| 00:00:24 | amiconn | Hmm. It seems I am unable to find their current source code on the site... |
| 00:00:42 | Bagder | yes, I read commit mails |
| 00:01:25 | Bagder | http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum=openneo-cvs |
| 00:01:59 | Bagder | the do all their development somewhere else and bulk-commit once every few months |
| 00:02:19 | Bagder | or so it seems at least |
| 00:03:35 | CoCoLUS | any news on the multi codec arch.? |
| 00:05:11 | | Join vol [0] (~jugga@cpe-24-194-97-147.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 00:05:37 | | Quit Rick (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 00:06:56 | | Join Rick [0] (rick@wbar25.lax1-4.28.143.213.lax1.dsl-verizon.net) |
| 00:13:44 | | Join GCarrier [0] (~gcarrier@tofu.eu.org) |
| 00:16:13 | | Join kergoth [0] (~kergoth@covenant.kergoth.com) |
| 00:16:33 | amiconn | Bagder: Haha, it's indeed similar. Why do they come up with that now... strange... ? ;-) |
| 00:17:22 | Bagder | well, they move in mysterious ways ;-) |
| 00:18:43 | amiconn | From looking at it, their main loop should be a bit faster (unrolled once), but their initial and final tests look like they're slower |
| 00:20:02 | amiconn | I remember that it was really difficult to get the initial test (for short strings) to perform at least with the same speed as the C function. |
| 00:20:17 | amiconn | I first had a looped version as they do. It was slower |
| 00:21:14 | | Join LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se) |
| 00:21:20 | Bagder | hi LinusN |
| 00:21:37 | amiconn | hi LinusN |
| 00:22:56 | LinusN | shalom |
| 00:23:21 | HCl | gheh. |
| 00:24:09 | amiconn | LinusN: I finally managed to write my graphics api documentation / proposal wiki page. http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GraphicsAPI |
| 00:26:51 | LinusN | goodie |
| 00:28:35 | amiconn | Grr, next wiki spammer.... |
| 00:40:50 | | Join StrathAFK [0] (~mike@dgvlwinas01pool0-a202.wi.tds.net) |
| 00:41:29 | XShocK | LinusN: hi |
| 00:41:33 | LinusN | helo |
| 00:42:02 | XShocK | LinusN: do you know what is maximum real bandwidth of USB 2.0 hi-speed channel? |
| 00:42:12 | XShocK | LinusN: in megabytes of real data |
| 00:42:14 | LinusN | 480mbit/s? |
| 00:42:33 | XShocK | yes... but those stop bits... other collision stuf... |
| 00:42:54 | LinusN | so i guess it is in the vicinity of 40Mbyte/s |
| 00:43:07 | XShocK | ok.. that is what i think too. |
| 00:44:32 | LinusN | some pages claim up to 60Mb, others say 50Mb |
| 00:46:29 | XShocK | then it is pretty good. :) |
| 00:48:18 | XShocK | btw, i have a question on SDRAM. it says that the minimum seek time for a address for Samsung ram is 5.5ns, and maximum is 1000ns. what is it depend on? |
| 00:50:13 | | Quit Rick (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 00:50:52 | LinusN | XShocK: "seek time"????? |
| 00:51:10 | LinusN | there is no such thing as "seek time" in SDRAM |
| 00:51:33 | LinusN | maybe you mean "access time"? |
| 00:51:45 | XShocK | CLK cycle time. |
| 00:52:23 | LinusN | well, i guess their sdram isn't made to run with a too slow clock |
| 00:52:45 | XShocK | i just saw in on http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/pub/Main/DataSheets/Samsung_K4S561632D.pdf on page 8 i think... |
| 00:53:00 | XShocK | i saw 1000ns and was very scared by it |
| 00:53:13 | XShocK | so what does it mean? |
| 00:53:15 | LinusN | in fact, with a too slow clock, all available bandwidth will be used for refresh, so there will be no time left for actuall memory access |
| 00:53:37 | LinusN | scared? |
| 00:54:42 | XShocK | i was scared since if that memory sometimes require 1000ns just to access a byte of data, it will certainly not do the job i wanted it to do. |
| 00:54:54 | XShocK | i just wanted to know what that 1000ns actually ment |
| 00:56:18 | LinusN | clk cycle time is how fast the CLK can be |
| 00:56:37 | XShocK | mmm. ok. then fine. :)) |
| 00:57:02 | | Join preglow [0] (thomj@s183a.studby.ntnu.no) |
| 00:57:25 | LinusN | but all accesses are equally fast with the same CLk rate |
| 00:58:02 | XShocK | so no matter what address i choose in ram it will be accessed in the same amount of time? |
| 00:58:10 | LinusN | yes |
| 00:58:23 | preglow | anyone know what's inside of the ifp9xx boys? |
| 00:58:41 | LinusN | the first access in a burst takes 5 clocks, and the following accesses take 1 clock each |
| 00:59:05 | LinusN | preglow: no, but it could be the philips chip |
| 00:59:28 | | Quit Strath (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:59:35 | preglow | probably is |
| 00:59:54 | XShocK | preglow: i think i saw it somewhere. wait a sec |
| 01:00 |
| 01:01:36 | XShocK | hhm.. no sorry |
| 01:01:38 | preglow | i want a good excuse to learn arm asm, god damnit! |
| 01:02:16 | XShocK | http://www.itime.cn/Article_Show.asp?ArticleID=3419&ArticlePage=7 |
| 01:02:39 | XShocK | found something.. i don't know chineese thou.. :) |
| 01:03:44 | preglow | i wish the table was even smaller |
| 01:04:51 | XShocK | http://www.itime.cn/UploadFiles/2004101311493811.gif |
| 01:04:58 | XShocK | the link was under it |
| 01:05:02 | LinusN | looks like the SAA7750 chipset |
| 01:05:46 | LinusN | no, wait, it's a newer one |
| 01:05:55 | preglow | i love secretive hardware manufacturers |
| 01:05:55 | preglow | arghh |
| 01:07:54 | | Quit _Lucretia_ ("Leaving") |
| 01:08:02 | preglow | what do we know of the dsp part in the saa7750? nothing? |
| 01:08:29 | preglow | why do they even have a dsp part? arm should be more then capable of doing most dsp efficiently |
| 01:09:37 | LinusN | preglow: efficiently, perhaps, but the epic core is probably a lot more efficient than the arm7 |
| 01:10:12 | preglow | well, yes, dedicated dsp cores will always be more efficient for dsp than other designs, obviously |
| 01:10:16 | LinusN | we know a little about the epic core, but nothing about how to program it |
| 01:10:22 | preglow | what do we know? |
| 01:11:21 | LinusN | we know a little about how to communicate with it, but not much more |
| 01:11:37 | LinusN | i still have a dialog with philips about it |
| 01:12:39 | preglow | god, i wish they stopped being anal |
| 01:12:43 | preglow | what the hell have they got to loose? |
| 01:13:05 | LinusN | i don't think philips is that secretive about it |
| 01:13:25 | preglow | then hooray! |
| 01:13:37 | LinusN | it just isn't practical for customers to program the dsp core themselves |
| 01:13:49 | LinusN | so no customer has wanted to do it |
| 01:13:58 | | Join Rick [0] (rick@wbar25.lax1-4.28.143.213.lax1.dsl-verizon.net) |
| 01:14:12 | LinusN | that's probably why the epic programmers guide wasn't released |
| 01:14:48 | LinusN | so there is still a small chance that we can get the information |
| 01:14:53 | preglow | that would be great indeed |
| 01:14:59 | LinusN | as long as it doesn't cost philips anything |
| 01:15:19 | LinusN | they don't want to be burdened by loads of support questions |
| 01:15:23 | | Join DJ_Dooms_Day [0] (~scottr@dialup-252.15.220.203.acc10-dryb-mel.comindico.com.au) |
| 01:15:25 | preglow | well, it shouldn't provided they have the documentation in a practical form |
| 01:15:44 | LinusN | and there is a risk that the epic programmers guide doesn't exist at all |
| 01:15:48 | preglow | indeed |
| 01:16:14 | LinusN | we'll see... |
| 01:16:40 | preglow | would be fun, for sure |
| 01:16:58 | LinusN | indeed |
| 01:17:19 | preglow | i love learning about new architectures |
| 01:18:49 | XShocK | can someone recomend a good source of knowledge of digital electronics? |
| 01:18:51 | preglow | i also happen to want a flash based portable, heh |
| 01:19:11 | LinusN | XShocK: you mean an online resource for learning? |
| 01:19:26 | XShocK | online or paperprinted, any |
| 01:19:30 | XShocK | yes |
| 01:19:36 | LinusN | i have no idea... :-) |
| 01:19:47 | preglow | heh |
| 01:19:51 | | Join XavierGr [0] (~3e01ea1a@labb.contactor.se) |
| 01:20:00 | preglow | i've got a couple of books |
| 01:20:07 | preglow | but have no idea whether they're any good |
| 01:20:28 | XShocK | say their names anyway |
| 01:20:32 | DJ_Dooms_Day | what do you mean by digital electronics? |
| 01:20:43 | LinusN | i guess amazon has hundreds of books about digital electronics |
| 01:20:48 | preglow | i would have to dig in my book pile |
| 01:21:04 | preglow | the sedra & smith one springs to mind, but that's analogue electronics as well |
| 01:21:32 | * | LinusN hasn't read a single book about digital electronics |
| 01:21:34 | XShocK | preglow: don't worry, i though that they right near you. :) |
| 01:22:08 | preglow | XShocK: i'm sorry, i can't, i'm using a ton of books as support for my vinyl records, and the books in question are behind that arrangement, heh |
| 01:22:37 | * | preglow needs a bigger appartment |
| 01:22:46 | XShocK | but where to get that info? i had never ever thought that there is such a thing as FPGA |
| 01:22:54 | preglow | oh, there is |
| 01:23:11 | preglow | i've got a book on vhdl, i think |
| 01:23:25 | preglow | i can't remember what i've sold and what i've still got |
| 01:23:31 | XShocK | :) |
| 01:23:39 | | Quit XavierGr (Client Quit) |
| 01:23:40 | Camilo | XShocK, you could do worse than scour the support sites of the major semiconductor manufacturers |
| 01:23:57 | LinusN | Rushton, VHDL for Logic Synthesis |
| 01:24:10 | Camilo | they usually have reasonable downloads for manuals, application notes, white papers, demo code etc. |
| 01:24:22 | LinusN | it seems i did read a book about digital electronics after all... :-) |
| 01:24:30 | Camilo | then if you come across something you don't get, use google :) |
| 01:24:32 | XShocK | :) |
| 01:25:11 | XShocK | i don't get the difference between sram and sdram. :) |
| 01:25:12 | Camilo | for programmable logic, start with PIC chips... |
| 01:26:09 | LinusN | XShocK: static ram and dynamic ram are two very different architectures |
| 01:26:22 | Camilo | the 'd' is the difference... dynamic ram is more complex to use but cheaper because it's simpler |
| 01:26:23 | XShocK | Camilo: i have done a card emulator on pic 16f84a, it worked, but i couldn't manage it to work as i wanted because it didn't have enough speed. |
| 01:27:02 | LinusN | basically, dynamic ram can't hold the contents for very long, it has to be rewritten with the same info over and over again, called the "refresh" |
| 01:27:14 | XShocK | but both are accessed in the same amount of time, right? |
| 01:27:25 | LinusN | sram is usually faster |
| 01:27:27 | preglow | depends on design, but no, usually not |
| 01:27:55 | LinusN | dram is accessed as a matrix, using rows and columns |
| 01:27:55 | Camilo | if you're using dynamic ram you have to consider what will refresh it etc. |
| 01:28:19 | LinusN | so you give it the row address first, then the column |
| 01:28:28 | LinusN | this slows down the accesses |
| 01:30:10 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 01:30:27 | XShocK | I don't get one more thing. this refresh process. Camilo, you said that i should manage refreshing those capacitors by myself? |
| 01:30:31 | LinusN | XShocK: google is your friend, there are lots of pages describing the basics of electronics |
| 01:30:48 | LinusN | XShocK: yes, the dram controller has to refresh the dram |
| 01:30:56 | Camilo | CPUs and microcontrollers tend to have refresh circuitry |
| 01:31:13 | Camilo | so you have to configure them to refresh according to the parameters ofthe DRAM you're using |
