00:00:00 | lImbus | argl. tab kills me |
00:00:03 | lImbus | hi LinusN |
00:00:56 | LinusN | yo d00dz |
00:01:20 | Bagder | hi Linus |
00:02:05 | lImbus | seems to be getth0-slang-day. (kills grep, lol) |
00:05:56 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
00:07:20 | LinusN | gotta fly, cu around |
00:07:23 | | Part LinusN |
00:07:35 | | Quit Bagder ("Leaving") |
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00:53:41 | | Quit elinenbe (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- s0 d4Mn l33t |t'z 5c4rY!") |
00:58:11 | | Join wake [0] (~wake@69.158.5.133) |
01:00 |
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01:20:52 | | Join midk|gone [0] (~Zakk@c66-235-14-120.sea2.cablespeed.com) |
01:22:08 | | Part amiconn |
01:26:04 | | Quit lImbus () |
01:40:27 | | Quit mecraw ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)") |
02:00 |
02:05:57 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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03:00 |
03:02:52 | | Join potto [0] (potto@die.painfully.org) |
03:03:03 | potto | yo, anyone around ? |
03:03:09 | BlueChip | :) |
03:03:48 | potto | BlueChip; does having my FM Recorder in USB mode charge the batteries ? |
03:04:03 | BlueChip | yes, but not well enough to run it |
03:04:12 | potto | k |
03:04:28 | potto | also very ocasionally mid song the player will stop playing, and the hard drive light will stay on |
03:04:33 | potto | only way to fix is to reboot the player |
03:04:42 | BlueChip | what version of rockbox do you run? |
03:04:42 | potto | what could that be ? |
03:05:06 | potto | 2.2 |
03:05:40 | BlueChip | grab a recent build :) ...you could try my enhanced audio build if you like |
03:06:04 | potto | k |
03:06:11 | potto | also, any recommendations on headphones ? |
03:06:29 | BlueChip | seems koss porta pro are getting rave reviews on the ml |
03:07:23 | potto | haha, k great |
03:07:26 | potto | sorry 20 questions now over :)) |
03:07:41 | BlueChip | wish they were all that simple |
03:07:47 | BlueChip | ;) |
03:46:24 | | Quit wake ("leaving") |
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03:53:11 | | Part BlueChip |
04:00 |
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05:00 |
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06:00 |
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06:48:30 | | Join elinenbe [0] (trilluser@207-237-224-177.c3-0.nyr-ubr1.nyr.ny.cable.rcn.com) |
06:59:58 | | Join LinusN [200] (~linus@labb.contactor.se) |
07:00 |
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07:37:20 | | Join midk [0] (Zakk@c-67-160-88-198.client.comcast.net) |
07:37:54 | midk | hi all |
07:38:00 | midk | site down? |
07:38:05 | midk | oh nm :) |
07:51:32 | LinusN | brain down? :-) |
07:52:17 | midk | heh, almost :D |
08:00 |
08:00:23 | | Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (~idc-drago@pD9E346FB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
08:00:29 | midk | hi idc |
08:00:34 | [IDC]Dragon | hi |
08:06:07 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
08:08:31 | | Join Bagder [241] (~dast@labb.contactor.se) |
08:11:40 | midk | hi bagder |
08:11:41 | midk | i mean |
08:11:45 | midk | hi captain bagder |
08:11:46 | Bagder | 'ello |
08:11:55 | midk | not that linus is no longer a captain ;) |
08:15:39 | LinusN | the thing is that Bagder isn't a captain :-) |
08:16:11 | Bagder | the harsh reality |
08:17:23 | [IDC]Dragon | may I ask a technical question? |
08:17:50 | Bagder | about ships? ;-) |
08:18:06 | [IDC]Dragon | almost... |
08:18:21 | [IDC]Dragon | shipped boxes maybe |
08:18:28 | [IDC]Dragon | shipped software |
08:18:35 | [IDC]Dragon | how do I force a directory reload (after changing sort options) |
08:19:22 | midk | lol.. ok, linus remains the only captain |
08:19:24 | midk | well of course for me |
08:19:27 | [IDC]Dragon | somehow the F2 screen does that, although not explicitely programmed there |
08:19:28 | midk | but that goes without saying |
08:20:58 | LinusN | many functions return a bool telling if we have been in USB mode or not |
08:21:21 | LinusN | we often force a reload by returning true |
08:21:29 | [IDC]Dragon | ah, great |
08:22:44 | [IDC]Dragon | but the F2 screen returns false... |
08:28:44 | LinusN | which file are you editing here? |
08:29:49 | | Join AciD` [0] (~acid@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net) |
08:30:15 | [IDC]Dragon | not editing, but looking at screens.c, quick_screen() |
08:30:48 | [IDC]Dragon | ah, found it |
08:30:57 | [IDC]Dragon | it's done in tree.c |
08:31:03 | LinusN | in tree.c, you set reload_dir = true to force a reload |
08:31:24 | dwihno | *yawn* |
08:31:26 | dwihno | Another day! |
08:31:40 | [IDC]Dragon | dirbrowse() caches global_settings.sort_case and checks if it changed |
08:32:53 | [IDC]Dragon | I either add my sort options to that caching, or work with reload_dir |
08:33:45 | LinusN | ...or invent a more clean way of signalling the need to reload |
08:34:33 | LinusN | but i guess adding the sort options is the easiest/best way for now |
08:38:39 | [IDC]Dragon | just found a neat little function called reload_directory(), to just set that flag |
08:38:46 | | Quit AciD` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
08:39:51 | * | LinusN hasn't been in tree.c for qute some time |
08:43:40 | [IDC]Dragon | it's kind of duplicate ways there |
08:44:03 | midk | yay i updated the pong doc |
08:44:34 | Bagder | you played it on your archos? |
08:44:51 | midk | yes, i wish the paddles moved faster.. |
08:45:00 | [IDC]Dragon | so do I |
08:45:04 | midk | i ran into the same trouble with breakout... still have that problem |
08:45:08 | Bagder | that's easily fixed |
08:45:14 | midk | linus did you ever look at that button repeat speed function? |
08:45:15 | Bagder | how's the speed of the ball? |
08:45:24 | [IDC]Dragon | maybe a kind of accelleration would help |
