| 00:18:50 | scott666 | iRiverMan: its possible; what do you want to know? |
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| 03:03:48 | bagawk | hallo hallo :) (for you Germans...) |
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| 06:41:52 | Dujodu | just out of curiosity... what type of programming is required for the iRiver rockbox? |
| 06:41:58 | Dujodu | is it C? |
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| 07:13:26 | LinusN | Dujodu: yes, it is mostly C |
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| 08:00 |
| 08:01:25 | [IDC]Dragon | this philips tuner gives me a hard time to find out if tuned |
| 08:02:51 | LinusN | oh |
| 08:04:07 | Dujodu | are you guys busy right now? |
| 08:05:01 | [IDC]Dragon | I am |
| 08:05:13 | Dujodu | heh, alright |
| 08:05:29 | Dujodu | I just had some stupid questions that are probably too complex to answer with one liners |
| 08:05:43 | LinusN | Dujodu: shoot |
| 08:06:01 | LinusN | [IDC]Dragon: IF measurement doesn't work? |
| 08:06:16 | Dujodu | I was just kind of curious as to the process of creating the firmware for something like the iRiver |
| 08:06:32 | Dujodu | how do you test it? do you have to compile and load it onto the player for each change? |
| 08:07:16 | LinusN | Dujodu: the major parts of the code can be tested on the pc |
| 08:07:23 | Dujodu | cool |
| 08:07:31 | LinusN | for instance, the mp3 decoder is pure C |
| 08:08:03 | LinusN | and we have a simulator that can simulate the LCD, buttons etc |
| 08:08:07 | Dujodu | ah |
| 08:08:14 | LinusN | so we an write the GUI code on the pc |
| 08:08:38 | LinusN | however, all drivers must of course be tested on the device itself |
| 08:09:07 | Dujodu | I find it amazing that you guys can create a new firmware for something like that |
| 08:09:20 | Dujodu | I wouldn't even know where to begin something like that |
| 08:09:26 | LinusN | well, it isn't trivial, but it's damn fun |
| 08:09:32 | Dujodu | lol, I can imagine |
| 08:10:03 | LinusN | one really hard part is the reverse engineering |
| 08:10:25 | LinusN | since we have no documentation on how the hardware is designed |
| 08:10:34 | Dujodu | the thing I don't understand is how you can interface with the hardware |
| 08:10:46 | Dujodu | how do you know what code will actually trigger stuff for the hardware? |
| 08:10:49 | LinusN | that's where the broken iriver was of real help |
| 08:11:15 | LinusN | we stripped it into pieces to find out how the hardware was connected, and drew schematics |
| 08:11:49 | Dujodu | are there standards for controlling hardware like that or something? |
| 08:12:00 | LinusN | sort of |
| 08:12:26 | LinusN | the CPU is well documented, so many things are self-evident |
| 08:12:46 | Dujodu | because the CPU is just a part that iriver purchased from some supplier? |
| 08:12:50 | Dujodu | it isn't unique to the iriver? |
| 08:12:53 | LinusN | all parts are |
| 08:13:08 | LinusN | that's why we chose to work on the iriver |
| 08:13:19 | LinusN | all parts are off-the-shelf chips |
| 08:13:23 | Dujodu | ah |
| 08:13:44 | Dujodu | that's awesome |
| 08:14:14 | Dujodu | what, besides c, would you have to know to take on a project like this? |
| 08:14:15 | LinusN | that's why the iPod or Karma isn't attractive to us |
| 08:14:34 | LinusN | you need lots of knowledge about hardware |
| 08:15:00 | LinusN | and quite some experience of low-level asm/c programming |
| 08:15:24 | Dujodu | I have none of those requirements, but it's interesting as hell.. lol |
| 08:15:58 | LinusN | you can learn a lot just by hanging around here, and reading the stuff on the rockbox site |
| 08:16:27 | Dujodu | I just purchased an iRiver, so I'll probably be doing that |
