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#rockbox log for 2004-11-08

00:30:41***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:35:45 Quit edx ()
01:03:17 Part scott666_
01:16:00 Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:16:03 Part amiconn
01:28:46 Join bagawk [0] (Lee@bagawk.user)
01:29:01bagawkAnyone awake right now?
01:36:47 Join LinusN [0] (
01:40:10bagawkhey LinusN
01:40:15bagawkI need a littel help
01:40:44bagawkI have not been around rockbox much in a long time, and many changes went without me knowing, and the makefiles have chnaged
01:40:55bagawkThere used to bea EXTRA_DEFINES section, and now it is gone
01:41:07bagawkwhere would i put something that went there now?
01:41:31bagawk(I did the rtc alarm mod...)
01:45:06bagawkI also did the white backlight mod last week, it looks VERY nice now.
01:46:50LinusNEXTRA_DEFINES works for me
01:48:02bagawkOK THanks
01:48:30LinusNi wonder why it doesn't work for you
01:49:09bagawkIt does, i just was not sure where to put it
01:49:38LinusNyou said it was gone
01:50:12bagawkWith the makefile changes done a rather long time ago, yes
01:50:42LinusNi don't get it, it's still there
01:50:50bagawkI do not see it
01:51:06LinusNotherwise the EXTRA_DEFINES=-DHAVE_ALARM_MOD wouldn't work
01:52:08LinusNor are you looking for a place to edit the Makefile?
01:52:52bagawkin the makefile
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02:30:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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04:30:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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06:30:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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08:30:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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08:34:18LinusNmorning amiconn
08:37:41amiconnGood morning LinusN et al
08:38:05amiconnLinusN: Got my mail?
08:38:24LinusNah, yes
08:38:41LinusNgood work (you're crazy)
08:39:29amiconnI just added a wiki page. Maybe this should be linked somewhere (datasheet page?)
08:40:53LinusNwow! nice page indeed
08:42:28LinusNin fact there are lots of wiki pages that could benefit from some linking
08:52:04amiconnI could finally close a feature request over 1 year old :-)
09:04:33amiconnI found that we may need to add an option to the gcc command line for compiling the plugins:
09:05:13amiconnThe current gcc places zero-initialized data in bss, assuming this is zeroed out. However, thiis does not hold true for the plugins
09:05:42amiconnI worked around that in my plugin, got crashes from that befre I did.
09:06:09amiconnThere is an option, -fno-zero-initialized-in-bss
09:25:14DEBUGEOF from server (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 545)
09:25:14***No seen item changed, no save performed.
09:25:14***Started Dancer V4.16
09:25:14DEBUGconnect(2) failed on socket 3 (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 150)
09:25:14DEBUGconnect(2) failed on socket 3 (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 150)
09:25:14DEBUGconnect(2) failed on socket 3 (Connection timed out) (snapshot: netstuff.c line 150)
09:25:14***Connected to on port 6667
09:25:14***Logfile for #rockbox started
09:34:49***Server message 501: 'logbot :Unknown MODE flag'
09:34:49Mode"logbot :+i" by logbot
09:34:49***Server message 477: 'logbot #rockbox :[freenode-info] why register and identify? your IRC nick is how people know you.'
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10:19:01 Join kurzhaarrocker [0] (
10:31:40kurzhaarrockerSomething I alway forgot to mention: when you record from spdif the recording screen should either display the sample rate of the source or no sample rate at all. Currently it displays the sample rate of the settings which doesn't necessarily match the sample rate of the source.
10:38:41amiconnkurzhaarrocker: Good idea. And it might display if s/pdif parity errors occur in the empty area that otherwise displays the gain setting
10:39:25kurzhaarrockerCan we detect that? Doesn't that require to investigate each single frame?
10:46:12 Quit ctp__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:47:52amiconnkurzhaarrocker: There is a status bit telling us about s/pdif parity errors
10:50:16 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (
10:59:12kurzhaarrockerA bit of the mas? And it isn't reset with each frame?
11:02:53LinusNcan we detect the sample rate of the source?
11:03:53kurzhaarrockerMaybe we could occasionally investigate a recorded frame.
