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#rockbox log for 2004-05-27

00:04:00mattzzamiconn: what did you do this time? ;-)
00:04:15*mattzz gets his box plugged
00:06:04amiconnNot "this time". This function was already in the first lib version of grayscale (one week ago).
00:06:53amiconnI've written an optimized pixel routine that writes 8 pixels at once (The 8 pixels that belong to the same byte in each bitplane)
00:07:46amiconnThis is used by e.g. gray_drawgraymap() for all pixel that cover "full bytes"
00:08:17amiconnSo to use it for mandelbrot and make it look smooth at the same time, I would recommend the following:
00:08:47amiconn(1) "Flip" you for() loops to draw column by column instead of row by row
00:09:51amiconn(2) Reserve an 1 pixel wide graymap with the screen height ( unsigned char graybuffer[LCD_HEIGHT] ) and render each column into that
00:10:39amiconn(3) After rendering the complete column call gray_drawgraymap(x, 0, 1, LCD_HEIGHT, 1); to put it on the screen
00:12:21amiconnIf you don't want to draw a whole column at once, use a graymap 8 pixels high and draw every 8 pixels at once
00:14:34mattzzhm, should be easy to do. Much faster due to less display accesses? Or is gray_drawgraymap much faster anyway?
00:15:17amiconnThe display accesses are constant regardless of how much you draw.
00:17:11amiconnThe cpu intensive part with drawing is dissecting every byte into bits and put these bits into various other bytes.
00:18:25amiconnThe new routine which is used for 8-pixel blocks is faster "per pixel" compared with the single-pixel routine
00:20:42mattzzI will implement the changes you suggested. Thanks a lot. Only a fast mandelbrot is a good mandelbrot ;-)
00:25:01amiconnI've heavily improved grayscale meanwhile, this is not yet committed though (needs documentation, testing)
00:25:54amiconnThere will be an api change: Most drawing functions will no longer have parameters for foreground, background and drawing mode,
00:26:42amiconnThere will be functions that set these for all following drawing functions until changed again.
00:27:04amiconnThere will be more draw modes available, for all functions
00:27:23amiconnNo more separate draw_line, invert_line etc.
00:28:13 Quit edx ()
00:28:57mattzzwill the api be backward compatible or should all existing grayscale apps be changed?
00:28:59amiconnAnd finally: 1-bit bitmap output (with fg & bg) and hence also fonts output will be sped up by the same amount that was already done to 8-bit bitmaps
00:29:31mattzzsounds very promising!
00:29:45amiconnThe only function that remains compatible will be gray_drawgraymap(), all other function calls have to be adapted
00:29:46 Quit AciD ("tabarnack jva finir par le pitcher par la fenêtre le criss d'ordi")
00:30:30amiconn(This does of course only apply to the drawing functions; the init/release/scroll etc will remain compatible)
00:32:59amiconnThere are only 2 "real" grayscale apps atm (not counting my demo)
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00:58:53mattzzamiconn: gray_drawgraymap uses graybuffer automatically?
00:59:31amiconn? Which graybuffer do you mean ?
01:00:26mattzzin (2) you recommended reserving an array graybuffer
01:00:49amiconnOoops, I forgot an argument:
01:01:32amiconngray_drawgraymap(graybuffer, x, 0, 1, LCD_HEIGHT, 1);
01:01:43mattzzok, that's the missing link
01:02:55amiconnI'm currently working on a very interesting bit scrambling routine - this may speed up that 8-bit block drawing further - up to 50%
01:03:39amiconnUnfortunately, this only holds true for larger bit depths, for small depths it will be slower (break even is ~8 bitplanes)
01:03:56amiconnThis is a real assembler monster, though
01:05:27mattzzdoes it have to be a column? mandelbrot _is_ much faster now - but painting from right to left looks odd
01:06:08mattzz(at least it should be from right to left)
01:06:14amiconnWhy do you paint from right to left? Are we Chinese?
01:06:32*mattzz learned a view word arabic last week
01:07:19amiconnJust do it from left to right, should work this way
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01:08:15mattzzthat was for the sake of speed. for loops counting down... you remember?
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01:09:01amiconnAh ok. This was suggested by Jörg i guess? It shouldn't matter much, at least for the outer loop.
