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#rockbox log for 2004-08-30

00:01:22 Quit lImbus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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00:24:30 Quit bagawk ("umount /dev/brain")
00:39:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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09:11:39 Quit lImbus (" WOW! This IRC Client ownz! HydraIRC -> <-")
09:18:58 Join Bagder [0] (
09:22:22midkrebooting, brb
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09:22:34 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (
09:23:58Bagdermorning [IDC]Dragon
09:24:46[IDC]DragonHello everybody
09:25:05[IDC]DragonI'm excited about the Ondio findings
09:25:22[IDC]Dragonthat it seems to be derived from our models
09:25:24Bagderyeah, that seems promising
09:26:41Bagderguys, shouldn't we try to make it easier to build rombox from cvs ?
09:26:56[IDC]DragonI was about to suggest that
09:27:07[IDC]Dragonsince it's pretty mature now
09:27:38amiconn[IDC]Dragon: I'd suggest dual linking, as we discussed some time ago
09:27:40Bagderyes, and lots of people want it
09:27:51[IDC]Dragonhow about the normal build process doing a second linking?
09:27:53 Join LinusN [0] (
09:28:13[IDC]Dragonwelcome back
09:28:25amiconn[IDC]Dragon: This could provide e.g. rombox.ucl, in addition to rockbox.ucl
09:28:30amiconnhi LinusN
09:28:45Bagderyes, an additional rombox.ucl would probably be good
09:29:53[IDC]Dragonit requires everybobody to have my patched uclpack
09:29:57LinusN[IDC]Dragon: my recorder has white backlight now :-)
09:30:01Bagderbtw, why is the uclpack needed when building rombox?
09:30:08[IDC]DragonLinusN: congrats!
09:30:25[IDC]Dragonwhich size did you use? 0805?
09:31:06[IDC]DragonBagder: for symmetry, to have the same file format
09:31:37*amiconn is away
09:31:49[IDC]DragonBagder: but some perl script could attach that header, too, as long as we don't use the checksum
09:32:41 Join midk [0] (
09:33:01Bagderyes, I thought about something like that.
09:33:31[IDC]DragonLinusN: so, when tired of disemboweling fish, you cut PCB traces instead?
09:38:17 Quit Ka (Nick collision from services.)
09:39:46LinusN[IDC]Dragon: indeed
09:40:06 Join Ka_ [0] (
09:48:00[IDC]DragonBagder: feel free to extend the make for rombox.ucl
09:48:37 Nick midk is now known as midk|sleep (
09:48:39dwihnoAre there any major differences between the regular and rombox (except it runs from rom)?
09:49:01[IDC]Dragonnone, except for memory gain
09:49:06dwihnoLast night, my IBM 2.5" disk started to fail... Any ideas how to get the data back from it?
09:49:15dwihnoHow much of a gain?
09:49:22[IDC]Dragon~200 KB
09:49:44dwihnowhoa :D
09:50:03dwihnothat's a heapload
09:50:08[IDC]Dragondwihno: I suggest a recovery software, like Ontrack's EasyRecovery Pro
09:50:32dwihno[IDC]Dragon: Does it matter if I connect the disk using USB or a 2.5"->3.5" converter?
09:51:14[IDC]Dragonprobabably not, but you're on the safe side with IDE
09:51:57dwihnoTrying to "dd" the disk in linux results in nothing
09:52:17dwihnoI'll test dd_rescue tonight
09:52:28dwihnothat way, I'll see if the disk is readable or not
09:52:40 Part scott666_
09:53:02dwihnoAre there any risks or similar switching to rombox?
09:53:22[IDC]Dragonno, it's a regular ucl
09:54:01[IDC]Dragonas you see above, we're just discussing to make it a part of the regular build
10:01:09dwihnoI was just thinking what might go wrong
10:02:13dwihnoThe buffer boost would be totally cool!
10:03:26[IDC]Dragonthen go ahead and flash it
10:04:46 Join lImbus [0] (
10:05:42lImbushi all. somebody keen on a gmail-account ?
