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#rockbox log for 2004-04-14

00:00:22amiconnI would use <= 24 bit fractional part to leave enough "headroom" on the integer part; otherwise an overflow might not be detected.
00:00:28[IDC]Dragona multiplication kills many bits if you have more integer bits
00:01:47[IDC]Dragonif you have 16.16, and multiply that with the same kind, your fractional bits are gone (neglecting sign, that's even worse, one bit less)
00:02:28 Join Douche_Nutz [0] (apemanttt@
00:03:10mattzz[IDC]Dragon: not if I do >>8 first, right?
00:04:23amiconnmattzz: Down to 2.07s (with your default params).
00:04:23[IDC]Dragonthen 8 bits are gone beforehand
00:05:02[IDC]Dragonneed to look at the iteration again, but I'm on something else now
00:06:26mattzzok, time to go to bed. see you folx
00:06:36mattzzamiconn: nice!
00:06:46 Quit mattzz ("Client exiting")
00:08:45 Join mecraw_ [0] (~mecraw@
00:08:45 Quit mecraw__ (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
00:12:44 Quit mecraw_ (Client Quit)
00:13:39 Join midk [0] (
00:18:00scott666whats up?
00:18:12midknot much, you?
00:18:54 Part LinusN
00:19:35lImbushas ever somebody thought about connecting an archos.
00:19:45scott666workin on Cards
00:19:59lImbus-remote-control to a car cd-changer ?
00:20:15lImbusi meant to simulate a cd-changer with the archos
00:20:21scott666thats been done
00:20:29midksimulate, or control?
00:20:44lImbusok, I would like to control my archos by the car radio
00:21:03lImbusjust if it would be a cd-changer of A LOT OF cd's
00:21:21scott666yeah, a few people have done that i think
00:21:29scott666[IDC]Dragon, for one
00:21:36lImbussome car-radios with cd-changer even support cd-text
00:21:49scott666i suggest either joining the mailing list and asking, or reading through the archives
00:22:42lImbusoh, well. beeing subscribed takes time :-/
00:23:26lImbusthanks, ill have a look
00:24:22[IDC]DragonlImbus: what headunit do you have?
00:25:26 Nick midk is now known as midk|brb (
00:26:10lImbusheadunit ? you mean my car radio's main component ? it's a blaupunkt monaco
00:26:42[IDC]DragonI've done Alpine, sorry
00:28:21lImbusI suppose you eavendropped the communication between cdchanger and headunit, then build a "converter" with another small atmel or something like this ?
00:28:42lImbusbtw: I would switch to alpine if it's not possible with blaupunkt
00:28:46[IDC]Dragonat first, yes
00:29:08[IDC]Dragonit's not impossible, it's just not been done
00:29:36[IDC]Dragonlater I found I can go without a controller, doig the protocol by the Archos
00:29:39lImbusyes, I understand, but I'm always lacking of time, so I would prefer to buy a new radio than spending that time.
00:30:15lImbusso the protocol is done within the software, and you modified your rockbox slightly ?
00:30:25[IDC]DragonIt would be an old radio, I've done Alpine M-Bus, which is their older standard. Now the use Ai-Net.
00:30:46[IDC]Dragonno, I didn't modify the box.
00:30:56[IDC]Dragonat least, not for that.
00:31:29lImbusso I suppose there must be massive documentation somewhere about the archos remote ?
00:31:30[IDC]DragonIt's possible because M-Bus is a single-wire bus
00:32:02[IDC]Dragonall others known to me use several pins
00:32:21[IDC]Dragonthe archos remote?
00:32:22lImbushow can it be the archos understands alpine m-bus without modiying anything ?
00:32:58[IDC]Dragonbecause the remote pin can be used bidirectional
00:34:37lImbusyou told me you went without controller by doing the protocol by the archos. do they use the same protocol ? would be a great hazard
00:34:42lImbusdont understand :-/
00:35:17[IDC]Dragonsearch the mailing list for my postings
00:35:50lImbusok, Im already doing, thanks so far
00:36:03[IDC]Dragonthe protocol is done in software, mostly (except for bit receiving)
00:39:12lImbusok, that's what I meant. you modified your rockbox software. nice
00:39:51[IDC]Dragonah, yes, certainly
00:40:03 Quit lImbus ("Changing servers")
00:41:18 Join lImbus [0] (
00:41:34lImbussorry, as I said, my first irc-steps ;-)(
00:47:01 Join diddystar5 [0] (
00:49:27 Quit [IDC]Dragon ()
00:54:12 Nick midk|brb is now known as midk (
01:05:42 Quit scott666 ("i'll be back...eventually...")
01:06:07lImbusis there somebody able and keen to remove / repair the dead link to "nick robinsons sony remote joystick if" on the hardware mods page ?
01:16:50 Quit Douche_Nutz (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:42:07 Join AciD [0] (
01:42:07 Quit Nibbler (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
01:46:37 Part lImbus
01:49:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:06:42 Join BC [0] (
02:09:43 Part amiconn
02:09:43BChey diddy - pretty much finished the card engine!
02:09:43midkyo yo yo
02:09:49BCyou're gonna have to wind the string back on by hand now
02:10:03diddystar5whoa didnt see ya BC
02:10:17BCI'm in stealth mode
02:10:32BCi rolled 20 for "hide in user list"
02:13:37midki don't think any of us "got" that bx
02:14:44BCyoyo's use string - when they do three "yo"s you need wind the string back on
02:15:20midk17:10:31 | <BC> i rolled 20 for "hide in user list"
02:16:31BCyou need to play D&D to get that one sadly
02:16:39midkheeee yo
02:26:10 Nick BC is now known as bc|food (
02:29:44 Join Schuby [0] (
02:30:32Schubyanyone herE?
02:31:48Schubyjust wondering if anyone can help me with my USB woes
02:32:04midkwhat is the problem?
02:32:56Schubywell it was working fine until a transfer froze, now the tray icon says "No Drives Detected". I've fixed this problem before by reinstalling drivers, uninstalling / reinstalling, etc... but it dosen't seem to work anymore
02:33:29diddystar5what os?
02:34:04 Quit Schuby (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:34:13 Join Schuby [0] (
02:34:31Schubysorry windows xp crashed when I was trying to install the drivers again
02:34:42diddystar5dont install any drivers
02:34:49diddystar5remove any that you have
02:35:01SchubyI tried that to, windows XP see's it as an 'unknown usb device'
02:35:24diddystar5and just plug in your box, xp already has drivers built in for it
02:35:45Schubyquestion, how do you uninstall a driver without plugging the archos in so it shows up in hardware manager>
02:36:18Schuby(I havnt used this sucker for over a year, but it still works fine playing songs)
02:37:31Schubytrying this again, without drivers
02:37:48diddystar5go to add remove progs and look for something like tpp driver
02:38:04Schubyok, its uninstalled then
02:38:31Schubyyeah, windows xp can't seem to find "the right software" (from the error window) to install the hardware
02:39:19Schubyim tempted to reformat, but that would be a last resort in this case
02:39:28diddystar5you can try
02:39:42diddystar5make sure you alwasy have a backup on your pc also
02:39:49diddystar5(if you dont)
02:40:06 Quit AciD (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
02:40:15Schubyyeah I have windows on a seperate partition, so I just copy my important files to another partition and reformat
02:40:20Schubybut what else can I try?
02:40:49diddystar5No idea really
02:41:11diddystar5It always a few people that have these problems...
02:41:43 Quit Galik ("Client exiting")
02:41:49 Join Galik [0] (~galik@
02:42:04Schubyyeah its weird
02:42:19Schubywhich TTP driver does the archos 6000 use? I noticed theres was like 3
02:43:29diddystar5all of them, remove them all
02:43:55SchubyI did, I mean, which one does it use
02:44:08Schubyso I can try another method of finding the exact driver
02:47:08Schubyis there anyone else here that might know, diddystar5?
02:47:19diddystar5umm not really
02:48:37 Quit Schuby (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:50:05 Join Douche_Nutz [0] (apemanttt@
02:53:32 Nick bc|food is now known as Bluechip (
02:54:22 Quit Galik ("Client exiting")
03:17:13 Join Nibbler [0] (
03:23:04diddystar5bye bye
03:23:27 Quit diddystar5 ("Leaving")
03:23:31Bluechipso mk, played with cards.c yet?