08:45:29 | Bagder | yes |
08:45:30 | [IDC]Dragon | ball is OK |
08:45:33 | midk | the ball ii think is ok |
08:45:39 | Bagder | but tricky to accelerate since all keys can be pressed at once |
08:45:46 | LinusN | midk: i had a look at it and realized that it wasn't all that simple |
08:46:12 | LinusN | (but i can't remember why...) |
08:47:15 | Bagder | should the pads move twice as fast? |
08:47:19 | midk | even faster |
08:47:29 | Bagder | oh |
08:47:35 | midk | i';ve tried moving paddles +=2 and even up to +=4 |
08:47:39 | * | Bagder considers actually truing this on target |
08:47:41 | [IDC]Dragon | no, twice should be OK |
08:47:46 | midk | it's still just as slow.. just jumpier :) |
08:48:25 | Bagder | ? |
08:48:34 | Bagder | they move faster and jumpier then |
08:48:40 | [IDC]Dragon | didn't we want to give access to the raw button reading? |
08:49:24 | LinusN | i think we settled for that, yes... |
08:49:32 | * | LinusN is starting to remember |
08:49:51 | midk | Bagder: yes, but it seems just as slow |
08:50:01 | [IDC]Dragon | the captain had too much rum... |
08:50:17 | Mode | "#rockbox +o LinusN " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
08:50:22 | [IDC]Dragon | oops |
08:50:23 | midk | yay |
08:50:26 | midk | topic change? |
08:50:29 | [IDC]Dragon | he's gonna kick me |
08:50:36 | midk | noo topic change |
08:50:40 | LinusN | midk: why midk|gone? |
08:50:46 | | Nick midk is now known as midk|here (Zakk@c-67-160-88-198.client.comcast.net) |
08:51:03 | midk|here | midk|gone is other pc |
08:51:12 | Kick | (#rockbox midk|gone :LinusN) by LinusN!~linus@labb.contactor.se |
08:51:12 | | Join midk|gone [0] (~Zakk@c66-235-14-120.sea2.cablespeed.com) |
08:51:19 | LinusN | wtf |
08:51:27 | midk|here | it's probably on auto connect |
08:51:27 | LinusN | come on, midk |
08:51:29 | midk|here | you can ban it if you want |
08:51:31 | midk|here | go ahead |
08:51:37 | midk|here | i'll leave the room next time |
08:51:47 | midk|here | auto rejoin* |
08:57:07 | LinusN | nm |
08:58:11 | midk|here | sorry |
08:58:15 | midk|here | won't happen again |
09:00 |
09:01:17 | | Quit midk|gone (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
09:01:22 | | Join midk|gone [0] (~Zakk@c66-235-14-120.sea2.cablespeed.com) |
09:01:53 | midk|here | oo? |
09:03:11 | | Quit adi|home (Client Quit) |
09:06:21 | | Join Nibbler [0] (nibbler@port-212-202-73-96.dynamic.qsc.de) |
09:08:50 | | Join Zagor [242] (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) |
09:08:55 | Zagor | aloha |
09:09:04 | midk|here | hi zagor. |
09:52:06 | | Quit Nibbler (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
09:53:58 | midk|here | nite |
09:54:05 | | Nick midk|here is now known as midk|here|sleep (Zakk@c-67-160-88-198.client.comcast.net) |
09:54:06 | * | Bagder waves to midk |
09:54:07 | midk|here|sleep | lol |
09:54:14 | midk|here|sleep | sorry about midk|gone |
09:54:21 | midk|here|sleep | he won't be here any more after... tomorrow |
10:00 |
10:00:29 | Bagder | spam spam spam |
10:00:32 | Bagder | baked beans |
10:00:35 | Bagder | and spam |
10:01:27 | Bagder | did anyone else notice a spam increase durine june 9 to about june 15? |
10:01:33 | Bagder | during |
10:02:12 | [IDC]Dragon | they try to sell me university degrees every day |
10:02:45 | Bagder | On June 14th, I got 3900 spams |
10:03:07 | [IDC]Dragon | on one day? |
10:03:15 | Bagder | on june 15th, I got 5250 virus emails |
10:03:18 | Bagder | in one day |
10:03:20 | * | Zagor doesn't keep statistics, and never checks the spam box |
10:03:38 | [IDC]Dragon | geez, what orders of magnitude are that? |
10:03:41 | Zagor | survival of the fittest :) |
10:03:52 | [IDC]Dragon | I get a few per day |
10:03:54 | Bagder | I usually get like 300 spams/day |
10:04:04 | [IDC]Dragon | this is sick |
10:04:23 | Zagor | SPF would be nice |
10:04:38 | Zagor | unfortunately, I think it will be universally adopted just after IPv6 |
10:05:02 | Bagder | ... which will take a long time still |
10:06:10 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
10:07:08 | [IDC]Dragon | Zagor: you've just checked in a very outdated settings.c ? |
10:07:18 | Zagor | ?? |
10:07:48 | Zagor | i don't see a cvs mail for it |
10:08:19 | [IDC]Dragon | oops, sorry |
10:08:27 | Zagor | wrong repository? |
10:08:32 | [IDC]Dragon | (my scroll error) |
10:08:36 | Zagor | ah |
10:11:11 | Bagder | Zagor: you still have your usb cable here at work? |
10:13:10 | Zagor | no |
10:13:21 | Bagder | ok |
10:23:08 | Bagder | freshmeat improved the other day |
10:24:36 | Zagor | in what way? |
10:24:53 | Bagder | the page showing info about a single project |
10:25:03 | Bagder | includes much more info in a nicer way now |
10:25:14 | Bagder | like "Users who subscribed to this project also subscribed to:" |
10:25:17 | Bagder | etc |
10:25:22 | Zagor | nice |
10:27:10 | LinusN | Bagder: i have my usb cable here |
10:27:20 | Bagder | ok |
10:27:24 | Bagder | neat |
10:27:31 | LinusN | time to replace my PC fan |
10:27:36 | LinusN | cu in a while |
10:27:38 | | Part LinusN |
10:29:04 | Bagder | brb |
10:29:06 | | Part Bagder |
10:29:23 | | Join Bagder [241] (~dast@labb.contactor.se) |
10:30:41 | [IDC]Dragon | the daily build page looks nice, all green |
10:30:58 | * | Bagder cheers |
10:31:26 | [IDC]Dragon | but we had plenty of bugs, not shown there ;-) |
10:31:33 | Bagder | hehe |
10:31:51 | Bagder | "Totally 163 bugs (23 marked as fixed, 127 open and 13 bad)" |
10:32:10 | [IDC]Dragon | oh dear |
10:32:38 | [IDC]Dragon | most are outdated I guess |
10:32:42 | Bagder | yes |
10:32:52 | [IDC]Dragon | we're just too lazy to work though there |
10:33:17 | Zagor | a lot of those bugs are duplicates and unreproducibles |
10:33:21 | [IDC]Dragon | somehow bugs reported to the group are more likely to get fixed |
10:33:38 | Zagor | we should have a bug secretary |
10:34:16 | Bagder | a bug master |
