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#rockbox log for 2004-11-19

00:01:09 Quit midk ("just STOP it arspy")
00:06:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:06:35 Quit Digital007 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
00:13:48 Part oxygen77 ("Tcho")
00:17:04 Join AimVector [0] (AV@
00:41:07 Quit edx ()
00:55:34 Join iFliP [0] (
00:56:37 Quit iFliP (Client Quit)
01:12:36 Quit AciD (Remote closed the connection)
01:13:17 Join taz2 [0] (
01:14:03taz2Does RockBox work on archos jukebox Multimedia 20?
01:15:16 Quit taz2 (Client Quit)
01:22:17 Join midk [0] (
01:33:13 Quit midk ("just STOP it arspy")
01:33:50 Join midk [0] (
01:46:47 Join LinusN [0] (
01:48:13amiconnhi LinusN
01:49:17amiconnI now have enabled the memory guard in my personal build by default. I just found another spot that causes zero area hits...
01:50:58amiconnIt's only one place - setting the peak meter release time. If you look into this setting, you may notice that the unit isn't there as well (was "units per read" in ealier rockbox)
01:51:14amiconnI'm already on to fixing it
01:52:01amiconnI just need to know where str() is defined (not STR() - already found that one)
02:04:37LinusNATA and FAT works fine on the iriver now :-)
02:05:33amiconnUiih, commit flooding :)
02:05:40amiconnNice work :)
02:06:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:06:39amiconnNo short-hand byte/ word swap on coldfire?
02:07:37LinusNswap.w exists, swaps the two 16-bit halves
02:07:51LinusNbut no swap.b
02:08:37 Quit midk ("just STOP it arspy")
02:08:54LinusNwe'll see if we can optimize those
02:09:02LinusNi just wanted something that works
02:12:10 Quit mecraw_ ("Trillian (")
02:16:45amiconnFix committed.
02:22:09LinusNhmmm, i've made some major changes to ata.c, so i'll have to test it on the archos before i commit
02:22:17LinusNand i need to sleep
02:23:24amiconnI hope your other changes didn't brake something on archos
02:24:46LinusNlet's hope that
02:25:23amiconnI just compiled & installed current cvs on Ondio - seems to work :)
02:29:45amiconnsame for recorder :)
02:32:10 Join amiconn_ [0] (
02:32:23 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
02:32:23 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (
02:32:27amiconnLinusN: Do you have an idea why both -O2 and -Os create binaries that fail with an IllInstr exception?
02:35:33amiconnAnyway, probably I should get some sleep too
02:40:25 Part LinusN
02:51:53AimVectorhow can i connect my jukebox hard drive to my pc?
02:52:04AimVectorthe ide connector doesnt fit, my jukebox is dead
02:54:40amiconnYou will either need a 2.5"->3.5" hd adapter, or an external 2.5" usb enclosure
02:56:16AimVectoroh right
02:56:23AimVectori tried fixing my jukebox but no luck
02:56:25AimVectorits dead :(
03:01:40 Part amiconn
03:31:25AimVectoranyone here?
04:00:40*AimVector is away: sleeping
04:06:26***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:30:47 Quit Stryke` ("Friends don't let friends listen to Anti-Flag")
05:18:34 Join midk [0] (
06:04:22 Quit scott666_ ("i'll be back...eventually...")
06:06:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:22:05 Join Cor [0] (
06:24:27 Quit Cor (Client Quit)
06:24:54 Join Cor [0] (
06:33:08Correquest: any chance of enabling FF/RW in playlist view ?
06:33:44Cor'view playlist' as it's called in the menu
06:33:52midkall the keys are used, right?
06:35:15midkis l/r used in the viewer?
06:36:04Corholding down the key is not, i believe
06:39:35midknot uypt o me anyways :).. bagder may or may not be of service
06:40:02 Quit midk ("just STOP it arspy")
06:44:13Cori'd also appreciate being able to stay in the 'view playlist' mode and have it scroll down to the next song when it begins playing in the 'WPS'
06:55:36 Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection)
06:56:36 Join matsl [0] (
07:14:15 Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection)
07:24:53 Join ashridah [0] (
07:48:24 Join oxygen77 [0] (
08:06:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:16:01 Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
08:22:52 Join lImbus [0] (
08:31:06 Join amiconn [0] (
08:31:24amiconnGood morning
08:40:48lImbusy0, hi
08:46:26 Join einhirn [0] (
08:46:45amiconnlImbus: Nice that you added the side-by-side view in the wiki :)
08:47:24lImbusnow browsing people need laaarge screens :)
08:47:48amiconnAll three pics fit into my browser window
08:48:13lImbusBTW: Ondio->recording settings->source ->digital is not really functional, isn't it ?
08:48:57amiconnI think so. I didn't check whether Jrg removed it or not. My Ondio SP has no recording :(
08:49:29lImbuswhat a bummer
08:49:55lImbusI like recording from radio, even if the quality is crap...
08:51:13amiconnThe SP is the simplified version - no recording, no radio.
08:51:25amiconnJust look at my tuner board
08:52:04lImbusyup, I saw. but I still don't know why they named it "sp" then. SimPel ?
08:52:55amiconnSimple Player?
08:53:20*lImbus gets another cup of coffee
09:06:36 Join AciD [0] (
09:14:48 Join kurzhaarrocker [0] (
09:23:00 Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
09:23:28Bagdersilly player perhaps? ;-)
09:23:45 Join AciD [0] (
09:24:03kurzhaarrockerNeither Linus nor Zagor? Are they stuck in the snow?
09:24:17Bagderwe had lots of more tonight
09:24:40Bagderhm, that came out wrong but you get my point ;-)
09:42:56oxygen77hello Bagder
09:43:53oxygen77I'm working in the linav project
09:44:19oxygen77and I was willing to use the id3 code from rockbox
09:44:22 Join Zagor [242] (
09:44:59Bagderoxygen77: you GPL your code?
09:45:42Bagderthen go ahead! ;-)
09:45:49oxygen77I know there is no problem regarding the license
09:46:01oxygen77I'm informing you
09:46:30oxygen77I want to put linav headers
09:46:45oxygen77but also keep the information that this code is comming from rockbox
09:46:47Bagderwe are actually a whole bunch of people who've made that what it is today
09:47:27oxygen77so how do you want this to be put?
