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#rockbox log for 2004-06-02

00:29:24 Quit NibbIer (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
01:17:57 Quit AciD` (""Linux ? Ya moins bien, mais c'est plus cher"")
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04:43:11 Nick BC|bbl is now known as BC (
05:27:10 Join scott666 [0] (
05:31:19BChey scotty
05:31:40BCanything new?
05:31:54scott666just finished playing Grim Fandango
05:32:05BCenjoy it?
05:32:22scott666i cant remember what happened to the original cds, so i had to download it
05:32:33BCi finished geek mode mdb and am doing digital clip warning now
05:33:23BCi enjoy coding - actually use my brain to program rather then program my brain
05:34:06scott666but would you be able to program if your brain hadnt been programmed?
05:34:24*scott666 raises an eyebrow
05:34:26BCnot if it were programmed by others
05:34:50*BC matches your raised eyebrow with a slight pull back of the head
05:35:38scott666know of any other good lucas arts adventure games?
05:35:47BCthe dig
05:35:51scott666im going shopping at sugrnova
05:35:51BCmy all time fave
05:36:13BCall broken sword adventures - not lucas art but very much in the same vain
05:36:22scott666they dont have the dig
05:36:46scott666they have broken sword 2
05:36:56BCbroken sword 3 will be there - but you are better t play the first two first :(
05:37:15scott666it isnt...
05:38:07BCdig is a full cd with speech :(
05:38:54BCday of the tentacle is an ancient classic - but DO get the speech version
05:40:21scott666closest they have is 'daytona USA'
05:42:26scott666sam and max hit the road finished
05:42:56BCdidnt like that one so much
05:43:07scott666never played it
05:43:12scott666heard good things though
05:43:22BCI know many who did enjoy it
05:43:32BCfull throttle was great except the stupid figthing bit in the middle
05:43:44BC....have you played the monkey island or simon the sourcerer adventures?
05:46:51scott666i have all of the monkey islands
05:47:03scott6663 is by far my favorite
05:47:15BCdefend yourself you mighty foe
05:47:39scott666i remember starting full throttle but never getting anywhere
05:47:45scott666never played simon the sourceror
05:48:08BCthe dig - go use emule or something - take a risk :)
05:48:59scott666wow...they have cracks for games that are 10 years old?
05:49:01BCfind a russian ftp search engine :)
05:51:26scott666all i found on kazaa was dig dug
05:54:56***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:01:40scott666i give up, finding old games is impossible
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07:16:26 Join LinusN [200] (
07:21:36 Part scott666
07:27:02BCMornin' Linus
07:53:59LinusNBC: what did Jörg tell you about the "low level access for plugins"?
07:54:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:55:37BChe didn't like the idea of plugin users being able to access the MAS registers directly and thought there should be a layer in the core between the plugins and the MAS
07:56:21LinusNi'm not sure i agree
07:56:42BCi can see his point, but don't fancy the task - Bagder also agrees with you
07:57:13LinusNi agree that it may not be a wise idea to let the plugins "poke under the hood"
07:57:43BCnot really sure what the real life risks are
07:57:47LinusNbut i don't want to bloat the code further with "protective" layers
07:58:18BCfor a full blown idiot-proofing - bloaty is a sure fire result
07:58:47BCas it stands you can kill Rockbox by drawing a line
07:58:49LinusNstill, your MAS plugin will of course have the drawback that the settings won't be saved
07:59:01BCalready resolved
07:59:07LinusNat least not by rockbox
07:59:56BCI may go on to tweak RTC-RAM too, but not sure exactly what is required there
08:00:30BCon-load settings are in rtc
08:01:04LinusNsome of them, yes
08:01:09LinusNthe rest is on disk
08:01:26BCwell all will resolve when autoexec.rock is implemented
08:02:27BCcan a plugin run a plugin?
08:02:52BCand if so, can it return afterwards?