10:34:20 | Bagder | lord of the flies! |
10:34:21 | dwihno | Lord of the bugs? |
10:34:23 | dwihno | Haha |
10:34:56 | Bagder | that would be Golding ;-) |
10:36:38 | | Join LinusN [200] (~linus@labb.contactor.se) |
10:36:43 | dwihno | How are you guys reading RSS feeds? |
10:36:53 | * | Bagder isn't |
10:36:56 | Bagder | :-) |
10:37:04 | Bagder | only at www.haxx.se/home/ |
10:37:04 | Zagor | well we do on /home/ |
10:37:07 | LinusN | me neither |
10:37:12 | dwihno | DotHome platform? :) |
10:37:24 | Bagder | /home/ sweet /home/ |
10:37:26 | * | [IDC]Dragon closed 2 patches about dir sorting |
10:37:39 | Bagder | closing is Goodness |
10:37:43 | Zagor | try it, you'll like it. all geek rss on one web page |
10:38:36 | Zagor | insanely configurable :) |
10:38:51 | [IDC]Dragon | like Rockbox? |
10:38:57 | | Join AciD` [0] (~acid@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net) |
10:39:49 | dwihno | Zagor: Yum. RSS. |
10:40:48 | Zagor | [IDC]Dragon: like rockbox in c0uttas wet dreams ;) |
10:43:00 | [IDC]Dragon | btw, how's he doing? |
10:43:51 | [IDC]Dragon | c0utta: sleeping? |
10:44:57 | Bagder | Rockbox has now passed 70000 lines of code |
10:45:01 | Bagder | counting only firmware and apps |
10:45:20 | Bagder | 2116940 bytes |
10:45:25 | Zagor | that's quite compact, actually |
10:46:25 | [IDC]Dragon | new settings code made it smaller ;-) |
10:46:27 | Bagder | 30 bytes per line in average |
10:46:29 | Bagder | :-) |
10:49:45 | | Join amiconn [0] (~jens@pD95D1F0F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
10:49:55 | amiconn | hi all |
10:50:03 | Bagder | curl is only 51000 lines of code |
10:50:17 | Bagder | hi jens |
10:51:14 | amiconn | Bagder: As I've redone the VoiceFile page in the wiki, you can now delete the old http://rockbox.haxx.se/Voice/ folder, or at least the large binary files within |
10:51:28 | Bagder | yes, I'll do that |
10:51:52 | Bagder | nice work btw |
10:53:27 | [IDC]Dragon | are binaries in twiki version-controlled? |
10:53:51 | [IDC]Dragon | (would be large then) |
10:54:02 | Bagder | we have lots of space ;-) |
10:54:23 | Bagder | >12GB free atm |
10:55:48 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: Yes, they are |
10:59:14 | Zagor | i'd prefer we store the files unzipped, personally |
10:59:31 | [IDC]Dragon | gotta relocate |
10:59:34 | | Quit [IDC]Dragon () |
11:00 |
11:01:16 | amiconn | Zagor: The reason why I zipped the files is that within the zip files, they are all called "english.voice" or "deutsch.voice", in order to be able to unzip them and directly be able to use them. |
11:03:31 | Zagor | ah, good point |
11:16:17 | | Nick Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) |
11:24:18 | | Join Nibbler [0] (nibbler@port-212-202-73-96.dynamic.qsc.de) |
12:00 |
12:02:52 | | Quit AciD` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
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12:06:13 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
12:10:57 | | Join lImbus [0] (~manuel@kernel.cycos.net) |
12:38:48 | c0utta | wet dream. what a sick bunch! |
12:39:17 | | Nick Zagor|lunch is now known as Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) |
12:39:21 | Zagor | ;-) |
12:40:32 | | Nick c0utta is now known as c0utta{dinner} (~c0utta@47.cust4.sa.dsl.ozemail.com.au) |
13:00 |
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13:29:09 | Zagor | anyone with a player here? |
13:30:16 | LinusN | me? |
13:30:46 | Zagor | player-and-recorder-and-v2-and-fm doesn't count ;) |
13:34:43 | | Join Nibbler [0] (nibbler@port-212-202-73-96.dynamic.qsc.de) |
13:42:20 | | Quit potto () |
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14:00 |
14:04:01 | | Nick c0utta{dinner} is now known as c0utta{zZ} (~c0utta@47.cust4.sa.dsl.ozemail.com.au) |
14:06:15 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
14:12:48 | | Join ka [0] (~tkirk@65.216.194.2) |
14:14:42 | amiconn | Bagder: Usually, the names of the committers on the front page get mangled to not show the nicknames, but the (real) first name. However, this is not the case for "kjer". Is this intentional? |
14:15:25 | Bagder | no |
14:16:09 | * | Bagder fixes |
14:16:42 | Bagder | there's a list userid => first name, in the script |
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14:52:15 | Zagor | quick poll: percent or dB in the status bar? |
14:52:24 | Bagder | percent |
14:52:27 | LinusN | dB |
14:52:35 | Bagder | actually |
14:52:39 | Bagder | that could be an option |
14:52:51 | * | LinusN slaps Bagder |
14:52:56 | Bagder | I'm serious |
14:53:01 | * | LinusN slaps Bagder again |
14:53:10 | Bagder | /kick LinusN |
14:53:14 | Bagder | oops |
14:53:16 | Bagder | ;-) |
14:53:17 | * | Zagor curses flexlm and goes to reboot the server *again* |
14:53:44 | Bagder | isn't dB a relative scale? |
14:53:53 | LinusN | my upcoming commit changes the volume unit to dB |
14:54:11 | LinusN | however, the status bar is somewhat special |
14:54:46 | LinusN | the new volume range will be -115 - +12dB |
14:55:01 | LinusN | 0dB is "Line" level |
14:55:03 | Bagder | users will find that very odd I'm sure |
14:56:20 | Zagor | what is really odd is the "volume" menu item, where the screen shows dB and the status bar %... :-) |
14:56:43 | Zagor | I think I'm siding with bagder for an option |
14:57:25 | LinusN | volume unit: dB/% ? |
14:57:31 | Zagor | yeah |
14:57:49 | LinusN | it will be dB in the cfg file in any case |
14:57:58 | Zagor | that's fine |
15:00 |
15:04:22 | | Part julia ("Leaving") |
15:06:19 | LinusN | max volume will be 112%, btw |
15:06:46 | LinusN | 100% is line level (0dB) |
15:07:01 | LinusN | any volume above that may cause clipping |
15:07:23 | Bagder | 115 ? |
15:07:51 | LinusN | 112 is very convenient |
15:08:11 | Bagder | -115 to 0 db makes 0 to 112 ? |
15:08:14 | Bagder | that sounds weird |
15:08:26 | LinusN | -115 - +12dB |
