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#rockbox log for 2004-07-04

00:00:07uski85145(you should be able to do so but..)
00:01:13[IDC]Dragonshould work
00:01:28uski85145what ?
00:01:32uski85145what should work ? :)
00:01:51[IDC]Dragonmy recovery
00:01:53uski85145lemme try doing some soldering joints again
00:01:56uski85145just to be sure
00:02:17*[IDC]Dragon digs out the old cables
00:07:41[IDC]Dragonok, rockbox download works
00:08:09uski85145so i have a bigger problem !
00:08:22*[IDC]Dragon dumps the flash for later restore
00:09:38uski85145what if my hardware doesn't allow in circuit prograzmming ?
00:09:49[IDC]Dragonit does, hang on
00:10:00[IDC]Dragonneed a zero file now
00:10:07uski85145i can send u one lol
00:13:40[IDC]Dragongot one now
00:13:53[IDC]Dragon(probably it would compress very well)
00:14:10uski85145lol y
00:14:25uski85145512kb => 20b
00:14:57midkthat will return true.
00:15:00uski85145compressed 26214 times
00:15:08uski85145nah i mean
00:15:14uski85145512kbytes "compressed to" 20bytes
00:15:26[IDC]Dragonflashing the zeroes...
00:15:34uski85145if it returns false, there is a serious bug in your compiler :)
00:15:49uski85145[IDC]Dragon i hope there is no bug somewhere that prevent reflashing when the content is 0x00 ! :]
00:16:14[IDC]Dragondon't think so
00:16:22uski85145neither do i
00:16:38uski85145(i read ur code again and again ;) trying to understand why my setup could fail)
00:16:46[IDC]Dragonif the IDs doesn't come out, there is something really wrong
00:16:52uski85145(and i still don't understand)
00:17:18uski85145> "idea" <
00:17:31uski85145i hope i didn't fry anything when i made my mistake with the uart boot
00:17:41uski85145when i connected the common of the resistor network to some pin
00:17:51uski85145theorically, i couldn't have fried anything
00:18:03uski85145as there was 10k resistors between this pin and the others
00:18:05uski85145but who knows
00:18:08uski85145maybe it's that
00:18:25[IDC]Dragonvery unlikely
00:18:29uski85145yea :)
00:18:48[IDC]Dragonwhen I said "don't pulltoo hard" I thought you drive the other end
00:18:48 Join amiconn [0] (
00:19:02amiconnHi Jörg
00:19:02uski85145hi amiconn
00:19:04[IDC]DragonOK, my box is blank now
00:19:09[IDC]Dragonhi Jens
00:19:10uski85145[IDC]Dragon as mine ;)
00:19:16amiconnhi uski
00:19:26uski85145ooo, he told me "hi" \o/
00:19:33webmindhi amiconn
00:20:11[IDC]Dragondownloading Rockbox
00:20:30*uski85145 is hopping it will not work, because if it does it means that i do have a serious problem
00:20:47[IDC]Dragonit woks, but the display contrast is way off
00:21:09[IDC]Dragonand it gives me an ATA error
00:21:11uski85145wtf is wrong with my box
00:21:17uski85145probably because of the mask
00:21:23[IDC]Dragonprobably because of wrong polarity
00:21:25uski85145btw u did it with or without hdd ?
00:21:30uski85145i did it without the hard drive
00:21:41uski85145i don't think it may be a problem ?
00:21:46[IDC]Dragonhaven't dissected it
00:21:48uski85145it should tell me "HDD error"
00:21:53uski85145ok i try with then
00:21:58[IDC]Dragonyes, something like that
00:22:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:22:19[IDC]DragonI have flashed FMs with just the bare board, it works
00:22:23uski85145yea sth like "can't find this god damn hard drive"
00:22:41[IDC]Dragonnow I want my flash content back...
00:23:03uski85145reflash it :)
00:23:19uski85145ur lucky, YOU can do it... ;)
00:24:05[IDC]Dragonhave you tries looking for the /CS pin ?
00:24:14uski85145it's on the wrong side of the board :\
00:24:23uski85145quite hard to locate a via with this signal
00:24:30uski85145perhaps my SST39 stock is bad
00:24:50uski85145but i have no way to test
00:25:03[IDC]Dragonmy box is back to normal
00:26:19[IDC]DragonI wonder why the Rockbox download didn't work for you
00:26:36uski85145wait i try again
00:26:39uski85145"just to be sure"
00:27:53uski85145does not work. :\
00:27:58uski85145it should at least start the backlight
00:28:00uski85145it does not
00:28:09uski85145(starts to be worrying :))
00:28:27[IDC]Dragonhow does your old flash look?
00:28:37uski85145ok to be put in the box again
00:28:41[IDC]Dragoncan you resolder it easily?
00:28:46uski85145i will do that
00:28:54uski85145lemme fire up the hot air thingy
00:34:15[IDC]DragonJens, looks like we should enable you fast ATA
00:36:28amiconnYes, maybe we could do this, although I still hope that at least one of the 2 other users who experienced file system corruption back in February would also do the test to confirm the test results.
00:40:55uski85145ok, flash chip "restored"
00:40:57uski85145now i have to test
00:41:00uski85145i hope it works
00:41:08uski85145if it doesn't, i'll remove all my mods and i'll send it for warranty :\
00:41:20uski85145with a bit of luck they'll send me a unit with a SST39
00:41:29midkthey probably will.
00:41:51midkeven if it does work... drop it out of a window then send it back.. so you can be able to flash.
00:42:15uski85145i get manufacturer and device id = 0x90
00:42:26uski85145i dont like that at all
00:42:44uski85145no what ?
00:43:13[IDC]Dragonno like
00:43:22uski85145ok :(
00:43:31*[IDC]Dragon no like that
00:43:59uski85145guess what is the dump ?
