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#rockbox log for 2004-12-09

00:11:31 Join Cassandra [0] (
00:12:59CassandraCan anyone tell me what "start tapping the tempo" means in the context of the metronome?
00:13:17*Bagder has never used it
00:13:29Zagorit means you can decide the tempo by tapping a button instead of entering a bpm value
00:13:46CassandraOh, right. Thanks.
00:16:26***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:17:03CassandraRight, that's all amicon's comments dealt with.
00:17:41CassandraI'm not sure whether to hug him or to kick him in the kidneys until he stops screaming.
00:17:58BagderI suggest you do both ;-)
00:18:10CassandraThat works for me.
00:19:03CassandraHe may have found lots of problems, but on the other hand he complained because some of the plugins do have the Ondio keys documented and I said I'd not documented them.
00:19:37CassandraI'm damn well not going to take out the Ondio keys if they're there already.
00:19:41BagderI noticed
00:20:00BagderI say leave them in, they don't hurt anyone
00:20:23Zagori think a note "some aspects of the ondio-specific documentation are not complete" or something to that effect is fully sufficient
00:20:39CassandraOh, I'd already come to that conclusion. Better for me, better for Amiconn's kidneys. Everyone wins.
00:23:58 Join webguest81 [0] (
00:25:48Zagorboo, i just noticed the iriver has a rather loud background noise
00:26:05CassandraOh just a thought for the future, but there are too many different interfaces.
00:26:23CassandraI'm really not sure how to document 4 different key mappings.
00:27:02CassandraSplitting the manual is an option, but that would be hell to maintain.
00:27:19amiconnCassandra: I only mentioned the Ondio keys being documented for one plugin. I certainly did not complain
00:27:31CassandraMaking architecture specific supplements might work, but that's way too confusing for the end user.
00:28:02CassandraI assume the iRiver has an entirely new and different user interface.
00:28:25Zagorthe basic gui will be the same, but the button layout is different of course
00:28:55CassandraI am yet to come up with a good solution to this problem.
00:30:00amiconnMaybe it is possible to preprocess the manual, like the source code handles the differences?
00:30:50Zagorit probably will be difficult to mix processing with wysiwyg editing
00:31:23Zagorunless openoffice has some provision for inserting xml markers in the gui
00:31:52 Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:31:52*Cassandra nods. XML has a basic inside it, so it's theoretically doable.
00:32:23CassandraI'm seriously hoping ooo 2.0 comes out before the next release. Gods that s/w is terrible.
00:32:31 Join AciD [0] (~gni@acid.user)
00:32:54CassandraOh, what's the little black thing atop the Ondio SP, and where is the mode button hidden on the FM?
00:33:16amiconnLittle black thing?
00:33:41CassandraOn the left hand side of the picture on the website at the top, near the mode button.
00:33:48ZagorFM has the same button layout as regular recorders
00:34:05*Cassandra has decided to deign to document the buttons for Ondio users.
00:34:09amiconnAh that thing! It's the earphone socket
00:34:16CassandraSince the flood gates are already open.
00:34:34CassandraHow're your kidneys btw, amiconn?
00:34:57amiconnThe Ondio FM has 2 such "things": The second one at the right top is line in
00:35:15 Quit midk ("just STOP it arspy")
00:36:21Cassandrabut where's the FMs mode button. I can see it on the top of the SP, but the FM doesn't seem to have one.
00:36:29amiconnIt's not visible in the picture in the device comparison chart, because of different perspectives. The Ondio FM pic is a photo, while the Ondio SP pic is a scan, like all the jukebox pictures
00:36:42amiconnThe Button at the top is the On/Off button
00:36:55CassandraAH, right.
00:37:48amiconnThe "Mode" (alias "Option") button is the one below & left of the Left/Right/Up/Down "cross"
00:38:04amiconnButton layout is identical for FM and SP
00:38:08CassandraI like the idea of conditionally coding the manual. It'd also make it shorter.
