00:00:17 | amiconn | Zagor: Speaking about internal & external support - this was already discussed some days ago. However, I still wonder how to do it. I agree with Linus that it has to be done in the file system layer. |
00:00:45 | amiconn | However, this requires an additional parameter to most functions in the lower layers (fat driver and ata_mmc) |
00:01:08 | amiconn | I wonder how to hide this for builds without multi-volume support... |
00:01:24 | Zagor | yes, it will be a big change |
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00:01:49 | amiconn | Zagor: #ifdef each and every function? |
00:02:06 | Zagor | doesn't sound very nice :) |
00:02:38 | Zagor | i don't know, I need to think about it some more. do you have a suggestion? |
00:02:58 | amiconn | Otherwise many functions will have a dummy parameter for single-volume builds... |
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00:03:36 | amiconn | ...I have no idea yet how to solve this. |
00:03:40 | Zagor | yes, but dual-defining entire interfaces is not very elegant either |
00:03:46 | amiconn | yup |
00:05:02 | iRiverMan | Has anyone seen the Gmini XS500? |
00:05:20 | Zagor | there's a 500 too? |
00:05:46 | iRiverMan | its just a player, not a recorder |
00:05:54 | Zagor | do you mean the xs200? |
00:06:00 | iRiverMan | sorry XS200 |
00:06:02 | iRiverMan | yea |
00:06:07 | iRiverMan | its just a player not a recorder |
00:06:17 | Zagor | yes. but very nice size. |
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00:06:50 | iRiverMan | i don't like the look of it |
00:06:53 | iRiverMan | iriver looks nicer |
00:06:58 | amiconn | Zagor: An additional function to pre-select the volume/device is not an option either, because this would make accesses non-atomic |
00:06:59 | iRiverMan | and that green backlight looks horrid |
00:08:12 | Zagor | yeah, it may be ugly but it's hard to argue about the size. 120g! that's almost as light as my mobile phone. |
00:08:19 | Zagor | amiconn: yes |
00:09:29 | amiconn | The Ondio is about the weight of my mobile phone (60 g). That Gmini is still twice the weight... |
00:10:11 | Zagor | of course, but it's got 20x the capacity |
00:11:48 | amiconn | Agreed. |
00:12:47 | iRiverMan | the iriver is light |
00:16:05 | amiconn | Bagder: r u there? |
00:17:19 | iRiverMan | hey |
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00:28:07 | webguest94 | hi all |
00:28:27 | webguest94 | is triggered recording "almost ready" yet? |
00:29:50 | Zagor | isn't it always? ;) |
00:31:11 | webguest94 | :) |
00:31:36 | webguest94 | It seems very useful, and I'm wondering what it lacks to be included. |
00:31:54 | Zagor | i'm not sure, i haven't looked at it lately |
00:33:42 | webguest94 | I have another question: when recording at low qual and bitrates, is it doable to have the audio I hear be actual recorded quality? |
00:34:12 | webguest94 | Or is that impossible? |
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00:34:59 | Zagor | it's not possible on the archos, i'm afraid |
00:35:12 | webguest94 | I've been recording NPR news radio shows in mono 16khz. |
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00:37:51 | webguest94 | I guess the hardware can't encode one chan and decode the other, or interleave? |
00:38:02 | Zagor | no, only one thing at a time |
00:38:31 | webguest94 | Oh well, I guess hardly anyone would do that (except me) anyway :) |
00:39:38 | webguest94 | How about doinq tone control type stuff on encode? (speech uses mostly mid freqs) |
00:40:48 | miner49er | that gray_drawGrayMap function is brilliant! Just what I was looking for. thanks again! |
00:40:57 | Zagor | sorry, no. there are very few paramters to adjust for recording |
00:41:11 | Zagor | miner49er: can I ask what you're working on? |
00:41:53 | miner49er | well, i'm sure you guys wiould be able to knock up a pure assembly version very quickly but I'm trying to do a simple plasma effect. |
00:42:08 | miner49er | ...and it's taking ages! lol :-) |
00:42:34 | Zagor | :) |
00:43:18 | miner49er | really annoying my girlfriend too! |
00:45:18 | iRiverMan | pleased i found my Y-cable |
00:45:41 | amiconn | Bah, the last plugins in the list are the hardest! |
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00:49:35 | AC | helo |
00:49:48 | iRiverMan | hi AC |
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00:51:40 | Zagor | i'm off to bed. see you later. |
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09:19:56 | kurzhaarrocker | <webguest94> is triggered recording "almost ready" yet? |
09:19:57 | kurzhaarrocker | <Zagor> isn't it always? ;) |
09:19:57 | kurzhaarrocker | grrrr |
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09:21:17 | Zagor | seriously, what is the status of that? I don't know. |
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09:21:42 | Zagor | are you just waiting for someone to commit it? |
