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#rockbox log for 2004-03-10

00:00:17quelsarukhehe.. if you do that and apears some kind of bug.. zagor may kill you ;)
00:00:57LinusNoh yes, it is purely out of fear for zagor :-)
00:01:11quelsaruk(i'm still looking for that nasty function)
00:01:42amiconnThe safety margin is quite large: the player RAM allows <= 100 Ás RAS down, the recorders' <= 200 Ás. The refresh cycle is every ~15 Ás
00:03:15LinusNwell, how good is a dram controller if it stops refresing the dram just because the program is using the same page all the time :-)
00:04:20LinusNtime to reboot again, cu in a few
00:04:26LinusN(silly windows)
00:04:29 Part LinusN
00:04:42quelsaruklinus using windows :O
00:05:46*amiconn is also using windows
00:05:52quelsarukme too
00:06:18quelsarukbut... is like reading zagor saying something like "rebooting windows"
00:06:28 Join LinusN [200] (
00:06:41amiconnHello again :)
00:07:13quelsarukre LinusN
00:09:22amiconnLinusN: My ata timing calculations also show that ATA reading inserts 2 wait cycles (3 cycles in total) which conforms to the bus controller settings.
00:09:55 Join midk [0] (
00:10:27amiconnI suspect a timing problem (race condition) to cause the file system corruption, especially because you said that there are 2 threads.
00:10:34LinusNme too
00:10:45midkhey linux
00:10:48midkand amiconn
00:10:52midklinus* sorry!!
00:11:07amiconnHi midk
00:11:47quelsarukhi midk
00:11:53midkhi quel
00:12:05quelsarukwere you able to make better icons?
00:12:46amiconnLinusN: I do not yet fully understand the threading concept in rockbox.
00:13:02midkquel, i didn't see any
00:13:06midkaren't they just checkboxes?
00:13:53amiconnLinusN: Did you notice my smaller & faster descramble.S patch?
00:14:01LinusNyes i did
00:14:06LinusNthe threading is simple
00:14:19quelsarukyes midk, checkboxes :)
00:14:28midkyou mean new ones?
00:15:02quelsaruki haven't done new ones, just if you managed to make new ones ;)
00:15:40midksry no, now my ajb is gone byebye for a small bit too
00:15:45midkabout a week
00:16:14amiconnLinusN: If there are 2 threads (read and write) and optimizing one of them causes problems, shouldn't optimizing the other one cause the problems to go away??
00:16:32amiconn(Crazy idea)
00:17:27quelsarukdon't worry midk, now i'm working on the other part, splash menu« !!!
00:19:01LinusNamiconn: booooh! :-)
00:19:58LinusNif there is a race, we must of course synchronize it
00:20:23 Quit elinenbe (
00:20:23 Quit webmind (
00:20:23 Quit Hadaka (
00:21:05NJoinelinenbe [0] (
00:21:05NJoinHadaka [0] (
00:21:05NJoinwebmind [0] (
00:21:48midkquel: great
00:22:09*quelsaruk hides
00:22:10LinusNamiconn: the threading is cooperative
00:22:28quelsarukLinusN, could i ask you something?
00:22:37LinusNthe yield() function schedules the next thread, round-robin
00:22:41LinusNquelsaruk: sure
00:24:17quelsarukis it possible that you build a simulator and see how does the splash menu look like? just a first impresion :P the hard critic can wait until tomorrow or even more ;)
00:25:43LinusNi'll see what i can do, right now i am busy with Paid Work(tm)
00:25:48amiconnLinusN: I did only find one thread named ata? What other thread does access the hd?
00:26:10midkquel. i can try! :)
00:26:15LinusNthe ata thread is only responsible for the spinup/spindown
00:26:42LinusNall other disk activity takes place in the context of the calling thread
00:26:47quelsarukLinusN, dont' worry then, just send me a mail with your opinion, and so on. So i can continue working on that (anyway i won't do anything tomorrow)
00:27:05midkquel can i work on it?
00:27:41quelsarukmidk, what do you mean? in the icons? the splash menu? or the implementation of both things?
00:27:57quelsaruk(too late in the night and my brain doesn't work)
00:29:28quelsaruki would like to finish at least the body.. then of course anyone can improve it ;)
00:32:04amiconnLinusN: One thing that is somewhat mysterious for me: at he end of ata_read_sectors and ata_write_sectors the ata_flush() function is called..
00:32:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:32:21LinusNthat's where i'm looking right now
00:32:37LinusNthe recursive call to ata_write_sectors() is a nice one :-)
00:33:05LinusNor did you want to know the reason for it?
00:34:00amiconn..if there is a delayed sector. But in ata_delayed_write it _not_ checked if a delayed sector already exists? Do I miss something here?
00:34:04quelsarukhave to go
00:34:07midkbye quel
00:34:09quelsarukhave a nice night!
00:34:14amiconnbye quelsaruk!
00:34:24 Quit quelsaruk ()
00:35:23LinusNamiconn: it is always the same sector
00:35:38LinusNnamely 62
00:36:13 Join track [0] (
00:36:28amiconnHi track
00:36:28trackhi linusn
00:36:32trackhi Amiconn
00:36:34midkhi track
00:36:38trackhi midk
00:36:47trackhavent been here for a fair while
00:36:53midki noticed!
00:37:08amiconnLinusN: Why is there a "sector" argument to ata_delayed_write then?
00:39:09midkcan we change the topic
00:39:11midkOMFG i just
00:39:15midki was gonna say that
00:39:17midkthen i saw it
00:39:38LinusNamiconn: well, we had an idea about using several sectors, but we never implemented it
00:39:47LinusN(and it is sector 61 btw)
00:41:17amiconnOk. I realize that this is only called from settings.c
00:43:34amiconnHow could two threads use ata_read_sectors and ata_write_sectors simultaneously, as they are protected with a mutex?
00:44:05tracksorry was talking to myself
00:44:54trackhope one day the mas can be reprogrammed
00:46:13midkit can't
00:46:16midkbut archos dies
00:46:32trackMP3 wont last forever
00:46:45midktrack: but longer than your archos i'm sure
00:46:53LinusNtrack: we have the programming docs for MAS3507D
00:47:01midkand there aren't any players out there that don...... what?