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01:09:20RedLegAnybody know anything about getting voice prompts working?
01:09:41mattzzthere was a nice howto written by aman in the mailinglist yesterday
01:09:59RedLegAh.... thanks, I go have a look in the archives....
01:10:04mattzzfirst you will need a daily build and the voicefile
01:12:27mattzzamiconn: why not use a line as a pixel bitmap array?
01:13:32amiconnBecause there is no such this as a grayscale line? Lines are drawn in one shade the.
01:14:13amiconn(And lines don't use the block drawing function)
01:15:17amiconn( although in my local version there are special functions for horizontal and vertical lines. Vertical lines do use the block drawing now, but are still drawn in one shade)
01:17:29mattzzrendering a line instead of a column would really make a difference?
01:18:13amiconn(1) How do you want to set different shades for each pixel of the line?
01:18:31mattzzin the same way I did for the column
01:18:46amiconn(2) Lines don't use the block drawing, because they can be any angle.
01:19:00mattzzah, I think you got me wrong
01:19:35amiconnAh ok, you mean using gray_drawgraymap for a horizontal "line"?
01:19:43 Quit pfavr ("ChatZilla 0.9.52B [Mozilla rv:1.6/1]")
01:20:02amiconnThis would be much slower, because the block drawing won't be used.
01:20:33amiconnThis is because of the screen buffer layout (the same crazy layout that is used within the lcd)
01:21:12mattzzok. I was just wondering in case I implemented the "incremental compute and scroll scheme"
01:21:24mattzzfor moving around the mandelbrot set
01:21:52amiconnEach byte within one bitplane of the screen buffer corresponds to an 1x8 pixel array (1 horizontal, 8 vertical)
01:22:25mattzzOk, then it makes perfect sense to me that horizontal bitmap drawing is much slower
01:22:48amiconnYou _can_ do that (even fast-working) if you scroll up/down by 8 pixels
01:23:14amiconnLeft/right scrolling can be done by any pixel amount without much speed impact
01:24:14mattzzguess 8 is the magic number again
01:24:29amiconnBtw: Did you notice the difference in vertical scrolling speed with the jpeg viewer if you approach the top/bottom edge and the last scroll step is less than 8 pixels?
01:25:12mattzzno, I havent played much with the jpeg viewer yet
01:25:38mattzzbut I will watch out for that effect
01:26:41mattzzshould I submit the patch to patchtracker?
01:26:55mattzz(talking about the even_faster_mandelbrot)
01:27:07amiconnIf it works well - yes please.
01:32:08mattzz[x] patch submitted
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01:41:21amiconnmattzz: Did you measure how much faster it is?
01:41:55mattzzno. but it feels minimum twice as fast
01:42:30amiconnIt seems to be that it isn't _that_ much faster - probably the mandelbrot calculation needs the most cpu power
01:43:46amiconnAnother hint: As there is now font support within grayscale, you could re-introduce the time and iteration display
01:43:48mattzzthe horizontal drawing direction gives a pretty speedy touch also
01:46:08amiconnNevertheless it seems to yield ~10..20% speedup, and works well. Shall I commit?
01:51:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:53:30RedLegUpdate: Voice works for me now. Thanks all!
01:54:07mattzztime to go to bed...
01:54:13mattzz...for me
01:54:23RedLegmattzz: or out to dinner....
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01:54:57mattzznite jens, thanks for the nice chat
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01:55:48amiconnnite matthias
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02:04:29Llamaihow do i make this voice work
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05:30:43TheDude2nite all
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06:48:26ChefGerryis anyone around?
06:48:45ChefGerryhi midk
06:48:49midkhey what's up?
06:48:58ChefGerryi'm good thanks
06:49:10ChefGerrya bit tired, going to bed soon
06:49:12ChefGerryhow are you?
06:49:24midkgood also
06:49:25ChefGerryare you familiar with the Archos GMINI?
06:49:31midknot too well
06:50:41midkgot a problem?
06:50:45midki may be able to help
06:51:12ChefGerryits a combination mp3 player/recorder and photo wallet (has a CF slot built-in). it also supports recording of voice (built-in microphone) or SPDIF/analog input to mp3 or wav
06:51:30midki know about it
06:51:33midki'm just not a pro with it
06:51:37ChefGerrythe hardware is excellent, the software could be improved :)
06:51:49midklol, i'm sure it could
06:51:53ChefGerrywould you happen to know what embedded OS it uses?
