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| 09:00 |
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| 09:42:58 | HCl | yay. bootloader iriver is finished. |
| 09:43:15 | * | HCl waits for the reflashing interface and then it should finally be somewhat test/developable |
| 09:43:23 | rasher | oh boy |
| 09:43:37 | HCl | ? |
| 09:43:44 | rasher | I'm excited :) |
| 09:43:47 | HCl | :p |
| 09:44:27 | HCl | can't wait till the bootloader/flasher will be declared stable, i've been dying to get my hands dirty on development |
| 09:45:31 | rasher | I'm probably just going to wait a bit longer |
| 09:45:44 | HCl | *nods* |
| 09:46:02 | HCl | yea, the audio driver isn't even working yet xD |
| 09:48:02 | rasher | I have a devilish plan of looking at hacking on sid input at some point in time |
| 09:48:24 | HCl | sid input..? *doesn't know what that is* |
| 09:48:34 | rasher | c64 Music file format |
| 09:48:37 | HCl | ahhh |
| 09:48:40 | HCl | that sid |
| 09:48:41 | HCl | :p |
| 09:49:07 | HCl | isn't it sort of like midi? or am i completely wrong about that? |
| 09:49:33 | rasher | I guess you could say that in a way |
| 09:49:50 | rasher | It's not real sound, no |
| 09:49:51 | HCl | well, or more like MOD, really.. |
| 09:50:04 | rasher | I don't know any details at all |
| 09:50:05 | HCl | since midi is with instrument crap.. |
| 09:55:32 | HCl | okay |
| 09:58:21 | LinusN | c64 music is not easy at all |
| 09:58:37 | LinusN | you emulate a 6510 cpu + the 6581 sound chip |
| 09:59:06 | rasher | there are a few libraries for that though, aren't there? |
| 09:59:10 | ashridah | heh, that's going to be entertaining on a coldfire cpu |
| 09:59:32 | LinusN | i guess there is some open source sid emulation somewhere |
| 09:59:50 | HCl | c64 emulation shouldn't be too heavy... its a c64.. after all. |
| 10:00 |
| 10:00:07 | rasher | I think there are two libraries |
| 10:00:09 | HCl | how much cpu power does the iriver have anyways? |
| 10:00:19 | LinusN | meeting, i'll be back |
| 10:02:30 | ashridah | HCl: a fair amount, one or two hundred MHz, if memory serves, but power usage increases with cpu speed, naturally. |
| 10:03:21 | rasher | http://sidplay2.sourceforge.net/ <- c, gpl library |
| 10:03:26 | ashridah | i'd be more worried about whether the sid libraries use floating-point math or not |
| 10:03:37 | rasher | That might be a problem |
| 10:03:40 | ashridah | because that'll require a fair amount of work to fix. |
| 10:05:39 | ashridah | i'd grab a copy of the source code and start poking through it |
| 10:05:57 | HCl | nice. |
| 10:05:58 | HCl | well. |
| 10:06:09 | HCl | as long as it'll eventually do on the fly playlists |
| 10:06:12 | HCl | and play tetris |
| 10:06:17 | HCl | i'll be happy |
| 10:06:18 | HCl | :P |
| 10:06:28 | ashridah | i'm interested in flac support a bit |
| 10:06:49 | ashridah | not sure why, probably only because a mate's mp3 player supports it and i want him to stop trying to lord it over everyone ;) |
| 10:06:52 | HCl | i'm a bit curious about aac, it'd be interesting if it'd actually be possible to use the digital out to produce 5.1 output |
| 10:06:59 | HCl | lol. |
| 10:07:05 | HCl | i don't even know what flac is exactly :X |
| 10:07:11 | rasher | lossless format |
| 10:07:19 | ashridah | free lossless audio codec |
| 10:07:20 | HCl | how? |
| 10:07:21 | rasher | part of the ogg family |
| 10:07:39 | rasher | HCl: it just doesn't remove anything that it can't put back exactly like it was |
| 10:07:48 | rasher | like zip, except optimized for audio |
| 10:07:51 | HCl | odd, but okay |
| 10:08:07 | ashridah | HCl: it's basically an on-the-fly decompressible stream, as opposed to an on-the-fly decodable approximation stream :) |
| 10:08:13 | HCl | mhm. |
| 10:08:17 | HCl | i get the idea.. |
| 10:08:39 | dwihno | I thought lossless audio compression was really hard to achieve |
| 10:08:50 | * | HCl afks for a while.. breakfast.. coffee.. |
| 10:08:56 | rasher | You could run zipped wav |
| 10:09:00 | rasher | But that'd be horrible |
| 10:09:01 | ashridah | dwihno: it does use more bandwidth, but .wav's can actually compress reasonably well |
| 10:09:26 | ashridah | the idea is that flac's got the things that make mp3 useful, like framing and whatnot (or whatever's appropriately similar that flac uses) |
| 10:09:27 | dwihno | ashridah: I guess I have to check it out :) |
| 10:09:33 | rasher | It's just a matter of tuning the compression and making it a stream |
| 10:09:53 | ashridah | rasher: well, no, you need keyframes to allow for quick searching too |
| 10:10:32 | rasher | True |
| 10:10:38 | rasher | Last I checked, they compress to about 40% of the uncompressed wav |
| 10:10:43 | rasher | I think |
| 10:10:53 | * | dwihno tests the flac encoder on a recently ripped wav |
| 10:12:09 | ashridah | given the signal/noise ratio of my usual listening environments (uni, train, home in a room full of pc equipment and stuff) i don't see how removing the loss from the audio is really going to help me much :) |
| 10:12:36 | rasher | I've pondered using it for backing up my cds |
| 10:12:40 | rasher | but haven't bothered yet |
| 10:12:46 | ashridah | plus i kinda prefer my music fitting into my iriver h140 atm, with room to spare to be useful as a data transport device |
| 10:14:14 | ashridah | ogg gives me a plausible tradeoff between size and quality |
| 10:15:37 | rasher | Yes, I'm not really sure why you'd want a lossless codec on a portable player |
| 10:15:58 | dwihno | rasher: Using it for CD backup might be a nice idea actually |
| 10:16:14 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 10:16:31 | dwihno | 29 526 437 bytes, was 50 208 188 |
| 10:16:57 | LinusN | rasher: it is pretty useful for recording material that you know you want to edit afterwards |
| 10:17:15 | rasher | Good point |
| 10:17:48 | ashridah | and for taunting audiophiles about the poor quality of their lossy mp3s stored in their ipod >:) |
| 10:17:49 | dwihno | really really nice with lossless audio |
| 10:18:24 | | Join Zagor [242] (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) |
| 10:18:36 | rasher | ashridah: you're forgetting about apple lossless here :) |
