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#rockbox log for 2005-01-21

00:01:09amiconn[IDC]Dragon: I'm checking for unused LANG (& VOICE) ids. Already found one (not voiced): LANG_FM_BUTTONBAR_EDIT. Could you confirm this?
00:01:14amiconnI have no FM unit...
00:01:39Bagderjyp: another style nit: the start brace for functions should be below the function name
00:03:25jypPerhaps could be updated to mention that
00:04:08Bagderit could be more explicit, I agree
00:05:52 Join midk [0] (
00:06:16jypIn fat.c ...
00:06:30jypline 1197,
00:07:02jypthere's a format string unsupported by the formatter of the firmware, i think
00:07:37 Join LinusN [0] (
00:07:41jypshould this be fixed ?
00:07:43Bagderand here he comes
00:07:49quelsaruksleep time
00:07:57 Quit quelsaruk ("KVIrc 'System Virtue'")
00:08:00LinusNjyp: what's the point with the SET_ATA_xxx() macros?
00:08:03BagderI'm not sure what LDEBUGF() is used for
00:08:09webguest02the problem wasnt the polarisation!
00:08:12jypheh :)
00:08:16webguest02it was my car adapter!
00:08:23jypSetting a register isn't as simple as REG = VALUE
00:08:29jypso I had to change all these into SET_REG(value)
00:08:39webguest02first i used the creative jukebox with has ac
00:08:39LinusNi know, but why the extra macro level?
00:08:47webguest02than my new has dc
00:09:06LinusNwhy not do SET_REG(ATA_xxx, value)?
00:09:08webguest02i think that the car adapter only runs with ac
00:10:08LinusNi see no point in this:
00:10:10LinusN#define SET_ATA_SELECT(v) (SET_REG(ATA_SELECT,v))
00:10:45LinusN(i have done almost exactly the same thing for the iriver ata code)
00:10:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:10:52jypWell, that was an easy way to change it
00:10:54LinusNexcept for the extra macro level
00:10:59BagderI agree with Linus
00:11:08gromit`i agree with jyp
00:11:24 Join elinenbe_ [0] (
00:11:28jyphey gromit` ;P
00:11:47elinenbe_jyp: nice additions... nice work!
00:12:03elinenbe_very impressive... you work quickly!
00:12:09LinusNbut my macro is called WRITE_ATA_REG() instead :-)
00:12:14elinenbe_very impressive... you work quickly!
00:12:37jypheh ...
00:12:47BagderLinusN: did jyp's commit cause much trouble with merging?
00:12:54LinusNtons :-)
00:13:03LinusNbut never mind
00:13:06jypI'm not emotionally attached to these details :P
00:13:22LinusNwas there a reason for the extra level?
00:14:10jypActually I hoped to move the SET_ATA_* out of the ifdef
00:14:23jypand keep only one SET_REG macro inside
00:15:36LinusNwould be a lot better
00:15:49elinenbe_LinusN: are you merging iriver code?
00:16:01LinusNwas just about to when i saw the commit :-)
00:16:19LinusNjyp beat me to it
00:17:19elinenbe_LinusN: what is forthcoming?
00:17:22preglowwhat iriver code? :VV
00:17:35LinusNelinenbe: boot loader
00:18:07elinenbe_!!! :) !!! :) !!!!
00:18:15elinenbe_ah... now I can put my iriver to use?
00:18:29preglowLinusN: its done`
00:18:35preglowLinusN: retry: it's done?
00:18:45LinusNnot entirely
00:18:54LinusNa few quirks left
00:18:55preglowwhat's left?
00:19:06LinusNfor one, it doesn't work! :-)
00:19:07pregloware these quirks that will devestate my player? :P
00:19:23preglowwell, that _is_ a bit of a show stopper
00:19:24LinusNthe lcd init fails, and the rolo isn't correct
00:19:49LinusN...and i have to rewrite a lot of ata code :-)
00:20:04preglowhow jolly
00:20:06amiconnjyp: Is there a reason for changing asm to __asm__ ?
00:20:18preglowwhy, isn't the old code good enough?
00:20:23jypamiconn, gcc/calmrisc chokes on it
00:21:06elinenbe_so much development on the Rockbox front these past weeks... sure is exciting!
00:21:48preglowi most certainly agree
00:23:23amiconnI found 9 LANG ids that are seem to be unused, but not empty & marked as deprecated...
00:23:44preglowwhy would rockbox on irivers need a usb handler, btw? i thought all usb stuff was handled by hardware.
00:25:18LinusNpreglow: like on the archos jukebox
00:25:37LinusNthe software needs to give away the access to the hard drive to the usb chip
00:26:03LinusNand then wait until the usb is done before "taking" the hard drive again
00:27:07preglowwon't the usb chip just raise a pin or something when it's connected, so rockbox can just park the drive and twiddle its thumbs?
