzhaarrocker
03:22:36kurzhaarrockertop_bloke are you coding a plugin?
03:22:46top_blokeno this is for the f2 screen
03:23:05top_blokeon top theres room
03:23:06BC|Codewhat is the "f2 screen"?
03:23:13top_blokewhen u hit f2?
03:23:37BC|Codeyou mean the three shortcuts thing?
03:23:45kurzhaarrockerbut on a f2 screen internationalization would be desirable.
03:24:16top_blokethe middle button under the lcd
03:24:16top_blokeor r u kidding
03:24:16kurzhaarrockerBC|Code yes. Its in apps/screens.c
03:24:40top_blokewell doesnt everyone understand mon, tues
03:24:51BC|Codehee hee :)
03:24:59top_blokeif not
03:25:02top_blokethey SHOULD
03:25:04top_blokenah j/k
03:25:43kurzhaarrockerThere are already internationalized 3 letter week days in the .lang files.
03:25:45top_blokeif i recall, the setting screen for date has no international support
03:25:45top_blokeand day of week
03:25:55kurzhaarrocker-> hardly no work to internationalize
03:25:55top_blokethere are?
03:26:22kurzhaarrockersee english.lang , so around line 900
03:26:47top_blokedoes the stting screen use em?
03:27:43kurzhaarrockerIts used in settings.c
03:28:36top_blokei tried to stal that code
03:28:37top_blokethat sets the date
03:29:41kurzhaarrockerwhat went wrong when you tried to steal that code?
03:29:49top_blokei dunno
03:29:56top_blokei couldnt understand it
03:31:09top_blokeoh they DO use LANG_WEEKDAY_SUNDAY,
03:31:25top_blokei dunno what i was looking at before then
03:31:45kurzhaarrockerdo you need those daynames in a local variable within a function or is it a module variable outside of any functions?
03:32:08top_blokei didnt get a word of that
03:32:20top_blokelol sorry
03:32:39kurzhaarrockeryour sDay variable - is that declared within a function?
03:33:43kurzhaarrockercool. Then you could make it like this:
03:33:43kurzhaarrockerchar *sDay = {str(LANG_WEEKDAY_SUNDAY), str(LANG_WEEKDAY_MONDAY), ...};
03:33:57kurzhaarrockersorry: char *sDay[] of course
03:34:16top_blokeand keep everything the same?
03:34:44kurzhaarrockerWell maybe you should make sDay sday, or Zagor will slay you.
03:35:07top_blokeright away sir
03:35:38top_blokegod text pad is starting to bug me to register
03:35:41kurzhaarrockerwell, no, when you later want to have the string for monday you'd write sday[1]
03:36:14top_blokewell i dont know what to write
03:36:26top_blokecause wday tells it what to write
03:36:31BC|Codeyou could look at the code i just sent you ...just an idea?
03:36:41kurzhaarrockerthen its sday[wday]
03:36:51top_blokeeven more comlicated eh
03:37:19top_blokemore code
03:37:21BC|Codeyeah you got to cut and paste MUCH more this time
03:37:53top_blokeAND the same thing for date
03:37:57kurzhaarrockerBut with the internationalizattion that strncpy approach doesn't work any more.
03:38:11top_blokei'll make screens.c twice the size!
03:38:25top_blokemonth that is
03:38:29top_blokeby date i mean month
03:38:44BC|CodeLMAO -no sympath from the man who's just written 2500 lines of new code for the audio control
03:39:01CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
03:39:01*kurzhaarrocker is impressed
03:39:31top_blokeme too
03:39:34top_blokefor rockbox?
03:39:36BC|Codei get to waste the rest of tonight trying to work out htf to get the rocks to taget the right dir for the new sim code
03:39:41BC|Codeyes for rockbox
03:39:56kurzhaarrockerAnd to be honest: the lack of a _good_ sound menu is a major drawback compared with the original firmware.
03:40:09top_blokeyeah sliders ans stuff
03:40:29BC|Codeno INACCURATE sliders in MY code!!!
03:40:49kurzhaarrockerBut not a new screen for each number I hope?
03:41:23BC|CodeI've got it all on one screen - but eveyrbody keeps complaining about that
03:41:32kurzhaarrockernot me.
03:41:41top_blokei'm not
03:41:41kurzhaarrocker(well I haven't seen it yet)
03:41:45top_blokeme neither
03:41:49BC|Codelinus, and I *thought* Kurz!?
03:41:51top_blokei'm sure its good tho
03:42:15top_blokeahh what do they know?
03:42:17BC|Codetwo people bashing me about wanting it to scroll more than a screen
03:42:20kurzhaarrockerBC|Code all I said was that it would preferable not to tie the user to a special font other than the system font
03:42:28BC|Codeyep - that's it!
03:42:31BC|CodeI was right!
03:42:33top_blokecan u scroll the slider?
03:42:38BC|Codewhat slider?
03:42:47top_blokethe sound slider
03:42:57DBUGEnqueued KICK BC|Code
03:42:57BC|Code[02:40] <BC|Code> no INACCURATE sliders in MY code!!!
03:43:10top_blokeor keep all the sliders in place and scroll the text on the side
03:43:23kurzhaarrockertop_bloke are you talking about a scrollbar for the whole page?
03:44:03top_blokeno the sliders
03:44:15top_blokemake them scroll by if the user has a huge font
03:44:22top_blokebut that seems stupid now
03:45:52top_blokeyeah so do the sliders
03:45:54kurzhaarrockerBC|Code: do you run in problems with the height or the width of the screen with the system font?
03:47:21BC|Codeit was a choice! height
03:48:09BC|Codewidth is PROBABLY okay
03:48:30kurzhaarrockerok. Just for a moment I had the vision of many scrolling text thingies on a sound setting screen. It was a nightmare.
03:48:49top_blokeonly the one youre on would scroll
03:48:54BC|CodeTHERE IS ******NO********* SCROLLING
03:49:07top_blokehow will u fit?
03:49:08kurzhaarrockerBC|Code: uff
03:49:16top_blokewith big fonts
03:49:36BC|Codethere is currently no font support
03:49:45top_blokeok good
03:50:33top_blokeis it a problem is moth starts with 1?
03:50:54kurzhaarrockerI'm so thrilled. I can hardly wait for the next band practice session when I can test the recording trigger and prerecording in real life!
03:51:12top_blokeyou record with archos?
03:51:34kurzhaarrockertop_bloke: That's what I'd expect
03:51:34kurzhaarrockertop_bloke: yes, of course. That's why I bought it.
03:52:01top_blokei guess ill make a new int and -1 from mon
03:52:28top_blokeu rec on line in?
03:52:52top_blokewhat u mean by recordin trigger?
03:52:55kurzhaarrockerI have a self made microphone preamp
03:53:33kurzhaarrockerrecording trigger = it starts recording automatically when a volume level is exceeded and stops the recording when there is silence.
03:53:42top_blokeis that in rockbox
03:53:50top_blokei just thought of that when u said it
03:53:54top_blokelike in wavelab
03:54:05kurzhaarrockernot yet, I just uploaded that patch yesterday
03:54:14top_blokedefinitely a nice feature
03:54:23top_blokecan u set on/off levels?
03:54:24 Quit scott666 (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
03:54:27BC|Codehow about FFWD during record breaks the track?
03:54:48top_blokedoesnt play do that?
03:54:50kurzhaarrockerffwd while recording? Into the future?
03:54:55BC|Codenot when i last tried it
03:55:05top_blokeyea i dont know dont record much
03:55:30top_blokei play in a band too but record on the drummers pc
03:55:41top_blokenever thought about the archos
03:56:09kurzhaarrockeryes, for real recordings we use a pc, too. Just for reherasal and as an acustical notepad thats to much hazzle.
03:56:18top_blokeoh ok
03:56:53top_blokecould just use built in mic if u dont care about quality
03:57:21kurzhaarrockerYes, but the hazzle to plug in the mic preamp is bearable to me.
03:57:33top_blokecan i snprintf multiple strings in one?
03:57:39top_blokein one snprintf
03:58:05kurzhaarrockeryes with snprintf(buf, sizeof buf, "%s %s %s", s1, s2, s3);
03:58:07BC|Codesnprintf ( destination, "%s %s %s", string1, string2, string 3);
03:58:16top_blokeok thanks
03:58:29BC|Codei forgot sizeof()
03:58:43BC|Codemine was actually a sprintf()
03:59:11kurzhaarrockerand both of us put in spaces between the strings
03:59:36top_blokeoh and im gonna need some ints in there too
03:59:42top_blokebut i think i can handle it
03:59:58top_blokewhats %2d?
04:00:03BC|Code2 chars long
04:00:14BC|Code%-2d is two chars long left justified
04:00:31BC|Code%02d is 2 chars long zero padded
04:00:34top_blokecan i use %d if my int CAN be 2 chars?
04:00:40kurzhaarrockerI didn't know that.
04:00:50BC|Codeyes, the number is the MINIMUM
04:01:05BC|Codeif you exceeed this count, then the string will expand accordingly
04:01:09kurzhaarrockerBC|Code: what was the tag for hexadecimal output?
04:01:21BC|Code%x or %X
04:01:37kurzhaarrockerfor lower / uppercase ?
04:02:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:02:27kurzhaarrockerthere are rumours that there will be printf stuff in java 1.5 -> good to learn a few things in advance.
04:02:52 Join Stevenm [0] (
04:04:21top_blokeoh can i use , in qutes?
04:04:46BC|Codeyou cannot use \ or "
04:04:56BC|Code\ is \\ " is \"
04:05:03BC|Codetab is \t
04:05:09BC|Codenewline is \n
04:05:12BC|Codereturn is \r
04:05:16 Join scott666 [0] (
04:05:21kurzhaarrockerBC|Code: Is an example of your soundsettings stuff for download anywhere?
04:05:26BC|Codenot atm
04:05:53BC|Codeim working on the next build of the win32sim patch atm
04:06:46kurzhaarrockerLinus broke it by committing the prerecord stuff.
04:06:54BC|Codewell and truly - lol
04:08:19top_blokeok i compiled
04:08:46StevenmDoes ANYONE have a working *nix Dev kit?
04:08:48kurzhaarrockerWhen talking about win32sim patch stuff: Have you found a solution to simulate reading peaks from the mas?
04:09:08kurzhaarrockerStevenm: I work on cygwin
04:09:26Stevenmkurzhaarrocker: How did you get GCC to compile ??
04:10:52kurzhaarrockergcc was not the problem, the sh1 and mig compiler were. But that was more than a year ago and I don't know anything about those troubles any more.
04:11:04Stevenmall right
04:11:30Stevenmdoes anyone know where I can get a pre-compiled package of the development kit for the nix platform?
04:11:53kurzhaarrockerI think in the end I found all info that was neccessary on
04:12:21kurzhaarrockerIf there is no link to a precompiled dev kit I don't know any other sources.
04:12:26StevenmI have tried compiling it before.. twice, following everyone's instructions. I still get build errors
04:12:59 Quit scott666 ("i'll be back...eventually...")
04:16:11dsgStevenm: Been a while, but I don't seem to recall any problems building SH-targetted GCC.
04:16:29Stevenmdsg: Do you still have it ?
04:16:33dsgHaven't set one up for rockbox, but I had a dreamcast devkit up, the DC uses SH-4.