00:38:21CassandraThink I'll do that when I add the Ondio properly.
00:38:51amiconnYes, the end user version for a specific model would certainly become shorter
00:39:04CassandraOh, right. Don't mind my confusion. Must be the gruelling workload getting to me.
00:40:17CassandraArgh - although it makes page formatting a total sod thinking about it.
00:40:35CassandraOos widow and orphan control is ... none existent.
00:41:06CassandraMight have to live with some ragged edges.
00:41:10amiconnThat might be difficult indeed. I don't know for sure if it would be easier using TeX either...
00:41:54CassandraYou know, I think it would, but recoding that whole f***ing manual in TeX. You'd have to pay me.
00:44:06Zagori'm off to bed
00:44:07 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
00:44:54amiconnCassandra: I just checked, Oo does have widow and orphan control, even with adjustable line count
00:45:40CassandraWell it doesn't f***ing work then.
00:46:11CassandraEither that or I'm a total muppet and just didn't turn it on.
00:47:41amiconnWell, I dunno if they just added it recently (Oo 1.1.3 on Windows here). It's in the paragraph format settings, and afaics it is off by default
00:48:10 Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:49:27 Quit webguest81 ("CGI:IRC")
00:51:25CassandraI think I remember the problem.
00:51:33CassandraIt gets ignored for tables.
00:52:24CassandraAnyway got to go. Take care.
00:52:28 Quit Cassandra ()
01:01:52 Quit scott666_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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01:02:49 Part scott666_
01:09:31 Quit mecraw___ ("Trillian (")
02:05:13 Quit Stryke` ("Friends don't let friends listen to Anti-Flag")
02:16:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:57:08 Join amiconn_ [0] (
04:05:43 Join Hoho [0] (
04:09:40 Quit Headie (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:14:11 Join webguest50 [0] (
04:14:40 Quit amiconn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:14:40 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (
04:14:54 Quit webguest50 (Client Quit)
04:15:12 Quit MooMaunder (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:16:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:22:46 Join midk [0] (
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06:11:31 Quit scott666_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
06:16:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:03:57 Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
07:13:00 Quit midk ("just STOP it arspy")
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07:32:55 Quit Ka_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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08:16:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:49:27 Join AciD [0] (~gni@acid.user)
08:49:36 Quit adi|hotel ("Chatzilla 0.9.66 [Mozilla rv:1.7.5/20041107]")
08:52:12 Quit AciD (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
08:52:40 Join AciD [0] (~gni@acid.user)
08:58:15 Join Zagor [242] (
09:01:19 Join oxygen77 [0] (
09:01:48 Part oxygen77 ("Cho")
10:12:14 Join quelsaruk [0] (~kvirc@
10:12:21quelsarukgood morning
10:12:44*Bagder appears as well
10:16:35***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:32:40 Join oxygen77 [0] (
10:35:22 Quit quelsaruk (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
10:35:44 Join unholiest [0] (~kvirc@
10:35:46 Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
10:35:50 Nick unholiest is now known as quelsaruk (~kvirc@
10:50:34 Join MooMaunder [0] (~me@
10:51:43oxygen77who has installed the cgi web based client on rockbox site?
