| 00:01:39 | | Quit Quel|away (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 00:05:13 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 00:11:08 | | Join midk [0] (~midk@c66-235-14-120.sea2.cablespeed.com) |
| 00:17:46 | | Join krusbjorn [0] (~Miranda@81216100106-KARLSBORGSENERGI-NET.host.songnetworks.se) |
| 00:23:01 | | Join ^ShAtZMaN^ [0] (~Im@line133-131.adsl.actcom.co.il) |
| 00:24:00 | ^ShAtZMaN^ | anyone here? |
| 00:24:46 | ^ShAtZMaN^ | check you out later... good night... sleepy time =] |
| 00:24:49 | | Quit ^ShAtZMaN^ (Client Quit) |
| 00:29:59 | | Quit edx () |
| 00:38:29 | | Part krusbjorn |
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| 00:54:39 | | Join Yono [0] (~Lisa@69-169-157-26.bflony.adelphia.net) |
| 00:54:45 | Yono | hey |
| 01:00 |
| 01:12:26 | | Join LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se) |
| 01:12:55 | amiconn | hi LinusN |
| 01:13:02 | LinusN | hi |
| 01:13:55 | amiconn | I found the cause for the slow (Ondio: awfully slow) fprintf and other functions using single character writes |
| 01:14:03 | LinusN | aha |
| 01:14:19 | amiconn | It is a bug in file.c, introduced by Zagor 20 months ago (!) |
| 01:14:26 | LinusN | wonderful |
| 01:14:59 | amiconn | Before I commit a fix, I would like to /briefly) discuss the best way to fix it. |
| 01:15:37 | LinusN | hit me |
| 01:15:38 | amiconn | Please have a look at file.c, line 462, and the diff between ver 1.42 and 1.43 |
| 01:16:53 | LinusN | that change was reverted, wasn't it? |
| 01:17:23 | amiconn | Nope. |
| 01:17:47 | LinusN | in 1.44 |
| 01:18:34 | amiconn | No, it wasn't, please let me explain (as I understand it) |
| 01:18:42 | LinusN | the change between 1.42 and 1.43 was reverted in 1.44 |
| 01:18:59 | LinusN | and he solved it in flush_cache instead |
| 01:19:04 | amiconn | Obviously, the original intention was that the written headbytes have to be flushed from the cache *if* the write does not end there, i.e. there is data left for whole sector and/or trailer write |
| 01:20:09 | amiconn | Hence it was if(count && file->dirty) , so the flush was only executed if headbytes were written and count was not zero afterwards (correct behaviour) |
| 01:21:28 | LinusN | sorry, i was looking in the wrong place |
| 01:21:34 | amiconn | In 1.43 this was changed (and it's still in 1.58 !) to if(nread && file->dirty) - which *always* flushes if there were any headbytes written, even if the write ends here! |
| 01:22:13 | amiconn | This obviously hits single byte writes, because every sector is read and written 512 times (!) |
| 01:22:22 | LinusN | wow! |
| 01:22:31 | Bagder | nice catch |
| 01:22:58 | amiconn | I already tested the "old" behaviour - save time for config files on Ondio down from ~20 sec to << 1 sec |
| 01:24:26 | amiconn | So now the question is *how* to fix this properly. I could simply change it back to if(count && file->dirty) , however, if I read correct we can get rid of the whole construct (lines 462...466) |
| 01:24:34 | amiconn | Why? |
| 01:25:13 | amiconn | Because, if this is changed to if(count && file->dirty) , the condition should never be true (!) |
| 01:25:58 | | Part Yono |
| 01:26:00 | | Quit AciD (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 01:26:34 | LinusN | because count == 0? |
| 01:26:41 | LinusN | i don't see it |
| 01:27:11 | amiconn | There are 2 possibilities: (1) The read does not end here, indicated by count > 0. In that case the head sector obviously has to be written up to the end, which causes line 442 ff do the flush |
| 01:27:36 | amiconn | s/read/write/ |
| 01:28:17 | amiconn | (2) The write *does* end here, indicated by count == 0. In that case it is not necessary (and not even desired) to flush here |
| 01:30:22 | LinusN | i see |
| 01:31:54 | amiconn | We could do a simple test: Change it to if (count && file->dirty) panic(...) This panic should never be triggered |
| 01:32:29 | Bagder | my car's display said -5 C on the way home just now |
| 01:32:37 | Bagder | the winter is coming |
| 01:32:44 | * | Bagder goes to sleep |
| 01:32:53 | amiconn | nite Bagder |
| 01:33:05 | Bagder | ask LinusN about mpeg.c bugs! ;-) |
| 01:33:11 | * | Bagder ducks and runs |
| 01:33:16 | LinusN | /kick Bagder |
| 01:33:33 | amiconn | Erm, actually.... ;-) |
| 01:36:25 | | Join gromit [0] (~gromit@m142.net81-65-78.noos.fr) |
| 01:36:29 | gromit | hi |
| 01:37:27 | LinusN | hi |
| 01:39:04 | amiconn | LinusN: I did a quick test - config save on Ondio does not trigger the panicf() I added :) |
| 01:39:26 | LinusN | nice |
| 01:40:01 | gromit | i have a little question... |
| 01:40:12 | gromit | have you encountered rsa signed firmware updates |
| 01:40:12 | gromit | ? |
| 01:40:21 | LinusN | no |
| 01:40:27 | gromit | gasp :x |
| 01:40:46 | gromit | gmini updates are signed with a rsa 768 |
| 01:41:39 | gromit | strong implementation |
| 01:41:42 | gromit | ... |
| 01:42:54 | webmind | er |
| 01:43:09 | webmind | 768bit rsa ? |
| 01:43:13 | gromit | ya |
| 01:43:23 | gromit | md5 digest of the fw code |
| 01:43:27 | webmind | isn't that a bit stupid ? |
| 01:43:42 | gromit | then this md5 + other stuff ciphered with rsa |
| 01:43:45 | gromit | why ? |
| 01:44:13 | webmind | why so small ? |
| 01:44:18 | gromit | we tried to factor it with methods for weak keys |
| 01:44:20 | gromit | but no result |
| 01:44:24 | gromit | not so small |
| 01:44:29 | gromit | the one used by ssh |
| 01:45:38 | gromit | the fact is we cannot pack our own fw |
| 01:45:55 | gromit | since we have no way obtaining the private key |
| 01:46:17 | gromit | and methods for dynamically overwriting the key seem very difficult |
| 01:46:37 | gromit | since all the memory used is static buffers |
| 01:46:53 | gromit | almost nothing on the stack |
| 01:47:28 | gromit | :x |
| 01:48:04 | LinusN | but the key must be the same for all firmwares and versions, right? |
| 01:48:24 | amiconn | LinusN: I just did a recording test with my v1 - it also did not panic. What do you think about commiting this simplification? Maybe I should run my pseudo-random file system stress test before? |
| 01:48:47 | gromit | right |
| 01:48:57 | LinusN | amiconn: run the vbrfix plugin |
| 01:49:07 | gromit | i think so |
| 01:49:10 | gromit | w8 |
| 01:49:42 | amiconn | LinusN: Runs without probs |
| 01:49:47 | | Join jyp [0] (~jyp@185.91-201-80.adsl.skynet.be) |
| 01:49:55 | gromit | hi |
| 01:50:00 | gromit | [01:43] <LinusN> but the key must be the same for all firmwares and versions, right? |
| 01:50:09 | gromit | can you confirm ? |
| 01:50:18 | jyp | Yes |
| 01:50:27 | jyp | Its should |
| 01:50:48 | LinusN | so we need to find the key once and for all |
| 01:51:00 | jyp | Unless they do non-compatible upgrades |
| 01:51:04 | LinusN | but the flash is scrambled |
| 01:52:30 | gromit | hrm |
| 01:53:01 | amiconn | The flash content alone may not be very helpful, since it contains the public key for decryption. We need to find the private key for encryption |
| 01:53:14 | jyp | Exactly |
| 01:53:55 | jyp | I have the public key, BTW |
| 01:54:06 | gromit | we have the deciphered fw |
| 01:54:10 | gromit | also |
| 01:54:17 | gromit | everything but the private key |
| 01:54:36 | jyp | Basically we can crack either md5 or RSA 768 |
| 01:54:48 | jyp | Both are nasty ;( |
| 01:55:03 | LinusN | ah, yes of course |
| 01:58:49 | jyp | I was wondering if Archos would be willing to give it away... Maybe you rockbox guys know their stance wrt. that ? |
| 01:58:59 | jyp | Private key |
| 01:59:14 | LinusN | we have no contact with them |
| 01:59:45 | jyp | So they are probably neutral; |
| 02:00 |
| 02:00:04 | LinusN | they must have signed the firmwares for a reason |
| 02:00:24 | LinusN | and i can't see any other reason than stopping 3rd party firmwares |
| 02:00:27 | jyp | Yup; they planned to sell plugins for the gmini |
| 02:01:09 | jyp | yet they seem to have given up on the idea |
| 02:01:34 | LinusN | i'm really sorry, i just have to get some sleep |
| 02:01:48 | jyp | Sure... Me too btw ;) |
| 02:01:49 | LinusN | have to get up to work in 3 hours |
| 02:01:58 | jyp | Ouch |
| 02:02:00 | LinusN | cu around guys |
| 02:02:04 | amiconn | LinusN: I'll let the fs test run, if it's okay, I'll probably commit |
| 02:02:06 | midk | nite Linus |
| 02:02:07 | LinusN | and amiconn: commit it |
| 02:02:14 | gromit | wow |
| 02:02:14 | gromit | gn LinusN |
| 02:02:18 | LinusN | nite |
| 02:02:22 | | Part LinusN |
| 02:05:16 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 02:05:52 | amiconn | gromit, jyp: As you know the firmware, the md5 (which is then rsa encrypted) is known to you. Are there no known-plaintext attacks to rsa, especially since you know the public key too? |
| 02:06:50 | gromit | apparently no |
| 02:06:50 | jyp | our md5 is not plaintext |
| 02:07:19 | jyp | for RSA, the 768 bits size puts cracking beyond our reach. |
| 02:07:47 | amiconn | Why not? You already have the encrypted, and you can calculate the unencrypted one (across the firmware iiuc) |
| 02:08:06 | jyp | It is RSA signature |
| 02:08:32 | jyp | so it requires their private key to sign the firmware |
| 02:08:59 | jyp | but everyone can decrypt the signature given the public key |
| 02:09:25 | jyp | s/but/despite |
| 02:09:45 | amiconn | I know. What I mean is: you have the public key, the plaintext (calculate the md5 across the firmware) and the ciphertext (rsa encrypted md5) |
| 02:09:58 | jyp | true enough |
| 02:10:36 | jyp | yet RSA holds up to that |
| 02:10:47 | amiconn | Hmm, too bad :( |
| 02:13:41 | amiconn | Perhaps it's possible to fool the loader somehow, there must be some bugs that can be exploited (given the bug count in the jukebox loader) |
| 02:13:55 | gromit | hmm ? |
| 02:14:15 | gromit | what was this bug ? |
| 02:16:10 | amiconn | I mean, the archos loader in the jukeboxes/ ondio boot rom has some bugs. I don't know all of them, but I just encountered one when investigating the lcd init on the player. |
| 02:16:28 | amiconn | It is likely that the gmini loader also has some bugs. Perhaps there is one that can be exploited somehow... |
| 02:17:10 | gromit | quite difficult though i see no other solution |
| 02:17:35 | amiconn | Iirc some (all?) xbox hacks use the same technique... |
| 02:17:45 | gromit | ya |
| 02:17:47 | gromit | font exploit |
| 02:17:56 | gromit | and buffer overflow in a game |
| 02:18:31 | gromit | when loading saved games |
| 02:18:52 | gromit | but finding such flaws is far from easy |