09:47:42Bagderwell, you should keep the (C) text and the GPL blurb from our header, then you can prepend whatever you want
09:48:01Bagderor possibly have your own GPL blurb of course
09:48:30oxygen77what is the (c) text ?
09:48:36Bagder"Copyright (C) 2002 by Daniel Stenberg"
09:48:38oxygen77Copyright (C) 2002 by Linus Nielsen Feltzing
09:49:12Bagderthe id3.c mentions my name
09:49:35oxygen77not the mp3data.h
09:49:49oxygen77but the mp3data.c does
09:49:50Bagderhehe, nope
09:50:36oxygen77I'll also keep the txt about ample project
09:50:58Bagderit shows the history of the file
09:51:07BagderI don't think anything from ample is still in there now
09:51:43oxygen77k :D
09:55:33 Join LinusN [0] (
09:55:56Bagdermorning LinusN
10:05:38LinusNfrom the MisticRiver forum: "If there's one thing I hate more than anything else on here and on the rockbox forums, it's the sheer amount of people kissing rockbox arse."
10:06:03Bagderenvy shining through? ;-)
10:06:19LinusNnah, i took the message out of context
10:06:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:06:39Bagderthat's what we like! ;-P
10:06:59*Bagder remembers the classic: "you're only making rubbish"
10:06:59kurzhaarrockerHow do you get rid of all that lipstick?
10:07:21LinusNi got the "when is it ready" question for the 100th time, and someone replied "Do *NOT* hassle 'Da Man' while he's working. OK? Good."
10:08:07LinusNso i can understand his reaction
10:10:56Bagderone shouldn't expect too much from those user forums
10:12:09dwihno"you're only making rubbish"?
10:12:15*kurzhaarrocker suspects that internet forums made tv producers aware that there is a niche for afternoon talkshows.
10:12:19Bagderdwihno: good old mailing list posting in the past
10:12:41dwihnoA name change... Rubbishbox :)
10:13:53Bagderwe are all just silly people
10:14:34 Quit oxygen77 ("Cho")
10:14:58Zagorit's a true classic
10:15:57dwihnoHa ha ha
10:16:05dwihnoSilly^2 ><))))8>
10:18:00 Join oxygen77 [0] (
10:31:40 Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
10:49:11 Join AciD [0] (
10:53:54 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (
10:55:03 Quit oxygen77 ("Cho")
10:55:17 Join gromit` [0] (
10:56:23 Join oxygen77 [0] (
10:57:33 Quit gromit`_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
10:58:02*LinusN can read and write files and directories on his iriver
10:58:16LinusNand handle button events
10:58:26LinusNbacklight works
10:58:37LinusNhard drive spindown works too
10:59:39[IDC]DragonLinusN: I get a habit of congratulating
11:00:18LinusNkeep it coming :-)
11:00:19[IDC]Dragondo you compile the rest of Rockbox with it? Can you browse?
11:00:48LinusNi added tree.c last night, but it depends on every f*cking file in rockbox...
11:01:12LinusNso i skipped that part for now
11:01:12amiconnLinusN: You broke the iRiver sim...
11:01:20LinusNas if i cared :-)
11:01:39LinusN295 errors? not a record...
11:01:52[IDC]Dragondidn't the sime browse and show menus?
11:02:03LinusNyes it did
11:02:31[IDC]Dragonbut the target make is a lot different?
11:02:43LinusNa lot
11:02:52[IDC]Dragonah, ok
11:03:08LinusNtotally fake
11:04:44amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Did you notice that I changed KeymapOndio (already 2 days ago), describing the current keyboard button assignment?
11:05:07[IDC]DragonI just did
11:05:30[IDC]Dragonstrangely, I changed it yesterday, which is not indicated
11:06:25[IDC]Dragonmy intention was to describe the 2.3 state, so Christy could work it into the manual
11:08:40*oxygen77 is away: Chui pas l
11:08:52LinusNit seems like twiki has problems with the "release lock" feature
11:15:18amiconnZagor et al: Given the new intended release cycle of 8 weeks, we can have a wonderful release date for 2.4: 2004-12-24 :-)
11:15:42[IDC]Dragonspoiling our vacation?
11:16:48Zagorit would be fun, but I expect most of us will be on Real Life duty that day
11:17:14[IDC]Dragonthe iriver is working by then? ;-)
11:17:27[IDC]Dragonwill it shuffle correct?
11:17:56LinusNand OTF playlists?
11:18:05[IDC]Dragonand play record mp3, ogg, wma, flac
11:18:06LinusNand gapless?
11:18:32[IDC]DragonI forgot some: wav, sid, midi
11:18:41Zagor[IDC]Dragon: we can't have real shuffle, since we don't have an rtc. i read that on the intarnet
11:19:01[IDC]Dragonoh, what a pity
11:19:11Zagori'll go make some snow angles instead
11:19:16[IDC]Dragonwas that on AOL?
11:19:18amiconnZagor: The release could be prepared beforehand, letting it build the packages by an automated script on 2004-12-24
11:19:52[IDC]DragonI want to automate packages on xmas, yes
11:21:22LinusNand a prerecorded irc discussion
11:21:32[IDC]DragonlImbus: are you there?
11:29:29[IDC]DragonLinusN, Zagor, Bagder: I like that "global moderator" status you have in the forums
11:29:42[IDC]Dragonwill you bring us world peace?
11:30:53LinusNyes, that's our god given mission
11:31:33lImbus[IDC]Dragon: i am somehow
11:32:03lImbuscongratz, LinusN
11:32:12[IDC]DragonlImbus: I'm curious about that shielding in your box
11:32:37lImbusyou saw the pictures. what do you want to know ? should I open them ?
11:32:57[IDC]Dragonbetter not
11:33:13[IDC]DragonI'm wondering how it is attached
11:33:21lImbusmaybe it's for the radio. it has HUGE bursts from the electronics (beeping for keypresses, and so on)
11:33:59lImbusI reassembled the ondio. but I can have a look, only it will take up to sunday.