10:09:46[IDC]DragonLinusN: I read you're mis-trusting our file system
10:10:28[IDC]DragonHow about filling recording data with upcounting bytes or so, and offline verify that content?
10:22:19dwihno[IDC]Dragon: What is needed? My dev environment is on my crashed disk :-(
10:23:30[IDC]Dragonyou can download the pre-made stuff from twiki
10:24:05[IDC]DragonJens is publishing his ROMbox builds there from time to time
10:24:29[IDC]DragonI had no luck installing gcc 3.3.1
10:25:24 Join Schoki2_ [0] (
10:26:44dwihnoI was able to backup all my source code before the disk crash
10:26:50dwihnoSomeone up there likes me.
10:28:00dwihnoI will still be able to boot the archos' firmware?
10:28:13 Part Schoki2_
10:28:47[IDC]Dragondwihno: do you have Rockbox flashed?
10:28:53dwihno[IDC]Dragon: Yeah.
10:29:11[IDC]Dragonthen you should know how a .ucl behaves
10:30:17LinusN[IDC]Dragon: yes, testing the file system like that is a good idea
10:31:51dwihnoMy list of "lost software" is growing
10:32:32dwihnoTime to flash.
10:33:54dwihnoIs it stupid to remove ajbrec.ajz from the root?
10:34:16[IDC]Dragonyou should leave it there
10:34:35dwihnofor any special reasons?
10:34:42[IDC]Dragonso, F1 On gives you Rockbox, too
10:35:06[IDC]Dragonand to rolo out of ROMbox before you flash again
10:35:41dwihnoconnecting to usb and re-transfering a new ajz will still work
10:35:49dwihnoI just prefer keeping the root directory uncluttered
10:36:56dwihnoWhoa. 1.779
10:38:08dwihnoWe had a discussion about rombox and the RLD problem earlier
10:38:50dwihnoRunning from ROM might fix the problem?
10:39:40***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:41:02[IDC]DragonI doubt it
10:41:35dwihnoWell, being the never-ending optimist, I'll tell you about my findings
10:41:37dwihnoYay for rombox!
10:41:45dwihnoIt's like a turbo-charged flash :)
10:41:56dwihnoFirst we got flash (yay!) then we got rombox (double-yay!)
10:42:42[IDC]Dragondon't get too excited, it's 10% more buffer, and maybe 4% longer battery life
10:43:38dwihno10% is a heapload, considering we only got 2 megs
10:43:47dwihnoSo join me in the rejoicing! :) \o/
10:44:10[IDC]Dragonas you say
10:44:30[IDC]Dragon(I got 8 megs ;-)
10:44:56dwihnoI want 8 megs as well
10:45:11LinusNme too
10:45:14dwihnoI'll have to get some chips and bribe Linus to solder it for me on the 2005 devcon :)
10:46:07LinusNjust get me some chips too, and we're even
10:51:03dwihnoI'll get the chips, and you solder. Deal?
10:51:44dwihnoWhile we're at it, there are no 16MB chips? ;)
10:52:11[IDC]Dragonthe CPU would support it
10:52:16LinusNdwihno: deal :-)
10:52:26[IDC]Dragonbut the world switched to SDRAM before
10:53:58dwihnoSo the archos' uses rdram? ;)
10:54:05dwihnoWhat kind of ram was used before sdram?
10:54:15LinusNedo type
10:54:27LinusNand static column before that
10:54:48dwihnoedo was what I was thinking about
10:55:30dwihnoLinusN: What kind of chips are preferred?
10:56:28LinusN[IDC]Dragon knows that better than me
10:59:26[IDC]Dragon8MB (4Mbit*16) EDO in TSOP package, 3.3V
11:00:15dwihnoWould be much simpler if you said something like "Samsung blabla SSMM4381" :)
11:00:23dwihnoA couple of examples
11:00:48[IDC]Dragonthere are several manufacturers
11:07:32dwihnoELFA might carry something like that perhaps.
11:08:16LinusNif it was that easy, i would have done it long ago
11:10:42[IDC]DragonHM5164165 from NEC is one example
11:12:23dwihnoGoogle tells me Hitachi are manufacturing them
11:13:49[IDC]DragonI'm not sure about the refresh requirements
11:14:12dwihnorefresh requirements?