| 08:16:33 | LinusN | 140? |
| 08:16:37 | Dujodu | yeah |
| 08:16:45 | Dujodu | actually I'm about to purchase one |
| 08:16:48 | LinusN | ah |
| 08:16:49 | Dujodu | any minute now |
| 08:16:50 | Dujodu | lol |
| 08:17:04 | Dujodu | I've been researching players for like 2 weeks, finally decided on the h140 |
| 08:17:12 | Dujodu | since I don't really need the features of the h340 |
| 08:18:41 | Dujodu | how long have you guys been working on the rockbox for the iriver? |
| 08:19:15 | LinusN | hmmm |
| 08:20:32 | LinusN | you could say that we initiated the project in early september |
| 08:20:57 | LinusN | but other people have done other work long before that |
| 08:21:01 | Dujodu | ah |
| 08:21:12 | Dujodu | do most of you have some sort of degree in computer science, or are you self taught? |
| 08:21:20 | LinusN | i'm self taught |
| 08:21:47 | LinusN | in fact, many of us are self taught |
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| 08:21:58 | Dujodu | cool, you must learn a hell of a lot from doing this type of stuff |
| 08:22:04 | LinusN | absolutely |
| 08:23:10 | | Join adiamas [0] (~chatzilla@host-64-179-64-18.alb.choiceone.net) |
| 08:23:22 | Dujodu | alright, I gotta get some sleep |
| 08:23:30 | Dujodu | thanks for the chat |
| 08:23:36 | Dujodu | I'm sure I'll return |
| 08:23:42 | Dujodu | if not just to read what you guys talk about |
| 08:23:47 | LinusN | cu |
| 08:23:53 | Dujodu | see ya |
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| 08:24:16 | adiamas | hey linus... long time .. |
| 08:24:22 | LinusN | yo man |
| 08:24:48 | adiamas | hows life these days? |
| 08:24:57 | LinusN | it sucks as usual :-) |
| 08:25:25 | adiamas | lol... |
| 08:25:34 | adiamas | 'any day above ground is a good one' |
| 08:25:48 | adiamas | im playing with this chatzilla extension for firefox.. |
| 08:25:51 | adiamas | this thing kicks butt |
| 08:26:32 | LinusN | nice, i have never tried it |
| 08:27:02 | adiamas | hmm... i wasn't asked to identify myself when i signed on... |
| 08:27:08 | adiamas | i wonder if my nick expired |
| 08:27:26 | adiamas | yup.. not registered |
| 08:29:19 | adiamas | lol... |
| 08:29:24 | adiamas | info on the channel.. lol |
| 08:29:43 | adiamas | adi|home last seen 1year 3 weeks 6 days ago |
| 08:30:07 | | Nick adiamas is now known as adi|home (~chatzilla@host-64-179-64-18.alb.choiceone.net) |
| 08:32:37 | Mode | "#rockbox +o adi|home " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 08:33:32 | Mode | "#rockbox -o adi|home " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 08:34:43 | adi|home | the rockbox email address.. is that now rockbox@rockbox.org? |
| 08:35:46 | | Nick adi|home is now known as adiamas (~chatzilla@host-64-179-64-18.alb.choiceone.net) |
| 08:37:12 | LinusN | "the email address"? |
| 08:37:21 | LinusN | you mean the mailing list? |
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| 08:49:58 | lImbus | hi all |
| 08:50:24 | [IDC]Dragon | 'morning |
| 08:51:17 | lImbus | somebody here able to tell me why I'm not able to compile (/ld) my simbuild anymore, so I can get back in some rockbox-develpment ? |
| 08:51:29 | lImbus | LD /home/guest/simbuild/rockboxui.exe => gives a few pages of errors |
| 08:51:32 | | Join adiamas [0] (~chatzilla@host-64-179-64-18.alb.choiceone.net) |
| 08:51:47 | lImbus | like /home/guest/simbuild/tree.o(.text+0xf8): In function `check_rockboxdir': |
| 08:52:13 | lImbus | home/guest/uisimulator/win32/../../apps/tree.c:125: undefined reference to `_sim_opendir' |
| 08:53:34 | lImbus | [IDC]Dragon: I ordered an ondio fm rec, waiting for it to arrive. if you're looking for somebody to tryout something, you can always ask me. |