| 02:19:39 | amiconn | Of course... but maybe easier than finding a 768 bit private key |
| 02:19:52 | gromit | :)) |
| 02:20:16 | gromit | noone in our team is experienced in such techniques |
| 02:22:24 | amiconn | I'm not experienced in that either... but I can imagine how to do such things. Of course, one has to know the particular CPU & assembler code very well |
| 02:23:02 | gromit | we have the theory.. not the practice |
| 02:23:19 | jyp | Overwriting the public key data is a way |
| 02:23:48 | jyp | we could investigate what's around it |
| 02:24:38 | jyp | and hope there's variable length data in there ;) |
| 02:29:53 | jyp | Goodnight everyone... |
| 02:29:57 | | Quit jyp () |
| 02:30:32 | gromit | going to bed too |
| 02:30:46 | | Join amiconn_ [0] (~jens@pD9E7FFB4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 02:31:14 | gromit | cya tomorrow |
| 02:31:27 | | Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.) |
| 02:31:28 | | Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (~jens@pD9E7FFB4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 02:31:28 | gromit | we'll try to continue the stuff |
| 02:32:07 | amiconn | nite |
| 02:32:50 | gromit | thx |
| 03:00 |
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| 07:00 |
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| 07:13:57 | | Quit Stryke` ("Friends don't let friends listen to Anti-Flag") |
| 07:38:06 | | Quit mecraw_ ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)") |
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| 07:46:14 | | Join oxygen77 [0] (~oxygen@pauguste-7-82-66-87-78.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 07:53:20 | | Join LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se) |
| 08:00 |
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| 08:16:42 | | Quit adi|home (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 08:18:26 | | Join amiconn [0] (~jens@pD9E7FFB4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:18:33 | | Join gromit` [0] (~gromit@m142.net81-65-78.noos.fr) |
| 08:19:48 | LinusN | morning amiconn |
| 08:20:02 | amiconn | Good morning Linus et al |
| 08:20:10 | midk | morning linus |
| 08:20:17 | midk | didn't i just say nite a few minutes ago? :) |
| 08:20:51 | amiconn | LinusN: Funny answer in the forum ;) |
| 08:21:50 | midk | where where? |
| 08:22:41 | amiconn | LinusN: "..Do you have a recorder or a player/studio?" The topic is about a JB 6000... |
| 08:23:50 | LinusN | many rec6 users refer to their player as Jukebox 6000 |
| 08:23:59 | midk | :) haha |
| 08:24:25 | LinusN | so you don't really know until you've asked |
| 08:24:43 | | Join Bagder_ [0] (~daniel@1-1-5-26a.hud.sth.bostream.se) |
| 08:25:21 | | Quit gromit`` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 08:26:38 | LinusN | Bagder_: i tried our new approach, with lousy results so far... :-) |
| 08:27:06 | Bagder_ | had enough coffee yet for that? ;-) |
| 08:27:29 | Bagder_ | I think it should work! |
| 08:28:37 | Bagder_ | but then, do we know the load index is actually the source of the repeat problem we saw? |
| 08:29:14 | LinusN | Bagder_: i did it last night, so there is a slight possibility that i did something wrong :-) |
| 08:29:24 | Bagder_ | ah |
| 08:33:26 | Bagder_ | "The problem is that we have some very large JPEGs (around 1GB) and the time taken to check them in is very long (more than an hour)" |
| 08:33:44 | LinusN | ? |
| 08:33:46 | Bagder_ | hehe |
| 08:33:54 | LinusN | 1GB JPEG |
| 08:34:02 | Bagder_ | a svn user |
| 08:34:27 | LinusN | something for jpeg.rock to chew on |
| 08:34:57 | midk | holy hell |
| 08:35:11 | midk | a 1gb jpeg viewed with the .rock? |
| 08:35:28 | LinusN | :-) |
| 08:35:44 | | Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 08:35:51 | midk | that's crazy |
| 08:53:49 | | Join AciD [0] (~gni@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 09:00 |
| 09:03:06 | amiconn | LinusN: Did you notice that the wiki diff viewing sometimes doesn't work? |
| 09:03:49 | LinusN | no |
| 09:04:49 | LinusN | ah, just tried in IriverHardwareComponents |
| 09:04:53 | LinusN | no diff |
| 09:05:17 | | Join einhirn_ [0] (Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de) |
| 09:05:43 | amiconn | LinusN: yup. |
| 09:05:51 | | Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 09:06:06 | amiconn | However, it does work for some topics... |
| 09:10:11 | LinusN | it happens to topics that have been renamed/moved |
| 09:10:50 | amiconn | Ah. Sounds like a twiki bug... |
| 09:11:44 | LinusN | yes |
| 09:16:20 | khrocker | "I haven't used the voice feature myself" (LinusN: You should try to speak to people sometimes. It can be quite funny.) |
| 09:17:08 | | Nick khrocker is now known as kurzhaarrocker (~knoppix@p508778EF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:17:10 | LinusN | hehe |
| 09:17:36 | LinusN | i'm not that social, you know |
| 09:18:04 | * | kurzhaarrocker won't believe that |
| 09:18:06 | LinusN | and speaking is a luxury for those who have physical friends :-) |
| 09:20:02 | | Join gromit`` [0] (~gromit@m142.net81-65-78.noos.fr) |
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| 09:25:29 | Bagder_ | the snow is coming... |
| 09:26:02 | * | kurzhaarrocker turns on his electric foot heater |
| 09:26:32 | Bagder_ | time to put on the "winter wheels" on the car |
| 09:29:48 | Bagder_ | but now, sleeping time for tiny girl |
| 09:29:50 | | Quit Bagder_ ("Leaving") |
| 09:30:22 | * | kurzhaarrocker didn't know that Bagder is a tiny girl |
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| 09:59:14 | | Join quelsaruk [0] (~kvirc@80.103.140.135) |
| 09:59:21 | quelsaruk | good morning |
| 10:00 |
| 10:02:53 | Bagder | coffee time |
| 10:05:23 | quelsaruk | the only thing we have in common |
| 10:05:24 | quelsaruk | :D |
| 10:05:29 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 10:05:43 | quelsaruk | coffee time == spanish breakfast time ;) (more or less) |
| 10:06:43 | Bagder | hehe |
| 10:08:24 | kurzhaarrocker | Does anybody know a tiny freeware tool for editing html image maps? |
| 10:08:47 | Bagder | tiny no, but gimp has a plugin for it |
| 10:10:15 | kurzhaarrocker | Gimp, cool. Should that plugin be included with the standard install? Never stumbled across it. |
| 10:10:33 | Bagder | I think it is, been a long time since I used it |
| 10:10:44 | kurzhaarrocker | Thanks |
| 10:10:49 | * | kurzhaarrocker searches |
| 10:11:07 | Bagder | yes, its there |
| 10:11:19 | Bagder | filters->web |
| 10:11:38 | kurzhaarrocker | great |
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| 10:21:16 | | Join AciD [0] (~gni@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 10:36:42 | amiconn | LinusN: I just discovered a rather annoying while driving to work. It seems that it is caused by your track repeat fix :( |
| 10:36:50 | amiconn | *annoying bug |
| 10:37:02 | Bagder | yes |
| 10:37:09 | LinusN | amiconn: i know, that's what i and bagder worked on last night |
| 10:37:10 | Bagder | we were gonna fix that yday |
| 10:37:15 | LinusN | and i am still working on it |
| 10:37:25 | Bagder | and while fixing that we were "just gonna fix this too" |
| 10:37:46 | Bagder | ... and ended up in a reeaaaal mess |
| 10:38:07 | * | LinusN is testing the new fix as we speak |
| 10:38:26 | Bagder | amiconn: we hope to have fixed the NULL writes too |
| 10:41:22 | amiconn | I don't know if you already know that special effect: I started to play tracks in a dir (not shuffled, and sufficiently long to never have a complete track in mem, with 2 MB) |
| 10:42:04 | amiconn | If start playing track i of n, it starts correctly, and the wps also shows i/n |
| 10:42:55 | | Join Bagder_ [0] (~daniel@1-1-5-26a.hud.sth.bostream.se) |
| 10:42:58 | amiconn | But: when the track ends, it does not continue with track i+1, but plays track 2*i instead. However, the wps shows (i+1)/n ... |
| 10:43:30 | amiconn | Consequently, if i is >n/2 at the start, playback stops at the end of the track |
| 10:50:37 | LinusN | yes i know |
| 10:50:48 | | Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 10:51:29 | Bagder_ | "the fix" will correct that |
| 10:51:41 | Bagder_ | and about 13 other flaws |
| 10:52:30 | | Join AciD [0] (~gni@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 10:57:18 | LinusN | amiconn: the wiki diff problem should be fixed now |
| 10:57:43 | | Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (~d90a3255@labb.contactor.se) |
| 11:00 |
| 11:08:37 | [IDC]Dragon | 'morning folks! |
| 11:10:22 | [IDC]Dragon | do you remember the spindown in USB mode topic? |
| 11:10:52 | gromit`_ | re |
| 11:11:27 | [IDC]Dragon | works with my Fujitsu disk, but doesn't work on somebody else's Toshiba |
| 11:12:35 | [IDC]Dragon | now I'm about to get a 100 GB drive, Toshiba is a bit cheaper and less power consuming |
| 11:13:17 | [IDC]Dragon | but I don't want to sacrifice the idle spindown in USB mode |
| 11:13:58 | LinusN | i think the solution is to change the powersave mode before entering usb mode |
| 11:14:22 | [IDC]Dragon | so I'm wondering the current Toshiba models still lack this, or if it's a special Fujitsu feature |
| 11:15:04 | LinusN | today, set_features() sets the lowest powersave mode *without* spindown |
| 11:15:20 | [IDC]Dragon | LinusN: sounds good, changing it before USB mode |
| 11:15:26 | LinusN | we should change that before entering USB mode to lowest *with* spindown |
| 11:15:50 | LinusN | then the drive will automatically spin down after a while, often 30s |
| 11:16:04 | [IDC]Dragon | so my Fujitsu is special in ignoring this, or how does it happen now? |
| 11:16:12 | LinusN | the current hack is lousy |
| 11:16:30 | [IDC]Dragon | hack? |
| 11:19:03 | LinusN | usb.c:usb_slave_mode(), calls ata_standby(15) before entering usb mode |
| 11:21:29 | [IDC]Dragon | ok, so could get any disk, and if it doesn't spindown it's a nice motivation to fix this in software ;-) |
| 11:21:45 | | Nick quelsaruk is now known as Quel|away (~kvirc@80.103.140.135) |
| 11:22:14 | LinusN | [IDC]Dragon: exactly :-) |
| 11:23:14 | [IDC]Dragon | currently, is USB spindown the rule or the exception? |
| 11:25:13 | LinusN | i don't know |
| 11:32:40 | | Quit einhirn_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 11:32:46 | | Join einhirn [0] (Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de) |
| 11:33:52 | | Quit Bagder_ ("Leaving") |
| 11:35:10 | amiconn | Hi [IDC]Dragon |
| 11:35:41 | [IDC]Dragon | hi Jens |
