#rockbox 2004-08-10

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#rockbox log for 2004-08-10

00:00:09	amiconn	Ooops... didn't write about that - my fault
00:00:42	[IDC]Dragon	ok, then I wasn't _that_ superficial
00:01:01	[IDC]Dragon	anyway, gotta go
00:01:07	zeekoe	nice that recording works
00:01:13	zeekoe	bye Dragon
00:01:17	amiconn	The thing is - why the *&%$%§ mas does work correctly shortly after reset if rockbox runs from RAM, but not if it runs from ROM????
00:01:18	*	zeekoe back btw
00:01:38	zeekoe	amiconn: is it needed to reset the mas?
00:01:49	zeekoe	or can rockbox work without it
00:02:21	[IDC]Dragon	I wish you good hunting, goodnight!
00:02:26		Quit [IDC]Dragon ()
00:02:35	amiconn	The mas reset is needed exactly once: at power on. But rockbox does currently reset the MAS everytime it switches between playback and recording mode
00:03:23	amiconn	Why it is done that way - don't ask me, ask Linus
00:03:28	zeekoe	:P
00:03:36	zeekoe	so just remove it :)
00:04:08	amiconn	This is an example where a security measure does the opposite of what it was intended to do....
00:04:19	zeekoe	:)
00:04:20	zeekoe	weird
00:05:11	amiconn	I'll do some more recording test (for example if it produces clean recordings) before committing. I only tested if the recording starts at all u ntil now
00:05:16	zeekoe	it doesn't have something to do with how the mas_reset is built up?
00:07:30	amiconn	The reset itself is simple - assert reset signal, wait a short time (the specs don't tell how long, but derived from the sample application 10 ms should be long enough), deassert reset signal, and wait some more
00:08:19	zeekoe	and _just_ after that the recording starts?
00:08:32	zeekoe	or does it wait a little longer, somewhere
00:08:54	amiconn	The problem is that the MAS sometimes doesn't like to record directly after that, but the preconditions for this effect to occur ar not known yet
00:09:06	zeekoe	hm okay...
00:09:08	zeekoe	hey
00:09:09	zeekoe	Extending the delay after issuing a MAS reset from 0.2 to 0.5 seconds lowers the failure rate to ~20 %
00:09:23	zeekoe	so what if you'd wait a full second?
00:09:30	zeekoe	or is that too long
00:10:02	amiconn	This would get annoying. This time adds to the delay until the recording screen pops up.
00:10:24	zeekoe	okay, i understand
00:11:00	zeekoe	let's make a petition to ask micronas for the mpeg codec source in the mas :-)
00:11:28	amiconn	This was tried several times iirc, with no positive result :(
00:12:13	zeekoe	or just mail them why recording after a reset won't work... guess they aren't gonna answer that too
00:12:24	amiconn	I'd like to see _full_ programming docs, describing both the instruction set and i/o
00:12:34	zeekoe	that would be nice
00:12:38	zeekoe	they must be somewhere
00:13:31	zeekoe	what kind of dsp is it?
00:13:38	zeekoe	or is that a dumb question
00:14:09	amiconn	This may enable us to use other codes (at least simple ones). Straight PCM (uncompressed WAV), ADPCM...
00:14:39		Join dstar5 [0] (Lee@ACC01972.ipt.aol.com)
00:14:40	amiconn	WAV would be limited by the serial bandwidth, though. (44.1 kHz stereo are impossible)
00:15:19	amiconn	zeekoe: Recorders: MAS3587F, Player/Studio: MAS 3507D
00:15:31	zeekoe	hm
00:15:54	zeekoe	so it's not just like General Purpose DSP #2132 programmed to be MAS3587F
00:16:17	zeekoe	so the only way to actually know how to code it, is to ask micronas
00:16:20	zeekoe	that's bad
00:16:32	dstar5	amiconn: huh? so so the reset f's it up?
00:16:50	midk	zeekoe, we have the docs
00:17:07	amiconn	dstar5: Yes, although why it does that is beyond me, as it works when running from ram
00:17:19	amiconn	midk: where? show me!
00:17:32	midk	amiconn, linus got them a while ago
00:17:47	midk	they were online - some guy uploaded them for the world to see
00:17:53	midk	they're down now
00:17:56	dstar5	lol
00:17:59	zeekoe	w00t
00:18:13	zeekoe	the docs to actually change the mas coded?