09:22:18 | kurzhaarrocker | I'd like to have it code polieced first. But I consider it as commitalbe. |
09:22:33 | Zagor | ok |
09:23:24 | kurzhaarrocker | I used the triggered recording since january - but of course since the last update of the patch I haven't done much excessive testing yet. |
09:25:14 | Bagder_ | "Media Transfer Protocol" oh gee |
09:26:08 | Zagor | haha |
09:26:10 | kurzhaarrocker | Is that the name for transactions with your id3-db? |
09:26:32 | Bagder_ | "Microsoft has developed the Media Transfer Protocol (MTP) to manage content on any portable device with storage. It is based upon an existing protocol, Picture Transfer Protocol (PTP), and can be implemented to be fully compatible with that protocol." |
09:27:06 | kurzhaarrocker | Probably full or drms. |
09:27:18 | Bagder_ | yes, and made for non usb-storage usb |
09:27:30 | Bagder_ | the spec is available as... a windows exe |
09:27:37 | kurzhaarrocker | lol |
09:27:39 | Zagor | i'll reject it |
09:27:45 | Bagder_ | yes |
09:28:02 | kurzhaarrocker | Do you want me to formulate a feature request so that you can reject it officially? |
09:28:10 | Bagder_ | "The primary purpose of MTP is to facilitate communication between devices that connect to a computer or other host, exchange data, and then disconnect for standalone use." |
09:28:19 | Bagder_ | kurzhaarrocker: there is one already |
09:28:25 | Bagder_ | that's how I noticed |
09:28:28 | kurzhaarrocker | ok :) |
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09:32:05 | [IDC]Dragon | 'morning folks! |
09:32:32 | Ctcp | Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
09:32:32 | * | kurzhaarrocker waves |
09:33:01 | * | [IDC]Dragon gives a high five |
09:34:04 | [IDC]Dragon | where is dear LinusN these days? |
09:34:16 | kurzhaarrocker | Btw: is there alreay code to find frame boundaries in bitswapped mp3 data? |
09:34:43 | Zagor | [IDC]Dragon: at home taking care of one of his kids who is sick |
09:34:47 | [IDC]Dragon | kurzhaarrocker: yes, in the talk code |
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09:34:57 | [IDC]Dragon | Zagor: oh |
09:35:06 | kurzhaarrocker | Oh, Linus passed on his sickness. to bad. |
09:35:42 | [IDC]Dragon | now his kids dismantle mp3 players, too? ;-) |
09:35:47 | * | [IDC]Dragon ducks |
09:35:55 | Bagder | hehe |
09:35:59 | Zagor | given heavy enough tools, I expect they will :) |
09:36:06 | Bagder | that's a bad illness |
10:00 |
10:02:40 | [IDC]Dragon | speaking of absent people, is Christie still around? |
10:02:57 | * | [IDC]Dragon was thinking about a 2.3 manual |
10:03:10 | Zagor | she hasn't responded my the freeze mail, where I asked if she wanted to update the manual |
10:03:40 | [IDC]Dragon | "freeze mail"? |
10:04:42 | Zagor | 2.3 feature freeze |
10:06:16 | [IDC]Dragon | ah |
10:09:40 | [IDC]Dragon | I hope she is well |
10:09:52 | kurzhaarrocker | btw: I recently had an "interesting" battery experience |
10:10:29 | kurzhaarrocker | First the jukebox stopped playback. Whe I took it out of the pocket I noticed it was hot at one edge. |
10:10:46 | kurzhaarrocker | I immediately removed the batteries. One of which was hot. |
10:11:29 | kurzhaarrocker | It became even hotter for the next 20 minutes and the green plastic coating tore due to the heat. |
10:11:47 | kurzhaarrocker | Fortunately the recorder wasn't damaged. |
10:12:06 | Zagor | yikes. spontaneous battery meltdown. |
10:12:07 | kurzhaarrocker | I assume that some strange short circuit occurred _inside_ the battery |
10:12:52 | [IDC]Dragon | like the LiIons in Apples' early Powerbooks |
10:13:05 | [IDC]Dragon | bursting in flames |
10:13:46 | kurzhaarrocker | This was one of the original green NiMh cells that came with the recorder, no LiIon. |
10:14:01 | kurzhaarrocker | (Maybe that prevented flames) :) |
10:16:10 | [IDC]Dragon | is the cell dead now? |
10:16:36 | kurzhaarrocker | I measured 0.0 Volts and didn't bother to try to recharge it. |
10:18:54 | [IDC]Dragon | yes, I woudn't neither |
10:19:15 | [IDC]Dragon | best excuse to get a set of 2300 mAh cells |
10:19:59 | kurzhaarrocker | :) Best bang/buck momentarily seem to be the 1800 mAh cells. 4pcs for 8 EUR. |
10:20:25 | Zagor | is it bad when a court judge describes you like this: "In fact, however, Merkey is not just prone to exaggeration, he also is and can be deceptive, not only to his adversaries, but also to his own partners, his business associates and to the court. He deliberately describes his own, separate reality."? :-) |
10:21:27 | kurzhaarrocker | Are you winning a trial? :) |
10:22:09 | Zagor | no, just reading groklaw |
10:24:53 | [IDC]Dragon | kurzhaarrocker: at Reichelt, 4*2500 are 10.45, 4*2400 are 9.95 |
10:25:31 | [IDC]Dragon | 1800 are hard to get |
10:25:43 | kurzhaarrocker | Thanx. Good hint. I might like to order something at Reichelt anyway. |
