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#rockbox log for 2004-04-13

00:00:13Bagderhardeep's patch adds an #ifdef in the generated source it produces
00:00:58Bagderthe generated source is put in the build dir for the particular target you build for
00:01:27BCwell it certainly no longer GPFs :)
00:01:38amiconnOoops. Apparently I did not look at it closely enough...
00:02:07BagderI think it looks fine
00:02:14Bagderbut then I don't run the win32 sim ;-)
00:03:20BCSo what is the "correct" (?) way to get the root dir problem solved do you think?
00:04:01BagderBC: the exact same way the x11 sim already does, by expecting an 'archos' directory to be present and use that as archos root dir
00:04:16BCI will go hunting now....
00:04:23Bagdersee the file.h/io.c files in x11/
00:04:31Bagderand compare with the file.c/io.c files in win32
00:04:36BCthanks :)
00:04:55BCerrrrr, why has sourceforge stopped recognising "
00:05:18amiconnBagder: The problem that the Win32 sim stumbled upon was that the font structures were declared "const" since Linus' patch. The Rockbox code then memcpy()s _to_ these structures.
00:06:16Bagderhow silly ;-)
00:07:25Bagderbut then it should be fixed now
00:07:32amiconnYes - this is certainly something that the Win32 sim (as well as me!) doesn't expect for a _const_
00:07:33Bagdersince the const is gone for the sim
00:07:53amiconnI wonder why Linus did that patch.
00:08:47BCwow - a LOT more work has been done on the X11Sim !!
00:09:00Bagdersurprise surprise! ;-)
00:10:53Bagderwell, historicly we've been more people who have used and poked on the X11 one
00:15:14Bagdersleep time
00:15:17 Quit Bagder ("")
00:37:06 Join hardeep [0] (1098@
00:53:02 Join diddystar5 [0] (
00:53:27BCdiddymoon :)
00:53:44BC(darn wrong celestial body)
00:57:40 Join top_bloke [0] (
01:49:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:10:50 Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:19:36 Part amiconn
02:41:45diddystar5bye bye
02:42:17diddystar5byeb ye
02:42:49 Quit diddystar5 ("Leaving")
03:49:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:00:28 Part BC
04:00:29 Quit top_bloke (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
04:10:06 Join BC [0] (
04:11:02 Join AciD [0] (
04:30:01 Join scott666_ [0] (
04:30:17BCscott, say hi, when ur free
04:30:26 Nick scott666_ is now known as scott666 (
04:34:44 Quit hardeep ("BitchX: shaken, not stirred")
04:42:25 Quit elinenbe (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
05:02:29 Quit jkerman (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
05:16:33 Quit AciD (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
05:45:39 Join JohnnyDemocracy [0] (
05:48:23 Join jkerman [0] (
05:48:45JohnnyDemocracyis anyone having problems running the vbs script?
05:48:54 Quit jkerman (Client Quit)
05:48:58 Join jkerman [0] (
05:49:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:51:31BCsorry dont use it
05:54:11JohnnyDemocracyi ran it prior to the format change to .tbx and it worked
05:54:37JohnnyDemocracythen i redownloaded the new one Jorg linked to and its says its corrupt
06:18:10JohnnyDemocracyhmmm seems the script doesnt want to rename .dirname.mp3 to .tbx
06:30:51JohnnyDemocracyhmm works now on all but one mp3 folder
06:50:41 Quit scott666 ("i'll be back...eventually...")
07:06:36 Quit JohnnyDemocracy ()
07:32:37 Join Douche_Nutz [0] (apemanttt@
07:32:44Douche_Nutzhi is anyone here?
07:34:02BCam now
07:34:21 Join AwishStar [0] (
07:34:31Douche_Nutzcould you help me update my archos? after flashing version 2.1 im having trouble getting 2.2 loaded
07:34:45BCnever done a flash, sorry
07:35:06Douche_Nutzi dont want to flash it again but im wondering if i just need to run a ucl file or something...
07:35:13Douche_Nutzno clue though?
07:35:35BCif u r not flashing, then just put the new f/w in root :)
07:35:38AwishStarcan anyone help me? somehow my FM Rec is missing 2GB.
07:35:56Douche_Nutzi think thats normal actually
07:36:13BCjust reporting errors
07:36:15Douche_Nutznah i have to do more than put the firmware in the root
07:36:23BCtoo many different ways to work it out
07:36:37BCDN: hmmm, that must be a post-flashed thing
07:37:17BCa thinking noise
07:37:23Douche_Nutzyeah it is... it sucks... ill read through the manual again though... thanks for trying
07:37:41BCim very very surprised that jorg did that
07:37:47BCnot his normal style at all
07:38:29Douche_Nutzdid what?
07:38:43BCthe thing that sucks
07:38:56BCneed more toast - brb
07:49:07***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:51:27BCbtw - i trust douche means something else locally to you - lol
07:59:13 Quit AwishStar ("Leaving")
08:01:53Douche_Nutzanyone else here besides bc? :)
08:02:42BC:P ;)
08:11:08 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (
08:11:30[IDC]Dragonsomebody called?
08:11:39BCgood morning squire :)
08:12:15[IDC]Dragon(had to look that up)
08:12:27BClol - ur welcome :)
08:12:49[IDC]DragonDouche_Nutz: what's your problem?
08:22:33Douche_Nutzupgrading to version 2.2 after flashing with v 2.1
08:22:37 Join amiconn [0] (
08:23:14[IDC]DragonDouche_Nutz: play a .ucl to upgrade
08:23:33Douche_Nutzit gives me an error: "incompatible version"
08:23:55[IDC]Dragonthen your plugins don't match
08:24:28Douche_Nutzive made sure i copied over the .rockbox directory so shouldnt they?
08:24:35[IDC]Dragondownload the version you want (including plugins), play the .ajz torun it first, then play the .ucl
08:25:04 Join matsl [0] (
08:25:10Douche_Nutzokay one other question... does version to have a .rockbox folder with the plugins or a ROCKS folder?
