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#rockbox log for 2005-01-11

00:00:17lImbus_windows-plugin ?
00:00:24*Zagor has never ran itunes
00:00:43mrfry3currently on archos site only mac is supported
00:00:46lImbus_I had a windows version of itunes installed a few month ago.
00:00:57lImbus_euh ?
00:01:32lImbus_something on the archos website led you think the gemini would work with mac only ?
00:01:45mrfry3there is a [plugin for mac so archos players can sync using itunes
00:02:00lImbus_ah, thats additional.
00:02:11lImbus_for windows, you don't need no itunes :-)
00:02:37mrfry3instead i get musicmatch
00:02:52lImbus_I don't know these devices, but I'm pretty sure these devices need no other software to communicate with windows
00:03:20lImbus_musicmatch helps like itunes to manage your tons of music. i dislike both
00:03:55mrfry3is there a way to update the arclibrary without musicmatch
00:04:04Zagormrfry3: just copy your files to the player. no special software needed.
00:04:35lImbus_arclibrary ?
00:06:09Zagorahh, archos has started with an id3 database: ARClibrary
00:06:19mrfry3archos has something installedyes
00:06:53Zagorwould be fun to try, comparing it to mine :)
00:07:10Bagderhow's that going btw?
00:07:21mrfry3if you just copy directly w/o musicmatch, they db never updates
00:07:59Zagorthe first version is nearly committable. i "just" need to break out all directory-specific code from tree.c
00:10:13Zagormaking tree.c more abstract, calling code from filetree.c and dbtree.c
00:10:36mrfry3any idea when rockbox will work with gmini?
00:11:44Bagderno :-)
00:11:52Bagdernot today
00:11:55Bagdernot next week
00:11:56jypquite some time
00:12:17jypif you want sound to be played...
00:12:21lImbus_we should announce a date for the iRiver and gmini port. we should announce ANY date so these questions get muted.
00:12:35jypNothing before 2 months ;)
00:12:39lImbus_and if 'we' fail, we claim the vaporware-award
00:12:44ZagorlImbus: we don't announce dates. we can't make such promises.
00:12:56Bagderfixed dates are for the weak ;-)
00:13:27lImbus_jo, I know. was for fun. it's the saying that gets my boss to his ends: "it's ready when it's ready"
00:13:29Zagorfixed dates are for marketing departments. we don't have one.
00:13:51 Quit mrfry3 ("CGI:IRC")
00:14:19ZagorlImbus: i was hoping you were joking. i just couldn't risk it ;)
00:15:25 Join JohnP67 [0] (
00:15:28lImbus_thats so true
00:18:42JohnP67Anyone out there?
00:19:02BagderI'm in here
00:19:06Bagdernot out there!
00:19:20 Join bagawk [0] (~Lee@bagawk.user)
00:19:30JohnP67Does anyone have time for a few newbie questions regarding Rockbox?
00:19:48jypWho's Alan Korr ?
00:19:50BagderJohnP67: fire away!
00:20:00Bagderjyp: he hasn't been around in years
00:20:24jypok.. Still looking for the ATA guru "out there" ;)
00:20:36Zagorjyp: what do you need to know?
00:20:42BagderZagor and LinusN are two suitable ATA guys
00:20:50jypOh alright...
00:20:56JohnP67Ok, where to start..first, to sum it up, I used the voicebox talk-mp3 to create folder/file names and did so correctly. However, my player seems to not play all of them.
00:21:08jypThere's a lot of people... I'm messing up the names.
00:21:39jypI can't make out how some registers are mapped to the gmini's ide controller...
00:22:14jypis there some kind of standard for that ?
00:23:21Zagorno. as you can see from the other devices supported, the registers can be located quite differently.
00:24:01Zagorno info in the data sheets?
00:24:15jypno data sheet at all
00:24:48jypOr with nothing related to programming the device
00:25:01jypthat's why I thought it could be standard
00:25:32Zagorbut you added this to the emulator, didn't you?
00:25:57jypbut archos firmware do not use some registers that you do use
00:26:03Zagorsuch as?