10:26:17 | kurzhaarrocker | Saturn has loads of 1800 mAh |
10:35:52 | | Join amiconn [0] (~jens@pD9E7DDD7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
10:36:16 | kurzhaarrocker | Hi amiconn. Seems I gave you a hard time with the split editor? :) |
10:36:28 | amiconn | hi |
10:36:48 | amiconn | Yes, although "star" was even harder... |
10:39:06 | kurzhaarrocker | Do you experience an audiable gap when looping with the split editor? |
10:39:42 | amiconn | The button were no big problem (leaving out the speed variation). |
10:39:59 | kurzhaarrocker | yes, that's what I'd have left out too. |
10:42:08 | kurzhaarrocker | I just wondered because of those timing thingies you added |
10:45:02 | amiconn | The timing problem: MMC is slow, and takes several seconds to reload a track. mpeg_ff_rewind() reloads if either the requested range is outside the loaded area (sic) or if it is still busy reloading if a new ff_rewind request is issued. |
10:46:02 | kurzhaarrocker | ok, thx |
10:46:14 | amiconn | The latter situation arises if you start the split editor shortly after starting the track. Without the added wait, it would reload every time the spliteditor skips back, because reloading takes longer than the loop time. |
10:47:00 | amiconn | So I added the wait check. It will wait 10 seconds at the first loop if a reload is required, to allow the reload to complete |
10:47:15 | amiconn | There are no additional waits for subsequent loops |
10:48:21 | kurzhaarrocker | I think the same problem occurres within the "normal" recorder, too. |
10:50:32 | amiconn | There is another problem related to this reload on Ondio. Since the spliteditor does not yield very often, the reload-and-swap is slower than the playback, causing the playback to go silent after ~1 sec without the reload wait |
10:51:30 | kurzhaarrocker | hrgh |
10:51:53 | kurzhaarrocker | Well the entire plugin needs a rewrite so that it utilizes the mp3 api. |
10:52:36 | amiconn | I tried with button_get_w_tmo(HZ/20) instead of button_get(false) / yield(). While this also fixed the swap starving, the osci display became rather imprecise when I did that. |
10:55:46 | kurzhaarrocker | Lots of gaps I assume? |
10:55:54 | amiconn | yup |
10:56:26 | amiconn | The reload check is rather crude: if after 1/20 sec the pointer is still out of range, the code assumes that a reload is in progress. mpeg_status() doesn't tell you... |
10:59:28 | * | kurzhaarrocker closes his eyes, puts his fingers into his ears and sings "lalala" loudly so that he needn't hear all the problems he knows to be buried in that lousy looping code. |
11:00 |
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11:09:55 | [IDC]Dragon | Hi Jens! |
11:10:13 | [IDC]Dragon | (just turned my eyes back to this window) |
11:19:55 | amiconn | hi |
11:20:44 | amiconn | I saw that you implemeted the "voice clip present" caching |
11:21:27 | [IDC]Dragon | yes, I found the feature crappy otherwise |
11:23:00 | amiconn | There are only 2 plugins left... but one of them is a very hard one - wormlet |
11:23:40 | kurzhaarrocker | lol |
11:23:49 | [IDC]Dragon | nobody would mind if we don't have all in the first shot |
11:24:48 | [IDC]Dragon | I'm not mentioning core features like the keyboard, dumdidum |
11:25:18 | [IDC]Dragon | I'm an unreliable resource, but can try my best to help |
11:25:59 | kurzhaarrocker | amiconn: why not disable all the multi-player crap. Then the reduced amount of buttons shouldn't be problematic. |
11:26:18 | * | kurzhaarrocker doubts that anybody anywhen actually tried to play wormlet using a remote |
11:26:37 | * | [IDC]Dragon feels guilty because of not being able to work so hard on Odio as amiconn |
11:27:11 | amiconn | Wormlet needs at least the default event handler stuff. The problem is not the amount of buttons (multiplayer doesn't make sense on Ondio), but that the button handling is scattered all over the code |
11:27:12 | * | kurzhaarrocker feels guilty because he still hasn't implemented user assignable key schemes :) |
11:31:06 | [IDC]Dragon | amiconn: should I try to start with the keyboard? (probably no real work before sunday) |
11:31:41 | [IDC]Dragon | any other Ondio issues left? |
11:33:08 | amiconn | The debug info ("View HW info" and "view IO ports") needs a bit of polishing - taking out the ata stuff |
11:33:30 | [IDC]Dragon | nah, peanuts |
11:34:40 | * | [IDC]Dragon looks for amiconn's "keyboard specification" |
11:35:41 | amiconn | I got another report from an Ondio user (via private eMail). He has original Ondio 128, which is indeed identical to the FMR. Mask 0x0708, i.e. Samsung tuner. |
11:36:27 | [IDC]Dragon | working? |
11:37:54 | [IDC]Dragon | so plain "Ondio 128" without SP/FM suffix is like what we call FM, we should clarify that on the build page |
11:38:46 | [IDC]Dragon | the Philips tuner is a lot better in terms of reception |
