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#rockbox log for 2004-06-18

00:02:52 Join amiconn [0] (
00:03:18***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:08:16 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
01:00:10 Quit Nibbler (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
02:03:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:06:03 Join Guest1 [0] (
02:06:15Guest1Hi everybody, I need help
02:06:21Guest1is there someone here ?
02:17:34 Quit Guest1 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:36:49 Join Nibbler [0] (
02:42:29 Quit AciD` ("'%20radi)
02:43:47 Join mecraw_ [0] (~mecraw@
03:51:08 Quit mecraw_ ("Trillian (")
03:51:08 Quit Nibbler (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
03:53:53 Part amiconn
04:03:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:25:02 Join Guest1 [0] (
04:25:37Guest1Does anyone know how to clear directory buffer...
04:26:08Guest1my jukebox wont allow me to create any directories
04:30:42hardeepGuest1: what happens when you try to create a directory?
04:44:21Guest1It creates the directory and shows in windows file explorer
04:44:30Guest1but not in the archos display
04:44:35Guest1it does not appear
04:45:54hardeepGuest1: do you see any errors on rockbox? such as dir buffer full?
04:46:22Guest1Yes: it says that exact message upon startup
04:46:29elinenbeGuest1: make sure you do a "safe remove" of the archos after you create the directory too... right click the "hardware" icon in the system tray and safe remove the jukebox
04:46:46elinenbeGuest1: increase the dir buffer in rockbox settings, and then reboot
04:47:48Guest1elinenbe: how can i get to these settings?
04:49:39hardeepMenu->General Settings->System->Limits->Max files in dir browser
04:51:00hardeepsee also:
04:51:44 Quit hardeep ("[BX] Elvis has left the building")
04:52:29Guest1Thanks a lot!
04:52:32Guest1it works now
04:52:40 Quit Guest1 ("Leaving")
05:11:50 Quit elinenbe (" The IRC Client of the Gods! -> <- HydraIRC")
05:14:47 Join Nibbler [0] (
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06:03:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:12:17 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (
06:29:27 Join BlueChip [0] (
06:31:37 Join LinusN [200] (
06:33:06BlueChipLinusN: early start
06:33:26BlueChipJUST finished getting the new devkit going :)
06:33:36LinusNalready? :-)
06:33:46BlueChip :)
06:33:56BlueChipthanks for all your help
06:34:11BlueChipgotta find a way to report that site to cygwin
06:34:12LinusNyou're welcome
06:34:58BlueChipnow to try cvs :)
06:36:02LinusNwant me to walk you through it?
06:36:42BlueChipThat'd be great if you have the time - I will need to copy the files over as I go, so I may be a little slow at this end
06:37:06[IDC]Dragon'morning guys
06:37:18BlueChipmornin' [IDC]Dragon
06:37:49LinusNBlueChip: whenever you're ready
06:38:07BlueChipawaiting your words of wisdom... :)
06:38:16[IDC]DragonLinusN: I have the new settings stuff coded now, saves >7KB
06:40:04LinusNcan i review the patch?
06:40:16[IDC]DragonI'd love to
06:40:16LinusNBlueChip: have you installed cvs?
06:40:32BlueChipi can type cvs without errors now
06:40:43BlueChipnot sure if prams will require more files though
06:40:46LinusNwow! three letter without errors! :-)
06:40:55BlueChipthree files required ;)
06:41:35BlueChipi tend to introduce bugs around 5 or 6 characters, so I tend to play it on the safe side
06:41:38*LinusN cut his index finger yesterday, so his typing is lousy :-)
06:41:49*[IDC]Dragon is emailing the new code to LinusN
06:42:06LinusNthe index finger is also my typing finger :-)
06:42:19BlueChiplol the singular
06:42:49BlueChipwill I need to create a .cvspass file
06:42:54[IDC]Dragonhow do you shift then?
06:42:55LinusNwell, do you know the basic concepts behind cvs? have you worked with other version control systems?
06:43:21BlueChipsadly the thing I used at my last company was a weird in-house thing
06:43:35[IDC]DragonLinusN: code is on the way
06:43:52BlueChip...knocked up one lunchtime - judging by the interface
06:44:03LinusN[IDC]Dragon: gr8
06:44:39LinusNok, BlueChip, the cvs server keeps a Repository, where all the files reside
06:45:07LinusNthey are divided into groups, called Modules
06:45:24BlueChipI read about those on the rockbox page
06:45:32LinusNin Rockbox, "apps" is one module, "firmware" is one etc
06:46:05LinusNwe have also grouped several modules together in larger, virtual modules
06:46:12[IDC]Dragonyou guys go ahead, I'll check back in a few minutes then (would like to discuss a few things about the settings with Linus)
06:46:13LinusNrockbox, rockbox-all etc
06:46:25BlueChipi presume these files are progrssive diff files (for lack of the correct term)
06:47:14LinusNwhen you check out a module, all files are copied to your file system, along with some CVS special stuff, in a dir called CVS
06:47:50BlueChipwill this update existing files, or replace them?
06:48:08LinusNone of the key points is: everything in CVS is about diffs
06:48:38LinusNlet's get some hands-on experience
06:49:14*BlueChip is waiting in /home/rockbox
06:49:31LinusNwhat is in /home/rockbox ?
06:49:48BlueChipa single tarball ...and a single dir of that tarball with a patch applied
06:49:58LinusN"rockbox" is your cygwin user?
06:50:08BlueChipsorry, yes
06:50:17BlueChip(there is also the patch file in that dir)
06:50:32LinusNok let's start with checking out the "rockbox" module
06:50:54LinusNthat will create a directory with the same name as the module, in this case "rockbox"
06:51:17BlueChipwhere is it standard to keep this directory?
06:51:26BlueChip(on my machine)
06:51:31LinusNcvs co rockbox
06:51:53LinusNit's ok to have it anywhere, i have it in my home dir
06:54:06BlueChipthe dir name will always be the same as the package yes?
06:55:33LinusNopen apps/main.c in your favourite editor
06:56:22LinusNremove the sleep(HZ/2) in init()
06:56:42LinusNand save the file
06:57:11LinusNok, now cd to rockbox
06:57:38LinusNand do "cvs diff -u apps/main.c"
06:58:19BlueChipwhoops - my editor has trimmed all the trailing spaces
06:58:32LinusNnaugthy editor
06:58:54BlueChipthey'll add "ignore trailing whitespace" to diff one day
06:59:13BlueChipshould I redo the edit, or continue with a big diff
06:59:53LinusNlet's continue
07:00:20BlueChipok... I presume it is easy to replace that file from cvs
07:00:35LinusNlet's do that
07:00:42LinusNdelete the file
07:00:58LinusNcvs up -dP
07:01:08BlueChipfrom which dir?
07:01:11LinusN"up" is short for "update"
07:01:32LinusNas long as you are above or in the apps dir, you're fine
07:01:49LinusNas long as you are in the repository, that is
07:02:23BlueChipgreat, although I can now see a complaint about "missing .cvspass"
07:02:53LinusNtry this: "touch ~/.cvspass"
07:03:50BlueChipgreat - complaint gone :)
07:04:13LinusN("touch" creates an empty file)
07:04:40BlueChip(yes, i noticed, clever, much cleaner than "copy con")
07:04:41LinusN(or updates the modified date if the file exists)
07:05:37LinusNok, did you notice the "U" before the file name in the cvs output?
07:06:40BlueChipsorry, lost it off the screen now :(
07:06:58LinusNU == "Updated"
07:07:17LinusNok, edit the file again
07:07:31BlueChipRight. I must say the output seemed quite clear that it had noticed the missing main.c and replaced it
07:07:42BlueChipfile edited
07:07:51LinusNdo the update again
07:08:08BlueChipthe update, not the diff
07:08:32BlueChip"M" this time
07:08:34LinusNnotice the "M" in front of the file name
07:08:40LinusNM = Merged
07:08:47LinusNhere's the beauty of cvs
07:09:25LinusNthe update procedure merges your files with the repository
07:09:44LinusNor "patches" if you like
07:10:06LinusNyour changes are always intact
07:10:31BlueChipbloody impressive - so how did it know not to add that sleep() back in again?
