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#rockbox log for 2005-05-10

00:04:45 Quit tvelocity[away] ("Leaving")
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00:26:11 Quit Sucka ("a bird in the bush is worth two in your house")
00:30:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:46:54 Join austriancoder [0] (~austrianc@
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01:09:48 Part MoosCamaro
01:44:51 Join Adity1 [0] (
01:45:00HClhi :3
01:45:10Adity1hey HCl
01:45:29Adity1I cant get my damn mouse to work with linux
01:45:35Adity1wireless.. *sigh*
01:45:37HClah o.o
01:45:58Adity1how do you print incoming mouse data?
01:46:05HClcat /dev/psaux?
01:46:09Adity1I remember there is a command to do that
01:46:13Adity1ah.. I think thats it.. thanks
01:47:12Adity1definitely not working
01:48:04HCllinux can be such a beep to setup properly
01:48:11HCland people tend to blame it on hw manufacturers
01:55:24Adity1think I foundmy problem
01:55:31Adity1thing was looking at /dev/mouse
01:55:40Adity1when it was really supposed to look at /dev/input/mice
01:55:43preglowwell, it is a hw manufacturer problem if you look at it one way
01:55:54Adity1its usually not
02:02:14HCllinux is just mostly oss software
02:02:17Adity1hmm this should do it
02:02:22HCland though oss people can generally code okish
02:02:35HClthey're terrible at user interface design and userfriendlyness.
02:02:40HCllike me :p
02:02:44HCl*points at databox*
02:02:51Adity1hence.. the monstrosity that is GIMP
02:02:51HClbut at least i'm aware that its cruddy
02:02:58preglowthat applies to most coders
02:03:01HClthe interface of gimp sucks
02:03:02preglownot just oss people
02:03:03HClbut honestly
02:03:05HClgimp is great
02:03:08Adity1Hcl, I can design interface and such if you want..
02:03:08HClaside from the interface.
02:03:10zewhats wrong with gimp's interface?
02:03:13Adity1thats what I do most of the time anyways
02:03:14preglowthe interface of gimp isn't that bad
02:03:16Adity1ze: it sucks?
02:03:24zeAdity1: that doesn't say whats wrong with it
02:03:37HClits not very practical with all the tiny windows
02:03:44HClrather than using one big one and using docking windows in there.
02:03:53Adity1I find it annoying how everything is hidden
02:04:02Adity1photoshop is like the best one ever
02:04:04HCland its tricky to even save a certainfile
02:04:04zei hate one big window apps
02:04:07Adity1you don't have to search for shit
02:04:08zelike the way photoshop is
02:04:11HClcause you have to click it and select from a menu etc
02:04:13zeits just a bunch of wasted space
02:04:23zeblocking other apps that i'll want to use in conjuction
02:04:32Adity1like what ze?
02:04:46zelike my irssi term where i can do math to calculate dimensions or whatever
02:05:06zeor a term where i can run other commandline image-processing apps
02:05:07zeor whatever
02:05:16Adity1I have been using photoshop for about 4 years now.. never found it annoying.. its nice that I dont have to worry about 20 dialogs
02:05:26zewell thats you on windows
02:05:33zeyou're used to that limited operating paradigm
02:05:41Adity1sure.. w/e
02:05:43zewindows pisses me off every time i use it, cause everything gets in the way of everything else
02:06:01HClwhy can't we just agree that people have different needs? :P
02:06:03Adity1w/e you say ze.. I am tired of arguing with one-sided people
02:06:04zei'm used to sloppy focus and non-auto window raising
02:06:13*HCl shivers at sloppy focus
02:06:14Adity1I use both linux and windows
02:06:17zeand i can do stuff so much faster like that
02:06:24preglowyou're not very dual sided either here
02:06:33preglowi'm off before this evolves to a flame fest
02:06:37Adity1and I am telling you.. windows is good for design.. linux is good for programming/servers etc..
02:06:41HCli'm with ya preglow
02:06:44HCli need to sleep anyways
02:06:58*HCl goes to pet his kitty
02:07:00 Quit preglow ("lol")
02:07:10*Adity1 hurls a bucket of napalm at HCl
02:07:11*HCl just goes afk though, not poof :p
02:07:13zehow about how hydrogen has it
02:07:15*HCl eats it.
02:07:18Adity1hmm.. now where did tat match box go..
02:07:21HClafk :p
02:07:24Adity1ah there it is.
02:07:29zeit can be one-window ala photoshop or multi-window ala gimp
02:07:33zeand you can switch it in the prefs
02:08:09zethat way you can use what you like
02:08:11Adity1thats not the main problem ze.. there are just too many dialogs in GIMP.. that could have been organized much better
02:08:30zebut honestly i don't see any logical reason to have things in one window like that, since it just needs subwindows for everything anyway
02:08:36zewell there's no fewer dialogs in photoshop
02:08:49zethey're just subwindows of the main one
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02:09:17 Join tvelocity [0] (
02:09:26zeand at least gimp's can dock together as of >=2.0 or whatever
02:09:46zethe way i got mine i've got 4 windows when i've got 1 image open...
02:09:47HClze: the benefit is that you can raise them on top of other windows all at once
02:09:50Adity1have you ever used Photoshop CS?