| 08:55:32 | [IDC]Dragon | ok, let's see wgich one you get. please report the h/w mask |
| 08:56:07 | lImbus | yup, that was my intend |
| 08:57:00 | LinusN | lImbus: reconfigure the simulator |
| 08:57:23 | lImbus | already done. I created a new destination directory a few times now |
| 08:57:25 | | Join oxygen77 [0] (~Chris@pauguste-7-82-66-87-78.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 08:58:39 | LinusN | lImbus: and you have the latest cvs version? |
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| 08:59:20 | lImbus | sure. that's what I completely dont understand. daily build says it's ok. but it's not ON windows/cygwin, isn't it ? |
| 09:00 |
| 09:00:41 | LinusN | i just compiled the latest cvs on my cygwin installation, worked fine |
| 09:01:03 | lImbus | ld is the linker, right ? |
| 09:01:06 | LinusN | yes |
| 09:01:12 | | Quit adiamas ("Chatzilla 0.9.65 [Mozilla rv:1.7.3/20040913]") |
| 09:01:37 | lImbus | I'll send you all the output in a pm if you don't mind |
| 09:01:46 | LinusN | it won't help me |
| 09:01:56 | LinusN | what are your changes to the source? |
| 09:02:08 | lImbus | so it doesn't for me :-/ |
| 09:02:41 | lImbus | my changes ? very few. the normal recorder build I just flashed to my device works, and I certainly didn't change anything on the sim |
| 09:03:47 | LinusN | when did it stop working? |
| 09:04:35 | lImbus | cvs tells me I didn't change any file (that came from cvs) beneath /uisimulator, except from a io.c which seems to be obsolete in the meantime, I already deleted (and deleted io.d) |
| 09:05:13 | lImbus | it stopped working a few weeks ago, when I had absolutely no time to look at it. no I notice it was not due to any of the things I can imaginge. |
| 09:05:29 | lImbus | s/. no/. now |
| 09:06:30 | lImbus | I am taking an ooooold tarball, let's see |
| 09:06:55 | [IDC]Dragon | Philips tunes better now |
| 09:07:25 | [IDC]Dragon | LinusN: is it intended to leave the tuner running when exiting the radio screen? |
| 09:09:41 | | Quit einhirn (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 09:11:38 | lImbus | LinusN: tarball of 19-09 at least ld's and builds the grayscale lib afterwards. it fails on "ranlib" (not found) later, but I don't get that far with my current cvs |
| 09:11:38 | LinusN | [IDC]Dragon: yes and no |
| 09:12:14 | LinusN | it is on if you leave with ON, and off if you leave with OFF |
| 09:12:38 | LinusN | lImbus: are you using bc:s lean-and-mean cygwin installation? |
| 09:12:44 | [IDC]Dragon | ah |
| 09:12:52 | lImbus | LinusN: yup |
| 09:13:13 | LinusN | lImbus: maybe ranlib isn't included? |
| 09:13:42 | lImbus | maybe. but this breaks the old build, not the current ones. |
| 09:13:52 | LinusN | lImbus: i have no idea why it doesn't work for you |
| 09:14:00 | LinusN | it works for me |
| 09:14:54 | LinusN | so there must be something that differs your installation from mine |
| 09:15:32 | lImbus | i got definitely no ranlib |
| 09:17:13 | | Join einhirn [0] (Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de) |
| 09:18:01 | LinusN | it should still be able to link rockboxui.exe |
| 09:18:17 | lImbus | that's what confuses me. |
| 09:18:18 | | Quit einhirn (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 09:18:57 | lImbus | ranlib is mentioned in the makefile of 19-09 and of today. |
| 09:22:21 | | Join einhirn [0] (Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de) |
| 09:31:15 | lImbus | LinusN, if you use bc's cygwin, how did you get ranlib into it ? which cygwin-pack is it in ? I am just looking for it. |
| 09:32:36 | | Join pillo [0] (~trillian@navlab03.dei.unipd.it) |
| 09:38:56 | LinusN | lImbus: i don't use bc:s cygwin package |
| 09:39:21 | LinusN | i use the real thing |