| 01:31:37 | LinusN | the programmer doesn't have to care about the refresh once the dram controller is set up |
| 01:31:39 | XShocK | ok. thanks.i though it does in itself. |
| 01:31:54 | Camilo | but you are constrained - usually to using the same sorts of row/column numbering for all your dram banks |
| 01:33:38 | LinusN | XShocK: actually, sdram has a self-refresh mode, but that is for powersaving purposes, when the computer sleeps |
| 01:34:13 | amiconn | LinusN: Speaking about access speeds - the sdram data path in the iriver is 32 bits wide, and 4-byte bursts are possible, correct? |
| 01:34:23 | LinusN | nope |
| 01:34:29 | LinusN | the path is 16-bit |
| 01:34:50 | preglow | lovely |
| 01:34:59 | LinusN | yeah, isn't it? :-) |
| 01:35:02 | preglow | so a one dword burst takes seven cycles |
| 01:35:08 | LinusN | as lame as it gets |
| 01:35:35 | LinusN | one dword = 5+1 bus cycles |
| 01:35:48 | LinusN | if a dword is 32 bits |
| 01:36:16 | amiconn | Okay, data path is 16 bits, but 4-*word* bursts are possible.... |
| 01:36:52 | preglow | ahh, i thought the 5 cycle first access was without data read |
| 01:37:14 | LinusN | no, that includes the first word |
| 01:37:16 | amiconn | That means, if someone implements memcpy() and memset() using movem and an even number of registers, it should get a nice speedup... |
| 01:37:30 | preglow | indeed |
| 01:37:37 | LinusN | yup |
| 01:37:41 | preglow | so long as the move/copy is big enough |
| 01:37:42 | amiconn | Too bad my iriver still didn't arrive... |
| 01:37:57 | LinusN | amiconn: don't hold your breath |
| 01:38:05 | Camilo | night folks |
| 01:38:09 | LinusN | Camilo: nite |
| 01:38:13 | | Quit Camilo ("Chatzilla 0.9.67 [Mozilla rv:1.8b2/20050309]") |
| 01:38:13 | XShocK | good night |
| 01:38:15 | * | Bagder goes to sleep as well |
| 01:38:24 | * | LinusN should sleep too |
| 01:38:30 | * | preglow is very tired |
| 01:38:37 | preglow | and ignoring it for the third hour |
| 01:38:45 | LinusN | :-) |
| 01:38:49 | | Join elinenbe [0] (trilluser@207-237-225-9.c3-0.nyr-ubr1.nyr.ny.cable.rcn.com) |
| 01:38:50 | preglow | it's getting harder |
| 01:39:03 | XShocK | and I need to finish my Psychology outline. :) |
| 01:39:05 | preglow | amiconn: but yes, using movem for all memory transfer is a muust, really |
| 01:39:12 | LinusN | i better go to sleep too |
| 01:39:25 | preglow | i need to write report, code a module and apply for jobs |
| 01:39:25 | preglow | haha |
| 01:39:26 | LinusN | XShocK: oooh, psychology...that was a long time ago... |
| 01:39:39 | preglow | i would rather sleep |
| 01:40:03 | XShocK | :) |
| 01:40:19 | preglow | thank god i don't have to get up very early tomorrow |
| 01:40:37 | * | LinusN will get up in about 3 hours |
| 01:40:44 | preglow | sounds absolutely delightful |
| 01:40:54 | LinusN | i can't wait... |
| 01:40:55 | preglow | were i you, i'd get in bed as soon as possible |
| 01:41:06 | LinusN | aye, aye, captain! |
| 01:41:09 | preglow | with only three hours sleep, i am near suicidal when i have to get up |
| 01:41:12 | | Quit elinenbe (Client Quit) |
| 01:41:14 | * | LinusN obeys and goes to sleep |
| 01:41:19 | LinusN | nite folks! |
| 01:41:22 | preglow | night |
| 01:41:24 | XShocK | night |
| 01:41:27 | | Part LinusN |
| 01:41:28 | amiconn | night |
| 01:45:26 | XShocK | one more question. how long can the data stay without refreshing? |
| 01:46:17 | preglow | a very short time |
| 01:46:22 | preglow | why worry about that? |
| 01:47:48 | XShocK | i want it to work on the fastest mode possible. and i know that it will stay in ram no more that 10-20ms. |
| 01:48:18 | preglow | well, i have no idea about specific numbers |
| 01:48:26 | preglow | but the memory caps discharge pretty fast, i think |
| 01:49:29 | XShocK | ok then. anyway it will probably will be dischanrged in that time. |
| 01:50:50 | XShocK | ok. will not bother anyone anymore. :) |
| 01:50:50 | preglow | probably |
| 01:50:56 | preglow | haha |
| 01:51:11 | preglow | i want to be bothered, writing reports are boring |
| 01:51:34 | XShocK | hehe.. same in here. |
| 02:00 |
| 02:11:26 | preglow | well |
| 02:11:28 | preglow | tired, bed next |
| 02:11:34 | preglow | night, all |
| 02:11:41 | | Quit preglow ("leaving") |
| 02:11:42 | amiconn | night |
| 02:11:59 | XShocK | night |
| 02:12:42 | | Quit Aison ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.72 :: www.XLhost.de )") |
| 02:25:44 | | Join Aison [0] (~hans@zux166-181.adsl.green.ch) |
| 03:00 |
| 03:19:08 | | Quit Sucka ("a bird in the bush is worth two in your house") |
| 03:19:37 | | Join Byron [0] (byron@63.77.203.136) |
| 03:19:40 | Byron | hello |
| 03:20:17 | Byron | I need some help, I put rockbox on my ondio and when I record the audio level won't go any lower than 21db |
| 03:28:39 | | Quit Aison ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.72 :: www.XLhost.de )") |
| 03:30:11 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 03:56:53 | | Quit DMJC ("Leaving") |
| 03:56:54 | | Quit Byron (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 03:57:51 | XShocK | does ondio already has record function? |
| 03:58:01 | XShocK | i mean rockbox |
| 04:00 |
| 04:06:03 | | Join QT_ [0] (as@area51.users.madwifi) |
| 04:08:54 | | Join Rocker [0] (~youthink@67.71.34.203) |
| 04:10:07 | | Part Rocker |
| 04:19:12 | | Quit QT (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 04:48:56 | XShocK | night all |
| 04:49:09 | | Quit XShocK (" Want to be different? HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-") |
| 05:00 |
| 05:00:20 | | Quit edx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 05:26:45 | | Quit Stryke` ("Friends don't let friends listen to Anti-Flag") |
| 05:30:15 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 05:33:39 | | Join Byron [0] (byron@63.77.203.136) |
| 05:33:44 | Byron | oops, I fell off |
| 05:34:02 | Byron | anyone know why the ondio won't let me record any lower than 21db |
| 05:35:50 | Byron | the record audio is really high and I can't turn it down |
| 05:54:24 | | Quit asdsd (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 05:54:25 | | Quit Byron (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 05:58:53 | | Join pizza_ [0] (~pizza@rrcs-24-73-230-86.se.biz.rr.com) |
| 05:59:29 | pizza_ | got a quick question. |
| 05:59:38 | pizza_ | Are there any known issues with the car adapter mode? |
| 06:00 |
| 06:00:29 | pizza_ | my JBR isn't pausing when power is disconnected. |
| 06:09:19 | | Quit jakepdev (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 06:19:20 | | Join edx [0] (edx@pD9EAAE58.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 06:24:26 | | Join cYmen_ [0] (~cymen@nat-ph3-wh.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de) |
| 06:25:48 | | Quit cYmen (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 06:31:38 | | Join bobdbob [0] (~bobdbob@ics151-142.icsincorporated.com) |
| 06:37:03 | | Quit pizza_ ("[BX] "I did not have sexual relations with that client, BitchX."") |
| 07:00 |
| 07:25:08 | | Join LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se) |
| 07:30:16 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 07:42:26 | | Quit GCarrier (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 07:51:09 | | Join matsl [0] (~matsl@1-1-4-2a.mal.sth.bostream.se) |
| 07:52:31 | | Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection) |
| 07:59:17 | | Join Byron [0] (byron@63.77.203.136) |
| 08:00 |
| 08:05:20 | Byron | I fell off again |
| 08:05:30 | Byron | anyone answered my question while I was gone? |
| 08:05:49 | LinusN | eh? |
| 08:06:07 | LinusN | recording level? |
| 08:06:27 | Byron | yeah |
| 08:06:30 | LinusN | we log all irc activity |
| 08:06:37 | Byron | when I record the lowest it'll go is 21 db |
| 08:06:43 | Byron | excellent |
| 08:07:05 | LinusN | check the IRC link on the rockbox site |
| 08:07:14 | LinusN | anyway, nobody answered it |
| 08:07:18 | Byron | oops |
| 08:07:19 | LinusN | so i'll answer now |
| 08:07:21 | Byron | can you? |
| 08:07:24 | Byron | YaY! |
| 08:07:34 | LinusN | no, the 21dB limit is in the hardware |
| 08:07:53 | LinusN | nothing we can do about it |
| 08:07:55 | Byron | ohh man, that sucks, all of my recordings are too hot |
| 08:08:14 | Byron | well, glad to know that the problem has been acknowledged |
| 08:08:35 | LinusN | you're not the only one with that problem |
| 08:08:59 | Byron | is there a way to tell rockbox not to change that aspect of the archos... if it works fine in the original firmware that is. |
| 08:09:20 | LinusN | i repeat: the 21dB limit is in the hardware |
| 08:10:03 | Byron | bummer, well thanks for the help and I hope someone comes up with some sort of audio compression or something to bypass the hardware limitation, but I doubt that can happen anyway. |
| 08:10:22 | Byron | thanks Linus, you've been a big help |
| 08:10:32 | LinusN | you're welcome |
| 08:10:41 | Byron | I can't find anything refering to this problem on google so I am glad I found someone who knows what is up |
| 08:11:11 | LinusN | hang on |
| 08:12:19 | LinusN | you record with the builtin mic, right? |
| 08:12:28 | Byron | yeah |
| 08:12:41 | LinusN | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GeneralFAQ#Q65_What_kind_of_mic_can_I_conne |
| 08:14:03 | Byron | thanks |
| 08:15:48 | Byron | is there a firmware upgrade for PMA400 |
| 08:16:54 | LinusN | what's that? |
| 08:17:04 | Byron | the new archos that is a pda |
| 08:17:14 | | Join Zagor [0] (foobar@h14n2fls31o265.telia.com) |
| 08:17:29 | LinusN | no, we have no plans for the pma400...yet |
| 08:17:36 | LinusN | morning Zagor |
| 08:18:40 | Zagor | hi. anyone got any ideas how to get rid of the twiki registration spam? manual screening is all I can think of :-( |
| 08:19:08 | LinusN | me too |
| 08:19:45 | LinusN | we can of course look for links in the user topic |
| 08:19:55 | LinusN | and alert the admins |
| 08:20:08 | Zagor | but not everyone adds links either |
| 08:20:18 | LinusN | it's a start |
| 08:20:42 | amiconn | Hmm, that would disallow links to someone's homepage.... |
| 08:20:48 | amiconn | Morning, btw :) |
| 08:20:53 | LinusN | not disallow |
| 08:21:14 | LinusN | just alert the admins when the topic is added or changed |
| 08:21:22 | LinusN | via email |
| 08:21:40 | LinusN | we check it and approve or delete, manually |
| 08:22:00 | LinusN | it's not that we're swamped with wiki spam...yet |
| 08:22:07 | Zagor | how about a rockbox-related question on the form? |
| 08:22:23 | Zagor | well we do get several bogus registrations per day. it's becoming a burden. |
| 08:22:28 | LinusN | good idea |
| 08:23:57 | LinusN | hehe, how about "which FAQ entry is about...blabla?" :-) |
| 08:25:15 | LinusN | or just "which color is the Rockbox logo?" |
| 08:25:34 | LinusN | anyway, are the wiki spam entries purely automated? |
| 08:25:50 | Zagor | no, they're manual. i tried changing the form and they still come. |
| 08:27:00 | LinusN | ok, so the questions have to be somewhat hard |
| 08:27:06 | Zagor | yes |
| 08:28:41 | LinusN | "name three of the Rockbox project staff members" :-) |
| 08:29:10 | Zagor | spelling would be a problem |
| 08:29:37 | LinusN | or a dropdown list of all wiki users |
| 08:29:47 | LinusN | multi-choice |
| 08:30:50 | LinusN | which of these 5 platforms is *not* supported by rockbox? |
| 08:31:29 | LinusN | reminds me of the rockbox-trivia irc channel :-) |
| 08:31:37 | Zagor | :) |