00:47:43LinusNwe can program the MAS3507D
00:47:49LinusNand we have a simulator as well
00:47:51midkuh why don't you
00:48:23LinusNi have no time
00:48:32midkbut you can?!
00:48:38*midk stares
00:48:47LinusNthere was a guy who really showed some interest, but i haven't heard from him in a while
00:49:06midkwhen did you get them? was it that time someone showed you a site with a lot of PDF files
00:49:40LinusNa university had put up the secret docs for public download
00:49:47trackso can u program it to play wma or atrac3?
00:49:48midkALL OURS
00:50:01LinusN(they got slashdott...rockboxed) :-)
00:50:20LinusNtrack: probably not
00:50:32LinusNtoo little memory
00:50:40LinusNbut wav should be easy
00:50:40midklinus: wav?
00:50:45midksound effects?
00:51:20LinusNwell, we don't know how to enhance the builtin mp3 decoder
00:51:38midkthe AV3XX uses the 3507 too
00:51:49midksorta nifty
00:51:57midki have an av320 now
00:51:57LinusNit can probably be done, but there is no docs on the mp3 decoder, just the DSP itself
00:52:02midksounds pretty much the same
00:52:13LinusNmidk: the 3507??????
00:52:20LinusNhow lousy
00:52:26midki was thinking that actually
00:52:29LinusNwhy not the 3587?
00:52:29midkbut it plays WAV
00:52:32midker was it
00:52:37midkthat must be it
00:52:54midkthe two look the same, i swear! :)
00:54:13LinusNbut they definitely don't sound the same :-)
00:54:49 Join diddystar5 [0] (
00:54:56midkwell they have "bass" "treble" "loudness
00:55:04midkso it does sound the same to me
00:55:13midkshould it sound "Better"?
00:55:45LinusNmuch richer sound
00:55:50amiconnLinusN: Concerning my "RAS down" patch: I averaged then speed increase of the various ata loops to be +10%, bitswap is +17%
00:56:02midkas in the ajb sounds worse?
00:56:07midkit sounds really good, but rockbox does too
00:56:08LinusNplus SuperBass/MDB and Loudness
00:56:13midkthey don't do superbass
00:56:20midkbut AVOS better! :)
00:56:40amiconnThe 3587 superbass adds quite noticeable distortions.
00:57:21LinusNamiconn: on which volume level?
00:58:09LinusNi can't hear any distortion
00:58:34amiconnLinusN: Even for normal volume (headphones, volume 65..70). It is especially noticeable in very quiet passages.
00:58:56midkamiconn: I can't either
00:59:00midksounds excellent to me
00:59:02LinusNah, like a whistling artifact?
00:59:06midkbut yes, it does make some funky sounds to me
00:59:16midkchanging volume makes it beep
00:59:23midksort of bad work on Micronas' part
01:02:15diddystar5arghh sourceforge = slow today
01:02:34amiconnLinusN: Yes something like that
01:04:01amiconnLinusN: It is not from my mp3s, since I encode with a quite high quality setting (lame −−preset standard, yields ~200 kbps). It goes away when I set bass boost to 0
01:04:41LinusNyes i can hear it too, but i wouldn't call it distortion
01:05:02LinusNmore like "noise" or "artifacts"
01:05:50amiconnLinusN: Nevertheless it is annoying, so I don't use bass boost anymore.
01:06:14LinusNgod, i can't stand this Windows anymore, time to boot into linux again, hang on
01:06:18 Part LinusN
01:08:34 Join LinusN [200] (
01:08:39LinusNaaaaaaah, much better
01:08:52amiconnre LinusN
01:08:56midkwhy were you on Windows?
01:09:23LinusNPaid Work(tm)
01:09:31midkuh, sure
01:09:58amiconnLinusN: What windows version?
01:10:17diddystar5thats so old...
01:10:32diddystar5LinusN: go find/dl a copy of xp
01:10:36LinusNold and sucky
01:10:50LinusNi have xp on my laptop
01:11:05diddystar5ohh thats good
01:11:06LinusNnew and sucky
01:11:31diddystar5humm i wouldnt say sucky.... linux has its suckiness also
01:12:00LinusNxp is nice in a way
01:12:12LinusNand linux sux in some respects
01:12:38LinusNbut for software development, linux is always my first choice
01:12:42diddystar5i just wish it had more customisable, and it didnt lock you into using internet explorer for stuff so much
01:12:49diddystar5and i hate their media player
01:13:02amiconnXP runs rock solid here (also on a laptop). Didn't have one single OS crash (within several months)
01:13:04midkwmp is the best
01:13:10LinusNamiconn: same here
01:13:29diddystar5wou mean wmp = winamp or windows media player?
01:13:34midkwindows media player
01:13:39diddystar5windows media player sucks and its annoying
01:13:43midkhow so?
01:13:45HadakaI don't use IE and I don't use windows media player, but I do use XP
01:13:48Hadakaor rather, did
01:13:48midkyou failed to mention why
01:13:53Hadakanowadays using W2k3
01:14:00diddystar5i use mozilla and winamp :)
01:14:04LinusNseems i just started a flame war :-)
01:14:25HadakaLinusN: let it brew a bit, and it might be ;)
01:14:39*scott666 uses firefox and winamp 5 also
01:15:04midkdiddystar5: w, h, y,?
01:15:08diddystar5firefox is extremly lightweight compared to the full mozilla
01:15:41Hadakaluckily window 2003 has the enhanced security extension to IE which basically castrates it so it can't browse anything - so I can safely leave it there and use firefox
01:15:49diddystar5midk: it dosent play all the media types, its skins suck, and there are not many of them, you can customise it very much, it wants you to encode to WMA....
01:15:59diddystar5i could go on and on...
01:16:07midkplease do
01:16:10midkin privmsg
01:16:11amiconndiddystar5: I did test firefox also, no use for me (not localized, some sites that I have to use check browser language).
01:16:23HadakaMPC or media player classic is really nice for video playing though...