| 09:39:41 | lImbus | :) |
| 09:41:24 | lImbus | btw, my attempt ti update binutils failed. |
| 09:41:32 | lImbus | s/ti/to |
| 09:42:59 | lImbus | but ranlib is installed and the ooooold build builds/links/works. |
| 09:45:04 | [IDC]Dragon | LinusN: what's supposed to happen if the radio screen enters/leaves USB mode? |
| 09:49:17 | LinusN | the radio plays on |
| 09:49:46 | | Join kurzhaarrocker [0] (~knoppix@p50876EB6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:50:14 | LinusN | mostly because i haven't bothered to shut off the radio when it happens |
| 09:50:30 | lImbus | LinusN: make clean after cygwin-update IS mandatory :-) |
| 09:50:37 | lImbus | looks like it works now ! |
| 09:50:40 | [IDC]Dragon | but you do a radio_set_status(0) in case SYS_USB_CONNECTED: |
| 09:50:45 | LinusN | it probably shuts off when leaving, since that is done by exiting the radio screen "the normal way" |
| 09:51:00 | [IDC]Dragon | so this is redundant |
| 09:51:04 | LinusN | lImbus: you haven't tried "make clean" until now? |
| 09:51:26 | lImbus | sure. |
| 09:51:31 | LinusN | [IDC]Dragon: probably |
| 09:51:44 | LinusN | i haven't put that much effort in the fm code... |
| 09:52:19 | lImbus | LinusN, I had completely new /simbuild/ directories to. but not SINCE the cygwin-update at 9:41 |
| 09:53:29 | LinusN | lImbus: ok |
| 09:55:11 | kurzhaarrocker | Yesterday I recorded > 2h continuously with paul_rectest1.ajz. I don't find any audiable problems. Are there any analysis tools I should run on the recording? |
| 09:55:54 | LinusN | there are a few tools out there, but according to amiconn, they all suck :-) |
| 09:56:02 | LinusN | try fixvbr |
| 10:00 |
| 10:01:46 | kurzhaarrocker | (I assume you mean the windows toll vbrfix) |
| 10:02:02 | kurzhaarrocker | toll = tool |
| 10:03:22 | kurzhaarrocker | It didn't report any errors |
| 10:05:52 | [IDC]Dragon | LinusN: the preset menu is currently broken |
| 10:06:01 | kurzhaarrocker | mp3fixer does find bad frames |
| 10:06:06 | [IDC]Dragon | I can't figure out how why |
| 10:06:13 | LinusN | [IDC]Dragon: isn't that wonderful? |
| 10:06:30 | LinusN | [IDC]Dragon: what happens? |
| 10:06:31 | [IDC]Dragon | pressing F2 shows it, releasing F2 exits immediately |
| 10:06:49 | LinusN | i know what it is, i'll fix it |
| 10:07:00 | [IDC]Dragon | but I can't operate it while holding F2 ;-) |
| 10:08:35 | [IDC]Dragon | if there is something to be changed in radio.c, better tell me than commit it |
| 10:08:49 | [IDC]Dragon | 'cos I'm working in that file |
| 10:09:37 | LinusN | hang on |
| 10:10:16 | LinusN | i thought i fixed that long ago |
| 10:12:01 | LinusN | [IDC]Dragon: check the callback functions handle_radio_presets_menu_cb() and handle_radio_presets_cb() |
| 10:12:58 | LinusN | they try to filter button events, but the guy who added the FM_xxx button macros didn't change the callback functions |
| 10:16:01 | [IDC]Dragon | the not-to-be named guy? ;-) |
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| 10:18:11 | | Quit lImbus (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 10:20:52 | LinusN | [IDC]Dragon: i won't tell :-) |
| 10:21:11 | kurzhaarrocker | VOLDEMORT |
| 10:21:23 | [IDC]Dragon | I committed my stuff now, so any UI fix can go ontop of that |
| 10:24:05 | LinusN | [IDC]Dragon: what was the problem with the philips tuner if measurement? |
| 10:31:38 | [IDC]Dragon | it has to state "ready", plus I was fooling myself |
| 10:39:55 | [IDC]Dragon | bbl |
| 10:39:59 | | Quit [IDC]Dragon () |
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| 11:00 |
| 11:02:48 | Zagor | is there an easy way to toggle emacs' line-wrapping? |
| 11:03:16 | Zagor | so a single buffer acts like a ^x-3 buffer |