07:10:56LinusNit sees that your file differs from the repo
07:11:06LinusNand your edits have precedence
07:12:04LinusNwhat it does is that it creates a patch from the differences between the file version you have edited and the file version on the server, and then it applies that patch on your file
07:12:54LinusNnow if someone has changed exactly that line and committed that change, there will be a conflict
07:13:45BlueChipright, so i will get a diff file to apply by hand?
07:14:19LinusNthe update procedure puts markers in the file, showing the conflict
07:14:32LinusNand you will have a "C" in front of the file name
07:14:42BlueChipvey nice
07:14:50LinusNlet's leave the conflict for now
07:15:48LinusNthis is basically it, the "update" procedure patches your repository with the latest changes on the server
07:16:20LinusNso you can happily edit your files, and do "update" every once in a while to keep up with the latest changes
07:16:33BlueChipi think I am confused only on one point, and that is technical rather than of useage
07:17:07BlueChiphow does it know that my file is lacking a line and not be confused with the cvs has a line added - i get the feeling there could be a timing issue at hand?
07:18:43LinusNit keeps track of which version of the file that is in your repository
07:18:56BlueChipaha! of course ...the CVS directory ;)
07:18:59LinusNin this case, 1.86
07:19:41BlueChipGreat, I presume conflicts are marked with #error or similar?
07:19:56LinusNit's something like:
07:20:02LinusN<<<< 1.86
07:20:04LinusNbla bla
07:20:22LinusN−−−− main.c
07:20:24LinusNblo blo
07:20:49LinusNand you have to manually select which part you want
07:21:00BlueChipcool - so it will throw nice compiler errors if I miss it during the update :)
07:21:24LinusNlet's edit another file, tree.c
07:21:55LinusNremove the ".mpa" file type on line 76
07:22:18LinusNgo to the "rockbox" dir
07:22:35LinusNlet's create a patch
07:22:55LinusNcvs diff -u
07:23:04 Quit silencer (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
07:23:07BlueChip(ahhh, this is the stuff - a standardised patch)
07:23:08LinusNyou will see both changes
07:23:09 Join silencer [0] (
07:23:38LinusNcvs diff -u > mypatch.patch
07:24:41BlueChipunusual looking patch - that will apply okay with patch.exe ?
07:25:01BlueChipdifferent from those I have made in the past
07:25:10BlueChip....goes hunting
07:25:48LinusNthere are a few different formats for patches
07:25:58LinusNthis is the "Unified" patch format
07:26:16BlueChipthis one has all the files underlined with "="s which I think is the most notable change
07:26:35BlueChipalso has "? filename.pat" as the first line
07:27:04LinusNit actually ignores lots of that info
07:27:24BlueChipyes, I guess so, it just makes the file look quite different ...more readable
07:27:39LinusNok, remove main.c and tree.c and update again
07:28:36BlueChipU main & tree .... ?patch.pat :)
07:29:09 Join adi|home [0] (~adi|
07:29:46BlueChipWell, that all seems pretty straight forward :) that it, or are there more surprises in store?
07:30:57LinusNpatch -p0 < mypatch.patch
07:31:25LinusNand you're back!
07:31:34BlueChipblinding ! :)
07:32:07LinusNas you may have noticed, the uisimulator module is not part of the "rockbox" module
07:32:46LinusNso, in the "rockbox" dir, do "cvs co uisimulator"
07:33:56LinusNthat's basically iy
07:34:30BlueChipcool - Linus, I owe you a large beer for that help - I have wasted hours trying to suss that in the past ....I will play for a bit and write up our conversation as an edited transcript
07:34:50LinusNglad to help
07:34:59BlueChipThank You
07:35:15LinusN[IDC]Dragon: you're next :-)
07:35:27*BlueChip goes off to play with his new knowledge
07:35:35 Join Nibbler [0] (
07:35:48[IDC]Dragongot the code?
07:36:03LinusNBlueChip: feel free to add a CVSForDummies in the Wiki
07:36:23LinusN[IDC]Dragon: yes
07:37:15[IDC]Dragondo you want to comment on it, or should I jump in some details?
07:37:15LinusNit looks much like i had in mind myself
07:37:33[IDC]Dragonah, good sync
07:38:31[IDC]Dragonthe focal point is the two tables, rtc_bits and hd_bits
07:38:41LinusNit will perhaps raise the bar a little for those who want to add options
07:39:02LinusNbut it was quite intimidating in the earlier version too :-)
07:39:04[IDC]Dragonlower, you mean?
07:39:17LinusNboth, actually
07:39:41LinusNthis way will help to remove the "manual" bit fiddling
07:40:08[IDC]Dragonhelp to? It removed it.
07:40:10 Join midk [0] (
07:40:28[IDC]Dragonyou only need to decide how many bits you need
07:41:01[IDC]Dragonsome shortcomings:
07:41:21[IDC]Dragonthe .cfg files are looking very plain now.
07:41:42[IDC]Dragonno min/max checking of a value
07:41:54[IDC]Dragondo you prefer them plain?
07:42:12[IDC]Dragonthe old ones had some comments as block captions
07:42:24LinusNah, yes
07:42:50[IDC]Dragonthe order in the .cfg file is now always the same as in the tables
07:43:46LinusNone nasty shortcoming is that the setting block becomes incompatible for every tiny change
07:44:06[IDC]Dragonnot for adding stuff
07:44:23[IDC]Dragonthe first entry sayshow many bits are valid in the block
07:44:43LinusNi don't see that as much of a problem anyway
07:44:57[IDC]Dragonis only loads values up to there, leaving the others at default
07:45:17[IDC]Dragonnext time the block is saved, those will be valid, too
07:45:41LinusNhmm, did i really call it "rec_base_directory", how silly of me
07:45:59LinusNi should lose the underscores
07:47:02[IDC]DragonI think that's not used any more
07:47:30LinusNwhat isn't?
07:47:51[IDC]Dragonoops, sorry, other modules use it as external
07:49:14*[IDC]Dragon tries to understand
07:49:57LinusNi mean the string in the settings file
07:50:03[IDC]Dragonthere may be a problem
07:50:10LinusNme == stupid
07:50:18LinusNignore me
07:51:12[IDC]Dragonglobal_settings.rec_directory is a bool flag
07:52:08LinusNwell, it's a 1-bit index, actually
07:52:51[IDC]Dragonrec_base_directory should be moved to recording.c
07:53:19[IDC]Dragonsettings.c does not use it (any more)
07:53:36LinusNit never has
07:54:21LinusNi chose to put it in settings.c because more than one file uses it, and it is a setting
07:54:35LinusNi could just as well put it in recording.c
07:55:27[IDC]Dragonwhat I really wanted to check with you:
07:55:39[IDC]DragonI do no min/max clipping as of now
07:56:14LinusNthat shouldn't matter
07:56:17[IDC]Dragonbecause that would add 2 32 bit members (worst-case size) to the struct
07:56:54LinusNwhat's the deal with the SIGN() macro?
07:57:06[IDC]Dragonit marks a value as signed
07:57:27[IDC]Dragonso after bit extraction, it will get sign-extended
07:58:05[IDC]Dragonif we e.g. have a range of +/- 15, this member needs 5 bits
07:58:26[IDC]Dragonextracting it will result in 0...31, a positive int
07:58:46LinusNi would rather write it as (SIGNED | 32, S_O(.....
07:58:58[IDC]Dragonif we know it's signed, we can check the "MSB" and extend
07:58:59LinusN#define SIGNED 0x80
07:59:18 Quit midk (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
07:59:24LinusNfeels more straight-forward
07:59:59LinusNi'm not too happy about the S_O macro either, but i can see that it saves space and reduces the possibility of errors
08:00:43 Join midk [0] (
08:00:52LinusNi think we can (and should) remove the DEFAULT_xxx macros
08:01:34LinusNthey are only used once, as far as i can see
08:01:56[IDC]Dragonah, they are in settings.h, I see
08:02:07[IDC]Dragonthen it doesn't make much sense
08:02:09LinusNand only a few of the settings have DEFAILT_ macros
08:02:19LinusNit just complicates things
08:02:27[IDC]DragonI thought they are with the respective modules
08:02:28LinusNlet's clean that up while we're at it
08:03:13[IDC]Dragona nice cleanup would be to remove val2phys/phys2val ...