11:39:02 | amiconn | Yes it is, and it is working, although he couldn't figure out how to pause/stop. Having that on "Off" *is* a bit unintuitive... |
11:39:39 | amiconn | He already knew rockbox, because he has a V2 as well |
11:39:47 | [IDC]Dragon | tell me a free button... |
11:40:00 | kurzhaarrocker | belly button |
11:40:19 | [IDC]Dragon | :) that's for girls only |
11:40:29 | kurzhaarrocker | :) |
11:42:47 | amiconn | I wonder if it would be better to put the wps<->browser toggle on "off" and do pause/stop the same way as the archos fw (first press pauses, second stops) |
11:45:01 | [IDC]Dragon | for now, I tried to get away by just reassigning buttons, not changing the states machines (or whatever) of the code |
11:45:53 | [IDC]Dragon | the resulting UI is not good for the Ondio, no doubt about that |
11:46:17 | [IDC]Dragon | as it is, the Archos software is more useable |
11:47:45 | amiconn | I did not say we have to do this for the upcoming release... |
11:49:35 | [IDC]Dragon | phew, OK. ;-) |
11:53:15 | amiconn | Just found another report of a "plain" Ondio 128 in the forum... |
12:00 |
12:01:40 | [IDC]Dragon | note to self: update the flash plugin to accept 1.04 ondios |
12:02:07 | [IDC]Dragon | lunch time! |
12:30:23 | Zagor | why are you so focused on stopping? |
12:31:01 | Zagor | adding a state machine makes that part of the ui ondio-specific |
12:45:00 | Zagor | otoh I can understand swapping the pause and toggle buttons, since at least I use pause much more than toggle |
12:51:39 | Zagor | if would also end up quite well having toggle on off and stop on off+repeat. |
12:59:16 | [IDC]Dragon | back again |
13:00 |
13:00:35 | [IDC]Dragon | Zagor: perhaps |
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13:00:58 | [IDC]Dragon | (you're a bit hard to read today, or is it just me?) |
13:01:24 | Zagor | maybe i've had too little coffee? |
13:01:46 | [IDC]Dragon | go for it, then! |
13:01:52 | Zagor | :) |
13:05:47 | Zagor | or was it "otoh" (on the other hand) that was confusing? |
13:06:12 | [IDC]Dragon | ah, that's what it means |
13:06:42 | [IDC]Dragon | I thought it's perhaps a crippled "although" |
13:07:29 | Zagor | I should stop using unnecessary acronyms |
13:07:53 | [IDC]Dragon | no, I just have to learn |
13:08:12 | [IDC]Dragon | what does "sic" mean? |
13:10:25 | Zagor | it's latin and means roughly "so it says". you use it to point out that what you wrote was not a mistake, but what you actually meant. often used for example after misspellings in quotes |
13:12:06 | Zagor | (it's not an acronym) |
13:12:45 | [IDC]Dragon | yea, with your pointers I found it. I had too many years of latin at school to remember... |
13:13:05 | Zagor | :) |
13:33:48 | amiconn | Zagor: Having pause and stop on different buttons would imho be even more confusing than it is now. Also, stop on Off+Repeat is a bit uncomfortable, since holding it too long switches the unit off. |
13:37:11 | Zagor | pause and stop is always on different buttons |
13:38:38 | amiconn | It isn't on the Ondio... |
13:39:03 | Zagor | it isn't on the archos ondio firmware. but that's not really relevant, is it? we are not making a better archos firmware. |
13:40:36 | amiconn | It isn't in rockbox either. Currently, pause is Off, stop is Off+repeat |
13:42:18 | Zagor | true. but I just said I agree with you that it's a good idea to put pause on the closer MENU button instead, because it's more frequently used |
13:43:16 | Zagor | there is no inherent advantage in grouping separate functions to a single button. it should be decided on the basis of ergonomics and comfort |
13:43:17 | amiconn | You mean, because you use pause more frequently. I almost never use pause... |
13:43:37 | Zagor | ok. do you browse more than pause? |
13:44:12 | Zagor | i'm fine with keeping it as is. i'm just not fine with adding ondio-specific state code just to emulate the archos firmware. |
13:48:10 | amiconn | The biggest problem is that there are too few buttons. In the wps, there are 12 functions, but only 6 buttons. |
13:48:44 | amiconn | We have 3 options: (1) Distinguish short/ long press, including Off button |
13:48:45 | Zagor | which functions are we lacking in the wps currently? |
13:48:59 | amiconn | This is what we do now |
13:49:09 | amiconn | (2) Use button combos |
13:49:22 | amiconn | (3) Add state code |
13:49:37 | Zagor | we do 1) and 2) today already. i don't like adding a third model. |
13:49:52 | amiconn | We have all functions available in wps, with model (1) |
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14:10:40 | amiconn | (model 1) However, this requires the long "Off" press. Using combos would be even more unintuitive imho. Adding state code would solve that problem... |
14:10:50 | | Join Lynx_ [0] (lynx@134.95.189.59) |
14:11:14 | Zagor | I don't see the problem with the long off press |
