| 00:02:00 | | Quit AciD (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 00:23:07 | | Join RavenWrks [0] (RavenWorks@modemcable240.220-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 00:23:07 | | Quit RavenWorks (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 00:27:05 | RavenWrks | Can anyone help me out.. I just bought an Archos, and it's being really weird... I don't think it's RockBox because I was having problems before it was even installed... |
| 00:27:21 | BlueChippp | ... |
| 00:28:23 | RavenWrks | I'm not even sure what I'm asking for, this is all totally flukey, sometimes it can't access the hard drive, sometimes it won't mount in Windows when connected, even when it worked it stopped playing after a second of music... |
| 00:28:37 | RavenWrks | Argh |
| 00:28:58 | BlueChippp | 1. remove rockbox |
| 00:29:05 | BlueChippp | 2. reboot |
| 00:29:08 | RavenWrks | I can't even access the HD |
| 00:29:34 | BlueChippp | if it will not power at all, then 1. check the batteries |
| 00:30:07 | RavenWrks | IT boots up, and then says REad access error. |
| 00:30:22 | BlueChippp | ahh, now an error message - handy |
| 00:30:42 | BlueChippp | does rockbox start? |
| 00:30:44 | RavenWrks | It booted once |
| 00:30:49 | RavenWrks | Now it's not. |
| 00:31:44 | RavenWrks | I get the generic loading screen, version 1.40a (I didn't flash it) and then "Read Access Error, CAnnot... okay,wait, now I'm getting ROckbox's 'REsume?' screen. |
| 00:32:16 | RavenWrks | This is why I'm so confused, it's not even the same problem every time |
| 00:32:23 | BlueChippp | dodgy connection |
| 00:32:26 | BlueChippp | dropped itrecently? |
| 00:32:34 | RavenWrks | Ijust got it. |
| 00:32:37 | BlueChippp | which unit is it? |
| 00:32:38 | RavenWrks | .. off eBay. |
| 00:32:41 | RavenWrks | REcorder v2 |
| 00:32:52 | BlueChippp | dodgy battery connection in transit |
| 00:32:57 | BlueChippp | reseat battery |
| 00:33:24 | RavenWrks | I was gonna say, the really weird thing was it told me it was charged after 15 minutes, I assumed that the last owner charged it but now I'm getting all these problems... |
| 00:33:32 | BlueChippp | there are several FAQ with piccies from the rockbox homepage :) |
| 00:33:35 | RavenWrks | is resetting the battery in the Archos manual or ROckbox manual? |
| 00:33:37 | RavenWrks | ok ^^ |
| 00:33:49 | BlueChippp | RE-SEAT |
| 00:33:57 | RavenWrks | Oh! |
| 00:34:00 | BlueChippp | lol |
| 00:34:24 | BlueChippp | (i actually think that's quite funny) |
| 00:34:27 | BlueChippp | lol |
| 00:34:49 | BlueChippp | they're a tight fit, and not held securely - if that makes sense |
| 00:34:51 | RavenWrks | 'How to repair your broken battery connectors'? |
| 00:35:02 | BlueChippp | think that is for the V1 |
| 00:35:17 | BlueChippp | all i can say is that I know I've seen photos |
| 00:35:24 | BlueChippp | ...HEY SCOTT |
| 00:37:41 | BlueChippp | hmmm, well RavenWrks, if you see scott666 around, ask him ....he was taking his apart today for another reason and has a digicam |
| 00:39:18 | | Quit lImbus (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 00:39:20 | RavenWrks | Alright. |
| 00:39:23 | RavenWrks | THanks.. |
| 00:39:44 | BlueChippp | you'rE welcomE |
| 00:46:43 | | Join theBishop_sleeps [0] (~sleep21@adslblock234x128.chesco.com) |
| 00:47:13 | | Nick theBishop_sleeps is now known as thebishop (~sleep21@adslblock234x128.chesco.com) |
| 00:47:18 | thebishop | heyhey |
| 00:47:34 | thebishop | is there a firmware flash program in the Rockbox project? |
| 00:47:42 | BlueChippp | yes |
| 00:47:45 | thebishop | i'm looking at the source right now |
| 00:47:51 | thebishop | what file is it? |
| 00:48:00 | BlueChippp | errrrrrr |
| 00:48:32 | BlueChippp | while I'm searching... why? |
| 00:49:01 | thebishop | i'm trying to learn how USB programming works, and eventually i want to make a similar project for the Creative Labs Nomad |
| 00:49:06 | thebishop | is it flash.cpp |
| 00:49:33 | BlueChippp | it's firmware_flash in the plugins - it will help none for USB :( |
| 00:49:36 | thebishop | " /flash/uart_boot/flash.cpp" |
| 00:50:06 | BlueChippp | missed that one/// |
| 00:50:07 | BlueChippp | ... |
| 00:50:10 | thebishop | so you put the updated file on the HD and the program flashes itself? |
| 00:50:27 | BlueChippp | no you run the flash app and point it at a file and a chip |
| 00:52:07 | BlueChippp | aka. click on a firmware image |
| 00:52:39 | BlueChippp | the first flash is different as it set up the chip for a new flash technique |
| 00:52:59 | thebishop | but the program is run from a PC? |
| 00:53:04 | BlueChippp | no |
| 00:53:32 | BlueChippp | you can modify the hardware and do it over a serial port from the pc |
| 00:53:50 | thebishop | ah i see |
| 00:53:52 | BlueChippp | rewire a couple of pins on the cpu iirc |
| 00:54:19 | thebishop | well as far as i can see there is no way to hack up a serial port on the Nomad Xtra |
| 00:54:28 | RavenWrks | ... would I be insane to just open up my Archos and try and make the battery fit better, without having found a guide first? |
| 00:55:06 | BlueChippp | not insane at all - just take a little care the first time |
| 00:55:23 | BlueChippp | I believe it can be done without a soldering iron |
| 00:57:51 | BlueChippp | I bought the V1 for that very reason |
| 00:58:07 | thebishop | hey, what is the benefit of the serial port interface? |
| 00:58:17 | BlueChippp | serial debugging |
| 00:58:39 | thebishop | can you run code from that? |
| 01:00 |
| 01:01:32 | BlueChippp | I dont really know, soory |
| 01:01:42 | BlueChippp | if you can flash the chip, it seems likely |
| 01:01:54 | BlueChippp | but I'm running out of "know" and into "guess" |
| 01:03:19 | BlueChippp | brb |
| 01:03:23 | | Quit BlueChippp ("For The Latest Rockbox DevKit AND Advanced Plugins Visit http://homepage.ntlworld.com/cyborgsystems") |
| 01:14:50 | | Join BlueChippp [0] (~bluechip@cpc3-colc1-3-0-cust61.colc.cable.ntl.com) |
| 01:27:05 | scott666_ | RavenWrks: still having hardware problems? i see bluechip asked for me to help earlier |
| 01:27:11 | | Nick scott666_ is now known as scott666 (~scott666@c-24-245-59-203.mn.client2.attbi.com) |
| 01:27:26 | BlueChippp | you had some photos |
| 01:27:53 | scott666 | no i didnt |
| 01:27:58 | scott666 | i had links to the rockbox site |
| 01:27:59 | scott666 | heh |
| 01:30:04 | RavenWrks | Ack, hi! |
| 01:30:30 | RavenWrks | Umm, wow, I just put a little screwdriver between the two rectangular metal things which I assume are battery cells, and abunch of lights turned on... |
| 01:31:12 | BlueChippp | :) |
| 01:31:28 | RavenWrks | I tried turning it on after that, and got the HD access error message. |
| 01:31:59 | BlueChippp | maybe you need to leave the screwdriver in the gap to keep the circuit complete? |
| 01:32:06 | scott666 | BETWEEN the 2 rectangular metal things? |
| 01:32:21 | RavenWrks | Scott −− yes. Blue −− that would be inconvenient. X3 |
| 01:32:26 | BlueChippp | "i shorted out two metal things and it worked" |
| 01:32:41 | scott666 | youre going through the top of the unit, right? |
| 01:32:45 | RavenWrks | Yep. |
| 01:32:50 | BlueChippp | I dont really understand that at all, but if it fixes the problem... |
| 01:32:57 | | Quit thebishop (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 01:32:58 | scott666 | those 2 metal things are the 2 cells of the battery |
| 01:33:02 | RavenWrks | But I also took off the bottom, and the four blue screws −− this is a V2 −− and it's not really coming apart. |
| 01:33:10 | RavenWrks | Blue −− it turns on just fine, that's not the problem. |
| 01:33:13 | scott666 | the bottom is pretty useless |
| 01:33:18 | scott666 | its serial on the MM units |
| 01:33:23 | RavenWrks | does it have to come off to be disassembled, though? |
| 01:33:35 | scott666 | i think so |
| 01:33:45 | scott666 | ive never tried not taking it off |
| 01:33:46 | BlueChippp | RavenWrks you have stated so many problems i don't really know what you're trying to do |
| 01:33:49 | scott666 | i will next time |
| 01:34:02 | BlueChippp | if you're randomly shorting the unit out, you will eventually kill it |
| 01:34:37 | RavenWrks | Well I didn't do it again after the first time. |
| 01:34:45 | scott666 | RavenWrks: do the metal things on the bottom of the top (the cover) touch both metal things? |
| 01:35:25 | BlueChippp | lol -do the metal things touch the metal things - lol |
| 01:35:51 | RavenWrks | well, it starts up without the cover in... |
| 01:36:05 | scott666 | does it work though? |
| 01:36:25 | RavenWrks | I got the same HD read error as before. |
| 01:36:34 | scott666 | when the cover is off you should have to press down on the battery to get it to turn on |
| 01:36:35 | RavenWrks | Trying again. |
| 01:36:41 | RavenWrks | Nope, starting fine |
| 01:36:54 | scott666 | the cover pushes it down to the contacts |
| 01:36:57 | RavenWrks | well as "fine" as it ever has |
| 01:37:06 | RavenWrks | now it's saying 'please format drive' |
| 01:37:13 | scott666 | is your drive formatted? |
| 01:37:30 | RavenWrks | It was. |
| 01:37:45 | scott666 | same thing when you reboot? |
| 01:37:46 | RavenWrks | It wouldn't surprise me if it got messed up during all of these screwy startups. |
| 01:38:11 | BlueChippp | connect the drive to a pc |
| 01:38:16 | RavenWrks | OK |
| 01:38:27 | scott666 | youll need a soldering iron for that |
| 01:38:37 | RavenWrks | for what? |
| 01:38:46 | scott666 | connecting the drive to a pC |
| 01:38:48 | scott666 | well |
| 01:38:57 | scott666 | for being able to connect it to a PC anyway |
| 01:39:14 | scott666 | actually CONNECTING it doesnt need soldering |
| 01:39:19 | | Quit Strath (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
| 01:39:19 | NSplit | anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net |
| 01:39:22 | scott666 | unless you want to do it the hard way |
| 01:39:26 | RavenWrks | Connected, it's booting |
| 01:39:34 | RavenWrks | USB logo on Archos, 'deedoo' noise from Windows |
| 01:39:47 | RavenWrks | but it's not appearing in My Computer |
| 01:39:48 | scott666 | oh |
| 01:39:56 | BlueChippp | XP |
| 01:39:56 | scott666 | thought he meant the DRIVE |
