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#rockbox log for 2005-04-29

00:00:01eVoxits hilarious
00:00:04HCl :P
00:00:15oddh/o !?
00:00:23eVoxhold on to something
00:00:24oddthat's a shorthand term i've never seen before
00:00:48eVoxwhat about c2c?
00:00:51oddcare to chat
00:00:53oddthat's a classic
00:01:05*HCl prods people
00:01:08HCljust for reference
00:01:14eVoxmost people out of irc dont know it tho
00:01:19HClwe don't have a dropdown box select thing in rockbox, do we?
00:01:21oddyeah it's definitely an irc thing
00:01:25eVox - computerboy
00:01:29oddand more specifically, a lame cyber-seeker thing
00:01:39eVox111mb .mov
00:01:52oddHCl: you never answered my question about where the donations go
00:02:12preglowHCl: no, we'll need someone making a lot of cool widgets
00:02:34HClpreglow: mhm.
00:02:39preglowlike sliders for my eq!
00:02:43HClyup :p
00:02:43eVoxis there a built in menu on the 120 with horizontally scrolling icons?
00:02:52HClpreglow: add it to the todolist.
00:03:05oddactually i just thought of some way i can contribute despite my lack of programming skills
00:03:21oddif you guys need illustration/gfx/skins i'm a bit of a photoshop demigod
00:03:27oddnot to toot my own horn or anything ;x
00:03:41eVoxcan i toot it
00:03:45preglowbetter than tooting someone else's horn
00:03:47*odd slaps
00:04:13eVoxis there a built in menu on the 120 with large horizontally scrolling icons?
00:04:15*HCl yawns
00:04:19eVoxb/c i found one before
00:04:31*HCl goes to work on his editor idea..
00:04:49oddeVox: that's the DB browse screen
00:05:00oddwhen selecting which criterion to use for browsing
00:05:21eVoxi never saw it before when it was working
00:05:45oddbbiab, freshdirect delivery
00:05:56eVoxhmm broken 120s make good hand warmers
00:06:13odddon't warm it too much, you'll damage the components that are still working
00:08:28eVoxno its doing the warming
00:09:06eVoxactive@ takes foreverrrr
00:09:39oddyou're scanning a 20gb drive via USB1.1 sector-by-sector... you shouldn't be surprised ;p
00:09:58eVoxi cancled it
00:10:02eVoxill run it overnight
00:10:06oddi'd put the iriver aside somewhere it can keep cool (preferably with moving air around it) and set it aside for a couple hours
00:10:12eVoxfor now im just gonna keep running xcopy untill it gets all the songs
00:10:42oddok bbs, delivery is here
00:11:04oddyou're a lot better off making an image than using xcopy ;x
00:14:27 Join Camilo [0] (
00:14:31*HCl starts on databox, the frontend of the searchengine :)
00:16:53rasherodd: The harddisk doesn't overheat
00:17:20rasherI've run it for >5 hours with constant disk access and cpu at 120MHz without it blowing up
00:17:28rashersitting at room temperature
00:18:16rasherand eVox: to get the large horizontally scrolling icons you need to have built the iriver-song-db
00:18:20rasherand turn on dbscan
00:19:09HClrasher: he was talking about his broken iriver >.>
00:19:14HCli think
00:19:18HClor was that evox
00:19:30HClmixing people up
00:19:37*HCl needs sleep :)
00:19:39rasherI thin kI have it right
00:21:57eVoxare you all nerds?
00:22:32preglowdepends on what you mean
00:22:54HCl :P
00:23:14*HCl goes to design a deterministic automaton for databox
00:23:42eVoxcough nerd
00:24:03HClpff, you mean smart person :P
00:24:34eVoxany of you ever heard of FIRST robotics?
00:25:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:25:18HClwait. i have a tool for deterministic automatons..
00:25:42 Quit Harpy (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
00:26:56preglowsomeone donate to the preglow-needs-his-fridge-stocked-with-beer-at-all-times fund
00:27:02preglowit's vital to the future of rockbox!
00:30:34*HCl finds the course that explained how to use the tool to generate states..