| 11:36:03 | amiconn | Yesterday afternoon you wanted to ask/ tell me something? |
| 11:36:23 | [IDC]Dragon | btw, marvellous catch on the fs bug :-) |
| 11:37:03 | [IDC]Dragon | yesterday I was looking at the silence addition |
| 11:37:59 | [IDC]Dragon | I coudn't come up with a simple solution, as stupid as it seems |
| 11:38:58 | [IDC]Dragon | some catches: |
| 11:39:09 | [IDC]Dragon | 1) the pause clip needs to be preloaded, in the Ondio case |
| 11:39:45 | [IDC]Dragon | 2) the queue is also used for the talkbox clips, the queue itself can't distinguish |
| 11:40:19 | [IDC]Dragon | (and for those, the voice file may not be currently loaded) |
| 11:42:56 | [IDC]Dragon | I don't like several new global variables and a bunch of special-case if's |
| 11:48:55 | amiconn | Hmm. As it is now, we can't use 12 kHz samples because then half words are swallowed. With 16 kHz the voice file space is already rather tight |
| 11:49:45 | amiconn | You are right about the talkbox problem, but imho it is not necessary to do the silence scheduling for these. |
| 11:50:43 | amiconn | So the queue *has* to distinguish between voice file and talkbox clips, either via address range, or by adding a new member to the queue struct |
| 11:58:15 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: I can send you voice files using 12 kHz if you want to hear the effect yourself |
| 12:00 |
| 12:05:34 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 12:18:50 | | Join cray3 [0] (fwuser@203.129.254.22) |
| 12:20:54 | | Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 12:21:12 | | Join AciD`` [0] (~gni@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 12:23:03 | | Quit webguest97 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 12:25:05 | gromit`_ | lafouine> les valeurs hardcod�s et dans le fichier de conf |
| 12:25:11 | gromit`_ | sorry |
| 12:25:11 | gromit`_ | :) |
| 12:42:35 | LinusN | regarding the (upcoming) WPS context menu, what exactly is the context? |
| 12:42:47 | LinusN | is it "the wps" or "the currently playing song" |
| 12:48:11 | | Join webguest42 [0] (~3e317522@labb.contactor.se) |
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| 12:51:50 | | Join AciD [0] (~gni@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 12:56:02 | webguest42 | hows the iRiver port going? :) |
| 12:56:22 | LinusN | so so |
| 12:56:37 | LinusN | fixed a bug in the lcd driver yesterday |
| 12:56:53 | LinusN | but still no go with the ATA controller |
| 13:00 |
| 13:08:31 | dwihno | Marvellous! |
| 13:10:09 | | Quit cray3 ("Leaving") |
| 13:10:57 | dwihno | ATA is a hard nut to crack? |
| 13:13:56 | LinusN | han, have to figure out how to set up the internal IDE controller |
| 13:15:44 | dwihno | ah |
| 13:15:53 | dwihno | sounds hard :) |
| 13:18:10 | webguest42 | i saw the commit to the lcd driver ... nice to know progress is being made. Thank you LinusN for all your hard work on this |
| 13:20:06 | dwihno | yes. I really appreciate it |
| 13:20:36 | LinusN | you're welcome |
| 13:20:51 | webguest42 | :) |
| 13:20:57 | | Nick webguest42 is now known as ripnetuk (~3e317522@labb.contactor.se) |
| 13:27:06 | dwihno | So the day Rockbox boots on the iriver, I have to shell out for a unit, so PLEASE, don't commit your magic changes yet linus... I'm a poor man :) |
| 13:29:59 | LinusN | hehe, i'd better hurry anyway, cause soon there will be no more irivers to buy |
| 13:30:26 | LinusN | the H1xx model has been discontinued |
| 13:31:32 | [IDC]Dragon | ohh |
| 13:31:45 | [IDC]Dragon | from where is that info? |
| 13:32:11 | LinusN | iriver |
| 13:32:27 | LinusN | well, many retailers claim it |
| 13:32:41 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: Got my comments? |
| 13:32:42 | LinusN | no official confirmation though |
| 13:33:49 | [IDC]Dragon | amiconn: ah, yes |
| 13:34:31 | [IDC]Dragon | if you have a 12 kHz file available, I'd like it |
| 13:35:53 | ripnetuk | cya |
| 13:35:57 | | Quit ripnetuk ("CGI:IRC") |
| 13:36:14 | [IDC]Dragon | LinusN: starting on disontinued hardware becomes a pattern |
| 13:36:28 | dwihno | LinusN: how about the newer hardware... is it a completely different beast to handle? |
| 13:36:32 | [IDC]Dragon | the Ondio is also not manufactured any more |
| 13:36:47 | LinusN | dwihno: the 300? |
| 13:37:23 | dwihno | LinusN: yeah |
| 13:37:38 | LinusN | it seems pretty similar |
| 13:38:02 | LinusN | so it may not be that much work to port to the 300 once we get it running on the 100 |
| 13:38:13 | dwihno | Fist we take Manhattan. |
| 13:38:17 | dwihno | Then we take berlin. |
| 13:38:21 | dwihno | We, being you ;) |
| 13:38:28 | LinusN | :-) |
| 13:38:38 | LinusN | "20 years of boredom..." |
| 13:44:54 | | Quit silencer1 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 13:49:08 | | Join silencer_ [0] (~silencer@zen.via.ecp.fr) |
| 13:58:26 | | Quit ze (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 14:00 |
| 14:05:37 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 14:06:22 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: http://arnold-j.bei.t-online.de/Rockbox/deutsch_Klara_12kHz.zip and http://arnold-j.bei.t-online.de/Rockbox/english_Crystal_12kHz.zip |
| 14:08:00 | [IDC]Dragon | amiconn: thanks, I'll download it later, when home |
| 14:08:32 | | Quit Quel|away (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 14:15:37 | | Part kurzhaarrocker |
| 14:27:15 | | Part Zagor |
| 14:31:26 | | Join unholiest [0] (~kvirc@80.103.139.104) |
| 14:32:31 | | Nick unholiest is now known as quelsaruk (~kvirc@80.103.139.104) |
| 14:32:37 | quelsaruk | re-hi |
| 14:35:16 | webmind | wb |
| 14:37:10 | | Join elinenbe [0] (~elinenbe_@65.115.46.225) |
| 14:38:41 | | Join Zagor [242] (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) |
| 14:40:54 | quelsaruk | hi Zagor |
| 14:41:01 | Zagor | hi |
| 14:41:22 | Zagor | i accidentally rebooted my computer :) |
| 14:41:31 | quelsaruk | with the leg? |
| 14:41:49 | [IDC]Dragon | with the boot ;-) |
| 14:42:49 | [IDC]Dragon | I've seen PCs with the CD eject button next to power/reset |
| 14:44:22 | | Quit quelsaruk (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 14:45:03 | Zagor | actually it was software-triggered. i went for coffee, and when I came back my screen had locked and turned itself off (like it does after 5 mins or so). so I pressed the key sequence to unlock it and type my password. only it wasn't locked, so my password triggered the shutdow shortkey... :) |
| 14:45:34 | LinusN | lol |
| 14:50:50 | * | Bagder detects a LinusN mpeg commit! |
| 14:52:51 | [IDC]Dragon | lots of commits |
| 14:53:10 | [IDC]Dragon | LinusN has a safe lead again |
| 14:53:20 | LinusN | :-) |
| 14:54:13 | [IDC]Dragon | can we enable the memory "watchdog" by default now? |
| 14:54:35 | Bagder | someone should try it at least |
| 15:00 |
| 15:01:35 | elinenbe | LinusN: how is the iriver side of the project coming? |
| 15:01:43 | LinusN | so so |
| 15:01:56 | LinusN | have problems getting the ATA controller to work |
| 15:01:58 | * | Bagder got to feel some iriver debugging ydat |
| 15:02:02 | Bagder | yday |
| 15:02:18 | LinusN | some sweet BDM love |
| 15:06:05 | LinusN | i have a nice working wps context menu on my recorder |
| 15:06:34 | LinusN | so far only one static menu entry, "view id3 info" |
| 15:07:00 | LinusN | but you can add entries with the "wps-rocks.txt" file |
| 15:07:11 | | Part oxygen77 ("Tcho") |
| 15:07:16 | Bagder | k3wl! ;-) |
| 15:07:18 | LinusN | my wps-rocks.txt file: |
| 15:07:30 | LinusN | favorites.rock:Add to favorites |
| 15:07:37 | LinusN | splitedit.rock:Split editor |
| 15:08:02 | LinusN | in fact, wps-rocks.txt is not to be edited, it is the default supplied by rockbox |
| 15:08:30 | LinusN | instead, you create "wps-rocks-user.txt", which has precedence |
| 15:08:49 | LinusN | works nicely |
| 15:09:17 | LinusN | but having plugins in both .rockbox/rocks and .rockbox/viewers is a nuisance |
| 15:09:26 | amiconn | LinusN: I'd still prefer the default to be compiled in (like the default wps) |
| 15:09:46 | LinusN | because...? |
| 15:11:54 | amiconn | Stability/ simplicity (you don't need to handle the case that the default file isn't found), no additional disk access, less disk clutter... |
| 15:13:11 | LinusN | if no file is found, no menu entries will be added |
| 15:13:29 | LinusN | you still need to look for the file, so there will still be disk access |
| 15:13:53 | LinusN | i don't care much about cluttering the .rockbox dir |
| 15:14:35 | Zagor | amiconn: i was also concerned with having two files, but the logic is persuasive. also I'd like to keep the core firmware oblivious as to which plugins are available. |
| 15:15:20 | Bagder | I think that's the main issue pro the file: the firmware doesn't know about that rocks there are |
| 15:15:21 | LinusN | and the code is cleaner, since the config is done in the same way, both for default and the user config |
| 15:15:32 | Bagder | s/that/what |
| 15:16:02 | elinenbe | LinusN: I think the wps context menu should be in the cvs :) |
| 15:16:07 | amiconn | If we want to localize/ voice the wpos context menu, the firmware has to know about the plugin names anyway |
| 15:16:12 | amiconn | *wps |
| 15:16:12 | LinusN | elinenbe: :-) |
| 15:16:32 | Bagder | amiconn: not really |
| 15:16:35 | LinusN | amiconn: not necessarily |
| 15:16:46 | LinusN | we supply a default english file |
| 15:17:10 | LinusN | the user creates the user file, in his favorite language |
| 15:17:27 | LinusN | it's at least a good start |
| 15:18:02 | LinusN | we could even add a way to create the menu from the plugin browser |
| 15:18:13 | LinusN | "add to wps menu" |
| 15:18:16 | amiconn | Yes.. but (1) that means the user has to actually do that, just to get a localized menu. (2) it does not solve the voice problem (thinking of our blind users) |
| 15:18:36 | LinusN | amiconn: how do you suggest we do it then? |
| 15:19:21 | Bagder | localisation of plugins is a white spot on our map |
| 15:19:32 | Zagor | we don't have a solution for neither localized plugins nor voiced plugins. this does not change that. |
| 15:19:35 | Bagder | adding stuff to the single firmware lang file is not the solution |
| 15:23:36 | amiconn | Bagder: I'm not talking about localization of the plugins, but about the localization of the context menu itself. If the default is compiled in, you can consider this core stuff. |
| 15:24:23 | Bagder | I don't want the firmware to have that knowledged built-in |