| 11:04:04 | LinusN | i have no idea |
| 11:04:46 | Bagder | I believe there is, but I can't remember how |
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| 11:09:48 | | Part ashridah |
| 11:10:42 | LinusN | Zagor: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-emacs-windows/2002-12/msg00008.html |
| 11:13:59 | LinusN | "set the buffer-local variable "truncate-lines" to "nil" for this buffer" |
| 11:14:26 | LinusN | sorry, to "t" |
| 11:15:13 | LinusN | that works |
| 11:15:31 | LinusN | set-variable truncates-lines to "t" |
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| 11:18:17 | Zagor | nice, thanks |
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| 12:00 |
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| 13:00 |
| 13:29:54 | kurzhaarrocker | If anybody cares he might fix this bug (patch included) https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1049956&group_id=44306&atid=439118 |
| 13:39:59 | LinusN | kurzhaarrocker: done |
| 13:40:11 | kurzhaarrocker | :D \o/ |
| 13:44:59 | kurzhaarrocker | LinusN: That was 11 minutes from bug report to fixing and closing the bug. Smells like a record! |
| 13:46:28 | LinusN | :-) |
| 14:00 |
| 14:03:14 | dwihno | \o/ |
| 14:22:33 | [IDC]Dragon | and the radio screen is fixed, too :-) |
| 14:24:00 | [IDC]Dragon | I have seen very little user reports about the button quirks. We had to find most of it ourselves. Is nobody using up-to-date builds these days? |
| 14:24:42 | Lynx_ | Are there any major features that are only in the builds from the last few weeks? |
| 14:25:15 | kurzhaarrocker | No triggered recording yet, Lynx_ :( |
| 14:36:24 | | Join elinenbe [0] (~elinenbe_@65.115.46.225) |
| 14:43:12 | LinusN | Lynx_: mostly ondio features |
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| 14:59:20 | *** | No seen item changed, no save performed. |
| 15:00 |
| 15:01:46 | [IDC]Dragon | Lynx_: and the things we broke on the way, we need you to find them |
| 15:06:35 | * | Zagor announces the feature freeze |
| 15:06:41 | midk | nooooooooooooooooooo |
| 15:06:43 | midk | :) |
| 15:07:08 | kurzhaarrocker | I thought that was announced already yesterday |
| 15:07:17 | Zagor | not on the mailing list |
| 15:17:07 | kurzhaarrocker | Grr. Again I'm to late to have triggered recording included :) |
| 15:19:12 | Zagor | I know we say this every time, but let's try to release sooner next time |
| 15:19:29 | Bagder | I think we should set a date |
| 15:19:48 | Zagor | that's probably a good idea. how about once every two months? |
| 15:20:00 | Zagor | or more often? |
| 15:20:07 | Bagder | nah, two months sounds fine to me |
| 15:20:25 | kurzhaarrocker | more often would be nearly daily build. |
| 15:20:57 | Zagor | so lets aim for christmas then |
| 15:21:09 | kurzhaarrocker | :) |
| 15:21:58 | kurzhaarrocker | And a regular feature freeze a week before release? |
| 15:22:34 | Zagor | well if we announce a target date well in advance, hopefully people don't commit experimental code the last few days anyway |
| 15:23:36 | kurzhaarrocker | Don't worry, I don't have cvs write access anyway :) |
| 15:25:21 | * | LinusN has lots of nice iriver code to commit.... |
| 15:27:04 | * | elinenbe is curious as to what that code does? |
| 15:27:14 | Zagor | if it doesn't affect the archos code, I think you can go ahead and commit |
| 15:27:28 | * | elinenbe chants "commit! commit! commit!" |
| 15:27:59 | kurzhaarrocker | elinenbe: Do you own an iriver? |
| 15:28:27 | LinusN | i know, i'll just make it work before i commit :-) |
| 15:28:45 | Bagder | chicken |
| 15:28:47 | Bagder | ;-) |
| 15:28:55 | elinenbe | kurzhaarrocker: I bought one with high hopes for this project! :) |