| 08:41:48 | Byron | is there a software mod that you guys could do to the rockbox fm 20 so that the line-in would accept a microphone? |
| 08:42:16 | Byron | I've got an amplifier and a mic and the archos in a fanny pack right now, but it'd be nice if I could get rid of the amp |
| 08:42:41 | Byron | the internal mic picks up all of that nasty hard drive noise, makes it useless |
| 08:42:47 | | Join ashridah [0] (ashridah@220-253-123-13.VIC.netspace.net.au) |
| 08:43:14 | Zagor | Byron: can't be done. you need the amplifier. |
| 08:43:40 | Byron | D'oh |
| 08:44:02 | Byron | any way to make the hard drive stop spinning up during recordings, maybe use some sort of memory buffer? |
| 08:44:25 | LinusN | rockbox doesn't spin up until the memory is full |
| 08:44:31 | Zagor | we already use all the memory we have, but when it's full we need to spin up the disk to store it |
| 08:45:19 | Byron | yea, bummer |
| 08:45:33 | Byron | it spins up every 3 mins or so, sometimes more frequantly |
| 08:46:01 | Zagor | yup, that sounds about right |
| 08:46:13 | LinusN | Byron: if you set the recording settings to record to the current directory, it won't spin up when you start the recording |
| 08:47:25 | LinusN | or you could buy an Ondio, which is a flash player/recorder, also supported by rockbox |
| 08:48:45 | Byron | right, but the audio won't go any lower than 21db |
| 08:48:54 | Byron | so I'm gonna get messy audio quality one way or the other |
| 08:49:07 | Byron | the best way to record so far, is to have an external mic |
| 08:49:19 | LinusN | yes |
| 08:49:20 | Zagor | that will always be the case |
| 08:51:19 | Bagder | "No need to put lcd_write() in the IRAM since it has to be slow." |
| 08:51:20 | Bagder | ;-) |
| 08:51:25 | Bagder | (from OpenNeo) |
| 08:52:24 | LinusN | i wonder why they removed the TOC support |
| 08:52:52 | Bagder | they do odd things |
| 08:56:46 | Bagder | the commen in the new code says "No TOC exists" |
| 08:56:48 | Bagder | comment |
| 08:56:55 | Bagder | even weirder |
| 08:57:13 | LinusN | indeed |
| 08:57:25 | Bagder | it makes me suspect they don't know what they |
| 08:57:27 | Bagder | 're doing |
| 08:59:15 | Bagder | "No need to support HD bigger than 2 TB" |
| 08:59:17 | Bagder | hehe |
| 09:00 |
| 09:04:33 | LinusN | maybe they're trying to save memory? |
| 09:04:52 | Bagder | yes, possibly |
| 09:05:09 | LinusN | 400 bytes per id3 entry...oooooh :-) |
| 09:05:11 | Bagder | their heap is growing so they need to cut off code ;-) |
| 09:05:16 | LinusN | 100 bytes |
| 09:05:53 | Bagder | 64KB for heap is a quite a lot when you only have 256 |
| 09:06:03 | LinusN | yup |
| 09:06:15 | Zagor | why did they add heap anyway? |
| 09:06:16 | LinusN | they're stuck in heap hell |
| 09:06:21 | Bagder | Zagor: m m m malloc |
| 09:06:32 | Zagor | yeah, but what are they using it for? |
| 09:06:43 | Bagder | nothing useful |
| 09:06:45 | LinusN | same thing as other heap junkies |
| 09:06:55 | Zagor | various bits and pieces? |
| 09:06:56 | DJ_Dooms_Day | I saw that theres apparently some primitive mpeg playback code on the CVS, does this mean we're close to getting mp3 playback? :) |
| 09:06:59 | | Quit ashridah (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 09:07:02 | Bagder | Zagor: yeps, just random stuff |
| 09:07:22 | LinusN | DJ_Dooms_Day: the mpeg playback you see is the archos playback code |
| 09:07:27 | Zagor | how very foolish |
| 09:07:30 | DJ_Dooms_Day | -_- |
| 09:07:34 | DJ_Dooms_Day | lies! |
| 09:07:48 | Bagder | Zagor: they do a lot of things we wouldn't... |
| 09:07:59 | Bagder | lies? |
| 09:08:29 | DJ_Dooms_Day | Im in denial, leave me be |
| 09:10:18 | * | Bagder pats DJ_Dooms_Day on his head. "Ok my son, now go and play with the other kids" ;*) |
| 09:17:57 | | Join Lynx_ [0] (HydraIRC@134.95.189.59) |
| 09:21:08 | | Join Schnueff [0] (~mah@134.96.247.232) |
| 09:30:19 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 09:30:41 | | Join bobTHC [0] (~foo@l07v-6-110.d1.club-internet.fr) |
| 09:30:41 | | Quit Bagder (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 09:31:13 | bobTHC | hi all! |
| 09:37:48 | | Join Bagder [0] (~daniel@1-1-5-26a.hud.sth.bostream.se) |
| 09:39:57 | | Quit gromit (Nick collision from services.) |
| 09:40:15 | | Join gromit` [0] (~gromit@ras75-5-82-234-244-69.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 09:41:18 | LinusN | morning Bagder |
| 09:41:26 | Bagder | hey |
| 09:44:24 | | Join kurzhaarrocker [0] (~Phil@p3E9C2EAB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:45:15 | kurzhaarrocker | LinusN you're evil. Instead of commiting the triggered recording patch you made a cvs conflict. :) |
| 09:46:17 | LinusN | muhahahahaaaaa |
| 09:46:19 | * | Bagder verifies that LinusN is evil |
| 09:46:35 | LinusN | kurzhaarrocker: sorry about that |
| 09:46:51 | kurzhaarrocker | no problem. Rockbox lives and thats good. |
| 09:55:42 | kurzhaarrocker | It was extremly easy to fix anyway - just an additional include |
| 09:56:31 | * | LinusN updates the patch tracker |
| 09:58:25 | kurzhaarrocker | Äh? What do you mean with update? It certainly won't mean you update the patch of triggered recording? |
| 09:58:42 | LinusN | i just did |
| 09:58:52 | kurzhaarrocker | ups. Thanks! :) |
| 10:00 |
| 10:04:03 | * | LinusN is installing the peak meter patch on his recorder |
| 10:04:20 | kurzhaarrocker | Hooray! :D |
| 10:04:26 | * | kurzhaarrocker jumps up and down in joy |
| 10:06:48 | LinusN | i like the new trigger bar |
| 10:08:27 | * | kurzhaarrocker searches something to wag with |
| 10:08:48 | LinusN | is the trigger enabled by default? |
| 10:09:16 | kurzhaarrocker | I don't think so. It shouldn't be. Triggered recording is something sepcial |
| 10:09:45 | LinusN | seems to be |
| 10:09:49 | kurzhaarrocker | But in my configs it is stored that I it records triggered -> I don't know the default by heart any more. |
| 10:10:50 | LinusN | seems like the cursor for the gain isn't drawn in the right place |
| 10:11:47 | LinusN | it seems to be correctly drawn when the cursor is an inverted bar |
| 10:11:58 | LinusN | but not when it's an arrow |
| 10:12:40 | kurzhaarrocker | Hm. I should have noticed that. My fault. Unfortunately my batteries are in an external charger right now -> can't verify. |
| 10:22:35 | LinusN | did you ditch the idea with the blinking led while waiting to trigger? |
| 10:23:28 | kurzhaarrocker | No. It should blink. |
| 10:24:01 | LinusN | it doesn't for me |
| 10:28:29 | | Join ashridah [0] (ashridah@220-253-121-18.VIC.netspace.net.au) |
| 10:29:37 | | Quit Ka (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 10:32:41 | kurzhaarrocker | The code that blinks the led in TRIG_STEADY state is in recording.c, line 388. I'll verify what happened as soon as my batteries are charged. |
| 10:34:01 | kurzhaarrocker | Hm. When the thing is prerecording - is (mpeg_stat & MPEG_STATUS_RECORD) == true? |
| 10:35:06 | LinusN | no |
| 10:35:49 | LinusN | then MPEG_STATUS_PRERECORD is set |
| 10:36:04 | kurzhaarrocker | That's what I thought. |
| 10:38:06 | LinusN | maybe i misunderstood |
| 10:38:27 | LinusN | it only blinks during the trig duration period |
| 10:38:38 | kurzhaarrocker | That is the intension |
| 10:38:48 | LinusN | and not just when the trigger is armed, which i thought it would do |
| 10:39:13 | LinusN | my mistake |
| 10:39:25 | | Join Patr3ck [0] (~patr3ck@pD9ECF52C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:39:44 | kurzhaarrocker | It was a useful feature to be able to distinguish wether the trigger threshold has been reached from the distance. |
| 10:40:40 | kurzhaarrocker | It is only useful for long trigger times though. |
| 10:41:56 | LinusN | is the wiki manual up to date? |
| 10:42:41 | kurzhaarrocker | no |
| 10:42:45 | | Join bzerk86 [0] (~Brian@66.cust16.sa.dsl.ozemail.com.au) |
| 10:42:47 | kurzhaarrocker | <- meeting :( |
| 10:43:33 | | Nick QT_ is now known as QT (as@area51.users.madwifi) |
| 10:56:54 | LinusN | kurzhaarrocker: i wish you could have make it compile in the simulator... |
| 11:00 |
| 11:00:30 | | Join Quelsaruk [0] (~kvirc@85.48.43.61) |
| 11:00:33 | Quelsaruk | morning |
| 11:00:37 | LinusN | moo |
| 11:00:42 | Quelsaruk | :) |
| 11:05:19 | | Join DJ_Dooms_Day|AF [0] (~scottr@203.220.52.89) |
| 11:10:02 | | Part kurzhaarrocker |
| 11:10:51 | | Quit bzerk86 ("Leaving") |
| 11:13:14 | * | LinusN just committed the triggered recording patch |
| 11:24:01 | | Quit DJ_Dooms_Day (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 11:27:11 | | Nick kergoth is now known as kergoth`zzz (~kergoth@covenant.kergoth.com) |
| 11:30:20 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 11:48:55 | | Join DMJC [0] (~James@220-245-171-89.tpgi.com.au) |
| 11:48:55 | | Quit Byron (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 11:56:04 | | Part LinusN |
| 11:56:22 | | Join Lost-ash [0] (ashridah@220-253-123-107.VIC.netspace.net.au) |
| 11:57:49 | | Quit ashridah (Nick collision from services.) |
| 11:58:58 | | Nick Lost-ash is now known as ashridah (ashridah@220-253-123-107.VIC.netspace.net.au) |
| 12:00 |
| 12:01:00 | | Join Ka [0] (~tkirk@pcp0010733332pcs.howard01.md.comcast.net) |
| 12:01:18 | | Nick kergoth`zzz is now known as kergoth (~kergoth@covenant.kergoth.com) |
| 12:06:15 | amiconn | Argh, Linus is gone! :-/ |
| 12:12:44 | | Join Lost-ash [0] (ashridah@220.253.123.107) |
| 12:12:45 | | Quit ashridah (Connection reset by peer) |
| 12:13:46 | Lost-ash | ping Lost-ash |
| 12:23:43 | | Nick Lost-ash is now known as ashridah (ashridah@220.253.123.107) |
| 12:26:17 | | Join LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se) |
| 12:26:54 | LinusN | network maintenance... |
| 12:30:17 | | Join Aison [0] (~hans@zux166-181.adsl.green.ch) |
| 12:35:50 | | Join DJ_Dooms_Day [0] (~scottr@dialup-36.79.221.203.acc15-dryb-mel.comindico.com.au) |
| 12:36:26 | | Quit Quelsaruk ("KVIrc 3.2.0 'Marmalade'") |
| 12:39:44 | | Join preglow [0] (thomj@s183a.studby.ntnu.no) |
| 12:39:48 | | Join quelsaruk [0] (~kvirc@80.103.131.254) |
| 12:43:49 | amiconn | LinusN: The triggered recording patch broke the ondio fm build... |
| 12:44:17 | amiconn | ... and your fix doesn't work (it obviously can't), but instead breaks the advanced sound settings for ondio sp... |
| 12:44:21 | | Quit DJ_Dooms_Day|AF (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 12:44:31 | LinusN | that's really funny, because it works when i build locally |
| 12:44:49 | amiconn | The problem is not related to the mas types, but to the button handling |
| 12:44:56 | LinusN | i know |
| 12:45:07 | LinusN | my "oops" commit wasn't related to the build error |
| 12:45:27 | amiconn | It wasn't? |
| 12:46:02 | LinusN | no, it was because i accidentally added advanced peak meter recording settings to the SP |
| 12:46:05 | amiconn | The build obviously cannot work, because the button assignment is hardcoded, and the Ondio doesn't have PLAY nor F2 |
| 12:46:55 | LinusN | do you have any good ideas what buttons we could use? |
| 12:49:04 | amiconn | I did not yet try the triggered recording, so I don't know the details. But from looking at the code, I wonder why it defines its own menu function instead of using the existing one |
| 12:49:36 | amiconn | The USB handling is just plain wrong |
| 12:50:01 | LinusN | ah, yes |
| 12:51:26 | | Quit ashridah (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 12:52:25 | | Join hibou [0] (~a4810127@labb.contactor.se) |
