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#rockbox log for 2004-10-27

00:00:08[IDC]Dragonwhat time resolution is that?
00:00:35amiconnThe triangles start at every edge of the 450 kHz square wave. Time resolution is 500 ns/div
00:02:09amiconnI would have chosen a higher y resolution, but my scope really doesn't like high amplitudes in that frequency range. Remember, this is a 5 MHz scope...
00:04:20*[IDC]Dragon made a picture, too
00:04:40[IDC]Dragonwaiting fo T-Online to settle it in
00:05:16[IDC]Dragonwill be
00:05:39amiconnYeah, it takes a while to travel from the upload server to the web server. That's why I use my own apache (on Amiga) for such quickies
00:05:54[IDC]Dragonnow it's there
00:06:19amiconnWow, dual channel scope
00:06:20[IDC]Dragonthe trailing edge is 2 in one shot
00:06:43[IDC]Dragonsorry, I thought yours, too
00:07:13amiconnI still have a real 2-beam scope tube laying around, together with the transformer, but no other parts
00:07:15[IDC]Dragonbottom is the coil voltage pulse, top is overall current
00:07:59[IDC]Dragoncoil pulse happens to be very narrow there, in buck/boost transition land
00:08:29amiconnMy shot is showing the overall current only
00:08:50amiconn(without any added or removed capacitors)
00:08:50[IDC]Dragonyes, I figured
00:09:13[IDC]Dragonin essence, not much learned
00:09:35[IDC]Dragonyou have power spikes around the switchpoint as well
00:10:13 Quit uski ("Leaving")
00:10:30[IDC]Dragonmy time resolution was 50ns/cm
00:11:23 Join uski [0] (
00:11:46uski\o/ linux and daniel will come to france \o/
00:12:04amiconnHmm. Then it looks in fact different from mine. I can try to do better (go into transition land with the voltage, and choose a higher x resolution. Best I can have is 100 ns/div (it's not cm, really small tube)
00:12:40amiconnWhat voltage did you use?
00:12:54[IDC]Dragongood question
00:13:55[IDC]Dragonabout 3.9-4V
00:14:17[IDC]Dragonuski: will you see them?
00:16:57 Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection)
00:18:03uski[IDC]Dragon, i think i will not :(((((((
00:18:21uskitoo far away from where i'll be
00:19:31amiconn[IDC]Dragon: What is your current measurement y resolution? DC display or AC only? If DC, where would the zero line have been?
00:21:12 Quit uski ("brb...")
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00:23:20 Quit mecraw__ ("Trillian (")
00:23:44[IDC]Dragoncurrent was DC (like all), 200 mV/cm
00:24:27amiconnWith 1 ohm resistor?
00:26:49amiconnWow! If your zero line is the real one, this means an average current of ~320 mA
00:27:07[IDC]Dragonno, this was just somewhere
00:27:55 Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection)
00:28:04amiconnHmm. With 100 ns/div I can't get something that looks trustworthy :(
00:28:41[IDC]Dragonthe Y amps are not going high enough
00:29:20[IDC]Dragonshows the voltage at both coil ends, with 3.9V supply
00:29:34[IDC]Dragonall switching nice and crisp
00:30:03amiconnNo, I get ugly harmonics everywhere, seemingly caused by the scope (or the cable)
00:30:23[IDC]Dragonanyway, this seems pointless
00:31:33amiconnAt 3.9 V you shouldn't get any switching at the lower end of the coil
00:32:19 Quit kurzhaarrocker (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:33:58 Join uski [0] (
00:34:56[IDC]Dragonthe lower one starts below ~4.1 V
00:36:16amiconnThat's way too high, imho. At which point does the upper one stop?
00:36:21[IDC]Dragonsorry, rather 3.9V
00:36:52[IDC]Dragonthe upper stops below 3.3V
00:37:15 Join matsl [0] (
00:37:28amiconnTransition range is merely ~0.2 V for me, but ~0.6 V for you...
00:38:19[IDC]Dragonat what levels?"> below the table
00:39:11[IDC]Dragonah, sorry
00:40:02[IDC]Dragonso, my lower starts too late
00:40:27[IDC]Dragonbut the consumption is bad across the whole range
00:41:13amiconnYeah, that's strange. Did you measure the output voltage across the input range?