| 10:18:54 | ashridah | i don't care about apple. |
| 10:19:20 | rasher | I'm just noting that audiophiles would probably have lossless music on their ipod |
| 10:19:22 | Bagder | I like apples. And oranges. |
| 10:19:22 | ashridah | all of the people i know who bought ipods did it because of the colour (i'm not kidding) |
| 10:19:53 | rasher | I don't know anyone with an ipod |
| 10:19:59 | dwihno | What is the resolution of the ihp? |
| 10:20:18 | Bagder | you mean the LCD? |
| 10:20:18 | dwihno | archos is 128x64? |
| 10:20:18 | ashridah | about 3 of my friends went out and bought iriver H1xx/3xx's after i got my H130 :) |
| 10:20:21 | dwihno | Bagder: yeah |
| 10:20:22 | ashridah | H140 even |
| 10:20:39 | Bagder | dwihno: 160x128 |
| 10:20:43 | Bagder | 4 greyscales |
| 10:21:00 | dwihno | aah |
| 10:21:01 | Bagder | or rather, black |
| 10:21:01 | dwihno | neat |
| 10:21:08 | Bagder | and white + 2 grey |
| 10:21:10 | ashridah | heh. sounds like it's enough to play tetris :) |
| 10:21:43 | * | HCl yawns |
| 10:21:57 | HCl | yup, it is |
| 10:22:13 | rasher | I'm impressed by battery time so far |
| 10:22:20 | dwihno | Bagder: Is it a dumb idea to do more than 1-bit graphics yet? |
| 10:22:45 | Bagder | dwihno: so far we only use 1 bit on it |
| 10:22:50 | | Nick ashridah is now known as Lost-tv (ashridah@220-253-121-119.VIC.netspace.net.au) |
| 10:23:24 | Bagder | but having 2bit graphics around might motivate us more to work harder on getting it to work ;-) |
| 10:23:59 | dwihno | :-) |
| 10:24:10 | dwihno | I was thinking about antialiased usb screen ;) |
| 10:24:26 | Zagor | dwihno: yeah, focus on the vitals :) |
| 10:24:37 | Bagder | focus on the fun! |
| 10:24:48 | dwihno | Zagor: as always! :) |
| 10:25:43 | dwihno | you guys tested out the bootloader yet? |
| 10:26:04 | * | HCl is waiting till the flash interface is included... |
| 10:26:25 | HCl | and till its declared stable, i don't think i could ever acquire a bdm wiggler to fix it if i flash badly |
| 10:26:31 | Zagor | unfortunately, a friend has borrowed my h140 so i can't test it this week |
| 10:26:46 | dwihno | Zagor: how dull :( |
| 10:26:46 | | Join Lynx_ [0] (HydraIRC@134.95.189.59) |
| 10:27:00 | dwihno | Zagor: well, by the end of the week, Linus will probably have mp3 playback up'n' running ;) |
| 10:27:06 | Zagor | haha |
| 10:27:07 | HCl | :P |
| 10:27:14 | dwihno | :) |
| 10:27:32 | Lynx_ | hi guys! |
| 10:28:30 | Lynx_ | been skiing for a week, did i miss anything major happening? |
| 10:29:18 | HCl | sorta |
| 10:29:25 | HCl | iriver bootloader's working |
| 10:30:25 | Lynx_ | cool :) |
| 10:47:14 | LinusN | i'll add a few more safety nets to the boot loader, so hold your bravery until then |
| 10:48:43 | Lynx_ | What's the first possible iriver that'll be ported to, H120? |
| 10:49:15 | LinusN | yes (and H140, since they are the same hardwarewise) |
| 10:50:24 | Lynx_ | phew, 386 euro for the 120, would you say it's much better than the archos recorder? |
| 10:53:27 | Zagor | "better" is subjective. it all depends what qualities you prioritize. |
| 10:53:54 | dwihno | how about audio output? |
| 10:54:50 | Zagor | i haven't done substantial tests, but at least my iriver has a very faint background noise that my archos doesn't have. it's very very faint though, not at all as annoying as the original archos buzz. |
| 10:56:14 | dwihno | hm |
| 11:00 |
| 11:01:59 | | Join Schnueff [0] (~mah@134.96.247.243) |
| 11:10:42 | LinusN | Zagor: like my recorder background noise? |
| 11:12:40 | rasher | Zagor: have you tried without the remote? |
| 11:12:50 | Zagor | rasher: yes |
| 11:13:02 | Zagor | LinusN: i don't remember how that sounds |
| 11:13:38 | rasher | I'm pretty sure the remote adds some noise, but if that's not what you talk about |
| 11:14:27 | Zagor | no, i had my headphones plugged in to the iriver directly |
| 11:14:32 | rasher | alright |
| 11:15:00 | Zagor | actually, i didn't notice it until i unplugged my headphones. that's how faint it is. |
| 11:15:13 | rasher | heh |
| 11:15:33 | rasher | I don't think I have anywhere silent enough to go |
| 11:18:22 | Zagor | lunch |
| 11:20:37 | rasher | Hm, I can't for the life of me hear any faint noise |
| 11:20:45 | rasher | I guess my ears are just damaged :) |
| 11:22:23 | | Join amiconn [0] (~jens@pD9E7E390.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:22:27 | * | rasher listens to the iRiver song |
| 11:22:34 | rasher | this is so cheesy |
| 11:22:37 | rasher | I absolutely love it |
| 11:25:41 | | Quit Lynx_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 11:27:04 | | Join MooMaunder [0] (~me@194.152.87.150) |
| 11:52:35 | | Quit MooMaunder (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 11:56:39 | | Join MooMaunder [0] (~me@194.152.87.150) |
| 12:00 |
| 12:07:24 | Lost-tv | the remote sometimes adds faint induced beeps to the earphones when you use the buttons on it, particularly noticable when you don't have music playing and you're scrolling the file list, and you're in a quiet place. at least, they used to. i think iriver fixed it somehow, not sure exactly. |
| 12:07:24 | | Nick Lost-tv is now known as ashridah (ashridah@220-253-121-119.VIC.netspace.net.au) |
| 12:08:11 | rasher | They claimed that in one of the changelogs, but it's still there for me |
| 12:08:28 | rasher | but I only hear it at volumes less than 4-5 |
| 12:08:35 | ashridah | i haven't checked tbh. |
| 12:09:15 | ashridah | as i remarked previously, 95% of the time, i'm using it someplace where there's already a high level of noise |
| 12:09:24 | rasher | yeah me too |
| 12:10:22 | ashridah | like a party i went to the other night which i crashed at, and one of the girls in the room snored. |
| 12:10:26 | ashridah | god that was a horrible night |
| 12:10:45 | rasher | Sounds it |
| 12:10:58 | ashridah | i ended up using my iriver to cut out the snoring. i still didn't sleep, but at least i wasn't listening to her |
| 12:11:11 | rasher | you should have a file of white noise |
| 12:11:18 | rasher | for such occasions |
| 12:11:20 | * | ashridah huggles the ultra-long battery life in the iriver |
