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#rockbox log for 2004-09-19

00:00:16 Quit scott666_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
00:00:50 Part LinusN
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00:19:19 Nick webguest05 is now known as ripnetuk (
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00:27:07 Quit methangas (" HydraIRC -> <- Nine out of ten l33t h4x0rz prefer it")
00:28:46plokDoes taking the cover off the iRiver invalidate the warranty? I can't see anything that says it does or any stickers etc that you need to break...
00:29:31 Part qwm
00:32:45LinusNthere was a sticker on mine
00:34:23dwihno"any attempts to dissect this unit and write your own firmware will void your warranty" ;)
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00:50:07***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:50:16plokHmm.. looked carefully again on my H340.. no sticker.. I might read the box/manual just to make sure.. the H340 uses standard phillips heads screws
01:39:16Zagor 31 files changed, 964 insertions(+), 1151 deletions(-)
01:40:01Zagori think i'll wait with this commit until tomorrow
01:41:37dwihnoGive me a small hint what it is about
01:41:46dwihnoA tiny hint :)
01:42:10Zagorit's my button change we've been discussing a couple of days now
01:42:26Zagorhopefully you won't notice a thing :)
01:42:44dwihnoWell, I'm still running one of the first rombox builds
01:43:46dwihnoIt's great with commits though :)
01:44:37ZagorI don't get the strip. Is it just late or is it there really no punchline?
01:45:40dwihnorewind 5 strips or so
01:46:01dwihnoI think it's awesome :)
01:46:08dwihnoBut then, I'm easy to entertain.
01:55:47Zagorbed time
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02:43:42LinusNtime to sleep, nite all
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11:25:16midkbed, night
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13:03:39tron_hey, everybody
13:31:56 Join Sebulba02 [0] (
13:32:48Sebulba02Hey, does anyone have problems compiling sysfont.c from cvs for a recorder?
13:37:18Sebulba02hmm, apparently having weird box issues. nm
13:40:13tron_apparently not very many ppls. actually here :-)
13:41:12Sebulba02Like 90% of the other channels I'm in, heh
13:41:36uskiSebulba02, try telling what is happening exactly
13:42:16uskiusually when somebody comes accross a "i have a problem" request, people don't like having to ask "what's happening ?", they will answer only if everything is right on the screen :)
13:42:23Sebulba02uski: Well, I just got the daily build working which should be no different than CVS.
13:42:51uskiand what is the problem with CVS ?
13:43:00uskii.e. is there any error message?
13:43:28Sebulba02It tries to compile sysfont.c and get: sysfont.c:19: parse error before "_font_bits" and a slew of other errors.
13:43:55uskitry to see the CVS changelog for this file
13:44:20Sebulba02CVS hasn't changed since the 17th
13:44:37Sebulba02Which baffels me that I can compile the daily from today
13:46:10uskiim not familiar enough with the latest changes to help you, unfortunately
13:46:14Sebulba02I even -dCARP 'd my tree
13:46:27Sebulba02No biggie, the daily worked.
13:49:04tron_btw - I might ask a question as well: I'm thinking of getting an archos, mainly because rockbox exists. A player (studio) would be sufficient, but I'd love the USB2.0. Does anyone know if there are players with USB2.0 around or do I need to get a recorder?
13:53:18Sebulba02I don't even see a place to buy a recorder on their website.
13:53:36Sebulba02Beats me, then.
14:03:29Nibblertron_: recorder has much better output-quality than player (but there is a hardware-mod for player to archieve that)
14:04:24tron_point is that I really don't need to record anything, so that feature is somewhat wasted on me.
14:06:00Nibblerand then... the player does have a crappy display.....
14:07:00Nibblerso its one of 3 features the recorder has, that u dont need :)
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18:13:24Nibbleroops, wrong window....
18:15:47bagawkZagor: there are some issues with the progress bar, and the peakmeter with fonts
18:16:22bagawk1. The progress bar does not cchange size with the font, and makes it overlap into other lines
18:16:49Zagorif you have a big or a small font?
18:16:50bagawk2. The peakmeter does not work with fonts with less than a Y of 5 pixles
18:17:04Zagoryou have a 4-pixel font?