11:03:56LinusNwe could of course read the last encoded frame header
11:04:14LinusNbut that header isn't generated in monitoring mode
11:04:50LinusNso it will only be present in prerecording or recording mode
11:06:51kurzhaarrockerIf it's to much trouble then we'd better skip that sample rate freq info instead of displaying wrong values.
11:09:25LinusNnah, we either output <unknown> or the actual rate
11:11:26LinusNamiconn: i saw a discussion about floating point support in the logs the ither day, with miner49er
11:14:21LinusNthere is no math library with rockbox
11:14:56LinusNthat's why sin() and friends are not available
11:15:32LinusNif you want that, you'll have to compile a libm library, like the one in newlib
11:15:38amiconnYes. Floating point math itself is usable, though
11:15:57amiconn..but printf & co don't support it
11:16:21LinusNfor obvious reasons
11:16:32LinusN(code size)
11:16:56kurzhaarrockerMaybe someday we might want a math lib for the plugins only?
11:17:23LinusNon the iriver, we will probably want it in the core as well
11:18:09amiconnLinusN: I'd rather use an integer sine table for demo plugins. It's much faster, and the precision is sufficient.
11:18:24amiconnEven 64 bit math is faster than floating point
11:18:43LinusNyup, no need for libm just for the plasma plugin
11:19:56amiconnThe plasma plugin is 15 KB (?) because of using fp
11:20:30LinusNquite unnecessary
11:20:34kurzhaarrockerSo a math lib is linked to the plugin? Fascinating.
11:21:03LinusNkurzhaarrocker: no, only basic floating point code
11:21:22LinusNthe math lib contains the complex stuff, like fabs(), sin() pow() etc
11:21:34LinusNand that's the one that is missing
11:23:02*kurzhaarrocker is confused
11:23:02kurzhaarrockerSo the basic fp code was copy&pasted to the plasma source? Or is the linker so intelligent that it kicks out unused code of a standard math lib?
11:23:53LinusNbasic fp stuff, like multiplication etc is supported by gcc itself
11:24:26LinusNthat stuff is in the standard c library (libc)
11:25:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:25:56LinusNthe linker only adds the stuff that is used from the library
11:27:38LinusNlunch time
12:14:24LinusNfrom "The Macintosh file system is highly optimized for quickly and efficiently reading and writing files"
12:14:32LinusNwhat a revolution!
12:14:48Zagorwow, that's innovative
12:15:12LinusNthey're always lightyears ahead
12:16:03kurzhaarrockerI still think we should stay with our file system for now and not port to the mac file system to rockbox :)
12:20:56kurzhaarrockerThanks for the lesson, Zagor:
12:26:58Zagori love terse bug reports. #1061647 is a shining beacon of brevity in this world of needlessly bloated and descriptive reports... :-|
12:28:46Zagorit seems he's made it his hallmark to file one-line reports
12:44:43Zagorsourceforge is seriously broken today. I get logged out as soon as I click on a link...
12:46:03webmindyeah.. i received an email about some work on SF
12:48:01Zagoryeah, me too. maybe i should read it ;)
12:48:46LinusNZagor: regarding the shuffle repeat issue
12:49:10LinusNhe seems to claim that the tracks are played twice *in a row*
12:49:33LinusNthat's how i interpret "playes twice
12:49:33LinusN at once"
12:50:29Zagor"some songs are played very often" doesn't sound like that imo
12:50:31kurzhaarrockeror he encountered stereo
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12:51:49LinusNthere are two issues, and "some songs played very often" refers to the fact that some songs often appeared in the beginning of the shuffled list
12:52:52*kurzhaarrocker blushes
12:52:52kurzhaarrockerThere are bug reports about the split editor
12:55:04LinusNperhaps you don't handle the return codes from write()?
12:55:27LinusNhmmm, saving the dynamic playlist takes ages...
12:55:39ZagorI doubt we have a bug that plays the same song twice back-to-back. that is definitely something more people would notice.
12:55:40kurzhaarrockerWhy should I do - in code of alpha state
12:59:18LinusNZagor: he could mean "plays twice at least"...?
