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00:16:29 | Zagor | cvs.uclinux.org does not contain the latest code :( |
00:17:34 | bagawk | Zagor, what are you working with uclinux for? |
00:17:40 | bagawk | the archos? :) |
00:18:10 | Zagor | i just want to look at the code. if they have support for some of the devices (such as audio), it will contain useful information. |
00:19:16 | Zagor | so now I'm checking out their entire cvs repository :) |
00:23:24 | Zagor | whee! uClinux-2.0.x/drivers/char/m5249audio.c |
00:25:09 | pike | whats that for? |
00:25:28 | Zagor | it's good to look at when debugging our own audio driver |
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00:33:02 | Zagor | bed time. night all. |
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01:26:09 | bagawk | bye bye |
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02:36:18 | OPP | hello |
02:39:02 | kaboofa | Hi. |
02:42:12 | OPP | any place where i can get indepth info about new gmini |
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06:18:11 | ker0zene | I just popped in to say that I love what you guys are doing, good luck with the work |
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09:29:46 | pike | I made this post to the Misticriver forums: http://eurodanceparty.is.dreaming.org/visit_djveryrelentless.8m.com_because_dj-very_is_the_best.php?clipid=d109112004 I felt I could say what I feel since I'm not affiliated with either you or Iriverlounge... |
09:30:19 | pike | lol.. why does my clipboard screw up.. thats not the correct link, here it is: http://www.misticriver.net/boards/showthread.php?p=41484#post41484 |
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10:05:26 | [IDC]Dragon | morning Jens |
10:05:35 | amiconn | morning Jörg |
10:05:47 | [IDC]Dragon | no Ondio yesterday, I guess? |
10:05:49 | amiconn | Still no Ondio here :( |
10:05:56 | [IDC]Dragon | tomorrow then |
10:06:36 | amiconn | Well, this is not that bad - at least I could complete some other stuff :| |
10:07:12 | amiconn | Currently I'm doing extensive recording tests |
10:07:41 | amiconn | Listening to the very same CD over and over :/ |
10:08:02 | [IDC]Dragon | how about a pattern fill,to rule out file system problems? |
10:08:07 | amiconn | Still no toslink -> electrical adapter though |
10:08:31 | [IDC]Dragon | I got plenty of those :-/ |
10:08:58 | amiconn | For a file system test, I even plan to use the RNG, with the same seed for writing and read-compare |
10:09:12 | [IDC]Dragon | the slow one? |
10:09:33 | [IDC]Dragon | or BCs? |
10:10:12 | amiconn | Yesterday I asked at 2 local electronics stores for that adapter - they wanted 60,- € and 80,- €, respectively. One of them even didn't have it on stock |
10:10:32 | amiconn | That means I'll buy the parts and solder myself |
10:11:07 | amiconn | Not BCs RNG; either the rockbox one or my own from the grayscale lib |
10:11:17 | [IDC]Dragon | you can get the TORX173 at Reichelt for sure, or maybe Conrad |
10:12:16 | [IDC]Dragon | needs 5V and a resistor divider to get 75 Ohm output at 0.5V |
10:12:20 | amiconn | Yes, reichelt has them for € 3.65 iirc, but this involves ordering. |
10:12:40 | [IDC]Dragon | plus a coupling capacitor to get it DC free |
10:12:58 | amiconn | Segor has them for € 4.20, and I can go there. This is even near my working place |
10:13:06 | [IDC]Dragon | ok |
10:13:28 | amiconn | While we are at it - do you have schematics for the reverse direction too? |
10:13:45 | [IDC]Dragon | cinch to TOSLINK? |
10:13:50 | amiconn | yup |
10:14:00 | [IDC]Dragon | that's more tricky |
10:14:21 | amiconn | Not that I need it now, but it would be nice to have a full converter |
10:14:21 | [IDC]Dragon | because you somehow have to regain a TTL signal |
10:14:35 | [IDC]Dragon | no, I don't |
10:14:44 | amiconn | A comparator should be able to do that |
10:14:49 | [IDC]Dragon | but I'm sure it's easy to find |
10:15:12 | [IDC]Dragon | remember the signal is DC-free |
10:15:33 | amiconn | yes |
10:16:15 | amiconn | The 0.5V - is that peak-peak, or only one peak? |
10:16:31 | amiconn | (i.e. do I have to divide by 10 or 20)? |
10:16:38 | [IDC]Dragon | pp, divide by 10 |
10:16:48 | [IDC]Dragon | but the level is not critical |
10:16:52 | amiconn | ok |
10:18:01 | amiconn | I guess we'll get the recording going on the Ondio straight away, as soon as we have mmc access |
10:18:13 | [IDC]Dragon | they perhaps use zero-crossing detectors, don't care for the level |
10:18:31 | [IDC]Dragon | MMC is the key, yes |
10:18:50 | [IDC]Dragon | without, it's kind of limited ;-) |
10:19:09 | amiconn | The recording transfer routines in the recorder v1 and the ondio sp (!) firmwares are the very same |
10:19:38 | amiconn | Completely unopütimized, btw |
10:19:51 | [IDC]Dragon | have you disassembled something? |
10:20:01 | [IDC]Dragon | or just talking about the pins? |
10:20:32 | amiconn | sh2d -sh1 |
10:20:56 | [IDC]Dragon | and you fond the routines? Impressive! |
10:21:04 | amiconn | And then searching for 0x04000000, simple |
10:21:20 | [IDC]Dragon | parallel, aha |
10:21:29 | amiconn | I also found a part of the mmc driver... |
10:21:47 | [IDC]Dragon | let me guess how... |
10:21:47 | amiconn | ...and the bitswap |
10:22:04 | amiconn | The bitswap is also table lookup, unoptimized |
10:23:47 | [IDC]Dragon | our fastest is also a lookup |
10:25:31 | amiconn | Yes, but ours is much faster. Even my 3-stage swap without lookup is much faster than the archos one |
10:25:47 | [IDC]Dragon | ;-) |
10:26:17 | [IDC]Dragon | have you seen if they use DMA? |
10:26:18 | amiconn | ...and it needs less space (contrary to our optimized table-lookup swapping) |
10:26:28 | amiconn | DMA for what? |
10:26:56 | amiconn | mmc? |
10:27:09 | amiconn | Don't know yet, have to look |
10:27:52 | [IDC]Dragon | anyway, it's not very useful to peek at bad code |
10:28:48 | amiconn | No that I plan to use anything of it (and we're not allowed to do that), but it can be useful to verify addresses etc |