08:26:06Douche_Nutzi had been forgetting to run the .ajz file...
08:28:08[IDC]Dragonu r welcome
09:12:10 Nick amiconn is now known as amiconn|away (
09:13:28 Quit [IDC]Dragon ()
09:34:42 Join LinusN [200] (
09:35:26 Quit Douche_Nutz (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
09:48:09 Join pfavr [0] (
09:49:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:50:18 Quit pfavr (Client Quit)
10:08:15 Part BC
10:12:33 Join ropodika [0] (
10:12:44ropodikaanyone around?
10:12:58ropodikanot really rockbox related question!
10:13:30ropodikahey :)
10:13:45ropodikathe usb drivers keep locking up windows
10:13:49ropodikait's driving me crazy
10:14:10ropodikafor the jukebox 6000
10:15:36LinusNwhich windows?
10:15:41LinusNwhich drivers?
10:16:25ropodikaUSB Storage Adapter V2 (TPP)
10:16:32ropodikabut they are all bad
10:16:39ropodikai've always had problems
10:17:01LinusNyou tried the Cypress drivers?
10:18:02ropodikahmm nope
10:18:20ropodikaany idea where i can find them?
10:19:04LinusNon the cypress site, but the latest won't work with the Studio/Player
10:19:09LinusNgive me two minutes
10:19:25ropodikaawesome, thanks
10:21:04ropodikaYou don't have permission to access / on this server.
10:21:13LinusNcypress is the manufacturer of the USB chip in the Archos
10:21:51LinusNtry again
10:22:08ropodikahope this works
10:22:11LinusNme too
10:22:28ropodikai originally installed the drivers on the archos cd
10:22:31ropodikawhich now doesn't work
10:22:39LinusNbroken cd?
10:22:43ropodikawhen i try to install the v2 drivers
10:22:53ropodikait just reboots xp
10:23:09*LinusN goes to fill his coffee cup
10:24:15 Nick c0utta{work} is now known as c0utta (
10:24:52 Nick c0utta is now known as c0utta{afk} (
10:24:57 Join bzzt____ [0] (
10:25:04bzzt____did it again
10:25:14bzzt____i've deleted every file
10:25:21bzzt____it installs
10:25:29bzzt____i don't know why it's rebooting
10:25:40LinusNbzzt____: huh?
10:25:41bzzt____unless i'm missing one
10:26:16bzzt____<−− ropodika
10:26:40LinusNyou want to kick ropodika?
10:26:57Mode"#rockbox +o LinusN " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
10:27:11bzzt____yeah if you can
10:27:15bzzt____should time out soon
10:27:21Kick(#rockbox ropodika :LinusN) by LinusN!
10:27:52bzzt____i delete all the tpp*.* files from my windows
10:27:55LinusNdo you have any other usb devices on the bus?
10:27:58bzzt____plus the oem*.inf
10:28:05bzzt____just a mouse
10:28:33 Join Douche_Nutz [0] (apemanttt@
10:28:36LinusNso it reboots when you install the drivers?
10:29:03LinusNthat sux
10:29:12bzzt____i usually have problems when i start the archos
10:29:15bzzt____where it might reboot
10:29:23LinusNit == the pc?
10:29:25bzzt____but never when i'm trying to install the drivers
10:29:40bzzt____well it happens on my work pc as well
10:29:43bzzt____and my other pc
10:29:54LinusNsame pc hardware?
10:29:57bzzt____but never when i try to install
10:30:04bzzt____nah completely different machines
10:30:24bzzt____my work on is a dell/intel with win2k
10:30:30LinusNto be honest, i don't think i have used my Player with XP
10:30:54LinusNi have used it with W2K without probs
10:36:29 Nick amiconn|away is now known as amiconn|work (
10:36:45bzzt____i have a lot of problems, no idea why :(
10:36:59bzzt____ok, deleted every reference in the registry
10:37:06bzzt____lemme reboot and try this again
10:37:08 Quit bzzt____ ("*")
10:37:58LinusNamiconn|work: i did the const patch because i didn't like that the (constant) font data had to be copied to the data segment at boot, for no reason
10:38:57LinusNthere was no real problem having it like before
10:39:07 Join pfavr [0] (
10:39:21LinusNi didn't think the simulators would choke on it, and the builds were all green
11:21:57 Join Nando [0] (
11:22:11NandoHi Folks
11:23:01NandoIs there somebody who'd perfectly know how to intall the voice function on a jb fm recorder ?
11:24:09LinusNtalking menus is easy
11:24:20LinusNtalking directory names involves some work
11:24:21Nandowell i have some troubles with it
11:24:35NandoI talk about menus
11:24:46NandoI've successfully installed the rockbox features
11:24:53dwihnoHow is the talking menues btw?
11:25:09dwihnoIt says "sound configuration"
11:25:48NandoActually I can't hear anything
11:26:00NandoIs there a special configuration to follow
11:26:15Nandoin a particular menu ?
11:26:19LinusNfirst of all, you need to download and install a voice file
11:26:30NandoThat's done
11:26:40NandoI dl the last english voice
11:27:27LinusNand put it in .rockbox/langs/english.voice?
11:27:35Nandoyess I did
11:28:01LinusNthen you want to make sure that the talking menus are enabled in the settings
11:28:08LinusNand that you have the latest daily build
11:28:28NandoHow is it possible to make such a thing ?
11:28:42LinusNthe settings?
11:29:00NandoWell, I tried to verifiy it in the General Settings menus
11:29:24Nandobut I did not see anything about voices parmaeters ther'e
11:29:36Nandosorry : parameters / there
11:29:46LinusNGeneral Settings->voice->voice menus should be "yes"
11:30:05LinusNare you really running the latest daily build?