04:17:07kurzhaarrockerI'm off for bed. CU
04:17:10dsgStevenm: Doubt it... reinstalled my desktop machine since then.
04:17:24 Quit kurzhaarrocker ("Trillian (")
04:17:35dsgBesides, it had alot of stuff you probably don't want (gcc built with newlib support and such).
04:18:25Stevenm../../../gcc-3.0.4/gcc/config/sh/lib1funcs.asm:166: Error: no such instruction: `rts'
04:18:25Stevenmmake[2]: *** [libgcc/./_ashiftrt.o] Error 1
04:19:52dsgFína finishing move.
04:19:59dsgYou have binutils compiled, I trust?
04:23:30dsgWel... not sure. I didn't have any problems with it at the time.
04:24:06BC|CodeKurz: I am not working on mpeg emulation, just UI emulation
04:25:22BC|Codehardware level audio device emulation is a ludicrous task
04:25:42top_blokeBC|Code do u have an easier way to make sims?
04:26:04BC|Codesimulation of.....
04:26:24BC|Codeyou want me to simulation windows?
04:26:38top_blokesim rockbox
04:26:41top_blokeon windows
04:26:58BC|Codewhat does it not do currently that you want
04:27:11top_blokeno i dont have full cygwin
04:27:22top_blokei thought u were doing another solution
04:27:25top_blokeforget it
04:27:48BC|Codei have a cut down dev kit if that's what you mean ...or I can forget everything as you prefer?
04:28:13top_blokeis up for dl anywhere?
04:28:19BC|Codeonly on my machine
04:28:26BC|Codeno interest
04:28:36top_blokei have interest
04:28:46top_blokei'm sick of USBing every time
04:29:00top_blokegot garbage last time - %s instead of %d
04:29:04BC|Codeme too - hence shit loads of work on getting the sim up and running
04:29:22top_blokepeople have interest
04:29:40top_blokei got my fingers crossed on this one
04:29:52BC|Codethe current ver I have has a couple of bodges in it ...but IT WORKS
04:30:09top_blokethats cool
04:30:23top_blokeyou should put it up
04:30:53top_blokemy dl is horrid
04:31:01BC|Code.5K/sec - WTF!!!!!????
04:31:11top_blokeand i will get disconnected long before its done
04:31:18BC|Codewell, you'll have it in a couple of days
04:31:19top_blokei mean put it on a site
04:31:25top_blokei'd get it at school
04:31:32BC|Codemore aggro than I get for
04:31:49top_blokei understand
04:32:15BC|Codeif i could fix it, then I would upload it, but I just cant get the help
04:32:41top_blokenone of the devs use win?
04:33:08BC|Codeyeah, but they all install 60TB of cygwin
04:33:36top_blokewell i'm with u on this one
04:34:02BC|Codewhy u only get .5K down - you hammering your line with p2p
04:34:25top_blokesomething like that
04:35:07BC|Codeyou run a porn server!
04:35:34top_blokelol yeah thats it
04:35:39top_blokeoff 56k
04:38:31BC|Codeanyone here understand MAKEFILEs
04:41:31BC|Codelol - aint that typical!
04:41:51top_blokelol dont look at me
04:42:04top_blokei dont understand anything
04:42:20BC|Codei think a more fair question is ...does ANYBODY ANYWHERE EVER understand the damn things
04:42:30top_blokei'm sure they do
04:42:40top_blokejust not here right now
04:42:59BC|CodeI'm sure people just copy one from someone else and botch it - it's all i ever do !
04:44:05BC|CodeI'll bodge it ..then someone will complain ..then I will say "so fix it" lol
04:45:12top_blokeyeah so do it
04:53:33 Join MALOW [0] (
04:54:35top_blokeIT WORKS
04:55:09MALOWas he is the commando for use halftone.exe?
04:55:18top_blokeThu Jan 1, 04
04:55:36BC|Codeoohh - you have the Y3K bug!
04:55:39top_blokehalftone your.yuv output.rvf
04:55:56BC|Codetwo digit year
04:56:06top_blokeon purpose
04:56:15top_blokei may barely fit 2004 on there
04:56:35top_blokeyou know archos stores the year since 1900
04:56:40top_blokein 3 digits
04:57:06top_blokeand they add 2000 to it
04:57:17top_blokeso it definitely has a y3k bug
04:57:40top_blokethanks a LOT BC!
04:57:45top_blokefinally works
04:57:56BC|Codecool :)
04:58:12MALOWthanks top_bloke i have a win32 program for convert avi to yuv, in case u interesting it.....
04:58:26top_blokewhats a yuv anyway
04:58:34BC|Codeus video standard
04:59:00top_blokeis there anyway to have pics in the video viewer?
04:59:04top_blokeor loop video
04:59:22BC|Codesee lena.rvf
04:59:45top_blokedid you see it with the latest build
04:59:51top_blokedoesnt loop for me
04:59:54BC|Codevideo loops are you a cult leader?
05:00:11top_blokeyeah we got a mass suicide tonight
05:00:21top_blokeand i need to get my loops straight
05:00:23BC|Codecool - can I come and watch
05:00:35top_blokeu gotta do it too
05:00:42top_blokedie that is
05:01:10BC|Codewho's gonna document your greatness for the anals of time?
05:01:25top_blokeisnt that anals?
05:01:41top_blokei will go down as a leader
05:01:50top_blokei mean annals
05:02:13top_blokeanals is...
05:02:15top_blokewell u know what
05:02:41top_blokeanyway the current build doesnt loop lena!
05:03:34top_bloketry it
05:03:37top_blokemaybe i ought to get the original video rock
05:04:15BC|Codeor speak to jorg
05:15:14 Quit MALOW ("...")
05:26:24BC|Codenew win32sim patch uploaded
05:26:47 Quit Stevenm ("Client exiting")
05:53:26top_blokei'm rolling out
05:53:39 Quit top_bloke ("The mind is a terrible thing to taste. Wasted 2 hours 43 minutes and 43 seconds online.")
06:02:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:28:43 Join arspy87 [0] (
06:29:01BC|Codearse pie :) yo
06:29:08arspy87:) hey whats up
06:29:15BC|Codenew winsim patch :)
06:29:36arspy87nice! im unwinding froma really annoying 1GB session of ripping CDs with musicmatch
06:29:56arspy87ripping = not fun
06:30:00arspy87tagging = worse
06:30:03BC|Codeno -
06:30:05BC|Codealso no
06:30:13BC|Codewith EAC it is even more painful
06:30:20BC|Codeabout 35mins/album
06:30:28arspy87wow, why so long?
06:30:37BC|Codeperfect rips
06:31:00arspy87and i thought 5 minutes was painful
06:31:18BC|Codespell checking freedb is also a pain
06:31:38BC|Codethen i get an album cover and add catalog numbers to the id3
06:31:53BC|Codeadd artist home page etc. etc.
06:31:58arspy87wow i feel so lazy
06:32:02BC|Codethe worst was my yello collection
06:32:31BC|Codesome "best of" tracks are the same, some are complete remixes
06:32:42BC|Codehad to listen to them all and work out which was which
06:33:08arspy87ugh, Best Of / Greatest Hits albums are the worst - took me forever to actually get them distinguished on my mp3 player
06:33:24BC|Codeonly do my genres by album ...thank god
06:34:33arspy87so what are you coding this time, blue?
06:34:38arspy87me too, brb
06:51:35arspy87what are you coding, blue?
06:51:40BC|Codeworking on some new audio code
06:52:20arspy87aha, the infamous audio code
06:52:52BC|Codeit's getting that way isn't it? lol
06:53:17arspy87lol yeah
06:53:20BC|CodeI'm doing a maths bit atm - i am USELESS at math
06:53:31arspy87i used to be good in math
06:53:47arspy87until precalculus arrived on the scene
06:54:34BC|Codei need to represent 0...524288 in terms of 0..1 given a resolution of 3 decimal places
06:55:02BC|Codewithout ever using a decimal point
06:55:14BC|Codethus my result is 0...1000
06:55:24BC|Code1000 being 1.000 == 524288
06:55:44arspy87ah, got it (i think)
06:55:51BC|Codeplease do :)
06:56:15arspy87i don't think i'll ever understand C, i cant even get javascript ;)
06:56:34BC|Codeforget C ...what's the math?
06:57:53arspy87524288... is that something in base-2?
06:58:20BC|Codethe full problem is a 20bit 2's complement number ...but I didn't want to scare you
06:58:42BC|Code524288 should be represented by the variable "max"
06:59:10arspy87ok... already scared but doing best to comprehend
06:59:29BC|Codedon't worry about the source of the number ...just trust it
07:00:01arspy87im getting my calculator for this
07:00:45arspy87well 524288 is really 2^19
07:02:09BC|Codeyou know - i think you're onto something
07:02:24arspy87possibly, im getting my C book right now
07:02:57BC|Codeno, I just joined your insanity for a moment
07:03:12arspy87oh, lol
07:03:30arspy87when you say 0..1 what dot he '.'s mean?
07:03:41BC|Codethe 20th bit is the sign!!
07:03:57BC|Code0.000 to 1.000
07:04:16BC|Codea resolution of 3 decimal places
07:04:17arspy87ah ok
07:04:58BC|Codebut as you CANNOT have decimal places... the result must be expressed as 0 to 1000
07:05:35BC|Codethen i will "draw a dot" in the right place as I print it
07:05:59arspy87ok so you need to represent 524288 wihtout using decimal place? or... 0...524288?
07:06:08arspy87= dumb
07:06:54BC|Code0 = 0 1 = 524 2 = 1048 ...... 1000 = 524288
07:07:10arspy87AHA! now i see
07:07:38BC|Codeactually 2 = 1049
07:07:48arspy87um, why?
07:07:56arspy87round off error?
07:08:17BC|Code524.288 = 524 1048.576 = 1049
07:08:41BC|Codealthough that really isn't the biggest issue
07:08:45arspy87oh... ok now i get it. makes sense now...
07:09:49BC|Codeit's a dumb 30 char expression ...i'm just useless at math!
07:10:36BC|Codetook me christ know how long to get hex = (524288*decimal)/1000
07:10:45BC|Code(which is the problem in reverse)
07:11:27arspy87nah actually i dont get it either lol
07:11:58BC|Codeoh well
07:12:49arspy87why must C make it so difficult to use a simple decimal point....
07:12:56BC|Codeit doesn't
07:15:49BC|Codethis is NOT a "C" issue
07:19:00BC|CodeI THINK I've got it!
07:19:15BC|Codedec = (((value*(1000*1000))/0x80000)+500)/1000;
07:21:15BC|Codewhich is all very good apart from the overflow condition that occurs
07:26:55BC|Codeor even ....dec = (value*1000)/0x80000;
07:31:12BC|Codei knew it would be simple
07:34:45arspy87so some random amount of zeroes followed by 80000 equals 524288?
07:35:00arspy87wait that doesnt make sense im probably wrong
07:35:32BC|Code$0000000000000000000000080000 == $00000080000 == $80000 = 524288d
07:36:00arspy87AH YES
07:36:01arspy87you got it yay
07:36:08arspy87just figured it out
07:36:10arspy87onmy calculator
07:36:16BC|Codeyou do know about base 16?