02:10:04zea group of dialogs on the left, a group on the right, the toolbox, and the image window
02:10:09Adity1you can move each part and organize them in palletes.. whichever way you want it
02:10:17zeHCl: so group them via your WM and you can too
02:10:30HClum. i'm not sure how to do that :p
02:10:30zeHCl: though personally that'd just annoy me, i like to raise a window only when i need to
02:10:34Adity1I dont want to do extra shit
02:10:39HCli like to have all the toolwindows
02:10:39Adity1I want things to just work..
02:10:42HClof something i'm editing
02:10:45Adity1and windows lets me do that
02:10:46Adity1so eh
02:10:59Adity1I should say photoshop
02:11:07Adity1because I have nothing against linux
02:11:08Adity1just gimp..
02:11:12zewell see, i guess thats where we differ
02:11:21HCli like gimp
02:11:26austriancoderdsoes anybody know, if linus started to write code to work with audiosettings?
02:11:28HCli haven't used it in ages though
02:11:30zei like things to just do what i tell it to and not make assumptions about what i want it to do
02:11:32HCland the windows port is just crap
02:11:45*HCl doesn't even know whether his tablet is supported in linux
02:11:54HCllinux is useless to me while it can't do 802.1x
02:11:59zeHCl: i've heard the windows port of gimp is pretty decent in recent times
02:12:02austriancoderi got now a working i2c interface and tuner seems to work.. now i am hacking uda1380 code to enabel analog input
02:12:14HClze: maybe, last version i've used was 1.3, i think
02:12:18HClaustriancoder: nice
02:12:27Adity1what in fucking hell..
02:12:30zeHCl: and there's a patch for it that gives it photoshop's one-window style deal, so it doesn't flood the taskbar
02:12:33HClaustriancoder: any progress on making it possible to record from radio?
02:12:39Adity1slack wont see my internet connection
02:12:52HCl"see" your internet connection?
02:13:08HClyou mean network card?
02:13:09Adity1as in .. its not connecting
02:13:27austriancoderHCl: no.. at the moment not.. i am playing a little bit with the uda1380 ...
02:13:36HCljust wondering
02:13:42HClin the end it should be possible, right/
02:14:16austriancoderyep it should be possible
02:14:20HCl :)
02:14:32austriancoderbut first i want to hear radio :)
02:16:44austriancodercoding can be very funny and interesting
02:16:58 Quit Adity1 (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
02:16:59HCland very frustrating
02:17:10austriancoderthis also
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02:35:28*austriancoder will go to sleep now
02:35:31austriancodergood night all
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04:16:48XShocKgood night to all. :)
04:17:06XShocKi became a person who never gets near pc.
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04:31:31Aditya_anyone even here
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09:57:54bobTHCmornin' all !
09:58:36*preglow goes to hang himself
09:59:42bobTHCkeep the faith preglow !!
09:59:43rasherplease don't, we need you :>
10:00:20LinusNleave the suicide note in the wiki
10:00:34odd Quantum Computers May Be Easier to Build Than Predicted, NIST Work Suggests
10:01:38preglowi'm so tired of fighting against unix stuff in windows
10:03:38rasherhow so?
10:05:54preglowlike cygwin, msys and a ton of unixish libs i need to compile under windows
10:05:57preglowit breaks randomly
10:10:00 Part LinusN
10:10:36preglowand i need it ready in half an hour
10:12:13bobTHCpreglow > if u were u, i'll take a remote shell, with that u build ure env dev once.
10:15:11preglowand i need the program to work on windows for demoing
10:18:04 Join LinusN [0] (
10:18:06bobTHCin a ssh session to ure shell , u can show it under every OS except if ure proggy using some OS specific graphics libs
10:19:43Bagderpeople should learn windows is for games only ;-)
10:20:13preglowi need sound
10:20:15preglowso can't use ssh
10:20:19preglowi also need midi input
10:20:21preglowso again, no dice
10:20:24bobTHCindeed ;)
10:21:07preglowi will kill and maim the authors of portmidi
10:21:39Bagderwhat that be before or after your suicide? ;-)
10:21:49preglowi will haunt them in the afterlife
10:25:51t0masgood morning
10:26:10t0masbrb... coffe time :)
10:30:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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11:07:36 Nick ac_sleeping is now known as austriancoder (~austrianc@
11:07:47austriancodergoood morning
11:10:07*austriancoder reads docs about the uda1380
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11:21:50 Part arfo
11:46:26bobTHCmorning ;)
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12:02:51 Join MoosCamaro [0] (
12:03:09MoosCamaroMorning all
12:31:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:56:12 Join AEnertia [0] (~AEnertia@
12:56:27AEnertiaHey i've seen a huge hole in the codecs page...
12:56:44LinusNfill it, fast!
12:56:48AEnertiaBecause the ihp3xxx series supports video playback
12:57:00AEnertiaIt's an undocumented feature
12:57:30*rasher adds speex while we're at it
12:57:49LinusNwe will support video playback, but with our own video format
12:58:05AEnertiaThere is info on mystic river for the various encoder setting you need to have for it to work.
12:58:16AEnertiaProbably a good idea
12:58:39AEnertiaBut it might be prudent to add the video dec libraries around to the codecs page...