| 15:29:25 | * | kurzhaarrocker waits until LinusN commits before buying one :) |
| 15:29:29 | Bagder | Zagor: we should shortcut the db thread by trying to get some actual use cases for the id3 db browser instead |
| 15:29:41 | * | elinenbe laughs! |
| 15:29:46 | Bagder | this meta talk is killing me |
| 15:30:16 | Bagder | does anyone know how for example the ipod db browser works? |
| 15:30:45 | elinenbe | Bagder: I do. |
| 15:30:45 | Zagor | i asked, but never got a response |
| 15:31:32 | Bagder | elinenbe: is it good? |
| 15:31:48 | elinenbe | http://hercules.gcsu.edu/~flowney/MERLOT2002/iPod/ |
| 15:31:51 | elinenbe | people seem to love it. |
| 15:32:02 | Bagder | ipod users, yes |
| 15:32:04 | elinenbe | that is a good example −− although the newest version has composers too. |
| 15:32:12 | Bagder | but ipod users love everything apple does |
| 15:32:35 | Bagder | that's why I want someone not attached to an ipod to comment it ;-) |
| 15:33:01 | Bagder | hm, no quicktime plugin |
| 15:33:11 | elinenbe | it's pretty nice. |
| 15:33:21 | elinenbe | with the scroll wheel you can get to a song very quicly |
| 15:34:22 | elinenbe | http://www.apple.com/ipod/ |
| 15:34:36 | Zagor | elinenbe: that quicktime animation is nice, but a bit confusing. does it automatically start the first song of an album when you select it. don't you ever get to see the songs? |
| 15:35:00 | elinenbe | http://www.apple.com/ipod/musicandmore.html |
| 15:35:09 | elinenbe | if you browse by album |
| 15:35:13 | elinenbe | you see the albums |
| 15:35:28 | elinenbe | then you hit the "right button" then you see all the songs in that album |
| 15:35:28 | Zagor | I clicked "artists" |
| 15:35:33 | elinenbe | if you click artists |
| 15:35:38 | elinenbe | youd get a list of only artists |
| 15:35:48 | elinenbe | then lets say you scroll down to U2 |
| 15:35:55 | elinenbe | then you can see all their albums |
| 15:35:59 | Zagor | see the demo, click artists and you'll see what I mean |
| 15:36:36 | elinenbe | well, sometimes there is only 1 song in that album |
| 15:36:52 | elinenbe | for instance if I browse by artist and there is a U2 song on the batman soundtrack |
| 15:37:02 | elinenbe | when I enter U2 the Batman Soundtrack will be a selection |
| 15:37:14 | elinenbe | but with JUST the U2 song in it... |
| 15:37:35 | Zagor | yes, but in the demo we never even get to see the song. it just starts playing when we go to the album |
| 15:37:38 | elinenbe | however if I browse by albums, then "Batman Soundtrack" it will have all the songs in it... |
| 15:38:08 | Zagor | anyway, the demo confirms the navigation is nothing special. just standard tree browsing, just as we planned for rockbox |
| 15:38:36 | elinenbe | Zagor: that is exactly what it is... just pretty polished... |
| 15:38:52 | elinenbe | the text slides off the screen to the left in a nice fashion. |
| 15:39:16 | kurzhaarrocker | I guess anything more sophisticated (eg with filters) would be to fiddly on a jukebox anyway. |
| 15:39:31 | Zagor | yeah, i guess many people like that sliding gimmick |
| 15:39:53 | Zagor | it's pretty, but I can't see much other purpose to it |
| 15:40:23 | Zagor | (not that there's anything wrong with being pretty) |
| 15:40:38 | Bagder | still, I want someone to write down how it works |
| 15:40:44 | Bagder | so that we can clone it |
| 15:40:45 | kurzhaarrocker | Maybe we should make the text curl up in order to get longer lines on the screen? |
| 15:40:53 | Zagor | curl up? |
| 15:41:06 | kurzhaarrocker | like a snail housing :) |
| 15:41:24 | kurzhaarrocker | forget it, I'm being stupid again. |
| 15:41:29 | Zagor | ah :) |
| 15:41:55 | elinenbe | Zagor: what is really nice... is there are smart playlists |
