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#rockbox log for 2004-11-23

00:03:10matslits displayed under debug.
00:04:28matsl5.06 is displayed on boot.
00:05:04amiconnOk, thanks.
00:05:25amiconnWould you mind to do a small test?
00:06:14matslif i can. i'm off to bed soon.
00:06:57amiconnI tried to employ hardware disk poweroff on the players, to get more runtime. While this works on my player without problems (5.06/5.08), it doesn't work on Linus' player (4.53/4.53).
00:07:25amiconnHis player shuts down as soon as it tries to spin up the disk again, to save settings
00:08:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:08:55matslis it in CVS or do you have a patch?
00:09:01amiconnI'd ask you to do the following: Load a rockbox build on your player which allows enabling that option. Start it, go to the menu, *wait until the disk spun down, to be safe*, then reset the settings and set HD powerdown to on
00:09:55amiconnIt's "almost" in cvs, you merely have to add #define HAVE_ATA_POWER_OFF to config-player.h
00:10:38amiconnIf you then leave the menu and try to play some music, it might work - or poweroff (and not save the settings) - when trying to spinup again.
00:10:51matslok. I can't do it tonight i'm afraid. maybe tomorrow.
00:11:43amiconnThis is why I said *wait until...*, because if you don't, it might be that this setting gets saved... however, this would still be recoverable, without soldering
00:12:44matslwithout soldering, huh, sounds interesting ;-)
00:14:44amiconnI mean, if this wrong setting gets saved, and your box has the same problem as Linus', it would shutdown as soon as it tries to spin up the disk again, not allowing you to save the correct setting again. However, this would be solvable by using the archos USB mode to put a rockbox build without that patch in again, the resetting the settings
00:15:41matslok. i'll try to look at it tomorrow.
00:15:55amiconnNice :)
00:16:28matsli hope so ;-)
00:16:42 Quit matsl ("Leaving")
00:21:51*[IDC]Dragon says nite, too
00:22:11 Quit [IDC]Dragon ()
00:24:07amiconnLinusN: What do you think about my oldplayer vs. newplayer version findings? Where did the 4.51 come from, back in time?
00:25:05LinusNi don't remember actually
00:25:21LinusNguesswork, i think
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02:08:18***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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02:19:11jennfrayQuestion... Do all of the archos Jukeboxes use the same power unit/adapter for recharging?
02:24:06amiconnThe players and V1 recorders use a 9V 600mA adapter, while the FM and V2 recorders use a 6V 700mA adapter
02:24:18amiconn(unregulated, center positive)
02:24:31 Join jodel [0] (
02:25:57jennfrayIs there a place to get a cheap charger for the V2 recorders, or should I just get the official one from Archos?
02:28:39amiconnHmm. I think you can just pick a cheap charger with the required parameters (although that may void the warranty), but where to get one depends on where you live.
02:29:00jennfrayI'm guessing radio shack might have it.
02:29:49jennfrayWhat about the Multimedia 20 gig. Is that charger different than the V2 recorder one?
02:29:58amiconnI have no idea
02:30:44jennfrayok, thanks for your help
02:32:15amiconnOn the archos website it looks like they are compatible
02:33:20 Quit mecraw_ ("Trillian (")
02:35:05jennfrayYes, I just looked. It looks liek the Jukebox Multimedia uses the same as the FM recorder.
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03:52:23bagawkanyone awake?
04:08:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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04:28:24void_amiconn: you here?
04:31:34void_hrm anyone know what to do when you get read access errors ? I decharged it and fully charged, I reformatted, the leads look ok, I'm not sure what to do now
04:31:43void_changed the battiers
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06:08:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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08:54:01LinusNamiconn: i'm about to commit the metronome tap patch
08:54:17LinusNbut i'm not sure which key to use for the ondio
08:54:44LinusNup/down is used for the menu, left/right for the tempo
08:54:53LinusNoff is used to leave
08:55:05LinusNand menu is used for play/pause
08:55:11LinusNhehe, morning :-)
08:55:44chendobutton combo!