00:27:03jypor maybe i don't emulate it correctly
00:28:02Zagorah, ok those "generic" registers are always in the same order. that's in the ata spec. i thought you meant the data and control registers.
00:28:15Zagorsorry for the confusion
00:28:39jypI don't understand what's going o anyways
00:28:47jyp(don't ask me how I did the emulator)
00:29:00Zagorwhat's happening?
00:29:29lImbus_I was about to ask him how he did the emu...
00:29:57LinusNJohnP67: not all of them?
00:31:36JohnP67No, not all of them. Some folders and files just bring silence, while others are spoken with numbers.
00:31:54JohnP67Most work fine. The vast majority.
00:32:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:35:47 Quit bogeyman ()
00:35:54LinusNmaybe it has something to do with the filenames?
00:36:29JohnP67In what way? It is a few folders and file names, btw. No pattern I can determine.
00:37:06LinusNgive me an example, filename and file size
00:38:55JohnP67I divide music into folders based on bands/artists. So, example, Alan Parsons, or, Emerson, Lake & Palmer aren't spoken, but Asia, ELO and others are.
00:39:28JohnP67I would have to have the unit hooked up to see the files not being spoken, but they are in the rockbox directory. The music tracks seem to all be spoken.
00:39:38JohnP67within the individual folders
00:40:41LinusNthey are in the rockbox directory?
00:41:21JohnP67Yes, all are. Is that a problem? It seemed like the best place to put them.
00:42:39jyp'Nite all
00:42:40 Part jyp ("Leaving")
00:42:46LinusNi'm not a voice file user myself, but i thought the .talk files were supposed to be in the same location as the music directory
00:43:07LinusN(or was it inside the dir...?)
00:44:18lImbus_I am voice user
00:44:23lImbus_voice directory user
00:44:27LinusNyes, every directory should contain a "" file
00:44:31JohnP67They are created within each folder. You have a, and individual talk clip files for each file within that folder. What seems to be the only pattern is the folder names not spoken are all in the rockbox folder. Thing is, most are spken there. It's about five that aren't
00:45:01lImbus_ahh, we are messing up dir-voice and file-voice
00:45:20LinusNJohnP67: but why on earth have all the music in the rockbox dir?
00:45:57JohnP67Good question. Lol. It just seemed the convenient thing to do.
00:46:11LinusNand it's "", not ""
00:46:22JohnP67I didn't think that would make a difference according to the documentation.
00:47:00LinusNthe rockbox dir should only contain rockbox and its associated files
00:47:50LinusNnot that it does any harm, but it simplifies a few things, like not having to set the "All files" view option
00:47:54JohnP67Ok, I'll try moving the music out.Not sure if that is the problem, but who knows. This is all new to me.
00:48:03LinusNthat is probably not the problem
00:48:25LinusNi suspect either the dir name or the file contents
00:48:36LinusNtoo bad you can't give me an example
00:49:09JohnP67Emerson, lake and Plamer, and Alan Parsons, are two folders that aren't being spoken.
00:49:53LinusNthat would be "/.rockbox/Emerson, Lake & Palmer/" then?
00:50:54JohnP67Yes, that's it
00:51:00Zagorexactly like that?
00:51:08Zagorthe details are very important
00:51:55JohnP67Ok, give me a second and I'll check
00:51:57LinusNlooking at the code, the dir name shoudln't matter
00:52:57LinusNplease check that there really is a file, and that it isn't 0 bytes
00:57:03JohnP67Yes, exactly how you wrote the file name, Linus. And each one ranges between 1 and 1.5 kb
00:58:32lImbus_my files are bigger for less longer dirnames
00:58:43LinusNcan you send me the file?
00:58:55JohnP67I'm using Crystal as my rockbox and Marry for the talk files. Is that a problem?
00:59:03LinusN1kb is pretty small
00:59:20JohnP67Ok, where to send it?
00:59:45LinusNare the working files that small too?
00:59:57LinusNsend it to linus at
01:00:16JohnP67Hold on, I'll check
01:02:34Zagori'm off to bed. see you.