| 01:40:18 | RavenWrks | 'Safely Remove' refers to it as a 'USB mass storage device', which it didn't back when it was working (better). |
| 01:41:03 | scott666 | it should be a USB mass storage drive |
| 01:42:09 | scott666 | *device |
| 01:42:16 | scott666 | just checked with mine |
| 01:42:37 | RavenWrks | Yeah, sorry, I was thinking of the 'add hardware' control panel, it had a much longer name there. |
| 01:42:46 | RavenWrks | still not showing up in My Computer though. |
| 01:42:57 | RavenWrks | I'm gonna unplug and replug it. |
| 01:43:38 | BlueChippp | is it running archos or rockbox f/w? |
| 01:44:15 | RavenWrks | Rockbox, but I was having trouble even before I managed to copy it on. |
| 01:45:02 | RavenWrks | Okay, now Rockbox is listing my songs again. |
| 01:45:14 | RavenWrks | This definately seems like a case of something being loose. :P |
| 01:45:45 | | Quit mecraw ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)") |
| 01:46:18 | BlueChippp | now rockbox is running - connect windows and see the usb enabled screen on the unit |
| 01:46:28 | RavenWrks | It just gave me an error message I didn't get a chance to read, and everything below the status bar disappeared.. |
| 01:46:31 | RavenWrks | now it's listing my songs again |
| 01:46:51 | RavenWrks | Okay, now it's showing a nifty picture of a USB cable, with the USB logo. |
| 01:47:46 | RavenWrks | Windows made the noise, but it's still not appearing. |
| 01:47:54 | NHeal | anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net |
| 01:47:54 | NJoin | Strath [0] (~mike@dgvlwinas01pool0-a200.wi.tds.net) |
| 01:47:57 | | Join StrathAFK [0] (~mike@dgvlwinas01pool0-a200.wi.tds.net) |
| 01:47:57 | BlueChippp | this is fer sure a dodgy connection |
| 01:48:17 | BlueChippp | I believe Rockbox has some serious USB atm - try renaming the rockbox file and rebooting |
| 01:48:22 | | Quit Strath (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 01:48:36 | BlueChippp | *USB problems |
| 01:48:45 | RavenWrks | How can I remove it without being able to access it from Windows? |
| 01:48:54 | BlueChippp | ON+PLAY, rename file |
| 01:49:05 | BlueChippp | just be warned, you wil not be able to rename it back |
| 01:49:15 | RavenWrks | I'll just unzip it again. |
| 01:49:22 | BlueChippp | not if you cant connect |
| 01:49:40 | BlueChippp | best method is to have the original firmware on the drive |
| 01:49:55 | BlueChippp | but that mey be "future reference" info |
| 01:50:18 | RavenWrks | I'll settle for it working with ANY firmware. |
| 01:55:32 | RavenWrks | Maybe I'd be able to just push the battery into place if I could get this thing open. |
| 01:55:39 | RavenWrks | I took off the top and the bottom, and the four blue side screws... |
| 01:55:44 | RavenWrks | does anything else have to be unscrewed? |
| 01:55:53 | RavenWrks | Sorry to be this much trouble. |
| 01:57:50 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 01:59:22 | RavenWrks | The webpage the Rockbox site linked to said something about prying the batteries out... |
| 01:59:44 | BlueChippp | mechanically i can't really help as I own a V1 |
| 02:00 |
| 02:04:24 | scott666 | what are you planning on doing? |
| 02:04:58 | RavenWrks | making sure the battery's inserted snugly. |
| 02:05:22 | scott666 | do you have a soldering iron? |
| 02:05:43 | RavenWrks | Nope. |
| 02:05:44 | scott666 | or more importantly, do you know how to use one? |
| 02:05:49 | scott666 | ok |
| 02:05:57 | scott666 | well then you wont be able to get very deep |
| 02:06:16 | BlueChippp | drive has started |
| 02:06:23 | scott666 | to take off the faceplate you need to remove the top, the bottom, and the battery |
| 02:06:47 | scott666 | then you need to turn the unit onto its face and look where the battery was and find the black screw and remove that |
| 02:07:07 | RavenWrks | I see the black screw but I'm not sure how to get the battery out. |
| 02:07:12 | scott666 | then you have to pry off (carefully) both sides of the face |
| 02:07:23 | scott666 | you should just have to shake it |
| 02:08:39 | RavenWrks | How hard? |
| 02:08:47 | scott666 | uhh |
| 02:08:50 | scott666 | not very |
| 02:08:59 | RavenWrks | I'm shaking pretty hard, it's not budging |
| 02:09:16 | scott666 | i should probably put in a disclaimer right about now |
| 02:09:36 | RavenWrks | Okay, not REALLY hard, but you know what I mean. :P |
| 02:09:43 | scott666 | not budging at all? |
| 02:10:01 | scott666 | shake as hard as youre willing to try |
| 02:10:02 | RavenWrks | Not as far as I can tell. |
| 02:10:35 | scott666 | if it moves enough to grab you can pull it out |
| 02:11:17 | RavenWrks | Okay, I gotta find something other than this screwdriver, I was just pushing the SIDE and it started up. |
| 02:11:25 | RavenWrks | but only for a second, just the backlighting went on and then off. |
| 02:11:37 | RavenWrks | Wait, pushing it with my FINGER does it... |
| 02:11:50 | scott666 | pushing it down? |
| 02:11:57 | RavenWrks | PUshing it sideways. |
| 02:11:58 | BlueChippp | i can advice an old trick- it's a bodge though |
| 02:12:02 | BlueChippp | advise |
| 02:12:17 | RavenWrks | Bodge..? |
| 02:12:24 | BlueChippp | jam a bit of cardboard in it |
| 02:12:37 | RavenWrks | Which side? |
| 02:12:42 | BlueChippp | lol |
| 02:12:50 | BlueChippp | the side that makes it move the way you want it to move |
| 02:13:02 | RavenWrks | But getting it to turn on isn't the problem.... |
| 02:13:10 | RavenWrks | isn't stuff lighting up when I haven't pushed the On button a BAD thing? |
| 02:13:12 | BlueChippp | it was once |
| 02:13:25 | RavenWrks | Getting it to boot properly is the problem. |
| 02:13:36 | RavenWrks | It's always turned on; it's what happens after the startup screen that's the problem. |
| 02:14:05 | BlueChippp | you need to make the battery contacts good |
| 02:14:28 | scott666 | yeah, thats my guess |
| 02:14:42 | scott666 | he needs to unsolder the 7 points though |
| 02:14:50 | scott666 | the contacts are on the other side |
| 02:14:50 | BlueChippp | hold it in place and see if it works - if it does, then do whatever is required to keep the battery in that position |
| 02:15:01 | RavenWrks | Small question... |
| 02:15:15 | BlueChippp | get some ethanol or similar and pour it in and swill it about |
| 02:16:11 | RavenWrks | should I be able to see a black band in the top of the screen window? |
| 02:16:16 | RavenWrks | Above the LCD |
| 02:16:23 | RavenWrks | it seems like the screen is too far down |
| 02:17:01 | RavenWrks | so anyway, however I hold the batteries to make the lights go on, keep them like that? |
| 02:17:04 | RavenWrks | How will I turn it off? |
| 02:17:35 | scott666 | press off |
| 02:17:40 | BlueChippp | lol |
| 02:17:42 | scott666 | *hold |
| 02:18:01 | RavenWrks | Oh, wow, this is weird, it just booted, but not into RockBox... |
| 02:18:40 | scott666 | i dont suppose you have a warranty |
| 02:19:05 | RavenWrks | eBay. |
| 02:19:22 | scott666 | figures |
| 02:19:40 | scott666 | http://www.angelfire.com/trek/archos/diagnosis.htm |
| 02:19:46 | BlueChippp | battery jogged out in transit is my guess |
| 02:19:50 | scott666 | scroll down to the battery contacts part |
| 02:21:11 | RavenWrks | I can't even get it apart... |
| 02:21:52 | RavenWrks | I can't get it to start up with a push anymore, either. |
| 02:22:29 | BlueChippp | you need to focus on one task at a time me thinks |
| 02:23:03 | RavenWrks | I just squeezed the sides and it did it.. and then it did it on its own... |
| 02:23:15 | RavenWrks | and in fact it doesn't start up, just both lights light up, then the red one turns off, then the green. |
| 02:23:17 | scott666 | that is definitely a battery contact problem |
| 02:23:30 | scott666 | youll have to take it apart if you want it to work again |
| 02:23:53 | scott666 | squeezing the sides always means battery contacts |
| 02:24:10 | RavenWrks | the sides of the top.... but still. |
| 02:26:03 | RavenWrks | what if I took out the black screw first? |
| 02:27:19 | scott666 | what about the black screw? |
| 02:27:33 | RavenWrks | would it help me get the batteries out? |
| 02:28:03 | scott666 | well, eventually |
| 02:28:17 | scott666 | but the battery contacts are on the opposite side of the PCB |
| 02:28:40 | scott666 | you need to de-solder the 7 points and pull the board off and turn it over |
| 02:30:24 | scott666 | its a fairly simple task if youve had any experience at all with a soldering iron |
| 02:30:38 | RavenWrks | I've seen someone do it. |
| 02:31:00 | RavenWrks | The HD is making a ticking sound when it seeks.... |
| 02:31:07 | BlueChippp | lack of power |
| 02:31:46 | RavenWrks | Makes sense. |
| 02:31:57 | RavenWrks | Same reason it won't play for more than a second when it actually starts? |
| 02:32:29 | | Quit scott666 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 02:32:38 | | Join scott666 [0] (~scott666@c-24-245-59-203.mn.client2.attbi.com) |
| 02:33:14 | scott666 | damn exploding trillian |
| 02:38:08 | | Join midk [0] (Zakk@c-67-160-88-198.client.comcast.net) |
| 02:55:04 | StrathAFK | bbiab |
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| 03:00 |
| 03:00:23 | RavenWrks | It occurs to me.... maybe what I'm doing to make the lights light up is not CONNECTING the battery, but pulling it *out* of place... then once I stop, it goes back into place and the lights go on.... |
| 03:03:22 | | Join midknight2k3 [0] (Zakk@c-67-160-88-198.client.comcast.net) |
| 03:03:26 | | Quit midk (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 03:05:51 | | Nick midknight2k3 is now known as midk (Zakk@c-67-160-88-198.client.comcast.net) |
| 03:07:04 | RavenWrks | must not resort to using teeth on this stupid battery... |
| 03:37:50 | | Quit BlueChippp (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 03:37:50 | | Quit RavenWrks (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 03:38:25 | | Join BlueChippp [0] (~bluechip@cpc3-colc1-3-0-cust61.colc.cable.ntl.com) |
| 03:57:54 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 04:00 |
| 04:37:25 | | Join guest1 [0] (jirc@d47-69-243-28.col.wideopenwest.com) |
| 04:38:44 | | Quit guest1 (Client Quit) |