| 15:26:42 | LinusN | ok, so we would need one LANG entry per plugin, containing the plugin menu entry |
| 15:26:52 | LinusN | it's not all that bad |
| 15:27:09 | Zagor | yes it is. it breaks the independence design. |
| 15:27:25 | LinusN | since "open with" and "browse plugins" could be voiced |
| 15:28:04 | Bagder | I agree with Z |
| 15:28:09 | dwihno | I want quick menu sound on F3!!! :) :) :) |
| 15:28:17 | LinusN | yes, we created the viewer concept solely to be independent |
| 15:28:19 | amiconn | If that knowledge is unwanted in the core firmware, we have to come up with a solution for localizing and voicing the plugins |
| 15:28:32 | Bagder | yes we should |
| 15:28:52 | Bagder | we have 39 plugins for the recorder right now |
| 15:28:56 | LinusN | suggestion: |
| 15:29:05 | LinusN | every plugin has a LANG file |
| 15:29:06 | amiconn | This way, the language/ voice file *for the plugin* could contain the entries for this plugin to be used in the context menu |
| 15:29:22 | LinusN | a script concatenates all lang files into one |
| 15:29:55 | amiconn | Bagder: Probably not all plugins need locale and/ or voice support |
| 15:30:01 | LinusN | amiconn: now *that* means lots of disk accesses |
| 15:30:17 | Bagder | amiconn: true |
| 15:31:10 | LinusN | ok, so a script could create a single lang file from all the plugin lang files |
| 15:31:34 | LinusN | and we could also create a voice file from that |
| 15:32:01 | Zagor | then we break independent plugins |
| 15:32:05 | | Join Lefungus [0] (~none@bucket2.ncl.ac.uk) |
| 15:32:06 | LinusN | but how can the user add a single third-party plugin without recompiling everything? |
| 15:32:09 | Lefungus | lo |
| 15:32:21 | Zagor | Lefungus: hi |
| 15:32:33 | LinusN | TheMushroom |
| 15:33:20 | amiconn | LinusN: While this concept may actually work for localization, I see huge problems to make this work for voicing |
| 15:36:15 | * | [IDC]Dragon discovers a voice discussion |
| 15:36:37 | | Quit AciD (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 15:36:52 | [IDC]Dragon | a voice file per plugin woulds be desireable |
| 15:37:32 | LinusN | not for the context menu |
| 15:37:46 | LinusN | then it has to load one voice file for each menu entry |
| 15:38:02 | [IDC]Dragon | yes, this is the nasty overlap |
| 15:38:03 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: With this solution, the question is how to cope with the memory constraints |
| 15:39:01 | [IDC]Dragon | currently, I load the voice file to the mp3 buffer start, any leftover part is available for talkbox clips |
| 15:39:15 | Zagor | memory can be handled by only reading the specific sample (i.e. the first) from the file. speed is a bigger problem. |
| 15:39:20 | | Part Lefungus ("Leaving") |
| 15:39:45 | | Join Seedless [0] (~d4964582@labb.contactor.se) |
| 15:40:02 | [IDC]Dragon | speed is not critical if I can load/open only the first part |
| 15:40:33 | [IDC]Dragon | but the disk will be active a lot if you browse such entries, from file to file |
| 15:40:37 | Zagor | speed will be a problem when we want to load 30+ different samples at once |
| 15:40:51 | LinusN | opening one file per menu entry will still take considerable time |
| 15:40:56 | [IDC]Dragon | why at once? |
| 15:41:01 | Zagor | "open with..." |
| 15:41:09 | LinusN | wps context menu |
| 15:41:19 | | Join AciD [0] (~gni@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 15:41:25 | amiconn | Ah yes, I just thought about the same: The plugin voice files should consist of 2 parts, the first being the clip for the plugin (context) menu entry, to be loaded on its own (but from as many voice files as there are plugins) for the context menu display |
| 15:41:32 | [IDC]Dragon | yes, but perhaps you can live with the access on demand |
| 15:41:34 | LinusN | sure, we can load the clips when the cursor reaches them |
| 15:42:00 | LinusN | and then perhaps cache them |
| 15:42:01 | [IDC]Dragon | like the .talk thumbnails |
| 15:42:18 | * | LinusN should try that some day |
| 15:42:25 | [IDC]Dragon | ;-) |
| 15:42:45 | amiconn | The second part would then be the clips for use within the plugin. The same solution might in fact also work for localization (one .lng file per plugin) |
| 15:42:49 | LinusN | do i download some voice package from the MS home page? |
| 15:43:18 | Zagor | only people won't be happy about seeing the localized text only after moving the cursor to it... :) |
| 15:43:27 | LinusN | amiconn: not one .lng per plugin, one .lng per plugin *and language* |
| 15:43:43 | | Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 15:43:47 | Zagor | so we're still back to 30+ file reads for showing the menu |
| 15:43:56 | [IDC]Dragon | Zagor: good point |
| 15:44:17 | [IDC]Dragon | is our file performance that bad? |
| 15:44:28 | LinusN | opening a file is pretty costly |
| 15:44:54 | Zagor | everything is relative. I'm guessing it will take at least more than a second. |
| 15:45:00 | amiconn | LinusN: Yes of course. Only one per plugin will need to be read of course |
| 15:45:03 | [IDC]Dragon | worse than writing a sector 512 times? ;-) |
| 15:45:09 | LinusN | lol |
| 15:45:18 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: Blame Zagor ;-) |
| 15:45:47 | Zagor | obviously I've missed something? |
| 15:46:23 | LinusN | "save current playlist" is a lot faster :-) |
| 15:46:26 | amiconn | Zagor: See my last commit, fixing a bug that was introduced by you 20 months ago |
| 15:46:47 | LinusN | ...or is it...? |
| 15:47:32 | | Quit Seedless ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 15:47:47 | LinusN | wow, it is A LOT faster! |
| 15:48:30 | amiconn | I don't think that reading ~30 files will take that long. The biggest delay is the disk spinup, which hits only once (and even not at all on Ondio :) ) |
| 15:49:00 | * | [IDC]Dragon hasn't noticed .cfg saving taking considerable time, on HD models |
| 15:49:18 | LinusN | i think a disk spinup everytime you bring up a context menu will be annoying |
| 15:49:36 | Zagor | amiconn: aha, nice catch. I wonder what I was thinking... :-) |
| 15:50:20 | [IDC]Dragon | amiconn's flash must be worn out now |
| 15:50:29 | Zagor | hehe |
| 15:51:14 | amiconn | Zagor: Saving the config (~3000 bytes) took >20 seconds before (yes!) |
| 15:51:24 | Zagor | wow! |
| 15:51:47 | [IDC]Dragon | that's 1200 baud |
| 15:52:01 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: It was clearly noticeable even on my v1 recorder. Without the fix, config saving took 1..2 seconds. Now it's unnoticable |
| 15:52:09 | Zagor | i wonder how long it would have lived if you hadn't ported to ondio... |
| 15:52:45 | * | [IDC]Dragon hasn't saved configs very often |
| 15:53:28 | Zagor | I do it from time to time, but never noticed any slowness on hd players |
| 15:53:29 | LinusN | saving a 6000 file playlist is a pain with the older builds |
| 15:53:42 | Zagor | i believe you |
| 15:53:56 | LinusN | now it's at least bearable |
| 15:54:14 | LinusN | still qute slow, but that's probably the playlist access time |
| 15:54:34 | LinusN | plenty of seeking in the playlist file |
| 15:55:03 | Zagor | seeking? |
| 15:55:19 | LinusN | the playlist consists of file offsets |
| 15:55:30 | LinusN | we seek to the offset to get the file name |
| 15:55:55 | Zagor | right, that |
| 15:56:56 | LinusN | i have a suggestion regarding flashing |
| 15:57:34 | [IDC]Dragon | to ease it for newbies? |
| 15:57:37 | LinusN | how about changing the firmware_flash.rock plugin so it warns the user if the flash is already "formatted"? |
| 15:58:14 | [IDC]Dragon | yes, I saw your mentioning |
| 15:58:15 | LinusN | and perhaps even do it the "right way" if the user says OK |
| 15:58:43 | LinusN | it seems like many users just run firmware_flash.rock when they want to upgrade the flash |
| 15:58:57 | LinusN | and i don't blame them |
| 15:59:35 | [IDC]Dragon | can you think of a notification which clearly explains it and fits the screen? |
| 16:00 |
| 16:00:03 | [IDC]Dragon | do it the "right way"? |
| 16:00:05 | LinusN | "Rockbox is already in flash. Want to update?" |
| 16:00:21 | amiconn | LinusN: Imho it's a bad idea to put (rom|rock)box.ucl into the .rockbox dir. This way it's only visible if you switch to "view all". I always put it in the root with my own builds |
| 16:00:25 | LinusN | then it loads .rockbox/rockbox.ucl and flashes it |
| 16:00:56 | LinusN | i think it's a very good idea to hide it from accidental playing |
| 16:01:02 | | Join AciD [0] (~gni@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:01:07 | amiconn | Nice idea... however, this requires an additional api function, to start one plugin from another |
| 16:01:13 | [IDC]Dragon | that would require to merge the 2 plugins, or one starting the other |
| 16:01:20 | LinusN | yes |
| 16:01:33 | LinusN | put the code in the plugin library |
| 16:01:58 | | Join markun [0] (~markun@bastards.student.utwente.nl) |
| 16:02:13 | LinusN | we can have one single plugin |
| 16:02:22 | | Quit markun (Client Quit) |
| 16:02:49 | amiconn | LinusN: Iiuc it is not possible to start one plugin from another directly, this has to be done via the core. The plugin obviously can't overwrite itself, and still run... |
| 16:02:50 | [IDC]Dragon | not that easy, a plugin can't call another like a subroutine, we have to return first |
| 16:02:58 | LinusN | if no argument is passed, it works like firmware_flash.rock works today, if a filename is passed, it flashes that one instead |
| 16:03:15 | [IDC]Dragon | you mean, merging them? |
| 16:03:18 | LinusN | yes |
| 16:03:48 | LinusN | amiconn: it isn't the plugin itself that should be in the library, only the code that does the work |
| 16:04:33 | [IDC]Dragon | they are similar anyway, I created rockbox_flash by branching from firmware_flash |
| 16:04:50 | LinusN | i think it would help a lot of the confusion |
| 16:05:05 | amiconn | That code can't be located in the plugin library, because these functions get linked to the plugin. It has to be done in the core |
| 16:05:39 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 16:05:45 | LinusN | amiconn: what is it that's so special about the flash routines that prevents us from having them in the library? |
| 16:05:54 | [IDC]Dragon | if the flash plugins are merged, we don't talk about plugin concatenation any more, do we? |
| 16:06:08 | LinusN | of course not |
| 16:06:27 | amiconn | LinusN: Ah, you mean the flash routines. I mean the code that allows starting one plugin from another... |
| 16:06:31 | LinusN | ahaaa |