01:17:03Hadakaamiconn: you can customize the accept-languages option it sends to web servers - and that's the *only* think a site can check
01:17:37amiconnHadaka: I didn't find that option anywhere in the UI (latest version, 0.8)
01:18:34Hadakaamiconn: go to about:config, pick intl.accept_languages, type your languages there
01:19:32amiconnHadaka: Didn't know about about:config. Thanks for the hint. Now I Use Mozilla 1.6. My impression of firefox was that it isn't faster than Mozilla either (same engine)
01:20:05Hadakaamiconn: rendering is not significantly faster or slower, no
01:22:04 Quit track ("leafChat IRC client:")
01:22:12amiconnUnfortunately for some sites one has to use IE (Thanks to some silly so-called "web developers").
01:22:44Hadakayah, ran into one just recently :(
01:23:11Hadakayou can't subscribe to any of ubisoft's games without IE
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01:23:59amiconnIf I do web development, I test with as much browsers as I get hold of (approx. 15 atm).
01:24:30HadakaIf I do web development, I read the standard and that's it
01:26:01amiconnHadaka: In an ideal world this would be sufficient, but my experience is that all browsers have their quirks, even the latest. Also, I want to do "graceful degradation" for older browsers.
01:27:06MTamiconn: im no professional web developer (i do LAMP work and get paid for it, but I dont live off it) - but how far back do you test?
01:27:38MTI test IE 5, 5.5, 5.5 sp1, 6 and moz and opera bleeding edge
01:29:53amiconnHadaka: I'm also not a professional, but I want that everybody can access my pages. I test: (On Windows) IE 6sp1, 5.5sp2, 5.01sp2, 4.01, Mozilla 1.6, Netscape 4.78, 3.03, Opera 7, 6, Espial Escape 5, HotJava 3.0 ..
01:30:20MTyou test hotjava?!
01:30:27amiconnHadaka: (On Linux): Konqueror, Mozilla; (On Amiga): AWeb 3.4, IBrowse 2.3
01:30:47Hadakaquite a dutiful set
01:31:38Hadakafor me it is enough that if the pages I create look bad on browsers that do not abide the standard, then perhaps that is yet one small incentive more to get a browser that does
01:32:15amiconnMT: Yes. Hotjava sometimes is very funny: It claims to support layers, but it doesn't for real -> caused me to do some more sanity checks in JavaScript. Also has massive probs with CSS.
01:33:30amiconnHadaka: for me it is also sufficient if the pages are readable in browsers that don't support modern standard, but I want to protect all users from JS errors.
01:33:59amiconns/readable/just readable/
01:35:34Hadakawho spoke anything about *modern* standards? HTML 4.0 is ancient, XHTML 1.x is backwards compatible
01:37:27amiconnHadaka: XHTML itself is backwards compatible, but only if you leave out the XML declaration: This is shown as cleartext in some old browsers!
01:39:01HadakaI believe HTML 4.0 and even earlier specified that any unrecognized tags (even if there were odd characters there) were to be stripped from output
01:40:23amiconnYes, but some old browsers don't recognize <?xml as a tag, since there is no letter after the <.
01:40:52MTthe xml prolog isnt compulsory
01:41:04Hadakabut again, if they can't be bothered to read a standard that has been existing since 1996, maybe it is time they switched browsers
01:41:06MTcelik recommends leaving it out, even for modern browsers
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01:43:11amiconnHadaka: For some systems, there is no choice. Further, I don't want to force my visitors to change their software.
01:44:25Hadakawell, again, quite a dutiful approach - but personally I think there has to be *some* limit to the amount of old broken software quirks to which to accomodate to
01:49:55amiconnHadaka: I set some very basic requirements for browsers my pages should work in: (1) frame support, (2) JavaScript support >= JS 1.1, (3) not too many/ too strange bugs
01:51:01Hadakaamiconn: two of the three browsers I use daily fail at (2) and the third has JavaScript disabled, and one fails at (1)
01:52:16amiconnHadaka: IE 3.0x fails in (2), Hotjava most of the time in (3), the dinosaur Mosaic already in (1). The others being?
01:52:51Hadakawell, I use lynx, w3m and firefox daily - and firefox has java and javascript disabled
01:52:57amiconnHadaka: Btw.: Java
01:53:17amiconnOoops, return key was too near!
01:55:13amiconnHadaka: Btw: JavaScript disabled is ok for me, I just don't support JS 1.0. Don't use Java at all. Most of my pages are worth nothing without graphics, so don't care about Lynx. What is w3m???
01:55:40Hadakadon't assume text-based browser means no graphics
01:56:09Hadakaw3m == www miru, a text-based browser that supports frames and tables and a bunch of other nifty stuff
01:57:09*diddystar is very bored listening about java and browsers
01:57:29midktry turning it to linux
01:57:35midkthen you'll be interested
01:57:58amiconndiddystar: you are right, this became rather ot.
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02:03:04LinusNnite all
02:03:19amiconnnite LinusN
02:03:23 Part LinusN
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02:06:33amiconnHadaka: Looks rather strange, esp. the colors..
02:07:43Hadakaamiconn: well that's how ridiculous looks like when rendered in an xterm with a black background
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02:09:35amiconnHadaka: The MS page has another quirk that I really hate: it is written for a fixed resolution. I use 1400x1050 (Laptop LCD) here, so almost the entire right half of the window is plain white.
02:10:01diddystarwhy do you run at such res?
02:10:12HadakaI have a laptop LCD at that res as well
02:10:13 Join midk [0] (
02:10:24Hadakaand that is a rather nice res, I must add
02:10:42amiconndiddystar: Because the LCD has that res, using a lower res would lead to blurry display.
02:11:05amiconnHadaka: Agreed :)
02:11:55HadakaI am considering using that with a desktop as well - it's nicely between 1280x960 and 1600x1200
02:13:02amiconnHadaka: Then you have to find a desktop LCD that uses it. Didn't see one so far.
02:13:31HadakaI am still in the CRT age for desktops
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02:14:16diddystarwhew someone stinks!
02:16:30amiconnHadaka: I don't want back those fat CRTs with their flickering, non-linearity, high energy-consumption etc.
02:17:19midkDIE AMICONN
02:17:52*amiconn shoots itself
02:20:36amiconnnite all
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02:21:21midksorry about killing you
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04:07:43dwihnoWhat you say?
04:07:51midknight2k3yes i say what
04:09:33midknight2k3a breakthrough?