01:02:35 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
01:03:13Bagderme too
01:03:35lImbus_uh, nite
01:04:02 Quit bagawk ("Leaving")
01:06:39JohnP67I'll email you the one of the files, Linus. I'll also compare it to working ones. Stuck on the phone...
01:09:21JohnP67You still here, Linus?
01:09:24LinusNanother guess is that the script might have problems with spaces or other chars in the dir names
01:10:41JohnP67Hmm. I'll experiment, but you might be onto something about the size. Alan Parsons is only 1.5 kb. The working ones, which are shorter in name, are more on average.
01:11:45LinusNtry copying a working file into the alan parsons dir
01:11:58LinusNand see if it is spoken
01:12:50JohnP67Ok, I'll try that. Two other quick questions befoe I have to run. First, is the disk info for disk space accurate? Secondly, how does one create a play list with specific songs? Can this be done as a blind person?
01:14:25LinusN1) the disk space info is not always accurate, since Windows doesn't always update that information on the disk
01:15:01LinusN2) You use the on+play (or hold-play) menu to queue the files, and then save the dynamic playlist
01:15:35LinusN3) don't know
01:15:51JohnP67Ok, but I get no speech when I try to cue files. I was told that some areas with music playing won't be able to have speech work at the same time.
01:16:16LinusNJohnP67: true, the speech is disabled while playing music
01:16:28LinusNhowever, you don't have to play music to queue files
01:17:02JohnP67Really? I don't see a cue option when I do on and play to get file menu. I see rename, delete and open with.
01:18:26LinusNwhen selecting an mp3 file?
01:19:05JohnP67Yes, if I am in a folder of MP3 files, I only have rename, open with, delete, create folder and one other thing. No cue option
01:20:00LinusNwhen i hold Play on an mp3 file, i get "playlist" as my first option
01:20:16LinusNfollowed by rename, delete etc
01:20:28 Quit mecraw__ ("Trillian (")
01:20:35JohnP67Yes, I get that, and then insert. Is that how you cue the file?
01:20:51LinusNyes, playlist->insert
01:21:05LinusNbut the damn thing starts playing...
01:21:14JohnP67Ok, I'll try that. Stupid me was thinking there is a cue option.
01:21:23LinusN(haven't used that feature myself)
01:21:58JohnP67I'll give it a shot and email you one of the non-working files. Thank you for all your help and your time.
01:22:08LinusNlooks like it's still unusable for blind people, since it starts playing
01:22:38JohnP67Well, I'll find out. It would be nice to create a play list manually, but I'll mess around.
01:23:08lImbus_need some sleep, cu later
01:23:09LinusNi don't think it should start playing
01:23:13LinusNme too
01:23:16LinusNnite all
01:23:31JohnP67Later then
01:23:35lImbus_LinusN: yes, startnig to play busts it...
01:23:44LinusNsilly, imho
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01:23:55 Quit lImbus_ (" Like's GUI? Then try HydraIRC -> <-")
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08:58:38LePoulpehi all
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09:35:55Zagormorning all
09:41:43LePoulpemorning Zagor
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10:17:17 Quit dwihno (Remote closed the connection)
10:22:53Bagderhi ho!
10:23:24LinusNho ho ho
10:24:10Bagderany progress on my archos, santa?
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10:26:43LinusNmy elfs gave it to another kid
10:27:10Bagdernever trust an elf!
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12:12:38*lImbus is back
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14:49:31Zagorwoo, now i can toggle between id3 browser and file browser
14:50:30Lynx_is that part of the db project?
14:50:50Zagorhow do we want to do that, btw? currently I have a setting menu->general settings->file view->browse mode.
14:50:53ZagorLynx_: yes
14:51:35Zagori know: an F button! ;-)
14:51:48LinusNZagor: you mean file view->"Music only", "Playlist", "All", "ID3"?
14:52:18Zagorah, that's a nicer way
15:13:52[IDC]Dragonwhat's the footprint of ID browsing?
15:14:23Bagderprobably enough to kill some rombox...