08:03:19LinusNlet me do that
08:03:23[IDC]Dragonbut let's do this first
08:03:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:03:47[IDC]Dragonthe code has some quirks to compensate
08:03:55[IDC]Dragonwhich can be removed then.
08:04:27[IDC]Dragonnext subtopic:
08:04:47[IDC]DragonI was thinking about inserting zero bitlength members
08:05:07[IDC]Dragon(some kind of escape value)
08:05:25[IDC]Dragonto be treated as a comment line for .cfg writing
08:05:51LinusNnot a bad idea
08:06:45[IDC]Dragonbut we can only group as much as it's grouped in the array
08:07:19[IDC]Dragonif you e.g. add an LCD setting later at the end, it will be at the end
08:07:30LinusNone tiny thing, why do you include "rtc.h" in the middle of the file?
08:07:30[IDC]Dragonnot in "its" group
08:07:41[IDC]Dragonnot my code...
08:07:57LinusNoh, then move it up where it belongs
08:08:22[IDC]Dragonmaybe copy/paste error
08:08:25LinusNon second thought, let's skip the comments in the settings file
08:09:40[IDC]Dragontoo cumbersome?
08:10:50LinusNyes, and the grouping is difficult
08:11:39[IDC]Dragonwhich brings me to the next subtopic:
08:11:48[IDC]DragonI'd welcome some thoughts for the RTC/HD choice
08:12:24[IDC]DragonI tried to maintain groups, so in doubt there's too much in the RTC
08:12:39[IDC]Dragonmy general philosophy would be to put values in the RTC if:
08:12:56LinusNi'd say that almost everything but the resumt info can go to disk
08:12:56[IDC]Dragon- they are constantly changing, like the resume index
08:13:19[IDC]Dragon- they are needed/helpful early, before the HD
08:13:49[IDC]Dragon- they are changed often by the user, and he would lose that if not waiting for the next spinup
08:14:08[IDC]Dragon(that's it)
08:14:39LinusNa good philosophy
08:14:55[IDC]Dragonnow help me to review it with that in mind
08:15:13LinusNthat will be the charging, backlight, resume and sound parameters
08:16:07[IDC]Dragonthe RTC is almost full, so I hay move some more to the HD
08:16:09LinusNscroll stuff -> disk
08:16:35BlueChipwill you allow for full audio-prams?
08:17:18LinusNthink so
08:17:56LinusNtalk stuff -> disk
08:18:30LinusN"show icons" -> disk
08:18:57LinusN"fade on stop" -> disk
08:19:38LinusN"caption backlight" -> disk
08:19:53*[IDC]Dragon is resorting...
08:20:34LinusN"max file in..." could be on disk, but having them in rtc save a lot of trouble
08:21:59LinusN"play selected" -> disk
08:22:40LinusN"ff_rewind..." -> disk imho
08:28:14[IDC]Dragondisk poweroff/spindown?
08:33:10LinusN-> disk?
08:33:19[IDC]Dragonso I thought
08:40:58BlueChipLinusN: at 07.01.49, you said "as long as you are in the repository, that is" by "repository" did you mean the "rockbox" directory ...(to ease confusion, I have changed my login to "guest")
08:41:45LinusNBlueChip: yes
08:42:41BlueChipso would I be correct in saying that the uisimulator directory will not update from the rockbox directory
08:42:57BlueChip*uisimulator files
08:44:40LinusNthey should, try it
08:45:23BlueChipI will when I get the files back on my system - working the transcipt as I edit it
08:45:51[IDC]DragonLinusN: I should reserve some more bits for the runtime values
08:46:44[IDC]Dragon16 bits is only good for ~9 hours
08:47:22[IDC]Dragonwhat's topruntime good for anyway? with ac connected, it can be arbitrary long?
08:50:31LinusNno idea
08:50:59[IDC]Dragonhow many bits should I give it?
08:51:35LinusNwhy not scale it instead?
08:52:15[IDC]Dragonthen it needs to be scaled in global_settings as well
08:53:24LinusNi think 18 bits would be ok
08:53:52[IDC]Dragonvery well
09:01:05[IDC]DragonI don't use #ifdef HAVE_LCD_CHARCELLS
09:01:05[IDC]Dragon {3, S_O(jump_scroll), 0, "jump scroll", NULL }, /* 0...5 */
09:01:05[IDC]Dragon {8, S_O(jump_scroll_delay), 50 "jump scroll delay", NULL }, /* 0...250 */
09:01:05DBUGSent KICK [IDC]Dragon to server
09:01:06Kick(#rockbox [IDC]Dragon :No flooding!) by logbot!~bjst@
09:01:24midkwho opped logbot!
09:02:20 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (
09:02:33[IDC]Dragonoops, wrong clipboard content
09:03:03[IDC]DragonI don't use set_sound() any more, is that OK?
09:03:30[IDC]Dragonwill settings_apply() do the job instead?
09:04:13LinusNset_sound is internal to settings.c, so remove it if it's obsolete
09:04:18[IDC]DragonI guess it's main purpose was the phys2val conversion, which I do
09:05:19 Join Zagor [242] (
09:08:03[IDC]DragonHi Björn!
09:28:37[IDC]Dragonis 18 bits enough for your runtime value? ;-)
09:30:17Zagoryeah :)
09:34:21 Nick midk is now known as midk|here|sleep (
09:34:29 Nick midk|here|sleep is now known as midk|sleep (
09:48:23 Join Bagder [241] (
09:49:03midk|sleephi bagder
09:49:10Bagderhey ho
09:58:15Bagderopenjukebox is truly an irony
09:58:52dwihnowhich what?
09:59:20Bagder"open" source for xclef
09:59:24Bagderjust not open
09:59:28Bagderand no source ;-)
09:59:36midk|sleep*waits for page to load
09:59:38Zagori'm quite tempted by the xclef hd-800
09:59:44LinusNme too
09:59:58Bagderso do it
10:00:02Bagderand we'll hack it
10:00:15Bagderany nice swedish resellers?
10:00:20Zagorhaven't found any yet
10:00:22LinusNmaybe the donations can come to use...
10:00:34midk|sleep*donates a few spare coins
10:00:44Zagori'll ask jon for help
10:00:47midk|sleepi have some old credits engine code if you would like it
10:01:39LinusNi hope the donations can finance my ulcer medicine as well :-)
10:02:07midk|sleephave a seperate donations page for linux
10:03:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:03:46LinusNthe LinusAID project
10:04:03Zagorwe sing for your ulcer?
10:04:14*Bagder starts singing
10:04:23*midk|sleep joins in, ruining the whole thing
10:04:41LinusN"he is da maaaaan, he has an ulcer...."
10:04:54midk|sleepthat doesn't rhyme well
10:04:58midk|sleepnice try.
10:05:25LinusN"he is the one who makes a better jukebox, so let's start hacking"
10:05:48Zagor"we are the geek, we are the nerd-heads..."
10:05:51*midk|sleep suspects that LinusN will soon have a job as a rapper
10:06:08midk|sleep"unknown improvements and fixes"
10:06:12LinusNwell, Band Aid didn't rap...
10:06:39midk|sleepzagor and linusn will form a small group and become big time stars
10:06:47BlueChiplinus, email winging it's way to you
10:06:58LinusNmidk|sleep: we already have :-)
10:07:16midk|sleepi mean, big time rapper stars.
10:07:28LinusNyeah, rapping is really our thing
10:07:41LinusNBlueChip: saw it, thx
10:07:43midk|sleepi can tell by your "rhymes" i just read
10:07:50midk|sleepyou're a natural
10:07:57Bagder"Best Price - 18 Jun 2004: £219.00"
10:08:10Bagderhd800 that is
10:08:19LinusNexcept that it was supposed to be sung to the melody of "We are the world" :-)
10:08:20midk|sleepthis opensource thing looks very stupid...
10:08:46midk|sleepi knew that!