| 16:06:43 | * | [IDC]Dragon was mislead, too |
| 16:07:16 | [IDC]Dragon | I feel uncomfortable about sharing the flash code |
| 16:07:21 | LinusN | so, to do the initial flash, play the rock |
| 16:07:35 | [IDC]Dragon | that dangerous stuff should be buried deep |
| 16:07:42 | LinusN | to update, play it again, or play the .ucl file |
| 16:08:02 | LinusN | if the plugins are merged, there is no need to have the code in the lib |
| 16:10:41 | LinusN | gotta go, cu guys |
| 16:10:45 | | Part LinusN |
| 16:13:02 | | Join markun [0] (~markun@bastards.student.utwente.nl) |
| 16:13:55 | markun | I think I found a small bug in /apps/plugins/sort.c |
| 16:14:16 | markun | Who should I report it to? |
| 16:16:13 | amiconn | markun: Most suitable place is usually the bug tracker at sourceforge |
| 16:16:36 | | Join pfavr [0] (~Peter_Fav@213.237.46.232.adsl.ron.worldonline.dk) |
| 16:17:15 | markun | It's a very small bug introduced in the last commit. sort_buffer(); is now called two times. |
| 16:17:40 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: For starting another plugin from the running one, imho the easiest solution is some kind of "register" function. First register the plugin that should be started afterwards, then return. The core will start the second plugin now |
| 16:17:53 | [IDC]Dragon | markun: to the bug tracker |
| 16:20:14 | Zagor | markun: fixed it |
| 16:21:07 | markun | zagor: ok |
| 16:22:08 | Zagor | thanks for reporting |
| 16:24:27 | | Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 16:25:22 | markun | no problem |
| 16:25:23 | | Quit markun ("Leaving") |
| 16:30:18 | | Join methangas [0] (methangas@0x50a461d2.virnxx10.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) |
| 16:31:01 | | Join AciD [0] (~gni@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:44:31 | | Part Zagor |
| 17:00 |
| 17:06:45 | | Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 17:13:04 | | Join mjflinkman [0] (~5139f709@labb.contactor.se) |
| 17:13:58 | mjflinkman | hi folks |
| 17:14:04 | Bagder | hi |
| 17:15:29 | mjflinkman | though I think it may be a usual question, does somebody know if there will be a rockbox vesion for av120 ?? |
| 17:15:54 | dwihno | Don't think so |
| 17:15:58 | dwihno | have you checked avos? |
| 17:16:01 | mjflinkman | :'( |
| 17:16:02 | dwihno | avos.sourceforge.net |
| 17:16:05 | Bagder | it is a common question, yes |
| 17:16:12 | Bagder | but no rockbox |
| 17:16:25 | dwihno | av120 is avos, right? |
| 17:16:40 | Bagder | or linav |
| 17:16:44 | Bagder | whatever the differences are |
| 17:16:52 | Bagder | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/NonArchos#The_Multimedia_series |
| 17:17:46 | mjflinkman | well, I didn't know avos.sourceforge.net |
| 17:17:51 | mjflinkman | thankx |
| 17:18:02 | Bagder | there's linav.sf.net too |
| 17:19:37 | * | Bagder leaves |
| 17:19:49 | mjflinkman | thx U so much guys !!!! |
| 17:21:57 | | Join mecraw_ [0] (~lmarlow@69.2.235.2) |
| 17:24:46 | | Join AciD [0] (~gni@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:34:50 | | Quit mjflinkman ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 17:40:05 | | Join lImbus [0] (~manuel@kernel.cycos.net) |
| 17:40:18 | lImbus | Hi all |
| 17:40:38 | lImbus | [IDC]Dragon: I finally got my Ondio, it was waiting at the customs |
| 17:41:18 | lImbus | I just have one problem, and didn't find anything yet. |
| 17:41:50 | lImbus | It says "No partition table. Insert USB cable and fix it." But WinXP seems not able to fix it. |
| 17:43:10 | [IDC]Dragon | lImbus: Rockbox sais this? |
| 17:44:16 | lImbus | mhmm. yes, I assume it's rockbox, because if I insert the usb. a very familier usb-screen shows up |
| 17:44:44 | [IDC]Dragon | is it a used Ondio, or who installed Rockbox? |
| 17:46:01 | amiconn | lImbus: What rockbox version? Internal flash or MMC card? |
| 17:47:12 | | Join lImbus_ [0] (~manuel@kernel.cycos.net) |
| 17:47:20 | lImbus_ | sorry, I hat that channel |
| 17:47:28 | lImbus_ | err, http-tunnel, of course |
| 17:47:33 | * | lImbus_ is tired |
| 17:48:01 | amiconn | [17:45:48] <amiconn> lImbus: What rockbox version? Internal flash or MMC card? |
| 17:48:31 | | Quit lImbus_ (Remote closed the connection) |
| 17:48:50 | [IDC]Dragon | difficult conversation... |
| 17:49:00 | | Join lImbus_ [0] (~manuel@kernel.cycos.net) |
| 17:49:08 | lImbus_ | now, when I connect to the pc, it doesn't show up the drive anymore |
| 17:49:15 | lImbus_ | amiconn: it's internal |
| 17:49:34 | [IDC]Dragon | but the Archos firmware did work? |
| 17:50:05 | [IDC]Dragon | obviously, since you somehow installed Rockbox on it |
| 17:50:27 | lImbus_ | yes. it did. but I did not feel comfortable... :-) |
| 17:50:41 | lImbus_ | it's a used ondio, there was nothing on it. I connected it to the computer, unpacked the daily build zip file. |
| 17:51:16 | [IDC]Dragon | you can connect the USB before powering up |
| 17:51:39 | [IDC]Dragon | that should bring you into the USB mode of the Archos firmware |
| 17:52:28 | lImbus_ | ok, that works |
| 17:52:33 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: Maybe this is actually a model with a different mask, possibly requiring those different clock gate polarities... |
| 17:52:53 | [IDC]Dragon | good idea, perhaps |
| 17:52:54 | lImbus_ | is see the /other/ usb-screen. |
| 17:53:10 | lImbus_ | which tool now should be able to write such a correct partition table ? |
| 17:53:32 | [IDC]Dragon | lImbus: we'd need to prepare you a special rockbox version |
| 17:53:34 | lImbus_ | xp sais: removeable drive, fat partition, 122mb, active |
| 17:53:51 | lImbus_ | yay, I'm a special case !!! |
| 17:54:07 | [IDC]Dragon | you may have an Ondio for which Rockbox doesn't work yet |
| 17:54:23 | amiconn | lImbus: Most likely the partitioning is correct, but rockbox may need some adjustments for your unit |
| 17:54:24 | [IDC]Dragon | well, the flash I/O part |
| 17:54:41 | [IDC]Dragon | we need to know the mask value |
| 17:55:03 | amiconn | This actually gets interesting... |
| 17:55:11 | [IDC]Dragon | which rockbox doesn't tell us the way it is now |
| 17:55:42 | [IDC]Dragon | in the early days, when we had no disk I/O, the main menu was hard coded into the startup |
| 17:55:59 | amiconn | lImbus: What kind of Ondio is it? |
| 17:55:59 | [IDC]Dragon | so you can walk into the debug menu |
| 17:56:15 | [IDC]Dragon | do you feel like opening it up? |
| 17:56:26 | lImbus_ | its a fm 128 recorder |
| 17:56:58 | lImbus_ | yes, I'm quite handy with a screwdriver, I changed and already resoldered my recorder v1 |
| 17:57:41 | [IDC]Dragon | if you wantto peek inside, compare with the photos on the wiki page |
| 17:57:45 | lImbus_ | if you tell me a date, I can get a cvs-version of that hardcoded menu, and deliver what you need |
| 17:58:03 | lImbus_ | I'll do scans as soon as I see differences |
| 17:58:11 | [IDC]Dragon | good idea |
| 17:58:53 | lImbus_ | so, did I understand correctly that simply reformatting in xp with FAT should be ok ? |
| 17:59:13 | lImbus_ | I'll try that once more so I am sure it's another thing |
| 17:59:32 | [IDC]Dragon | don't reformat it now |
| 17:59:50 | lImbus_ | ok |
| 18:00 |
| 18:00:03 | [IDC]Dragon | if we can't mount, that would be interesting, too |
| 18:00:55 | lImbus_ | so has anybody such a debug-version with hardcoded menu laying around somewhere, or the date when they were still existing ? |
| 18:01:26 | [IDC]Dragon | before sept. 29 might do the trick |
| 18:02:13 | [IDC]Dragon | and after Sept. 16th |
| 18:02:50 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: Please don't simply use an old cvs version, use the menu hack with current cvs |
| 18:03:26 | lImbus_ | oh, the menu hack is there ? |
| 18:03:41 | [IDC]Dragon | why no old version? should be ok to just peek the mask |
| 18:03:56 | lImbus_ | you can tell me which define I have to set to get it, i'll compile the current cvs with that |
| 18:04:14 | [IDC]Dragon | it's no define, but a piece of code |
| 18:04:50 | lImbus_ | you can send it by mail, if it's the simpler solution. |
| 18:05:02 | [IDC]Dragon | look here: http://www.rockbox.org/viewcvs.cgi/apps/main.c?r1=1.91&r2=1.92 |
| 18:05:43 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 18:06:04 | [IDC]Dragon | bacically, call main_muenu() before disk_init() |
| 18:06:30 | [IDC]Dragon | basically, call main_menu() before disk_init() |
| 18:06:37 | [IDC]Dragon | better now |
| 18:06:45 | amiconn | That looked funny :) |
| 18:07:41 | lImbus_ | the build environment is on the other machine, just sitting at |
| 18:07:51 | amiconn | lImbus: Do you have an MMC card? (May prove very useful for some experiments to get flash access working) |
| 18:08:07 | lImbus_ | not yet, I want to buy one in the future |
| 18:09:13 | lImbus_ | how near that future is depends on if I am able to get asleep with 128 MB of music. if it#s not enough, I'll buy a bigger card next week |
| 18:10:25 | [IDC]Dragon | once again about the inside: check for that 74AC08 gate, front side, close to the MMC "dent" |
| 18:10:26 | * | amiconn is building a test build with the hack in |
| 18:11:04 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: I expect a different chip there (NAND or NOR) |
| 18:11:07 | * | [IDC]Dragon thought lImbus was up to it, sorry |
| 18:11:33 | [IDC]Dragon | amiconn: yes, me too |
| 18:11:39 | lImbus_ | i am compiling |
| 18:11:52 | lImbus_ | i've go no such small screwdrivers here at work |
| 18:12:02 | amiconn | lImbus_: Ah ok. I thought you have no dev environment at hand where you are at |
| 18:12:15 | amiconn | ..where you are atm |
| 18:12:25 | lImbus_ | I got 2 machines, but no tools (screwdrievrs and so on) |
| 18:12:32 | lImbus_ | Im at my workplace next to aachen |
| 18:12:54 | lImbus_ | see my hostname :-) |
| 18:13:51 | [IDC]Dragon | cycos.net? |
| 18:14:18 | lImbus_ | thats the only machine in the real internet i've got access from inside of the company network |
| 18:14:31 | lImbus_ | companys homepage is www.cycos.com |
| 18:15:26 | * | lImbus_ is copying files to ondio |
| 18:15:51 | lImbus_ | works |
| 18:16:01 | * | [IDC]Dragon can't stand the tension |
| 18:16:09 | lImbus_ | Mask: 0x0308 |
| 18:16:16 | [IDC]Dragon | yae |
| 18:16:27 | lImbus_ | need something else ? |
| 18:16:28 | [IDC]Dragon | that's new |
| 18:16:41 | [IDC]Dragon | rom version? |
| 18:16:53 | * | lImbus_ feels pround. I will finally take part of development :-) |
| 18:17:01 | lImbus_ | 1.04 is rom version |