00:27:23preglowor is it more complicated?
00:27:41LinusNpreglow: are you a programmer?
00:27:59preglowLinusN: yes
00:28:13LinusNthen i thought you would understand
00:28:29LinusNyes, it is as "easy" as reading a pin from the usb chip
00:28:53LinusNbut then rockbox needs to stop all access to the hard drive until the usb chip is done
00:29:06LinusNthat is done by the usb handler
00:29:29LinusNit broadcasts a USB_CONNECTED message to all threads, telling them to stop
00:29:31 Quit [IDC]Dragon ()
00:29:57LinusNthen it awaits the ACK from all threads before giving the drive to the usb chip
00:30:00preglowahh, so it's thread based
00:30:22preglowi haven't studied the source too much yet
00:31:18jypLinusN, I've factored out the SET_* macros
00:32:26jypDoing so for the GET_* is somewhat more tricky
00:33:06LinusNcommit the set_ for now
00:33:14jypdone :P
00:35:34LinusNi don't get it, the code is still full of SET_ATA_SECTOR(xxx) etc
00:36:46jypI just made the SET_ATA* definitions machine independant
00:37:43LinusNbut why can't it be SET_REG(ATA_SECTOR, value) in the code?
00:38:25jypNo reason; I just didn't know it was what you wanted
00:38:58jypA single (but clever) search and replace can do it
00:39:02LinusNthat was the "extra layer" i was talking about
00:39:09elinenbe_Linus, is your M3 interview up online?
00:40:29LinusNthe magazing will be out next week, and i'm not sure it will ever be online
00:42:41elinenbe_ah, someone will have to scan it and put it in the wiki :)
00:43:07jypLinusN, since I changed nothing is the "real" ata code,
00:43:48jypperhaps you can just replace the bulk part of ata.c with what you have
00:44:13jypjust fixing the WRITE/SET mismatch ?
00:44:43jyp(only a name if i understand correctly)
00:46:50jypI'm sort of mis-equipped to do the search/replace I was talking about
00:48:02 Quit webguest02 ("CGI:IRC")
00:55:12 Join Stryke` [0] (
00:57:23amiconnIf I know the exact commit date of a change, is it possible to get a list which other files were changed in the same commit?
00:57:53amiconnHow can I achieve that?
00:58:42jypDiff by date just before & just after ?
01:01:12amiconnAh, I just found by chance what I was looking for. I needed to know which file a moved function came from.
01:07:26 Join ripnetUK [0] (
01:07:47ripnetUKDo I smell iRiver progress :)
01:08:27LinusNwell, soon
01:09:15ripnetUKcool... thanks for all your work on this LinusN :)
01:10:50 Quit ripnetUK (Client Quit)
01:16:52 Part LinusN
01:17:47jypbye all
01:17:48 Quit jyp ("poof!")
01:27:06 Quit preglow ("b")
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01:36:18 Part jyp ("zoom!")
02:04:56 Quit Stryke` ("Friends don't let friends listen to Anti-Flag")
02:10:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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07:21:32 Join ashridah [0] (
07:21:54ashridahhmm. apparently the iriver H10 still supports usb storage as a music transfer medium if you get the korean version
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08:04:20 Join lImbus [0] (
08:04:24lImbushop in
08:10:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:41:04 Join Zagor [242] (
09:12:41 Nick Lynx_awy is now known as Lynx_ (HydraIRC@
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10:01:43 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (
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10:04:02[IDC]DragonLinusN: how's slicing off the rest of Rockbox working out, for your bootloader?
10:04:29LinusNsince the firmware is a library, i can pick only the stuff i want
10:04:33[IDC]Dragona similar "emergency Rockbox" would be nice for the first flash image, saving space
10:04:42LinusNonly that there are a few cross-references i need to handle
10:05:01[IDC]Dragonall those debug hacks, perhaps?
10:05:25LinusNso i define a few dummy functions in the bootloader to prevent some modules from being loaded from the firmware lib
10:05:43 Join amiconn [0] (
10:05:48LinusNlike mpeg_stop() being called from various places
10:06:10LinusNso i define a dummy mpeg_stop in my bootloaded main.c
10:06:32 Join bobTHC [0] (
10:06:37[IDC]Dragonwill be interesting. Bootbox for Archos would allow to distribute a firmware image with 100% our code
10:06:47bobTHChi folks
10:06:48LinusNbasically, the bootloader is a new application
10:06:53LinusNho bobTHC
10:07:36[IDC]Dragondoesn't the firmware library carry all unused functions, too?