10:10:04Bagder"the remote control ... generates sound interference every time its little LCD display changes"
10:10:16Bagderhere we go ;-)
10:10:26midk|sleepbagder will get right on it
10:11:15Bagdervery few buttons
10:11:28midk|sleep*jumps on it so it shatters into multiple pieces
10:11:31Bagderpong will be very hard!
10:11:50ZagorBagder: there are 4 keys and a jogdial on the side
10:11:58Bagderah, on the side
10:12:13Bagderbiggish lcd
10:12:27Bagder160 x 105
10:12:32midk|sleepdoesnt look that bad
10:12:34Bagder105 is truly odd
10:12:36midk|sleepbut it still sucks
10:12:36Zagorand the buttons can light up individually in 3 different shades (wooo)
10:12:42midk|sleepYAY COLORED BUTTONS
10:12:52midk|sleep*waits for zagor to hack it to combine colors to create lots of new colors
10:13:24Bagderit can only record at max 128kbps
10:13:34midk|sleepthere's an update that does up to 320
10:14:36midk|sleepit does look a bit nice...
10:14:52midk|sleepgray lcd?
10:14:55*midk|sleep is almost sold
10:15:41midk|sleepit's my new clock mode
10:15:45midk|sleeptye letters.
10:19:05dwihnoBagder: looks liek a nice thingy
10:19:41[IDC]Dragonwhy not the Gmini 220?
10:20:02Zagor1. it's an archos
10:20:19Bagderhear hear
10:20:20Zagor2. it's too proprietary. the xclefs use standard motorola chips with full docs available
10:20:29[IDC]Dragonc'mon, they have haptically improved alot
10:20:45Bagderbut we're done sponsoring them
10:20:47Zagorwe've already inflated their sales way more than they earned
10:21:02LinusNagreed 100%
10:21:14[IDC]Dragonthe new model will have an ARM CPU
10:21:14Bagderits time to sponsor someone else! ;-)
10:21:18dwihnoZagor: xclef official url?
10:21:25Zagorsee twiki
10:21:42dwihnothanks bag.
10:21:55midk|sleepbag ahaha
10:22:01Bagderseems to be a cheap place to buy it
10:22:14[IDC]Dragonthe Gmini 220 has 160*160 display and a CF slot
10:22:21midk|sleepand it does official grayscale
10:22:30midk|sleepor does it
10:22:43midk|sleep*spots archos stealing idc's blit code
10:23:17[IDC]Dragonthey like it, I know of that
10:23:33midk|sleepthey do?
10:23:49*Bagder wakes midk up
10:24:08midk|sleepwhuh! not for eating?
10:24:08dwihnoBagder: yumyum.
10:26:57[IDC]Dragoncu guys later
10:27:03dwihnoBagder: the only thing I am a bit scared of is the battery issue... I mean, sooner or later, the batteries will wear out. Then what?
10:27:07BagderI agree
10:27:08midk|sleepbye idc
10:27:10 Quit [IDC]Dragon ()
10:27:20midk|sleepthen it will be obsolete anyways
10:27:33midk|sleephmm, did you ever consider the rio karma?
10:32:11Zagoryes, but they use the portalplayer chip (same as in ipod) which is top top top secret
10:33:32dwihnoZagor: do you think there would be heta potatisar if you were to tame the beast?
10:33:36BagderI notice ipod can't play gapless
10:34:09dwihnoAre there any hard disk players that use "regular" batteries, except the earlier archos models?
10:34:17ZagorBagder: correct. they add nearly a full second of silence between tracks!
10:34:28Zagordwihno: none that I know
10:34:40Bagder" I hadn't seen a single complaint about the iPod (these days I know where to look :-/). All the advertising and articles made it sound fantastic. It was an expensive device. It was made specifically to play music. I was sure they would have made it able to play albums properly −− it seems a basic requirement of a music player to me −− and so I bought one. How wrong I was."
10:35:25dwihnoZagor: A full second? Man, that sucks! :/
10:35:28Zagordon't you love marketing?
10:35:38Zagornot to mention zombie customers
10:36:00dwihnoLuckily there are better shepherds.
10:36:23BlueChipwhat about the dude who got linux running on his i-pod ?
10:36:57LinusNhe managed to run linux on the cpu, but the decoder dsp is out of reach
10:37:06Zagorlast I heard they were working hard on playing mp3 in real-time
10:37:56BlueChipaha - thought it was a track-gap dig ;)
10:38:42ZagorBlueChip: no, they were having problems with cpu not being strong enough to decode mp3 (since they can't use the dsp)
10:39:14Zagorhaven't checked in a while though
10:39:23LinusN"The Tremor player is running at about 80% real-time."
10:39:26BlueChiplucky they have any access to the audio at all :(
10:39:38LinusN"Intel has a highly optimised library for the ARM processor that includes MP3 decoding support. Their sample player runs quite well however it isn't perfect."
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10:43:37dwihnoIf only the DSP was usable.
10:43:47lImbusHi BlueChip, are you on air ?
10:46:55Zagoris that your current pong score?
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10:53:22Bagderadded NonArchos
10:54:17midk|sleephey, i get to document my clock on the twiki don't i
10:54:34Bagderyou get to document anything you think is missing
11:00:21BagderI think we should drop the numbers of the FAQ questions
11:00:30Bagderthe wiki
11:00:45Zagorthat makes it more difficult to say "read faq xx"
11:01:03Bagderyes, but it makes it easier to provide a URL to a specific Q
11:01:09Bagderthat'll live
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11:01:31Zagortrue. hmm.
11:01:34 Join AciD` [0] (
11:01:38Bagdernumbers change more often than the actual question
11:02:48Bagderjust browse old mails that refers to FAQ entries
11:02:51Bagderthey are never right
11:03:56Zagoron the other hand the auto-generated anchors change if we ever spellfix a headline, for instance
11:04:34Bagderbut a spellfix break one link
11:04:44Bagdernew numbering breaks many
11:06:51*Bagder spots a new plugin
11:06:55midk|sleepooh where
11:07:00Bagderin cvs
11:07:05Bagderjust now
11:07:27midk|sleepdont tell me!
11:08:15midk|sleepi see none...
11:08:42midk|sleepor merged?
11:09:14LinusNi have to go now
11:09:27LinusNif i'm lucky, you can call me Captain in a few hours :-)
11:09:38*Bagder stands straight in preparation
11:09:54BlueChipaye aye cap'n
11:10:23Bagderif I prefer "uber-captain", will that do?
11:11:08LinusNthat'll do
11:11:20midk|sleeplucky at what
11:11:23midk|sleepwhat did i miss
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11:13:21Bagderlinus is going for captain-status
11:13:21 Quit midk|sleep ("yo yo yo cya later YO YO YO wasa wasa!")
11:13:52LinusN"skepparexamen" in swedish
11:14:08Zagorare you still here? :)
11:14:20LinusNnag, nag
11:14:30LinusNcu folx, wish me luck
11:14:38BlueChipBreak a leg dude :)
11:14:52 Part LinusN
11:15:37[IDC]Dragonwhy Captain?
11:16:33[IDC]Dragonwhy luck?
11:16:49BagderLinus is gonna do write a test today, aiming for a "captain license" or whatever the name would be in english
11:16:49[IDC]Dragonsailing exam, aha
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11:19:45amiconnhi all
11:19:52Bagderhi jens
11:35:24amiconnI've already tried my idea for varying backlight brightness via interrupt driven software pwm
11:35:44*BlueChip holds breath
11:36:08amiconnWhile the result looks nice so far, I have once severe problem I don't know how to solve
11:36:55amiconnFor the software pwm to work, I have to call rtc_write() from within an interrupt
11:37:19BlueChipsorry, why is that bad?
11:37:19amiconnrtc_write() in turn uses i2c, which is protected with a mutex
11:38:40amiconnSo if rtc_write() is called from the isr while the mutex is locked, the whole thing locks up because the mutex won't be unlocked while in interrupt context
11:39:07BlueChipi presume the rtc controls the leds?
11:39:36amiconnI have done a proof-of-concept plugin which fades the backlight up/down continuously.
