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#rockbox log for 2005-01-13

00:02:09preglownorway isn't covered :/
00:06:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:11:50Christi-SArgh - I think I'm having a brain fart. How do I expose private subroutines to external files. I thought it was just a matter of declaring them extern.
00:12:08Christi-SI am probably being very dumb - it's so long since I wrote C.
00:12:24ZagorChristi-S: the external file needs to see the declaration somewhere.
00:12:32preglowyou declare them in a .h file and just link with the .o file that contains the sub?
00:12:41preglowextern isn't needed, i think
00:12:58preglowbut then again, it's been a while since i coded pure c as well
00:14:25*Christi-S nods. It's compiling without warnings and then complaining about missing routines when I get to the linker stage.
00:14:30amiconnextern is default, so it's not needed
00:14:50ZagorChristi-S: is it static?
00:14:51preglowahh, so extern is the opposite of static?
00:16:04amiconnpreglow: True for function declarations. For variables, there is a difference.
00:16:36preglowamiconn: then i understand, yes, i was about to ask about that
00:17:29ZagorChristi-S: then the function is simply not included in the link stage. check for spelling mistakes etc.
00:17:35Christi-SI am trying to call routines in main_menu.c and recorder/recording.c from tree.c
00:18:23preglowwhy not just do an objdump and see if the function name is correctly exported?
00:18:59Zagorwhich functions?
00:19:15Christi-Srec_menu and recording_screen
00:19:47Zagorwhich target are you building?
00:20:11Zagorthat's the problem. those functions are not available in the simulator.
00:20:19Zagor#if CONFIG_HWCODEC == MAS3587F
00:20:24Christi-SAh. I am a prat.
00:21:40bagawkBritish terms...
00:21:43preglowenglish word
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00:50:14Christi-SWow! I've succeeded in creating a build in which leaving the recording settings menu crashes the box.
00:50:41Zagorcongratulations :)
00:50:47preglowyou're the man!
00:51:07Christi-SI think my mother would've mentioned something like that.
00:51:26preglowhaha, in that case, you're the woman!
00:53:17Zagorbed time
00:53:19 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
00:53:42preglowyes, quite
00:57:01preglowChristi-S: what are you trying to code?
00:57:17Christi-SA start in the recorder screen mode.
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01:00:11Christi-SI can't for the life of me figure out why it's happening.
01:01:59preglowknow the feeling
01:02:28preglowi usually spend about six hours in this stage before i find the most stupid mistake imaginable
01:02:36preglowlet's hope you have better luck
01:05:09Christi-SHmm - wonder if it's because I need to update the config version number.
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01:06:49Gnatanyone active?
01:06:57Christi-SNope, still dies. :(
01:07:36preglowi'm waiting to accumulate my rockbox experience until the h120 bootloader comes out, so i'm little help, i'm afraid
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01:08:03Gnatdoes rockbox support added songs to a play list on the fly?
01:09:15 Quit TexJoachim ("Bye!")
01:09:21Gnatthat may be a stupid question, as i just started looking through the manual
01:15:26Christi-SYes, it does.
01:15:39Christi-SAnyway I'm calling it a night.
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01:15:59preglowand me
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10:45:07LinusNwill anyone object if i remove the automatic start of playback when inserting a track in the playlist from the on-play menu?
10:45:25BagderI won't
10:45:28LinusNit is a nuisance when all you want is to build a playlist
10:45:34LinusNespecially if you're blind
10:45:46BagderI've never used it ;-)
10:46:15Zagori don't use playlist building much either
10:50:21Lynx_hmm, is it many keypresses to start the playlist then?
10:51:15LinusNit should start when pressing ON
10:51:21LinusNto go to the wps
10:51:29LinusN(if you have resume enabled)
10:52:22Lynx_ah, sure, resume...
10:54:51LinusNor save the playlist and then play it
10:55:09LinusN(which i think would be the main point of the exercise)
10:56:17Lynx_well, i rarely play saved lists, usually i play the first track by inserting it into the list and while it plays add more tracks.
10:56:49Lynx_because otherwise the whole directory will go into the list, which is annoying
10:57:49LinusNsomeone should write a playlist editing plugin :-)
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10:59:11Bagdersomeone should write a boot loader for the iRiver B-]
10:59:22*Bagder hides
10:59:32*LinusN too
11:01:15Lynx_The curse of having the only BDM wiggler...
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11:06:49amiconnLinusN: I'd vote to make it an option whether start building a playlist also starts playback
11:09:09Lynx_well, I would be against making it mandatory to start the playlist separately, for the reasons above...
11:09:15amiconnFor some people (like me) it may be preferable to immediately start playback. I almost never use saved playlists
11:09:54LinusN...but you start playback by inserting a file?
11:11:17LinusNi wonder if it could be dependent on the voice settings
11:11:36LinusNi do this solely to enable playlist building for the blind
11:11:45amiconnWell, it depends. I almost never isert single files, but quite sometimes I start with inserting a dir.
11:12:26amiconnThis is not the same as starting a track within the dir if both "shuffle" and "play selected file first" are enabled
11:12:31LinusNwhat is the difference between inserting dir and playing the first file in the dir?