04:10:02dwihnoJust happy
04:10:31midknight2k3what happendsors
04:13:36dwihnoI got a web-app approved yesterday.
04:13:48midknight2k3what sort? :)
04:14:28dwihno... I just saw two pages of modifications on my desk
04:14:47dwihnoLet's just toss them in the recycle bin and pretend I never saw them ;D
04:16:03dwihnoJust kidding. I'm just having a hard time finding time for the project.
04:16:09*dwihno is swamped with work
04:16:16midknight2k3but have fun
04:16:21midknight2k3don't worry, be happy! :)
04:21:08dwihnoI'll just keep working on the other stuff until I get in touch with the guys. We need a serious talk.
04:21:35midknight2k3ok, be happy
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09:17:20wuddlhi everybody
09:18:54wuddlis anyone out there ??
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09:28:48 Join LinusN [200] (
09:31:18 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (
09:32:49[IDC]DragonHi LinusN, I have a working FM now, how do I extend the frequency range?
09:33:15[IDC]DragonI tried the #defines, but got only "mirrors" of the FM range
09:33:20LinusNwell, change the #define's in radio.c
09:33:40LinusNyes, i think the pll has problems when extending the range
09:34:10[IDC]Dragonthat's what I did
09:34:47[IDC]Dragonthen I get the regular stations at some wild frequencies, too.
09:35:09[IDC]Dragonlooks like the normal FM range folds across the scale
09:35:41LinusNyou are of course free to investigate :-)
09:36:03[IDC]DragonI'm investingating the boot time right now
09:36:32[IDC]Dragonwrote a kind of "profiler" to remember time stamps during the init
09:36:33LinusNthe boot time?
09:36:45[IDC]Dragonand a debug screen to view the results
09:36:51LinusNspeaking of fm, we have an issue with flashed fm's
09:37:15[IDC]DragonI have a flashed FM
09:37:34LinusNthe hardware presence check reads back a shifted value, suggesting a glitch in the serial comm
09:37:47LinusNyou haven't seen that?
09:38:04[IDC]Dragonhow do I see that?
09:39:56*LinusN goes to fill his coffee cup
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09:57:49[IDC]Dragonwhy should this FM problem relate to flashing?
10:05:30[IDC]Dragonwas it just one user?
10:05:44[IDC]Dragonshould we tolerate the shifted value?
10:07:25LinusNno, we should not tolerate it
10:07:33LinusNis it (so far) only one user
10:07:59LinusNand the flash theory is purely mine
10:08:25[IDC]Dragonhe could un-flash to test
10:08:30LinusNyes he could
10:09:04LinusNthe tricky thing about the fm is that the serial port uses the same pins as the lcd
10:09:15LinusNonly with an inverted CS
10:09:55[IDC]Dragonso one edge to much can disturb/shift it?
10:12:34[IDC]Dragonand you think that edge may come from my bootloader or so?
10:12:57LinusNi don't think the bootloader is to blame
10:13:18LinusNas soon as the CS is negated, the serial transaction ends
10:13:40LinusNso the serial transaction restarts after every lcd update
10:14:01[IDC]DragonI still don't understand why you suspect the flashing
10:14:29LinusNwell, maybe i have forgotten some initialization that the archos firmware does before loading ajbrec.ajz
10:15:13LinusNand that's the only obvious thing that differs between his fmr and mine
10:15:36[IDC]DragonBut since it works for everybody but one, there is nothing generally wrong
10:15:39LinusN(and my fmr serial port is broken, so i don't dare to flash it myself)
10:16:19LinusNyeah i know i can resolder the flash, but it's so tedious, and i don't have a standalone programmer
10:16:23[IDC]DragonTo most users, the serial is out of reach anyway
10:18:04[IDC]DragonI think the procedure is proven enough, not to worry
10:18:11LinusNyeah, i know
10:20:27[IDC]Dragonfor the tuner detection: maybe the shifted value should be tolerated, view it as kind of sync phase before using the tuner.
10:20:44[IDC]DragonOr query it twice?
10:20:52LinusNsounds lame
10:21:01LinusNi'd rather find out why it is shifted
10:21:15*LinusN has ordered a logic analyzer
10:21:19[IDC]Dragonbut if there is some "garbage" to be shifted out...
10:21:31[IDC]DragonAha, which?
10:23:49LinusNcheapo stuff,
10:24:17[IDC]Dragondo you know this one:
10:26:25[IDC]Dragonyou call that cheap?
10:26:59[IDC]DragonBut yours has got a nice buffer depth.
10:27:07LinusNyeah, i was looking at the ant16 for quite some time
10:27:34LinusNbut i didn't find a retail seller in sweden
10:28:16[IDC]Dragonand you don't like mail order?
10:32:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:34:19LinusNwell, it is my employer that buys it, and they prefer buying from swedish retailers, for tax and accounting purposes
10:35:05[IDC]DragonI see, I thought it's your hobby toy. That would have been an expensive one.
10:35:25LinusNi love expensive toys :-)
10:49:47[IDC]DragonI found something about the boot time
10:50:26[IDC]Dragonin ata_init(), ata_hard_reset() is done twice
10:50:42[IDC]Dragononce for master, once for slave, I think.
10:51:07LinusNyeah, saw that, silly
10:51:11[IDC]Dragonbut _both_ calls take significant time, each.
10:52:08[IDC]Dragonthis is why flash start is not as fast any more as it used to be, I think.
10:52:56LinusNas it used to be? is the double ata reset a new thing?
10:53:30[IDC]Dragonnot exactly new, 2.1 was "slow", too
10:53:56[IDC]Dragononce I booted in 3 resp. 4 seconds
10:58:34LinusNwell, you added it july 9 2003
10:59:22dwihno[IDC]Dragon: If you disable the ata stuff for the slave, do you see a speed increase?
10:59:33LinusNquite unnecessary, since the reset line is independent of the device number
10:59:50[IDC]DragonI'm no expert
11:01:03LinusNhmmm, the reset line is shared, but ata_hard_reset() waits for !BSY, and then it has to select the device
11:02:18dwihnoI also encountered something really strange last night
11:02:36dwihnoI left the charger plugged in while I was asleep, and when I woke up, the unit was drained.