| 04:39:02 | | Join guest_2004 [0] (jirc@d47-69-243-28.col.wideopenwest.com) |
| 04:39:16 | | Join NibbIer [0] (nibbler@port-212-202-78-119.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 04:40:13 | guest_2004 | my ac adapter will not charge my JBR 20 V2, what can I do? |
| 04:41:15 | BlueChippp | what have you done since the last time it worked? |
| 04:42:41 | guest_2004 | I have been using the USB, but you know it takes forever |
| 04:43:09 | BlueChippp | sorry, what takes forever? |
| 04:43:31 | guest_2004 | charging the battery |
| 04:44:41 | scott666 | do you have a warranty? |
| 04:45:13 | scott666 | if not it sounds like you will have to replace the charging circuit |
| 04:45:20 | guest_2004 | yes, but I would have to remove the Rockbox firmware first |
| 04:45:30 | scott666 | is that a problem? |
| 04:45:44 | guest_2004 | replace the charging circuit, is it something I could do? |
| 04:45:48 | scott666 | depends |
| 04:45:53 | scott666 | do you have experience with soldering? |
| 04:46:25 | guest_2004 | some, on my older dvd player, but nothing with circuit boards |
| 04:47:09 | guest_2004 | I have had no response from Archos help emails, so I will have to call them |
| 04:47:17 | BlueChippp | newmp3technology are selling a diy charger reapir kit |
| 04:47:37 | BlueChippp | dont waste your time with archos (imho) |
| 04:47:53 | guest_2004 | I can check it out. thanks ! |
| 04:48:07 | scott666 | they dont sell a diy headphone repair kit do they? |
| 04:48:22 | BlueChippp | yeah, it's called "a decent soldering iron" |
| 04:48:23 | BlueChippp | lol |
| 04:49:46 | scott666 | that would help |
| 04:50:08 | guest_2004 | looks like the repair kits are not available until Aug to Oct timeframe |
| 04:50:25 | BlueChippp | boo |
| 04:50:29 | BlueChippp | email 'em |
| 05:00 |
| 05:17:55 | | Quit guest_2004 ("Leaving") |
| 05:17:55 | | Quit NibbIer (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 05:18:23 | | Join Guest_2004 [0] (jirc@d47-69-243-28.col.wideopenwest.com) |
| 05:22:30 | Guest_2004 | So is there anyone else who repairs JBR 20 V2 charge circuits? |
| 05:24:06 | BlueChippp | not as a speciality in my knowledge |
| 05:24:25 | midk | newmp3technology.com? |
| 05:24:35 | BlueChippp | no more |
| 05:24:39 | BlueChippp | :( boo |
| 05:24:52 | midk | ? |
| 05:25:01 | BlueChippp | newmp3 - no more achos repairs |
| 05:25:35 | BlueChippp | I just did the coolest fix to rockbox :) |
| 05:25:46 | dwihno | hooray for fixes |
| 05:25:50 | midk | aww |
| 05:25:53 | midk | ooh what bc |
| 05:26:34 | BlueChippp | watch sourceforge in 5 mins |
| 05:29:57 | BlueChippp | done |
| 05:31:22 | midk | ooh |
| 05:31:33 | midk | is audio 3587 still a plugin? |
| 05:32:27 | BlueChippp | yes |
| 05:32:31 | BlueChippp | no room in the main f/w |
| 05:33:47 | midk | hmm |
| 05:33:50 | midk | what else is new with it |
| 05:34:27 | dwihno | audio 3587? |
| 05:34:30 | BlueChippp | I have a release email ready to go the newsgroup once it is done - it has about three pages of new features |
| 05:35:18 | midk | WOW |
| 05:35:24 | midk | i want to try it. |
| 05:37:48 | BlueChippp | it needs new f/w - what patches should I include? |
| 05:38:17 | midk | mine mine mine |
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| 05:57:57 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 05:58:44 | BlueChippp | i fancy , volume-triggered recordings; rva tag support and dir sort order :) any others you can think f? |
| 06:00 |
| 06:01:32 | BlueChippp | are you interested in beta'ing what I have so far? |
| 06:01:54 | midk | i can tomorrow |
| 06:01:59 | midk | no archos tonight |
| 06:02:02 | BlueChippp | ok |
| 06:02:07 | midk | *decides not to use the word "promise" |
| 06:02:10 | midk | :D |
| 06:04:05 | | Quit midk ("yo yo yo cya later YO YO YO wasa wasa!") |
| 06:06:16 | | Part BlueChippp |
| 06:28:47 | | Part scott666 |
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| 07:00 |
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| 08:00 |
| 08:23:29 | | Join Bagder [241] (~dast@labb.contactor.se) |
| 08:24:19 | LinusN | another fork....stay a while...stay FOREVER!!!! :-) |
| 08:24:42 | Bagder | ok, I stay! |
| 08:24:45 | Bagder | :-) |
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| 08:57:02 | | Nick BlueChippp is now known as BlueChip (~bluechip@cpc3-colc1-3-0-cust61.colc.cable.ntl.com) |
| 09:00 |
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| 09:42:23 | | Join Zagor [242] (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) |
| 09:42:45 | Zagor | hi guys |
| 09:42:52 | dwihno | Dr. Zagor! :O *gasp* |
| 09:45:44 | Bagder | Zagor: to round up, BlueChip considers himself "forced" to release his own builds due to us lacking the API support |
| 09:46:06 | Bagder | I say we don't patch the API since we're not allowed to include his plugins anyway |
| 09:46:25 | Zagor | BlueChip: are you ok with discussing this here and now? |
| 09:53:47 | Zagor | isn't he here? |
| 09:53:56 | Bagder | he was here 5 mins ago |
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| 10:00 |
| 10:06:04 | | Quit hardeep ("BitchX Lite I said!") |
| 10:06:51 | | Quit BlueChip (Remote closed the connection) |
| 10:07:34 | | Join BlueChip [0] (~bluechip@cpc3-colc1-3-0-cust61.colc.cable.ntl.com) |
| 10:07:50 | BlueChip | brb |
| 10:10:44 | BlueChip | answering machine ....I'l try again in 20mins or so |
| 10:10:47 | BlueChip | anyway... |
| 10:11:08 | BlueChip | you say: one of my emails is a clear indicator that I am "forking" ....which one? |
| 10:11:18 | Bagder | the announcement one |
| 10:11:32 | Bagder | but that is not that important |
| 10:11:45 | Bagder | in my eyes and terms, you are doing a rockbox fork |
| 10:11:49 | BlueChip | My long term aim is that it will only require the Audio_3587.rock file, but that requires certain core code changes. |
| 10:11:56 | BlueChip | quoted from the email |
| 10:12:08 | Bagder | those were more extensive than I was aware of |
| 10:12:50 | BlueChip | so I hope you can now see that is a clear indicator of NOT "forking" |
| 10:13:00 | BlueChip | the changes are extensive you say? |
| 10:13:38 | Bagder | yes |
| 10:13:40 | Bagder | a bit too |
| 10:13:51 | Bagder | I think we should settle on the main issue first |
| 10:14:00 | Bagder | then everything else will be fine |
| 10:14:02 | BlueChip | I cannot believe I am arguing about something that can be proven so simply ...implement the required changes and watch the "fork" disappear |
| 10:14:27 | Bagder | the lang stuff for example is not simple, it is ugly |
| 10:14:31 | BlueChip | I have told you I am not forking - what would I possibly gain by lying??? |
| 10:14:44 | Bagder | but again, I think the main issue it not the code or the patches |
| 10:15:26 | BlueChip | i think "bluechip forking" is the SOLE reason I tracked you down today |
| 10:15:36 | Bagder | yes |
| 10:15:42 | Bagder | but the reason for the fork is... |
| 10:15:44 | BlueChip | he is not |
| 10:15:53 | BlueChip | there is no fork |
| 10:15:57 | BlueChip | lol |
| 10:16:02 | Bagder | that we cannot accept your code into rockbox without a real person to acknowledge |
| 10:16:32 | BlueChip | i am real |
| 10:16:38 | Bagder | so you say |
| 10:16:51 | Bagder | but when someone sues, it is better to know more details |
| 10:17:00 | BlueChip | i kinda think "I don't believe you exist" kinda kills the conversation |
| 10:17:25 | BlueChip | dude if someone sues, reverse my ip |
| 10:17:58 | Zagor | BlueChip: post-sco, i don't want to play silly games. no name, no merge. |
| 10:18:04 | BlueChip | so I say "my name is Fred West" ...you have no choice but to believe me - here we go again - three hours of this I had with linus |
| 10:18:37 | Zagor | yeah call me silly, then again you don't get to chat with the lawyers. |
| 10:18:41 | BlueChip | yes, you have made yourself perfectly clear |
| 10:18:51 | Bagder | so, you have a fork |
| 10:18:51 | BlueChip | cool |
| 10:19:04 | BlueChip | there is no fork |
| 10:19:06 | Bagder | I don't think its cool |
| 10:19:24 | Bagder | by definition, I think your projects meats all requirements to call it a fork |
| 10:19:25 | BlueChip | what I am saying is, if you want to be stubborn too, I am alright with that |
| 10:19:36 | Bagder | really |
| 10:19:48 | Zagor | i'm not being stubborn. i'm being legal. |
| 10:19:49 | Bagder | who's stubborn? |
| 10:20:01 | Bagder | we can motivate this standpoint |
| 10:20:03 | BlueChip | yes, I said it in posts to your zagor you will have undoubtedly read also |
| 10:20:17 | BlueChip | we are, we both have views which we will not change |
| 10:20:36 | BlueChip | we can fight, or learn to live together with our differences, i prefer the latter |
| 10:20:44 | Zagor | if you want to call me names for ensuring Rockbox has a clean legal sheet, then go ahead. you'll only look stupid. |
| 10:21:02 | BlueChip | WHAT!? |
| 10:21:10 | BlueChip | where did that come from? |
| 10:21:30 | BlueChip | am i here just to be slandered or to work on a viable solution? |
| 10:21:46 | Zagor | oh, grow up or read up on slander. |
| 10:22:14 | BlueChip | how much would you like me to grow up by? |
| 10:22:36 | BlueChip | slander is spoken, i consider this textual chat to be spoken in as much as it is in real time |
| 10:22:53 | Bagder | it isn't slander, BlueChip |
| 10:23:14 | Bagder | Björn is asking for some backup from the people that contribute |
| 10:23:24 | BlueChip | can we drop this stupid pointless childish arguing crap and talk about how to work together |
| 10:23:37 | Bagder | but how can we work together if we can't use your code? |
| 10:23:55 | BlueChip | We find a compromise |
| 10:24:01 | Bagder | such as? |
| 10:24:42 | BlueChip | you use the core changes without credit and I release the plugin myself |
| 10:25:34 | Zagor | that's not a solution to the real problem |
| 10:25:51 | BlueChip | is it a solution to the immediate problem? |
| 10:26:00 | BlueChip | real or imaginary |
| 10:26:17 | Zagor | not really, since we haven't even started discussing the merits of the changes |
| 10:26:31 | BlueChip | go4it |
| 10:26:40 | BlueChip | ask away |
| 10:27:53 | Bagder | most of what you ask is not available as patches |
