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#rockbox log for 2004-01-03

00:00:05_Laurentstrath: not necessarily, even the gmini could use complex algorithms without problems
00:00:36strathno... blue's xor key larger than content
00:00:45_Laurentstrath: he's right !
00:01:04_Laurentas long as the xor key is larger or equal than content, it's unbreakable
00:01:33strathi know it's a true statement, but then you must double the payload size, or halve the content
00:01:58strathblue: no offence intended
00:02:18_Laurentif the key is randomly generated and all bytes in it have the same probability of occurence then the encrypted data is indistinguishable from random data
00:02:23strathinside joke
00:02:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:02:56_Laurentstrath: no, if you generate the key, no need to transport it
00:03:02strathbut... the overhead....
00:03:28strathas long as both parties know the key
00:03:29_Laurentbut then you must protect the generator ;)
00:03:45_Laurenteverything is breakable
00:03:59_Laurentbut in this case it's the generator
00:04:02straththe "random" number generator and seed
00:04:45strathok, i've got to see what my son needs before he destroys the house, a few minutes, tops
00:04:52_Laurentso you can't avoid reverse engineering
00:06:25c0uttahey, bluechip
00:06:33Bluechiphey c0utta
00:06:44c0uttai got most of the rockbox development environment setup.
00:06:45Bluechipall go well?
00:06:53Bluechipwhat's left?
00:06:58c0uttai can't get the simulator to work..
00:07:10Bluechipwhat does or doesn't it do?
00:07:18_Laurent[IDC]Dragon: are you looking at the calmshine software ?
00:07:26Bluechip...that is shouldn't or should?
00:07:33[IDC]Dragonnot really.
00:07:39*_Laurent is freezing : heater is out of order
00:07:43[IDC]DragonI don't have a Gmini
00:07:43c0uttado you use the same source for the simulator
00:08:05*c0utta is boiling - it's 37C
00:08:28c0uttaat 09:30 in the morning
00:08:31*Bluechip goes blue with envy
00:08:31strathso whats your next step laury?
00:08:33_Laurent[IDC]Dragon: ok, I just wanted to avoid duplicating work ;)
00:09:01c0uttaBluechip: at what level do you place the uisimulator folder ?
00:09:30Bluechip /home/rockbox/source/build
00:09:36_Laurentstrath: ok, so you've seen a pattern ?
00:09:59strathie, now that you've got "decrypted" object code, what are you going to do next
00:10:07_Laurentah ok
00:10:08_Laurentsorry ;)
00:10:23strathnevermind, i think i can get the decryption thing from here
00:10:45strathlooking to the furture
00:10:51_Laurentinstall staroffice, open the excel sheet telechips sent me, fill it then return them and expect they will send me all the specs of their CPU
00:11:12strathis that then under NDA?
00:11:17_Laurentand hope I'll be allowed to make them public, because I won't sign an NDA
00:11:33_LaurentI don't know, but if there's one I won't sign it
00:11:48strathgood for you
00:12:08Bluechipsurely ou would be better to sign it - get the info - find the loop-hole ....the expression in the uk is "cutting off your nose to spite your face"
00:12:33strathwhy would that be "better"
00:12:44Bluechipthen you have the information rather than remain ignorant
00:13:10_LaurentBluechip: i'll read it to check if there's a loop hole, but they'd probably have double checked ;)
00:13:23straththough you were saying rather than not having to sign an NDA
00:14:05Bluechip_Laurent: what if it was on your hdd when it went back to pc world to get repaired?
00:14:30_LaurentBluechip: are you working for pc world ? ;)
00:14:37strathok, so you're going to wait for paperrrrrrrrrr shuffling before you do anything else?
00:15:38Bluechipno, but i do fair priced repair work
00:15:57_Laurentstrath: I'm going to continue my work on decryption and see if it's fully decrypted or if there's another pass, then I'll have a look at the commercial compiler/emulator to see if I can get anything out of it
00:16:15strathi find frelance pc tech work to be too taxing
00:16:38_LaurentI think it will be a major industry within 10 years at most
00:16:53_Laurentfixing computers and electronic gear
00:16:55BluechipAh yes, sir, you have the PEBCAK virus!
00:17:01_Laurentbecause of global warming
00:17:21_Laurent(yes, the causality chain is quite long I know) ;) your computer back in the box and return it to the manufacturer with a note explaining that you are quote this precisely ...."too stupid to own a computer" LMAO
00:18:55Bluechipif ice gets smaller as it melts - how will global warming of the ice caps RAISE the water level???
00:19:41straththe volume of ice raised
00:20:01strathor something like that
00:20:23_LaurentBluechip: it's not the floating ice caps whose melting cause the water level to raise, it's greenland's and antarctic's "ground-laid" ones
00:20:40Bluechipcool - I didn;t know that! :)
00:20:46strathok, break time...
00:21:01_Laurentand anyhow water level is not the biggest problem of global warming
00:21:26BluechipYou a vampire too then?
00:21:39c0uttaBluechip: so it's at the same level as build-dir
00:21:50c0uttawhere do you do the building - still in build-dir
00:22:03 Join kurzhaarrocker [0] (
00:22:20c0uttawhere do you run configure - within build-dir too ?
00:22:21Bluechipcd /home/rockbox/source/build ../tools/configure ...make
00:22:42Bluechipthat should be "../tools/configure" "make"
00:22:56Bluechipwhat OS do you use?
00:23:26_Laurentfor the best explanations ever on global warming :
00:24:44Bluechipcheers :)
00:24:47_Laurent(in english, by a french scientist)
00:25:17_Laurentoops, time to sleep
00:25:19BluechipThat's another bunch of penguins evicted :)
00:25:27_Laurentbc :)
00:25:35_Laurentsave the penguins ;)
00:25:37Bluechipnite _Laurent
00:25:47_Laurentc u all
00:25:58 Part _Laurent
00:30:18Bluechipa deer
00:31:18Bluechipwhat is "a fake UCL file"?
00:33:06BluechipI don't have UCLPACK, so I can't make one ....apparenty
00:33:59strathwhats a UCL?
00:34:34 Join midknight2k3 [0] (
00:36:41 Quit [IDC]Dragon ()
00:37:20midknight2k3hi all
00:39:00midknight2k3bluechip: sdf
00:39:56 Quit kurzhaarrocker ("Trillian (")
00:44:44 Join pfavr [0] (
00:47:00 Quit pfavr (Client Quit)
00:49:34 Join diddystar5 [0] (
00:51:40 Join track [0] (
00:51:56 Quit track (Client Quit)
00:52:36 Join track [0] (
00:52:50Bluechipdiddy :)'s donkey?
00:53:20diddystar5Bluechip: huh?
00:53:50Bluechipguess you don't got a nintendo
00:56:20Bluechipthat's what I LOVE about C ...miss ONE character on a line and get 437,001 errors
00:56:40midknight2k3yeah lol!
01:00:42diddystar5Bluechip: i had the original nintendo, and a gameboy
01:00:49diddystar5i know what your talking about
01:01:01Bluechipi own a mint 1st ed donkey kong :)
01:01:24Bluechipahh right, you mislead me with your "huh?"
01:01:40diddystar5well there was no kong
01:02:04diddystar5Bluechip: whats the funniest error you ever had?
01:02:07Bluechipyou've really missed the joke dude, panic not, it was just me being silly
01:02:24Bluechipkeyboard failure F1 to continue
01:02:56diddystar5My funniest error was: Confused by earlier errors, bailing out.