| 18:17:36 | [IDC]Dragon | do you have backlight, perhaps? |
| 18:18:22 | lImbus_ | mhmm. it did not show up in archos-firmware :-/ |
| 18:18:30 | lImbus_ | would be cool, of course, but does not look like |
| 18:18:43 | [IDC]Dragon | well, sorry, just asking |
| 18:18:44 | | Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 18:18:46 | lImbus_ | I will scan this evening or tomorrow morning if too late tonight |
| 18:19:12 | lImbus_ | [IDC]Dragon: don't worry. |
| 18:19:53 | [IDC]Dragon | amiconn: it's the bit you've been suspecting |
| 18:20:08 | lImbus_ | the radio debug menu says: detected: yes, result: 00140885 |
| 18:20:09 | | Join AciD [0] (~gni@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:20:22 | [IDC]Dragon | lImbus: yes, now it's time for the screwdriver part |
| 18:20:45 | amiconn | lImbus: You can try if the radio plays (or does that require disk access? Jörg?) |
| 18:20:56 | [IDC]Dragon | lImbus: samsung tuner, as the mask tells |
| 18:21:11 | [IDC]Dragon | the radia screen wantd to load the presets |
| 18:21:27 | [IDC]Dragon | ...radio wants... |
| 18:21:42 | lImbus_ | fm-radio menu tries to create the /recordings-directory here |
| 18:21:49 | [IDC]Dragon | don't know if you can go across that |
| 18:22:10 | amiconn | How come I suspected that there are Ondios in the wild with mask bit 2 == 0 :-( |
| 18:22:12 | lImbus_ | no, it's stuck from that point he tells me. |
| 18:22:52 | [IDC]Dragon | amiconn: you did suspect, right? |
| 18:23:11 | amiconn | lImbus: That logic chip would in fact be very interesting... |
| 18:23:32 | lImbus_ | I'm already looking if I can quit work earlier :-) |
| 18:23:44 | lImbus_ | but THAT does not look like... :-/ |
| 18:24:02 | [IDC]Dragon | better look for a screwdriver ;-) |
| 18:24:27 | [IDC]Dragon | but we're in no hurry |
| 18:24:39 | lImbus_ | I am :-) |
| 18:24:52 | [IDC]Dragon | I know that feeling |
| 18:24:55 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: Yes I did. Now I have to find out which parts need extensions. Might be hard without the unit actually in front of me :( |
| 18:25:17 | lImbus_ | screwdriver: mhmm. that's an option indeed. it's a challenge, as we are a pure software development company to find such a small one. |
| 18:25:22 | | Quit einhirn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 18:25:27 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: Btw, did the CPU board arrive yet? |
| 18:25:45 | lImbus_ | amiconn: if my one stays useless otherwise, I have to problem at all to send you my unit... |
| 18:25:53 | [IDC]Dragon | I checked this morning before I left, no mail then |
| 18:26:10 | amiconn | Maybe it's there when you return... |
| 18:26:49 | [IDC]Dragon | probably Mr. Mailman wasn't around by that time, we rarely have no mail |
| 18:27:19 | * | [IDC]Dragon should go home, too |
| 18:27:29 | * | amiconn too |
| 18:28:19 | [IDC]Dragon | you do have saved a ROM dump, right? |
| 18:28:42 | amiconn | Yup. It's the latest rom (5.08) |
| 18:28:50 | | Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 18:29:13 | * | lImbus_ has found a screwdriver that fits |
| 18:29:16 | [IDC]Dragon | and version, you need to keep that part |
| 18:29:47 | | Join AciD [0] (~gni@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:29:51 | amiconn | The version info is part of the ROM image, right? |
| 18:30:36 | [IDC]Dragon | yes, next to the mask value, which the player doesn't have |
| 18:30:51 | amiconn | So 'd say I'm safe |
| 18:31:00 | amiconn | (away now) |
| 18:31:30 | [IDC]Dragon | maybe I can pre-flash it |
| 18:31:44 | [IDC]Dragon | so please send me that image |
| 18:32:06 | [IDC]Dragon | (depends on from where I take the flash) |
| 18:35:07 | lImbus_ | [IDC]Dragon: The thing I should look for is the Motorola-Chip on your photo from the wiki ? |
| 18:36:03 | [IDC]Dragon | yes |
| 18:36:04 | lImbus_ | (I can't find the string you mentioned "74AC08" on the picture, that is) |
| 18:36:20 | [IDC]Dragon | it just says AC 08 |
| 18:36:29 | lImbus_ | it's definitely something else. |
| 18:36:36 | [IDC]Dragon | what is it? |
| 18:36:54 | lImbus_ | it says ac32 in the second line, first line will take awhile to decode... |
| 18:37:04 | [IDC]Dragon | and what PCB version? |
| 18:37:13 | [IDC]Dragon | AC32 is sufficient |
| 18:37:20 | lImbus_ | mhmm. v2b.17 |
| 18:37:59 | [IDC]Dragon | this is a quad OR gate instead of our quad AND |
| 18:39:12 | [IDC]Dragon | do the traces on the PCB look similar? |
| 18:39:55 | lImbus_ | no, small changes |
| 18:41:04 | [IDC]Dragon | hmm, your scan will be interesting |
| 18:41:36 | [IDC]Dragon | traces around the AC32, or in general? |
| 18:42:57 | lImbus_ | general looks similar, but the ones around this gate chip |
| 18:44:05 | [IDC]Dragon | knowing that an OR is used instead of AND, amiconn may cook something for you |
| 18:44:40 | lImbus_ | there is even a wire via |
| 18:44:46 | [IDC]Dragon | I'm leaving here, maybe see you later |
| 18:44:59 | lImbus_ | ok, thanks so far. |
| 18:45:09 | | Quit [IDC]Dragon ("CGI:IRC") |
| 18:46:11 | lImbus_ | the radio-pcb is version 2.2 |
| 18:46:40 | lImbus_ | looks less sophisticated :-) |
| 18:56:01 | | Join Stryke` [0] (~Chairman8@resnet-241-86.resnet.UMBC.EDU) |
| 19:00 |
| 19:16:09 | | Quit pfavr ("ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.3/20041007]") |
| 19:16:40 | | Join Bager [0] (~d5f0ca38@193.15.23.131) |
| 19:16:56 | | Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (~idc-drago@pD9FF82B9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:17:39 | [IDC]Dragon | amiconn: your board is here now |
| 19:22:43 | amiconn | lImbus: Are you there? |
| 19:23:33 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: I already thought it over (while driving home) and actually expected either an OR or a NOR (from the SCK1 idle level required while on USB) |
| 19:25:05 | [IDC]Dragon | don't crash into treeswhile thinking about logic gates |
| 19:26:10 | amiconn | Hehe, of course. Really bad weather today in Berlin, raining all day long |
| 19:26:28 | amiconn | (board location) Nice to know that it arrived :) |
| 19:34:10 | [IDC]Dragon | heh, my little programming station works |
| 19:35:00 | amiconn | ? |
| 19:35:19 | [IDC]Dragon | (I was expecting this question mark) |
| 19:35:33 | amiconn | :) |
| 19:36:06 | [IDC]Dragon | email me what you'd like to have in your flash |
| 19:36:49 | [IDC]Dragon | I have a wrecked recorder board with a flashable chip, which I can uart_boot |
| 19:37:25 | amiconn | I think the first thing to be in the flash should be the original image (to check if it still works) |
| 19:37:25 | [IDC]Dragon | I once made a plug-on adapter for uart_boot without soldering |
| 19:38:02 | [IDC]Dragon | please send my your dump |
| 19:38:08 | [IDC]Dragon | s/my/me |
| 19:39:08 | amiconn | I just checked, it's actually rom 5.06 |
| 19:40:04 | [IDC]Dragon | I have such a dump, but would prefer your genue dump |
| 19:40:36 | [IDC]Dragon | or do you prefer an empty 512 KB chip? |
| 19:41:10 | amiconn | I think 512 KB is overkill for the player - plenty of room with 256 KB even for rombox :) |
| 19:41:56 | [IDC]Dragon | I can offer 256 KB programmed or 512 kB blank |
| 19:42:11 | [IDC]Dragon | if programmed, I need your file |
| 19:42:50 | [IDC]Dragon | my recorder has 512 KB, but I never used the second half |
| 19:44:19 | amiconn | Mail sent. |
| 19:44:56 | amiconn | 512 KB could be useful for FM recorder and Ondio FM, enabling rombox |
| 19:45:22 | [IDC]Dragon | yes, but I'm not gonna mod it |
| 19:45:54 | amiconn | Didn't you think about adding backlight? |
| 19:46:19 | | Join LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se) |
| 19:47:10 | [IDC]Dragon | got the file, it is indeed different from the 5.06 I had |
| 19:47:45 | amiconn | Really? That's strange... |
| 19:48:13 | LinusN | what a funny bug ... sorted the buffer twice :-) |
| 19:48:46 | [IDC]Dragon | ask LinusN about the backlight ;-) |
| 19:49:28 | LinusN | [IDC]Dragon: oooops, i forgot! |
| 19:49:49 | [IDC]Dragon | i didn't want to be pushy in any way |
| 19:51:10 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: Did you check what is different in the 2 rom files? |
| 19:51:55 | [IDC]Dragon | both the version and the content |
| 19:52:37 | amiconn | Version byte is offset 0xFE iirc. My ROM contains 0x01FA there, equal to 506 |
| 19:53:32 | amiconn | LinusN: I'm just trying out your mpeg.c fix. Good news: no more NULL pointer accesses :) |
| 19:54:03 | [IDC]Dragon | the one I had contained 0x01F7, perhaps I mis-labeled it |
| 19:54:24 | amiconn | That's 5.03 |
| 19:54:39 | [IDC]Dragon | ok, your future chip is flashed and verified |
| 19:54:46 | amiconn | Nice :-) |
| 19:55:22 | lImbus_ | amiconn: I am still there. |
| 19:55:58 | [IDC]Dragon | amiconn: will swap and mail it tomorrow then |
| 19:56:28 | amiconn | lImbus: Could you please check something? With the menu-hacked version, go to info->debug->view IO ports and tell me the value of AN0 |
| 19:58:21 | amiconn | lImbus: If you are up to doing even a bit more, please move the menu hack up a few lines (just before the "rc = ata_init()" line), compile again, start that version, and then tell me the value of PADR as well |
| 19:58:56 | * | [IDC]Dragon is away now |
| 19:59:00 | lImbus_ | AN0: 3FF |
| 19:59:03 | amiconn | (peeking what the archos fw does with the select line) |
| 19:59:41 | * | lImbus_ is recompiling |
| 20:00 |
| 20:00:03 | amiconn | lImbus: Please *cold start* with that version |
| 20:00:32 | * | amiconn is digging up the old disassemblies |
| 20:01:00 | lImbus_ | cold start is switch of and on. or do I need to drop the batterie s? |
| 20:01:18 | amiconn | No, switch off then on is sufficient |
| 20:02:16 | lImbus_ | PADR: E7D7 |
| 20:02:21 | lImbus_ | no, wait |
| 20:02:26 | lImbus_ | PADR: E7DF |
| 20:02:38 | lImbus_ | it really lacks a backlight :-) |
| 20:04:09 | amiconn | Okay, so I got the second meaning of mask bit 2 right :) see http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/ArchosOndio#HW_mask_bits_and_their_meanings PA12 is low for internal on your box |
| 20:04:47 | lImbus_ | ok, so he's looking for an external mcc. |
| 20:04:48 | amiconn | PBDR value? (sorry didn't think of it earlier) |
| 20:04:51 | lImbus_ | ? |
| 20:05:03 | lImbus_ | PBDR: BCFF |
| 20:05:31 | amiconn | No, the right column ("value if unset") says low for internal, high for external |
| 20:05:45 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 20:07:55 | lImbus_ | I don't get it, but don't insist :-) |
