| 00:06:54 | amiconn | eek - cvs binutils don't build |
| 00:07:10 | amiconn | make[3]: Entering directory `/home/Administrator/build/binutils/bfd/po' |
| 00:07:10 | amiconn | file=../../../../binutils-20050421/bfd/po/`echo fr | sed 's,.*/,,'`.gmo \ |
| 00:07:10 | amiconn | && rm -f $file && PATH=../src:$PATH msgfmt -o $file ../../../../binutils-20050421/bfd/po/fr.po |
| 00:07:10 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK amiconn |
| 00:07:10 | amiconn | msgfmt: not found |
| 00:07:26 | preglow | i've got it |
| 00:07:29 | rasher | damn french |
| 00:07:49 | amiconn | wth is msgfmt ?? |
| 00:08:16 | rasher | message format? |
| 00:09:33 | preglow | NAME |
| 00:09:33 | preglow | msgfmt - compile message catalog to binary format |
| 00:10:01 | amiconn | msgfmt: command not found |
| 00:10:20 | amiconn | Found out it's part of the 'gettext' package |
| 00:11:22 | amiconn | Hmm, strange. gettext is installed according to cygwin-setup |
| 00:15:22 | amiconn | Ah, I needed gettext-devel |
| 00:20:52 | | Quit ashridah ("Leaving") |
| 00:21:39 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 00:38:47 | | Quit Sucka ("a bird in the bush is worth two in your house") |
| 00:42:53 | | Join TCK [0] (TCK@81-86-98-136.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 01:00 |
| 01:07:34 | | Join blackhole1 [0] (~blackhole@219.64.152.3) |
| 01:08:32 | blackhole1 | do anyone of u hav IDA pro edition |
| 01:09:35 | blackhole1 | Please reply |
| 01:09:46 | preglow | this isn't a warez channel, you know |
| 01:10:34 | blackhole1 | preglow: sorry but if some of u can help i will be thankful |
| 01:10:57 | MoosCamaro | preglow: you don't sleep? |
| 01:11:05 | preglow | MoosCamaro: apparently, no |
| 01:11:09 | | Quit courtc (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 01:11:17 | MoosCamaro | never you sleep |
| 01:11:25 | | Join courtc [0] (~court@adsl-217-10-171.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 01:11:25 | preglow | oh, i sleep plenty, just not right now |
| 01:11:39 | MoosCamaro | it's good for rockbx project |
| 01:11:48 | MoosCamaro | but for your mind? |
| 01:12:09 | preglow | i'm not doing anything rockbox related anyway |
| 01:12:24 | MoosCamaro | a ok |
| 01:12:43 | MoosCamaro | relaxation? |
| 01:14:17 | preglow | no, school work |
| 01:14:27 | preglow | combined with relaxation ;) |
| 01:14:41 | MoosCamaro | :) |
| 01:15:26 | MoosCamaro | you work in univesity? |
| 01:15:34 | MoosCamaro | university |
| 01:18:22 | preglow | yeah |
| 01:18:27 | blackhole1 | which one.,.. |
| 01:18:40 | preglow | norwegian one, ntnu |
| 01:18:55 | blackhole1 | ntnu...? |
| 01:19:35 | blackhole1 | http://www.mochine.com/~hubble/wave_bin.zip |
| 01:19:42 | preglow | norwegian acronym, stands for norwegian university of science and technology |
| 01:19:54 | preglow | what is it? |
| 01:19:59 | preglow | 404, btw |
| 01:20:05 | blackhole1 | sorrypasted by mistake |
| 01:20:28 | blackhole1 | preglow u r prof of which science |
| 01:20:29 | blackhole1 | ? |
| 01:20:48 | MoosCamaro | student, no? |
| 01:21:09 | blackhole1 | student ((: |
| 01:21:49 | preglow | nono, student |
| 01:21:57 | preglow | and electronics |
| 01:22:00 | blackhole1 | ok |
| 01:22:08 | MoosCamaro | very good student |
| 01:22:13 | preglow | weeeell |
| 01:22:22 | preglow | depends on how you look at it ;) |
| 01:22:23 | blackhole1 | preglow: so u must have good knowlege of asm and disassembly |
| 01:22:33 | preglow | that i have |
| 01:22:37 | MoosCamaro | :) |
| 01:22:37 | amiconn | Wow, I actually successfully built sh-elf-gcc 4.0.0 on cygwin :-) :-) |
| 01:22:44 | preglow | amiconn: tried making any code? |
| 01:22:53 | amiconn | I'll do that immed |
| 01:23:00 | preglow | amiconn: i'm pretty anxious to see how it performs |
| 01:23:18 | blackhole1 | preglow: did u try making some kind of robot |
| 01:23:26 | preglow | i actually think i'll just go ahead and build a cross compiler for 68k |
| 01:23:27 | amiconn | Btw, building gcc itself took ~40 minutes |
| 01:23:37 | rasher | get a real OS :) |
| 01:23:51 | preglow | blackhole1: well, no, not really |
| 01:24:23 | blackhole1 | amiconn: u doing some kind of LFS |
| 01:24:24 | blackhole1 | ? |
| 01:24:44 | amiconn | No, building the sh1 cross compiler on cygwin |
| 01:25:23 | preglow | damn, one would have thought they actually tried propagating these new releases to the mirrors fast |
| 01:25:26 | preglow | but no, not so |
| 01:25:50 | blackhole1 | amiconn: why are u buliding them... |
| 01:26:00 | | Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection) |
| 01:26:06 | amiconn | preglow: Building rockbox failed :(( |
| 01:26:10 | preglow | on what?= |
| 01:26:23 | blackhole1 | amiconn: can u explain me what rockbox is... |
| 01:26:35 | blackhole1 | and why r u building sh1 |
| 01:26:40 | amiconn | First, a ton of new warnings like "drivers/lcd-recorder.c:404: warning: pointer targets in passing argument 1 of 'strlen' differ in signedness" |
| 01:26:54 | rasher | :-O |
| 01:27:01 | amiconn | Then "drivers/power.c:78: error: impossible constraint in 'asm'" |
| 01:27:10 | preglow | blackhole1: what're you doing here if you don't know what rockbox is? |
| 01:27:24 | amiconn | ...together with a truckload of asm constraint warnings |
| 01:27:29 | preglow | amiconn: then we have a fun porting project on our hands :PPPP |
| 01:27:33 | blackhole1 | trying to find what rockbox is |
| 01:27:45 | preglow | blackhole1: rockbox is a opensoruce firmware for a bunch of mp3 players |
| 01:28:11 | blackhole1 | preglow: how can i contribute to it |
| 01:28:15 | preglow | by programmin :D |
| 01:28:22 | blackhole1 | in which lang |
| 01:28:23 | blackhole1 | ? |
| 01:28:30 | blackhole1 | i m good in C n c++ |
| 01:28:32 | preglow | c and asm |
| 01:28:38 | blackhole1 | k |
| 01:28:42 | preglow | mostly c, depends on what you do |
| 01:29:00 | blackhole1 | what can be the easiest part to start from |
| 01:29:17 | rasher | only hardware work and really time-intensive stuff needs asm (like codecs) |
| 01:29:31 | blackhole1 | k |
| 01:29:36 | rasher | the easiest part is by far the plugins |
| 01:29:50 | rasher | but you don't get your hands dirty much there |
| 01:29:56 | blackhole1 | why.. |
| 01:29:57 | blackhole1 | ? |
| 01:29:58 | rasher | but I guess it's still a good place to start |
| 01:30:07 | rasher | why what? |
| 01:30:37 | blackhole1 | tell me should i read all documentation to understand the proj |
| 01:30:54 | blackhole1 | means i will need a liitle bit of help as how can i start |
| 01:31:56 | blackhole1 | rasher: ..? |
| 01:32:43 | blackhole1 | rasher: hello |
| 01:32:46 | blackhole1 | preglow: hello |
| 01:32:48 | blackhole1 | ? |
| 01:33:14 | preglow | take it easy, we don't always respons in ten seconds |
| 01:33:27 | blackhole1 | k |
| 01:34:14 | amiconn | preglow: It seems they changed the integer constant constratint format. Again!! Grr |
| 01:34:15 | blackhole1 | see i m a computer engginer in india i m looking to contribute to some open source project if anyone of u can help on how can i start i will b thankful |
| 01:35:08 | preglow | amiconn: how nice of them |
| 01:35:14 | preglow | i'll try out gcc4 for m68k now |
| 01:36:55 | | Join ehntoo [0] (noclue2@24.177.161.77.up.mi.chartermi.net) |
| 01:36:57 | rasher | blackhole1: I guess the best way to start is to play around with Rockbox.. and then find something you want to add/change or even remove |
| 01:37:15 | rasher | just figuring out how to do that should give you an idea of the project |
| 01:37:25 | blackhole1 | k |
| 01:38:46 | rasher | do you have a supported player? |
| 01:39:08 | blackhole1 | what u mean by that |
| 01:39:16 | blackhole1 | i use xmms in linux |
| 01:39:43 | rasher | Hm.. :-/ do you know what rockbox does? |
| 01:39:48 | blackhole1 | nope] |
| 01:40:14 | blackhole1 | i just joined this room as some of my frd told me this is growing proj and u can contribute to it |
| 01:40:27 | rasher | I suggest you read up about it :) www.rockbox.org |
| 01:40:45 | blackhole1 | documentation is quite long |
| 01:40:48 | rasher | you can, but it almost requires you to have a supported digital music player |
| 01:41:17 | ehntoo | or a play that's in the prcess of porting |
| 01:41:23 | ehntoo | then you can REALLY contribute |
| 01:41:40 | ehntoo | <3 my iRiver. |
| 01:42:09 | preglow | ehh |
| 01:42:18 | preglow | binutils fails on _MAKE INSTALL_ of all things |
| 01:42:30 | blackhole1 | what are Jukebox 6000 |
| 01:42:38 | blackhole1 | is they some kind of mp3 players |
| 01:42:41 | preglow | yes |
| 01:42:53 | blackhole1 | so rockbox works on them only |
| 01:42:57 | preglow | no |
| 01:43:08 | MoosCamaro | good night(or other) all |
| 01:43:09 | preglow | it works on a number of other archos players as well |
| 01:43:21 | MoosCamaro | power and courage |
| 01:43:21 | preglow | and we're porting it to iriver's h1x0 line of players right now |
| 01:43:23 | MoosCamaro | :) |
| 01:43:24 | blackhole1 | what u mean by archos players |
| 01:43:28 | ehntoo | and the iRiver h1xx and Archos gmini are in progress |
| 01:43:37 | ehntoo | google, ph00l. |
| 01:43:53 | blackhole1 | is archos some kind of company players.. |
| 01:43:57 | ehntoo | yes |
| 01:44:00 | ehntoo | just google it |
| 01:44:07 | blackhole1 | yeh i got same |
| 01:44:25 | blackhole1 | so to test rockbox u need some this kind of player |
| 01:44:37 | | Part MoosCamaro |
| 01:45:15 | ehntoo | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockbox |
| 01:45:20 | ehntoo | whoa. we've got a wikipedia entry |
| 01:45:24 | ehntoo | wicked. |
| 01:47:24 | blackhole1 | ehntoo: i got what exactly is rockbox |
| 01:47:46 | ehntoo | rockbox, in a sentence, is this: |
| 01:48:07 | ehntoo | Rockbox is a third party firmware aimed at increasing and improving the capabilities of your existing mp3 player |
| 01:48:23 | amiconn | preglow: Seems that the constraint format is still the same... so I'm puzzled why gcc suddenly complains |
| 01:49:01 | blackhole1 | ehntoo: so i can build rockbox for my mp3 player |
| 01:49:42 | ehntoo | it depends on your mp3 player |
| 01:49:43 | preglow | depends on what your mp3 player is ;) |
| 01:49:47 | ehntoo | heh |
| 01:50:25 | blackhole1 | which kind of mp3 player can be made supported by using rockbox or bulding it |
| 01:51:39 | amiconn | preglow: btw, gcc is *right* about the signedness warnings about pointer targets in assigments |
| 01:52:03 | amiconn | ...and we've got at ton of 'em, even in the small part of rockbox it compiled before the error |
| 01:52:38 | rasher | fun |
| 01:52:54 | rasher | well, as long as they're legitimate warnings |
| 01:52:58 | rasher | and it still builds |
| 01:53:00 | preglow | blackhole1: http://www.rockbox.org/daily.shtml, they're all listed there |
| 01:53:09 | preglow | amiconn: what signedness? |
| 01:53:18 | preglow | amiconn: i don't get the warning |
| 01:53:31 | amiconn | Nice example: Look at firmware/common/memcmp.c, especially lines 98 and 99 |
| 01:53:33 | Ctcp | Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
| 01:53:33 | * | preglow tells gcc make to hurry already |
| 01:53:47 | ehntoo | heh |
| 01:53:54 | ehntoo | I hate waiting for compiles to finish. |
| 01:54:03 | amiconn | s1 and s2 are pointers to unsigned char, yet a1 and a2 are casted to char* .... |
| 01:54:39 | amiconn | gcc says this: |
| 01:54:40 | amiconn | common/memcmp.c: In function 'memcmp': |
| 01:54:40 | amiconn | common/memcmp.c:98: warning: pointer targets in assignment differ in signedness |
| 01:54:40 | amiconn | common/memcmp.c:99: warning: pointer targets in assignment differ in signedness |
| 01:54:40 | preglow | ahh |
| 01:54:41 | preglow | like that |
| 01:54:54 | preglow | well, that should be fixed |
| 01:54:58 | preglow | it's a valid warning |
| 01:55:28 | preglow | ghah, assembler error |
| 01:55:32 | amiconn | I got like 20 of them, although the compile already stopped at power.c |
| 01:56:16 | amiconn | Do you know what switches I need to tell gcc to keep intermediates? |
| 01:56:32 | amiconn | s/intermediates/intermediate files/ |
| 01:56:46 | amiconn | I'm especially interested in the .s |
| 01:56:47 | preglow | well, this is a bitch |
| 01:56:52 | preglow | i too need newer binutils |
| 01:56:55 | preglow | and i can't install them |
| 01:57:01 | preglow | ahh |
| 01:57:01 | preglow | -S |
| 01:57:13 | preglow | that'll just produce an asm file, though |
| 01:57:20 | preglow | it won't keep them, it'll just never assemble it |
| 01:57:39 | amiconn | Hmm, this likely won't work |
| 01:57:49 | preglow | it'll work up to the first linker step ;) |
| 01:58:01 | amiconn | I vaguely remember there is a switch... |
| 01:58:35 | amiconn | -save-temps |
| 01:58:46 | preglow | why, thanks |
| 01:58:48 | preglow | i'll remember that |
| 01:59:07 | ehntoo | no you won't... =P |
| 01:59:46 | preglow | why the bloody hell does make install need to compile stuff? |
| 01:59:48 | preglow | argh |
| 02:00 |
| 02:00:59 | rasher | that's curious |
| 02:02:48 | amiconn | Mrf... -save-temps doesn't work |
| 02:03:19 | | Quit blackhole1 () |
| 02:05:10 | preglow | well |
| 02:05:13 | preglow | i can't make gcc4 |
| 02:05:34 | rasher | This ahx seems intriguing |
| 02:05:39 | rasher | shame that the code is c++ |
| 02:06:13 | rasher | "an average AHX tune has a length of about 200 bytes - 5 kbytes (unpacked)." |
| 02:06:19 | rasher | sounds like fun |
| 02:07:09 | preglow | c++ should be ok with rockbox |
| 02:07:14 | preglow | as long as a c interface is exported |
| 02:07:22 | rasher | no idea about that |
| 02:07:29 | preglow | well, you'll just make it |
| 02:08:33 | rasher | plus the available code appears to be an xmms plugin >_< |
| 02:09:19 | preglow | seems like a cute format |
| 02:09:35 | rasher | hm |
| 02:09:50 | rasher | the xmms-ahx tarball contains an xmms and an ahx dir |
| 02:09:56 | rasher | the ahx dir has one (1) cpp file |
| 02:10:07 | rasher | called, amusingly, Windows.cpp |
| 02:10:21 | preglow | haha |
| 02:10:34 | rasher | ported over from a winamp plugin it seems |
| 02:10:54 | preglow | but yeah |
| 02:10:59 | preglow | that should be very rockbox friendly |
| 02:11:06 | preglow | no ram use, just synthesis |
| 02:11:06 | rasher | ah there.. xmms/AHX.cpp I think |