00:44:02midkumm... jk? LD
00:44:03uski85145a file full of zeroes ;)
00:44:05[IDC]Dragon(arabian english)
00:44:10uski85145damn, what's that
00:44:21uski85145there is only thing i didn't resolder
00:44:28uski85145the two green wires
00:44:33uski85145that are next to the batteries
00:44:43uski85145but i don't think it comes from here, they seems to be audio lines
00:44:52[IDC]Dragonthe wires to the line in?
00:45:17[IDC]Dragonso you don't use the jack to connet RS232
00:45:29uski85145i added 3 wires, RX TX GND
00:45:46uski85145god damn
00:45:49midkjust send it back. things will get better.
00:45:50uski85145i even cahnged the led for the backlight
00:45:56midkooh really.
00:45:57uski85145and my green led is not green anymore ;)
00:46:02[IDC]Dragonsomehow your bus is messed up
00:46:13uski85145i'll let the backlight leds
00:46:17uski85145but i'll put back green and red leds
00:46:30uski85145also i'll leave the garbled flash so it will blink
00:46:35[IDC]Dragonc'mon, this has nothing to do with it
00:46:35uski85145i'll tell them "it doesn't boot anymore"
00:46:36uski85145and voiula
00:46:46uski85145with a bit of luck my reseller won't even send it back to archos
00:46:48uski85145i have a special warranty
00:46:57uski85145they give me a coupon of the same value of the arcohs
00:47:02uski85145if it fails during the first year
00:47:08uski85145and i have until october to remove my mods ;)
00:47:10uski85145should be ok
00:47:10[IDC]Dragonwith current stock, you'll get your money back and have no Archos
00:47:23uski85145yea but what else to do ? loose money ? ;)
00:47:39[IDC]Dragonno Archos is worse
00:47:40uski85145i think it's the end of the rockbox story for me
00:48:10uski85145me too
00:48:19uski85145i do NOPT understand what happened
00:48:22[IDC]Dragonc'mon, fix it
00:48:30uski85145i really have good experience and hardware
00:48:36uski85145ESD safe and so on
00:48:42[IDC]DragonI know that feeling
00:48:52[IDC]Dragonhad that with your player
00:49:16uski85145blah :)
00:49:40uski85145it seems i have no luck with arcohses
00:49:49uski85145a player = not flashable + problems at your side
00:49:54[IDC]Dragoncheck the bus while reading the flash
00:49:58uski85145a recorder = not flashable + a weird problem
00:50:10uski85145the data pins are also present on the SRAM, right ?
00:50:14uski85145DRAM i mean
00:50:14[IDC]Dragonwit the scope
00:50:20*uski85145 powersq up the scope
00:50:39[IDC]Dragonbut I need to sleep now
00:50:43uski85145i saw 0 moves on the dram last time i checkec
00:50:47uski85145but i'll check again
00:50:55uski85145perhaps the temperature of the hot air station
00:51:00uski85145erases the flash to 0 K?
00:51:03uski85145who knows
00:51:09uski85145it must go to 250°C
00:51:12uski85145hmm no
00:51:19uski85145archos program the chips externally
00:51:28uski85145so it shouldn't be a problem as they must be using reflow soldering
00:53:41[IDC]Dragonand good luck
00:53:42uski85145good nite
00:53:45uski85145last question
00:53:51uski85145does the SH1 can run without externazl memory ?
00:53:58uski85145if so, maybe it's running in this mode
00:54:07[IDC]Dragonit can
00:54:24uski85145for al
00:54:26[IDC]Dragonlike it does when running the uart boot
00:54:37uski85145where do u load the minimon ?
00:54:41uski85145external dram or internal space ?
00:54:44[IDC]Dragonto IRAM
00:54:51uski85145hmm !
00:54:59uski85145i'll try to invest this tomorrow
00:55:06uski85145now, just some more tests then sleeping ;)
00:55:44 Quit [IDC]Dragon ()
00:59:19uski85145to keep the IRC logs up to date with my situation:
00:59:23uski85145no activity on data pins
00:59:27uski85145on the DRAM
00:59:42uski85145if they are shared with the FLASH data pins, it means the flash is sending nothing
00:59:55uski85145either the Chip Select is faultly
01:00:03uski85145either there is a powezr supply problem or so
01:00:06uski85145i'll see tomorrow
01:00:11uski85145see u all
01:00:13uski85145gtg to bed
01:00:34midkdrop out of window
01:00:38uski85145nah ;)
01:00:58midkok seeya
01:01:04uski85145last question
01:01:10uski85145what's this player who stolen rockbox code ?
01:01:13uski85145neoxeo or so ?
01:01:17uski85145i can't remember the name
01:01:20uski85145perhaps it's the solution for me
01:01:25midknot sure if its stolen
01:01:28midksounds like it though
01:01:38midkumm.. it was on last month's mailinglist iirc.
01:01:41midkor the month before
01:01:52 Join Nibbler [0] (
01:03:11uski85145ah i remember
01:04:00amiconnuski: If there is no activity on the data pins of the DRAM, then there is no activity on the data bus at all (if I read the schematics correctly)
01:04:07midki thought you meant the closed source player that has all sorts of rockboxlike games on it
01:04:10midktetris, othelo etc.
01:06:11uski85145amiconn: yea
01:06:18uski85145pretty annoying :)
01:06:30uski85145i have to find the CS pin of the flash chip somewhere on the back on the main board
01:06:44amiconnI wonder why this could be... I don't think that you shorted the whole bus without noticing that...