01:03:20diddystar5keyboard failure, press F1 to continue
01:03:24diddystar5thats funny
01:03:25Bluechipi deliberately caused "blo job not valid in this position" <sic>
01:04:01dwihnoSeen any of those swedish developers lately?
01:04:12Bluechipthey've all got hang overs :)
01:05:31diddystar5don't you just love beer?
01:05:44Bluechipprefer crack
01:06:27diddystar5i should go
01:06:43diddystar5cya bluechip
01:06:44BluechipGeezuz coding C on crack ....bwaahahahahah
01:06:47diddystar5and mid
01:06:50 Quit diddystar5 ("Leaving")
01:07:27dwihnoI got a nice patch coming up.
01:08:37 Join mikeholden [0] (
01:08:43Bluechipare you indeed
01:09:44dwihnoNot really
01:10:11 Quit leapingfrog ()
01:10:18dwihnoLet's just say it makes the bitmap LCD based units use more of their potential ;-)
01:10:40Bluechipok "it makes the bitmap LCD based units use more of their potential" :)
01:10:53midknight2k3can i try it
01:11:13trackhi midd
01:11:16 Quit mecraw ("Trillian (")
01:11:33dwihnomidknight2k3: Hm... Well, I got a 2MB recorder AJZ, if you want to test it out.
01:11:52midknight2k3the patch
01:11:57midknight2k3i have fmr
01:11:57trackhi midknight2k3
01:12:03midknight2k3hi track
01:12:26dwihnomidknight2k3: Aah... Well, my work is based on an ancient CVS checkout... I need to make it up to date :-)
01:12:52dwihnoMy first checkout in erhm... 2 months :)
01:13:09Bluechipdo you need anti-biotics?
01:16:01midknight2k3dwinho: if you ever get it updated, please let me know
01:17:41midknight2k3dwinho: what's it about? :)
01:17:48midknight2k3icon ui?
01:17:52 Quit mikeholden ("Leaving")
01:18:21midknight2k3stop that or i will block you
01:19:44midknight2k3dwihno: how about an icon menu or something?
01:20:22 Join diddystar5 [0] (
01:20:30trackwe all love mikeholden
01:20:52Bluechipthis is NOT a dating board dude!
01:21:28trackoh mikeholden, we worship you almighty mikeholden
01:22:59trackmikeholden, you rule the world.........
01:23:06dwihnomidknight2k3: The goal is to replace the old "text style" configuration with icons :-)
01:23:09trackoh mighty mikeholden............
01:23:17dwihnoThe audio configuration is really sweet.
01:23:19midknight2k3CAN I TRY IT
01:23:52dwihnowell, I got some ILLINSTR's, but I Blame Zagor (tm) for those ;)
01:24:37track(mi)dknight2k3 (mi)keholden
01:24:42midknight2k3stop track
01:24:50trackbeen drinking
01:24:53midknight2k3dwinho: does any verdion work?
01:25:06dwihnomidknight2k3: what do you mean?
01:25:13midknight2k3do you have any working version?
01:25:23midknight2k3that can be compiled to fmr?
01:25:30 Quit track ("Leaving")
01:25:36midknight2k3oh well
01:25:38midknight2k3i cant wait :)
01:25:40dwihnoI can cook you an AJZ, if you want to
01:25:53midknight2k3fmr ajz?
01:26:22dwihnocoming right up
01:26:32midknight2k3thanks dwinho
01:26:34midknight2k3i cant wait
01:27:10dwihnoHave in mind, this is a first glance on how it might be.
01:27:38dwihnoI would call it "alpha quality" (which means, it works, but you don't know how well) ;)
01:27:48midknight2k3like my LONGHORN
01:28:07Bluechipdwihno: be interested to see your audio work ...funny, almost finished the same myself :)
01:28:18midknight2k3THANKS DWINHO
01:28:27dwihnoBluechip: You want to check it out?
01:28:42midknight2k3let me try
01:28:44dwihnoWhat hardware do you have Bluechip?
01:28:47midknight2k3trying it now
01:28:51Bluechipdo you have a sim build?
01:29:38dwihnowait a sec.
01:29:43Bluechipsure :)
01:31:12dwihnowhoa. my win32 build won't work no more :)
01:31:19dwihnosorry bluechip :/
01:31:23midknight2k3nice work!
01:31:46Bluechipokay, can you send over a jbr20 version then please?
01:32:10midknight2k3dwinho: nice work, thanks
01:32:11midknight2k3bye all
01:32:16dwihnobye bye
01:32:22 Quit midknight2k3 ()
01:32:54dwihnoBluechip: check it out and tell me if you're doing something similar.
01:33:01Bluechipoh yess :)
01:33:13 Quit diddystar5 ("Leaving")
01:33:41dwihnoBluechip: my work is only initial, perhaps you've come farther.
01:34:00Bluechipim only doing the audio settings
01:35:49BluechipI am immediately impressed!
01:36:25Bluechipmy audio is a TOTALLY different approach
01:36:32dwihnoHow are you doing?
01:36:45Bluechipmay I interject with a relevant question...
01:37:01dwihnoof course.
01:37:07Bluechipdo you know how to make DIFF ignore a sub-directory?
01:37:21dwihnohm. not really :)
01:37:39Bluechipok - i'll work it out - just in case
01:37:43Bluechipmay I comment on your work?
01:37:48dwihnoOf course.
01:38:10Bluechip"Recording Settings" scrolls because is is indented from the left of the screen?
01:38:30dwihnoIt's the margins.
01:38:51Bluechipthere is a setmargins() call :)
01:39:08dwihno... which causes an ILLINSTR right now ;)
01:39:30Bluechiphow where?
01:39:55Bluechipanyways other stuff.
01:40:14Bluechipleft-handed hammer - LOL
01:40:34Bluechipshould recording settings be OFF the record screen?
01:41:46dwihnoI'm using the standard layout.
01:41:52Bluechipsleep screen would look cool with Linus' LCD font from Midknights Clock plugin
01:42:00dwihno... with some extra fiddle ;)
01:42:12dwihnoSo, are there any things you would like to comment?
01:42:33dwihnoThe sound settings work amazingly well considering the bad quality of the current source tree.
01:43:16Bluechipmaybe the playlist icon might look like a bulleted list rather than a text file
01:44:27 Quit edx{code} ()
01:44:35Bluechiplol - tried to access the audio setting while playing IllInstr ...but the play thread is still running - lol
01:46:00Bluechipbut ...this IS the way forward - very slick
01:46:41Bluechipno more annoying scrolly menus
01:56:04c0uttasorry Bluechip, i'm back now
01:56:34c0uttaok, running configure i choose (S)imulated version
01:57:38c0uttawhere should the .rockbox folder be ?
01:57:58c0uttawhoops - i mean archos
01:58:15Bluechipdid you install my winsim patch?
01:58:44c0uttanot yet. this'll be my 1st use of patch!
01:58:58Bluechipthen your answer is "who cares"
01:59:21Bluechiphang on...
01:59:28Bluechipyou could take that the wrong way
01:59:48Bluechipwithout the patch the /archos dir is not supported
02:00 it does not matter if or where you make it
02:00:59c0uttawhere is the best place to put a .pat file ?
02:01:27c0uttab4 patching
02:02:13Bluechipin the source directory
02:02:29Bluechipthen patch -p1 < patchname
02:02:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:02:48Bluechip...well that's how I do all mine anyway
02:04:06c0uttathat's ok. i got 2 hunks failed on clock.c
02:04:18Bluechipdid you read the docs?
02:04:43c0uttathe docs with your patch - yes
02:04:56Bluechipdo you remember the line: "** clock.c is in M$ format ...the patch will fail and needs to be done by hand!"