| 02:11:24 | rasher | I wonder if that's it |
| 02:11:36 | ehntoo | sounds like it'd be it. |
| 02:11:42 | preglow | i'll try compiling this shit on this machine, then |
| 02:12:00 | rasher | "The core being only C++ without system calls, it needs only some glue to adapt to specific players like xmms." |
| 02:13:49 | rasher | haha.. from the ahx page: |
| 02:13:53 | rasher | 26-Nov-98: AHX v2.3d-SP3 released (complete release) |
| 02:13:56 | rasher | latest news item |
| 02:14:05 | preglow | :-D |
| 02:14:37 | preglow | why, oh why, can't people keep their cvs trees working |
| 02:14:47 | rasher | Hm? |
| 02:15:14 | ehntoo | "Finally the 68000-Version of the Editor is out" Hmmm... that'd help as far as processor porting. |
| 02:15:33 | rasher | except that bit doesn't appear to be out under PL |
| 02:15:35 | rasher | GPL |
| 02:15:38 | preglow | we're not porting the tracker itself :PP |
| 02:15:45 | ehntoo | good point. |
| 02:15:53 | ehntoo | I should prolly start reading before I copy and paste |
| 02:15:53 | ehntoo | =P |
| 02:15:58 | | Quit cYmen ("zZz") |
| 02:16:05 | preglow | then again |
| 02:16:13 | preglow | having a tracker on h1x0 would be _very_ cool |
| 02:16:14 | rasher | that'd be a first ) |
| 02:16:17 | preglow | very little sound dj-ish |
| 02:16:18 | ehntoo | it would be. |
| 02:16:30 | ehntoo | hmm |
| 02:16:37 | ehntoo | that would be a sweet thing to have. |
| 02:16:38 | preglow | oh my god |
| 02:16:41 | preglow | rockbox and little sound dj |
| 02:16:45 | preglow | rockboy <- |
| 02:16:49 | ehntoo | ooooh |
| 02:18:06 | rasher | what the... |
| 02:18:15 | rasher | This plugin is under GPL. For a long time I couldn't |
| 02:18:16 | rasher | distribute the core AHX source, but now the authors |
| 02:18:16 | rasher | agreed to open the source, with the following license: |
| 02:18:16 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK rasher |
| 02:18:16 | rasher | > do whatever you like with the source codes, BUT: |
| 02:18:16 | rasher | > - DON'T sell them |
| 02:18:18 | rasher | > - DON'T claim they're yours. |
| 02:18:20 | rasher | > - DON'T use commercially. |
| 02:18:23 | rasher | > - bla..bla.. |
| 02:19:14 | rasher | That's... rich |
| 02:19:36 | ehntoo | ehe |
| 02:20:24 | preglow | of, how blissfully fast this box compiles |
| 02:21:43 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 02:22:14 | rasher | I guess ahx support is unpossible then |
| 02:23:34 | Ctcp | Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
| 02:23:34 | * | rasher sighs |
| 02:23:43 | amiconn | Hmpf. I managed to make gcc -S produce an output file |
| 02:23:46 | rasher | I wonder if mailing them would do any good |
| 02:23:56 | preglow | there, older binutils in |
| 02:24:02 | * | rasher nominates amiconn to do so |
| 02:24:09 | amiconn | However, this doesn't contain the opcode that it complains about! |
| 02:26:43 | preglow | haha |
| 02:27:21 | amiconn | It seems gcc4 actually checks asm statements itself before passing them to gas |
| 02:27:36 | preglow | ../../gcc/libgcc2.c:1256: internal compiler error: in do_SUBST, at combine.c:462 |
| 02:27:42 | preglow | ........ |
| 02:27:52 | amiconn | However, we use some instructions that gcc doesn't use itself... |
| 02:28:00 | preglow | amiconn: i find that hard to believe |
| 02:28:16 | amiconn | power.c, line 78: |
| 02:28:22 | amiconn | or_b(0x20, &PBIORL); /* Set charging control bit to output */ |
| 02:28:42 | amiconn | system.h, line 82ff: |
| 02:28:43 | amiconn | #define or_b(mask, address) \ |
| 02:28:43 | amiconn | asm \ |
| 02:28:43 | amiconn | ("or.b\t%0,@(r0,gbr)" \ |
| 02:28:43 | amiconn | : \ |
| 02:28:43 | *** | Alert Mode level 1 |
| 02:28:43 | amiconn | : /* %0 */ I_CONSTRAINT((char)(mask)), \ |
| 02:28:44 | *** | Alert Mode level 2 |
| 02:28:44 | amiconn | /* %1 */ "z"(address-GBR)) |
| 02:28:59 | amiconn | But: |
| 02:29:17 | amiconn | There is no or.b instruction in the intermediate power.s! |
| 02:29:47 | preglow | volatile? |
| 02:30:10 | amiconn | gcc says: |
| 02:30:11 | amiconn | power.c: In function 'power_init': |
| 02:30:11 | amiconn | power.c:78: warning: asm operand 0 probably doesn't match constraints |
| 02:30:11 | *** | Alert Mode level 3 |
| 02:30:11 | amiconn | power.c:78: error: impossible constraint in 'asm' |
| 02:30:38 | amiconn | Btw, that behaviour is very different from gcc 3.x |
| 02:30:56 | preglow | very possible |
| 02:30:57 | preglow | but yes |
| 02:31:05 | amiconn | With gcc 3.x, I got the actual warnings from gas, referring to some cryptic intermediate .s files |
| 02:31:09 | preglow | gcc 4.0.0 is very much a primary and secondary platform release |
| 02:32:00 | amiconn | s/warnings/errors/ |
| 02:32:05 | preglow | still |
| 02:32:18 | preglow | i find it very, very hard to believe that gcc knows anything at all about the contents of asm statements |
| 02:32:23 | preglow | apart from the constraints, that is |
| 02:32:32 | preglow | which reflect directly gcc internals |
| 02:33:01 | rasher | >< .. so.. ahx source is NOT gpl.. and the xmms-ahx is basically claiming to be GPL but isn't |
| 02:33:19 | rasher | Anywhere we go, license problems jump at us and bite us in the face |
| 02:33:29 | preglow | well, let's see if gcc4 works better on a 32 bit machine |
| 02:35:56 | ehntoo | in the words of old what's his name from the first Macintosh development team |
| 02:36:05 | ehntoo | "There would be legal problems, but we could just ignore them." |
| 02:37:49 | rasher | That'd be fairly stupid |
| 02:38:02 | rasher | since we rely on people to respect our license terms |
| 02:38:03 | | Quit micoo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 02:39:19 | preglow | they're corporate, we're not |
| 02:39:47 | ehntoo | it was a joke, you see. |
| 02:39:50 | preglow | they more or less have to think that way to survive |
| 02:39:58 | preglow | haha |
| 02:40:03 | amiconn | preglow: Eeek - seems I found the problem - and it's not gcc's fault |
| 02:40:03 | preglow | lots of open source people ignore licensing issues |
| 02:40:09 | preglow | amiconn: spill it |
| 02:40:12 | *** | Alert Mode OFF |
| 02:40:18 | amiconn | #if (__GNUC__ >= 3) && (__GNUC_MINOR__ > 3) |
| 02:40:25 | preglow | hahah |
| 02:40:26 | rasher | hah |
| 02:40:27 | preglow | in what source? |
| 02:40:28 | amiconn | .. is FALSE for gcc 4.0 |
| 02:40:33 | amiconn | system.h |
| 02:40:35 | preglow | eh? |
| 02:40:47 | preglow | how can that be false? |
| 02:40:51 | rasher | && |
| 02:40:52 | preglow | ahh |
| 02:40:53 | preglow | of course |
| 02:41:13 | amiconn | I need to add || __GNUC__ >= 4 |
| 02:41:27 | * | ehntoo wishes I knew C in order to assist in development |
| 02:41:28 | ehntoo | *sigh* |
| 02:41:46 | preglow | BAM |
| 02:41:48 | preglow | i've got gcc4 |
| 02:42:00 | preglow | ehntoo: never too late to learn |
| 02:42:29 | amiconn | preglow: You first (unsuccesful) try was on your amd64 machine? |
| 02:43:22 | preglow | amiconn: my first was with their obviously broken binutils cvs, my second on amd64 |
| 02:43:29 | preglow | amiconn: and that bombed out with an internal error |
| 02:43:49 | preglow | amiconn: in gcc 4, during bootstrapping, it looks like |
| 02:44:19 | preglow | #if (__GNUC__ >= 3) && (__GNUC_MINOR__ > 3) || (__GNUC__ >= 4) |
| 02:44:21 | preglow | that'll do? |
| 02:44:36 | amiconn | Bleh. Now the build bails out by massive errors in system.c :( |
| 02:44:50 | amiconn | system.c:569: error: 'GII' aliased to undefined symbol 'UIE4' |
| 02:45:00 | amiconn | ...and a whole ton of them |
| 02:45:27 | * | preglow sees all the errors |
| 02:45:29 | * | preglow vomits |
| 02:45:47 | preglow | recorder/peakmeter.c:59: error: static declaration of ‘peak_meter_range_min’ follows non-static declaration |
| 02:45:50 | preglow | this is where i die |
| 02:45:59 | preglow | and god DAMN, the sheer number of warnings is staggering |
| 02:46:02 | amiconn | I actually read about more strict checking on symbol aliasing, but didn't think we use that |
| 02:46:42 | rasher | switching the builds over to gcc4 should produce an amusing daily build matrix |
| 02:46:49 | amiconn | hahaha |
| 02:46:51 | preglow | amiconn: there is an incredible amount of signedness warnings |
| 02:46:58 | amiconn | preglow: yup |
| 02:48:40 | preglow | but yeah, what kills me is that a static variable is declared extern in the header |
| 02:48:45 | preglow | which is quite obviously not entirely correct |
| 02:49:32 | amiconn | Yeah, fun. It's puzzling though that gcc 3.x doesn't complain |
| 02:50:19 | amiconn | The aliasing errors are sh specific (of course) |
| 02:50:34 | preglow | why define everything as 'extern' in a header?P |
| 02:50:37 | preglow | it's default anyway |
| 02:54:31 | preglow | gHAH |
| 02:54:46 | preglow | my synth_full opt exhausts the register store |
| 02:55:30 | preglow | and o |
| 02:55:37 | preglow | and i'm not about to rewrite that in pure asm now |
| 02:55:48 | amiconn | Gah! Seems I can't solve the 'alias to undefined symbol' problem |
| 02:55:59 | preglow | i didn't even understand it |
| 02:56:03 | amiconn | The actual symbols are defined in asm... |
| 02:56:22 | preglow | so? |
| 02:56:27 | | Quit Aison ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.72 :: www.XLhost.de )") |
| 02:57:02 | amiconn | C doesn't know they exist. Declaring them is obvoiusly not sufficient |
| 02:57:36 | preglow | c shouldn't care, it's a linker job |
| 02:57:55 | preglow | but i don't exactly get what's happening there anyway |
| 02:58:19 | amiconn | Yes... but read http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-4.0/changes.html , section "New Languages and Language specific improvements" |
| 02:58:36 | amiconn | This part is the initialisation of the exception vector table |
| 02:59:30 | preglow | ahh, it's that kind of an alias |
| 03:00 |
| 03:02:17 | preglow | oh well, looks like an asm rewrite of synth_full is in order tomorrow, then |
| 03:02:25 | preglow | think i'll call it a night now |
| 03:02:35 | rasher | sounds like a plan |
| 03:02:52 | preglow | i actually think it's more correct to call it a morning |
| 03:03:22 | | Join amiconn_ [0] (~jens@pD9E7EDE5.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 03:03:54 | | Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.) |
| 03:03:55 | | Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (~jens@pD9E7EDE5.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 03:03:57 | amiconn | mrf |
| 03:04:06 | amiconn | Seems this exception vector thing is done differently for coldfire |
| 03:06:23 | preglow | well, apparently |
| 03:06:25 | preglow | it built fine here |
| 03:06:35 | amiconn | ...better, afaiu |
| 03:06:38 | preglow | it got as far as to libmad before it stumbled |
| 03:09:08 | preglow | but yeah, bedtime |
| 03:09:13 | preglow | see you later |
| 03:09:18 | amiconn | night |
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| 04:13:27 | Byron | does the Archos pda thingy have an ftp client anywhere? |
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| 06:25:51 | | Join odd [0] (mrodd@fangorn.starshadow.com) |
| 06:26:07 | odd | anyone around? |
| 06:26:16 | Strath | kinda |
| 06:27:07 | * | odd is reading about the conflict between the rockbox-iriver team and the iriverlounge folks |
| 06:27:12 | odd | so ridiculous |
| 06:27:24 | odd | i don't understand why they're so protective of their info |
| 06:27:34 | odd | it's like they don't even understand the concept of free software |
| 06:27:41 | odd | free as in freedom, that is ;) |
| 06:27:57 | Strath | link? :) |
| 06:28:19 | odd | http://forum.iriverlounge.com/viewtopic.php?t=2&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0 |
| 06:31:55 | Strath | idiots :) |
| 06:33:23 | Strath | (statements about bush era crud...) |
| 06:33:32 | odd | yeah that was just absurd, heh |
| 06:33:47 | odd | i'm about as anti-bush as anyone can be, and i still could only shake my head and laugh at that |
| 06:34:34 | odd | eventually they simply say that the wiki is taking away hits from their board... but if the only reason people were visiting their board was to get hardware info about the iriver, then perhaps they have some bigger problems to deal with |
| 06:35:17 | odd | i've never seen such disgusting conduct from hackers/modders/OSS-developers |
| 06:39:33 | Strath | i host the site containing a majority of the hardware info relating to the gmini. It was nice that someone asked first before copying information over to the rockbox wiki. So i can understand why they would be a bit irritated if they happen to find thier research 'stolen' |
| 06:41:35 | odd | i can surely understand too... but it was a simple mistake, and the information was public anyway... i mean seriously, forgive and forget - it's all for the greater good |
| 06:42:06 | Strath | right.. :) |
| 06:53:02 | | Join LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se) |
| 07:00 |
| 07:15:17 | Strath | gah... annoying egotism to the effect of: "we knew it first, credit us even if we forced you to duplicate the effort" |
| 07:17:21 | LinusN | i agree with them about how the "theft" was done |
| 07:17:58 | LinusN | the first wiki pages contained very little credit to konrad and his team |
| 07:18:30 | odd | yeah, and that was wrong |
| 07:18:38 | LinusN | the sad part is that they continued accusing us of theft even when i published my own research |
| 07:18:44 | odd | but they should've just said "hey guys, can you add a little credit line and maybe a hyperlink back tot he source?" |
| 07:19:02 | LinusN | yes |
| 07:19:25 | Strath | ya, i understand that and was glad that i had been asked before gmini information was duplicated in the rockbox wiki |
| 07:19:52 | LinusN | that's how we normally do it |
| 07:20:29 | LinusN | in the iriver case, we were approached by the misticriver guys who asked what they could do to make rockbox happen on the iriver |
| 07:20:49 | LinusN | we replied that they should gather as much info as possible in the wiki |
| 07:20:53 | Strath | (a third group?) |
| 07:20:58 | LinusN | and it went on from there |
| 07:26:00 | Strath | it's just my first time reading that exchange, i agree with odd that he just doesn't(didn't) seem to understand open collaboration, "free as in freedom" :) though the burned ego surely had a large part to do with that... |