13:03:40kurzhaarrockermeating (lunch)
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13:25:20***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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14:18:19quelsarukoh, a lot of know people
14:21:37LinusNhi quelsaruk
14:22:59kurzhaarrockerOh, The Return Of The Techno Priest
14:23:20quelsaruknow it's seriously
14:23:43quelsarukat last... i have inet access at home!!
14:24:17quelsaruk(run away while you are able to...)
14:24:36LinusNwelcome to the modern world, old caveman
14:25:15quelsaruksmoke signals weren't a good idea
14:25:39LinusNterrible round-trip time
14:27:18kurzhaarrockerWhen my electronic devices make smoke signs they usually send me mourning maps and they are write once only
14:28:10quelsaruki don't imagine why... ;)
14:28:43quelsarukok, just came to say i'll keep languages up-to-date again.. if you let :P
14:28:53Zagorquelsaruk: excellent!
14:29:04quelsarukhi zagor
14:32:19amiconn[IDC]Dragon: I see you did some updates to the *flashing guides. One remark: you don't mention rombox.ucl, maybe this will confuse some users if it stays unexplained.
14:33:03[IDC]Dragonah, yes, I should make a note link
14:33:40[IDC]Dragonnote and link (cgiirc likes no plus character)
14:34:43[IDC]Dragonperhaps we should distribute only one .ucl: Rombox for the platform which can, normal for the others
14:35:01[IDC]DragonI see no reason *not* to use rombox
14:35:32amiconnIt's a tiny bit less convenient if you want to update
14:36:40[IDC]Dragonyou should anyway run the new version first
14:37:36amiconnYes I know, and do so (because I always use rombox)
14:37:37quelsaruklunch time!
14:38:04quelsarukcu l8r!
14:38:27amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Is there a description of the uart boot mod somewhere on the site? I could only find the serial mod...
14:38:30 Quit quelsaruk ("Using KVIrc 3.0.1 'System Virtue'")
14:40:35amiconnAh, thanks. It's not linked from the documentation page (that lack of linking again... :-( )
14:41:16LinusNshould perhaps be linked from the Flashing instructions is
14:42:27LinusNin 3 places in FlashingRockbox
14:43:25amiconnI did look under "Hardware" in the DocsIndex, where the serial mod is linked
14:48:14[IDC]Dragonthe uart boot is poorly documented, I never sat down and did it right
14:48:46[IDC]Dragoninstead, I explained it to like 10 individuals, which takes a lot more time
14:49:35[IDC]Dragonbtw, how do you like my new 1st time flashing procedure?
14:49:55LinusNme likes it
14:50:04LinusN(i added the uart link)
14:51:48amiconn[IDC]Dragon: You did prepare new flash images, with empty second slot?
14:52:50amiconn(uart boot mod) I'm asking because I think it's time to put some use to the serial adapter & level converter...
15:19:56*Zagor added a server downtime notice to front page
15:25:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:29:16[IDC]Dragonamiconn: the serial is nicely pictured for the player
15:29:53[IDC]Dragonthe pins you need for the uart boot are available at the same header
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16:33:52[IDC]DragonI made a key assignment table, originally intended to document the Ondio:
16:34:23[IDC]Dragonit turned out to become a rather generic table
16:35:08Zagoranything wrong with ? :)
16:35:43Zagoralthough yours is more complete
16:36:11kurzhaarrockerIs that a typical wiki problem? Everything is there but nobody knows where?
16:36:13[IDC]Dragonwe need a wiki hierarchie, to avoid double work
16:36:43Zagorkurzhaarrocker: isn't that a general internet problem? :)
16:37:08kurzhaarrockerright. Internet is nothing but a wiki in a larger scale.
16:38:33[IDC]DragonOK, what should I do with my table? Besides the layout, I like it, plus it reflects the true state of the code
16:39:17[IDC]Dragon(plugins yet missing)
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16:50:35amiconn[IDC]Dragon, Zagor: The rockbox wiki does have too few inter-page links. Funny enough, this just showed up a number of times today.
16:51:32Zagori agree. but I don't have a simple solution.
16:52:28[IDC]Dragonwiki has no tree-like organization? Is it necessarily flat?
16:53:46Zagorwell flat or tree is up to those who organise it
16:53:59Zagorit's just links
17:08:43Zagorgotta go
17:08:45 Part Zagor
17:09:27amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Iirc I need to cut some connections for the UART boot mod?