02:05:30Bluechipfor your purpose, I would just "not worry about it"
02:05:52Bluechipjust don't run the clock plugin
02:06:18c0uttain build-dir i have run a make
02:06:28Bluechipyou MUST rerun CONFIGURE
02:06:43Bluechipyou may have noticed that my patch edited it!
02:06:45c0uttaafter the patch.
02:06:50c0uttagot it
02:07:30c0uttarerun configure - same error
02:07:35c0uttamake[1]: *** No rule to make target `buffer.c', needed by `/home/rockbox/build-d
02:07:36c0uttair/.deps/buffer.d'. Stop.
02:07:58Bluechipno idea what you've done
02:08:29Bluechipyou never told me of this error beofre ....the same a what other piece of information am i missing before I can help effectively?
02:10:02Bluechip1. do youhave a directory called "/home/rockbox/source/apps" ??
02:10:21Bluechipyou may replace the word "source" with any collection of characters of your choosing
02:10:38c0uttai have /home/rockbox/apps
02:11:02c0uttaeasy to change
02:11:25Bluechipthere are files which you must not remove from that dir
02:15:14Bluechipwhy does ls -R *not* list the content of the .deps directory?
02:18:42 Quit MiChAeLoL (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:19:21strathneed -a
02:19:50Bluechipcool - ta :)
02:19:55strathfiles begining with a '.' are not displayed by default
02:20:24Bluechipm.u.s.t l.e.a.r.n. b.a.s.h....
02:20:41Bluechipit's going in slowly :)
02:21:02Bluechipand google "man <unix>" is handy
02:22:56Bluechipdwihno ??
02:31:56Bluechipeverybodies gone - lol
02:52:49strathoy oy
02:53:04Bluechipgoing mad with script files now!
02:54:24*Bluechip finally guesses right
02:55:26strathstupid encryption
02:55:57Bluechipnow i've got a working patch dwihno has disappeared :(
02:59:25strathi characters a repeating string of unknown length from every seventeenth position with thrity two diferent letters before a cycle.... what does that mean?
03:07:38strathwho are alex and roland?
03:07:50Bluechiproland is the dev kit guy
03:08:20strathand vladimir..... sheesh who names there kid vladimir
03:08:42Bluechipsays "strath" lol
03:08:56straththats only my chosen handle
03:09:22stratheither way.... that wasn;t that hard to crack
03:11:13strathheh... the xor key is a bunch of plain text
03:15:38c0uttahey Bluechip: i have got a working environment and can create ajz's
03:15:47c0uttamake works perfectly
03:15:51Bluechipnext a sim :)
03:16:02c0uttai'll run another configure...
03:16:47c0uttaarggh - same problem!
03:16:47Bluechipr u NT or 98?
03:16:59Bluechipwhat problem?
03:17:02c0uttaso nt
03:17:08c0uttamake[1]: *** No rule to make target `buffer.c', needed by `/home/rockbox/build-d
03:17:11c0uttair/.deps/buffer.d'. Stop.
03:17:31c0uttaactually, it's
03:17:39Bluechipyou MUST have THIS directory structure.... ->
03:17:40c0uttamake[1]: *** No rule to make target `buffer.c', needed by `/home/rockbox/source/build-d
03:17:44c0uttair/.deps/buffer.d'. Stop.
03:17:55Bluechipoop - changed the error
03:18:10c0uttai think i'm set up the same as you now..
03:18:13Bluechipi dont understand this!
03:18:44c0uttame meither!
03:18:49Bluechipcan you build a sim BEFORE ANY patches or edits are applied?
03:20:49c0uttahang on - creating a source_test directory to try it out..
03:23:03hardeepc0utta: are you trying to build the win32 simulator?
03:23:45c0uttahardeep: yes
03:24:14hardeepc0utta: strange, when I build it, buffer.c dependencies are not being created
03:24:27hardeepc0utta: what version of "make" are you using?
03:25:28c0uttahardeep: how do i check ? make.exe is dated 12-May-2002 16:59
03:26:10hardeepc0utta: make −−version
03:26:46hardeepyeah, same as mine
03:26:53hardeephave you applied any patches?
03:27:12c0uttaBluechip's patch for win32
03:27:33Bluechiptry without the patch
03:27:35hardeepc0utta: hmmm, maybe try reverting it and just doing a build from latest cvs?
03:28:29c0uttagetting a fresh right now..
03:30:17c0uttawhile that's occuring, can i ask some advice regarding function pointers ?
03:31:42 Quit hardeep ("BitchX: stays crunchy in milk!")
03:32:16c0uttai am working on F2/F3 functionality. at present, many of the functions that will need to be used are statics within settings_menu.c
03:32:25 Join hardeep [0] (1098@
03:32:44c0uttahardeep: for your benefit..
03:32:46c0uttai am working on F2/F3 functionality. at present, many of the functions that will need to be used are statics within settings_menu.c
03:33:18hardeepc0utta: okay
03:33:44c0uttain my testing, i am removing "static" from the function. an example is "shuffle"
03:34:06Bluechipyou might find plugin.c|h useful
03:42:59 Join arspy87 [0] (
03:43:28arspy87if(!PLUGIN_OK){ printf("Yo, Bluechip!!"); }
03:43:38 Quit adi|home (Connection timed out)
03:43:52Bluechip<look no output>
03:44:04arspy87finished the audio code?
03:44:29Bluechipthe MDB still needs doing but there are some aesthetic issues to consider
03:44:34Bluechipthe rest is done
03:45:00Bluechipthe only graph in the docs leaves a lot to the imagination
03:45:04Bluechip...possibly too much
03:45:55Bluechipas for suggested options we can pick from this list:
03:46:11Bluechip1) off 2) cheap headphones
03:47:35c0uttai'm closer than i've ever been...
03:48:01c0uttai've realised i need to get rockbox-devel from cvs
03:49:09Bluechip<shrugs> I just use the daily tarballs
03:52:05Bluechipso - wanna check it out spy
03:54:32arspy87a .pat file eh
03:54:53Bluechiptook me long enough to write a script to make em
03:55:26arspy87arg its not transferring
03:55:33arspy87bad trillian
03:55:50Bluechipaim has good file xfr
03:56:07arspy87have AIM?
03:56:22Bluechiptrillian :)
03:56:33arspy87:) screen name = ?
04:01:18 Quit methangas (" HydraIRC -> <- Nine out of ten l33t h4x0rz prefer it")
04:02:27 Quit arspy87 ("Trillian (")
04:02:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:05:01 Join arspy87 [0] (
04:06:46 Quit AciD ("q2 > *")
04:15:28 Join adi|home [0] (~adi|
04:32:18c0uttai have a working simulator!
04:32:32c0uttai have applied your patch Bluechip
04:32:49Bluechipcool - still work with my patch in place?
04:33:38c0uttayep. the problem was i hadn't done a full rockbox-devel
04:34:23Bluechipso what next?
04:34:30Bluechipso..... what next?
04:34:48c0uttawhat's next ?
04:34:52c0uttaf2/f3 here i come
04:35:59c0uttaam i able to patch changes from cvs to my copy of the source ?
04:36:23Bluechipnever worked out cvs :(
04:38:02c0uttaso you work on something and then patch it manually to the current cvs ?