06:52:04midkembedded os? just archos firmware
06:52:15ChefGerryspecifically, i'm wondering if custom firmware could be developed using the rockbox framework
06:52:17ChefGerryoh really
06:52:26midkactually somebody was working on the gmini
06:52:33ChefGerryi need to get in touch with him/her
06:52:41ChefGerryi have some ideas on making it a lot better
06:52:54ChefGerryand i'm sure these are just software limitations
06:53:17midkthey probably are
06:53:21midkit's just a lot of work
06:55:20ChefGerryi bet
06:55:38ChefGerryare you a rockbox developer?
06:56:40midksort of
06:56:46midki created the clock plugin
06:56:53midki've got a major update on it though
06:56:55midki don't like it as is
06:57:10midkworking on a binary mode right now, to see what i've got so far you can check the patches page
06:57:18midkoh you probably have a gmini :)
06:58:00ChefGerryyes :)
06:58:18midkah never mind that then lol
06:58:30ChefGerryi'm browsing the mail list archives
06:58:36ChefGerryand have found some references to the gmini
06:59:35ChefGerrythe GMINI is one of the few recorders I know of that allow recording to WAV
06:59:58ChefGerryactually it's only 1 of 2 that i know of, the other being the creative jukebox
07:00:17midki have an av320 too
07:00:19midkit does WAV
07:01:05ChefGerryoh nice
07:01:21ChefGerrythat's the model with the large display?
07:02:02midkfull color videos :)
07:02:11midk*enjoys matrix reloaded on the bus
07:02:36ChefGerrythat's an awesome unit
07:02:58midkthe os isn't that bad
07:03:02midkbut avos is in progress
07:05:07ChefGerryi wish archos was more supportive of this project.. but i can understand why they'd be hesitant to do so
07:05:22midki don't −− it's only gaining them customers
07:06:59ChefGerrythey're probaby worried about a tech support nightmare.. having to take calls about inoperative players due to firmware hackig
07:07:33midkif you follow the directions you'll be fine
07:07:46midkalthough some people did do it wrong and archos got stuck with it
07:07:49midkbut they are evil
07:08:12midkthey send an email to the head of avos saying "if you don't fix your firmware bug we'll just charge the customers a $100 reflashing fee!"
07:08:40midk*pictures evil archos head with scary face like this: >:D
07:14:18ChefGerrythere are tonnes of stuff for the av320
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07:24:31ChefGerryhey midk, it was good talking to you.. i've gotta get to bed
07:24:39midkok nite
07:24:49midkyou have the gmini 220 right
07:24:50ChefGerryi'll be back :)
07:24:52ChefGerryi have the 120
07:24:54ChefGerrynot the 220
07:25:06midkoh mkay
07:25:08midkok see you
07:25:57ChefGerrythe 220 apparently does not have an spdif in :(
07:27:03ChefGerryhey, it appears that they've discontinued the 120
07:27:10ChefGerryit's no longer on their website
07:27:55midkoh really?
07:28:24ChefGerrythey've replaced it with a GMINI SP 20, which doesn't have the CF slot and doesn't record
07:29:50ChefGerrythe 220 is a nice unit but without an spdif input it doesn't quite serve my purposes
07:30:18ChefGerrymaybe i need to upgrade to the AV320
07:30:43midkooh lol
07:30:53midkyes i thought the 220 looked cool
07:30:55midkwith the photo viewer
07:31:06midkalthough i was just wondering how nice it looked on the gray lc
07:31:26ChefGerryoooh, the 320 has spdif in AND out
07:31:58midkdoes it?
07:32:06midk*retrieves av from tv area
07:32:15midki had fun projecting videos onto the tv :D
07:32:20ChefGerryso it plays and records wav eh?
07:32:27ChefGerryinteresting how archos doesn't advertise that feature
07:32:39midkyes, it's only new in a firmware update
07:32:45midkaudio out / spdif out
07:32:52midker wait
07:32:55midkaudio in / spdif
07:33:00midkaudio out / video out
07:33:06midki guess "spdif" is in OR out?