08:56:24LinusNone could change pause to be MENU|REPEAT
08:56:35LinusNand use MENU for the tapping
08:57:23amiconn..or use some clever algorith
08:58:06amiconnAn no, wouldn't work :(
08:58:26 Join Zagor [242] (
08:58:34 Join AciD [0] (~gni@acid.user)
08:58:44Zagorhappy birthday bagder
08:59:20void_amiconn: I checked the leads on my player and they seem to be ok
08:59:35void_not really sure what else to check for
08:59:42void_I bought brand new batteries
09:00:07void_charged them to full it worked then with about half way power I kept on getting read errors
09:00:19void_then I charged to full again and it still does it
09:00:39void_and USB doesn't work on it
09:02:08amiconnvoid_: What harddsik model do you have? (check under Debug->View disk info). What rockbox version did you run before 2.3?
09:02:35void_I can't get into it
09:02:41void_I ran a cvs version I think
09:02:41amiconnLinusN: Imho there are a number of options:
09:03:20amiconn(1) Do what you suggested (short/long menu). That would make the normal use a bit more cumbersome (long menu for start/stop)
09:04:00amiconn(2) Start-Stop = short Menu as now, Tap = Menu+Right, i.e. one would hold menu, then tap with the Right button
09:04:45LinusNamiconn: (1) would only use long press to stop, and short to start again
09:04:53amiconn(3) Move volume from Up/Don to Menu+Left/Right (a bit unobvious). Then there are 2 free buttons
09:07:15amiconnI think your (1+) suggestion might be not too bad after all.
09:07:50amiconnJust change the info string accordingly (pause: menu...) to indicate long menu
09:08:01LinusNI think i'll go for that, it's the least intrusive option
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10:08:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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11:40:21[IDC]Dragonamiconn: do you read?
11:56:38amiconn[IDC]Dragon: I am here
11:57:54[IDC]DragonI'm close to buy a "real" MMC card
11:58:27[IDC]Dragonin your datasheet studies, have you found a feature or so which I should care about?
11:59:46amiconnMy MMC driver doesn't use any special feature (that would not work on all cards).
12:00:30[IDC]DragonI also mean, like spped in an external reader
12:00:31amiconnThere is a nice feature (in Hitachi cards iirc) - read/ write multiple blocks with a predefined count. This eliminates the need for the special end sequence
12:01:02amiconnIf you can, you may look for a card with short access times
12:01:41amiconnSo far all cards that I got reports for support the full 20 MBit/s transfer speed (25 MBit/s for SD cards)
12:02:36[IDC]Dragonso they would be faster in an external (USB2) reader
12:04:11amiconnYou can use your Ondio as MMC tester. The access times to look for are Tsac, Nsac and R2W factor
12:04:42[IDC]Dragonnot suitable for mail order...
12:08:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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14:08:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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15:42:38amiconn[IDC]Dragon: r u there?
15:44:24amiconnDo you have a collection of different player rom dumps?
15:44:36[IDC]DragonI have some, yes
15:45:20amiconnBtw, I checked the latest archos player fw: it uses the ata power port bit regardless whether old or new player, but only uses that info for the lcd differences
15:45:38 Join webguest66 [0] (
15:45:58[IDC]Dragonso the bit is not "harmful" on others
15:46:09amiconn[IDC]Dragon: I would be interested in these dumps, especially if you have oldplayer dumps
15:46:20[IDC]Dragonthe LCD, you certainly need to know
15:46:35[IDC]DragonI can email them this evening
15:46:37webguest66I was wondering if I could help with the iriver port? and what would be usefull for me to do
15:46:56LinusNwebguest66: programmer?
15:47:35webguest66yep I work in the automotive sector
15:47:51LinusNdo you know dsp stuff?
15:47:52webguest66c,c and some java
15:48:08[IDC]Dragonyou can do the car stereo adapter ;-)
15:48:43webguest66well I can design and build BMW adapters to tiy in with the exsisting controls whe a buss is used
15:49:17 Join ripnet [0] (
15:49:30Zagoris the bwm bus protocol public?