01:06:46uski85145i have to be sure that the flash is accessed
01:06:55uski85145i don't think so too :)
01:07:09uski85145maybe the SH1 is running in "internal memories" mode
01:07:16uski85145perhaps there is a pin somewhere that setups this mode
01:07:20uski85145like on the 68HC11
01:07:22amiconnIs it possible to measure directly at the cpu pins (don't know the layout atm)
01:07:28uski85145there was 2 pins to setup the boot mode if i remember
01:07:40uski85145i have the cpu on the correct side of the board
01:07:47uski85145lemme take the pinout
01:08:07*amiconn is looking up the SH1 manual for the boot mode pins...
01:08:27uski85145in the meantime i'll check on the cpu
01:11:05uski85145it's like the SH1 is killed
01:11:14uski85145nothing on the AD0-15 pins
01:11:48uski85145the Adresse only pins _are_ "moving"
01:13:47amiconnHmm, that doesn't sound good.
01:14:02uski85145and all the CS lines are UP !
01:14:08uski85145pretty strange
01:14:10midkwhy wasn't tetris renamed to roxxbloxx
01:14:29amiconnI've looked up the modes - these do only deal with the memory area 0 (usually internal rom in our boxes = mode 2)
01:14:57amiconnThe external rom is connected to CS2 (memory area 2), which is always external
01:15:06uski85145ok, ty
01:17:03uski85145CS2 went down
01:17:18uski85145too bad i don't have some logical analyzer
01:17:26uski85145but even if i had one i don't see how i could connect it
01:18:16uski85145what's happeing is very strange
01:18:23uski85145CS2 goes low very shortly
01:18:25uski85145fat not enough
01:18:39uski85145it's like "low spikes"
01:19:09amiconnSo if I understand correctly you get the following: cpu clock is there, address lines show activity, but none of the data lines?
01:19:32uski85145and the chip selects are high, excepted CS2 which goes down intermitently (sp?)
01:20:34amiconnThis is strange indeed - either the cpu is captured in a loop in the internal rom area, or something is fried or shorted.
01:21:50amiconnIf I understand the serial + uart boot thingy correctly, there _is_ some loop in the internal rom, that polls the serial if the lcd lines are pulled low.
01:22:27uski85145i did the uart boot mod
01:22:38uski85145the firmware in the internal rom of the SH1 waits for some code from the UART
01:22:40uski85145and then it runs it
01:22:45uski85145i haver the proof that it is running
01:22:52uski85145because i was able to make the red led bliunk with this
01:23:05uski85145also, the activity on the addr lines are here only if i choose to do some memory operations
01:23:10uski85145so it's running, and correctly
01:23:27uski85145(the CS2 activity seems to be normal, i think i was wrong saying it was not)
01:23:38uski85145perhaps the flash is actually empty
01:23:42uski85145i would need a "DRAM test"
01:23:52uski85145like putting 0xAA 0x55 everywhere and then reading it back
01:24:04uski85145i'll ask [idc]dragon tomorrow, perhaps he can code something like that quickly
01:24:58uski85145hmmm it's very strange
01:25:03uski85145i have activity on data lines
01:25:09uski85145when i send data from the SH1
01:25:16uski85145it's when i read back from the flash that it does not work
01:25:27uski85145so, it seems that there is a problem with the flash "area" of the CPU board
01:25:42amiconnThen check the /rd signal, both at the cpu and at the rom.
01:26:41 Join kotic [0] (
01:27:31uski85145when reading i get:
01:27:39uski85145/WRL down
01:27:43uski85145/WRH down
01:27:47uski85145/RD down
01:27:50uski85145/BACK high
01:29:07uski85145same when writing ?
01:29:09amiconnAt the CPU I guess (since you mentoin /WRL and WRH)
01:29:38amiconnDid you check /rd at the ROM?
01:29:46uski85145the problem with the roim
01:29:56uski85145is that it is on the internal side of the cpu board
01:29:59uski85145so i can't access it easilty
01:30:30uski85145however i could check with a continuity tester if it is correctly connected
01:30:36 Join dstar5 [0] (
01:31:21amiconnuski: Perhaps you should do that ... maybe that it is not connected properly ... then of course you cannot read back anything
01:31:38uski85145if it's that
01:31:44uski85145you're great :)
01:31:56amiconnIt could even be that your sst39xxx is correctly flashed... weird
01:32:54amiconn(possibly not, since the flash routine writes the data, holds it for some time, then compares. It would only program empty cells iirc)
01:33:26uski85145are you sure of that ?
01:33:35uski85145jorg didn't tell me it was auto-verified
01:33:54uski85145(joerg, jörg, but not jorg ;))
01:35:27amiconnI don't know if it is verified by the minimon thingy, maybe it simply uses the maximum write time. The flash plugins definitely do so.
01:36:03uski85145no direct connection betwen flash /OE and CPU
01:36:21uski85145(/OE = /RD but i think u know it)
01:36:38uski85145perhaps it's generated by another component ?
01:37:02 Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:38:16uski85145unfortunately... it's connected to /RD
01:38:26uski85145i wasn't able to catch /RD going low
01:38:30uski85145lemme try again
01:38:47amiconnIf I read the schematics correctly, pin 32 of the ROM (/OE), pin 30 of the DRAM (/OE) and pin 64 of the CPU (PA6_/RD) should all be connected
01:39:35uski85145they are here
01:39:45uski85145lool im working on the desk of a relative
01:40:01uski85145tomorrow he'll find: an oscilloscope, a disassembled archos, and many other thingies
01:40:23 Quit dstar5 ("Client exiting")
01:40:46amiconnWhile you are at it: check the /cs connection too
01:42:05uski85145/RS is stuck low
01:42:12uski85145/RD i meant
01:42:13amiconnAnd (if possible) Vdd / Vss at the rom
01:42:52uski85145/RD should go high
01:43:00uski85145it's not normal that it stays always down
01:43:20amiconnHmm, strange. How could it go high then, as you measured earlier (at the CPU)
01:43:35uski85145[01:27] <uski85145> /WRL down
01:43:35uski85145[01:27] <uski85145> /WRH down
01:43:35uski85145[01:27] <uski85145> /RD down
01:43:35DBUGEnqueued KICK uski85145
01:43:35uski85145[01:27] <uski85145> /BACK high
01:43:41uski85145down :\
01:43:58uski85145(im starting to be very tired so i prefer to check back what i wrote before ;))
01:44:43uski85145no short between GND and /RD
01:44:59uski85145i think the problem is here
01:46:10uski85145i'll see tomorrow
01:46:32uski85145see ya
01:46:32amiconnOkay. I shouild get some sleep now too.