11:30:18NandoI only have Playback, File View, Display, System, Bookmarking, Language
11:30:33NandoI think so
11:30:39LinusNgo to info->version
11:30:53Nandorockbox 2.2
11:31:01LinusNthat is not the latest daily build
11:31:09LinusNthat is version 2.2
11:31:48NandoWell I feel a bit stupid now ....
11:31:56 Quit Douche_Nutz (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
11:32:08NandoThx U so much
11:32:12LinusNyou're welcome
11:32:28NandoU guys are really making an amazing and great work
11:34:20 Join Christof [0] (~Christof@
11:34:27Christofchoquer alors 'l'ai ai po mise ^^
11:34:55LinusNsalut :-)
11:35:02Christofouha ca cause francais ^^
11:35:20NandoJ'ai la rage là : je pensais pô que vous étiez français les gars ...
11:35:42Christofy'en a qui savent démonter un jukebox player 10Go?
11:35:52Christofsalut à tous d'abord (ro la politesse tout de même)
11:36:38LinusNChristof: regarde ici:
11:37:06Christofyeah ca rock's (j'avais po assez fouillé ^^)
11:37:09LinusN(and please stick to english next time)
11:38:30Christofsorry -_-"
11:38:46pfavrTalking menus: what a cool feature! Can't wait to try it:-)
11:38:56LinusNit rocks
11:40:05pfavrare you using speech synthesis to create the voice files or is it recorded?
11:42:45Christofon the website, it is not shown how to remove the hd... is it a classic nap?
11:46:02LinusNpfavr: speech synthesis
11:46:42LinusNChristof: just lift the far end and pull it out
11:47:08 Quit Nando (" Dernier cri !! mirc traduit entièrement en français ! Disponible sur ! n'hésitez pas !")
11:48:01Christofmmm ok. I thought it was soldered
11:48:23LinusNah, no it isn't
11:49:10ChristofI didn't want to breack it more ^^"
11:49:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:50:45LinusNChristof: you can check here too:
11:51:45Christofwoo tk
12:21:27 Nick c0utta{afk} is now known as c0utta (
12:21:59c0uttaLinus, you are a man of few words
12:34:00LinusNc0utta: yes i am, most often when i'm busy or in a hurry
12:34:12LinusNi assume you mean my reply to your email
12:35:50c0uttayou must be busy as i don't see you that often
12:36:19LinusNi was away on vacation the last week
12:36:35c0uttaare you rested ?
12:36:48LinusNguess not :-)
12:37:46c0uttaas i wrote, i have been looking at many of the requirements for f2/f3
12:38:07c0uttaone of the major problems is the structure of tree.c
12:38:40c0uttawith respect to daniel of course
12:38:56LinusNthe current menu structure sucks big time imho
12:39:49c0uttai agree - i'd love to consolidate menu and tree together - they form the same basic function
12:39:59c0uttafrom an interface perspective
12:40:02 Join Douche_Nutz [0] (apemanttt@
12:40:31c0uttahow familiar are you with tree.c or is it all bagders work ?
12:40:53LinusNlots of people have worked on tree.c, me included
12:41:23c0uttathere are no comments - it's very hard to work it out
12:41:33 Quit Christof (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12:42:21LinusNc0utta: yeah, it's not all that obvious
12:42:22c0uttafor bookmark functions i need to know the currently highlighted item (either file or directory)
12:43:00LinusNlook at how onplay() is called
12:43:40c0uttai already have - it's very tightly integrated with dirbrowse
12:44:15LinusNi was about to create a tree_current_item() function once, but i never did
12:46:11c0uttai assume it'd be dircache[dircursor+dirstart].name
12:46:35 Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection)
12:46:51LinusNyes, but that's only the file/dir name without the path
12:47:06c0uttai noticed that too
12:47:33c0uttatoo many undocumented statics
13:21:25amiconn|work<LinusN> amiconn|work: i did the const patch because i didn't like that the (constant) font data had to be copied to the data segment at boot, for no reason
13:22:14amiconn|workIf the font data is really const, why is there memcpy()'ing to it?
13:22:25LinusNin the simulator?
13:24:07amiconn|workIn both the simulator and the target; hardeep found that this was the root of the problem. The target has no memory protection, so it causes no problems there.
13:25:15LinusNholy cow, i didn't remember that the font data is only half-baked
13:26:34LinusNi guess i'll just revert that "fix"
13:28:58 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (
13:29:48amiconn|workHi Jörg!
13:30:03[IDC]DragonHey, tunneling from work works
13:30:42[IDC]DragonI found an open IRC CGI client
13:30:56[IDC]DragonLinusN: are you there?
13:31:10amiconn|workJust wanna tell you that I ordered TextAloud along with Natural Voices and one German voice.
13:31:44LinusN[IDC]Dragon: i'm here
13:31:55[IDC]Dragonwelcome back
13:32:17[IDC]Dragonhave you seen my attempts to delete a dir?
13:32:30LinusNamiconn|work: i reverted my silly const hack
13:32:35amiconn|workThe oder will take a while to execute, since delivery takes place directly from the US, but you can expect me to build german.voice in about 2 weeks or so.
13:32:41LinusN[IDC]Dragon: didn't look closely
13:33:10[IDC]DragonI hope you can, sometime, no rush
13:33:15LinusNamiconn|work: i think you can start right away with festival with mbrola german voices
13:33:35amiconn|workLinusN: No Linux here.
13:34:04LinusNfestival/mbrola doesn't sound nearly as good as the AT&T and Microsoft voices though
13:34:15LinusNbut they are free
13:34:22[IDC]Dragonnot even as MS?
13:34:40LinusNsounds quite 80's to me :-)
13:35:42LinusNwell, it's not *that* bad, but you get pretty spoiled with the AT&T voices
13:35:58[IDC]DragonLinusN: I did some experiment to solve the breaks if aborting speech, switching clips
13:36:07LinusNany progress?
13:36:08amiconn|workThe oder wasn't that expensive: € 83,- total including priority shipping.