11:40:20amiconnThis ran fine for several hours without playing music
11:44:32amiconnHowever, if you run the plugin in parallel with playing music, it will lock up after some time
11:46:03BlueChipcould you check the mutex before calling?
11:46:31amiconnI'm thinking about that, but what should I do _if_ it is locked?
11:47:23amiconnSimply omitting the backlight switch at that point will lead to visible glitches, and delaying is difficult
11:48:20amiconnBtw: I settled for having 64 steps; the base frequency is 128 Hz, so I have 256 ints/sec
11:50:05BlueChipWOW 64 is MORE than sufficient
11:50:27amiconnToo bad the backlight isn't simply connected to an i/o port (for the recorder, on the player it is)
11:51:06BlueChiphmmm, there has to be a solution
11:51:13amiconnIf it would use a port (tested it with the red led, which is connected to a port), I wouldn't have these problems
11:51:25[IDC]Dragonhi amiconn !
11:51:40amiconnHi Jörg!
11:51:50[IDC]DragonI2C within interrupt is not a good idea, iirc.
11:51:54BlueChipdo we have control over the green led?
11:52:12dwihnoI don't think so
11:52:32amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Why? (except of the mutex problem)
11:52:38[IDC]Dragonno. Only if you power off the box...
11:52:40amiconnBlueChip: No, it is hardwired
11:52:59[IDC]Dragonamiconn: port bit assignment
11:53:42amiconn[IDC]Dragon: As is said, it works perfectly as long as you don't play music in parallel
11:54:04amiconnThis is because the mas control then also uses i2c
11:54:11[IDC]Dragonor use the display
11:55:51[IDC]DragonI2C uses bits from both upper and lower half
11:57:37*amiconn thinks he is not playing by the port guardian rules then
11:58:36amiconnToo bad, a "light organ" plugin would be nice, however, this makes it (almost?) impossible on recorders because of the backlight control
11:58:48[IDC]Dragonwhen I did my software TX for the alpine plugin, I had to change all code using PBH to atomic and/or instructions
11:59:15amiconnOn players, it is also impossible due to the lack of sound level info from the mas
11:59:47[IDC]Dragonyou can do a hardware mod to have software brighness control
12:00:24[IDC]Dragonby changing the frequency which the RTC uses to drive the pin
12:00:56amiconnYes, but then the plugin would only be for those geeks who mod their hardware
12:01:12[IDC]Dragonas with all hardware mods, yes
12:02:07amiconnToo bad i2c even uses PBL; making this interrupt-save would require reverting the lcd driver to an ultra-slow version :(
12:02:19amiconn*safe even
12:02:48[IDC]Dragonnot ultra-slow, but the way we had it, with locking interrups per byte
12:03:35***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:04:40amiconnThis would still be considerably slower than it is now, because in addition to the int en-/disabling the precalculation has to be done for every byte then
12:07:45amiconnme too
12:12:07BlueChipmmmmmmm, foood
12:12:12 Nick BlueChip is now known as BC|food (
12:24:48BC|foodanyone know how to get the fonts out of cvs?
12:25:04 Nick BC|food is now known as BC (
12:26:32ZagorBC: cvs co fonts
12:27:29BCyou might like to add that to:
12:27:39BCand maybe rockbox-devel ?
12:29:20BCI transcribed and edited Linus' real-time tutorial this morning - I'm sure that'll help people :)
12:30:30BCI emailed it to linus for proof reading
12:32:00BCwould you like a copy?
12:36:04Zagornah, i'll let him do the work ;)
12:36:19BClol :)
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13:00:19[IDC]Dragonback again
13:00:33amiconnre Jörg
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13:54:14darbsllimwhat's going on with the av300 hacking scene?
13:55:39darbsllimah, cool, thanks =)
13:56:12darbsllimholy crap!
13:56:20darbsllimthey've got a lot since I've last checked!
13:56:41darbsllimlast time I checked they were having problems from Archos trying to 'dissuade' them from going ahead with the project
13:57:23Zagoryeah, we kind of helped them out of that :)
13:58:05darbsllimyeah? Awesome, what did you guys do?
13:58:12darbsllimI keep getting a message saying:
13:58:31darbsllim###### Unregistered copy, evaluation only.
13:58:40 Quit AciD` (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
13:58:43Zagorwe wrote and released our own descrambler, so archos couldn't bitch on avos about that
13:58:44darbsllim###### Please ask webmaster to register it.
13:58:45Bagderdarbsllim: use a proper irc client instead
13:59:43darbsllimsounds good
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14:00:26 Join darbsllim [0] (
14:00:33darbsllimmuch better
14:00:40c0uttaguys, is the currently playing track stored in variable "id3" ?
14:00:51Zagordepends on where you look :)
14:01:40c0uttahmmm. i want to get the path of the currently playing track
14:01:48Zagorfrom where?
14:01:59Zagorare you writing a plugin, or patching the wps?
14:01:59Bagder struct mp3entry *id3 = mpeg_current_track();
14:02:02darbsllimso you guys wrote a descrambler? What's that for, might I ask?
14:02:14c0uttata bagder
14:02:22Zagordarbsllim: archos firmwares are scrambled to prevent us from doing things like this
14:02:31c0uttazagor: using this for context sensitive wps stuff
14:02:49Zagorc0utta: ok. see bagder's note then
14:03:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:04:22darbsllimso you wrote a descrambler so that archos doesn't have to reveal their secrets to us? They don't have to worry about someone using their code or something?
14:05:03BagderArhos never had to do anything
14:05:23Bagderthey do worry anyway though ;-)
14:05:26Zagordarbsllim: they don't have to worry, since using their code would be illegal
14:06:15Zagorbut they were threatening avos over their descrambler for multimedia, that's why I decided to write my own and release it. to call their bluff.
14:08:04dwihnoYay for Z!
14:08:43 Join AciD` [0] (
14:09:07darbsllimoh, hah, awesome man...good goin =P
14:09:18darbsllimtonnes of people signed that petition and they haven't responded yet or what?
14:09:35Zagori guess not. i never expected they would.
14:09:48BagderI would be very surprised if they did
14:12:10darbsllimah wel
14:12:24darbsllimso when do you guys think the avos will be up and running?
14:12:41Zagordepends on what you want. it is up and running already.
14:12:59Zagorbut last I heard, they did not plan to make a better mp3 player firmware
14:13:17Zagortheir plan was to get linux running and thus get a pocket computer of sorts
14:13:33Zagorbut that was a while ago, it may have changed
14:14:21Zagori'd like to use their research to port Rockbox to it, but I don't seem to ever get some spare time :(
14:15:36darbsllimthat would be awesome. The av300 has so much potential
14:15:56darbsllimit's such a beast, could probably make a mouse for it too eh
14:16:25darbsllimand if people were dedicated enough, I bet it could be turned into like a portable internet phone and stuff
14:16:33Zagoryes, but it also has a lot of secrets. the documentation is very hard to get, so programming for it can be troublesome. it is unclear if we could ever make it play movies, for instance
14:18:20darbsllimyeah I guess there's nothing really out there like it
14:18:35darbsllimit must be like trying to learn a new language without help or references
14:18:37darbsllim0th January 2004 dogger
14:18:37darbsllimHave bought a PDA keyboard, and successfuly used it on the av300
14:18:47darbsllimthat's awesome
14:18:56Zagordarbsllim: ...and without ever hearing or reading it
14:21:47darbsllimyeah, like a blind man fumbling in a beautiful flaural greenhouse for a seed
14:22:17darbsllimlet's keep playing the metaphore game
14:22:19darbsllimhaha, jk
14:23:51darbsllimso how long has rockbox been around, like 3 or 4 years hasn't it?
14:25:14Bagderthe name was set in jan 2002
14:25:33Bagderthe efforts started for real in dec 2001
14:26:27BagderMay 3rd 2002: "We have sound."
14:27:47darbsllimthat's awesome guys. I know it probably doesn't mean much coming from a stranger, but I'm glad there's people like you guys to do work like this. I hope the av300 hacking project goes as good as rockbox.
14:28:26Zagorme too
14:29:18Bagdertomorrow there's the 2 year aniversary for sound on the recorder!