04:38:15 Quit hardeep ("BitchX: a new fragrance for men, by Calvin Klein")
04:39:05c0uttai looked at plugin.c/h
04:39:23c0uttaseems that all those functions in the struct aren't static
04:40:22Bluechipno - you cannot point to a static function
04:40:24Bluechipby definitions
04:40:27Bluechipby definition
04:40:42Bluechipstatic means "only in this file" or "only in this procedure"
04:41:09c0uttayes, that's my understanding too
04:41:34c0uttaby removing "static" you're essentially making the functions global
04:41:47c0uttadoes this increase stack usage ?
04:41:48Bluechipyou ALLOW them to be accessed from outside their own file
04:42:02Bluechipnot in my expereince
04:44:31 Quit [GoE]BENtheTEN (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
04:44:47 Nick c0utta is now known as c0utta{lunch} (
05:00:32Exionheh... one of the old beta firmwares to jbmm has a linux loader buildin
05:00:42Exionguess archos has been playing with a linux port
05:01:54Exionseems like it's looking for VMLINUZ on the hd when doing update.
05:02:42Bluechipa way in?
05:02:59ExionDCB "VMLINUZ",0 ;
05:02:59ExionDCB "Kernel found, loading...",0
05:03:35arspy87g2g everyone
05:03:45Exionyou need to port linux anyway... or at least modify dsplinux
05:03:53 Quit arspy87 ("Trillian (")
05:03:55Exionso it doesnt help any
05:04:23Bluechipbut the chances are that it already exists somewhere
05:04:34Exionprobaly only inside archos lab :)
05:04:50Bluechipit's never WHAT you know ;)
05:08:29 Quit adi|home (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
05:09:44 Join kurzhaarrocker [0] (
05:10:02Bluechiphi kurz
05:11:03kurzhaarrockerI assume thats the sound setting dialog?
05:11:10Bluechipall but mdb, yes
05:11:25kurzhaarrockerI'm thrilled :D
05:11:28Bluechiptrying to find a performance graph of mdb
05:11:58Bluechippg 46 of the pdf is mighty insufficient
05:14:47Bluechipxfr is not happening
05:16:43kurzhaarrockerstrange. It should though.
05:17:31Bluechipany alternate ideas? ?
05:21:44kurzhaarrockerThe dcc is strange. It gave me a dialog to save the file but it didn't get filled. It made a 0 bytes file though.
05:24:31kurzhaarrockerI'm going offline for now. See you.
05:25:03 Quit kurzhaarrocker ("Trillian (")
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05:59:02icy223hey can someone please help me for a sec...
05:59:18Bluechipwhat you want
05:59:46icy223does the cinema to go thing from archos have rockbox firmware?
06:00:36Bluechipnever heard of it - but rockbox works on Archos Jukebox/recorder/player/fm/recorder v2 and a couple of Neo units
06:00:37icy223oh...can rockbox be ported to it?
06:00:46Bluechipdo you have a dev kit for it?
06:00:54dwihnonot without an assload of work, I'd guess.
06:01:02icy223im just in the market for an all in one device
06:01:09Bluechipno development kit development
06:01:30icy223is there a device with the features of rockbox and ipod in it?
06:01:39icy223i.e. games and more
06:01:40Bluechipare you any good at reverse engineering?
06:02:00dwihnoThe ipod has games?
06:02:00Bluechipthen but a recorder v1
06:02:08Bluechipapparently so, yes
06:02:13icy223my 3g just died though
06:02:18dwihnoWell... You can't replace the ipod battery ;)
06:02:39Bluechipor recorder v2
06:02:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:02:53dwihnothat's really really bad.
06:03:08dwihnoI'd like a newer model with FM as well
06:03:20icy223is a av380 worth it?
06:03:22Bluechipfm = irreplaceable battery
06:10:56 Part icy223
06:12:26scott666and the FM reception is generally too horrible to be worth it
06:15:21Bluechipshame - can you not add an ariel
06:16:08Bluechiptap a bit of wire off the headphone earth tie it eound your throat?
06:25:50Bluechipnite all
06:26:04 Part Bluechip
06:37:36 Quit scott666 ("i'll be back...eventually...")
07:05:01 Join trey [0] (
07:05:33treyhey guys, i'm having some problems with my archos fm recorder.
07:11:11 Nick c0utta{lunch} is now known as c0utta (
07:11:20c0uttawhat's up trey ?
07:11:34treyeverytime i try to power it off, it goes through the shut down, but once that is done, it reboots and starts back up. any ideas why it would do that?
07:12:33c0uttahmmm. i don't have an fm, but archos units are reknowned for having bad soldering
07:13:06c0uttamy recorder did the same thing until i opened it up and resoldered battery connections
07:13:24c0uttai assume it's doing in rockbox and the standard archos firmware ?
07:15:25treyknow of anywhere where i could get some pictures of what i need to look for when resoldering?
07:15:55c0uttaall the pictures i've seen are for the recorder. since the fm has an internal battery i've never seen any
07:17:14treyhm. i was in this chat awhile back and told my problem to someone and they sent me a different build with some sort of patch to fix an alarm clock glitch or something to that effect, i think.
07:18:19c0uttadid it fix the issue ?
07:18:48treyfor some time, it did.
07:26:38c0uttado you remember who gave it to you ?
07:29:31treysomeone with a new baby or one that had just had a birthday, maybe?
07:29:50c0uttahmm. i searched the irc logs for "trey" but couldn't find anything.
07:29:59c0uttais trey always your nick ?
07:30:25treynope. but i can't remember what it might've been.
07:30:28treygirlsaremean, maybe?
07:44:21c0uttanot found either. sorry mate, i've gotta go
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10:04:37straththere.... aos unpacker works
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11:01:48 Join LinusN [200] (
11:02:10strathhey linus
11:02:46strath i got my .aos unpacker working
11:03:42LinusNsaw that, great work
11:04:37strathhow'd you see that?
11:04:45LinusNin the IRC log
11:05:26LinusNbtw, Vladmir ir Vladimir Pantelic, a developer for Archos
11:06:11straththink there'd be a problem releasing an util that displays info about a file as long as it doesn't touch the encryption?
11:07:03LinusNi'm not a lawyer, but i think so
11:07:05strathi've seen your name around a lot.. you like did/do a bunch of work on rockbox and maintain the site?
11:08:13LinusNi and björn started the project
11:09:23strathso what do you think of this "legal mess" the others fear?
11:10:08LinusNi understand their fear, but I don't think Archos has a case, not in Sweden anyway
11:10:38LinusNi'll have to go away a few minutes, brb
11:10:40strathbtw, there are at least four people who have extracted the gmini/av3xx firmware
11:10:56straththats fine
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11:13:57strathi feel that releasing a product which has all outward signs of having a feature and turn extorting money out of the people who bought it is just not quite right
11:19:32LinusNyou could compare it to selling a computer without including each and every program ever written for it
11:19:48LinusNnot a very good analogy, but anyway
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11:21:46strathhow about a graphing calculator that can't graph?
11:22:18LinusNbut the gmini can play mp3's can't it?
11:22:30LinusNand i believe they sell it as an mp3 player
11:22:54strathi'm tired...
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11:24:22strathbut it doesn't change the fact that until i got it home, i didn't know you had to purchace the recorder pligin
11:26:12LinusNi think they are pretty clear about that (at least on the current webpage)
11:26:29LinusNstill, i agree that selling plugins that enable already existing hardware stinks
11:26:34stratheverything i've seen reguarding the product, llooks like it was meant to be a standard feature, and that at the last minue it was ripped out/disabled and a tiny footnote added to the documentation
11:28:14stratheither way, i bought the hardware, i'm going to do with it what i damn well please, archos be dambed
11:32:37LinusNnot at all
11:33:17*LinusN goes to put another log on the fire (cold in here)
11:33:42strathi think i'm gonna head to bed...