| 12:11:44 | rasher | Yes, it really does seem nicely long |
| 12:12:13 | ashridah | it's decently sized, and since it's li-poly, it's supposed to last through more charge cycles than standard li-ion |
| 12:12:24 | ashridah | not supposed to turn flame-thrower if you cut it either |
| 12:12:24 | ze | i once slept in a room with 5 other guys who sounded like they were having a snoring contest |
| 12:12:29 | ashridah | although i don't remember if that's true. |
| 12:12:41 | ze | i didn't have anything to block out the noise with, but i did manage to get to sleep despite it :p |
| 12:16:15 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 12:17:20 | | Quit midk ("Leaving") |
| 12:46:44 | | Join Lynx_ [0] (HydraIRC@134.95.189.59) |
| 12:52:27 | | Join webguest43 [0] (~8f416314@labb.contactor.se) |
| 12:54:56 | webguest43 | Hi ! Quick question: is the h140 as big as the 340 ? |
| 12:55:28 | Zagor | did you check iriver.com? |
| 12:56:45 | rasher | If he didn't, I can understand why |
| 13:00 |
| 13:00:31 | | Quit webguest43 ("CGI:IRC") |
| 13:09:28 | ashridah | yeah, god damned flash-based hell its become |
| 13:18:34 | | Join webguest43 [0] (~8f416314@labb.contactor.se) |
| 13:19:00 | webguest43 | well i tried to check iriver website, but could not find the size info... its flash hell there... |
| 13:20:44 | webguest43 | ah found it |
| 13:20:53 | * | HCl yawns |
| 13:21:26 | webguest43 | just if you are interested: h120:19mm deep, h140: 22mm, h320: 22.5mm, h340: 25mm |
| 13:23:20 | * | HCl has an h140 |
| 13:23:47 | HCl | i don't suppose there's anyone who can tell me exactly whats better about the h340? cause from what i saw on the website it just added useless features like a color screen and stuff... |
| 13:25:26 | webguest43 | and its 30g heavier, that is 172 > 203g |
| 13:25:53 | Bagder | the 3x0 has usb "on the go" |
| 13:26:15 | rasher | What does that mean? |
| 13:26:45 | Bagder | it can be a usb host |
| 13:26:59 | webguest43 | well it connects to digicam, so you can empty your pics on it. I like that, but for the rest you are right, useless features, less fancy remote. They do include a dock though, but as there is no sound output on the bottom it still cant hook up to the stereo via the dock. |
| 13:27:20 | rasher | I'd LIKE a less fancy remote |
| 13:27:25 | rasher | seriously |
| 13:27:42 | rasher | The h1x0 one tries (and succeeds, I think) to do EVERYTHING |
| 13:28:03 | rasher | but eh |
| 13:28:07 | | Join Quelsaruk [0] (~kvirc@80.103.137.92) |
| 13:28:12 | Quelsaruk | hi |
| 13:31:08 | | Join R3nTiL [0] (~zorroz@217.30.249.199) |
| 13:31:25 | webguest43 | you can buy the one without screen as a spare |
| 13:31:55 | rasher | Well that's extra money spent.. it's not *that* bad :) |
| 13:40:04 | Quelsaruk | Bagder: are you here? |
| 13:40:11 | Bagder | yeps |
| 13:40:14 | Quelsaruk | ok |
| 13:40:15 | Quelsaruk | :) |
| 13:41:07 | Quelsaruk | i made a small mod in uplang script, using an idea amiconn gave me. I changed the script so it doesn't update the voice line except the eng: line has changed. |
| 13:41:35 | Quelsaruk | that is, if you write the same in english, you expect the voice hasn't changed. |
| 13:41:45 | Quelsaruk | what do you think about that? |
| 13:42:34 | Bagder | I'm fine with whatver you and amiconn agree on. I'm not much into voicing. |
| 13:42:51 | Bagder | except for those in my head! ;-) |
| 13:43:03 | | Quit R3nTiL () |
| 13:44:17 | Quelsaruk | hehe |
| 13:44:25 | Quelsaruk | is not just voicing |
| 13:44:36 | Quelsaruk | is for updating language files |
| 13:44:37 | Quelsaruk | :) |
| 13:45:07 | Quelsaruk | it's horrible if you have to change again all the voices and use previous voices |
| 13:47:15 | HCl | okay |
| 13:47:29 | HCl | so my impression of the h3x0 was kind of right :P didn't know it could be usb host though, but yea :p |
| 13:47:43 | Quelsaruk | amiconn: here? |
| 13:54:07 | | Join ripnetUK [0] (~mirc@82-70-100-230.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 13:56:23 | | Quit webguest43 ("CGI:IRC") |
| 13:58:00 | ripnetUK | ive had an idea to make the bootloader safer - how about instead of re-directing the reset vector to the rockbox check-for-record-and-branch routine, we put a jump into a less critical section of the original iRiver rom, such as when switching to radio. That way, if it goes wrong, you can use the inbuilt flasher to reflash. This could be called a 'test' mkboot. Once this is shown to work, the brave can redirect the reset vector to it |
| 13:58:47 | LinusN | but then it's a lot harder to make it work on different versions of the iriver firmware |
| 13:59:10 | LinusN | since we have to disassemble each version to find the spot |
| 13:59:58 | ripnetUK | i spose |
| 14:00 |
| 14:00:10 | ripnetUK | but we only need to 'support' one version (verified by md5) |
| 14:00:35 | ripnetUK | im hoping that soon(ish) which version of the iRiver firmware will be irrelevent to me ;) |
| 14:00:37 | LinusN | really? what about different versions for different parts of the world? |
| 14:00:47 | LinusN | eu/us/kr versions |
| 14:00:50 | ripnetUK | as far as i knew, they were all interchangable |
| 14:01:14 | ripnetUK | my uk one ran the kr version for a while, with no bad things (tm) happening |
| 14:01:38 | LinusN | brb |
| 14:16:17 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 14:18:11 | LinusN | back |
| 14:19:28 | ripnetUK | i assume its the same reset vector for 'cold start' and 'reset button pressed?' |
| 14:19:45 | LinusN | yes |
| 14:19:48 | ripnetUK | k |
| 14:29:53 | ashridah | LinusN: isn't the only difference is the default language so far as i can tell |
| 14:30:03 | ashridah | i've used the korean and the us version interchangably |
| 14:34:50 | ripnetUK | the battery life of the iRiver is amazing - i have just copied ~40 gigs onto it, and its still going srong |
| 14:34:52 | ripnetUK | strong |
| 14:37:55 | Lynx_ | damn, is there anything one can do to rescue a non-working compact flash card? |
| 14:38:33 | ripnetUK | i will rephrase that :) the iRiver doesnt update its battery status while plugged into usb |
| 14:38:47 | rasher | nice |
| 14:38:51 | Bagder | hehe |