08:03:10BCthe second i sincerely doubt
08:04:32BCthe mdb is pretty impressive when you get it tweaked right :)
08:05:06LinusNno, a plugin can't run a plugin
08:05:35BCmaybe autoexec.bat would be an alternative solution
08:05:57LinusNsomething like that, yes
08:06:11BCrun audio setup; run in-car thingie
08:06:54BCjust found the real karaoke feature - lol
08:07:08BCmix mic with dsp
08:07:19LinusNah :-)
08:07:20BCas opposed to channel inversion
08:07:48LinusNas opposed?
08:07:55BC"instead of"
08:07:59LinusNthe mic is on the left channel only
08:08:02BC"as opposed to"
08:08:12LinusNso it should be possible to do them both
08:08:29BCmy archos mic is stereo
08:08:40BCyes, both :)))
08:09:11LinusNactually, enabling the inputs for mixing isn't a bad idea
08:09:17LinusNwe do it on the player
08:09:29BCwhy did it never make it to the recorder?
08:09:39LinusNnobody asked for it :-)
08:09:55BCask a stupid question... :)
08:11:40BCalthough I think karaoke controls should be from the wps really
08:11:51BCnot really suited hidden away in a menu
08:12:42LinusNi imagine writing WPS plugins
08:12:57LinusNmaking the wps call a plugin that does the job
08:13:17BCGiven the nature of this specific case, I would like to see ON+UP or something quick and easy
08:13:26LinusNit could be visualisation, ID3 album coversm karaoke, you name it
08:14:06LinusNon+up, or configuring the F2 menu
08:14:35BCI kinda see the end of the current F2 quick-menu idea very soon with pfavr's work
08:15:44LinusNhow is that? as far as i know, he's on the same track
08:16:15BCyou could not F2+UP any more, i think he's going for a "normal" menu system
08:16:39BCi proposed a configurable one-handed short-cut thing, but it was rejected
08:17:12LinusNthe NEWKEYS document proposes configurable ON+xxx combos
08:17:40BCI must go look at the wiki and see what's happened lately before I comment erroneously
08:18:03LinusNhe wants ON+UP/DOWN to be hard-coded though
08:18:41BCI think full-karaoke mode should be a headline rockbox feature
08:19:40LinusNit shouldn't add that many lines of code
08:19:45BCdon't know about over your way, but the US and VERY much England, Karaoke is THE thing
08:20:04BCI think it would be a raved-about feature
08:20:08LinusNoh, we're past that in sweden :-)
08:20:23LinusNsooooo 90's
08:20:23BCAnother good reason for me to leave the UK
08:20:47BCYou can find karaoke 7-nights a week if you wander around town for a while
08:21:10BCwanna see the new audio plugin, it's just reached a stable point again
08:21:27BCjust added digital clip warnings
08:21:52BCneed to include the stereo seperation parameters before I conclude
08:22:45BChad to take out the greyscale stuff - I ran out of plugin ram - lol
08:23:23BChas any thought been given to making the plugin libs, real "only-the-procs-you-use" libs?
08:25:30LinusNthere is a plugin lib
08:25:54BCafaict it always includes all procs
08:26:03LinusNthen there is a bug in the linker
08:26:35BChmm, i shall check more before I say something foolish
08:26:45LinusNwell, the lib is just a collection of .o files
08:27:09BCI only get gray.o
08:27:12dwihnoAnother day, another dollar
08:27:14LinusNso all functions in the .o file are included
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08:27:38BCmornin' dwihno
08:27:55dwihnoHej hej allibody!
08:27:58BCso we must place only one proc per c file?
08:28:02LinusNhejsan dwihno
08:28:16dwihnoHejsan svejsan på dejsan! :)
08:28:18LinusNBC: yes, if you want per-function granularity
08:28:34BCcool - I shall mention that to amiconn next time I see him
08:28:42LinusNnothing stops us from doing that
08:29:14BCI remember the good ole days when the linker did that for you - lol
08:29:28LinusNwe could at least divide it into smaller sets of functions
08:29:45LinusNthat must have been the Borland Turbo linker
08:29:59BCI know it was something amiconn wanted from chats and code comments
08:30:24BClol - Borland - how did we ever live without them :) ...also some mainframe linkers
08:31:40BCso ...fancy a preview of the plugin?