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11:50:25Strathquick point about your computer analigy
11:51:23Strathit'd be like selling a computer that has a DVD burnner, and then charging for the burning software
11:51:38Strathi'll rread a reply in the logs
11:51:44Strathnight night
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11:58:47Zagorhi guys
11:59:33 Nick c0utta is now known as c0utta{tv} (
12:00:13LinusNback from the dead, zagor?
12:00:20Zagoralmost :-)
12:00:38LinusNoh, still hung over since new year, eh?
12:00:44Zagoronly a few thousand mails to wade through
12:01:13*LinusN goes to put another log on the fire (cold in Sweden)
12:01:34Zagori just spotted the first skater passing my window on the canal
12:02:56***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:17:31LinusNc0utta{tv}: now i know what's wrong with your id3 tags
12:17:49LinusNthey are not corrupt, it is a bug in rockbox
12:18:01LinusNor rather, a very unclear id3 specification
12:18:13LinusNwill fix that asap
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12:47:59c0uttano worries linus - i have found some more mp3's with the same issues
12:48:29c0uttaseems strange that you guys are cold
12:48:54c0uttait's 22:20 and still 35C where I live
12:51:02[IDC]Dragoncold here, too
12:51:09c0uttai have started work on the F2/F3 patch. I have read the document prepared by you and Daniel
12:51:10[IDC]Dragon'morning guys!
12:52:52c0uttai agree with 90% of NEWKEYS. you may be crucified for removing the "quick screens"
12:53:58[IDC]DragonI have a more clear picture about what we could do for the mp3 source/sink split, if you'd like to discuss.
12:54:48LinusNc0utta: and the 10% you disagree with?
12:55:03LinusN[IDC]Dragon: i read the irc logs, anything you want to add?
12:55:18[IDC]Dragonah, OK.
12:55:27[IDC]Dragonmy talk with phil yesterday?
12:55:48c0uttamainly removal of quickscreens
12:56:00c0uttai understand your logic tho
12:56:56LinusNc0utta: the main thing is that the quick screens are so limited
12:57:17LinusNthey are hard to translate, because of the limited space, and there can only be three options
12:57:54LinusN[IDC]Dragon: yes
12:58:08c0uttano problem
12:58:29[IDC]DragonMy opinion now is to make the sink pretty dumb, more or less an "encapsulation" (forgive me) of the DMA
12:58:33LinusN[IDC]Dragon: you must know that the track change detection is based on buffer positions
12:58:47LinusN[IDC]Dragon: i agree
12:58:54[IDC]DragonI think all that can stay
12:58:55LinusNof the dma?
12:59:08LinusNyes of course, silly me
12:59:24[IDC]Dragoninstead of mpeg.c fiddling with the transfer,
12:59:37LinusNand the source takes care of the bitswap etc?
12:59:44[IDC]Dragonit would "wrap" tha payload pointer/size/whatever
13:00:01[IDC]Dragoninto a descriptor, to be passed to the sink.
13:00:25[IDC]DragonThe source would have to bitswap, yes.
13:00:33LinusNhow would rewind work then?
13:00:43[IDC]DragonI think this suits the use cases best.
13:00:54[IDC]Dragonhow does it work now?
13:01:23LinusNit backs the read pointer, and restarts the dma if the data is already ready in memory
13:01:34LinusNor rereads the data if not
13:01:49[IDC]Dragonfine, coudn't that stay as well?
13:02:21LinusNit's just that the source needs to handle that, if you split it up in several descriptors
13:03:07[IDC]Dragonview a descriptor as what you did before to pass 8K of data to the DMA
13:04:03LinusNso the sink could just request to get some old data from the source?
13:04:26[IDC]Dragonthe sink is dumb, it doesn't request.
13:04:44[IDC]Dragonthe source handles the seeking, it's specific to it.
13:05:00LinusNi can buy that
13:05:17[IDC]Dragonfor how much? ;)
13:06:11[IDC]Dragonso we'd have a "sink interface" that receives data descriptors, and has functions for the setup.
13:06:37[IDC]DragonThis can then be used from elsewhere to play from memory
13:06:43LinusNsounds reasonable
13:07:11LinusNso how does the need-more-data mechanism work?
13:07:29LinusNi.e low water
13:07:32[IDC]Dragonthe descriptor contains a function pointer
13:07:46[IDC]Dragonto be called when it is used up
13:08:11LinusNbut it will need to call it long before it's used up
13:08:31[IDC]Dragonthis function probably executes in IRQ context, and has to provide the next right away.
13:08:50[IDC]Dragonthis is just for switching buffers.
13:09:13[IDC]DragonThe higher-level functionality is again up to the source.
13:09:14LinusNah, dma chunks
13:09:54[IDC]DragonIt is a source-specific problem that it reads from disk, which takes long to spinup, etc.
13:10:13[IDC]Dragonif you play from mem, you don't have that constraint.
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13:11:41LinusNi understand
13:11:51[IDC]Dragoncan DMA transfers be interruped, currently?
13:12:13[IDC]Dragonwhen and why?
13:12:17LinusNthe dma is a slave to the serial controlled
13:13:01LinusNmpeg_pause() for example
13:13:18[IDC]DragonI meant, do we always play a full DMA chunk, or is that intercepted sometimes?
13:13:34[IDC]Dragon(thinking about a later possible side channel)
13:13:36LinusNpausing the mpeg stream is done by disabling the dma controller
13:13:54LinusNeven if in the middle of a dma chunk
13:13:54[IDC]Dragonso tha MAS just starves
13:14:09LinusNthe dma continues where it left off when reenabled
13:14:45[IDC]Dragondo recorders need that bitswappin business, or could they use the parallel IF?
13:15:06LinusNthis, combined with a swap-aware mem_find_next_frame() could give us the much craved-for beep
13:15:26LinusNif recorders could use the parallel port, we would have done it
13:15:34[IDC]Dragonbeep, haha
13:15:55[IDC]DragonI thought maybe it's still in to have common code
13:16:25LinusNnah, too much to gain from parallel interface so sacrifice it for common code
13:17:11[IDC]Dragonwell, we can't use DMA for the parallel
13:17:34[IDC]Dragonso that could have been another reason, well, forget it.
13:18:24[IDC]Dragonwhat kind of setup does the MAS require, specific to the stream?
13:18:41LinusNi'd love to use the dma for the recording, but the hardware design doesn't permit it
13:19:33LinusNspecific to the particular stream? none
13:19:58[IDC]Dragonso the sample rate, mono/stereo, etc. all can change on the fly?
13:20:24[IDC]Dragonso we could really inject arbitrary data
13:20:27LinusNbut i don't know if there is audible glitches when you do
13:20:48LinusNi can imagine that there could be some
13:21:11[IDC]Dragonany "purge"command?
13:21:17LinusNin the mas?
13:21:26[IDC]Dragonagainst bit reservoir or such
13:21:30LinusNthe mas buffer is only 30 bytes or so
13:21:49LinusNthe mas *dma* buffer that is
13:21:54[IDC]DragonNo, I mean to help it across discontinuity.
13:22:06LinusNso i assume that it only caches a single frame
13:22:44LinusNjudging from the mas DEMAND activity, it operates on single frames
13:22:57LinusNso there is very little read-ahead
13:23:18[IDC]DragonI've seen somewhere in the data sheet that there are two 2K buffer which are uses in an alternating fashion
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13:24:45[IDC]Dragonhow do we resume playback on power-up?
13:24:59[IDC]DragonI gues not the whole buffer is read beforehand.