11:02:55dwihnoI had to use the archos' firmware charging to fill it up again.
11:03:03Bagderyou need to plug it into the wall as well ;-)
11:03:14[IDC]Dragonsorry one more: resetting this non-present drive takes 2.5 seconds
11:03:28[IDC]Dragonwho is generating that wait?
11:04:32LinusNwell, since no device is driving the bus, you read garbage from the bus, and the BSY bit may very well be set
11:05:25LinusNdwihno: flashed?
11:06:20[IDC]Dragonbut what makes the busy disappear after 2.5 seconds?
11:07:16LinusNi don't know, capacitance?
11:07:35[IDC]DragonI strongly doubt that.
11:07:48LinusN2.5s on the correct device or on the wrong device?
11:08:06[IDC]Dragonon the wrong one (if 0 is master)
11:08:48[IDC]Dragon0 takes 1.6 sec, 1 takes 2.5 sec
11:09:19[IDC]Dragoncomment in ata.c says: "this is safe because non-present devices don't report busy"
11:09:37LinusNisn't that your comment?
11:10:07[IDC]Dragonyes, I borrowed that knowledge somewhere (maybe from Zagor?)
11:10:30LinusNnon-present devices don't answer at all
11:10:42LinusNso the status register is read out of the air
11:11:29[IDC]Dragona very reproduceable 2.5 sec air
11:12:01[IDC]Dragonif that would be the case, we for sure would have users where this hangs
11:12:07dwihnoLinusN: Yes.
11:12:22LinusNdwihno: charging screen?
11:12:25dwihnoBagder: Ah. I KNEW there was something I missed
11:12:38dwihnoLinusN: I just woke up and the unit was completely drained. Wouldn't start at all.
11:12:59Bagderthat should teach you not to sleep that long!
11:13:16*Bagder is in his serious mood today
11:13:17LinusNyes, but was it on when you plugged it in, or did it enter the charging screen?
11:14:33dwihnoLinusN: can't remember. I was sleepy.
11:14:57LinusNthat's vital info, i'm afraid
11:23:34[IDC]DragonAs expected, the "Real Fast Startup" (tm) is back when the ata_hard_reset() of the absent disk is taken out!
11:24:39LinusNso, we need a good way of determining master/slave before ata_reset()...
11:25:09 Quit elinenbe (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
11:25:19[IDC]Dragonif that's posiible, yes
11:25:34 Join elinenbe [0] (
11:25:45LinusNsounds like a chicken and egg problem...
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11:26:47[IDC]Dragonor we remember which one is in
11:27:13[IDC]Dragonnot suitable for RTC-less players, forget it
11:28:13[IDC]Dragonor try master first (99% of the people probably have master disks), try slave if that gives errors
11:29:37*dwihno agrees 100% to that approach
11:31:39LinusNstill, why 2.5s before !BSY?
11:31:58dwihnoThe Rockbox ghost, of course!
11:32:19LinusN"out of goat blood error"
11:33:03[IDC]Dragonmaybe the other disk does that courtesy timeout for the absent one?
11:33:13[IDC]Dragon(wildly speculating)
11:33:26LinusNsounds silly
11:33:56LinusN(i want my logic analyzer NOW) :-)
11:38:50[IDC]DragonI'll shut up and dig my head in the ATA spec.
11:39:37LinusN(finally) :-)
11:39:59[IDC]DragonI take that personal!
11:42:33[IDC]DragonThis spec is not written for humans...
11:42:49LinusNit's terrible
11:43:56[IDC]Dragoncomforting that it's not just me
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11:52:44LinusNBagder: the old recorder can have black bumpers as well
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12:32:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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12:36:57c0uttahi linus
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13:25:28[IDC]DragonLinusN: I have a theory for ATA reset
13:26:11[IDC]DragonI think the device selection doesn't matter, so we just plainly did the reset twice.
13:26:24LinusNyes we did
13:26:36[IDC]DragonI know
13:26:45LinusNthe device selection only matters for the RDY poll
13:27:33[IDC]DragonI tried both device selections before the reset, it didn't matter
13:29:07LinusNso the first ws always 1.6s, even when it was the slave?
13:29:36[IDC]DragonFor some reason the second reset is slower.
13:30:03[IDC]DragonMaybe because the first had already the power-up time.
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13:30:39LinusNbut i can't understand why the BSY poll works (or not works) :-)
13:31:42[IDC]DragonATA chapter 9.1 instructs to poll BSY
13:31:56[IDC]Dragonit doesn't mention any device selection
13:33:33LinusNit is implied
13:34:27dwihnoLinusN: It's a genuine surprise perhaps? :)
13:36:57[IDC]Dragonhow about this footnote from 4.2.1:
13:36:58[IDC]Dragon3 Devices shall not have a pull-up resistor on DD7. The host shall have a 10 kW pull-down resistor and
13:36:58[IDC]Dragonnot a pull-up resistor on DD7 to allow a host to recognize the absence of a device at power-up so that
13:36:58DBUGEnqueued KICK [IDC]Dragon
13:36:58[IDC]Dragona host shall detect BSY as being cleared when attempting to read the Status register of a device that
13:36:58[IDC]Dragonis not present.
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13:41:21mattzzg'morning :)
13:41:41LinusNmattzz: hi
13:42:22LinusN[IDC]Dragon: it seems like the devices are synchronized in the reset phase, and the device selection doesn't matter
13:42:55[IDC]DragonSo I'm safe to kick that 2nd reset out?
13:43:15[IDC]Dragon(I'd like to...)
13:43:28LinusNtry it
13:43:41[IDC]DragonI did, works for me
13:43:46LinusNremember why you did two resets in the first place?
13:44:08[IDC]Dragonprobably because Bj÷rn told so, I don't remember
13:44:22LinusNnever listen to that guy :-)
13:44:24[IDC]Dragonwill dig out the IRC logs
13:47:01[IDC]Dragonit was Stevie-O:
13:47:19[IDC]Dragonand we were quite unclear about it
13:47:28dwihnoLet's disable it \o/
13:49:48LinusN[IDC]Dragon: your drive is jumpered, right?