12:58:58AEnertiaIt might make some of the decisions for implementing the audio codecs clearer
12:59:23LinusNsince you will have to reencode 99% of all vodeo you want to see, we will use our own format
13:00:01AEnertiaBTW as a user of an old jbrv2 (which is now recylced in a usb externall hdd case after dieing beyond recovery)... and now the owner of a ihp3xx
13:00:07LinusNwhich will (probably, hopefully) have full speed frame rate
13:00:25AEnertiaI am happy to be back into the fray.. =-)
13:00:32LinusNinstead of the 10fps in the H3x0 iriver firmware
13:01:24AEnertiaI've used a lot of Portable devices and rockbox remains the BEST interface hands down
13:01:41AEnertiaI was actually really disappointed with the irivers interface and firmware...
13:01:44rasherooh, speex has a fixed-point port in-progress
13:01:45LinusNgood to hear
13:01:56AEnertiaCheers for everything so far...
13:02:09*LinusN has an H320
13:02:50AEnertiaOh and with the usb host... there isn't any discussion on the forums or wikifaq... any ideas about that?
13:03:46LinusNnot yet
13:05:06LinusNwe haven't started with the H300 port yet
13:05:32AEnertiaHave iriver said anything/given any idication of cooperating ?
13:05:53Bagderwe haven't asked them
13:05:58Bagderthey haven't said anything
13:06:24AEnertiaDo you think it's worth trying?
13:06:28LinusNone of their representatives have vaguely expressed a wish to make contact
13:06:39LinusNthey know about us
13:06:51LinusNi don't think it's worth to make contact
13:06:51AEnertiaWell that's somthing i guess.
13:06:56BagderI don't think we have much to gain
13:07:13LinusNif they want anything, they know where to find us
13:07:22rasherI noticed someone found specs for the h320 display recently
13:07:36AEnertiayah I saw that...
13:07:41rasherh300, I guess
13:07:42LinusNit's most likely the wrong display
13:07:51AEnertiaI saw that also ;-)
13:07:53rasherah, bummer
13:08:16rasherHm, lots of lang updates
13:08:22rasherI wonder if dansk is out of sync
13:09:15Bagdertime to run that language stat script of yours! ;-)
13:09:37rasherYes.. I seem to have done something to it though
13:09:44rasherits output has changed somehow
13:11:18rasherwhat's keeping pillo's proportional-font viewer patch out?
13:14:23rasherthis can't be right.. islenska is reported as having 166 untranslated strings
13:17:03LinusNi don't think anything is keeping the prop-font viewer patch out
13:17:16LinusNsomeone has to test it on all platforms and then commit it
13:17:49rasherI can vouch for it on iRiver at least
13:18:37rasherapplied it a good while ago and forgot that it wasn't "official"
13:19:34LinusNi have to run
13:19:39LinusNcu around
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13:22:57 Join |it|ChasKi` [0] (
13:39:51Lynx_since when is the H3x0 in discussion? :)
13:40:12Bagderit always has been, only a bit in the background
13:40:26Bagderand now Linus has one...
13:41:46Lynx_ah. is it much different? except the obvious colour screen.
13:41:55Bagderdifferent keypad
13:42:37Lynx_and hardware wise?
13:42:39BagderI didn't try it much so I can't tell about other details
13:42:45Bagderhardware wise it is similar
13:43:13Bagderthe lcd is the biggest thing keeping the first rockbox boot away still
13:43:14Lynx_but it's also out of production i guess from it not being on amazon...
13:43:41rashershops should still have them
13:44:49Lynx_yes, they do...
13:45:25Bagderoh, and it doesn't come with the fancy remote
13:45:59rashersometimes I'd like a simple remote
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13:53:49Lynx_340 eur for a h320...were the archos also so expensive?
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13:58:18rasher309 in denmark :)
13:59:07Lynx_hmm, i have to check what i would get for my recorder on ebay ;)
13:59:46rasheroh, that's from a French store it seems
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14:03:32 Nick QT_ is now known as QT (as@area51.users.madwifi)
14:08:17Lynx_hmm, ebay germany has only two recorders for about 100, but with days to go
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14:31:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:38:28preglowrasher: in progress? i thought the fixed point version of speex works pretty well
14:38:47rasherAh, just going by their webpage
14:39:03rasher"In-progress fixed-point port"
14:39:07preglowbut yeah
14:39:30preglowi've used speex before
14:39:32preglowit's a fine codec
14:39:51rashersomeone came here asking about it
14:40:37rashera few days ago I think
14:40:56preglowi've been thinking about adding it, to see how well it performs without iram
14:40:59preglowbut no time
14:42:26rasher <−− Speex request at 00:59:20
14:42:39rasherlinuxstb was also talking about speex for voicebox
14:43:13rasherI do wonder where he went
14:43:15preglowyes, that's what i'm thinking about using it for
14:43:25preglowyes, me too, would be nice to have another codec person around
14:44:56rasherhis domain is not responding
14:45:12preglowyeah, i've noticed that as well
14:53:28t0masapple using asp? lol
14:55:13rasheris that registred to apple though?
14:55:47rasherlooks like it is
14:56:00Bagder"Apple Computer Inc."
14:56:16rasher"1 Infinite Loop" ><
14:56:17t0maslooks good? :P
14:56:58*Bagder runs off
15:08:12rasher the nerve
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15:16:27t0masrasher: 8|
15:16:40*t0mas bangs his head against the wall...
15:16:47t0mashow stupid can you be...