07:33:14ChefGerryi see
07:33:47ChefGerryStereo analog Line In & digital SPDIF Line In/Out. Composite Video/ Earphone/ Line Out jack. Built-in microphone.
07:34:03ChefGerryhmm maybe they got the analog and spdif mixed up?
07:34:04midkmust be
07:34:17ChefGerryoh wait
07:34:19ChefGerrythere's the line out
07:34:23ChefGerrywhatever :)
07:35:14midki like the cover over the mic
07:35:26midkit's very thin and vulnerable tin-foil-type mesh
07:35:35midki like to push it all the time
07:35:39ChefGerryok :)
07:35:47midki also like taking off the side thing and putting it back on
07:35:49midkit's quite fin
07:35:51midkfun* :D
07:35:57ChefGerrythe mic mesh on my gmini is quite sturdy
07:36:04midkyeah i was kidding
07:36:09midki think it's pretty sturdy
07:36:11midkwonder if its the same
07:36:18midkdoes it have a sort of raised area in the middle?
07:36:33midka lump
07:36:52midkooh same
07:36:54 Join LinusN [200] (
07:37:00midkhi LinusN
07:37:14ChefGerryi recognise this name
07:37:18ChefGerryhi linusN :)
07:37:43midklinus i just finished a binary clock mode for my clock
07:37:50midkand i also JUST remembered i forgot to draw it to the lcd.
07:38:08LinusNhello d00dz!
07:38:12ChefGerryoops :)
07:38:17ChefGerryit's a hidden clock
07:38:21midkit sure is
07:38:25midkit also locks up the box :D
07:38:51midki think i have a nasty bug.
07:39:01midkmy snprintf'd text is quite garbled
07:39:13ChefGerryso is the development done in C?
07:39:20LinusNChefGerry: yup
07:39:24ChefGerryah cool
07:40:22ChefGerryLinusN: i have dreams about implementing something for me GMINI 120
07:41:14midkI SEE WHAT I DID WRONG!!
07:41:17midki think
07:41:25midki forgot to safely remove it.
07:41:28LinusNwow, midk finds his own bugs! :-=
07:41:52midki used to always rip the cable out of my fm
07:41:58midkwith this rec15 i always have to safely remove it
07:42:05midkand it always says "cannot remove at this time"
07:42:09midkbut it still seems to work
07:42:16LinusNmidk: i was thinking of moving the 7-segment code to the plugin library
07:42:26midki updated it, did you see?
07:42:31midkthere's two tyoes
07:42:40midkbut hmm for what?
07:42:44midkdo other plugins need it?
07:43:29LinusNwell, not sure :-)
07:43:52midkif you want to you can
07:43:52LinusNi remember that i thought of a nother use for it when i wrote it
07:44:13midki must have more gfx!
07:45:37LinusNmidk: i sent you a bitswap.c ages ago, did you try it?
07:45:48midkoh, i couldn't get it to compile
07:46:08midki was going to ask you about it + got caught up in other things, sorru
07:47:38midki'm getting a new pc soon
07:47:42midkthus increasing my productivity
07:47:53midkthe tetris update may well be done this year :)
07:48:34midkactually, wait, it's already almost june... maybe next year ;)
07:50:34midki need to improve hand drawing
07:51:57midkoh yeah, did you have a look at that button rate function?
07:52:01midki haven't thought about breakout in a bit
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07:55:12ChefGerryok, i really need to get to sleep
07:55:16ChefGerryi'll be back :)
07:55:18ChefGerrygood night guys
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07:56:19midkah same
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10:16:25mattzzhi folx
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10:34:37 Join Bagder [241] (
10:35:08LinusNyo Bagder
10:37:36Bagderso, in the old curl CVS repos, I've just removed the root makefile ;-)
10:37:59Bagderwe could modify the configure script or something in the old rockbox cvs
10:40:04LinusNbjörn mentioned changing "readers"
10:40:27Bagderah, right
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14:43:39amiconnhi all
14:52:21amiconnLinusN, Bagder: Recently I announced my updated voice files on the ml. Is it possible to provide voice files on the rockbox hp?
14:53:11amiconnThere are voice files available currently, but (1) iirc these are not up to date
14:54:04amiconnand (2) there are several voices files per language available in various places of the web
14:54:52amiconnAs the voice files are binary, these are not in cvs, so how could we deal with them?