| 12:55:00 | amiconn | Btw, the 'Oops' commit seems unnecessary to me. The code section in question is protected by #ifdef HAVE_RECORDING anyway, and the MAS3539 cannot record... |
| 12:55:08 | LinusN | true |
| 12:58:26 | amiconn | Hmm, I need to have a look at the triggered recording myself. Can only do that in the evening, and it's too bad I don't always have access to an Ondio FM |
| 12:59:04 | LinusN | hmmm, ondio has no play key... |
| 12:59:33 | LinusN | i guess the "cancel" function has to be disabled on the ondio then |
| 12:59:44 | amiconn | If at all possible, I would prefer it to use the standard rockbox menu system. That would ensure consistent operation with the other menus, and also most likely save some code size |
| 12:59:50 | LinusN | (pressing OFF to cancel the settings) |
| 12:59:58 | LinusN | amiconn: agreed |
| 13:00 |
| 13:08:01 | | Join ceebmoj [0] (~5189b144@labb.contactor.se) |
| 13:08:11 | ceebmoj | hi |
| 13:10:04 | | Quit Ka (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 13:10:34 | ceebmoj | I have been reading the Audio API stuff has any progres been made on it? |
| 13:10:42 | LinusN | not really |
| 13:11:51 | LinusN | i'm working on restructuring the audio code to prepare for the new code |
| 13:12:15 | ceebmoj | who is working on it? |
| 13:12:21 | | Join Ka [0] (~tkirk@pcp0010733332pcs.howard01.md.comcast.net) |
| 13:12:28 | ceebmoj | are thay about to talk to? |
| 13:14:10 | LinusN | i am working on it |
| 13:14:29 | LinusN | restructuring the code, that is |
| 13:16:20 | LinusN | but yes, we are all here, so if you have any questions, just shoot |
| 13:18:09 | ceebmoj | ok basicly the API are to be dinamicly loaded as required based on the trackes that are to be played |
| 13:18:40 | LinusN | the codecs, yes |
| 13:19:31 | ceebmoj | will ther be a limet in the number of codecs that can be loded or will the buffer be filled up with song dater and Codecs untill it is full to reduce disk activerty |
| 13:19:40 | ceebmoj | sory for the spelling by the way. |
| 13:20:03 | | Join Sucka [0] (~NNSCRIPT@host81-156-214-58.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) |
| 13:22:05 | LinusN | we have thought about a limit of two codecs |
| 13:23:04 | dwihno | how much ram would a typical codec utilize? |
| 13:23:22 | Bagder | the problem is internal ram |
| 13:23:43 | dwihno | it's too slow? |
| 13:23:48 | LinusN | a "typical" codec could use a few hundred K |
| 13:23:50 | Bagder | no, the codecs need to use internal ram |
| 13:23:54 | Bagder | for speed reasons |
| 13:24:02 | Bagder | and we only have 96K iram |
| 13:24:09 | LinusN | exactly |
| 13:24:20 | ceebmoj | ok so you would set a side part of the memory area to acomedate a and the apropreat codecs would be loded and the disk would be hit again if ther are other file timpes in the buffer befor it was empty? |
| 13:24:36 | LinusN | yes |
| 13:26:02 | ceebmoj | so why not load all the codecs in to the buffer along with the files to be played and then load the codec from the buffer in to the slot as and when it is required? that way you can have as many codecs as you like fom the disk to the buffer in one disk hit? |
| 13:26:20 | LinusN | ceebmoj: because the internal ram is so small |
| 13:26:36 | LinusN | and we don't want to relocate the codecs dynamically |
| 13:26:39 | preglow | well, yes, but we can copy data and code to iram just as its needed |
| 13:26:45 | LinusN | preglow: true |
| 13:26:51 | preglow | that's a small operation |
| 13:27:05 | LinusN | that's in fact exactly what they will do... |
| 13:27:24 | LinusN | the relocation issue is bigger |
| 13:27:46 | ceebmoj | relocation? |
| 13:28:26 | LinusN | relocation == translate all jump addresses in the code to make it run in different places in RAM |
| 13:28:41 | LinusN | maybe i misunderstood you |
| 13:28:55 | LinusN | i think i did |
| 13:28:56 | dwihno | you patch the program in-ram? |
| 13:28:57 | preglow | i thought we planned on just having two different statically linked version? |
| 13:29:02 | LinusN | preglow: yes |
| 13:29:32 | Bagder | but preloading them, we'd need to load both versions |
| 13:29:39 | LinusN | i think ceebmoj talks about loading the codec into the audio buffer, and then move it to the appropriate slot when it is to be executed |
| 13:29:39 | preglow | i think the codec loading will have to be split up somehow anyway, the metadata part of the codecs will probably have to be loaded at all times |
| 13:29:42 | Bagder | or perhaps not |
| 13:29:47 | LinusN | Bagder: yes |
| 13:30:02 | ceebmoj | why is this a problem can you not hold two slots open at a fixed address and the just coppy to thowes places that way ther is no dinamik linking problems |
| 13:30:04 | Bagder | LinusN: we could probably figure out in which slot it'll go into |
| 13:30:15 | ceebmoj | Bagder that is what I am trying to say |
| 13:30:18 | LinusN | ceebmoj: that's our intention |
| 13:30:22 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 13:30:24 | Bagder | but |
| 13:30:27 | Bagder | if you skip a sonf |
| 13:30:29 | Bagder | song |
| 13:30:31 | Bagder | it'll break |
| 13:30:36 | LinusN | yes |
| 13:31:19 | preglow | ought to teach you not to use too many codecs!! |
| 13:31:25 | LinusN | :-) |
| 13:31:27 | Bagder | hehe |
| 13:31:40 | ceebmoj | why would skiping a song caruse a problem? |
| 13:31:43 | Bagder | "too many codecs in use error, remove a few and try again" |
| 13:31:48 | Bagder | :-) |
| 13:32:04 | Bagder | ceebmoj: because then you'd use the other slot than what was first believed |
| 13:32:07 | dwihno | Reminds me of windows |
| 13:32:36 | preglow | probably should have a codec cache of selectable size |
| 13:32:39 | dwihno | How does the database browser thing work? It loads the entire DB instead of every dir entry? |
| 13:32:40 | Bagder | as we'd have two linked versions of all codecs |
| 13:32:41 | preglow | loading them all is out of the question |
| 13:33:19 | dwihno | Bagder: is it a big hassle to patch the calls during runtime? |
| 13:33:23 | preglow | we could of course also make the plugin format fully relocatable, and do the fixups right before it is to be used :) |
| 13:33:26 | LinusN | dwihno: yes |
| 13:34:10 | dwihno | I imagine players with insane amounts of memory |
| 13:34:31 | dwihno | Let's say 64 megs or such |
| 13:34:47 | preglow | i think 32 megs is pretty much, to be honest |
| 13:34:51 | LinusN | me too |
| 13:35:12 | dwihno | Next you guys will say that it should be enough for everyone ;) |
| 13:35:16 | preglow | haha |
| 13:35:18 | LinusN | :-) |
| 13:35:49 | dwihno | Hm |
| 13:35:54 | dwihno | How big will the pcm buffer be? |
| 13:36:10 | preglow | as big as we can have it |
| 13:36:13 | preglow | ahh |
| 13:36:14 | preglow | forget that |
| 13:36:16 | dwihno | I was thinking stupid thoughts... Such as keeping pcm data in the 32 meg buffer instead of the compressed ;) |
| 13:36:37 | LinusN | dwihno: go away |
| 13:36:44 | Bagder | hehe |
| 13:36:55 | | Part dwihno |
| 13:36:55 | ceebmoj | I sumed that when a file was to be played you would check the tipe and ues the codec that is requied that way when you skip a song you would just ues the codek that it requires this would stop skip problems that you talk about |
| 13:37:00 | | Join dwihno [0] (~dw@81.8.224.89) |
| 13:37:05 | dwihno | Nah, you won't get rid of me that easy ;) |
| 13:37:08 | Bagder | ceebmoj: yes |
| 13:37:17 | Bagder | ceebmoj: but we intend to have two "slots" for the codecs |
| 13:37:23 | Bagder | to allow two codecs simultaneously |
| 13:37:28 | Bagder | linked to fixed addresses |
| 13:37:37 | | Join ashridah [0] (ashridah@220-253-123-55.VIC.netspace.net.au) |
| 13:38:01 | * | preglow is contemplating a one slot version with more iram available for each codec |
| 13:38:21 | ceebmoj | so why not load as many codecs as you can in to the buffer from the disk in one disk hit? |
| 13:38:31 | Bagder | preglow: perhaps that's the viable solution |
| 13:38:35 | preglow | because they consume space? |
| 13:38:56 | Bagder | because you'd have to load both versions of all codecs as well |
| 13:39:03 | preglow | Bagder: i think it should be easily configurable, at least, only use i can think of for two slots are speaking menus and such |
| 13:39:03 | Bagder | assuming a two-slot approach |
| 13:39:05 | ceebmoj | but if you have many difrent file tipes say in a play list you will get better batry life this way |
| 13:39:08 | ashridah | perhaps allow the user to specify one or two 'common' codecs that should be loaded by default, and keep the rest as plugins |
| 13:39:22 | LinusN | in fact, a single slot, along with ceebmoj's idea could be the way to go |
| 13:39:25 | Bagder | ceebmoj: not necessarily |
| 13:39:47 | preglow | LinusN: then what if audio from two sources are to be mixed simultaneously? |
| 13:39:50 | Bagder | single slot will of course prevent cross-fading between two codecs |
| 13:39:53 | | Join R3nTiL [0] (~zorroz@217.30.249.181) |
| 13:39:58 | LinusN | not necessarily |
| 13:40:04 | ceebmoj | badger why do you feal you would get wors battry life? |
| 13:40:10 | preglow | well, no, but depends heavily on efficient codecs |
| 13:40:15 | Bagder | true |
| 13:40:19 | Bagder | given enough buffer... |
| 13:40:24 | dwihno | have you guys checked how often the iriver spins a disk during regular mp3 playback? |
| 13:40:32 | preglow | dwihno: too often |
| 13:40:35 | dwihno | der Disk spinnst wie ein kartoffel! |
| 13:40:40 | dwihno | preglow: every track? |
| 13:40:42 | Bagder | the iriver is not a good example |
| 13:40:47 | LinusN | i think crossfading should be implemented purely on a pcm level |
| 13:40:53 | preglow | dwihno: no, but still too often, i dont think the iriver firmware ever loads incomplete tracks |
| 13:40:54 | Bagder | it reads the id3 data on every track |
| 13:40:56 | ceebmoj | my iriver spins up about twice for an album |
| 13:41:01 | Bagder | or something |
| 13:41:26 | preglow | ceebmoj: hell, do you use 64kbps files or somethig? |
| 13:41:27 | Bagder | hm, perhaps they dig it out from ram come to think of it |
| 13:41:37 | preglow | Bagder: it doesn't spin up for each song, at least |
| 13:41:42 | Bagder | true |
| 13:41:48 | Bagder | but it is dead slow on showing id3 info |
| 13:41:55 | preglow | that it is |
| 13:41:55 | Bagder | for a new song |
| 13:42:44 | ceebmoj | no ogg 145 I think |
| 13:42:54 | dwihno | I thought about the JoS players using rockbox |
| 13:42:56 | dwihno | that would be swell |
| 13:43:02 | dwihno | but somebody said something about the hardware, no? |
| 13:43:09 | ceebmoj | Id3 tags take 2 to 5 seconds to sho up |
| 13:43:29 | LinusN | dwihno: i have no idea what hardware is in the Jens Of Korea players |
| 13:43:38 | dwihno | :-) |
| 13:43:39 | preglow | jhahah |
| 13:44:03 | dwihno | Didn't they at least develop the sw? |
| 13:44:25 | | Join asdsd [0] (asdsd@h-67-100-33-31.miatflad.dynamic.covad.net) |
| 13:44:42 | Bagder | I don't think so |
| 13:44:54 | dwihno | shame on them! |
| 13:45:03 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK asdsd |
| 13:45:03 | asdsd | ,15good morning guys |
| 13:45:08 | preglow | but anyway |
| 13:45:19 | preglow | a one slot system will surely break speaking menus? |
| 13:45:26 | asdsd | ,15oh hey preglow |
| 13:45:31 | *** | Alert Mode level 1 |
| 13:45:31 | asdsd | ,15hows it coming on the iriver? |
| 13:45:33 | preglow | +b, anyone? |
| 13:45:38 | LinusN | not if they are pcm |
| 13:45:39 | preglow | i can't stand the highlight |
| 13:45:55 | *** | Alert Mode level 2 |