14:11:29 | Zagor | you said there are several seconds until it shuts down |
14:11:34 | | Join elinenbe [0] (~elinenbe_@65.115.46.225) |
14:13:11 | [IDC]Dragon | Zagor: in general, we should be able to adjust the UI better to the target. A plain 1:1 mapping gives us something working atm, but no snug fit to whichever model |
14:13:48 | amiconn | Zagor: Yes there are. It still feels uncomfortable... |
14:13:51 | Zagor | I disagree that adding a whole new UI concept is "a snug fit" |
14:14:14 | [IDC]Dragon | with the Iriver, Rockbox as is would be "boring", on such a big screen, or whatever different capabilities |
14:14:27 | Zagor | [IDC]Dragon: absolutely |
14:14:57 | Zagor | but we are not targeting the winamp skinning crowd anyway |
14:15:04 | [IDC]Dragon | so there is a future challenge to decouple features and UI |
14:15:33 | Zagor | the solution isn't to write all new code for each target |
14:15:42 | amiconn | State code is not an all-new concept, even for rockbox. |
14:15:53 | [IDC]Dragon | no, and that's not what I meant |
14:17:42 | [IDC]Dragon | we're in danger to go to #ifdef hell, if we fail to seperate the UI |
14:17:47 | Zagor | amiconn: should we move stop away from the off button on regular recorders too? the margin is much more narrow there. |
14:18:03 | kurzhaarrocker | Why is "statemachine" such a bad word? What's the problem with state machines? |
14:18:33 | Zagor | kurzhaarrocker: nothing, but the rockbox UI does not use that concept. I see no reason to depart from the rockbox ui design concept. |
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14:19:51 | Zagor | [IDC]Dragon: "separating the ui" in practice means forking the code for each platform, or making the code huge, abstract and very complex. |
14:20:21 | amiconn | Zagor: It is not a problem on the recorder, since it is a short press only |
14:20:24 | Zagor | the only thing the iriver has is another screen. it does not require a whole different UI |
14:21:11 | [IDC]Dragon | I'll remind you when the crowd asks for icons, etc. |
14:21:27 | Zagor | when did I listen to "the crowd"? |
14:21:34 | [IDC]Dragon | ;-) |
14:21:43 | Bagder | and why would icons separate the UI? |
14:21:52 | Bagder | we can have icons on archos too |
14:22:11 | Zagor | I can see the use for larger icons than we have today, and colour. but that's pretty much it. |
14:22:15 | kurzhaarrocker | There already was an impressive proof of concept implementation by someone. |
14:22:30 | * | Bagder recalls some nice screenshots |
14:22:35 | [IDC]Dragon | unfortunately I've never seen that |
14:22:40 | logan02 | does anyone here know someone named "yeft" |
14:22:48 | [IDC]Dragon | URL ? |
14:23:01 | #>> | "seen" used by Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) [snoop prevented] |
14:23:12 | Zagor | logan02: nope |
14:25:05 | * | kurzhaarrocker stratches his head |
14:25:05 | kurzhaarrocker | Was it dwihno who did that icon gui demo? |
14:28:17 | [IDC]Dragon | Google thinks so, yes |
14:28:56 | | Quit logan02 ("CGI:IRC") |
14:29:09 | * | [IDC]Dragon invokes dwhino |
14:31:42 | amiconn | Zagor: The rockbox ui already uses a bit of state code do distinguish short and long presses - the xxx_PRE stuff |
14:32:49 | amiconn | s/do/to/ |
14:32:55 | Zagor | of course, we have lots of state *code*. but we don't have user interface states of the type you propose. |
14:33:20 | Zagor | every switch() is a state machine |
14:34:46 | amiconn | The double-Off powerdown on recorders is an example for ui states, as is the handling of the On button (classic jukeboxes) in the browser. It's function depends on whether music is playing or not. |
14:36:11 | Zagor | i agree about the poweroff function, but not the on button. all buttons depend on state, always. browser, wps, menu etc. |
14:37:01 | kurzhaarrocker | (otherwise even combos had to be considered as states, and let's not talk about the quick screens) |
14:40:02 | Zagor | amiconn: how exactly is your proposal? how do I resume again once I pause? is it sort of like a quick-screen with only stop and pause/resume as options? |
14:41:21 | amiconn | If we leave the assignment as-is, the first hit of "Off" could pause, the second could stop. Resume would then have to be done the same way as play from the browser, with Right. |
14:41:42 | amiconn | Of course this disallows skip-forward while in pause mode |
14:43:13 | Zagor | and the motive is that using off+repeat for stop is uncomfortable? |
14:44:52 | amiconn | Yes, but that is only one reason. As it is now, you resume with "Off" after pause - highly illogical. |
14:45:51 | Zagor | so we trade vol+, vol-, ffwd and rew during pause for a friendlier resume |
14:45:52 | amiconn | It also often happens for me that I only pause when I meant to stop. Then pressing "Off" a little longer first resumes for a fraction of a second, then stops for real |