03:24:10midkdidnt get to
03:24:41 Quit Douche_Nutz (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
03:40:17 Join scott666 [0] (
03:40:44midkyo scott.
03:41:01midkwaaaaasa wasaaaaaaaa
03:41:05midki mean
03:41:18Bluechipbeaming time
03:41:30Bluechipfixed that riffle
03:41:43Bluechip(scotty joke)
03:41:54midkoh lol
03:42:21scott666what was wrong with the riffle?
03:42:35midkwtf is going on
03:43:02Bluechipkept changing the nuer of cards in the deck
03:43:18Bluechip<= became < and the problem buggered off
03:43:40scott666now theres no riffle_in
03:43:46Bluechipyes there is
03:44:16scott666 case RIFFLE_IN:
03:44:16scott666 case RIFFLE_OUT:
03:44:18Bluechipline 524
03:44:30midkcase RIFFLE_IN
03:44:33Bluechipnote lack of "break"
03:44:34midkso wtf is a riffle again
03:44:37Bluechipafter the IN
03:45:00midkheh bc was that directd at me yo
03:45:41midkohh its only on the sim yo
03:45:44midkits like
03:46:36midki could make better icons than that
03:46:45midkand wtf sort of interface is this
03:47:04Bluechipwell, it is obviously not for you :P
03:47:16scott666theres an interface now?
03:47:20midki hit off like 10 times and it shut off yay
03:47:36midkit was like
03:47:38Bluechipit runs a demo of all the routines and pauses for a key at each stage
03:47:45midkwriting sector 5 address to 5a
03:48:19Bluechipit is to show the smart man how to develop his own card game
03:48:29Bluechipbut such that he does not need to be a guru programmer to do it
03:49:04midkheh its ugly period.
03:49:26***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:50:04midknote the period
03:50:16midksee: period. <−− d. <−−- . .
03:50:27Bluechipforever the intellect hey mk?
03:50:39midkum wha
03:50:43scott666what exactly is juggle?
03:50:48midkjuggle the cards
03:50:50midklets do it
03:50:51DBUGEnqueued KICK midk
03:50:53Bluechipat least use a word with more than two or three syllables if you're going for an insult ;)
03:52:31 Join lImbus [0] (
03:52:47Bluechipjuggle you mean the line of code:
03:52:47BluechipMoveCard(hand[2],6, hand[2],1, FACE_DOWN, SPREAD_X_N);
03:53:10scott666and the following line
03:53:25scott666is it just to show how you can move cards around between hands?
03:53:47Bluechipas in between hand 2 and hand 2
03:55:47 Join Strath [0] (
03:56:10scott666oh!! haha, i get it now
03:56:21scott666i was looking at juggled: sorted
03:56:32scott666not p4 discard: juggle
03:57:33Bluechipthe text in the code is what has JUST happened
03:57:42Bluechipon screen it seems like it is what is ABOUT to happen
03:57:54midkoh so yeah
03:57:56midkim like
03:57:58Bluechiphence the whitespace in the code
03:57:59midkyo wasup
03:58:01midkand hes like
03:58:04midkwtf is wrong with u
03:58:09midku trying to act black
03:58:22midkand im like tight program and hes like not when u say it its just creepy
03:58:23Bluechiphave you become a valley girl?
03:58:36midki think so
03:58:40Bluechipdo you have a web cam
03:59:06midkoyah i do
03:59:15Bluechipget yer tits out baby
03:59:19midkwhoa nm
03:59:22scott666wow, kinda sad when you cant tell someones ebonics impression from a valley girl
03:59:24midk*throws it away
03:59:48Bluechipthat was ebonics - riiiiight got you
03:59:51scott666you walked right into that one midk
04:00:01midkheh i try
04:00:06midkbut it was funny
04:00:16midkZakk says:
04:00:16midkyo yo yo
04:00:16midkInflamedSpirit says:
04:00:16***Alert Mode level 1
04:00:16midkZakk says:
04:00:17***Alert Mode level 2
04:00:17midkwasup yo
04:00:19midkInflamedSpirit says:
04:00:21midkwtf is wrong with u?
04:00:44scott666msn takes up too much space
04:00:45midkhe's funny
04:00:48midksry yo
04:00:51midkill change it
04:01:02Bluechipchill homie
04:01:03midkheh i taught him to indent
04:01:04midkZakk says:
04:01:04midkyo yo yo
04:01:04***Alert Mode level 3
04:01:04midkInflamedSpirit says:
04:01:04***Alert Mode level 4
04:01:04***Alert Mode level 5
04:01:04midkZakk says:
04:01:06midkwasup yo
04:01:08midkInflamedSpirit says:
04:01:10midkwtf is wrong with u?
04:01:27midkhis was this
04:01:42midkfor(i = 0; i<LHEIGHT; i++)
04:01:42midkfor(ii = 0; ii<LWIDTH; ii++)
04:01:42***Alert Mode level 6
04:01:42***Alert Mode level 7
04:01:42midkprintf("%c", fgetc(fp) );
04:01:42***Alert Mode level 8
04:01:42midkfscanf(fp, "%c", &map[ii][i]);
04:01:48midki was like
04:02:22midkis the code good
04:03:00Bluechipbit of an unattractive menstruation though don't you think (or maybe you don't?)
04:04:12Bluechipyes it is or yes you don't think?
04:04:24Bluechipboth are funny
04:04:24midkyes it is
04:05:30Bluechipwhere can I download some Rozelle?
04:08:38CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
04:08:38*scott666 made an Eight Note Tuneable Organ in electronics
04:09:04Bluechipoh how we love astable multivibrators
04:09:27Bluechipchips or trannies?
04:09:55*lImbus tests /me
04:10:45 Nick midk is now known as midk|brb (
04:10:45DBUGEnqueued KICK midk|brb
04:10:45***Alert Mode level 9
04:11:16 Quit lImbus ("so long")
04:11:53 Quit scott666 ("testing /quit would've been funnier")
04:12:08 Join scott666 [0] (
04:12:43 Join JohnnyDemocracy [0] (
04:14:06Bluechipanyone here into beatboxing?
04:14:43scott666is that like rockboxing without bass or guitar?
04:15:21Bluechipjust found Rahzel (not rozelle) doing "if your mother only knew" - awesome ...if you're into that kind of thing ....which personally I am
04:16:00scott666im ignorant but interested
04:16:34 Join sleep_21 [0] (
04:17:11Bluechipyou can find the track on WinMX (prolly others too)
04:18:03scott666i wish winmx had the selection of kazaa
04:18:32Bluechipmost of the stuff I d/l is not available on any other open network
04:19:32scott666a great big anonymous all encompassing network would be great
04:20:10sleep_21what software is used to flash the archos bios?
04:20:44sleep_21will that compile as an exe?
04:20:46***Alert Mode OFF do it while the archos is running
04:21:04Bluechipjust run it in the same way as tetris
04:21:07scott666.....on the archos
04:21:16sleep_21i'm trying to get started on an opensource firmware for the nomad
04:21:31scott666oh, right
04:21:34sleep_21you can't run programs from the nomad afaik
04:21:35Bluechipgo4it :)
04:21:59scott666youll need to do quite a bit more than just run firmware_flash then
04:22:03Bluechipno, .rock is to Rockbox as .exe is to Windows
04:22:20sleep_21well, how do you flash the bios the first time?
04:22:26scott666flashing didnt come until 2-3 years into rockbox
04:22:29sleep_21to get Roclbox on there
04:22:39scott666originally we didnt
04:22:50sleep_21oh yeah?