| 07:31:16 | LinusN | wow! i just realized that it has been exactly 1000 days since we started the rockbox irc channel |
| 07:32:18 | LinusN | or rather, 1000 days since we started logging |
| 07:32:22 | Strath | woohoo! :) |
| 07:33:04 | LinusN | nah, the stats are lying |
| 07:33:25 | LinusN | it's been a lot longer |
| 07:33:30 | Strath | how long had the channel been active before loggin started? |
| 07:35:32 | LinusN | don't remember |
| 07:36:07 | Strath | awh.... i only have 2196 lines :) |
| 07:37:27 | Strath | the "Big numbers" section is fun :) |
| 07:37:29 | LinusN | looks like we logged it from the beginning, or a few days after |
| 07:38:49 | LinusN | it's funny to read those really old logs |
| 07:39:09 | LinusN | history kind of repeats itself |
| 07:39:41 | LinusN | i do the low-level hacking, and people waiting for it so they can start hacking the high-level stuff |
| 07:41:12 | Strath | which would still really could think about there RIGHT? :) |
| 07:48:19 | | Join ashridah [0] (ashridah@220-253-122-138.VIC.netspace.net.au) |
| 07:48:41 | dwihno | *yawn* |
| 07:48:48 | dwihno | Finally friday! |
| 08:00 |
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| 08:50:38 | Bagder | LinusN: we've logged more than 1000 days actually as the irc stat is the dancer logs only |
| 08:51:06 | LinusN | saw that |
| 08:51:18 | LinusN | <LinusN> nah, the stats are lying |
| 08:51:19 | LinusN | <LinusN> it's been a lot longer |
| 08:53:09 | Bagder | ah, right |
| 08:53:35 | Bagder | 1039 days in fact |
| 09:00 |
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| 09:11:46 | ashridah | okay. i thought gcc 4 was kinda a ways off yet. |
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| 11:00 |
| 11:10:15 | | Join kurzhaarrocker [0] (~Phil@p509095E1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:11:28 | * | kurzhaarrocker searches schematics of a toaster |
| 11:11:44 | kurzhaarrocker | I want to port rockbox to a toaster and burn mp3s on toast |
| 11:12:19 | LinusN | you could toast your mp3 player |
| 11:12:33 | Bagder | that hurt |
| 11:12:56 | LinusN | bad jokes'r'us |
| 11:13:28 | kurzhaarrocker | toasting recorders is easy: just reverse the polarity of the power in. |
| 11:16:46 | dwihno | Been there, seen that :( |
| 11:19:12 | LinusN | repaired that :-) |
| 11:21:51 | rasher | wow, that iriverlounge thread seems.. childish |
| 11:22:11 | Bagder | yes |
| 11:22:35 | kurzhaarrocker | nah, they're not childish. They don't make jokes about toasters. |
| 11:27:57 | | Join ferenczy [0] (~ferenczy@fw.qcm.cz) |
| 11:28:01 | rasher | This is true |
| 11:28:21 | Bagder | I think they just weren't up to the open source way of doing things |
| 11:28:47 | amiconn | hi all |
| 11:29:56 | dwihno | LinusN: You realize you pushed my iriver purchase further into the future by fixing it? :) |
| 11:30:42 | LinusN | :-) |
| 11:31:36 | odd | are there any reports of a successful installation of one of those new 60GB 1.8" HDD's in an iriver H-140 yet? |
| 11:32:40 | LinusN | not that i know of |
| 11:33:07 | Bagder | odd: you can be the first! |
| 11:33:26 | amiconn | LinusN: Did you read about my attempts to compile rockbox with gcc 4.0.0? |
| 11:33:28 | odd | the drive is too expensive =\ |
| 11:33:30 | odd | though i am tempted |
| 11:33:35 | odd | and i've got a bit of disposable cash |
| 11:33:37 | LinusN | amiconn: yes |
| 11:34:02 | amiconn | Imho the restriction of the alias symbol definitions is silly |
| 11:34:23 | amiconn | I'm tempted to file a bug report for gcc |
| 11:34:57 | odd | you should if it's an issue for you |
| 11:35:27 | dwihno | LinusN: but with mp3 playback in the works, I need to get a hold of a ihp-140 asap :) |
| 11:36:03 | LinusN | amiconn: i didn't read the irc log thoroughly |
| 11:41:48 | Bagder | so what is the status for rockbox and gcc4? |
| 11:41:52 | HCl | odd: no, but someone had a successful installation of a normal 3.5" 60gb hdd by adapting a cf connector for the iriver |
| 11:41:57 | LinusN | doesn't compile |
| 11:44:16 | | Join sox [0] (~sox@c-a138e255.733-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 11:45:54 | amiconn | Bagder: (1) A ton of new warnings, regarding signedness of pointer target types (2) SH!: Errors out at system.c because of the symbol aliases to symbols defined within the inline asm |
| 11:46:08 | amiconn | *SH1 |
| 11:46:27 | Bagder | :-/ |
| 11:47:23 | amiconn | (2) Is the silly thing in gcc4 I was talking about |
| 11:51:08 | amiconn | LinusN: Btw, your building instructions are good :) There are only 2 additional remarks for building gcc4 |
| 11:51:34 | HCl | what about building for iriver? |
| 11:51:39 | | Join Aison [0] (~hans@zux166-181.adsl.green.ch) |
| 11:51:51 | amiconn | (1) You need the gettext-devel package (at least on cygwin) (2) binutils 2.15 is not sufficient |
| 11:52:02 | HCl | so it compiles? o.o |
| 11:52:14 | HCl | 2.15 wasn't sufficient already |
| 11:52:18 | Bagder | binutils 2.15 never was sufficient on iriver |
| 11:52:32 | * | Bagder is an echo ;-) |
| 11:52:37 | LinusN | 2.16 is released Real Soon Now |
| 11:52:49 | Bagder | its about time |
| 11:52:53 | Bagder | been a year since 2.15 |
| 11:53:05 | Bagder | roughly |
| 11:53:30 | amiconn | HCl: I'm talking about SH target here |
| 11:53:39 | Bagder | aha, on sh as well |
| 11:53:41 | HCl | amiconn: yea, thats why i asked |
| 11:53:46 | HCl | oh. |
| 11:53:51 | HCl | okay |
| 11:53:56 | HCl | has anyone tried it for iriver ? o.o |
| 11:55:21 | amiconn | HCl: preglow did |
| 11:55:58 | amiconn | It goes beyond system.c (the exception handling is different for coldfire). It errored in libmad instead |
| 11:56:40 | HCl | i see |
| 11:56:52 | * | HCl yawns and guesses he should try |
| 11:58:58 | amiconn | [02:55:45] <preglow> gHAH |
| 11:58:58 | amiconn | [02:56:00] <preglow> my synth_full opt exhausts the register store |
| 11:58:58 | amiconn | [02:56:44] <preglow> and o |
| 11:58:58 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK amiconn |
| 11:58:58 | amiconn | [02:56:51] <preglow> and i'm not about to rewrite that in pure asm now |
| 12:00 |
| 12:00:56 | Ctcp | Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
| 12:00:56 | * | LinusN doesn't feel gcc4 is that important |
| 12:01:55 | HCl | i'm mostly just curious to whether it'll be any faster. |
| 12:02:44 | HCl | if you look at the speed difference in code between 2.9.x and 3.x when 3 was just out |
| 12:03:31 | LinusN | we should of course test with gcc4, but i don't feel it's that important to port to it right now |
| 12:03:57 | Bagder | I agree |
| 12:04:21 | Bagder | but we will get questions and reports from others who try |
| 12:04:53 | LinusN | unfortunately, yes |
| 12:05:03 | * | LinusN edits the wiki |
| 12:16:20 | * | LinusN goes to lunch |
| 12:16:21 | | Join MoosCamaro [0] (MoosCamaro@m214.net81-66-158.noos.fr) |
| 12:16:31 | MoosCamaro | hey all |
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| 12:23:57 | | Join idlewild [0] (~89cd72b1@labb.contactor.se) |
| 12:27:01 | | Join preglow [0] (thomj@s183a.studby.ntnu.no) |
| 12:27:27 | preglow | why, hello |
| 12:27:56 | Strath | because you're here |
| 12:28:06 | MoosCamaro | hi preglow |
| 12:34:55 | | Join idlewild_ [0] (~idlewild@137.205.114.177) |
| 12:36:02 | | Part idlewild |
| 12:41:06 | HCl | hey preglow |
| 12:41:29 | HCl | preglow: did you try gcc4 with iriver? |
| 12:43:32 | preglow | yeah |
| 12:43:37 | preglow | one of my opts broke it |
| 12:43:54 | preglow | it uses too many registers |
| 12:44:13 | HCl | okay.. |
| 12:44:19 | HCl | think you can send me a copy of gcc4 ? |
| 12:44:24 | HCl | compiled, ofcourse o.o |
| 12:44:58 | | Nick Strath is now known as StrathAFK (~mike@dgvlwinas01pool0-a244.wi.tds.net) |
| 12:49:02 | preglow | why? it's a breeze to compile |
| 12:49:39 | preglow | i can send you my new cross compiler tree, but that's got binutils in it as well |
| 12:49:53 | HCl | i don't really have much cpu |
| 12:50:28 | HCl | but yea, please o.o |
| 12:51:13 | idlewild_ | does anyone use os x? I'm having trouble compiling the cvs binutils |
| 12:54:20 | idlewild_ | or anyone who's familiar with gnu compiling errors... |
| 12:54:34 | HCl | whats the error? |
| 12:54:35 | Bagder | what does it say? |
| 12:54:57 | preglow | HCl: glow.m0f0.net/crosscompilerbundle.tar.gz |
| 12:55:03 | idlewild_ | In file included from ../src/binutils/size.c:33: |
| 12:55:04 | idlewild_ | ../src/include/libiberty.h:94: warning: function declaration isn't a prototype |
| 12:55:04 | idlewild_ | make[3]: *** [size.o] Error 1 |
| 12:55:25 | idlewild_ | make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 |
| 12:55:26 | idlewild_ | make[1]: *** [all-recursive-am] Error 2 |
| 12:55:26 | idlewild_ | make: *** [all-binutils] Error 2 |
| 12:55:38 | HCl | idlewild_: thats not the error. |
| 12:55:48 | HCl | warnings aren't errors, search for where it says error |
| 12:55:50 | HCl | preglow: thanks |
| 12:56:07 | idlewild_ | yeah, confused me, cause I couldn't see an error |
| 12:56:08 | HCl | 1mb/s :) |
| 12:56:16 | HCl | o.o. |
| 12:56:54 | HCl | well, i suggest you try to find the error.. |
| 12:57:38 | idlewild_ | is there a reason why it wouldn't print out the error? |
| 12:57:53 | * | LinusN can't understand why it's so important to use gcc4 |
| 12:57:53 | HCl | eh. |
| 12:58:09 | HCl | LinusN: its not important, i'm just curious to the speed difference. |
| 12:59:42 | preglow | LinusN: you honestly don't think new people are going to be using gcc4 after a while? |
| 13:00 |
| 13:00:09 | preglow | responding with "you need to downgrade your compiler" isn't a good start |
| 13:00:34 | LinusN | no, the response is "go ahead and fix the rockbox code if you want to run gcc4" |
| 13:00:42 | preglow | ahh, but we'll be doing that first :P |
| 13:00:49 | LinusN | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CrossCompiler |
| 13:01:10 | preglow | there aren't any fatal errors that i could find |
| 13:01:15 | LinusN | i have better things to do than tend to version-junkies |
| 13:01:19 | preglow | apart from the ones i'm responsible for, heh |
| 13:01:54 | HCl | :P |
| 13:02:01 | HCl | i'm just mostly hoping it'll speed-improve |
| 13:02:02 | preglow | anywho, if gcc4 can make the codecs faster for me, i won't complain |
| 13:02:09 | HCl | 2.9 -> 3 was about a 10% boost |
| 13:02:31 | HCl | that was a lot. if you looked at it system wide |
| 13:03:26 | HCl | wow. talk about warnings, heh. |
| 13:03:45 | | Quit idlewild_ () |
| 13:04:38 | preglow | HCl: as i said, you can't compile it yet |
| 13:04:55 | preglow | the signedness warnings don't stop you, but synth_full not having enough registers does, heh |
| 13:06:29 | HCl | yea |
| 13:06:34 | HCl | preglow: i'm getting an additional error |
| 13:06:56 | HCl | recorder/peakmeter.c:59: error: static declaration of 'peak_meter_range_min' follows non-static declaration |
| 13:06:59 | HCl | recorder/peakmeter.h:79: error: previous declaration of 'peak_meter_range_min' was here |
| 13:08:56 | preglow | HCl: i fixed that, just remove the static decls for those variables |
| 13:09:05 | preglow | they're wrong anyway, i wonder why gcc 3.3 didn't complain |
| 13:12:44 | HCl | yea |
| 13:13:52 | * | HCl skips libmad, tries to continue |
| 13:14:55 | HCl | whats musepack for a codec anyways? |
| 13:15:27 | preglow | www.musepack.net |
| 13:15:35 | preglow | does it destroy anything? |
| 13:16:33 | HCl | nope... |
| 13:16:40 | HCl | only thing that broke is libmad so far |
| 13:16:55 | * | HCl is gonna try it |
| 13:20:18 | * | HCl prepares for it to crash horribly and set fire to his iriver |
| 13:20:41 | HCl | xD |
| 13:20:44 | HCl | yup. |
| 13:20:56 | HCl | IllInstr at 00000000 |
| 13:22:06 | preglow | ahaha |
| 13:26:10 | kurzhaarrocker | <- never really understood static; sorry for that peak_meter_range stuff |
| 13:26:23 | preglow | kurzhaarrocker: static means that it's internal to the file |
| 13:26:40 | LinusN | *if* the symbol is global |
| 13:26:47 | preglow | kurzhaarrocker: it's mostly ok, just two variables labeled static that are labeled extern in the header |
| 13:26:53 | preglow | kurzhaarrocker: and yeah, what linus says ;) |
| 13:26:55 | kurzhaarrocker | Isn't there something else? Concerning memory? |
| 13:27:42 | LinusN | kurzhaarrocker: the "static" keyword is mostly used to keep the value of a local variable static, i.e it remains between calls |
| 13:28:20 | LinusN | this has the effect that the variable ends up in the .data or .bss segment instead of on the stack |
| 13:28:28 | kurzhaarrocker | ah. That's what was dangling in my mind. static function local variables keep their value between calls, right? |
| 13:28:35 | preglow | yes |
| 13:28:48 | preglow | they're more or less global variables in disguise |
| 13:29:16 | LinusN | the name of the static variable has to be "hidden", so it still behaves like a global variable |
| 13:29:44 | LinusN | this has the side effect that the "static" keyword can be used to "hide" global symbols |
| 13:30:21 | kurzhaarrocker | cool. Next lesson would be when and why to use const... |
| 13:30:33 | | Quit Hadaka (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 13:30:48 | LinusN | when you want to tell the compiler that the value of the variable isn't to be changed |
| 13:31:04 | LinusN | it serves two purposes: |
| 13:31:13 | preglow | i really don't ever use const unless i use c++, for some reason |
| 13:31:22 | LinusN | 1) the compiler warns you when your code writes to it |
| 13:31:33 | LinusN | 2) the compiler can optimize better |
| 13:31:59 | kurzhaarrocker | Ah and 2) is the reason why the rockbox code uses it wherever possible? |
| 13:32:12 | LinusN | nah |
| 13:32:38 | LinusN | 3) it makes sure that the data is placed in the .text segment instead of .data |
| 13:33:07 | LinusN | (when the const data is initialized in the declaration) |
| 13:33:18 | LinusN | that saves memory |
| 13:33:58 | LinusN | if the data isn't to be changed, it is unnecessary to have it in RAM |
| 13:34:14 | LinusN | it can be in ROM, saving RAM memory |
| 13:34:26 | kurzhaarrocker | so the .text segment is placed in rom? |
| 13:34:32 | LinusN | yes |
| 13:34:44 | LinusN | if you run rombox, that is |