15:50:04*Zagor is waiting for a Mini Cooper, with bmw stereo
15:50:22BagderCD only or cassette?
15:50:37Zagorand aux in, amazingly
15:50:43*Bagder faints
15:51:21webguest66yes and no depending on car and age depends on the buss and how it is used and what is tyed in to it i.e. on hier end modles the frount panell is a bus enabled device that can comunicat with any devive on other modles it is still hard whired
15:52:02[IDC]Dragonamiconn: I have the ROM dumps on my box. Do you want them now?
15:52:14webguest66but the basic protocalls are public but the exact flavor and set up varys a lot
15:52:32Zagorwebguest66: ok
15:54:06[IDC]Dragonamiconn: I can offer 3.18, 4.09, 4.53, 5.05, 5.06, 5.08
15:54:26amiconn[IDC]Dragon: It's sufficient to have them available in the evening ;) Basically I want to check how the version checks and lcd control routines vary between versions
15:54:46amiconnYou can leave out 5.08, as I already have that
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15:56:17[IDC]Dragonsome are already unpacked, some not
15:57:23amiconnThe extract tool compiles fine under cygwin, so np
16:03:00webguest66so is the progres indicator on the wiki upto date?
16:03:46Bagderyou mean for iRiver? I believe it is
16:04:59webguest66yep that is what I ment
16:08:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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16:17:32ripnethas PaulS reappeared? his tests booting code on an unmodded iRiver looked very hopeful
16:18:52BagderI don't know
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19:49:10bobTHCdo you think it's possible to add a fonction to the playlist manager to mix all track in the playlist to increase the "always play same track" of the ramdom algorithm
19:52:22bobTHCbecause i love use big ramdomize playlist and it's oddly always the same tracks played...
19:57:40bobTHCor perhaps it's better to use a "already played flag" to skip the "always play same track"....
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20:36:24amiconnbobTHC: What do you mean? The playlist shuffle algorithm *is* designed in a way that all tracks of the list are played in a random order, but no track is played twice.
20:41:23amiconnWhat rockbox version do you run? If it is 2.3, then this may be the problem. There were some bugs in the playlist handling that were fixed just some days ago. I suggest installing a daily build
20:50:16bobTHCoki thanx for, i'll go download it now :)
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21:54:53bobTHCbye all
21:54:54 Part bobTHC
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22:08:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:15:59 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (
22:19:04amiconnhi again, [IDC]Dragon
22:19:28[IDC]Dragonbusy disassembling?
22:20:12amiconnNo? I didn't get your mail yet. In fact, I did not get any mail today, and the t-online mail server either timeouts or gives pop3 errors :(
22:20:42[IDC]Dragonoh, I sent it like 2.5 hours ago
22:21:21amiconnI just tested my ata init retry idea - works fine, both on player & recorder :) It only retries when starting from archos charging screen :))
22:21:38amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Firewall?
22:22:03[IDC]Dragonbut DCC has worked, in rare cases
22:22:37amiconnYou can send it to my other (quite new) mail account (pm)
22:57:06amiconn[IDC]Dragon: A question regarding io_address_detect(), as you changed this to use the hw mask:
22:57:37amiconnAre you sure that *all* players have io_address == 0x300 ?
22:58:14[IDC]DragonI can never be sure, but nobody complained(?)
22:59:05amiconnOkay, that's what I thought too.
23:01:06amiconnATA retry committed
23:03:00 Quit methangas (" HydraIRC -> <- Chicks dig it")
23:03:34[IDC]Dragonooks good
23:05:28amiconnI've seen that you added the Ondio to the port pin tables. This info could now be removed from the Ondio topic.
23:05:55[IDC]Dragonnot fully, the comments are not in the other
23:06:32amiconnI'm thinking of adding a hardware mask table, but I'm not sure whether to add this to the port pin topic, or to a separate topic
23:06:32[IDC]Dragonor do you consider them outdated, redundant ?
23:07:49amiconnMost of them could be removed imho. A few should be kept, possibly within the port pin table.