14:46:17 | amiconn | Nope, only forward skip would be traded |
14:46:23 | Zagor | in that case it's a bug. it should only resume on off+release |
14:46:56 | | Part kurzhaarrocker |
14:46:56 | Zagor | only ffwd? how logical is that? |
14:48:04 | Zagor | i think the changes are rather extensive just to move stop to another button |
14:48:56 | amiconn | Erm, because Right == Play on Ondio. I agree that it isn't full logical. |
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14:51:59 | Zagor | actually it's not play, that's just how the archos firmware maps it. the button is marked >> |
14:53:02 | amiconn | Agreed. So there is no real play button on that mp3 player - strange design eh? ;) |
14:53:09 | Zagor | :-) |
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14:57:24 | Bagder | my keyboard's left control-key just broke |
14:57:32 | Bagder | terribly annoying |
14:58:21 | Zagor | i hardly ever use it, i have caps-lock mapped to ctrl instead. very pinky-friendly :) |
14:58:54 | Bagder | I do control-x s using that in my sleep ;-) |
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15:02:10 | | Part Zagor |
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15:08:07 | Bagder | I've noticed that the good open neo guys remove more and more copyright texts |
15:10:29 | Zagor | maybe it's time to quote the law to them again |
15:11:28 | Bagder | yes, I'll write a mail the next one they take away |
15:19:31 | Bagder | Zagor: time to add ondio to the models on the front web page |
15:20:12 | Zagor | i planned to do that when we release 2.3 |
15:20:20 | Bagder | ok |
15:21:24 | amiconn | Bagder: You wrote pong, correct? |
15:21:31 | Bagder | correct |
15:21:45 | Bagder | not the best piece I ever wrote, but... |
15:24:04 | amiconn | You choice for "down" for one of the players should be changed on the recorders. Right and Left are mechanically mutually-exclusive. While you can force the buttons to make contact at the same time, this is certainly not good for the button lifetime... |
15:24:47 | Bagder | I know |
15:24:59 | Bagder | I think it proves no one every played it for real ;-) |
15:25:15 | Bagder | s/every/ever |
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15:51:34 | amiconn | Found that while testing if my Ondio adaptions broke something on the recorder. I also found that pong isn't very playable - the paddles still move too slow, even with the new button driver |
15:53:02 | Zagor | even more proof nobody ever played it :) |
15:56:53 | amiconn | yup. I had the same problems with the chip8 emulator - many games either run too fast, or some graphics are missing. |
16:00 |
16:08:28 | [IDC]Dragon | chip8 has a serious button shortage, even on the recorder |
16:12:34 | amiconn | Yes, that's another problem. Iirc chip8 specifies 16 buttons. Recorder offers 9 of them, Ondio only 5... |
16:12:55 | [IDC]Dragon | many games are not playable because of this |
16:13:23 | Zagor | 16 buttons! that's a lot. |
16:13:44 | [IDC]Dragon | somebody suggested to have an (optional) map file per game. If the emulator finds such, it uses the mapping within, instead of the default. |
16:15:10 | [IDC]Dragon | 16 buttons is from the golden age when buttons were a lot cheaper than a CPU. Now it seems to be opposite. |
16:16:04 | amiconn | Yes, that's surely an option. However, I wonder why some graphics are not displayed... |
16:20:07 | [IDC]Dragon | amiconn: I'm testing a crude keyboard adaption (just remapping) |
16:20:51 | [IDC]Dragon | it seems impossible to have Menu as a long press (for apply), as well as for a combo press |
16:21:15 | [IDC]Dragon | make the combo inoperable |
16:22:48 | amiconn | Of course. My proposal was a little different... |
16:30:20 | [IDC]Dragon | yes, distinguishing between "pickboard mode" and "line edit mode". |
16:33:48 | amiconn | As I now thought it over a bit - it shouldn't be hard to implement. |
16:34:58 | amiconn | Some of the shortcuts may also be handy for the recorder, e.g. long press of Play to accept (as an alternative, like On+Play<->Play+repeat in the browser) |
16:37:41 | [IDC]Dragon | the cose looks pretty clear, yes (made by Zagor ) |
16:37:50 | [IDC]Dragon | s/cose/code |
16:38:26 | [IDC]Dragon | before giving it 2 modes, I'm experimenting with just assignments |
16:39:01 | [IDC]Dragon | short press an combo for Menu is also tricky. |
16:40:17 | [IDC]Dragon | How did you do such? Did you write extra code to eat the release? Releasing the combo issues another relese. |
16:41:42 | amiconn | Short press and combo with menu as shift is easy. There are many examples for this meanwhile, both in the core and plugins. |
16:42:00 | Zagor | [IDC]Dragon: I use a _PRE constant. see TREE_WPS in tree.c for an example. |
16:42:22 | amiconn | You have to react on menu+release, but only if you got plain menu directly before (without repeat etc.) |
