| 00:03:19 | | Join ashridah [0] (ashridah@220-253-121-244.VIC.netspace.net.au) |
| 00:10:29 | | Quit cYmen ("zZz") |
| 00:18:13 | | Quit ashridah ("Leaving") |
| 00:28:45 | Bagder | ipodlinux stole our doom april fool's joke! |
| 00:28:59 | Bagder | compare http://www.rockbox.org/doom/ with http://www.ipodhacks.com/article.php?sid=741 |
| 00:29:15 | Bagder | correction, ipodhacks.com stole it |
| 00:34:08 | | Quit Aison ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.72 :: www.XLhost.de )") |
| 00:35:05 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 00:38:36 | preglow | infidels! |
| 00:39:10 | preglow | i wonder how possible doom is for h3x0... |
| 00:41:39 | amiconn | The iriver should be powerful enough to run doom |
| 00:41:50 | preglow | yes, i believe so |
| 00:41:57 | amiconn | I remember playing it on a 386/40 with only 4 megs of ram |
| 00:41:58 | preglow | old crummy 486 could play doom |
| 00:42:15 | preglow | and that was at 320x200 |
| 00:42:40 | preglow | but i guess it'll be a nightmare to navigate, heh |
| 00:42:45 | amiconn | ...and it runs (pefectly playable) on the Amiga, with 68040 or better cpu |
| 00:43:22 | amiconn | An even bigger nightmare for a first person shooter would be the slooow display... |
| 00:43:26 | crashd | is there any ARM gurus about tonight ? |
| 00:43:37 | preglow | crashd: just ask |
| 00:43:51 | preglow | i know a teeny bit arm :V |
| 00:43:57 | crashd | heh, i know a teeny bit too :\ |
| 00:44:07 | crashd | im working on reverse engineering the flash code for the h10 |
| 00:44:24 | preglow | sounds like "fun" |
| 00:44:30 | crashd | (i know it's not totally relevant, sorry) |
| 00:44:38 | crashd | hehe, fun isn't even the word to begin to describe it preglow ;) |
| 00:44:49 | crashd | anyway, i think ive located most of the decryption stuff (for the firmware file) |
| 00:44:56 | crashd | i just wanted a second pair of eyes on it |
| 00:46:38 | preglow | so, where is it? |
| 00:51:34 | * | preglow looks at the doom source code |
| 00:54:10 | | Join TCK- [0] (TCK@81-86-99-137.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 00:55:13 | | Join StrathAFK [0] (~mike@dgvlwinas01pool0-a217.wi.tds.net) |
| 00:57:29 | | Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection) |
| 01:00 |
| 01:05:44 | crashd | ahh |
| 01:05:49 | crashd | sorry, i went for a smoke break :] |
| 01:06:11 | crashd | http://www.scribbleninja.org.uk/iriver/BL_H10_disassembled.rar |
| 01:06:27 | crashd | is the arm-elf-objdump dead listing of it |
| 01:09:09 | preglow | of what? encrypted flash file? |
| 01:10:17 | crashd | its the dead listing of the unencrypted flash file for the h10 |
| 01:10:31 | | Join _aLEX [0] (Alexandre@mut38-2-82-67-66-128.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 01:10:31 | | Quit _aLF (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 01:10:31 | preglow | how'd you get the unencrypted flash file? |
| 01:10:32 | crashd | there's another encrypted file, which is the firmware os file, which lives in device:\system\h10.mi4 |
| 01:10:43 | crashd | it comes unencrypted with various firmware updates |
| 01:10:46 | preglow | ahh |
| 01:10:48 | preglow | didn't know that |
| 01:10:52 | crashd | they rarely update the flash though, as there's no need |
| 01:10:55 | crashd | but they have once or twice |
| 01:11:06 | preglow | so, where do you think you've found the decrypt code? |
| 01:12:40 | crashd | 2ff20 |
| 01:12:43 | crashd | gets jumped to more than once |
| 01:12:52 | crashd | and there's so many eor's + add's |
| 01:13:03 | crashd | leads me to believe (with a tip off from an ipodlinux developer) |
| 01:13:08 | crashd | that's it rc4 decryption code |