11:14:51[IDC]Dragonwhat kind of refresh our CPU does
11:15:00[IDC]Dragonprobably 4k
11:15:28[IDC]Dragonwatch for low power
11:16:02[IDC]Dragon60 ns speed is enough
11:16:31dwihnoI love the french word for download
11:16:52dwihnoSounds pretty awesome :)
11:17:31[IDC]DragonSamsung K4E641612 or KM416V4104 may be suitable as well
11:18:30amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Iirc refresh is set to 1K (but could do 4K as well)
11:20:00[IDC]DragonI think I have a Hynix GM71V65163
11:21:25[IDC]Dragonchecked: I have GM71VS65163CL, the low power version
11:22:48[IDC]Dragonwhich is 4k refresh
11:30:42[IDC]Dragonfull title is GM71VS65163CLT5, for 50 ns
11:31:16[IDC]Dragonand TSOP
11:31:58[IDC]Dragonspelled as GM71VS65163CLT-5 more often, I find
11:33:11[IDC]Dragonbut -6 is fast enough, too
11:34:34[IDC]DragonBimex say they have 18 pieces in stock:
11:36:24[IDC]Dragonhowever, with some effort you should be able to find some surplus stock somewhere
11:46:11dwihnoA reasonable price would be ... ?
11:47:48[IDC]Dragondunno, a few EUR?
11:56:19[IDC]DragonBTW, I have flash chips to offer
12:06:08amiconn[IDC]Dragon: A propos flash: After Lee discovered the similarity of the Ondio hardware, I studied the features a bit
12:06:40amiconn(1) There are 2 models, the Ondio SP and the Ondio recorder FM
12:06:57amiconn(2) Both seem to use our well-know 112x64 graphic display
12:07:48amiconn(3) It is likely that the SP uses MAS3507, while the FM recorder most likely uses MAS3587
12:08:22dwihnoSo rockbox on ondio isn't impossible?
12:08:32amiconn(4) Both units are definitely flashable, as archos has one special upgrade .ajz available, for which it says it's a no-way-back upgrade
12:09:14amiconn(5) Ondio original firmware uses FAT16 for the internal flash (128 MB) and supports FAT12/FAT16/FAT32 for the memory cards
12:10:31dwihnoThe ondio has internal flash + external? What kind of card?
12:10:38amiconnMMC iirc
12:12:21amiconnyep, it's mmc
12:13:03 Part bc|feeding
12:16:23dwihnoMMC's are limited to 128 megs, right?
12:22:00lImbusI still wonder where the difference between SD-cards and MMC is. it's the same mechanical format.
12:39:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:40:41dwihnoWould be neat to cram a 1gbyte chip in the ondio :)
12:44:21LinusNamiconn: what about the NULL writes in the id3 code?
12:54:31[IDC]DragonLinusN: those should be avoidable with an if()
12:55:34[IDC]Dragontoo bad we didn't "discover" the Ondio earlier, it's been around a long time
12:56:41LinusN[IDC]Dragon: of course, but I want to know the reason for the pointers being NULL etc
12:57:48[IDC]Dragonduring the playtick, there are no valid pointers in the case of plugin/voice playback
12:58:04[IDC]Dragononly the mpeg code uses that
13:15:18[IDC]Dragonand I don't like that play tick function, it's a call from lower to upper layer
13:16:34[IDC]Dragonthe only remaining dependency since my playback split
13:18:20amiconnLinusN: (sorry, was somewhat away) There are a number of NULL pointer accesses in the mpeg.c code:
13:28:02 Join edx [0] (
13:30:53amiconn(1) playback_tick() writes to NULL if there are no tracks loaded (plugin playback, e.g. metronome.rock / video.rock)
13:31:24amiconnThis is avoidable by surrounding it with if (num_tracks_in_memory() > 0)
13:32:51amiconn(2) transfer_end() accesses NULL if the following track is not yet loaded (line 731). This is avoidable by changing the if (num_tracks_in_memory() > 0) above to > 1
13:33:47amiconn(3) transfer_end() also accesses NULL at some later point if we are about to change track. This I did not yet figure out exactly.