11:34:06[IDC]Dragonthat's probably why they kicked it out, replacing with Philips
11:35:05lImbusi suppose the only attaching point of these shield are the small soldering points you can see on the scans
11:35:20[IDC]DragonJens and I have been speculating about the EL backlight chip, the empty socket which is just under the white plastic in your pic
11:35:57[IDC]Dragonthe pinout is different on yours
11:36:24lImbus8 pins ?
11:36:33[IDC]Dragonis the white plastic glued to the shield? you didn't take it off
11:37:06lImbusyes, it's glued. and you don't see more if you don't take away the shield, so I led it be
11:37:31*lImbus has got to go very soon
11:38:03lImbusthe lcd_off picture is mainly for the quarz/oscillo
11:39:20lImbusa propos EL-backlight. It's what wrecked on my laptop yesterday evening.... the tft is now veeeery dark :(
11:39:41[IDC]Dragonohh, how did it happen?
11:40:38lImbusdunno. it gave some electric sounds (like that beeping from electronic circuits in recorders recordings), then was black. in the middle of the sentense i was typing. now using rdp inhouse ...
11:41:02[IDC]Dragonlaptops don't have EL backlight, but fluorescent lamps
11:41:39[IDC]Dragonsounds like the inverter gave up
11:42:06lImbusmhmm. I don't care. it wrecked, and it's still on guarantee, so I'll make some helpdesk-hopping today
11:44:00lImbusim just a small bit disappointed. a few bad things happen these days...
11:48:05 Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
11:48:58 Join AciD [0] (
11:53:51lImbusgotta go. will we back later
11:54:00 Quit lImbus (" HydraIRC -> <- s0 d4Mn l33t |t'z 5c4rY!")
12:06:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:30:27 Join Fots [0] (
12:30:47Fotshi all
12:31:23Fots:) i've noticed the firmware stuff u guys are doing, nice work
12:31:35Fotsi'm thinking about buying an mp3 player
12:31:38Fotsso confused :D
12:31:43Fotshow r u Linus ?
12:32:04LinusNi'm fine, a little tired, too little sleep
12:32:16Fotsyeah same here, had my last exam today
12:32:34Fots:D r u doing exams atm too ?
12:33:02LinusNhehe, that was a long time ago
12:33:08Fotsaahh, lol
12:33:12LinusNi'm 36
12:33:22Fotsaahh :D
12:33:24Fotswell i just finished my course, im 21
12:33:55Fotshey Linus, what do u think of the iAudio m3 ?
12:34:02Fotshave u ever tried one ?
12:34:07LinusNi have no opinion
12:34:32*ashridah notes that it supports FLAC, last he heard.
12:34:45LinusNif you want rockbox, go for an archos recorder or an iriver H1xx
12:34:48Fotslol yeah thats what i just noticed too
12:35:06Fotsyeah, well i dont mind either way, as long as the firmware provided is good
12:35:18Fotsashridah: if it does gapless with FLAC, then im buying it
12:35:30Fotsbut i dont know if it does gapless with flac :'(
12:35:58ashridahi really couldn't care less either way. FLAC in a portable player seems overly extreme by my standards.
12:35:59Fotsim afraid the archos recorder isnt sold in local shops here in Australia
12:36:01Zagori wouldn't want a player without a display on the main unit. i don't want to have to use the remote all the time.
12:36:10Fotsashridah: yep thats true
12:36:23FotsZagor: yeah, i see ur point, well i cant really find a good alternative
12:36:43Fotsall i want is 3 things, gapless playback + a remote + a good built product
12:36:45ashridahFots: hm. i haven't seen the iaudio anywhere, that said, i haven't really been looking since i got my iriver h140 back in april or so
12:36:56ZagorFots: looked at the iriver?
12:36:57Fotsashridah: whats the iriver like ?
12:37:06Fotsyeah, i should give em another look i guess
12:37:17Fotsi hear that their gapless support sucks
12:37:18Fotsis that true ?
12:37:26Fotsapart from that, they look very nice
12:37:36ashridahin that it's not really there? you could say that, yes.
12:37:45Fotsashridah: yeah
12:37:51Fotsthats such a shame
12:37:55ashridahthe only problem is the remote for the h3xx series bites, in comparison to the one you get with the H1xx
12:38:06Fotsaahh, how do u mean ?
12:38:07Zagoras far as I know there is only one player that does gapless with stock formware: rio karma
12:38:11ashridah(that said, you can buy a replacement and it works with the H3xx perfectly, last i checked)
12:38:17Fotsahhh well thats gr8
12:38:23FotsZagor: yeah
12:38:32FotsZagor: i just question the build quality of rio units
12:38:37ashridahbut the one that comes with the H3xx has no LCD, and less buttons
12:38:38Fotsthey dont seem very robust
12:38:48Fotsashridah: ahh, well i dont really mind about that
12:38:53Fotsi was also considering minidisc
12:38:59*ashridah has been very mobile with his H140 since he got it, and hasn't had any issues)
12:38:59Fotsatrac+ at 256 sounds ok
12:39:02Fotsbut not perfect
12:39:08ZagorFots: you must understand we are not a generic mp3 player group. we are naturally biased towards players that can run our firmware
12:39:11Fotsashridah: nice dude, i will check em out again
12:39:20FotsZagor: yep, i understand
12:39:32Fotsi just thought id come in and get some of your opinions
12:39:37Fotsand have a chat
12:40:00Fotsr u guys planning to do gapless and stuff on the iriver ?
12:40:10Fotsmaybe i should just wait for ur gr8 firmware
12:40:20Fotsi think i'll do that actually
12:40:50Fotsit just annoys me that companies can't do a proper job themselves
12:40:55Fotsthe same happened with creative drivers
12:41:08Fotsand now theres an independent group developing drivers coz creative suck
12:41:19Zagorthey only do enough to sell them. anything more is a waste of money.
12:41:19Fotsi use the kx drivers, they are so much better
12:41:24Fotsyeah lol
12:41:33Zagorit's the commercial development dilemma
12:41:53Fotssee thats why i enjoy iTunes, its definately a nice little program, but god the whole battery not being replaced and nongapless playback makes ipod look like shit
12:42:32Fotsapple are definately developing for monetary gain, not reputation among perfectionists
12:42:36Fotsi guess its worked so far lol
12:43:03ashridahi've heard people say the audio quality of ipods aren't that hot compared to some other players too, but that's complete hearsay
12:43:09ashridahsince i've never listened to one.