18:17:05bagawki have not tied with a big
18:17:15bagawk, but i have tied with a 4
18:17:43ZagorI'm not sure we should spend much effort or code on supporting 4-pixel fonts
18:18:23Zagorwe could att a limit that won't load it, to avoid confusion
18:18:25bagawkZagor: well the peakmeter would look strange being fot on 4 pixles, and iwas thinking of just it being disabled
18:23:20 Join pillo_ [0] (
18:23:49Zagori think more things will look strange with 4 pixel fonts. file type icons, for example
18:24:09bagawki do not use the icons
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18:34:18 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (
18:34:22Zagoryou don't use 4-pixel fonts either :)
18:34:59[IDC]Dragonhi Zagor
18:35:20[IDC]Dragonhow's your big, fat commit coming along?
18:35:41bagawki like tiny fonts
18:35:42Zagori'll commit it tonight
18:35:51[IDC]Dragonvery nice
18:36:37[IDC]DragonJens found out that the Ondio needs FAT16 more than we thought
18:36:48Zagoryeah, i saw that
18:36:58[IDC]Dragonbecause the internal flash has to be FAT16 in order to boot
18:37:25[IDC]DragonI started looking on how to debug this
18:37:38Zagorsee firmware/test/fat
18:37:55[IDC]Dragonfound i nice tine free tool to mount a disk image file as a drive
18:38:00Zagorit's a simulated ata driver
18:38:15[IDC]Dragonfor Windows, Linux has that already
18:38:21[IDC]DragonI know
18:38:29[IDC]Dragonworking on a file
18:39:17Zagorand a bunch of test cases
18:39:26[IDC]Dragonso now I can mount that file under windows
18:39:58Zagoreverything is so diffcult in windows... ;)
18:40:09[IDC]Dragondon't tell me...
18:40:31[IDC]DragonI'll have to build a simulator which includes all the file system code
18:40:32bagawkZagor: sometimes i say the same about *nix
18:40:56Zagorbagawk: but not about programming, i bet
18:41:08[IDC]Dragonnot stopping at the POSIX layer
18:41:20bagawkZagor: no, most of my problems come from X
18:41:38Zagor[IDC]Dragon: why don't you use the test code we already have?
18:41:42[IDC]DragonLee: do you know you started all that Ondio business?
18:41:58[IDC]DragonZagor: yes, I will
18:41:59bagawk[IDC]Dragon: yes
18:42:30[IDC]DragonI just have to shape up a project file
18:46:05[IDC]DragonZagor: can you tell me some buzzwords for possible issues porting to FAT16?
18:46:40[IDC]DragonI looked into it a bit, only found slightly different stuff
18:47:13[IDC]Dragonand, of course, the tables having 16 bit entries instead of 32 bit.
18:48:16Zagori don't remember. it was a while since I looked at it.
18:50:12Zagorthe root directory is handled differently. in fat32 it's like any other dir, but in fat16 it's special entity
18:50:26***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:51:07[IDC]DragonI'm just reading that, yes, horrible
18:53:07Zagoroff to cook dinner. bbl
18:54:18bagawkwhat do Swedish people eat for dinner?
18:54:34[IDC]Dragonfish, I guess
18:57:36 Join JK2 [0] (
18:58:44JK2anyone got a Gmini ? :)
18:59:11bagawkJK2: not me, but you can join #gmemu for people that do
18:59:56JK2ahh, smooth
19:00:22JK2how about the AV things, anyone got one of them? :)
19:02:39bagawknot me, but people in #avos, and #linav do
19:06:25bagawk[IDC]Dragon: what is Zagor "big commit"?
19:20:53 Join amiconn [0] (
19:34:30bagawkhey amiconn
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19:38:40amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Do you read?
19:41:23bagawktiem to go
19:41:46 Quit bagawk ("umount /dev/brain")
20:07:25JK2anyone got a AV ? :)
20:11:35tron_Ok, I'll probably get a Recorder 20. Does anyone know whether it works with Linux? I mean, not every ide2usb-chip works well...
20:12:25dwihnoit works like a charm
20:12:41dwihnohallelujah for usb mass storage compliance! \o/
20:13:17tron_Nice to know. I have a NeoCar-jukebox (maybe someone knows this) and the usb-chip is, lets say, rather incompatible.
20:14:06JK2do they still sell the Recorders now the Gmini is out?
20:14:21JK2I know they did a slight face lighted version
20:14:24tron_Anyone into the different versions? If I'm getting an used Recorder20, is it sure to have USB2.0? I heard that the "15" were available in both.
20:14:38tron_yes, they do. At least I found it in several online-shops.
20:15:25JK2tron_: mine is a definite USB2 and I bought it over a year ago
20:16:18tron_thanks, then I'm likely to get one that does.