00:34:48 Quit ismi ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:42:51eVoxim ford as buck
00:42:55eVoxim gonna go take a nap, pce all
00:43:15 Quit eVox ()
00:44:48preglowi nailed the bugger
00:45:15*preglow does the no more big assembly files dance
00:47:25MoosCamarohi guys
00:47:49MoosCamaroalways working ;)
00:48:14MoosCamaroi read HCl works
00:49:09MoosCamaroHCl: you're efficient
00:49:20MoosCamaropreglow too
00:49:44oddyeah, they are teh pwn
00:53:07 Join ferenczy [0] (
00:57:33 Quit ferenczy (Client Quit)
00:58:44HClgah, this is annoying...
00:58:54HCli'm having trouble with my state generation tool xD
00:59:02HCland i need it for my editor.
01:00:29*HCl takes a different approach.
01:01:13HClno wait x.x
01:01:19*HCl really needs this state stuff :/
01:04:48CamiloHCI... why not just draw a graph and have an enum of states?
01:05:26HClbecause that graph is unreasonably huge to do by hand.
01:05:55Camilowhat's it for?
01:07:07HClsearchengine frontend.
01:07:13HClthis shouldn't be this hard >.<
01:07:34Camiloit doesn't sound like it should be complex
01:09:40*HCl goes to work bottom up
01:09:41HCli know
01:09:43HClbut i suck at math.
01:11:56*HCl got it :3
01:15:42HClor not :/
01:15:48*HCl needs sleep..
01:18:15HClits all about making nondeterministic automatons deterministic
01:18:28HClwhich can cause a state explosion sometimes
01:19:36HCli'm finally starting to get it more concrete
01:26:51MoosCamaroit' time to bed
01:27:02MoosCamarogood night all
01:27:59MoosCamarogood luck for your plugin works
01:29:17 Part MoosCamaro
01:31:20*preglow catches the digital flow again
01:32:15HCl :)
01:32:21*HCl is finally getting it right too
01:32:23HCli think :)
01:32:50HCloddddd functions :p
01:33:27*ashridah mutters things about 'his kingdom for a non-deterministic computer'
01:34:34HCl :p
01:35:20 Quit cYmen ("zZz")
01:36:05ashridahbeing able to turn my current software-eng assignment into a polynomial-complex problem would be VERY nice right about now.
01:38:19 Quit Aison` (SendQ exceeded)
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01:44:15*HCl is actually getting somewhere with his editor, without having to build a graph of states
01:47:43preglowand i'm cleaning out the old arm assembler
01:47:51preglowi was hoping to commit this tonight, but looks like that wont happen
01:48:48preglowahh, it's starting to get light outside
01:48:50preglowi love summertime
01:54:54HCli'm definately not awake......
01:55:12*HCl found himself adding things to the default section of a switch statement...
01:55:17HCli mean, adding cases..
01:55:25HCli gotta go sleep. yup.
01:56:07oddnite HCl
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01:58:46HCli said i have to go to sleep, i didn't say i was going to ;x
01:58:56*HCl is writing a mix of pseudo and real code
02:00:24HClnow i go to bed ;x
02:00:40HCl(gotten to the point where all thats left is pseudocode to implement, and i'll do that tomorrow)
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02:25:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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10:25:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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10:36:06bobTHCmornin' folks !
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11:10:35HClno rockbox for me today, heh
11:20:50 Quit DMJC ("Leaving")
11:25:35webmindso no music ?
11:27:30HClno, no parser design today ;x
11:27:47HCli slept horridly due to "parser parser parser PARSER!!!" thoughts >.<
11:28:05HCland ofcourse i have to write down better ideas i get cause otherwise i would've forgotten them in the morning.
11:28:16HClso i seriously need to relax and do some other stuff.
11:28:24*HCl thinks he'll play golf on his xbox with some music...
11:28:27tedboersomething similar happens to me.. "beer beer beer BEER!!!"