04:22:51Bluechipthe standard firmware checks for an updated f/w in root
04:22:54scott666the archos is capable of firmware updates via ajbrec.ajz
04:23:07scott666if the file is present it loads that
04:23:38sleep_21oh, i think the nomad's firmware is total in the rom
04:23:43scott666they had to open that up and figure out how to scramble and descramble those, then write code to go in it
04:23:51Bluechipyou CAN upgrade nomad firmware as i recall
04:24:05sleep_21yeah, it can be flashed, but i'd have to write the app to do it
04:24:15scott666im pretty sure you need some code to reverse engineer to get anywhere
04:24:31sleep_21and i have an extra which i don't think has any kind of serial interface
04:25:01Bluechipwrite your own app to flash normal firmware first
04:25:17sleep_21I can't tell whether or not this is totally above me, i know a bit of ASM and a decent bit of C++
04:25:32scott666Bluechip: should i get the 2 minute version or the 10 minute version?
04:25:35Bluechipyou're in then
04:26:06Bluechipscott: the 2min version is good enough for a start
04:26:25Bluechipif you like it, get the big one
04:27:18sleep_21bluechip: that's enough knowledge to get going on it?
04:27:40scott666(note: Bluechip is the optimist of the group)
04:27:54Bluechipsleep: how does the nomad upgrade?
04:28:03Bluechipneed tea - brb
04:28:36sleep_21#1 connect the USB, #2 turn on the unit, #3 run the firmware update app, #4 unit automatically restarts
04:28:55scott666youll have to crack the app then
04:30:05scott666i have no idea how to go about cracking it
04:30:33scott666but you need to figure out how it works to write your own code
04:31:34Bluechipuse a usb port sniffer and log all the traffic
04:34:08sleep_21this whole undertaking frightens me :-)
04:34:38Bluechipunless you are 104.3% determined to crack it ...give up now
04:35:11Bluechipif they've put an encryption layer in the way, you gonna start sweating
04:35:36sleep_21i'm pretty sure there is an encryption
04:36:03Bluechipare you indeed
04:36:23sleep_21what little information there is on suggest that there is
04:36:59Bluechipi'll take your word for it - this was one of the main reasons that I chose an Archos unit
04:37:10sleep_21because of rockbox?
04:37:33sleep_21yeah, it's a pretty awesome project
04:38:00sleep_21i'm sure it can be done to the nomad, but i wish i wasn't the one who had to start from scratch on it :-)
04:38:49Bluechipwell, if you have questions I am sure that people here will help, it was that way with avos, but
04:39:03Bluechipopen ended "hows" have too many answers
04:39:44Bluechipthe more initiative you show, the more help will just appear from the shadows (in my experience)
04:40:04Bluechipget some publicity
04:40:09sleep_21that's what i'm hoping, i'd like to make one breakthrough and hope people will jump onboard
04:40:28Bluechipwrite a program to flash their code - that'll make people sit up
04:40:40Bluechipget schematics
04:40:44Bluechipget chip info
04:40:56sleep_21im woried about f'ing up my rom in the process, i do like my Xtra ;-)
04:41:01Bluechipprogrammers bluebook for the cpu
04:41:27Bluechipif you have no way to recover a dead rom, you're in trouble
04:42:01Bluechipwith archos you dont (need to) touch the flash, you just add a new f/w to the hardrive
04:42:08Bluechipzero risk
04:45:38scott666get a server that can attempt to be /.ed
04:46:08scott666(late response)
04:46:41BluechipI think it's prolly time to give up on this cards thing
04:46:42sleep_21yeah, but i gotta make progress before i can get /. :-)
04:47:06Bluechipsorry, another chat
04:47:27Bluechipcos I'm doing it all on my own - and I'm really not that interested
04:47:36Bluechipenthusiasm is waining fast
04:47:40scott666what happened to diddy?
04:47:49Bluechipbanned from using a computer for 5 weeks
04:49:16scott666that song is crazy
04:49:28Bluechipincredible innit
04:49:37scott666would be much more impressive live, but yeah
04:51:55 Join scott666_ [0] (
04:54:35CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
04:54:35*scott666_ cant figure out how the sorting works
04:54:48scott666_ahh! ghost!!
04:56:28 Join Douche_Nutz [0] (apemanttt@
04:56:39Bluechipqsort is a c lib function
04:56:45Bluechipessentially just works
04:57:38Bluechipit takes two elements at a time from array X which has length Y and size Z
04:57:57Bluechipand passed them to fn(void* void*) which says which one is bigger
04:58:27Bluechipit uses a divide-and-conquer algorithm
04:58:42Bluechipmore memory, but faster than bubble sort
04:58:55scott666_i figured there was probably a faster way than how i did it
04:59:25Bluechipdo a search for Quick Sort
04:59:30scott666_it was fun to figure out though
04:59:39Bluechipyou worked that out?
04:59:43Bluechipwell done
05:00:27scott666_it went through a few phases, then i came up with the basic idea of moving one to the front and shifting the rest back
05:00:41scott666_then i figured out that wasnt enough and made 'front' a variable too
05:00:44Bluechipoh right, not quite bubble then
05:00:55Bluechipdidn't look super close at the code
05:00:59sleep_21wow, USB snoop outputs an insane amount of data
05:01:29Bluechipsleep: you only really want the packet data, ignore the headers
05:01:40sleep_21tthe hex stuff?
05:01:48Bluechiptry to find your firmware file in the dump
05:01:57Bluechipdont know - not used "USB SNoop"
05:02:06sleep_21what have you used?
05:02:16Bluechipa real one :(
05:02:46 Nick midk|brb is now known as midk (
05:02:46DBUGEnqueued KICK midk
05:04:03Bluechipsleep: any screen shots available online
05:04:15sleep_21of the log?
05:04:31Bluechipwhatever would help me help you
05:04:42 Quit JohnnyDemocracy (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
05:05:54sleep_21ill talk a closer look at it later, i gotta get back to assembly homework :-)
05:06:05Bluechiplol - send it over - lol
05:06:15Bluechipwe did mk's homework the other night
05:06:23midkgot a new thing now
05:06:24midkits like
05:06:35midkmultiply square roots with the factors of polynomials or something
05:07:12Bluechipadvanced trig next month differentials and integration
05:07:30sleep_21that stuff is sooo last semester for me ;-)
05:07:36scott666_determinants of a matrix and cramers rule...
05:07:44Bluechipf' that!
05:07:50Bluechiphated matrices
05:07:54scott666_me too
05:08:15Bluechipand ALL math lecturers suck!
05:08:21sleep_21i'm trying to input ascii chars from the keyboard with int21 (1) and convert them to actual numbers
05:08:33scott666_teacher got pissed when i told her we should watch the matrix for 'review'
05:08:34Bluechipwhat base?
05:08:38sleep_21i've already wrote the subroutine to output any hex number in DX
05:09:10midkok lets see
05:09:17midki can factor easy now
05:09:24midkyah so
05:09:34midkfactoring squares of binomials
05:09:41scott666_i factored your mom
05:09:44midkx^2 - 18x + 81 yo
05:09:46sleep_21the tough part is i need a loop to do the input and another loop to increase the amount of zeros after each 10's place
05:10:17midkheh i got that one on my own scott
05:10:19midkwhat about this
05:10:20scott666_even easier than what you were just doing
05:10:24 Join JohnnyDemocracy [0] (
05:10:43 Quit scott666 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
05:10:54sleep_21factor out an X first
05:11:22midk25- 70x + 49x^2
05:11:29midkspaced oyut
05:11:55scott666_oh, wait, nevermind
05:11:59scott666_the x is on the wrong sid
05:12:09 Nick scott666_ is now known as scott666 (
05:13:30sleep_21thnks bluechip, but i gotta use int 21
05:13:56sleep_21in a loop
05:13:59scott666it doesnt matter?
05:14:13midkit doesn't?
05:14:20scott666foil both
05:14:25BluechipSleep: I also have a bressenhams that works entirely in registers if you want it
05:16:32Bluechipscott: so we giving up with this cards thing then, or is there a good next step?
05:16:46scott666good question
05:16:52scott666i dont want to, but i dont know where to go next
05:17:04scott666i have no clue on how to write to the screen
05:17:23scott666midk: what?
05:17:23midkim the screen guy
05:17:26midk*ui guy
05:17:31midkheh sry
05:17:35midki meant pick me
05:17:37scott666but i want solitaire!
05:17:59scott666its a dilemma
05:18:08Bluechiphey scott, you up to working out how to write an ovehand shuffle?