13:26:19[IDC]Dragon(Excuse me asking questions which the code could answer)
13:26:32LinusNit is done in the same way as when normally starting playback
13:26:45[IDC]Dragonwhich is?
13:26:50LinusNexcept that is does an additional seek into the file
13:27:19LinusNvoid mpeg_play(int offset)
13:28:21LinusNit gets the next file from the playlist and plays it from the specified offset
13:29:13[IDC]Dragonah, found it:
13:29:27[IDC]Dragonit reads small chunks while unter the low watermark
13:29:42[IDC]Dragonabove that, it can be the whole buffer
13:30:00LinusNto speed up the start of playback
13:30:12[IDC]Dragonthat's what I meant
13:30:51LinusNi thought you meant the resume mechanism, since you said power-up
13:31:22[IDC]DragonI wasn't aware rhat it's the same as normal play start
13:32:56[IDC]DragonOK, how do we proceed? I create a file "mp3_sink.c" or so and move the DMA and setup code there?
13:33:23[IDC]Dragon(not commiting anything, don't worry)
13:34:55LinusNthat would be ok, although i would have called it mp3_output.c
13:35:07[IDC]Dragonas you wish.
13:35:15LinusNor mp3_playback.c
13:35:18LinusNor whatever
13:35:35[IDC]Dragonjust name your favourite
13:36:00[IDC]Dragonvery well.
13:36:17LinusNi hope you don't mind that my name stays in the copyright header
13:36:39[IDC]Dragoncertainly not (minding)
13:38:26[IDC]DragonI change the (c) to 2004
13:41:07c0uttalinus, to do the f2/f3 functionality i believe we need to define action codes for nearly every function within rockbox
13:42:30c0uttathis will also move us towards a more "action" based structure, as opposed to the current "button" structure
13:43:04c0uttai'd eventually hope to be able to redefine nearly every action in rockbox, dependant upon the context (WPD, Tree, Recording, etc)
13:43:04[IDC]Dragonyes, seperate gui code and functionality.
13:43:26c0utta[IDC]Dragon: exactly
13:44:11LinusNc0utta: for customizing the gui
13:44:19LinusNwe would probably have to do that yes
13:45:02LinusNc0utta: however, the NEWKEYS spec only customizes the f2 key
13:46:18c0uttaand leaving f3 to be context based ?
13:46:41c0uttai think it's possible to have f3 customised too.
13:46:46LinusNthat can of course be changed, but i'm not sure i want everything to be customizable
13:47:44c0uttapersonally, i would only want my context menu to contain items i'm interested in.
13:47:58c0uttafor example, i would never rename a file in tree view
13:48:06c0uttawhy have it on the menu ?
13:48:07LinusNc0utta: and when there is a new feature?
13:48:29LinusNthen your customized menu doesn't have it
13:48:53c0uttathis is what i'm grappling with!
13:49:11LinusNi want f3 to include all possible options, and let the user design the f2 menu with their own stuff
13:49:33c0uttaso f3 would still be "hardcoded" if you like
13:50:37c0uttaa standard handler for f3 would be required for new features to use
13:51:04LinusNi'm sure we can find a good way of doing this
13:51:30LinusNanywai, i have to go now
13:51:45LinusNi hope to be able to drop by later this evening
13:51:52LinusNuntil then,
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14:43:48kurzhaarrockerZagor is back!
14:44:01_Laurentwho is Zagor ?
14:44:31kurzhaarrockerThe one. The one who is back. :)
14:46:43[IDC]DragonThe one who is not listening.
14:47:15kurzhaarrockerMaybe it's a good sign. If he's not listening he might be moving things on...
14:47:46[IDC]DragonYes, his email.
14:48:04_Laurenthuh ?
14:48:20_Laurentnot listening to what ?
14:48:42[IDC]DragonUs, the unworthy.
14:49:02_Laurentyou mean you the unworthy ;)
14:52:08kurzhaarrocker_Laurent: if you ever want your code to be committed there's no way around the stern code police which Zagor is the most feared representative of.
14:52:26_Laurentthere's always a way ;)
14:52:36_Laurenteven if it's called "forking" ;)
14:52:59kurzhaarrockeryes, that's true, you could commit your sources to another repository.
14:53:04_Laurentwhich I don't intend to do, that was just a joke ;)
14:53:28_Laurentok, that's the equivalent of linus for Linux
14:56:05kurzhaarrockerSeems we're running out of space for config params in that special hd area. Weren't there discussions about moving that data to a real config file?
15:01:14_Laurentgood news, the calmshine package contains a whole development environment : compiler, assembler, linker, debugger (c&asm), simulator/emulator
15:01:31kurzhaarrockerFor the gmini?
15:01:38_Laurentfor its cpu
15:03:09[IDC]Dragonyou need something for the DSP as well
15:03:18[IDC]Dragonany idea what core that is?
15:03:31_Laurentthe DSP ?
15:03:46_Laurentno, I found nothing on Samsung's site about it
15:04:46_Laurentgreat, the debugger shows assembly too, so there's hope to learn the assembly thanks to it and produce an appopriate gcc version
15:05:06_Laurent(note that I'm reading the doc, not using the software)
15:07:42_Laurentdsp seems to be a mac2424 if this says you anything
15:08:47[IDC]Dragonno, MAC means just multiply accumulate
15:08:59[IDC]Dragonand probably 24*24 bit
15:09:13_Laurentit's also as they call the mcu coprocessor, they state it's the dsp in the docs
15:09:51_Laurenthum, you're right
15:11:12_Laurentthey insist on saying MAC2424 engine
15:11:44_Laurent"mac 2424 coprocessor, MAC 24 engine, 24x24 multiplier"
15:11:49_Laurentnot clear
15:14:13_Laurentand that pdf is for the calmrisc 8
15:21:05kurzhaarrockerError reading from server 0
15:21:05kurzhaarrockerDoes that mean something to anybody?
15:21:33*_Laurent is useless for that one
15:22:33kurzhaarrockerBtw: is there a way for non-anonymous read only cvs access?
15:22:57[IDC]Dragonnot that I know of
15:24:04kurzhaarrockerDoes somebody know by heart whethe there is a restriction of maximum users that may access anonymous cvs simultaniously?
15:24:40kurzhaarrockerNow I get the same error, but with error no -1
15:25:39c0uttakeep trying kurzhaarrocker
15:25:49c0uttai was getting it many times today
15:25:57c0uttathen suddenly it would work
15:26:36kurzhaarrocker:( During the last day I had the hope that the anonymous cvs situation had improved.
15:29:23c0uttahas anyone used bluechip's simulator patch ?
15:29:52kurzhaarrockerlast time I tried it just had been destroyed by Linus prerecording
15:31:41c0uttai'm trying to get access to the .rockbox folder via the simulator
15:31:47c0uttadoesn't seem to work
15:32:36kurzhaarrockerwithout the patch of bluechips patch?
15:33:30c0uttai've only used after the patch
15:33:41c0uttahe convinced me to use the simulator
15:33:59kurzhaarrockerI wish I could use it for debugging.
15:34:31c0uttai just use debugf - that's enough debugging for me
15:35:11kurzhaarrockerFor that I use splash :)
15:35:51kurzhaarrockerI tried to use gdb but it opens a new window for each line that is sent to stdout.
15:35:59kurzhaarrocker-> unusable.
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16:18:22kurzhaarrockerbefore I try it: what does atoi do if I pass it a string with trailing garbage eg "-23db"?