| 13:34:56 | kurzhaarrocker | Are there other segments? Like .code= |
| 13:35:02 | LinusN | .text is code |
| 13:35:05 | LinusN | and constant data |
| 13:35:12 | kurzhaarrocker | ok |
| 13:35:17 | LinusN | .data is data |
| 13:35:31 | LinusN | .bss is non-initialized data |
| 13:35:55 | kurzhaarrocker | hm. Bull Shit Stuff? :) |
| 13:36:05 | HCl | :P |
| 13:36:23 | LinusN | i don't know what it stands for, actually |
| 13:36:45 | LinusN | Block Started by Symbol |
| 13:37:09 | LinusN | http://www.cosmic-software.com/faq/faq23.php4 |
| 13:37:14 | LinusN | now i learned something |
| 13:37:45 | kurzhaarrocker | I hope we don't have to write a test next lesson ... |
| 13:38:44 | LinusN | :-) |
| 13:39:22 | LinusN | fyi, the .text segment has a copy of the .data segment, which is copied to RAM at boot |
| 13:39:53 | LinusN | so all .data takes the double amount of RAM when running rockbox in ram |
| 13:40:19 | kurzhaarrocker | ah! So maybe a clever implementation to save rom could keep the .data segment compressed and decompress it at startup? |
| 13:40:29 | LinusN | perhaps |
| 13:41:00 | LinusN | but making sure that constant data is "const":ed save a lot of ram |
| 13:41:06 | LinusN | saves |
| 13:41:20 | LinusN | that's what the const'ing is about in rockbox |
| 13:42:17 | kurzhaarrocker | So if we were neglegting the 'hiding effect' of static: const somehow implies static behaviour. |
| 13:42:46 | LinusN | sort of, yes |
| 13:43:20 | LinusN | but you can still have const local variabled that aren't static |
| 13:43:46 | LinusN | just to hint the compiler that the data isn't to be changed |
| 13:50:12 | | Join idlewild [0] (~idlewild@137.205.114.177) |
| 13:55:09 | | Join Nibbler [0] (~sven@port-212-202-73-247.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 13:58:40 | | Quit kurzhaarrocker (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) |
| 14:00 |
| 14:19:13 | preglow | HCl: i take it you've fixed the issue already? :> |
| 14:20:54 | * | rasher flibbles |
| 14:21:55 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 14:26:22 | | Quit lostlogic ("Going to the moon") |
| 14:28:41 | | Join Patr3ck_ [0] (~patr3ck@pD9ECFEE5.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:33:18 | | Join oxygen77 [0] (~c1c28427@labb.contactor.se) |
| 14:35:15 | | Join oxygen77_ [0] (~c1c28427@labb.contactor.se) |
| 14:36:17 | | Quit oxygen77_ (Client Quit) |
| 14:36:53 | | Quit oxygen77 (Client Quit) |
| 14:37:18 | preglow | i want more registers, mom |
| 14:37:46 | | Quit Patr3ck (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 14:41:01 | HCl | preglow: which issue? :x |
| 14:41:13 | preglow | illinstr |
| 14:41:36 | preglow | where did that occur, btw? |
| 14:41:44 | preglow | try reflashing with a gcc4 bootloader :P |
| 14:43:18 | HCl | :P |
| 14:43:20 | HCl | no thanks :P |
| 14:43:27 | HCl | it occured when i tried to load a gcc4 built rockbox |
| 14:43:35 | HCl | ftp://titania.studen.utwente.nl/rockboxgcc4.zip |
| 14:43:44 | rasher | did you make clean? |
| 14:43:45 | HCl | not that that file will be of much use ;P |
| 14:43:48 | HCl | rasher: ofcourse. |
| 14:43:59 | rasher | well you never know :) |
| 14:44:04 | HCl | true :) |
| 14:44:07 | HCl | but i'm fairly awake today :P |
| 14:48:13 | preglow | bah, i just can't be bothered to rewrite synth_full entirely in asm |
| 14:52:01 | HCl | don't you have the C version? |
| 14:52:04 | HCl | or is it already C? |
| 14:52:21 | HCl | i say add a define that checks for gcc4 to make it back in C for now |
| 14:54:26 | preglow | if it doesn't even make a valid image for gcc4 yet, i don't think there's a hurry |
| 14:55:27 | HCl | true. |
| 14:55:44 | HCl | and the only one able to fix it into making a valid image is LinusN , i think, and i don't think he'll make it any priority :P |
| 14:56:12 | LinusN | exactly :-) |
| 14:56:17 | HCl | :P |
| 14:58:00 | preglow | i think i should be able to find out why it doesn't work, but i'd rather use my rockbox time for codec opts |
| 14:58:37 | HCl | same. |
| 14:58:46 | HCl | i'm not very interested in putting effort to get gcc4 to work |
| 14:59:00 | HCl | eventually we might want to, but its not in a hurry. |
| 14:59:18 | preglow | you too would rather spend time doing codec opts? that's wonderful news :P |
| 14:59:24 | HCl | :P |
| 14:59:27 | HCl | no, other stuff :P |
| 14:59:35 | HCl | i'm wanting to look at the runtime db |
| 14:59:44 | HCl | i need to read my digest on the suggestions and add them on the wiki |
| 15:00 |
| 15:01:35 | * | LinusN wants a MELBUS protocol specification |
| 15:02:08 | preglow | what is melbus? |
| 15:02:13 | preglow | google wasn't very helpful |
| 15:03:13 | LinusN | melbus is the cd changer protocol in many volvo cars, it's a misubishi thing |
| 15:03:37 | LinusN | and i want to connect my mp3 player to my v70 volvo |
| 15:03:52 | LinusN | looks like i have to do it the hard way |
| 15:04:02 | HCl | i see. |
| 15:04:10 | HCl | i wonder whether that could connect to my dads volvo |
| 15:04:13 | HCl | not that it would interest me must. |
| 15:04:15 | HCl | much |
| 15:04:19 | HCl | maybe it would interest my dad |
| 15:04:21 | LinusN | there is a guy who reverse engineered it, but all he did was to start building and selling his own kits |
| 15:04:29 | HCl | >.< |
| 15:04:32 | HCl | gee. how nice of him. |
| 15:04:33 | rasher | http://www.mitsubishichips.com/Japan/new_pro/no.111/p18_1.html o.O |
| 15:04:48 | LinusN | and he is only in "beta testing", selling the units for $230!!! |
| 15:05:54 | LinusN | so i'll need to find a melbus cd changer and connect the logic analyzer... |
| 15:06:08 | LinusN | as if i had time for that... :-( |
| 15:06:15 | HCl | :/ |
| 15:06:38 | LinusN | i guess i'll have to live with the fm modulator for the time being |
| 15:06:48 | * | HCl prods amiconn. |
| 15:06:57 | preglow | how do the fm modulators sound+ |
| 15:07:02 | LinusN | crap |
| 15:07:09 | HCl | request for comments: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RuntimeDatabase |
| 15:07:17 | HCl | mostly note the last change |
| 15:07:37 | HCl | wondering whether there are any suggestions left, otherwise i'm interested in starting to implement it for archos |
| 15:07:51 | preglow | aren't there any car stereos with line in? |
| 15:07:59 | HCl | preglow: you can buy a fake tape. |
| 15:08:03 | preglow | i'm quite convinced i've seen some with line in jacks in the front |
| 15:08:07 | HCl | my old, old, old.... |
| 15:08:08 | HCl | car radio |
| 15:08:09 | rasher | Yeah |
| 15:08:11 | HCl | with a tape player. |
| 15:08:15 | | Join lolo-laptop [0] (~lostlogic@68.251.84.226) |
| 15:08:16 | HCl | i just stick a fake tape in it |
| 15:08:17 | rasher | My parents last one had a line-in |
| 15:08:23 | LinusN | preglow: there are lots of car stereos with line in |
| 15:08:24 | HCl | with a wire on it and a stereojack plug |
| 15:08:30 | HCl | and i just plug that into my iriver |
| 15:08:35 | rasher | there are some with usb-in as well :D |
| 15:08:42 | preglow | LinusN: then there's the solution! :) |
| 15:08:46 | HCl | didn't someone get an usb in the other day |
| 15:08:54 | HCl | and then it wouldn't recognise stuff above 1gb or so.. |
| 15:09:02 | LinusN | preglow: :-) |
| 15:09:03 | HCl | anyways |
| 15:09:06 | rasher | yeah, I read that.. that was silly |
| 15:09:10 | HCl | yea. |
| 15:09:25 | * | HCl considers the fact that his fake tape thing cost 15 bucks and gives perfect quality |
| 15:09:30 | preglow | anywho, i think i'll buy a car first |
| 15:09:48 | LinusN | HCl: my v70 doesn't have a tape player |
| 15:09:58 | HCl | LinusN: yea, i know how that goes.. neither does my dad's volvo.. |
| 15:10:03 | HCl | all cd fancy dolby stuff. |
| 15:10:09 | HCl | i'm happy to have an old radio player |
| 15:10:19 | HCl | that accepts a tape without any actual cogs in it |
| 15:10:30 | HCl | my fake tape gets refused by his jaguar's tape player too. |
| 15:10:47 | ze | but then you get the noise of the things spinning |
| 15:10:52 | HCl | yes, exactly. |
| 15:10:54 | HCl | i took the cogs out of mine. |
| 15:10:57 | HCl | first thing i did. |
| 15:11:00 | HCl | works like a charm |
| 15:11:07 | HCl | but his jaguar's tape player |
| 15:11:11 | HCl | refuses tapes without cogs |
| 15:11:15 | LinusN | heh, i'm not too keen on ripping the audio system apart either...the car will be delivered new this tuesday |
| 15:11:21 | preglow | hahaha |
| 15:11:25 | preglow | then i can understand that |
| 15:11:35 | | Join t0mas [0] (~Tomas@ip503c08d1.speed.planet.nl) |
| 15:11:40 | LinusN | so i won't open it up until maybe thursday :-) |
| 15:11:41 | preglow | i think i'd be far too busy stroking and polishing it |
| 15:12:07 | LinusN | still, i'm going on a long trip, so i really want the mp3 |
| 15:12:11 | HCl | LinusN: will yours be with one of those fancy gps systems? |
| 15:12:16 | HCl | my dad has that, its awesome :x |
| 15:12:26 | LinusN | HCl: no, it's pretty vanilla |
| 15:12:36 | HCl | you can even buy a tv module for it to get tv on the gps screen o.o |
| 15:12:40 | HCl | with a remote control too o.o. |
| 15:12:45 | preglow | hahahah |
| 15:12:50 | rasher | remote?! |
| 15:12:52 | HCl | yes :P |
| 15:12:55 | preglow | i really don't fancy too much electronics in cars |
| 15:12:55 | HCl | it has an infrared port |
| 15:12:57 | rasher | just how far are you going to sit away?! |
| 15:12:59 | HCl | on top of its gps screen |
| 15:12:59 | LinusN | cheaper to buy the car with no gps and install a 3rd party gps |
| 15:13:03 | HCl | rasher: maybe a meter :P |
| 15:13:17 | HCl | LinusN: prolly, but its still cool to have the gps controls on the wheel |
| 15:13:24 | LinusN | yeah |
| 15:13:28 | HCl | yup, my dads volvo is slick :X |
| 15:13:31 | HCl | anyways. |
| 15:13:34 | HCl | <.< >.> |
| 15:13:36 | HCl | rockbox, yes. |
| 15:13:42 | LinusN | i have a remote control for the radio in my current car |
| 15:13:49 | LinusN | guess how much i used it? |
| 15:13:50 | HCl | anyone looked at the altered runtimedb proposal? |
| 15:13:53 | HCl | not |
| 15:13:54 | HCl | :P |
| 15:13:58 | LinusN | at all |
| 15:14:12 | HCl | probably just as much as the dashboard control panel in the back of my dads jaguar :P |
| 15:14:14 | LinusN | i looked at it, looks ok to me |
| 15:14:21 | LinusN | (the runtimedb) |
| 15:14:24 | HCl | okay |
| 15:14:25 | HCl | thanks |
| 15:14:28 | HCl | anyone else? |
| 15:15:38 | t0mas | in wiki? |
| 15:15:45 | HCl | hmm... i have a bit of an open issue.. |
| 15:15:49 | * | t0mas is reading |
| 15:15:50 | HCl | that needs to be fixed |
| 15:15:51 | HCl | hold on |
| 15:15:52 | HCl | let me add that. |
| 15:16:35 | | Quit idlewild (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 15:17:38 | t0mas | well... it looks nice now... |
| 15:17:41 | HCl | there |
| 15:17:43 | HCl | refresh |
| 15:17:47 | HCl | read the open issues section |
| 15:17:56 | HCl | i need to have that defined before i can start implementing |
| 15:18:00 | t0mas | the fixed size is useble... as it makes reading a lot easyer |
| 15:18:30 | t0mas | hm... |
| 15:18:46 | t0mas | it is possible that there are 2 different mp3 files sharing the same CRC |
| 15:19:10 | HCl | also, the same hash will have to be in the tagdatabase.. |
| 15:19:17 | rasher | depends how you hash |
| 15:19:25 | HCl | rasher: no, even then. |
| 15:19:27 | HCl | i know that on my player |
| 15:19:29 | HCl | i have a song |
| 15:19:34 | HCl | that exists in multiple directories |
| 15:19:40 | rasher | oh, yes |
| 15:19:42 | HCl | which is an exact copy. |
| 15:20:17 | t0mas | hm... that should share the runtime info... |
| 15:20:19 | HCl | amiconns idea that they would share the runtime info was nice. but not possible |
| 15:20:27 | HCl | our runtime db format simply does not support it. |
| 15:20:29 | t0mas | as it's useless to have two playcounts for the same song |
| 15:20:33 | HCl | it insists on seperate runtime infos. |
| 15:20:45 | t0mas | maybe use the CRC as an index? |
| 15:20:56 | HCl | we could add an extra field to the runtime info |
| 15:21:06 | t0mas | (hadn't Bagder a good idea on this? mailinglist?) |
| 15:21:07 | HCl | that says to look elsewhere |
| 15:21:15 | HCl | did we? *looks* |
| 15:22:59 | HCl | nope... |
| 15:23:13 | HCl | no suggestions on how to cope with file duplicates yet. |
| 15:23:28 | * | HCl futilely tries to pause the tv |
| 15:23:40 | HCl | i always try to do that.. |
| 15:24:14 | HCl | anyways, what we could do, is add a seperate field |
| 15:24:24 | t0mas | ghehe buy a HD recorder... |
| 15:24:29 | HCl | that pretty much says "no, the runtime info for this file isn't stored here, its there! *points*" |
| 15:24:30 | t0mas | or a tv tuner card for your pc :P |
| 15:24:39 | HCl | i have a tv tuner card. |
| 15:24:47 | HCl | anyways. |
| 15:24:48 | t0mas | why don't you timeshift it with that? |
| 15:24:55 | HCl | um.. |
| 15:25:03 | * | t0mas normally does that when eating... :) |
| 15:25:03 | HCl | my cpu isn't fast enough to capture its data realtime. |
| 15:25:20 | t0mas | hm... my dad's P3 1.1 can do it... |
| 15:25:23 | HCl | anyways, doesn't matter. |
| 15:25:28 | | Quit webguest87 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 15:28:26 | * | HCl points at http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RuntimeDatabase#Open_issues |
| 15:31:03 | HCl | any comments/agreeing/whatever? |
| 15:31:04 | HCl | please. |
| 15:31:15 | HCl | i either need "no it should be that way" or "looks fine" |
| 15:31:16 | HCl | :x |
| 15:32:03 | | Join Shagnar [0] (~tester@p54A0E3E3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:33:17 | HCl | hey shag |
| 15:33:23 | HCl | i updated my grayrockbox today |
| 15:33:27 | HCl | if you're interested |
| 15:36:08 | * | HCl prods rasher |
| 15:36:12 | * | HCl prods amiconn |
| 15:36:21 | rasher | eep |
| 15:36:28 | HCl | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RuntimeDatabase#Open_issues |
| 15:36:33 | HCl | o.o. |
| 15:36:57 | rasher | better add that field in both dbs then |
| 15:37:06 | rasher | or.. well |
| 15:37:22 | HCl | no, the tagdb has entries for every file |
| 15:37:30 | HCl | and doesn't write to them. |
| 15:37:31 | rasher | would save a lookup when going from tagdb->runtimedb |
| 15:37:56 | HCl | it would have as much lookups o.o. |
| 15:38:05 | rasher | no, wait |