05:18:22scott666if youre up for explaining what it is
05:18:55Bluechiphold deck left hand
05:19:04Bluechiptake BOTTOM 2/3 with right hand
05:19:20scott666and then mix the top back in?
05:19:28Bluechipdrop SOME from the TOP of the right hand on the TOP of the left hand
05:19:34Bluechiprepeat until right hand is empty
05:20:05scott666how many is some?
05:20:27BluechipTOTALLY dependant on the person shuffling
05:20:43Bluechipmaybe even take bottom 8/9ths of deck to start
05:20:47scott666se we use a big random nnumber?
05:21:00scott666i can do that
05:21:12Bluechipi would say take between 2/5 and 4/5 of deck
05:21:30Bluechipmake at least 2 drops
05:21:41Bluechipless than 9 drops
05:21:48scott666and then mix back in between a quarter and a 16th per drop?
05:25:19midkyou werent even like gone
05:25:26midkwtf is this "brb" shit
05:25:29midki mean
05:25:31midkwb scott
05:26:56Bluechipit's courtesy ole bean - we had been chatting at that point ;)
05:29:51midkyo yo yo
05:33:35midki said yo.
05:35:29Bluechipcome on then MK, if you're mr grafix ....
05:35:36Bluechipcome up with something cool for:
05:35:39Bluechipa joker
05:35:43Bluechipin 4x5
05:35:59midkjoker eh
05:36:05midk4 by 5
05:36:10midkwtf sort of shit is this
05:36:11midki mean
05:36:41Bluechipx*.6 = 0
05:36:50midkwhy not just a "j"
05:36:57scott666oh, right
05:37:18midkcan we up the size to 64x64 so i can fit a real joke in it
05:37:21midkthen youll know its a joker
05:37:37BluechipI've seen Picard in 12x12
05:37:48Bluechipin fact the full bridge crew
05:37:56sleep_21you guys should do iraqi cards
05:38:07sleep_21if you're true patriots
05:38:10Bluechipthe Ace of Terrorists
05:38:25BluechipThe Jack of Nukes
05:38:32midkwhy are there jokers anyways
05:38:44sleep_21it's solitaire right?
05:38:45BluechipThe Queen of Rulers
05:38:55BluechipThe King of Siam
05:39:15BluechipA joker with Bush's face on it
05:39:21midkwhat that in bitmap format?
05:39:34sleep_21maybe it would be good to have a cards.h so you can make a bunch of games
05:39:37midkhard to say
05:39:38Bluechipdude it's 4x5 - any format is good
05:39:46midki meant the like hex stuff
05:39:54 Quit JohnnyDemocracy ()
05:39:58midk0xFF, 0x7C etc
05:40:13Bluechipwhich bit of ANY format is confusing
05:40:22midkthe any part
05:40:24midkany bit*
05:40:36Bluechipinvent a new one
05:40:47scott666how about this:
05:40:47scott666cut = ((PileCardCnt*3)/5)+((((rb->rand()%4)-2)/10)*PileCardCnt);
05:41:10midkgod dammit i cant
05:41:17midkits 4x5 wtf is going on lol
05:41:23midki made a happy face
05:41:27scott666do it in ascii art!
05:41:59Bluechipsorry scott, what is the intended range of the cut?
05:42:56scott6662/5 - 4/5
05:43:03scott66660% +/- 20%
05:44:43Bluechip{0,1,2,3}-2 => {-2,-1,0,1}/10 => {0,0,0,0}
05:45:54scott666oh, it should go up to 5
05:45:59Bluechipever wanna go blind - look at my intelligent volume scaling algorithm in audio_3587
05:46:50scott666cut = ((PileCardCnt*3)/5)+((((rb->rand()%5)-2)*PileCardCnt)/10)
05:47:08Bluechip%5 will give you 0..4
05:47:26scott666-2 -1 0 1 2
05:48:13Bluechipthat looks good for the initial cut
05:48:29Bluechiplooks like it could be factored - lol
05:48:45Bluechip /5 and /10
05:49:28***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:49:31scott666so...get rid of the 10 and multiply the whole thing by 2?
05:49:41scott666just the first part by 2?
05:49:59Bluechipor divide the second half by 2 and the lot by 5
05:52:36Bluechip(52*6)+( ((2)-2) *52) = 312
05:53:15scott666that wont do
05:54:07midkit wont will it?
05:55:38scott666oh, i need to divide the whole thing by 10
05:56:18Bluechipdid you check it this time ?
05:56:46scott666no, but i remembered 52*.6 is 32.1
05:57:16BluechipI like your head :)
05:57:40Bluechipnow match the brackets
05:57:45scott666changing it saves 3! characters
05:58:02Bluechipremoving the extra brackets will probably do the same again
05:59:05scott666what extra brackets? i just dont trust C
05:59:20Bluechipcount the opens and closes
05:59:32Bluechipyou are wise not to trust C
05:59:39scott666there it is
06:00:02Bluechipif (a==1 && b==2) .... if (a==(1&&2)==b) ...iirc
06:01:25Bluechiplooks about right
06:01:27scott6664 characeters
06:01:30midkyo yo yo
06:02:16Bluechipi like this line:
06:02:16Bluechip for (i=0; i<PileCardCnt; hand++)
06:02:39midki like this one:
06:02:47Bluechipdid you see my changes to your riffle
06:02:54midkfor(oyah; eatme; omfgtasteme)
06:03:12scott666pile[cut2++].posn = ++i;
06:03:16Bluechipwhile(midk) fork(off);
06:03:18midkcut pile yo
06:03:46midkwhile( { forkoff(); yo yo yo! }
06:04:03midkError: "yo" undeclared (first use in this function)
06:04:05Bluechipmissing ; at end of input
06:04:10midkoh yeah remember bc's good one
06:04:19midkError: Bla.c:45: No error
06:04:40Bluechip"keyboard failure, press f1 to continue"
06:04:57midkdont die on me now bc
06:04:58scott666ha! my computer says that when i boot without it plugged in
06:04:59midkDONT DIE
06:05:09midko yay
06:06:26Bluechipits in every bios
06:06:59midkdont die dont die
06:07:19scott666you can also press del to enter setup
06:10:22Bluechipfinished that alg yet?
06:10:49scott666no, im checking to see how it went again
06:13:11scott6662 >= drops <= 9, right?
06:13:34scott666*2 <=
06:14:22Bluechipi reckon that's fair - if you have any cards to hand you could give it a try - given that the idea is to simulate a human
06:14:45scott666ive been thinking that since yesterday, but i cant find a deck
06:15:32scott666i do
06:15:39scott666the operative word was 'find'
06:16:00BluechipI just tidied my bedroom, so i can find shit atm
06:16:09Bluechipvery proud of myself
06:16:17Bluechipeven washed out the shower
06:16:24Bluechiphtf does a SHOWER get dirty???
06:16:33Bluechipthat's like dirty soap
06:16:36scott666good question
06:16:41Bluechipand towels
06:16:46Bluechipwhy do they need washing
06:17:00BluechipI only ever use them JUST after I have cleaned myself
06:20:18scott666x = ((rb->rand()%4)+1)*(cut1*3);
06:20:32scott666range should be 10% to 50%
06:21:24scott666wtf is that *3?
06:21:55scott666*x = ((rb->rand()%4)+1)*(cut1/10);
06:22:39Bluechip*x - lol
06:22:51scott6661-5 * 31/10 = 3-15 cards/drop
06:23:37Bluechipnever allow fewer than say 5 cards to be left in your hand
06:24:16midkhaving fun?
06:24:45Bluechiplol - yeah sick innit - we do this stuff for a laugh :D
06:24:58BluechipI Love AI
06:24:59midkso much work for a card game
06:25:04midk*x = ((rb->rand()%4)+1)*(cut1/10);
06:25:13midkthe logic of that will make me hit the ground dead
06:25:41midkrand divided by four, that plus one,, times cut1 divided by ten
06:25:51Bluechiprnd MOD 4
06:25:57midk*puts finger in ear and TWISTS
06:26:00midkoh yeh
06:26:04Bluechipdivide by four -take the remainder
06:26:09midkooh no shitsors!