| 13:45:55 | asdsd | ,15ill get rid of it |
| 13:45:58 | preglow | asdsd: you are aware your text is unreadable? |
| 13:46:09 | preglow | LinusN: ahh, no, but they are usually mp3, no? |
| 13:46:10 | Ctcp | Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
| 13:46:10 | * | Bagder ignores such IRC crap |
| 13:46:11 | LinusN | preglow: i can read his text |
| 13:46:21 | preglow | it's cyan on a gray background here |
| 13:46:24 | preglow | a very lovely combination |
| 13:46:32 | Bagder | hehe |
| 13:46:39 | LinusN | then change your background :-) |
| 13:46:41 | preglow | haha |
| 13:46:43 | preglow | never! |
| 13:46:49 | LinusN | or disable mirc colors |
| 13:46:59 | preglow | i prefer a black background for everything |
| 13:47:06 | preglow | i'll look into how to fix that in irssi |
| 13:47:09 | *** | Alert Mode level 3 |
| 13:47:09 | asdsd | ,00now? |
| 13:47:10 | preglow | not a bad idea anyhow |
| 13:47:14 | LinusN | which is the sensible thing to do in all occasions |
| 13:47:17 | preglow | light cyan on white! |
| 13:47:21 | LinusN | mirc is evil |
| 13:47:31 | quelsaruk | asdsd: why not using plain text without colour schemes?? |
| 13:47:32 | quelsaruk | :D |
| 13:47:32 | *** | Alert Mode level 4 |
| 13:47:32 | asdsd | ,00beter? |
| 13:47:42 | *** | Alert Mode level 5 |
| 13:47:42 | asdsd | ,00i don't know how to set it to use a default font |
| 13:47:42 | quelsaruk | i use kvirc, better than mirc :) |
| 13:47:48 | *** | Alert Mode level 6 |
| 13:47:48 | asdsd | ,00im using Trillian 3 pro on ir |
| 13:47:49 | preglow | haha, ok |
| 13:47:50 | *** | Alert Mode level 7 |
| 13:47:50 | asdsd | ,00irc* |
| 13:48:27 | *** | Alert Mode level 8 |
| 13:48:27 | asdsd | ,00trill 3 used to let me choose the ofnt based on platform |
| 13:48:30 | *** | Alert Mode level 9 |
| 13:48:30 | asdsd | ,00trill 2* |
| 13:48:51 | *** | Alert Mode level 10 |
| 13:48:51 | asdsd | ,00lol aynhow i just wantd to know hows it coming on the iriver |
| 13:49:07 | LinusN | steadily forward... |
| 13:49:23 | *** | Alert Mode level 11 |
| 13:49:23 | asdsd | ,00nice |
| 13:49:26 | Lynx_ | asdsd: the cyan is still annoying... |
| 13:49:35 | *** | Alert Mode level 12 |
| 13:49:35 | asdsd | ,00im checking the homepage and it mentions u got rolo working |
| 13:49:47 | LinusN | yes |
| 13:50:28 | *** | Alert Mode level 13 |
| 13:50:28 | asdsd | ,00so we'll be able to boot into the original or rockbox firmware depending how what mood were in? |
| 13:50:41 | Bagder | that we already do |
| 13:50:55 | *** | Alert Mode level 14 |
| 13:50:55 | asdsd | ,00so then what does rolo provide? |
| 13:51:05 | *** | Alert Mode level 15 |
| 13:51:05 | asdsd | ,00i just read this: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RoLo thats all |
| 13:51:10 | | Quit quelsaruk ("KVIrc 3.2.0 'Marmalade'") |
| 13:51:10 | Bagder | rolo loading and starting another rockbox from disk |
| 13:51:21 | LinusN | instead of rebooting |
| 13:51:22 | Bagder | +is |
| 13:51:51 | Bagder | reboot only loads a fixed file name, rolo can load whatever using the right extension |
| 13:53:13 | *** | Alert Mode level 16 |
| 13:53:13 | asdsd | ,00oh i see |
| 13:53:15 | *** | Alert Mode level 17 |
| 13:53:15 | asdsd | ,00sweet |
| 13:53:37 | LinusN | very handy for developers |
| 13:54:21 | *** | Alert Mode level 18 |
| 13:54:21 | asdsd | ,00why r u guys adopting my color? |
| 13:54:30 | LinusN | i'm not |
| 13:54:40 | Bagder | adopting? |
| 13:55:01 | *** | Alert Mode level 19 |
| 13:55:01 | asdsd | ,00ur all using my color now wtf |
| 13:55:06 | Bagder | no we don't |
| 13:55:10 | Bagder | your client is crap |
| 13:55:11 | *** | Alert Mode level 20 |
| 13:55:11 | asdsd | ,00argh trillian is annoying |
| 13:55:32 | preglow | i second that |
| 13:55:40 | *** | Alert Mode level 21 |
| 13:55:40 | asdsd | ,00*goes back to mirc* |
| 13:55:51 | Mode | "#rockbox +o LinusN " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 13:55:57 | DMJC | use xchat-2 |
| 13:55:57 | Bagder | mirc *invented* those colors |
| 13:56:07 | Bagder | thus it is the evil itself |
| 13:56:25 | *** | Alert Mode level 22 |
| 13:56:25 | asdsd | ,00ive been using this shade of this font color for nearly 5 years now |
| 13:56:27 | *** | Alert Mode level 23 |
| 13:56:27 | asdsd | ,00ill never change it |
| 13:56:50 | LinusN | i have set my client to ignore those silly mirc colors |
| 13:56:59 | Bagder | me too |
| 13:57:15 | *** | Alert Mode level 24 |
| 13:57:15 | asdsd | ,00great |
| 13:57:18 | preglow | woot |
| 13:57:21 | preglow | i can read you |
| 13:57:21 | | Part asdsd |
| 13:57:28 | | Join dadasdsad [0] (asdsd@h-67-100-33-31.miatflad.dynamic.covad.net) |
| 13:57:30 | dadasdsad | there |
| 13:57:34 | dadasdsad | good old mirc |
| 13:57:42 | preglow | s/good// |
| 13:57:49 | dadasdsad | does iriver has a greyscale yet? |
| 13:57:51 | preglow | sure beats trillian, apparently, heh |
| 13:58:12 | preglow | well, no, not in cvs |
| 13:58:14 | LinusN | no greyscale yet |
| 13:58:17 | preglow | but there is an incomplete patch around |
| 13:59:22 | dadasdsad | oh man if it takes that long to make a greyscale pallete itll prolly take longe rto make a color one |
| 13:59:42 | Bagder | development do requires someone to do the work |
| 13:59:45 | Bagder | oddly enough |
| 13:59:48 | preglow | it's more the fact that rockbox never was intended for anything but black and white |
| 13:59:56 | preglow | this time around we'll probably be more prepared for colour |
| 13:59:57 | LinusN | dadasdsad: you think the palette is the problem? |
| 14:00 |
| 14:00:12 | dadasdsad | yeah? |
| 14:00:18 | preglow | it's not :) |
| 14:00:25 | dadasdsad | besides im sure that colors isn't a real priority right now right? |
| 14:00:25 | LinusN | you obviously aren't a programmer |
| 14:00:59 | dadasdsad | im a computer enthusiast |
| 14:01:46 | | Join webguest27 [0] (~5386b0f9@labb.contactor.se) |
| 14:02:08 | | Quit webguest27 (Client Quit) |
| 14:03:06 | dadasdsad | well im sure u guys ar emore interested in making the sound work rather than the display right |
| 14:04:00 | LinusN | damn right |
| 14:04:03 | Bagder | indeedo |
| 14:04:26 | | Quit lostlogic ("Going to the moon") |
| 14:06:28 | preglow | but anywho |
| 14:06:39 | preglow | if cross fading is to be done with very large buffers and prebuffering |
| 14:06:50 | preglow | where do we get the buffers from? just reserve them for this purpose at all times? |
| 14:07:03 | preglow | a crossfade can be pretty long |
| 14:07:06 | LinusN | perhaps a "crossfade" setting? |
| 14:07:16 | *** | Alert Mode OFF |
| 14:08:12 | preglow | but yes, it sure means we can utilize the iram better |
| 14:08:20 | preglow | which is always good |
| 14:08:32 | LinusN | there's still the voice issue... |
| 14:08:36 | preglow | but it also requires the codecs are all a certain percentage above realtime |
| 14:08:48 | preglow | above 200 |
| 14:09:46 | LinusN | not with pcm buffer crossfade |
| 14:10:09 | LinusN | or you mean the voice? |
| 14:10:13 | preglow | no, i mean crossfade |
| 14:10:31 | LinusN | if we crossfade in the pcm buffer, we only run one codec at a time |
| 14:10:45 | preglow | the same cpu time that usually had to accomodate one codec, now has to accomodate two, not at once, but the same resources nonetheless |
| 14:11:42 | LinusN | well, we still need very fast codecs, or the batteries won't last very long |
| 14:11:48 | preglow | yes, indeed |
| 14:11:55 | preglow | they should be well above 200% |
| 14:12:01 | preglow | so it's not really a problem, no |
| 14:12:03 | LinusN | absolutely |
| 14:12:48 | ceebmoj | are the codecs runing at 200% or is ther the scope to get them to run that fast? |
| 14:12:58 | LinusN | at least 200% |
| 14:13:04 | LinusN | but not all codecs are there yet |
| 14:13:05 | preglow | i've got one at about 200% in some cases |
| 14:13:27 | preglow | flac probably is there as well, can't remember if i've tried it without disk writing |
| 14:13:33 | preglow | but i need to go now |
| 14:13:35 | preglow | later, all |
| 14:13:39 | LinusN | cu |
| 14:13:41 | | Quit preglow ("leaving") |
| 14:14:17 | LinusN | i think sacrificing memory for crossfading isn't such a bad tradeoff |
| 14:15:20 | Bagder | sounds fair |
| 14:15:21 | LinusN | we could easily spare a meg or two |
| 14:15:48 | LinusN | 5 secs of 44100 pcm audio is roughly 800k |
| 14:16:05 | Bagder | 5 secs cross-fade should be enough for everyone |
| 14:16:10 | Bagder | ;-) |
| 14:16:15 | | Quit R3nTiL () |
| 14:16:16 | Schnueff | heh |
| 14:16:17 | LinusN | reboot time... |
| 14:16:19 | | Part LinusN |
| 14:20:12 | ashridah | did anyone ever work out what the bottleneck was with vorbis? |
| 14:20:18 | | Join Patr3ck_ [0] (~patr3ck@pD9ECF24A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:21:46 | | Join jakepdev [0] (~jakepdev@pool-68-163-51-71.phil.east.verizon.net) |
| 14:26:25 | | Join bytemission [0] (~d4ca6bde@labb.contactor.se) |
| 14:27:56 | | Join LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se) |
| 14:28:46 | | Quit bytemission (Client Quit) |
| 14:29:53 | | Quit ceebmoj ("CGI:IRC") |
| 14:32:07 | | Join webguest11 [0] (~d4ca6bde@labb.contactor.se) |
| 14:32:53 | | Quit webguest11 (Client Quit) |
| 14:34:41 | | Quit Patr3ck (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 14:34:48 | | Join Lost-ash [0] (ashridah@220-253-121-134.VIC.netspace.net.au) |
| 14:35:32 | | Quit ashridah (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 14:43:13 | | Join bytemission [0] (~bytemissi@212.202.107.222) |
| 14:43:26 | bytemission | hi |
| 14:44:13 | bytemission | anybody around? |
| 14:44:26 | Bagder | yeps |
| 14:44:40 | bytemission | ah, cool. sorry, but i'm new to irc |
| 14:45:21 | bytemission | i got a question about the iriver ihp-120 hardware. perhaps somebody can help me. |
| 14:45:26 | LinusN | shoot |
| 14:45:39 | bytemission | i need to know some of the caps on the mainboard |
| 14:45:44 | bytemission | its C90 |
| 14:45:48 | bytemission | and C99 |
| 14:46:10 | bytemission | does anybody know which capacity and current they have |
| 14:46:32 | bytemission | would be so nice. i posted in the rockbox-forum this question 2 days ago |
| 14:46:44 | bytemission | but got as answer that i should post it here ;) |
| 14:47:09 | LinusN | hang on |
| 14:47:30 | bytemission | oki |
| 14:49:26 | bytemission | if more information is required i can post it. just ask |
| 14:50:09 | | Join MoosCamaro [0] (MoosCamaro@m214.net81-66-158.noos.fr) |
| 14:50:30 | MoosCamaro | hey all |
| 14:50:40 | | Join lolo-laptop [0] (~lostlogic@68.251.84.226) |
| 14:50:48 | bytemission | hi |
| 14:51:25 | LinusN | bytemission: i'm having trouble measuring the capacitance with my multimeter |
| 14:51:48 | bytemission | hm, shit |
| 14:52:22 | bytemission | i would measure them myself, but i got no multimeter for caps measuring |
| 14:52:36 | bytemission | what kind of trouble? |
| 14:53:17 | LinusN | mu multimeter just says 0.00 :-) |
| 14:54:08 | bytemission | hm. not nice ;) |
| 14:54:22 | LinusN | they are propably pretty big |
| 14:54:53 | bytemission | what is the biggest you can measure? |
| 14:55:43 | LinusN | not sure |
| 14:56:19 | LinusN | did you blow U28 too? |
| 14:56:29 | bytemission | i think not |
| 14:56:41 | LinusN | what did you do? |
| 14:56:41 | bytemission | it looks pretty nice, but i haven't checked |
| 14:57:11 | bytemission | c90 anmd c99 are visibly damaged |
| 14:57:27 | bytemission | i didn't checked anything else. |