07:36:28arspy87not really
07:36:39BC|Codeyou cannot program without it
07:36:46BC|Codenot real stuff anyways
07:37:09arspy87thats in the "skip me on your first reading because this is a techie section" section of my book
07:37:26BC|Codelearn base 2, and base 16 if you want to program low level stuff
07:37:49BC|Coderun screaming at the word "BCD"
07:37:58arspy87i know base 2
07:38:06arspy87computers are not smart
07:38:19BC|Codeconvresion from base 2 -> 16 is stupidly simple
07:38:48 Quit hardeep ("[BX] Twat?! I cunt hear you!")
07:39:08BC|Codeoh yes hardeep - very polite
07:40:56c0utta{lunch}hey BC, what do I need to set up the win32 simulator ?
07:41:16BC|Codei got a zip file with the cygwin & rockbox stuff in it
07:41:29BC|Codethen the latest source and the latest winsim patch
07:46:32c0utta{lunch}i still don't understand the development environment very well
07:46:40 Nick c0utta{lunch} is now known as c0utta (
07:46:52c0uttais cygwin like a linux for win32 ?
07:47:36arspy87c++ for dummies forces me to use GNU C++ which STINKS, i'm a visual person
07:47:48BC|Codeyou can, if you prefer, install cygwin with their setup util and then get the rockbox tools from rockbox
07:47:50c0uttai have cygwin at least. i do patch and diff in there
07:48:04c0uttaand make of course
07:48:12BC|Codedo you have all the sh-1 compilers in place?
07:48:41c0uttahow do i tell ?
07:48:43BC|Codearspy87: buy a different book !
07:49:43arspy87lol i d2d, now i have Dev C++
07:49:51arspy87d2d = did
07:50:00c0uttaBC|Code: i used
07:50:24BC|Codeoh righty ..rolands old dev kit :)
07:50:39c0uttais there a better way ?
07:50:49 Join thu [0] (~thu@
07:50:51c0uttai use crimson editor for the coding, then make in cygwin
07:50:57BC|Codeyou cannot build sims with the old dev kit
07:51:06c0uttathen copy to rockbox from build-dir
07:51:22c0uttaok, where is the "new" dev kit ?
07:51:38BC|Code[06:41] <BC|Code> i got a zip file with the cygwin & rockbox stuff in it
07:51:47BC|Code...on my hdd
07:51:57c0uttadcc send ?
07:52:12arspy87well i'm out, ttyl
07:52:22c0uttac u arspy87
07:52:27arspy87good luck on your coding, BC :)
07:52:31 Part arspy87
07:52:50BC|Codesorry, no can do, you have me blocked ;)
07:52:57c0uttatry again
07:53:03BC|Codeoop - hang on...
07:53:07BC|Code-c0utta- DCC SEND RockBox-DevKit.exe BLOCKED. I don't accept files of that filetype.
07:53:19BC|Codeit's a self extracting 7-zip
07:53:46c0uttatry again - i've enabled exe
07:54:54c0uttathx BC. it'll take a while
07:55:13BC|Codewhat are you doing with all your bandwidth?????
07:55:32c0uttanothing. i'm at 56K and have nothing else going
07:55:48BC|Code1.2K ...56K gives you 5K
07:56:00BC|Codeyou got ftp?
07:56:18BC|CodeI'll set you up an account - see if ftp is faster
07:56:44c0uttaok. i'll be in/out as i've gotta feed my midget.
07:58:03BC|Codei'm off to bed soon - so not sure what is best
07:58:13BC|Codeit's 0700 here
08:02:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:06:19c0uttait's 17:30 here
08:06:40BC|Codetry the ftp - see if it is faster - if it is - stop the dcc
08:08:33c0uttabizarre: Unknown host
08:08:56BC|Codewould much rather you did not discuss my private details publicly
08:17:34adi|homeBC|Code: not that it's a huge deal.. but you know your sign-on ip is part of the perm irc log right?
08:18:02 Join MiChAeLoL [0] (
08:19:19BC|Codelol - oh yeahhh - never thought of that!
08:19:43BC|Codei think it was karma for me publishing linus' email the other night ;)
08:21:59 Join oxygen77 [0] (
08:42:40 Quit thu ("brb")
08:46:27 Join Stevenm [0] (
09:09:41 Join scott666 [0] (
09:24:38 Quit scott666 ("i'll be back...eventually...")
09:25:54 Quit oxygen77 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
09:35:49 Join oxygen77 [0] (
09:47:51 Part BC|Code
09:57:25 Quit Stevenm ("Client exiting")
10:02:28***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:12:37Strathla la la...
10:48:27dwihnoAnyone around?
10:48:53dwihnoZagor, Bagor, Linus? Don't tell me they STILL are on vacation ;)
10:49:41webmindwell, vacantions are important ya know
10:49:59dwihnosure they are :)
10:50:06 Join kurzhaarrocker [0] (
10:50:11dwihnobut when it comes to rockbox issues, I need to have them around ;)
10:51:05dwihnoI got a few tricks up my sleeve, but before I make the thing way TOO big, I'd like to get feedback from any of them.
11:01:23c0uttadoes anyone here use win32 for their development environment ?
11:01:28dwihnoI do
11:01:39kurzhaarrockerI do
11:02:07c0uttai was taling to bluechip and he sent me an install package
11:02:34c0uttait creates a cygwin environment, i'm now lost
11:02:47c0uttai have downloaded the latest rockbox image
11:02:51dwihnoI guess it was the mini SDK
11:02:58c0uttahow do i get a compile ?
11:03:00dwihnoYou need the tools.tar.bz2 as well
11:03:31kurzhaarrockerextract your tarball somewhere in your home directory of cygwin
11:04:33c0uttai now have 2 copies of cygwin - one using rolands old dev kit
11:04:52kurzhaarrockerhrgh. Sounds like trouble.
11:07:00 Join rastus [0] (
11:07:30rastus\nick c0utta
11:08:09 Nick rastus is now known as coutta (
11:08:53couttai want to create a stock standard rockbox environment to program within
11:09:17couttai'm very familiar with DOS, but know jacksh*t about linux, or cygwin
11:09:28dwihnoWell, the cygwin environment works extraordinary well.
11:09:50dwihnoBut you can't have many simultaneous cygwin environments - it's bound to give you problems.
11:10:03couttais this as easy as a "delete"
11:10:17dwihnothere is some kind of registry key you have to erase as well
11:10:23dwihno(or modify)
11:10:33dwihnowhich reflects the home directory (or something similar9
11:19:50kurzhaarrockermaybe the path variable as well
11:25:10 Quit c0utta (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:25:37kurzhaarrockercoutta was that you alter ego who died?
11:26:02 Nick coutta is now known as c0utta (
11:26:23c0uttathe registry key is HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Cygnus Solutions\Cygwin
11:29:19c0uttai need to ask some basic questions.
11:29:43c0uttawhen using cygwin, it seems to default to home/rockbox. is this correct ?
11:29:46kurzhaarrockerI don't know much about basic :)
11:30:24kurzhaarrockerprobably your installation assumes that you are user "rockbox"
11:30:50c0uttaaha. my unix lectures from 1989 are coming back to me
11:31:00kurzhaarrockerBut it is correct that cygwin defaults to your user directory
11:31:45c0uttaunder home/rockbox is where thew rockbox directory tree is stored ?
11:31:59c0uttaapps, docs, firmware & tools
11:32:40kurzhaarrockerI'd even make a subdirectory first as you might want to have servaral parallel development dirs
11:33:26kurzhaarrockereg. I have one for the spliteditor, one for triggered recording, one for user bound key schemes, ...
11:34:21c0uttagood info - i'll do that when i start working on more than 1 1project
11:34:28 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (
11:34:37c0uttaok, how do i get a make ?
11:34:40kurzhaarrockerMoin Dragon!
11:35:06kurzhaarrockermake a build directory parallel to apps or firmware
11:35:26kurzhaarrockerfrom within that directory call ../tools/configure
11:35:29[IDC]Dragon'morning Phil, up again?
11:35:51kurzhaarrocker[IDC]Dragon yes, my uptime is somehow random.
11:36:08[IDC]Dragonyou must be living alone
11:36:17kurzhaarrockerin fact
11:36:41[IDC]Dragoncongrats to your split editor!
11:36:49[IDC]Dragonlooks pretty nice
11:36:59[IDC]Dragonwhat a pity that I don't record
11:37:12kurzhaarrockerThank you.
11:37:19[IDC]Dragondoes it depend on your patch?
11:37:55kurzhaarrockerThe split editor is independent of the triggered recording patch
11:38:25[IDC]Dragonare you done with it, source released?
11:38:30kurzhaarrockerBut there are still improvements to be made. It doesn't split on frame boundaries yet.
11:38:36[IDC]Dragon(I could check it in)
11:38:46[IDC]DragonOK, let's wait.
11:39:14kurzhaarrockerThat might be long as I won't have that much time within the next few weeks.
11:39:29kurzhaarrockerIf you want to commit it as it is I can upload a patch.
11:39:45[IDC]Dragonwhatever you feel comfy with
11:40:13[IDC]Dragonhow do you mean "It doesn't split on frame boundaries yet"?
11:40:21[IDC]Dragonwhat els?
11:40:49[IDC]Dragonjust somewhere in the file?
11:41:03[IDC]Dragonah, hm.
11:41:27[IDC]Dragonit's not difficult to search for frame boundaries.
11:41:35c0uttathanks phil. i have a ajbrec.ajz
11:41:41kurzhaarrockerI've seen some routines in mp3data
11:42:48kurzhaarrockerc0utta you're welcome. Now make many new good features. We must commit things to make the "recent cvs activity" page look right again! :)
11:44:31[IDC]Dragonno mpeg buffer commit so soon...
11:44:40c0uttaha! i'm going to start work on the F2/F3 menu stuff
11:44:55[IDC]DragonI woke up without _the_ big solves-it-all idea
11:45:04kurzhaarrocker[IDC]Dragon the problem with detecting frame boundaries in the split editor is that I'd have to do it on the mp3 buffer. And I haven't found out yet how to calculate the mpeg buffer position from the file position and vica versa
11:45:22c0uttamy next question is...the simulator
11:45:46[IDC]DragonI don't understand...
11:45:57[IDC]DragonThe plugin has no access to mp3 buffer
11:46:14[IDC]Dragonaren't you working solely on file level?
11:46:28[IDC]Dragonand if you write the file, it's in your hands
11:47:43kurzhaarrockerI in fact had to wrap and export some mpeg.c code for determining the file position in a function and put it into the plugin api.
11:48:05[IDC]Dragonah, so the plugin is not independent
11:48:19kurzhaarrockerno, I had to extend the api in many ways
11:48:59[IDC]Dragonthen I won't commit it now
11:50:21[IDC]DragonMY picture about the mp3 buffering is a bit clearer
11:50:48[IDC]Dragonwe don't need to stuff everything into descriptors right away
11:51:06[IDC]Dragonthe source could maintain the old-fashioned ring buffer
11:51:21[IDC]Dragonand just create descriptors on the fly
11:51:35kurzhaarrocker(one thing I wondered about: It's still the task of the drain to bitswap)
11:51:44[IDC]DragonI think we need 3 minimum:
11:51:54[IDC]Dragon1) being played
11:52:08[IDC]Dragon2) ready and sitting there to be used
11:52:22[IDC]Dragon3) subject of current work: bitswap, etc.