| 14:39:02 | rasher | but it really is nice battery life afaik |
| 14:40:05 | ripnetUK | yeah, managed to run since ~ 10 this morning with continious disk access... as soon as i brag about how good it is it dies |
| 14:41:43 | rasher | let's hope it didn't trash your drive |
| 14:41:58 | rasher | I say trash, I mean upset the fat |
| 14:42:00 | ripnetUK | not too bothered if it did |
| 14:42:26 | rasher | I accidently pulled the usb cable while transferring a file |
| 14:42:40 | rasher | I THOUGHT IT WAS DONE! HOW ON EARTH COULD IT TAKE THAT LONG |
| 14:42:58 | rasher | anyway, I got a few alleged tera-byte files from that stunt |
| 14:42:59 | ripnetUK | i just wiped everything and took a copy from work of my 'off site backup' as I think the drive in my linux box has died... do any linux folk know if a failed (non root, non system) drive (which is simply mounted as /amoutnname ) can compeltely hang linux? |
| 14:43:04 | rasher | nothing a scandisk couldn't fix |
| 14:43:27 | rasher | hm, it shouldn't |
| 14:43:39 | rasher | but I guess it's a posibility |
| 14:44:15 | ripnetUK | thats what i thought, but ive been having unexplained hangs on my box recently, and this morning, it couldnt find hda1 (but hda was there). Its possible i cought the ide cable as I removed a ram stick (to eliminate it), but i cant find out till after work |
| 14:46:47 | ashridah | ripnetUK: i've seen things like that take out a linux box completely before. |
| 14:46:52 | ashridah | not for a while tho |
| 14:47:23 | LinusN | ashridah: i've been told that the eu version has a cap on the volume |
| 14:47:31 | ashridah | LinusN: interesting. |
| 14:47:37 | LinusN | eu regulations |
| 14:47:39 | ashridah | they have visible differences in the splash screen too |
| 14:48:01 | LinusN | rasher: i thought you had to unmount the disk before pluggin the usb cable |
| 14:48:07 | LinusN | unplugging |
| 14:48:22 | LinusN | the operating system would have said that it was busy |
| 14:49:04 | rasher | LinusN: yeah, although I think you can make it do unbuffered access in which case it shouldn't be necessary |
| 14:49:10 | rasher | but I forgot to do any of those |
| 14:49:16 | rasher | I was in a hurry :) |
| 14:50:12 | dwihno | LinusN: you don't have to remove any kernel modules or such? only umount the file system? |
| 14:51:44 | ashridah | dwihno: unmounting will do the trick. so far as i know, the usb-storage driver ensures that stuff is synced to disk properly, although i tend to run the filesystem with 'sync' on anyway. |
| 14:53:59 | ripnetUK | ash - fingers crossed its just a failed hard drive then :) cant face the thought of a reinstall at the moment |
| 14:54:35 | dwihno | ashridah: ah, okay |
| 15:00 |
| 15:18:52 | | Quit ashridah ("sleep") |
| 15:24:22 | amiconn | Quelsaruk: Now I am here. |
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| 15:29:20 | | Join Atur [0] (~marc@host81-154-55-162.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) |
| 15:37:42 | | Join webguest43 [0] (~8f416314@labb.contactor.se) |
| 15:38:47 | HCl | http://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/amm/download/mp3surround/downloadpage.html |
| 15:38:54 | HCl | mp3 in dolby 5.1 |
| 15:39:03 | HCl | maybe interesting to have alongside aac... |
| 15:39:54 | Zagor | how many records do you have in 5.1? :-) |
| 15:40:05 | HCl | *shrugs* only a few movies :P |
| 15:40:20 | HCl | its still interesting though |
| 15:41:06 | LinusN | the cpu can only handle 2 channels |
| 15:41:30 | Bagder | "pick which 2 channels you want to hear:" :-) |
| 15:41:38 | Zagor | lol |
| 15:41:38 | LinusN | :-) |
| 15:42:06 | Zagor | now this is what we need, an M&M sorter: http://www.lightlink.com/dream/chris/msorter.htm |
| 15:43:04 | Bagder | yay, it does Skittles too |
| 15:48:49 | HCl | LinusN: hm, so iriver digital out can't do 5.1 ? |
| 15:51:05 | ShyK | hacks of a format that should have been dead long ago are hardly interesting |
| 15:51:31 | Bagder | they might be if many people use it |
| 15:51:42 | Bagder | Windows, Word and similar comes to mind ;-) |
| 15:52:10 | Bagder | ok, windows is not a format |
| 15:52:27 | ShyK | word isn't either |
| 15:52:40 | Bagder | well, it saves in a format |
| 15:52:50 | ShyK | it saves in many formats |
| 15:52:58 | Bagder | the reasoning still applies |
| 15:53:07 | ShyK | hardly. doc has many versions. |
| 15:53:12 | LinusN | HCl: no |
| 15:53:13 | Bagder | I think they all suck |
| 15:54:00 | ShyK | exactly, they suck, that's why it's uninteresting |
| 15:54:03 | ShyK | as is mp3 |
| 15:54:05 | Bagder | hacks of a format that should have been dead a long time ago |
| 15:54:19 | Bagder | but the amount of users makes it "interesting" anyway |
| 15:54:31 | Bagder | like FAT32 for filesystems |
| 15:54:45 | ShyK | interesting to companies that make money, not users who want new better technology |
| 15:55:02 | Zagor | ShyK: most users have mountains of data in legacy formats |
| 15:55:33 | ShyK | that's mainly because companies and various developers don't progress and stick with legacy formats |
| 15:55:39 | ShyK | it's not the users' fault |
| 15:55:45 | Bagder | mainstream users don't want better technology, they want things to work |
| 15:55:54 | LinusN | as far as i'm concerned, mp3 is good enough for me |
| 15:55:57 | Zagor | it's mostly because the old format is "good enough" |
| 15:56:03 | ShyK | it's not about what "mainstream" wants, it's about what can benefit everyone |
| 15:56:29 | Zagor | many non-geeks don't want to change technology every few years |
| 15:56:49 | LinusN | most "new and better" formats are more about DRM than audio quality |
| 15:56:49 | ShyK | mp3 has been around in large scale since 1995. it's been 10 years. |
| 15:57:06 | Bagder | then again, I don't think 5.1 mp3 will be a "hit" |
| 15:57:21 | ShyK | not only will it not be a hit, it will never be anything |
| 15:57:31 | ShyK | no one will adopt this nonsense |
| 15:57:36 | Zagor | >2 channels hasn't taken off outside movies, and i don't expect it will |
| 15:57:37 | Bagder | well, mp3pro was adopted |
| 15:57:55 | ShyK | hardly, and it's mostly dead by now |