01:46:46uski85145where do u live ?
01:46:55uski85145ok as joerg
01:47:00uski85145see ya
01:47:19 Part amiconn
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01:53:05 Part BlueChip
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02:12:54 Part scott666_
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04:18:44midkhi bc
04:18:49BlueChiphi all
04:18:59midkbc have you tried my clock yet?
04:19:07BlueChipno, you tried my new gui yet?
04:19:13midkyou never mentioned it.;
04:19:22BlueChiplol - finished today
04:19:30midkfor win32 sim?
04:19:34BlueChipmeet u on aim to trade source
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05:37:09 Quit BlueChip ("For The Latest Rockbox DevKit AND Advanced Plugins Visit")
05:49:31cytoxicwow, BlueChip is good with a deck of cards ;)
05:49:46midkhaha, yes.
05:49:51midkhe admitted he is a dog today
05:50:18midki asked if he made his master do the tricks - he says no, they are fake human hands from the doggy joke shop..
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15:56:58 Join eightbit [0] (
15:57:24eightbitim curious about some archos stuff...
16:00:05eightbitwell, mostly about the new av300 and av400s
16:00:09 Join bipak_ [0] (
16:04:25 Join Treyqae [0] (
16:04:48eightbitis anyone here
16:04:57Treyqaei am here
16:05:04eightbithello trey
16:05:13eightbitdo you own archos stuff?
16:05:18Treyqaehi eightbit
16:05:39eightbiti own a studio20 and rec20
16:05:48eightbiti was thinking about getting an av340
16:05:49TreyqaeI have gmini
16:06:09eightbitwhats good about the gmini?
16:07:00TreyqaeI kind of like it. Portable harddrive and MP3 player
16:07:29eightbitever seen an av340 before? i wonder if they are worth the money
16:07:31Treyqaegot it yesterday, though :)
16:08:03Treyqaeno, sorry. Haven't had a chance to play with an av340
16:08:12eightbiti like my recorder20. especially since it uses AA batteries
16:08:38eightbiti was thinking about gettin a av340 so i could encode Da Ali G off cable. and Mr. Show.
16:09:10eightbitD Ali G has a special on right now, that he made for HBO. its hilarious. Has Borat and Borus too.
16:10:18TreyqaeMmmh. The AV340 is $470 at amazom
16:10:42eightbitthere was one for 370 on ebay just now. it sold for 370.
16:11:04eightbitthe guy selling it had 100percent positive feedback. and it came with lots of extra stuff.
16:11:31 Join Trillianer [0] (
16:11:35Treyqaeyou could alway go to a circuit city, play with it and return it if you don't like
16:12:33eightbithaha. i thought they went bankrupt
16:12:59eightbiti really need to encode some of this stuff, but i dont know if 320x240 and 25 fps is good enough.
16:13:09eightbiti mean, doesnt that resolution suck... really bad?
16:13:40TreyqaeYes, it does. Is that how it plays back or how it encodes?
16:13:45eightbiti cant remember ... plus the archos encodes it differently, apparently.
16:14:04eightbitit plays high res. but records at ...320x240 or something like that
16:14:23eightbiti wish i could see an example of its recordings, firsthand
16:14:27Treyqaeit might be ok for TV, though
16:14:54TreyqaeI am telling you, go to CC, get one and try it. If you are happy, keep it or return it and get one from eBay
16:15:02eightbitwell, my buddy has that digital cable stuff where you can play the programfeed anytime you want, and rewind or fastforward.
16:15:19eightbitbecause his roommate works for the digital sattelite company or something. he gets all programs.
16:15:38eightbitthats a good idea trey, might have to do it
16:15:48eightbitis this the first archos product u own... the gmini?
16:15:55TreyqaeOne possible problem might HDTV content
16:16:05Treyqaemight be HDTV
16:18:21eightbitwell, with this digital you can select if you want widescreen or normal format
16:18:31Treyqaerecording resolution of the AV340 might not be OK for when Hi Def TV becomes more mainstream
16:18:53eightbiteverythings moving to widescreen?
16:19:38eightbitwaitwait. hdtv is something like widescreen. i see
16:20:02eightbitim slow. sorry
16:20:05TreyqaeYou can always scale down, at the cost of quality.
16:20:59TreyqaeMy understanding of HDTV is that it offers higher resolutions for both 16:9 and 4:3
16:21:35Treyqaejust found this:
16:22:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:23:06eightbitthis is all kinda funny, because im going blind and deaf
16:23:27eightbiti could watch an 8mm film and not know the difference
16:25:11eightbitduuhhh.. you know the differnce between a av320, av340, and av380
16:26:18Treyqae"...The AV340 is identical except that it has a 40GB hard-drive and costs a bit more..." (,1583,a=45221,00.asp)
16:26:19eightbityeah i just figured that out.
16:26:46eightbit..from reading. i wish archos made that more clear. their websites not too clear.
16:26:54 Part Trillianer
16:27:18TreyqaeIt can do 640x272 @ 25f/s
16:28:20Treyqaethe lcd is 320x240
16:29:05eightbitis 640x272 good enough? i wish i had a file like that to view.