14:29:21darbsllimI hope that we can get things like better recording resolution...i'm not a fan of the old mpeg4
14:31:40darbsllimbut also, being able to use it like a computer
14:31:43darbsllimthat's crazy
14:31:52darbsllimso has there been any new advancments in the rockbox os lately?
14:32:03*Bagder giggles
14:32:30Zagorthe file/plugin association was the latest major change
14:32:41Zagornothing really fancy for a while
14:32:55Zagor(it's rather hard to beat [IDC]Dragon's movie player... ;)
14:33:05Bagderand jpeg viewer
14:33:13*[IDC]Dragon giggles
14:33:31BagderI think the grayscale framwork is rather cool too
14:34:26Zagorlib support for plugins is new
14:34:38Zagora real crowd-pleaser
14:34:53darbsllima movie player eh?
14:35:14darbsllimother than that I don't know much about what you guys just said
14:35:28Zagorwe can play movies on the mp3 players, but not on the movie devices ;)
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14:51:32Zagorwhee, xclef firmware is plain-text
14:51:43Zagor"FM->BM Firmware Read OK! & Firmware Upgrade..."
14:53:32Zagor"Powerdown status received from Fm..."
14:54:13Zagor"Ogg init start"
15:02:10amiconnZagor: That's the way it should be
15:02:22Zagormakes me all warm :)
15:02:48Zagornow the only question is: how can it recover from a failed upgrade?
15:03:06[IDC]Dragonuart-boot? ;-)
15:03:33Zagorwell there must be some way, or they are in for very expensive support
15:03:38 Join Nibbler [0] (
15:03:43[IDC]Dragonwell, maybe it doesn't update all
15:04:01Zagorit does. i read the upgrade instructions for this firmware file.
15:04:17Zagoryou just copy it to the disk, in a specific directory. boot up, and it reflashes and reboots.
15:04:36[IDC]Dragonmaybe a bootloader stays, which includes file read this time
15:05:07Zagorwe'll have to ask roland to break un upgrade ;)
15:05:47[IDC]DragonRoland, can you please cut the power while it updates?
15:17:11 Quit morano2 ()
15:25:34ZagorCaptain Linus passed his exam
15:27:19*[IDC]Dragon whistles some sailing tune
15:28:44 Quit AciD` (".L")
15:30:43Zagor"Troubleshooting: Q: The operating time is noticeable shorter than normal. A: Replace the battery with a new one" !!!
15:31:17Zagordoes that mean they sell spare batteries?
15:31:53[IDC]Dragonstill fascinated by the xclef?
15:32:02Zagoryeah, it looks like it could be fun
15:32:37[IDC]DragonBad boy: you haven't finished your AV3x0, but crave for a new toy.
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15:33:28[IDC]Dragonhow does size&weight compare to the Gmini220?
15:33:38Zagori'll check
15:33:49 Part Bagder
15:35:31Zagor"Recording time : 68hours at 128 Kbps" what limit is that? hardly battery life, and definitely not disk space...
15:36:30Zagorgmini220: 67,5 x 78 x 23 mm, 170 gram
15:37:00Zagorxclef hd800: 66.5 x 99.5 x 22 mm
15:37:27Zagorlooking for weight
15:38:33Zagor180 gram
15:38:46[IDC]Dragonaha, thanks
15:38:58Zagorhave you found any hardware info about the gmini220?
15:39:06[IDC]Dragona bit longer, 10gram more
15:39:20[IDC]Dragonlike what?
15:39:32Zagorcpu, dsp etc. photos ideally.
15:39:41Zagoris it the same as the bigger gmini?
15:39:51[IDC]DragonI think so, yes
15:40:28[IDC]Dragonit uses a different kind of 1.8" drive, the "half-brick"
15:40:59[IDC]Dragonlike our 2.5", but cut in half
15:41:31Zagorright, same as rio karma
15:42:13[IDC]Dragonthe xclef seems to use the pcmcia type
15:42:22[IDC]Dragonlike the ipod
15:43:16[IDC]Dragonmaybe it can be upgraded to 40GB with a "spacer ring" for the enclusure ;-)
15:43:43Zagorthere are 60gig disks available already
15:43:53Zagorprobably cost an arm an a leg though :)
15:44:12[IDC]Dragonimpressive, I mean
15:45:13Zagordid you say there's a new arm-based gmini on the way?
15:45:59[IDC]Dragonyes, to tackle DRM
15:46:18[IDC]Dragonthey need more horsepower for that
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15:50:08RV|WRKhello all
15:50:12RV|WRKne1 in ?
15:50:29RV|WRKcan i ask a really daft question ?
15:51:11RV|WRKbearing in mind i dont use linux at all, how do i apply a patch ?
15:51:42Zagorhave you read ?
15:52:14RV|WRKdo i have to patch the sorce code and then compile the patched source
15:52:17Zagorthen you need to ask a more detailed question :)
15:52:35RV|WRK:) thought so
15:52:54RV|WRKeasy in linux bit more involved in win
15:54:22Zagorlike most things :)
15:55:56RV|WRKlol im not going into that argument
15:56:15Zagorchicken ;)
15:57:31RV|WRKi would really like to use linux but it would take me 10 mins longer to do everything as i am a complete noob, personally, i dont need most of the stuff that linux can do so i stick with win
15:58:19RV|WRKdoing this compiling is the 1st time that ive NEEDED linux
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16:03:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:09:48RV|WRKi assume the source is in C, what processor ?
16:12:45ZagorRV|WRK: sh7034
16:13:02Zagora.k.a Hitachi sh-1
16:13:33RV|WRKok will try to find a w32 compiler for it
16:15:27RV|WRKchrist ! ta
16:43:10Ski1has anyone had a trouble with their archos where it won't shutoff?
16:43:21ZagorSki1: do you have your charger connected?
16:43:43Ski1yesterday, I had the charger plugged in
16:44:02Ski1and then I pulled it out and instead of shutting like it normally would, it started up
16:44:18Ski1and then later when I held down the off button, it wouldn't turn off
16:44:24Ski1I had to pull out a battery
16:44:39Ski1and as soon as I put the battery back in, it starts back up!
16:45:01Zagorthey do taht
16:45:19[IDC]Dragoncu later
16:45:24Ski1oh, I didn't know that. I haven't had it long enough to have to replace the batteries yet
16:45:25 Quit [IDC]Dragon ("no fate but what we make")
16:45:40ZagorSki1: trust me. i've had mine since 2001 :)
16:45:55Ski1I never said you were wrong :)
16:47:40Ski1I just want it to shut off :(
16:47:59Ski1I tried turning on the idle shutdown, but it still didn't turn off
16:53:22Zagorare you still having this problem?
17:02:53Ski1oh wait, actually instead of turning off after the idle poweroff time limit, it froze
17:03:00Ski1yeah I still am
17:05:21Zagorwhich model do you have?
17:07:57 Quit Ski1 (
17:11:49 Part RV|WRK
17:17:21NJoinSki1 [0] (
17:20:41lImbusZagor: which xclef are you dealing at ?
17:20:46Zagorthe hd-800
17:20:50lImbuslooking at / dealing with
17:20:58lImbusok, tnx. looking for pics
17:21:11Zagorbut the hd-500 appears *very* similar, so if we decide to work on it we can probably support both with little extra effort
17:24:06lImbus120 Mhz ? should be able to decode ogg then
17:24:44Zagoryes it can
17:25:57lImbusand fuck these devices actually LOOK good. no compare to the clumsy AJB
17:26:24Ski1have you ever heard of that problem Zagor?
17:27:14ZagorSki1: yes, i have a vague recollection of it. not sure what, if any, we made of it though
17:30:19Zagorgotta go
17:30:21 Part Zagor
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18:03:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:05:29 Join Doensen [0] (
18:07:37lImbushi Doensen. all right ?
18:17:42lImbuscan anyone tell we the cause why a NEW AJBR20 (with usb2 and all the stuff) shows ?? on hw-info-flash ?
18:18:00lImbusthat would mean it is not flasheable
18:20:30 Quit Ski1 ("Leaving")
18:22:08amiconnlImbus: Talking to yourself?