| 15:58:10 | Zagor | wma was adopted. aac was adopted. |
| 15:58:11 | LinusN | mostly by those compelled to jump on the next new train everytime |
| 15:58:20 | Bagder | true |
| 15:58:25 | Zagor | drm is the name of the game these days |
| 15:58:38 | LinusN | exactly |
| 15:58:44 | LinusN | most "new and better" formats are more about DRM than audio quality |
| 15:58:51 | ShyK | "mainstream" users don't want drm because it doesn't benefit them. |
| 15:59:15 | LinusN | they don't care, or even know |
| 15:59:16 | Bagder | except that they can buy such songs from iTunes ;-) |
| 15:59:29 | LinusN | they adopt drm formats because they don't know better |
| 15:59:39 | Zagor | because they don't get any alternatives |
| 15:59:49 | ShyK | everywhere it's mentioned that drm protected files can be played by "this and this" limited thing. so users know. |
| 16:00 |
| 16:00:06 | LinusN | so they buy that specific player |
| 16:00:33 | ShyK | i don't see wma being a hit even though it's widely supported |
| 16:00:48 | Zagor | ShyK: witness itunes. users don't care about drm as long as they get their weekly britney spears. |
| 16:01:00 | ShyK | if users really did "use what there is" 99% of people would use wma |
| 16:01:04 | LinusN | wait until the PayForSure campain has gained momentum |
| 16:01:13 | LinusN | them wma will be popular |
| 16:01:35 | ShyK | wma will never be popular. i've seen people expecting wma to get popular for many years. |
| 16:01:37 | ShyK | nothing's changed. |
| 16:01:51 | ShyK | and drm gives absolutely no benefit to users |
| 16:01:54 | ShyK | so it'll die too |
| 16:01:59 | Zagor | yes it does: it provides content |
| 16:02:03 | LinusN | don't be so sure |
| 16:02:11 | Bagder | I don't see DRM dying |
| 16:02:15 | ShyK | it provides very limited content. users hate limited content. |
| 16:02:21 | LinusN | if drm is the only legal way to get your compressed songs... |
| 16:02:23 | Zagor | users hate itunes? |
| 16:02:30 | ShyK | itunes is a player. |
| 16:02:35 | Zagor | no |
| 16:02:38 | ShyK | yes |
| 16:02:38 | LinusN | itunes is a service |
| 16:02:46 | ShyK | itunes store is a service |
| 16:03:14 | Zagor | so, users hate itunes store? |
| 16:03:40 | ShyK | users who use itunes store use it, and that's a very limited amount of users. |
| 16:04:01 | ShyK | the users who are more "mainstream" than mainstream |
| 16:04:41 | Zagor | those are the mainstream users. you must accept that you and I are not the average mp3 player users anymore. |
| 16:04:55 | ShyK | i don't have to accept this because the facts show otherwise |
| 16:05:11 | Bagder | what facts? |
| 16:06:23 | HCl | i kind of agree |
| 16:06:31 | HCl | only idiots will buy stuff that limits theirselves.. |
| 16:06:36 | ShyK | surveys have been made that show users would rather buy cds than pay for songs on the internet, which are protected. itunes barely has any decent content if any, and has a much smaller amount of users than expected. all serious technology websites outcast drm as it's bad for all users. |
| 16:07:14 | HCl | but bill gates has this whole take-over-the-internet planned for the next windows release along with chips to prevent cracked copies of software and movies and whatnot |
| 16:07:24 | HCl | so that might have an impact a bit |
| 16:07:37 | Zagor | ShyK: so who is it that bought the last quarter billion songs from itunes then? |
| 16:08:09 | LinusN | and who are the idiots that buy all those copy-protected CD:s? |
| 16:08:09 | ShyK | quarter billion? |
| 16:08:12 | Zagor | yes |
| 16:08:14 | jyp | Drm will work only if they give the computers for free, since you don't own it any more. |
| 16:08:20 | ShyK | Zagor: where's that from? |
| 16:08:26 | Bagder | I think the amount of users is so huge so that there will remain users who use DRM and those who don't |
| 16:08:27 | HCl | LinusN: i dunno, just a lot of people are kind of stupid if you'd ask me :) |
| 16:08:40 | Zagor | http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050124/sfm059_1.html |
| 16:08:55 | LinusN | HCl: yes, they are called "average users" |
| 16:08:59 | HCl | :P |
| 16:08:59 | Zagor | "1.25 million songs per day" |
| 16:09:00 | HCl | i know :P |
| 16:09:10 | HCl | i'll still call them stupid though :X |
| 16:09:16 | ShyK | 250 million, not billion. |
| 16:09:18 | LinusN | i do too :-) |
| 16:09:18 | HCl | music is about making music |
| 16:09:20 | HCl | not making money. |
| 16:09:28 | Zagor | ShyK: 250 million == one quarter billion |
| 16:09:47 | ShyK | oh i read incorrectly sorry |
| 16:10:05 | ShyK | anyway. if you calculate it, you can see that it's not much at all. |
| 16:10:30 | Zagor | i don't like it any more than anyone here does, but denying it is happening does not help |
| 16:11:48 | ShyK | companies supporting drm also doesn't help any users. |
| 16:11:57 | Zagor | i agree |
| 16:12:02 | Bagder | they help users buy content |
| 16:12:05 | Bagder | like itunes |
| 16:12:11 | Zagor | neither do drugs, but still people buy it |
| 16:12:12 | ShyK | anyway, 250 million songs from itunes' start until now is very little. |
| 16:12:21 | HCl | when did it start? |
| 16:13:12 | ShyK | second quarter of 2003 i think |
| 16:14:22 | HCl | then i think 250 million is quite a lot... |
| 16:14:29 | | Quit edx () |
| 16:14:32 | HCl | how many users is that? by average? |
| 16:14:42 | HCl | 15 songs per user..? is that reasonable..? |
| 16:15:18 | HCl | so you have like.. 17 million users... hm. |
| 16:15:48 | HCl | well, no disaster just yet, i suppose, if you compare it to the total amount of people that use computers. |
| 16:16:10 | HCl | i'm kind of worried about whats microsoft planning though. |
| 16:16:18 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 16:16:34 | Zagor | they are planning to kill itunes, naturally |
| 16:16:35 | HCl | what microsofts* |
| 16:16:48 | HCl | not just that. they're planning to kill off linux as well. |
| 16:17:02 | Zagor | yeah, but that's old news :-) |
| 16:17:08 | HCl | i forgot what that chip was called |
| 16:17:14 | HCl | plus they renamed it in order to confuse people >.< |
| 16:17:33 | HCl | anyways, new pcs will have this chip that'll make it refuse to run protected programs |