08:32:28BCI also have a special f/w which links it into the menu system and resets stuff on load which you can also have if you like
08:33:40LinusNis it on your web site?
08:34:08BCnot yet, I want to do stereo seperation in the clip calculations before I do the big release thing
08:37:38LinusNi'm at work atm, not much time to play i'm afraid
08:38:18BCthat's okay dude, believe me, you ARE gonna like it ;)
08:38:34BCI'll get you a copy next time I catch you at home maybe ;)
08:39:37BChm, I also need to sew it in to the volume display - hmm, maybe another couple of days - lol
08:40:43BCI use a non-linear scaling algorithm for the volume for greater accuracy at higher volumes
08:47:32LinusNif it's good, we should use it in the main source
08:49:56BCit gives 1db granularity for +12 ... 0 ... -18dB (which is 70...100%) and then a linear scale below that ...that has proven suffiecient for me, but there is one number to change to increase the accuray of lower dB output
08:50:43BCwhat is a classic listening volume for you?
08:51:00LinusNsomewhere between 70 and 80%
08:51:21LinusNor maybe it's about 70-85
08:51:34LinusNit depends
08:52:25BCso you would want fine control for anything over, say, 65%
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08:58:18LinusNsomething like that
09:01:44 Join Freek [0] (
09:01:50Freekhey kids, anyone here?
09:02:18LinusNi'm here
09:02:21BCcool - i'm a kid again
09:02:27LinusN(kids...tsss :-)
09:03:24Freekhey so i was wondering about disassembling the code for the jbmm .ajz file. i've just descrambled it, and wanted to know if it's even possible to decompile it into its parts
09:04:13BCsorry, i've gotta be the first to ask why
09:04:42BCand even more sorry not to know the answer to your question :(
09:04:59Freeki wish to edit the motherfucker (pardon me if you frown upon swearing) into something more rockbox-like
09:05:33*BC reads back and notices "mm"
09:05:56BCi know nothing of it, but if it is an SH1 I guess we have all the tools
09:06:09Freeki hate the jbmm interface, so i eagerly await someone who will make a rockbox for the jbmm. in the meantime, though, i want to try and screw with it myself
09:06:21Freeki don't think it is, actually...
09:06:48BCwell, that's step one, get a list of chips and any schematics you can make out
09:10:11Freekthats definitely a good idea...
09:10:24Freekhow long does sh2d usually take to go through a file and disassemble it?
09:10:47Freeksay, a build of rockbox?
09:11:13BC<shrugs> never used it, sorry - but I would guess less than 30mins for even a crap disassembler
09:11:46BCmine takes about 4mins to do a DVD ROM
09:12:03Freekoh hooray. less than thirty minutes, its 12:09, and i have to get up at six
09:12:07Freekoh well
09:12:15Freekcries himelf to sleep
09:12:24*Freek cries himself to sleep
09:12:42*BC says some appropriately soothing words involving pipeline delays
09:13:00*Freek curses his slow-ass 600mhz machine
09:13:22BCwhy not download a pc emulator and emulate a 3GHz machine?
09:14:03Freek... laffo
09:14:37LinusNFreek: you should really check out
09:14:44Freekdone and done
09:14:56Freekthey haven't made any builds for jbmm
09:15:00Freekjust av3x0
09:16:09LinusNi *think* the cpu is the same
09:17:26Freeki'm also not too much of a developer. more of a tinkerer. so even if presented with all the right stuff to build something, i'd still be confused
09:18:10Freekhmm. hey linus where does sh2d spit out decompiles files?
09:18:20Freekit's not showing up on my desktop
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13:23:18 Join Bagder [241] (
13:23:33LinusNyo Bagder
13:23:40Bagderyo yo yo
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14:40:36Bagderusers are annoying!