13:49:56LinusNso try both combos
13:50:17[IDC]Dragonhas empty jumper places
13:50:31LinusNmaster, that is
13:50:40LinusNso set it to slave and try again
13:50:51[IDC]DragonI don't really like to take it apart
13:52:05[IDC]DragonThe thread for the tiny screws at top and bottom is already pretty worn out
13:54:35[IDC]Dragonbut I'm considering it
14:01:25 Quit scott666 ("i'll be back...eventually...")
14:01:38dwihnoIt would be so nice with a faster flash boot
14:02:12[IDC]Dragondwihno: stop whining ;)
14:02:21LinusNdwihno: is your drive master or slave?
14:02:48[IDC]DragonOr: anybody with a slave drive here?
14:03:15Bagderlinus has my drive! :-)
14:03:48BagderI had to buy him a pizza
14:03:59Bagderpoor me
14:04:34[IDC]DragonI take your drive, if you buy me a pizza
14:04:52Bagderdamn it, this is gonna be expensive ;-)
14:05:51LinusNmine are masters, all 4 of them :-)
14:06:09[IDC]DragonLinusN the quad-master
14:06:13BagderI'm but a slave personally
14:07:00LinusNBagder: buy me an Indian lunch and i'll give you the jukebox back :-)
14:07:08dwihnoLinusN: Wait. I'll check.
14:07:11[IDC]Dragonyou have to work on your self-esteem
14:07:20BagderLinusN: that's not a bad idea
14:07:31Bagderbut I can't tomorrow
14:07:47dwihno02x00, master
14:07:53dwihno0x200, I mean.
14:10:22dwihnoWhen I power on the unit, it powers on, spins up the disk, shows logo, spins down, spins up, resumes
14:10:49[IDC]Dragonthis has been fixed.
14:10:51LinusNdwihno: use the latest version
14:11:12dwihnoah, ok
14:11:30LinusNdoes anyone know the status of the 2.2 docs?
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14:13:33dwihno[IDC]Dragon: How big difference is the boot time without the slave ATA thingy?
14:13:56[IDC]Dragon2.5 seconds
14:14:24[IDC]Dragonit's not "without slave", it's without double reset
14:15:58dwihnoWhere do I disable it? I might as well cook my own binary
14:16:15 Join xCT [0] (
14:16:35xCThow can I mount my JB Studio 20 in linux?
14:16:46[IDC]Dragondwihno: take out one ata_hard_reset() in ata.c
14:16:56xCTor access..
14:17:12LinusNxCT: you need the ISD200 driver, and usb-storage
14:17:24LinusNpreferrably as modules
14:18:17LinusNinsmod usb-uhci (or usb-ohci)
14:18:23LinusNinsmod usb-storage
14:18:23dwihnocheckout failed(?)
14:18:34LinusNmkdir /mnt/archos
14:19:03LinusNmount -t vfat /dev/sda1 /mnt/archos
14:20:08dwihnohas there been any building for the Neo players yet?
14:20:22xCTinsmod usb-storage
14:20:22xCTbash: insmod: command not foundinsmod usb-storage
14:20:22xCTbash: insmod: command not found
14:20:29Bagderdwihno: it builds, but it doesn't run correctly
14:20:44LinusNxCT: you need to be root
14:20:51BagderxCT: /sbin/insmod
14:20:57xCT: d
14:21:13dwihnoBagder: aha, ok.
14:21:20Bagderdwihno: zagor has a neo, we should nag on him ;-)
14:21:23xCTinsmod usb-storage
14:21:23xCTbash: insmod: command not found
14:21:31xCTinsmod: a module named usb-uhci already exists
14:21:36dwihnoBagder: is it cool? it's a car-only player, am I right?
14:21:51Bagderdwihno: they have both car stereos and a portable one
14:21:58xCTwhere can i find this usb-uhci then?
14:22:04dwihnoBagder: got any urls?
14:22:07Bagderthe neo 35 is a car stereo but is rather dull, with a charcell display
14:22:10LinusNxCT: if it exists, all is fine
14:22:23LinusNhow about usb-storage?
14:22:30Bagderdwihno: hang on
14:22:58xCTinsmod: a module named usb-storage already exists
14:23:15LinusNthen try the mkdir and the mount (with the jukebox attached)
14:23:37Bagderthat's the neo 35
14:23:53Bagderalthough I must say it looks crappier in real life ;-)
14:24:01xCT[root@cp74347-a /]# mount -t vfat /dev/sda1 /mnt/archos
14:24:01xCTmount: special device /dev/sda1 does not exist
14:24:21 Quit moorkonig (Remote closed the connection)
14:24:29LinusNtail -50 /var/log/messages
14:25:30LinusNthat should tell you if the jukebox ws recognized
14:25:44xCTwhat should i look for?
14:26:05LinusNanything about USB finding a device or something
14:26:17xCTMar 10 13:46:26 localhost harddrake2[6687]: weird, host2 from /proc/scsi/usb-sto
14:26:17xCTrage-*/* is not in /proc/scsi/scsi
14:26:25Bagderthat's a good overview
14:26:30xCTlike 10 times
14:27:01Bagderthe neo 55 has a graphical LCD at least
14:27:07LinusNxCT: strange
14:27:28xCTMar 10 13:46:26 localhost harddrake2[6687]: weird, host1 from /proc/scsi/usb-storage-*/* is not in /proc/scsi/scsi
14:27:29xCTMar 10 13:46:26 localhost harddrake2[6687]: weird, host2 from /proc/scsi/usb-storage-*/* is not in /proc/scsi/scsi
14:27:43LinusNnever seen that msg before
14:27:44xCTmaybe it has something to do with my hd error :X
14:27:54LinusNhd error?
14:27:55BagderxCT: do "cat /proc/scsi/scsi"
14:28:30xCTMar 10 13:46:26 localhost harddrake2[6687]: weird, host1 from /proc/scsi/usb-storage-*/* is not in /proc/scsi/scsi
14:28:30xCTMar 10 13:46:26 localhost harddrake2[6687]: weird, host2 from /proc/scsi/usb-storage-*/* is not in /proc/scsi/scsi
14:28:36xCThd error on my JB :X
14:28:45dwihnoBagder: heh.