11:15:33LinusNwhat if it doesn't start playing if the voice is enabled (and there is a voice file)
11:17:06[IDC]DragonI'd call that a very difficult to understand side effect
11:17:11BagderI agree
11:17:35LinusNproblem is, if we have an option, what should be the default?
11:18:04[IDC]Dragonwhen do you insert a file and want to start playback?
11:18:27LinusNamiconn and Lynx_ have presented their examples
11:18:31[IDC]DragonI start by playing a file, is that playlist insertion
11:19:09LinusNon-play->playlist->insert starts playback automatically
11:19:31LinusNbad for blind people who wants to build a playlist
11:19:39[IDC]Dragonit's not intuitive to me that this should start playback
11:19:44LinusNme neither
11:19:47[IDC]Dragonor rather, does
11:20:52LinusNi personally think it should do what it says, and insert the file. period.
11:21:03*[IDC]Dragon agrees
11:21:30LinusNbut it would make it less convenient for guys like Lynx_
11:22:14LinusNi think the default option should be not to start playback
11:22:53LinusNor maybe an option to not insert the rest of the directory when playing a file
11:25:25Lynx_btw, what is the difference between the queue and the playlist?
11:26:16Lynx_would it be much trouble just to add another option "insert and play" that is only active when nothing is playing?
11:27:32LinusNso, to insert and play:
11:28:28amiconnLinusN: Thinking about it a bit further, I have to agree. Starting playback by inserting a track/dir is not intuitive (although it makes using playlists a bit more complicated in certain scenarios)
11:28:52amiconn(...if it does not start automatically)
11:29:13LinusNhold ON, PLAY to select "playlist", DOWN and the PLAy to select "insert and play", total of 4 keypresses
11:29:57LinusNhold ON, PLAY to select "playlist", PLAY again to select "insert", then ON to go to the WPS, total of 4 keypresses
11:30:51LinusN(if resume is set to "always", that is)
11:32:19amiconnAfter all, it may make building a playlist in the car more convenient if the list does not start automatically...
11:33:03Lynx_LinusN: hmm, is the latter one not 5 keypresses, i have to confirm the resume with PLAY ?
11:33:21Lynx_ah, resume set to always, sorry.
11:33:36LinusNLynx_: that's why i said (if resume is set to "always")
11:33:55Bagderyou don't need to confirm resume when ON is pressed, do you?
11:34:02LinusNyes i do
11:34:06BagderI can't recall having to do that
11:34:09Bagderbut ok
11:34:14LinusNmaybe you have "ask once"?
11:34:26Lynx_sorry, i wasn't really aware of the resume settings
11:34:27BagderI don't think so, but I don't remember
11:37:07Bagderperhaps ON should resume whatever the resume setting says
11:37:30BagderI think of the resume setting for shutdown/power on resumes
11:37:55LinusNperhaps it should, yes
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12:07:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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13:10:51 Join Cassandra [0] (~Christi@
13:11:28CassandraHello - can anyone tell me how the first entry in the rockbox config structures works?
13:11:51LinusNplease elaborate
13:13:06CassandraAt the beginning of the struct that stores rockbox config info in memory there is a kind of null entry. Currently it's nine bytes long. I'm interested in knowing what it means.
13:13:54Zagorare you talking about struct user_settings?
13:14:29Zagori don't see any null entry. the first struct member is "int volume;"
13:14:34CassandraErm, no.
13:15:09CassandraSorry, hd_bits and rtc_bits
13:16:14LinusNit contains the size of the block
13:17:18LinusNin bits
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13:17:49LinusNand it is nine bits long, not bytes
13:18:14CassandraI thought it was 44 bits long.
13:18:26LinusNthe entry is 9 bits long
13:18:38LinusNthe RTC RAM is 44 bytes long
13:19:22LinusNthe placeholder contains the number of *used* bits, not the size of the RTC RAM
13:19:52LinusNit is updated by the save_bit_table() function
13:20:06CassandraBut there seems to be far more than 9 bits of information in the rtc_bits struct.
13:21:10LinusNit is calculated and written by save_bit_table()
13:21:32CassandraAh. So it doesn't need updating when you change things then?
13:21:32LinusNthe *size field* is 9 bits long
13:21:48ZagorCassandra: a 9 bit value holds 0-511. the rtc struct is is <512 bits long.
13:22:21LinusNyes, it is constant until you change the struct definition
13:23:13CassandraI've added 1 bit of into to hd_bits. Do I need to up the placeholder from 11 to 12, or not?
13:23:26LinusNi repeat:
13:23:28LinusNit is calculated and written by save_bit_table()
13:23:41Zagoryou don't ever need to touch it
13:24:52CassandraRight. OK. Thanks, that eliminates a possibility.
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13:25:23CassandraRight. OK. Thanks, that eliminates a possibility.
13:27:16CassandraAh, found what I was doing wrong. It was in a completely different part of the code.
13:28:57dwihnoI was thinking... Perhaps the "new" breed of units could have a C implementation of the font stuff untill there's optimized code... Opinions?