10:28:55 | amiconn | *Not |
10:32:41 | amiconn | They don't use dma, swapping every byte directly before transmission, resp. directly after receiving |
10:33:28 | [IDC]Dragon | and poll for byte arrival, or within an interrupt? |
10:34:30 | | Quit R3nTiL () |
10:34:44 | [IDC]Dragon | (I think Hitachi made a mistake with their sync mode, since SPI is the other way round) |
10:35:42 | amiconn | Looks like polling, as this is not an interrupt routine |
10:36:05 | amiconn | Same goes for (at least one) routine calling it |
10:36:11 | [IDC]Dragon | I'm sure we can do better ;-) |
10:36:27 | [IDC]Dragon | but not necessarily in the first shot |
10:37:00 | amiconn | I plan to reuse the bitswap we already have, and swap sector-wise |
10:37:13 | [IDC]Dragon | yes, I thought so too |
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10:39:55 | amiconn | Mmcs support multi-sector reading, and from the first glance it seems that there is not limit on the number of sectors you can request at once |
10:40:54 | amiconn | Still, every sector has its own checksum (a standard CCITT CRC16), so the transfer has to be handles sector wise |
10:41:12 | | Quit midk (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
10:43:05 | [IDC]Dragon | the CRC in the debug menu should be a CCITT CRC16 |
10:43:20 | [IDC]Dragon | so we should make a module from that |
10:43:34 | [IDC]Dragon | then it can be reused at verious places |
10:43:46 | [IDC]Dragon | various |
10:43:59 | * | amiconn looks if this is the same polynomial |
10:44:35 | [IDC]Dragon | but it's not the fastest, with only 4 bit lookup |
10:44:44 | [IDC]Dragon | was optimized for size |
10:45:28 | [IDC]Dragon | is the CRC mandatory? |
10:45:31 | amiconn | Hmm. can't figure whether this is the same polynomial. |
10:45:33 | [IDC]Dragon | (for writing) |
10:45:55 | [IDC]Dragon | the first word should be the polymomial |
10:46:16 | amiconn | It seems that we can go without, but I have yet to find a description of the mmc parameter registers |
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10:47:08 | [IDC]Dragon | is it stored on the card, or just generated for transmission? |
10:47:30 | amiconn | The routine in the debug menu is 0x1021, but for the mmc one I only have a term: x^16 + x^12 + x^5 + 1 |
10:47:31 | [IDC]Dragon | in the latter case, it doesn't really help |
10:49:14 | amiconn | CRC is optional, and it is for transfer |
10:49:29 | [IDC]Dragon | our transfer is very local |
10:49:44 | [IDC]Dragon | so we shouldn't expect problems there |
10:49:52 | amiconn | Just found the command, even: CRC_ON_OFF (CMD59) |
10:51:07 | amiconn | I agree that we can leave this out. The CRC bytes are still transferred when CRC is off, but they are dontcare then |
10:53:16 | amiconn | The only thing where the crc is _required_ is when switching the card into spi mode, but this command is static, so we can simply precalculate it |
10:55:05 | amiconn | Another matter: any progress in analyzing the hardware? |
10:56:44 | [IDC]Dragon | I made minor updates yesterday |
10:57:34 | amiconn | Yes, found that. Still no working usb mode :( |
10:57:46 | [IDC]Dragon | checked the AND levels in all 4 cases: |
10:58:04 | amiconn | How do you access the Ondio via usb when there is a rockbox ajbrec.ajz on the card? |
10:58:08 | [IDC]Dragon | USB mode on/off, internal/external card |
10:58:41 | [IDC]Dragon | the Archos firmware goes into USB mode before loading that |
10:58:48 | [IDC]Dragon | like the JB |
10:59:11 | amiconn | Ah ok |
10:59:58 | [IDC]Dragon | btw, it's USB-powered |
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11:00:46 | amiconn | Nice! So it doesn't drain the batteries in usb mode. Does it run without batteries inserted on usb? |
11:00:59 | [IDC]Dragon | yes |
11:01:18 | [IDC]Dragon | very useful for my tests with the bare PCB |
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11:03:10 | [IDC]Dragon | just found: the tuner power seems to be switched |
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11:04:11 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: I just had a look at two toslink<->electrical converter kits available from ELV - these use TTL level for chinch??? |
11:04:48 | amiconn | http://www.elv-downloads.de/service/manuals/14442_Lichtleiter_Technik/TTL_KM.pdf |
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11:18:23 | [IDC]Dragon | looks hairy: the balance it right at the switching threshold? |
11:18:32 | [IDC]Dragon | s/the/they |
11:19:48 | amiconn | It looks like that, yes |
11:23:58 | [IDC]Dragon | how about retrofitting your CD player with a cinch jack? |
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11:24:59 | amiconn | It's actually my DVD player, an old Thomson one. It doesn't even play CD-Rs, not to mention mp3 |
11:26:38 | [IDC]Dragon | I once upgraded a jack to my CD player |
11:26:53 | [IDC]Dragon | which had no digital out |
11:27:21 | amiconn | Another matter: I just finished my next recording test round (analog). I left out m/s stereo encoding - and I didn't get frame sync errors! |
11:27:45 | amiconn | Where did you get the spdif signal from? |
11:28:14 | * | amiconn looks up something |
11:29:13 | [IDC]Dragon | I chased for it with a scope, found it on one of the big chips |
11:30:14 | amiconn | That means that you'll have to know how spdif has to look like. I don't |
11:30:34 | amiconn | I doubt that this is possible with my CD player either. It's a rather old one |
11:30:44 | [IDC]Dragon | I found the 44.1 kHz somewhere |
11:30:55 | [IDC]Dragon | then I was able to use that as a trigger |
11:31:21 | [IDC]Dragon | then I went for the other pins to find a signal which is in sync to that |
11:33:57 | amiconn | Just found that my CD writer (in the amiga) does have spdif out. Now I only have to find a connector... |
11:44:24 | amiconn | I was wrong :( No spdif there |