13:35:14amiconnFinally, I wonder what the id3tags[] pointer array is good for. Imho it would be sufficient to only have the _id3tags[] structure array, and directly use that as a ring buffer
13:43:01LinusNi'll look into this
14:04:26amiconnLinusN: That arises the question whether I should commit my debugging feature to catch this. Could you perhaps test that if it works for the player?
14:04:55amiconn(For committing, this would require some additional brushing, i.e. deactivation from within the flash plugins)
14:07:05amiconndwihno: No, mmc's aren't limited to 128 MB, there are mmc's up to 1 GB availabl
14:07:22dwihnoamiconn: there are? well, the store I've checked only has >128
14:08:32amiconndwihno: (a detail frame of a german internet shop,
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14:11:42dwihnoamiconn: cool
14:11:50*dwihno has three kinds of different memory cards
14:11:58dwihnowhich drives me nuts
14:13:40 Join zeekoe [0] (
14:25:25amiconnlImbus: (differences mmc-sd) (1) The mechanical format is the same (2) sd has one additional pin (3) mmc uses parallel data transfer, while sd uses hi-speed serial (4) sd has a "secured area", intended for drm
14:28:47dwihnobooo for drm!
14:35:28 Join Zagor [242] (
14:35:32amiconnLinusN: r u there ?
14:39:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:46:25amiconnGot my question about commiting the UBC debug feature?
14:48:06amiconnIn conjunction with that: would it be feasible to use some standard function (i.e. set_option() from settings.c) within debug_menu.c? This would save a few bytes for that feature
14:52:42lImbusamiconn: (a) which one is faster then ? (b) are they interchangeable ? (c) thanks for the knowledge :-)
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14:57:08amiconnlImbus: (a) iirc this depends on the flash chip itself, not the interface (b) all sd readers (I know of) are able to read mmc too. The reverse is not true
15:00:50zeekoelImbus: Why is MMC going to be replaced with SDC? One of the reasons is that the MMC is far not a speed record breaker.
15:04:03LinusNamiconn: i think the debug feature should be committed
15:05:24LinusNand using set_option from debug_menu.c sounds good
15:05:47LinusNalso, i can't see a reason why it wouldn't work on the player as well, can you?
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15:08:26LinusNamiconn: gotta go, i'll read the logs later
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18:01:20bagawk[IDC]Dragon: i am taking some time to update the ID# tag editor, and it will be a viewer, how would i add it to viewers..cfg without makeing it have an extension?
18:02:46bagawkOr will it be ok just to say mp3?
18:04:18[IDC]Dragonto register it for mp3 should be fine
18:05:52bagawkBTW: are mp2 files using the same tags?
18:06:43[IDC]Dragonat least, I think they don't have tags
18:07:14[IDC]Dragonbut this file format is more or less irrelevant
18:13:13bagawkwow writtin 3 chars of text in a 6x6 icon isa bit hard
18:17:25*bagawk gives up
18:18:55bagawkis it just me or do the viewer icons not show up?
18:19:21bagawki got it
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20:06:08*zeekoe is away: news
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22:14:27 Join awpticks [0] (
22:16:59awpticksI have an Archos Jukebox Studio 20, which has a broken screen, is there an easy remedy for that?
22:17:11zeekoeget a new screen :)
22:17:20awpticksthe screen isn't physically damaged
22:17:38awpticksit just doesn't display anything
22:17:52zeekoewhat did you do to it?
22:18:09awpticksi bought it off of eBay for cheap.
22:18:18zeekoeit never worked?
22:18:50awpticksit displayud the ..charging...
22:18:57awpticksnow it doesn't
22:19:23awpticksthe eBay auction specified that the screen didn't wark
22:19:33awpticksso i didn't get screwed.
22:19:42awpticksi knew that when i bought it
22:20:06awpticksi opened it, and re-seated the screen, and still no luck
22:20:07zeekoedid it display anything besides the playing screen?
22:20:26awpticksit only displayed the charging screen
22:20:35zeekoethat's what i meant
22:20:44awpticksoh, ok
22:20:47zeekoecan it play music?