11:52:58[IDC]Dragonthe bitswap is a real drawback, if I ever want to play that data again
11:53:31kurzhaarrockerthe descriptor could contain a flag 'bitswapped'
11:53:33[IDC]Dragonwould be great if we could avoid it
11:54:01[IDC]Dragonyes, I was definitely thinking about such type info
11:54:16[IDC]Dragonbut it doesn't really help later
11:54:29[IDC]Dragonif we want to scan
11:54:35 Join matsl [0] (
11:54:48[IDC]DragonHi Mats!
11:54:51kurzhaarrockermaybe we'll need frame detection algos for swapped _and_ unswapped data
11:55:16kurzhaarrockerHi from here, too
11:55:17[IDC]Dragonwe always think the same
11:55:50[IDC]DragonIf we bitswap early, we could do all the parsing on the swapped data
11:56:08[IDC]Dragonbut its probable a PITA
11:56:24kurzhaarrockerPITA? Food?
11:56:34[IDC]Dragonthe opposite
11:56:47[IDC]DragonPain In The A**
11:56:48kurzhaarrockerok, understood
11:57:35[IDC]DragonArchos seems to do the same kind of swap
11:57:46[IDC]DragonI found the table intheir software
11:58:41[IDC]Dragonanother issue when not everything is linked into descriptors:
11:58:57[IDC]Dragonhow can we "inject" mp3 data
11:59:23[IDC]Dragonif we want UI voice inbetween
11:59:44kurzhaarrockerThe drain must be interruptable. But that's a problem with half bitswapped data chunks
12:00:25[IDC]Dragonnot if we bitswap early
12:00:49kurzhaarrockeryou mean when reading files?
12:01:09[IDC]Dragonyes, when reading anything but ID info
12:02:08kurzhaarrockerhm. I'm not sure but I think there was a discussion about that before. One point against it was that that this may increase the disk uptime -> wastes energy.
12:02:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:03:00[IDC]Dragonyou can do it after reading your big chunk
12:03:21[IDC]Dragonbut before passing anything down, or other work with the data
12:04:13kurzhaarrockerBut if we want to start playing early that means that we start playback before the entire data has been bitswapped.
12:04:58kurzhaarrockerBut that again could be a matter of sizing the descriptors.
12:05:28[IDC]Dragonprobably we also start before the entire data has been read
12:05:58[IDC]Dragonor at least, it would be nice.
12:06:04kurzhaarrockerLike the first chunk is just long enough to give the source time to bitswap the 2nd , the large chunk.
12:07:02kurzhaarrockerSo while the 1st chunk is being played the swapper hast time for the 2nd chunk
12:07:49[IDC]Dragonwhich brings us backto 2 pointers, one for swapped and another for unswapped data
12:08:10[IDC]Dragonno big drawback
12:08:13kurzhaarrockerwith the difference that the pointers are wrapped in descriptors.
12:08:47kurzhaarrockerENCAPSULATE! JEHOVA! JEHOVA!
12:08:50[IDC]Dragonnot necessarily, the descriptors are just for the management in the sink.
12:09:09[IDC]Dragonthe source is free to do whatever in private.
12:09:48[IDC]Dragondescriptors are the interface
12:10:40kurzhaarrockeronly data that is 'described' is locked
12:11:11[IDC]Dragononly data in the descriptor passed down is locked
12:11:29[IDC]Dragonuntil a callback function in there is called to return it
12:11:56kurzhaarrocker:) a fine but not so minor difference
12:12:37[IDC]Dragonwhich is?
12:13:11kurzhaarrockerthat you are free to discard the othewise 'described' data at will
12:13:57[IDC]Dragonahem, so?
12:15:17kurzhaarrockerah, forget it.
12:18:36kurzhaarrockerAssume the user wants to beep while playback. The drain is playing back in the middle of a large descriptor. How does it work? The source clears the descriptor queue, inserts the beep descriptor in the descriptor queue, sends the drain a stop (which returns the current position), the drain frees the old big chunk descriptor, the source uses that current position to create a new descriptor from the existent buffer data and inserts that into the d
12:19:47[IDC]DragonI'd like to make that independent from the source, if possible
12:20:00[IDC]Dragonso the source doesn't notice
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12:20:07kurzhaarrockerbut how do we know where to resume after beep?
12:20:20kurzhaarrockerAh, that's a task of the drain
12:20:33[IDC]DragonI was thinking about making these descriptors relatively small
12:20:42[IDC]Dragonso you chain in your data
12:20:57[IDC]Dragonand have a latency of one descriptor payload
12:21:34[IDC]Dragonbut pausing the current would even be more elegant
12:21:49c0uttadwihno: do u use the simulator ?
12:21:59kurzhaarrockermany small descriptors would increas cpu use.
12:22:14[IDC]Dragonwhich is not too bad
12:22:22kurzhaarrockerc0utta yes, but I can't really debug within it.
12:22:38[IDC]Dragonif we just switch a desciptor a few times per second, that's nothing.
12:23:00[IDC]Dragoncurrently, data is passed in 8k blocks to the DMA
12:23:07c0uttakurzhaarrocker: didn't want to disturb you and [IDC]Dragon
12:23:19c0uttayou're both going over me head
12:23:21[IDC]Dragonso the software has to switch that anyway
12:23:30kurzhaarrocker[IDC]Dragon: you're right.
12:23:38[IDC]Dragonc0utta: sorry
12:23:49 Quit uski (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
12:24:02[IDC]Dragonhow long is 8KB?
12:24:20c0uttanp. makes my changes to f2/f3 seem sooo simple
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12:24:26[IDC]Dragonhalf a second at 128kBit
12:25:03kurzhaarrockerThat's on the edge of being problematic for acustical feedback.
12:26:12[IDC]Dragonwell, then make it 4K or whatever
12:27:09[IDC]Dragonwe can't be faster than one DMA buffer, have to let that pass, I think
12:27:47[IDC]Dragonbut you're right, it would be better if this doesn't depend on the chunks provided by the source
12:28:04[IDC]Dragonwhich brings back the side channel
12:28:36[IDC]Dragonso the sink has an extra functional interface to accept side data
12:28:39kurzhaarrockerand that could be managed by the drain, the source wouldn't even notice
12:28:58[IDC]Dragonto be inserted after the current DMA block
12:29:14kurzhaarrockerproblem: -> we keep track of the elapsed time manually. Makes this complicated
12:29:31[IDC]Dragonwhat do you mena by "manually"?
12:29:52[IDC]Dragonthe track is "stopwatched"?
12:30:01kurzhaarrockerThere's a timer that de facto is unsynchronized with the mas
12:30:27[IDC]Dragonwho's maintaining that?
12:30:35kurzhaarrockersomewhere in mpeg.c
12:30:45[IDC]DragonIf we put it to the sink, it could correct the value
12:31:23kurzhaarrockerbut the sink doesn't even know by which source it's fed.
12:31:44kurzhaarrockerAnd it knows even less about the song that is being played.
12:31:57[IDC]Dragonif it has this sideband interface, it could exclude the time for playing that.
12:32:08kurzhaarrockeryes, I see.
12:32:19[IDC]DragonYes, it won't know about songs.
12:32:48[IDC]DragonBut it could provide a clock for the main data playtime.
12:35:10kurzhaarrockerIf it is up to the drain to manage that side channel I don't see a real reason why it shouldn't interrupt even in the middle of a dma chunk.
12:35:34[IDC]Dragondunno if that's technically possible
12:36:15kurzhaarrockerIn worst case the mas must be reset.
12:36:32kurzhaarrockerBut I'm talking about things I don't really know here.
12:36:46[IDC]Dragonso do I
12:37:17kurzhaarrockerI remember there were functions to start /stop dma transfer.
12:40:57kurzhaarrockerI must work for money now. See you later...
12:41:39[IDC]DragonOK, thaks.
12:41:42 Quit kurzhaarrocker ("Trillian (")
12:43:39c0uttacan i ask simulator questions now ?
12:44:04[IDC]Dragonshure, any time
12:46:06c0uttato use the simulator, do you run configure to make another make file and select S for simulator ?
12:46:16c0uttado you then do the make from build-dir ?
12:46:27[IDC]Dragonfor which platform?
12:46:41c0uttawin32. i'm running cygwin
12:47:12[IDC]Dragonwhich compiler?
12:47:50c0uttai assume it's gcc
12:48:05c0uttai'm new to this type of environment!
12:48:06Strathlater guy....time for sleep
12:48:12 Quit Strath ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby")
12:48:31[IDC]Dragonyou use gcc to build for the target (SH CPU)
12:48:49[IDC]Dragonbut for the simulator you need a Win32 compiler
12:49:04[IDC]Dragonto make a Windows program out of it
12:52:14uski[IDC]Dragon: hi
12:52:19c0uttais this gcc-mingw ?
12:52:38[IDC]Dragonc0utta: for example, yes.
12:52:49[IDC]DragonI used MS Developer Studio
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13:10:49c0uttai seem to have all the required components, but can't seem to get a make
13:11:16c0uttado i use the same source, in \home\rockbox ?
13:11:27c0uttaor do i need another copy just for the simulator ?
13:12:01[IDC]DragonI don't know about MinG
13:13:00c0uttai don't have ms developer studio, so that's not an option. sounds easier tho!
13:15:00c0uttai was working with bluechip to setup my environment. i'll wait until he's had a sleep and is back online.
13:15:31[IDC]Dragondid you try to just use make in the sim dir?
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13:17:21c0uttayes, but it seems to be referring to the player, not the recorder and gives compile errors
13:17:45c0uttadon't be concerned. as i said, i'll wait for BC as i don't want to waste everyone's time
13:17:56[IDC]Dragonand if you create a make file in the build dir, with the sim options?
13:20:00c0uttamake errors
13:20:02c0uttamake[1]: *** No rule to make target `buffer.c', needed by `/home/rockbox/build-d
13:20:03c0uttair/.deps/buffer.d'. Stop.
13:20:52[IDC]Dragonhmm, I've never worked with that, sorry.
13:21:17c0uttai've used make, but under a dos environment. i don't feel comfortable yet
13:22:53c0uttai have other questions about submitting patches
13:23:19c0uttaif i was working on project, would i only submit the patch when i'm complete ?
13:23:31c0uttawhat if my project takes me 2 months to complete ?
13:23:53c0uttai'm concerned that cvs and my local copy will get out of sync
13:24:00[IDC]Dragonthen it takes 2 month til we have your patch
13:24:02c0uttaand then be difficult to merge
13:24:19[IDC]Dragonyou should make a patch against the most recent
13:24:55c0uttawhat it two people have made major changes to the same files ?
13:25:16[IDC]Dragonthen it becomes hairy
13:25:31[IDC]Dragonit's OK if the changes don't conflict
13:25:31c0uttai don't like hairy..
13:26:27[IDC]Dragonwhen you're done with your development, you should merge your changes with the latest source
13:26:34[IDC]Dragonthen make a patch from it
13:26:55[IDC]Dragonand clearly state the cvs version/date the patch is for
13:27:25c0uttais it a common practice to split a project into phases and incrementally submit patches ?
13:27:36c0uttato ensure that nothing's broken ?
13:29:24c0uttai sound weird, don;t i ?