11:28:42tedboerbut that's before going to bed
11:28:59tedboerit actually helps sleeping ;-)
11:29:09HClmy flatmate is feeling horrid too
11:29:20HClbut he's feeling worse than me
11:29:34HCli just slept crappily, and now i'm too awake to sleep, even though i need more sleep :/
11:35:00Rick<HCl> i slept horridly due to "parser parser parser PARSER!!!" thoughts >.<
11:35:02RickI feel your pain
11:35:30HCl :x
12:13:21 Join MoosCamaro [0] (
12:13:38MoosCamarohello all
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12:25:26***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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12:29:15oddtedboer: what horrible news =\
12:29:21oddinformation wants to be free. why are they keeping it in chains?
12:30:02oddthe collapse of the information/content publishing industry is gonna really brutal =\
12:30:07oddgonna be*
12:30:25oddi'd give it another 10-20 years before it's completely decimated
12:30:29oddno longer
12:30:59oddhard to imagine what content and media will be like then
12:33:20HClmicrosoft/government controlled
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12:38:58DMJCwhen information/content collapses america will be faced with some hard choices
12:39:07DMJCa lot of the US economy is built on that
12:49:47t0mas<HCl> i slept horridly due to "parser parser parser PARSER!!!" thoughts >.< <−− I had the chemics chemics chemics night...
12:49:58t0masAs I had an end-test today...
12:50:12t0masbut it was cancelled half way though by the fire alert :P
12:50:16*HCl makes an futile attempt to try to code..
12:51:05HClan impossibility with tv on.
12:52:47 Quit tedboer (Remote closed the connection)
13:03:09*HCl gives up on trying to code, simply hasn't gotten enough sleep for that
13:07:15*HCl goes to make lunch..
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14:25:28***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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15:42:19HCltook a nap, just woke up
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15:44:08bobTHChehe, a good afternoon always began with a good nap
15:45:09bobTHCwhat those fucking acronyms ?
15:45:43bobTHCmhm ? ;)
15:46:25HClits an agreement.
15:46:50bobTHCi'm kidding
15:47:16HClk :p
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16:02:16 Part bobdbob
16:11:35 Join preglow [0] (
16:14:14preglowi will never understand this assembler mumbo jumbo
16:14:44rasheryou seem to be doing alright
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16:16:47 Join Slasheri [0] (
16:19:21preglowmy all assembler imdct_l is slower than the one that's in now
16:19:22preglowso no
16:19:29preglowbut i suspect that's because of the unrolled windowing
16:20:14amiconnI also had to trash an optimisation idea I tried yesterday
16:20:23amiconn(MMC reading)
16:21:24amiconnAlthough it was faster than the current route (about 10%), it had very unpredictable yield() behaviour.
16:23:19SlasheriHi, interesting project indeed. I have ihp-140 and have tried rockbox cvs on it. Maybe i could do some coding if i had more time
16:25:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:29:22 Quit Patr3ck_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:33:25preglowSlasheri: sounds great
16:33:32preglowwe all need more time, heh
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16:34:12preglowthe hell i'm trashing this
16:34:22 Quit bobTHC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:34:32preglowit's probably faster as soon as i find out how to do the windowing without having to unroll it
16:36:09preglowit seems code size is very, very important with h1x0
16:36:39HClprobably due to the instruction cache..
16:38:25 Join bobTHC [0] (
16:38:45preglownot just probably
16:38:50preglowit's most certainly because of that
16:38:55HCl :P
16:39:36preglowi'm thinking of trying out the other imdct method if this doesn't work out
16:39:41preglowsince that's very loop friendly
16:40:15preglowit also demands that your brain is very good at register allocation
16:45:36HClpractice makes perfect preglow :p
16:45:50preglowi don't have the time to even try
16:45:53preglowi'll try it nevertheless
16:45:56preglowbut i really shouldn't
16:46:07HCli know the feeling :p
16:46:19t0masSlasheri? How's your perl?
16:46:41preglowanyway, a friend will be visiting for a week's time, so probably wont do much the coming week anyway
16:47:45MoosCamarorockbox cry
16:48:01MoosCamarohi preglow
16:48:01Slasherit0mas: Hmm, at the moment i have used perl a few years. Mainly for shell-programming, databases and web sites
16:48:31Slasherihmm ;D
16:48:32*t0mas is really bad at perl... and I don't really have time to learn it...