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13:04:03 | [IDC]Dragon | got disconnected without noticing |
13:04:50 | [IDC]Dragon | I just updated the Ondio page a bit again |
13:06:13 | amiconn | Found that (the bridge clock enable) and fixed the chip table a bit :) |
13:06:45 | amiconn | (The table cell separator wasn't noticed by twiki for some reason) |
13:07:30 | [IDC]Dragon | I thought I fixed that, hmm |
13:15:26 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: (1) You wanted to guess how I found the mmc driver parts (2) You wanted to tell me about the logic levels |
13:16:51 | [IDC]Dragon | (1) by the serial port addresses |
13:17:06 | [IDC]Dragon | (2) which levels? |
13:18:10 | amiconn | (1) Yes, although it is even a bit easier. Sh2d puts the register name as a comment behind know addresses, so you only have to search for TDR1/ RDR1 |
13:18:59 | amiconn | (2) [10:57:49] <[IDC]Dragon> checked the AND levels in all 4 cases: |
13:19:11 | amiconn | [10:58:12] <[IDC]Dragon> USB mode on/off, internal/external card |
13:22:12 | [IDC]Dragon | I'll add a table |
13:22:41 | [IDC]Dragon | (later) |
13:24:01 | [IDC]Dragon | when I enabled sync mode, I got a constant frequency at the clock line |
13:24:25 | [IDC]Dragon | instead of bursts of 8 clocks per byte |
13:24:46 | [IDC]Dragon | I didn't transmit bytes, so it should stay idle (high) |
13:25:14 | [IDC]Dragon | probably this is another mode. |
13:26:41 | [IDC]Dragon | lunch time |
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13:50:14 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: You shouldn't get continuous clock in sync mode as per sh datasheet |
13:50:14 | amiconn | Perhaps your serial init is incomplete |
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15:28:09 | amiconn | hi Zagor |
15:28:15 | Zagor | hi |
15:28:53 | amiconn | I hacked together a test plugin for the file system, using pseudo-random data |
15:29:13 | amiconn | I wonder why the rockbox prng is limited to 31 bit (done by you)? |
15:30:44 | Zagor | because posix rand() is like that |
15:31:30 | Zagor | i have a vague recollection that we got into trouble with 32-bit for some reason. can't remember exactly though. |
15:31:36 | amiconn | ah ok. Unfortunately this limits me to only use 3 bytes |
15:33:57 | Zagor | i can't come up with a reason right now why we shouldn't use unsigned 32-bit... |
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15:36:25 | amiconn | Ah sh**! The rockbox rng is much too slow on the target to be useful. It worked perfectly in the sim... |
15:37:54 | amiconn | Although that does much more resemble the way the mpeg thread does save data. Save the buffer, pause a while, save the buffer... |
15:39:12 | Zagor | i think we may be able to solve the button issue by simply using symbolic defines instead of button codes. i'm going through the code now and it looks promising |
15:40:23 | Zagor | the pitch screen has to go though, but that has been the plan for a long time |
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15:41:40 | amiconn | What do you mean with symbolic defines? Having events like CALL_MENU etc. instead of raw button codes? What about the plugins? |
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15:42:40 | Zagor | yes, something like that. plugins solve it themselves, possibly the same way |
15:44:08 | amiconn | Imho it would be nice to have raw button events as well as pre-processed ones. The caller may then decide which ones to use |
15:44:30 | amiconn | Of course the raw button codes have to be unique |
15:46:48 | Zagor | yes the events are the same, we just change the switch cases to use symblic defines such as TREE_NEXT instead of BUTTON_DOWN |
15:47:39 | Zagor | we've done it half-way in tree.c but I think/hope we can do it pretty much all over |
15:49:27 | amiconn | This still doesn't solve the case when BUTTON_ON == BUTTON_OFF. This case must not happen. If we deal with a device with less buttons, and want to generate different events from the same button e.g. depending on whether it is pressed short or long, we need some preprocessing in the button driver |
15:50:07 | Zagor | yeah I know. i'm doing some tests to see how many such cases we'll run into |
15:50:23 | Zagor | we already have that processing: BUTTON_REPEAT |
15:51:24 | amiconn | There are a number of them (temporarily disabled by Jörg). I tried enabling the plugin compilation (was a fix in the plugin lib makefile) and found that almost every plugin runs into this clash too. |
15:52:03 | amiconn | The most ugly I found (before giving up for now) was chip8.c |
15:52:04 | Zagor | yes but we cannot define conflicting raw events. two BUTTON_xxx codes must never have the same values. |
15:52:16 | amiconn | Yes, exactly |
15:53:00 | amiconn | But we still need the alternative functions of these buttons... |
15:57:02 | amiconn | Btw, I had a quick look at an iriver ihp-120 yesterday at the local electronics store. I can't say that I like it, apart from it being rather expensive |
15:58:00 | Zagor | i'm not a big fan of the navigation "knob", but apart from that i think it's pretty ok |
15:58:13 | Zagor | the remote control screen is very nice |
15:59:21 | ashridah | the nav joystick thing doesn't bother me that much, although i spend far more time using the remote, since the main unit is generally in my pocket, with the remote clipped to my collar. |
16:00 |
16:00:03 | ashridah | the 3xx series uses a keypad tho if the nav stick bothers you. pity that's more expensive still :) |
16:00:06 | Zagor | ow, that reminds me. i need to consider the ihp remote buttons too... |
16:00:28 | ashridah | Zagor: you can buy spare remotes, so strip it and start measuring signals? :) |
16:00:36 | amiconn | (1) I also dont like that wiggly navigation knob (2) there are several buttons scattered all around the case (3) the chrome is very susceptible to fingerprints (4) no standard 2.5" hdd |