17:10:03[IDC]Dragonnot necessarily
17:10:35[IDC]Dragonthe idea is to have the 3 lines to read low on boot, while they are still inputs
17:11:47[IDC]Dragonso I pulled them down with 1kOhm, against their pullups of 10k, iirc
17:12:38[IDC]Dragonbut don't do it exacly like I did, because there was likely something wrong with it, and now I got a broken player
17:13:09[IDC]Dragonplus uski's subject
17:14:11amiconnI think I'll try serial + uart this evening, but then I don't want to destroy my player
17:14:37amiconn(there is still some warranty left, which I'll void anyway)
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17:22:37[IDC]Dragonno, we don't want you to break your Player!
17:24:13amiconnIt's time for some init hunting!
17:25:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:28:56amiconnI need to find 3 points: Tx, Rx, and the pullup array. Unfortunately there are only images showing Tx and Rx
17:29:07amiconn(not even which is which)
17:30:33[IDC]Dragonyou can beep it from the CPU
17:30:59[IDC]Dragoniirc, there is no dedicated pullup array for the player
17:31:44[IDC]Dragonthey just routed the signals somewhere, to pullup arrays used for other signals, too, and single resistors
17:33:00[IDC]Dragonif you want to be plug-compatible with Linus and me, connect the TX from the SH to the tip pin of the plug
17:33:15[IDC]Dragoneasy to remember: Tx to Tip
17:33:39amiconnI didn't plan to connect the serial to the line in socket at all
17:33:59[IDC]Dragonor to some loose plug, however
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19:25:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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20:41:08amiconn_Bagder: r u there?
21:25:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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22:05:42amiconnhi again Jörg
22:05:53[IDC]Dragonhello Jens
22:06:09amiconnSerial + uart boot mod almost done. Now I need something to test it.
22:06:24[IDC]Dragonoh, that was quick
22:06:31amiconnIs it possible to test the serial mod alone, i.e. without pulling the lcd lines?
22:06:50[IDC]Dragonyes, you can "play remote control"
22:06:58[IDC]Dragonfor the input part
22:08:35 Nick _Bagder is now known as Bagder (
22:08:40Bagderhere now
22:08:41amiconnThe player still boots :) It tells me about HD error, but that is expected, without a HD present ;-)
22:09:14[IDC]Dragonwhat did you do so far?
22:09:16amiconnBagder: I wanted to ask about the UART boot mod, but meanwhile found out, by reading the disassembled boot rom
22:09:50[IDC]Dragonoh, I could have sent you a commented one
22:10:03[IDC]Dragonwhat do you want to find out?
22:10:19amiconnI just needed which pin I have to pull. Found that it's PB1..PB3
22:10:50[IDC]Dragongood that you mistrust me, might save your box
22:11:17amiconn[IDC]Dragon: I took it apart (found 2 more solder joints than the description tells), beeped PB0..PB3 and TX/Rx through to the pad area, and connected a 5-wire ribbon cable.
22:12:15amiconnReassembled the boards, did a quick test with batteries (-> HD error), then soldered some ground wires and the connection to the level converter
22:12:35amiconn3 pull down resistors are in place, waiting to be connected to PB1..PB3
22:13:34amiconnNow trying to hook it all up to the PC + lab power supply, lets hope for the best...
22:14:53[IDC]DragonI extensively used the uart boot for the ondio recently
22:15:32[IDC]Dragonmostly because we had no disk access yet, when I did that
22:15:49 Quit methangas (" HydraIRC -> <- :P")
22:16:02[IDC]Dragonthe Ondio is a player, in terns of uart boot (12 MHz)
22:16:31amiconnHmm. I don't know how to "play" remote, without the HD...
22:17:25[IDC]Dragonthen it's difficult to do seperate tests
22:17:41amiconnI could actually connect the hd
22:18:30[IDC]Dragonthe inductive cables made that difficult for me
22:18:50amiconnNow _that_ does look familiar :)
22:19:38amiconnArchos ver 5.08 ...wait.. Rockbox! ... Fortsetzen?
22:25:23amiconnSerial does work!
22:26:01[IDC]Dragonok, how can we test the output?