18:27:32lImbusamiconn: I would be glad if somebody could answer me :-)
18:28:14lImbusI mean: these are NEW, why should they not be flasheable ?
18:30:35amiconnIirc this has nothing to do with old vs. new, but only what type of flash chip Archos had available for production
18:30:51 Join Ski1 [0] (
18:35:04lImbusI should take in consideration to solder in a new chip then
18:58:21 Quit lImbus ()
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19:53:35 Part Lear
20:03:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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20:54:55 Join uski [0] (
20:56:36amiconnI'm busy doing my hd upgrade...
20:56:42uskiwhatsup :)
20:56:47uskiyou're lucky :)
20:57:00uskii'm waiting for my solder paste so as to upgrade my RAM and the FLASH
20:57:13uski(with my new hot air soldering gun :))
20:57:19amiconnNext thing I want to do is the white backlight mod
20:57:27midkooh white backlight
20:57:29uskii think i'll do that first
20:57:30midklooks a bit hard
20:57:31uskiit's very easy
20:57:35midki like that idea though
20:57:43midkis there a page tutorial?
20:57:45uskimidk you jsut have to rewire a bit the leds
20:57:50Neurosupherotyes a tutorial!
20:57:52uskihmmm i may write one ;)
20:57:54Neurosupheroti will be great!
20:57:56midkgo uski
20:58:00uskibut it's not because there is a tutorial that it will be easier
20:58:00midki want to do it
20:58:10uskiactually if you have the required skills to do that you don't need a tutorial
20:58:27uskiif you need a tutorial, it means that you have 0 electronic experience and i wouldn't recommand you to do the mod' then
20:58:29midkjust not sure what i need to get or what i need to do
20:58:41Neurosupheroti wonder what effect will produce white leds
20:58:54midkoh, i thought you meant replacing the leds
20:58:56Neurosupheroti never see white backlight
20:58:59uski4 white SMD leds, forward voltage 3.6-3.8V, package size "1206"
20:59:16Neurosupherotwhere can you cuy it?
20:59:18Neurosupherotbuy, some ppl sell them for mobile phones
20:59:52uskii also bought 2 orange leds to replace the red/green ones
21:00:08uskiblack bumpers, gray box, orange leds, and white backlight = very cool look i think ;)
21:00:15uskiorange and gray is a very cool color combination
21:01:22uskiguess what
21:01:25uskii'll do that this evening :P
21:01:31uskilemme take my digital camera ;)
21:02:00Neurosupherotwill you put the tutorial and the photos on the rockbox site?
21:02:01uskii have it
21:02:03uskisee ya :P
21:02:07uskigimme 2 hours
21:02:08uskiprobably ;)
21:02:30uskiit'll be another contribution from me for rockbox, but the first that is clearly "visible" :)
21:02:33uskii hope you'll apreciate it
21:05:18Neurosupherotwhat is milicandela rating ?
21:05:52midki want to see
21:13:04amiconnNeurosupherot: If you want an impression how white backlight will look, see
21:13:05Neurosupherotthere is so many colors that i dont know what to choose if ill buy it
21:13:44midki want the one in the middle
21:14:24midkgo uski
21:14:40 Join diddystar5 [0] (
21:14:58Neurosupheroti dont think that put differents colors will be great effect
21:15:47Neurosupherotand i hesitate to change leds because i dont wanna destroy my archos
21:19:04 Quit adi|home (Client Quit)
21:24:57 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (
21:25:05amiconnhi Jörg
21:25:11midkhi idc
21:25:16[IDC]Dragonhi Jens
21:25:26[IDC]Dragondid I miss uski?
21:25:28 Join jakesir [0] (
21:25:46amiconn[IDC]Dragon: yes (but he said brb)
21:25:48[IDC]Dragonjake has got a trigger on me
21:26:05[IDC]Dragonscripted? ;-)
21:26:12amiconnI just upgraded my hd (only have to close the box again) :))
21:26:13jakesiri don't know
21:26:34[IDC]Dragonjakesir: ho's it going?
21:26:44jakesirnot good
21:26:49jakesirnot much progress
21:26:56jakesirI cut that line
21:27:04jakesirand connected to ground
21:27:28jakesirput it together and when pressing on
21:27:55[IDC]Dragonit exploded?
21:27:59jakesiri see light come on and running boot doesn't work
21:28:23jakesirwith this setup, my hd doesn't start smooth
21:28:28[IDC]Dragonboot=serial boot, or Archos?
21:28:29amiconnbtw: The bug in Rockbox (booting from flash) when the drive is completely empty is still there - it says "panic! disk: null" and USB is not usable.
21:28:44jakesirit starts and stops several times and finally stays on
21:29:32[IDC]Dragonstarts and stops? flaky power?
21:29:37jakesirbut running uart_boot doesn't get me any where
21:30:08[IDC]Dragonamiconn: is F1+On giving you USB?
21:30:23amiconnYes, I knew that solution.
21:30:25jakesirso, i was worried about my soldering job I tested with running that wire to 3v source and same thing
21:30:58[IDC]Dragonamiconn: not meant as a solution, but as diagnostics
21:31:00jakesirso, i resolder it back to the original and it's acting normal
21:31:05amiconnThe Archos firmware is more clever in that case: It says that there is no partition and that you have to format the drive
21:31:43[IDC]Dragonamiconn: interesting report
21:32:17jakesirso, my question is... How do i let it serial boot?
21:32:19[IDC]Dragoncan you fix it and commit an update? ;-)
21:32:34[IDC]Dragonjakesir: one moment please
21:33:18jakesirok.... at least I know my soldering is OK
21:33:22[IDC]Dragonamiconn: hard for "normal" developers to reproduce and test that
21:33:36jakesirI'm gonna seperate that point again
21:35:03Neurosupherotcan we change the voltage délivered to the backlight's leds?
21:36:40amiconn[IDC]Dragon: As I told you earlier I also want to change the leds. I measured the size of the original ones (as I want to use a similar size)
21:37:38amiconnThe original leds are close to 0805. It is a bit difficult to get white 0805 leds. (I don't want to resort to ebay)
21:38:09midkuski> 4 white SMD leds, forward voltage 3.6-3.8V, package size "1206"
21:38:48amiconnI found one German provider for them, however they only sell to business customers. I'll see how I can solve that.
21:39:49[IDC]Dragonamiconn: why not ebay?
21:40:56amiconnI don't like ebay, and have neither bought nor sold anything on ebay up to now.
21:41:11[IDC]DragonI did many times
21:41:24[IDC]Dragonwas OK every time
21:42:01amiconn(1) I don't like auctions in general. (2) I hate all those ebay popup and banner ads.
21:42:20[IDC]Dragonhow about 50 LEDs for EUR13?
21:42:54[IDC]Dragonthat's true, they pollute the internet and google search results
21:45:44[IDC]Dragonjakesir: what exactly happens if you enable uart boot?
21:46:11[IDC]Dragon(it should just appear frozen, disk spinning)
21:46:29jakesirit looks frozen
21:47:01[IDC]Dragonok, does it react to uart_boot?
21:47:07Neurosupherotmaybe the battery is destroyed?
21:47:41[IDC]Dragonwith what command line?
21:47:54jakesirjust about any command
21:48:01jakesiri don't think it's responding
21:48:17[IDC]Dragonit has to
21:49:14jakesiruart_boot -r -p COM1 -h -b
21:49:26[IDC]Dragonyou have to set up the serial wiring fist, the switch it on with in uart boot mode, then run the command
21:50:24[IDC]Dragonlooks ok
21:50:37jakesiryeap, and it's saying downloading monitor....
21:51:09[IDC]Dragonah, and FMs as I know then shut down a few moments after you release On
21:51:23[IDC]Dragonis that the case?
21:51:28jakesirand if I let go ON, then the whole thing shuts off
21:51:44[IDC]Dragonyou need to hold On until the command is through
21:51:44jakesirand I get the message saying...
21:52:01jakesirerror tranmitting monitor byte 0x48, got 0x0
21:52:24[IDC]Dragonyes, tlking to an off box is no good
21:52:54jakesirhow long do i wait?