13:29:44Bagderdwihno: of what font stuff?
13:32:23BagderI doubt the fonts will be a problem on the new units
13:32:41LinusNthey aren't on the iriver
13:32:43Bagderpossibly only colored ones
13:32:45Zagorodd. the H340 is cheaper than the H140 on pricerunner
13:33:24LinusNdwihno: perhaps you're referring to the iriverport wiki, where i say that loadable fonts don't work?
13:33:54LinusNthat has nothing to do with optimization
13:34:13LinusNit's just an ordinary bug :-)
13:34:17Bagderactually, jyp also "removed" the font loading in his patch
13:34:28Bagderbut I didn't commit that ;-)
13:35:37dwihnoLinusN: Yeah, that's what I thought...
13:35:40LinusNwhat do we prefer, tons of dead code in the boot loader, or tons of #ifdefs in the firmware code?
13:35:55ashridahZagor: wouldn't that be a symptom of dwindling h1xx stocks?
13:36:01dwihnoLinusN: I thought perhaps everything was arm optimized and stuff :)
13:36:11preglowaren't iriver discontinuing the h1x0 series?
13:36:17Bagderpreglow: yes
13:36:29Bagderat least people all over say so
13:36:30LinusNwe wouldn't optimize for arm, since we don't have an arm in any of our target platforms :-)
13:36:41Zagorashridah: possibly
13:36:46preglowexit the good players, enter the xp only players
13:36:52LinusNor maybe you meant "hand optimized" :-)
13:37:16LinusNooooh, it's not even hand optimized, it's ARM optimized!!!
13:37:28ashridahpreglow: XP only? don't tell me they're fucking over customers by gluing things like the n10 and h10 to WMP ?
13:37:35preglowashridah: they are indeed
13:37:37Zagorashridah: they sure do
13:37:49LinusN"tied for sure"
13:37:52Zagorno mass storage for you
13:37:55ashridahwhat did iriver's customers do to deserve that kind of treatment?
13:38:05preglowbuy iriver players
13:38:13ashridahthis is the fault of those sods who complained about a lack of protected wma support
13:38:28*ashridah huggles his h1xx and dreams the dreams of the free
13:39:02LinusNmp3 freedom fighters are a dying breed :-)
13:39:16preglowby the way, do you guys think vorbis support in the h1x0 uses more power because of some inherent complexity in vorbis, or because of a lousily coded decoder?
13:39:27Zagorpreglow: both
13:39:46CassandraCan anyone think of a reason why if I change a setting that I've added to Rockbox and then ROLO the kernel again the setting reverts to its default value
13:39:51Zagori wouldn't say "lousy" though, but it's probably at lot less optimised than the mp3 decoder
13:39:54ashridahi couldn't really care less about mp3s, but they can pry oggs out of my cold dead hands
13:40:03preglowi use vorbis exclusively, more or less, so it's a concern, heh
13:40:08LinusNCassandra: that's one of the uses for the size field
13:40:21BagderCassandra: because the config struct changed it can't load the old one
13:40:26Bagderand it resets to default
13:40:26LinusNif the size changes, the settings are invalid, since the struct has changed
13:40:59ashridahpreglow: heh, someone on misticriver (iirc) managed to cram a 20-something hour battery into his h1xx. just do that :)
13:41:32preglowashridah: yeah, i noticed, i think i'll try that if it ever becomes a big concern
13:41:34CassandraAh, so I need to bump the CONFIG_BLOCK_VERSION ?
13:42:23ashridahbit of a tight squeeze tho apparently, i'd be worried about some component piercing the packaging on it. while li-poly's aren't SUPPOSED to go *ROAST* flame-thrower style if they're cut, it's still probably not good for the contents of the player
13:42:59*ashridah is still entertained by the pictures made by a guy who made his pda into a 2-foot flamethrower for a few seconds because he accidentalyl damaged the packaging on the battery when trying to hack in a mod into it
13:44:01*ashridah should probably also be concerned by the way the battery pack in an old nokia phone he has is slowly expanding (it's got a bulge of about 1mm to it atm. hm)
13:44:37preglowmy new torx screwdrivers fit in the iriver screws!
13:44:40ashridahi don't really want it to explode in my desk, but i can't throw it into the bin
13:44:42LinusNCassandra: yes, you should bump it
13:44:45preglowtime for preglows hardware adventure
13:45:12ashridahpreglow: heh, i'm not even willing to 'skin' the stock firmware yet, mine's still in warranty
13:45:20ashridah(only for three more months tho)
13:45:42preglowi've probably got over year left
13:45:44CassandraDidn't seem to help though. It's still "forgetting" the changed value.
13:45:48LinusNCassandra: but it will only have the exact same effect
13:46:31LinusNhowever, it shouldn't happem when you rolo the exact same version of rockbox
13:46:41amiconnashridah: You should probably also look at
13:47:16*ashridah peers
13:47:58Cassandralinus: I am doing, unfortunately, and it's still not remembering I've changed it.
13:47:59preglowhah, that's a pretty flat battery
13:48:11LinusNmaybe you didn't save the settings before rolo:ing?