22:21:12zeekoewith or without rockbox?
22:21:29awptickswith both.
22:21:45zeekoehow's the screen connected?
22:21:51zeekoewith normal wires
22:22:00zeekoeor easy-to-break stuff
22:22:06awptickswith a `zebra strip`
22:22:32zeekoedoes still it look good?
22:22:57zeekoereally odd that it did display the charging screen once, but nothing else
22:23:08awptickstoll me about it.
22:23:26zeekoeanyone else in here with ideas?
22:23:35awptickssorry for the typos, i recently switched to dvorak
22:23:59zeekoeseems hard to me, to change layout
22:24:01dwihnoawpticks: is the dvorak change hard?
22:24:10awpticksnot really
22:24:18dwihnoawpticks: I've been considering it, but it seems difficult to learn an old dog to sit again :)
22:24:25awpticksi'm learning farely well
22:24:37awpticksdwihno: it's not that hard
22:25:00awpticksi really thought i was gonna have big probloms
22:25:03awpticksbut i'm not
22:25:17zeekoecan you type faster?
22:25:20zeekoeless rsi?
22:25:22awpticksother than i have problems coding, yeah
22:25:29awpticksyeah, almosh
22:25:41awpticksi'm about up to what i was at
22:25:49awpticksbefore i switched
22:26:03dwihnowriting regular text ought to go a lot faster
22:26:19awpticksit is
22:26:37zeekoehow long did it take?
22:26:43awpticksanyone with any ideas an my non-functional screen?
22:26:56awptickszeekoe: about 2 months
22:27:26awpticksmy hands don't hurt as much anymore
22:27:34awpticksit'- really kinda cool
22:28:03zeekoei might change too... but i only type with 3-7 fingers
22:28:07zeekoehad no typing lessons
22:28:21awpticksyeah. that's why i switched
22:28:39zeekoepeople tend to think i type really weird, no fixed finger positions, but i can type blind and quite fast
22:28:52awpticksyeah, that's like i was
22:29:12awpticksonly @80WPM
22:29:22zeekoedunno what i do
22:29:41zeekoe200 cpm or so?
22:29:42zeekoenot sure
22:30:03awpticksdo you think that if i clean the zebra-strip it might wark?
22:30:05zeekoeontopic :-) cant you just ask the guy you bought it from what happened to the screen?
22:30:10dwihnoI know of a guy who got ~600 hits per minute and still types with a amazing low failure rate
22:30:17awpticksi'll ask
22:30:25awpticksi dunno if he'll tell me
22:30:38zeekoeit would really help you i think
22:30:46zeekoedont think cleaning the zebra strip will work
22:31:04dwihnoI would ask someone with great hardware skills to check what's wrong
22:31:09awpticksalright, i'll email him right now, and i'll toll everyone in here his response
22:31:23awpticksdwihno: i repair laptops :)
22:31:26zeekoeyou can ask on the mailing list too
22:31:37zeekoeawpticks: i repaired mine too :)
22:31:56awpticksi'll never replace RAM chips again
22:32:02dwihnoawpticks: cool
22:32:10zeekoeit was 0.5% of the cost of sending it to the official repair
22:32:56awpticksmine was a free repair (- my time of course)
22:33:06awpticksbecause i had parts on-hand
22:33:23zeekoemy power connector got damaged, when it fell on its back... :-( bought a new one for Eur 1,60 instead of that guys replacing the motherboard (Eur 400 or so)
22:33:47midkwhy would you replace a motherboard for a broken power connector?