15:17:16rasherOh quite
15:23:21*preglow has his first counter strike session in a long, long while
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15:25:03t0maspreglow: good luck then
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16:20:03t0masin rockbox... the version number is the compile date... not the checkout date..
16:20:20t0maswouldn't it be better to use the CVS checkout date as a version?
16:20:40preglowhow would you automate that?
16:20:52t0masdon't know, that's why I ask
16:21:06preglowbetter yes, but harder to implement
16:21:13preglowyou'd need cvs to tag your source code
16:21:21rasherset a cronscript on the server to update a file :)
16:21:54rashercronjob, I believe is the word I was looking for :-X
16:22:44 Join b0bTHC [0] (
16:23:49t0mashm... how do I "add" strings in a define?
16:24:01t0maspossible to do #define BLA "Something: " VAR
16:25:03preglowi think
16:25:05preglowgimme a sec
16:25:22t0masyes, I can test it myself :)
16:25:40preglowis VAR i #define as well?
16:25:51t0masa macro...
16:25:53t0masso yes...
16:25:59preglowtry #define BLA "Something: " #VAR
16:26:48rashergoogling gave me this
16:26:52rasher#define CONCATENATE(x,y) x##y
16:26:58rasherwhich seems to support ##
16:27:00t0masok, lets try that
16:29:04t0mastest.cpp:9:1: pasting ""something: "" and "TEST" does not give a valid preprocessing token
16:29:19t0mas#define TEST "bla"
16:29:20t0mas#define BLA "something: "##TEST
16:30:12preglowif TEST already IS a string
16:30:15preglowthen you need nothing at all
16:30:28t0maswell... my other test isn't a string
16:31:07***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:32:02preglowwhat is it?
16:32:05 Join ismi [0] (
16:32:18t0maspreglow: the __DATE__ macro
16:32:30preglowwhat does that evaluate to?
16:32:35preglowa string?
16:32:41t0masI guess...
16:32:46preglowthen you don't need anything there either
16:32:46 Quit ismi (Client Quit)
16:34:19t0masdoesn't work
16:35:43t0masit does when the "Something: " is a normal string
16:39:07 Quit bobTHC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:40:25preglowwhen i turn on my player with the remote several times
16:40:31preglowit sometimes boots the iriver firmware
16:40:42t0maswhen you press the button very short...
16:40:48t0maslike just clicking it
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16:47:49preglowno, when i keep it pressed as well
16:48:14t0mashm... weird
16:51:14rasherit should always boot the iRiver firmware, shouldn't it?
16:52:32rasherSo what's preglow saying..?
16:53:32t0masthat it doesn't
16:53:41t0masph wait
16:53:55t0maspreglow: it should do that...
16:54:04rasherThat's not a bug, but a feature!
16:54:07t0masbut when you press it to short, it somethimes doesn't work
16:54:10t0masthat's a bug...
16:54:29rasherIndeed, but hard to do anything about
16:54:51rasherI wonder how the iRiver firmware handles it
16:55:07rasherif you can turn that on using a locked remote
16:55:14rasherby tapping it
16:55:24rasherif not, they know something we don't
16:55:31rasher(if I understand the problem correctly)
16:55:44rasherlet me test this
16:56:20t0masthey check for the key lock after half the booting afaik?
16:56:32rasherthen it should be possible?
16:56:34t0masoh wait...
16:56:41t0masthey can't do that for remote separate
16:56:43preglowwaht, the remote SHOULD boot the iriver firmware?
16:56:49t0masyes preglow
16:56:55rasherbecause it's convenient
16:56:59t0masfeature? :)
16:57:06rasherwon't stay that way though
16:57:14preglowi sure as hell hope not
16:57:17rasherJust as long as rockbox is not functional
16:57:20preglowdoesn't exactly make sense
16:57:29t0masrasher: you have the iriver version flashed?
16:57:41 Part JackDaniels85
16:57:59rasherThe argument goes something like this: "If you're using the remote to turn it on, you probably have the player in your pocket and just want to listen to music"
16:58:03rashert0mas: not yet
16:58:42 Join DMJC [0] (
16:59:42rasherI just noticed the other day, the h120 is only slightly higher and a bit wider than my phone
17:00:38rashert0mas: I do now
17:01:44rashernow let's see.. unlocked main, locked remote, short tap on remote with iRiver 1.63-eu firmware: doesn't turn on
17:02:00rasherI wonder how they manage that
17:02:12rasherLinus: Any ideas?
17:02:28preglowlinus is not here
17:02:35rasherI know this
17:02:46rasherJust in case he searches the logs :)
17:03:14preglowi sure as hell don't assume people talk to me while i'm not here
17:03:24t0masyes, but Linus does ;)
17:03:51rashernow give me back my rockbox firmware..
17:04:06*rasher waits for iriver to boot, go into usb mode
17:05:26*rasher waits for iriver to come out of usb mode
17:05:31*rasher sighs heavily
17:06:17 Quit bobTHC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:08:08*t0mas pads rasher on the back... it will all be over soon ;)
17:09:10*rasher boots rockbox
17:09:54 Quit b0bTHC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:25:19 Quit Ka (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:32:11 Quit DMJC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:34:57 Join DMJC [0] (
17:35:53 Join |it|ChasKi` [0] (
17:49:05*t0mas is still wondering how iriver knows what button activated the player...