15:08:31 | Bagder | yes |
15:08:48 | Bagder | so why not 127%? |
15:09:01 | LinusN | because 100% is 0dB |
15:09:18 | Bagder | and what is 0%? |
15:09:41 | LinusN | 0% is either -115dB or -100dB, haven't decided yet |
15:09:46 | Zagor | it's not perfect at the low range. but anything below 30-40% is inaudible anyway... |
15:10:01 | Bagder | I don't get it |
15:10:11 | Bagder | if you are to change it, why not allow the full scale? |
15:10:21 | Bagder | then -115 db is 0 % |
15:10:30 | Bagder | and 127% is 12db |
15:10:31 | LinusN | for easier dB<->% conversion, i might settle with -100dB - +12dB |
15:10:37 | Zagor | we want 0% to be silent but 100% to be 0dB |
15:10:45 | Bagder | why? |
15:10:49 | Zagor | how do we scale 100-127 in 12 steps? |
15:11:03 | Bagder | why would we? |
15:11:16 | LinusN | for easier conversion |
15:11:24 | Zagor | why we want 100% to be 0dB? |
15:11:34 | Bagder | yes why is that important? |
15:11:42 | Zagor | because 0dB is line level == no conversion |
15:11:59 | Zagor | 100% of the sound, no modification |
15:12:00 | Bagder | and that is important to be 100%? |
15:12:18 | Zagor | it feels natural, I think |
15:12:27 | Bagder | I'm not saying it can't be this way, I just think you're doing it more complicated than it needs to be |
15:12:27 | LinusN | everything above 0dB may cause clipping |
15:12:47 | Bagder | yes, and that's why a dB display can be useful |
15:12:50 | LinusN | so it feels natural to say that anything above 100% may cause clipping |
15:12:53 | Bagder | the percentage guys don't think in dB |
15:13:25 | Zagor | they don't have to. just know that 100% is full volume. you can crank it above, but it's above spec and may distort |
15:13:35 | LinusN | and it's convenient to map the dB and % steps in even steps |
15:13:45 | Bagder | I "know" its 100% because you say so |
15:13:50 | Bagder | it could be 110% for all I care |
15:14:02 | Bagder | LinusN: yes, but then -115 would be 0 |
15:14:07 | Bagder | 0% |
15:14:09 | Zagor | it's much more intuitive that 100% is full volume |
15:14:15 | Bagder | but it isn't |
15:14:19 | Bagder | you can go beyond |
15:14:19 | Zagor | yes it is |
15:14:49 | Zagor | then you are amplifying the sound == creating more sound than the input data has == >100% |
15:15:07 | LinusN | i think percentages >100 is a clear signal that you are above limits |
15:15:23 | Bagder | I understand your reasoning, I just don't think that logic is worth much effort to keep |
15:15:43 | Zagor | what volume do you use in your car? |
15:15:59 | Zagor | wouldn't you like to know which level is the max level without risk for clipping? |
15:16:04 | Bagder | I have an analog knob, I have no clue ;-) |
15:16:17 | Zagor | i mean on your archos, when you connect it to the car |
15:16:41 | Bagder | so how have all the people managed until today? |
15:17:10 | Bagder | they do, because not very many people go beyond 92 |
15:17:11 | LinusN | they have discussed it over and over in the forums, and either guessed the levels or asked the developers |
15:17:12 | Zagor | they haven't gotten less than the best sound |
15:17:26 | Zagor | uh, they *have* less than the best |
15:17:52 | Bagder | and all of a sudden they will stop that because the display says >100% ? |
15:18:18 | LinusN | the sad part of the story is that you still get clipping if you crank the bass/treble/loudness settings |
15:18:27 | Zagor | yes, I think people will not go beyond 100% if they want distortion-free sound |
15:18:39 | Bagder | LinusN: and that is an argument for not trying what you're trying to... :-) |
15:19:12 | Zagor | every little helps. 100% is a vastly better level than 92% (and some) |
15:19:51 | LinusN | i think a dB scale helps those who care, and doesn't make it any more complicated for the "average" user |
15:20:12 | Zagor | i think they are two separate issues which shouldn't be mixed |
15:20:14 | Bagder | that's why I say a dB option is good |
15:20:55 | LinusN | my point is that the displayed value is of little use for the average user, be it percent or dB |
15:21:07 | LinusN | if it sounds too hig, lower it |
15:21:24 | Bagder | I agree |
15:21:34 | Bagder | and that's why I believe 100% won't be a magic border to people |
15:21:48 | LinusN | so i don't think a percent option is necessary |
15:21:58 | Bagder | I do |
15:22:12 | Bagder | well, not "necessary" perhaps |
15:22:16 | Zagor | it's not a magic border. but if you are connecting your archos to the stereo, which output level do you naturally choose? 92, 100 or 115 percent? |
15:22:30 | LinusN | i choose 0dB :-) |
15:22:30 | Bagder | the one that sounds fine with no clipping |
15:22:44 | Zagor | Bagder: so you listen through your entire collection at each level? |
15:22:53 | Bagder | no, I change as I go along |
15:23:00 | Bagder | starting with the lowest |
15:23:01 | Zagor | ...while recording a cd? |
15:23:09 | Bagder | I think most people do that |
15:23:21 | Zagor | i think most people would like to not have to |
15:23:33 | Bagder | they still have to |
15:23:35 | Zagor | no |
15:23:41 | Bagder | why are some people using >92 today? |
15:23:47 | LinusN | i think a dB scale is only mildly confusing for the "average" user, not very hard to accept |
15:24:00 | Zagor | because they value sound pressure over sound quality |
15:24:12 | Bagder | yes, and these guys will then use >100% tomorrow |
15:24:31 | Zagor | exactly. but the other 98% who wants the real line level will use 100% |
15:24:31 | LinusN | but then they know that they are pushing the limit |
15:25:01 | Bagder | there aren't that many that use rockbox at 92 today |
15:25:21 | Zagor | you keep making my point. they would if they knew 92 was the magic number! |
15:25:31 | LinusN | bagder: based on your scientific research? |
15:25:45 | Bagder | LinusN: based on BC's research |
15:25:50 | Bagder | you forgotten? |
15:25:58 | Bagder | again |