16:48:46t0masbut I need some conversion script in perl
16:48:55t0masfor a dictionary plugin in rockbox...
16:48:56Slasheriokay, it's not quite difficult
16:49:41t0masthere is an opensource dictionary...
16:49:54t0masand I want to convert it to "rockbox format"
16:50:40SlasheriHmm, maybe I could take a look at it
16:50:52SlasheriIt should be quite straightforward to do
16:51:13t0masthat "rockbox format" is invented by preglow and me... but I still have to document it :)
16:51:40Slasheridocumentation would really help to start ;)
16:51:54t0maswell it's pretty simple
16:52:09t0masyou have a binary index like this:
16:52:15t0masstruct word {
16:52:21t0mas char word[MAXWORDLEN];
16:52:24t0mas long offset;
16:52:31preglowt0mas: don't count on that being the finally format, it's really, really simple
16:52:41*HCl 's brain is finally getting untired a bit and up to speed :)
16:52:49preglowbut at least you'll have fast on disk seeking
16:52:58t0maspreglow: it shouldn't be very difficult to change a working script
16:53:43preglowno, but when you change the format to not always use the same space for all words (which is kind of wasteful), you'll have to work out another seek mechanism
16:53:50preglowsearch mechanism, i mean
16:56:06 Join ismi [0] (
16:57:03t0masbut this is by far the fastest way...
16:57:47t0masor we would make it plain text... like this: "word offset" so one line per word...
16:58:08t0masbut that will kill searching I guess?
16:58:27t0masas I can't jump to lines with the rockbox file interface?
17:00:00HClyou want to search for words..?
17:00:17HClyou'll have to have a fixed wordsize if you want to enable searching.
17:00:27t0masyes, that's what we have now
17:02:13 Join tuco [0] (
17:03:40preglowHCl: not really
17:03:47preglowHCl: you can do linear searching :P
17:04:00tucohi, is the goal of a dictionary a dictionary-plugin, or as a tool like those used in cell phones?
17:04:07HCleven then, you'd have to compare every letter for end of string (0)
17:04:32HCli guess you can store the string length
17:04:46preglowHCl: you can also have a 'new entry' marker and do "binary" search
17:05:13preglowcalculate a approximate offset from the first letter
17:05:19preglowsearch for the new entry marker
17:05:22preglowthen start comparing
17:05:35preglowif it's not right, skip forward or backward by some calculated amount
17:06:16t0mastuco: a plugin like those on nokia phones
17:06:18preglowsooner or later you'll have to start doing a linear search, though
17:06:57preglowmorse code input!
17:07:19tucot0mas, sounds nice.
17:07:44t0masyes, but I'm not a really great coder ;) so it meight take some time
17:08:27tucoa good exercise in tree building anyway
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17:11:46preglowi also wish i knew how the emac unit is pipelined
17:12:10HCllinus might know
17:15:23preglowyes, indeed
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18:02:45*HCl is making soo many typos
18:05:35t0masalready pre-drunk for the party tonight?
18:12:14HClsevere lack of sleep.
18:12:24HCli have these flatmates that can never stop making noise
18:12:32HCland assume everyone will be able to sleep through noise.
18:19:33*preglow kisses his door
18:25:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:45:33webmindpreglow, wtf ?
18:45:44webmindsounds proof ?
18:46:02preglownot really
18:46:04preglowbut it does a good job
18:46:10preglowmy flatmates are really quite anyways
18:46:14preglowi'm probably the most noisy guy here
18:46:24preglowsince i constantly play music
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20:16:38HClmy editor parser seems to be working at least partially.
20:23:31webmindpartially parsing
20:23:50webmindid3 tag editor ?
20:25:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:30:42HClno, searchengine-query-editor :)
20:31:06HClfor now its going to be implemented as an extension on tokentool
20:31:15HClwhere tokentool gets smarter rather than raw
20:31:27HClthen i'll put it in plugin form
20:32:21oddhow many keyboard-like input functions are there?