15:14:39Bagderwe should make a special build option for rombox
15:14:46Bagderso that we can ifdef out features for it
15:15:10[IDC]Dragonno, we should make a special loader
15:15:31Zagorlinus is on it :)
15:15:48LinusN...says zagor
15:15:52Zagorjust kidding
15:16:09[IDC]Dragoninstead of the Archos firmware in the first part
15:16:13dwihnolike the archos firmware? but just a tiny stub in the flashed part?
15:16:19[IDC]Dragonan emergency Rockbox
15:16:45[IDC]Dragonwhich can charge, boot .ajz, and USB mode
15:16:51Zagorwe'd might need some charging code in that stub
15:17:19dwihnoHow about the charge-while-USB issue? :)
15:17:25dwihnoFeels like I'm bringing it up too often
15:20:11[IDC]DragonI have a name for it: how about "bootbox"?
15:21:07Zagormy db-enabled rockbox.bin is currently 1300 bytes larger than release 2.4
15:21:46[IDC]Dragonoh, that's small
15:22:13Zagoryeah. i wonder if i've removed something vital :-)
15:22:39[IDC]Dragonmore feature per byte than my 900-byte multivolume
15:23:06Zagorit will grow more, though. the database browser is only very simple yet
15:23:26LinusNand let's not talk about the bugs-per-byte factor :-)
15:23:40[IDC]Dragonthe UI part is usually what takes the most
15:23:49ZagorLinusN: i think i'm gonna win that :-)
15:24:18[IDC]Dragonmultivolume had a bug, too
15:24:26LinusNbut you'll never beat my errors-per-commit factor :-)
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15:27:10[IDC]DragonZagor: can we do SQL queries onthe box?
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15:30:14LinusN[IDC]Dragon: only if you install sqlserver.rock, it's only 35megabytes
15:30:53[IDC]Dragonah, ok
15:31:44[IDC]Dragongood thing that I ordered some more of these RAM chips
15:33:19LinusNhow much were they?
15:34:15[IDC]DragonI don't know yet
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16:37:07bagawkhey [IDC]Dragon
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16:46:02[IDC]Dragonthat was too quick for me
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16:59:57zeekoenooooo... not that song
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17:16:38lImbusjyp: you have to resend your patch
17:16:53lImbusthe list does not take attachment but text-attachments
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17:35:10jyp_Does it mean you want inline text ?
17:35:40jyp_akf 5 minutes
17:36:01[IDC]Dragonwhy send patches to the mailing list, why not file them into the patch tracker?
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17:47:31lImbus[IDC]Dragon: Daniel told him to do :-)
17:47:54lImbusjyp_: me certainly not :-)
17:49:24[IDC]DragonI think that was a mistake
17:49:50[IDC]DragonI really suggest the patch tracker
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18:04:59jyp_ok I'll have a look at it.
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18:38:36zeekoehey Zagor
18:39:13zeekoeis it ok if i change this: global_settings.resume_index = -1;
18:39:45zeekoeinto this: resume = NO;
18:40:19zeekoewould save a lot of ifs for me, and no change in functionality i think
18:40:33zeekoebtw, it's in here:
18:40:47zeekoe if ( global_settings.resume == RESUME_ASK_ONCE && ask_once) {
18:40:47zeekoe global_settings.resume_index = -1;
18:40:47zeekoe settings_save();
18:40:47zeekoe }
18:41:52Zagori don't understand. you want to create a #define NO -1 ?
18:42:37zeekoeuh... i'm not sure
18:42:40zeekoe* looks
18:43:25zeekoethere's resume, and resume_index
18:44:03zeekoewhat RESUME_ASK_ONCE does after knowing user doesn't want to resume is making resume_index =-1
18:44:21zeekoebut resume still stays RESUME_ASK_ONCE
18:45:06zeekoethis way everytime i check for resume == RESUME_ASK_ONCE, i have to check resume_index too
18:46:09Zagoryes. but if you set resume = NO, the user won't ever get the resume question again. and that's not the purpose of ask_once.
18:46:46zeekoehmm, i see something like that, too now
18:47:14zeekoeso.. RESUME_ASK_ONCE only checks resume position at startup?