16:00:37 | Zagor | ashridah: yeah i much prefer that style. not a fan of the color screen though. as you say, it's mostly in the pocket anyway... |
16:01:49 | Zagor | unfortunately 2.5" players are pretty much going extinct :( |
16:01:54 | ashridah | i've been keeping mine in my pocket for ages, and the knob hasn't given me any trouble. |
16:01:58 | amiconn | 20 GB isn't much, and they wanted € 389,- for the ihp-120, compared to the € 199,- for the recorder v2 (yes they still sell them) |
16:02:31 | Zagor | amiconn: i'm not trying to sell you an ihp :) |
16:02:49 | amiconn | Of course not ;) |
16:03:29 | ashridah | heh. i was sold on my ihp-140 the moment i found out it supports ogg out of the box |
16:03:54 | Zagor | ashridah: do you know anywhere I can see detailed photos of the remote? linus has our only unit. |
16:04:10 | ashridah | of the internals, or just the outside? |
16:04:13 | Zagor | outside |
16:04:21 | ashridah | i'll try and find one |
16:06:34 | ashridah | http://image.itwarehouse.com.au/images/IRI0058.JPG there's another knob on the bottom, plus a hold switch next to it |
16:06:44 | amiconn | ashridah: I don't need ogg or wma support at all. Although .mod support could be interesting (afaik this is not found in any modile music player out of the box so far) |
16:07:12 | ashridah | amiconn: i'm not trying to sell you on it either |
16:07:24 | ashridah | although i imagine someone will hack it into the player via rockbox eventually. |
16:07:52 | ashridah | Zagor: each of the side buttons can be pushed two either side, or in. |
16:08:48 | Zagor | is there only one button on the "lower" side? |
16:08:53 | ashridah | yeah. |
16:08:56 | Zagor | ok |
16:09:17 | ashridah | the other spot opposite the nav button is the hold switch which locks only the remote |
16:09:23 | Zagor | the ring outside the play button isn't a button, is it? |
16:09:28 | ashridah | nope |
16:09:36 | ashridah | the play button is slightly recessed into the ring |
16:09:55 | ashridah | pity i don't have a digital camera, i could photograph the lot for you :/ |
16:10:13 | Zagor | this is fine thanks |
16:11:07 | ashridah | the other switch just above the stop button is the 'REC' button, which also lets you skip directories, or switch through the equaliser presets. |
16:11:14 | ashridah | if you hold it, it switches to record mode. |
16:11:23 | ashridah | if you hold the play button, it switches to the FM radio0 |
16:11:29 | ashridah | holding stop switches it off |
16:12:44 | Zagor | rec skips directories? what then does nav do? |
16:13:09 | ashridah | lets you skip files, or if you hold it, fast forwards/rewinds |
16:13:39 | Zagor | ok so what does "skip directory" mean? goes to next record in a playlist? |
16:13:40 | ashridah | if you press nav in, it goes to the file menu (VERY compressed on the three lines you get :), and if you hold it in, goes to the utility menus |
16:13:53 | ashridah | Zagor: no, goes to the next directory containing files on the disk |
16:14:02 | Zagor | do you know the actual resolution of the remote screen? |
16:14:59 | ashridah | hmm. not sure exactly. it holds about 4 lines of text, i'm not sure if the lines are the same width as the main unit, however |
16:16:03 | ashridah | i'd say it's got the same pixel size as the main unit, however |
16:16:18 | ashridah | the picture doesn't look any more grainy |
16:17:05 | ashridah | if you search the forums on www.iriver.com/community/ you'll find utilities that let you hack modified images into the firmware |
16:17:28 | ashridah | they probably mention the dimensions of the images for the boot logo, which is probably the maximum for the display and remote |
16:17:51 | ashridah | hmm. btw, it's not skipping directories, my bad. it's skipping '10 files' in the playlist. |
16:18:06 | ashridah | just looked like directories because that often crosses a directory's boundary |
16:18:27 | Zagor | ok |
16:19:56 | ashridah | all told you have 11 buttons on the remote, each having a different action for long and short hold, plus context dependent action |
16:21:53 | Zagor | yeah |
16:24:30 | Zagor | how is the bottom knob marked? |
16:25:31 | | Join R3nTiL [0] (~zorroz@121-250-30-217.kgts.ru) |
16:25:51 | Zagor | is that vol +/-? |
16:26:43 | ashridah | VOL -/+, A-B/Mode (if you just press it you can set a section to be repeated within a file, if you hold it, you set the type of file repeating (file, directory, playonce, 'shuffle') |
16:27:18 | ashridah | http://www.beermex.com/%40spc/iriver/ihpbmp/ihplogo.zip is an iriver firmware graphics mod app. it should mention the dimensions of the boot logos in the docs |
16:27:36 | Zagor | ok thanks |
16:27:56 | | Quit R3nTiL (Client Quit) |
16:28:19 | ashridah | i don't actually recommend using it, but it may help weed out the graphics inside the firmware, to remove dead weight from dissassembly. |
16:28:55 | Zagor | unfortunately it changes a bunch of graphics, but none of which cover the entire screen :( |
16:29:10 | Zagor | the boot logo is 104x88 for example |
16:29:17 | ashridah | hm. would have assumes the boot logos covered the viewable width |
16:29:28 | Zagor | yeah me too |
16:29:43 | ashridah | bum. |
16:30:43 | Zagor | hmm, i find no use for the record button :) |
16:30:56 | Zagor | (in current rockbox layout, that is) |
16:31:47 | ashridah | i'm sure you'll come up with something |
16:32:11 | Zagor | maybe a quickscreen |
16:32:14 | * | Zagor hides |
16:32:31 | amiconn | Zagor: There we go... |
16:36:57 | ashridah | well, i've got to get up at 8am, and it's already past midnight, so i'm hitting the sack |
16:37:13 | | Quit ashridah ("sleep") |
16:45:29 | Zagor | LinusN: please scan the cover of the ihp and the remote too. most photos on the net are too small or blurry. |
16:46:54 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
17:00 |
17:09:25 | amiconn | Zagor: I just started my fs stress test plugin (after improving it a bit) for testing an almost 2 GB file. This will run for about 8 hrs, though |