13:29:41[IDC]Dragonnot really, what should a patch of something half-done be good for?
13:30:06[IDC]Dragonwhat major rework are you doing?
13:30:33c0uttai'll give you an example. i'm currently working on changes to F2/F3 functionality
13:31:16[IDC]Dragona very common thing to do
13:31:45c0uttai want to do the whole user-config F2/F3 that everyone seems to want
13:32:11c0uttafirstly, i want to insert my own functions as wrappers to the existing f2/f3 functionality
13:32:45c0uttawithin my wrapper i can then do my own coding within worrying about breaking anyone elses
13:41:05 Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection)
13:41:53c0uttaanyway jörg, i appreciate all the work you've done
13:42:31[IDC]Dragonthank you!
13:42:35c0uttathe flashing is excellent, particularly your attention to detail
13:42:49c0uttai can't believe the video either
13:43:20CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
13:43:20*uski should try the video some day
13:43:40[IDC]Dragonyou haven't?
13:43:44c0uttauski: you won't believe it
13:44:12uskii suppose i won't, knowing what joerg is able to do...
13:44:21[IDC]Dragonscared of the download?
13:44:27[IDC]Dragonget the stills
13:44:28c0uttathe video is so smooth - i was amazed
13:44:38uskihmmm where can it be downloaded ?
13:44:44uskiis there a sample movie with it ?
13:44:57[IDC]Dragona few
13:45:09[IDC]Dragon2 stills and the doom clip
13:50:01[IDC]Dragonno need for the provided .ajz any more, since the video player is in the daily build
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14:02:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:06:20uskiok [IDC]Dragon, ill try later on the dat
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14:19:13[IDC]Dragonthat was quick money!
14:19:45kurzhaarrockerI just had to update a few sources I forgot ...
14:20:27kurzhaarrockerbtw: what does [IDC] stand for?
14:20:47[IDC]Dragonthat's a stupid story
14:21:11[IDC]DragonI once created an email account for LAN parties
14:21:21[IDC]Dragonlater used it as my spam account
14:21:39[IDC]Dragonmore later for the group
14:22:12[IDC]Dragonit's a clan shortcut, Instant Death Commando.
14:23:23kurzhaarrockerhm. Lets found a new clan: [RLD] :)
14:23:54[IDC]Dragontell that to Björn
14:25:14kurzhaarrockersources updatet, must work again. See you
14:25:25 Quit kurzhaarrocker ("Trillian (")
14:25:51 Join Guest [0] (~jirc@
14:26:10GuestMmm... hello?
14:26:37GuestIs anyone here?
14:27:03GuestCool... can I ask a question about Rockbox ?
14:27:26[IDC]DragonI guess that's what this channel is for
14:28:02Guest:) my first time... I have a Recorder model, and Rockbox is great... just I've run into a strange problem just now
14:28:27GuestI made a bunch of file folders to organize my mp3 files, but out of the 15 or so folders, only 3 or 4 show up
14:28:53GuestThey all show up on the computer when connected thru USB, but not only the Recorder itself
14:29:18GuestSo I can't access the folders and the songs inside to play them
14:29:56[IDC]Dragonhmm, strange indeed.
14:30:05[IDC]Dragonare they hidden?
14:30:05GuestTell me about it...
14:30:24[IDC]Dragondo you use F2: show all files?
14:30:27GuestOn the Recorder, there's no sign of the folders except the 3 that are visible (they were the first 3 I made)
14:30:50GuestI tried it too, but no difference
14:31:11[IDC]Dragonmaybe you found a bug in the file system
14:31:18[IDC]Dragontell Linus about it
14:31:50GuestThanks for trying :)
14:31:52[IDC]DragonCan there be anything special about them?
14:32:07GuestWell, the files that show up were made a few days ago, the others were all made today
14:32:07[IDC]DragonName too long, nesting too deep, whatever?
14:32:25GuestDoes the length of the file folder name make a difference?
14:32:37GuestBut it's strange, some folders' names ARE long, but others are quite short
14:32:42GuestAnd they all don't show up
14:32:47[IDC]Dragonnot really, unless it's ridiculously long
14:33:39GuestThanks :)
14:33:45 Quit Guest ("Leaving")
14:34:50c0uttajörg, maybe guests folders had extensions on them
14:35:11c0uttamaybe ACDC.123
14:35:22[IDC]Dragonwould that be harmful?
14:36:36c0uttawould they get filtered with "Show files" since the had extensions ?
14:37:32c0uttaif they had extensions ?
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16:50:00Laurent_does anyone know of a program that xors a file against a given number ?
16:50:33Laurent_i'm writing one right now but if a known one already exists I guess that'd be better :)
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17:34:23Laurent_hi kurz
17:34:30kurzhaarrockerHi Laurent_
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18:19:21Laurent_ok, I think I have the "unencrypted" gmini firmware now
18:19:49Laurent_time for a mail
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19:27:04diddystar5does anyone know how to install the min cygwin dev invroment on a drive other than C:/?
19:27:42diddystar5edit the reg entries?
19:30:55diddystar5dosent work
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19:37:17 Join kurzhaarrocker [0] (
19:41:57diddystar5kurzhaarrocker: your patch is great!
19:42:21kurzhaarrockerBut there is still room for improvements.
19:42:58MiChAeLoLever get sound with the video working?
19:43:28kurzhaarrockerI assume somewhen that will happen.
19:43:54diddystar5that will be tricky to get the video+sound to sync
19:44:19diddystar5with the way the video slows down so much when sound buffer refills
19:44:21kurzhaarrockerI think the idea is to multiplex the video file.
19:44:57diddystar5i think if it just constantly loads sound like with the video it may work
19:45:02kurzhaarrockerI know that there was a discussion about storing all the settings in a config file instead of the rtc / superblock. Does anybody know wether something happened already?
19:45:31diddystar5i never saw anything on that disscusion
19:46:16diddystar5but i ignore many disscusion in the mail i get :)
19:46:42diddystar5i just pick the interesting topics
19:47:00kurzhaarrockerSo do I
19:47:44kurzhaarrockerdiddystar5 have you already _used_ that triggered recording?
19:48:05diddystar5kurzhaarrocker: no, but i looked at the code
19:48:35diddystar5i dont update my builds very often
19:48:42diddystar5usualy once a week
19:49:28kurzhaarrockerI try to update whenever something happened.
19:49:49diddystar5heh i used to do that, but it just got tired of it
19:50:17diddystar5i used to make really cool build with lots of patches and my custom boot logo, but i just got tired of it
19:50:54diddystar5and for the time, im sure lots of people would have liked to try them, they were very good builds
19:51:03diddystar5i should have realesed them
19:51:34kurzhaarrockerI had big trouble sometimes when I developed things and didn't update regularily. If it wasn't for keeping patches up to date I wouldn't update much either.
19:56:28diddystar5i wish windows would use the / instead of \, its easier for me to type with that, and its agrivating when you type the wrong one and cant figure out whats wrong
19:57:20kurzhaarrockerWhatever they use I wish it was the same in both environments.
20:01:10diddystar5ooh man i forgot when i installed windows on my new hd to run win update
20:01:23diddystar5now im getting annoying messages in messenger thing
20:02:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:03:42diddystar5microsoft is dumb
20:03:53diddystar5if they just made it right the first time.....
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20:05:02kurzhaarrockeryou have to make the same mistake many times before you master it.
20:05:55diddystar5who cares about win media player updates.... who gives a SHIT about it?
20:06:10diddystar5i wish i could just remove the bastard
20:07:06diddystar59.9 mb of updates.....
20:07:25diddystar5(that takes a long time to get on 56k!)
20:07:48kurzhaarrockeryou too use an anachronism like that?:)
20:09:54*diddystar5 looks up anachronism in google deskbar
20:10:04diddystar5yes i do
20:10:46diddystar5i need to get a kernel update for my linux
20:10:53diddystar5its 32mb.....
20:11:01diddystar5everything is just to big
20:11:17kurzhaarrockerThings like that I only download when I'm in the office...
20:12:06diddystar5My old school had a T1 line, (about 450-600 kb's) download, and they had a few computer with cd burners
20:12:22diddystar5to bad i dont go to that school anymore....
20:12:40 Join hardeep [0] (1098@
20:12:53diddystar5hey hardeep
20:13:04hardeephappy new year
20:13:14diddystar5hardeep: happy new year!
20:13:17kurzhaarrockerBang Bumm Paff!
20:13:27diddystar5hardeep: want to see my vu meter code with log scale?
20:13:28*kurzhaarrocker launches a rocket
20:14:03diddystar5heh oregon has banned almost all fireworks
20:14:16diddystar5about all you can use are sparklerrs, and ahh sparklers
20:14:27kurzhaarrockerdiddystar5: lucky you: you didn't have to do all the scaling in db.
20:14:32diddystar5cant even use roman candles
20:14:36Laurent_shit, french law's not that easy on reverse engineering
20:14:48hardeepdiddystar5: maybe later?
20:14:59diddystar5hardeep: ok
20:15:01kurzhaarrockerLaurent_ what happened?
20:15:33diddystar5kurzhaarrocker: what do you mean by scaling in dB?
20:15:40Laurent_I am reading the Code of intellectual property in order to know if I can publish what i've found on the gmini
20:15:55kurzhaarrockerdiddystar5 db = logarithmic
20:15:58diddystar5kurzhaarrocker: n/m
20:16:34Laurent_and some conditions must be met first in order to be allowed to disassemble/decrypt the firmware as well as publish it
20:18:28Laurent_some are ok (the goal : interoperability with rockbox firmware, the right to use the firmware : i'm a legitimate user)
20:20:17Laurent_some are a bit restricting : publication of informations is allowed only to people who need it to work on the interoperability, this means that it can't be published on the list, only sent to individual developers working to have the rockbox firmware loaded on the gmini
20:21:41kurzhaarrockerLaurent_: a disclaimer doesn't so here?
20:21:46Laurent_but there are more subtle ones
20:22:34Laurent_The informations obtained (via disassembly) can't be used to design, produce, or commercialize a program which "does something" similar [to the disassembled one]
20:23:24diddystar5Laurent_: go to some small country with a laptop and report your findings :)
20:23:25Laurent_this point is the big problem
20:23:49Laurent_diddystar5: and I won't be able to come back to France before ten years have passed ;)
20:23:53diddystar5just make sure they have no laws on reverse ingineringh
20:24:13Laurent_and no extradition laws ;)
20:24:13diddystar5Laurent_: n/m then :)
20:25:54Laurent_so I guess I need a lawyer there
20:27:36Laurent_to make sure that rockbox would not be considered as "something similar"
20:27:49Laurent_anyone knows one ?
20:28:07Laurent_I'm pretty sure it's ok though
20:28:11 Join midknight2k3 [0] (
20:28:16midknight2k3hi all
20:28:26midknight2k3hardeep: are you there?
20:28:30midknight2k3hey diddystar5
20:28:38Laurent_since rockbox would only work on already sold devices, which does not hurt archos (except for the fucking plugins)
20:28:41midknight2k3packed in here today
20:28:46Laurent_hi midknight2k3
20:28:52midknight2k3hi laurent
20:30:48hardeepmidknight2k3: present
20:31:12midknight2k3:) hardeep, do we have any sort of function to spin down the disk?