13:48:21LinusN(spin up the hard drive)
13:48:44ashridahamiconn: hah.
13:48:51Cassandra(Added weirdness: I can't load my test firmware with ON+F1, when it's in the root of the drive.)
13:49:11LinusNis it too big?
13:49:32Cassandralinus: I doubt it - boots fine with ROLO.
13:49:48LinusNrolo doesn't have the same size check as the archos boot loader
13:50:02CassandraHow big is too big?
13:50:19CassandraNope, 185k
13:50:57LinusNalso, the archos loader has some issues so it sometimes won't find AJBREC.AJZ even if it's there
13:51:16LinusNdirectory snoop can remedy that, see the FAQ
13:51:26Cassandrathat's probably what's happening. Ta.
13:53:19ashridahLinusN: care to offer a guess about how long it'll be before there's a working firmware loader for the h1xx?
13:53:31LinusNlemme guess.......
13:53:42LinusN.....not so long?
13:54:13ashridahspare-time permitting, as expected.
13:54:15preglowand the player still functions, total triumph
13:54:15CassandraWow - he usually says "when it's ready".
13:54:23dwihnoHow are you going to get the loader in a non-bdm box?
13:54:26LinusNi'm currently writing the boot loader code
13:54:43LinusNdwihno: with the firmware update feature in the iriver firmware
13:54:46dwihno"Linus evil boot loader ... please wait while formatting..."
13:54:53dwihnoLinusN: aah, neato! that's cool!
13:55:04dwihnothis will be so cool!
13:55:24LinusNmy main problem right now is how to make it small enough
13:55:41*ashridah can imagine
13:55:45LinusNcurrently, i end up with a huge blob of dead code
13:55:45preglowahh, assembly size optimizing
13:55:49preglownothing is that fun
13:55:51ashridahhow much empty space is there in the iriver firmware?
13:55:55dwihnoUse lzip ( ;D
13:56:05LinusNsince the rockbox firmware library has a lot of cross-references
13:56:16ashridahdwihno: hahah. yeah, push the compression to 100%, get a 0 byte file :)
13:56:24preglowLinusN: you aren't writing it in assembly?
13:56:32LinusNashridah: about 60-100k iirc
13:56:43dwihno\o/ :)
13:56:50ashridahLinusN: ah. more than i expected, tbh.
13:57:12LinusNthe code size isn't the main issue, it's the fact that i want to know exactly which code is included
13:57:22dwihnoaah, okay
13:57:33LinusNsor safety
13:58:15CassandraWhy does my generated "rockbox.ucl" file say "fake" in it?
13:58:35LinusNbecause you don't have the ucl packer
13:58:50[IDC]DragonCassandra: you don't need to bump the config version if you just add an entry at the table bottom
13:58:50CassandraAh. What's the CVS package name?
13:59:20LinusNCassandra: the ucl packer is not in our cvs
13:59:24Cassandraidc - need to add it in the middle, really, since it ought to be with the other recording settings.
13:59:37Cassandralinus: Oh, right.
13:59:44*LinusN is soooo curious
13:59:47[IDC]Dragonthat's just esthetic
13:59:54dwihnoCassandra: you need to download the ucl packer from that obenhumer guys page and patch it with something jörg wrote, afaik
14:00:00[IDC]Dragonplease add it at the bottom
14:00:27[IDC]Dragonin order not to break compatibility
14:00:29LinusNthen we move it when we do something that requires a bump
14:00:37CassandraOK. Makes sense
14:01:19[IDC]DragonI was pleased to notice that the ucl packer is in a cygwin package
14:02:03[IDC]Dragoneven 1.03 (the current version), with my patch
14:03:00LinusNeric is a nice guy
14:03:04dwihnowhat does your patch do?
14:03:24LinusNadds an option that doesn't compress
14:03:25[IDC]Dragonallow uncompressed ucl, for rombox
14:03:37dwihnoaah, okay
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14:41:42CassandraOK, that is weird.
14:42:46CassandraI have definitely wiped all the old directory entries from my drive. However, it's still not booting ajbrec.ajz with F1+ON but loading the default Archos firmware instead.
14:44:13Zagordo you have another file with a name starting with "ajb"?
14:47:34LinusNCassandra: which jukebox model?
14:47:45CassandraJBFM downflashed to v1
14:47:50CassandraI mean
14:47:53LinusNthere you have it
14:48:21LinusNthe scrambling is different between v2 and fm
14:48:50LinusNthe archos boot loader looks for an fm file
14:49:04LinusNand you probably built a v2 file
14:49:14CassandraNope, built an fm file.
14:49:28CassandraIn which case, it's probably the other way round.
14:49:36*Cassandra slaps forehead.
14:49:38CassandraThank you.
14:50:00LinusNwhy downflash? rombox?
14:50:40LinusNyou needy people, can't even waste 200k of mp3 buffer :-)
14:51:10CassandraAlthough now I have the iRiver, squeezing the last bit of battery life out of the jbfm isn't so important.
14:51:47CassandraBut RomBox is ke3l. All my friends think I'm teh l33t. Or something.