00:18:15	zeekoe	neat
00:18:20	dstar5	that guy got his ass sued i bet
00:18:28	midk	yeah, i wonder what happened to him
00:18:42	amiconn	zeekoe: No, it's a special dsp already containing mp2/mp3 decoder and mp3 encoder (3587F only) in rom, but also having some ram to program them
00:19:20	midk	amiconn, archos has got the MAS3587 to record at 192kbit cbr
00:20:04	zeekoe	okay
00:20:26	zeekoe	so archos knew how to reprogram it?
00:20:28	dstar5	mas3587f that is :)
00:20:50	midk	archos must have the docs, yeah
00:21:06	zeekoe	lol
00:21:06	zeekoe	<Bagder>the day there's sound from the MAS3587, I'll run Rockbox non-stop
00:21:17	midk	haha
00:21:23	dstar5	lol
00:21:28	dstar5	sure....
00:22:34	*	zeekoe -> bed
00:22:37	zeekoe	nah
00:22:43	*	zeekoe \|bed
00:22:44	dstar5	heh
00:22:51	dstar5	like 11:22 there?
00:22:52	zeekoe	something like that
00:22:54	zeekoe	nah
00:22:58	dstar5	(pm)
00:23:00	zeekoe	like 0:22
00:23:02	zeekoe	am
00:23:03	dstar5	ohh
00:23:04	dstar5	lol
00:23:35	zeekoe	like, you retarded americans live like one day in the past
00:23:39	zeekoe	(nofi)
00:24:35	dstar5	uhh lol
00:25:55	midk	the docs used to be here
00:25:57	midk	http://krt.neobee.net/PNRS/DSPkurs/DSP_kurs.html
00:26:02	midk	(apparently)
00:26:13	midk	hmm. or are they still
00:27:19	zeekoe	midk: how do you know all this stuff? :)
00:27:39	dstar5	arghhh fuck gmail attachment downloading is not working well....
00:27:59	midk	zeekoe, i'm a genius :]
00:28:02	dstar5	it is supposed to be a 1mb dl, but gmail download is cutting it off at 800kb
00:28:43	dstar5	it cuts it of at differn't places everytime
00:28:50	zeekoe	:P
00:28:57	zeekoe	just don't take gmail :)
00:29:08	zeekoe	or resend the email to another address
00:29:27	dstar5	hummm do yahoo mail...
00:29:55	zeekoe	hmmm... i think that site suffers from the RockBox effect :P
00:30:30	dstar5	atleast gmail is still better than any other free provider (and better than aol also lol)
00:30:45	dstar5	WAY better than aol actaully... even yahoo is better
00:30:49	zeekoe	:)
00:30:53	zeekoe	"Realizacija JPEG algoritma za kompresiju slike na DSP"
00:30:55	zeekoe	that's nice
00:31:02	dstar5	what does that mean?
00:31:18	dstar5	jpeg decompression in dsp?
00:32:09	zeekoe	think so
00:32:27	zeekoe	jpeg decompression is slow now, for 1280x1024 pictures :-)
00:33:19	dstar5	heh being able to view pr0n on archos is cool
00:33:20	dstar5	lol
00:34:00	dstar5	i bet ipods can't do it HAHHA!
00:35:20	zeekoe	for ipods there's uclinux
00:35:46	midk	and the av300's
00:36:12	dstar5	what use is uclinux on ipod?
00:37:13	midk	uh.. linux... on ipod.. yeah.
00:37:33	ze	huh, i just found a mod for the tv card i've got that'll let it to 16bit 448khz (yes, 448khz) audio recording
00:38:25	dstar5	now i can uhh impress my firend because i have alinux on my ipod
00:38:35	midk	yeah.
00:38:48	midk	firend? alinux? slow down
00:39:06	ze	heh
00:39:53	zeekoe	448 khz :-\|
00:40:07	dstar5	?
00:40:58	zeekoe	ze: what tv card do you have? ;-)
00:41:31	ze	PV-BT878P+ rev 9D
00:41:50	dstar5	what brand?