| 10:28:00 | Bagder | nor have they been discussed on the list |
| 10:28:13 | Zagor | how do you plan to keep from confusing people when 80% volume means different things before and after running your plugin? |
| 10:28:39 | BlueChip | i don't - that is the nature of the new volume scale |
| 10:28:53 | Zagor | that scale is only present in your plugin |
| 10:28:57 | Bagder | why have several scales? |
| 10:29:02 | BlueChip | at the moment yes |
| 10:29:13 | BlueChip | not several, just one, that works better then the RB one |
| 10:29:23 | Bagder | define "works better" ? |
| 10:29:24 | Zagor | so your plugin depends on changing the core sound code? |
| 10:29:39 | BlueChip | offers more control over the audio levels in the listening range |
| 10:29:54 | | Join amiconn [0] (~jens@pD95D10DF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:30:26 | Zagor | it still doesn't change the fact that you will make alterations that are not reflected in the core user interface |
| 10:30:31 | BlueChip | the new scale could be on/off with a switch |
| 10:31:05 | BlueChip | sorry, the typing is a line of two out of sync - that was my answer to "define better" |
| 10:31:22 | Bagder | then we have the lang stuff you want to do |
| 10:31:23 | BlueChip | and no, better does not mean no changes |
| 10:31:30 | Bagder | and the odd running your plugin from core code |
| 10:31:34 | BlueChip | you mean voice? |
| 10:31:45 | Bagder | I don't know, you mentioned lang.h |
| 10:32:04 | BlueChip | i need to include it to use the talk interface |
| 10:32:15 | Bagder | and we haven't seen any "autoexec.bat" patch to my knowledge |
| 10:32:27 | BlueChip | autoexec: idc-dragon i think mentioned it |
| 10:33:00 | BlueChip | lang: i managed to do it all with existing quotes, but i would have liked "centre" and "preset" |
| 10:33:03 | Bagder | and what is a .vol file? |
| 10:33:09 | Zagor | it sounds like you are not really making a plugin at all, you are making a major patch for the sound code. which is fine, but requires a lot more discussion to be accepted. |
| 10:33:28 | Bagder | you ask for lots of stuff without detailing, and it makes me utterly confused |
| 10:33:37 | BlueChip | .vol: essentially an MAS register dump ...see struct globals in my code |
| 10:33:54 | BlueChip | the detail is in the file for which i sent you the link |
| 10:33:58 | Bagder | I'm not allowed to use your code, so I don't read it |
| 10:34:18 | BlueChip | ok |
| 10:34:26 | Bagder | I read submitted patches |
| 10:34:33 | BlueChip | should I even discuss it with you? |
| 10:34:39 | Bagder | yes |
| 10:34:42 | Bagder | discuss is the word |
| 10:34:49 | Bagder | please explain |
| 10:35:01 | BlueChip | .vol has stuff in it that changes the sound when used with the Audio-3587 plugin |
| 10:35:16 | Bagder | what stuff and how does it change the sound? |
| 10:35:16 | BlueChip | more info? |
| 10:35:58 | Bagder | btw |
| 10:36:15 | Bagder | isn't that vol stuff simply gonna be invoked by the standard viewers concept? |
| 10:36:32 | BlueChip | screen layout info, custom settings, mas register dump |
| 10:36:40 | BlueChip | and a file id |
| 10:37:07 | BlueChip | yes, of course, standard viewers -cool - another problem solved by us :) |
| 10:37:38 | Bagder | ? |
| 10:38:22 | BlueChip | standard viewers, i guess you mean some text registry file or such, in which case, yes it will solve the problem |
| 10:38:36 | Bagder | I mean viewers.config |
| 10:38:40 | Bagder | check your cvs |
| 10:38:55 | Bagder | its there already |
| 10:38:56 | BlueChip | is it in? |
| 10:39:13 | Bagder | yeps |
| 10:39:16 | BlueChip | kewl - been working hard on this and haven't updated in a few days |
| 10:39:39 | BlueChip | okay ...one down, what's next? |
| 10:39:46 | BlueChip | my phone call... brb |
| 10:42:00 | BlueChip | hmmm, may have to call this short in about 30mins - gotta fix my answering machine for an important call back later :( |
| 10:42:32 | BlueChip | meanwhile ...back on the ranch... |
| 10:43:31 | BlueChip | still there? |
| 10:43:52 | Bagder | you mentioned item a to g in your reply |
| 10:44:47 | BlueChip | a ...add talk() to plugin.h |
| 10:44:59 | Bagder | have you discussed this on the list? |
| 10:45:11 | BlueChip | yes |
| 10:45:16 | Bagder | and? |
| 10:45:26 | BlueChip | it requires (b) which linus says "No" |
| 10:45:37 | BlueChip | as mentioned in the email |
| 10:45:56 | Bagder | I haven't read that on the list |
| 10:46:05 | BlueChip | brb |
| 10:46:07 | Bagder | so I can't comment |
| 10:47:43 | BlueChip | bak |
| 10:47:53 | Bagder | besides |
| 10:47:56 | Bagder | I tend to agree |
| 10:48:05 | Bagder | the lang.h stuff is generated for the firmware build |
| 10:48:13 | Bagder | it may change, while the plugin API does not |
| 10:48:35 | Bagder | so plugins can't know what sounds to play |
| 10:49:07 | Bagder | certainly an area we could or even should address somehow |
| 10:49:36 | BlueChip | i think it would be nice to have speech-capable plugins - the vocab is restricted, but for a blind person... |
| 10:49:45 | Bagder | I agree |
| 10:49:54 | Bagder | I think we should have language support too |
| 10:49:58 | Bagder | but we don't have that either |
| 10:50:06 | BlueChip | except for sokoban - lol |
| 10:50:41 | BlueChip | yes, I did all my language strings at the top of my code, so it's all ready to go |
| 10:51:05 | Bagder | sokoban doesn't have language support |
| 10:51:10 | BlueChip | it even has a #define SPEAK_AMERICAN ...lol |
| 10:51:33 | BlueChip | sokoban has an entry in the laguage table |
| 10:51:38 | Bagder | yes |
| 10:51:41 | Bagder | but it isn't used |
| 10:51:50 | Bagder | it is from before we had the plugins like this |
| 10:51:54 | BlueChip | sorry, it was intended as a joke |
| 10:52:02 | Bagder | my point is: |
| 10:52:06 | Bagder | we fix the concept first |
| 10:52:12 | Bagder | then add functions for it |
| 10:52:56 | BlueChip | sounds like a sensible approach |
| 10:53:53 | Bagder | in many cases, this means it'll take a long time until we add functions |
| 10:53:58 | Bagder | like for languages in plugins |
| 10:54:27 | BlueChip | i can wait |
| 10:54:37 | BlueChip | time is my friend |
| 10:57:37 | | Join NibbIer [0] (nibbler@port-212-202-78-119.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 10:58:19 | Bagder | that is a) and b) right? |
| 10:58:27 | BlueChip | think so :) |
| 10:58:38 | Bagder | item c) sounds too much of a hack, we need to make that more generic |
| 10:59:21 | BlueChip | yeah, it is rather, can we leave that until last? |
| 10:59:55 | Bagder | item d) hasn't been done, has it? |
| 11:00 |
| 11:00:18 | BlueChip | d) could be concluded by an autoexec.bat file ...which has been discussed re car-head units and i recall a few other ideas being thrown in the pot |
| 11:00:29 | Bagder | it has been discussed, yes |
| 11:00:40 | LinusN | an "autoexec" mechanism sounds ok with me |
| 11:00:46 | Bagder | it is a good idea |
| 11:00:51 | BlueChip | i like it too |
| 11:01:00 | Bagder | like "run this plugin on startup with this argument" |
| 11:01:03 | BlueChip | much better than my current bodge by 10000x |
| 11:01:06 | Bagder | plugins rather |
| 11:01:11 | BlueChip | yes |
| 11:01:33 | BlueChip | maybe later to include things like IF PLUGGED |
| 11:01:49 | LinusN | which means? |
| 11:02:02 | BlueChip | load different settings if the unit is connected to the mains |
| 11:02:07 | LinusN | ah |
| 11:02:14 | Bagder | yes, it could make sense |
| 11:02:27 | Zagor | a general event handler seems the way to go. |
| 11:03:04 | BlueChip | not sure i understand |
| 11:03:25 | LinusN | Zagor: calling a plugin when the charger is inserted? |
| 11:03:41 | Zagor | yup |
| 11:04:16 | Zagor | not just a plugin though, different actions. many people probably want to load a different .cfg, for car use. |
| 11:05:16 | LinusN | dream on, zagor... :-) |
| 11:05:54 | Bagder | Zagor: it could be a plugin that loads that different .cfg |
| 11:05:57 | BlueChip | sounds damn cool to me |
| 11:07:12 | Zagor | my point is if/when someone writes autoexec code, it should be done in a generic way to allow use for different events. |
| 11:07:13 | BlueChip | of course! ...for the simpler autoexec idea ...write a plugin called autoexec.rock and just call that from the core code ...the delay is irrelevant, the disk needs to spin up to run the first .rock anyway |
| 11:07:35 | Bagder | I agree |
| 11:08:03 | dwihno | What if you want to launch several plugins? |
| 11:08:10 | Zagor | you can't |
| 11:08:25 | dwihno | In the Future(tm), everything will be possible :) |
| 11:08:27 | Bagder | the autoexec.rock could use a config file and run whatever you tell it to |
| 11:08:29 | BlueChip | dwihno: you just have a text file with a list of events |
| 11:08:35 | BlueChip | like autoexec.bat |
| 11:08:47 | dwihno | neato |
| 11:08:58 | BlueChip | ok ....d) is gone |
| 11:09:12 | LinusN | or the .cfg files could be able to run a plugin... |
| 11:09:40 | LinusN | then it would be autoexec.cfg |
| 11:09:45 | BlueChip | lol |
| 11:10:02 | BlueChip | i suggest you only ever call PlugChain.rock and let that do all the work :) |
| 11:10:20 | Bagder | no, that's left for emacs.rock ;-P |
| 11:10:27 | BlueChip | lol |
| 11:13:22 | BlueChip | can we move onto e |
| 11:14:22 | Bagder | e) must be completely stand-alone and won't be in the way, right? |
| 11:14:35 | LinusN | i think it should go right in |
| 11:14:44 | Bagder | me too |
| 11:15:06 | BlueChip | then f ...which we've already covered |
| 11:15:21 | BlueChip | and is no longer an issue - i need to look into that further |
| 11:15:43 | Bagder | you'll figure out the viewers.config file in no time |
| 11:15:51 | BlueChip | cool :) |
| 11:16:04 | BlueChip | g ..hmmmm |
| 11:16:20 | Bagder | we really should write some docs about it |
| 11:16:26 | BlueChip | yes, it is a real change, but I think a worthy one |
| 11:16:40 | BlueChip | there is a lot of room for more docs in rockbox |
| 11:16:43 | Bagder | I don't understand the g) point |
| 11:16:47 | BlueChip | we need a manual man |
| 11:16:50 | Bagder | yes |
| 11:17:21 | BlueChip | g ...my volume scale is not linear |