| 15:38:13 | * | HCl sighs. remembers his original design and says nothing :/ |
| 15:38:27 | rasher | if you have a tagdb entry, and want to find the runtimedb entry |
| 15:38:39 | rasher | it'd be tagdb->runtimedbentry->runtimedbentry2 |
| 15:38:39 | HCl | ohyea, i hadn't even considered that yet. |
| 15:38:44 | HCl | my proposal would create problems. |
| 15:38:51 | Shagnar | HCl yeah thx :] |
| 15:38:51 | HCl | if you want to go from runtimedb entry |
| 15:38:54 | HCl | to tagdb. |
| 15:39:01 | rasher | how? |
| 15:39:30 | HCl | it would link to the first file, not the file with the same hash thats elsewhere on disk |
| 15:39:47 | rasher | that's irrelevant |
| 15:39:52 | HCl | is it? |
| 15:39:54 | rasher | the runtimedb is "songs" not "files" |
| 15:40:13 | HCl | i guess. |
| 15:40:15 | rasher | so runtimedb->tagdb is not guaranteed to give a specific file |
| 15:40:20 | rasher | why would it matter? |
| 15:40:33 | HCl | the only time i can think of when you want to go from runtimedb->tagdb |
| 15:40:41 | HCl | is when you want all songs with a rating higher than ... |
| 15:40:50 | HCl | and i guess the specific file doesn't matter, if they share the same hash. |
| 15:40:59 | rasher | that's my thinking |
| 15:41:05 | HCl | i dunno. |
| 15:41:19 | HCl | need to try to think of a situation in which it would create problems. |
| 15:41:23 | HCl | if i fail, it might be ok. |
| 15:41:27 | rasher | :) |
| 15:42:06 | HCl | i'm almost thinking of just storing the offset of the runtime db in the tagdb. |
| 15:42:26 | HCl | since with my proposal, you'd have to check the field for elsewhere anywho |
| 15:42:41 | rasher | you might as well |
| 15:42:52 | HCl | but i guess it would break the reverse lookup.. |
| 15:42:55 | rasher | since it'd just be songno*constant + constant(header) |
| 15:42:58 | HCl | okay, that was a bad idea.. |
| 15:43:06 | rasher | hm |
| 15:43:13 | HCl | i'll just do my proposal then and have it stored in the runtime db.. |
| 15:43:22 | HCl | it doesn't make a difference in checks |
| 15:43:27 | HCl | but it allows to preserve the static size |
| 15:43:34 | HCl | and easy between tagdb<->runtimedb lookups |
| 15:43:41 | rasher | this seems nice |
| 15:43:50 | HCl | mm? |
| 15:44:00 | HCl | so with the "its not here, its there!" field? |
| 15:44:12 | rasher | yeah |
| 15:44:13 | HCl | k |
| 15:44:17 | HCl | i'll update the proposal |
| 15:44:47 | rasher | I guess we'll have a limit of songcount on the size of that field |
| 15:44:56 | HCl | mm? |
| 15:44:57 | rasher | set it high |
| 15:44:57 | HCl | wha? |
| 15:45:04 | HCl | i'm just gonna make it an offset field. |
| 15:45:12 | HCl | pointing to the used runtime db entry |
| 15:45:15 | HCl | for the file |
| 15:45:16 | rasher | yeah, nevermind :) |
| 15:48:25 | * | rasher watches Bagder appear and change the whole thing |
| 15:48:40 | Bagder | heh |
| 15:48:43 | HCl | :P |
| 15:48:52 | HCl | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RuntimeDatabase |
| 15:48:55 | HCl | request for comments |
| 15:51:04 | Bagder | I want the hash made on data that's available in the songdb |
| 15:51:17 | HCl | hmm. why? |
| 15:51:19 | | Join kurzhaarrocker [0] (~Phil@p509090B6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:51:35 | Bagder | to reduce complexity and gain lots of speed |
| 15:51:42 | Bagder | how else could you verify the hash? |
| 15:51:44 | HCl | sounds sane enough. |
| 15:51:46 | kurzhaarrocker | HCl: what would you think about a counter that counts how many times a song has been skipped? |
| 15:51:46 | | Quit sox ("Snak 4.13 IRC For Mac - http://www.snak.com") |
| 15:51:50 | rasher | *sniff* |
| 15:51:54 | HCl | can we trust the songdb data to be unique enough? |
| 15:52:03 | preglow | no |
| 15:52:11 | preglow | not really |
| 15:52:12 | HCl | kurzhaarrocker: grin. we can easily add that later. |
| 15:52:14 | rasher | why can't the songdb just *include* the hash? |
| 15:52:17 | preglow | but most of the time |
| 15:52:20 | HCl | rasher: good point. |
| 15:52:22 | Bagder | if we add path to the mix, then we can |
| 15:52:33 | HCl | Bagder: then we lose renaming |
| 15:52:34 | Bagder | include the hash? |
| 15:52:36 | HCl | i suggest what rasher suggested |
| 15:52:40 | HCl | make the hash on a songdb update |
| 15:52:41 | HCl | on the pc |
| 15:52:45 | Bagder | yes |
| 15:52:47 | HCl | and put it in the tagdb |
| 15:52:52 | rasher | yes.. the tagdb includes a hash.. calculated however we decide |
| 15:53:02 | HCl | *goes to change* |
| 15:53:15 | Bagder | it'll take forever to resync |
| 15:53:24 | | Part t0mas |
| 15:53:28 | Bagder | imagining scanning 12000 mpeg files |
| 15:53:30 | HCl | why? |
| 15:53:31 | Bagder | to get the hash |
| 15:53:41 | rasher | it's faster than you'd think |
| 15:53:42 | HCl | oh, the songdb creation. |
| 15:54:01 | Bagder | well, it would make it totally impossible on target |
| 15:54:03 | rasher | I did it in *php*, and it took something like 30 seconds for 6000 files |
| 15:54:30 | HCl | Bagder: well, including the filename might make it unique, but destroy the renaming ability |
| 15:54:31 | rasher | Didn't we trash that idea? |
| 15:54:34 | kurzhaarrocker | btw: Is there a special reason why the context menu of the db browser doesn't allow any playlist modifications like "insert" or "cue"? |
| 15:54:59 | Bagder | HCl: yes |
| 15:55:02 | | Join t0mas [0] (~Tomas@ip503c08d1.speed.planet.nl) |
| 15:55:09 | Bagder | it is all a matter of what we what to sacrifise |
| 15:55:10 | t0mas | ooops :) |
| 15:55:12 | Bagder | want |
| 15:55:19 | HCl | yea. |
| 15:55:27 | | Quit ashridah ("Leaving") |
| 15:55:34 | Bagder | I'm not vetoing anything, just bringing my opinion |
| 15:55:52 | HCl | personally, i think rehashing it on a file rename should be okay, the only big problems we'd get is when you rename externally. |
| 15:56:07 | HCl | which is probably not what we want, losing all runtime data when you rename files while mounted on usb |
| 15:56:25 | rasher | when would we need to hash a file on the target? |
| 15:56:43 | Bagder | if we don't want to resync on target we never want that |
| 15:56:51 | HCl | rasher: only when you don't want to update the runtime db on the target / want to build the songdb off a mirror of the files on the target. |
| 15:56:54 | Bagder | but then we lose runtime info until resynced |
| 15:57:00 | kurzhaarrocker | rasher: e.g. when recording |
| 15:57:13 | HCl | yup. |
| 15:57:23 | rasher | hm |
| 15:57:33 | rasher | I'd say that's an acceptable sacrifice |
| 15:57:35 | HCl | i dunno |
| 15:57:41 | Bagder | I could live with that too |
| 15:57:47 | HCl | i have no idea how harsh hashing all files is |
| 15:57:51 | HCl | on target |
| 15:58:03 | rasher | until you resync, you lose runtime info on new files |
| 15:58:11 | Bagder | yes |
| 15:58:15 | rasher | that doesn't sound too bad to me? |
| 15:58:17 | HCl | rasher: resync using the pc, correct? |
| 15:58:20 | rasher | yes |
| 15:58:22 | HCl | or just resync in general |
| 15:58:26 | Bagder | and we _could_ make some weird hack to attempt to fix that too |
| 15:58:31 | HCl | okay |
| 15:58:43 | t0mas | isn't this done in the media thing for ipod linux? |
| 15:58:44 | rasher | Bagder: dumping info to a third file? |
| 15:58:45 | HCl | so hashes are still stored in the runtime db, based on the file |
| 15:58:51 | Bagder | like "no in the db, I store the info here and we can try to merge it in later when we resync" |
| 15:58:59 | t0mas | (was it called podzilla?) |
| 15:59:01 | HCl | yea, flatfile |
| 15:59:12 | Bagder | but let's do that part last ;-) |
| 15:59:15 | HCl | t0mas: yea, podzilla, dunno what thats done. |
| 15:59:16 | kurzhaarrocker | Bagder: good idea. |
| 15:59:19 | rasher | simply write out "played this file" to a file |
| 15:59:21 | | Part LinusN |
| 15:59:26 | kurzhaarrocker | (both, the idea and to do it last) |
| 15:59:28 | * | t0mas checks how they did it :) |
| 15:59:28 | rasher | and have the syncscript read that file and merge |
| 15:59:31 | HCl | okay, let me get everything straight |
| 15:59:39 | HCl | we build hashes based on the files |
| 15:59:47 | HCl | and we store them in the runtime db |
| 15:59:57 | HCl | and for duplicate hashes the runtime db will have re-pointers to a single entry |
| 16:00 |
| 16:00:25 | HCl | for files that get added, you need the pc to update the tagdb compared to the runtimedb |
| 16:00:25 | rasher | and all other fields zeroed out |
| 16:00:26 | Bagder | how would the runtimdb know the hashes are duplicates? |
| 16:00:32 | HCl | rasher: yea, thats in the wiki |
| 16:00:44 | rasher | :X |
| 16:00:54 | HCl | Bagder: it won't. but it can check whether the hash in the entry pointed to is the same as the hash in the entry it came from |
| 16:01:08 | HCl | only the pc tool who'd have all entries in ram would know about duplicate hashes |
| 16:01:38 | Bagder | so why use the hash at all when referring to songdb entries? |
| 16:01:48 | Bagder | why not just a seek offset? |
| 16:01:59 | HCl | you lost me.. what. |
| 16:02:00 | HCl | ? |
| 16:02:14 | HCl | the hash is there to enable building of the songdb without the runtime db |
| 16:02:18 | HCl | there was someone who insisted on that |
| 16:02:19 | kurzhaarrocker | That would require that the runtime info is kept when you rebuild the song db, Bagder |
| 16:02:20 | HCl | i don't remember who. |
| 16:02:32 | Bagder | the hash in the runtimedb is only needed for resyncing |
| 16:02:39 | HCl | yes. |
| 16:02:49 | Bagder | ok, then I'm with you |
| 16:03:07 | HCl | okay |
| 16:03:24 | Bagder | the wiki is not clear at how it refers to songdb entries |
| 16:03:34 | HCl | mmm, it has a bit on it |
| 16:03:35 | HCl | hold on |
| 16:04:02 | HCl | right under the how its supposed to work |
| 16:04:09 | HCl | The runtimedatabase has a static size, and a record for every song in the tagdatabase. you can get the rundb record of a song by calculating its song record number in the tagdb (its the 768th song in the tagdb, for example), and then take the rundb record with the same record number (768th rundb record) |
| 16:04:14 | HCl | In the same way, you can get a tagdb record of a song by taking its rundb record number |
| 16:04:23 | Bagder | yes, but shouldn't that then be mentioned in the table? |
| 16:04:31 | HCl | hm? |
| 16:04:43 | HCl | we don't need to store it anywhere with the current approach, since you can just calculate it.. |
| 16:05:11 | Bagder | when you load the runtimedb it might contain thousands of entries |
| 16:05:24 | Bagder | you want to calculate all offsets then? |
| 16:05:28 | HCl | eh? |
| 16:05:33 | HCl | when you have a runtime db entry |
| 16:05:37 | HCl | you know its fileoffset |
| 16:05:39 | HCl | at least, i assume you do. |
| 16:05:43 | Bagder | why? how? |
| 16:05:53 | HCl | cause you know where you read it from o.o. |
| 16:06:00 | HCl | don't we? |
| 16:06:00 | HCl | o.o |
| 16:06:19 | kurzhaarrocker | Bagder: the other way round. You browse the tag db and access the runtime db with hash keys generated from the tag db entries |
| 16:06:23 | Bagder | hm |
| 16:06:28 | Bagder | I'm stupid |
| 16:06:28 | HCl | kurzhaarrocker: what? |
| 16:06:31 | Shagnar | HCl thanks for updating grayscale :) works pretty fine |
| 16:06:42 | HCl | kurzhaarrocker: no, thats not how it works at all at the moment o.o |
| 16:06:48 | kurzhaarrocker | <- me stops confusing everybody and pretends to be far away |
| 16:06:51 | Bagder | I didn't quite believe you would actually store all songs everytime in the runtimedb |
| 16:06:54 | HCl | issok :x |
| 16:06:58 | Bagder | seems unnecessary to me |
| 16:07:04 | HCl | Bagder: we can only update the ones that are changed |
| 16:07:08 | HCl | we just seek around it o.o |
| 16:07:24 | Bagder | if you add a seek offset to each entry, you can add only those that there is info for |
| 16:07:25 | HCl | but yes, all songs are stored in the runtimedb |
| 16:07:29 | HCl | allllll of these problems |
| 16:07:30 | HCl | were avoided |
| 16:07:33 | HCl | with my original design |
| 16:07:37 | Bagder | no |
| 16:07:37 | rasher | quiet now! |
| 16:07:38 | HCl | but that was rejected by everyone |
| 16:07:43 | HCl | :/ |
| 16:07:46 | Bagder | your original design was... crap |
| 16:07:51 | HCl | thanks :P |
| 16:07:51 | Bagder | :-) |
| 16:07:57 | HCl | it didn't have any of these problems though :P |
| 16:08:01 | Bagder | it had others |
| 16:08:09 | HCl | like? :p |
| 16:08:12 | HCl | i don't really care anyways |
| 16:08:12 | Bagder | like 12000 songs |
| 16:08:14 | Bagder | on archos |
| 16:08:18 | Bagder | deal with it |
| 16:08:23 | HCl | i'm just saying |
| 16:08:26 | HCl | this is the new designy |
| 16:08:28 | HCl | you wanted it |
| 16:08:29 | HCl | don't complain :P |
| 16:08:32 | Bagder | I don't |
| 16:08:35 | Bagder | I present answers |
| 16:08:35 | HCl | okay, good :P |
| 16:08:55 | HCl | so. |
| 16:09:01 | HCl | everybody okay with the current design? o.o |
| 16:09:19 | rasher | I think so |
| 16:09:21 | rasher | well |
| 16:09:27 | preglow | i don't care much about databases :V |
| 16:09:29 | Bagder | except for that I don't quite agree it is the best format, I could shut up ;-) |
| 16:09:30 | rasher | anyone here :) |
| 16:09:44 | HCl | Bagder: you're free to propose a better one, heh. |
| 16:10:05 | Bagder | well, for one I want a seek offset and NOT a 1 <=> 1 between the databases |
| 16:11:02 | rasher | well it isn't 1<=>1 surely |
| 16:11:11 | Bagder | entry wise it is |
| 16:11:14 | rasher | k |
| 16:11:26 | HCl | then we'd almost have the same as my original format, heh, aside from no seperate filename lib. |
| 16:11:37 | Bagder | HCl: yes, and no keeping everything in ram at once |
| 16:11:38 | kurzhaarrocker | it must be. We want each song in both db's. Don't we? |
| 16:11:47 | Bagder | kurzhaarrocker: not necessarily |
| 16:11:58 | Bagder | if we don't have info about a song, why have it in the runtimedb? |
| 16:12:11 | kurzhaarrocker | how can we store song specific data then? |
| 16:12:17 | Bagder | when we get data, we store it |
| 16:12:20 | HCl | Bagder: i'm confused, why would we keep everything in ram at once any less than my old design? |
| 16:12:34 | HCl | aside from mapping tagdb and runtimedb to a file |
| 16:12:40 | HCl | cause we have the exact same issue at the moment |