18:47:18zeekoeor is that incorrect
18:47:26Zagorthat's correct
18:52:47zeekoehmm... food
18:52:53Zagorgood idea
18:53:26zeekoebut, my patch makes progress...
18:57:58 Join amiconn [0] (
19:13:26[IDC]Dragonhi there
19:25:52[IDC]DragonI gotta go
19:26:04 Quit [IDC]Dragon ("CGI:IRC")
19:50:58amiconnBagder, Zagor: I ran into a slight problem concerning voice files :(
19:51:25amiconnI'm currently working on the variable stereo width feature.
19:51:44amiconnHowever, this means I need to deprecate some .lang strings.
19:52:11amiconnWhen I build a .voice file from that, this means those string are no longer spoken.
19:52:45amiconnUsers of the 2.4 release updating their .voice file will run into this....
19:53:22amiconnIt seems we need 2 voice file versions in the wiki: One for the latest rockbox release, and one up to date with current cvs.
19:54:46Zagordon't deprecate, just add new ones
19:55:31amiconnI need to deprecate the old voice strings, to avoid growing the voice file too large. The voice files are rather tight.
19:55:41Zagorhmm, right
19:56:21Zagortwo voice versions are reasonable imho
19:58:26amiconnWith .lang / .lng there is no such problem, because the .lng files are always distributed with the matching rockbox version
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20:47:42zeekoehmm... is in ondio the right button same as the play button?
20:48:13zeekoei've almost finished the config loading thingy
20:48:28zeekoeit loads, for non-recorders, left.cfg or right.cfg
20:48:37zeekoeat the resume screen
20:49:15zeekoeso when loading right.cfg, playing is also started
20:49:36amiconnHmm. Maybe use up/down on Ondio?
20:49:55zeekoehow's the player layout?
20:49:59zeekoeup = play?
20:50:29zeekoelol.. well, then i'll use up.cfg down.cfg on ondio...
20:51:14zeekoekeeps me off the streets ;-)
20:52:39zeekoecan i use #else if safely?
20:52:44zeekoeor #elseif
20:56:57zeekoei'll do that
21:00:58zeekoehm, compiler (?) doesn't like it.
21:01:05zeekoei'll just use #else, #if
21:02:00Zagori'm writing too much perl... cpp does not support elsif.
21:02:23Zagorah right
21:04:54amiconnzeekoe: it's #elif
21:05:15amiconnZagor: Do you remember where the global settings struct is defined?
21:08:54zeekoeok :)
21:10:58zeekoeamiconn: settings.*
21:11:09zeekoeit's defined as user & global
21:11:45amiconnOk, thanks. The struct is defined in settings.h, the variable in settings.c
21:13:17zeekoeok, that's possible
21:13:31zeekoebtw, can i use ^ for logical xor?
21:13:41zeekoeand what's the difference between logical and bitwise?
21:14:22amiconn^ is always bitwise, but it behaves like logical xor if both operands are boolean
21:16:52 Join Stryke` [0] (
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21:22:14zeekoe*yikes* it seems the statusbar is somehow linked to my autoloadconfig setting...
21:22:47 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (
21:23:11[IDC]DragonHi again!
21:26:36[IDC]DragonI forgot to tell: is doubling their prices from the 15th on
21:26:54[IDC]Dragonthat's why I'm in a hurry browsing their stock
21:28:27 Quit Stryke` (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
21:28:55[IDC]Dragonand their site is overloaded... :(
21:34:55zeekoeallofmp3... that was that half-legal site, wasn't it?
21:35:28[IDC]Dragonno, it's perfectly legal
21:37:43zeekoebut they didn't pay money to the record companies, did they?
21:38:46[IDC]Dragonthey have negotiated a "flatrate" with russian authorities, pay them copyright fees
21:39:11[IDC]Dragonperhaps this has changed a bit now, and they have to raise
21:39:32 Quit hgb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:42:40zeekoehere's the new version of my patch, for those wanting to play around with it
21:42:53zeekoetracker page:
21:43:29zeekoei've been programming enough this day... still doesn't work correctly though, when autoloadconfig is disabled
21:43:52zeekoealso, the code is crappy, but i don't have the knowledge to uncrappify it :)
21:44:32 Join [IDC]Dragon2 [0] (
21:44:43[IDC]Dragonchanging PC...