16:42:53 | [IDC]Dragon | so adding a little state machine? |
16:43:42 | Zagor | sort of, yes. it's a condition, rather. |
16:44:28 | [IDC]Dragon | Zagor: I see, you used a variable with the last button |
16:44:38 | amiconn | That's what all those 'lastbutton' variables are for. I did that for jpeg viewer, video.... |
16:45:30 | [IDC]Dragon | I'm a button designer newbie (sorry for not checking the commits carefully) |
16:47:58 | amiconn | You can check e.g. jpeg viewer (short menu is zoom in, long menu is zoom out) or video (menu alone is stop seek, menu+up/down is contrast) |
16:48:13 | [IDC]Dragon | yep, got it |
17:00 |
17:00:03 | [IDC]Dragon | OK, I have an assignment working now, by just remapping |
17:00:20 | [IDC]Dragon | nice to have the keyboard back, btw |
17:00:54 | amiconn | What did you do? So cryptic key combos? |
17:01:01 | amiconn | s/So/Some/ |
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17:01:47 | [IDC]Dragon | ;-) |
17:02:09 | [IDC]Dragon | move is the arrows |
17:02:24 | [IDC]Dragon | menu Right/Left is cursor |
17:02:38 | [IDC]Dragon | Menu is char select |
17:02:54 | [IDC]Dragon | long Off is cancel |
17:03:04 | [IDC]Dragon | short Off is accept |
17:03:17 | [IDC]Dragon | Menu Up in page flip |
17:03:26 | [IDC]Dragon | Menu Down is backspace |
17:03:41 | [IDC]Dragon | (end of flood) |
17:03:44 | amiconn | Urgs (especially the Off combos) |
17:03:56 | Zagor | gotta go. see you guys. |
17:03:57 | | Part Zagor |
17:04:02 | [IDC]Dragon | it's not an Off combo |
17:04:40 | [IDC]Dragon | it's accept (short) or cancel (long) |
17:04:47 | amiconn | Okay, imprecise speech. But Off==accept is highly illogical. And another long Off function... |
17:04:49 | | Quit _Lucretia_ (Read error: 238 (Connection timed out)) |
17:05:18 | [IDC]Dragon | I know, I just tried to make a remap |
17:06:17 | amiconn | I think I'll go for the dual mode keyboard. Maybe I can reuse parts of that for a new player keyboard. The current one is rather cryptic... |
17:06:39 | [IDC]Dragon | unless you can think of a better map, I'll commit this as a starter |
17:08:14 | amiconn | I think you can't do any better with just remapping |
17:09:39 | [IDC]Dragon | following the Zagor design principle "don't change the code" |
17:09:52 | amiconn | ;) |
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17:10:23 | [IDC]Dragon | seriously, I'd just like to get rid of the no keyboard splash asap |
17:10:56 | amiconn | Zagor Design ®™ |
17:12:12 | [IDC]Dragon | and celebrate full Rockbox functionality on the Ondio :-) |
17:24:06 | * | [IDC]Dragon leaves to celebrate |
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17:54:58 | ScrpWork | ? |
17:55:02 | ScrpWork | I wonder if I'm alive here |
17:56:09 | einhirn | Hello ScrpWork... |
17:57:48 | ScrpWork | hi there |
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18:01:20 | oxygen77 | hello |
18:01:40 | oxygen77 | anybody here with some knowledge on the rtc chip of the recorder? |
18:09:19 | ScrpWork | ok I don't even know what you're talking about |
18:09:22 | ScrpWork | so, not me :) |
18:09:26 | oxygen77 | lol |
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19:09:27 | _aLF | hi |
19:14:54 | ScrpWork | yo |
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23:20:32 | [IDC]Dragon | 'night! |
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23:28:17 | | Join Zagor [0] (foobar@h254n2fls31o265.telia.com) |
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23:29:48 | | Join kkkk [0] (kkkk@user-2393.lns5-c7.dsl.pol.co.uk) |
23:30:01 | kkkk | hey |
23:30:10 | | Join Newone^ [0] (~3fe3aa54@labb.contactor.se) |
23:30:21 | kkkk | anybody home? |
23:30:28 | Zagor | yes |
23:30:34 | kkkk | how are you doing :) |
23:30:39 | Zagor | fine thanks |
23:30:52 | kkkk | are you one of the rockbox team? |
23:31:06 | Zagor | yes |
23:31:17 | kkkk | how are the projects going guys |
23:31:28 | Zagor | fine thanks :) |
23:31:37 | kkkk | any major problems? |
23:31:47 | Bagder | lack of time! |
23:32:05 | kkkk | lol..do you work on your projects in your free time yes? |
23:32:05 | Zagor | yeah. i need a daytime expansion kid. |
23:32:10 | Zagor | yes |
23:32:15 | Zagor | kit even |
23:32:19 | Newone^ | Hello.. Anyone know how to get jukebox studio 10 or its like.. To be seen / used in winxp? archos web site says winxp will auto see it as a usb mass storage device.. BUt it never can find drivers.. < have to of thes.. and tried it on 3 computers with winxp.. any help or links to help would be nice ;) |
23:32:43 | Zagor | Newone^: you need a special driver. studio 10 is not usb-storage compliant. |
23:32:43 | Bagder | you need to install drivers |
23:32:46 | Newone^ | two of these* |
23:32:51 | * | kkkk *sends leaked version of Ms ExtraTime to Zagor+Badger |
23:33:38 | Newone^ | I tried the win9x drivers at archos.. but they see it once.. then seems to mess up and crashes windows xp |