16:29:40eightbiti wonder how hard it would be to jimmy a new harddrive into an av340
16:29:47eightbitlike a 120 gig hd
16:30:22TreyqaeIf you have a TV it should be OK. If you are using a projector 320x240 may suck if you are used to 800x600, but it might be worth a try
16:30:59eightbityeah i guess thats pretty good, all things considred. maybe better than video?
16:31:24TreyqaeWell, it's digital, should be better than analog VHS.
16:31:50TreyqaeVHS = TV resolution?
16:32:24eightbiti dont know
16:32:33eightbitwhat did you own before you had a gmini
16:33:24Treyqaenothing. Well, except for a first gen MP3 CD player, cost me like $300 a couple of years ago. It sucks :)
16:33:56eightbitcds suck. esp mp3s
16:34:03eightbiti had a studio20 about three years ago i think
16:34:08eightbitlove that thing. really awesome
16:34:18eightbitgot a recorder20, its the best
16:34:33eightbitthis week im going to pop a 40gig into it
16:34:50Treyqaehow much are the 40GB HDs?
16:35:08eightbitgot mine really cheap.
16:35:18eightbitcant remember
16:35:36Treyqaebrb, sorry
16:37:36eightbittell me when you get back
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16:41:36TreyqaeThe recorder 20 seems to be slighly more expensive than the gmini 120. do you know why?
16:43:30uskiwhere do u find recorders 20 for sale ?
16:43:48eightbiti got mine from ebay. 80 bucks
16:44:25eightbitits great, because they dont break. i mean, really. unless its crushed and smashed, you can fix it. just get new batteries.
16:44:45eightbitand if the harddrive is busted, get a new 60 gig for a hundred bucks. its worth the investment
16:44:53Treyqae80 bucks isn't bad
16:45:26eightbit80 bucks is great. the seller said it was broken, so i got it, ran scandisk. works great now.
16:45:47Treyqaegood job
16:46:02eightbitive had lots of problems with the studio20. the answer is always - get new batteries. costs ya $8 for some new AA 2000mah
16:46:15 Part alindeman_ ("/part")
16:46:20eightbitsomeone was selling a studio10 on ebay for $65 yesterday
16:46:48Treyqaei see
16:47:02eightbitrecorder20s usually go for about $120 nowadays
16:47:15eightbithow much is the gmini?
16:47:34Treyqae~ $200 new
16:48:01eightbitbeats the hell out of ipod, thats for sure
16:48:28Treyqaeyes. Supports wav and mp3 recording
16:48:43eightbitwhat bitrates for mp3 recording?
16:49:32eightbitif you love music, the archos will change your life. it will become your new best friend
16:49:57eightbitthe recorder20 is great because its got two things: pixelated screen and AA nimhs.
16:50:12eightbitthe only thing its missing is a vagina, then i'd be set with no worries.
16:50:38Treyqaeline in, max: 192kbit/s, mic, max:112kbit/s
16:50:52eightbitbut alas, no. still gotta work on that ass though. steal her away from her boyfriend. it can be done.
16:51:11eightbittrey do you encode mp3s
16:51:16eightbiton your PC?
16:52:15eightbitwhat do you use
16:53:08eightbitto encode cds.
16:53:32eightbityou got a 40gb or 20gb gmini?
16:53:47Treyqaethe 20gb
16:53:56eightbithow much of that have you used up
16:54:46Treyqaenot a lot.
16:55:30eightbiti got audiograbber 1.8 with lame vbr encoder
16:55:41eightbitits great. really all i need. i recommend it
16:56:10eightbitwith a amd 2600 processor you can encode a CD in about 13 minutes
16:56:16Treyqaeok. I will give it try some time.
16:56:57Treyqaewhere do you buy harddrives? eBay?
16:57:08eightbityeah i have to go back and encode stuff at vbr. becuase the old mp3 players (like the CD ones) only played cbr
16:57:23eightbityeah thats where i get it. ebays good, if you are careful who you buy from.
16:57:40eightbitbiggest rip off i ever had was from BEST BUY
16:57:46TreyqaeI think mine does play back VBR but gets confused
16:57:59Treyqaehow so?
16:58:10eightbitbought a $200 monitor and it broke 3 weeks later. called them up.. "hey my monitors messed up"..
16:58:29eightbitthe guy replied "oh is it an ECS monitor?"
16:58:39eightbitthat really pissed me off. cause thats why they were on sale.
16:58:55eightbitand thats why best buy has a 2 week guarentee on monitors. 2 weeks.
16:59:25eightbitluckily i fixed the wiring myself. which is dangerous on monitors.
16:59:36Treyqaephew, lucky you.
16:59:41eightbithmm it shouldnt get confused with vbr
17:00:00eightbitwhat does it do? the gmini should have no problems. maybe the file was encoded wrong
17:00:01TreyqaeI meant my old CD MP3 player, not the gmini
17:00:10eightbitoh yeah cds suck
17:00:33eightbitis it possible to manually install a new HD in a gmini?
17:01:31Treyqaenot sure, but i guess so
17:01:47eightbitfour dollars for shipping too. thats a steal
17:02:33eightbitnew 60gb and the guys done 140 transactions at 98%
17:03:09eightbitif youve ever thought about upgrading hd... do it now. hehe
17:03:48Treyqaehehe. I just bought it :)
17:04:01Treyqaethe gmini, i mean
17:04:07eightbitare you going to bid on this?
17:04:08Treyqaenot the HD
17:04:25eightbiti think i might
17:05:11eightbitmmm im high bidder
17:05:14Treyqaeno, i am not even close to filling it up.
17:05:32eightbiti got close to feeling up that girl i was talking about
17:05:43eightbitwait i did feel her up. her boyfriend never knew.