| 11:17:34 | BlueChip | ie 127/100*volume |
| 11:18:06 | Bagder | but that's a plugin |
| 11:18:17 | Bagder | it works around the core |
| 11:18:26 | BlueChip | I propose that it is considered for inclusion |
| 11:18:35 | BlueChip | that Rockbox change it's scale |
| 11:19:18 | BlueChip | it's a big change, yes, and adding another switch to on/off it is extra work, but I think it is a worthy improvement |
| 11:19:38 | BlueChip | I believe in it enought to research it and do it properly |
| 11:19:57 | Bagder | still not a single soul has reported volume problems |
| 11:20:27 | BlueChip | it's a case of not knowing that it can be made better |
| 11:20:30 | Bagder | except for those who like you realized that there are some resolution losses in current code |
| 11:20:55 | BlueChip | indeed - and I made it my job to fix it and offer it to the community |
| 11:21:38 | BlueChip | if they like it, it might be nice to adopt it for rockbox |
| 11:21:48 | Bagder | except that we're not allowed to use your patches |
| 11:22:03 | Bagder | back to square 1 |
| 11:22:27 | BlueChip | you don't use my patch - work it out for yourself fom the results in the public forum |
| 11:22:57 | Bagder | anyway, that g) issue is also stand-alone |
| 11:22:59 | BlueChip | btw... you CHOOSE not to use my code for reasons that are not known to me |
| 11:23:05 | Bagder | they are known |
| 11:23:13 | Bagder | scroll back 100 lines |
| 11:23:22 | BlueChip | no thanks |
| 11:25:27 | Bagder | I suggest that we solve the problem like this: you provide the core group with your real, actual, name, we keep it hidden from the public and we credit you as "Anonymous nicknamed Bluechip" or somesuch |
| 11:25:58 | BlueChip | how many different ways do i have to prove im not lying |
| 11:26:13 | Bagder | why do you ask that? |
| 11:26:26 | Bagder | then forget it |
| 11:26:42 | LinusN | why would you lie? |
| 11:26:47 | BlueChip | it is a fair question |
| 11:27:20 | BlueChip | LinusN: Bagder has apparently retracted his offer before I could answer his question :( |
| 11:27:39 | Bagder | then how do you suggest we solve this? |
| 11:27:52 | Bagder | I reach out here |
| 11:27:54 | Bagder | you do not |
| 11:27:58 | BlueChip | by being nice to each other or a start |
| 11:28:10 | BlueChip | i have offered a solution |
| 11:28:22 | Bagder | which is? |
| 11:28:46 | BlueChip | take the core changes and pretend it was someone elses idea |
| 11:30:21 | LinusN | and constantly hear things like this in the mailing list: |
| 11:30:24 | LinusN | "I think the chances of NewMP3Tech crediting you is about as unlikely as Rockbox crediting me." |
| 11:30:30 | LinusN | ? |
| 11:30:56 | BlueChip | please put the whole thing in context |
| 11:31:15 | BlueChip | jorg was complaining to me personally that his work was uncredited |
| 11:31:26 | BlueChip | i replied "me too" |
| 11:31:29 | Zagor | the ideas are not special. the point is we want to offload the work of writing the code. your solution gives us no benefit. |
| 11:31:52 | Zagor | that was not the context. read the archive. |
| 11:32:17 | BlueChip | here we go again |
| 11:32:24 | BlueChip | i'm getting real bored of this guys |
| 11:32:30 | LinusN | so are we |
| 11:32:46 | BlueChip | so how do we resolve it? |
| 11:32:54 | LinusN | i think daniels idea was good |
| 11:32:59 | BlueChip | by "mud slinging"? |
| 11:33:07 | Zagor | i don't |
| 11:33:46 | BlueChip | you were downright rude at me in your private emails |
| 11:34:12 | | Join Bagder_ [241] (~dast@labb.contactor.se) |
| 11:34:23 | LinusN | i was? |
| 11:34:29 | LinusN | or zagor? |
| 11:34:43 | BlueChip | zagor |
| 11:34:58 | Zagor | you repeatedly refused to ask my question. you still do. that, if anything, is rude. |
| 11:35:06 | | Quit Bagder (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
| 11:35:06 | NSplit | anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net |
| 11:35:06 | | Quit Hes (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
| 11:35:09 | LinusN | s/ask/answer/ |
| 11:35:14 | Zagor | right |
| 11:35:16 | | Nick Bagder_ is now known as Bagder (~dast@labb.contactor.se) |
| 11:36:45 | BlueChip | i took a three hour grilling from Linus over this - I just can;t be arsed to go through it again and again |
| 11:36:59 | BlueChip | grilling is perhpas a harsh word |
| 11:36:59 | LinusN | :-) |
| 11:36:59 | LinusN | bbq:ing? |
| 11:37:00 | BlueChip | ...but it was discussed in immense depth for three hours |
| 11:37:12 | BlueChip | lol |
| 11:37:49 | Zagor | and therefore I am rude. go figure. |
| 11:37:50 | | Quit Bagder (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
| 11:37:50 | | Quit dwihno (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
| 11:37:50 | | Quit webmind (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
| 11:37:50 | | Quit Hadaka (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
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| 11:42:27 | | Quit BlueChip (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
| 11:42:27 | | Quit silencer (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
| 11:42:27 | | Quit LinusN (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
| 11:42:27 | | Quit Ka_ (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
| 11:42:27 | | Quit NHI (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
| 11:43:29 | NHeal | anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net |
| 11:43:29 | NJoin | Hes [0] (~hessu@he.fi) |
| 11:43:29 | NJoin | Bagder [241] (~dast@labb.contactor.se) |
| 11:43:29 | NJoin | webmind [0] (~cme2@217-195-236-172.dsl.esined.net) |
| 11:43:29 | NJoin | Hadaka [0] (naked@naked.iki.fi) |
| 11:43:29 | NJoin | dwihno [0] (~dw@81.8.224.89) |
| 11:44:11 | Zagor | lovely splits |
| 11:45:45 | NJoin | amiconn [0] (~jens@pD95D10DF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:45:45 | NJoin | BlueChip [0] (~bluechip@cpc3-colc1-3-0-cust61.colc.cable.ntl.com) |
| 11:45:45 | NJoin | LinusN [200] (~linus@labb.contactor.se) |
| 11:45:45 | NJoin | AciD` [0] (~acid@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 11:45:45 | NJoin | ze [20] (psyco@adsl-67-123-40-187.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 11:45:45 | NJoin | mbr_ [0] (~mb@stz-softwaretechnik.com) |
| 11:45:45 | NJoin | julia [0] (~julia@207-36-180-196.ptr.primarydns.com) |
| 11:45:45 | NJoin | silencer [0] (~silencer@nino.via.ecp.fr) |
| 11:45:45 | NJoin | NHI [0] (doc@b089204.customer.hansenet.de) |
| 11:45:45 | NJoin | Ka_ [0] (~tkirk@pcp04776551pcs.howard01.md.comcast.net) |
| 11:46:54 | lImbus | the new opera irc-client doesn't even notify of nSplit. It just says "nick" has disconnected |
| 11:48:16 | | Quit mbr_ (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
| 11:48:16 | | Quit AciD` (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
| 11:48:16 | | Quit julia (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
| 11:48:16 | | Quit ze (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
| 11:48:16 | | Quit silencer (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
| 11:48:16 | | Quit LinusN (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
| 11:48:16 | | Quit BlueChip (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
| 11:48:16 | | Quit amiconn (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
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| 11:48:16 | | Quit NHI (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
| 11:51:36 | NJoin | NHI [0] (doc@b089204.customer.hansenet.de) |
| 11:51:38 | NJoin | AciD` [0] (~acid@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 11:51:38 | NJoin | julia [0] (~julia@207-36-180-196.ptr.primarydns.com) |
| 11:51:38 | NJoin | mbr_ [0] (~mb@stz-softwaretechnik.com) |
| 11:51:38 | NJoin | ze [20] (psyco@adsl-67-123-40-187.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 11:51:40 | NJoin | amiconn [0] (~jens@pD95D10DF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:51:40 | NJoin | BlueChip [0] (~bluechip@cpc3-colc1-3-0-cust61.colc.cable.ntl.com) |
| 11:51:40 | NJoin | LinusN [200] (~linus@labb.contactor.se) |
| 11:51:40 | NJoin | silencer [0] (~silencer@nino.via.ecp.fr) |
| 11:54:10 | NJoin | Ka_ [0] (~tkirk@pcp04776551pcs.howard01.md.comcast.net) |
| 11:56:09 | BlueChip | welcome back one and all |
| 11:56:51 | BlueChip | c ...shal we just leave this until people rave about the new plugin and then consider the best solution then - we've already proved we can work together well if we put the rubbish behind us |
| 11:57:39 | BlueChip | <a hush falls> |
| 11:57:55 | BlueChip | have you guys all left? |
| 11:58:06 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 12:00 |
| 12:07:45 | lImbus | Scansoft's Realspeak is an even better text-to-speech-engine |
| 12:08:19 | lImbus | there are roumors it's in the house here, but nobody knows where I can get a copy. |
| 12:08:37 | BlueChip | kazaa? |
| 12:16:16 | BlueChip | hmm, "goodbye" would have been nice - still I presume that some important "nmi" type thing happened and wish you well with that as well :) |
| 12:30:48 | lImbus | BlueChip: Sorry, I am at work, so it happens someone asks me to help him or sth like that. |
| 12:30:53 | lImbus | whats nmi ? |
| 12:31:27 | lImbus | kazaa doesn't work for me, not at work :-/ furthermore, we got a LEGAL version at work |
| 12:31:57 | BlueChip | sorry limbus, not aimed at you, i was in a heavy chat with Zagor and Bagder, and they both just stopped talking when Linus went to lunch |
| 12:32:08 | BlueChip | non-maskable-interrupt |
| 12:34:55 | lImbus | IC. i'm off for lunch now too. |
| 12:44:27 | Zagor | we were off for lunch |
| 12:45:00 | LinusN | we work in the same building |
| 12:45:24 | BlueChip | ahhhhh, it all becomes clear |
| 12:46:03 | BlueChip | anyway, i used the time to rapair my answerphone :) |
| 12:46:45 | BlueChip | bought it 2nd hand (old two phillips cassette style one) ...the messages on it were quite amusing |
| 12:47:28 | BlueChip | wooh - first time :) |
| 12:47:34 | BlueChip | *oo |
| 12:47:35 | BlueChip | lol |
| 12:52:26 | BlueChip | did you want to comment on my solution to c) |
| 12:53:32 | LinusN | which one? |
| 12:54:31 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK BlueChip |