20:16:22JK2think the older version looks better than this :
20:16:32JK2my recorder has black rubbers anyway :)#
20:17:27JK2says USB2.0 clearly enough at the bottom :)
20:18:05tron_the ones I find are these:
20:18:41JK2same as mine, yours might arrive with l33t black rubbers, lol
20:18:46tron_which also state 2.0, if one has a closer look :-)
20:20:12tron_I don't think that the color of the rubber edges will be /that/ important.
20:20:16JK2why not get a Gmini though?
20:21:10JK2lol, indeed, aruging over the aesthetics of what is basically their first design in a bit bizzare
20:21:17tron_more expensive/not compatible with rockbox.
20:21:25JK2it's like saying my house-brick has rounder edges than yours ;)
20:21:49JK2they have their own firmware group now -
20:23:47ZagorJK2: have they actually ran any code on the gmini yet? i can only find an emulator.
20:24:02Zagornot that there's anything wrong with that, just curious
20:34:54JK2yup, gromit`aw has one loaded with it I think
20:34:59JK2he was just testing an .mp2 for me
20:39:29JK2anyone running an iRiver btw?
20:39:54Zagoryou mean right now?
20:41:38tron_my girlfriend has an iriver.
20:42:01Zagori hope to buy a broken one tomorrow :)
20:46:23JK2ahh, should be interesting
20:46:34JK2is rockbox up and running for the iRiver yet?
20:48:32[IDC]Dragonamiconn: now I'm here
20:49:05amiconnOn friday I tried some commands on the mmc.
20:49:20amiconnNo luck yet (get different answers every time)
20:49:31 Join _aLEX [0] (
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20:49:38amiconnBut I found some more things that might be interesting
20:49:39[IDC]Dragonno luck as a commander?
20:49:45dwihno"Hello, MMC" : "You want cheeseburgers with those?"
20:50:12dwihno"How are you, MMC?" : "La la la. Ducks in the pond"
20:50:15amiconn[IDC]Dragon: The original firmware _does_ use DMA, but also incorporates polling routines
20:50:28***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:50:35[IDC]Dragonlike you also intended?
20:51:03amiconn(2) There must be different models of the Ondio, distinguishable by the mask, which have a different clock gate circuit
20:51:31[IDC]Dragonyes, we need more users
20:53:48[IDC]Dragonour PCB is v2.22, suggesting quite a history
20:53:52amiconnQuestion: Is PA13 really connected to pin *9* of the mmc? Iirc there are only seven pins...
20:54:12[IDC]Dragonthe ready/busy pin?
20:54:20ZagorJK2: no that while take a while
20:55:39[IDC]Dragonamiconn: that pin is "extra", not used for MMC
20:55:57[IDC]Dragonbut perhaps for SDI/O
20:56:24[IDC]Dragonan extension, where the card can signal for attention
20:56:31amiconnSD does not fit (tried it), so the socket is mmc only
20:56:46[IDC]Dragonuses by non-memory devices
20:56:50amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Yes. I presume that you mean pin 7, which is data out, and the card will hold DO low as long as it is busy, which is basically the same thing that the busy pin of the internal flash does. Makes sense?
20:57:25[IDC]Dragonno, it's an extra pin where the diagonal cut is
20:57:37amiconnAh, so it does not make sense
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20:57:54JK2bbl :)
20:58:00 Quit JK2 ()
20:58:16amiconn[IDC]Dragon: I have a suggestion how we could handle the 2-disk problem for browsing
20:58:40Zagora top-level with two disk "folders"?
20:58:53amiconnWe could do that unix-like, with the internal flash being the root, and "mounting", the MMC under /mmc
20:58:55scott666[raid0? :-)]
20:59:18[IDC]Dragonworking on 2 volumes has issues, I guess
20:59:27Zagoramiconn: i believe doing it windows-like would be more easily understood by many users
20:59:31amiconnThat would work because the internal flash is always there
20:59:37[IDC]Dragonlike, having files open on both at the same time
21:00:07amiconnYes, the fat driver would need to be multi-volume aware
21:00:36[IDC]Dragonlet's first make it FAT16-aware :-)
21:00:37amiconn...and the file descriptor structure has to remember the disk
21:01:04scott666Zagor: isnt the only main difference calling the folders A: and B:?
21:02:06Zagorscott666: my point is that people are now used to having a "my computer" level where they can see all their available disks, and browse them. I do not advocate using C: D: names, just the top level.