20:31:18midknight2k3disk_spindown(); or such?
20:31:37midknight2k3i recall seeing something like that in the source before but never found it again
20:31:41hardeepmidknight2k3: yeah, i think that's the function name
20:31:45hardeepone sec
20:33:17Laurent_that sucks
20:33:43hardeepmidknight2k3: ata_spindown(-1) will force an immediate spindown
20:33:44Laurent_at least what I did is legal, but that point must be made clear first
20:34:06midknight2k3hardeep: thanks!
20:34:53Laurent_and there's also the distinction between interoperability with the hardware and with the software : interoperability with the hardware is ok, but interoperability with the software is not so clear because rockbox does the same than the archos firmware
20:35:08midknight2k3everyone: back in a minute ok
20:35:29 Quit midknight2k3 ()
20:36:15Laurent_well, i guess i'm lucky a friend of my parents knows lots of lawyers at least
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20:40:21Strathhello Laurent_
20:40:27midknight2k3hi Strath
20:40:56Strathhey idiiiiii
20:41:16Strathhrmm.... hose weren't the right key
20:41:25Strathhhhhhey midi
20:41:42midknight2k3i like that
20:41:46Laurent_hi Strath
20:42:14Strathi thn i ran my keyboareds batterrrrrrrrrries dea when i fell asleep whiiil typng
20:42:25hardeepmidnight2k3: actually, a better call would be ata_sleep()
20:42:29midknight2k3go get new batteries
20:42:37midknight2k3ata_sleep it is then
20:42:58Strathok, ok... new batteries...
20:43:00Laurent_anyone has a good pointer on the DMCA ?
20:43:15Laurent_(everyone should have one) ;)
20:43:17midknight2k3they are vampired
20:43:21Strathbesides reading it in it's entirety?
20:43:52Laurent_Strath: what do you mean
20:44:31midknight2k3Will this work in the archos??
20:44:32midknight2k3Form Factor: 2.5" x 1/8H - internal
20:44:34midknight2k3hard drive
20:44:52hardeepwhat's the length?
20:45:02midknight2k3Dimensions (WxDxH): 2.8 in x 3.9 in x 0.4 in
20:45:28Strathwell, whats the prob with the DMCA?
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20:46:14Strath(sorry, whent to change the battiries without having fresh handy
20:46:40Laurent_Strath: huh, no prob, I just wanted to have a look at it, but a google search will be fine ;)
20:46:56Laurent_in order to compare it to french law
20:48:00hardeepmidknight2k3: depends on how they rounded the 0.4 in (H)
20:48:06hardeepit needs to be 9.5mm
20:51:25Strathso Laury... I've been sitting here for three days, it's about time you showup
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20:53:40midknight2k3thx hardeep
20:53:42StrathI got my gmini only a couple days after you
20:54:53Strathhow are your efforts going?
20:55:15midknight2k3hardeep: then this one works. right?
20:57:18Strathis it a common practise to rasterize your prices?
20:57:37Strath(gotta disapper for a few minutes...)
20:57:41midknight2k3strath: sdd
20:59:04kurzhaarrockerI haven't won enough prices yet to rasterize them
21:05:20hardeepmidknight2k3: yeah, that one will work
21:07:24diddystar5bye everyone
21:07:36kurzhaarrockersee you
21:07:44 Quit diddystar5 ("Leaving")
21:09:22Laurent_Strath: oops sorry was writing an email tothe list summing up where I find myself
21:10:33Laurent_Strath: I need lawyer advice before publishing anything and that sucks, moreover the plugin system might prevent rockbox from being legal on the gmini
21:11:24Laurent_but if there's some uncertainty i think i'll take the risk
21:12:40kurzhaarrockerSee you later
21:12:47 Quit kurzhaarrocker ("Trillian (")
21:12:48midknight2k3bye kurzhaarrocker
21:15:35Laurent_why grr ?
21:15:42Laurent_ah ok, because you were a bit late ;)
21:16:10midknight2k3a bit
21:16:14midknight2k3one second too late
21:16:18midknight2k3less than a second
21:16:29Laurent_so that excuses you
21:17:18Laurent_what pisses me off in this law problem, is that publication of informations is restricted even if getting those informations was trivial
21:18:02Laurent_what's the point of forbidding the publications of informations that everybody could find easily by himself ?
21:18:16midknight2k3it's idiotical
21:18:50Laurent_I wonder if going to court would help create some jurisprudence on this point
21:18:54Strathok,, ok i'm back
21:19:52 Quit leapingfrog (Connection timed out)
21:21:00Strathi think the gmini wud make a nice act of civil disobediance
21:21:35Strathunjust laws must be struck down
21:21:58Laurent_no, i'm a firm believer that if law's stupid them it must be fought with legal means
21:22:41Strathok... so you disagree with gandi's methods?
21:23:05Laurent_I agree that unjust laws must be struck down
21:23:37 Join leapingfrog [0] (
21:24:16Strathand how do you expect that to come about when the ones enforcing the unjust laws put the unjust laws on the books?
21:24:52Laurent_I only know that revolutions end in blood baths :)
21:25:33Strathatleast the survivors will be clean :)
21:25:40Laurent_Strath: the law is not unjust, it is somewhat not specific enough, building a jurisprudence around the points where it's not clear is a possible solution
21:25:48Laurent_but that involves going to court
21:26:59Strathwho do you think would triumph? saging old money grubing suits of young enpassioned revolutionaries?/
21:28:06 Quit ely78373 ("—I-n-v-i-s-i-o-n— 2.0 Build 2520")
21:28:20Laurent_neither, but young active citizens using the legal system could do it and indeed do it, see DVD Jon
21:28:52Strathyou are french arn't you?
21:29:10Strathoy oy oy....
21:29:39Laurent_why ?
21:29:40Strathwhy must it be always by the book?!?
21:29:58 Join trackkk [0] (
21:30:09Straththe US/world is in need of a revolution
21:30:11Laurent_because it causes the less pain
21:30:32Strathlong term or short term?
21:30:40Laurent_all of them ;)
21:31:14Strathlittle pain * many years >= big pain * few years
21:31:28Laurent_nobody needs revolution, everybody must take care of evolution, it's because they fail that revolution happen. for the worse
21:32:09Laurent_I guess you would have been happy in the USSR then ;)
21:32:27Strathletting things like to DMCA stand will lead to further injustices
21:32:43Strathevolution is dead...
21:32:49Laurent_Strath: have you ever tried to write your congress representative ?
21:32:57Strathat least as far as humans are concerned
21:33:31Strathjust cause i opose copyright laws?
21:34:12Laurent_yes to explain him you want him to reject the DMCA
21:34:20Laurent_midknight2k3: ?
21:34:22midknight2k3look at the end of tracks name
21:34:24midknight2k3he is evil
21:34:27midknight2k3theres three k's
21:34:33Strathno... i'm just a proponent of restoring copyright to some semblence of sanity
21:35:01Strathmaybe he just likes 311?
21:35:13midknight2k3hes EVILL
21:35:51Laurent_Strath: then writing to your representative to tell him just that is a way to go :)
21:36:10Strathno but since the system is broken, i'm in favor of chucking it and starting over
21:37:03Strathunfortunatly, most of the population are fat ignorant sheep
21:37:31Laurent_the system is broken because people are too lazy just to do the simplest things, such as writing a letter, which gives full impunity to people who abuse it, your country is what you make it
21:37:42 Quit scott666 ("i'll be back...eventually...")
21:37:48Laurent_as is mine :
21:37:52 Join arspy87 [0] (
21:38:06Stratheither way....
21:38:23Strathi refuse to follow unjust laws
21:38:48Straththough i wont go out of my way to break them...
21:39:11Laurent_no problem, then use just ones that say there are representative with which people should talk to to express their desires
21:39:21Laurent_just = "the just"
21:40:24Laurent_before revoluting there a lot of middle choice alternatives that must be tried before, revolution is an extreme that must be used only when everything else has failed, at least that's my point
21:40:32Strathya... but in the meantime i should just abandon my projects?
21:41:00Strathif so, then they've already won
21:41:02Laurent_what are your projects ?
21:41:20Strathi was speaking hypotheticly
21:41:31Laurent_dont speak, act ;)
21:42:15Strath(besides ongoing reverse engineering projects, media protability projects etc )
21:42:53Strathand that is what i'm doing by continuing my projects reguardless of the law
21:43:10Strathactions not words
21:44:02Straththough bush/ashcroft have got to go
21:44:07Laurent_I think that being one sided is a bad thing, you should do both : use legal means to defend your rights, ie your vote, your representatives, support associations such as the EFF and ACLU and continue your projects
21:44:26Strathhey... i donate to EFF
21:44:33arspy87g2g now ttyl
21:44:44Laurent_Strath: so you're not a true revolutionnary
21:44:46Strath(what little i can...)
21:44:59Laurent_not all hope is lost then ;)
21:45:04Strathverbaly, yes... :P
21:45:12 Quit arspy87 ("Trillian (")
21:45:43Strathnah... i just like taking contrary sides to commonly held views :)
21:46:02Laurent_so do I ;)
21:46:28Laurent_expecting the revolution is becoming a more and more commonly held view ;)
21:46:45Strathheh... i knew i saw some similarities in the archives
21:47:26Strathi've read up all the archives since you posted about a week ago
21:47:31Laurent_and ?
21:47:43Laurent_irc archives ?
21:48:06Strathya... well your text
21:48:17Strathctrl-f Laurent_
21:48:27Laurent_ah, yup, I always make the same english mistakes I guess
21:48:50Strathand the mailing list archives
21:49:20Strathso are backing down from your initial brovado?
21:49:45Strathregaurding the reverse engineering of the gmini?
21:50:17Laurent_no, I'm just seeking legal advice before going to court :)
21:50:35midknight2k3laurent: court?!
21:50:46Strath(oh i meant simlarities in our thoughts)
21:51:03Laurent_midknight2k3: I think it can't be avoided, archos probably choosed the plugin models to make it unavoidable
21:52:19Strathoff topic, if i wanted to protect the firmware for a device, what type of protections do you think i should use?
21:53:06Strathand which should I not use?
21:53:07midknight2k3CRC CHECKSUM, AWAY!
21:53:20midknight2k3crc checksum
21:53:49Strathwow, that would be dumb
21:54:07midknight2k3strath: who?
21:54:20Laurent_why would you protect a firmware ? laws protect it already
21:54:24Strathi sure wouldn't want somebody hacking my firmware!!!
21:54:57Strathso you think a simple xor would handle that?
21:55:17midknight2k3NO! CRC CHECKSUM!
21:55:26Laurent_an xor with a key the size of the firmware is unbreakable ;) but any other is crap ;)
21:55:52midknight2k3strath, wait
21:55:58Strathbut for the law to apply, i have to at least make a show of "effective control"
21:56:00midknight2k3you're going to make new firmware but not open source>
21:57:05Strathshush midi
21:57:17Straththat just might work...
21:57:21Laurent_good question that ;)
21:58:03Strathwell... in these digital days, ya gotta watch your ass
21:58:21midknight2k3strath: not open source then? boo
21:59:27Laurent_no, he's trying to have me tell how to decrypt the gmini firmware :)
22:00:03midknight2k3laurent can but strath needs info?