| 14:57:52 | bytemission | i think i will have a lot to do ;9 |
| 14:58:08 | bytemission | perhaps this evening i will have more information |
| 14:58:53 | bytemission | the guy, i bought the unit from, told me that they used a wrong powersupply for charging. |
| 14:59:04 | bytemission | from this time the unit was out of order |
| 15:00 |
| 15:00:03 | LinusN | a fairly common fault |
| 15:00:55 | bytemission | yes, so to say |
| 15:01:07 | LinusN | lots of people fry their irivers that way |
| 15:01:12 | bytemission | how can i test U28? |
| 15:01:41 | LinusN | measure the voltage on pin 3 |
| 15:01:53 | LinusN | it should be 1.8V |
| 15:01:53 | bytemission | they should built in a fuse |
| 15:02:17 | LinusN | in retrospect, yes they should |
| 15:02:32 | LinusN | but people really should take more care |
| 15:02:47 | bytemission | hm. if i connect the dameged unit to the right power supply i will have 1.8V on this pin? is this right? |
| 15:03:00 | LinusN | no |
| 15:03:23 | LinusN | U28 generates the 1.8V to the CPU, from the battery power |
| 15:03:24 | bytemission | how to test this? |
| 15:03:38 | LinusN | try to turn it on, and measure the voltage |
| 15:03:40 | bytemission | okay, i have to connect a working battery... |
| 15:04:03 | bytemission | but if i would turn it on it does nothing, usually |
| 15:04:21 | bytemission | i will test this later |
| 15:04:31 | LinusN | i think your U28 is broken, but it might not be the only thing |
| 15:05:11 | bytemission | i know. but perhaps i have luck and only the U28 + C90 + C99 are damaged. |
| 15:05:20 | LinusN | is the green led on when you connect the charger? |
| 15:05:30 | bytemission | no. the unit makes nothing. |
| 15:05:38 | LinusN | U28 can be ordered from digikey btw |
| 15:05:59 | LinusN | nothing? then maybe U15 is dead too |
| 15:06:03 | bytemission | no light, no sounds (from spinning hardrive), just nothing |
| 15:06:19 | LinusN | U15 is the charging circuit |
| 15:06:24 | bytemission | uh, it ssems to me that i speak to an expert... |
| 15:06:45 | LinusN | well, i drew the schematics on the rockbox site |
| 15:06:52 | Lost-ash | bytemission: LinusN probably knows the hardware on a level approaching iriver's engineers |
| 15:06:55 | bytemission | ah, okay... |
| 15:07:03 | LinusN | and i have spent some time researching the power circuitry |
| 15:07:04 | Lost-ash | if not exceeding, in some cases :) |
| 15:07:25 | LinusN | i should update the schematics... |
| 15:07:49 | | Nick Lost-ash is now known as ashridah (ashridah@220-253-121-134.VIC.netspace.net.au) |
| 15:11:00 | bytemission | what kind of chip are U28 and U15? can't read anything on them... |
| 15:13:06 | LinusN | U15 is a texas Instruments TPS61020 |
| 15:13:23 | LinusN | U28 is a Linear LTC3405 |
| 15:13:41 | LinusN | LTC3405ES6 to be exact |
| 15:14:33 | bytemission | thank you so much. it's so cool that i found this irc |
| 15:14:54 | LinusN | you're welcome |
| 15:16:57 | bytemission | but i think i will have much more questions these days ... |
| 15:17:02 | LinusN | oops, i was wrong about U15 |
| 15:17:47 | bytemission | okay. |
| 15:18:22 | LinusN | it's a texas Instruments BQ24022 |
| 15:19:14 | bytemission | thanks |
| 15:19:19 | LinusN | you're welcome |
| 15:19:53 | LinusN | please return and report your progress |
| 15:21:14 | bytemission | That's understood. |
| 15:21:37 | | Join webguest56 [0] (~5189b144@labb.contactor.se) |
| 15:27:21 | | Quit dadasdsad ("—I-n-v-i-s-i-o-n— 2.0 Build 3515") |
| 15:27:36 | | Join rasher [0] (~3e4f4094@labb.contactor.se) |
| 15:29:35 | | Quit webguest56 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 15:30:25 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 15:35:43 | | Quit rasher ("CGI:IRC") |
| 15:35:55 | | Join rasher [0] (~3e4f4094@labb.contactor.se) |
| 15:39:33 | rasher | merf |
| 15:42:06 | | Join F1^Aison [0] (~hans@zux166-181.adsl.green.ch) |
| 15:46:55 | LinusN | gotta go |
| 15:46:57 | * | ashridah looks through the logs. |
| 15:46:58 | LinusN | cu guys |
| 15:47:02 | | Join Aison` [0] (~hans@zux166-181.adsl.green.ch) |
| 15:47:02 | ashridah | hm. no-one answered about vorbis |
| 15:47:08 | ashridah | did anyone work out the bottleneck, or is it still dead slow? |
| 15:47:32 | LinusN | nobody has worked on it |
| 15:48:04 | ashridah | right |
| 15:48:53 | | Quit Aison (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 15:48:59 | | Part LinusN |
| 15:51:26 | | Quit F1^Aison (Operation timed out) |
| 15:58:04 | | Join GCarrier [0] (~gcarrier@tofu.eu.org) |
| 16:00 |
| 16:00:52 | | Quit ashridah ("Leaving") |
| 16:03:28 | | Part MoosCamaro |
| 16:07:44 | | Join Aison [0] (~hans@zux166-181.adsl.green.ch) |
| 16:14:20 | | Quit Aison` (Operation timed out) |
| 16:18:22 | | Join t0mas [0] (~Tomas@ip503c08d1.speed.planet.nl) |
| 16:21:14 | t0mas | hi |
| 16:22:19 | thegeek | hmm, anyone know a good place to order an iskin and that battery for the iriver ? |
| 16:30:10 | | Quit Zagor ("Client exiting") |
| 16:47:04 | | Quit GCarrier ("Leaving") |
| 17:00 |
| 17:01:20 | | Join XShocK [0] (~cddef002@labb.contactor.se) |
| 17:11:08 | t0mas | hi XShocK |
| 17:15:49 | XShocK | hi |
| 17:30:27 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 17:32:23 | | Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 17:32:33 | | Join einhirn [0] (Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de) |
| 17:33:23 | XShocK | gotta go |
| 17:33:29 | | Quit XShocK ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 17:36:56 | | Join matsl [0] (~matsl@1-1-4-2a.mal.sth.bostream.se) |
| 17:38:48 | | Part bytemission |
| 17:47:12 | | Quit Patr3ck_ () |
| 17:52:49 | | Quit Sucka ("a bird in the bush is worth two in your house") |
| 17:59:19 | | Join Sucka [0] (~NNSCRIPT@host81-156-214-58.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:00 |
| 18:03:48 | | Join mecraw [0] (fwuser@69.2.235.2) |
| 18:22:02 | | Join XShocK [0] (~cddef002@labb.contactor.se) |
| 18:22:41 | | Quit DangerousDan ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 18:29:11 | | Quit XShocK ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 18:29:12 | | Join Stryke` [0] (~Chairman8@resnet-241-86.resnet.umbc.edu) |
| 18:32:47 | | Join _Lucretia_ [0] (~munkee@abyss2.demon.co.uk) |
| 18:40:27 | | Quit Ka (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 18:40:48 | | Join Ka [0] (~tkirk@pcp0010733332pcs.howard01.md.comcast.net) |
| 18:45:44 | | Quit rasher ("CGI:IRC") |
| 18:50:53 | | Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection) |
| 18:52:34 | | Quit Ka (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) |
| 19:00 |
| 19:05:48 | amiconn | frlm |
| 19:30:31 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 19:35:14 | | Join Tang [0] (~chatzilla@ARennes-252-1-55-56.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:35:20 | Tang | Hello |
| 19:40:29 | Tang | (ll come back bye) |
| 19:42:15 | | Quit bobTHC ("Smoke Weed Every Day !") |
| 19:49:07 | | Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 19:54:17 | | Join courtc [0] (~court@adsl-158-38-35.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 19:58:19 | amiconn | Bagder: r u there? |
| 20:00 |
| 20:27:13 | | Join T0mas_ [0] (~Tomas@ip503c08d1.speed.planet.nl) |
| 20:33:09 | Tang | hi Tomas |
| 20:33:11 | Tang | :) |
| 20:34:17 | | Join mirak [0] (~mirak@AAubervilliers-152-1-36-4.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 20:34:19 | mirak | hi |
| 20:35:11 | mirak | do you know if rockbox could be able to get more output volume from the line out or headphones output ? |
| 20:35:39 | mirak | ro maybe it could be possible to hack the iriver firmware |
| 20:35:40 | mirak | ? |
| 20:35:49 | | Quit t0mas (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 20:38:42 | Tang | Hi mirak |
| 20:39:02 | Tang | i guess there is sometimes software volume level limitation |
| 20:39:12 | Tang | (specially to agree European law) |
| 20:39:27 | Tang | but the output level is also linked with hardware |
| 20:40:22 | Tang | So i doubt they will have a big possibility to increase the output level |
| 20:40:36 | Tang | especialy with actual US fw |
| 20:41:04 | Tang | anyway there is still no AudioAPI so stay tuned |
| 20:41:05 | Tang | ;) |
| 20:42:30 | mirak | true |
| 20:42:33 | mirak | hum |
| 20:42:36 | mirak | but |
| 20:42:46 | mirak | when I record something on line in |
| 20:43:11 | mirak | if the volume is high, then I can get a sound much higher than I could get from a mp3 |
| 20:43:27 | mirak | this leave me thinking that this can produce louder sound |
| 20:43:34 | mirak | without distortion |
| 20:43:50 | mirak | I agree that with the provided headphones |
| 20:43:56 | mirak | louder is useless |
| 20:44:03 | mirak | but certainly not for line out |
| 20:44:14 | mirak | or other headphones |
| 20:44:29 | mirak | but I don't know why I tell that, since you already read it on the forum |
| 20:44:45 | mirak | :D |
| 20:46:27 | | Join XShocK [0] (~XShocK@pcp09492659pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net) |
| 20:46:44 | | Quit Tang ("Chatzilla 0.9.66 [Mozilla rv:1.7.5/20041108]") |
| 20:47:15 | | Quit StrathAFK ("Client closed") |
| 21:00 |
| 21:04:11 | | Quit Schnueff ("leaving") |
| 21:22:25 | | Join Strath [0] (~mike@dgvlwinas01pool0-a202.wi.tds.net) |
| 21:24:15 | | Join preglow [0] (thomj@s183a.studby.ntnu.no) |
| 21:30:35 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 21:31:38 | | Join tvelocity [0] (~tony@ipa98.6.tellas.gr) |
| 21:41:11 | | Join mecraw_ [0] (fwuser@69.2.235.2) |
| 21:41:15 | | Quit mecraw (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 21:56:06 | | Quit preglow ("ff") |
| 22:00 |
| 22:03:04 | | Join amiconn_ [0] (~jens@pD9E7F857.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:07:23 | | Join keith [0] (~keith@cpe-066-057-071-078.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 22:07:27 | | Join preglow [0] (thomj@s183a.studby.ntnu.no) |
| 22:07:58 | | Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.) |
| 22:07:59 | | Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (~jens@pD9E7F857.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:08:48 | | Quit lolo-laptop ("Client exiting") |
| 22:16:21 | | Quit preglow ("leaving") |
| 22:16:39 | | Join preglow [0] (thomj@s183a.studby.ntnu.no) |
| 22:18:41 | | Quit keith ("leaving") |
| 22:20:43 | | Join Ka [0] (~tkirk@pcp0010733332pcs.howard01.md.comcast.net) |
| 22:23:09 | preglow | still no h140, amiconn? :] |
| 22:23:20 | amiconn | No :( |
| 22:24:16 | XShocK | what is Pseudo SRAM? :) |
| 22:24:33 | XShocK | hi, i thought nobody was here. :) |
| 22:24:39 | preglow | pseudo sram? |
| 22:25:07 | XShocK | yes |
| 22:25:14 | preglow | ahhh |
| 22:25:16 | preglow | like that |
| 22:25:25 | preglow | it's sdram with no visible refresh circuitry, i think |
| 22:25:40 | amiconn | preglow: yup. http://www.electronicstalk.com/news/tos/tos164.html |
| 22:25:57 | preglow | i rock |
| 22:26:13 | preglow | i remember we had a look at a ton of ram types in some digital electronics class |
| 22:26:45 | XShocK | thanks. :) |
| 22:29:10 | amiconn | Grrrrrrr!!!! |
| 22:29:33 | amiconn | I *love* it when patches break good old functionality |
| 22:29:33 | preglow | tony the tiger suddenly appears |
| 22:32:29 | XShocK | on a hand-made circuit what are real maximum possible frequencies i can use and do not worry about noise and other things? |
| 22:32:54 | XShocK | i understand it greatly depends on how that circuit is done, but... |