17:09:59 | amiconn | Chances are that out file system does not cause the recording errors, since my first test run (160 MB) did not yield any error |
17:13:54 | amiconn | I tried to mimic the file api usage of the recording code as close as possible, i.e. saving the buffer in 2 pieces (split point is pseudo-random) with fsync() after each part, and performing ata_sleep() afterwards |
17:15:51 | amiconn | If you want to see what I have -> http://amiconn.dyndns.org/test_fs.c |
17:16:10 | amiconn | Additionally his needs adding fsync to the plugin api |
17:34:49 | Zagor | good test. it will be interesting to see the result |
17:40:20 | | Join bagawk [0] (Lee@ACC34F92.ipt.aol.com) |
17:59:34 | bagawk | brb |
17:59:37 | | Quit bagawk ("umount /dev/brain") |
18:00 |
18:05:42 | | Join bagawk [0] (Lee@ACC591C7.ipt.aol.com) |
18:15:21 | bagawk | http://gaming.engadget.com/entry/8658980455609655/ |
18:15:38 | bagawk | kinda neat, but it seems the job could have been done a bit more cleanly |
18:15:44 | bagawk | :) |
18:17:57 | Zagor | see mini-itx.com for a truckload of weird pc builds. such as this commodore 1541 creation: http://www.mini-itx.com/projects/c1541/ |
18:25:29 | bagawk | i wish i kept my NES when it died, for a mod like that :( |
18:30:29 | bagawk | http://www.mini-itx.com/projects/mac-itx/ |
18:30:36 | bagawk | now that is VERY neat |
18:30:45 | bagawk | i could get a old mac se very cheap :) |
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18:52:28 | | Join midk [0] (~midk@c-24-18-39-204.client.comcast.net) |
18:53:33 | | Quit midk (Client Quit) |
19:00 |
19:11:36 | | Join R3nTiL [0] (~zorroz@142-248-30-217.kgts.ru) |
19:16:30 | | Join pfavr [0] (~Peter_Fav@213.237.46.232.adsl.ron.worldonline.dk) |
19:17:12 | Zagor | can the ondio have a remote control? |
19:17:16 | | Join bagawk_ [0] (Lee@ACC39694.ipt.aol.com) |
19:18:41 | | Quit bagawk (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
19:19:21 | Zagor | anyone with a player who can test some new button code? |
19:20:15 | | Quit pfavr (Client Quit) |
19:22:56 | bagawk_ | ohh pfavr was here |
19:23:01 | bagawk_ | i was wanteing to talk to him :( |
19:23:10 | bagawk_ | time to go |
19:23:11 | bagawk_ | bye |
19:23:13 | | Quit bagawk_ ("umount /dev/brain") |
19:39:33 | | Join Atur [0] (~Atur@host217-42-248-108.range217-42.btcentralplus.com) |
19:39:35 | | Quit R3nTiL (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
19:54:02 | amiconn | Zagor: (1) No remote for the Ondio afaik. (2) In case noone else can test on a player, I can do it in a few days :) |
20:00 |
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20:17:07 | | Join midk [0] (~midk@c-24-18-39-204.client.comcast.net) |
20:17:18 | | Join Bagder [0] (~daniel@1-1-5-26a.hud.sth.bostream.se) |
20:22:13 | | Quit midk ("just STOP it arspy") |
20:23:06 | Zagor | here is my idea about button assignments for the various units: http://bjorn.haxx.se/rb-buttons.txt |
20:25:02 | | Join midk [0] (~midk@c-24-18-39-204.client.comcast.net) |
20:27:47 | amiconn | Zagor: Isn't volume on the player menu+left/right? |
20:28:07 | Zagor | yes, it's a typo. |
20:28:24 | Zagor | fixed |
20:28:56 | | Quit Bagder ("Leaving") |
20:29:17 | amiconn | Looks reasonable, although a few questions arise: |
20:30:31 | amiconn | (1) What about the quick screens and f2/f3 on the recorder? (2) What about the pitch adjustment? You said the pitch screen has to go, where do you intend to put this functionality? |
20:31:32 | amiconn | (3) Recording screen for units that are capable of recording? (4) Plugins? |
20:32:14 | amiconn | (5) fm radio for the recorder fm and the ondio fm? |
20:32:21 | Zagor | 1) quickscreens are by definition recorder-only, since they depend heavily on the f-keys that no other models have |
20:32:31 | Zagor | 2) pitch goes into a menu entry |
20:32:57 | Zagor | 3) recording is a menu entry, as today. i haven't looked at the actual screen buttons yet |
20:33:39 | Zagor | 4) plugins need to handle this themselves. there is no way rockbox can dictate which buttons all plugins should use for whatever the plugins do |
20:33:40 | amiconn | (6) Context sensitive menus? |
20:34:20 | Zagor | 5) fm radio is a menu entry today - not a button issue. same with 6) |
20:35:10 | amiconn | (recording, fm radio) I don't talk about calling these functions, this is of course done via the menu. I'm asking for the button handling in these screens |
20:36:11 | amiconn | If you say F buttons functionality is by def recorder only, you rule out context menus for all other units, unless we come up with some clever key combos |
20:36:36 | Zagor | i don't have an fm unit so I haven't used them. wps and browser are the only two really generic items (except menus, but they are easy) that I would really want to handle in a somewhat generic way. special features for various models may still need model-specific code |
20:36:59 | | Quit midk (Remote closed the connection) |
20:37:43 | Zagor | F buttons are not equivalent to context-sensitive menus. but quickscreens in their current incarnation depend on f-buttons. no other model have any logical button to assign them to |
20:39:02 | amiconn | I'm asking for this because imho recording and fm are not that special. Recording capability: recorder v1/v2/fm, ondio, iriver. FM radio: recorder fm, ondio fm, iriver |
20:39:52 | Zagor | the feature as such is not special, but the button assignments may be difficult to make both generic and intuitive |
20:40:02 | | Join midk [0] (~midk@c-24-18-39-204.client.comcast.net) |
20:40:47 | Zagor | if we can make this generic for wps and browser, we've come a long way. i have no intention on coming up with an ultimate solution for all features. |
20:41:22 | Zagor | s/intention/illusion/ |
20:41:57 | amiconn | You did this (in an imho good way) for browser and wps. It should be possible for recording and fm too. I think that should be the logical next step when wps and browser are done |