00:42:35[IDC]Dragon3.25V flat
00:43:48[IDC]DragonI'd say the chip is just bad. must have some constant internal cross-current
00:43:58[IDC]Dragonbut is working otherwise
00:44:06uskiamiconn, there is a tool freely downloadable from Linear Technology
00:44:19amiconnSame here, 3.24V flat down to 2.3V input
00:44:26uskiit allows you to simulate any schematics using any of Linear's components
00:44:50uski(LTxxx is Linear afaik, so I assume you're speaking of sth using a component from them :))
00:45:05 Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection)
00:45:15amiconn[IDC]Dragon: It may also be the coil, perhaps having a short between 2 windings
00:45:20uskiit must be Linear too
00:45:25uskilemme check
00:45:26amiconnuski: it is
00:45:40[IDC]Dragonuski: yes, we have the datasheet
00:46:25amiconn[IDC]Dragon: A propos datasheet: We should store the Ondio-relevant datasheets in the wiki, not link them. Linus does the same.
00:47:42[IDC]Dragonyes, and move them to where the others are
00:48:26[IDC]Dragonexchanging th coil is difficult for me here, I can do that tomorrow @work
00:49:24amiconnMy unit does indeed work down to 2.3V
00:49:32 Join matsl [0] (
00:50:51uskiwhy do you want to exchange the coil ?
00:50:53*uski is curious
00:51:33[IDC]Dragonthe DC/DC converter in my Ondio has very low efficiency
00:51:50[IDC]Dragonthe unit uses like 3* too much current
00:52:25*amiconn is trying a build without the thread sleeping...
00:52:46uskiit may be the coil but it is possible it's the diode (there must be a diode somewhere) and/or... the PCB routing itself
00:53:03[IDC]Dragonit's a defect
00:53:19uskiyou mean it's only for your particular unit ?
00:53:26amiconnuski: The LT chip does synchronous rectification. It doesn't need diodes
00:53:44[IDC]Dragonand somebody else has a sinilar problem, even worse
00:56:16amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Without SLEEP, I get 82 mA @ 4.6V in the browser. Still a bit less than archos...
00:57:30amiconnHowever, it is way more than rockbox draws with SLEEP used...
01:01:20[IDC]Dragonif I don't sleep very soon, I'm useless tomorrow
01:08:11amiconnI think I should close my box again. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful...
01:09:29[IDC]Dragonthanks, it was definitely worth trying
01:09:48[IDC]Dragonand I learned about buck/boost converters
01:09:55amiconnI just had an idea what the diode might be good for..
01:11:17amiconn..yes indeed, it feeds the usb power into the converter
01:12:19[IDC]Dragonah, yes
01:12:36amiconnAnode is +5V when running from usb
01:13:43[IDC]DragonI'm off for bed
01:13:50[IDC]Dragoncu, thanks!
01:13:57 Quit [IDC]Dragon ()
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02:19:06bagawkamiconn: what does "Das Alte Leid" translate to in english?
02:21:00amiconnIf it really is "Leid" (btw, where does that come from?), it would translate "the old sorrow"
02:21:44bagawkYes, it is Leid
02:22:06bagawkit is a song title by a band named "Rammstein"
02:22:34amiconnAh ok.
02:22:46amiconnTrying to translate lyrics?
02:23:40bagawkNot really, I was interested in learning a few german words
02:23:56amiconnMore often than not, such a translation sounds rather odd (same goes for the other direction, english->german)
02:24:04bagawkI knew of das, and sortof guess at alte
02:24:51bagawkIs Rammstein very popular in Germany?
02:25:36amiconnWell, it is rather popular here.
02:29:34amiconnI'm off for bed now.
02:29:48 Part amiconn
02:38:51bagawkPlugh: there?
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03:22:19Plughbagawk: ya
03:25:50bagawkhey Plugh
03:26:00bagawkdid you get in touch with that guy?
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03:47:07bagawkPlugh: maybe i am silly, but i see no smd LEDS there
03:50:52PlughI dunno. I gave him my specs, he gave me the site
03:50:55Plughtry calling them
03:55:46bagawkbrb Must reboot now.
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03:59:47bagawkwow dopus 8 is better than the old 6
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07:06:36 Join LinusN [0] (
07:06:48midkhi Linus
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09:44:27[IDC]Dragon'morning folks
09:44:31 Quit Bagder_ ("Leaving")
09:45:07[IDC]DragonLinusN, Zagor : you may change the channel subject ;-)
09:45:33Mode"#rockbox +o LinusN " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
09:45:44[IDC]Dragonlet's see...
09:45:52Topic"Rockbox 2.3 is released!!!" by LinusN (
10:02:09[IDC]DragonApple announced a new Ipod, with color display and TV out
10:03:22[IDC]Dragonand features 60 GB
10:03:59Zagorstrangely enough it has no card reader
10:05:05 Join kurzhaarrocker [0] (
10:05:42Bagder60GB 1.8" gotta be an expensive thing
10:06:43[IDC]Dragonit's thicker than the other models
10:08:14 Join amiconn [0] (
10:08:22[IDC]Dragonhi Jens
10:09:12[IDC]DragonI changed th coil (for a real capable one), no improvement
10:09:25[IDC]Dragonso I guess the chip is bad
10:12:22amiconnHmm. I wonder what may have broken the chip, with all those protection circuits
10:15:30[IDC]DragonI try to order a sample, see if it improves
10:16:19Bagderwe should apply kurzhaarrocker recording patch now
10:16:54kurzhaarrockerI just updated it to V2.3
10:17:04BagderI noticed, that's why I came to think of it
10:17:18[IDC]Dragonwhat does it do?