10:07:36LinusNi was thinking about rockboot, but bootbox is better
10:07:52Bagdera bootbox is what your shoes is put in when you buy them in a store? :-)
10:08:05[IDC]Dragonit doesn't rock
10:08:16LinusNyes, but i don't want to load mpeg.c, because it references so much other code, so the boot becomes very big
10:08:20ZagorBagder: no, it's a storage box for the luggage compartment of your car
10:08:36*Bagder giggles
10:09:08Zagorwhy does every little snippet of code need a separate name?
10:09:10[IDC]Dragonso you have a special firmware lib without mpeg.c
10:09:11LinusN"rockboot", some kind of shoes for climbing, right? :-)
10:09:41[IDC]Dragonit needs at least a directory name
10:09:47LinusN[IDC]Dragon: no, i told you, i define mpeg_stop() in my bootloader, then the linker doesn't load mpeg.o from the firmware lib
10:09:50BagderLinusN: yeps, those boots you have when you carry your bag to collect stones in: the rockbox
10:10:11[IDC]Dragonok, so the linker is smart enough to eliminate dead code
10:10:20LinusN[IDC]Dragon: no, it doesn't
10:10:41[IDC]Dragonnow I'm confused
10:10:43LinusNit just doesn't load unneeded modules from the library
10:10:54LinusNthat's the whole point of a library
10:10:58***No seen item changed, no save performed.
10:10:58 Join pike [0] (
10:11:13pikeyou probably seen this already?
10:11:30[IDC]Dragonso it eliminated on a file (.o) basis
10:11:53LinusNyou call it elimination, i call it selective loading
10:12:14Zagori think "bootloader" is a good directory name
10:12:26LinusNZagor: how boring .-)
10:12:35[IDC]Dragonpike: I like Jenna
10:12:57[IDC]Dragonbut don't think it'll influence me buying
10:13:36Zagorpike: Reigncom?
10:13:59pikeI dunno
10:14:12LinusNtime to reboot
10:14:14 Part LinusN
10:14:37Zagoraha. "ReignCom produces portable music players under the iRiver brand name."
10:14:59Zagori didn't know that
10:15:01[IDC]Dragonnow you know what's behind it
10:15:37[IDC]Dragonand whom to email
10:18:45[IDC]DragonBill Gates presented the H10 at the CES...
10:19:27 Quit Trevmar (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:21:56[IDC]DragoniRiver europe is in Germany (Eschborn)
10:23:49pikebtw, has iriver contacted any of the teammembers?
10:25:42 Join LinusN [0] (
10:26:41Bagderperhaps they sent a flash and it got caught in the spam filter! ;-P
10:27:00Bagderflash seems to be their preference
10:27:31Zagorindeed. flashblock is a nice forefox extension.
10:27:48LinusNblocks the entire iriver site
10:28:05BagderI don't have any plugin for flash installed
10:35:10 Quit lImbus (" HydraIRC -> <- s0 d4Mn l33t |t'z 5c4rY!")
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11:10:19amiconnZagor: The stuck-in-dir bug is still there :( I consistently get this when resuming a playlist, let it play a number of songs, and then it either ends or I stop it.
11:20:06Zagoryeah i saw the mail
11:23:31Lynx_how much "ram" does the recorder have?
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11:31:52bobTHCouch big split :/
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12:10:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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12:23:59LinusNLynx_: 2Mbytes
12:26:57Lynx_LinusN: hmm, that would fit my whole database for faster browsing..:)
12:27:19LinusNwhile the music is playing? i think not
12:27:47Lynx_LinusN: no, but after start for making a playlist. well, just a thought.
12:28:09Zagorswitching buffers would mean more spinup, not less
12:28:59Lynx_i thought load db once, assemble playlist, unload db, start playing. but it's not really practicable, i see that.
12:29:26Zagorit would be practical for that specific case, but only then
12:29:45Lynx_btw, are there any plans to inclue the genre tag in the db?
12:30:00Zagorgenre and year will be added later
12:30:14Lynx_Zagor: that's what i mean, it's too specific a task to justify including it as a feature
12:30:22Lynx_nice ;)
13:19:40NibbIerthis musicbrainz is amazing
13:20:55Lynx_NibbIer: cool, eh?
13:21:14NibbIerit does analyse the music?
13:21:51Lynx_NibbIer: yes, i don't know exacly how though as i'm not a programmer, but i always imagine it calculates something like a hash on the files.
13:22:32NibbIerwell i use some linux script at the first place, because its much faster, but the stuff this one does not get.... mb does a good job with this
13:24:18Lynx_hmm, actually the system uses the acoustic features of the files, works also with ogg and wav
13:25:18Lynx_NibbIer: how do you use it under linux?