06:26:10midki mean
06:26:39midk:D sry
06:27:01scott666 case OVERHAND:
06:27:01scott666 {
06:27:01scott666 UI16 cut1, cut2, hand, i, x;
06:27:01DBUGEnqueued KICK scott666
06:27:01scott666 cut1 = ((PileCardCnt*6)+(((rb->rand()%5)-2)*PileCardCnt)/10);
06:27:02scott666 cut2 = PileCardCnt-1
06:27:04scott666 hand = rb->rand()&1;
06:27:06scott666 for (i=0; i<PileCardCnt; hand++)
06:27:08scott666 {
06:27:10scott666 x = ((rb->rand()%4)+1)*(cut1/10);
06:27:12scott666 if (hand&1)
06:27:14scott666 for ( ; x)&&(cut1<cut); x−−)
06:27:15Bluechiplol, yeah right - the kind of sorry that means "i'll do it again in a minute" ;)
06:27:16scott666 pile[cut1++].posn = ++i;
06:27:18scott666 else
06:27:20scott666 for( ; x)&&(cut2<PileCardCnt); x−−)
06:27:22scott666 pile[cut2−−].posn = ++i;
06:27:24scott666 }
06:27:26scott666 }
06:27:49Bluechipwhy does your client jam up after a few lines?
06:27:59scott666does it really?
06:28:15scott666works fine on this end
06:28:20Bluechipmaybe its a relay thing
06:28:29midkHAHA BC
06:28:33midk21:27:12 | <Bluechip> lol, yeah right - the kind of sorry that means "i'll do it again in a minute" ;)
06:28:35midkdead on
06:28:57scott666one of those funny-cause-its-true sort of things
06:29:11Bluechipyou must have sooooo many friends
06:30:01scott666the end is taken straight from the shuffle code, only its cut2−−
06:30:17Bluechipdoes it work?
06:30:22scott666no idea
06:30:41scott666ill test it
06:32:06scott666 ShufflePile(STOCK, OVERHAND);
06:32:06scott666 DumpPiles("overhand");
06:32:14Bluechiplooks good
06:32:25Bluechipdo it with on New deck so you can see what happened
06:35:39BluechipLook at that proc
06:37:45scott666x &&(cut1<cut)
06:37:45scott666remember what this did?
06:38:16Bluechipx is the countdown of how many to drop
06:38:26scott666the other part
06:38:40Bluechipcut1<cut, stops you using cards that are in the other hand
06:38:54scott666do we need to worry about that here?
06:39:12Bluechipdunno :(
06:39:20BluechipI'm doin the grafix atm
06:39:53scott666yay, it compiles now
06:42:31midknice job nice job
06:42:36midkIM THE GRAPHIX GUY
06:42:38midkman you guys suck
06:42:53Bluechipi see nothing on my screen with your name on it
06:43:09Bluechipdo it, or be left behind
06:43:20midki do
06:43:25Bluechipi ain't slackin' down to your speed
06:43:28midkits right up above your second to last message
06:43:31midkthird to last now
06:43:40midki'm sitting here photoshopping
06:43:43midkwhatcha expect yo
06:44:09Bluechiptwo hours ago a set of grafix would have been nice
06:44:18midkwell you never asked so there
06:44:20Bluechipi'm just finishing the screen shots
06:44:28scott666that was an intensive test
06:44:47midkwell if you ever want help the c guru is here
06:45:15scott666so my function killed the sim
06:45:23scott666and froze windows for a couple minutes
06:46:47Bluechipthat'll be an infifte lop then
06:48:26scott666that would be the for( ; x; x−−)
06:49:31midki'm off
06:49:32midknite all
06:49:37midkand I DO THE GFX NEXT TIME
06:49:50Bluechipnit mk
06:50:00Bluechipthey're done
06:50:01midkso what's the progress for the evening?
06:50:25midkanything done?
06:50:28BluechipI started and finished the graphics design
06:50:34Bluechipyou sat an whinged
06:50:38midknice work
06:50:45Bluechipdiddy got banned from his computer
06:50:46midki IMed and photoshopped to
06:50:52midkheh he always does
06:50:55Bluechipscott is sorting the next shuffle alg
06:51:00midknot bad
06:51:03midkwork a bit harder tho
06:51:08midkesp scott
06:51:09midkwe can do this
06:51:19midklet's take it up a notch team!
06:51:20Bluechipdespite your help
06:51:30midkyeah, i do too much
06:51:34midki should let you do more
06:51:42midki'm hogging the spotlight here
06:51:47midkyou can work on a few lines tomorrow
06:52:22Bluechipnote to self: work out how to "ignore" in trill
06:52:27midkok seriously off. good work people!
06:52:30midki think theres a button yo
06:52:37 Quit midk ("BUTTON BUTTON CASE BUTTON OFF")
06:53:17scott666there isnt
06:53:44scott666i dont see ignore anywhere
06:53:49scott666maybe just /ignore nick
06:53:51Bluechipsource updated
06:54:07scott666whats new? gfx?
06:56:53scott666i think overhand works
06:57:02scott666it definitely shuffles
06:59:37Bluechipif it still needs checking - I will add it later - no time to debug right now
07:00:08Bluechipwhy are you unable to check it?
07:01:04scott666should there be little clumps of numbers in order?
07:01:34Bluechipread my descriptoin earlier
07:02:22scott666something is wrong then
07:02:31scott666it looks totally random
07:03:05Bluechipcut the deck
07:03:12Bluechiptop on left
07:03:16Bluechipbottom on right
07:03:32Bluechiptake small piles from the right and put them on the left until you are done
07:03:53scott666i know what its supposed to do−−it just doesnt for some reason i havnt figure out yet
07:03:58scott666gimme a minute
07:10:53 Join Schuby [0] (
07:11:30Schubyyeah so I think my archos 6000 is officially no longer able to connect to a computer
07:11:56Schubyquestion, would a non-official archos usb cable cause windows not to notice the internal HD?
07:11:58Bluechipdoes the USB logo appear on the archos?
07:12:04Schubyyes it does
07:12:16Bluechipthen the archos can see the computer
07:12:26Schubybut windows cannot see the drive, I tried on 3 computers, reinstalling drivers, NOT installing drivers, and reformatting
07:12:35Schubywell I meant I can't transfer anymore
07:12:49scott666bad drive maybe?
07:12:54Schubystill plays
07:13:02Schubyrockbox 2.2
07:13:15scott666what OS?
07:13:18Schubyim thinking maybe its the USB cable?
07:13:19Schubywindows xp
07:13:24Bluechipcould be the cable
07:13:35Bluechipor maybe the socket
07:13:38Schubyit transfered for a while, froze, and then stopped working like I said (sees archos, but says "No drives')
07:14:18SchubyI wish I knew where my original cable was
07:14:42Bluechipyeah damn archos for the weird cable
07:14:52Bluechipnever found an adaptor to carry with me
07:15:18Schubyso their cables are modified or something?
07:15:28Bluechipno, just an unusual A-A
07:16:12Schubymaybe its the socket
07:16:18Schubywhat can I do to adjust that? Its a little lose
07:16:34Bluechipopen it up and solder it back on
07:16:43Bluechiptreat with more care in futre ;)
07:16:57SchubyI dont think its off the solder, but let me check
07:17:12Bluechipuse a magnifier
07:17:19Schubyhavnt used this thing for like 1 and a half years
07:17:31Bluechipdirt in the socker?
07:17:47Bluechipclean with cotton buds and IPA
07:18:34Bluechipscott, new source, what do you make of the mocked up screen art?
07:18:56Schubycool, I need to find a allen wrench real quick
07:18:58scott666i havnt looked at it yet, i didnt think it would take this long to get the damn overhand to work
07:19:11Schubyany idea when rockbox will boot using the rom on 6000's?