| 16:17:40 | HCl | er |
| 16:17:42 | HCl | not protected programs |
| 16:18:25 | jyp | No one with a brain will buy those. |
| 16:18:31 | ShyK | amazon sells tens of thousands of _albums_ every day. cds, not lousy aac files. |
| 16:18:52 | HCl | jyp: i don't know. there are a lot of stupid people out there.. |
| 16:19:07 | HCl | i agree ShyK, i'd much rather have a cd than digital files |
| 16:19:15 | HCl | cause you can just lose those files when your pc crashes |
| 16:19:29 | HCl | and who's to say itunes store will stay in the air for you to download them again when you want to |
| 16:20:06 | HCl | jyp: and seeing as the next windows update will support such a chip, and the one after that will *require* one |
| 16:20:21 | HCl | at least, if everything goes as microsoft planned. |
| 16:20:31 | ShyK | those are rumors HCl. |
| 16:20:46 | HCl | sigh, not rumors.. i lost the site, i'll try and find it :/ |
| 16:20:58 | HCl | the chip's already present in ibm thinkpad laptops -.- |
| 16:21:43 | HCl | ahyes. |
| 16:21:48 | HCl | its called palladium |
| 16:22:03 | ShyK | Microsoft will not outcast its main userbase, who is "pirates". Microsoft is deliberately allowing Windows to be used by "pirates". and it's not going to change any time. |
| 16:22:05 | HCl | http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,274309,00.asp |
| 16:22:26 | ShyK | extremetech is not what i call i reliable source |
| 16:22:32 | HCl | it was first called tcpa |
| 16:22:34 | ShyK | a* |
| 16:22:39 | HCl | sorry, i got the first link i found with google :P |
| 16:22:42 | HCl | but fine |
| 16:22:48 | HCl | i don't really care if you don't believe me o.o; |
| 16:22:55 | HCl | its not like i want to put in the effort |
| 16:23:03 | ShyK | i don't need to believe you or not, there are rumors and there are facts. |
| 16:23:18 | Zagor | palladium is real, but does not affect the free world. you can still choose not to be bound by bills shackles. |
| 16:23:30 | HCl | Zagor: yes, but it'll be like how linux <-> windows are now. |
| 16:23:43 | HCl | its cumbersome to run linux because its far from as supported as windwos |
| 16:23:45 | HCl | windows |
| 16:23:48 | Zagor | enforcing it can actually benefit linux uptake |
| 16:23:55 | HCl | yes, thats very true. |
| 16:24:06 | HCl | i'm kind of hoping that'll happen. |
| 16:25:17 | LinusN | the sad thing is that most users are probably totally unaware of the whole drm thing |
| 16:25:24 | HCl | they are. |
| 16:25:33 | HCl | and its not without a reason, companys like it that way. |
| 16:25:39 | HCl | till they're so grown into drm |
| 16:25:42 | HCl | that there's no way back |
| 16:25:44 | LinusN | exactly |
| 16:25:58 | HCl | same exact reason |
| 16:26:06 | HCl | why microsoft is keeping palladium on the down low |
| 16:26:26 | LinusN | there are very few conscious users, "with a brain", as jyp put it |
| 16:26:39 | HCl | *sighs* |
| 16:26:40 | HCl | :/ |
| 16:26:48 | HCl | ah well. |
| 16:26:52 | HCl | i know i'll resist all the way. |
| 16:27:06 | ShyK | this will never happen. drm will never succeed in large scale. in order to succeed, especially for big companies, they need "illegal" users. it's an integral part. "illegal" users are the main cause for most successes of software as well as hardware. |
| 16:27:38 | LinusN | not the media business |
| 16:27:47 | ShyK | especially the media business |
| 16:27:48 | LinusN | Time Warner doesn't depend on pirates |
| 16:28:07 | ShyK | everyone depends on pirates |
| 16:28:22 | ShyK | their products would gain near to no recognition without it |
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| 16:28:39 | LinusN | i don't get it |
| 16:28:45 | jyp | If I were them, I'd give away the drm computers & make money with the content. |
| 16:29:01 | LinusN | you mean the dvd:s won't sell if they aren't copied? |
| 16:29:05 | Zagor | jyp: why, when you can make money on both? |
| 16:29:46 | jyp | It's a proven marketing model ;) |
| 16:29:57 | ShyK | LinusN: for example, many people rent dvds in order to copy them. they wouldn't have rented them if they couldn't do that. they'd just download from somewhere. |
| 16:30:42 | jyp | French people could give their experience with "minitel"... |
| 16:30:56 | jyp | the same approach |
| 16:31:00 | LinusN | ShyK: i believe very few people rent dvd:s to copy them, they don't even have the equipment |
| 16:31:50 | LinusN | few people compared to those who rent them only to watch them |
| 16:31:53 | ShyK | you base that assumption on nothing as opposed to me, i've been checking things like this on forums and places everywhere. it's a very popular thing to rent a dvd for cheap and copy it. |
| 16:32:21 | Bagder | based on all my friends, it is very rare |
| 16:32:25 | Bagder | I wouldn't do it myself |
| 16:32:25 | LinusN | and how many average users do you think frequent these forums? |
| 16:32:35 | Zagor | ShyK: there's a real world out there. full of people who don't even know there are forums where such things are discussed. |
| 16:32:48 | HCl | actually, most dvds tend to be larger than dvd-r's, and its not trivial to copy them |
| 16:32:57 | HCl | unless you own a dual layer dvd writer. |
| 16:33:03 | HCl | and dual layer dvd-r's are expensive |
| 16:33:05 | ShyK | if you think i don't know about the "real world" and the "geek world" you're wrong. i'm not only talking about online. |
| 16:33:08 | LinusN | exactly, and those are pretty new |
| 16:33:09 | HCl | cause then you could just as well buy the dvd |
| 16:33:23 | HCl | ofcourse, creating a divx out of a dvd is well possible |
| 16:33:27 | HCl | but i wouldn't really call that a copy |
| 16:33:34 | LinusN | and absolutely not for the average user |
| 16:33:43 | ShyK | people don't care if it's a perfect or not perfect copy |
| 16:33:49 | Zagor | ShyK: good. then you know 95% of people don't even have dvd writers. |
| 16:34:26 | ShyK | Zagor: i mentioned one example. |
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| 16:35:41 | ShyK | many people download movies in not full quality, watch them, and if they decide they really like the movie, they buy it. many don't buy of course, many don't have the money to spend. |