12:43:17Fotsyeah, iv read the same ashridah
12:43:22Fotsthey say it sounds tinny
12:43:26ashridahthe part that scares me about ipods is taht one of my friends wants to get one purely because it comes in pink!
12:43:27Fotsthen again, they are probly encoding at 128 lol
12:43:28Zagorhowever audio quality is always very subjective
12:43:34Fotsashridah: lmao
12:43:35ashridah(female friend, that is)
12:43:42Fotsashridah: naturally lmao
12:43:48Fotssee, thats what pisses me off about apple
12:44:09Fotsi mean, they just released the ipod photo, and their ordinary ipod still doesnt even play music perfectly
12:44:18Fotsso is all the coding for firmware done in assembly?
12:44:30Zagorno, 98% is C
12:44:34Fotsaahh nice
12:44:44kurzhaarrocker0% in java
12:44:50Fotslmao good !
12:44:52Fotsjava = crap
12:44:54ashridahis the ipod doing hardware or software decoding?
12:44:57Fotsim a c++ fan
12:45:07Zagorashridah: software
12:45:12ashridahjava isn't crap, it's just not suited to some tasks.
12:45:19Fotslol thats true
12:45:24Fotsi.e. its crap
12:45:25Fotsj/k j/k
12:45:29ashridahZagor: so what was the purpose of the proprietary chip you guys couldn't get unrestricted info on?
12:45:59ashridahFots: have you ever developed a large-scale multi-tier web application with java?
12:46:10ashridahcome back and tell me it's crap once you've done it with people who know how to design well.
12:46:16LinusNit's the chip that does the decoding
12:46:16Fotsi cant say i have ashridah
12:46:25Fotsashridah: iv used servlets
12:46:30Fotswhich i despise
12:46:32Zagorashridah: it's a modified arm7 core, likely with some dsp instructions to speed up decoding
12:46:49Fotsashridah: but they are definately very robust and emphasise good structure
12:47:20Fotsashridah: iv developed a large multi-tier web application in PHP, which isnt quite as robust as Java
12:47:45Fotshave u tried PHP ?
12:47:56*ashridah notes that the people in question were very surprised when it scaled as well as it did, AND when they found otu it took them 3 days to rip out the oracle specific stuff and replace it with postgres stuff when the client realised they couldn't afford oracle for each school in the state :) )
12:48:44kurzhaarrockerphp is nice for quickhacks
12:48:51ashridahyeah, php's nice. i've done plenty of adhoc stuff with it, and it does have the infrastructure available to do larger projects, but i haven't had to work with it that far yet
12:49:02ashridahit tends to be a bit patchy in some areas tho
12:49:09Fotsashridah: yeah thats true
12:49:19Fotsi definately think that servlets / applets are more robust
12:49:25ashridahit takes discipline more than anything
12:49:40Fotsthats totally true
12:49:43ashridahwhich is the same with pretty much any language.
12:50:12Fotswhen i say java is crap, i say it because i hate that my uni is starting to teach java first instead of c+
12:50:41Fotsso i kinda have this personal thing against it because i personally dont believe its a good first language
12:50:51Fotsnot to say that its not a good language, but just not a good "first" language
12:50:55Fotsdo u know what i mena ?
12:51:35Fotsoh well, iv bored u all enough, i'll get outta here lmao
12:52:12 Quit Fots ()
12:52:59 Join Tang [0] (~chatzilla@
12:53:28TangHi all
12:53:51Tangjust to congratulate Linus for last progresses on iRiverport
12:54:01Tanglooks very fine
13:03:16*[IDC]Dragon spots cvs traffic
13:03:52[IDC]Dragonif LinusN proceeds like this, he'll have the pluging working tonight ;-)
13:04:55[IDC]Dragonhow much space do we grant them this time?
13:04:58LinusNwell, my family is back from their trip, so i won't have that much time for hacking
13:05:21[IDC]Dragonah, they've been away, hence the activity
13:05:24LinusNon the iriver? well, more than 32K at least :-)
13:05:57*[IDC]Dragon should get an iriver
13:06:14[IDC]Dragonbut /me has less than zero time...
13:06:16dwihnoLinusN: Yay for ATA progress \o/
13:06:57[IDC]Dragonmaybe I'm back in development in a good year from now
13:07:47Tanglol we would hope for another LinusM's parents trip!
13:28:19LinusNparents? you mean wife and kids.
13:34:11*oxygen77 is back (gone 02:25:31)
13:36:12[IDC]DragonLinusN looks so young
13:37:00[IDC]Dragonwe have to take care when his parents are away, that he dosn't spent too much time with these computers
13:37:56 Quit ashridah ("sleep")
13:46:08TangOh sorry LinusM indeed i thought you were younger...
13:54:51TangBye everybody!
13:55:04 Quit Tang ("Chatzilla 0.9.66 [Mozilla rv:1.7.5/20041108]")
14:00:03 Join R3nTiL [0] (
14:00:24kurzhaarrockerLinus: concerning triggered recording - what do you mean with "issues with screen updates and button handling"
14:02:25LinusNi believe we had to change a few things to achieve faster screen updates, weren't we? (in the peak_meter_button_blabla() function)
14:03:49LinusNplus our discussion about the visual feedback in general, with the traffic light being in the way of long translated strings
14:04:35Zagori think we should commit the traffic light (drawn after the text, so it ends up on top) and then make a new fix if we actually run into that problem
14:04:57 Quit R3nTiL ()
14:05:08LinusNok, and perhaps disable Pause?
14:06:06Zagorhmm, remind me
14:06:25LinusNthe triggering code doesn't like to pause the recording
14:06:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:06:41Zagorah, ok. how about making pause stop if in trigger mode?
14:07:20LinusNor just ignore it
14:07:33LinusNkurzhaarrocker: comments?
14:10:41*AimVector is back after 10h9m: sleeping
14:10:46AimVectorLinusN hey
14:11:07AimVectorremember my problem with my jukebox?
14:12:37LinusNeh, no...