22:26:27[IDC]DragonI'm afraid you have to write a little code for that
22:26:48[IDC]Dragonhow about a VT100 terminal plugin?
22:27:21amiconnI think that if Rx works, Tx will work too. Now to the interesting part: pulling and uart booting...
22:27:45amiconnBtw: is your uart_boot tool able to handle COM6?
22:27:47*[IDC]Dragon hides
22:28:17[IDC]DragonI think so, it's just a string, passed to the OS, iirc
22:28:50amiconnHow do I compile that? Or are there some binaries somewhere on the web?
22:29:11[IDC]Dragonbinaries, yes
22:29:17[IDC]Dragonnot in my webspace?
22:29:33amiconn -> only images :-(
22:29:54[IDC]Dragonhang on
22:32:38[IDC]Dragonshouls appear soon, under flash/tools
22:33:43amiconnPull down resistors connected...
22:34:21[IDC]DragonI'm not to be held responsible!
22:37:36amiconnGot the program, box started, trying uart_boot -p COM6 -id
22:37:51amiconnNothing happens...
22:39:54amiconnHow long is the monitor download supposed to take?
22:55:41[IDC]Dragonsorry for being away
22:55:47amiconnI unsoldered the pull down resistors again. The first boot attempts did show weird characters. Now it does show Jukebox Ver: 5.08 again, but doesn't go on....
22:55:49[IDC]Dragonwhat's happening?
22:56:39amiconnThe monitor download did not finish
22:56:59[IDC]Dragonmaybe not even start?
22:57:26[IDC]Dragonhow strong are your pulldowns?
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22:58:40amiconn_bah, T-Offline again
22:58:53 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
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22:58:56[IDC]Dragonup to where did you read me?
22:59:44amiconnI did already peek the log... pulldowns are 1 k, pulling against 10 k on the board
23:00:54[IDC]Dragonthat is 3 mA, I consider that far from harmful to anything
23:01:15[IDC]Dragondoes it still not boot?
23:01:27 Join xam [0] (
23:02:03[IDC]Dragonshowing signs of life on the LCD means these lines are OK
23:02:07amiconnNope, it still doesn't boot. Showing Jukebox ver. 5.08, HD is spinng...
23:02:40[IDC]DragonI wonder how it could harm anything else
23:03:02[IDC]Dragoncolliding ssignals?
23:03:38amiconnAh! Now it does boot again!
23:04:01amiconnTried with batteries, although it worked before when running from the lab supply
23:04:24amiconnSo now I wonder what is wrong with the uart boot
23:04:44*[IDC]Dragon mistrusts lab supplies feeding DC/DC converters
23:05:35amiconnThat supply is able to deliver 2.5 Amps, that should be enough
23:05:52amiconnNow also running again from the supply
23:06:58amiconnStill I wonder why the uart boot doesn't work. It display "Downloading monitor..." forever.
23:07:14[IDC]DragonI used 1k, too
23:07:36amiconnWhen I cut the power, it displays "Error transmitting monitor byte 0x48, got 0x0" then goes on waiting...
23:08:23[IDC]Dragona scope is very useful, to monitor the RX line of the Archos
23:08:45*amiconn is digging up the scope...
23:11:16amiconnI could go up to 2k pull down. This should still deliver an input voltage of 0.6 V, less that the maximum 0.8 V for low reading
23:12:25[IDC]Dragondid you check the converter in a loopback mode?
23:12:46[IDC]DragonI use TeraTerm for such ASCII checks
23:13:31amiconnNo I didn't. Should be possible with hyperterm, check if the chars are echoed
23:13:52[IDC]Dragonanother thing I had: sometimes the idle level into the box was too low
23:14:12[IDC]DragonI had to connect a 1-2k pullup against the 3.3V
23:15:24[IDC]Dragonhyperterm also works, but this program sucks. you never know if hyperterm or your hardware has a problem
23:16:11amiconnLoopback does work fine
23:16:49[IDC]Dragonbut better check the line levels when connected to Archos
23:19:25amiconnBoth lines have +3.28 V when idle
23:19:37[IDC]Dragonvery nice
23:22:06amiconnRx is ~ +1 V only when HyperTerm is not connected. 3.28 V when it is
23:23:13[IDC]Dragonis that a feature of the USB adapter? suspend mode?