21:53:03jakesir'til it's finished talking?
21:53:12jakesirI held it on for more than 1-2 min
21:53:14[IDC]Dragonmaybe your serial out from the box is not working?
21:53:27jakesiri tested with teraterm
21:53:43[IDC]Dragonyes, but only your adapter
21:53:59[IDC]Dragonwe don't know if the serial mod is OK
21:54:17jakesiri wish I can send this to ya
21:54:36jakesirthis thing is bugging the hell out of me
21:54:49[IDC]Dragonusually, the start phase of uart_boot (downloading the monitor) is pretty quick, a few moments
21:55:12[IDC]Dragonwhere are you located?
21:55:16Neurosupherotis your warranty always ok?
21:56:05jakesirin maryland,usa
21:56:22[IDC]Dragonnot very practical
21:56:27jakesirwashington DC
21:56:34jakesiryour in europe
21:56:36[IDC]DragonI know, been there
21:56:44Neurosupherotbye, thankx and rockbox rocks!
21:56:49 Quit Neurosupherot ()
21:57:00[IDC]DragonI'm in germany, yes
21:58:55jakesiri'm running out of ideas.... LOL
21:59:13jakesirlet me recapture this setup
21:59:17[IDC]Dragontriple-check your serial mod
21:59:32BCEvenin all ...does anyone know who "kjer" is is who cvs'd the chess clock?
21:59:50jakesirmy next plan is to get external power to the max3232
22:00:14jakesirand if that doesn't work, I'm done, I'll use jbr w/o rockbox
22:00:38amiconnBC: ...does anyone know who "BlueChip" is ... ;)
22:00:39[IDC]DragonBC: Kjell Ericson
22:01:30midkwhat is the chess clock anways
22:01:43BCHe just commented "no simulator environment" and I wanted to track him down and correct the problem
22:02:03jakesirmy set up is... from resistor to ground and press and hold ON button, run the command line
22:02:06[IDC]Dragonjakesir: I understand your frustration
22:02:06jakesiris that right?
22:02:15BCthaks guys
22:02:30[IDC]Dragonjakesir: yes
22:02:32jakesircan you have not enough power to max3232
22:02:54jakesirlet me check the operating voltage
22:02:55[IDC]Dragonyour loopback worked, so I guess it's OK
22:03:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:03:59jakesirkicking myself....
22:04:32BC[IDC]Dragon ...did you find some kind of hui (even text mode gui) for gdb?
22:05:13[IDC]Dragonyes. cygwin or win32?
22:05:31[IDC]Dragonhui = hellish user interface
22:07:06[IDC]DragonBC: type "insight" into the shell
22:07:09BClol - just googled for HUI ....I think I need more caffeine
22:08:11amiconnGrrr, so many windows, so little desktop space...
22:09:58 Quit Doensen (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:10:15BC[IDC]Dragon: "insight" ...I shall have to install it, is it part of the gdb package?
22:10:36[IDC]Dragonpart of cygwin, I guess
22:13:30jakesirhmmm, do you think the baud is too fast and that the jbr doesn't receive??
22:14:08[IDC]Dragonyou don't have a choice of baudrate, it's fix
22:14:26jakesirwhat the rate at?
22:14:53[IDC]Dragonit starts with a very weird rate, the switches to 115200
22:18:32jakesirsorry to ask, but are you sure this uart boot works on JBR2?
22:20:46[IDC]Dragonit's an FM, yes
22:21:01jakesirit's jbr2.0
22:21:09[IDC]Dragonor you have a ROM-less box
22:21:15jakesirbut the board says jbr-fm v2.2
22:21:17[IDC]Dragonthen it won't work
22:21:52[IDC]Dragonlet's check for ROM-less
22:23:21*[IDC]Dragon looks for the FM PCB scan on haxx
22:24:41jakesirone interesting thing is that the box starts normal with the uart boot mod w/o wire connected to GND
22:24:59[IDC]Dragonit does?
22:25:12[IDC]Dragondidn't you say it freezes?
22:25:20jakesirwhen I say normal, it only starts in archos mode with F1+on
22:25:47[IDC]Dragonw/o, sorry
22:25:50jakesirwhen I press just ON, it looks as if frozen
22:26:14[IDC]Dragonso, wire to Gnd: freeze, wire open or to 3V: normal start?
22:27:11jakesirlet me re-phrase
22:27:38jakesirwire to nothing: ON= freeze, ON+F1=archos
22:28:23jakesirwire to GND: ON=freeze, On+F1=freeze
22:29:12[IDC]Dragonlooks good then
22:29:12jakesirwith wire to nothing+ON+F1, after it loads i can release ON and it'll stay on
22:29:55[IDC]Dragongood=having a boot ROM reacting to the pulldown
22:31:02jakesirso, my boot_mod is good, level converter is good.....
22:31:08jakesirconnections are good....
22:31:14jakesirrunning out of idea...
22:31:44[IDC]Dragonrepeating myself: I suspect your serial mod
22:32:14jakesirhow much power do i need on tx/rx end to talk to jbr>
22:32:23jakesir> = ?
22:32:47[IDC]Dragonnothing significant
22:32:49jakesirtalking about pin 11 & 12 end on max3232
22:33:04jakesir~3v is enough?
22:33:19[IDC]Dragonworst case, you drive a 1kOhm pullup, so 3mA
22:33:32[IDC]Dragonvoltage is 3V, yes
22:40:07jakesirabout that rom less, mine look almost like that picture
22:40:21jakesirexcept for FM daughter board
22:41:01midkbye all
22:41:09 Quit midk ("yo yo yo cya later YO YO YO wasa wasa!")
22:41:12BCl8rz mk
22:44:28 Part BC
22:48:55[IDC]Dragonjakesir: have a look at this one:
22:50:02jakesirlooks same except for FM daughter board
22:50:16[IDC]DragonI know.
22:50:34 Join BC [0] (
22:51:04[IDC]DragonI'd like to direct you to a detail, do you see your board now?
22:51:59[IDC]Dragonbelow the right pin row of the flash, there are 3 open pads
22:52:15 Join mattzz [0] (
22:52:29[IDC]Dragonunder those is a resistor array, similar to that you soldered to
22:53:13[IDC]Dragondo you see the 3 pads (in a kind of triangle) ?
22:54:42[IDC]Dragonlooking at the picture, not necessarily your board
22:54:51jakesirflash = 39VF020??
22:55:34jakesirright = right when upsided down or right sided down
22:55:52[IDC]DragonI was referring to the picture
22:55:54 Quit diddystar5 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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22:56:27[IDC]Dragonfound the pads?
22:56:49jakesiri think so... right next to 000 resistor
22:57:22[IDC]Dragonare those pads empty at your PCB, too?
22:57:54jakesirwell the 3 squares are with solder
22:57:56[IDC]Dragonand the 0 Ohm resistor present?
22:59:01jakesiryes, 000 resistor I'm thinking it's 1K?, is present
22:59:25[IDC]Dragonand no component on the 3 pads?
22:59:27jakesirbut on the picture only right square is with solder, mine has all of them with solder
22:59:28diddystar5bye bye
22:59:37jakesirother than that, everything is same
22:59:41[IDC]Dragonthat won't matter
22:59:54 Quit diddystar5 (Client Quit)
22:59:59[IDC]Dragonthen you have a box with boot ROM, for sure
23:01:06[IDC]Dragonbecause the ROM-less ones need a double-diode there, and no 0 Ohm resistor
23:02:06jakesirok, that's a good news than
23:10:42 Part BC
23:15:47 Quit midk|gone (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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23:26:38 Join hardeep [0] (1098@
23:49:23 Quit Nibbler (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
23:55:38 Quit mecraw__ ("Trillian (")
23:57:45uskiim bavck
23:57:57uskii did my backlight mod'
23:58:02uskibut i changed my initial plans
23:58:10uskiinstead of doing white B/L, orange leds
23:58:21uskii did orange backlight with white status leds
23:58:25uskiwhy ? two reasons:
23:58:38uski1) I prefer an orange backlight after trying
23:58:50uski(i tried with some T1 white leds to see how it would look like)

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