14:13:30AimVectoryou said the clicking of my hard drive could have been the battery connectors
14:13:41AimVectorwell its not
14:13:52AimVectori plugged the hard drive into my laptop and the very same happens
14:14:08LinusNthere you have it
14:14:12AimVectorclick click click ciick, click click click click
14:14:22LinusNtime to go shopping then :-)
14:14:45kurzhaarrockersorry, was afk for a mo
14:15:01AimVectorapparently if i tighten up a screw it can fix it though, dunno if you have heard of this problem before
14:15:37kurzhaarrockerAbout visual feedback: we (I) can make a line with bigger display. If the trigger status has its own line it won't collide with other strings
14:17:48kurzhaarrockerThe pause mode still is something I'll have to look at. I'm not sure how I want it to behave. Probably I'll prefer to disable it while triggered recording. Imho it doesn't make sense.
14:17:58LinusNAimVector: worth trying :-)
14:18:17LinusNkurzhaarrocker: let's disable it
14:19:02LinusNif we use a whole line for feedback, how would it affect the setting screen?
14:19:14elinenbeLinusN: how close are we to a rockbox working on the iriver?
14:19:35kurzhaarrocker(btw: It wasn't the screen update but the led blinking frequency that required faster button polling)
14:19:39elinenbeI'm excited about all your great progress
14:19:55[IDC]Dragonamiconn: r u there?
14:20:13kurzhaarrockerIn the screen settings I already have to scroll for the last line. Scrolling for another line won't hurt that much.
14:21:38Zagori don't like replacing the traffic light with text. complementing is fine, but don't remove the light.
14:21:56[IDC]Dragontraffic light?
14:21:56LinusNZagor: who said anything about text?
14:22:09kurzhaarrockerI'd have something like a horizontal bigger traffic light + text in that line, Zagor
14:22:40LinusN[IDC]Dragon: visual feedback in the triggering mode
14:22:56[IDC]Dragonlike a vu meter?
14:23:22Zagori still think we should commit it as-is and then work on improvements
14:23:35LinusNZagor: okidoki
14:24:03[IDC]Dragonthat setting screen is indeed different
14:24:18LinusNyes, not easily translated
14:24:23[IDC]Dragonprobably works only in english
14:24:46kurzhaarrockeryes. Primarily because it needs optical feedback about the trigger behaviour while setting the trigger settings
14:25:17[IDC]Dragonno voice, I guess (recording mode)
14:25:24LinusNperhaps it would be better with icons? (i can't believe i said that)
14:25:57[IDC]Dragonnow hell breaks loose
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14:32:08kurzhaarrockerfar in the back of my had some ideas about a graphical interface where you edit a curve rise.. But that's trigger V2.0
14:38:04[IDC]Dragon"There will soon exist bitmapped players without RTC": they already do, Ondio
14:39:00midkplayers as in with a hard drive?
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14:39:48[IDC]Dragonthis was from LinusN's clock plugin commit
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14:40:08[IDC]Dragonso far, we handled it in SOURCES
14:40:14LinusNsilly me
14:40:51[IDC]Dragonno, double protection is good, and makes it visible from the source
14:40:54LinusNthe simulator doesn't have SOURCES
14:42:02Zagorthe simulator makefiles are due for realignment with the regular builds
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14:47:42amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Now I'm here
14:51:46[IDC]Dragonjust got a call from a Linear Technology representative
14:51:59[IDC]Dragonbecause of the sample I ordered
14:52:24[IDC]DragonI was barely able to stop him from visiting here :-/
14:52:26kurzhaarrockerAnd how many thousands did you reorder? :9
14:53:10[IDC]Dragonshould I not have checked the box that I'll taget 5 mio pieces/month? ;-)
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15:00:16amiconn[IDC]Dragon: I now have the memory guard enabled by default in my personal builds
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15:05:40[IDC]Dragonhow about committing that?
15:08:46amiconnI don't think it's a good idea commiting this, at least not without requiring an extra #define. Users may not expect rockbox to crash because of those bugs. That feature is aimed at developers only
15:09:55[IDC]Dragonbut the more people testing with it, the more bugs get uncovered
15:12:08[IDC]DragonWindows is also not masking access violations
15:14:48LinusNis the access trap non-recoverable?
15:14:55amiconnTrue, but on the other hand, we would need the complete debug info to analyze the report, i.e. the *exact* build version, along with the failure address
15:15:30amiconnAdditionally, a disassembly of that exact version, and the map file are needed (would need to get those from the official build system)
15:16:19amiconnLinusN: with the current implementation it's not, that would require a separate handler function which I didn't bother to write.
15:16:56amiconnAs it is now, invalid accesses trigger an execption (UserBrk), displayed by the default exception handler in rockbox
15:17:05amiconnDid you really never try it?
15:17:26LinusNi did, to verify that my mpeg fix worked
15:17:49LinusNmy question was more like if it can be made recoverable
15:17:50[IDC]Dragonit is still helpful to get a user report how to reproduce it, regardless of map file
15:18:56LinusNi agree
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15:20:05LinusNthe interrupt could send an event, and the default handler could catch it
15:20:18LinusNand display a splash and return
15:21:20[IDC]Dragonbetter wait for a key, to note the address
15:23:21LinusNgotta go
15:23:24LinusNcu guys
15:23:50amiconnLinusN: I think it's recoverable by nature
15:24:14amiconnJust returning from the interrupt should continue the running program
15:24:37amiconnHowever, this leaves the problem how to display a splash while in interrupt state
15:26:28BagderZagor: I've installed enscript on labb now and fixed coloured source with viewcvs on the curl repo
15:32:58LinusNamiconn: that is solved by having the splash in the default event handler
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15:33:58Zagori'm off too
15:34:01 Part Zagor
15:34:42*amiconn doesn't understand how this could work
15:43:13[IDC]Dragonthe irq sends an event into the queue, like a button press within the tick irq
15:44:08[IDC]Dragonthe default handler (running in the foreground context) grabs it and does whatever
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15:47:59amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Hmm, this might actually work, *if* it is possible to have events with parameters.