17:50:48preglowwhy shouldn't it?
17:51:30rasherwell rockbox can't figure out in the case where the button is released immedeatly
17:51:34preglowit probably does it sooner
17:51:37rasheruh.. I sure butchered that spelling
18:04:34preglowanyone know how to fix dead pixels?
18:04:37preglowlinus mentioned it can be done
18:05:12rasherI think he just said "massaging" the screen gentlyu
18:05:45preglowdo i need any fancy scented oils?
18:06:09rasherHaha, no idea
18:07:14 Quit |it|ChasKi` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:07:40 Quit Seed (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:08:51rasherIs this about your new Dell screen?
18:12:06preglowwhy, yes
18:12:08preglowit's due tomorrow
18:12:13preglowand i'll be having the full cpr kit ready
18:15:28rasherheh, can't you just ship it back?
18:15:39 Join _aLF [0] (
18:20:19 Join Seed [0] (
18:21:22preglowyes, i can
18:21:27preglowbut it takes bloody ages
18:21:34preglowand i really want to relieve my eyes from this crt hell
18:21:52 Join |it|ChasKi` [0] (
18:22:38thegeekI am in love with my 2005fpw
18:22:42thegeekit's supahnice
18:23:07preglowapart from the widescreen
18:23:10preglowi like 4:3 for monitors
18:23:17 Nick Lynx_ is now known as Lynx_awy (HydraIRC@
18:26:00preglowseems like it's more or less a wide screen version of the one i'm getting
18:31:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:55:47 Join |it|ChasKi [0] (
18:57:55 Quit Seed (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:59:09rasherpreglow: is dead?
18:59:30preglowseems so
19:00:08rasherso be it
19:05:36 Join Stryke` [0] (~Chairman8@resnet-241-86.resnet.UMBC.EDU)
19:06:57 Quit |it|ChasKi` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:14:10 Join Seed [0] (
19:25:22 Join Fred [0] (~chose@
19:25:26FredHi there !
19:26:26FredI have an FM Recorder 20, and I'd like to know if anyone managed to run Rombox with the latest CVS versions
19:26:56FredSome time ago it would have fit into Rombox, but it seems like Rockbox's tree grew in size
19:27:29FredDevs hinted to remove the debug menu, did anyone try this ?
19:28:01 Join |it|ChasKi` [0] (
19:29:17FredAnd another question : would it be possible to software hack an iPod Shuffle ?
19:29:39HClyou should ask that in #ipodlinux, they'd prolly know..
19:29:42FredThe processor is a sigmatel stmp3550b, but there aren't much docs on it publicly
19:29:49FredGood hint lol
19:30:39FredBut as the Rockbox team managed to hack older and newer Archos models, as well as iRiver H series ...
19:30:46FredMaybe you should know better
19:31:28FrediPod Suffle should have a much simplier layout than all these devices
19:32:02amiconnFred: Rombox did never fit for the FM recorder, only if you down-flashed it to become a recorder V2
19:32:34FredThat's what I did some time ago, my FM Recorder has a Recorder v2 rom in it
19:32:44amiconnHowever, now even this option is gone, because a number of features was added
19:33:05FredReally ? Rombox booted really fast ...
19:33:52 Quit |it|ChasKi (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
19:33:59amiconnThe difference in boot time shouldn't be that big, the advantage of having more free RAM is imho the more important one
19:35:07amiconn[IDC]Dragon is working on bootbox, which is a cut-down rockbox intended to replace the archos firmware in the flash images... a backup firmware. Bootbox will only handle charging, USB, and RoLo
19:36:07amiconnIf this is done, rombox should be possible on all archos models
19:36:58FredSounds great
19:38:03FredAnd Bootbox would have the core libraries Rockbox needs, or will it only be a minimal boot manager ?
19:38:12FredI mean, will it save ram for instance
19:39:10amiconnBootbox itself will not change ram usage at all, because it's intended as a backup firmware only, the same way that the archos firmware is used in the current flash images
19:40:07amiconnThat means, the future flash images won't contain archos firmware for "F1-boot", but bootbox instead
19:40:11Fredok, but will forcomming Rockbox builds have the bootcode stripped off ?
19:40:46 Join xen` [0] (
19:41:07amiconnSo a normal boot would work exactly like now, but the smaller size of bootbox compared to the archos firmware will leave more free space in the flash, allowing to put rombox there
19:41:12FredBut that means, we'll have some space left to store Rombox in the rom, as the original firmware will have gone away ?
19:41:22 Join Ka [0] (
19:41:26FredThat's it ...
19:42:30FredI llok forward for this :)
19:43:29amiconnDon't hold your breath though. It may take some time
19:43:40Fredlol ok
19:44:09FredDid you had to reverse-engineer all the chips you ported Rockbox on ?
19:44:26FredOr were these chips well documented ?
19:45:07amiconnThe chips are documented more or less, but of course the hardware design still needed quite some reverse engineering
19:45:09FredSounds like you had hard time wondering how the boot process worked, but the processors were allready documented
19:45:51amiconnI didn't do all that, I joined the project when rockbox was already running on the jukeboxes
19:46:14amiconn...but I did the Ondio port together with [IDC]Dragon
19:47:45FredIs the Rockbox base still moving, or do you actually focus on the iRiver port ?