15:26:03 | Bagder | I don't mind if you do this |
15:26:03 | LinusN | didn't follow that thread |
15:26:21 | Bagder | I only think you believe people think like you, and I don't |
15:26:32 | LinusN | there is a need to know the line level |
15:26:43 | Zagor | it's a question of not having to think |
15:27:01 | Bagder | 100% is not "naturally" the line level |
15:27:07 | Bagder | it isn't today for example |
15:27:14 | LinusN | the dB scale communicates this very clearly imho |
15:27:22 | Bagder | yes I agree |
15:27:35 | Zagor | yes it is. line level is the unmodified sound pressure, what's on the record. 100% sound level. |
15:27:58 | Bagder | only if you know what you can crank it up beyond 100% |
15:28:03 | LinusN | Bagder: 100% being +12dB was a bad thing of us to do in the first place |
15:28:04 | Bagder | I would believe 100% to be maximum |
15:28:04 | Zagor | not at all |
15:28:12 | Zagor | it is |
15:28:17 | Bagder | no |
15:28:21 | Bagder | 112 is |
15:28:34 | Zagor | what is the length of a rope? |
15:28:34 | LinusN | it's the *maximum without clipping* |
15:28:50 | LinusN | or rather "risk of clipping" |
15:28:51 | Bagder | you only read what you want to read from me |
15:28:55 | Bagder | I'll stop |
15:29:15 | LinusN | Bagder: i see your point |
15:29:16 | Bagder | max == the highest possible value |
15:29:54 | LinusN | the dB scale would solve this issue |
15:30:19 | Bagder | dB will occupy a lot more space in the status bar |
15:30:30 | Zagor | so you think the magic number 92 is the optimal solution? |
15:30:43 | Bagder | no, the magic number... 115 |
15:30:45 | LinusN | Bagder: not if we limit it to -99 - 12 |
15:30:54 | Bagder | LinusN: true |
15:30:57 | LinusN | 115? |
15:30:59 | Bagder | and I guess -99 is silent enough |
15:31:18 | LinusN | indeed |
15:31:28 | Bagder | -115dB would be 0%, 0dB would be 115%, 12dB would be 127% |
15:31:36 | Bagder | but again |
15:31:43 | Bagder | I don't feel strongly about that particular stuff |
15:32:00 | Bagder | I just don't think 100% is "naturally" 0dB |
15:32:18 | LinusN | i do |
15:32:44 | Bagder | yes, you keep saying that ;-) |
15:33:02 | LinusN | do you people still think a dB scale would upset/confuse Joe User? |
15:33:09 | Bagder | so then, go with plain dB instead |
15:33:32 | Zagor | LinusN: yes I do |
15:33:38 | Bagder | LinusN: it will probably confuse Joe a bit, but not a lot |
15:33:48 | Zagor | it runs opposite to what a novice user expects |
15:34:08 | Bagder | exactly |
15:34:18 | LinusN | still, does the displayed value matter? |
15:34:32 | LinusN | it's the perceived volume that counts |
15:34:33 | Bagder | LinusN: you said so when you claim 100% is important ;-) |
15:34:55 | Zagor | if it doesn't matter, why do we display it? ;) |
15:34:57 | * | Bagder hides |
15:34:59 | Bagder | gotta go |
15:35:03 | | Part Bagder |
15:35:15 | LinusN | Zagor: because 0dB is the "magic" limit |
15:35:29 | LinusN | anything else is just relative |
15:35:42 | Zagor | the number is important because sometimes you want to adjust to an approximate level without hearing the sound |
15:36:20 | LinusN | yes, but that level is just a memorized level anyway |
15:37:08 | LinusN | be it 70% or -30dB |
15:37:24 | Zagor | face it, dB is for sound geeks. the rest of the world uses positive integers. :) |
15:37:37 | LinusN | :-) |
15:38:43 | LinusN | percent is a quite silly unit anyway |
15:39:17 | LinusN | in rockbox, it's just % of allowed register range, has nothing to do with sound pressure |
15:39:45 | Zagor | it's % of what the device can do. just like 1-10 on an amplifier. |
15:39:48 | LinusN | it's not like 50% is half the volume |
15:40:17 | LinusN | so we could just as well have the range 0-127 |
15:40:30 | Zagor | that's because sound pressure is a complex subject with great variations |
15:40:32 | LinusN | and skip the percent |
15:40:54 | Zagor | yeah, that'd be fun for programmers and silly for everybody else |
15:41:23 | LinusN | why? the max volume is different on each and every device out there |
15:41:34 | LinusN | on some, it's 10, on others it's 15 |
15:41:39 | Zagor | not at all. every device in existence has a "max" |
15:41:40 | LinusN | or 25 |
15:41:58 | LinusN | yes, but i think percent is unnecessary |
15:42:09 | Zagor | or will you go out and draw "0-127" in crayon on everybodies archoses? |
15:42:50 | LinusN | the original firmware has no % unit afaicr |
15:42:56 | Zagor | of course it's unnecessary. but it's a simple and intuitive scale. everybody knows how it works. using arbitrary scales for everything just makes it more complex. |
15:43:45 | LinusN | the simpleness and intuitiveness ends when we introduce >100% levels |
15:44:24 | Zagor | we lose a little but we also gain a little |
15:44:49 | LinusN | i think the average user won't have any problems with the dB scale |
15:45:20 | Zagor | I think we shouldn't change established concepts "just because" |
15:46:15 | LinusN | and you think the dB scale is "just because"? |
15:47:02 | Zagor | it's only motivation is due to an internal restructure of the code. is that a good argument to change the user interface? methinks not. |
15:47:22 | LinusN | joe user won't care what the display says, he will listen and select the level |
15:47:40 | LinusN | and the "audio geek" will see what the line level is |
15:48:06 | Zagor | according to your scientific research? ;) |
15:48:14 | LinusN | absolutely! :-) |
15:48:28 | Zagor | now go add the option :) |
15:50:07 | * | LinusN somehow lost the interest, that'll wait until another day |
15:50:15 | LinusN | gotta fly, cu l8r |
15:50:18 | | Part LinusN |
15:50:19 | Zagor | bye |
15:54:41 | Zagor | that was a long argument with no result :) |
16:00 |
16:06:16 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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16:37:28 | lImbus | Zagor: I am currently reading the log as I am back from meeting, and I want to give an answer to the question why some people would go over 0db (aka 92%) |