22:00:07midknight2k3ah nm forget me
22:00:15Strathoh, hrm, you mean a key as large as the firmware? or a key being the length of the firmware?
22:00:50Laurent_hrm, let's make it clear : this is not a hint I'm giving you ;)
22:01:25Laurent_a xor key the length of the firmware would be unbreakable, hence the gmini does not use such one or I couldn't have broken it
22:01:30 Quit Strath (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:01:35 Join Strath_ [0] (
22:02:17Strath_stupid dialup
22:02:31 Nick Strath_ is now known as strath (
22:02:40***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:03:04Laurent_if you want to disassemble the gmini firmware, that's simple : get an hexadecimal/ascii editor, you'll get the basic structure
22:03:25strathwell, i see it's a RIFF
22:04:02Laurent_to decrypt the firmware code you'll just need to watch for patterns in the code and a bit of logic, look diagonally
22:05:27Laurent_what do you want to run on the gmini ?
22:05:50 Part pfavr
22:06:25strathpda type stuff
22:06:41Laurent_similar to me
22:06:52Laurent_hey wait
22:06:59Laurent_that's legal
22:07:31Laurent_yes, it's not a "similar" product, sofrench law allows it
22:07:35Laurent_without doubt
22:08:30Laurent_rockbox **might** be illegal since it does the same than the original firmware, but a pda style software would be fully legal since it does not overlap with the original firmware
22:08:45Laurent_(all this in France)
22:09:36strathwhy? are there any other contries laws you are bound by?
22:09:53Laurent_in the USA, I think the DMCA allows full disassembly as for xbox linux
22:10:11strathso i'm fine as well
22:10:14Laurent_i'm only bound by french law and european one
22:11:02Laurent_european law sometimes supercedes local legislations but that's not the case yet in this domain
22:12:16Laurent_you're fine as long as your software does not offer features sold by archos as plugins
22:12:42straththats the intent..
22:13:32Laurent_this makes me think, rockbox might be fine in France on the gmini as long as it does not offer such features neither
22:13:58strathso, i'm not seeing this diagnal pattern of which was spoken
22:14:25Laurent_huh ? use a line width of 16 bytes
22:14:26straththat was my thought as well
22:15:11Laurent_it's visible at the very end but also many other places
22:15:52 Join BC|Code [0] (
22:16:29midknight2k3no dont call me that
22:16:58Laurent_mikki's funny ;)
22:17:37BC|Codethere was a "fine" , "blowing" joke coming up for it too :(
22:17:57Laurent_strath: which firmware are you looking at ? I studied 1.20 only :)
22:17:57 Nick BC|Code is now known as Bluechip (
22:18:08midknight2k3afad bluey
22:19:05strathhrm... line with of 17 looks interesting
22:19:06Laurent_strath: in v1.50 it's also present though not at the end
22:19:16Laurent_yes 17 is *very* interesting
22:19:30Laurent_you'll see vertical lines with it
22:20:35Bluechipkurz been in tonight?
22:20:48midknight2k3was just
22:20:55strath15 minutes break
22:21:06Laurent_strath: which editor are you using btw ?
22:21:53Bluechipcheers mk, and darn! did he say if he would be back?
22:22:01midknight2k312:12:47 | * kurzhaarrocker has quit IRC
22:22:08midknight2k31h 8m ago
22:23:59midknight2k3didnt say
22:24:01midknight2k3i dont think
22:24:21Laurent_hrm, I see another thing that could help not breaching the law
22:24:21Bluechiphey, mk, your code is a BITCH to patch
22:24:22midknight2k3didnt no
22:24:45Laurent_breaking the la
22:24:59Bluechipyou've used M$ format text files
22:25:13midknight2k3oh no
22:25:44BluechipCR/LF pairs on the end of line
22:25:50 Quit trackkk ("Leaving")
22:26:17Laurent_it might be as simple as sending a letter to Archos requesting informations on how to load any kind of software on the gmini
22:26:25midknight2k3laurent: yes
22:26:42midknight2k3bluechip: sorry
22:26:43Laurent_since this gives anyone the right to get those informations by disassembling if Archos refuses to do so
22:27:07Laurent_under french law
22:28:37Laurent_but the plugin issue remains, a conservative judge might consider it enough to declare the whole thing illegal
22:28:51strathi'm wondering what taking one byte, xoring it with the next 16 would acomplish
22:29:00midknight2k3bluechip: are you patching it?
22:29:30Bluechipmk, not to fix the bugs, just to make it work with the sim
22:29:41midknight2k3WHAT BUGS
22:29:57Bluechipbtw - awsome clock font/graphics
22:30:02Laurent_strath: nothing interesting
22:30:08Laurent_strath: under windows ?
22:30:17strathi've bought a registration for it... great tool
22:30:21 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (
22:30:26Bluechipmk, example, can only ever get help once
22:30:27midknight2k3bc: 7 segmet digital was Linus' work
22:30:29midknight2k3hi IDC
22:30:43Bluechiphi dragon
22:30:55straththough i've been using linux on my servers for at least 7 years
22:30:58[IDC]DragonBC: not at work?
22:31:07Bluechip21:31 here
22:31:24[IDC]Dragonan hour later here
22:31:45Bluechipthought i'd sit and have a smoke and a chat before i did any more coding
22:32:13midknight2k3Bluechip: what bugs?
22:32:19strathyay! go smokers!
22:32:21Bluechipfinished the advance stereo seperation screen at last
22:32:26midknight2k3OOH YAYT
22:32:38strathhrm... nothing interesting eh?
22:32:40DBUGEnqueued KICK Bluechip
22:32:40Bluechip<Bluechip> mk, example, can only ever get help once
22:33:20BluechipDragon, do you have any thought on what we might use for the Dynamic Bass in USER mode
22:33:40[IDC]Dragonwhat's USER mode?
22:34:08strathlaur: you have much asm experience?
22:34:21Bluechipwell techie mode is gonna be full access to the registers, hopefully with a realtime graph
22:34:30Laurent_some but not yet with the gmini's cpu
22:34:43[IDC]DragonI don't know your screen
22:35:21strathya... i taught mself m68k and had a course in x86
22:35:27Laurent_strath: I haven't been able to find its machine language yet, I am in contact with samsung and telechips to get it, I need to fill an excel sheet with informations about myself and return them
22:35:43Bluechipdragon: the user would have no interest in full configuration of the MDB, linus suggested centre-freq & strength
22:35:44midknight2k3cool bluechip
22:35:56midknight2k3we can do center freq and stuff?
22:36:01[IDC]DragonLaurent_: you don't know the cpu yet?
22:36:23Laurent_[IDC]Dragon: I know the cpu, but its instruction set is not public
22:36:24strathya... telechips semm pretty closed off :(
22:36:31[IDC]DragonBluechip: I'm not really in that subject
22:36:47Bluechipdragon, okay, thanks for listening :)
22:36:56[IDC]DragonI meean, what core is it?
22:37:10strathso have you discovered anything interesting?
22:37:17Laurent_dragon : it seems to be a calmrisc 16 core
22:37:33[IDC]Dragonnever heared of that
22:37:44strathdrums fingers... :)
22:37:47[IDC]Dragonnot ARM or something?
22:38:05Laurent_ that's what eric linenberg found
22:38:35strathlaur: i've looked at every link you posted, though a saw no gcc referance on the good docter's uni page
22:39:05[IDC]Dragon16 bit? that's worse than what we have
22:39:31Laurent_it embeds a 24 bits DSP
22:39:55Laurent_strath: not on his own page, but on the university one
22:40:33[IDC]Dragonyes, I've seen that it has a DSP part
22:41:08Laurent_to which this ones links :
22:41:26Laurent_that last one talks about gcc
22:41:50Laurent_only the AVxx series seem to have an ARM as CPU
22:41:53strathso, 17 bytes wide... thoughh the significance evades me
22:42:30Laurent_strath: it just means there are zeroes every 17 bytes in the firmware code
22:42:42Laurent_strath: no idea why though
22:43:29Laurent_perhaps is it an artifact of the object code
22:43:44strathso wild goose chase?
22:44:03Laurent_or they did insert one dummy byte every sixteen
22:44:39Laurent_the strings are somewhat cut when decrypted, which would support the last hypothesis
22:45:32[IDC]Dragonit only has USB1.1?
22:45:58strathok, whats next?
22:46:06[IDC]Dragonthe Telechip datasheet said so
22:46:15[IDC]Dragonis there another chip?
22:46:50CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
22:46:50*uski ooh, interesting discussion :]
22:47:27Laurent_which supports usb 2
22:48:46Laurent_there are probably other chips but they are under the battery and I haven't gotten my soldering iron back yet
22:48:57strath"bit of help" please.. :)
22:49:03Laurent_(the battery is soldered to the board)
22:49:33strathwhy don't i just open mine up then... i've already had it since wednesday...
22:50:52Laurent_strath: that's not so easy, you might break it, be extremely careful if you do so
22:51:16Laurent_I bend three pins while doing it
22:51:20strathyou should see my ti-92 :P
22:51:35uskistrath: what dod you do to your poor TI ?
22:51:37strathi know...
22:52:10strathi read your descriptiuon, and do you know what a pain those large images are to a dialup user?
22:52:20strathi'll find a link
22:53:10strathtook wget two days to grab them.. :)
22:54:24straththat last link on the usb chip page might be interesting
22:55:12Laurent_strath: who are you talking to ?
22:55:15midknight2k3are you making your techie mode
22:55:26[IDC]Dragondid you find this already:
22:55:33Bluechipmk, for what?
22:56:09midknight2k3MDB and center width etf
22:56:12Bluechipseperation or MDB
22:56:25midknight2k3i love mdb can you make it lol
22:56:27Bluechipseperation is done, mdb is not even started
22:56:27Laurent_[IDC]Dragon: yup
22:56:28midknight2k3it sounds very nice
22:56:36midknight2k3mdb = lovely sounding
22:56:50Laurent_[IDC]Dragon: it's a commercial compiler available for the smartcard series of the calmrisc
22:57:08strathdamn that pdf is too big
22:57:42strathi'll have to download it later
22:57:57uskistrath: Images of modification i've made to my 92 to free a one meg block of address space for other uses..
22:58:03uski?? what are you doing this lol
22:58:18[IDC]Dragondownload here:
22:58:30Laurent_[IDC]Dragon: I have it already
22:58:32straththat page is from around '97
22:58:52Laurent_[IDC]Dragon: i think it's an error from them, it should not be public ;)
22:59:03[IDC]Dragondoes that give you a disasm?
22:59:07strathi've don't a bit more with is since, but havn't posted
22:59:09[IDC]DragonI think so, too
22:59:15[IDC]Dragonsome deep link
22:59:15Laurent_I don't think so, only an emulator and compiler
22:59:33[IDC]Dragonan emulator is nice
22:59:44strathi've seen those pages
22:59:45[IDC]Dragonshould be able to disassemble as well
22:59:51Laurent_[IDC]Dragon: yes but using it would be illegal
23:00:11strath(google found it for me)
23:00:44Laurent_even if it's an error from them to have put it on a publicly available page, using it without clear permission is illegal
23:01:00uskiLaurent_: im not sure about it
23:01:03[IDC]Dragondoes it say so?
23:01:08uski"if it isnot forbidden, it's allowed"
23:01:15[IDC]DragonIf it's freely avail ?