07:19:16Bluechiplol - the other also took an age :)
07:19:27scott666when jörg has free time
07:19:36Bluechipi dont think they have flash
07:19:41scott666some do
07:19:54Bluechipprolly never, jorg has moved on
07:20:14scott666videos and voice uis and whatnot
07:20:36Schubyno video for me :\
07:20:47Schubyim thinking of getting a recorder, v2, or something
07:20:49Bluechip6K cannot do video anyway
07:20:52Bluechipget a v1
07:21:21CtcpIgnored 2 channel CTCP requests in 1 hour and 24 minutes at the last flood
07:21:21*scott666 is still meaning to fix his headphone jack
07:22:29scott666i know what it is
07:22:31scott666i think
07:22:52scott666im moving cards to the front without pushing them back
07:23:12SchubyI know 6k can't do video, thats why I said no video for me :P
07:24:54Schubybleh, screwdriver
07:25:39 Join [1]c0utta [0] (
07:29:45scott666damn you overhand!!
07:30:38 Quit c0utta (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
07:30:41 Nick [1]c0utta is now known as c0utta (
07:32:27scott666i somehow made 300 exmpty cards
07:33:20Bluechipi kept losing one the other night
07:34:00Bluechipif you make more then MaxCards you may GPF or lock-up
07:36:24scott666ok now its just mocking me
07:36:33scott666one of the cards is a simley face
07:37:37BluechipjOKER :)
07:39:10scott666ugh...i need sleep
07:39:19scott666you can play with it if you want
07:39:29Bluechipno, i fixed the last one - lol
07:39:43Bluechipbut send it ove for safe keeping
07:40:21BluechipI'll drop it on the ftp with everything else
07:41:54 Quit scott666 ("i'll be back...eventually...")
07:49:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:53:27 Quit sleep_21 ()
07:56:57 Join amiconn [0] (
07:56:59 Quit Schuby (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
08:03:08 Quit Douche_Nutz (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
08:06:44 Join mattzz [0] (
08:14:06 Join JohnnyDemocracy [0] (
08:16:14 Join LinusN [200] (
08:17:56BluechipMornin' Mr N
08:19:56LinusNmorning mr B
08:20:52Bluechipsomeone caught me when i was bored and got me started on an engine for card games ...nearly there...
08:22:02Bluechipthere was talk a while back of documenting the API, do you know if it happened?
08:23:47LinusNdocumenting which API?
08:23:57BluechipRockbox plugin API
08:23:57LinusNthe plugin API?
08:24:08LinusNthere is a documentation file
08:24:15LinusNit's called plugin.h :-)
08:24:35LinusNi guess that answers your question :-)
08:24:49BluechipAnyway, how are you mate?
08:24:58LinusNthis raises an interesting question
08:25:31LinusNit would be nice for people to use your card deck framework like a plugin by itself
08:25:52LinusNa plugin for plugins
08:25:59LinusNand i'm fine thank you
08:26:04BluechipI won't dig, but I hope that is interesting in a good way
08:26:20LinusNi don't think we will go down that road
08:26:28LinusNtoo much work imho
08:26:42BluechipToo much money to go with it I hope
08:27:07BluechipI am writing the plugin to be intuitive - i though of a scripting language, but couldn't work out what was required
08:27:27Bluechiphow do you "describe" a card game!?
08:28:35LinusNnow we're talking lots of work...
08:29:14BluechipI suppose you could invent what was required for one game and add to it as required
08:29:23Bluechipcould get messy
08:30:35LinusNthink so
08:30:59LinusNi think it would be better to do a slightly lower level api
08:31:15LinusNa scripting lang is noce of course
08:31:21Bluechipyou can take a look at what I have if you are interested
08:37:43 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (
08:48:03LinusNi think what you have is a pretty good starting point for a card game
08:48:20LinusNmaybe it would be nice to have the deck gfx in an external file
08:48:42BluechipI think I will add that later - but yes, I agree
08:48:51Bluechipat the moment I am "constructing" the card face
08:49:09Bluechipbut for external gfx, I think that every face should be specified
08:49:33 Join amiconn_ [0] (
08:49:37LinusNyou would also want to clearly separate the "api" from the card game logic, so people could refrain from changing the "core" code
08:50:00BluechipThat would be nice, but not too easy with the current plugin system
08:50:03LinusNmakes it easier to fix core bugs for several games
08:50:18LinusNi mean as a separate section in the source file
08:50:39Bluechipoh yes, is the current version not clearly seperated - i have some better if not
08:50:45LinusNwith a "DO NOT F***ING TOUCH THIS" commens
08:51:09BluechipI would put the C in .h file, but I got told off last time I did that
08:51:26LinusNit's generally frowned upon
08:51:57BluechipHow difficult would it be to have the plugin system allow 2 .c files for a plugin?
08:52:21LinusNit would kind of break the automatic rock creation
08:52:34Bluechipyeah - i thought so
08:52:52LinusNit wants to build a .rock from every .c file
08:53:17Bluechipperhaps we could agree on a .??? extension that would get included?
08:53:40LinusNi'll think about it
08:53:49amiconn_Btw: What's so bad about using .h files? This would also come in handy for my grayscale framework...
08:54:26[IDC]DragonI'm also struggling with the single file restriction
08:54:42LinusNputting code in .h files is Bad Manners(tm)
08:54:46[IDC]Dragonthe JPEG plugin will be a very large spaghetti
08:55:10BluechipMornin' Jo"rg
08:55:43[IDC]Dragonyou can include something else but .h
08:55:55[IDC]Dragoncall it .ch or something, .inc, so long as we can all agree - i think it is aesthetic
08:57:11amiconn_So if it's only because .h means "header", perhaps we could use .i or .inc for "include"?
08:57:26LinusNwe can of course extend the building logic instead
08:57:40Bluechipi think ".i" is generateed by the pre-processor
08:58:23LinusNi'll discuss it with bjorn and daniel, and see if we can come up with a good solution
08:58:33[IDC]Dragonbest would be to have one dir per plugin, in the source tree
08:58:49LinusNmy opinion is that we should aim at extending the building logic to allow for severan c files
08:59:00[IDC]Dragonthen plugins can be modular code
08:59:39BluechipI'm all up for the simple answer - but seperate directories sounds cool too
09:00:11[IDC]Dragonmy JPEG would have at least main, halftone, jpeg, idct, resize
09:01:02Bluechipdisplaying ID3v2 images by any chance?
09:01:12Bluechipnice thing is that 64x64 is a standard in there :)
09:01:24[IDC]Dragonif it's several c files without dir, we'd need some prefixing to tell what belongs together
09:01:51[IDC]DragonBluechip: not in the core, only as a plugin
09:02:09[IDC]Dragonthe JPEG code is fairly large
09:02:41amiconn_Another improvement would be to include a compiler switch to automatically throw out unused code when compiling (very helpful if including frameworks)
09:02:48mattzz[IDC]Dragon: one directory per plugin sounds best.
09:03:16amiconn_mattzz: This doesn't help for files that are intended to be used in several plugins.
09:03:43Bluechipthey can live in a KNOWN directory
09:03:47[IDC]Dragonyou could also include stuff by referencing e.g. to ../grayscale/ or something
09:04:03mattzzamiconn: Is it a matter of the plugin system or a matter of the build system?
09:04:14LinusNbuild system
09:04:42mattzzSo the problem should be fixed where it occurs
09:05:10mattzzany chance of autoconf'ing the process?
09:05:19amiconn_Sorry, gotta hurry.
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09:13:41LinusNamiconn_: kick amiconn?
09:13:59Mode"#rockbox +o LinusN " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
09:16:24*LinusN goes to eat some breakfast
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09:32:39Bluechipif I have a byte with one bit set - what is the easiest way to get the position of that bit?
09:33:15LinusNi'd say a shift and compare
09:33:26LinusNnot necessarily the fastest
09:33:46BluechipI had a suspicion about using logs -although that would perhpas be terribly slow
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09:34:29Bluechipshift and compare it is I think, it doesn't have to be fast
09:34:51LinusNand it is straightforward, easy to understand
09:34:53Bluechip...nice thing about turn based gamaes :)
09:35:34[IDC]Dragonc=0; while (!(byte&1)) c++;
09:35:43Bluechipthank you :)
09:35:48[IDC]Dragonsorry forgot to shift
09:36:34[IDC]Dragon c=0; while (!(byte&1)) { c++; byte>>=1; };
09:37:05Bluechipis >>1 any faster than >>n (n<8)
09:37:10[IDC]Dragonwith nicer indentation, perhaps
09:37:20Bluechipuse for instead of while
09:37:30[IDC]Dragon>>n is terrible
09:37:38[IDC]Dragonthe CPU can't do it
09:37:56[IDC]Dragonso it uses a runtime library function
09:38:13Bluechip>>1 it is then
09:38:45[IDC]DragonLinusN: I've sent you the voice dump
09:40:20LinusNsaw that
09:41:13Bluechip"player 1 draws the ace of spades" :)
09:41:14LinusNwill check it later
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09:42:42LinusNBluechip: from the sleeve or what? :-)
09:42:57LinusNwho shuffled that deck?