21:02:17amiconn[IDC]Dragon: A different matter: my next toy has arrived (JB Studio)...
21:02:30[IDC]Dragonah, congrats!
21:02:42[IDC]Dragonnow you need a flash solder job...
21:03:03amiconnSo now I have to decide between hacking the Ondio, the Studio flashing, or the recording issues...
21:03:04Zagorthere are actually only tree variables in the fat driver that needs to be duplicated for a second volume
21:04:09Zagor...and adding a volume number to struct fat_file doesn't require much change either
21:04:32amiconnThe recording issues are really hard to grasp. I don't get hangs with SPDIF recording as Paul does. However, I found via some statistics a possible cause for the problems. Have to do somre more recordings and calculations to confirm this
21:04:33[IDC]Dragonok, nice
21:04:38scott666Zagor: so you want an extra folder-like (MyJB?) object with the 2 drive folders inside it?
21:05:02Zagorscott666: yes, i think that is the most intuitive concept
21:05:06amiconnZagor: I'd prefer the unix approach, by we could even make it configurable ;)
21:05:21[IDC]Dragonamiconn: is your player flashable?
21:05:33Zagori think the unix approach would be confusing for people who don't know the unix concept (i.e. the majority of users)
21:05:52scott666exposure to unix isnt a bad thing
21:05:53amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Didn't put rockbox on it yet. Just got it this evening, and it needs some charging first.
21:06:07ZagorI like the unix concept, but I know it confuses people the first time they encounter it.
21:06:24Zagoralso it would make it impossible to add a directory called mmc to the flash :)
21:06:29scott666but if we can get the learning curve low enough that wont matter
21:06:47amiconnZagor: Although I'm mainly a Windows user (and Amiga), I prefer the unix approach
21:06:53Zagorscott666: why have a concept you have to explain, when you can have one everyone will immediately understand?
21:07:40scott666are you sure all *nix users will find the My Computer thing intuitive?
21:08:29scott666ive always used windows (for the most part anyway) and ive always hated My*
21:08:39scott666but maybe thats just me :-)
21:08:54Zagorwell forget I called it "like windows". just think of it as two drives mounted in the root directory.
21:09:27scott666i thought that was where we were already at?
21:10:03Zagorin an otherwise empty root directory
21:10:12Zagornot the flash disk root
21:10:58Zagoramiconn, [IDC]Dragon: there's no remote control for the ondio, is it?
21:11:26amiconnNone that we are aware of, and a remote wouldn't make much sense for such a small device
21:13:03amiconnDisk in my new Studio: Hitachi DK23DA... hello rlod!
21:14:55dwihnoamiconn: it's a wonderful feature! :)
21:14:55[IDC]DragonZagor: no, the serial is not avail.
21:16:05amiconnZagor: Did someone test your new button handling on a player yet?
21:18:01Zagornot, i've only done it in the sim. there seems to be something wrong with the usb connection on my player.
21:18:12Zagorwant to try?
21:20:08amiconnI could do it, as I now have such a beast
21:21:04amiconnThere is approx. 1 GB of data in the /recycled folder...
21:21:15amiconnPictures, mp3s...
21:21:32Zagorcredit card numbers, bank accounts... ;)
21:23:43[IDC]Dragongotta reboot, c u
21:23:48 Quit [IDC]Dragon ()
21:26:47 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (
21:28:17amiconnTsstss... When do people learn how to *delete* stuff
21:30:10Sebulba02Some never do..
21:30:26Sebulba02Some do on accident.
21:30:44Sebulba02And the rest out of necessity.
21:31:06[IDC]Dragongrr, another reboot (debugging my TV-out)
21:31:12 Quit [IDC]Dragon ()
21:33:55Zagoramiconn: have you ever used the player model before?
21:34:19amiconnStill copying data... usb 1.1 is sloooow
21:36:49 Join AciD [0] (
21:38:06amiconnZagor: I'll try "ordinary" rockbox before, and then your test build
21:48:17 Join tomladtk [0] (tom@
21:48:37tomladtki was on rockbox and it mentioned archos... just wondering what that is
21:48:53tomladtki have an iriver h140 and im looking for some replacement firmware
21:49:05tomladtkmaybe make it do some stuff that iriver couldent make it do
21:49:10tomladtkanyone online here?