14:28:53xCTAttached devices:
14:28:53xCTHost: scsi0 Channel: 00 Id: 00 Lun: 00
14:28:53xCT Vendor: PLEXTOR Model: CD-R PX-W1210A Rev: 1.07
14:28:53DBUGEnqueued KICK xCT
14:28:53xCT Type: CD-ROM ANSI SCSI revision: 02
14:29:23Bagderthat's not your archos ;-)
14:29:43LinusNxCT: does the hd spin up on the jukebox?
14:29:53dwihnoBagder: what was the model of the portable thingy?
14:30:16Bagderneo 25
14:30:53Bagderthey seem to have a newer neo 25 too
14:31:04Bagder97*32 graphic lcd
14:31:12xCTnot really :(
14:31:13Bagderthey have weird things ;-)
14:31:18xCTI just get HD Error
14:31:27xCTand a few times I got some jibberish on screen
14:31:58Bagder"buffer: 8 MByte Flash Memory Buffer for anti shock and increase playing time"
14:32:08Bagderthey have flash for mp3 buffer?
14:32:26***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:32:30dwihnoI disabled the lines 966-968 of ata.c, anything else I need to do, J÷rg?
14:33:22LinusNxCT: then you won't be able to mount it either
14:34:06CtcpIgnored 2 channel CTCP requests in 51 minutes and 55 seconds at the last flood
14:34:06*[IDC]Dragon searches for tiny little jumper
14:34:07LinusNyou need to repair it first
14:37:36xCTi'll just go cash the warrenty then
14:38:13xCT: d
14:38:19mattzzxCT: did you reformat it with any other filesystem than fat32?
14:38:20LinusNyour device is definitely broken
14:38:29xCTi got it from a girl
14:38:40xCTi could buy it for 70 euro
14:38:53xCTbut it hasn't been working so i haven't paid her..
14:39:03xCTi don't know what she did with it
14:39:13LinusNthe repair is usually fairly easy
14:39:26LinusNask Bagder :-)
14:39:30xCTeasy as in just connect some cables?
14:39:50xCTBagder, have you repaired your hd ? :P
14:39:50LinusNas in resoldering a few solder points
14:39:56BagderI do it all the time... but it costs me a pizza and I have to live without it while the repairman/pizza-eater fixes it
14:40:14LinusNthat's me
14:40:17*Bagder points in LinusN's direction
14:40:50dwihno\o/ kronans pizza \o/
14:40:58xCTswedish guys huh
14:41:28Bagderyou can come up here and buy LinusN a pizza too! :-P
14:41:40xCTwhere do you live?
14:41:49LinusNdwihno: i have switched to Leffes nowadays
14:41:58LinusNxCT: outside stockholm
14:42:04xCTtoo bad
14:42:09xCTi have some friends in Gothenburg >:)
14:42:14[IDC]DragonLinusN: works for slave also
14:42:24LinusNi'm in gothenburg occasionally
14:42:30LinusN[IDC]Dragon: great!
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14:42:54[IDC]Dragoncvs commit?
14:45:03LinusNBagder: what do you think?
14:45:29Bagderabout what?
14:45:44LinusNabout committing the faster ATA reset procedure
14:46:39LinusNgets my vote too
14:47:38*LinusN just tried X forwarding through a corkscrew tunnel, using XFree86 on cygwin - worked!
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14:52:37dwihnoLinusN: You left kronans for Leffes? :~~(
14:52:51*dwihno votes too!
15:08:26LinusN[IDC]Dragon: is this fixed?
15:09:01[IDC]Dragonnot by me...
15:09:42LinusNcan you try (you have flashed fmr)?
15:09:58[IDC]DragonHave mercy, I have this FM working since last weekend.
15:10:08[IDC]DragonYes, I can try.
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15:17:21xCThow do i remove a device which doesn't work
15:18:33Bagderunplug the usb, you never mounted it so it won't hurt
15:18:52xCTi'm talking about my busted dvd drive
15:19:10Bagderlots of broken things there, hey? ;-)
15:19:13xCTi can't read stuff from my cdrom drive because my dvd drive is set up as default
15:19:15xCTyeh :P
15:19:22xCTmy sound doesn't work either :D
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15:25:11mattzzLinusN: remember the problem with the short mp3 sound
15:26:01mattzzsinge mp3_play_data works
15:26:17mattzznormal playing does not
15:26:28mattzz(via rockbox "play")
15:26:39xCTthx for your help LinusN
15:26:41 Quit xCT ("Leaving")
15:27:05LinusNmattzz: not surprising
15:28:45mattzzLinusN: so why is that?
15:29:06LinusNwell, i don't know the reason, but i can imagine quite a few
15:31:23LinusNnot sure, but i think we had a minimum file size limit once
15:31:46LinusNgotta go now
15:31:58LinusNcu later maybe
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15:33:27Bagdergood afternoon
15:33:54quelsarukgood afternoon Bagder :)
15:34:18mattzzwhen exactly is the callback function from mp3_play_data called? when all data has been played or when all data has been transmitted to the MAS?
15:37:27[IDC]Dragonwhen the DMA ended.
15:37:43[IDC]DragonMeaning, when the data has been transferred to the MAS.
15:38:08[IDC]DragonThe MAS still has a little FiFo.
15:38:37[IDC]Dragon(But you should not be concerned.)
15:39:17mattzzwhen playing short sounds in a fast sequence I get only half the sound played
15:40:28[IDC]DragonHow are you sequencing them?
15:41:45mattzzI set a flag, call mp3_play_data, call mp3_play_pause(true). In the callback I clear the flag. As soon the flag is cleared, I repeat
15:41:45 Quit elinenbe (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
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15:42:50[IDC]Dragonfor seamless playback, you give it new data in the callback.
15:43:28mattzzyeah, but I need a certain timing. now it works... ;-) was somehow related to -vbr settings in lame
15:44:27[IDC]Dragonhow much jitter does your metronome have? Is it noticable?
15:44:52mattzznope, not to my ears ;-)
15:45:37[IDC]DragonOK. I was thinking about a timer interrupt to get it _really_ precise.
15:45:56[IDC]DragonThe video plugin does that for the regular screen refresh.
15:46:14[IDC]DragonBut it's ugly, I mess with the hardware directly.