09:43:06Bluechiplol - did you enjoy the video clips then?
09:43:20LinusNi smell a side steal here :-)
09:43:31BluechipI only do that stuff at parties now
09:44:29BluechipThat site is covered in subliminals
09:47:25BluechipMy favourite is the slightly dialated pupils in the solar flare on the front page
09:48:34LinusNlooks good
09:48:49LinusNbut the rest of the gfx is very nintendoish :-)
09:49:23BluechipLOL - yes, you can tell that gfx really isn't my forte
09:49:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:49:44BluechipA friend who is a professional artist gave me some tips on how to make the front page look good
09:50:03BluechipI did it ...but, in fairness, under much instruction
09:50:56LinusN"under construction"
09:51:05Bluechipisn't it always?
09:51:12LinusNexactly my point
09:51:24Bluechipdid you like my clock?
09:51:36Bluechiphides under "now"
09:51:46LinusNyeah saw that, nice
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09:54:18LinusNwhat about the "past" and "future" links?
09:54:28Bluechip"under construction"
09:54:54Bluechipi stopped doing it to fix the winsim back in december and never went back to it
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10:34:56dwihnoLinusN: Do you have any 8mb memory units around? :)
10:35:42Bluechipsomeone was flogging a few on the group the other day
10:42:27LinusNdwihno: nope
10:53:52[IDC]Dragonyou mean chips or a box?
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11:59:17monkeyalright since someone asked today on the ml and i was just wondering...
12:00:04monkeyif i were to get a replacement HD with 8MB of ram would that be as useful as the 8MB mod?
12:00:51monkeywould it only help in the amount the disk has to spin to get files?
12:01:12Bluechipas i understand, the spin down command flushes the cache
12:01:33Bluechipwhich is real dumb - but sadly out of our control
12:01:40monkeyso we wouldnt be able to keep data in the cache
12:02:48Bluechipas I understand it is impossible (i hate that word)
12:02:51monkeyoh so it wouldnt even help with songs because the unit only has 2MB and no matter how much we have it would only store 2MB?
12:03:15Bluechip2MB -firmware -plugins -playlist -other
12:04:07monkeynother quick question then... why is the 8MB mod the largest that is possible?
12:04:19Bluechipsorry, dont know that one
12:04:45monkeythats ok thanks for the clarification about the HD tho
12:05:12Bluechipthe most important thing with the new HDD is power consumption
12:05:22lImbusand silence ?
12:06:00Bluechipsilence second?
12:06:04monkeypower consumption needs to be compatible with old drive... or needs to be low not to drain the batteries?
12:06:25Bluechipthinking battery life
12:06:55Bluechipi wonder how things are with putting a 1.8" in it
12:07:27monkeyi was wondering that too... but where does one pick up a 1.8"?
12:08:29monkeyguess you could pick up an ipod that has expired
12:08:35 Quit [IDC]Dragon ("no fate but what we make (EOF)")
12:08:39monkeythere should be tons of those
12:11:55lImbuswould it help if I open the archos I bought on ebay with an 40 GB HD already build in to tell you the brand and model ?
12:12:35monkeynah replacement drives are listed on the site
12:13:06monkeybut those are 2.5"
12:17:07lImbusfurthermore, I can't find it.
12:19:13monkeycant find what?
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13:29:06[IDC]Dragonwhat are you laughing about?
13:30:21Bluechiphey Dragon, please confirm for me that the screen is 64pixels high
13:31:12mattzz|work[IDC]Dragon: just checked out the irc thing
13:33:15Bluechipmaybe there are 65 pixel high? 0...64 ?
13:33:25Bluechipthere are -> it is
13:33:45Bluechip(geez this is supposed to be my first language)
13:35:51[IDC]Dragonmattzz|work: seems to be working
13:49:35***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:51:27[IDC]DragonBluechip: screen is 112*64 (sorry for ignoring you, wasn't intentional)
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13:52:21Bluechipcheers Dragon - just a moment of confusion for me - had it fixed in my head it was 65 - no idea why
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13:58:01DBUGEnqueued KICK Bluechip
13:58:01Bluechip"" ...cute
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14:24:36lImbusBluechip: is there a prob ? is that lame ? or are you just jealous of my 3.3 Mb/s downstream with 768k up ?
14:25:36Bluechipno, no, yes, and more accurately it was a giggle at the Terminator reference - amused that and ISP got "skynet"
14:27:00Bluechipactually make that "yes" a "sort of" ...the bandwidth is not so relevant as you are most likely not capped on daily downloads
14:27:03lImbusit's the "first" isp of belgium, tied to the first belgium telecom operator belgacom
14:27:33BluechipUK providers suck
14:27:38Bluechip...all of them
14:28:20BluechipI get 600/128 with a 1GB daily limit for £25/month
14:29:48lImbusohh. to finish it: we havn't got any problems like the germans have with FastPath / Interleave.
14:30:24lImbushaving a ping less than 40 in some of the famous first person shooters is not rare
14:30:34CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
14:30:34*Bluechip looks blank - lol
14:31:27lImbuswhut does that mean ?
14:31:41Bluechip"FastPath / Interleave." no idea :(
14:31:56Bluechipfast ping - i understand though
14:33:09lImbuscan't remember which of them is good or bad too, but one of em is the ususal adsl-coding. fast and neat. the other one is a coding rather specialized for atm and or video-streaming, where MORE packages are packed otherwise. it makes you > 200 ms
14:33:54Bluechipcool - ta :)
14:34:31Bluechipi guess the interleaving one is probably the video thing
14:34:41lImbusas a burst usually destroys one frame, the video stream is broken for that frame, and rerequesting the data for the frame is obvisuously useless as obsolete.
14:35:17lImbuswhen packed otherwise, it just destroys one bit of every pack, what can be recalculated by the packs proper repairing mechanism
14:36:14lImbusnice for video, totally useless in games. now german telekom allowes you to switch, but charges you about 10 euro
14:36:32lImbusso, no I'm gonna have my lunch, we'll see later
14:36:41Bluechipwe get "cable" here
14:36:46Bluechipthat's it
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14:37:33BluechipI love being British!
14:41:51c0uttaany diff experts here ?
14:42:29Bluechipno promises, but i can try
14:42:31mattzz|workwell I mostly understand man pages ;-)
14:43:09c0uttai (stupidly) submitted a file to cvs that had cr/lf
14:43:46Bluechipsorry, never solved that one myself - mk's clock had/has the same problem
14:44:03c0uttai'm trying to do a diff to remove the offending characters but can't get it to work
14:44:34Bluechipfrom the diff file, or from your source
14:44:49pfavrI wouldn't expect diff to be able to work on the CR/LF - but I'm no expert.
14:45:15c0uttawhen i diff against cvs i g et a wonderful diff, but the patch fails with HUNK errors
14:45:23pfavrI usually use tr to remove the cr
14:45:50pfavrtr -d '\r' <infile >outfile
14:46:05c0uttai think i need the cvs copy fixed tho
14:46:44c0uttai'm using ultraedit so i can remove the cr easily by doing a DOS->UNIX
14:46:56BluechipI like ultraedit :)
14:47:01c0uttathe diff recognises that every line is different
14:47:18c0uttaso it is working, but maybe it's patch ?
14:47:22Bluechipyes, you can make an "entire file" patch to fix cvs maybe?
14:47:53c0uttaprobably easier to get a developer (hint, hint) to do it for me
14:48:14Bluechipohhh, you'll be in for a favour for that - lol
14:49:21c0uttaand the silence was deafening from the developers...