13:36:36[IDC]DragonI now make a log about what's been passed to the MAS, later dump it into a file
13:36:52[IDC]Dragoninteresting outcome:
13:37:20[IDC]Dragonthe frame struct is OK, Winamp can play it nicely, but the AJB can't.
13:37:44[IDC]DragonThere must be something more than disabling bit reservoir
13:38:38LinusNdo you have a file i can examine?
13:39:14[IDC]Dragonmaybe the MAS doesn't like my single frames I inject
13:39:42[IDC]DragonMenawhile, they have a different sample rate than the voice file
13:40:58[IDC]DragonI can fix that and try again
13:41:30amiconn|work[IDC]Dragon: I would also be interested in your dump file (would look at it this evening).
13:42:29[IDC]DragonI'll make a package later, not now.
13:44:05amiconn|work[IDC]Dragon: You mentioned an open CGI IRC client. Could you tell me about?
13:44:14 Quit Douche_Nutz (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:44:29[IDC]Dragonbetter not publicly
13:46:08LinusN[IDC]Dragon: why don't you tunnel the irc as well, instead of a cgi hack?
13:46:34[IDC]Dragonbecause I don't know web magic
13:46:48[IDC]Dragondo you need an outside client?
13:46:55LinusN[IDC]Dragon: i don't think switching sample rate is a wise thing
13:47:19LinusN[IDC]Dragon: do you have a proxy at work?
13:47:26[IDC]Dragonweb technology
13:47:35[IDC]Dragonproxy, yes
13:47:38LinusNirc has nothing to do with the web
13:47:50[IDC]Dragonbut with port blocks
13:48:21LinusNi use corkscrew combined with ssh to tunnel through a proxy
13:49:00[IDC]Dragonswitching the sample rate isn't really intended, was just that this spacer frame matched an older sample rate
13:49:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:49:17LinusNi have an ssh server listening on port 443 at the office
13:49:46LinusNthat is the default https port, rarely blocked by a proxy
13:50:11[IDC]DragonI guess must but http is blocked from here
13:50:23LinusNi then ssh through the proxy with corkscrew
13:50:35LinusNhttps is blocked as well? i don't believe you
13:50:56[IDC]DragonI know ssh but no corkscrew
13:52:00[IDC]Dragonwhat does ssh help me?
13:52:10LinusNit can do port forwarding
13:53:01[IDC]DragonSo I can use any IRC client, it catches the ports traffic, tunnels it through https port?
13:53:07LinusNso you can map a remote irc port to a local port
13:53:35LinusNyou need a remote machine with a ssh server on port 443
13:53:55[IDC]Dragonbut how can freenode handle traffic on https port?
13:54:00LinusNthen you can tunne any port you want
13:54:24[IDC]Dragonso I do need a prepared remote machine?
13:55:04[IDC]DragonI would have to leave my PC on, with DynDNS or such?
13:55:13[IDC]Dragonhome PC, I mean
13:55:58LinusNthat's a solution
13:56:18[IDC]DragonI think I prefer this one, standalone
13:56:33LinusNas long as it works for you
13:57:07[IDC]DragonI thought you have a solution that needs no outside translator
13:57:27LinusNas a consultant, i roam from place to place, and it's nice, almost essential, to be able to access my IMAP, IRC, SSH etc from anywhere
13:57:43LinusNcorkscrew/ssh helps me with that
13:57:45[IDC]Dragonyou have haxx
13:58:04LinusNhaxx is just a side project
13:58:21LinusNi work at Contactor
13:58:50[IDC]Dragondo you know CGIIRC ?
13:59:27LinusN ?
13:59:37[IDC]Dragonyou could put it to the rockbox site, if nobody minds the traffic
13:59:43[IDC]Dragonyes, that one.
14:00:15[IDC]Dragonyou can tailor the login to allow only "allowed" servers and channels
14:00:51[IDC]Dragonso anybody can use rockbox IRC with a web browser
14:01:09LinusNfood for thoughts
14:01:37[IDC]Dragonmunch, munch
14:01:41LinusNhehe, maybe it's not desired to let "anybody" in
14:02:03[IDC]Dragonyou can also restrict it
14:02:09LinusNthe irc has slowly become more of a support hit line than a tech talk channel
14:02:16[IDC]Dragone.g. to group subscribers
14:02:17LinusNhot line
14:02:38[IDC]Dragonlike the group
14:03:02LinusNit's inevitable as the number of users increase
14:03:31[IDC]Dragonas the units age, it's dcreasing again
14:04:16LinusNof course
14:07:01dwihnoContact0r! :D
14:14:24c0uttahey Jörg
14:16:24c0uttais it possible to insert a "beep" when using fast-forward or rewind ?
14:16:34c0uttato indicate minutes ?
14:17:08LinusNc0utta: yes
14:17:34c0uttajust interested, that's all
14:17:39LinusNhowever, it is a bit complicated due to the internal workings of the mp3 playback
14:18:20c0uttai'll steer clear of mp3 playback
14:18:55c0utta<LinusN> the irc has slowly become more of a support hit line than a tech talk channel
14:19:13LinusNc0utta: yes?
14:19:30c0uttalater rockbox features are really not for the uninitiated
14:19:43LinusNabsolutely not
14:19:47c0uttavideo and voice seem to be the bulk of the activity
14:20:10LinusNi'm referring to the "my jukebox won't start" and the "i can't install rockbox" questions
14:20:37LinusNand the "i can't make the voice work"
14:20:40c0uttai answer the "help me flash my box" type of questions
14:23:12[IDC]DragonI have to write some kind of voice doc
14:23:33c0uttait's hard when you're still developing
14:23:57[IDC]Dragonguess I caused all that support effort
14:24:12c0uttait's worth it
14:24:14LinusNat least the video stuff :-)
14:24:23LinusNlots of talk about that
14:24:30[IDC]Dragonflash, video, voice: sounds familiar
14:24:44[IDC]Dragonvideo has some doc
14:24:57c0uttathe blind guys are certainly excited about voice
14:25:09[IDC]Dragonbut there's a new way of conversion coming up now
14:25:22c0uttamore support :)
14:25:30[IDC]Dragonthe blinds post like crazy, yes
14:25:37LinusN[IDC]Dragon: how about adding a codec for transcode?