10:17:27kurzhaarrockerIt adds volume triggered recording
10:17:46[IDC]Dragonyou mean, this is ready?
10:18:01kurzhaarrockeryes, since nearly a year.
10:18:21kurzhaarrockerBut I only synched the patch recently
10:18:36[IDC]Dragonahm I thought you're loosely working on it for a long time, not completed yet
10:18:54*[IDC]Dragon misunderstood
10:25:39Plughanyone looked at my feature request?
10:25:55Plughor been too busy on the release?
10:26:21Bagder"Totally 559 requests (64 marked as fixed, 398 open and 97 bad)"
10:26:26Bagder3 9 8
10:26:31Plughthe one marked Plugh
10:26:38Bagderwe're drowning
10:27:03PlughI think mine's 3 lines of code. heh
10:27:12 Quit shiznit ()
10:27:14[IDC]Dragonnah, we're slow, ignorant lazy
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10:32:13kurzhaarrockerBagder: is it you who want to take care of my patch?
10:32:48BagderI think I'd rather leave that to somone else
10:33:00BagderI'm just voting for its inclusion :-)
10:33:29kurzhaarrockerIt's just that I'd like to change the behaviour of the recording led, too.
10:33:41*Bagder noticed ;-)
10:34:17kurzhaarrockerSo I could file a combined patch... or we can go the road of the "small steps"
10:35:12 Part Zagor
10:39:27 Join Zagor [242] (
10:40:23LinusNPlugh: what was your feature request?
10:43:44kurzhaarrockerPlugh: if triggered recording once gets accepted you'll have even better tools for copying cds than fix time splits :)
10:44:03amiconnZagor: Some remarks regarding the 2.3 release: (1) We could finally close the fixed bugs now, correct? (2) Ondio is still not mentioned on the start page (" Rockbox is an Open Source replacement firmware for the Archos Jukebox....") (3) The separate link to the fonts could be removed from the download page. All fonts are included in the distribution. (4) The (again) faster disk access is not mentioned
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10:47:53amiconnZagor: (3) goes as well for the languages.
10:48:35Zagor1,2,3: agree. 4: end users don't really notice
10:49:09Zagorthere are many code-level improvements that don't make it to the release notes
10:49:37*kurzhaarrocker thinks of the settings code...
10:50:02[IDC]Dragonfont rotation, const police, etc.
10:51:14LinusN(2) fixed
10:52:49Plughkurzhaarrocker: actually I'm recording 6-36 hours at a time of live music
10:53:35Plughcertainly sound activated recording would be useful in that case, but even more would be the ability to break the lengthy recordings into usable chunks
10:54:11kurzhaarrockerfor backup. I understand.
10:54:14amiconnZagor: I agree to your opinion about (4), but then I wonder why such improvement was mentioned in earlier elease notes (2.2 iirc)
10:54:22Plughand distribution
10:54:35Plughdistribution more than backup
10:54:52Plughfor backup I would prefer something like 800 meg splits ;)
10:55:41Zagoramiconn: i don't know. maybe I wanted to inflate the change list for 2.2 :-)
10:55:51kurzhaarrockerFor distribution I usually (especially concerning live acts) have to mark the tracks manually anyway. Or do you distribute 74 min cds with one track only, Plugh?
10:55:57Plughif I record 20 DJs at an all-weekend rave, I want to be able to give a DJ like 2 CDs and tell them their set is in that block
10:56:28Plughor for listening in the car or whatnot
10:56:57Zagorwe need a script to close fixed bugs. sourceforge can't filter on "resolution"
10:58:24Bagdershould be fairly easy to write one and curl-close them
10:58:48Zagoryes please :)
10:59:12Bagderjust need to buy more time first
10:59:20Bagderknow any good supplier?
11:00:41Plughkurzhaarrocker: the nature of the content makes it difficult to split into individual tracks
11:00:56Plughnobody's there pushing a button to identify track splits
11:00:58kurzhaarrockerNo gaps? No significant level changes?
11:01:28Plughnope. Continuous mix for as long as 36 hours
11:01:42Plughright now I can split on 60 or 120 min boundaries
11:01:48kurzhaarrockerok then volume triggered recording won't help you :(
11:01:51PlughI just wanna add 74 and 80 min
11:04:00Bagderwhy both?