23:33:49 | Newone^ | any idea where to get the drivers for winxp? |
23:33:50 | * | amiconn notices an active Bagder |
23:34:07 | Bagder | only half active |
23:34:11 | Bagder | couldn't sleep |
23:34:12 | amiconn | Bagder: With the new build system, there is a slight quirk. |
23:34:21 | Bagder | with what? |
23:34:34 | * | kkkk quirk..!! tut.. |
23:35:10 | kkkk | do you all work on iriver and the archos one or do u have two teams, etc? |
23:35:15 | Zagor | Newone^: http://www.archos.com/download/drivers/TPPINST_5_04.EXE |
23:35:15 | amiconn | As soon as one single plugin needs to be rebuilt, *all* plugins are linked + objcopied again (probably because the intermediate .elf files are deleted after the build) |
23:35:38 | Bagder | well, I don't know why the elf file is deleted |
23:35:47 | Bagder | it did that before as well actually |
23:36:09 | Bagder | but I'll see what I can do |
23:36:18 | Newone^ | Zagor .. thank you very much.. will try them now :) |
23:36:57 | kkkk | O.o.. one more happy customer! |
23:37:54 | kkkk | u guys need a hand? |
23:38:04 | Zagor | kkkk: we're not that organised. everyone does whatever they enjoy doing. |
23:38:22 | Zagor | we can always use help |
23:38:41 | kkkk | ah..well i really appriciate your efforts..I recently purchased iRiver one and found out about your group |
23:39:32 | kkkk | but vb is as far my programming skills go so.. lol ill stick with wasting your time on irc.. |
23:39:38 | Zagor | :) |
23:42:24 | kkkk | hmmm so how far are you with the project? still trying to understand the firmware? |
23:42:44 | Zagor | no. we are not looking at the iriver firmware, we are porting our own. |
23:43:08 | Zagor | we have the scheduler running and a simple backlight blink demo |
23:43:22 | kkkk | nice |
23:44:06 | kkkk | programming firmware sounds alot of fun!!..no use of win32 api im guessing!! |
23:44:18 | Newone^ | Installed that driver on a clean system.. Now its doing same thing as the others did with the archos win9x drivers.. restarting they computer < crash.. when hook up the jukebox ;( |
23:44:30 | Zagor | hehe, no. all code is ours. |
23:44:57 | Zagor | Newone^: do you hook up the jukebox when it's on or off? |
23:45:13 | Newone^ | on.. |
23:45:20 | Newone^ | that a no no ;) |
23:45:35 | Newone^ | > |
23:45:54 | Zagor | no that's fine. sounds like bad drivers then, but those are all I could find on archos.com |
23:46:20 | Newone^ | Then there the same ones I used.. |
23:46:37 | Newone^ | it sees it after.. and seems ok.. but drive does not show up in My computer |
23:47:31 | Bagder | Newone^: consider posting a q to the mailing list |
23:47:50 | Newone^ | ok.. thanks |
23:48:13 | kkkk | hey can i ask you guys a random hardware question? |
23:48:25 | Zagor | sure |
23:48:26 | Bagder | try us! |
23:49:08 | | Join amiconn_ [0] (~jens@pD9E7F90E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
23:49:36 | kkkk | lol..well..i recently built a new system, with a 200gb western digital hdd (bad choice!), and the hdd has failed..ive lost 80gb files..i cant connect it up so i cant format the hdd or anything..do u think a magnet could destroy the data? (or shall i trust WD with not reporting me to police lol) |
23:50:26 | | Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.) |
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23:50:38 | Zagor | no idea |
23:50:53 | kkkk | ah hmm |
23:51:25 | Bagder | if you're scared they might find the contents, then no, a magnet won't be enough |
23:51:39 | kkkk | lol :\ |
23:53:39 | kkkk | which mp3 player do u guys personally use anyway? archos? |
23:53:47 | Zagor | yes |
23:54:15 | kkkk | hehe..i was gonna get it but its abit too much for a student :\ |
23:55:14 | Zagor | you are probably thinking of the newer archos models. we use the older "jukebox" types. |
23:55:39 | | Join paradox [0] (~45f31293@labb.contactor.se) |
23:55:39 | kkkk | oh right..do you guys work in an office or something? |
23:55:58 | Bagder | we are all over the world |
23:56:09 | Bagder | I guess a bunch work in offices |
23:56:10 | Zagor | big office :) |
23:56:28 | kkkk | hehe nice =)..any persians? lol.. |
23:56:54 | Zagor | possibly. we don't keep track of everyone's nationality |
23:57:14 | kkkk | ooh..how many members are we talking? |
23:57:32 | Zagor | well the mailing list has 600 subscribers |
23:57:47 | kkkk | hehe how many contribute directly to the project? most? |
23:58:09 | Zagor | no, maybe 50-60 |
23:58:21 | kkkk | ah not too bad |
23:58:29 | Bagder | 86 named in CREDITS |
23:58:30 | Zagor | not counting bug reports and such feedback |
23:58:33 | Newone^ | I have jokebox 20 that seems fine.. but the kids studio 10 and juckbox 5000 are useless now.. < not going back to win9x just to have drivers that work :D |
23:58:45 | kkkk | lol :\ |
23:58:47 | Zagor | Bagder: I stand corrected :) |
23:58:52 | Bagder | :-) |