17:06:33eightbithaha. outbid
17:06:42eightbitbut at least i drove the price up $12
17:06:49Treyqaelol. are you r17161?
17:06:56eightbitare you msage?
17:07:06Treyqaei am not bidding
17:07:13eightbitoh ok. i was dog1977
17:07:54eightbit$92 for a 60gig isnt bad.
17:09:17Treyqaeno, sounds good.
17:11:26TreyqaeI gtg. Happy 4th!
17:11:42eightbitsee ya trey. hey trey...
17:11:47eightbitwhere you from anyways?
17:12:03eightbitahh ohk
17:12:13eightbittake it easy. encode VBR with LAME codec ok
17:12:18eightbitim in TN
17:12:19Treyqaeok :)
17:12:24Treyqaesee you
17:12:32 Quit kotic (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:12:33eightbituse Soulseek and get the audiograbber and install the LAME codec
17:12:37 Join cytoxic [0] (
17:12:53 Quit Treyqae ()
17:13:02eightbitguyss i better go too
17:20:25 Quit eightbit ()
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17:38:47 Quit D0gbert (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:38:54 Nick Dogb3rt is now known as D0gbert (
18:00:33 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (
18:01:07[IDC]DragonD0gbert: are you there?
18:08:29D0gbertkind-of ;)
18:08:53[IDC]Dragontell me more about the iRiver ;-)
18:09:24D0gbertthe original firmware is actually a piece of crap, but the hardware is quite good
18:09:52[IDC]Dragondifferent than Archos, where both is crap
18:10:45[IDC]Dragonare there pictures of the inside somewhere?
18:11:07D0gbertthere r two flaws in the design: a) an extra USB chip which provides access to the HDD, and b) bad shielding of the wired remote control
18:11:37[IDC]Dragona) is no disadvantage, I'd say
18:11:55[IDC]Dragondo you have to use the remote?
18:12:51D0gbertwell, it would be easier for us if the main µcontroller, the coldfire would be directly wired to the usb port ;)
18:13:03[IDC]Dragonwhat CPU is exactly in?
18:13:15D0gbertor even scf5249
18:13:20D0gbertsamsung coldfire 5249
18:13:31D0gbertit's a licensed copy of the motorola
18:14:00D0gbertthe CPU is quite versatile
18:14:12[IDC]Dragonis 5249 the actual chip, or just the core?
18:14:50 Join kotic [0] (
18:14:57D0gbertit is the actual chip
18:15:19D0gbertthe core is a coldfire, and there r several additions to that core, e.g. the emac unit
18:15:22 Quit cytoxic (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:15:32CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
18:15:32*[IDC]Dragon is searching for a datasheet
18:17:56[IDC]DragonKonrad wrote you have a simulator?
18:18:12D0gbertyeah, but it's quite shitty and slow
18:18:26D0gbertI used it to dump a RAM image for disassembly
18:19:10[IDC]Dragonspeed won't matter too much, I guess
18:19:46[IDC]DragonI used a simulator as well when I reverse engineered how the Archos starts
18:20:01D0gbertthe core's maximum frequency can be switched to 96.smth MHz
18:20:14[IDC]Dragonbut had no source code for it
18:21:50[IDC]Dragonan own simulator would be an excellent tool to track the firmware
18:22:11[IDC]Dragonespecially if you add the peripherals to that, too
18:22:22 Join dstar5 [0] (
18:22:28[IDC]Dragonwe don't have one for the Archos
18:22:40***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:22:58dstar5a.... what?
18:23:01[IDC]DragonStevie-O started one, but out of a sudden he disappeared
18:23:02D0gbertdebugging the firmware thru the BDM interface should be faster and more efficient though
18:23:26[IDC]Dragondo you have a tool that works with it?
18:23:26 Quit kotic (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:23:33 Join cytoxic [0] (
18:23:44 Quit dstar5 (Client Quit)
18:23:52D0gbertgdb supports it
18:24:10D0gbertand some other commercial products which happen to be on my hdd *cough*
18:25:03D0gbertmetroworks codewarrior and crossware smth
18:25:50D0gbertmotorola includes a so called 'wiggler'-interface to its developement board
18:26:00D0gbertand that's what we r trying to construct
18:26:13[IDC]Dragonthat BDM adapter?
18:27:23[IDC]DragonI don't know BDM. What's the difference to JTAG?
18:27:27D0gbertthere is already a working µclinux-kernel/ucboot for the coldfire
18:27:45D0gbertjtag is for testing the hardware after the production, bdm is for debugging the software
18:27:53[IDC]DragonI know, I wouldn't use that.
18:28:52D0gbertthe good thing about uclinux is that a lot of stuff doesn't need to be done - e.g. process and memory management
18:29:14D0gbertI think so at least ;)
18:29:30[IDC]Dragonthose are not the difficult things, I'd say
18:30:03[IDC]DragonLinux is mostly overblown for embedded devices
18:30:42[IDC]Dragonyou're better of with a compact task switcher that just does the job
18:30:54 Join Konrad [0] (
18:31:00D0gbertlo konrad
18:31:18KonradHi there
18:31:31[IDC]Dragonnow this becomes an iRiver channel?
18:31:48KonradSeem so
18:32:00D0gbertunfriendly overtake :}
18:32:13[IDC]Dragonwhy not friednly?
18:32:21D0gbertjust joking
18:32:53[IDC]DragonI just learned about the iRiver's inside.
18:33:08[IDC]DragonSo far our best candidate was the Xclef
18:33:15KonradAnd what do you think about it
18:33:23D0gbertthe xclef is pretty similiar to the iriver
18:33:31[IDC]Dragonbut this is a very exotic box
18:33:38D0gbertthe koreans are reliable tricksters ;)
18:33:39[IDC]Dragonhard to get
18:34:00[IDC]Dragonand it may disappear from the market sooner than it got there
18:34:48[IDC]Dragonthe components were promising: a coldfire CPU does it all, and the known USB bridge
18:35:01[IDC]DragonNow I learned the iRiver is the same kind
18:35:12[IDC]Dragonis it Korean?