14:41:15Bagderespecially those who repeatedly send you the same mail, even after you've replied...
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14:42:30Bagderhi Peter
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15:11:38Bagderrailroadlane: use a proper IRC client instead
15:12:00railroadlanejust lurking, does this create a problem?
15:12:14Bagdernot really, I just notice you bouncing in and out
15:12:28railroadlanelearning curve sorry
15:12:34Bagderhehe, ok
15:12:36Bagderno worries
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16:11:41NHIwow gmini sound quality is great
16:11:52NHIrecording that is
16:12:06Bagderdoesn't that use a mas as well?
16:12:36NHIwhats mas
16:12:49NHIdunno jus got it yesterday
16:12:53Bagderthe mp3 chip that the ordinary players/recorders have
16:12:59NHIcant tell
16:13:05NHIthe software is total shit
16:13:10NHIbut the device is nice
16:13:25NHIcant even play folders incl subfolders
16:13:33NHIcant resume automatically
16:13:39NHIhave to set a bookmark
16:14:11NHIsound of recording is good tho
16:14:22NHII could provide sample if anyone is interested
16:15:42limbusI hold an ONDIO in my hands last weekend. The hardware is cheap but nice. but the original software is more similar to rockbox (icons and sliders in browser) than to the archos original software my AJBR had.
16:25:06NHIgmini soft is with icons too
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17:56:36limbusOne day I will find this peer guy, and then I will reset HIS connection !
18:01:59NHI"Whos General Failure, and why is he reading my disk?"
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18:15:59Decimal-12i was reading the features comparison and i didnt understand where it said the fm recorder supports video with sound. anybody?
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20:44:17Ice2658hey everyone
20:44:50Ice2658I have a question about archos mp3 player
20:45:11Ice2658is it possible to replace the hard drive and if so where do i buy a new one?
20:45:30 Quit Ice2658 (Client Quit)
20:52:58limbuspsss. too impatient
20:53:42limbusfor the case you read the logs: yes it is possible, quit easy, have alook at the mods page. you should get one from a local computer dealer store (notebook-drives)
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22:33:36 Part BC
22:40:36 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (
22:40:44amiconnHi Jörg
22:40:50[IDC]Dragonhi Jens
22:41:04[IDC]DragonI missed groovingandi
22:43:44amiconnI found some very clever routine for bitswapping which would permit another speedup of grayscale of >60 % (together with some other tweaks)
22:44:28[IDC]Dragonbitswap in grayscale?
22:44:29amiconnUnfortunately, to get this working with full speed, I would have to reduce the possibilities.
22:45:08[IDC]Dragonyou're a typing riddle tonight
22:45:12amiconnCurrently, any bit depth from 1-32 is possible, corresponding to 2-33 shades
22:45:46[IDC]DragonI think power of 2 is still OK
22:45:49amiconnFor these optimizations I would have to reduce this to 8/16/32 bits
22:46:07amiconn*And* the harder part:
22:47:07amiconnFor each bit depth I would have to compile a different version of the lib.
22:47:27amiconnI don't yet know how to do this, without replicating the full source
22:48:03amiconnThere would have to be something line "gray8.h", "gray16.h" and "gray32.h"
22:48:36amiconnThe higher level functions would be the same, but they would have to call different low level functions.
22:50:54amiconnThe problem is that I _cannot_ simply replicate the high level functions (with the same name), because in that case these functions would reside more than once within libplugin.a
22:51:13amiconnHow should the linker decide which one to use?
22:51:14[IDC]Dragongf interrupt, sorry
22:51:40amiconnAH :9
23:01:04[IDC]Dragonback again
23:02:06[IDC]Dragonif the high level functions are the same, you could wrap the internals
23:02:26[IDC]Dragonor, like you say, make 3 flavours of the lib
23:03:28amiconnYes, but then I would have to name all function differently in all 3 versions of the lib -> whole source has to be replicated, which wasn't the goal of making a lib in the first place
23:04:04[IDC]Dragonif you make 3 distinct libs?