| 12:54:31 | BlueChip | c ...shal we just leave this until people rave about the new plugin and then consider the best solution then |
| 12:55:06 | Bagder | yes |
| 12:55:31 | BlueChip | then everything is resolved :) |
| 12:56:20 | LinusN | BlueChip: the volume fade thing when powering off, is the fade important, or is the ridding of the pop enough? |
| 12:56:36 | BlueChip | ridding the pop |
| 12:56:56 | LinusN | ok |
| 12:56:58 | BlueChip | you're gonna tell me the mute does it aren;t you - lol |
| 12:57:25 | LinusN | well, i have though about using the mute for it, have you tried it? |
| 12:57:48 | BlueChip | no, i didn't know the register, those lines I just banged out from memory |
| 12:58:16 | LinusN | the correct way is probably to mute, then turn off the D/A |
| 12:58:22 | BlueChip | but I do recall something about ramping in the manual, hence mt 0.1S delay at the end |
| 12:58:44 | BlueChip | turn off d/a seems anal - in the good way |
| 12:58:56 | LinusN | iirc, the manual recommends it |
| 12:59:05 | BlueChip | in which case i retract that comment |
| 12:59:18 | BlueChip | maybe some silicon reason |
| 13:00 |
| 13:00:41 | BlueChip | it would be really nice to trap it before hardware powerdown too |
| 13:01:10 | LinusN | hmm, i can't find it in the manual, i guess i was wrong |
| 13:01:40 | BlueChip | well, it'll save a few bytes |
| 13:02:15 | BlueChip | done lots of that the past few days - spent half my time optimising code to be under 32K after optimising it for screen update speed - lol |
| 13:03:17 | BlueChip | did you know static const char foo[0]="foo" is identical to #define foo "foo" as far as codespace is concerned ...but #define allows prep-processor string manipulation :) |
| 13:09:36 | BlueChip | What do you think of the new Audio stuff? |
| 13:09:47 | Bagder | I haven't seen it |
| 13:10:08 | Bagder | so I can't comment |
| 13:10:26 | BlueChip | do you plan to remain untainted? |
| 13:10:36 | Bagder | basicly, yes |
| 13:11:00 | BlueChip | that's fair, it's good to have principles :) |
| 13:11:06 | Bagder | but its also a matter of time |
| 13:11:41 | BlueChip | oh, by the way, what's happnening with my othelo code, i'm surprised you lawyers didn't mention it when you spoke to them |
| 13:11:49 | Bagder | it will be removed |
| 13:12:09 | BlueChip | cool, then I can remove the old version from my site :) |
| 13:12:12 | Bagder | unfortunately |
| 13:12:45 | BlueChip | nah dude, I'm surprised you didn't do it a long time ago, I guessed you didn't want all the questions about why |
| 13:14:07 | BlueChip | "but its also a matter of time" ...til what? |
| 13:14:20 | Bagder | that limits what I do |
| 13:14:39 | BlueChip | aha |
| 13:14:44 | LinusN | rather "lack of time" |
| 13:14:51 | Bagder | yes |
| 13:14:58 | BlueChip | well feel free to use it or not use it as you prefer :) |
| 13:15:27 | BlueChip | it is DAMN awesome though ;) |
| 13:15:57 | Bagder | :-) |
| 13:17:10 | BlueChip | hey, dude, if you're worried about some legal backlash, why not we agree on an appropriate legal disclaimer? |
| 13:18:21 | BlueChip | my post has just arrived ....the top letter is a parcel (some chewing gum) from a friend addressed to "BC" ;) |
| 13:18:39 | BlueChip | even the postman knows me as BC - lol |
| 13:18:54 | Zagor | you are not a legal entity. we cannot have an agreement with you. |
| 13:19:14 | BlueChip | ok, just offering options |
| 13:20:00 | Zagor | i'd love to have an agreement with you, but it would be worthless unless we (or rather the lawyers) know who you are. |
| 13:20:35 | BlueChip | perhaps I should deal with your lawyers directly, who are they? |
| 13:21:04 | Zagor | I am talking about future lawyers, hired by the guys who sue us. |
| 13:21:47 | BlueChip | what are they going to be sueing for? |
| 13:21:54 | LinusN | code theft maybe? |
| 13:22:03 | Zagor | copyright infringment, perhaps? |
| 13:22:29 | BlueChip | neither of which I have done - so these are fears of what does not exist? |
| 13:22:46 | Bagder | just see the samizdat book |
| 13:23:13 | Zagor | BlueChip: mere words weigh lightly in these matters, I'm afraid :( |
| 13:23:49 | BlueChip | so, i email you and say "my name is fred smith" and you just believe me right? |
| 13:23:55 | LinusN | yes |
| 13:24:03 | Bagder | if we have no reason to doubt |
| 13:24:08 | BlueChip | ahhhh |
| 13:24:13 | Bagder | which you now have given us |
| 13:24:15 | BlueChip | the get out clauses |
| 13:24:20 | Zagor | you don't have to convince me about this. but I need to be able to convince some company in the future who says we've done wrong. |
| 13:24:48 | BlueChip | but my dear zagor, i DO have to convince you, that is what this is all about, isn't it? |
| 13:24:55 | Bagder | yes |
| 13:25:00 | Bagder | but if you tricked us |
| 13:25:02 | Zagor | and "we got this code from some guy who calls himself Bluechip" is not a very good defense. |
| 13:25:09 | BlueChip | i have to convince you I am not trying to stiff you by writing loads of code for you |
| 13:25:24 | Zagor | no. you are not a problem. our liability is. |
| 13:25:33 | BlueChip | that information is easy to suppoena |
| 13:25:36 | BlueChip | (sp?) |
| 13:26:13 | BlueChip | well, as me telling you my name is no longer good enough, what other solution can you offer? |
| 13:26:26 | Bagder | it is good enough |
| 13:26:31 | Bagder | if you tell us your real name |
| 13:26:42 | Zagor | we need your real and legally binding name. it's as simple as that. |
| 13:29:17 | BlueChip | for which you assure me of your absolute silence outside of a legal issue when my name will only be given where legally required and I am credited in rockbox as BlueChip, have I got the deal right? |
| 13:29:44 | | Join oxygen77 [0] (~Chris@pauguste-7-82-66-87-78.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 13:31:26 | Hes | Heh, this is an interesting discussion. These days I rather give out my real name than my email address on the Internet - the email address identifies myself more uniquely than my name (which is still relatively uncommon and the family name is protected 8-) |
| 13:32:20 | BlueChip | I agree, I am imminently traceable from my emails, but you need a legal suppoena to do it :) |
| 13:32:53 | Hes | (subpoena, i guess the sp) |
| 13:32:59 | BlueChip | thanks |
| 13:34:09 | Zagor | BlueChip: i'm afraid not. i will not accept code without a the author's name on it. |
| 13:34:49 | BlueChip | I am disappointed that you have retracted your earlier offer |
| 13:35:09 | Zagor | i gave an offer? |
| 13:35:19 | Bagder | you mix people up all the time BlueChip |
| 13:35:19 | BlueChip | indeed you did |
| 13:35:27 | Bagder | *I* asked you that |
| 13:35:32 | Zagor | that was bagder's idea, iirc. and you never responded to it. |
| 13:36:57 | BlueChip | checking logs for sanity |
| 13:37:20 | BlueChip | so if i don't respond immediately, the offer is implicitly retracted? |
| 13:37:49 | Bagder | it was a question from me if that was a working approach for you |
| 13:38:00 | Bagder | I was not saying that I speak for the whole project |
| 13:38:21 | Bagder | I hardly ever do |
| 13:38:41 | BlueChip | yep, you are, of course, right, I got my wires crossed on who, sorry |
| 13:39:01 | BlueChip | been up for 28hrs, so I'm blaming that |
| 13:41:58 | | Join Guest02330 [0] (~jirc@202.5.88.150) |
| 13:42:01 | LinusN | stop drinking all that tea |
| 13:42:20 | BlueChip | so, this is more than a legal ass-covering excercise then ...hmmm |
| 13:43:46 | Zagor | this is becoming much more of a nuisance than your code is worth, to be honest. |
| 13:44:27 | BlueChip | please tell me if I am wrong |
| 13:50:25 | | Quit Guest02330 ("Leaving") |
| 13:51:39 | Zagor | wrong about what? |
| 13:52:05 | LinusN | about it not only being a legal ass-covering exercise |
| 13:54:35 | Zagor | it's about not making rockbox a viable target for legal harrassment. the solution is spelled transparence. |
| 13:54:41 | BlueChip | i trust you understand that "ass-covering" is a commonturn of phrase |
| 13:57:19 | LinusN | i think it's spelled "transparency" :-) |
| 13:57:28 | BlueChip | yes, but I understood |
| 13:57:55 | LinusN | just teasing zagor |
| 13:58:07 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 14:00 |
| 14:00:23 | BlueChip | well, we seem to be at an empass ...the only code you ever took of mine was the othelo code - so you might want to consider the legal ramifications of that, I will stop submitting code for rockbox, but will carry on support the community with help, devkit, toys, etc and as for this mega-audio plugin ...well it seems that Rockbox is going that way anyway, so the "fork" (which is not a fork (matrix?)) will be temporary like those |
| 14:02:24 | dwihno | What is the english word for the grill contraption? :) |
| 14:02:25 | dwihno | Grill? |
| 14:02:37 | BlueChip | lol |
| 14:02:53 | Zagor | haha |
| 14:02:54 | BlueChip | I'll let you know when the searing stops - lol |
| 14:05:24 | dwihno | Zagor: help me out on this one :) |
| 14:06:05 | Zagor | are you talking about the metal device positioned atop burning coal? |
| 14:07:15 | dwihno | you bet :D |
| 14:07:44 | dwihno | It's a grill. |
| 14:07:47 | dwihno | Yes. It is. |
| 14:07:51 | dwihno | I've decided that now. |
| 14:07:57 | Ctcp | Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
| 14:07:57 | * | dwihno is doing some translation stuff |
| 14:08:09 | dwihno | "Grill with lava rocks" |
| 14:08:25 | Zagor | "grill: A cooking surface of metal bars; a gridiron" |
| 14:08:56 | dwihno | Mmm. The Grid. Swamp thing. Texas cowboys. |
| 14:09:12 | Zagor | how 90s of you ;) |
| 14:10:15 | dwihno | ... combined with our grill with lava rocks ... |
| 14:10:21 | dwihno | with with with with |
| 14:10:26 | dwihno | does that sound too bad? |
| 14:10:32 | dwihno | I am SO 90's! |
| 14:11:18 | | Join kurzhaarrocker [0] (~knoppix@p508763DF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:11:19 | BlueChip | yes :( |
| 14:11:30 | BlueChip | (to the bad? thing) |
| 14:12:21 | dwihno | how should it sound then? :) |
| 14:12:36 | | Part kurzhaarrocker |
| 14:13:00 | BlueChip | what is combined? |
| 14:13:08 | BlueChip | ...with it |