23:01:53Laurent_uski: no, you can't enter people's home even if it's not written anywhere on the walls that you can't ;)
23:01:58strathhell, even google knows where it is, "if it's linked from google, it's allowed" :P
23:02:06[IDC]Dragona simuloator helped me a lot for my flashing reverse engineering
23:02:27Laurent_sure, i'm not saying it's useless
23:02:36[IDC]Dragonby stepping through the boot ROM
23:02:38uskiLaurent_: im not sure the comparison is good, anyway im not a lawyer so...
23:02:41Laurent_i'm saying I wish to do the right thing ;)
23:02:54[IDC]Dragondo whatever you like
23:03:05strathentering a home is not subject to restriced access, leaving a door wide open negates the prohibition
23:03:25straths/is not/is
23:03:48*strath studies law as a hobby
23:03:59Laurent_[IDC]Dragon: I wish not to give industrials good reasons to incite politicians to pass stricter laws
23:04:20Laurent_strath: I meant, when they are not inside the house ;)
23:05:05strathhow do you know untill you enter?
23:06:19strathwell disasemble the compiler :)
23:06:19Laurent_because the door is locked
23:06:42strath"leaving a door wide open "
23:07:01strathoops... was replying to scrollback buffer :)
23:08:11strathwhat about the code trace in the emu
23:08:12[IDC]Dragonit must be legal, I managed to get there by just following links from the main page!
23:09:49Laurent_that's okay then
23:09:51 Join matsl [0] (
23:10:15Laurent_I didn't try ;) the compiler was of no interest until I had decrypted ;)
23:11:16strathso, to save myself a buttload of time which specific files would be useful?
23:11:34Laurent_strath: for which purpose ?
23:11:55strathemu compile, etc understanding education
23:12:09strathtcc730 specific
23:12:37Laurent_I have no idea, I haven't tried them yet, I just finished decrypting the firmware this morning ;)
23:12:58strathok... well then what about mine
23:13:13Laurent_and it's probably not over yet since as I told you the strings are cut which means there might still be something to do
23:13:18strathcould i get "a bit of help"? :)
23:15:07Laurent_strath: of course, where were we ?
23:16:04strath1 byte pattern
23:16:09strather, 17
23:17:54strathand i asked about applying a "first byte xored with next sixteen" algorithm
23:18:53strathor is it rot13 encoded?
23:19:41uskiif the string seems to be garbled, perhaps there is a small algorithm that works on the lowest weight bits
23:19:59uskiso the characters will be in the "string" range, but will be wrong
23:21:09strathby "cut" i believe that he was refering to an extranious character within the string
23:21:23 Join _Laurent [0] (
23:21:54_LaurentADSL seem to have been shut off
23:22:23uskiarchos lawyers are against you ! ;)
23:22:30straththats better than dialup droping out due to line noise
23:22:45 Nick edx{visited} is now known as edx{code} (
23:22:52_Laurentuski: not yet ! ;)
23:23:00edx{code}[IDC]Dragon: Are you in?
23:23:02uskistrath: i had this problem with i was on dial up
23:23:12uskii rewired my entire phone setup, and i got no hangups after that
23:23:19strath(archos conspiring with telcos :P )
23:24:15edx{code}[IDC]Dragon: about flashing (what else ;)): if I have question marks for the flash information ... how propable is it that I will be able to flash in the next few months... or is it impossible to flash these JukeBoxes?
23:24:31strathmine is disrupted by an electric fencer too near the buried line somewhere between here and the telco's switching
23:24:34uskiedx{code}: impossible
23:24:38uskiyou have to change the flash chip
23:24:43midknight2k3back in a sec all
23:24:45 Quit midknight2k3 ()
23:24:46edx{code}too sad
23:25:00uskiand 1) it is hard to find a new one 2) it is hard to solder it if you are not experienced
23:25:48 Quit Laurent_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
23:26:00edx{code}I have no clue about soldering so I better go forget it ;)
23:26:04edx{code}I was just curious
23:26:08strathbut you can keep soldering practising until you are experianced (then buy a new device to replace melted one) :)
23:26:29uskiedx{code}: you might also try to find a garbled archos with a working cpu board
23:26:29_Laurentdo you still read me ?
23:26:35uski(with the correct flash chip)
23:26:42uskithen you could exchange the cpu boards
23:26:42edx{code}uski: actually, I got one
23:26:44uski_Laurent: yea
23:26:45strathyour duoble just dropped
23:26:47edx{code}uski: Display is not working
23:26:57uskiedx{code}: you're lucky ! then exchange the boards
23:26:58_Laurenthum, forget that one question, it was my old nick disappearing ;)
23:26:59edx{code}uski: I had already flashed it... but I dont want to risk my new one
23:27:28strathok, where were we?
23:28:15_Laurentstrath: my question was : do you see a pattern emerge ?
23:28:29straththe 17byte thing?
23:29:10_Laurentthen you can do the rest by yourself ;)
23:29:21straththe significance evades me though
23:29:29_Laurenta bit of explanation :
23:30:04strathif you please
23:30:29 Quit oxygen77 ("ChatZilla 0.8.31 [Mozilla rv:1.4/7]")
23:30:32_Laurentwhen using a xor key, if there are zeroes in the data that you encrypt, those will reveal the xor key
23:30:44_Laurentbecause a xor 0 is a
23:30:52straththat was my next question
23:31:22strathdue to somethig you said eirlier, which just hit me
23:31:39Bluechipblocks of FF's will reveal the NOT xor key
23:32:24strathbut if its not xor, then what is it? :P
23:32:37 Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection)
23:33:01strathhow stupid....
23:33:44strathnalvrr..... hrm seems to repeat
23:33:44_Laurenteither dumb either helpful ;)
23:33:57_Laurentlet's give them a chance ;)
23:34:10Bluechipyou need to appreciate the legal ramificatons of break ANY encryption to understand why they did not waste time coming up with something complicated
23:35:30_Laurentbc : i'm not sure I understand what you meant, but they might have used an unbreakable encryption
23:35:31strathbut with the dmca, it states "effective"
23:35:41_Laurentbc: without much effort I mean
23:36:29straththough i understand that it's meant in the business legal sence, not techie
23:36:58strath(effectivly, bluechip is an eggplant)
23:37:32_Laurentbc : ok I got what you said
23:37:33strathclarifiying the meaning of a word in the DMCA
23:38:13Bluechip"eggplant" ?? is that a compliment, a criticism, or an observation?
23:38:47_Laurentor a meal ?
23:38:49strathheh, only other active person...
23:39:14strathfirst deragatory object that poped into my head
23:39:37Bluechipahh a criticism
23:39:42Bluechipnice one :)
23:39:50strathonly in jest
23:40:13Bluechipdid you know that the most tasty bit of the egg plant is under the stem because it is still growing?
23:40:30Bluechipalso the seeds can be a little bitter
23:40:33strathno, as a matter of fact, i did not
23:41:17_LaurentBluechip: let me rephrase what you said in order to make sure I understood it well
23:41:24strathdid you know that there is a patch of my lawn that grows really well, a few yards from the doghouse?
23:41:52_LaurentBluechip: you meant that Archos chosed a dumb encryption, because breaking an encryption is illegal under the DMCA ?
23:41:57Bluechiphmmmm, no, thank you :)
23:42:20strathwell, sorta
23:42:25strathnot quite
23:42:49strathunder the dmca, rot13 qualifies as an effective protection
23:43:00Bluechip+1 is sufficient
23:43:38_Laurenthuh ?
23:43:39strathbut thats besides the point
23:43:41_Laurentthat's dumb
23:43:47strathand picking nits
23:43:58strathand just a bit pedantic
23:44:03_Laurentthen machine language is an encryption too that's stupid
23:44:13Bluechipand a waste of time!
23:44:40strathis the "copyrighted material" is the source code
23:45:08Bluechiponly lawyers may answer...
23:45:22strathbut reverse engineering still has exceptions, even from the DMCA
23:45:44strathlawers may answer, but the people will decide
23:45:48Bluechipwe just get on and do it in the UK
23:46:17strathi say just get on, and let time sort it out
23:46:22_Laurentstrath: ah, you're getting better ;) people decide by their votes and letters to their representatives
23:46:23Bluechipbut being on a small island we have less time
23:46:32straththis is whats refered to as the "chilling effect"
23:46:51_LaurentBluechip: do you know the web site for legal texts in the UK ?
23:46:58strath(i was just being vauge laury)
23:47:24BluechipNo, they are copyright material must buy them
23:47:34_Laurentnah, I take it as a sign you're not a lost cause ;)
23:47:36strathwhat are?
23:47:47Bluechipthere are various notas about the last official publication, but it is badly indexed and out of date
23:47:51_Laurentbluechip : are you kidding ?
23:48:06strathblue, you're misleading him
23:48:15Bluechipokay - whatever you say
23:48:18_Laurent for all french laws + jurisprudence
23:48:23_Laurentfor free
23:48:29Bluechipup to date?
23:48:32Bluechipwell indexed?
23:48:49Bluechipcool :) nice one France!
23:48:51_Laurentgo and see by yourself
23:48:54BluechipI trust you
23:49:11straththe text in the documents is public domain, but the arrangment and presentation of it is owned by the contracted preparer
23:49:17_Laurenti am an employee representative at my work, and I use it all the time
23:49:30Bluechipfar a password to the british laws you need to know the right people
23:49:50_Laurentthat's frightening for a democracy
23:50:29uskiBluechip: you mean that, as a British citizen, you cannot read your laws ? nowhere ?
23:50:31Bluechipwhen I was 14 I stopped a bunch of kids picking on this little dude ...he is now our local police sargeant :)
23:50:45Bluechipprobably in the local library
23:50:52Bluechipyou asked "online"
23:51:04strathas the web gets easy enough for even the dullest pencil pusher, the gov docs and becoming more redily availible online
23:51:22_Laurentbc: the article of french law I quoted on the mailing list was taken there
23:51:30 Join c0utta [0] (
23:52:32strathlaury: wanna try your hand at civil disobedience and send over some c code? :P
23:53:21_LaurentBluechip: part of the french law are being translated in english and spanish :
23:53:47Bluechipcool - also bookmarked
23:54:22uskisee you folks
23:54:28strathso the object code is simply XORed with a key, and where zeros naturaly occur in the object code, the value of the key is retrivable?
23:54:39strath(everyone got that?
23:54:49strathlogbot? did you get that?
23:55:03strathok, good
23:55:07 Quit uski ("Fermeture du client")
23:55:08Bluechipnite uski
23:55:23_Laurentstrath: I never said such a thing
23:56:13_Laurentstrath: I told you how zeros reveal the key in XOR encryption and showed you patterns in the firmware code ;)
23:56:50strathno... i was stating a fact wbout the futility of XORing to hide something with a known format
23:57:20_Laurentyes, it's futile, I do agree
23:57:35Bluechipall encryption is crap if you know how to crack it ;)
23:57:40_Laurentxor can be a perfect encryption though
23:57:54strathi though we were just talking about how i could protect some data, and what to avoid
23:58:00Bluechipmake the key longer than the data
23:58:23Bluechipstrath: you want to WRITE some encryption??
23:58:58strathwell, yes, but the amount of overhead for an embeded device would be cost prohibitve

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