18:35:37[IDC]Dragonthen it would be hard to contact their development
18:35:56[IDC]DragonArchos is french, with german engineering
18:35:57D0gbertthey promised a new firmware for may, and it hasn't been released up to this day ;)
18:36:29D0gbertthe admin of the iriverlounge successful contacted their german agency
18:36:39D0gbertsuccessfully ffs
18:37:02D0gbertin the end, they r not releasing any vital information with an NDA
18:37:47[IDC]DragonNDAs conflict with open source
18:38:12D0gbertso it's up to us
18:38:23D0gbertto find out the dark secrets of the hardware
18:38:41[IDC]Dragonare there any pictures?
18:39:55KonradHow did you findout the schematics of the archos ?
18:40:11[IDC]Dragonthat was before my time
18:40:25[IDC]Dragonwith a continuity tester, I'd say
18:41:12KonradDestructive exploration !
18:41:32[IDC]Dragonno, because of no BGA
18:41:41D0gbertsomebody needs to sacrifice his iHP, I'd say!
18:42:11KonradIf you can find someone
18:42:14[IDC]Dragonis there a 2.5" HD model as well?
18:42:35D0gbertno, only 1.8" HD models are available
18:42:51D0gbertthat makes the iriver as small as an iPod
18:44:01[IDC]Dragonis anything below the LCD?
18:44:17KonradThe LCD-Controller
18:44:47[IDC]Dragonreally? that is usually on the glass.
18:46:14 Quit cytoxic (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:46:16 Join kotic [0] (
18:46:30[IDC]Dragonwhat's the LCD resolution? Does it have grayscales?
18:46:56Konrad160x128 with 4-gray-levels
18:48:02D0gbertI know where the LCD routines are, so in the case that it is absolutely impossible to find out what controller it is, we could maybe use them for identification
18:48:25KonradIt must be a handy-display but we haven't found it yet
18:48:26D0gberttime to fire up IDA again ;)
18:49:01D0gbertthe ipod has a similiar display, similiar in resolution and depth, to be more precise
18:49:07[IDC]Dragonwhat other chips are unknown?
18:50:49Konradthere is a 8-pinner with a number 335401-36
18:51:17KonradU23 to be exact
18:51:26 Join scott666_ [0] (
18:52:43D0gbertthe procedure to write stuff on the lcd screen is at 31045050 in the sdram image
18:54:55Konradfurther there are two 6-pin chips with the print "ZS20"
18:55:24[IDC]Dragonthis few pins, they can't be imortant ;-)
18:56:21KonradIf you think supply and reset logic is not important :)
18:57:07[IDC]Dragonwell, not for the reverse engineering...
18:58:46[IDC]Dragondo you have a wiki or so, where you collect the info found out so far?
18:58:54D0gbertnothing except the board
18:59:19D0gbertbut I've been thinking about creating a CVS, irc chan, board etc
18:59:25[IDC]Dragonyou could use the Rockbox wiki
18:59:51 Quit kotic ("lowlife")
19:02:14D0gbertwhat we need the most besides consoldidated findings about the hardware are qualified ppl
19:02:42 Join [IDC]Dragon2 [0] (
19:02:58[IDC]Dragon2hey, I replicate!
19:04:16[IDC]Dragon2you iRiver has 2 MB of flash, drool!
19:04:28D0gberthave u got my last msg?
19:04:50[IDC]Dragon2guess not
19:04:57D0gbert[19:04] <D0gbert> what we need the most besides consoldidated findings about the hardware are qualified ppl
19:05:26D0gbert^^ I already tried the iriver forums, misticriver and some other boards
19:05:37[IDC]Dragon2don't count on me, I'm busy
19:05:51D0gbertbut besides konrad, me and jürgen, there isn't a single person interested and capable
19:06:01[IDC]Dragon2I just can be interested
19:06:33[IDC]Dragon23 people was enough to get Rockbox off the ground
19:06:48[IDC]Dragon2(the 3 swedish "founders")
19:07:03D0gberthave u read about the $1000 bidding?
19:07:23D0gbertthe rockbox dudes had the advantage that they could tap the signals
19:07:28[IDC]Dragon2yes, I sort of caused it, unwillingly
19:08:05[IDC]Dragon2with my previous answer to NeonJohn
19:08:40[IDC]Dragon2so, you go forth and claim it!
19:09:23D0gbertdamn.. there r too few money loving ppl out there
19:09:43[IDC]Dragon2yep, it doesn't drive me
19:10:11D0gbertit doesn't drive me either :/
19:10:25KonradHow does it come ?
19:10:46[IDC]Dragon2the spare time of one year of your life should be worth more
19:10:59[IDC]Dragon2it isn't payable
19:11:22D0gbertit is to some degree, but it would be much, much more than 1k bucks
19:11:22[IDC]Dragon2but nevertheless, it's a noble offer
19:11:32D0gbertbut that's another topic
19:13:32KonradHow many Rockbox user are currently using the archos hardware ?