10:54:07 Join AciD [0] (~gni@acid.user)
10:54:15Bagderzagor has
10:54:26oxygen77k thx
10:54:50oxygen77do you know if something special has to be done to remove dead clients
10:55:09Zagorno, they are killed automatically
10:55:37Zagori'm guessing apache has a timeout
10:56:33oxygen77cause we have some dead web clients staying in our Chan
10:56:42oxygen77maybe they are not dead :)
11:01:03*quelsaruk looks to himself
11:01:08quelsarukno, not me :)
11:02:46Zagori don't think it dies until the connection truly goes down (as in when the user closes the window). so they could be away from keyboard for a long time but still not dead
11:03:24oxygen77yup, that's what I think
11:04:06oxygen77I just wanted to be sure, I won't have a chan full of bad cgi:irc client
11:04:20oxygen77thx Zagor
11:07:54 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (
11:17:16quelsarukmorning [IDC]Dragon
11:30:36amiconnhi [IDC]Dragon
11:30:47 Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
11:32:08[IDC]DragonHi amiconn
11:42:20 Join darkskiez [0] (
11:46:58 Quit quelsaruk ("Reboot? let's try this command :)")
11:48:43 Join AciD [0] (~gni@acid.user)
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12:02:47 Quit AciD (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
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12:09:18 Join Ka [0] (
12:12:09*oxygen77 is away: chui pas là
12:16:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:25:06 Nick quelsaruk is now known as Quel|away (~kvirc@
12:59:03 Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
13:03:42 Quit Seed (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
13:05:00Zagor"The first act, 'allocating a new data structure of a certain size,' is expressed in UNIX RCU and Linux RCU by a single line of nearly identical code." −− SCO court filing
13:05:35[IDC]Dragonp = malloc(n) ?
13:05:45Zagoryeah. shocking, isn't it?
13:06:19Zagori'd like to see a multi-line alloc call...
13:06:28[IDC]Dragonor rather p = malloc(sizeof(*p))
13:07:11[IDC]Dragongood that you've voted against malloc in Rockbox ;-)
13:11:19darkskiezwhat are you using instead?
13:11:33Zagornothing. we don't allocate.
13:11:53darkskiezI see.
13:12:11darkskiezso, what about for the song database and the like?
13:12:14Zagorwe use static buffers for everything. very predictable = very reliable
13:13:46Zagorthe song database will use the same static buffer as the directory browser
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13:27:01 Nick Quel|away is now known as quelsaruk (~kvirc@
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13:41:04 Quit Ka (
13:42:00NJoinKa [0] (
13:50:07 Join AciD [0] (~gni@acid.user)
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14:16:40***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:23:58*oxygen77 is back (gone 02:11:48)
14:25:47 Nick OC_work is now known as OC (
14:56:33 Join LinusN [0] (
14:57:27Bagderhi LinusN
15:00:47 Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
15:02:00 Join AciD [0] (~gni@acid.user)
15:05:32 Join Seed [0] (ben@
15:25:48*LinusN is very busy fixing bugs at work
15:30:26BagderLinusN thinks he can fool us that easily
15:30:38Bagderw know he sits there with his legs up sipping coffee
15:30:41Bagderwe know
15:30:46darkskiezthats what i'm doing at work
15:30:57*Bagder runs off
15:31:00darkskiezmy boss is in hostpital as his newborn baby isnt well.
15:31:07darkskiezand i've got nothing to do.
15:32:27LinusNlucky you
15:33:04darkskiezi'm really depressed
15:34:00darkskiezDell were selling Xeon 2.4Ghz Servers 256Mb Ram SCSI RAID 80Gb for £99/eu150/$180 this morning and when I just called up to order the had sold their last 1800th one scince 9:30 this morning.
15:34:53darkskiezWhat really sad is I've never been so depressed,
15:34:58darkskiezexcept when i bought a dab radio.
15:50:40quelsarukgood afternoon LinusN
15:51:13quelsarukdarkskiez: really?? :O
15:51:23quelsaruki want one of those
15:54:10darkskiezquelsaruk, i got a adapt perstel dr-200, rubbish rubbish rubbish.
15:55:28darkskiezto listen to dab you had to put the antenna at full, struggle to get a multiplex, and stand very very still.
15:58:03darkskiezthe one good thing it did was prompt me to replace it with an iriver.
15:59:40 Join amiconn_ [0] (
16:00:49quelsarukgmmmss.. i'm lost, as usual :)
16:08:13 Quit amiconn (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
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16:16:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:30:49 Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:41:51 Quit quelsaruk ("KVIrc 'System Virtue'")
16:41:51 Nick darkskiez is now known as Acid (
16:42:04 Nick Acid is now known as darkskiez (
16:43:06Zagorhow come your client is always disconnecting?