| 20:08:55 | | Join quelsaruk [0] (~kvirc@80.103.139.104) |
| 20:09:03 | quelsaruk | good evening |
| 20:09:18 | amiconn | PA12 is low on your box after boot, which is correct for accessing the internal flash on your box (mask bit 2 == 0, unset) |
| 20:09:30 | amiconn | (that was directed at lImbus) |
| 20:09:35 | amiconn | quelsaruk: good evening |
| 20:09:47 | lImbus_ | hi |
| 20:10:13 | lImbus_ | amiconn: ok, so my problem has nothing to do with the fact the mmc is internal or external. |
| 20:11:06 | amiconn | No, your box has a different hardware mask (indicating different hardware, in that case the AC32 vs. AC08 chip), needing different logic levels to do the same operations |
| 20:11:43 | lImbus_ | which kind of logics is this about ? general, or more like communication between components/chips ? |
| 20:12:40 | amiconn | It's about logic levels necessary to let the gate logic (which clock signal goes where when) work correctly. The different chip requires different levels |
| 20:13:06 | amiconn | Do you want to do a crude test? |
| 20:13:49 | lImbus_ | why not ? (as long as it doesn't has to do with a hammer ...) |
| 20:14:07 | lImbus_ | so the logics is kind of time managment on the pcb ? |
| 20:14:24 | lImbus_ | who is allowed to talk to who when ? |
| 20:15:16 | amiconn | Open firmware/drivers/ata_mmc.c, and swap lines 145 and 147 (so the if and else contents get swapped). These have "nice" CHECKME comments behind them. |
| 20:16:03 | amiconn | If you compile this, rockbox should be able to access the mmc flash chip. Beware: this does not yet enable USB access |
| 20:16:25 | lImbus_ | compiling... |
| 20:19:00 | lImbus_ | trying to leave the dbg-hacked menu with "left" says "Save Failed, no partitions" |
| 20:19:20 | lImbus_ | correct: "Save Failed, no partition?" |
| 20:19:44 | amiconn | Hmm, that's probably because it tries that before the ata and disk inits. Do you get the root dir afterwards? |
| 20:19:58 | lImbus_ | no |
| 20:20:02 | amiconn | :( |
| 20:20:06 | lImbus_ | should I try without hacked menu ? |
| 20:20:38 | amiconn | You could do that, but I doubt that it will work :-/ |
| 20:21:11 | lImbus_ | isn't there some initialisation done AFTER the place I inserted the menu-hack ? |
| 20:21:23 | lImbus_ | looks like (rc = ata_init()) |
| 20:21:42 | amiconn | Yes... but that is done anyway after you leave the hacked menu (and it complained) |
| 20:21:59 | | Join einhirn [0] (~Miranda@carlsberg.heim2.tu-clausthal.de) |
| 20:22:31 | lImbus_ | mhmm. while(1) main_menu(); |
| 20:22:40 | lImbus_ | I'm not really getting to ata_init() |
| 20:22:45 | amiconn | Ah, right |
| 20:22:53 | | Quit einhirn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 20:23:39 | lImbus_ | uh. ld complains about the region FLASH beeing full ?!? |
| 20:24:15 | amiconn | Yes, ignore that. It tries to build rombox, which fails for Ondio FM (too little space) |
| 20:24:46 | lImbus_ | but... it didn't do before ? I'll continue |
| 20:25:28 | amiconn | Sometimes it does, sometimes not. I also don't understand why that is... |
| 20:25:38 | lImbus_ | YOU DA MEEEN ! |
| 20:25:43 | amiconn | ?? |
| 20:25:48 | lImbus_ | it works |
| 20:25:51 | amiconn | :) |
| 20:26:09 | amiconn | So I have to incorporate a runtime decision, and it should work for everyone :) |
| 20:26:10 | lImbus_ | sweet |
| 20:26:29 | amiconn | I expect that USB access will not yet work |
| 20:26:54 | amiconn | (again, different logic level necessary) |
| 20:26:59 | lImbus_ | just trying :-) |
| 20:27:33 | lImbus_ | you're right. it's not yet working o usb |
| 20:29:08 | | Join einhirn [0] (~Miranda@carlsberg.heim2.tu-clausthal.de) |
| 20:29:50 | | Join unibrain [0] (~Miranda@carlsberg.heim2.tu-clausthal.de) |
| 20:29:51 | | Quit einhirn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 20:30:45 | amiconn | lImbus: Now that I know what's going on, fixing USB shouldn't be that hard. If you can find an MMC (any capacity will do) you could insert it and tell me the AN0 value while inserted (just to make sure) |
| 20:32:32 | | Quit gromit` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 20:33:00 | lImbus_ | will see. |
| 20:33:07 | lImbus_ | maybe a coworker has one |
| 20:34:35 | lImbus_ | no, noone has. |
| 20:34:58 | lImbus_ | a mate of mine has one, I'll meet friday, so I can give you confirmation then |
| 20:35:56 | lImbus_ | amiconn: is flashing at this point a good idea? just for informatio |
| 20:35:59 | lImbus_ | +n |
| 20:36:45 | lImbus_ | oh, no, of course. else I could not get back to my archos-usb-working-version. BTW: what is the f1-key here :-) |
| 20:37:08 | amiconn | The loader uses LEFT for F1, UP for F2 and RIGHT for F3 |
| 20:37:21 | lImbus_ | looks handy |
| 20:37:29 | amiconn | And you could get back into archos: just use LEFT+ ON |
| 20:38:05 | lImbus_ | ah, yes |
| 20:38:08 | amiconn | (I still wouldn't do it at this point though) |
| 20:38:36 | lImbus_ | yes, I dare too |
| 20:38:57 | amiconn | All Ondios should be flashable, as there are flash updates available from Archos |
| 20:41:07 | lImbus_ | will they be as fast as the jukebox recorders ? |
| 20:41:22 | lImbus_ | my ondio takes several seconds (rather pathetic) |
| 20:42:03 | amiconn | Booting is even faster than with the recorders (no disk spinup) :) |
| 20:42:41 | amiconn | My Ondio SP is of course flashed. Boots within 2 seconds or so :) |
| 20:42:53 | | Quit AciD (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 20:43:23 | | Join AciD [0] (~gni@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:45:22 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: Do your Ondio flash images also contain archos only now? |
| 20:46:00 | [IDC]Dragon | amiconn: yes |
| 20:46:08 | * | [IDC]Dragon is still away |
| 21:00 |
| 21:15:10 | amiconn | lImbus: Please fetch the latest cvs and try if USB access works :) |
| 21:16:21 | | Join Timmah [0] (tim@81.168.40.58) |
| 21:16:52 | amiconn | lImbus: In order to avoid a conflict with ata_mmc.c, delete your modified version beforehand |
| 21:18:15 | | Quit mecraw_ (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 21:18:22 | | Join mecraw_ [0] (~lmarlow@69.2.235.2) |
| 21:18:40 | lImbus_ | amiconn: ongoing |
| 21:22:06 | * | lImbus_ is trying to access the haxx-cvs from the companies network. seems to fail... |
| 21:25:11 | amiconn | http://amiconn.dyndns.org/ondio-fixes.zip usb.c goes into "firmware", ata_mmc.c goes into "firmware/drivers" and hwcompat.h goes into "firmware/export" |
| 21:26:34 | lImbus_ | thanks. I was about to copy and paste it from the cvs-view-cgi-script... |
| 21:32:25 | lImbus_ | amiconn: confirmation: usb is working |
| 21:32:55 | amiconn | Nice :) Does it still work if you repeatedly connect and disconnect it |
| 21:32:59 | amiconn | ? |
| 21:33:43 | lImbus_ | [IDC]Dragon: the radio is working as well |
| 21:34:00 | lImbus_ | lol. the radio has no usb-support :-) |
| 21:34:02 | Timmah | for which firmware? |
| 21:34:54 | lImbus_ | amiconn: I think inserting usb froze my device. the radio still plays, but no keypressed anymore. |
| 21:35:13 | lImbus_ | Timmah: we are trying out a new serie of ondio with modified hardware |
| 21:35:22 | Timmah | ah |
| 21:35:24 | Timmah | good luck :) |
| 21:35:48 | amiconn | lImbus: Hmm. Iirc the radio screen should react to usb (as long as you are not recording from the radio) |
| 21:36:23 | amiconn | You can always switch off a hung Ondio by holding the Off button for >10 seconds |
| 21:37:00 | lImbus_ | atm, there is no battery cover :-) Im not yet sure, but a second usb-insertion seems not to work. |
| 21:37:39 | lImbus_ | now in plain vanilla menu, the usb-screen was shown, but winxp did'nt like it. testing a second time, maybe it was xp this time |
| 21:37:55 | amiconn | lImbus: It's actually an older series of Ondio (compare the main PCB version numbers) |
| 21:38:57 | amiconn | (usb detection in WinXP) This may sometimes take a while for Ondio, I don't know why |
| 21:39:46 | lImbus_ | i'll send you (on the list) pictures and scans I'll do. you will see the radio pcb just LOOKS old :-) |
| 21:41:17 | amiconn | That's another indication - your Ondio has the older Samsung radio chip (already know from the jukebox FM recorders). The wiki shows a model with the newer Philips chip |
| 21:41:24 | lImbus_ | re-insertion just takes a while |
| 21:41:35 | lImbus_ | but works |
| 21:42:09 | lImbus_ | geez, I'm not yet familiar with the keypad :-) |
| 21:42:15 | amiconn | And I guess the access from within rockbox still works after leaving usb mode? |
| 21:42:46 | lImbus_ | access to the memory ? |
| 21:42:57 | lImbus_ | i did not test that explicitly |
| 21:42:57 | | Join scott666_ [0] (~scott666@c-24-245-58-48.mn.client2.attbi.com) |
| 21:43:02 | amiconn | Yes, showing the root dir |
| 21:44:31 | | Quit lImbus (Ping timeout: 14400 seconds) |
| 21:44:40 | lImbus_ | yes, it works |
| 21:48:07 | lImbus_ | amiconn: I don't know anymore how to get to the menu when I am in the browser ?!? I managed that minute ago, but now ?!? |
| 21:48:29 | amiconn | Just hold the menu (mode) button a bit longer. |
| 21:48:44 | lImbus_ | argl. I tried doubleclick |
| 21:48:48 | * | lImbus_ feels dumb |
| 21:51:07 | amiconn | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/ButtonAssignments |
| 21:55:01 | | Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 21:57:08 | lImbus_ | usb inserting in radio works. it even doesn't stop the radio. quitting usb mode then stops the radio :-) |
| 21:57:43 | amiconn | Funny. I doubt that this is intended... |
| 21:58:36 | LinusN | amiconn: i deliberately left the radio on in usb mode, for fun |
| 21:58:48 | LinusN | but i forgot to change it back |
| 21:59:00 | LinusN | back when i wrote the first radio code ages ago |
| 21:59:11 | lImbus_ | i assume somebody thought "why stopping the radio, it works", then forgot that leaving usb make sthat kind of warm boot |
| 21:59:12 | amiconn | Code from the stone age ;) |
| 21:59:23 | lImbus_ | ah, well :D |
| 22:00 |
| 22:00:08 | lImbus_ | thank you guys. I went considerably fast. I am very happy ^^ |
| 22:05:48 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 22:06:28 | * | [IDC]Dragon is back |
| 22:06:39 | [IDC]Dragon | I missed the show here |
| 22:06:46 | amiconn | yup |
| 22:07:10 | [IDC]Dragon | a tiny remark about you ata_mmc.c fix: |
| 22:07:22 | [IDC]Dragon | if ((card_no != 0) ^ (read_hw_mask() & MMC_CLOCK_POLARITY)) |
| 22:07:44 | [IDC]Dragon | the ^ works bitwise, not logical |