| 16:12:43 | HCl | if not worse |
| 16:12:43 | Bagder | HCl: this format does not require keeping it in ram, afaics |
| 16:12:59 | HCl | if we want to go from filename to tag/runtime db |
| 16:13:05 | HCl | we have to search the tagdb for the filename |
| 16:13:07 | HCl | take the offset |
| 16:13:16 | HCl | then search for that offset in the songs bit of the tagdb |
| 16:13:23 | HCl | then take the offset there for the runtime db |
| 16:13:28 | HCl | and finally access the runtime db |
| 16:14:00 | HCl | with the current design we'd need two searches to go from filename->runtimedb/tagdb |
| 16:14:19 | HCl | but ok |
| 16:14:25 | HCl | i'm not gonna whine over my old design anymore.. |
| 16:14:27 | | Part kurzhaarrocker |
| 16:14:46 | HCl | but this is how we would have to do things at the moment.. |
| 16:14:53 | Bagder | the 1:1 entry would prevent the second search |
| 16:14:58 | HCl | no it wouldn't. |
| 16:15:05 | HCl | we don't link filenames to tagdb entries at the moment. |
| 16:15:05 | Bagder | why not? |
| 16:15:10 | HCl | we link tagdb entries to filenames |
| 16:15:13 | HCl | and not the other way. |
| 16:15:23 | Bagder | tagdb to songdb entries, isn't it? |
| 16:15:28 | Bagder | eer |
| 16:15:33 | Bagder | runtimedb to songdb |
| 16:15:38 | HCl | eh? |
| 16:16:07 | HCl | the two searches are only for finding the tagdb entry |
| 16:16:12 | HCl | even if we don't have a runtime db at all |
| 16:16:16 | HCl | at the moment, if we want tagdb info |
| 16:16:18 | HCl | we have to do two searches |
| 16:16:24 | HCl | to find the correct tagdb entry |
| 16:16:25 | Bagder | we could easily have the songdb have all file names in a way that allows us to do a binary search |
| 16:16:38 | HCl | we already have that. |
| 16:16:43 | HCl | regardless of the way of search |
| 16:16:49 | HCl | we'd still have to pass through all songdb |
| 16:16:53 | HCl | to compare the offset of our filename |
| 16:16:55 | HCl | to the entries |
| 16:16:59 | HCl | to find the correct entry |
| 16:17:34 | Bagder | no |
| 16:17:36 | HCl | okay |
| 16:17:43 | HCl | tell me how we would find a tagdb entry at the moment |
| 16:17:46 | HCl | if we have a filename |
| 16:17:49 | * | HCl flops on the couch and sighs |
| 16:17:55 | Bagder | the search for a file name in the songdb should make us find the songdb entry |
| 16:18:00 | Bagder | on one search |
| 16:18:01 | HCl | it should. |
| 16:18:02 | HCl | yes. |
| 16:18:04 | HCl | but it doesn't. |
| 16:18:06 | HCl | with our current format. |
| 16:18:07 | Bagder | then we fix it |
| 16:18:11 | HCl | how? |
| 16:18:16 | Bagder | ? |
| 16:18:21 | Bagder | we fix the format and code |
| 16:18:22 | rasher | :-? |
| 16:18:28 | HCl | you can't link filenames to tagdb entries unless you have a static sized filename field |
| 16:18:36 | HCl | which *was* in my original design x.x;;; |
| 16:18:42 | Bagder | and that WAS CRAP |
| 16:18:52 | HCl | then make a better one which doesn't have these problems. |
| 16:18:59 | Bagder | we can have a fixed size |
| 16:19:03 | Bagder | but the size should be set in the header |
| 16:19:11 | HCl | sure, i agree with that. |
| 16:19:22 | Bagder | and we already do that for the songdb |
| 16:20:15 | Bagder | I guess a 1:1 mapping is better for the search problem |
| 16:20:21 | HCl | um. |
| 16:20:35 | HCl | you mean a 1:1 mapping between the filenames and the songdb? |
| 16:20:58 | HCl | (all tagdb internals, by the way) |
| 16:21:18 | Bagder | I meant between songdb entries and runtimedb entries |
| 16:21:26 | HCl | thats not gonna solve the search problem. |
| 16:21:38 | Bagder | yes, if each file name has an associated songdb entry number |
| 16:21:49 | * | preglow sits down and gets his barbecue equipment |
| 16:21:56 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 16:22:00 | HCl | then we can just as well make each filename and have the runtime entry number as well next to the filename |
| 16:22:09 | HCl | so we don't have to look up the songdb entry in order to get the runtime db entry |
| 16:22:19 | HCl | (which waaaasssss my original design) >.> |
| 16:22:21 | Bagder | you'd need the file search |
| 16:22:27 | * | HCl shakes his head and flops on the couch. |
| 16:22:36 | Bagder | and if the songdb entry and runtimedb is 1:1 then it is the same number |
| 16:22:44 | HCl | yea, it is |
| 16:23:38 | HCl | ofcourse |
| 16:23:45 | HCl | if we put the filename bit in a seperate file |
| 16:23:50 | Bagder | why a separate? |
| 16:23:52 | HCl | it would allow runtime data for files not in the tagdb |
| 16:24:09 | Bagder | we could allow entries without tag info in the songdb |
| 16:24:16 | Bagder | ah |
| 16:24:22 | Bagder | a separate would not help that |
| 16:24:31 | Bagder | since the file with file names would need to be sorted |
| 16:24:42 | Bagder | to allow binary searches |
| 16:24:49 | HCl | yes, has to be |
| 16:24:55 | Bagder | so adding files is painful |
| 16:24:58 | HCl | yup. |
| 16:25:01 | Bagder | but still doable of course |
| 16:25:50 | Bagder | so let's have a 1:1 mapping and let's add an "entry number" associated with each file name in the songdb |
| 16:26:09 | HCl | why would we insist on 1:1 mapping though? |
| 16:26:26 | HCl | if we don't, it would allow things like no runtime info for a file, keeping the runtime db small |
| 16:26:35 | HCl | same thing for no tagdb info for a file |
| 16:26:39 | HCl | keeping the tagdb small till its updated |
| 16:26:47 | HCl | we can just have two entries |
| 16:26:49 | HCl | next to the filename |
| 16:27:02 | Bagder | then how would you find the runtimedb given the file name? |
| 16:27:10 | Bagder | runtimedb entry |
| 16:28:01 | HCl | the runtimedb would be next to the tagdb number |
| 16:28:09 | HCl | like, instead of having a filename -> record |
| 16:28:18 | HCl | we'd have filename -> tagdbrecord, rundbrecord |
| 16:28:26 | Bagder | but then you'd need to write to the songdb when you add a runtimedb entry |
| 16:28:38 | HCl | no, you can simply have an empty tagdb record |
| 16:28:39 | HCl | for a file |
| 16:28:50 | HCl | and make it non empty when it gets a tagdb entry |
| 16:29:03 | Bagder | yes, that implies writing to it |
| 16:29:12 | | Quit pabs (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 16:29:33 | HCl | don't tagdb entries only get written when songdb runs? |
| 16:29:44 | | Join pabs [0] (~pabs@xor.pablotron.org) |
| 16:29:48 | HCl | incidentally |
| 16:29:56 | HCl | i propose an additional hash field next to the filename |
| 16:29:59 | HCl | to support renames. |
| 16:30:55 | Bagder | I thought we talked about hasing the music data for that |
| 16:30:59 | Bagder | hashing |
| 16:31:02 | HCl | yea |
| 16:31:04 | HCl | thats what i mean |
| 16:31:09 | HCl | a hash next to the filename |
| 16:31:12 | HCl | based on the music data |
| 16:34:06 | Bagder | I don't mind exactly where the hash would be stored |
| 16:34:17 | HCl | yea, its not really vital |
| 16:34:34 | | Quit pabs (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 16:34:49 | HCl | just seems a sane place to add it in the table that links filename to metainfo, to me anyways |
| 16:35:38 | | Join pabs [0] (~pabs@xor.pablotron.org) |
| 16:38:22 | * | HCl stares at bagder |
| 16:38:56 | Shagnar | will it be possible to move files later? |
| 16:39:04 | HCl | Shagnar: the hash should make it possible.. |
| 16:39:11 | HCl | since its a matter of taking the filename table |
| 16:39:15 | HCl | calculating the hashes |
| 16:39:18 | HCl | searching for the hash |
| 16:39:22 | HCl | and updating the filename in it |
| 16:39:23 | HCl | if it has changed |
| 16:39:34 | HCl | and resort. |
| 16:40:55 | Shagnar | thats nice. because, with an usb-otg-copybox you'll be able to move files and copy them on a player, so (e.g. in the holidays) you can fill a little flash player with music |
| 16:41:15 | preglow | i move files all the time |
| 16:41:36 | Shagnar | how? |
| 16:41:43 | Bagder | the only problem still bouncing in my head is to map quickly from a songdb entry to the runtimedb entry |
| 16:41:56 | HCl | Bagder: it would go through the songdb and the runtimedb |
| 16:41:58 | HCl | the songdb |
| 16:42:00 | HCl | would have an offset |
| 16:42:04 | HCl | to the filename table |
| 16:42:12 | HCl | and then you can read the filename table entry the songdb pointed to |
| 16:42:15 | HCl | to get the runtimedb offset. |
| 16:42:32 | preglow | sounds like there'll be a lot of nice cross references |
| 16:42:36 | Bagder | but that would mean that you update the songdb run-time |
| 16:42:37 | HCl | without needing to search for anything |
| 16:43:04 | HCl | well, the filenames is a table of the songdb anyways |
| 16:43:13 | HCl | you'd assume that if you update it, you have to update the songdb too. |
| 16:43:44 | HCl | you can put the runtime db offset in the songdb, but then you lose the ability to have runtimedb entries without songdb entries |
| 16:44:20 | Bagder | I don't follow you now |
| 16:45:01 | HCl | okay.. let me take it slowly.. |
| 16:45:11 | HCl | with some examples |
| 16:45:35 | HCl | "\iriver.mp3" <hash> 334(songdb entry) 555(rundb entry) |
| 16:45:45 | HCl | songdb entry 334: |
| 16:45:52 | Bagder | hold it |
| 16:45:57 | HCl | sorry :/ |
| 16:46:02 | Bagder | isn't this file name table part of the songdb? |
| 16:46:06 | HCl | yes |
| 16:46:22 | Bagder | ok, so how does it know where the rundb entry is? |
| 16:46:48 | HCl | it was written there when it made an rundb entry for it |
| 16:46:57 | HCl | (which is why i propose the filename table in its own seperate file) |
| 16:47:09 | Bagder | a separate file doesn't change much imo |
| 16:47:35 | HCl | we can just make it 1:1, and write empty tagdb entries for files with no tag |
| 16:47:53 | HCl | i don't really mind, the only downfall would be that the runtime db and the tagdb would be bigger |
| 16:47:58 | HCl | and that duplicate files with the same hash |
| 16:48:05 | HCl | would need that "elsewhere" field in the runtime db |
| 16:48:14 | HCl | where with an entry in the filetable that can be avoided |
| 16:48:22 | HCl | by simply pointing to the same entry in the runtime db |
| 16:48:23 | | Quit DangerousDan (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 16:50:36 | Bagder | the thing is that I don't really like 1:1 and I don't really like updating the songdb entry run-time... :-) But I don't have any third suggestion right now. |
| 16:51:33 | HCl | well, we need a pointer from the songdb entry to the runtime db entry one way or the other |
| 16:51:41 | Bagder | I agree |
| 16:51:43 | HCl | we can just choose between 1:1 or a seperate filetable |
| 16:52:08 | HCl | i'm not really aware of any alternative |
| 16:52:12 | Bagder | separate or not makes no difference to me |
| 16:52:31 | HCl | kay, i'm slightly pro seperate, mostly because it would deal with duplicate hashes nicely |
| 16:53:20 | Bagder | why does it makes any difference if the file table is part of the songdb or not? |
| 16:53:38 | * | Bagder types like crap |
| 16:53:39 | HCl | well, it doesn't matter too much, aside from that if you want to add a filename. |
| 16:53:46 | Bagder | true |
| 16:53:50 | HCl | (assuming the filename table is at the beginning) |
| 16:53:57 | HCl | you have to shift the entire rest of the database |
| 16:54:26 | HCl | putting the filetable at the end would solve that |
| 16:54:28 | Bagder | but it would be painful to have yet another file to deal with |
| 16:54:29 | HCl | but then you'd get a problem |
| 16:54:35 | HCl | when you want to add a songdb entry |
| 16:54:44 | HCl | and still have to shift half the database |
| 16:55:12 | Bagder | a file name doesn't imply any songdb entry actually |
| 16:55:18 | HCl | well, using offsets shouldn't make it have much of an performance impact |
| 16:55:21 | HCl | indeed |
| 17:00 |
| 17:00:19 | Shagnar | how can i get winamp to play flac ? |
| 17:00:53 | preglow | by installing a plugin? |
| 17:01:00 | dwihno | Yup |
| 17:01:09 | dwihno | The flac binary distribution contains a in_flac dll |
| 17:01:15 | dwihno | Works like a charm |
| 17:01:38 | dwihno | http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/flac/flac-1.1.2-win.zip?download |
| 17:01:39 | HCl | Bagder: i guess that if you put the filename table at the end of the songdb, and assume that we won't be adding tagdb records in runtime, it'll do |
| 17:01:40 | dwihno | There U go! |
| 17:02:27 | HCl | adding a filename to a sorted list shouldn't be too much of a problem anyways, its just a matter of doing a binary search and inserting it in there. |
| 17:03:25 | Bagder | that file name list isn't even sorted atm |
| 17:03:35 | HCl | yea, it'll need to be |
| 17:03:48 | Bagder | yeps |
| 17:03:53 | HCl | at the moment we're not doing any filename->tagdb links, but we're definately going to have to need that ability |
| 17:04:28 | Bagder | yes |
| 17:04:41 | Bagder | making it sorted should be one of our smallest problems ;-) |
| 17:04:48 | HCl | hehe. |
| 17:05:19 | Bagder | I looked at the code, and it could be turned into a sorted list instantly |
| 17:08:09 | HCl | will we put the filename data in a seperate file or at the end of the songdb? |
| 17:08:49 | HCl | we could always seperate it later if we bump into a need of adding tagdb entries runtime |
| 17:09:20 | Bagder | there's also the option to add new ones in separate file |
| 17:09:27 | HCl | ohyea. |
| 17:09:28 | HCl | i forgot that. |
| 17:09:54 | HCl | so just at the end of the songdb then? |
| 17:10:07 | HCl | we'll want to be able to add runtimedb entries realtime |
| 17:10:34 | HCl | (which is just adding to the end of the rundb, binary searching the filename table and inserting the new filename with a link to the runtimedb entry) |
| 17:13:55 | Bagder | I'm off for real life |
| 17:14:40 | HCl | okies, bye. |
| 17:14:50 | preglow | this is real life :V |
| 17:15:04 | Bagder | my wife thinks differently ;-) |
| 17:15:17 | preglow | skewed point of view |
| 17:18:18 | HCl | :p |
| 17:18:38 | preglow | now look at that, the clouds vanished |
| 17:18:46 | * | preglow goes outside |
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| 17:55:53 | Psy^Dead | hooray for linus! |
| 17:56:02 | Psy^Dead | (and the others) |
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| 19:00 |