14:26:35[IDC]DragonI read the magic Linux word in there, calling for somebody else
14:27:15[IDC]DragonDirectShow is the way to do it in Microsoft
14:27:34[IDC]Dragonand I happened to be familiar with it
14:28:27LinusNof course
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14:44:23c0uttalinus, according to newkeys, pressing f1 to exit the f1 menu is no longer valid. am i correct ?
14:45:33LinusNwe have discussed that, and we think it is ok to leave the menu with the same key that entered it
14:47:53c0uttaexit top level f1 menu with f1/left/off - too many keys imho
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14:48:58LinusNah, yes
14:49:19LinusNi don't think Left should leave the top menu
14:49:50c0uttai'll leave as is
14:50:05c0uttai thought bagder was going to put newkeys into the docs ?
14:52:19[IDC]Dragonspeaking about keys: is there a particular function to the Off key in the dir browser?
14:52:30LinusNyes and no
14:52:42LinusNif you press OFF in the root, it stops the music
14:53:09LinusNfor some reason
14:53:15[IDC]Dragonbesides stopping music, I mean (only in root?)
14:53:40LinusNhowever, the Player models have a different case
14:53:56LinusNthe stop key is used to leave the directory
14:54:04LinusNthere is no off key on the player
14:54:04[IDC]Dragonyea, they lack the key
14:54:38[IDC]Dragonthe blind folks were asking to have a spell function with Off
14:54:55LinusNsaw that
14:55:09[IDC]Dragoncurrently, it says it again because of a side effect
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14:55:36[IDC]Dragonsome redraw variable gets set with Off, dunno why
14:55:48LinusNtree.c is a mess
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14:59:28c0uttatree.c tries to buffer the parent directory, doesn't it ?
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15:01:00LinusNc0utta: no
15:01:54c0uttaso it rereads each directory as they are entered ?
15:02:56c0uttaput tree.c on my list of things to do
15:05:06c0uttai'll rewrite tree.c one day soon
15:05:36LinusNfor what reason?
15:06:08c0uttabecause it's a mess
15:06:16LinusNyes it is
15:06:37LinusNi just hope you're not trying to do some extra buffering
15:06:58c0uttai haven't touched tree.c yet, so you're safe
15:07:50dwihnoI think the 8 meg models should be able to keep a dir cache in-mem :)
15:08:01dwihno(software wise)
15:08:23dwihnoand as soon as I've bribed Linus to do the mod, I'll start Writing The Code Myself (tm) :)
15:09:26LinusNdwihno: any time, but you'll have to attend the devcon
15:10:43c0uttahow do you debug patches ?
15:10:59c0uttaHunk #1 FAILED at 20.
15:11:01c0utta1 out of 1 hunk FAILED −− saving rejects to file action.h.rej
15:11:27pfavrLinusN, devcon? for rockbox-developers? when, where?
15:11:37LinusNpfavr: some day...
15:11:42LinusNno plans
15:11:55LinusNwe've been talking about it for ages
15:11:57[IDC]Dragonin Hannover
15:12:08LinusNhehe, Stockholm
15:13:22pfavrWell, our apartment could house a few... how many developers fit into 75m2 ?
15:13:35[IDC]Dragondevcon for what? Rockbox is done, more or less?
15:13:57LinusNpfavr: about 75 :-)
15:13:58[IDC]Dragonunless you port it
15:14:11pfavr[IDC]Dragon, a get-together then - celebrating the success of rockbox...
15:14:24LinusNdevcon is purely for the fun of it
15:14:44pfavr[IDC]Dragon, you could bring some german beer...
15:14:54[IDC]Dragonah, I've heard about that "fun" thing
15:15:24pfavrLinusN, need a larger switch then...
15:16:27LinusNpfavr: no 802.11?
15:17:33pfavrLinusN, well, actually no real Internet right now. On dialup. But I could rig up my laptop to serve us all sharing the 56K modem on wireless...
15:18:22pfavrLinusN, hope to get real net access soon. Been sharing my neighbour's ADSL two floors below through wireless.
15:18:47pfavrLinusN, but he has been upgrading to get the 26MBit up/down - and it is still not working...
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15:25:47LinusNpfavr: then mine or daniels place may be better, with 802.11g
15:26:54pfavrLinusN, but your guys are so busy (I think) so it will probably be next year or something;-)
15:27:07LinusNnot necessarily
15:27:51dwihnoLinusN: Whoa... The DEVCON! :O
15:29:40[IDC]Dragonwhat's the best time to visut sweden as a tourist?
15:30:03pfavrit is nice weather in stockholm today
15:31:03[IDC]Dragonseriously, I've never been to scandinavia. But it's on the list.
15:31:09LinusNmid summer or mid winter, i'd say
15:31:23[IDC]DragonI take the summer then
15:31:47[IDC]Dragonunless there's moscitos
15:32:46[IDC]Dragonmosquito, I mean
15:32:47LinusNstay away from the northern parts then :-)
15:35:28[IDC]Dragonso it's either freezing or mosquito-pested there?
15:35:51LinusNi said northern part
15:35:54pfavrIt is sunny! not a single cloud in the sky right now!
15:36:06pfavr(and no mosquitos)
15:36:34[IDC]Dragonthere=northern, I guess it's otherwise nice to go there?
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16:06:17dwihnoLinusN: Are there any plans for DevCon?
16:06:39dwihnoI got a ton of (mostly bad) ideas I'd love to share :)
16:08:23LinusNno plans, but i'll have a talk with the guys
16:08:37LinusNit's been far too long since the last one
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16:17:20dwihnoIndeed! :)
16:17:34amiconn|work[IDC]Dragon: I tried my idea to speed up grayscale by loop unrolling yesterday. Since it gave no big speedup (only ~6 %), I reverted it.