21:44:47 Quit [IDC]Dragon ()
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22:08:09BagderZagor: any comment on the attachement filtering of the mailing list?
22:09:17Zagorit was added to avoid all those html attachments people insist on sending (and vcards and other assorted junk)
22:09:47BagderI think we should invert the filter and strip only those we don't want
22:10:33Bagderlike text/html
22:10:42Zagorpeople tend to be rather imaginative when inventing mime types...
22:11:01Bagderbut it seems pointless to strip good patches mailed to the list
22:11:19Bagderand they can be of many types too
22:11:40Zagori'm ok with changing it
22:12:02Bagderok, so I add text/html as the only one to strip to start with
22:12:43amiconnVariable stereo width on the way... Increases rockbox binary by about 250 bytes.
22:12:45Zagoroh yeah, the filtering stopped all those virus mails too
22:12:49Bagderand text/x-vcard
22:13:27Bagderwe should run clamav on the box really
22:13:46Zagorbecause they didn't have a message, only attachments
22:14:01Zagoryeah, we could do that
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22:23:58 Quit methangas (" I love my HydraIRC -> <-")
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22:33:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:35:52amiconn[IDC]Dragon: R u there?
22:37:59 Quit schuepf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:39:51amiconnBagder, Zagor: I have two questions concerning settings:
22:40:37[IDC]Dragonamiconn, I am here
22:40:48amiconn(1) I changed the channel_config setting, but only slightly. The number of bits is still the same, but the values have different meanings. Should I bump the config version because of that?
22:41:01amiconn(2) If yes, am I obliged to sort settings?
22:41:08[IDC]Dragonfacing questions like which Van der Graaf Generator album is best
22:42:29[IDC]Dragon(1) yes, I'd say
22:42:42[IDC]Dragonalthough it becomes a habit...
22:43:02amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Also settings related, as you wrote the bit table stuff: There is a worst-case sum given at the end of the rtc settings list. The number given there seems outdated. When I calculate the current sum, I get a lower number??
22:43:18[IDC]Dragonmy table made it too easy to change this
22:43:30amiconnZagor: Yes, sort. Meaning, sorting sound settings together, disk settings together etc.
22:43:32[IDC]Dragonthe number is outdated, yes
22:43:46[IDC]Dragonworst-case depends on the platform
22:43:52amiconnI get a sum of 261 bits now (I added 8)
22:44:06[IDC]Dragononly the # in the RTC table matters
22:44:28Zagoramiconn: you are free to sort, but not obliged to imho
22:44:59amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Yes I know. I simply added all bit counts unconditionally (that would be a hypothetic platform ;) )
22:45:27[IDC]Dragonworse that worst
22:46:38amiconnNot much though. The only mutually exclusive settings with our existing units are HAVE_CHARGING_CTRIL (rec v1 only) <-> CONFIG_TUNER (rec fm and Ondio fm only)
22:48:08amiconnrec fm is the worst
22:48:44[IDC]Dragondon't forget my backlighted Ondio ;-)
22:49:21[IDC]Dragontoo bad the compiler can't sum it up
22:49:25amiconnThis does not have charging, so there are still considerably less settings
22:50:03[IDC]DragonI have plans for a charging mod, too (but uncontrolled)
22:50:06amiconnOk, it's only 2 bits less
22:50:21amiconn(within rtc)
22:57:20[IDC]Dragonspeaking about bits+bytes, we haven't reached a consensus yet about the multivolume
22:57:50[IDC]Dragonthe way it's now is pretty nasty, with those extra argument macros
22:58:46[IDC]Dragonthe survey brought no serious use for the HD models
23:00:25Zagori don't see a point in having it conditional. the saving is very marginal and the macros are ugly.
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23:00:59amiconnAnd I don't see a point in having multivolume enabled for the hd models
23:01:27[IDC]Dragonthat's what I meant with consensus...