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| 20:14:10 | | Nick StrathAFK is now known as Strath (~mike@dgvlwinas01pool0-a244.wi.tds.net) |
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| 20:21:14 | HCl | heh. pathetic. |
| 20:21:35 | HCl | the payed computer staff of our university sent an email whether any students would be able to help them secure mysql server 2000 |
| 20:21:51 | Psy^Dead | lol |
| 20:22:00 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 20:22:08 | Psy^Dead | give them the link to mininova |
| 20:22:16 | HCl | heh. |
| 20:22:22 | * | HCl watches catwoman.. |
| 20:22:29 | t0mas | LOL |
| 20:22:30 | HCl | (yes, that supposedly crappy movie of a while ago) |
| 20:22:42 | t0mas | sql server 2000 as in Microsoft sql? :P |
| 20:22:48 | HCl | i think so. |
| 20:23:22 | t0mas | damn... that's just a wizzard... |
| 20:23:44 | Psy^Dead | tell them to get the free one |
| 20:23:48 | Psy^Dead | mysql or something |
| 20:24:29 | Psy^Dead | i must type "n" a lot, its gone all shiney from rubbing the rough surface off |
| 20:24:38 | Psy^Dead | its worse than e or wasd |
| 20:25:54 | rasher | My n key doesn't have an n |
| 20:26:04 | HCl | my n key has a b |
| 20:26:13 | rasher | that's surprising |
| 20:26:21 | HCl | is it? :p |
| 20:26:31 | HCl | well, it depends on what you call your n key |
| 20:26:36 | HCl | the key that says n on it gives b |
| 20:26:38 | rasher | typing dvorak? |
| 20:26:46 | Psy^Dead | nope |
| 20:26:47 | HCl | and the key that gives n says l on it |
| 20:26:48 | HCl | yup |
| 20:26:49 | Psy^Dead | nnnnn |
| 20:26:51 | preglow | hahah |
| 20:26:54 | Psy^Dead | my n says n |
| 20:27:02 | preglow | i tried dvorak once, then realized i'd have to learn typing all again, then stopped |
| 20:27:07 | t0mas | weird conversation... |
| 20:27:09 | rasher | Haha, me too |
| 20:27:10 | HCl | its easy. |
| 20:27:17 | HCl | and types so much better than qwerty |
| 20:27:24 | preglow | yes, after you spen three months in getting used to it |
| 20:27:24 | t0mas | to get back on the rockbox topic :P |
| 20:27:31 | t0mas | does anybody know a free translation tool? |
| 20:27:33 | preglow | i can't stand not being able to use a keyboard any more |
| 20:27:39 | t0mas | or open wordlists? |
| 20:27:51 | t0mas | so I can write a dictionary lookup thing? |
| 20:28:12 | | Join Hornet_ [0] (Hornet@S0106000ea62d6f1b.vn.shawcable.net) |
| 20:28:42 | Psy^Dead | freetranslation.com or dictionary.com are crap |
| 20:28:48 | Psy^Dead | but the best you'd get |
| 20:28:56 | rasher | I think maybe speling.org has some.. but I'm not sure |
| 20:29:05 | rasher | istr some format with mappings between languages |
| 20:29:08 | Psy^Dead | translators suck |
| 20:29:11 | t0mas | Psy^Dead: I want it GPL-ed ofcourse... |
| 20:29:23 | t0mas | and I don't want it to translate... just a word lookup tool |
| 20:29:28 | rasher | well, the file lists wouldn't *have* to be gpl I guess |
| 20:29:29 | t0mas | like some nokia phones have |
| 20:29:29 | | Nick Psy^Dead is now known as nobby (nobby@ACD5D6FA.ipt.aol.com) |
| 20:29:44 | t0mas | rasher: as in let people download em themself? |
| 20:29:48 | nobby | no idea then, sorry |
| 20:29:57 | rasher | no as in, as long as they're redistributable |
| 20:30:05 | t0mas | that's true... |
| 20:30:14 | rasher | it'd just be a data-source for the plugin.. I don't think that has to be gpl |
| 20:30:22 | t0mas | ok... |
| 20:30:32 | rasher | think being the operative word here |
| 20:32:04 | nobby | licensing is really important to you guys, eh? |
| 20:32:25 | nobby | how come? |
| 20:32:25 | rasher | as it should be |
| 20:32:41 | * | HCl doesn't care about licensing much. |
| 20:32:46 | * | nobby either |
| 20:33:36 | preglow | hahaha |
| 20:33:54 | preglow | i can't possibly understand how one can deal with opensource software and not care about licensing |
| 20:34:07 | HCl | why not? :) |
| 20:34:10 | preglow | it's half of what it is |
| 20:34:23 | HCl | i just don't think its such a big deal |
| 20:34:30 | preglow | it's not just a bunch of shit dropped in the public domain because you can download it freely |
| 20:34:32 | HCl | like the public domain code of bluechip the other day |
| 20:34:40 | HCl | you guys went way too harsh on him |
| 20:34:46 | HCl | i'm aware of that. |
| 20:34:48 | preglow | hmm? |
| 20:34:49 | t0mas | ghehe |
| 20:34:52 | t0mas | rasher? |
| 20:34:54 | preglow | bluechip? |
| 20:34:57 | rasher | t0mas? |
| 20:34:58 | HCl | i'm also aware of that anyone violating gpl |
| 20:35:03 | t0mas | speling.org is just dansk and other weird things I can't even read :P |
| 20:35:11 | HCl | has no problem as long as the original authors of the sourcecode don't have a problem with it |
| 20:35:26 | rasher | t0mas: yeah, I saw it now.. I thought it was more general, sorry :) |
| 20:35:31 | preglow | they're probably just ok because it's major bother taking any action |
| 20:35:34 | preglow | that doesn't mean they like it |
| 20:35:34 | HCl | preglow: bluechip wanted his code in pd, and the whole rockbox crew made a huge deal out of it |
| 20:35:40 | HCl | when it was all bullshit |
| 20:35:48 | HCl | because the code can be both pd and gpl |
| 20:35:57 | preglow | no, i don't think so |
| 20:35:59 | HCl | any modifications on the gpled rockbox version would have to stay gpl. |
| 20:36:02 | t0mas | yes it can.. |
| 20:36:07 | HCl | where anything based on the original pd code can be anything. |
| 20:36:10 | rasher | it *could*, but then you'd have to pd it all |
| 20:36:11 | t0mas | you can adopt code to gpl |
| 20:36:14 | HCl | rasher: no. |
| 20:36:23 | HCl | there would be two copies of the same code. |
| 20:36:24 | HCl | one under gpl |
| 20:36:27 | HCl | one under pd |
| 20:36:28 | t0mas | things changed to rockbox's version would be forced to be GPL |
| 20:36:33 | HCl | any updates on the gpled version |
| 20:36:35 | preglow | don't you feel it's just better keeping everything gpl? |
| 20:36:35 | t0mas | his version can still be pd separate from rockbox |
| 20:36:36 | HCl | would have to stay gpl |
| 20:36:38 | preglow | it's much simpler |
| 20:36:40 | HCl | where anyone can take the pd version |
| 20:36:43 | HCl | and take that. |
| 20:36:45 | | Quit Hornet (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 20:36:47 | rasher | He can not pd "his own version" |
| 20:36:52 | rasher | because it is already gpl |
| 20:36:53 | HCl | yes he can. |
| 20:36:56 | HCl | no. |
| 20:36:56 | rasher | he cannot sublicense |
| 20:37:04 | t0mas | he wrote it |
| 20:37:05 | t0mas | so he can |
| 20:37:10 | HCl | i'm not even going to go into this, seriously. |
| 20:37:22 | HCl | i think you all need to relax XD |
| 20:37:25 | HCl | and with that i go afk |
| 20:37:31 | HCl | cause i seriously think that that licensing stuff |
| 20:37:32 | HCl | is all crap. |
| 20:37:34 | preglow | haha |
| 20:37:34 | HCl | bye :) |
| 20:37:49 | nobby | indeed |
| 20:37:54 | rasher | oh, maybe I'm misunderstanding "his version" |
| 20:37:55 | preglow | yeah, you're allowed to think so, but you're not allowed to just ignore it and tell people it's ok |
| 20:38:20 | nobby | why does the gpl not allow non-gpl stuff in it anyway? |
| 20:38:24 | | Join Stryke` [0] (~Chairman8@resnet-241-86.resnet.UMBC.EDU) |
| 20:38:34 | rasher | it's not really like that |
| 20:38:41 | preglow | nobby: because then it wouldn't be gpl, would it? |
| 20:38:45 | rasher | it just doesn't allow any *additional* restrictions to be put on it |
| 20:38:55 | rasher | you can have BSD licensed code just fine |
| 20:39:04 | HCl | you can take pd code and adopt it into a gpl project. |
| 20:39:09 | HCl | it has no effect on the original licensing. |
| 20:39:13 | preglow | nobby: the whole meaning of something being gpl, is the ensure that certain freedoms are present, if the gpl would allow all stuff of shits to be bundled under it, then it would no longer be able to guarantee that |
| 20:39:19 | HCl | it only has effect on any code based on the GPL version of it. |
| 20:39:25 | HCl | not on code based on the PD version of it. |
| 20:39:33 | rasher | What did bluechip write? |
| 20:39:34 | HCl | if you can't see that, i'm not gonna go into any discussion o.o. |
| 20:39:44 | HCl | some games, some audio filter stuff. |
| 20:39:46 | HCl | archos stuff. |
| 20:40:11 | preglow | of course, you can do whatever you like with pd stuff |
| 20:40:14 | t0mas | yes |
| 20:40:26 | t0mas | so it's no problem copying his code and putting it under GPL for rockbox |
| 20:40:39 | preglow | shouldn't be, no |
| 20:40:42 | t0mas | he can still give his copy away as PD |
| 20:40:50 | preglow | deed |
| 20:40:54 | t0mas | so there is no problem |
| 20:40:56 | HCl | exactly, and that was all i was saying. |
| 20:41:02 | t0mas | (and I really can't type with dvorak) |
| 20:41:02 | rasher | problem would be if his code is derived from gpl code |
| 20:41:05 | t0mas | just tried |
| 20:41:12 | HCl | lol. |
| 20:41:18 | t0mas | rasher: that would be his problem |
| 20:41:19 | t0mas | not ours |
| 20:41:22 | HCl | you can't just switch to dvorak and expect to be able to type in it. |
| 20:41:27 | preglow | if his code was derived from gpl, he had no right to put it in the public domain |
| 20:41:28 | rasher | It most certainly would be our problem |
| 20:41:29 | t0mas | well... I am now |
| 20:41:47 | HCl | www.dvorak.nl |
| 20:41:48 | rasher | because he's releasing code into the pd which he has no right to do so |
| 20:41:53 | t0mas | I did it before... as my basis school (nederlands) had dvorak keyboards |
| 20:41:58 | HCl | rasher: ah, didn't know that |
| 20:42:03 | HCl | t0mas: wow o.o. |
| 20:42:14 | HCl | good basic school. |
| 20:42:19 | t0mas | yeah... |
| 20:42:20 | rasher | well.. *if* it's gpl derived |
| 20:42:21 | | Join Hornet__ [0] (Hornet@S0106000ea62d6f1b.vn.shawcable.net) |
| 20:42:25 | webmind | t0mas, what school was that ?? |
| 20:42:26 | rasher | don't know about that |
| 20:42:32 | t0mas | but I'm rather slow now... as I have to corret a lot |
| 20:42:51 | t0mas | webmind: Wethouder luidens school in Gouda |
| 20:42:57 | webmind | ok |
| 20:42:58 | webmind | cool |
| 20:43:14 | t0mas | yeah... I hated it then... |
| 20:43:27 | webmind | hehe |
| 20:43:28 | webmind | why ? |
| 20:43:29 | t0mas | we had to follow typing lessons... and I had qwerty at home... |
| 20:43:34 | webmind | aah k |
| 20:43:51 | rasher | typing lessons are about the most dull thing EVER |
| 20:44:03 | t0mas | yeah, but in dvorak it's a challenge... |
| 20:44:04 | * | webmind never did one |
| 20:44:16 | webmind | stille type with 5 fingers |
| 20:44:24 | t0mas | and as I see now... I can still type like this.. |
| 20:44:25 | webmind | -e |
| 20:44:29 | t0mas | (on a qwerty keyboard now) |
| 20:44:31 | rasher | well, if you're not used to typing anyway, it hardly makes much difference |
| 20:44:38 | rasher | whether qwerty or dvorak |
| 20:44:48 | t0mas | well... nobody can use my pc now :P |
| 20:45:08 | t0mas | even if my password is set to "password" as I have a qwerty keyboard set to dvorak now :) |
| 20:45:18 | webmind | good to know :) |
| 20:45:31 | nobby | i have no password |
| 20:45:39 | nobby | yet XP insists on asking for it |
| 20:45:45 | HCl | t0mas: i could use it :P |
| 20:45:54 | HCl | i always type dvorak blind on qwerty keyboards |
| 20:46:02 | t0mas | HCl: I am doing now... |
| 20:46:21 | t0mas | but I need the schema with it... |
| 20:46:48 | t0mas | http://www.mwbrooks.com/dvorak/layout.html |
| 20:47:26 | HCl | www.dvorak.nl |
| 20:47:31 | t0mas | but still... I'm far better at qwerty :) |
| 20:47:40 | t0mas | (nice to be able to switch with a hotkey in windows :P) |
| 20:48:43 | rasher | you can do that with gnome :) |
| 20:49:06 | rasher | and kde as well I'd wager |
| 20:49:54 | HCl | t0mas: whats that hotkey? |
| 20:50:10 | HCl | i need to know cause i'm always pressing it by accident and then i suddenly type qwerty which i hate |
| 20:50:27 | t0mas | ghehe... I'll set my laptop to dvorak too :) |
| 20:50:46 | | Quit Hornet_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 20:50:55 | t0mas | HCl: you can set em yourseld |
| 20:50:58 | t0mas | d=f |
| 20:51:02 | HCl | how? |
| 20:51:30 | t0mas | get the language bar on your taskbar |
| 20:51:39 | t0mas | go to "toetsinstellingen" |
| 20:51:47 | HCl | ah |
| 20:51:47 | HCl | got it |
| 20:51:48 | HCl | thanks |
| 20:51:52 | t0mas | ok |
| 20:53:54 | | Quit lolo-laptop ("Client exiting") |
| 20:54:12 | * | rasher updates ircstats |
| 20:55:03 | | Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (~idc-drago@p3EE2DCAB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:56:54 | * | amiconn appears |
| 20:57:02 | HCl | ohno. |
| 20:57:04 | * | [IDC]Dragon too |
| 20:57:09 | amiconn | :) |
| 20:57:16 | HCl | i need to talk to Bagder.. |
| 20:57:34 | [IDC]Dragon | we're not holding you... |
| 20:57:34 | HCl | cause i'm thoroughly confused about the tagdb/rundb now :/ |
| 20:58:04 | [IDC]Dragon | I'm not really up to date, but saw a hash mentioning |
| 20:58:11 | HCl | yea. |
| 20:58:16 | HCl | little improvement for renames |
| 20:58:32 | [IDC]Dragon | we have a CRC routine, could make that public |
| 20:58:50 | amiconn | It's CRC16 only... |
| 20:59:14 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: Did you read about my fat.c fixes / improvements? |
| 20:59:15 | [IDC]Dragon | could be CRC32 as well |
| 20:59:24 | * | amiconn updates the public copy |
| 20:59:42 | [IDC]Dragon | amiconn: not in detail, I only saw you asking Zagor for testing |
| 20:59:55 | amiconn | Hmm. |
| 21:00 |
| 21:00:06 | amiconn | I'm undecided whether to commit this stuff |
| 21:00:17 | [IDC]Dragon | what's wrong? |
| 21:00:20 | | Join matsl [0] (~matsl@1-1-4-2a.mal.sth.bostream.se) |
| 21:00:50 | HCl | is the fix for archos or iriver? |
| 21:00:59 | amiconn | All |
| 21:01:04 | HCl | mk |
| 21:01:09 | HCl | does it need more testing or what? |
| 21:01:11 | HCl | why undecided? |
| 21:01:34 | amiconn | Yes, more testing would be desirable |
| 21:02:03 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: The current add_dir_entry() implementation has bugs (guess who found them!) |
| 21:02:13 | [IDC]Dragon | sis |
| 21:02:15 | rasher | I know! I know! |