14:52:37*LinusN looks the other way
14:57:38c0uttacan you do me a favour linus ?
14:58:41Bluechipbeg harder damn you - LOL
14:58:55c0uttapretty please
15:12:22LinusNwhat is the prob?
15:13:20c0uttaaction.h has the cr/lf combination
15:13:43c0uttait seems to be messing up the diff/patch process
15:17:37LinusNit has cr/lf in cvs?
15:18:13 Join lImbus [0] (
15:18:58lImbusmhmm. not yet really familiar with that irc thingy. can anyone recommend a windows-irc-client ?
15:19:31c0uttaLinus: yes
15:19:40LinusNc0utta: fixed
15:19:49c0uttathanks linus
15:20:09c0uttalImbus: you'll start a flame ware :)
15:20:24LinusNlImbus: xchat (
15:21:14lImbusok, does it handle identd for ircnet ?
15:21:36c0uttalImbus: hydrairc (
15:22:46Bluechiplimbus - what os?
15:23:05lImbushö ?
15:23:16BluechipmIrc is standard, but a bit overkill
15:23:17lImbusargl. kvirc is NOT great
15:23:47BluechipTrillian is simple and does all the other IM clients as well
15:24:04Bluechipalthough setup is a bit of an arse in trillian - easier to edit the .ini files by hand
15:24:13lImbusbersirc is nicely small, has almost no feature (exactly as I want it) but beta.
15:24:23lImbusmhmm. what about gaim, another irc/im hybride
15:26:44Bluechipgot as far as trill and stopped
15:27:05Bluechipit does everything I want excluding ignore in irc
15:34:19lImbusdoesn't it lack jabber ?
15:34:30Bluechipyes, no jabber
15:34:40Bluechipalthough a plugin is rumoured
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22:40:25mattzzwtf!? cvs @ sourceforge down?
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22:48:39mattzzamiconn: are you there?
22:51:27amiconnyup. (Just coding in parallel)
22:52:09mattzzI am curious about the tweaking you did to mandelbrot ;-) I have it running with 28 bit fractional part now.
22:52:59mattzz2.15secs@15 iterations
22:53:20mattzzgreyscale is next
22:54:07amiconnShould I paste the inner loop here? (quite some lines). DCC perhaps? Or should I put it on the web?
22:54:46mattzzperhaps mail is the best solution. m.wientapper at gmx dot de
22:54:52amiconn(My version still has 16 bit fractions)
22:55:05mattzzbooooohoooo ;-)
22:55:08 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (
22:55:31mattzzaha, joerg at home already
22:55:47[IDC]Dragonyes, so soon, just came in.
22:56:00mattzzthat was nearly a day off, heh?
22:56:02amiconnmattzz: btw, just squeezed another 5 % speedup out of grayscale :) (*very* tricky)
22:56:20mattzzevery bit here and there...
22:56:26[IDC]Dragonmattzz: how's the color mandelbrot?
22:56:55mattzzaccuracy first. I am at 28 bit fractional part now and it works fine
22:57:14mattzzbetter than toastbrot!
22:57:16[IDC]Dragonwhow, serious?
22:57:39mattzzyup, 2.15secs@15 iterations for the start set
22:58:01[IDC]Dragondoes it look better when zooming in?
22:58:08mattzzand jens will send me some speedy tweaks - as usual ;-)
22:58:31[IDC]DragonI guess it's fully in asm by now
22:58:45amiconnNot yet ;-)
22:58:46mattzzjens' version surely is
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22:59:44MF|SuPwhen will the manual for 2.2 be out?
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23:00:26MF|SuPis anyone here?
23:00:39mattzzMF|SuP: sure, but I dont know the answer
23:01:06MF|SuPo.k i got one more questioin. does anyone have a sample wps file that i can see
23:01:33amiconnmattzz: mail sent.
23:01:39mattzzamiconn: thanks
23:02:00scott666_the rockbox default is at the bottom of the wps page
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23:02:24MF|SuPone sec
23:02:55MF|SuPwhat is the wps page? i am sort of new to this
23:03:30 Quit uski ("Fermeture du client")
23:03:56MF|SuPnevermind i found it. thank you
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23:06:25mattzzamiconn: It's always the simple things.... no mail here yet
23:07:26mattzzamiconn: dcc is also fine
23:08:14amiconnhmm, will try. Last time I tried it with Linus it didn't work..
23:09:39mattzzamiconn: argh, I am firewalled. stupid me.
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23:13:34mattzzamiconn: thanx
23:15:11amiconn[IDC]Dragon: I wonder which is better: I'm comparing 2 grayscale core routines. The old one has the same speed regardless of old and new pixel value, while the new one is faster if there are fewer bits to change.
23:16:02[IDC]DragonI guess nobody expects constant runtime
23:16:45amiconnBest case (no bits to change): +14%, worst case -6 % against old routine. Average speedup +3 %
23:16:45[IDC]Dragonwhat's the speed range?
23:17:07[IDC]Dragonnot much...
23:17:35amiconnYes, really. This gets _very_ tricky to optimize further...
23:19:07[IDC]DragonLet's use it first, befor optimizing like crazy
23:21:05amiconnIm trying to optimize that hard because someone (BC) already thought of using it for *realtime* 3D (!!)
23:21:35[IDC]Dragonwishful thinking
23:22:06scott666bluechip thinks of lots of things :-ž
23:22:16amiconnHmm. Not completely impossible, I think. At least when using only a part of the display...
23:24:48mattzzbamm! 1.70 ses @ 15 interations. We have a new record, gentlemen.
23:25:34mattzzThanks, Mr. Jens "3%" Arnold ;-)
23:25:51amiconnThis is 28 bits fraction combined with my tweaks, I guess?
23:26:28mattzz that will be default
23:26:38mattzznow comes the greyscale stuff
23:27:33amiconnIf you want to render grayscale as fast as possible: switch on the overlay only after rendering is done.
23:27:53amiconnThe drawback is of course that you can't watch it working.
23:29:10mattzzI am thinking about greyscale and b&w as different options. Watching it working has a great charme.
23:32:41[IDC]Dragonmattzz: when moving, how about recalculating only the new part?
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23:34:57mattzz[IDC]Dragon: good idea!
23:36:44[IDC]Dragonand you update the whole screen for every line. Do you know you can update only a part?
23:37:24amiconnAnother suggestion (probably easier): Update only after completing a line.
23:37:42amiconnWhoops, nonsense.
23:37:55[IDC]Dragonupdate every 8 lines.
23:38:05[IDC]Dragonwith lcd_update_rect()
23:38:09mattzzamiconn: that's what am currently doing
23:38:41mattzz[IDC]Dragon: would that improve speed a lot?
23:39:24mattzzupdating every 8 lines. I dont know how timing intensive the lcd update thing is
23:39:47[IDC]Dragoncurrently, you update the whole screen 64 times. That should take about half a second.
23:40:07amiconnThis is much like my 3%...
23:40:07mattzz[IDC]Dragon: OK, _that's_ an argument
23:40:33[IDC]Dragon3% ?
23:40:54mattzzI called Jens Mr. 3%
23:41:08amiconnActually, it is even significantly less ;)
23:41:37[IDC]Dragon(I'm missing something)
23:41:54amiconnHmm, apparently something is wrong with my calculation abilities today.
23:42:35amiconnOf course it is more.
23:44:23[IDC]Dragonmattzz: some more speed hints:
23:44:24mattzzdo we have a decision on the include file topic (subdirectories for every plugin)?
23:44:39[IDC]Dragon- counting loops backwards to 0 is faster
23:45:01[IDC]Dragon- you can calculate b outside of the ineer for loop
23:46:00 Part LinusN
23:46:00[IDC]Dragonbut it's probably all insignificant as long as it's not the iteration itself
23:46:44[IDC]Dragon- tail loops are faster
23:48:00mattzz[IDC]Dragon: yeah might not be significant, but you are suggesting faster and better coding style. So I do appreciate that.
23:49:45***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:58:11[IDC]Dragonhmm, tail loop for the iteration was a bit slower

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