20:42:00 | | Join GhUl [0] (~tim@p5089F1F6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
20:42:19 | Zagor | agreed |
20:42:25 | amiconn | Final addition: What about the archos remote? |
20:43:04 | Zagor | it's a carbon-copy of the player keypad (plus volume), so I didn't add it separately |
20:43:41 | amiconn | Ok. |
20:44:34 | amiconn | We still have to define which keys are locked when keylock is on |
20:44:55 | Zagor | yeah, i don't have a solution for that yet |
20:45:03 | amiconn | I guess we don't want to lock the remote keys ;) |
20:45:24 | Zagor | someone will likely request it... |
20:45:47 | amiconn | Iirc the current code does not do that, so... |
20:46:22 | Zagor | yeah, i'm just joking |
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20:48:42 | amiconn | Another addition: Currently, ON is not only shift in the browser, used alone it switches to the wps if the music is playing, but only in the root browser |
20:48:55 | Zagor | yeah, i spotted that omission too |
20:49:23 | Zagor | it works in the code :) |
20:49:56 | Zagor | i plan to remove mute |
20:50:20 | Zagor | and move id3-browser to the menu |
20:50:27 | amiconn | That may cause a flood of complaints on the ml ;) |
20:50:42 | Zagor | seriously? who uses mute instead of pause? |
20:51:00 | amiconn | Dunno, really. I don't |
20:53:08 | amiconn | As we move more and more items to the menu, we really need context sensitivity. The menu as it is now is rather large and thus not very intuitive. |
20:53:21 | Zagor | i agree |
20:54:50 | amiconn | Do you know how far c0utta got with that? Btw, I haven't seen him around for quite some time |
20:55:38 | Zagor | I don't know. Linus talked with him more than I did so I think he knows a little more about his code. |
21:00 |
21:06:17 | amiconn | Zagor: Another omission: recorder: (wps) rew = left+repeat, ffwd = right+repeat; the equivalents for the other models |
21:08:00 | Zagor | yup |
21:08:06 | Zagor | also fixed in the code |
21:09:21 | amiconn | Your list brought into a table would make a nice reference for a wiki page. |
21:09:37 | Zagor | good point. i'll add it |
21:12:22 | | Quit midk (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
21:13:15 | | Join midk [0] (~midk@c-24-18-39-204.client.comcast.net) |
21:29:17 | | Join HenrikB [0] (~HenrikB@as4-2-2.sjom.b.bonet.se) |
21:30:31 | HenrikB | Just a quick comment on id3-browse |
21:32:02 | HenrikB | If on+play is extended to the wps it can be removed from the menu when we add Jeremy Zoss's id3 browse/edit patch |
21:32:04 | | Join amiconn_ [0] (jens@pD95D1415.dip.t-dialin.net) |
21:32:22 | Zagor | on+play extended how? |
21:32:50 | | Part amiconn_ |
21:34:05 | pike | u seen the recent development of the other "alternative fw" for iriver ? |
21:34:14 | HenrikB | So it is available from wps, and made sensitive on from where it is called from. |
21:34:16 | Zagor | or do you simply mean context-sensitive menu? |
21:34:20 | Zagor | ok |
21:34:24 | HenrikB | Yes |
21:35:07 | Zagor | pike: yes. but i decided to ignore him several days ago. |
21:35:37 | pike | why didnt I think of that ;) well, seems like they'll be quiet from now on. |
21:36:03 | Zagor | only time will tell... |
21:39:15 | Zagor | it's a bit annoying that the iriver remote has different buttons than the head unit. makes making a consistent ui non-trivial. |
21:40:05 | Zagor | for example, which button should enter the menu? the main unit has no menu button, so i've chosen the "record" button for now. but the remote *has* a "menu" button, *and* a "record"... |
21:40:48 | Zagor | manufacturers should stop marking the buttons. they make my life more difficult ;) |
21:41:00 | Zagor | http://rockbox.haxx.se/twiki/bin/view/Main/ButtonAssignments |
21:41:02 | pike | yeah, I actually think the remote is smarter mapped than the main unit sometimes |
21:41:18 | amiconn | suggestion: (main record) == (remote menu), (main record+repeat) == (remote record) |
21:41:57 | Zagor | amiconn: not a bad idea. although the remote currently has more buttons than we have features ;) |
21:42:20 | Zagor | (not really, just more buttons than any of our other devices) |
21:43:01 | | Join tboy [0] (~xxx@212.114.242.74) |
21:43:29 | tboy | hi |
21:43:33 | Zagor | hi |
21:45:17 | HenrikB | I have both context sensitive menues and Jeremy's id3 plugin in my own builds |
21:45:25 | HenrikB | but since adding context sensitive menues will move a few entries from the main menu |
21:45:38 | HenrikB | to the on+play menu it probably should wait until after 2.3 |
21:46:07 | Zagor | maybe all context sensitive menus should have a last entry "full menu" |
21:47:52 | tboy | is there any info on rombox for the fm |
21:48:25 | tboy | is it possible for me to flash it on mine |
21:48:47 | tboy | or isn't there enough space |
21:49:42 | HenrikB | Zagor, Good idea |
21:49:58 | Zagor | tboy: fm is unfortunately too big for rombox |
21:50:02 | amiconn | tboy: If you can't compile yourself, the only option is to flash-change your fm into a v2. There isn't enough space with the archos fm firmware as first image. Beware that full flashing is a certain risk, and you won't have the radio available if out f1-boot |
21:50:21 | tboy | well I can compile myself |
21:50:24 | amiconn | s/if out/if you/ |
21:51:18 | amiconn | tboy: Then you can try the other 2 options as described on the RomBox wiki page, http://rockbox.haxx.se/twiki/bin/view/Main/RomBox |
21:51:53 | HenrikB | Real life calls, time to leave, Bye |
21:52:14 | | Quit pike (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
21:52:16 | tboy | ok |
21:52:20 | | Join pike| [0] (amiga@h234n1fls22o1064.bredband.comhem.se) |
21:52:24 | | Nick pike| is now known as pike (amiga@h234n1fls22o1064.bredband.comhem.se) |
21:52:26 | tboy | i'll look into that |
21:52:28 | tboy | thanx |
21:53:05 | | Quit HenrikB ("Lämnar") |
21:54:04 | | Join amiconn__ [0] (jens@pD95D1415.dip.t-dialin.net) |