13:29:25NibbIeri use mb under windows
13:29:38NibbIermy mp3s are on a linux server
13:29:46NibbIerso i sort them using
13:29:56NibbIerand the rest with mb using the samba share/windows
13:41:07[IDC]Dragon(OT) hey gurus, does somebody know of a C to C converter?
13:41:23[IDC]DragonC plusplus I mean
13:41:50[IDC]Dragonthe stupit CGIIRC always eats 'plus' characters
13:41:54Zagori would be scared if i ever saw one :)
13:42:12Zagorjust imagine the C code it would produce. brrr.
13:42:36[IDC]Dragonas long as a C compiler understands it, I'm fine
13:42:37Zagorcome to think of it, the first c++ compilers were non-native and did produce c code. search for "cfront"
13:43:29*[IDC]Dragon googles
13:43:36 Join Medaglia [0] (
13:50:36 Join El_Barto2 [0] (
13:51:01El_Barto2do you know what voltage the achroch recorder 20 has?
13:52:32Zagorhas? you mean wants for charging?
13:53:18dwihnocenter tip positive
13:53:37dwihnoOtherwise, 4,8v
13:53:45El_Barto2not voltage ...cant explain it :)
13:53:49El_Barto2dc or ac? ;9
13:54:02dwihnoac/dc! :)
13:55:06El_Barto2cant be ;)
13:55:29El_Barto2the input schould be dc right?
13:57:00Zagoryou can use any voltage from 9 to 12. i use 12 myself, it speeds up charging a bit.
13:57:18dwihnoZagor: You don't harm the charging circuits by using 12v?
13:59:01El_Barto2and would it be better to use 2,3A batteries?
13:59:22El_Barto2how much longer would than the player play?
13:59:55Zagora bit :)
14:02:16LinusNto be safe, either use the original charger, or a regulated 12V
14:02:34LinusNr e g u l a t e d
14:03:53El_Barto2and how much Ampere does the original charger have?
14:04:27LinusNall this is in the FAQ
14:06:47El_Barto2faq on rockbox site?
14:07:04LinusNthe battery faq, to be precise
14:11:01***No seen item changed, no save performed.
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14:22:49El_Barto2an how much Ampere does the player need?
14:23:01El_Barto2i think more than 600mA right?
14:23:32El_Barto2the archos recorder 20..
14:25:51 Join Bagder_ [0] (
14:38:37LinusNEl_Barto2: that's also in the faq, the original is 600mA
14:39:09El_Barto2thats what the charger gives you
14:39:17El_Barto2but i think the player needs more
14:39:31LinusNwhy do you think that?
14:39:44El_Barto2cause you cant run the player without batteries..
14:39:58Bagder_you can never do that
14:40:08El_Barto2i know ;)
14:40:19LinusNin fact, you can, but then you need a lot more power
14:40:32LinusNmore that 1A
14:40:38El_Barto2thats what i wanted to know ;)
14:40:39LinusNto spin up the hard drive
14:40:50El_Barto2so the player needs more than 600 mA ;)
14:41:11LinusNnot to charge, but to run
14:41:30El_Barto2that exactly i wanted to know ;)
14:41:42LinusNto pe precise, the _hard drive_ needs that much
14:41:45El_Barto2but how much i cant find nowhere
14:42:02LinusNthat's probably because few people have cared to find out
14:42:11El_Barto2hehe :)
14:43:13 Quit Bagder (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:43:27 Nick Bagder_ is now known as Bagder (
14:43:32ZagorLinusN: don't you still need to shortcut the battery connectors? I know I had to do that to run my player without batteries.
14:43:32El_Barto2so would it be possible to connect an external current adpater with more than 1 A to run the player without batteries?
14:44:24El_Barto2but i you shortcut it the player cant charge the batteries!
14:44:48Zagoruh, yeah. i wanted to run WITHOUT batteries
14:44:50El_Barto2or do you use an flexible bridge?
14:45:03El_Barto2like a jumpe ;)
14:45:38Zagori don't understand what you want. do you want to run with or without batteries?
14:45:44El_Barto2both ;)
14:46:01El_Barto2like with my creative jukebox ;)
14:46:08El_Barto2an all other normal devices..
14:46:28Zagorplease explain more. you are talking in riddles.
14:46:32Bagdermost devices have the batteris in
14:46:36El_Barto2im german sorry ;)
14:46:37Bagderat least those I have
14:47:33El_Barto2its also a bit strange that you first have to boot the player and then plug in the charger..
14:47:45BagderI don't
14:47:59El_Barto2otherwise you cant use it,if you first connect the charger..
14:48:11BagderI can
14:48:18Bagderpress on
14:48:33El_Barto2thats what im talking about..