| 22:32:56 | | Quit tvelocity (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 22:33:06 | preglow | a load of factors |
| 22:33:14 | preglow | depends on the traces, the components you use, etc |
| 22:33:24 | XShocK | yes.. i understand. |
| 22:33:51 | preglow | it's a pretty complicated subject, you need a lot of experience to make circuit boards that are tolerant to stuff like that |
| 22:33:56 | preglow | what frequency range were you thinking of? |
| 22:34:26 | XShocK | 40-60-80.. somewhere there |
| 22:34:35 | XShocK | better closer to 80. |
| 22:35:09 | XShocK | but i have no idea if i even have a chance to achieve it |
| 22:35:55 | preglow | what, 80mhz? |
| 22:35:55 | XShocK | will use smd components |
| 22:36:01 | XShocK | yes. :) |
| 22:36:10 | preglow | what're you making? |
| 22:36:44 | XShocK | digital oscillograph |
| 22:36:55 | XShocK | oops.. oscilloscope i think is a right term |
| 22:37:00 | preglow | ouch... |
| 22:37:07 | preglow | that's probably quite a lot of work, you know |
| 22:37:37 | XShocK | i am not making it today... just researching. |
| 22:38:16 | preglow | but 80mhz is the bandwidth you want? |
| 22:38:29 | preglow | if so, the internal logic will have to run at a higher frequency than 80mhz for sure |
| 22:38:39 | XShocK | with my today's knowledge my maximum is some not connections, lpt port and coms and PICs |
| 22:39:00 | XShocK | yes. 80mhz for ADC. |
| 22:39:30 | XShocK | so that reasonably 10-20 mhz signals could be measured |
| 22:39:34 | preglow | heh |
| 22:39:40 | preglow | i would just have bought a digital scope :P |
| 22:39:51 | preglow | making a scope sounds like a ton of work |
| 22:40:15 | XShocK | :) |
| 22:41:58 | preglow | i'm not that good with complicated electronics myself, so i may be exagerating |
| 22:42:12 | | Join tvelocity [0] (~tony@ipa98.6.tellas.gr) |
| 22:45:42 | XShocK | but with home equipment, and home made two side textolite(how is it spelled?) and best traces possible with home equipment, what are normal frequencies? |
| 22:46:31 | preglow | textolite? |
| 22:46:35 | preglow | and no, i have absolutely no idea |
| 22:46:59 | preglow | you can probably get very high, your skills with the board layout is a much greater factor than what facilities you have |
| 22:47:04 | preglow | to a certain extent, of course |
| 22:47:06 | XShocK | that material the dielectric sheet is made of. :) |
| 22:47:28 | preglow | at higher frequencies, stuff like trace length start to matter |
| 22:49:05 | XShocK | ok. at least i can hope. :) |
| 22:49:15 | XShocK | thank you |
| 22:52:12 | | Join lostlogic [0] (~lostlogic@node-4024215a.mdw.onnet.us.uu.net) |
| 22:53:27 | XShocK | i think it is spelled "textolite" |
| 22:56:42 | | Quit tvelocity (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 22:57:47 | | Quit Stryke` ("Friends don't let friends listen to Anti-Flag") |
| 22:58:23 | mirak | do you think we could get more output volume with rock box on the H300 ? |
| 22:58:59 | Bagder | wouldn't surprise me |
| 22:59:12 | * | amiconn spots Bagder |
| 22:59:22 | Bagder | uh-oh |
| 22:59:24 | Bagder | :-) |
| 22:59:34 | amiconn | I wanted to ask you something... meanwhile simply did it :) |
| 22:59:49 | amiconn | I hope using C99 syntax is ok... |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:16 | amiconn | ...namely 'designated initializers' |
| 23:00:31 | Bagder | those are one of the best C99 features imo |
| 23:00:54 | amiconn | I used them for const-policing triggered recording |
| 23:01:03 | preglow | mirak: you can't get more output volume than the hardware supports |
| 23:01:22 | preglow | mirak: that is, you can, but then you'd have to do nasty stuff like hard limiting |
| 23:01:39 | Bagder | preglow: Rockbox on Archos is a lot louder than the original firmware |
| 23:01:44 | preglow | Bagder: how come? |
| 23:01:56 | Bagder | probably because they limit it |
| 23:02:25 | | Quit Rick (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:02:27 | Bagder | and thus its not impossible that iriver does the same |
| 23:02:54 | Bagder | but I guess the guys who've played with the sound so far could tell for sure |
| 23:03:55 | amiconn | (1) I wonder why they would artificially limit the volume (2) Anyway, I don't care much either. Even stock archos firmware is louder than I need |
| 23:04:06 | preglow | apart from eu regulations, i can't imagine why |
| 23:04:11 | | Join Rick [0] (rick@wbar25.lax1-4.28.143.213.lax1.dsl-verizon.net) |
| 23:04:32 | XShocK | i never really compared the power, but it seems iriver uses most of its powers in original. |
| 23:04:38 | preglow | the output volume is just fine on the h1x0, as long as the music has decent levels |
| 23:04:58 | Bagder | I find the h1x0 volume output a lot lower than my Archos |
| 23:05:02 | preglow | i guess i could make a auto-gainer once the audio system is in place |
| 23:05:08 | Bagder | my archos can blow my ears out |
| 23:05:13 | Bagder | my iriver can't |
| 23:05:22 | preglow | then you don't listen to the right music :) |
| 23:05:31 | Bagder | Heh |
| 23:05:38 | Bagder | Hocico |
| 23:05:39 | preglow | i have successfully made my ears ring for hours on end |
| 23:05:41 | amiconn | Bagder: Is it really that much qieter? |
| 23:05:56 | Bagder | amiconn: the iriver/archos difference is indeed noticable |
| 23:06:04 | Bagder | I've run my iriver on max serveral times |
| 23:06:13 | Bagder | never been close to that on archos |
| 23:06:18 | amiconn | With rockbox on archos recorder, I use volume = 50..70 for earphones |
| 23:06:43 | Bagder | I'm usually on 80 on archos |
| 23:07:01 | preglow | but yes |
| 23:07:05 | preglow | h1x0 has decent output |
| 23:07:19 | preglow | it's not ultra high, but that's just fine by me, my ears are more than damaged enough as it is |
| 23:07:29 | amiconn | Player is even lower, because of the different scale |
| 23:07:34 | mirak | preglow: of course there migh be hardware limitations, however I feel that the software put little output gain on the sound decoding |
| 23:07:55 | mirak | for exemple when you record with line in |
| 23:08:02 | XShocK | i nevger even put it into max.. 20 is extra loud for me in iriver. :) |
| 23:08:06 | mirak | you can obtain a louder volume |
| 23:08:11 | mirak | really louder |
| 23:08:16 | mirak | without distortion |
| 23:08:59 | mirak | however most of the time on amplificators, you can hear distortion when you push the volume to the limits |
| 23:09:07 | mirak | this really is not the case on the H300 |
| 23:10:34 | preglow | that's because it doesn't do software amplification |
| 23:10:45 | preglow | ahh |
| 23:10:55 | preglow | you means speakers/headphones distorting? |
| 23:11:12 | preglow | no, it most certainly isn't that loud |
| 23:11:33 | preglow | but yes, we can make the output louder by digital means some day |
| 23:11:38 | preglow | but there is a limit |
| 23:11:50 | T0mas_ | hmz... |
| 23:11:55 | T0mas_ | some time ago... |
| 23:12:04 | T0mas_ | I was thinking about a audio compressor |
| 23:12:09 | T0mas_ | maybe that's what mirak want's? |
| 23:12:16 | | Nick T0mas_ is now known as t0mas (~Tomas@ip503c08d1.speed.planet.nl) |
| 23:13:04 | | Join Nibbler [0] (~sven@port-212-202-73-247.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 23:16:08 | | Join prethom [0] (thomj@s183a.studby.ntnu.no) |
| 23:16:08 | | Quit preglow (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:16:14 | prethom | ... |
| 23:16:19 | | Nick prethom is now known as preglow (thomj@s183a.studby.ntnu.no) |
| 23:16:36 | t0mas | wb |
| 23:16:37 | preglow | no, a compressor is not what he wants |
| 23:16:50 | preglow | he wants a hard limiter, or a realtime normalizer |
| 23:16:54 | t0mas | eh... |
| 23:16:59 | t0mas | a compressor is about that... |
| 23:17:12 | preglow | no, not really, heh |
| 23:17:26 | preglow | a compressor changes transients as well |
| 23:17:41 | preglow | but of course, you can set it to do something like it |
| 23:17:45 | t0mas | yeah, but it has the same effect as a hard limiter... only sounding better |
| 23:17:53 | mirak | t0mas: why a compressor ? |
| 23:17:59 | mirak | I want a loudnessor :D |
| 23:18:12 | t0mas | yeah, but with a compressor you can put the gain higher |
| 23:18:18 | t0mas | and have a louder sound experience... |
| 23:18:24 | t0mas | without clipping |
| 23:18:34 | mirak | well I use that (not) to play bass |
| 23:18:40 | mirak | on bass it reduce the attak |
| 23:18:50 | mirak | you can do some fun things with that |
| 23:18:52 | t0mas | yeah, I have it on my guitar amp... |
| 23:19:19 | mirak | well any way I don't think that even talking about software gain is valid |
| 23:19:34 | mirak | because in fact nothing links the sound data to the device |
| 23:19:51 | mirak | expt maybe the bits to represant amplitude |
| 23:20:05 | t0mas | ? |
| 23:20:11 | mirak | but you can rescalle the sound range easily |
| 23:20:45 | mirak | on a 16bits coded sound it means that 16bits are used to code the sound volume |
| 23:20:49 | t0mas | hm... check the demo of this player: http://otsdj.com/ |
| 23:20:57 | mirak | wich mean you can choose between 65536 values |
| 23:21:06 | t0mas | it has a really good software audio compressor |
| 23:21:25 | t0mas | you can hear the effect I mean... just use the presets for lounge and radio... |
| 23:21:26 | mirak | I will not recompress all my mp3 |
| 23:21:33 | t0mas | no, it's totally different |
| 23:21:35 | mirak | I see what you mean |
| 23:21:48 | t0mas | it's not file compression... it's audio compression... |
| 23:21:57 | mirak | a compressor cuts down the audio pikes |
| 23:22:00 | t0mas | yea |
| 23:22:18 | t0mas | so you can put the gain higher... and still have no clipping |
| 23:22:21 | mirak | if I want to change the gain of the mp3 I need to decompress |
| 23:22:27 | mirak | or can I |
| 23:22:30 | mirak | I don't know |
| 23:22:35 | mirak | well |
| 23:22:42 | t0mas | well... the compressor should do that while playing |
| 23:22:43 | preglow | i think a plain look ahead hard limiter will do the job better |
| 23:23:10 | mirak | I might as well use an external amplificator |
| 23:23:11 | t0mas | preglow: a hard limiter just cut's off the peak right? |
| 23:23:23 | mirak | t0mas: yes |
| 23:23:38 | t0mas | hm... sound's easyer to code... |
| 23:23:42 | mirak | in fact you do what you want |
| 23:23:52 | preglow | it just plain gains, but it looks ahead, and turns down the gain when things will clip |
| 23:23:54 | mirak | maybe the iriver firmware could be hacked |
| 23:23:57 | t0mas | nope... a compressor starts at say 20 db under the top |
| 23:24:15 | t0mas | and "compresses" the peaks |
| 23:24:22 | t0mas | so not just reduce the clipping parts |
| 23:24:32 | t0mas | but I guess it's a little hard to code that.. |
| 23:24:40 | preglow | not really |
| 23:24:40 | mirak | I mean you can set the delay of the compressor |
| 23:25:13 | mirak | well anyway I don't see the interest of a compressor |
| 23:25:17 | t0mas | hm.. I use a compressor + limiter :) |
| 23:25:23 | mirak | since it will alter the original sound |
| 23:25:31 | mirak | guitar is evil |
| 23:25:36 | mirak | :) |
| 23:25:45 | t0mas | ghehe |
| 23:25:46 | preglow | if you want more juice and the hardware can't offer more, you don't have a choice, you have to alter the original sound |
| 23:26:12 | t0mas | well... for just playing as lous as possible a limiter is ok... |
| 23:26:13 | preglow | the only other alternative is a normalizer or something, but that won't pump up the volume as much |