14:54:57LinusNvarious places?
14:55:12LinusNah, ic what u mean
14:55:20amiconnYes: Jörg's hp, Arnaud's, mine ...
14:58:07LinusNwe should extend the d/l web page to allow for several versions of the voice files
14:58:50LinusNboth release versions and voice variants
14:59:29LinusNat least a 2.3 version plus a "bleeding edge"
14:59:57amiconnYup. E.g. I have 5 variants of the english.voice available, produced with different voices
15:00:03LinusNalso, we should have the voice generation scripts in CVS
15:00:55amiconnAgreed. Is CVS able to deal with windows script as-is, i.e. with CRLF line ends?
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20:04:16maedhrosHelp! I get an "ata error: -52" when I turn on my JBR20!
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20:08:32maedhrosHelp! I get an "ata error: -52" when I turn on my JBR20!
20:09:25maedhrosI don't think it's the batteries this time... I just charged them for two hours, and the error still show up when I plug the archos
20:11:42uskidoes the disk spinsup ?
20:11:47uskidid you drop the archos ?
20:12:12maedhrosI have dropped it -several- times.. but not lately, no...
20:12:12uskido you hear unusual sounds when powering the unit on ?
20:12:19maedhrosbut I just set the batteries to charge
20:12:45maedhrosI'll charge it fully (like 14hrs), then I'll get back to you..
20:12:59maedhrosjust to make sure..
20:13:23mattzz_does the LCD background light flicker?
20:13:30maedhrosthey always do...
20:13:41maedhrosno matter how well charged the batteries are
20:14:04mattzz_a bit flickering is ok
20:14:20uskimine doesn't flicker at all
20:14:32maedhrosbut hypotetically (is that how it is spelled?), let's say the batteries are empty, and I load the archos fimware (F1)... what would happen?
20:14:34uskiflickering is not a good thing, it may indicate some problem with the DC/DC converter
20:14:41maedhroswould I get a read error there as well?
20:14:46uskimaedhros: it will say "HD error"
20:14:55maedhrosprob. batteries then...
20:15:00uskibut 2 hours charging should be ok for a correct startup
20:15:04maedhrosI got some sort of hd read error..
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20:15:24uskiunfortunately i think that the problem is not related to batteries as you charged the unit for 2 hours
20:15:33uskianyway, you can try a full charge
20:15:40maedhrosI'll do that
20:15:40uskidoes the HDD spins up ?
20:15:47maedhrosI don't remember
20:17:14maedhrosK.. found some fully charged ones... HDD does not spin up.. same error
20:17:42maedhrosthat is.. it makes some low noise.. like it's trying to spin up
20:18:01uskihow old is your JBR20 ?
20:18:06maedhrossounds like a car with a flat battery
20:18:14maedhrosi dunno two-three years?
20:18:26uskiok, so warranty is expired
20:18:34uskiyou may want to try it with another harddrive
20:18:43maedhroshehe, I've opened it too.. so warranty is out of the question :P
20:18:45uskior you can also try the harddrive on some other unit
20:19:10maedhroswhat kinda unit would that be?
20:19:22uski(a laptop, an external usb2 HDD adapter, into a regular PC with a 2"5->3"5 adapter, in another archos, ...)
20:19:49uskihere we can buy a selfpowered USB2 adapter for 2"5 disks for 20 euros
20:20:17maedhrosk... here in norway that kind ofequipment is quite expensive...
20:20:25maedhroswhere is 'here', by the way?
20:21:08uski16,95 euros including VAT + shipping
20:25:58uskidid you flash your JBR ?
20:28:13maedhrosIt's actually a mitacle that it has worked so long..
20:28:41maedhrosabout half a year ago, i drowned the whole thing in this pond... and it still worked
20:31:56limbusmaedhros uski: such selfpowered USB2 adapters are avaiable in germany too for about 30 euro (exkl. shipping)
20:33:22maedhrosdo I have to stars soldering to remove the HDD?
20:34:35uskino soldering required
20:34:51uskionly a torx screwdriver
20:36:27maedhroshow much does a 2,5" >3,5" adapter cost?
20:36:41uski10 euros here
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20:37:18maedhrosgotta run now
20:38:24maedhrosthanks for the help!
20:39:09uskisee ya
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23:11:21Straththere thats better...
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