14:48:41Bagderno, you said it doesn't work
14:48:44BagderI say it does work
14:48:50El_Barto2you first have to start the player with the normal batteries
14:49:02El_Barto2and than you have to connect the charger..
14:49:19BagderEl_Barto2: if you don't read, then don't ask
14:49:24LinusNiinsert the charger and then press on to use it
14:49:43El_Barto2than ther comes the charing screen
14:49:47El_Barto2and i can do nothing
14:49:48LinusNyou just have to hold ON long enough
14:49:55Zagoror enable car mode
14:50:00El_Barto2ah ;)
14:50:01Zagorthen you won't get the screen at all
14:50:09LinusNi guess he isn't using rockbox
14:50:16El_Barto2thatsthe problem!!
14:50:23El_Barto2i cant flash the chip!
14:50:23LinusNEl_Barto2: no
14:50:40El_Barto2so first the original firmware starts!
14:50:43LinusNyou can still push ON to start the player
14:50:44BagderEl_Barto2: rockbox doesn't have to be flashed
14:50:53Bagderit still works that way
14:51:01El_Barto2ok...i will belive you ;)
14:51:14El_Barto2i damged the i cant test it ;)
14:51:15LinusNinsert the charger, and then push on for a few seconds
14:51:34El_Barto2wrong polarisation :(
14:51:49El_Barto2no the batteries cant charge
14:51:57LinusNso you need to replace a voltage regulator
14:52:08LinusNthe MC34063A
14:52:09El_Barto2or send it back ;)
14:52:52El_Barto2can i insert a part,which doesnt allow to use wrong polarisation?
14:55:10El_Barto2i cant understand that they doesnt build it in...
14:55:21El_Barto2it an easy way to damage the device!
14:57:03LinusNa simple diode would do
14:57:38El_Barto2tell it the devolpers ;)
14:57:51LinusNi will, if i ever meet them
14:58:32El_Barto2hehe :)
14:58:48El_Barto2and where should the diode be solder?
15:00:21 Quit ashridah ("sleep")
15:01:53LinusNin series with the D/C connector + wire
15:14:15dwihno(ot) has anyone tested pci-express gfx cards under *nix?
15:16:32 Quit MooMaunder (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
15:17:16dwihnoor any newer ati card for that matter
15:18:33LinusNnot yet
15:18:34BagderI don't
15:18:47LinusNwill do on my new pc
15:19:14LinusNbut it is a geforce
15:19:29Zagorpci-express isn't that new, i would be very surprised if there is any problem
15:25:24dwihnoI'm going to get a new box in a couple of months
15:25:37dwihnoSo, for performance, I'd like a pci-e gfx board
15:26:08dwihnothe nvidia binary driver is ok, but I want an ati board
15:26:36El_Barto2ok..thx for your support!
15:26:39El_Barto2see you ;)
15:26:53 Quit El_Barto2 ()
15:28:14dwihnoHowever, it would be nice with working xorg drivers instead of being forced to use some binary driver :/
15:28:35Bagderbuy another brand! ;-)
15:29:57Zagoryou only need the binary nvidia drivers if you want to play 3d games in linux.
15:30:13dwihnoBut what if I want an ATI card?
15:30:20Zagordunno about those
15:30:47LinusNoh, i thought you always needed the binary drivers
15:31:13ZagorLinusN: no, the code works fine for 2d
15:33:19dwihnoI don't want to buy a nvidia card just to get xorg support :/
15:33:40*Bagder uses a matrox card
15:33:41LinusNi didn't know that ati was so much better
15:33:57*LinusN has a Matrox G400
15:34:15Zagordwihno: search google, ask #xfree86. these are most likely well-documented things
15:34:39ZagorLinusN: they aren't. at least nvidia still holds the speed crown afaik.
15:37:58dwihnoThey do?
15:38:41Zagoryeah, last i read. but unless you plan on buying the very fastest card existing, that doesn't matter much
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15:45:04*dwihno checks with toms hardware
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15:47:44dwihnoDamn... Too many graphic cards available
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15:48:52Bagderyeah, they should only make one ;-)
15:49:57Lynx_just buy a mac ;)
15:52:45LinusN?Too many gfx cards error
15:55:41dwihnoThe more expensive - the more betterer :)
15:56:06LinusNnice engrish there ;-)
15:56:14Bagderif you really need to playe the latest 3D games, yes
15:56:18Bagderotherwise, no
15:56:30Bagderthey all have like 32 fans nowadays
15:56:40Bagdervacuum cleaner sound built-in
15:57:05dwihnoI don't want that sound! :(
15:57:23Zagorheadphones are mandatory for modern games :)
15:59:32Zagordwihno: shop around a bit, some manufacturers make passively-cooled cards nowadays.