23:08:46amiconnThe port pin table also does not list the possible variations as with the other devices (PA12 may be swapped according to the mask, Samsung vs. Philips tuner etc)
23:10:42amiconnImho longer comments/ descriptions in the port pin tables should be moved to footnotes anyway. The tables are quite wide now, I get double-line tables cells even on my hi-res screen (1400x1050)
23:12:01[IDC]Dragonperhaps, but footnotes are also hard to read
23:15:11amiconnI don't think so. The table should give you a quick overview, and the footnotes would contain more details. They could also be linked.
23:18:45amiconnAlternatively, the details could be put into the table cell after a line break and marked with <small> tags.
23:19:24[IDC]Dragonfeel free to improve :-)
23:25:04amiconnI'm not sure whether I should hold back the player flash package until Linus got around doing some tests... I don't want to break someones player
23:25:30[IDC]DragonI know that feeling
23:25:50[IDC]Dragonwe could restrict it to new players for now
23:26:50[IDC]Dragonbtw, you didn't dare to change that detection, to your findings?
23:27:33amiconnI just did not do it yet. I'll probably do after checking the other versions' disassemblies
23:31:10amiconnI could try booting my player with the older newplayer firmwares... uart_boot of course
23:33:46amiconnJust as another check whether the archos firmware is hardware version dependent (other than old vs new player).
23:34:07[IDC]Dragonyou can also rolo it
23:34:10 Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:34:32[IDC]Dragonor ucl-flash it
23:34:42amiconnRolo would require the update versions of the firmware, instead of the flash images (?)
23:34:56amiconnPlus, it would not test the cold start ability
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23:35:10[IDC]Dragonno, the image contains an ajz
23:35:20amiconnucl-flashing would be an option, yes.
23:36:18amiconnI remember that you said some time ago that the firmware version extracted from a rom image is not identical to a disk update version with the same version number. Perhaps I remember wrong?
23:36:45[IDC]Dragonno, this is correct
23:37:19[IDC]Dragonthe disk update version is probably stripped by the inits
23:38:01[IDC]Dragonmeaning, you can rolo (or disk-boot) a rom version, but should not flash a disk version
23:38:19amiconnAh ok. Just wanted to ask that :)
23:43:14 Join gromit [0] (
23:45:04 Join LinusN [0] (
23:45:21LinusNamiconn: latest cvs works fine on my oldplayer
23:45:38LinusNyou want me to uart boot it?
23:45:42amiconnLinusN: coldstarted via uart?
23:46:18amiconnYes. If possible, please try uart booting both latest cvs rockbox, and latest archos.bin (5.08)
23:46:25LinusNi haven't prepared it for uart booting
23:46:58LinusNand i don't have time for it tonight
23:47:20amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Old/newplayer version checks are identical in all 5.x archos version. 4.53 doesnt check for that strange 1.16, and older versions do no checks at all (surprise ;) )
23:48:01[IDC]DragonLinusN: perhaps you can rolo the 5.08 flash version, that's a quick check
23:49:19amiconnLinusN: The fact that latest cvs rockbox is working means the added inits don't break anything, but it doesn't mean they do all they should :-/
23:52:48amiconnLinusN: Testing the archos 5.08 flash version with rolo might be a good idea after all
23:53:29LinusNwill do
23:53:46LinusNamiconn: did you want my original scans of the different archos models?
23:54:19[IDC]DragonLinusN: you probably need 5.08.ajz from one of us then?
23:54:55amiconnYes please. I'm thinking of doing a bit of simulator work, adding Eric's patch for using different images (player/recorder/Ondio). Want to use high quality images :)
23:55:21amiconn.mod of course
23:55:22LinusNamiconn: they are huge :-)
23:56:13amiconnYeah, of course I will scale them down. I just expect scans to have no geometric distortions, opposite from photos
23:56:49amiconnLinusN: dcc?
23:57:29LinusNamiconn: each scan is 5M
23:57:48[IDC]DragonJens, what do you plan with them?
23:57:58amiconnLinusN: Send it to my new mail address (pm)
23:58:55amiconn[IDC]Dragon: See above

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