21:50:36 Join webguest28 [0] (
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21:53:28tomladtkemail me if u can answer my questino
21:53:34 Quit tomladtk ()
21:55:28amiconnZagor: With current cvs, I'm unable to change the volume from wps on the player...
21:56:55amiconnAh, got it.
22:15:30amiconnZagor: There is a bug with your new button handling:
22:16:34amiconnIf you use menu+left/right to adjust the volume from the wps, after releasing the menu button the menu pops up. It does not do that with cvs
22:17:55amiconn(2) keylock and mute don't work
22:18:06amiconn(but we can toss mute)
22:18:27amiconnZagor: Tried it on recorder?
22:32:09Zagoryes I have
22:33:43Zagorso menu+stop does not lock the keys in wps?
22:34:30amiconnHmm. Now it does. Strange
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22:35:25Zagorit has probably become a bit more sensitive, it does not lock on MENU|repeat+down
22:35:46Zagorfixing the menu popup...
22:41:35Zagornew test:
22:50:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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22:55:09amiconnZagor: Menu does still pop up...
23:01:56 Quit methan-yarg (" HydraIRC -> <- *I* use it, so it must be good!")
23:06:42Zagori need to work some more on the player volume display
23:14:57amiconnZagor: Btw: The version string still tells the same date & time as your last test
23:15:15Zagoryes, i only recompiled affected files
23:15:25amiconnAh ok
23:16:23 Quit tron_ (Remote closed the connection)
23:16:59Zagorcan you try again now?
23:20:24amiconnIt works now
23:20:39Zagorgood. any other quirks you can find?
23:23:24amiconnJust found one: When you enter info->version, and then leave with "stop" you should be back in the info menu. However, you jump back up to the main menu
23:23:56amiconn...if you don't press stop _very_ short. This doesn't happen with cvs
23:26:08amiconnBtw: Do your button changes include the new button assignments for the Ondio?
23:29:42amiconnYou should start a survey on the ml whether volume & skip should be swapped on the player. I'd vote "yes"
23:29:53Zagoryeah, so would I
23:33:29amiconnOtherwise, rockbox operation with the limited keys & display are rather logical, much better than with archos fw... :)
23:34:36ZagorI'd hope so :)
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23:36:22Zagorok i'll commit this code now to get more testing. i assume we'll find a few more places I've missed.
23:36:25amiconnRe Jörg! That was a loong reboot ;)
23:36:40[IDC]Dragonmany of them
23:36:51[IDC]Dragonand no improvement
23:37:07amiconnWhat are you trying to do?
23:37:15[IDC]DragonI want to create a screen resolution 768*576
23:37:38[IDC]Dragonthis was working before
23:37:49amiconnRe your questions: Player does work fine, but unfortunately isn't flashable out of the box
23:38:05[IDC]Dragon"out of the box", haha
23:38:53[IDC]Dragonyou know that I had very limited luck with uart boot mod and Players
23:39:02amiconnI know
23:39:25amiconnAnyway, Ondio hacking does have a higher priority
23:39:54[IDC]Dragonand recording?
23:40:13amiconnThe recording is a weird thing
23:40:27[IDC]DragonI must say I didn't follow that story
23:41:09amiconnI don't get the problems with spdif that Paul has. However, I found some interesting thing about the mas:
23:43:14amiconnIt seems that if you are encoding with highest quality (7), stereo, high sample rate, _and_ crc protection & m/s stereo encoding are active at the same time, the mas delivers much more defective frames than if either of these 2 options is off
23:43:47amiconnIt seems that within these conditions, the processing capabilities of the mas reach their limit
23:44:39amiconnRockbox 2.2 has crc protection off (by mistake), but m/s stereo on. This produces a few corrupt frames
23:45:24amiconnArchos firmware has crc protection on, but m/s stereo off (on purpose?). This also produces a few corrupt frames
23:46:24amiconnHowever, if both features are on (rockbox cvs), the mas delivers much more corrupt frames. If I switch m/s stereo off, the error rate drops to (approximately) that of the archos fw
23:48:59[IDC]Dragondumb question: what's m/s stereo?
23:51:37ZagorMid/Side stereo, isn't it? althought I'm not sure how it differs from Joint stereo
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23:53:36amiconn_Whoops! Cut myself from irc...
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23:56:50Zagorok, "joint stereo" simply means any method to reduces stereo into less than two full datatreams. mp3 uses two different encoding modes for this: "m/s stereo" and "intensity stereo"
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23:57:34Zagorinstensity is generally only used in low bitrates (<96kbps)
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