15:59:58LinusNbut not for the latest and the greatest ones
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16:00:16bobTHCLeadtek WinFast PX6200 TC TDH supporting 256MB but in PCI express
16:00:16Zagorpretty late&great actually
16:00:30LinusNfor old guys like you, yes
16:00:42Zagorthe really latest ones cost more than your computer anyway, so few people are really interested in those
16:01:07dwihno~2000 SEK is a reasonable price to pay
16:02:24dwihnoare pci-e slots compatible with standard pci cards?
16:03:09bobTHC^no fan, passive , dual screen , cheap.... 90 :
16:04:24bobTHCbut for nux world, nvidia driver are not really "stable"
16:04:30Zagorsuspiciously small heatsink
16:04:53ZagorbobTHC: as i said, you only need the nvidia drivers if you plan on playing 3d games in linux. most people don't.
16:05:17dwihnobobTHC: I actually run the nvidia binary driver on my freebsd-laptop... works really great actually!
16:05:41bobTHCyour right but if dont want play games, the matrox G400 is always in race ;)
16:05:50LinusNi run it on my laptop too
16:06:02LinusN(the binary driver)
16:06:23ZagorbobTHC: yeah. how many 3d games do you play linux :)
16:07:43bobTHCure right nothing to add ;)
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16:09:29dwihnoGeForce 6800 looks pretty neat
16:10:04 Part LinusN
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16:11:08Zagoryeah, and the great "hair dryer" sound is included at no extra charge
16:11:42dwihnoIt is? Ah, I thought I had to pay extra for that :)
16:12:06bobTHCthe only thing to use hi-end GFX card with linux is to do 3d rendering or to use Fvwm2 in xtra hi res....
16:13:20dwihnoIf I'm going to shove a larger amount of money into a new computer, it would feel a bit stupid not arming it with a "worthy" graphics board
16:13:23Zagorafaik fvwm2 is 2d-only
16:14:30bobTHCyes but transparence and all kind of little thing use th GFX powa
16:15:05bobTHCand with "old card " the desktop is not very useable...
16:17:30Zagori can't find anything on that says they are doing transparency in the gpu instead of the cpu
16:20:04bobTHCme too... but i keep the faith ;)
16:23:09bobTHCi has ear that from a fvwm user who change gfx card and who have speed improvement . but i never check the site before this day to verify...
16:23:43Zagorwell 2d speed differs between cards too. especially if you switch bus speed.
16:25:26bobTHCoki so i change my sentence : the only thing to use hi-end GFX card with linux is to do 3d rendering
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16:37:57 Join Trevmar [0] (
16:38:53TrevmarJorg, I am trying to get the Ondios to take a Flash boot. Does the LCD header mod replce the need to change those pull-up pull-downs?
16:40:00TrevmarI have a rev 2.2 FM board, and it doesn't have a header for the serial port pullups. I also figured maybe alll I need is a higher current pull-down on the serial port buffer/inverts?
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16:54:53[IDC]Dragonoh, Trevor missed me
16:55:05[IDC]Dragonor is this a net split?
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17:34:19 Quit Lynx_ (" HydraIRC -> <- Chicks dig it")
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17:38:34Trevmarjorg, are you around?
17:39:11[IDC]Dragonnow I am
17:39:43[IDC]Dragonbtw, it's 'oe' if you have no ''
17:39:56TrevmarI am about to implement your flash boot over the next few days. My analysis of the three ondios after replacing their power supply chips is that there is something drawing a lot of current intermittently
17:40:13TrevmarI think maybe the BGA chip might have problems, don't know
17:40:29[IDC]Dragonof which I don't think it's the program flash
17:40:44Trevmarimmediately after soldering the boards all 3 behaved fine, but as the boards colled they (reversibly this time) started drawing 200mils at poweron
17:40:49[IDC]Dragonare they working?
17:41:02Trevmarsorry joerg
17:41:40Trevmarnone working, one stays powered up at 40ma after the on switch is pressed
17:41:58Trevmarboards = ondios
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17:42:16Trevmarso I am going to try and flash the low current well-behaved one
17:42:18[IDC]Dragonyou're beginning to pile up an Ondio junkyard ;-)
17:42:36[IDC]Dragontry reading it out first
17:42:52Trevmarso I have a question - does the LCD jumper patch replace the need to change that pull-up to pull-down?
17:43:22[IDC]Dragonjumper patch? you mean my modified strip?
17:43:25TrevmarI have a rev 2.2 boards and there is no header near the headphone jack
17:43:32Trevmarmodified strip yes
17:44:02[IDC]Dragonthat's very difficult to make, and requires a sacrificed LCD
17:44:15[IDC]DragonI had a broken one
17:44:24Trevmarbut what is its function?