| 21:02:35 | amiconn | I fixed that, plus some more fixes |
| 21:02:38 | rasher | best tester ever |
| 21:03:31 | amiconn | (1) DOS shortname generation was slightly off (2) observe dir size limit (not very likely to hit that though) |
| 21:03:40 | amiconn | I also have an improvement |
| 21:04:18 | amiconn | Windows NT derivates can store the case of the name part and the extension part _in a shortname_ |
| 21:05:00 | amiconn | This is what I wondered about very often. WinXP displays 'ajbrec.ajz', but rockbox displayed 'AJBREC.AJZ' |
| 21:05:15 | [IDC]Dragon | I saw you mentining that, yes, very nice |
| 21:05:25 | amiconn | It's an undocumented feature, and my code now supports it for reading |
| 21:05:44 | [IDC]Dragon | where did you find it? |
| 21:05:51 | rasher | Yeah, I have a few of those fileas as well |
| 21:05:54 | HCl | if we understand how it works, wouldn't we be able to write it too? |
| 21:05:59 | amiconn | I googled a lot for FAT related things |
| 21:06:25 | amiconn | One site mentioned that the NTRES field is used to store that info, but did not mention the details |
| 21:06:28 | [IDC]Dragon | ah |
| 21:06:44 | [IDC]Dragon | HCl: we always create longnames, iirc |
| 21:06:53 | HCl | fair enough. |
| 21:07:05 | amiconn | The rest was a simple deal. Created some files with different cases and shortnames on a FAT volume, then used a disk editor to look at the NTRES fields |
| 21:07:25 | [IDC]Dragon | you had to reverse engineer it? |
| 21:07:40 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: (longnames) Yes, we do, except for the dotdirs, where this is prohibited |
| 21:08:48 | [IDC]Dragon | trevmar is back, you saw that? |
| 21:08:56 | amiconn | yup |
| 21:09:08 | [IDC]Dragon | with his strange issues |
| 21:09:08 | amiconn | I think I should mail him |
| 21:09:59 | [IDC]Dragon | I may have an hour or 2 for rockboxing now, if I don't fall asleep |
| 21:10:09 | [IDC]Dragon | any urgent stuff? |
| 21:10:18 | amiconn | Hmm |
| 21:10:35 | amiconn | I have lots of stuff I wnat to start working on :-\ |
| 21:10:38 | [IDC]Dragon | my midterm goal is the barebones rockbox |
| 21:10:59 | [IDC]Dragon | for image 1, to gain rombox space |
| 21:11:21 | amiconn | I tried compiling rockbox with gcc4. Perhaps gcc4 optimises so much more that rombox will magically fit again for some models |
| 21:11:36 | * | [IDC]Dragon starts with a cvs update |
| 21:11:40 | amiconn | The latest additions pushed the v2 over the edge |
| 21:11:48 | HCl | um. |
| 21:11:59 | HCl | i suggest not trying gcc4 for now... |
| 21:12:04 | HCl | i tried it for iriver and it crashed horribly |
| 21:12:14 | amiconn | It crashed? |
| 21:12:18 | HCl | yup. |
| 21:12:18 | amiconn | strange... |
| 21:12:24 | HCl | illinstr at 00000000 |
| 21:12:32 | amiconn | ooopsss |
| 21:12:36 | HCl | there's a compiled rockbox with gcc4 on my ftp |
| 21:12:41 | HCl | but i don't suggest anyone to try it |
| 21:12:43 | HCl | since all it'll do is crash |
| 21:12:45 | amiconn | That sounds 'ill' |
| 21:13:09 | amiconn | Perhaps sh does better. Did you compare code size? |
| 21:13:15 | HCl | i didn't. |
| 21:13:18 | [IDC]Dragon | may be different for th SH |
| 21:13:21 | HCl | let me compare code size |
| 21:13:48 | [IDC]Dragon | the t-shirts are removed from cvs... |
| 21:14:01 | amiconn | Yeah, saw that. I wonder why... |
| 21:14:16 | [IDC]Dragon | space? out of date? |
| 21:14:25 | * | amiconn wants one :) |
| 21:14:33 | rasher | Bagder removed them to reduce the size I think |
| 21:15:13 | [IDC]Dragon | amiconn: how about my MMC USB mode patch? |
| 21:16:07 | [IDC]Dragon | well, you 2GB are waiting, too |
| 21:16:13 | [IDC]Dragon | your |
| 21:16:14 | amiconn | yup :-/ |
| 21:16:49 | HCl | its 1300bytes bigger |
| 21:16:56 | HCl | with gcc3 |
| 21:16:57 | HCl | 4 |
| 21:16:58 | HCl | i mean |
| 21:17:00 | HCl | gcc4 |
| 21:17:00 | rasher | :-O |
| 21:17:19 | amiconn | If someone wants to try my latest fat.patch: amiconn.dyndns.org/fat.patch">http://amiconn.dyndns.org/fat.patch |
| 21:18:04 | preglow | HCl: i kind of figured that |
| 21:18:11 | HCl | why? |
| 21:18:14 | amiconn | preglow: Why? |
| 21:18:29 | preglow | because that's the way gcc always has gone on default optimizing settings |
| 21:18:48 | preglow | code has most of the time gotten bigger and faster |
| 21:19:06 | [IDC]Dragon | amiconn: I tried to load your midi file, is it still there? URL? |
| 21:19:41 | t0mas | arg... I keep on switching T and N on dvorak |
| 21:19:51 | amiconn | amiconn.dyndns.org/Mussorgski%20-%20Night%20on%20Bare%20Mountain.mid">http://amiconn.dyndns.org/Mussorgski%20-%20Night%20on%20Bare%20Mountain.mid |
| 21:20:14 | rasher | t0mas: you mean N and T? |
| 21:20:24 | t0mas | lol |
| 21:20:29 | t0mas | yes |
| 21:20:47 | t0mas | and swinchitg :P |
| 21:21:48 | t0mas | *switching back* |
| 21:22:03 | [IDC]Dragon | amiconn: got it, thanks (but I don't hear anything...) |
| 21:22:40 | amiconn | Huh? |
| 21:23:08 | amiconn | It's playing fine here, both on the PC and the Amiga |
| 21:23:21 | [IDC]Dragon | ah, disabled midi soure in the mixer |
| 21:23:31 | [IDC]Dragon | source |
| 21:23:43 | [IDC]Dragon | I rarely play midi |
| 21:24:26 | [IDC]Dragon | the s/w synth on my onboard sound is really bad |
| 21:25:29 | amiconn | WinXP? Then switch to the "Microsoft GS Wavetable SW Synth" |
| 21:25:45 | [IDC]Dragon | switch where? |
| 21:26:23 | [IDC]Dragon | ah, it's already set |
| 21:26:44 | amiconn | I think that one doesn't sound too bad |
| 21:26:47 | [IDC]Dragon | so M$ is to blame |
| 21:30:07 | rasher | [IDC]Dragon: excellent commit :) |
| 21:30:27 | [IDC]Dragon | thanks, it's a start ;-) |
| 21:35:53 | | Quit Shagnar ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.81 :: www.XLhost.de )") |
| 21:40:05 | | Join Bippy [0] (~d92ba1d5@labb.contactor.se) |
| 21:40:10 | * | amiconn did a similarly trivial commit |
| 21:40:35 | | Join zezayer [0] (~chatzilla@host81-152-218-69.range81-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 21:40:48 | [IDC]Dragon | hey, join the frenzy! |
| 21:42:33 | [IDC]Dragon | the main problem with my "bootbox" project is to setup a makefile |
| 21:42:35 | amiconn | I'm tempted to simply commit the fat patch. |
| 21:42:52 | amiconn | I'll do another little test before |
| 21:45:13 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: Btw, speaking about bootbox and knowing the need for proper charging: For me, it seems the tweaked charging algorithm performs worse than the old. |
| 21:45:14 | | Quit Bippy ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 21:45:40 | [IDC]Dragon | oh, really? |
| 21:46:03 | [IDC]Dragon | it worked for me, but I'm not using the box much atm. |
| 21:46:17 | amiconn | Well, it immedialety starts charging, unlike the old algorithm, but it seems that it stops charging prematurely |
| 21:46:42 | amiconn | I get fairly bad runtimes, even with my new 2500 mAh cells |
| 21:46:47 | [IDC]Dragon | how prematurely? |
| 21:47:49 | t0mas | what's bootbox? (nothing about it in wiki?) |
| 21:49:27 | [IDC]Dragon | not everthing is in wiki... |
| 21:49:57 | t0mas | that's why I asked what it is :) |
| 21:50:00 | [IDC]Dragon | we're short of space for rombox |
| 21:50:23 | [IDC]Dragon | (Archos only issue) |
| 21:51:06 | [IDC]Dragon | because that image is uncompressed, and there's also the compressed Archos image in front of it |
| 21:51:07 | t0mas | ah, I read that somewhere... |
| 21:51:51 | [IDC]Dragon | so bootbox is a stipped-down rockbox, meant to replace the Archos image |
| 21:52:07 | t0mas | ah ok |
| 21:52:17 | [IDC]Dragon | capable of just charging, USB mode, booting |
| 21:52:27 | t0mas | is it possible to flash archos without a booting firmware? |
| 21:52:38 | [IDC]Dragon | ? |
| 21:53:02 | t0mas | do you need a working firmware to flash something in (like on iriver), or is it possible from the pc? |
| 21:53:45 | [IDC]Dragon | you can do it from PC (serial), but need a small hardware mod to enter that mode |
| 21:53:54 | t0mas | ah ok... |
| 21:53:57 | [IDC]Dragon | else, from rockbox |
| 21:54:08 | t0mas | so it is a little dangerous to remove the archos firmware... |
| 21:54:25 | [IDC]Dragon | not for me, I have that mod |
| 21:54:29 | t0mas | ah ok |
| 21:54:31 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: It charges around 4..5 hours at maximum (from empty cells). I'd expect more like 15 hours for a full charge |
| 21:54:37 | t0mas | for me neither... as I don't have an archos... |
| 21:54:48 | [IDC]Dragon | ;-) |
| 21:55:07 | [IDC]Dragon | amiconn: can you report that to Jerry? |
| 21:55:49 | amiconn | Perhaps I should do that log thingy first that he built in for debugging, and send it along |
| 21:58:06 | [IDC]Dragon | sounds fair |
| 21:58:12 | amiconn | Regarding bootbox: Funny enough, I have exactly those archos devices that are capable of running rombox. All those devices I don't have also can't run rombox |
| 21:58:45 | [IDC]Dragon | so you have little motivation for this |
| 21:59:23 | [IDC]Dragon | if bootbox works, I want to change the flash zoo to rombox only |
| 21:59:53 | | Quit zezayer ("Chatzilla 0.9.67 [Firefox 1.0.1/20050311]") |
| 22:00 |
| 22:00:15 | [IDC]Dragon | and we can freely distribute the starter image, since it contains 100% our code |
| 22:00:30 | amiconn | Hmm. |
| 22:00:38 | [IDC]Dragon | my webspace expires this month |
| 22:00:44 | amiconn | I know |
| 22:01:00 | amiconn | My old page does expire as well |
| 22:01:07 | amiconn | ...but I have a new one |
| 22:01:28 | [IDC]Dragon | I get a new 10 MB, but don't know yet where and how |
| 22:02:45 | [IDC]Dragon | and am this −−><−− close to switch to 1&1 |
| 22:02:49 | * | amiconn has 200 MB and an own domain :) |
| 22:02:57 | [IDC]Dragon | woot |
| 22:03:19 | [IDC]Dragon | dyndns? ;-) |
| 22:03:24 | amiconn | My content is in urgent need of a mega-update though |
| 22:03:27 | * | rasher has "unlimited" space and own domain |
| 22:03:43 | [IDC]Dragon | unlimited sounds impossible |
| 22:04:03 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon: That's only for occasional use, as it's not always up. |
| 22:04:13 | [IDC]Dragon | then shell out some ftp accounts! ;-) |
| 22:04:15 | rasher | well, not unlimited, but limited by the size of the harddisk in the server :) |
| 22:04:16 | amiconn | It's the fastest way to publish small files though |
| 22:05:56 | * | rasher tries installing phpsysinfo on a windows xp box |
| 22:06:04 | rasher | uh, nt2000 |
| 22:07:51 | amiconn | uh-oh. |
| 22:08:12 | * | amiconn just noticed that he didn't update his site for over 2 years |
| 22:08:50 | amiconn | lazinessssssss...................... |
| 22:11:00 | | Quit nobby () |
| 22:22:03 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 22:32:38 | HCl | what does ymmv mean.. |
| 22:33:34 | rasher | your milage may vary |
| 22:33:49 | HCl | aha o.o. |
| 22:33:54 | * | HCl blinks. |
| 22:34:15 | rasher | mileage |
| 22:42:46 | HCl | okay |
| 22:51:29 | preglow | haha |
| 22:51:34 | * | preglow doesn't have a site |
| 22:51:53 | preglow | not anything with notable content, at least |
| 22:52:37 | rasher | mine's pretty dull as well |
| 22:53:17 | preglow | i've got a random index.html experiment i did in mason, and that's pretty much that |
| 22:54:04 | HCl | i have a site. |
| 22:54:07 | HCl | :3 |
| 22:59:43 | * | HCl needs to talk to bagder |
| 22:59:58 | Bagder | talk my son |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:01 | Bagder | ;-) |
| 23:00:01 | HCl | woot. |
| 23:00:02 | HCl | :P |
| 23:00:10 | HCl | yes um, its hard to phrase the question. |
| 23:00:21 | HCl | but i was sort of wondering where we stand about the database about now o.o. |
| 23:02:09 | Bagder | I was thinking if we perhaps should go back and consider one single db |
| 23:02:16 | Bagder | :-) |
| 23:02:32 | HCl | then it'd be completely impossible to do a db upgrade without having the old one |
| 23:02:43 | HCl | i hope you understand what consequences that would have o.o |
| 23:02:46 | HCl | i don't quite remember who |
| 23:02:53 | HCl | but *someone* had an extreme objective against that. |
| 23:02:59 | Bagder | I did |
| 23:03:01 | rasher | that was Bagder |
| 23:03:02 | rasher | :) |
| 23:03:03 | HCl | oh. |
| 23:03:03 | amiconn | lol |
| 23:03:07 | HCl | you changed your mind? o.o. |
| 23:03:07 | Bagder | but the thing is |
| 23:03:15 | Bagder | all this new stuff is equally bad |
| 23:03:19 | Bagder | in my mind |
| 23:03:33 | Bagder | so whereever I turn, I don't see a design I like |
| 23:03:46 | HCl | i guess, i'm always open for other suggestions |
| 23:03:56 | Bagder | so, I'm continuing thinking |
| 23:03:57 | HCl | though i will point out problems we would have with certain designs.. |
| 23:04:23 | Bagder | and I'm all for starting with the existing suggestion |
| 23:04:37 | Bagder | we can always fix and improve things later |
| 23:04:41 | HCl | so what we discussed this afternoon |
| 23:04:49 | HCl | with the filenames -> tagdb/rundb id |
| 23:04:50 | HCl | ? |
| 23:05:14 | HCl | i outlined it on the wiki a bit, but i'm scared to mention it because it closely resembles my first design :( |
| 23:05:20 | * | HCl goes to his mewing cat :/ |
| 23:05:55 | rasher | cats :( |
| 23:05:58 | * | rasher sneezes |
| 23:07:28 | HCl | my soft and fluffy alarm clock :3 |
| 23:08:38 | HCl | but yea, we can always improve later |
| 23:11:00 | HCl | okay. |
| 23:11:05 | HCl | oh wait, misread :x |
| 23:11:10 | * | HCl waits for reply :x |
| 23:13:25 | | Join asdsd_ [0] (~asdsd@h-67-100-31-38.miatflad.dynamic.covad.net) |
| 23:14:32 | | Quit asdsd_ (Client Quit) |
| 23:20:44 | | Quit [IDC]Dragon () |
| 23:27:58 | | Join amiconn_ [0] (~jens@pD95D12A1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:28:10 | | Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.) |
| 23:28:10 | | Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (~jens@pD95D12A1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:36:53 | * | HCl prods Bagder one last time, otherwise he'll just assume that we're going with the current design for now, till something better comes along |
| 23:37:14 | Bagder | sure go ahead, I'm a bit busy |
| 23:37:19 | HCl | okies. |
| 23:57:29 | | Join ehntoo [0] (noclue2@24.177.161.77.up.mi.chartermi.net) |
icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).