23:23:41[IDC]Dragonbut wait, you still have theconverter behind that
23:23:48amiconnStarting uart_boot produces some transitions, then stays high
23:24:30[IDC]Dragondo you have the 1V before starting it?
23:24:53[IDC]Dragonthat's perhaps no good
23:25:19[IDC]Dragonwhere does it come from? the converter should drive high or low
23:25:28***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:25:52amiconnMaybe the converter doesn't get (enough) power when the serial port is idle
23:26:10[IDC]Dragondid you measure per merter or scope? is there perhaps a frequency/oscillation?
23:26:28amiconnI did measure with both. There is no oscillation
23:27:18[IDC]Dragonwhat does the converter input side say?
23:28:50amiconnAround 3.27 V, constant, no oscillation, even when trying to uart_boot
23:29:28 Part xam
23:29:29[IDC]Dragonit should be like -12V on idle
23:29:47amiconnAhem, you mean _that_ side.
23:29:50[IDC]Dragonnotebooks usually do less, so maybe -10V
23:30:07amiconnI though that you mean the reverse direction
23:32:15amiconn-7.6 V when idle
23:34:47[IDC]Dragon<amiconn> Maybe the converter doesn't get (enough) power when the serial port is idle
23:35:00[IDC]Dragonyou don't power it externally?
23:35:13amiconnAhem, nope. [23:25:53] <amiconn> Maybe the converter doesn't get (enough) power when the serial port is idle
23:35:42*amiconn is hooking up the +5v to the pos. batt. terminal...
23:35:50[IDC]Dragonyou'd better do that
23:40:23amiconnNow the voltage does not change on port idle - port busy transition
23:41:44amiconnAh! It seems to work!!!
23:41:58amiconnDownloading monitor done.
23:41:58amiconnWriting flash dump into file test.rom...
23:43:48amiconnNow for the cool stuff: When I want to boot rockbox via uart_boot, I do need the bin file, right?
23:44:43amiconnWhat if I want to use gdb? Do I have to download the debug .bin via uart_boot, then somehow switch the serial connection over?
23:45:08[IDC]DragonI have an uncommitted LCD drive, which should do the init like Archos
23:45:23[IDC]Dragonyou can download gdb via uart boot
23:45:49[IDC]Dragonthe LCD was unrelated to your question
23:46:08amiconnYes of course.
23:46:55amiconnI still wonder how to do that gdb stuff. If I want to use gdb, I have to download the debug build to the box first, using uart_boot
23:47:16[IDC]Dragongdb: you load and execute gdb with the uart boot
23:47:17amiconnThen I have to connect this somehow to the gdb program itself, also via serial ?!?
23:47:33[IDC]Dragonthen you start the debugger, which uses the stub
23:48:16amiconnYes, that is what I mean. But before I start the debugger, there is a "gap" in the serial connection. Does that matter?
23:48:53[IDC]Dragonthe serial is just idle
23:49:27[IDC]Dragonbtw: does the spindown option work?
23:49:42amiconnThe disk is not spinning at all.
23:49:53[IDC]Dragoneven better
23:50:03amiconnWhen I connect power, backlight and green led come on even without pressing "On"
23:52:45amiconnWhy does uart boot dump 512 KB of ROM?
23:53:25[IDC]Dragonoh, you have an older version of uart_boot
23:53:37[IDC]Dragonbecause I soldered 512 kB in
23:53:42amiconnThat's the one you just uploaded...
23:53:59[IDC]Dragonit was a premade zip
23:54:26[IDC]Dragonmust have been on my webspace, because it comes with a readme
23:54:41[IDC]Dragondo you want the current one?
23:54:53[IDC]Dragon(no extra features)
23:55:02amiconnAre there bug fixes or such?
23:55:11[IDC]Dragonnot that I know of
23:55:23[IDC]Dragonexcept the 256 k reduction
23:55:24amiconnSo I think the one I have is sufficient.
23:55:46amiconnCertainly I won't dump the rom that often
23:55:58amiconnBtw: 14400 bps is really slow.
23:56:02*[IDC]Dragon checks the cvs history of it

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