14:54:49 Quit ashridah ("sleep (yay... 25 years old. i feel so old. someone get me some false teeth and a balcony to sit in and carp from")
14:55:32LinusNold at 25! what an insult to us 36-year-olds :-)
14:56:19CassandraShit. It's still not remembering this setting. Do I need to worry about where in the user_settings struct I put the new variable?
14:57:09LinusNis it resetting all the settings?
14:57:21CassandraNo, just the new one.
14:57:30LinusNthat's a clue
14:57:50CassandraI know, but I don't know what it means.
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14:58:38LinusNis it reset when you enter the settings menu?
14:59:53CassandraDoesn't seem to be.
15:00:36LinusNok, so you have a new setting which doesn't survive a reboot?
15:00:56CassandraIt's not being saved.
15:01:17CassandraWhich means I need to update the settings save routine?
15:01:19LinusNdo you know that for a fact, or could it just as well not being loaded?
15:01:41CassandraTrue, it could be not being loaded.
15:02:25LinusNcould you show me the entry in hd_bits?
15:02:55 Quit Taxi|3 ()
15:03:33Cassandra {1, S_O(rec_start), false, "Start in record screen", off_on },
15:03:52[IDC]DragonCassandra: you don't need to modify any save/load code, just add an enty to the table
15:04:36CassandraThat's what I thought, IDC - but there's obviously *something* I'm missing.
15:04:37LinusNCassandra: looks ok
15:05:04LinusNwhere in main.c do you go to the record screen?
15:05:43CassandraJust after resume. And then I fake getting back out by calling the record menu and the main menu.
15:06:04LinusNbut it never enters the menu
15:06:09LinusNthe screen
15:06:27CassandraNope, and the setting is always "no" when I come to look at it after booting.
15:06:53LinusNok, how do you restart?
15:07:27CassandraWell I've tried it with ROLO and with F1+ON so far. Effect is the same with both ways.
15:07:44LinusNand you use the safe shutdown, of course
15:08:16CassandraUse the v2 power off. I've seen the "shutting down" appear.
15:08:44LinusNdo you call settings_save()?
15:09:07CassandraMe? No.
15:09:23CassandraI'd expect the shut down to do that.
15:09:54CassandraAnd we know that it's saving changes to other settings. I tried with the editable recording setting.
15:09:54LinusNthe settings aren't saved until you leave the settings screen
15:10:11LinusNback to the main menu
15:10:12CassandraOK - let me try again.
15:10:27LinusNin fact, not until you leave the main menu
15:11:34crash_LinusN: topic isnt really acurate anymore, isnt it? ;)
15:12:06Mode"#rockbox +o LinusN " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
15:12:24BagderI can't make myself op anymore
15:12:28Topic"Business as usual" by LinusN (
15:12:36LinusNBagder: you can't?
15:12:45LinusNsince when?
15:12:46Bagderit just stopped working
15:12:48crash_how about : iriver bootloader is coming, i see it at the horizont ;)
15:12:50Bagdersince a month or so
15:13:13LinusNhave you reregistered your nick?
15:13:32Bagder"An access level of [10] is required for [OP] on #rockbox"
15:13:56CassandraRight. Exiting the menu makes no difference. It's saving the Editable frames setting, but not the record on start one.
15:13:58BagderI am registered and identified
15:15:09Bagdertime for coffee!
15:15:40CassandraThe explanation is obvious. Rockbox hates me.
15:15:56LinusNBagder: adi|home is your man
15:16:17LinusNCassandra: must be that
15:16:59CassandraSomeone else needs to patch it so that it doesn't hate me, then.
15:17:50preglowremove the prejudice ai? never!
15:18:27LinusNit's the girlie-germs protection thread
15:18:53preglowyou'll have to wait for rockbox to turn 12 or something
15:18:56preglowit'll be better then
15:19:42[IDC]DragonLinusN: the topic should be descriptive to this channel
15:20:00 Join pike [0] (
15:20:02LinusNisn't it? :-)
15:20:03[IDC]Dragonit's what people see when browsing the list of chatrooms
15:20:23pike(swe only) damn shame I wasnt fast
15:20:30preglowi think most of the people come here from the website
15:20:43CassandraCooties! Yes! It all suddenly makes sense. ;)
15:20:56[IDC]Dragonsome pop in and clueless ask what this is about
15:21:00Topic"Rockbox - Coolest firmware around" by LinusN (
15:21:16Zagor"Inkurant produkt" lol
15:21:38[IDC]Dragonpehaps something about portable mp3 players?
15:22:15CassandraI also had a look at implementing F1 to do modal changes like I suggested on the list, but I can't see a way to do it without completely screwing the program flow.
15:22:30CassandraSo I decided against doing that.
15:23:49preglowwisely so
15:24:36pikedoes rockbox have any visualizations or spectrum meters in it's current version ?
15:24:55preglownot the archos version, at least
15:24:57preglowso probablynot
15:25:20Zagorwe have the oscillograph
15:25:37preglowdoes the archos players allow you to read the audio data?
15:25:53pikethe iriver remote, it's just dumb duplicate of the org screen, so everything it shows it sent to it, it doesnt have any builtin "intelligence" ?