23:04:54amiconnYes, because all 3 end up in libplugin.a, from which the linker "draws" the object as soon as one symbol of it is used.
23:05:29[IDC]DragonI haven't looked at the plugin lib system yet
23:05:30amiconnIf there are symbols with the same name in different object, how should the linker "know" which one to use?
23:05:49[IDC]Dragonthere is only 1 lib for all shared code we'll ever come up with?
23:06:02amiconnYup. (at least atm)
23:07:26amiconnI would really like to split the grayscale code into several object (so functions not used in a plugin are not included in the binary), but this would require to split it into several (read: many) source files
23:08:18amiconnThis in turn would require sub-dirs within apps/plugin/lib, for which the build process is not prepared...
23:09:03[IDC]DragonI heared the linker is too dumb to remove dead functions from a lib
23:09:28[IDC]Dragonso, if all shared code is in a lib, it's all or nothing?
23:10:38amiconnThe linker always includes the whole *object* (be it from file (.o) or from a lib) as soon as one symbol of that object is referenced
23:11:17[IDC]Dragonyes, but if all share code is one big blow, it can grow arbitrary big
23:11:27[IDC]Dragoneasily >32k
23:11:32amiconnA library file can contain many objects. It is as simple as having a directory of .o files
23:12:27[IDC]Dragonand you have a namespace problem then
23:12:41amiconnSo if I would split the grayscale source into many, each function could be its own object
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23:14:01amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Yes, that's why I suggested a "convention" for naming functions and variables in frameworks: all of them should be prepended with the framework name
23:14:19[IDC]Dragonmakes sense, yes
23:14:32amiconnOf course this is not necessary for static functions.
23:14:52[IDC]Dragonjakesir: did you get my mail?
23:15:01jakesiryes i did
23:15:08jakesirand i send a reply
23:15:16[IDC]Dragonamiconn: please excuse
23:15:17jakesirthank you
23:15:31jakesircheck your e-mail plz
23:15:38[IDC]Dragonand I didn't get one...
23:15:57amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Another convention I suggested is that every framework should have a <framework>_init(struct plugin_api*) function
23:17:10jakesiri'll wait 'til you finish chatting
23:18:31[IDC]Dragonjakesir: no email yet, please proceed
23:19:04[IDC]DragonI should be in bed already, we'd better hurry
23:19:04jakesirwell, i tried that uart_boot w/o success
23:19:27jakesirwhen are you here noramlly?
23:19:47[IDC]Dragonit's kind of rare these days
23:19:58jakesirok, here is the thing
23:20:06jakesiri did everything as told
23:20:14jakesirand i get nothing
23:20:36jakesirit stops at 'Downloading monitor..."
23:20:50jakesirand i have to ctl-break to stop
23:21:09jakesirso the question is...
23:21:12[IDC]Dragondo you use F3+On to start with the monitor?
23:21:16jakesirdo I put the AJB in F3+on to access?
23:21:51[IDC]Dragonand use the command line switch to prevent downloading the monitor
23:21:59jakesirok, because if it is off position and when applying power to the rs232, i hear HD spinning
23:22:01[IDC]Dragon(it's already there)
23:22:45[IDC]Dragonyes, this may happen, you raise the logic level
23:22:50 Join NibbIer [0] (
23:23:15[IDC]Dragoncausing some side current to drive the transistor
23:23:33[IDC]Dragonwhat's your command line?
23:23:57jakesiruart_boot -r -p com1 -t
23:24:03jakesirjust to see if it works
23:24:17*[IDC]Dragon checks...
23:24:29jakesirbut nothing happens
23:25:09[IDC]Dragondon't use -t
23:25:26[IDC]Dragonyou have been warned, this is my internal test option
23:26:32[IDC]Dragoncurrently, it does some FM power fiddling
23:26:51jakesircan u walk me through?