17:44:34[IDC]Dragonpull 3 LCD lines low
17:44:35Trevmarsame as pull-up pull-down mod?
17:44:57[IDC]Dragonyes, just convenient to apply once made
17:45:12Trevmarwonderful, thanks. I will do it that way.
17:45:23[IDC]Dragonwith the strip?
17:45:26Trevmar(got plenty of spare displays etc right now -LOL
17:45:32Trevmarwith the strip
17:45:50[IDC]Dragonother people are desperate for an LCD
17:46:05TrevmarI am desperate for a working Ondio again LOL
17:46:23TrevmarI thought I might be able to do it without wrecking the LCD
17:46:38[IDC]Dragonyou can tap the 3 lines at their pullup
17:46:51Trevmarcan't find the pullup
17:46:58[IDC]Dragonor even at the CPU, but finer pith there
17:47:00TrevmarI have rev 2.2 FM board
17:47:10 Quit Spida (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:47:22[IDC]Dragonit's under the tuner daughterboard
17:47:41Trevmaroh - UNDER the daughter board - OK I will look again :)
17:47:50[IDC]Dragonlook at my wiki pics
17:48:00Trevmaryour wiki needs to use the word UNDER :)
17:48:21[IDC]Dragonare you facing the wiki page?
17:48:22TrevmarWiki pics, you man the link from the wiki to your pics?
17:48:33Trevmarjust a moment, I will bring it up
17:49:17[IDC]Dragonlook at the last picture, my Ondio without the tuner
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17:50:40[IDC]Dragonthere is a quad resistor array close to the top edge, the small black thing
17:50:41TrevmarOK, found that picture
17:50:56[IDC]Dragon(with 8 pins)
17:50:59TrevmarOK, see the pullup
17:51:17[IDC]Dragonthe top of it is all Vcc
17:51:32Trevmaryes, heavily connected to the copper
17:51:55[IDC]Dragonno, I think there's a trace going away from it
17:52:02Trevmarlet me go get one of the Ondios I have..just a moment
17:52:52[IDC]Dragonwith the recorder models, I've cut that trace and installed a switch to apply eithe Vcc or Gnd to the pull array
17:52:59TrevmarOK, I see it now. It is actually easy to find. I was looking for it on the daughter board
17:53:20TrevmarI understand your wiki instruction now.
17:53:35[IDC]Dragonfeel free to improve them
17:53:47[IDC]Dragonthat's what a wiki is about...
17:53:51TrevmarSo it is optional to EITHER hack the display jumper or cut/jumper that trace?
17:54:20[IDC]Dragonor tap the lines somewhere else and pull them low
17:54:27TrevmarOK, I will make (minor) changes to wiki after I get something going :)
17:54:53[IDC]Dragonhow about the RS232 part?
17:55:30TrevmarOK, I get it now, thanks. Was going to use a hardware serial inverer circuit
17:56:10[IDC]Dragonyou don't have that USB converting cable yet?
17:56:59Trevmarthe cable had a blank circuit board inside the little box :)
17:57:13Trevmarbut the USB plug will come in handy :)
17:57:29[IDC]Dragonit's no serial converter?
17:57:36Trevmarinside that connecter box there was just a straight through connection, no electronics
17:57:48Trevmarno serial converter there
17:58:26[IDC]DragonI'm sorry for my bad advise
17:58:32Trevmarno problems, I will use an NS3906 (I think thats the right one, anyway the open-collector inverter thingy IC I used to use 20 years ago for this type of function -LOL
17:59:01Trevmarno, your advice was fine, don't woory - this is development (dort of)
17:59:06Trevmarsort of
17:59:08[IDC]Dragonjust don't apply 12V
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17:59:30Trevmaryup, and INVERT the signal in the translator was th emessage I got
17:59:48[IDC]Dragonbut there are cellphone cables with such a converter
18:00:02[IDC]DragonI bought a stock
18:01:15TrevmarOK, thanks, I will do all that and see if I can revive any. But I did suspect the soldering under that BGA - I had a lot of trouble when I was using those packages. It was strange how the hot board behaved OK but it went to high currents as it cooled. At least the new power supply chips don't seem as fragile as the original ones in the Ondio production (date code was 1999)
18:01:23 Quit Bagder ("Off to search for that connect-resetting peer guy!")