15:26:05preglowpike: no
15:26:08LinusNit's a separate screen
15:26:14Zagordifferent screen dimension
15:26:17LinusNand separate keyboard
15:26:17Bagderits darned cool
15:26:26LinusNBagder: ack
15:26:32pikewhat interface between iriver<->remote?
15:26:42pikespeed etc
15:26:44LinusNspi and adc
15:26:56preglowLinusN: adc for the buttons?
15:27:11LinusNexcept for the hold switch
15:27:11preglowis that a common design? that's the first time i've heard of such a solution
15:27:23LinusNadc for buttons?
15:27:27LinusNcommon, yes
15:27:40 Quit R3nTiL ()
15:27:46 Join c0g0 [0] (~keranamu@
15:27:53c0g0hey anyone here?
15:27:55preglowgoes for showing me how much i know about electronics
15:28:00preglowc0g0: apparently
15:28:05c0g0ya ;D
15:28:13pikeLinusN: how many bps is the interface?
15:28:29LinusNhaven't measured
15:28:33preglowpike: you thinking of having a spectrum analyzer on the remote, or something?
15:28:41c0g0i wonder something about the new archos pma400 ... will it be possible to show all versions of divx and xvid on it?
15:28:43LinusNi don't know the lcd limits
15:28:46c0g0since it has linux...
15:28:55pikepreglow: there's an idea :)
15:28:56LinusNc0g0: i have absolutely no idea
15:29:29c0g0but it says only mpeg4 sp in the specs..
15:29:34pikeon iriver fw, if tag is too long, it scrolls it. if you ffw simultaneously, it can "lag" somewhat, so the speed is prob not much to celebrate
15:29:35preglowc0g0: that's more a question of how good the archos coders are
15:29:39 Join webguest43 [0] (
15:29:46c0g0but wouldnt it be possible for someone to code it?
15:29:49preglowc0g0: linux doesn't enter into it
15:29:56Zagorc0g0: i assume it requires dsp-adapted codecs
15:30:06preglowc0g0: possibly, depends on how much they've modified the kernel
15:30:24preglowc0g0: they have to release the source they use anyway, so yes, it should be possible
15:30:28LinusNpike: the spi speed isn't necessarily the ussue
15:30:29c0g0there is a sdk out... but i dont know anything about that stuff thou
15:30:37webguest43hi ! quick question: do you think you will implement FLAC on the iRiver ?
15:30:39 Join jyp [0] (
15:30:45LinusNwebguest43: yes we will
15:30:47preglowi can't see a reason for not doing it
15:30:56Zagorc0g0: the dsp docs is TI property, so you won't get to see them
15:31:33 Quit webguest43 (Client Quit)
15:31:37c0g0so probably it wont be able to show all versions more then any other player?
15:31:52preglowyou'll have to test it to find out
15:32:16c0g0hehe true...
15:32:17Zagornot unless a) archos spends a lot of time and money to support it b) someone digs up the dsp docs and spends the time
15:32:25 Join webguest43 [0] (
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15:33:26c0g0btw does anyone know if the usual released movies are playable on the players like archos or iriver or any other?
15:33:42 Part jyp ("Leaving")
15:33:58c0g0i guess tehy manly release in xvid nowadays...
15:35:31webguest43another question: can one specifically donate to the rockbox iriver port ?
15:35:37c0g0so mainly most movies are playanle?
15:35:40pikedo the portable players really manage 1Mbps xvids ?
15:35:44LinusNwebguest43: not really
15:36:08webguest43bugger, would have liked to invite you for a beer.
15:36:15preglowinvite me!
15:36:30webguest43you are hereby invited
15:36:36LinusNi'd like a beer too!
15:36:48preglowif i'm ever in sweden, i'll let you know, heh
15:36:56Bagderhey, I made a iRiver-sized rockbox logo! ;-)
15:37:06preglowi'll even promise to write a code
15:37:14preglowBagder: can we see?
15:37:18c0g0hmm look at this:
15:37:23c0g0Yes you can run any application on this device. There are allready hundreds of emulators for SNES, NES, there is voice-over-IP software, word processing software to edit docs, image editors, video editing.. Many cool programs you can for example find on - those apps are for the Sharp Zaurus, which is the only other PDA running Linux and is only available in Japan. Some of those programs just need to be recompiled for the exact
15:37:25webguest43last question: will you ever support the irivers remote ?
15:37:29Bagderpreglow: sure, build the simulator for iRiver ;-)
15:37:47Bagderor beg Linus to take a photo of his unit showing it
15:38:02Bagderwebguest43: yes
15:38:20Bagderthat "ever" makes it safe to say yes ;-)
15:38:21preglowi'll check out the code once i'm done programming a vst plug for a guy
15:38:57preglowwhich i'll be in a couple of days, with some luck
15:39:19c0g0so the only way to make the player play all versions is to code for that particular dsp?