16:22:45[IDC]Dragondon't try, read the literature if it's defined
16:23:06[IDC]Dragonelse you rely on implementation specific behaviour
16:23:16kurzhaarrockerman atoi says it works with trailing garbage
16:23:31[IDC]Dragonthen it should
16:23:47_Laurentwell, must go
16:23:50_Laurentsee you all
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16:46:24kurzhaarrockerDoes anybody know how rockbox decides after usb disconnect that the ajbrec.ajz is new?
16:53:12 Quit leapingfrog ()
16:55:00kurzhaarrockerdarn! you can't store an (signed char)-1 in the config!
17:04:17[IDC]Dragonby the size of the ajbrec.ajz file (sorry if the question is old)
17:04:24[IDC]Dragonjust got back
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17:06:15kurzhaarrockerok. That explains why it always recognize it.
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19:52:43EnsilZahHullo. =o
19:53:14EnsilZahIs anyone alive?
19:54:17 Join pfavr [0] (
19:55:32 Quit EnsilZah (Client Quit)
20:03:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:09:29 Quit Bluechip ("Trillian (")
20:41:09 Join Zagor_ [0] (
20:54:02 Part pfavr
20:54:44 Part scott666
20:58:18 Quit Zagor (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:13:51 Join hardeep [0] (1098@
21:25:21 Join Strath [0] (
21:27:50 Nick Zagor_ is now known as Zagor (
21:29:35 Join kurzhaarrocker [0] (
21:53:44 Join Dogger [0] (
21:53:54Strathhey dogger
21:53:59Doggerhey :)
21:55:23Strathgot my unpacker working, though i'm a bit confused by the seamingly truncated nature of the 1.2 and 1.0-1.2 preloader
21:56:47Strathaos file unpacker
21:59:18Strathyou are the famous Dogger, are you not?
21:59:28Doggerworld famous ;)
21:59:47Strathheh, but of course
22:00:00Doggerhow you mean truncated
22:00:34Strathdo you think alex roland and vladimir would aprove of my work?
22:01:10Doggerthey write open source linux stuff
22:01:13Doggerso I'm sure they would
22:02:13 Join Strath_ [0] (
22:02:13 Quit Strath (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:02:42Strath_well, acording to the the ajz format, the compressed size seems off
22:02:56Doggerthen you need to fix ur packer
22:03:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:03:44Strath_these are the files off the product page
22:04:15 Nick Strath_ is now known as Strath (
22:05:18Strathwhich is what i'm thinking happend, because the 1.5 file come through fine
22:05:53Doggerwhich file doesnt work?
22:09:42Strathpreloader and 1.2
22:10:01Doggertell me a file
22:10:08Doggertell me a product
22:10:46Doggerah ok...
22:10:53Doggeryou took it out of the RIFF ok?
22:11:06StrathFirmwareGmini100_v150.aos comes out fine, even checksum is correct
22:11:36Doggerhmmm I'll take a look into it... I've been focusing on jbmm and av300 really so far
22:12:00Strathok.. that'll work
22:13:47Strathdoes the av300 use the same cpu/dsp?
22:13:54Strathas the gmini?
22:14:08Doggerav300 is a tms320dsc25
22:14:11Doggerarm7 core
22:14:14Strathdidn't think so
22:14:21Doggergmini is something completely different
22:14:28Doggerthink its a phillips or something
22:14:33Strathya, tcc30
22:15:07Strathlaurent and I have some stuff that may be useful in developing for it
22:15:24Strathwe're still evaluating it though
22:15:31 Quit kurzhaarrocker (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:16:05Strather... tcc730
22:16:24DoggerI have just snarfed the av300 boot ROM ;)
22:16:36Doggersector 1 on the flash :)
22:16:40DoggerI rule
22:17:03Doggerso is the gmini cool hardware?
22:17:11Doggerlots of legal problems tho
22:17:18Doggersince they *sell* firmware addons
22:17:27Doggersorry *TRY* to sell
22:17:35Strathdoesn't really bother me
22:17:47Doggeryou bought the hardware,
22:17:52Doggerits yours to do with what you want
22:18:05Doggernot like ur renting it from them is it
22:18:15Strathit seems nice, i've only had mine a short time, and have managed to leave the cover on so far
22:18:29Doggerlol cool
22:18:34DoggerI've had 3 av300s now
22:18:39DoggerI took the first 2 to bits
22:18:44Doggerhavent touched the 3rd
22:18:53Strathya must be loaded... :)
22:18:59DoggerI wish
22:19:09Doggerever been to frys electronics?
22:19:16Dogger30 day no quible return policy?
22:19:26Strathum, wow
22:19:37Dogger2nd one was faulty tho
22:19:41Doggerso I had to return to archos
22:19:45Doggerthey sent me the 3rd
22:20:02Strathso you could bring in a baggy of little bits and return/exchange it?
22:20:15Doggerlol prolly
22:20:23Doggeror just return the av300 without harddrive
22:20:27Doggerthey didnt even test mine
22:20:39Dogger(it still worked fine - I wanted to upgrade to 340)
22:21:42Strathi had a 6000 for a 18 months, exchanged it for a gmini, first was dead out of the box, second seems fine
22:22:08Doggercool :)
22:22:34Strathi'm not sure if i would have returned the 6000 had i know about rockbox
22:23:37Doggerrockbox is very cool
22:23:45Doggerbut I'm looking at bigger stuff with av300
22:23:46Straththough the hardware seems nicer and we'll get thing going on it soon enough
22:23:51DoggerI want to put MAME on it
22:23:54Doggerand really linux
22:24:11Doggerand support for compact flash wireless cards,
22:24:15Doggeretc etc
22:24:16Strath(and it didn't cost me anything)
22:24:19Doggerkewl :)
22:25:08Strathya, looks like i got on board at the right time, when all the real fun is :)
22:26:03Strathreverse engineering is my main hobby
22:26:12Doggercant think of how archos could have used the potential in the hardware less
22:26:21Doggeryeah mine too
22:26:24Dogger(and job)
22:26:34bobdbobsorry to lurk −− is there a web page setup for the av300 effort yet?
22:26:46 Join top_bloke [0] (
22:26:53*Strath jumps
22:27:07Strathoh... didn't see you there :P
22:27:12bobdbobheh is a bit
22:27:33bobdbobcool, thanks
22:27:45Doggerbut its all up in the air cos of legalities
22:28:01DoggerI have a private site which I will open up once archos realise they are stupid
22:28:12bobdbobheh, sounds good
22:28:21Strathhow is that going?
22:28:25bobdbobI love reverse engineering too... it's not my job, though (yet)...
22:28:41Doggerreverse engineer the firmware format
22:28:44bobdbobgot my EE BS, working on an CprE MS...
22:28:49Doggerits like a nice big crossword puzzle
22:29:27Strathwell, i just set the bytes per line to 17
22:29:48Strathand read down the collumn
22:30:05Strathodd artifact...
22:31:06Straththere are at least three other people who have duplicated your work now
22:31:20Dogger1. you'd have to be stupid to use any lame xor encryption
22:31:30Dogger2. you'd have to be even stupider to use ur name as the key
22:31:46Doggerkindof explains why the firmware is so rubbish
22:32:07Strathya think
22:32:32Strathi was so pissed about the gmini plugin crap
22:32:41Doggerits a scam
22:32:43Doggera con
22:32:57Doggerif I buy a mouse do I have to pay to buy plugin firmware to make the buttons work?
22:33:49Stratheverything i've seen to this date points to the "features" being default options, but then being ripped out/disabled at the last minute and a footnote added to the documentation
22:34:04Doggerprolly went over budget
22:34:15Strathno dogger, just to use the scroll whell
22:34:17Doggerand thought 'hmm how can we con some money out of some stupid people'
22:34:22Zagori wouldn't call it a scam. it's bad business, but it's not illegal.