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18:01:47[IDC]Dragonamazing that you got them
18:01:50 Quit Bagder (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
18:02:12TrevmarI just prdered them from Digikey $5.80 each and they arrived two days later :)
18:02:45[IDC]Dragonwouldn't it be cheaper and less hassle to buy 3 new Ondios? ;-)
18:03:24Trevmarcan't get the ondios at the moment. Ebay's auctions of them have dried up :(
18:03:53TrevmarBut you are correct - less hassle, but less fun too :(
18:03:56[IDC]Dragonas soon as we get something going, the hardware is in short supply :-(
18:04:35Trevmarbesides, I like a challenge, and these are certainly a challenge -LOL
18:05:02TrevmarOK, thankd joerg, will report back when I get more data or if I get one working :)
18:05:03[IDC]Dragonyou can test the serial converter by making a loopback, and typing into a terminal program, but you probably know
18:05:25 Quit jyp (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:05:39[IDC]Dragonyou'd need 3V on the other side for an idle line
18:05:44Trevmarah, yes, PROCOMM used to be the terminal program of choice. I wonder if that runs under Windows ? LOL
18:06:02[IDC]DragonI use TeraTerm
18:06:12Trevmarfor 3V I was going to use a pull-up and open-collector inverter chip
18:06:22[IDC]Dragonit's small, free, and does what it should
18:06:29TrevmarOk, will try it
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18:07:03[IDC]DragonMicrosoft HyperTerm works, too, but is cumbersome
18:07:39[IDC]Dragonyou never know if the terminal plays tricks with you, or the hardware
18:07:40DMJC-Lum.. anyone know if you can find your iriver's serial number from a different location?
18:07:48DMJC-Lor is the sticker on the player the only one?
18:07:54DMJC-Lif so I'm boned..
18:08:37[IDC]Dragonno idea
18:10:46DMJC-LI think I found a copy of it on the box..
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22:50:51amiconnAny gnu make/ makefile expert here?
22:57:57jypI guess i can give a hand
22:58:39amiconnI'm currently trying to get the compilation of the /firmware dir right, with the revived memset.c and memcpy.c.
22:58:49jypah, good ;)
22:59:07amiconnNow there are both memset.c and memset.S (and memcpy.c and memcpy.S as well)
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22:59:27jypI can feel what this is leading to ...
22:59:37amiconnThe generation of the dependency file with the SOURCES file seems to be correct.
22:59:54jypbut since the target is based on .o files ...
23:00:13amiconnFor the jukebox architectures, it should use the .S files, and there are no implicit rules in the makefile.
23:00:27amiconnHowever, it uses the .c variants...
23:00:53jypimplicit rules are in, right ?
23:01:08amiconnI just found where this comes from - there is an obscure "" file from the /tools dir.
23:01:31amiconnI don't know what this is good for though. ????
23:01:41 Quit elinenbe (" HydraIRC -> <- \o/")
23:01:58jypI'm afraid there's no easy way to let you choose between the .S or .c file based on implicit rules
23:02:47amiconnYeah - but the firmware makefile doesn't use implicit rules, and doesn't need to, iiuc...
23:03:04jypIt does via
23:03:39amiconnYeah. I'll try to leave this out and see what happens... doesn't work :(
23:06:00jypyup, the implicit rules are used
23:07:30amiconnI thought all rules were defined by the "-include $(DEPFILE)" at the very bottom. It seems that I am wrong....
23:07:37jypI'm afraid the only way is to rename of the version
23:07:54jypI'm afraid the only way is to rename one of the versions
23:08:37jypDEPFILE only contains dependencies to .h files iiuc
23:09:25amiconnHmm. I think renaming destroys the "logic": Have xyz.S (optimized) and xyz.c (plain), and decide in SOURCES which one to use.
23:09:55jypYup ...
23:10:03jypBut here's how it works ...
23:10:58jypboth .S and .c are replaced by .o and given as dependencies for librockbox.a
23:11:15jyp(lines 16 & 17)
23:11:27amiconnYes, understood
23:12:38jypAfter that chosing between the .c or .S source is based only in the order of implicit rules in the Makefile
23:13:45jypThere are certainly solutions that do not involve renaming
23:14:00jypbut these will be overly complicated
23:22:43amiconnHmm. Now I need a method to solve this problem.
23:23:24amiconnEither rename one of the files, or make a sub-dir to move asm optimized stuff to. ? ?
23:23:40BagderI'd say rename
23:24:07Bagderits easy to change if we figure out a different way
23:24:22amiconnAny sugestions on a name pattern, and which one to rename? (I think I should rename the .S variants)
23:25:18amiconnRenaming is cumbersome with cvs... as is moving into another dir.
23:26:18amiconnSomething like memset_o.S (for "optimized")? Better suggestions?
23:26:45Bagder_a for alternative/assembler ?
23:26:50 Quit mecraw_ ("Trillian (")
23:27:48amiconnHmm. I think this is equally good (or bad). I'll try _a
23:33:39amiconnIt works! :)
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