21:54:14 | | Part amiconn |
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21:57:46 | | Quit midk ("just STOP it arspy") |
21:58:49 | | Join amiconn__ [0] (~jens@pD95D1415.dip.t-dialin.net) |
21:59:07 | | Quit amiconn () |
21:59:11 | | Join dim [0] (~dim@voltaire-1-81-57-79-133.fbx.proxad.net) |
21:59:14 | dim | hi guys |
21:59:17 | | Nick amiconn__ is now known as amiconn (~jens@pD95D1415.dip.t-dialin.net) |
21:59:37 | dim | could I add a bootable system on an archos ? |
22:00 |
22:00:11 | dim | my idea would to make archos a globe trotter tool as in : http://www.mandrakesoft.com/products/globetrotter |
22:00:40 | dim | so the archos would be able to handle a kind of grub or lilo, and choose a system on boot... |
22:01:01 | | Join midk [0] (~midk@c-24-18-39-204.client.comcast.net) |
22:01:13 | Zagor | dim: yes, the archos is just like any other usb disk |
22:01:42 | dim | but installing eg. a knoppix on it wouldn't hurt the system ? rockbox would still be available ? |
22:01:57 | Zagor | yes, if you keep the fat32 filesystem |
22:03:05 | dim | could i shrink it and modify the MBR ? |
22:03:11 | Zagor | yes |
22:03:21 | dim | that's a good news ! |
22:03:24 | dim | thanks ;) |
22:03:28 | kaboofa | hmm |
22:03:36 | kaboofa | wouldn't you risk burning out the drive? |
22:03:45 | Zagor | burning out? |
22:03:50 | kaboofa | i know some people did that to an ipod, and nearly killed it |
22:04:06 | dim | so an « other » entry in lilo or grub would allow me to boot rockbox... |
22:04:07 | Zagor | did what? |
22:04:15 | kaboofa | installed unix on an ipod |
22:04:29 | kaboofa | eh, whatever, hard drives are cheap |
22:04:29 | Zagor | dim: well rockbox boots from flash and doesn't care about the boot sector (other than for the partition table) |
22:04:33 | kaboofa | back to idle. |
22:04:47 | Zagor | kaboofa: :) |
22:05:33 | kaboofa | real men don't backup, they just put their hard drive on ftp and let the world mirror it |
22:05:55 | dim | ;) |
22:05:58 | dim | −− linus ;) |
22:06:05 | Zagor | i like the backup-over-gmail system |
22:06:21 | kaboofa | heh |
22:06:25 | dim | gmail only offers 1Go... quite no value |
22:06:35 | kaboofa | esp. if you have a few TB of crap |
22:06:58 | dim | for half an euro you have a 4.7Go DVD you can now burn in 5 mins (16x writer) |
22:07:15 | kaboofa | heh |
22:07:22 | kaboofa | my new dvd burner is coming in soon |
22:07:58 | kaboofa | so i can 'backup' my 'movies that i didn't rent from a video store' |
22:08:11 | dim | on the archos as a bootable usb device, i'll try and let you informed |
22:08:18 | kaboofa | roger that. |
22:15:09 | | Join guestweb [0] (~d95d1415@labb.contactor.se) |
22:15:38 | | Quit guestweb (Client Quit) |
22:20:22 | | Quit midk ("Leaving") |
22:26:57 | | Join SmoothOperator [0] (~acb9e53c@labb.contactor.se) |
22:27:05 | SmoothOperator | hey guys |
22:27:09 | | Quit methangas (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- irc client ownage!") |
22:27:46 | Zagor | hi |
22:27:47 | SmoothOperator | Has anyone here used or held an ipod? |
22:27:57 | SmoothOperator | hello Bjorn |
22:28:57 | Zagor | i havent |
22:29:24 | SmoothOperator | im just burning with desire to get one, but i don't want to make a horrific mistake |
22:30:06 | Zagor | well i hope you don't like gapless playback :) |
22:30:44 | SmoothOperator | i don't mind if there are gaps or not. I know Rockbox sometimes does gapless playback |
22:32:54 | Zagor | well it may not be the best player in all categories, but i can't say you're likely to make a "horrific" mistake. |
22:33:09 | | Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (~idc-drago@p50861E1A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
22:33:27 | amiconn | evening Jörg |
22:33:58 | SmoothOperator | still like my Archos though |
22:34:12 | SmoothOperator | i just wish it wasn't a breeze block compared to other MP3 devices |
22:35:06 | [IDC]Dragon | hi again, just a quick visit |
22:35:17 | SmoothOperator | hey [IDC]Dragon |
22:35:49 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: Got my remark concerning sync mode this afternoon? |
22:36:08 | [IDC]Dragon | yes, in the log |
22:36:27 | [IDC]Dragon | there must be some different setup possible |
22:37:00 | amiconn | archos uses default sync mode setup as described in the sh datasheet |
22:37:03 | [IDC]Dragon | when measuring the alive PCB, i get intermittant pulses with Archos f/w |
22:37:37 | [IDC]Dragon | the USB bridge puts out a constant clock |
22:37:52 | [IDC]Dragon | but uses MMC mode, most likely |
22:38:00 | amiconn | yes |
22:38:50 | [IDC]Dragon | the MMC card I have hear appears broken, I'll try another one tomorrow |
22:39:06 | [IDC]Dragon | can't use it to store something |
22:39:17 | | Quit elinenbe (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
22:39:33 | amiconn | Your level measurement marked 1 (?) may be in fact correct, mmc mode does not use /cs |
22:39:48 | [IDC]Dragon | I made one more fix for the USB mode, but still no go |
22:40:11 | [IDC]Dragon | discovered the card detect output to the bridge today |
22:40:29 | [IDC]Dragon | now I use it, but no improvement yet |
22:41:35 | amiconn | I hand-sniped a Studio 10 on eBay this evening :) |
22:41:53 | [IDC]Dragon | PA12 is no chip select, it's a clock gate |
22:41:59 | [IDC]Dragon | congrats! |
22:42:07 | [IDC]Dragon | how much this time? |
22:43:37 | | Part dim ("Trying to get a real life") |
22:43:43 | amiconn | € 95,36 including shipment |
22:43:50 | SmoothOperator | cheers Bjorn |
22:44:04 | [IDC]Dragon | I don't find these very cheap |
22:44:37 | amiconn | I saw Studios go for > 150,- €, Recorders often > 200,- € |
22:44:46 | [IDC]Dragon | phew |
22:45:10 | [IDC]Dragon | Archos should start making them again |
22:46:15 | [IDC]Dragon | can I replace a twiki attachment? |
22:46:44 | Zagor | i think so |
22:47:01 | [IDC]Dragon | is it versioned? (hope not) |
22:47:03 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