16:38:28 | lImbus | In my car, nobody know why, 0db (or 92% ) is still less louder than if I switch back to cd or radio on my car radio. |
16:39:32 | lImbus | so I go over to 95 or even 100% to not have to screw up the volume on my radio so high it kills me switching back to radio/cd. |
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16:49:30 | NHeal | anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net |
16:49:30 | NJoin | tomMeditates [0] (~kaboofa@66.92.66.5) |
16:49:30 | NJoin | lImbus [0] (~manuel@kernel.cycos.net) |
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16:50:16 | Mode | "#rockbox -o logbot " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
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16:51:40 | NJoin | pfavr [0] (pfavr@dyna218-088.nada.kth.se) |
16:51:40 | NJoin | Zagor [242] (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) |
16:51:40 | NJoin | midk|gone [0] (~Zakk@c66-235-14-120.sea2.cablespeed.com) |
16:53:36 | * | pfavr wonder if anyone saw my blob about volume settings? |
16:54:06 | Zagor | i did, but we were only three people in that split |
16:55:28 | NJoin | ka [0] (~tkirk@65.216.194.2) |
16:55:28 | NJoin | c0utta{zZ} [0] (~c0utta@47.cust4.sa.dsl.ozemail.com.au) |
16:55:43 | pfavr | Zagor, but what do you think - does it sound stupid? |
16:56:09 | Zagor | yes :) adding ever more options is not the way forward. a db/% option is bad enough. |
16:56:44 | pfavr | :-) thought so. |
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16:59:49 | NJoin | tomMeditates [0] (~kaboofa@66.92.66.5) |
17:00 |
17:00:10 | lImbus | Zagor: did you answer to my statement ? I'm not sure If there is QoS during NSplits |
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17:02:24 | NJoin | pfavr [0] (pfavr@dyna218-088.nada.kth.se) |
17:02:24 | NJoin | Zagor [242] (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) |
17:02:24 | NJoin | midk|gone [0] (~Zakk@c66-235-14-120.sea2.cablespeed.com) |
17:02:42 | lImbus | lol |
17:02:42 | Zagor | i think i'll start connecting to fixed IPs :( |
17:02:42 | Zagor | <Zagor> yeah, I agree there are times when you want to go above 0dB. but I still think 100% corresponds more naturally to 0dB than 92% |
17:03:56 | lImbus | of course. I would more 'understand' what I do when I go up to 112% |
17:04:54 | lImbus | anybody else who doesn't care about clipping, the actual meaning of 0db and so on does not care anyway. |
17:18:08 | | Join Bagder [0] (~daniel@c25025a.hud.bostream.se) |
17:18:20 | Bagder | 'cvs diff -u | patch -R' |
17:18:35 | Bagder | comes handy |
17:20:05 | | Join iSheep [0] (~4givn@dpc691997050.direcpc.com) |
17:23:49 | Zagor | :) |
17:24:12 | Zagor | iSheep, is that the new entertainment device from Apple? ;) |
17:24:46 | Zagor | special made for the australian and irish markets ;-P |
17:25:20 | Bagder | transparant blue sheep |
17:25:29 | iSheep | that's it ;-) |
17:25:44 | iSheep | Sheep for the Mac crowd |
17:25:47 | Bagder | hehe |
17:28:21 | iSheep | Hey... I have a Rockbox question. Whenever I try to use a plugin, I get the "Incompatible Version" error |
17:28:47 | Zagor | your plugins don't match your core firmware |
17:29:14 | Zagor | unzip the whole release file to your archos drive |
17:30:22 | iSheep | okay, all done. now retry? |
17:30:32 | Zagor | are you running flashed? |
17:30:36 | | Quit Bagder ("Leaving") |
17:30:49 | iSheep | I *have* flashed, if that's what you mean |
17:31:12 | Zagor | yes. then you first run ajbrec.ajz, and then flash the new rockbox.ucl |
17:31:46 | iSheep | so now, on the Archos, select ajbrec.ajz and hit Play? |
17:31:53 | Zagor | yes |
17:32:01 | Zagor | then select rockbox.ucl and hit play |
17:32:48 | | Join mecraw [0] (~mecraw@69.2.235.2) |
17:32:53 | iSheep | hmm.. is that in the root directory? I don't see it |
17:33:02 | Zagor | it's in .rockbox |
17:33:09 | iSheep | oh ok |
17:33:46 | iSheep | okay, it just said "Verify OK" after I ran that |
17:34:14 | iSheep | and that fixed it. :-) thanks for the help |
17:34:26 | Zagor | you're welcome |
17:35:29 | amiconn | Zagor: Imho the volume scale should simply be changed to dB. The treble/bass control already used it, and, as mentioned before, many home stereo devices use it as well (even some which are >10 years old) |
17:35:36 | iSheep | Also.. I've noticed a problem where sometimes when I'm pressing the up or down arrow, the Archos will think I hit the Play button. is there anything I can do about this? |
17:36:25 | | Quit ka ("Leaving") |
17:37:16 | Zagor | we had a discussion about that the other day. i suspect that is due to mechanical pressure, while some think it can be due to inaccurate button reading in the code. |
17:37:29 | Zagor | do you get it often? i.e. is it hard to repeat the problem? |
17:38:05 | Zagor | amiconn: i'm hesitant. maybe you're right. |
17:38:08 | iSheep | well... it's definitely random |
17:38:28 | iSheep | :-) happens at inopportune times |
17:38:47 | iSheep | But I'd say I could get it to happen again, basically by pressing the arrows enough times |
17:39:54 | Zagor | then we could use you for testing our theories |
17:41:19 | iSheep | yeah.. I don't know what to think. it use is frustrating, though |
17:41:53 | Zagor | are you on the mailing list? |
17:42:03 | iSheep | hmm...no, I'm not |
17:43:09 | Zagor | what happens if you press both up and down simultaneously? do you get PLAY events then? |
17:44:20 | iSheep | if I press them simultaneously, it either scrolls up or down.. and after pressing them maybe 10 times, it responded as if I hit Play |
17:44:52 | Zagor | does it happen more often if you press both or just one? |
17:46:51 | iSheep | well, it seems to happen more often while pressing the down arrow as opposed to up |