16:44:45darkskiezi tried /ignore and xchat doesnt bloody ignore channel joins/parts
16:49:40 Join AciD [0] (~gni@acid.user)
16:51:42 Part Zagor
16:54:52 Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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16:58:57darkskiezwho admins acid
16:59:03 Quit Bagder (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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17:06:45LinusNAciD: you keep connecting and disconnecting
17:08:16AciDyes, that's really annoying
17:08:36AciDit happens since my bro re-installed the server....under windows
17:09:21LinusNour irc logs are cluttered with your disconnects, it's really annoying
17:10:54 Join mecraw___ [0] (~lmarlow@
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17:25:54*oxygen77 is away: chui pas là
17:43:49 Quit AciD (Client Quit)
17:45:20*darkskiez cries
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18:14:38*oxygen77 is back (gone 00:48:44)
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20:16:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:34:44 Join Cheeto [0] (
20:35:14CheetoI have a quickie question. What is ATA Error -11?
20:36:09Bagderread the source
20:36:09 Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:36:30Cheetothe source code?
20:36:50BagderI don't think they're documented anywhere
20:38:04Bagderyou get it immediately when starting?
20:38:31Cheetooccasionally it starts working again
20:39:08Bagderif I read it correctly, it means it means ATA problems
20:39:13Cheetofigured that
20:39:29CheetoI'm just wondering what the error is. Thankfully I managed to recover the data off it
20:39:59Cheetopossibly data corruption?
20:40:06BagderI think it means it timed out waiting for the ready bit
20:40:31Bagderfirmware/drivers/ata.c line 1099
20:41:06Cheetosee this is why I need to learn programming :P
20:41:16Cheetoalright, so reinstall the OS onto it?
20:41:35BagderI don't think reinstalling will make any difference
20:41:56Bagderare your batteries in good shape?
20:42:33amiconnIf ata -11 occurs immediately at startup, it is more likely caused by line 1132. I suspect flakey contacts
20:42:39Cheetoand fully charged
20:42:39Cheetoit's only a year old
20:43:00Cheeto*goes digging for tinfoil*
20:43:03Bagderamiconn: seems more likely, yes
20:43:08Cheetoso what does ATA -11 mean?
20:43:14Cheetoit's a timeout error caused by what?
20:43:50Bagderit is a problem with the ATA
20:44:01Bagderif you want the details, I recommend the source
20:44:16Bagderbut it is probably because of your hw
20:44:20Bagdernot a sw problem
20:46:08Cheetoi'll try and read the source, hopefully I can glean something out of it
20:47:04amiconnCheeto: If your unit is still under warranty, I'd recommend that you send it for repair. If not, I recommend checking the battery contacts. See for details
20:47:58Cheetoit's a Jukebox FM Recorder, isn't that guide for a different model?
20:48:08amiconnAh, yes.
20:48:53Cheetodamnit, it's out of the one year range by 2 months
20:49:17amiconnAnyway, the FM/V2 recorders sometimes also show battery problems, most often because only one of the 2 LiIon cells actually have contact
20:49:55Cheetoso seriously, would tinfoil work for makeshift? I;ve already had to tape the battery flap down to keep it shut and the machine running
20:50:14amiconnThere's an external link describing the procedure for the JBMM, which should be valid for FM/V2 as well,
20:50:55 Quit Cheeto ("CGI:IRC")
20:50:57 Join Cheeto [0] (
20:51:11Cheetooops, Link opened in the wrong window :P
20:52:50Cheetowould any of this debug info be helpful?
20:54:41 Join AciD [0] (~gni@acid.user)
20:55:38amiconnWell, it depends. What makes me believe that your box has power problems is that when I started adapting rockbox for player flashing, I also got "panic ata -11" when the HD was not powered at all.
20:56:07Cheetowell, the contacts are clean and are both touching, should I try replacing the battery?