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15:52:38[IDC]Dragonamiconn: you probably have to store the info somewhere
15:53:59amiconnYes. I just found that events include a data pointer. What to do if several (could be really many) exceptions occur until the default event handler gets called? Only store the last? Have an array (how large?)?
15:56:55[IDC]Dragonsomething simple, like only store and flag an event if the space is empty
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15:59:20bobTHChi all
15:59:47[IDC]Dragonamiconn: and we need your bluescreen code for this
15:59:58[IDC]Dragonhi bobTHC
16:04:33bobTHCiriver dev run amazingly quick
16:05:09bobTHC:) and is a very good news for all
16:05:27amiconn[IDC]Dragon: I think Zagor was right. The display looks very blueish if the contrast is set to maximum with white backlight, especially if grayscale content is displayed. Remember, this was observed after run-away rockbox did all sorts of weird things, including arbitrary changes of other lcd parameters as well (like roll)
16:06:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:08:52bobTHCsweedish wizards always rocks! new dev device, new challenge, and new big amount of work! but nothing is impossible for wizards ;)
16:17:34[IDC]Dragonamiconn: mine looks especially blueish
16:17:45[IDC]Dragonwith high contrast
16:18:03[IDC]Dragonwell, the setting is not really contrast, but bias
16:18:30[IDC]Dragon(why should we lower the contrast on a b/w display?)
16:18:55*[IDC]Dragon has to reboot
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16:27:00*AimVector is away: nfsu2
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16:34:07[IDC]Dragonamiconn: still at work?
16:35:09[IDC]Dragonif you're lucky, you have the board back today
16:35:23[IDC]Dragonelse tomorrow
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18:19:02*[IDC]Dragon goes jome
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21:08:12 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (
21:08:35[IDC]Dragonhi again
21:08:37amiconnhi again
21:08:48Bagderhi again
21:09:22amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Good news! The board arrived today. I already assembled the player, it works :-))
21:09:31[IDC]Dragonwow, great!
21:09:57[IDC]Dragonnow you got work to do?
21:10:18amiconnYup, now comes the fun part
21:10:42[IDC]Dragondinner time
21:45:41[IDC]Dragonback again
21:46:12[IDC]Dragonamiconn: do you need the authoring tool, template and batch file?
21:46:30amiconn[IDC]Dragon: I could need some help with the make_firmware thingy. I built a firmware file, however, firmware_flash.rock refuses to flash it (eBadPlatform)
21:46:50[IDC]Dragonprobably the "platform ID"
21:47:17amiconnYes, I already suspected this. The template file is the original ROM dump, correct?
21:47:37[IDC]Dragonyes, the first 256 byte are sufficient
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21:48:09amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Platform ID is 0xFB, which is 0 in my original ROM. You defined the player platform Id to be 2...
21:48:12[IDC]Dragonand I added a platform ID, byte 0xFB needs to be 0x02
21:48:26amiconnSimply patching that is enough?
21:48:55[IDC]Dragonwhile at it, you should patch a 0x01 into 0xFA
21:49:13amiconnWhat's 0xFA ?
21:49:18[IDC]Dragonvery recent addition: the boot loader version
21:50:06amiconnDo you have uncommitted changes for the flash tools and/ or bootloader?
21:50:06[IDC]Dragonnot mandatory, but makes it possibe to phase out old booloaders
21:50:27[IDC]Dragonjust a convenience batch file to call it
21:50:42[IDC]DragonI patched the templates "by hand"
21:51:09amiconnAlready done, a hex editor is your friend here :)
21:51:15[IDC]Dragonsame here
21:51:40[IDC]Dragonboot loader and tool compilation went OK?
21:52:30amiconnbootloader is sh stuff anyway, and the necessary tools are single source files, easy to compile under cygwin (even to be run outside of cygwin)
21:53:20[IDC]Dragonthe HP power polarity in the bootloader was wrong, I guess?
21:53:58amiconnyes, already corrected. Plus I added the Port C button checking for player, enabling - / Play / +
21:54:30amiconnBtw: That rom dump is funny. While the version word clearly says 506 (and rockbox says 5.06 in the debug menu as well), archos says 5.08 on startup
21:54:56[IDC]DragonI suggest you leave the baudrate for the "emergency boot" at 14400, like the Ondio
21:55:17amiconnI did (though I would really prefer 38400)
21:55:20[IDC]Dragonwhich needs my older uart_boot...
21:55:32[IDC]Dragonfor you experiments, feel free
21:55:45[IDC]DragonI mean, for the distribution
21:55:50amiconnI can always uart_boot, no flash minimon involved
21:56:08[IDC]Dragonmay be handy later
21:56:08amiconn(but then I should test flash minimon...)
21:56:44[IDC]Dragonat the Ondio, I used the "hard" uart boot only once
21:57:06[IDC]Dragonfrom then on, pressing "right" was much more convenient
21:58:12[IDC]Dragonwith my non-intrusive MMC dummy adapter
22:03:52amiconnI did the flash now. Although it seems to have worked (the unit started properly with the archos image, as there is no second image yet), after disconnecting and reconnecting power, the display doesn't work anymore :(
22:04:58[IDC]Dragonstrange, because the Player has no 2nd level loader
22:05:24[IDC]Dragonthe boot rom directly descrambles the final image
22:05:54[IDC]Dragonso the image can't rely on other port inits, etc.
22:06:45***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:06:56amiconnThe archos firmware obviously starts, and loads rockbox from disk. I am even able to play music, just the display doesn't show anything
22:07:19[IDC]DragonI have no clue
22:09:41amiconnEven uart_boot doesn't want to work anymore :((
22:09:44[IDC]Dragonwhy no Rockbox in your image?
22:10:31[IDC]Dragonthat sounds impossible
22:11:02amiconnHangs on "downloading monitor..." forever
22:11:26[IDC]Dragonhard uart_boot, or with keypress?
22:11:56[IDC]Dragonhave you used it today already?
22:12:09amiconnYes, several times.
22:12:21[IDC]Dragonso I didn't break it
22:13:00[IDC]Dragonleave the box off for a longer time
22:13:21[IDC]Dragonmaybe something is very persistant
22:14:16amiconnHmm, now it seems to work again ???
22:14:40[IDC]Dragonmarginal levels?