23:26:53[IDC]Dragonanyway, use -n
23:26:56jakesiri have everything connected
23:27:01[IDC]Dragonfor no download
23:27:41[IDC]Dragontry uart_boot -r -p com1 -n -b
23:28:07[IDC]Dragondo that first, then the command
23:28:39[IDC]Dragonit should blink with the red LED if everything works
23:28:58[IDC]Dragon(that's what -b is for)
23:30:01jakesirhmmm nothing
23:30:21jakesirso is that mean I have bad connection some where?
23:30:37[IDC]Dragonmaybe your converter doesn't work
23:30:45[IDC]Dragonwhat kind is it?
23:31:18jakesirthe one in the webpage
23:31:21jakesirwith max3232
23:31:32jakesirbut w/ external power
23:31:58[IDC]Dragonyou can test it with hyperterm (or a better terminal) and a loopback
23:32:36[IDC]Dragondisconnect it from the Archos, connect RX to TX, creating a local loop
23:32:36jakesirhow do i loop back?
23:32:54[IDC]Dragonthen you can check if you receive your own chars
23:33:33[IDC]Dragonwhen you type something in e.g. hyperterm, it should appear on the screen
23:33:53[IDC]Dragonfor as long as you've connected the loop
23:34:22jakesirok, i'll try that
23:34:48[IDC]Dragonmy recomended terminal is teraterm, google could lead you to the download
23:34:57[IDC]Dragonbut hyperterm will do
23:35:08jakesirok, if it blinks, than what's next step??
23:35:17[IDC]Dragonexcuse me for a minute
23:35:30[IDC]Dragonreading the flash content
23:35:49[IDC]Dragonwith -d yourdumpfile.bin
23:36:01[IDC]Dragonto check what went wrong
23:36:43jakesirand -f to flash new ??
23:37:15jakesirand what flash file do i use?
23:42:56[IDC]Dragonjakesir: slowly, don't flash yet, let'sget it working first
23:43:10[IDC]Dragonand I'm interested in your dump
23:43:21jakesiri'll get this thing working
23:43:28jakesirand get the dump file
23:43:48[IDC]Dragonultimately, it would be the firmware_yourmodel.bin file
23:44:14[IDC]Dragonbut you need to patch in the 2 hardware mask bytes
23:44:38jakesirthat i don't know how
23:44:47[IDC]Dragonactually, the best file to flash is your original firmware backup
23:45:03[IDC]Dragondo you still have it?
23:45:39jakesirso, no need to patch 2 hardware mask?
23:45:42[IDC]Dragonthat on, you don't need to pach
23:47:05[IDC]Dragonhow is your loopback test going along?
23:48:21[IDC]Dragonbaudrate doesn't matter, but I recommend 115200 like it will be used later
23:49:32 Join nessxp [0] (
23:49:57 Quit edx ()
23:50:48jakesirnot going yet
23:50:56nessxpcan someone help me with play list creating on arcos fm recorder
23:51:20[IDC]Dragonjakesir: I'm afraid I have to leave you with that task
23:51:37jakesiri'll catch you some other time
23:51:45[IDC]Dragontry tomorrow
23:51:53[IDC]Dragonin 22 hours
23:51:58[IDC]Dragon(or so)
23:52:18[IDC]Dragonfeel free to email
23:52:31 Quit nessxp (Client Quit)
23:53:06[IDC]Dragonyou may use a LED and ~100-200 Ohm resistor to check for pulses, on slow baudrate
23:53:22[IDC]Dragonprobably your adapter is not OK
23:53:35jakesiri have two
23:53:45jakesirone with max3232
23:53:50jakesirand one with transistor
23:53:55jakesiri'll try both
23:54:05 Join Ka_ [0] (
23:54:14[IDC]Dragona scope would be best suited to find out, but I don't assume such
23:54:49[IDC]Dragonyou can try both on different ports, make them talk to each other
23:54:57[IDC]Dragonwith 2 terminals
23:55:19***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:55:44[IDC]Dragonso you can check if sending or receiving is broken
23:56:00jakesirnow I have some idea...
23:57:38[IDC]Dragonquick, please...

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