23:01:51amiconnThe only reason I can think of for partitioning the jb hd is when you want separate data & music partitions... and in that case you exactly do *not* want the jb to mount both
23:02:36[IDC]Dragonhow about hardening the argument in the lower layer, but not wiring it further up?
23:02:50amiconnAnd most probably you will format the data partition with a fs that the jb cannot handle anyway; NTFS for Windows, EXT2 or euiv for Linux etc.
23:02:57Zagordon't make the code more complex than we have to
23:03:31[IDC]Dragonmore complex by what? (ifdefs?)
23:04:25Zagorall conditionals and macros add layers of complexity. unless there is a technical reason we should not add more.
23:05:04Zagorthe question is not "should we enable it on hd", it's "should we disable it on hd"
23:05:09[IDC]Dragonfor the upper layer,this would be minimal
23:05:16Zagoryes, but pointless
23:05:22[IDC]Dragonbut for minimal savings, too
23:15:20jypI have more questions about ATA registers ...
23:16:08jypI see that you alias ATA_ALT_STATUS to ATA_CONTROL...
23:16:57jypI know where ATA_ALT_STATUS is; can I rely on the fact that ATA_CONTROL is the same register ?
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23:19:29jypZagor ?
23:19:34amiconnMy player's display now refuses to work :(
23:19:52Zagoryes, as far as i remember control and alt_status is always the same. i'll check the specs.
23:20:34jypThanks :)
23:21:27amiconnHmm. After numerous tries (> 20) it now works again :-/ ?????
23:21:39jypAlso, there's this quote from the datasheet: "The USB97C202 conforms to all timing diagrams and specifications for ATAPI-5 as set forth in the
23:21:39jypT13/1321D Revision 3 NCITS specification. Please refer to this specification for more information.
23:21:57Zagorit is always the same: "This register is read only. If this address is written to by the host, the Device Control register is written."
23:22:05jypI'm not sure it is relevant though
23:22:44jypThanks alot... Maybe you can give me a pointer to the doc ?
23:22:52Zagori interpret that to simply mean "we adhere to atapi-5"
23:23:26jypAlright... Sorry for my naivet? ;)
23:24:03Zagor"AppleŽ today introduced iPodŽ shuffle, a breakthrough digital music player based on iPod?s legendary shuffle feature which lets users experience their music in a million different ways."
23:24:10Zagorlegendary shuffle?
23:24:26[IDC]Dragonmersenne twister?
23:24:34Bagderbreakthrough == flash based player
23:24:43[IDC]DragonOndio, ah
23:24:45ZagorBagder: yes. apple just invented those.
23:25:01BagderApple is good ;-)
23:25:04*Bagder grins
23:25:40Zagor"iPod shuffle is based on iPod?s pioneering and widely-used shuffle feature, which randomly selects songs from the user's music library or playlists."
23:26:23[IDC]Dragonprobably my 1980something CD player now has to pay royalties in reverse
23:26:33Zagorit would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad
23:28:37 Quit Stryke` ("Friends don't let friends listen to Anti-Flag")
23:29:51pike|gotta love PR zeelots
23:29:59Zagorthey claim the lack of display is a feature
23:30:18[IDC]Dragonno display?
23:30:20Bagder"no annoying display" ;-)
23:30:26Zagor?With most flash-memory music players users must use tiny displays and complicated controls to find their music; with iPod shuffle you just relax and it serves up new combinations of your music every time you listen.?
23:30:37pike|aha, they named it shuffle, random was the "estimated" name
23:30:48pike|got link?
23:30:53 Join quelsaruk [0] (~kvirc@
23:30:58amiconnhi quelsaruk
23:31:18amiconnquelsaruk: Did you notice my voice building article ;-)
23:31:48pike|it got an apple on it, people will buy it no matter how crappy it is
23:31:54quelsarukno, i have my screen broken, so i can only use internet when i can steal a laptop :D
23:32:07quelsarukbut i'm going to investiguate that article right now
23:32:15Zagori predict apple fanboys will remove their regular ipod displays too, since apple proved it's much better that way.