16:18:07amiconn|workToday I will try putting the core routine into IRAM and see how much that helps.
16:22:48[IDC]Dragonamiconn|work: I guessed what you wanted to unroll (the 32 planes handling), but didn't see why this should be a big gain
16:25:16amiconn|workBecause it saves one cmp/hi and one bt instruction (total of 4 clock cycles) for each unrolled block.
16:25:58[IDC]Dragon4 of how many?
16:26:24Nibblerand: 6% is 6%, why revert it if the work is done already?
16:26:44amiconn|workIn my latest version: total of 11 or 12 clocks per loop.
16:27:15amiconn|workNibbler: because it significantly increased code size.
16:27:28[IDC]Dragonhmm, then the gain could be higher. Probably the runtime is governed by the DRAM access.
16:27:41amiconn|work11 or 12 clocks per loop _without_ DRAM page misses, that is.
16:28:26amiconn|workYes, the problem is obviously that there are 4 page misses in each loop iteration.
16:28:41Nibblerthis is grayscale stuff u talking about?
16:28:51amiconn|workThat's why I think that putting it into IRAM should gain much more speed.
16:28:54amiconn|workNibbler: yes
16:29:19Nibblergreyscale is only used for video, or also in normal mode...=
16:30:23amiconn|workIt's not used for normal mode (yet), but I've prepared a framework to use it in plugins, e.g. games. I annouced it on the ml.
16:31:23Nibblerhow is this greyscale stuff done?
16:31:32Nibblerswitching pixels on/off all the time?
16:32:45amiconn|workYes. An interrupt routine flips through several pages (I call them bitplanes) with 67 fps.
16:34:49Nibbleri need to get my jukebox fixed, have to see that :]
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16:50:13Snifffurti have a little question about the Harddrive Controller of the AJB FM-Rec?
16:51:28SnifffurtHow big hard drive can it adress. I know that Fat32 has a Gig Limitation. But I want to do a 2nd partition. So I'm just wondering if anyone knows?
16:51:54Snifffurtwill it fit a 60GB Drive?
16:53:24amiconn|workSnifffurt: Yes, the only restriction is that the USB chip doesn't handle the 48 bit ATA extension, so the limit is 128 GB.
16:53:50Snifffurtk. Thanks for the info amiconn
16:54:40amiconn|workYou can even format the whole disk as a single FAT32 partition (there is no lower limit), only that WinXP wouldn't allow you to do so.
16:55:08amiconn|workWinXP has a "designed" limit of 32GB for FAT32.
16:55:16Snifffurthow do I make this partition?
16:55:33SnifffurtPartition Magic
16:55:55amiconn|workWin9x, Linux, or partition handling tools (e.g. Partition Magic).
16:55:56dwihnoThere's some demo version of partition manager
16:56:00SnifffurtOr linux fdisk
16:56:02dwihnoit'll do it
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16:56:41Snifffurtbut can winXP handle this over 32Gig fat32 Partition?
16:56:55SnifffurtI mean, can I read and write it?
16:57:01Snifffurtcoolll. :-)
16:58:07SnifffurtI m straight away off to dissasamble my Jukebox... :-)
16:59:50[IDC]DragonLinus, did your menu code cleanup break restoring the position if stepping back one menu?
17:04:04[IDC]DragonSnifffurt: You can use Paragon to format, the free eval. version is sufficient for the job
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17:13:14SnifffurtI think I will use Knoppix -> Cfdisk... and mkfat32
17:13:25Snifffurtthis should do as far as I know
17:14:43Snifffurtthanks dragon
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18:52:29[IDC]DragonHey, the guy who has no time for hacking
18:52:56mattzzhehe ;-)
18:53:09mattzzjust setting up my irc gateway
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18:53:26[IDC]Dragonuse CGIIRC
18:53:44mattzzIDC, I am, I am....
18:53:52[IDC]Dragonah, ok
18:54:03mattzzThis one was a peace of cake so far
18:54:23[IDC]Dragonshould I test it?
18:54:57mattzzJust have to find a way to tell you privately...
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18:56:01simedo you know where I can fix my archos studio 20 in canada?
18:56:51simewhen i move the hearphone plug in the sound jack,it seems to get shorted and powers off by itself
18:57:01simeI dont wnat to open it :/
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19:10:52simeanybody knows?
19:11:26mattzz[IDC]Dragon: OK you can start a test
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19:12:21amiconnSo many dragons...
19:12:39mattzzFinally, there is the clone so many people wished to have ;-)
19:13:03[IDC]DragonMy alter ego has no input line
19:13:19mattzzat the very bottom?
19:14:20 Quit [IDC]Dragon2 (Client Quit)
19:14:28[IDC]Dragonthe layout goes strange
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19:15:38[IDC]Dragonafter entering one line, it goes away
19:15:50[IDC]Dragonand the line doesn't show up
19:16:44mattzz[IDC]Dragon: Hm, just did a dial-up to the company for a IE test. Works fine with IE 5
19:17:36 Quit [IDC]Dragon2 (Client Quit)
19:17:59mattzzHm, maybe we should change to #test... sorry
19:18:31[IDC]Dragonthere's no other traffic to disturb here ;)
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19:19:51[IDC]Dragonsame symptom, all the time.
19:20:02mattzz[IDC]Dragon: what browser?
19:20:08simeI really can shake the device... it powers off only when i hit the headphones plug in the sound jack
19:20:16[IDC]DragonIE 5.5
19:20:47[IDC]Dragonmaybe because of your font config?
19:20:56mattzz[IDC]Dragon: You can chose different themes and fonts
19:22:29[IDC]DragonIt says "Error on page." when I click on tools or help.
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19:23:36mattzz[IDC]Dragon: hm, just checked from the company's terminalserver with IE 5.5
19:25:32[IDC]DragonWhere my input line should be, I see a small stripe of the login again.