| 15:42:25 | elinenbe | like you can create a playlist in itunes such as "listen to my 25 favorite tracks" and this updates dynamically |
| 15:42:36 | elinenbe | or "listen to music from the 60s" |
| 15:42:58 | elinenbe | or "listen to music that has been on the ipod for less than 30 days" |
| 15:43:00 | elinenbe | etc... |
| 15:43:15 | elinenbe | or "songs with beat in the title" |
| 15:43:15 | Zagor | yeah, but you create those lists in itunes right? now on the ipod. |
| 15:43:21 | elinenbe | yes −− correct. |
| 15:43:48 | elinenbe | there is a open source winamp plugin that has source for smart playlists... |
| 15:43:50 | kurzhaarrocker | imho statistical infos and ratings are the most useful things a db can add to a jukebox. And that are things that require writing / indexing on the fly. |
| 15:44:43 | elinenbe | http://www.harrison-fisher.co.uk/mlipod/index.php?page=home |
| 15:45:10 | Zagor | statistical info is nice, but not prio #1 |
| 15:45:30 | elinenbe | http://www.apple.com/lae/itunes/smartplaylists.html |
| 15:45:37 | elinenbe | check that out for a brief summary |
| 15:46:24 | elinenbe | here is another usage of smart playlists: http://radio.weblogs.com/0100490/2002/12/09.html |
| 15:46:49 | elinenbe | in my opinion they are one of the best features of itunes/ipod |
| 15:47:20 | Zagor | it's just a database, of course you can create playlists using any combination of search terms you like |
| 15:47:50 | Zagor | however that's nothing we will bother with in rockbox, since it's 100% offline software |
| 15:48:22 | Bagder | a plugin could easily do such magic |
| 15:48:37 | Bagder | only a bit slow |
| 15:49:18 | Zagor | sure |
| 15:49:29 | Zagor | the hard part is making a gui for it :) |
| 15:49:38 | Bagder | yes |
| 15:50:05 | elinenbe | the apple one is offline −− but ratings and playcounts can be modified on the fly... so those are the only things the ipod has to deal with dynamically |
| 15:50:07 | Bagder | anyway, I think prio #1 is to offer a ipod-like ui |
| 15:50:39 | elinenbe | isn't that what arcos offers on their newer line of players? the arclib? |
| 15:50:41 | Bagder | what I call a "db browser" |
| 15:51:17 | LinusN | time to go home |
| 15:51:24 | elinenbe | http://www.archos.com/products/overview/gmini_xs200.html (second pic down on the left hand side) |
| 15:51:36 | * | LinusN has caught a terrible cold |
| 15:52:01 | * | kurzhaarrocker installs a virus protection kit |
| 15:52:42 | LinusN | we had a nice virus here at work today |
| 15:52:55 | LinusN | deleted *a lot* of .exe files on our server |
| 15:53:02 | Bagder | hehe |
| 15:53:15 | kurzhaarrocker | I didn't do it. Honestly! This time it really wasn't me! |
| 15:53:22 | LinusN | :-) |
| 15:53:54 | Zagor | elinenbe: yeah, looks like an id3 browser |
| 15:54:09 | LinusN | bye all |
| 15:54:16 | | Part LinusN |
| 15:54:17 | Zagor | that's pretty much how I planned to lay it out too |
| 15:54:47 | Bagder | Zagor: started on any code? |
| 15:54:56 | Zagor | no, just concepts in my head |
| 15:55:23 | Bagder | about fixed field sizes, I think we should set the max field size for the db in a header of the db |
| 15:55:31 | Bagder | for various fields |
| 15:56:31 | Bagder | I have my perl script working and doing tables and so, basically waiting for some early code to decide on a binary format to generate |
| 15:57:32 | Zagor | that's probably a good idea. that would make searching much faster |
| 15:57:55 | Bagder | yes, and it wouldn't limit us on a set size for the crazy users with loooong names |
| 15:58:04 | Zagor | exactly |
| 16:00 |
| 16:01:28 | * | kurzhaarrocker dimly remembers that ther were sorting algorithms that only used only excerpts from the start, middle and end of strings to save comparation time. |