22:47:12 | Zagor | yes, click attach and then 'action' for the attachment |
22:47:37 | Zagor | they are versioned, but we have lots of disk space so don't worry |
22:47:38 | SmoothOperator | i cannot believe the ondio lacks a backlight, yet on the Archos website it is pictured showing a blue backlight |
22:47:53 | [IDC]Dragon | is it? |
22:48:12 | [IDC]Dragon | mine definitely has none |
22:48:16 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: Btw, The next three jukebox auctions did end as follows: a Studio20 for € 131,-, a 6000 for 78,77 and another 6000 for 101,10 |
22:48:36 | [IDC]Dragon | I'm not interested |
22:51:09 | [IDC]Dragon | SmoothOperator: interesting that you saw one with a backlight |
22:51:38 | [IDC]Dragon | mine has an empte footprint, and a port line going there |
22:51:49 | [IDC]Dragon | s/empte/empty |
22:52:17 | [IDC]Dragon | around it is space for large SMT components |
22:52:28 | [IDC]Dragon | like inductors would be |
22:52:55 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: If PA12 is a clock gate, I wonder why you measured the clock on both the internal and external flash all the time |
22:52:56 | [IDC]Dragon | (below the CPU, see twiki page) |
22:53:25 | [IDC]Dragon | I wonder if this could be an inverter for EL backlight |
22:54:08 | SmoothOperator | it was on the Archos website |
22:54:13 | SmoothOperator | i think its just a touched up image |
22:55:35 | [IDC]Dragon | amiconn: I will check this again when I have a working MMC |
22:56:34 | [IDC]Dragon | it's indeed strange to AND SCL1 with PA12 |
22:56:48 | [IDC]Dragon | because SCL1 is under CPU control |
22:57:39 | [IDC]Dragon | but wait, SCL is used twice, perhaps we have to block one |
22:57:46 | [IDC]Dragon | anyway, later |
22:57:48 | [IDC]Dragon | cu |
22:57:52 | | Quit [IDC]Dragon () |
23:00 |
23:13:03 | | Join midk [0] (~midk@c66-235-14-120.sea2.cablespeed.com) |
23:22:02 | tboy | would it be possible that you guys could get the ondio |
23:22:15 | tboy | to read/use SD memory cards |
23:22:31 | Zagor | aren't those even different form factors? |
23:22:36 | tboy | don't these use the same slots as mms |
23:22:51 | tboy | well I have one digital camera here at home that supports both |
23:22:56 | Zagor | ok |
23:22:57 | tboy | and it has only one slot |
23:23:10 | tboy | so I guess they must be pretty much the same |
23:23:21 | tboy | regarding form and connector |
23:24:34 | Zagor | i haven't studied any of those standards so I can't say if it's theoretically possible or not |
23:24:46 | tboy | ok |
23:24:55 | Zagor | [idc]dragon probably knows, since he has looked into the ondio |
23:25:00 | tboy | do you have one? |
23:25:07 | tboy | just curious |
23:25:12 | amiconn | tboy: The form factor of sd and mmc are _almost_ the same, and controlling them in the simple mode (spi mode) is identical, but sd cards are thicker (2.1 mm) than mmc cards (1.4 mm), so they don't fit in an mmc only reader |
23:25:31 | tboy | ok |
23:25:50 | tboy | does it not have a backlight |
23:25:57 | tboy | I just read the archos site |
23:26:11 | amiconn | My ondio didn't arrive yet :( |
23:26:26 | tboy | and they don't state that it is backlit but the picture looks like they are |
23:26:40 | tboy | in a blue kinda color |
23:26:46 | tboy | like you guys were talking about |
23:27:11 | tboy | does anyone know if the have a backlight? |
23:27:15 | Zagor | the sp photo is blue but the fm photo is green. suspicious. |
23:27:36 | tboy | yea your right |
23:28:47 | tboy | well we will find out eventually |
23:28:56 | tboy | eventually is the magical word :D |
23:30:05 | Zagor | haha, they have colin mcrae rally for the gmini. :-) |
23:30:41 | tboy | really, which one? |
23:30:57 | Zagor | the 400 |
23:31:38 | Zagor | they are really cranking out new models. there's a gmini xs200 coming too now. |
23:32:22 | tboy | whats that |
23:32:36 | tboy | what's the difference |
23:33:01 | Zagor | http://www.allnet-italia.it/archimag/gminix200.php |
23:33:03 | tboy | looks kinda cool |
23:33:21 | tboy | I once saw a avos 5xx |
23:33:53 | midk | avos 5xx? |
23:34:01 | SmoothOperator | why has archos decided to remove the spdif from its new units? |
23:34:27 | tboy | I'm trying to find the page |
23:34:42 | midk | i see. |
23:34:48 | tboy | yea its that archos av recorder |
23:35:33 | | Quit midk (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
23:36:10 | SmoothOperator | Archos decided to sell the plugins for the old gmini for free |
23:36:29 | Zagor | good move |
23:36:44 | SmoothOperator | i think they tried the "razor blade" tactic but failed |
23:37:00 | | Join midk [0] (~midk@c66-235-14-120.sea2.cablespeed.com) |
23:37:15 | SmoothOperator | sell the gminis cheap to make money selling the expensive plugins |
23:38:25 | tboy | it's what they are doing with printers and ink-cartridges |
23:38:49 | SmoothOperator | and what Gillette does with its razors and blades |
23:38:53 | tboy | yep |
23:38:59 | SmoothOperator | its called "razorblade marketing" |
23:39:04 | tboy | oh ok |
23:39:31 | SmoothOperator | because Gillette started it off |
23:39:31 | Zagor | i'm beginning to think xclef and iriver cooperated creating their players. just look at the xclef remote: http://www.austinv.com/reviews/XClef_HD800/pics/450/r_lcd_main.jpg |
23:40:09 | midk | Zagor, a bit odd, but apart from the lcd it looks pretty different, wouldn't you say? |
23:40:41 | Zagor | the buttons are very alike and even positioned the same |
23:41:04 | pike | I'd bet it's the same lcd inside |
23:45:48 | | Quit midk (Remote closed the connection) |
23:46:27 | tboy | well g'night |
23:47:37 | | Part tboy |
23:52:09 | | Quit SmoothOperator ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
23:54:15 | Zagor | aha, gmini400 uses the Mophun "phone games" platform |
23:54:43 | | Join midk [0] (~midk@c66-235-14-120.sea2.cablespeed.com) |
23:57:58 | Zagor | http://www.mophun.com/developer/main_phones.php?phone_id=21 |