| 22:08:19 | amiconn | yes... but the expressions in parentheses should give logical values (?) |
| 22:08:51 | [IDC]Dragon | the right expression is not 0 or 1, but 0 or MMC_CLOCK_POLARITY |
| 22:10:05 | amiconn | Argh, yes. That means external MMC doesn't work for newer units (ours) :( |
| 22:10:27 | [IDC]Dragon | should read: |
| 22:10:57 | amiconn | Strange: it seems to work ??? |
| 22:11:21 | [IDC]Dragon | if ((card_no != 0) ^ ((read_hw_mask() & MMC_CLOCK_POLARITY) != 0)) |
| 22:11:47 | * | amiconn goes to check the disassembly thereof |
| 22:12:01 | [IDC]Dragon | for both MMC and internal? |
| 22:12:08 | | Join AciD [0] (~gni@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 22:12:52 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: yes |
| 22:13:16 | [IDC]Dragon | maybe gcc likes you |
| 22:13:53 | amiconn | Still, youre right about the correct version (me silly). Unfortunately there is no ^^ operator |
| 22:14:33 | [IDC]Dragon | yes, what a pity |
| 22:19:45 | amiconn | Ah, me really silly :( The old version did indeed not work. |
| 22:20:52 | amiconn | Now it's much better |
| 22:23:57 | | Part Timmah |
| 22:25:09 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: We still don't use the bridge activity signal... |
| 22:25:53 | [IDC]Dragon | ah, yes, I forgot about it |
| 22:26:35 | amiconn | Me too. I re-discovered it while looking at the archos disassembly. |
| 22:26:39 | | Join ripnetUK [0] (~mirc@82-70-100-230.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 22:27:39 | amiconn | There are different thresholds depending on mask bit 2 as well (that is what I couldn't clearly identify before, thought the MMC detection works differently) |
| 22:28:24 | | Join edx [0] (edx@pD9EAB7BF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:28:25 | [IDC]Dragon | thresholds? |
| 22:28:54 | amiconn | Yes... what analog value means activity and what means no activity |
| 22:30:09 | [IDC]Dragon | the digital siganl from the bridge? strange |
| 22:30:21 | [IDC]Dragon | or polarity? |
| 22:30:46 | amiconn | In fact it's both polarity and threshold. |
| 22:33:48 | amiconn | lImbus_: Could you tell me the value of AN5 from the debug menu? |
| 22:34:45 | [IDC]Dragon | I can't contribute to wiki any more, since a couple of days |
| 22:35:26 | amiconn | ? I though Linus had fixed that :( |
| 22:35:28 | [IDC]Dragon | always gives me an error when previewing the new page |
| 22:35:54 | amiconn | Btw: it works for me, just did some small changes a short time ago |
| 22:36:15 | amiconn | Maybe it depends on the topic |
| 22:36:18 | [IDC]Dragon | maybe certain pages are "bad"? |
| 22:36:27 | amiconn | :) |
| 22:36:35 | LinusN | [IDC]Dragon: which oage is it? |
| 22:36:38 | LinusN | page |
| 22:36:47 | | Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 22:37:23 | [IDC]Dragon | LinusN: I'm trying to update BlindFaq |
| 22:37:41 | LinusN | what's the error message? |
| 22:37:57 | [IDC]Dragon | server not found |
| 22:38:11 | [IDC]Dragon | something like that, depends on the browser |
| 22:38:36 | LinusN | it's locked by you |
| 22:39:24 | [IDC]Dragon | hmm, I hit cancel |
| 22:39:30 | [IDC]Dragon | still locked? |
| 22:42:36 | LinusN | hmmm, i can edit it |
| 22:42:56 | [IDC]Dragon | I can email you the new content ;-) |
| 22:43:08 | LinusN | try again |
| 22:44:03 | [IDC]Dragon | no |
| 22:44:35 | [IDC]Dragon | IE gives me the standard error page |
| 22:44:58 | LinusN | which is? |
| 22:45:27 | | Quit methangas (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Get hot chicks here!") |
| 22:45:37 | [IDC]Dragon | roughly translated "This page is currently unavailable" and a whole text page article of ridiculous general advise |
| 22:45:59 | LinusN | go to the advanced settings and disable those silly messages |
| 22:46:09 | LinusN | so you can read the real error message |
| 22:46:55 | [IDC]Dragon | hmm, I didn't know such settings |
| 22:47:41 | amiconn | Internetoptionen -> Erweitert -> "Kurze HTTP-Fehlermeldungen anzeigen" |
| 22:48:08 | amiconn | Anyway, I don't use IE by default |
| 22:48:15 | [IDC]Dragon | I know |
| 22:48:19 | * | amiconn tries to edit with both IE and Mozilla |
| 22:48:51 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: It's locked by you |
| 22:49:06 | [IDC]Dragon | I got the same error page, with inverted setting |
| 22:49:24 | [IDC]Dragon | should be unlocked now |
| 22:50:19 | amiconn | Mozilla works perfectly, IE gives that error page |
| 22:50:44 | [IDC]Dragon | OT: seen this one: http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ |
| 22:51:42 | | Join AciD [0] (~gni@longchamp44-1-82-67-133-87.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 22:51:44 | amiconn | Hehe, I already knew that one :) |
| 22:55:31 | [IDC]Dragon | I tried firefox from work, but also no good |
| 22:55:58 | [IDC]Dragon | Opera here also gives me a server error |
| 22:56:36 | amiconn | I tried AWeb on Amiga, works too. I have a number of different browsers I could try. |
| 22:56:48 | amiconn | LinusN: Do you have an idea what might be going on? |
| 22:57:25 | LinusN | no |
| 22:57:35 | LinusN | is there a proxy involved? |
| 22:57:59 | [IDC]Dragon | not here |
| 22:58:04 | [IDC]Dragon | at work, yes |
| 22:58:13 | amiconn | No proxy here as well |
| 22:58:36 | amiconn | I tried IE4.0 (yup!), that also does not work, but gives a different error message |
| 22:58:48 | | Join matsl [0] (~matsl@1-1-4-2a.mal.sth.bostream.se) |
| 22:58:49 | LinusN | so basically it works with other browsers than IE? |
| 22:59:12 | [IDC]Dragon | not for me |
| 22:59:34 | [IDC]Dragon | I can install firefox, need to dl it |
| 22:59:55 | quelsaruk | i can try with firefox if you need |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:20 | LinusN | [IDC]Dragon: i see lots of errors in the web server log |
| 23:00:41 | amiconn | LinusN: Browsers confirmed working: Mozilla 1.7de (Win), AWeb 3.4 (Amiga). Browsers having problems: IE 6.0 (Win), IE 4.0 (Win), Opera 6 (Win) |
| 23:01:05 | amiconn | I will try all other browsers available here |
| 23:06:53 | * | [IDC]Dragon has installed firefox 1.0 now |
| 23:07:08 | [IDC]Dragon | amiconn has locked the page |
| 23:07:32 | amiconn | I'll unlock, just completed my tests. The results are bad :( |
| 23:08:42 | | Quit ripnetUK (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:08:56 | amiconn | LinusN: I additionally tested IE 5.0, 5.5; Opera 7, Espial Escape 5.01, HotJava 3.0, Netscape 4.78, IBrowse 2.3 (Amiga). None of these work. |
| 23:09:15 | [IDC]Dragon | nice collection |
| 23:09:22 | [IDC]Dragon | is that a hobby? |
| 23:09:28 | amiconn | The only browsers working here are Mozilla 1.7 and AWeb 3.4 |
| 23:09:56 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: No, this is for testing my own web pages. I don't like to be like many other web "developers" |
| 23:10:01 | [IDC]Dragon | firefox shows me a white page as a preview |
| 23:10:29 | | Join ze [0] (psyco@adsl-63-205-40-128.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 23:10:30 | amiconn | That is also considered "not working" by me (got it with Espial Escape) |
| 23:11:02 | quelsaruk | amazing... normally people test ie, mozilla, opera and nothing more... |
| 23:11:30 | [IDC]Dragon | oh, white was IE, now testing firefox |
| 23:12:05 | [IDC]Dragon | it just does nothing, after pretending some traffic |
| 23:13:10 | amiconn | LinusN: I was wrong, it's still Mozilla 1.6 here (which is working) |
| 23:17:42 | amiconn | Mozilla 1.7 does work as well |
| 23:18:20 | [IDC]Dragon | I have no browser installed which works fo me |
| 23:20:08 | amiconn | Hehe, funny: Stone-aged Netscape 3 works |
| 23:20:39 | amiconn | (apart from displaying not a single image) |
| 23:25:50 | [IDC]Dragon | amiconn: I did the voice pause appendixer now |
| 23:26:15 | [IDC]Dragon | seems to work fine |
| 23:26:35 | amiconn | Did you check out the ugly effects without it? |
| 23:26:52 | [IDC]Dragon | not to the full extent |
| 23:27:11 | [IDC]Dragon | I just used an older voice file, without the pause |
| 23:27:22 | [IDC]Dragon | giving clicks at the end |
| 23:27:56 | amiconn | Yes... that's with 16 kHz. If you try the 12 kHz files without appending pause, it gets even more ugly |
| 23:27:58 | | Join [av]bani [0] (~goemon@washuu.anime.net) |
| 23:28:05 | | Quit mecraw_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:28:44 | | Join mecraw_ [0] (~lmarlow@69.2.235.2) |
| 23:31:42 | [IDC]Dragon | amiconn: committed now, you can try yourself |
| 23:32:19 | amiconn | LinusN: Konqueror 3.0.3 works for wiki edit too. Do you already have an idea what may cause this weird browser dependent errors? |
| 23:34:41 | LinusN | i have googled a little |
| 23:34:57 | LinusN | it seems to be a bug in apache 2.0 |
| 23:35:19 | [IDC]Dragon | amiconn: I've sent you the new BlindFAQ, while you're at it |
| 23:35:31 | LinusN | and it seems to be something with the Content-Length header somehow |
| 23:47:28 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: I updated BlindFAQ, please look whether it is correct. |
| 23:51:40 | [IDC]Dragon | thanks. why should it not be correct? |
| 23:51:49 | | Part [av]bani |
| 23:52:02 | amiconn | Erm, since you couldn't test your changes? |
| 23:52:17 | amiconn | (Thinking of tables etc) |
| 23:52:25 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: Voice menus are *way* better now, thank! |
| 23:52:51 | [IDC]Dragon | the low bitrate voice file exibits another nasty thing again: missing beginnings |
| 23:53:24 | [IDC]Dragon | when aborting a clip. I had quite a struggle with that in the past |
| 23:53:38 | amiconn | Yes... but only if you jump from entry to entry too fast (when the trailing pause clip is not yet completely played) |
| 23:54:00 | [IDC]Dragon | that's the idea of aborting... |
| 23:54:39 | amiconn | Yes... for some reason, it still doesn't work correctly. Perhaps the frame header search is too slow? |
| 23:55:23 | [IDC]Dragon | I don't think so. Especially with low bitrate the consumptions is very slow |
| 23:56:16 | amiconn | Hmm. The only other reason I can think of is that we don't hit the right spot, in spite of trying to |
| 23:57:03 | [IDC]Dragon | I made extensive logging |
| 23:57:43 | [IDC]Dragon | to verify what's transported and that the frame boundaries are obeyed |
| 23:57:52 | amiconn | Are you able to log the data going to the mas (I mean what is coming out of the SPI)? |
| 23:58:14 | [IDC]Dragon | no, I logged the DMA setup |
icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).