19:26:05[IDC]DragonBut fine if it works for you.
19:26:17mattzz[IDC]Dragon: When was your last reboot - ahem - .... ?
19:26:29[IDC]Dragonthis morning
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19:30:02[IDC]DragonI give up
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19:38:40simeanybody who may just say... sorry we can't help you?
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20:20:50mattzzIs up to date with respect to the latest changes in main_menu.c ???
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20:28:27Nibblerwhats this voice stuff about?
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21:48:49pagani just got a fm recorder and i need some help here guys :)
21:49:02paganit truncates my filenames to 8 chars
21:49:07paganis this normal?
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21:49:24paganshould i format the disk or something?
21:50:16zeare you using linux or windows?
21:52:10zehmm odd it seems like it should be using it as vfat then... unless somebody's formatted it otherwise or something or your version of windows doesn't do vfat right out-of-the-box or something
21:52:29ze*shrug* thats all i can think of, maybe someone else knows
21:52:56zedid you check all the docs/FAQs and the mailing list archive and whatnot?
21:53:13paganhmm... no :-), sorry
21:53:35paganshould it matter that i have usb1?
21:53:49amiconnpagan: WinXP?
21:54:55amiconnThis is an explorer bug: If you plug in _any_ removable media device, sometimes the explorer gets confused.
21:55:13pagani see
21:55:23paganso what should i do?
21:55:50paganone more thing: do i always have to 'safely remove hardware' or can i just unplug the usb chord?
21:56:13amiconnIt then (mostly) doesn't show the drive letter and drive name in the tree pane. If this occurs, explorer "thinks" that the drive doesn't support long names. There are 2 methods to overcome this problem.
21:56:55amiconn(1) (Re)start Windows with the drive already plugged in. (Somewhat cumbersome)
21:57:44amiconn(2) Close _all_ instances of explorer.exe (you'll need to use the task manager for that), Then start a fresh instance of explorer.exe
21:58:01paganok i'll try the second one
21:59:15paganyey it worked
21:59:21paganthanks a lot, amiconn
21:59:35paganand thank you ze
22:00:14amiconnYou don't need to use "safely remove hardware" _if_ the drive is set to "optimize for quick removal" (or such, I don't know the exact words since I use German Windows)
22:01:22paganyes it is, thank you very much
22:01:44amiconn(I would just make sure that no application has an open file on the drive before removing)
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22:11:47SLEEP21how did you guys go about creating rockbox?
22:12:01SLEEP21i have a nomad and i'd like to work on a similar project
22:16:33scott666look in the mailing list and IRC logs
22:16:39scott666they go back a few years iirc
22:17:32SLEEP21well, in a nutshell did they reverse engineer the bios update programs or did they reverse engineer the hardware?
22:19:54zethey started with cracking the encryption on an update
22:20:04SLEEP21is it totally legal?
22:20:14scott666i think
22:20:16SLEEP21cracking encryption sounds like a DMCA violation
22:20:40scott666rockbox is based in sweeden (i think)
22:20:41zeand i think they might've gathered some info about some stuff from the decoded binary
22:20:44scott666whatever .se is
22:21:11SLEEP21hehe sweden i got get outta the US
22:21:26zeand it's more of an encoding than real encryption too
22:21:29SLEEP21thanks guys, you've been really helpful
22:21:32zeif that makes a diff
22:21:58zegood luck
22:22:03scott666main things you need are time info and interest
22:23:01zebefore i got it replaced with a karma i had a nomad zen, looked like it'd be capable of nifty stuff with a rockbox-like project
22:23:21zeso would the karma for that matter, i wish somebody'd start one for it now hehe
22:27:34zenow if i could just find out an easy way to exclude web sites that're just selling <product> when looking for sites with info/resources on/for <product>
22:27:44zein google
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22:40:23[IDC]Dragonhi mattzz, you remind me I should go home
22:41:17mattzzstill @ sciworx?
22:41:50*mattzz is speechless
22:42:04mattzzjust having my beer v2.0
22:42:41mattzz[IDC]Dragon: actually I am currently rewriting mandelbrot for shift arithmetic ;-)
22:44:07[IDC]Dragonyou can write it for grayscale, too
22:44:17mattzzcool! api ready?
22:44:27[IDC]Dragonfrom Jens, yes
22:44:46mattzzI _have_ to check that out!
22:45:20[IDC]DragonHe made a plugin containing the framework, look into the patch tracker.
22:45:49[IDC]DragonAll you're left with is set your pixels in the desired shade
22:46:04mattzzthanks for the info. That will be easy than
22:46:20[IDC]Dragonwith some kind of set_pixel(x, y, value) function.
22:46:38mattzzSo what's left? Color I guess....
22:46:52[IDC]Dragonwe have green
22:47:00mattzzThat's a starter!
22:47:27pagani got my recorder from the states... and it came with an american electrical plug which i cant use in romania... can i recharge it by usb on a regular basis? :)
22:47:47mattzzis it a V2 recorder?
22:47:51paganfm recorder
22:47:56amiconnpagan: If it is a V2 or FM, yes
22:48:09paganok great, thanks guys, you're real help
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22:48:28[IDC]Dragon(leaving for home)
22:48:35mattzzc u joerg
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23:00:04amiconnmattzz: I did some tweaking to your mandelbrot.c a few days ago, that brings down execution time from ~3.5 s to ~2.5 s for the initial area.
23:01:03mattzzamiconn: I am @ 2.5 secs as well now. what did you do?
23:02:13amiconnI reduced the number of divisions, because these are the slowest math operations. Your "official" version does several identical operations twice.
23:03:09mattzzI replaced the divisions by shift operations. Currently I am using shifts by 12. As you are deep into assembler, what shift operations are fastest on SH1?
23:03:31c0uttalinus, it appears that action.h has cr/lf combinations in cvs. i'm trying to patch them but am getting rejected
23:03:49c0uttaare you able to fix them manually ?