19:47:46amiconnI believe that if the chips weren't documented at all, rockbox wouldn't have been successful
19:49:55amiconnWe intend to keep supporting all platforms rockbox currently runs on
19:49:56 Quit MoosCamaro (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:49:58 Join MoosCamaro [0] ( long as it is possible/ makes sense
20:09:21 Join Aison [0] (
20:19:21 Quit |it|ChasKi` (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
20:31:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:43:47 Quit Fred ()
20:52:57preglowi, agree
20:53:12preglowhow i hate all unix simulating windows environments
20:53:27preglowmay their downfall be swift and sudden
20:53:29*amiconn is currently running firefox on his debian vm, forwarded through ssh to the host's cygwin x server...
20:54:01t0mastalking about wasted resources :P
20:54:20amiconnI merely want to see whether I get this working
20:54:34t0masyes, I did almost the same yesterday...
20:54:39t0masbut with xeyes :)
20:54:39amiconnunix environments are cumbersome to configure...
20:54:51t0masand a real pc...
20:54:56t0masstill have to install vmware some time
20:55:03amiconnFirst, I had to tell sshd on debian to do x11 redirection
20:55:26amiconnThen I tried the rockbox simulator through it... only to get a BadAccess error
20:55:56amiconnSome googling told me to enable ForwardX11Trusted in the client's ssh configuration
20:56:48amiconnMaybe I should try the other way round as well
20:57:47t0masamiconn: ssh -X works too iirc
20:58:16t0mashm... putty worked... w/o extra config
20:58:25amiconnThis enabled x11 forwarding only, but not the trust
20:58:44amiconnMaybe putty is different, but I'm using the openssh client in cygwin
21:00:25 Join theebag [0] (
21:03:07 Join Sucka [0] (
21:21:12*HCl bites his game
21:31:43t0mashow did it taste?
21:35:36 Quit theebag ()
21:40:58 Quit DangerousDan (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:47:56 Join DangerousDan [0] (
21:52:04 Join XShocK [0] (
21:53:09 Join |it|ChasKi` [0] (
22:03:04 Join austriancoder [0] (~austrianc@
22:03:36amiconnBagder: r u there?
22:03:58amiconnI might have found the cause of RLD...
22:04:31amiconnWhen I'm not totally off, this is a mutex dealock...
22:04:58amiconn...which hits when the a retry is necessary
22:05:36rasherdeadlocks :<
22:08:43amiconnDoes anyone feel like checking my thoughts?
22:08:51preglowamiconn: didn't you try the proportional viewer plugin and find some gripes with it?
22:09:08amiconnDidn't try it...
22:09:46preglowthen my memory is glitching again
22:14:23preglowany reason why strncmp is not in the plugin api?
22:14:40amiconnNo yet needed in a plugin
22:15:23preglowthen i assume someone's going to fix it when they need it, and i'll ignore the patch
22:15:45amiconnYes, saw that patch too
22:17:03preglowHCl: any news on markun and the grayscale patch ?V:
22:17:32amiconnThat reminds me I should start working on the new gfx api...
22:17:45 Quit austriancoder (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
22:18:20amiconnthere he went...
22:18:49amiconnThere are more incomplete patches of markun... like unicode support
22:19:16 Join austriancoder [0] (~austrianc@
22:20:26preglowthe unicode thing probably requires much work to be done throughout rockbox
22:20:38preglowgrayscale patch is much less work, he should work on that :P
22:22:07 Join Adity1 [0] (
22:26:45amiconnI wonder what type/ amount of change(s) would justify a major version bump, i.e. rockbox 3.0....
22:28:58austriancoderfully iriver support?
22:29:46Adity1well cygwin is finally working
22:29:55Adity1now to get this simulator thing running
22:30:02preglowfull h1x0 support with a good codec base i think would merit rockbox 3.0
22:30:10preglowthe codecs being what i think merits the bump
22:30:48Adity1and by v4.. h320!!! :P
22:31:06preglownothing revolutionizing for that, i'm afraid!
22:31:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:32:36*HCl yawns
22:33:03HClpreglow: i don't think he's been working on it.
22:33:18amiconnI don't know what justified the bump to 2.0, but then I did not yet participate when that happened
22:33:19HClwe made a nice compiler for this tiny language today
22:33:20HClit was fun
22:35:49Adity1compilaers are bitch when you get to write for all of the C language.. *shudders*
22:36:02HCli dunno
22:36:06 Join cYmen_ [0] (
22:36:07Adity1well all as in the most common stuff
22:36:10HClC syntax isn't that hard
22:36:15 Nick Adity1 is now known as Aditya_ (
22:36:26Aditya_its not the syntax.. its just a pain
22:37:01Aditya_so thats why my batteries are dying so quickly
22:38:01Aditya_this logitech software apparently puts ur keyboard+mouse on "idle" when you are not using them so ur batteries dont run out quickly..
22:38:13Aditya_I apparently didn't have this installed after I reinstalled XP
22:41:43 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (~[IDC]
22:41:57amiconnGood evening Hanover
22:42:21 Quit cYmen_ ("leaving")
22:42:41[IDC]Dragonhi there
22:43:11amiconnMaybe I found the cause for rld... :)
22:43:12[IDC]Dragonjust a quick one from my webpad
22:43:20[IDC]Dragonsaw that
22:43:35[IDC]Dragonbrought me here...