22:34:30Doggerit should be illegal IMHO
22:35:04Zagorwhat exactly? selling software?
22:35:18Strathi had it home and charging before i realized
22:35:27Doggerselling hardware, for which you are the only one who can unlock extra features
22:35:48Zagorsuch as nvidia graphic cards, for example?
22:36:03Doggeryep lol
22:36:38Strathlike selling a computer with a dvd burner in it, but charging later for the burning software
22:36:57Doggerand not allowing anyone else to write software to burn dvds
22:37:17Strathjust i type slow :P
22:37:21DoggerI thought that was an unfair monopoly
22:37:52Strathok, few minute break
22:38:11Zagorit's not monopoly to not give away your drivers. it's a shitty deal, but they announce it beforehand so it's completely legal
22:38:30Doggerit is a monopoly!
22:38:37Doggerur the only one who can write drivers
22:38:46Doggeryou have an unfair monopoly on writing drivers
22:38:58Doggerits like microsoft not allowing people to write software to run on windows
22:39:07Doggerand only allowing THEIR software to run
22:39:12Zagorno, it's like nvidia not giving out specs to their graphics cards
22:39:25DoggerREing wins every time anyway
22:39:40Doggerif people want to code nvidia cards, they can
22:39:48Doggernothing is immune to a good REer
22:39:59Zagorpeople can code their av300s too
22:40:09DoggerI am now :)
22:41:35c0uttaguys, do we have a standard for comment identifiers within config files in rockbox ?
22:42:47Zagorc0utta: #
22:42:57c0uttathanks zagor
23:01:55 Join arspy87 [0] (
23:02:17 Part arspy87
23:05:45dwihnoZagor: you around?
23:07:18dwihnoI've got an ajz I'd like your opinion on...
23:07:47dwihnothe current patch is ugly, but if I get an approval of the idea, I'll clean it up and make it Nice(tm)
23:08:00dwihnorecorder v1, 2mb
23:08:04Zagorwhat shoul I look for?
23:08:32dwihnoand the sound settings menu
23:12:07dwihnoWhat do you think=
23:12:28dwihnoInitially, I did a plugin until I realized it would be feasible :)
23:12:39Zagori'm not so hot for graphical menus myself but i know a lot of other people want it
23:13:29Zagorthe sound settings look awesome
23:14:42dwihnoIt needs some work.
23:14:53dwihnoShould it be configurable or should we replace the current layout?
23:15:07dwihno(on bitmap targets)
23:15:50Zagori think the sound menu could replace the current menu. it similar enough in layout and use. the main icons should probably be an option though
23:20:55dwihnoThen I'll continue my work.
23:21:35dwihnoFeels good it'll get into CVS eventually ;)
23:28:02 Join LinusN [200] (
23:28:27Strathwb linus
23:28:43Doggerhi linus
23:28:46LinusNdwihno: can i see your work?
23:29:42LinusNhi Dogger
23:30:19 Join kurzhaarrocker [0] (
23:30:54 Quit Hadaka (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
23:32:23Strathlinus, how would i add a file to the avos sf project?
23:32:37Strathsorry, dogger...
23:32:42Doggerwhat file?
23:33:51kurzhaarrockerLinusN: have I been able to arouse your curiosity with the triggered recording patch?
23:34:09Stratha source file that displays a bit of information about a firmware file
23:34:15dwihnoI'll send you the same file Linus.
23:34:23LinusNindeed, i just haven't had the time to try iut yet
23:34:42dwihnoyour dcc is broken?
23:34:45Doggerstrath - what sort of info
23:34:48dwihnoit worked ,)
23:35:47Strathbacicly its a riff parser that displays info about the riff structure and the ajz contained within
23:36:29DoggerI dont think its a good idea to add things like that to avos
23:36:32 Join Hadaka [0] (
23:36:45Doggerif you want, start your own project and bear the wrath of archos' lawyers
23:36:53Strathit doesn't touch the encryption..
23:37:09ZagorStrath: i can host it if you want
23:37:23Doggerhosting isnt the issue but anyway
23:37:27Strathjust info about published file formats
23:37:55LinusNdwihno: rolo error, file length mismatch
23:38:13Doggersure... but it might be better to start a new project anyway... one which archos aren't looking at
23:38:21Doggeror just add it to rockbox cvs
23:39:18Strathyou do know about the accesibility of the sourceforge page through the non home page?
23:39:25LinusNdwihno: send it again
23:40:02Strathare they? (before now? :P )
23:41:29dwihnothere you go.
23:43:19kurzhaarrockerAre there any plans to move the global settings in that special hd sector to a real config file?
23:43:27Strathi assume that thier letter only refered to the page and not the pages?
23:43:32Zagorkurzhaarrocker: yes
23:44:22kurzhaarrockerZagor are these plans scheduled for the near future so that I don't have to bother about merging setting bits for new features right now?
23:44:54Zagornot really :-)
23:44:55LinusNdwihno: the sound settings look nice, but the values are not correct
23:45:44LinusNand the "channels", "auto volume" and "balance" are not working at all
23:46:05Zagorbalance works in one direction :)
23:46:35 Quit top_bloke (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:47:07kurzhaarrockerYou lot are not talking about BlueChips sound setting plugin, are you?
23:48:31Zagori'll upload it
23:48:40LinusNi gotta go for a few minutes, brb
23:48:41dwihnoLinusN: I know... I'll fix those glitches :)
23:48:48dwihnoLinusN: so what do you think about it?
23:48:51 Nick LinusN is now known as Linus|away (
23:49:07Linus|awayi think the sliders are too coarse
23:49:18Linus|awayand i want the unit displayes after the numbers
23:49:48Linus|awayalso, i'm not too fond of icon interfaces :-(
23:50:05Linus|awaycu later
23:50:10Zagorme neither, but i know many people like them so it's not a bad option
23:50:14*Linus|away goes away
23:50:45DoggerStrath: the project avos
23:50:47Strathcould i ask to see a copy of thier letter?
23:51:12Strathor could you post it on the page
23:52:16 Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection)
23:53:34kurzhaarrockerI think I do like icon interfaces.
23:53:49Strathand what has come of the comunication with EFF?
23:54:04dwihnoAm I the only one who loves icons? :)
23:54:06Doggerwe have a contact lawyer there
23:54:11Doggerwho advised us we have a good case
23:54:19Doggerbut wanted some cash to write a letter to archos
23:54:24Doggerwe havent got enough money yet
23:54:45kurzhaarrockerdwihno: No, I like it, too
23:54:56Strathhow much would we need?
23:55:02Linus|awaydwihno: would you have understood what the menu items were without the explaining test underneath?
23:55:11Doggerhe wanted $2,000 or so up front (retainer)
23:55:16 Nick Linus|away is now known as LinusN (
23:55:38Strathand how much do we have?
23:55:50Doggerdonations = about $40 :)
23:56:36Strathso a ways to go yet? :)
23:56:55kurzhaarrockerLinusN, it's true, that the expanation beneath is necessary. But still I think it's more intuitive.
23:57:15Strathhow many core team members
23:57:35Strathand might i include Laurent and myself in that?
23:57:47Doggerabout 3/4 yeah + you 2
23:57:57Strath(gmini side of things)
23:58:00kurzhaarrockerLinusN: A text menu I have to read. Once I know the icons I just have to see. That's more convenient.
23:58:45kurzhaarrockerThe icons give easier associations, give individuality to the different menu items.

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