20:56:39 Join Zagor [0] (
20:57:31 Join einhirn [0] (
20:58:26amiconnCheeto: I can't say that much about the FM/V2 because I don't have such a unit. I can imagine some more sources for the problem: (1) The hd connector
20:59:11amiconn(2) The hd itself may be failing. To make sure, you would have to check it independently of the JB, either connecting it with a 2.5"->3.5" adapter to your PC or in an external USB enclosure
21:00:01CheetoI have a laptop, I can swap them
21:00:07 Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:00:15CheetoI was planning on doing that, anyways, and using a live Slackware disk to run a scan on it
21:00:30amiconn(3) The circuit that supplies the HD power may be faulty. I would check the HD power with a multimeter while the box is running
21:02:27amiconnDo you hear/ feel the HD spin when the error happens?
21:02:45Cheetoit spins up
21:02:59Cheetoremains spinning, then spins down when I reset the box
21:03:18Cheetoit also randomly starts up again, runs normally, then locks up
21:08:49amiconnStrange. What harddisk model do you have? (Info->Debug->View disk info)
21:09:52CheetoI have no idea, I can't access the menu system
21:10:23Cheetoit starts up, gives me the eror, says 'Press On to debug' and the debug is a screen full of changing numbers
21:11:07CheetoPADR, PBDR, AN0-AN7, Batt, ATA
21:11:13Cheetothose are the readings it gives me
21:12:50amiconnYeah. Of course you can only get to the menu if it starts up without panic. I thought that the panic ata -11 doesn't occur always
21:14:03Cheetomost of the time it does
21:14:12CheetoI can't seem to get it to go back to normal operation right now
21:18:40 Join AciD [0] (~gni@acid.user)
21:35:29 Join LinusN [0] (
21:40:10Cheetothanks guys, I'll check all that
21:42:46 Join scott666_ [0] (
21:48:01amiconnLinusN: "cvs diff -u" tells me "unknown host" !?
21:48:26LinusNour dns provider has network problems
21:48:38amiconnHmm :(
21:48:48Bagdercheckout from and commit there ;-P has problems, does not
21:49:24amiconnHmm. I'd have to adapt my working copy :-/
21:49:33BagderI know, it wasn't a serious suggestion
21:49:49Bagderthis shouldn't be a long-term problem
21:50:02amiconnis and the same ip?
21:50:24amiconnSo I'll temporarily add that to my hosts file
21:50:33Bagderright, that should work
21:52:06amiconnIt does, even with Windows :)
21:52:46LinusNsome research gave me the information that they have dug off a cable in Gothenburg
21:53:09LinusNplenty of internet and mobile phone traffic problems
21:53:46LinusNand cave-in risks have delayed the repairs
21:53:47 Quit Cheeto ("CGI:IRC")
21:54:11LinusNthey say it might be repaired by midnight
21:54:17LinusN(swedish time)
21:54:22Bagderoh crappo
21:57:41Bagderoh well, it brings peace to my mailbox
21:59:22LinusNnice and quiet
22:00:17amiconnWaargh! I wanted to send Linus a new test soon :(
22:00:39BagderI'm sitting here expecting some urgent mails too
22:04:17LinusNme too
22:16:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:42:58 Part LinusN
22:47:51 Join bobTHC [0] (
22:47:55 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (
22:47:58bobTHChi all
22:48:24[IDC]Dragonhi there!
22:48:39bobTHCwhat's up
22:48:50[IDC]Dragonis down?
22:50:03[IDC]Dragondoesn't work from here
22:50:11amiconn[IDC]Dragon: No it isn't. There are DNS problems in Sweden
22:50:12bobTHCwork from .fr
22:50:31[IDC]Dragonthe forums do work.
22:50:31amiconnIf you use the IP, it works
22:50:43[IDC]Dragonwhich is?
22:50:48amiconn(or if you have the resoulution cached, like me
22:51:18amiconnYou will experience the same if you try to resolve
22:52:19amiconnIP is . I temporarily added it to my hosts file. shouldn't have dns problems, only
22:52:57[IDC]Dragonah, correct
22:53:07amiconnHmm. As said, does work here. I'm also at T-Online...