| 01:13:08 | | Quit Strath (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 01:13:31 | preglow | well, at least it looks like proper code |
| 01:13:36 | crashd | yah, i mean |
| 01:13:43 | crashd | there's a fair amount of string data etc.. in that dump |
| 01:13:56 | crashd | as it didnt distinguish between them and just tried to semantify every byte it found |
| 01:14:03 | crashd | if you open the rom in ida you can easier see what's code and what's data |
| 01:14:32 | preglow | yeah, sure |
| 01:14:45 | preglow | strange of them to encrypt their data, then just give away the unencrypted decrypt routine |
| 01:15:04 | crashd | yeah, i mean it's less secure than the ipod's firmware was |
| 01:15:22 | crashd | apple seems to have done it the other way round with an encrypted flash file and a decrypted firmware |
| 01:16:04 | crashd | i dunno, it was only by chance that i managed to grab the flash file, it was sitting on my iriver after an update and i hadnt yet ran the 'firmware update' from the unit itself |
| 01:16:27 | preglow | but this most definitely looks like encryption stuff, yeah |
| 01:16:44 | preglow | but then again, i'm no expert |
| 01:16:47 | crashd | nor i |
| 01:17:49 | preglow | but just write it what it does in a more readable form and see if you find some algo that matches :V |
| 01:17:58 | preglow | then try to extract keys some place |
| 01:18:03 | crashd | yeah, i mean that's the plan |
| 01:18:04 | preglow | the function takes two parameters, i see |
| 01:18:11 | crashd | although it's 00:20 here, so im a bit beat :] |
| 01:18:18 | preglow | 1:20 here, heh |
| 01:18:32 | crashd | O.o |
| 01:19:08 | crashd | i assume one of the params is a memory location for the data and the other is a key ;) |
| 01:20:27 | preglow | no, it takes a bunch of parameters |
| 01:20:34 | preglow | i forgot arm usually passes those in registers |
| 01:21:55 | preglow | looks like r0 contains the address of some input array, and r1 the output array |
| 01:22:00 | preglow | r9 is loop index |
| 01:24:36 | crashd | yeah |
| 01:24:39 | crashd | sorry, im pretty slow with arm |
| 01:25:03 | preglow | i've never used it before, so i might very well be spouting bullshit here |
| 01:25:08 | crashd | hehe |
| 01:25:11 | preglow | but i picked some arm up when porting a libmad routine to coldfire |
| 01:25:13 | crashd | well, from what i can figure i'd agree |
| 01:25:15 | | Quit NibbIer ("blubber") |
| 01:25:24 | crashd | it seems to jump into the branch after setting up the registers |
| 01:25:41 | | Quit _aLEX ("Leaving") |
| 01:25:41 | crashd | and then loops round till it hits the right circumstances |
| 01:28:20 | preglow | i don't get all the shifting |
| 01:32:06 | crashd | hmm |
| 01:34:02 | preglow | but yeah |
| 01:34:08 | preglow | 2feec is the entry point, no? |
| 01:35:20 | preglow | and literal pool starts at 3004c |
| 01:35:41 | preglow | hey, this _is_ fun :P |
| 01:35:53 | crashd | 2feec you reckon |
| 01:35:55 | crashd | mmm |
| 01:35:58 | preglow | well, yeah |
| 01:36:02 | preglow | that's a typical arm entry point |
| 01:36:06 | preglow | it's saves all the registers to stack |
| 01:36:09 | preglow | so it can clobber them |
| 01:36:11 | crashd | yeah |
| 01:36:15 | crashd | id agree with that |
| 01:36:30 | preglow | and the instructions before that is gibberish |
| 01:36:38 | preglow | i literal pool, i guess |
| 01:36:42 | preglow | i = a |
| 01:37:52 | crashd | yeah |
| 01:38:06 | crashd | in ida i can see that 3004c is the start of the literals, including |
| 01:38:26 | preglow | that is a literal pool, i'm certain |
| 01:38:37 | crashd | 'system\\h10.mi4', which is the encrypted firmware |
| 01:38:39 | crashd | amongst other things |
| 01:38:50 | preglow | cool |
| 01:38:56 | crashd | i dont doubt you ;) you are more on the ball than i am |