| 14:13:54 | dwihno | high grade meat and ingredients :) |
| 14:13:56 | BlueChip | I think "grill with lava rocks" is probably the problem, but I guess that the product description |
| 14:14:04 | BlueChip | ok.... |
| 14:14:57 | BlueChip | "This Grill with Lave rocks is the perfect companion for those fine cuts of beef" |
| 14:15:01 | BlueChip | Lava |
| 14:15:09 | dwihno | ah |
| 14:15:11 | dwihno | sounds god |
| 14:15:12 | dwihno | good |
| 14:16:04 | BlueChip | linguistics in advertising is a branch of my socio-psychological studies |
| 14:17:12 | BlueChip | get all the good advertising trance phrases from George Carlin's "Advertising Lullabuy" for a load more classics |
| 14:18:01 | | Join mattzz [0] (~c2af7556@c227176.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 14:18:10 | dwihno | buy buy buy? :) |
| 14:18:20 | dwihno | If you call now, you'll get an extra set for FREE! :D |
| 14:19:25 | BlueChip | BUY now you may find yourself wondering if you can grasp the biggest clue of all, because WHEN you call now and pay by credit card .....etc |
| 14:20:09 | BlueChip | the fun stuff is the subliminals, my hompage is covered in that crap |
| 14:22:56 | mattzz | hiho folx |
| 14:23:32 | Bagder | good day mattzz |
| 14:23:58 | mattzz | anybody got a time-zip laying around? |
| 14:24:12 | Bagder | hm, I believe dwihno sells them :-P |
| 14:24:36 | mattzz | hope, it's not too beta |
| 14:24:42 | mattzz | *duck* |
| 14:25:12 | BlueChip | Audio_3587 is just beta enough :) |
| 14:26:11 | BlueChip | I FINALLY finished it |
| 14:38:02 | mattzz | Is there a roadmap or a rough timeline for the next RB release(s)? |
| 14:38:30 | Bagder | my suggestion: once the docs is made, we ship ;-) |
| 14:38:45 | Zagor | sounds good to me |
| 14:38:56 | mattzz | Hm, when could that be? |
| 14:39:16 | Bagder | it'll take a while I think |
| 14:39:16 | Zagor | depends on how much you help with the docs :) |
| 14:39:45 | mattzz | I expected that answere ;-) |
| 14:39:51 | mattzz | -e |
| 14:40:20 | mattzz | and I already asked for a brandnew time-zipper |
| 14:40:41 | Zagor | when you find one, get one for me too ok? |
| 14:41:05 | mattzz | could the task of documentation writing be split into chunks that are distributed to a bunch of people? |
| 14:41:18 | Bagder | it could indeed |
| 14:41:20 | Zagor | absolutely |
| 14:41:22 | mattzz | a todo-list would could be helpful as well |
| 14:41:53 | mattzz | so we could speed up the task by setting priorities |
| 14:41:55 | Bagder | "someone" needs to organize it |
| 14:42:03 | mattzz | maybe the wiki is a starter? |
| 14:42:20 | Bagder | using a wiki for it would be goodness |
| 14:42:20 | LinusN | and i need to fix the recording i broke when implementing the pause feature |
| 14:42:25 | * | mattzz heard somebody shouting "core team" |
| 14:43:32 | Bagder | perhaps we could have "someone" paste the existing manual into a wiki, and then through people at updating the flaws |
| 14:43:37 | Bagder | throw |
| 14:43:52 | BlueChip | Anyone up for an MP3 that the Jukebox cannot play? |
| 14:44:03 | BlueChip | or rather, can only play badly |
| 14:44:07 | Bagder | pass it to linus, he like them! ;-) |
| 14:44:10 | * | Zagor looks at linus :) |
| 14:44:17 | Bagder | damn it I type badly today |
| 14:44:24 | Bagder | almost as bad as my voice is |
| 14:44:40 | mattzz | Do not shout at your keyboard! |
| 14:45:17 | Bagder | why not? I have a microsoft one |
| 14:45:21 | Bagder | :-) |
| 14:46:09 | mattzz | Zagor: is there progress with a twiki installation for rockbox? docs can easily be attached and versioned there, progress/task tables are easy to do as well |
| 14:46:30 | mattzz | maybe it's just a matter of tools |
| 14:46:47 | Zagor | yeah, i'll fix it |
| 14:47:01 | mattzz | If you need help, contact me. |
| 14:47:48 | Zagor | ok, thanks |
| 14:48:06 | mattzz | brb, meeting prep. |
| 14:48:14 | | Nick mattzz is now known as mattzz|away (~c2af7556@c227176.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 15:00 |
| 15:34:49 | | Part LinusN |
| 15:34:49 | | Quit NibbIer (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 15:37:10 | | Part oxygen77 ("Leaving") |
| 15:41:06 | BlueChip | WOOHOO I made PAGE 1 :) |
| 15:41:15 | BlueChip | lol |
| 15:41:20 | BlueChip | JOKING! |
| 15:41:27 | Zagor | :-) |
| 15:58:08 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 16:00 |
| 16:08:31 | | Nick mattzz|away is now known as mattzz (~c2af7556@c227176.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 16:08:34 | mattzz | uff |
| 16:24:58 | mattzz | http://rockbox.gratiswiki.dk/cgi-bin/gratiswiki.pl?DocumentationStatus |
| 16:25:14 | mattzz | it's a start at least |
| 16:25:34 | Bagder | yay |
| 16:26:09 | mattzz | uuhhhh....work! |
| 16:26:20 | | Nick mattzz is now known as mattzz|afk (~c2af7556@c227176.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 16:26:25 | BlueChip | Just so it is in the IRC logs. This is a one line notice (to those who are not on the mailing list) that I have today released Audio_3587, which allows access to the advanced audio setup available to the sound chip found inside all Jukebox Recorder units ...I will not fill the log with the hype - I will let the plugin speak for itself (and it does ...speak, that is) ....It's all here: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/cyborgsystems |
| 16:28:07 | * | Bagder updated DocumentationStatus |
| 16:29:40 | BlueChip | did amiconn restrict the shades to 8/16/32 does anybody know? |
| 16:29:55 | BlueChip | it was apparently worth a 60% speed increase |
| 16:31:33 | amiconn | BlueChip: No, not yet. I didn't have the time to work on grayscale the last days. |
| 16:31:48 | Zagor | BlueChip: cute slogan "no more secrets" ;) |
| 16:32:10 | BlueChip | lol ... the site is covered in that stuff |
| 16:32:31 | Zagor | please also note that the GPL requires you to give out source code with all binaries. |
| 16:32:32 | amiconn | Furthermore, the next thing to implement is full clipping support, and some consolidation |
| 16:32:52 | BlueChip | hello amiconn, didn't spot you off the top of my screen :) |
| 16:33:15 | BlueChip | no gpl means I have to make the source available |
| 16:33:50 | Bagder | BlueChip: thus "coming soon" is breaking the gpl |
| 16:33:57 | BlueChip | and anyway, there's no secrets there, the source is already there but no links yet |
| 16:34:02 | Bagder | techically at least |
| 16:34:05 | BlueChip | lol |
| 16:34:11 | Bagder | gee me and typing |
| 16:34:20 | BlueChip | i didn't even notice |
| 16:34:26 | Zagor | i was more referring to you as a person. "no more secrets" doesn't sound like your thing. ;) |
| 16:35:16 | BlueChip | the code which I have not released for klondike (for which there is a very specific reason) is not gpl, it is a discreet seperate unit to work along side a gpl program |
| 16:35:36 | Bagder | hehe |
| 16:35:40 | Bagder | that's violating the license |
| 16:35:55 | Bagder | bad boy |
| 16:35:58 | BlueChip | Zagor: Don;t you love irony? ;) |
| 16:36:02 | BlueChip | lol |
| 16:36:08 | BlueChip | do you want the source? |
| 16:36:18 | BlueChip | it WILL taint you, but it IS available :P |
| 16:36:34 | Bagder | make it available and I'm happy, I don't need to read it |
| 16:37:11 | Bagder | actually |
| 16:37:16 | BlueChip | well, I don't technically need to, but be assured it is available and will be openly posted when it is fit for poor-programmer consumption |
| 16:37:23 | Bagder | I am happy already, but not giving out the source is not nice |
| 16:37:38 | BlueChip | THE SOURCE IS AVAILABLE! |
| 16:37:43 | Bagder | where? |
| 16:38:12 | BlueChip | direct from the author at no cost (although I am entitled to charge anything I like) on request |
| 16:38:45 | BlueChip | actually, ignore that bracketed bit, that's obvious, cos my code is not GPL'd |
| 16:38:52 | Bagder | ...and you are bound by gpl to provide code |
| 16:39:11 | BlueChip | IF I used your code in the making - which I didn't |
| 16:39:12 | Zagor | dynamic linking is no different from static linking. your code is covered by the Rockbox GPL. |
| 16:39:51 | BlueChip | I don't think I like where this is leading |
| 16:39:56 | Bagder | http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLAndPlugins |
| 16:40:13 | Bagder | this is rockbox |
| 16:40:17 | Bagder | ;-) |
| 16:42:25 | BlueChip | cool - well, I'm not releasing shit code publicly, but public posting of code is not a requirement so that's fair enough |
| 16:42:41 | BlueChip | anyway, you'll get your chance to not look at it when it works properly |
| 16:42:45 | BlueChip | :) |
| 16:42:48 | BlueChip | ;) |
| 16:42:55 | Bagder | that's still a violation |
| 16:43:02 | Bagder | but I won't stress it |
| 16:43:02 | BlueChip | zzzzzzz |
| 16:43:14 | BlueChip | whoops, hit send too sonn |
| 16:43:42 | BlueChip | soon |
| 16:44:25 | BlueChip | so, as this is a purely academic chat, which bit states where I have to post my source code? |
| 16:44:43 | Bagder | the GPL |
| 16:44:57 | BlueChip | yes, the GPL, which bit? |
| 16:45:08 | Bagder | lemme find you a good url... |
| 16:45:17 | Zagor | http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#AnonFTPAndSendSources |
| 16:45:27 | Zagor | that faq is recommended reading |
| 16:46:18 | Bagder | it is paragraph 3 in the GPL |
| 16:46:25 | Bagder | http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html |
| 16:48:07 | BlueChip | jeezuz, i'm not listening to what people have to say on GPL again, I don't think anybody I've ever spoken to understands it - LOL |
| 16:48:24 | BlueChip | this is nothing like that which I have come to believe to be true |
| 16:48:38 | Bagder | you are starting to scare me |
| 16:48:48 | BlueChip | ? |
| 16:48:57 | Zagor | you should listen to the FSF, if anyone :-) |
| 16:49:18 | Hes | Linking to GPL'ed software is considered "derivative work" by the license (as gpl-faq.html#GPLAndPlugins says), and paragraph 3 says that you must give out the source of any derivative works. |
| 16:49:24 | Bagder | BlueChip: your talk about you understanding GPL better than us |
| 16:49:28 | BlueChip | I've never bothered reading it myself, boring, so I just gather information from those who speak knowledgeably on this and certain other lesser matters of life |