| 16:01:28 | kurzhaarrocker | Could something like that be advatagous to save space / time when considering the db format? |
| 16:02:35 | Bagder | I intend to sort in my perl script on host |
| 16:02:36 | Zagor | nah, when the tables are sorted you don't compare many strings anyway |
| 16:04:13 | [IDC]Dragon | does anybody know what this mp3 player could be: |
| 16:04:19 | [IDC]Dragon | http://www.tchibo.de/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/de/-/EUR/TdTchDisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=0006450 |
| 16:04:37 | [IDC]Dragon | I doubt it's a completely new model |
| 16:04:55 | Zagor | very thin |
| 16:05:14 | Zagor | can't say i've seen it before |
| 16:05:54 | [IDC]Dragon | very few buttons |
| 16:06:08 | [IDC]Dragon | there's no at the side, but a line in jack |
| 16:07:09 | [IDC]Dragon | Tchibo is a widespead german coffe shop, they have specials every week |
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| 17:00 |
| 17:08:24 | Zagor | Bagder: i did some updates to the tagdatabase page |
| 17:08:36 | Bagder | ok, I'll check it out |
| 17:12:39 | Bagder | what about genres and years? |
| 17:12:52 | Zagor | coming :) |
| 17:12:56 | Bagder | ok |
| 17:12:59 | Bagder | neato |
| 17:14:46 | Zagor | I haven't made up my mind which approach to use for that yet |
| 17:16:32 | Zagor | i guess three tables for genre and tree for year is the rational brute-force approach |
| 17:17:00 | Zagor | year2artist, year2album, year2song, genre2artist, genre2album, genre2song |
| 17:18:48 | Bagder | as an addition to the artist2album and album@song tables then |
| 17:18:56 | Bagder | album2song |
| 17:19:30 | Zagor | yes. but that still means we need to search the year2album list when we browse 1982->abba |
| 17:19:31 | Bagder | that's 8 mapping tables |
| 17:20:04 | Bagder | why, you mentioned year2artist? |
| 17:20:23 | Zagor | yes, that list tells us which artists released something a certain year. |
| 17:20:43 | Zagor | but when we select that artist, we want to get a list of albums with songs for that year |
| 17:20:51 | Bagder | ah |
| 17:23:48 | Zagor | it becomes an obscene number of tables :) |
| 17:24:22 | Bagder | well, if we have 6 data types, I guess 30 tables is max ;-) |
| 17:24:28 | Zagor | hehe |
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| 17:25:13 | Bagder | I'm not sure it is too much, seriously |
| 17:25:54 | Zagor | no |
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| 17:26:33 | Zagor | but even 30 tables doesn't help the above 1982->abba->??? case |
| 17:26:48 | Zagor | we'd need a 1982->abba->album table :) |
| 17:26:52 | Bagder | true |
| 17:27:02 | Bagder | we need code to combine tables anyway |
| 17:27:13 | Bagder | and that takes sequentually scanning at least one table |
| 17:27:21 | Zagor | yes |
| 17:28:17 | Bagder | I think we should make a mockup db first, and write the first basic ui using that |
| 17:28:44 | Bagder | then we'll get a better understanding and thinking on how to create it the best way |
| 17:29:16 | Zagor | yes. lets start with just artist-album-song first |
| 17:29:21 | Zagor | those are easy |
| 17:29:25 | Bagder | yes |
| 17:29:48 | Zagor | i'll add a note to the wiki about the issues |
| 17:38:37 | Bagder | off to make food |
| 17:38:54 | Zagor | i'm away too. see you. |
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| 18:25:55 | Seku | Hello |
| 18:26:15 | Seku | Could someone help me??? |
| 18:26:42 | Seku | An archos jukebox 6000 problem (with linux) |
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| 23:13:14 | iRiverMan | hi |
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