00:41:52	ze	actually it's supposed to work with bt878's in general, but the instructions happen to be for that one specifically
00:42:07	zeekoe	http://www.domenech.org/bt878a-adc/index-e.htm
00:42:09	zeekoe	found it :)
00:42:16	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:42:22	ze	hehe
00:42:50	ze	but i'm still trying to get the card to work normal
00:43:05	ze	it's working but funkily
00:43:40	ze	it tunes the channel and gets audio ok, but the video is all screwed up
00:44:20	ze	it's vertically offset with a (usualy) green band at the bottom (or was it the top?), mostly b&w, and with a vertically offset ghost
00:44:43	ze	i've tried a bunch of different card/tuner options and haven't gotten any better
00:44:54	ze	which is odd cause i've tried the options i used to use successfully on a previous setup
00:45:44	zeekoe	well... i dont have any knowledge about this stuff... other than that i dont have pci and will thus never be able to use it :)
00:46:04	ze	hehe
00:47:32	ze	i'm wondering if maybe i had to patch bttv to add a proper card config for it or something
00:47:59	ze	cause i don't see any that have it's options specifically- fm, remote, and tvaudio
00:49:48	zeekoe	http://www.domenech.org/bt878a-adc/index-decimator-e.htm
00:49:59	zeekoe	I think is clear that the Bt878a has surpassed its original 448000 Sps limitation. It can digitalize up to 896000 Sps and give us 442 KHz usable bandwidth. Not bad, isn't?.
00:50:20	zeekoe	and sorry, dunno anything about bttv stuff...
00:50:23	zeekoe	and
00:50:26	*	zeekoe >bed
00:50:40	zeekoe	no, really this time :)
00:51:06	midk	nite
00:51:31	ze	hehe
00:51:32	ze	night
00:51:46	ze	wow 896khz? geez heh
00:52:29	dstar5	bye
00:52:56	dstar5	zeekoe: guess you aren't going
00:52:59	dstar5	lol
00:54:14	zeekoe	dstar5: i am
00:54:16	zeekoe	really
00:54:22	dstar5	lol
00:54:27		Quit zeekoe ("quit...")
00:54:38	dstar5	wow he did
00:55:01	dstar5	amiconn: anything else you want with the vu meter?
00:55:15	dstar5	i was thinking about a few thing but i am not sure
00:55:42	amiconn	dstar5: Sorry, didn't yet look into it after your latest changes.
00:55:44	midk	aka: amiconn, did you forget about my vu meter?
00:55:59	dstar5	midk: what vu meter?
01:00
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01:38:33	dstar5	who was it making the manual for the 2.3?
01:41:12	dstar5	byeee
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05:29:52	Guest	can anyone tell me if they have sound probs with ver 2.2
05:29:59	midk	no, but get a daily build
05:30:55	Guest	seems I have to have the volume up around 75 or above for me to hear it
05:31:10	midk	uh
05:31:15	midk	yeah, it's logarthmic scale
05:31:24	midk	as you can see 20-50 is not the same scale as 50-80
05:31:32	midk	the steps get louder as they go higher
05:31:54	Guest	so that's normal that I should have to have it that high?
05:32:34	midk	yeah...
05:32:38	midk	think of it this way
05:32:43	midk	the volume ranges 1-100
05:33:05	midk	hmm. how to explain. the higher the volume is, the larger the increase of sound output per step
05:33:29	midk	moving from 70 to 71 makes a larger difference than from moving from 50 to 51
05:33:37	midk	at 50 you can't even really hear the sound anyways
05:33:51	Guest	yea you can't
05:34:12	midk	well that's the best i can explain it, each step makes more of a difference the louder it is
05:34:17	Guest	i dont remember it like that before I put rockbox on it
05:34:36	midk	for example it's hard to notice the difference between 60 and 61. but it's easy to notice the difference between 80 and 81
05:34:45	midk	that's because the archos firmware only gives you like 10 steps total
05:35:52	Guest	I see
05:35:56	Guest	thanks for the info
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05:36:42	midk	np
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09:28:33	dwihno	Welcome back, Z!
09:28:36	Zagor	hi guys
09:28:44	dwihno	I hope your vacation was enjoyable.
09:28:52	Zagor	very
09:29:05	midk	hey Zagor
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09:31:31	midk	hey Bagder
09:31:32	Bagder	hey ho
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11:49:57	midk	nite
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11:58:13	webmind	nite
11:58:25	webmind	weird time to sleep in this heat
11:58:27	webmind	or not
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13:08:56	midk\|sleep	ÑíTë ÑíTë ëVß.