22:53:31[IDC] works for me, .se not
22:54:35bobTHCthat the ip
22:54:53Zagorthat's a google ip
22:54:53[IDC]Dragona different one?
22:57:25amiconnI only get ~8 hrs of runtime from my 2300 mAh cells :( Most likely I have a bad cell.
22:58:25[IDC]Dragondid you compare them when discharged?
23:00:37[IDC]DragonOT: today I found a car stereo with a card slot and a USB jack
23:01:23bobTHCthat's the ip
23:01:40amiconnbobTHC: I already pasted it
23:01:46bobTHCerror page on contactor server
23:02:13ZagorbobTHC: you can't access web servers by ip only. one ip can host many web sites.
23:02:27amiconnYes... with HTTP1.1
23:02:32Zagorsimply use and you'll be fine
23:03:04Zagorwell you can, but you have to send a Host: header
23:04:07 Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:04:19Zagor[IDC]Dragon: i saw one like that the other day too, but only found swedish and french web pages about it :)
23:09:57amiconnZagor: I sometimes test HTTP connections that way, connecting via telnet to port 80 and then playing browser.
23:10:37Zagoramiconn: yes, but it only works for the default website on that server
23:10:59amiconnOr you have to send a Host: header
23:11:15amiconnGET / HTTP/1.1
23:11:22Zagorpersonally, I use curl for such tests though :)
23:11:53amiconnI did not yet check out curl? Is it available for windows (without having cygwin installed that is)?
23:11:54Zagorour default website is "Ingen jefla server her inte." :-)
23:12:02Bagderamiconn: it is
23:12:35ZagorBagder: quick, name a mirror not on :)
23:13:10Zagorthe homepage of curl is
23:13:21Zagorbut due to current difficulties, it can't be reached
23:13:36amiconnSame IP as
23:13:45Bagderno, but same DNS problem
23:14:31Bagderthat's a german one
23:14:40Zagornice name
23:15:40 Join AciD [0] (~gni@acid.user)
23:16:36amiconnZagor: Bah, I clicked on README -> could not be found :(
23:17:12Bagderyeah, some parts of the site are only
23:18:17Zagorthe ip of is
23:20:00amiconn_Much_ better, thanks :)
23:20:20 Quit AciD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:20:22[IDC]DragonI found a nice source for serial converters
23:20:37[IDC]Dragoneven coming from USB
23:20:52ZagorBagder: i shouldn't have thrown away my id3db notes from the french conference. you forget a lot in a month... :)
23:22:02[IDC]Dragona local store has cheap USB->serial converters with 3 V levels, for mobile phones, about 6 Euro
23:27:35 Quit bobTHC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:34:16amiconnZagor: I'll send my new player ata power test plugin to Linus now. Could you perhaps run this on your 4.13 player too? Might be interesting...
23:34:41[IDC]Dragonthose cables are really cheap:
23:37:44Bagderthe volume of the iRiver is not as loud as Rockbox
23:38:03Bagderfar from it actually
23:38:36 Join AciD [0] (~gni@acid.user)
23:39:09[IDC]Dragonand Zagor "complained" about background noise, is that so?
23:39:42BagderI haven't noticed. I guess I should try some more quiet and peaceful music
23:39:52amiconnZagor: DCC send? email?
23:40:14Zagorit's not as noticeable as the archos buzz. i only noticed it when I turned off the iriver while still wearing my headphones.
23:40:23Zagordcc, email hangs on the dns problem...
23:43:14amiconnZagor: The archos recorder buzz was very noticeable. That's only one of the issues that rockbox cured. I still have the old email I once sent to archos support. Never got a reply...
23:50:25Zagoramiconn: PB4 low (1 us)
23:51:10amiconnThanks for the test. That's interesting - I always get low (0 us). Maybe the pulldown doesn't pull that strong on older hw

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