23:32:55Bagder"new patent-pending AutoFill feature"
23:33:11Bagder"automatically selects the perfect number of songs to fill iPod shuffle"
23:33:33Zagoryeah, nobody ever did that before...
23:33:38pike|my dick is patent-pending
23:33:49pike|but I have no hopes of it ever getting approved
23:34:37Bagderit'll sell in huge amounts, that's for sure
23:36:18[IDC]Dragonthe price seems ok to me
23:37:09pike|yeah price is ok
23:37:31pike|now the other asian cheap flashmem will have to dump their prices
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23:39:39pike|is shiffle usb1 or usb2?
23:39:43pike|weak if it's usb1
23:40:26Zagorthe press release doesn't say
23:40:48pike|likely it's usb1 then
23:40:54quelsarukamiconn: i like it
23:40:56pike|weak features you dont mention
23:41:07quelsarukgreat HOWTO
23:41:25*quelsaruk gives a 8 to amiconn
23:41:40amiconnI hope it's clear enough. If there is something that needs more explanation, just tell me.
23:42:45quelsarukwhy do you use in your example sample frequency of 12??
23:42:59quelsaruk'cause it's spoken words?
23:43:08Bagdernot even the tech specs say what USB version it is
23:44:30 Quit TexJoachim ("Bye!")
23:44:35amiconnquelsaruk: I use 12 in the example to show the -B option too, as explained below. It's still possible to use 16 for the voices I build, except "Microsoft Sam"
23:44:56pike|other products mention "usb 2", shuffle just "usb" so it's probably slowish usb
23:45:01pike|eeek 1gb @ usb1 speed
23:45:15quelsarukI don't like MS Sam... i prefer a nice girl speaking ;)
23:45:24amiconnpike|: Flash mem isn't that much faster with USB2
23:46:02pike|you sure? then there would be limited usage for usb2 flashcard readers imho
23:46:49Zagorreading is very fast, writing is not always
23:47:18pike|there's slow and fast mem, true
23:47:27pike|prob slow in this shuffle then
23:48:26amiconnpike|: It *is* faster, but not that much as with hard disks
23:49:30 Quit schuepf_ ("ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7/20040616]")
23:49:45amiconnI expect a factor of ~1.7 for MMC, ~2 for SD, and a maximum of ~5 with other flash types
23:50:17amiconnThe limiting factor for MMC/SD is the transfer speed of the card itself (serial, 20/25 MBit/s).
23:50:51[IDC]Dragonflash *memory* itself can be very fast (reading), but the crippled serial interfaces going there are not
23:51:18amiconnFor faster transfer media, the flash memory itself limits the speed, at least for writing. Iirc flash memory currently goes up to 5 MByte/s max.
23:51:20[IDC]Dragonthe memory is solid state, nut much slower than RAM
23:52:41pike|btw, you guys seen ? want myself one of those
23:53:15pike|119dB @ 1mw is respect
23:53:22pike|and thats the cheapest model
23:53:55Zagornumbers don't say much when it comes to sound quality
23:54:26pike|true, and there's no way you can preview these babies either
23:54:34pike|they need to be custom made
23:54:52Bagderzagor doesn't preview, he orders and then sends them back! ;-P
23:55:03pike|but I dont think they would be able to take those prices if it was crap
23:56:23Zagori bought a pair of etymotic er-4 for $300. they are also earphones that everybody raves about and all reviewers praise. they sucked so bad i sent them back in two weeks.
23:56:49pike|O.o you dont like neutral sound ?
23:57:18Zagorthey are not neutral, they are grossly underpowered.
23:57:58[IDC]Dragondepends on the fit
23:58:00pike|can't say I ever tested a pair of etymotics, but I know of them, underpowered ?
23:58:11[IDC]DragonI have a pair of them
23:58:22Zagoryes, very very clear and crisp high and mid end. very very weak low end.
23:58:39[IDC]Dragonbut I admit bass is much more fun on my Koss portapro
23:59:00[IDC]Dragonfor voices, they are the best I have

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