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14:56:26	Bagder	Zagor: bostream was bought by BBB!
14:56:40	dwihno	big bad bill?
14:56:42	dwihno	:)
14:56:47	Bagder	Bredbandsbolaget
14:56:53	dwihno	I know
14:56:59	dwihno	Just joking :) \o/
14:57:11	*	Bagder has no sense of humor
14:57:13	*	Bagder grins
14:59:57	Zagor	Bagder: yeah I saw that. still no room in my local switch though :(
15:00
15:01:53	Zagor	telia is less painful than i feared, though
15:02:37	Bagder	I figure you script away the login stuff
15:03:11	Zagor	actually I don't. i just logged in once and then never log out (cron */5 ping )
15:03:17	Bagder	ah
15:03:24	Bagder	good enough
15:03:32	Zagor	yeah, has worked so far
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15:32:42	dwihno	ah
15:32:44	dwihno	clever
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19:48:56	dstar5	why couldn't the ti 83+ come with more memory? :( atleast a few MB
19:50:39	scott666_	lol
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19:51:04	dstar5	i only have room for two games, with all the flash apps ihave
19:51:38	dstar5	and why do all those apps take up the same amount of mem? they are all 16384
19:51:53	dstar5	i am sure some could be smaller...
19:54:24	dstar5	i wish mirageos would just copy program out of archive, instead of moving each time, it would save you from having to garbage collect all the time
19:57:53	dstar5	and why is my calc freezing everytime i plug it into usb now?
19:58:02	dstar5	brb
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20:20:18		Join Guest [0] (jirc@pD9FF8378.dip.t-dialin.net)
20:20:34	Guest	Hi
20:21:10	Guest	Can anybody help me please, I habe some problems with my Archos Multimedia 20,
20:23:42		Quit Guest (Client Quit)
20:32:06	scott666	try with msn
20:32:10	scott666	shit, wrong window
20:32:26	*	scott666 looks around
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22:05:42	dstar5	scott666_: got doom 3?
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22:26:33	scott666	dstar5: yup
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22:42:47	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:48:30	dstar5	scott666: i would get it.. if i had a machine that could run it lol
23:00
23:02:10		Join zeekoe [0] (~zeekoe@ip51cc69f6.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl)
23:14:12	Ctcp	DCC request from zeekoe!~zeekoe@ip51cc69f6.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl (CHAT chat 1372350966 10786)
23:38:15		Join LinusN [200] (~linus@labb.contactor.se)
23:38:16		Quit Nibbler (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:41:02	amiconn	hi LinusN
23:41:46	zeekoe	amiconn: yeah! go discuss it with LinusN! :-P
23:41:51	zeekoe	we could have some fun here
23:42:00	dstar5	hi LinusN
23:44:53	LinusN	hey ho
23:45:09	zeekoe	aaargh.... why do all people say "hi" and "hey"
23:45:11	zeekoe	:P
23:45:49	zeekoe	i added them to the mark these words too list of xchat, so everytime someone says it the tab becomes blue
23:46:25	dstar5	hi
23:46:28	amiconn	LinusN: Sorry for always bothering you, but I have some questions concerning how things are done in rockbox
23:51:27	LinusN	amiconn: shoot
23:52:07	*	LinusN is on an island on the west coast of sweden, on vacation with his laptop and v.90 modem
23:53:07	amiconn	I know that you are on vacation. I wish I were on vacation too - it's hot here in Berlin
23:53:17	amiconn	(1) Why does rockbox alway do a power on reset to the mas when changing from playback to recording or vice versa
23:53:23	amiconn	?
23:53:49	amiconn	If I leave this out for the recording init, it does work when running from rom...
23:55:41	amiconn	(2) While searching for the recording problem, I also had a look at the i2c driver. From looking at the code, it seems that the SCL high phases are shorter than the minimum length defined by the standard. I wonder why...
23:56:37		Quit dstar5 ("Leaving")
23:56:38	LinusN	1) Because the MAS init function hasn't been changed since the days when the recording wasn't implemented.
23:57:06	LinusN	2) Because there is a bug in it?
23:58:18	amiconn	(3) The i2c_init (seems to) set PB5 to output and high regardless of the model. However, this is only "mas enable" for the player; for v1 recorders it is charger control, and for v2/fm it is main power control ???

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