23:04:03amiconnI even tried to write fixed-point multiplication in assembler, but didn't succeed yet (apparently there is some overflow within my routine).
23:05:01mattzzWe have 32 bit for long variables, right? than we should be able to work with 24 bit offset
23:05:36mattzzwhat shift operations are there in assembler?
23:05:48*mattzz fetching the fine manuals
23:06:01amiconnmattzz: If you do shifts in C, the compiler almost always chooses arithmetical shifts which are limited to 1 bit per shift, but are suited for signed operations.
23:06:58amiconnIf you use asm and it is sufficient to operate on unsigned numbers, then there are shifts by 1, 2, 8 and 16 bit per instruction.
23:07:35mattzzamiconn: ah, I was hoping for the compiler would translate that to a shift by 4,8 or something like that
23:08:07mattzzI am using plain C now
23:08:19amiconnI tried to get fixed point arithmetics to work in a way that there are 16 bits for the integer part and 16 bits for the fraction. This would be the fastest possible solution in asm.
23:08:55mattzzI can try that. 12 bit is working nice so far
23:09:52amiconnAn additional problem is: if you use higher shift counts, the compiler uses a built-in subroutine, so execution gets even slower.
23:12:37amiconnBtw: For my personal build, I changed you initialization values a bit (it looked a bit "rough" to me with these). So I use max_iter = 25 and a bailout value of 9. This is a bit slower than with your values, though.
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23:13:17mattzzah, fine. max_iter = 25 was too slow with the old routine
23:13:39mattzzargh, 16 bit is not working, of course
23:14:21mattzzwe are signed, so this will result in an overflow (longlong)
23:15:43amiconnI didn't manage to understand why 16 bits for the fraction does overflow, did you?
23:16:19mattzzWe are signed, so we have 31bit + sign
23:16:21amiconnThe "ordinary" int has 32 bits as well as the long because the SH1 is a 32 bit machine.
23:16:38 Join mecraw__ [0] (~mecraw@
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23:17:27mattzzso (x*x) would result in a long long
23:17:29amiconnIf we use 16 bit for the integer part (=15 + sign), we go up to +/-32767 before overflow.
23:17:55mattzzah, wait
23:18:10amiconnmattzz: This way you will get an overflow of course; you would have to do (x>>8) * (x>>8)
23:18:22mattzzright, so we have to << 15 everything
23:19:06mattzzinstead of setting x_max to -1.0 I will set is to -1<<15
23:19:42mattzzamiconn: yes x>>8 does the trick
23:20:01amiconn-1.0 would be float, btw.
23:20:35mattzzamiconn: sure
23:21:00amiconnI tried to implement this directly with asm multiplication instructions (so there would be _no_ shifts needed), but apparently did overlook something.
23:21:10mattzzamiconn: that's why -1<<15, not 1.0<<15
23:21:25mattzzthat is pretty tough ;-)
23:21:32amiconnShouldn't it be -1<<16 ?
23:22:06mattzzwouldn't lead that to 16 bit plus sign?
23:23:18amiconnNo, if I'm not completely wrong this would yield 16 bits integer part (15 bits + sign) and 16 bits fractional part.
23:24:00mattzzguess you are right
23:24:09amiconnThis would be the best format to handle with asm multiplication because the SH1 can only do 16 bit multiplies anyway.
23:24:48amiconn(I tried to write the complete inner iteration loop in asm)
23:35:00 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (
23:35:11amiconnre Jörg!
23:35:17[IDC]DragonHi again
23:35:36mattzzok, mandelbrot with 16 bit fractional part is up and running so far
23:35:45mattzzre hi
23:37:10amiconn[IDC]Dragon: I did just a test what speedup we could get for grayscale by placing the core function in IRAM. Measured ~35% (real world)
23:37:44amiconnExec. time of my demo down to 0.70s (from 0.96s)
23:39:28amiconnI wonder if this can be done on the official version, since it leaves us with a "partial functionality" in the core which is worth nothing without the complementing functions.
23:40:51amiconnmattzz: Did you already place the source in some accessible place?
23:41:13mattzznot yet, because that was a pretty quick hack
23:41:18 Quit uski ("Fermeture du client")
23:41:43mattzzamiconn: want to have a look? I am sure there is much space for optimization left ;-)
23:41:53amiconnYes please.
23:41:58 Quit AciD (Connection reset by peer)
23:42:30mattzz2,2 secs with max_iter=15
23:42:51amiconnBailout = 4, as before?
23:43:28mattzzbut strange effects when zooming too hard
23:43:38mattzzmompls, I will put it on my server">
23:47:22amiconn-> could not be found :(
23:47:33mattzzadd a trailing slash
23:48:18amiconnThat worked :)
23:49:16[IDC]Dragonamiconn: 35% speedup is not much to write home about...
23:49:19***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:49:42[IDC]Dragonprobably all that DRAM access
23:51:42amiconn[IDC]Dragon: You're right, I think. So maybe we should not clutter the firmware core with it.
23:52:11amiconnmattzz: Trying to do the same optimization I did for your previous version on the new one....
23:52:58mattzzI'm curious about it.
23:54:24[IDC]Dragonmattzz: the zooming artifacts are probably because of lacking precision
23:54:47[IDC]Dragonwhy so many bits for the integer part?
23:54:53mattzz[IDC]Dragon: guess so. did you see them?
23:55:01[IDC]Dragonyou only need +/- 2 range
23:55:16mattzzfor the sake of speed
23:55:17[IDC]Dragonno, haven't tried myself
23:55:44mattzzjens had the idea that 16 bit operations would be fastest on SH1
23:56:53 Join lImbus [0] (
23:57:29amiconnmattzz: If you use C, it shouldn't matter what shift you use, but in asm it would be best to use the 16 bit / 16 bit split.
23:57:38lImbushi all, these are my first irc-steps. see what I do for my Archos ,-)
23:58:32mattzz[IDC]Dragon: so 28 bit fractional part would be optimum

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