17:46:59 | iSheep | I never really use both at the same time, though |
17:47:21 | Zagor | i know. i'm just trying to discern if it's a mechanical or electrical issue. |
17:48:48 | Zagor | but it happens sometimes when pressing the UP button? |
17:49:41 | iSheep | you know, I'm not sure about the up button. one thing I've noticed is it seems it happens when I'm PRESSING the down button, but not if I'm holding it and scrolling through |
17:50:06 | iSheep | actually, the up button triggers F2 occasionally |
17:50:24 | Zagor | does it ever trigger play? it's important. |
17:50:28 | iSheep | not often, though |
17:50:41 | iSheep | not that I've noticed. let me try pressing it a lot and see if it does |
17:51:40 | iSheep | no, it doesn't |
17:53:56 | Zagor | then I would say it's an electrical problem, and fixable in the code |
17:54:31 | iSheep | hey, that would be terrific |
17:54:36 | Zagor | thank you for testing |
17:54:45 | iSheep | no problem |
17:55:03 | iSheep | I need to get going, but if you need me to do anything else to help out, feel free to e-mail me at luke2@famteam.com |
17:55:31 | Zagor | i imagine we will want you to test the fix, so we know it works. i'll send you a mail. |
17:55:57 | iSheep | I'd be happy to help out. See ya later! |
17:56:04 | Zagor | bye |
17:56:12 | | Quit iSheep () |
17:56:34 | Zagor | amiconn: seems you and jörg were right |
17:59:55 | amiconn | Maybe. We should test this |
18:00 |
18:00:47 | Zagor | yup |
18:00:50 | amiconn | I would not start with full debouncing, since this will make button press detection even slower than it is now. |
18:01:20 | amiconn | My first try would be to narrow the window of "good" values for each button |
18:02:06 | amiconn | Imho this would require a survey for the typical values on a number of boxes |
18:02:16 | Zagor | that might not be so easy. tests show different units have very different values. linus had problems with that. |
18:02:44 | Zagor | he did just such a survey long ago. the results should be dug up and published. |
18:04:40 | amiconn | Do these values really differ much? Of course they do between the different models... |
18:05:26 | Zagor | as far as I remember, they differed a lot between different individual units of the same model |
18:06:20 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
18:08:18 | amiconn | Hmm, we could simply look if do happen to also have a recorder v1 |
18:16:50 | * | amiconn gets (AN5) nothing: ~001, LEFT: ~25E, PLAY: ~32C, RIGHT: ~18E, DOWN: 3FB, (AN4) nothing: ~001, F1: ~18E, F2: ~25F, F3: 3FB, UP: ~32B |
18:18:14 | * | amiconn is away now |
18:21:25 | | Quit lImbus () |
18:48:36 | | Join hardeep [0] (1098@208.247.65.237) |
19:00 |
19:12:27 | amiconn | back |
19:27:59 | | Join midk [0] (Zakk@c-67-160-88-198.client.comcast.net) |
19:52:04 | | Join usaswang [0] (usaswang@pcp01283953pcs.hlcrs201.al.comcast.net) |
19:52:41 | usaswang | hey all. what problem does "error accessing playlist control file" refer to? |
19:53:43 | midk | you haven't used rockbox before i think |
19:53:49 | midk | it will go away after you play a song |
19:54:46 | usaswang | hmm... |
19:55:01 | usaswang | ok...i guess you mean individually |
19:55:18 | usaswang | because i have only clicked on playlists |
19:58:02 | midk | indivvidually, yes |
19:59:32 | | Join Bagder [0] (~daniel@c25025a.hud.bostream.se) |
19:59:57 | amiconn | hi Bagder |
20:00 |
20:00:04 | Bagder | hi |
20:00:11 | midk | hi capitain |
20:01:06 | amiconn | Bagder: http://rockbox.haxx.se/voice/ still there!? |
20:01:09 | usaswang | still does it |
20:01:18 | usaswang | no matter what i click on song or playlist |
20:01:18 | Bagder | yes |
20:01:18 | midk | usaswang, hmm, ask bagder then |
20:01:42 | usaswang | you have a clue badger, why rock box says "error accessing playlist control file" |
20:01:47 | usaswang | every song or playlist i click on |
20:01:55 | usaswang | it plays the song after |
20:01:57 | Bagder | usaswang: do you have a .rockbox dir? |
20:01:59 | usaswang | but the error comes up |
20:02:09 | usaswang | hmmm not on my player |
20:02:16 | Bagder | then create on |
20:02:18 | Bagder | one |
20:02:22 | usaswang | i just copied the .ajz |
20:02:26 | usaswang | to my root |
20:02:29 | Bagder | unzip the zip instead |
20:02:33 | Bagder | it makes a proper install |
20:02:53 | usaswang | the os needs that dir and all the files? |
20:03:08 | Bagder | as you can see, it doesn't _need_ them |
20:03:18 | usaswang | ya they are for "features" |
20:03:20 | usaswang | hehe |
20:03:20 | Bagder | but you'll get a better rockbox |
20:03:40 | usaswang | i get it now |
20:04:34 | usaswang | thanks |
20:06:22 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
20:07:44 | | Quit usaswang () |
20:29:02 | | Join zaser [0] (jirc@206.72.70.30) |
20:29:02 | | Quit Nibbler (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
20:30:27 | zaser | hello |
20:30:34 | Bagder | hi |
20:30:59 | zaser | I need help on my jukebox recorder v2 |
20:31:57 | Bagder | yes? |
20:32:41 | zaser | where can i get the original boot-up files for it, i deleted the original ones and now it won't boot up |
20:33:16 | Bagder | you flashed it? |
20:34:52 | zaser | no, i put on the rockbox firmware, and deleted the rockbox dirrectory along with the rockbox-2.2.tar.gz |
20:35:31 | Bagder | and the ajbrec.ajz? |
20:35:44 | zaser | now it wont boot up all the way, the only way i get access to the HDD is by connecting it to a computer through IDE |
20:36:18 | zaser | the only thing i have in the recorder is the mp3s |
20:37:09 | Bagder | and the battery is charged? |
20:37:46 | zaser | i drained and charged it twice, i just got it brand new a month ago |
20:38:08 | Bagder | removing rockbox should make it boot the archos original firmware |
20:38:13 | Bagder | what happens when you start it? |
20:38:20 | Bagder | what does it display on the screen? |