| 23:26:31 | mirak | that's not a normaliser |
| 23:26:53 | preglow | what's not a normalizer? |
| 23:26:54 | mirak | a normaliser push the sound with little volume and cut's down the higher |
| 23:27:02 | mirak | it put's the sound between a range in fact |
| 23:27:05 | t0mas | eh mirak |
| 23:27:08 | t0mas | that's a compressor |
| 23:27:15 | Bagder | haha |
| 23:27:15 | mirak | no |
| 23:27:17 | preglow | a normalizer just fits the audio to the max level |
| 23:27:21 | t0mas | normalizer just makes the average volume the same for all songs |
| 23:27:22 | preglow | plain and simple |
| 23:27:27 | mirak | a compressor doesn't augment the low volume |
| 23:27:33 | t0mas | it does mirak |
| 23:28:02 | t0mas | take you bass... play a soft note... and listen... then hit it hard... it will output at volumes closer together than without the compressor |
| 23:28:16 | mirak | I don't have a compressor |
| 23:28:20 | mirak | on my amp |
| 23:28:20 | | Quit vol ("leaving") |
| 23:28:27 | mirak | I don't have a amp here by the way |
| 23:28:33 | mirak | just a bass ^^ |
| 23:28:36 | t0mas | lol |
| 23:28:40 | mirak | but I used a compressor already |
| 23:29:00 | mirak | anyway I don't want to normalise or compress |
| 23:29:05 | mirak | I just want more gain |
| 23:29:09 | preglow | but yes, if i have it my way, rockbox will evolve into dsp effect heaven, so you'll get your effects |
| 23:29:12 | preglow | heh |
| 23:29:13 | t0mas | hm.. for just maximum ear blast a limiter is ok |
| 23:29:14 | mirak | even if it's software |
| 23:29:15 | mirak | I don't care |
| 23:29:40 | mirak | I don't know why iriver choosed to have such a weak output |
| 23:29:51 | t0mas | preglow: dsp as in winamp plugin dsp? :D |
| 23:29:59 | preglow | t0mas: well, yes, kind of |
| 23:30:08 | preglow | t0mas: just that we're a bit more constrained on the cpu power |
| 23:30:20 | preglow | should still be more than enough for eqs, filters, reverbs, etc |
| 23:30:30 | preglow | just not very many at once, heh |
| 23:30:39 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 23:30:40 | t0mas | hm... sounds good |
| 23:30:57 | t0mas | http://homepage.ntlworld.com/cyborgsystems/CS_Main/RockBox/RockBox.htm |
| 23:31:09 | t0mas | there is a nice audio control thing |
| 23:32:00 | mirak | t0mas: you see, in winamp, you can increase the gain |
| 23:32:00 | mirak | I want 25 fps video |
| 23:32:01 | mirak | ;) |
| 23:32:17 | t0mas | lol |
| 23:32:28 | t0mas | I want more vacation's.... :P |
| 23:33:01 | | Join Camilo [0] (~chatzilla@userca029.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 23:33:05 | preglow | i want just vacation |
| 23:33:13 | preglow | straight, good, paid vacation, 24/7 |
| 23:33:20 | t0mas | ghehe |
| 23:33:24 | mirak | I have tried Archos headphones on the iriver |
| 23:33:29 | mirak | there is almost no sound |
| 23:33:32 | mirak | commoing out |
| 23:33:34 | mirak | :-/ |
| 23:33:41 | t0mas | mirak... you play on stage to much? |
| 23:33:56 | t0mas | having a lot of ear damage? |
| 23:34:48 | t0mas | I never use the highest volumesettings of my iriver.... |
| 23:35:01 | mirak | me either |
| 23:35:13 | mirak | with the head phones bought with it |
| 23:35:15 | preglow | then why are you complaining about the volume? :P |
| 23:35:30 | mirak | howver with other headphnoes I have I must increase the volume by 10 |
| 23:35:41 | mirak | because I don't like this headphones |
| 23:35:41 | preglow | ahh |
| 23:35:47 | preglow | i never use those earplugs |
| 23:35:52 | mirak | they don't fit in my hears and doesn't give good basses |
| 23:35:54 | preglow | i never use earplugs, at that |
| 23:36:01 | t0mas | I normally use sony plugs |
| 23:36:11 | preglow | i require great big large earphones |
| 23:36:21 | mirak | I want to buy others, but I am not sure iriver will have enough power |
| 23:36:30 | t0mas | hm.. but I have the US firmware... |
| 23:36:38 | mirak | preglow: I don't see how you can have sound ith such big ones |
| 23:36:44 | mirak | I have korean |
| 23:36:45 | preglow | how? |
| 23:36:55 | t0mas | hm... only EU is limited afaik |
| 23:36:55 | preglow | i have much sound |
| 23:36:55 | mirak | I might try US one once |
| 23:36:59 | mirak | yep |
| 23:37:02 | mirak | I tried it |
| 23:37:06 | mirak | it's not that much lower |
| 23:37:09 | mirak | but it is |
| 23:37:11 | t0mas | never tried... |
| 23:37:21 | t0mas | boucht it... and upgraded to a US version |
| 23:37:29 | mirak | I suspect iriver to have put a limitation on the other firmwares als |
| 23:37:31 | mirak | also |
| 23:37:37 | t0mas | ghehe |
| 23:37:41 | mirak | I guess they don't want to destroy our hears |
| 23:37:42 | mirak | ears |
| 23:37:43 | t0mas | maybe it's a conspiracy? :P |
| 23:38:08 | mirak | however there is some stupid guys that put the music so loud you can hear what they hear |
| 23:38:16 | mirak | that's their problem |
| 23:38:39 | mirak | I am focusing on this to much |
| 23:38:48 | * | t0mas looks up... what? never did that... |
| 23:38:52 | mirak | this bother me more than the 10fps thing on video |
| 23:38:54 | mirak | lol |
| 23:39:14 | mirak | preglow: what is your player ? |
| 23:39:16 | preglow | h120 |
| 23:39:32 | mirak | I suspect the H100 to have more output volume thne |
| 23:39:33 | mirak | then |
| 23:39:33 | * | t0mas has a h120 too |
| 23:39:51 | mirak | it's supposed to be the same chips |
| 23:39:55 | mirak | isn't it ? |
| 23:40:05 | mirak | ok by |
| 23:40:08 | mirak | I go to bed |
| 23:40:10 | mirak | bye |
| 23:40:11 | t0mas | good night |
| 23:40:45 | mirak | I can put the sound to the max without feeling pain |
| 23:40:50 | mirak | that's not normal ^^ |
| 23:41:06 | mirak | ;) |
| 23:41:23 | HCl | hmm |
| 23:41:30 | * | HCl looks at that cyborgsystems site |
| 23:41:38 | HCl | maybe we should import some of those things into cvs? |
| 23:41:53 | Bagder | hehe |
| 23:42:11 | Bagder | try googling for bluechip and rockbox and gpl |
| 23:42:15 | Bagder | read and weap |
| 23:43:23 | Bagder | then of course, I am the devil |
| 23:44:33 | HCl | i don't quite follow |
| 23:44:37 | HCl | his code is public domain? |
| 23:44:47 | Bagder | its not very clear |
| 23:44:48 | HCl | can't we still adopt it and just release it under the gpl then? |
| 23:44:57 | HCl | and he can just not release his sources next time |
| 23:44:59 | Bagder | I'd rather not |
| 23:45:00 | amiconn | Haha. But: can you ever be sure that all of the developers that gave their realname (except Linus and Zagor) really gave their true name? |
| 23:45:00 | HCl | if he doesn't want it gpled |
| 23:45:20 | Bagder | amiconn: of course not |
| 23:46:30 | * | t0mas searches his GPG signature :) |
| 23:47:59 | * | t0mas is going to bed... |
| 23:48:03 | t0mas | good night |
| 23:48:05 | Camilo | I'm not sure what the hangup about GPL is |
| 23:48:13 | | Nick t0mas is now known as t0mas|zzz (~Tomas@ip503c08d1.speed.planet.nl) |
| 23:48:29 | | Join matsl [0] (~matsl@1-1-4-2a.mal.sth.bostream.se) |
| 23:48:45 | HCl | me neither, it seems to me as pd seems rather compatible |
| 23:48:59 | HCl | any code he releases under PD can be put under any license by anyone |
| 23:49:06 | t0mas|zzz | eh... |
| 23:49:12 | t0mas|zzz | don't think so... |
| 23:49:22 | HCl | let me get the link again >.<; |
| 23:49:30 | * | HCl just closed his browser window |
| 23:49:31 | t0mas|zzz | he is the author... and only the author can put the code under a license... |
| 23:49:48 | HCl | well, thats the whole thing. pd isn't licensed |
| 23:49:51 | HCl | he's actually giving the code to everyone |
| 23:49:52 | Camilo | except when you put something in the public domain - you are giving everyone that privilege |
| 23:49:54 | HCl | saying do whatever you want. |
| 23:49:57 | Camilo | yep |
| 23:50:01 | HCl | yes, thats pd. |
| 23:50:02 | t0mas|zzz | but... on the other hand... microsoft licensed some bsd pd code... |
| 23:50:07 | t0mas|zzz | for win9x networking |
| 23:50:18 | Camilo | and possibly distancing yourself from legal implications of releasing the code |
| 23:50:34 | t0mas|zzz | hm... maybe just email him? |
| 23:50:36 | HCl | so i say pd is rather compatible, only we take all responsibility for code from that point |
| 23:50:48 | t0mas|zzz | and ask him if it's ok to import his code? |
| 23:51:12 | HCl | sounds okish to me. |
| 23:51:38 | HCl | need to check who communicated with him earlier |
| 23:51:38 | t0mas|zzz | well... email him? |
| 23:51:44 | t0mas|zzz | yeah |
| 23:51:47 | t0mas|zzz | check the mailinglist |
| 23:51:54 | Bagder | HCl: there's been a loooong series on the list |
| 23:51:59 | t0mas|zzz | found something about him when googleing |
| 23:52:18 | HCl | Bagder: yea, i read a big part of it |
| 23:52:32 | HCl | Bagder: as far as i understand it, pd means anyone can license it under anything |
| 23:52:37 | HCl | so i don't see why it would be a problem |
| 23:53:01 | Bagder | I actually haven't kept up with his latest moves |
| 23:53:10 | Bagder | I'm just SO tired on him and his stuff |
| 23:53:38 | HCl | would you mind if i talked to him and get a clear to import his stuff? |
| 23:54:06 | Bagder | feel free, I won't block others or the project |
| 23:54:12 | HCl | k |
| 23:54:28 | t0mas|zzz | Bagder? what's the problem with him? |
| 23:54:31 | t0mas|zzz | just being annoying? |
| 23:55:01 | Bagder | basically |
| 23:55:18 | HCl | i'll just write him a friendly email.. |
| 23:55:18 | Camilo | PD is just so 1980s |
| 23:55:29 | HCl | i guess. |
| 23:55:30 | amiconn | Most of his code is somewhat outdated anyway, and needs adaption (e.g. the USB handling stuff). |
| 23:55:34 | Bagder | its actually not sure you CAN release anything as PD |
| 23:55:39 | HCl | i see the good bits of both pd and gpl |
| 23:55:43 | t0mas|zzz | ghehe |
| 23:55:46 | HCl | either way. |
| 23:55:46 | t0mas|zzz | I see my clock... |
| 23:55:48 | HCl | the main point is. |
| 23:55:49 | | Join MoosCamaro [0] (MoosCamaro@m214.net81-66-158.noos.fr) |
| 23:55:51 | t0mas|zzz | and I was going to bed... |
| 23:55:54 | HCl | if the original author doesn't have a problem with it. |
| 23:55:55 | t0mas|zzz | I remember now ;) |
| 23:55:58 | MoosCamaro | hi all |
| 23:55:59 | HCl | we're not gonna have any trouble. |
| 23:56:05 | t0mas|zzz | good night |
| 23:56:08 | t0mas|zzz | c ya tomorrow |
| 23:56:11 | HCl | i experienced that before where like, a person was violating the gpl of dosbox |
| 23:56:19 | HCl | and the authors of dosbox refused to do anything about it. |
| 23:56:31 | HCl | and then nothing can happen |
| 23:56:43 | Bagder | as amiconn says, his code is very outdated now too |
| 23:56:49 | XShocK | i guess public domain is something that is not licensed by anyone, and anyone can use it. |
| 23:57:01 | HCl | i know, but his games, and audio plugins seem at least somewhat interesting enough |
| 23:57:09 | Bagder | XShocK: not strictly, but that's how people generally see it |
| 23:57:49 | Bagder | I'll shutup and code instead |
| 23:58:22 | HCl | this is actually quite recent? 2005-01-12 |
| 23:58:26 | amiconn | The only really interesting part (imho) is the Othelo game. Audio3587 functionality is part of cvs rockbox for some time (without the graphical candy), and a solitaire game does also already exist |
| 23:58:42 | HCl | yea, i'm mostly interested in the graphical candy >.o |
| 23:58:52 | HCl | i'm not saying i will import his source |
| 23:58:59 | HCl | i mostly want a clear in that its possible to use his source |
icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).