22:43:48amiconnNow I only need a shaky environment to test with my player...
22:44:09[IDC]Dragonpainful typing
22:44:16amiconnLook at ata.c, ata_read_sectors()....
22:44:33 Join Chamois [0] (
22:45:32[IDC]Dragonnot now, i'm in bed already
22:45:35amiconnTake a look at Line 499, then lines 573/ 608/ 620, then line 628. Then take a look at ata_soft_reset()
22:45:57[IDC]Dragonjust wanted to cheer
22:46:15amiconnWhat does that tell you? Eeek! mutex_lock(&ata_mtx) within mutex_lock(&ata_mtx) !
22:46:38[IDC]Dragonno good, indeed
22:47:20amiconnHmm, there's something I wanted to ask you.... but I don't remember atm
22:47:33[IDC]Dragonour mutexes should not lock if already owned by the same thread...
22:47:50amiconnPromoting sloppy coding?
22:47:57[IDC]Dragonin win32, they don't
22:48:28[IDC]Dragonor give a warning for debuging
22:49:20amiconnSame as above goes for ata_write_sectors() of course
22:49:31[IDC]Dragonbtw, rockbox 2.0 was the plugin system
22:49:53[IDC]Dragonmaybe 3.0 is no rld
22:50:02amiconnHmm, maybe I don't remember correctly?
22:50:38amiconnAfair, rb 2.0 was the first version I had on my recorder. I'm quite sure this didn't have plugins, but some games in the main menu
22:50:53amiconnHCl: Red Led Death
22:51:09[IDC]Dragonred light death, a loong maintained bug
22:51:13amiconnMeaning a deadlock on harddisk access, with the red led constantly on
22:51:22[IDC]Dragonour classic
22:51:45Bagderplugins came in 2.1
22:52:21[IDC]Dragoni thought flasing came in 2.1
22:52:32amiconnBagder: So my memory wasn't wrong :)
22:52:38[IDC]Dragonmust have been 2.2 then
22:52:59[IDC]Dragonmy first was 1.4
22:53:20[IDC]Dragonthat's how i started
22:54:16amiconnBagder: So was there anything special that justified 2.0?
22:54:25[IDC]Dragoni still keep a 1.4 variant with infrared control capability
22:54:38Bagderamiconn: I don't remember what made us take the jump
22:54:41[IDC]Dragonrc5 patcj
22:55:04amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Is there no way to port it to current rockbox?
22:55:35[IDC]Dragonsure there is, nobody demanded
22:55:38amiconnBagder: Should it perhaps become rockbox standard that a <n>.4 version is followed by a <n+1>.0 ?
22:55:54BagderI'm game! ;-)
22:56:03amiconn3.0 would be due then...
22:56:07[IDC]Dragonpental numbering?
22:56:45amiconn4.4 −−> 10.0
22:56:57*Bagder giggles
22:56:58[IDC]Dragongo fix that rld first...
22:57:34amiconnI'll need a way to reliably reproduce hd retries
22:58:09amiconnBtw, I observed that this hitachi hd wants to retry quite often when running on usb from battery power only
22:58:12[IDC]Dragonor post a test version
22:58:33amiconnWindows always manages to recover after some seconds
22:59:24amiconnPerhaps I should power the unit from my lab supply, with lowest voltage and current limiter lowered too...
22:59:29[IDC]Dragonif you see the lock from the program flow, no fufther experinents required
23:00:06amiconnI need experiments for seeing/ tuning the behaviour when I resolve the deadlock
23:00:09[IDC]Dragonmy padding fing hurts from typing
23:00:59 Quit [IDC]Dragon (Remote closed the connection)
23:05:55 Quit Chamois (" HydraIRC -> <- The future of IRC")
23:18:47t0mas<[IDC]Dragon> i still keep a 1.4 variant with infrared control capability
23:19:01t0masarchos as a device with infrared?
23:19:17HClsounds like we need to port that feature to the current version
23:19:30HClits pointless to remove features when they're possible and we already have the source to them o.o
23:19:31t0maswith wat infrared port? :P
23:20:01HCli dunno
23:21:48amiconnt0mas: Probably hooked up to the SH1 serial port, dunno
23:22:05amiconnThis was never part of mainline rockbox, but a patch (iiuc)
23:22:46amiconn...needing a hardware mod of course
23:22:56 Quit Aison (No route to host)
23:23:05t0masthe iriver had a spare rx and tx pin on the main board right?
23:23:20t0massomeone read some numbers from it when iriver firmware was playing
23:23:23amiconnHowever, some features that also need a hardware mod are part of mainline rockbox code, enabled by extra #defines
23:23:41amiconn(8 MB ram, rtc alarm wakeup for the v1 recorder to name some)
23:24:01HClheh, would it be possible to mod an rtc into iriver? :P
23:24:17amiconnI dunno, maybe it's even prepared on the pcb?
23:25:03t0mashm... maybe linus knows
23:25:13amiconnThis is sometimes frustrating; the Ondio pcb has pads & traces for a neat el backlight, but no Ondio was seen with these parts actually mounted
23:25:43t0mascan't you just mount some small type leds in?
23:25:49amiconn...and still, archos re-did the layout for this part when the old el driver chip was no longer available (!!)