20:39:15 | zaser | it comes up with the recorder booting screen and the status bar gets half way only and stops completely |
20:40:52 | Bagder | can you hear the disk spinup? |
20:42:20 | zaser | yes |
20:43:00 | Bagder | I don't know what else it can be |
20:43:07 | Bagder | tried scandisk it? |
20:43:13 | | Quit pfavr ("ChatZilla 0.9.52B [Mozilla rv:1.6/1]") |
20:47:34 | zaser | are there any boot files in the HDD at all, original ones i mean |
20:52:11 | Bagder | not necessarily |
20:52:18 | Bagder | its in rom |
20:52:51 | Bagder | that is, it uses its built-in version if there's no available on disk |
20:53:28 | zaser | im going to try to reformat the drive, what do you think |
20:53:39 | Bagder | that would be a good idea |
20:54:27 | zaser | what else could be causing the problem |
20:55:06 | Bagder | I don't know |
20:55:23 | Bagder | it sounds as if it gets stuck when it checks for a firmware on disk |
20:55:43 | Bagder | but I don't know |
20:57:31 | zaser | it happened after i plugged some speakers into the box |
21:00 |
21:10:20 | Bagder | I suggest you write down all the details and post a mail to the mailing list |
21:12:54 | zaser | could it somehow messed up the ROM bios |
21:13:22 | Bagder | not really |
21:14:14 | zaser | somehow it got short circuited and reach the ROM chip and messed up the data |
21:14:45 | Bagder | not likely, it is then more likely that it ruined some other circuit |
21:15:17 | | Join silencer [0] (~silencer@dyn-213-36-24-46.ppp.tiscali.fr) |
21:17:00 | amiconn | Bagder, Zagor: I consider splitting up the grayscale lib into a core and many little files, mostly containing a single function, in order to link only those functions to the plugins that are actually used. |
21:17:27 | Bagder | good idea |
21:17:46 | amiconn | Is there a reason why this wouldn't be wise/ desired? This would become quite a number of files, though (estimation: 28) |
21:19:33 | Bagder | only that it'll be lot more files to organize |
21:19:47 | amiconn | I would prefix all source files belonging to the grayscale lib with gray_. The header will most likely stay a single file, gray.h |
21:20:15 | Bagder | sounds good |
21:20:48 | Bagder | if it turns out like too many files, we could make a separate gray lib |
21:21:20 | amiconn | I wonder if I should reuse "gray.c", which now conatins the whole thing, to become the core, or use "gray_core.c" instead. |
21:21:37 | amiconn | *contains |
21:32:36 | zaser | reformating and running scandisk on the hard drive didn't work |
21:35:23 | midk | try putting archos' ajbrec.ajz on the drive? |
21:36:50 | midk | http://archos.com/download/firmware/ajbrec_v127d.zip |
21:37:54 | | Quit mecraw ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)") |
21:37:57 | midk | oh, zagor or bagder, is recording done by the MAS only? |
21:38:58 | zaser | the only good news about this whole ordeal is that by opening the jukebox, i found out that i actually have an fm recorder not just a recorder |
21:39:27 | midk | wait |
21:39:29 | midk | v2 recorder? |
21:39:39 | zaser | yeah |
21:39:53 | midk | http://archos.com/download/firmware/ajbrec.ajz |
21:39:58 | midk | put that in the root of the drive and try and boot it |
21:40:05 | zaser | but the board on the recorder is actually an fm recoder |
21:40:31 | zaser | i tried that once, but probably after reformating it'll work |
21:40:38 | midk | try it again |
21:46:35 | zaser | that didn't work either |
21:51:33 | zaser | will it work with any laptop drive |
21:54:29 | midk | should, yes |
22:00 |
22:05:40 | zaser | tried another hard drive didn't work |
22:06:03 | Bagder | it sounds like you have hw problems |
22:06:03 | midk | hmm... |
22:06:07 | midk | yeh must be |
22:06:11 | zaser | running out of ideas, even though i had no ideas to begin with |
22:06:26 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
22:07:06 | zaser | any suggestions |
22:07:55 | Bagder | again: I suggest you write down all the details and post a mail to the mailing list |
22:08:26 | | Join nerochiaro [0] (~nerochiar@213.203.164.174) |
22:09:16 | | Part nerochiaro |
22:10:07 | | Join Nibbler [0] (nibbler@port-212-202-73-96.dynamic.qsc.de) |
22:17:34 | silencer | no link with rockboxx, but is there someone who have a browser else than IE6, Mozilla, Firefox, Opera, Netscape, Konqueror, w3m or lynx ? |
22:17:56 | ze | i've got links |
22:18:00 | ze | heh |
22:18:10 | silencer | well, and links ;) |
22:18:26 | silencer | (i'm looking for a graphic browser) |
22:18:40 | ze | links is a graphic browser sorta isn't it? except not the way i have it setup anyway so heh |
22:18:54 | silencer | (i'm trying to test a CSS menu overs all platforms) |
22:18:58 | silencer | hehe :) |
22:19:15 | ze | i see |
22:19:29 | silencer | not an easy stuff ... |
22:19:43 | ze | isn't there a page somewhere |
22:19:58 | ze | that runs the mac os x browser on a url you specify and give you a screenshot? |
22:20:10 | silencer | oh really ? |
22:20:11 | ze | i guess that doesn't necessarily help though |
22:20:24 | ze | but if it can show you what you wanna see, i guess it might |
22:20:30 | ze | i don't have the url on hand though |
22:20:47 | silencer | well, thx, i didn't know the existence of such a tool |
22:21:06 | ze | yeah maybe you can find it on google or something |
22:21:18 | ze | i think it was mentioned in here, so you might even find it in the logs |
22:21:28 | silencer | right |
22:21:32 | silencer | nice! |
22:25:09 | midk | hi ze. |
22:27:15 | midk | ZEE |
22:44:46 | | Quit Nibbler (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
23:00 |
23:00:39 | | Join mecraw [0] (~mecraw@69.2.235.2) |
23:05:14 | | Quit zaser (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
23:18:52 | | Quit Bagder ("Leaving") |
23:25:28 | | Quit silencer ("Lost terminal") |
23:29:11 | | Join arspy87 [0] (~arspy87@h00062598fa3b.ne.client2.attbi.com) |
23:29:17 | arspy87 | Zagor? |