19:13:46[IDC]Dragon2hard to say
19:13:58[IDC]Dragon2but we have >500 subscribers
19:14:36[IDC]Dragon2taken that I won't subscribe to the mailing list for every software product I'm using,
19:14:52[IDC]Dragon2there may be thousands of users
19:16:08[IDC]Dragon2Ahem, to precisely answer your question: every Rockbox user has to use the Archos hardware, there is no alternative (yet)
19:16:25KonradThe question is how firm is the connection between Rockbox and the Archos-Player
19:16:50[IDC]Dragon2it's a layered software architecture
19:17:08[IDC]Dragon2with drivers and the application
19:17:33[IDC]Dragon2but we have to admit it's tailored to the Archos' capabilities
19:17:34 Nick midk|bed is now known as midk (
19:18:13[IDC]Dragon2strictly speaking, Rockbox runs on 2 platforms: the player and the recorder
19:19:06D0gbertbut I assume that these platforms don't differ too much from each other
19:19:16[IDC]Dragon2the menus today still look like being made for the player
19:19:59[IDC]Dragon2not too much, yes. Different display (char vs. graphical) and a different mp3 chip
19:20:05KonradBut hardware independency was not an original goal ?
19:20:39[IDC]Dragon2guess not, but we have abstractions.
19:20:44 Quit [IDC]Dragon (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:21:07[IDC]Dragon2it runs on a PC as well, by exchanging the low-level hardware layer
19:21:43[IDC]Dragon2and with many #ifdef SIMULATION for that case
19:21:53D0gbertthe decision what platform we are gonna take has to be made when we are actually able to run code on the ihp
19:22:03KonradThat's a first step
19:22:33[IDC]Dragon2I see no major obstacle if you have that BDM port
19:22:59[IDC]Dragon2how does the firmware loading/unscrambling work?
19:23:25KonradThe BDM is a great tool, especially with real-time debugging
19:23:32D0gberten-/decoding is simple xor-stuff
19:24:04D0gbertsupposedly, there is a hash at the beginning of the firmware file
19:24:38D0gbertwhich 'prevents' unauthorized code from being flashed - but considering what encryption scheme they chose, I think it's easy to reverse-engineer
19:24:40[IDC]Dragon2that can be difficult
19:24:41KonradThe checksum fuse is harder to hack
19:25:06[IDC]Dragon2is such a file automatically flashed?
19:25:24D0gbertno, manually
19:25:29[IDC]Dragon2on theArchos, it just gets loaded th RAM
19:26:09D0gbertyou have to copy it into the root dir of the ihp and then go thru the menus and choose 'firmware upgrade'
19:26:11[IDC]Dragon2so it load and executes, then there is an option to persist it to flash?
19:26:47D0gbertthus the firmware which is actually executed exists only in the flash
19:26:58[IDC]Dragon2so the file won't really get loaded and executed
19:27:04[IDC]Dragon2this is bad
19:27:13D0gbertanother way would be to exploit the firmware somehow
19:27:21 Nick [IDC]Dragon2 is now known as [IDC]Dragon (
19:27:36D0gbertbut I think that it would be hard to create a buffer overflow or smth
19:28:06[IDC]Dragonyou won't get the flashing right in the first go
19:28:09D0gbertthe main 2k/xp exploits have been found by analysing the source code, and that's smth we don't have
19:28:36[IDC]Dragonso you have no good way of running code on it
19:29:00[IDC]Dragonthis was way easier with Archos
19:29:28D0gbertuhm... we could actually flash it with a BDM interface if we find out how the write-enable-pin is wired
19:29:29[IDC]Dragonwhich has a built-in firmware, but checks for an updated on disk
19:29:36KonradIf we have the entrypoint of the flash routine it is very easy with BDM
19:30:10Konradwe save the whole system and can restore this via BDM
19:30:25[IDC]Dragonah, different approach
19:30:41[IDC]Dragonso you have to build it up in the flash
19:31:08[IDC]Dragonwriting your own loader
19:31:16D0gbertyeah, exactly
19:31:23KonradYou need to have a fallback if it does not work
19:31:43[IDC]Dragonmaybe the ihp has some way to execute code from disk, too
19:32:37D0gbertI've found the string 'IMPFLASHBIN' in the firmware file
19:33:00D0gbertbut I think that's just a remainder of the imp firmware from which the ihp firmware has been developed
19:33:51[IDC]Dragonare there more components below the IDE jack?
19:34:07[IDC]Dragonlooks like a raised, 2nd PCB
19:34:59KonradYes, the USB/ATA-Bridge and a few more
19:35:59[IDC]Dragonin the forum, you have been worried about the frequencies on the BDM adapter
19:36:11KonradProbably the 2nd board was checked completely without the player
19:36:29[IDC]Dragonbut a printer port can't be so fast
19:36:46Konradthe 2nd board was designed for USB speed
19:38:24KonradThe BDM port has some realtime features which shows the CPU status in realtime
19:38:52Konradthis could be as fast as 140MHz
19:38:59[IDC]Dragonguess you can't exploit that
19:39:15[IDC]Dragonprinter port is 1-2 MHz
19:39:47KonradNo, we don't use that feature just very limited
19:40:27*[IDC]Dragon looks for the GAL listing
19:40:55KonradThe BDM software needs to know that the CPU has entered the BDM support mode
19:41:28KonradThis is done by decoding a certain state of the status signals
19:42:11KonradAfter that the communication is defined by the speed of the PC-Port
19:42:34[IDC]Dragonthere is no shift register in the GAL, so it's port speed
19:43:00KonradNo, there is a software shift
19:43:40KonradIt's similar to the JTAG wiggler
19:45:10[IDC]DragonI have to leave now, good luck to you guys, and thanks for the introduction.
19:45:34 Quit [IDC]Dragon ()
19:47:30KonradMe too; was a nice talk; bye
19:48:04 Quit D0gbert ("I'm not anti-user, I'm anti-idiot")
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21:39:38elinenbehi there... is anyone here working on the iriver ihp120?
21:39:57scott666_does anyone here have an iriver to work on?
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21:41:34 Join bOiNk [0] (
21:41:47bOiNkhowdy :D
21:42:26bOiNkfirst of all, big thx for you awesome software
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