15:46:47mattzzso we have some candidates for plugin.h?
15:47:05[IDC]Dragontimer registration, yes.
15:47:26[IDC]DragonCould be useful for games as well, so they can do their own scheduling.
15:53:08mattzzled() would be nice also
15:53:45[IDC]DragonNo, the LED is "owned" by the ATA driver.
15:55:15mattzzHm, so it is a bad idea to flash the LED with every "tock"?
15:55:44[IDC]Dragonstrictly speaking, it's the disk indicator.
16:00:06[IDC]DragonI'm going back to bed, not feeling well today (sick at home).
16:00:22quelsarukcu [IDC]Dragon
16:00:36 Quit [IDC]Dragon ()
16:05:56quelsarukBagder, the rvf conversion manual in the web is old, we have to add how to add audio to the video files :)
16:06:21mattzzgotta leave - cu
16:06:25 Quit mattzz ("Client exiting")
16:06:34quelsarukand the link to the tools is also out of date :)
16:06:44 Quit dgs (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
16:20:26Bagderfeel free to update
16:23:28quelsaruknext week then ;) my weekend starts today and wanted to go to the beach :P
16:32:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:33:00quelsaruktime to go! cu
16:33:22quelsarukBagder, is v. 2.2 released today?
16:33:55Bagderwe need to get a docs status update first
16:35:34quelsarukbut there's someone working on that, no?
16:35:49Bagderyes, presumably
16:36:34quelsarukif you need help, send me a mail and i'll work on that
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16:38:48 Quit quelsaruk ("i wonder if i could use rockbox on my windsurf board...")
16:55:53 Quit elinenbe (" HydraIRC rocks! -> <-")
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19:35:14 Quit hardeep ("[BX] Reserve your copy of BitchX-1.0c19 for the Apple Newton today!")
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21:14:37uskihi [IDC]Dragon
21:14:55uskiwazzup ? :)
21:15:11[IDC]Dragon2not too much
21:16:05[IDC]Dragon2LinusN: Lately I found that Rockbox happily writes to read-only files. Is that intentional?
21:16:56[IDC]Dragon2uski: I got a flu, not feeling well.
21:17:13uskihmmm take a rest then ;)
21:17:19uskistop crazily coding plugins for rockbox ;)
21:17:44[IDC]Dragon2it wasn't plugins, it was the ATA driver today
21:18:21uskiah :) and finally, did you find what caused the "bug" of your ATA speedup mods ? (IORDY problem or sth like that)
21:19:12[IDC]Dragon2boot speedup, yes. IORDY is a different story, with the fast sector reading not working for slow disks.
21:19:40[IDC]Dragon2the latter is unsolved
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21:29:36LinusN[IDC]Dragon2: we don't check the readonly attribute
21:30:25LinusNuski: it looks like it isn't the reading speed that is the problem
21:30:38LinusN[IDC]Dragon2: maybe i should fix that
21:30:46LinusNwant me to kick [IDC]Dragon?
21:31:00[IDC]Dragon2yes, kick me!
21:31:17[IDC]Dragon2my s/m tendencies are coming through
21:31:21Mode"#rockbox +o LinusN " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
21:31:32Kick(#rockbox [IDC]Dragon :LinusN) by LinusN!
21:31:42LinusNFEEEL THE POWER!
21:32:30[IDC]Dragon2strange, I fail to rename myself
21:32:55 Nick [IDC]Dragon2 is now known as [IDC]Dragon3 (
21:33:15LinusNmuch better :-)
21:33:31[IDC]Dragon3I can rename, but not to my usual nick
21:33:40LinusNtry to leave and come back
21:34:03 Quit [IDC]Dragon3 ()
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21:36:05[IDC]DragonLinusN: do we store the file attributes?
21:37:07[IDC]DragonAnyway, probably leave it like that.
21:37:25[IDC]DragonElse the next person wants an option to change attr
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21:38:04LinusNexactly my thought too
21:38:16LinusN(network problems)
21:39:12 Quit SillyFly ("ChatZilla 0.9.59 [Mozilla rv:1.7a/20040218]")
21:40:16uski(fyi, it is normal that after kicking a ghost from the channel you can't get back to your nick)
21:40:55uski(because the ghost is still connected to the server, and the nicknames are the same for all the server; the best thing to do is to register your nick so you can do /ns ghost <nick> <password>)
21:41:12uski(it will then kill the ghost "globally" and you can recover your nick immediatly :))
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21:51:01LinusN[IDC]Dragon: i reflashed the blleding edge, and the boot works just fine (although it isn't that much faster than before)
22:00:15 Quit mecraw__ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:03:42 Quit wake ("run off to work")
22:04:08[IDC]Dragonjust got back from the phone
22:04:36uskiis it safe to flash a bleeding edge right now ?
22:04:37[IDC]DragonLinusN: how long to resume music, if you have resume to "always"?
22:05:02[IDC]Dragonuski: it's always safe ;)
22:05:28uskilol :)
22:05:28uskii see ;)
22:05:31uskilet's flash then
22:05:50[IDC]Dragonbuild/uclpack first
22:07:12[IDC]Dragonthe bleeding edge download doesn't include a .ucl
22:07:24LinusN[IDC]Dragon: about 4s
22:07:36[IDC]Dragonpretty good
22:07:41LinusNnice indeed
22:07:51[IDC]Dragonmine takes ~4.5 sec
22:08:09[IDC]Dragonbefore it was 2.5 sec more, but you know that
22:08:33[IDC]DragonI hope it works for everybody, will write a posting tomorrow
22:09:12[IDC]Dragon(when the daily build is out)
22:09:37uskihmm i meant download, not flash
22:09:37uskiunfortunately i can't flash
22:09:37uskidamn my errors are reflecting what i am dreaming of ;)
22:13:26 Quit uski ("Fermeture du client")
22:14:18[IDC]DragonLinusN: may I ask a completely differnt question, about mp3 frames?
22:14:23 Quit methangas (" HydraIRC -> <- \o/")
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23:38:55LinusN[IDC]Dragon: i'm here now, sorry about the delay
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23:52:31LinusNtime to sleep
23:52:33LinusNnite all
23:52:36 Part LinusN
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