22:14:59amiconnPowering an open box on&off at will seems to be rather unreliable
22:15:05[IDC]Dragonpower-on sequence box/converter ?
22:18:16amiconnMaybe powering the HD early in the loader causes problems. The player archos image does shutdown immediately if the on button is not pressed at start. So if I connect power, the box (and hd) get powered for a *very* short time
22:18:51amiconnIt works when I connect main power while holding On
22:19:30[IDC]Dragonhmm, what a pity
22:20:06[IDC]Dragonthe recorders also get a current pulse, with their disks being on by h/w default
22:20:23amiconnHow do I calculate the rom start address for the second image? Simply the image size (with only 1 image in), rounded up to sector size?
22:20:27[IDC]Dragonwait, doesn't the boot loader check for external power?
22:20:42amiconnIt does not (yet)
22:20:56[IDC]Dragonah, that might be the main problem
22:21:23[IDC]Dragonimage size: yes
22:21:27amiconnI don't power from the socket, but only by connecting my psu to the battery contacts
22:21:31[IDC]Dragonwant to build rombox?
22:21:39amiconnyes (already did)
22:22:24amiconnLoader and first image only consume 52 KB (already rounded) :)
22:22:26[IDC]Dragonreal precisely, it's image size minus the 4 CRC bytes, rounded up to next sector
22:22:51[IDC]Dragonyes, the player image is very small
22:23:59amiconnTrying rockbox.ucl at first...
22:24:19amiconnWow, quick!
22:24:21[IDC]Dragonat first?
22:25:11amiconnI mean before tryingf rombox.ucl
22:25:52amiconnCold start -> no display :(
22:25:57[IDC]Dragonpeople say, the Player starts pretty quick already, much faster than Recoder?
22:26:16[IDC]Dragon(without flashing, of course)
22:27:01amiconnWell, the startup itself is quicker than non-flashed recorder, but clearly slower than flashed recorder. Plus, you have to hold "On" rather long before it starts to boot
22:27:12[IDC]Dragonbut you already had cold-started display, with uart_boot?
22:27:58amiconnMaybe the startup is too fast here, leaving no time for the lcd controller to get ready
22:30:27amiconnNo, really. I think that could be possible (perhaps some slow reset circuit)
22:31:37amiconnHmm. Archos (started via "-" + On) works when I disconnect the serial converter power
22:32:21amiconnBtw, that is the cause for the lcd controller holding data eternally. As long as the serial converter is powered, it feeds a little power through the serial line(s)
22:32:25[IDC]Dragonelse not?
22:33:05amiconnNo (how?)
22:33:39[IDC]DragonI meant "Archos (started via "-" + On) works when I disconnect the serial converter power" with else not?
22:34:12amiconnRockbox now also works (that dreaded power off&on again too fast problem)
22:36:03amiconnI really have to keep the dc power disconnected long enough to ensure a proper start afterwards
22:37:30amiconnBuffer: 1.830 MB :) (rombox)
22:37:48[IDC]Dragona new record, I think
22:38:28amiconnNo, I have 1.845 MB on my Ondio (minimized max_files_per_dir and max_playlist_size)
22:38:28[IDC]Dragondo you want a 5.08 dump, for the "official" release?
22:38:53amiconnIs that the .bin you already sent me? It's identical to mine...
22:39:08[IDC]DragonI've sent you one?
22:40:04amiconnYes, 10 days ago. That was the one I tested booting archos via uart_boot with
22:40:20[IDC]Dragonmy 5.08 player ucl is 48403 bytes
22:40:38[IDC]Dragon5.06 is 48393 bytes
22:41:33amiconn48403 bytes here, too. That's the one that says "5.08" on boot, but has the version field set to 506...
22:42:17amiconnOtherwise firmware_flash wouldn't work. It checks for <= 506
22:42:42[IDC]Dragonthe version field has to stay, for players
22:42:53[IDC]Dragonkind of our hardware mask
22:42:59amiconnYes I know.
22:43:21amiconnHmm, sometimes it works and sometimes not. Maybe the delay loops aren't unnecessary after all?
22:44:17[IDC]Dragonthe extracted image has no version field, only the memory dump has
22:44:31amiconnI wanted to do the same you did with your distribution images
22:44:46[IDC]Dragonwhich is?
22:44:49amiconnErm, ignore this. I was way scrolled up
22:46:33amiconnAh, right. The version info is in the dump. My dump says 506, however, the image extracted from that compresses to 48403 bytes, and says 5.08 at boot
22:47:19[IDC]Dragonyes, this is a bit "decoupled", found that with other images, too
22:48:47amiconnHmm, rockbox doesn't properly init the display if it's started "really cold", i.e. with connecting battery power. If I start archos first in that case, rockbox does work later on. Maybe there is a hardware init that needs to be only done when connecting battery power?
22:50:22[IDC]Dragondunno, can you test this "really cold" with uart_boot, too?
22:51:03amiconnWith uart_boot, rockbox coldstart always works
22:51:33amiconnGrr, n
22:51:51amiconnow it worked!?
22:53:02amiconnBtw, I noticed I need to init the backlight port bit to output. As it is now, the backlight is always on
22:54:40amiconnIt's really a power problem. I need to wait at least 30 secs before I can expect it to start properly
22:56:57amiconnMinimon works too (flashing red led)
22:57:55amiconn-spindown doesn't work
22:58:30[IDC]Dragonthat code is not suitable for Player
22:59:09amiconnYes, I suspected that. The bootloader now spins the disk, but minimon is not able to stop it...
22:59:21[IDC]Dragonin uart_boot, I mean
22:59:45amiconnIt's just setting port bits I guess?
22:59:54[IDC]Dragonminimon is innocent
23:00:01[IDC]Dragonand dumb
23:00:14amiconn..and sometimes deaf ;-)
23:00:36[IDC]Dragonit once was an ATA command, but now is a port bit
23:01:41amiconnuart_boot already has an option to distinguish player from recorders, -r
23:01:59[IDC]Dragonyes, the spindown code needs an if()
23:02:03amiconnThat could be used to use the different power down for players
23:02:36amiconnI'd have to figure how to compile uart_boot on cygwin, as it uses multiple source files
23:03:10[IDC]Dragondo a make file
23:03:34amiconnYes... if only I knew more about those beasts :-/
23:06:06[IDC]DragonI can try to export a makefile
23:06:39amiconnYes, that might be a starting point (no msvc either here or at work)
23:08:00 Quit scott666_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:09:54[IDC]Dragongives a complicated file...