| 16:49:32 | Hes | The FSF FAQ (and the license) is very clear on this. |
| 16:49:50 | BlueChip | Bagder: no, quite the contrary |
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| 16:50:18 | BlueChip | the exact opposite, my knowledge seems fatally floured in this area |
| 16:50:46 | Hes | I read the license when I first installed slackware with kernel 1.1.something, it seemed very obvious to me. |
| 16:51:52 | BlueChip | I think the point is that the source code must be supplied from anonymous ftp, so that the source is always available - my site is far from anonymous - but still interesting to consider |
| 16:52:38 | BlueChip | but as you say, it's a matter of not enough time, to much chat |
| 16:52:38 | Zagor | anonymous ftp means the user is anonymous, not the site. http is equivalent - you don't need an account to gain access |
| 16:52:44 | Hes | These things are the reasons some people dislike the GPL strongly, even calling it a virus. The xBSD license are more "free". |
| 16:53:14 | Zagor | yes. you should not choose it without reading it carefully first... |
| 16:53:21 | BlueChip | I don't really care, I give out all my source anyway, but I have heard the term "copyleft" said with distain |
| 16:53:43 | dwihno | I think I prefer the SockerBulle license. |
| 16:53:54 | dwihno | As long as everybody keeps socker on their bullar, I am happy :D |
| 16:54:37 | BlueChip | how about, "post it and let people do whatever" license - now THAT's free speech - don't censor anybody about anything that way |
| 16:54:37 | Hes | "bullar"? |
| 16:55:13 | dwihno | Buns :D |
| 16:55:15 | dwihno | Yum! |
| 16:55:20 | Zagor | BlueChip: yes, that's appropriate for some things. in those cases you don't use the GPL. |
| 16:55:50 | BlueChip | GPL is just another form of censorship |
| 16:55:50 | | Quit lImbus (Remote closed the connection) |
| 16:55:53 | Zagor | the GPL is designed to ensure the code, and all modifications, remain available to the users forever. |
| 16:55:53 | Bagder | BlueChip: that could make you liable for damages in some countries, and that's why people tend to include a disclaimer as well |
| 16:56:04 | | Join lImbus [0] (~manuel@kernel.cycos.net) |
| 16:56:30 | Bagder | ... as the MIT/X license basicly say |
| 16:56:46 | Zagor | if that is contrary to your goals, i supposed you may feel censored by it... |
| 16:57:06 | BlueChip | it will contrary to someones goal, so it has to be :) |
| 16:57:26 | Zagor | yes, but those people didn't write the code. :) |
| 16:58:02 | BlueChip | no those imposing censorship normally wrote the code |
| 16:58:19 | Bagder | why is GPL censorship in this case? |
| 16:58:32 | Zagor | censorship is in "you may not hide the source"? |
| 16:58:37 | Zagor | s/is/as/ |
| 16:58:55 | Zagor | sounds a bit backwards to me :) |
| 16:59:09 | BlueChip | EXAMPLE: My choice to delay the release of my code until it is stable and useable, is under attack by a person waving the "gpl" flag |
| 16:59:26 | Bagder | and that is censorship? |
| 16:59:43 | Bagder | I need to get a better vocabulary, my says the reversed thing |
| 16:59:46 | BlueChip | it stops me from living my life the way I feel is most beneficial to me and those I care about, so yes |
| 16:59:48 | Zagor | but you already distribute it! |
| 17:00 |
| 17:00:02 | Zagor | everything except the source code |
| 17:00:06 | Bagder | BlueChip: so then don't distribute it, no one forces you to |
| 17:00:12 | BlueChip | my code for klondike, technically yes, but nobody wants it anyway |
| 17:00:14 | Zagor | it can't be *that* unstable then, can it? |
| 17:00:34 | Zagor | so post a huge warning about it |
| 17:00:51 | Zagor | it's not like adhering to the gpl is a lot of work |
| 17:01:00 | Hes | That's not censorship. It's your choise whether you distribute your code. If you don't distribute it because you dislike it, that's healthy self-censorship 8-) |
| 17:01:08 | BlueChip | few things in life are about how much work is involved |
| 17:01:25 | BlueChip | LOL - touché |
| 17:01:49 | BlueChip | i gotta get a drink... |
| 17:01:50 | Bagder | :-) |
| 17:04:12 | Bagder | these objections are about as old as the GPL is |
| 17:05:13 | Hes | yes, very deeply discussed elsewhere. It's good we've got a lot of good licences that we don't have to write our own any more (just need to read a few, which is much easier). |
| 17:05:39 | BlueChip | too right, no point in making something up when a winning argument already exsits - there's a reason they've been around for years ;) |
| 17:05:40 | Bagder | amen |
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| 17:21:20 | | Part Bagder |
| 17:25:00 | mattzz | gotty leave, see you later |
| 17:25:16 | mattzz | gotta...go |
| 17:25:18 | | Quit mattzz ("CGI:IRC 0.5.4 (2004/01/29)") |
| 17:43:31 | BlueChip | elinenbe: where is the mp3cut plugin to be found? |
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| 17:46:44 | Zagor | i'm off for today. see you guys. |
| 17:46:48 | | Quit Zagor ("Client Exiting") |
| 17:46:53 | BlueChip | l8rz dude, peace |
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| 18:59:32 | mattzz | re hi |
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| 19:00:45 | BlueChip | hi |
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| 19:43:33 | Brian1 | Hi all |
| 19:46:12 | mattzz | hi |
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| 21:14:50 | mattzz | Dammit, my batteries are emtpy and I cant get rockbox into charge mode again. Any ideas? |
| 21:17:14 | amiconn | mattzz: Perhaps charge them externally? |
| 21:18:20 | mattzz | amiconn: I have no charger |
| 21:19:05 | mattzz | Maybe I can find an old NiCd charger, dont know if thats a good idea.... |
| 21:20:03 | amiconn | mattzz: You could charge even with an old NiCd charger, IF you charge only a short time (barely enough to get rockbox running again) |
| 21:20:05 | lImbus | mattzz: have you got other batteries ? |
| 21:20:28 | mattzz | I could use the ones from my siemens gigaset ;-) |
| 21:20:56 | mattzz | so charging 2 by 2 should do the trick |
| 21:20:58 | lImbus | you can change 2 batteries. that should be enough to get where you want to |
| 21:21:34 | lImbus | yup |
| 21:21:34 | mattzz | argh. |
| 21:21:58 | amiconn | lImbus, mattzz: _Never_ put different battery cells in series, especially not rechargeable ones |
| 21:22:11 | lImbus | aha ? |
| 21:22:26 | mattzz | maybe I should just plug the other end of the charger into the power outlet.... |
| 21:22:40 | * | mattzz is sooooo stupid |
| 21:22:46 | amiconn | Ooops ;-) |
| 21:22:48 | lImbus | mhmm, that sounds good. |
| 21:23:23 | lImbus | amiconn: why not mix batteries for a short time ? |
| 21:24:00 | * | mattzz will doublecheck both ends of the charger next time. |
| 21:24:09 | amiconn | lImbus: For a short time this may be ok, but remember that mattzz wanted to get rockbox starting in order to charge them. |
| 21:24:27 | amiconn | This is definitely not a good idea with different cells in series. |
| 21:25:54 | amiconn | The less rated and/or more charged cells may get overcharged and damaged as the charger may not detect that they are fully charged |
| 21:26:28 | lImbus | mhm. aha. good to now. sounds logical at least. |
| 21:28:45 | amiconn | The same thing may happen while discharging: The less rated and/or more discharged cells become empty earlier, and may get damaged by reverse polarization (?) |
| 21:36:16 | lImbus | before I throw that idea away: if mattzz had the same batteries in his gigaset, he could try it ? |
| 21:37:16 | amiconn | I wouldn't even do that, since the charge state (?) may be different. |
| 21:37:57 | amiconn | What I would've done in this case: Put the first 2 batteries into the gigaset, charge them fully |
| 21:38:20 | amiconn | (2) Put the second two into the gigaset, charge them fully |
| 21:38:29 | lImbus | yeah, of course |
| 21:38:48 | lImbus | even if NiCd and NiMH mixed ? |
| 21:39:32 | amiconn | They wouldn't be mixed in this case, since the Gigaset runs from 2 AA NiCd/NiMH cells (I happen to own one too) |
| 21:39:55 | lImbus | I mean charger type mixed to battery type |
| 21:40:56 | amiconn | (1) The gigaset charger can charge both types, since a NiMH charger can _always_ be used as a NiCd charger |
| 21:41:11 | lImbus | aha |
| 21:41:22 | lImbus | mhmm. so no way to charge one single battery in a proper manner ? every charger I know only charges in pairs. aren't there a lot of devices having only ONE battery ? |
| 21:42:21 | amiconn | (but not vice versa: The basic charging sequences of NiCd and NiMH cells are the same, but the NiMH variety is more sensitive) |
| 21:43:06 | amiconn | lImbus: There is a way to charge single cells properly - buy a decent charger. Mine does charge every cell separately |
| 21:44:44 | amiconn | I would never use these cheap charge-in-pairs chargers, since the money saved on that charger would be over-compensated later by the early need of new cells |
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| 21:49:14 | amiconn | lImbus: Btw, I don't have any device that runs from a single battery (except some wall/alarm clocks, but these aren't usually run from rechargeables) |
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| 23:05:49 | Zagor | hi guys |
| 23:06:12 | Bagder | evening |
| 23:06:29 | Bagder | aint adsl fine? ;-) |
| 23:06:50 | scott666_ | hey Zagor and Bagder |
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| 23:07:07 | Zagor | Bagder: hehe |
| 23:07:47 | * | Bagder reads the latest tanenbaun rebuttal |
| 23:08:07 | scott666 | the rebuttal to the rebutal to the rebuttal? |
| 23:08:14 | Bagder | yes |
| 23:13:58 | lImbus | amiconn anyway: tnx for that enlightenment, i was somehow afk :-/ |
| 23:16:04 | lImbus | ok guys, if off for today. am gettin hungry :-) |
| 23:16:14 | Bagder | enjoy your food! |
| 23:16:26 | lImbus | s/if/i'm |
| 23:16:34 | lImbus | certainly I will. mcdonalds |
| 23:16:50 | lImbus | but thanks anyway ;-) |
| 23:16:57 | | Quit lImbus () |
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icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).