15:39:38webguest43ok, then I think i will get a h-140 very soon, hate to see all the DRM stuff come up on the new players
15:39:51preglowc0g0: my guess is that they have already made it compatible with most warezed movies, since that's what i guess most people will watch anyway
15:40:12LinusNwebguest43: do that
15:40:18webguest43need to sell my christmas-present-ipod first though, anyone here want it ?
15:40:28LinusN /kick webguest43
15:40:40CassandraI'll take it for free.
15:40:49webguest43was tough to keep a smile on my face in front of my mum
15:41:03webguest43she was so proud she bought me something technical.....
15:41:05preglow" wow, this is.... adequate... thanks! "
15:41:54preglowi like the ipod user interface, at least
15:41:56c0g0preglow: so u think most players out there will play warez movies?
15:42:20preglowc0g0: i have no idea, really, but if i were a coder for those players, i'd try to make them compatible
15:43:00c0g0ya hehe true..
15:43:58 Part LinusN
15:45:58Zagorc0g0: i think it will NOT play most movies. their earlier players haven't.
15:46:45Zagorvery few hardware players support xvid, in fact
15:47:18CassandraYay, that works.
15:48:28CassandraEven interacts correctly with resume now.
15:48:32CassandraI am a happy bunny.
15:49:36[IDC]Dragonand why weren't you beforehand?
15:50:07CassandraCause it wasn't working.
15:50:19CassandraNow to submit the fruits of my labour to Sourceforge.
15:51:45dwihnohow do you divert heat from the other components when soldering let's say, a circuit board?
15:53:00Zagordwihno: you don't. work quickly so the heat doesn't spread.
15:53:35c0g0Zagor: hmm i guess most movies are compressed in the hardest methods, wich is not SP anyway... so maybe it does not work..
15:54:36Lynx_c0g0: see, I told you yesterday: get a subnotebook ;)
15:55:36 Part Zagor
15:56:15dwihnoHm. I need to practice the soldering stuffs :)
15:57:15preglowif you want to solder mp3 players, then yes indeed, you need to
15:59:36c0g0whats that? :P
15:59:43Lynx_c0g0: a small notebook
16:00:15c0g0he.. but can i play all versions of movies on it? ;D
16:00:37Lynx_c0g0: even from cd's and dvd's if its not too small ;)
16:02:01BagderCassandra: I like that option
16:03:16c0g0hehe :D
16:04:19dwihnoAnyone got good ideas for soldering practicing?
16:06:11[IDC]Dragon8 MB mod ;-)
16:07:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:08:33dwihnocome on.
16:08:37dwihnobe serious for a sec :)
16:10:41[IDC]Dragonstart with what you need and want
16:10:53[IDC]Dragonthat gives best motivation
16:11:20CassandraThanks, badger. It seemed like the sort of thing some people would find incredibly useful.
16:11:34Cassandra(Not me, as it happens. God knows why I wrote it.)
16:12:21CassandraErm, bagder, I mean.
16:12:30CassandraBloody keyboard macros in my brain.
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16:24:44dwihno[IDC]Dragon: true... I've soldered a 3.5mm connector which was failing. It was fun!
16:27:53[IDC]Dragonproper tools are essential
16:29:53dwihnosuch as?
16:30:04dwihnoI'm a complete newbie when it comes to soldering... Haven't done it in a dog's age
16:30:57[IDC]Dragonfor just a connector a cheap iron may do
16:31:48bagawk[IDC]Dragon, what iron do you use? i have a cheap 15w
16:31:53[IDC]Dragonbut if small and bigger metal parts are involved (like shielding), a regulated station does a better job
16:32:09bagawk(and a switachable 20/40w also, which i use on larger things)
16:32:36[IDC]Dragonas a student, I used a 30W or so
16:32:54TuDocan anyone advise me on how to port rockbox to Gmini 220?
16:33:00[IDC]Dragonnow I have a Weller station
16:33:13bagawkTuDo, get a devoloper to :)
16:33:37bagawkA few people are working on just that
16:35:20[IDC]Dragon;-) has routing problems
16:35:30crash_for a rough overview have a look at
16:36:02TuDothnx :)
16:36:24bagawkwrong place :)
16:40:31CassandraDamn - found another bug.
16:40:59TuDo #gmemu
16:41:08dwihnoI think my soldering iron is 30w... is it too hot?
16:41:55 Quit TuDo ("Chatzilla 0.9.66 [Mozilla rv:1.7.5/20041202]")
16:44:25bagawkCould be
16:45:05bagawkJust depends on the project :)
16:45:06[IDC]Dragonbut neither temperature nor sound quality are measured in W ;-)
16:45:28 Join jyp [0] (
16:47:22bagawk[IDC]Dragon, you did not pay 399$ did you? :)
16:47:53 Quit ze ("oh shit")
16:53:42bagawkThat is a funny one ;)\
16:54:58CassandraAlways nice to fix your own bugs before someone else gets to them.
16:57:58 Join R3nTiL [0] (~zorroz@
16:58:04CassandraNicer not to make them in the first place, but we live in an imperfect world.
17:02:12bagawkTime to get hower and go to school
17:02:15bagawkbyee :)
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17:07:31 Quit c0g0 ()
17:19:22Lynx_is there a software mp3 player that does something like the MDB?