| 16:36:18 | ShyK | very many people have been buying the star wars trilogy dvds |
| 16:36:25 | LinusN | most of my non-geek friends don't even know how to dowload a movie |
| 16:36:26 | ShyK | why? it's not like they haven't downloaded it all |
| 16:36:44 | ShyK | everyone knows about kazaa at least |
| 16:36:50 | Bagder | no |
| 16:37:11 | elinenbe | LinusN: congrats on the iriver progress... It's looking G-R-E-A-T! Has anyone else tried the bootloader yet? |
| 16:37:21 | LinusN | i hope not :-) |
| 16:37:25 | Bagder | the iriver rockbox doesn't do anything yet |
| 16:37:38 | Bagder | trying the bootloader is fairly pointless |
| 16:37:52 | LinusN | all risk to no gain |
| 16:37:58 | Bagder | I'll await Linus' change of panic() ;-) |
| 16:38:08 | LinusN | :-) |
| 16:50:33 | Bagder | it struck me that one advantage of adding a bootloader built to the cvs build table, is that then we could offer downloads of the bleeding bootloaders too |
| 16:50:56 | LinusN | yes |
| 16:51:45 | LinusN | also, we should verify it with the most popular versions of the original firmware |
| 16:52:04 | Bagder | yeps |
| 16:52:17 | LinusN | i think a wiki page with the "approved" versions of the boot loader |
| 16:54:15 | Bagder | ok, I added a bootloader build just now |
| 16:54:45 | Bagder | I'm considering converting the titles to rotated images |
| 16:54:54 | Bagder | to make each column narrower |
| 16:55:35 | Bagder | anyone with a patch pending? |
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| 16:57:30 | Zagor | nope |
| 16:59:12 | * | LinusN browses the patch tracker |
| 16:59:20 | LinusN | lots of pending patches .-) |
| 16:59:26 | Zagor | :) |
| 16:59:35 | * | Bagder pokes LinusN with a stick |
| 16:59:39 | LinusN | ouch |
| 17:00 |
| 17:02:46 | Bagder | I'll also provide a diff-link in the HTML page describing changes in a particular commit |
| 17:03:00 | Bagder | I miss that at times |
| 17:03:10 | LinusN | cool |
| 17:05:02 | Bagder | bbl |
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| 17:37:06 | * | HCl returns |
| 17:37:08 | HCl | hey markun |
| 17:37:12 | markun | Hi! |
| 17:37:15 | HCl | sup? |
| 17:37:31 | markun | Busy day. |
| 17:37:34 | HCl | mhm. |
| 17:37:34 | HCl | same. |
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| 20:19:50 | | Join preglow [0] (thomj@s183a.studby.ntnu.no) |
| 20:19:58 | preglow | ahoy |
| 20:20:30 | Bagder | hehe, my diff-link was pretty lame |
| 20:20:56 | Bagder | http://www.rockbox.org/cvsmod/cvsmod-2005-01-31%2018:00:01.html |
| 20:23:44 | | Join Moteuchi [0] (~AZ2202MOD@83.132.156.10) |
| 20:24:17 | | Quit Moteuchi (Client Quit) |
| 20:26:40 | preglow | so, anyone tested the bootloader yet? |
| 20:27:40 | Bagder | nah |
| 20:27:44 | Bagder | nothing to boot yet really |
| 20:29:23 | preglow | sure, coding an off switch first would probably be wise |
| 20:29:43 | Bagder | and something more than flashing backlight ;-) |
| 20:29:59 | preglow | but i sure would like to code something, but think linus' advice of waiting for someone closer to the bdm interface to test it was good |
| 20:30:08 | preglow | haha |
| 20:30:34 | Bagder | I'll proceed after some further changes by Linus |
| 20:30:55 | preglow | goodie |
| 20:46:32 | * | HCl grins. |
| 20:56:38 | HCl | what is minimon exactly? and why is it called that? |
| 20:58:17 | Bagder | its a "monitor program" and I take it is small == mini |
| 20:58:33 | Bagder | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/UartBoot |
| 21:00 |
| 21:03:38 | preglow | the irivers have a functioning serial port that just lack a connector, yes? |
| 21:03:53 | Bagder | yes |
| 21:04:01 | Bagder | afaiu |
| 21:04:25 | preglow | i think someone detected that the original firmware wrote garbage to it, so it probably works |
| 21:04:28 | preglow | which is good news |
| 21:04:30 | Bagder | we should work on getting a gdb stub working for it |
| 21:04:34 | preglow | yes |
| 21:04:49 | Bagder | Linus wrote one for the Archos, and he says its not that hard |
| 21:05:05 | preglow | i wouldn't know, i'm not very proficient with gdb |
| 21:05:18 | Bagder | I trust his words ;-) |
| 21:05:37 | preglow | heh, i don't see why he should lie, no |
| 21:08:57 | preglow | i even have a level converter chip in my drawer, woot |
| 21:10:29 | Bagder | :-) |
| 21:16:41 | amiconn | Bagder: There seems to be a bug in viewcvs, see http://www.rockbox.org/viewcvs.cgi/apps/misc.c.diff?r1=1.23&r2=1.24 . It claims there were no changes, which isn't true. |
| 21:17:10 | amiconn | There was a change in whitespace (only), but *within* a string. |
| 21:17:29 | Bagder | yes, select unidiff and it is shown |
| 21:18:19 | amiconn | Hmm. |
| 21:18:25 | Bagder | I guess it has no context sensitivity |
| 21:18:34 | Bagder | so whitespace-change is always just whitespace change |
| 21:20:56 | Bagder | btw, my diff fix works now |
| 21:21:03 | Bagder | http://www.rockbox.org/cvsmod/cvsmod-2005-01-31%2019:40:01.html |
| 21:22:44 | Bagder | ah, and the iriver boot build works now too |
| 21:39:10 | | Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (~Joerg@pD95125A6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:39:52 | [IDC]Dragon | why do we want the bootloader in the daily build? |
| 21:40:04 | Bagder | to make sure it builds fine |
| 21:40:17 | Bagder | and to be able to provide bleeding edge builds |
| 21:40:22 | [IDC]Dragon | for good reason, we don't do so with the Archos one neither |
| 21:40:51 | [IDC]Dragon | well, at least no public download |
| 21:41:09 | [IDC]Dragon | and anybody fooling around with it |
| 21:41:46 | [IDC]Dragon | ...everybody... |
| 21:41:55 | Bagder | gotta go |
| 21:47:53 | | Quit methangas (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- \o/") |
| 21:50:41 | HCl | whats a gdb stub? |
| 21:55:16 | preglow | a little program for the player that lets you debug it over a serial port, i'd guess |
| 22:00 |