20:32:50oddif there's a search engine and a tag editor that's 2 right there...
20:33:17oddi'd simply suggest using a single keyboard module-type-thing for anything that might need one
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20:48:20 Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
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21:12:11rasherThere's one of those - used for rename and something else which escapes me.
21:15:22 Quit TCK (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
21:16:01rashersaving playlists, possibly
21:19:16HClmy editor works :d
21:19:25HClodd: we already have that
21:19:39HClodd: i'm wanting to avoid using the keyboard when possible though, only use it when inputting strings.
21:19:49webmindHCl, sounds odd
21:19:55webmindthink i need to update :)
21:19:57HClwhat does?
21:20:03webmindthe searchengine query thing
21:20:08HCloh :p
21:20:25HCli don't think its odd o.o
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21:24:23webmindwould be bad since you code on it :)
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21:49:02*HCl sighs, slaps his code.
21:51:48preglowbetter rund indent on it before you work on it again, then
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22:09:25 Part Shadey-Shade
22:11:12HClpreglow: wha?
22:11:21HClyea, i haven't fixed the tabs yet :/
22:11:32HCli need a proper aspell rule to format code the way rockbox wants it..
22:14:10preglowi think my code is pretty rockbox friendly as it is, mostly
22:18:07HClvim automatically inserts tabs..
22:18:13HCli need to get it to not to...
22:18:23preglow:set expandtabs
22:19:02amiconntabs are fugly
22:19:16preglownah, i like them, if they're used well
22:19:32preglowwell = nexer mix tabs with spaces
22:19:39HClpreglow: ah, thanks.
22:19:44HClpreglow: how can i set the tabwidth?
22:19:46HCli want it to be 4
22:19:52preglowHCl: set tabwidth=4
22:19:55HClthank you :p
22:20:50preglowthen do a :%s/\t/ /g
22:20:53preglowand you're set
22:21:40HClset pastetoggle=<F12>
22:21:43*HCl nods
22:21:45preglowamiconn: i like being able to adjust indent size to 4 with other peoples code as well, and that just isn't easily possible if they've used spaces :/
22:21:50*HCl finally configures his vim properly.
22:21:54HClnow i need syntax highlighting too.
22:22:19preglowset syntax=on
22:22:31HClunknown option tabwidth
22:22:44preglowi'm sorry
22:23:19HClset expandtabs doesn't work either ;x
22:23:38preglowvim has tab completion
22:23:38HClok :p
22:23:51HClfinally, my vim looks so much better
22:23:55webmindHCl, have you done 'set et' ?
22:23:55HClwith syntax highlighting
22:23:58HClwhats that?
22:24:15webmindmakes a tab of size 4, 4 spaces, and not a real tab
22:24:26HClyea, thats expandtab :)
22:24:32webmindah ok
22:24:50HClthis is *so* much easier on my eyes
22:24:54HClwith syntax higlighting
22:24:54HCl :)
22:25:13webmindonyl thing I need to fix on that is that it makes comments dark blue
22:25:16webmindwhich is unreadable
22:25:30webmindwhere do you edit that again ?
22:25:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:25:40preglowset colorscheme=koehler
22:25:47HCl :P
22:26:04HClpreglow: unknown option XD
22:26:12preglowtab complete....
22:26:23HClcolorscheme isn't known :x
22:27:09preglowperhaps that's a gvim thing
22:27:38crwlno, colorscheme works with "standard" vim
22:27:48 Join Ka_ [0] (
22:28:22preglowof course
22:28:25preglowit isn't a 'set' command
22:29:02webmindpreglow, hprrid scheme imho :)
22:29:12preglowit's ok ;)
22:29:36preglowit sucked badly in vim
22:29:36HClyay for elflord
22:30:02HCli don't like the bright white in elflord though :/
22:30:10HClwhere can i find a list of colorschemes..
22:30:16preglowelflord is nice
22:30:31HCli want the bright white for if/then etc different..
22:31:31amiconn*white* text? I prefer working on a white background...