23:26:21amiconnt0mas: Not enough space. leds would need a diffusor plate or similar
23:26:49t0masreplace the screen? :)
23:26:56amiconn[IDC]Dragon got hold of that el driver chip and a small el foil and does now have a working el backlight
23:26:57 Quit |it|ChasKi` (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
23:27:05HCl :p
23:27:21amiconnTurns out the archos firmware even drives the backlight control pin (!!)
23:27:51rashergood stuff
23:28:29HClwell, if it didn't, it would be odd that they redid the layout, wouldn't it :)
23:28:52t0mashmz... checking the pcb scans...
23:29:03t0masI don't see any place for it...
23:29:10amiconnJust found it on [IDC]Dragon's site. The infrared control doesn't even need an internal mod of the archos. Just some circuitry hooked up to the remote control input pin...
23:29:14t0masbut I guess linus whould have noticed it then
23:29:56 Join ashridah [0] (
23:30:32t0mashm.. those iriver serial lines..
23:30:44t0masare we able to read to and write from them in rockbox?
23:30:59HClnot sure
23:31:06amiconnA driver would be needed, but it shouldn't be hard
23:32:06t0masok, and the line out... that's hooked up to the audio chip?
23:32:10t0masor the cpu?
23:32:24amiconndac, I'd guess
23:32:36t0mashm.. only optical is linked to the cpu?
23:34:34t0masgood night
23:36:51XShocKone thing that i think will be good to do is to make some kind of filesystem in 2MB flashin iriver, for example to store some games, or codecs, so that it does not require hard disk startup each time.
23:37:02XShocKex: jffs
23:37:40XShocKi guess it is not very new idea, but i still though it worths saying. :)
23:37:47t0mashm... the most used codecs would be a nice idea
23:38:18amiconnIirc the most used codecs will be builtin anyway
23:38:30XShocKi think there are maaaany things that can be storred there.. 2MB is not small
23:38:54 Join Aison [0] (
23:38:57amiconn2 MB minus the iriver firmware, and/or rockbox
23:39:16t0masrockbox flashed? :)
23:39:22t0maslike the archos has now?
23:39:48amiconnOnce it runs stable, that would be a good idea imho
23:40:02t0mashm.. it would speed up the booting even more I guess
23:40:02XShocKamiconn: what rockbox is ready, why would iriver original be needed anyway, actually if someone wants, nobody stops a person from running it from hard disk anyway
23:40:21XShocKi mean original firmware
23:40:28t0masXShocK: when rockbox doesn't boot (devving trouble) then it's nice to have iriver firmware
23:40:31t0masfor usb...
23:40:40amiconnOf course, ockbox would need to offer an option to flash firmware
23:41:04t0masand some low lever recovery mode...
23:41:12t0masfor when rockbox itself can't boot
23:41:18HClloading iriver firmware from disk?
23:41:21HClwould that be possible?
23:41:22amiconnt0mas: YOu don't necessarily need iriver firmware for that.
23:41:50amiconnDid you read the conversation about bootbox for archos earlier this evening?
23:42:02XShocKdo you think that flash can include both rockbox+codecs+ original firmware? i doubt it
23:42:03amiconnI can imagine something similar for iriver
23:42:05t0masno, but I heard something about bootbox
23:42:12t0masthat would be a good idea
23:43:41amiconnXShocK: The 258 KB flash on archos can hold archos firmware + rockbox...
23:43:48amiconn*256 KB
23:44:10amiconn...made possible by compression
23:45:09*t0mas is now really away :)
23:45:26XShocKamiconn: yes, but current mp3 realization is itself 260kb. :)
23:45:53amiconnThat's huuuge
23:46:17XShocKbut you are right, compressed it may be around 100
23:46:18amiconnMy guess is that most of it is just bss space
23:46:24amiconnDo you have a .map file?
23:46:59XShocKno. i just look at mpa2wav.rock file
23:47:14amiconnYes, and the .rock is code+data+bss
23:47:34amiconnThe .bss is most likely some static buffer, which isn't part of the codec
23:48:01amiconnCan someone compile an iriver build, and post somewhere?
23:49:48XShocKamiconn: it will be around 60-80 kb anyway
23:49:58XShocKcompressed version is 56kb.
23:50:48 Quit Harpy (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
23:52:54XShocKHCl: i think it is possible. we just copy it straight to ram, and run. since all algorithms of how iriver copies everything is known, it would not be a problem i hink.">
23:53:59amiconnXShocK: Yes, something like the archos bootloader does, uncompressing it into the correct memory region(s)
23:54:16amiconnThe rockbox flash bootloader for archos, I mean
23:54:39amiconnrasher: Thanks
23:54:44XShocK150 kb of buffers
23:55:30amiconnmpa2wav: ~31 KB code, ~145 KB buffers, ~40 KB constants
23:56:10XShocKamiconn: how much space do we have in flash with original firmware?
23:56:10rasherthat's a lot of constants
23:56:28amiconnplus ~29 KB in iram
23:56:53XShocK40kb constants?? :)
23:57:41amiconnXShocK: Dunno. How big is the final .hex (iriver fw + bootloader)?
23:57:57amiconnXShocK: Yes, 40 KB constants (the .rodata section)
23:57:58XShocKamiconn: the same..
23:58:18XShocKi think
23:58:42XShocKamiconn: since i think data is not placed in addition, it is just replaced by useless space of functions

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