23:10:34amiconnDo you have an idea whether the might be no_rom players?
23:11:03[IDC]DragonI doubt it, but don't know
23:12:07amiconnI should not build a _norom.bin without being able to test it.
23:12:17[IDC]Dragonmail on the way
23:12:50amiconnThe cvs uart_boot is 14400 baud?
23:13:02[IDC]Dragonagreed, let a user report no_rom first
23:13:11[IDC]Dragon14400, yes
23:13:30[IDC]DragonI should make a switch
23:19:09amiconnI get loads of undefined references:
23:19:25amiconn_SLEEP, _GET_LAST_ERR, _Sleep
23:20:08[IDC]Dragonprobably some Win32 libraries missing
23:20:13amiconnAh, needed to add -mno-cygwin :)
23:21:35[IDC]DragonI'm adding your power-down now
23:22:16amiconnI should commit that rather crude makefile. uart_boot is currently windows only anyway.
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23:26:24 Quit scott666_ (Client Quit)
23:26:54[IDC]Dragonwant a spindown uart_boot?
23:28:08 Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection)
23:28:20amiconncompiling with -Wall throws a number of warnings (int format mixup, an unused variable)
23:28:52[IDC]Dragondo you get an .exe?
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23:29:36amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Interested in the warnings?
23:30:18[IDC]Dragonlet me try level 4 here
23:30:24amiconnspindown version: yes please, for a first test. Already committed?
23:30:35amiconnlevel 4 ??
23:30:56amiconnBtw, all warnings belong to client.c
23:31:19[IDC]Dragonlevel 4 means most picky compiler
23:31:36[IDC]DragonI don't get any meaningful here
23:31:51amiconngcc -O -W -Wall -mno-cygwin uart_boot.c client.c flash.c uart_win.c -o uart_boot
23:31:51amiconnclient.c: In function `ConfigFirstlevelPlayer':
23:31:51amiconnclient.c:18: warning: int format, long unsigned int arg (arg 2)
23:31:51DBUGEnqueued KICK amiconn
23:31:51amiconnclient.c:27: warning: int format, long unsigned int arg (arg 2)
23:31:51amiconnclient.c: In function `ConfigFirstlevelRecorder':
23:31:51***Alert Mode level 1
23:31:51amiconnclient.c:51: warning: int format, long unsigned int arg (arg 2)
23:31:53amiconnclient.c:69: warning: int format, long unsigned int arg (arg 2)
23:31:55amiconnclient.c: In function `DownloadByte':
23:31:57amiconnclient.c:81: warning: unused variable `bRecorder'
23:31:59amiconnclient.c: In function `DownloadArchosMonitor':
23:32:15amiconnclient.c:233: warning: int format, long unsigned int arg (arg 2)
23:33:22amiconnProbably all those printf()'s need %ud instead of %d
23:34:28amiconnDoesn't work either (slightly changed warning though)
23:34:42[IDC]Dragonjust %u
23:35:32[IDC]Dragonor something like %ul
23:35:36amiconn-> client.c:18: warning: unsigned int format, long unsigned int arg (arg 2)
23:36:39amiconnIt's %lu
23:37:16amiconnCould you check with msvc?
23:37:54[IDC]Dragonthe compiler doesn't check, you only know at runtime
23:38:16amiconnWhat about that unised variable?
23:38:29[IDC]Dragonhe's right
23:38:34 Join AciD [0] (
23:39:26[IDC]Dragon%lu should be correct
23:41:12amiconnNow it compiles without warning, and it works :)
23:41:52***Alert Mode OFF
23:43:29[IDC]DragonI'll commit client.c and the spindown
23:43:33amiconnI have a number of changes (many files had no final line feed)
23:43:53[IDC]Dragonthen you go first ;-)
23:44:42[IDC]Dragontell me when I should merge
23:46:29[IDC]Dragonme too
23:46:56[IDC]Dragonplease update uart_boot.c
23:47:29[IDC]Dragonoops, I committed the 38400 baud
23:47:38amiconnI just wanted to ask...
23:48:15[IDC]Dragonthis will not work for the builtin minimon
23:48:20amiconnThe new version has many changes against the old...
23:48:38[IDC]Dragonthe test function is different
23:49:05[IDC]DragonI was playing with a memory test, for Jake's box
23:49:13 Join matsl [0] (
23:49:21amiconnSticky bit box
23:49:27 Quit mecraw_ ("Trillian (")
23:49:36[IDC]Dragonyes, but it wasn't the DRAM
23:50:29amiconnI can only test spindown with the builtin minimon, as the boot rom does not spin the disk
23:50:50[IDC]Dragonobvious, yes
23:51:15[IDC]Dragonthere's 2 places with a 38400
23:51:27 Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:51:47 Join AciD` [0] (
23:52:25[IDC]Dragon-b is already taken, for a baudrate option
23:52:29amiconn[IDC]Dragon: 4 new warnings :(
23:52:46amiconnuart_boot.c: In function `main':
23:52:46amiconnuart_boot.c:381: warning: comparison between signed and unsigned
23:52:46amiconnuart_boot.c:402: warning: comparison between signed and unsigned
23:52:46amiconnuart_boot.c:424: warning: comparison between signed and unsigned
23:52:47***Alert Mode level 1
23:52:47***Alert Mode level 2
23:52:47amiconnuart_boot.c:441: warning: comparison between signed and unsigned
23:52:47[IDC]Dragonprinf's, let me guess
23:53:32[IDC]Dragondifferent, aha
23:53:46[IDC]Dragonperhaps I should remove that memory test
23:54:00[IDC]Dragonand place a baudrate switch there
23:54:47amiconnIirc the minimon understands a command to set the baud rate. Couldn't you use that?
23:55:15[IDC]Dragonlike the init does, too
23:55:35amiconnSo the builtin minimon does 14400 by default, but uart_boot allows to switch to 38400 if desired

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