22:32:42webmindamiconn, yikes
22:32:46*HCl made his own colorscheme based on elflord which is great :)
22:32:49 Join Strath [0] (
22:32:57preglowamiconn: white background? are you mad?
22:33:07preglowit hurts my eyes, it does
22:33:19preglowi customize everything i can customize to use a black background
22:33:20webminddark semi-transparant background.. light colored text
22:33:22preglowfar easier on the eyes
22:33:22amiconnNope. White background, black or dark coloured text
22:33:39webmindblack on white only for paper
22:33:59webmindor any other reflective media
22:34:26preglowi agree
22:34:38preglowi can't abide it on a screen, makes my eyes want to bleed
22:34:51*webmind prefers not to look into lamps to much
22:35:36webmindadvantage by reflextive media is that it's reflected light.. and much easier on the eyes
22:40:11 Quit StrathAFK (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:43:30webmindhmm desert theme is nice
22:43:42HClonly now that i got the tabs out
22:43:46HCli can see what a mess my code is
22:46:19 Quit lolo-laptop ("Client exiting")
22:47:24HCldoes anyone know whether vim will convert tabs to spaces if i resave it?
22:47:53HClok, it doesn.t
22:48:42 Join MoosCamaro [0] (
22:50:50 Quit Camilo ("Chatzilla 0.9.67 [Mozilla rv:1.8b2/20050404]")
22:54:02 Part MoosCamaro
22:55:07 Join MoosCamaro [0] (
22:59:39 Join muesli- [0] (
23:05:05HClBagder: awake?
23:05:30HCli need to know the proper spot for an search query generator, that will share code with what will be a plugin soon..
23:17:13 Join muesli_ [0] (
23:18:42HClhey muesli_
23:22:57 Quit muesli_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23:23:06*HCl goes to find his notes...
23:33:55 Join muesli_ [0] (
23:34:06*HCl prods amiconn
23:34:10HClwhatcha hmpfing about?
23:34:51amiconnThinking about a clean way to incorporate [IDC]Dragon's "USB-before-mount" ptach
23:35:01preglownothing beats retalialating with loud music
23:35:13amiconn...without cluttering main.c too much
23:35:14HClwhats usb-before-mount ?
23:35:54amiconnCheck USB connection and go into USB mode if detected before even trying to mount the disk(s)
23:36:05amiconn(1) It's cleaner
23:36:06HClsounds useful.
23:36:32HCloh amiconn
23:36:37HCloh wait.
23:36:44HClnah, i gotta fix up some loose ends
23:36:50amiconn(2) (more important!) For Ondio, thgis would allow to leave an MMC in theslot if USB is connected at boot, and access the card from the PC
23:36:51HClbut in a bit, think you can test my new searchquery editor?
23:37:07HCluse as cardreader :)
23:37:28amiconnYes. You can do that anyway, but there are some peculiarities
23:37:46amiconnMMC knows 2 operating modes, MMC mode and SPI mode
23:38:10amiconnThe USB->MMC bridge uses MMC mode, while the SH1 (has to) use SPI mode
23:38:37amiconnA card always powers up in MMC mode, and can be switched to SPI mode by a command
23:38:55amiconnThe thing is, you can't switch back without power cycling the card
23:39:14HClaha.. o.o
23:39:23HClyou're losing me slightly, but i think i got it.
23:39:28amiconnSo if rockbox accessed the card, you have to pull it and put it back in order to read it from the PC
23:40:22amiconnIf archos had implemented a transistor to switch the MMC power, things would be much nicer...
23:40:24 Quit muesli- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:41:33rasherthat'd be too easy
23:42:02amiconnFortunately the internal flash memory, while being controlled like an MMC card, has an additional reset pin
23:42:18amiconnWould be too difficult to pull that ;)
23:44:02 Quit Harpy (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
23:45:59HClamiconn: willing to test a thing for me...? you have a database and the searchengine plugin right..?
23:51:34 Join stripwax [0] (
23:53:46amiconnmrf. Taht duznt werk
23:58:42*amiconn is stupid

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