| 22:15:18 | | Nick Spida_ is now known as Spida (Spida@pD952C8FB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:15:48 | | Join [IDC]Dragon2 [0] (~Joerg@pD95125A6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:16:25 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 22:23:50 | | Quit [IDC]Dragon (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 22:23:50 | | Nick [IDC]Dragon2 is now known as [IDC]Dragon (~Joerg@pD95125A6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:37:20 | amiconn | hi [IDC]Dragon |
| 22:39:30 | [IDC]Dragon | hi Jens |
| 22:39:50 | amiconn | I just sent you an email with some info about my MMC image. |
| 22:39:56 | [IDC]Dragon | you've been productive yesterday :-) |
| 22:40:08 | amiconn | Did you already find some time to look into it? |
| 22:40:14 | * | [IDC]Dragon looks |
| 22:42:50 | [IDC]Dragon | I've just installed a tool to write the image back |
| 22:43:08 | amiconn | Don't you have cygwin installed? |
| 22:43:15 | amiconn | I simply used dd |
| 22:44:04 | [IDC]Dragon | ok, can try that |
| 22:44:26 | * | [IDC]Dragon grabs the MMC |
| 22:44:38 | amiconn | You'll need the virtual device name for the drive (the Ondio or the card reader, whatever |
| 22:44:40 | amiconn | ) |
| 22:45:04 | [IDC]Dragon | my notebook conveniently has a slot for it |
| 22:46:09 | amiconn | Open the disk management console ("Datenträgerverwaltung"), and check the drive number ("Datenträger <n>") |
| 22:46:27 | | Quit edx () |
| 22:46:36 | amiconn | Drive 0 is /dev/sda in cygwin, drive 1 is /dev/sdb and so on |
| 22:47:16 | amiconn | I'm certain you don't want to overwrite /dev/sda ;-) |
| 22:47:39 | HCl | preglow: oh.. i thought that was already possible for iriver |
| 22:48:45 | [IDC]Dragon | it doesn't shop up there |
| 22:49:01 | [IDC]Dragon | but got drive E: |
| 22:49:34 | amiconn | It has to show up there if it is recognised... |
| 22:49:59 | amiconn | The drive letter is irrelevant. |
| 22:50:13 | [IDC]Dragon | the card is definitely accessible |
| 22:51:42 | [IDC]Dragon | but not shown in "Datenträgerverwaltung" |
| 22:52:45 | amiconn | That's strange; I never observed such behaviour on all machines I have access to (that's a lot) |
| 22:53:00 | amiconn | Does the Ondio show up there when you connect it? |
| 22:53:09 | preglow | HCl: nah, only other possible debugging option is bdm, as far as i know |
| 22:53:47 | [IDC]Dragon | later, can't test now |
| 22:56:46 | | Join uski [0] (~uski@lns-p19-19-idf-82-65-131-249.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 22:59:56 | Bagder | you think images like this would be a good idea for the cvs build table? => http://www.rockbox.org/auto/pix.html |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:47 | Bagder | would make the columns less wide |
| 23:02:12 | amiconn | Maybe. However, it would be better if readable from the right side. Can't this be done with css? |
| 23:02:14 | [IDC]Dragon | uh, tha's narrow ;-) |
| 23:02:34 | Bagder | nope, css can't rotate |
| 23:02:36 | [IDC]Dragon | how many more do you expect? |
| 23:02:46 | Bagder | I don't know |
| 23:03:03 | preglow | ahh, i really dislike rotated table headers :/ |
| 23:03:28 | Bagder | I guess I should wait until the table is too wide for most people's browser windows |
| 23:03:49 | preglow | heh |
| 23:04:07 | Bagder | these images are all created automatically by my script anyway, so it is an easy fix |
| 23:08:21 | preglow | it exactly fits in my window |
| 23:08:39 | preglow | ahh, no, it's resizes itself :P |
| 23:08:55 | preglow | small wonder, then |
| 23:11:02 | | Join _aLF [0] (Alexandre@mutualite-3-82-67-66-128.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 23:11:04 | _aLF | hi |
| 23:11:21 | | Quit uski ("Leaving") |
| 23:12:52 | [IDC]Dragon | I can't USB-access the MMC in the ondio |
| 23:13:09 | amiconn | Huh? |
| 23:13:11 | [IDC]Dragon | perhaps something broken with hotswap? |
| 23:13:20 | [IDC]Dragon | internal mem works |
| 23:13:46 | [IDC]Dragon | anyway, later, away now |
| 23:13:50 | amiconn | Works for me... |
| 23:15:40 | [IDC]Dragon | not away |
| 23:16:01 | [IDC]Dragon | internal shows up in disk management |
| 23:16:50 | [IDC]Dragon | ah, now |
| 23:17:50 | | Quit elinenbe (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- s0 d4Mn l33t |t'z 5c4rY!") |
| 23:18:36 | [IDC]Dragon | it is /dev/sdb now |
| 23:19:13 | [IDC]Dragon | do you have the command line at hand, to restore? |
| 23:19:46 | amiconn | dd if=mmc_dump.bin of=/dev/sdb |
| 23:20:07 | amiconn | Be sure to have the write cache off |
| 23:20:35 | [IDC]Dragon | too late |
| 23:21:07 | amiconn | At least don't access it with explorer before removing and reinserting. |
| 23:21:08 | [IDC]Dragon | but I think it's off by default |
| 23:22:02 | amiconn | (Or accessing it at all via the file system. Maybe the file system uses cached info...) |
| 23:22:05 | [IDC]Dragon | 1 GB took 30 min |
| 23:22:20 | [IDC]Dragon | so this may be like 7 min |
| 23:23:01 | amiconn | Write cache is off by default if you use the Windows supplied drivers. The archos drivers (necessary for player/studio) switches it on by default. |
| 23:24:04 | | Join einhirn [0] (Miranda@carlsberg.heim2.tu-clausthal.de) |
| 23:35:02 | HCl | preglow: whats the difference...? |
| 23:37:22 | preglow | HCl: the bdm interface is tons more low level |
| 23:37:32 | preglow | HCl: and requires heaps more wiring |
| 23:38:03 | HCl | okay.. |
| 23:38:16 | HCl | but you still need to like, open up the entire iriver for stuff, right? |
| 23:43:46 | | Quit einhirn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:45:47 | preglow | yes |
| 23:46:43 | | Join khira [0] (~khira@trstenik.air.tehnicom.net) |
| 23:46:59 | | Join einhirn [0] (Miranda@carlsberg.heim2.tu-clausthal.de) |
| 23:47:42 | khira | hey |
| 23:51:08 | [IDC]Dragon | amiconn, dd is still working. I'll leave it overnight now |
| 23:51:14 | [IDC]Dragon | c u! |
| 23:51:25 | | Quit [IDC]Dragon (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- \o/") |
| 23:51:59 | | Join amiconn_ [0] (~jens@pD9E7F280.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:52:37 | | Quit khira ("http://herzeleid.com/") |
| 23:52:40 | | Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.) |
| 23:52:40 | | Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (~jens@pD9E7F280.dip.t-dialin.net) |
icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).