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18:56:33nobbyguess not...
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23:10:22CpuMan2001my archos's screen is blank, though it still works internally, as the backlight works and I can still hear music
23:11:22Bagdersounds like the LCD is broke somehow
23:12:04CpuMan2001how would I be able to fix that
23:12:58amiconnCpuMan2001: What model do you have?
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23:28:49CassandraIs anyone here who understands how memory management is done in Rockbox. I'm thinking particularly of when manipulating strings such as filenames.
23:29:19Bagdermanipulating how?
23:30:55amiconnWhat do you need to know?
23:30:55amiconnThe general memory management within rockbox is static.
23:30:56CassandraWell, looking at the virtual keyboard code, it looks like the code just grows the buffer infinitely. I can't work out how one ensures that the buffer you hand it has room to grow at the end.
23:31:22Bagderin general you need to pass along a size as well
23:31:33Bagderor just "know" the size of the static buffer
23:32:25CassandraWell, the routine is passed a size, but like I say, it can increase that. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to enter a filename longer than what you started with.
23:32:52CassandraBasically what I'm asking is how do we know it's not going to overwrite something else important.
23:33:01Bagderpossibly it doesn't
23:33:06Bagderand that's badness
23:33:11Bagderit needs to check for it
23:33:27*Cassandra nods.
23:34:21amiconnNope, it does check. The size you pass it is the maximum length the filename can grow to.
23:34:42Bagderok, good
23:35:44CassandraAh, yes. I see it now. It looked to me like it was being called with that set to the length of the string though, which is not good if it's true.
23:35:50amiconnapps/recorder/keyboard.c, line 385
23:37:42Cassandraempirically I have to be wrong about that.
23:43:21CassandraAh - I'm confusing sizeof and strlen. It's obviously way too long since I seriously wrote C.
23:44:58*Cassandra is trying to add a directory selection interface to the keyboard. Unfortunately I seem to be hitting implementation issues.
23:45:05 Join LinusN [0] (
23:45:05crash_can someone tell me how i can build a simulated target vor iriver?
23:45:17Bagdercrash_: on what OS?
23:45:20LinusN[IDC]Dragon: u there?
23:45:25crash_configure works fine but when i "make" it tells me nothing to be done
23:45:51[IDC]DragonLinusN, I'm here
23:45:53crash_make[1]: Nothing to be done for `all'.
23:46:02LinusNhaving uart boot probs
23:46:10Bagdercrash_: and I guess nothing was built?
23:46:18[IDC]Dragonwhat kind?
23:46:27Bagdercrash_: I'll rebuild mine from scratch now to try
23:46:33[IDC]Dragonand what hardware?
23:46:46LinusN[IDC]Dragon: never stops downloading monitor
23:47:05crash_Bagder: i feel sorry, think i saw an error where none has been
23:47:20LinusN[IDC]Dragon: works!
23:47:21Bagderbuilds for me
23:47:33LinusN(wrong com port)
23:47:47crash_i think i have now a simulated iriver working, didnt test rockboxui :/
23:48:05crash_Bagder: you told it would be pissible to see rockbox logo iriver size? :)
23:48:08[IDC]DragonLinusN, what box are you on?
23:48:19LinusNrec v1 (Bagders)
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23:48:25Bagdercrash_: yeps, when you start the sim, it'll pop up for a brief moment
23:48:34[IDC]Dragonnew flash?
23:48:41LinusNwill change it now
23:48:45 Join ashridah [0] (
23:48:54crash_ok its maybe a qarter second ;)
23:49:19Bagdercrash_: yes, but it is longer in the target and you can see it again when checking version
23:49:26[IDC]Dragonare you using uart_boot on Windows?
23:49:59[IDC]Dragonno Linux port byproduct :-(
23:50:56LinusNwould have been nice, but my time is extremely limited...
23:51:55crash_Bagder: i've seen, nice :)
23:52:07[IDC]Dragonno worry, it's not used so often to justify
23:52:07crash_crazy how much space left on the iriver display in settings menu
23:52:27Bagderyou can tell the Archos LCD is smaller ;-)
23:52:53amiconnLinusN: Are there some scans (or at least front photos) of the iRiver somewhere? (Unstripped of course)
23:53:47crash_amicon: yes in the wiki
23:54:00*amiconn checks
23:55:41amiconnI know of those.
23:55:53amiconn<amiconn> LinusN: Are there some scans (or at least front photos) of the iRiver somewhere? ===>> Unstripped of course <<===
23:56:25crash_hmm think i missunderstood unstripped
23:56:38amiconnunstripped == not stripped :)
23:56:54amiconnHmm, maybe this was unclear
23:57:53ashridahamiconn: you mean of the external casing, or of the pcb pre disassembly?
23:57:54amiconnBasically, I need the iRiver equivalent to this:
23:58:01crash_think i have to train my active vocabulary ;)
23:58:22crash_i could make you one of the h3xx ;)
23:58:32Bagderamiconn: I don't think anyone of us has taken/scanned a good photo
23:58:44ashridahthere's plenty of pictures of the 3xx and 1xx on

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