11:04:21kurzhaarrockerIf we add cd sizes, why only one?
11:06:22LinusNi think it's a good idea
11:06:55Bagderso is 74 and 80 the only CD sizes?
11:07:09Plughultimate would be customizable splits, but...
11:07:18LinusNi think they are the only "official" sizes
11:07:25kurzhaarrockerI think we can leave out the 8" cd size timings.
11:07:33Plughthere's also a 3"
11:08:30LinusNhow accurate are those figures, btw? i mean, can a CD fit *exactly* 74 minutes, or is it 73.97 or 74.23?
11:08:53Plughyou can always overburn, even audio time
11:09:04Plughthe accepted standards are 74 and 80
11:09:13LinusNif i set it to 74 minutes, it may very well be 74 minutes and 4 seconds
11:09:42Plughthe final mp3 size?
11:10:14LinusNat least 74 minutes and 1 second
11:10:14Plughthat should be ok
11:10:19Plughnot much overburn
11:10:43kurzhaarrockerUsually cdr have a little bit more than 74 / 80 minutes.
11:12:16LinusNthose settings will show up as "01:14" and "01:20" in the settings menu
11:13:02kurzhaarrockerHow is the granularity of the timed split defined? Isn't it the frame boundaries?
11:15:02*LinusN is testing the settings
11:17:33PlughYou've just made a lot of DJs happy Linus
11:20:35LinusNnow i'll just have to wait 74 minutes... :-)
11:20:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:21:15kurzhaarrockermeanwhile you could look at triggered recording :)
11:21:40kurzhaarrocker(just in case you get bored)
11:24:45LinusNPlugh: committed
11:24:52LinusNplease test it
11:25:08LinusN(first new feature since 2.3) :-)
11:26:24kurzhaarrockeruff, it doesn't conflict with my patches :)
11:28:02PlughI can't build right now
11:28:08Plughcan't get the cross-compiler built
11:28:20kurzhaarrockerJust wait 20 minutes and you can download a bleeding edge build
11:28:28Plughyeah, I knpw
11:28:37Plughif I can stay awake that long
11:29:39kurzhaarrockerGood attitude. Test a patch before it becomes cold.
11:29:42Plugh+ names, 16, NULL );
11:29:58Plughthat was the line I was missing to get it working by myself
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12:58:10PlughLinusN: the new options show up. I'll have to try a long recording to verify
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14:19:04elinenbeLinusN: you here?
14:29:30elinenbesome more nice iriver commits... it looks like you are in the groove now :)
14:30:41webmindiriver commits?
14:30:48webmindrockbox on irvired
14:30:50webmindiriver ?
14:32:17Zagorwebmind: been away a while eh? :)
14:34:36webmindalmost 4 weeks hospital does that
14:35:27LinusNelinenbe: yeah, worked on the tick timer
14:35:39LinusNso now we can sleep(), WOW!
14:35:45webmindbut uhm
14:35:54webmindrockbocks runs on irvirev ??
14:36:11LinusNbut it will
14:36:14webmindaah cool
14:37:17LinusNhospital? are you *that* webmind?
14:37:28webminduhm yes
14:37:39webmindthere is only 1 webmind
14:38:00LinusNmust have been a not-so-nice-at-all experience
14:38:16webminduhm, yes.. you could put it like that
14:38:42LinusNso how are you now?
14:38:53webmind3 weeks of laying in bed while not being able to do much certainly can be called 'unpleasant'
14:39:10webmindimproving, released from hospotial yesterday
14:39:16webmindnow moving on cruches
14:39:39LinusNbut you will recover completely?
14:39:54webmindprobasbly will yes...
14:40:03LinusNgood to hear
14:40:08webmindmain problem is a broken hip
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15:22:35slazZHi guys
15:22:51slazZHave a problem with the new rockbox version
15:23:06slazZi cannot flash it, to upgrade my box
15:23:30slazZit says: "incompatible version"
15:23:37slazZany suggestions?
15:23:42Zagorfirst run ajbrec.ajz, then run flash
15:24:18slazZi try
15:24:54slazZthx, it works :D
15:24:59 Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
15:25:14slazZanother happy rockbox user ;)
15:36:21kurzhaarrockerSince when are we interested in happy users? Lets keep the developers happy.
15:42:24 Join AciD [0] (
15:43:18slazZaber interessanter nick :p
15:43:43kurzhaarrockerIt used to be langhaarrocker but then something happened...
15:44:00Bagderan unhappy user? ;-O
15:44:18kurzhaarrockerno :)
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15:44:57kurzhaarrocker(otherwise I'd have to call me Glatze by now)
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21:50:04elbosstwetHello. has anyone successfully flashed their Archos Jukebox Recorder with Rockbox 2.3
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