22:34:05zeekoepower connector is part of the mainboard
22:34:07awpticksmidk: to make money
22:34:09zeekoeit's just logical
22:34:30dwihnoDamn you capitalists :)
22:35:00*awpticks slides out of the way of dwihno's accusations
22:35:45dwihnoalthough capitalists are driving europe straight to /dev/urandom
22:35:46dwihnothat reminds me
22:35:50zeekoei work at a helpdesk/repair too
22:35:54zeekoethey repair for free
22:35:57zeekoejust shipping
22:36:02dwihnoI have to put a /dev/null sticker on my new trashcan at work
22:36:24dwihnoThen I'll hide it
22:36:37dwihnoOtherwise, people will throw stuff like fruits and stuff in it
22:36:40*awpticks has "bow before me for i am root" on his laptop
22:37:02dwihnoI still have "intel inside" and "designed for windows xp" stickers on my laptop
22:37:39zeekoei have s.gned for osoft 'ndows(R) XP
22:37:47zeekoeit's right under my hand :P
22:38:40dwihnoI want to recover the data from my disk :(
22:38:51*awpticks wants his screen to wark
22:38:52dwihnoFeels like getting a 2.5" -> 3.5" adapter won't do me no good
22:39:03zeekoedwihno: what happened?
22:39:05*awpticks cries
22:39:20zeekoeawpticks: try throwing it on the ground
22:39:23 Join midk_ [0] (~midk@
22:39:35awpticksno thanks
22:39:47zeekoeawpticks: it may help...
22:40:01***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:40:05 Nick AciD is now known as AciD` (
22:40:07zeekoei read the hard disk can survive 1 foot drop on concrete
22:40:13awpticksi just dan't want to damage the drive
22:40:32dwihnozeekoe: first of all, I got strange mechanical sounds (clunking), so I backed up all sourcecode (with occasional reading failures, which could be fixed with retries)... but after a while, it stalled and when I reconnected it, it didn't work
22:40:37awpticksi don't care what it is supposed to do
22:40:52dwihnozeekoe: Linux gives me no additional information.
22:41:03zeekoedwihno: in your laptop?
22:41:05awpticksdwihno: bad crash
22:41:19awpticksi had that happen on a RAID
22:41:21dwihnozeekoe: nah, my old archos' disk, mounted in an usb2 shell
22:42:25zeekoemy disk also makes some weird sounds when i quickly turn my archos while spinning... but that's normal i think
22:42:37awptickswell, i'm gonna open up thu jukebox again, and try cleaning
22:42:44awpticksi'll be back
22:42:50*awpticks is gone
22:43:04dwihnofamous last words ;)
22:43:35zeekoeyou can become governor saying that words
22:43:50awpticksyeah, i know
22:44:13zeekoeawpticks: ssssh... you should be cleaning your box now
22:44:41awpticksssh localhost
22:44:55zeekoeoh no... i was expecting that...
22:44:58 Quit midk (Nick collision from services.)
22:45:02 Nick midk_ is now known as midk (~midk@
22:45:25awpticksprobably not `ssh` then
22:46:14*awpticks unscrews
22:46:56zeekoescrew you
22:48:10zeekoe(nofi :-))
22:51:15dwihnotime to sleep
22:51:22dwihnogood night, for now
22:51:31awpticksi soo the problem
22:51:42*awpticks gets out the file
22:51:59awpticksthe LED strip pushes up on the LCD
22:52:35*awpticks screams at the engineers && QC
22:53:33awptickswould heating the solder and then pushng it down be better than filing the top down?
22:59:46zeekoeyou're the laptop repair guy :P
23:00:05zeekoeis the solder directly connected to the zebra thingy?
23:03:41awpticksno, a zebro strip is just conductive tracings sandwiched in silicone
23:04:44awpticksthe only problem is that they require steady pressure in order to wark
23:08:23lImbuslal ?
23:11:25amiconnlImbus: data?
23:18:07lImbusamiconn: I was laughing at awpticks' dvorak-problems (o=a).
23:18:52lImbusok, it's a bad one... I'm gonna leave anyway
23:21:44 Quit lImbus (" HydraIRC -> <- Nine out of ten l33t h4x0rz prefer it")
23:25:43 Join scott666_ [0] (
23:41:00 Join Nibbler [0] (
23:44:01awpticksi deserve some head
23:44:10awpticksthe screen new warks
23:45:45awpticksi just put a peice of tape and foam between the front glass, and the back of the plsatic scroon protector
23:46:41awpticksthanks for the help, and i hope that someone else can benefit from my 'procedure'
23:47:12 Quit awpticks ("see you guys later")
23:54:35 Join bagawk [0] (

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