| 01:39:24 | crashd | im just gonna go for a smoke, bbias |
| 01:39:50 | preglow | i want a smoke too :/ |
| 01:39:59 | * | preglow gets coffee |
| 01:43:03 | preglow | but yeah, r3 is pointer to filename, obviously, it's set to system\\h10.mi4 if the pointer is null |
| 01:46:39 | preglow | .mi4 seems to be appended to the filename |
| 01:51:27 | preglow | if r2 is less then 8, 0x30034 is called, i think |
| 01:59:37 | crashd | our house is full of chronic smokers, so it's been really ahrd to quit, heh |
| 01:59:59 | preglow | haha |
| 02:00 |
| 02:00:17 | preglow | i just keep my consumption down to a couple a day, so i never feel the need :P |
| 02:00:56 | preglow | seems like this routine of ours returns a 128 bit number |
| 02:01:18 | crashd | 128 bit you say |
| 02:01:35 | crashd | id be guessing that thats a key then |
| 02:01:38 | | Nick StrathAFK is now known as Strath (~mike@dgvlwinas01pool0-a217.wi.tds.net) |
| 02:01:44 | crashd | either that, or half a key |
| 02:01:51 | crashd | as the ipod uses a 256bit key |
| 02:03:38 | preglow | but it also most certainly gets data from an array, and saves an equal amount to another array |
| 02:05:10 | preglow | i wonder what the hell it uses the filename for |
| 02:05:20 | preglow | it's involved in the tons of calculations |
| 02:06:36 | preglow | what data is at 3004c? |
| 02:06:57 | preglow | is that the file name? |
| 02:07:31 | crashd | nope |
| 02:07:49 | crashd | it's the start of a block which includes the filename, amongst other stuff |
| 02:07:57 | crashd | well, it's just before the block |
| 02:08:38 | preglow | so it's just numbers? |
| 02:09:08 | crashd | yeah |
| 02:09:09 | crashd | hmm |
| 02:09:20 | preglow | the first 16 bytes seem to be a default of some kind |
| 02:09:32 | preglow | the 4 bytes after those aren't anything special either? |
| 02:09:53 | preglow | that is, 30060 |
| 02:10:15 | preglow | what's there? |
| 02:10:24 | crashd | nope |
| 02:11:32 | crashd | 0x47 |
| 02:12:51 | preglow | ahhh |
| 02:12:53 | preglow | now i get it |
| 02:13:27 | preglow | the 128 bits are the decryption state |
| 02:13:47 | preglow | for the first call, the routine is called with r3 = 0, so the default state is loaded |
| 02:14:02 | preglow | but every time after that, the routine is called with the 128 bits it returned last time |
| 02:14:11 | preglow | it probably needs to return now and then to load more data from disk |
| 02:15:04 | crashd | ahh |
| 02:15:22 | preglow | the key is the data at 3004c, i'll wager |
| 02:15:58 | preglow | the 128 bits probably also acts as a checksum |
| 02:16:12 | preglow | this is probably a block cipher, just like they used for h1x0 |
| 02:16:52 | crashd | not a stream cipher then |
| 02:16:53 | crashd | hmm |
| 02:17:32 | preglow | well, kind of |
| 02:17:35 | preglow | but it works in blocks |
| 02:17:45 | | Nick tvelocity is now known as tvelocity[away] (~tony@ipa98.1.tellas.gr) |
| 02:17:51 | preglow | and has checksums interleaved here an there |
| 02:18:29 | preglow | but i can't find a place calling this routine of ours |
| 02:19:58 | crashd | maybe somewhere else the address is constructed into a register or two, then popped onto the pc? |
| 02:20:29 | preglow | perhaps |
| 02:20:39 | crashd | <longshot> |
| 02:20:40 | crashd | hehe |
| 02:20:43 | preglow | i can't even find another place that looks like it has code |
| 02:21:28 | crashd | from 0x0 - 0xcc 'ish looks fairly sane |
| 02:21:58 | preglow | no, not really, no |
| 02:22:13 | HCl | its too late :x |
| 02:22:16 | HCl | night |
| 02:22:24 | crashd | HCl: you can say that again :\ |
| 02:23:43 | preglow | something's happening around 94, though |
| 02:24:00 | HCl | that again :\ |
| 02:24:04 | crashd | HCl: heh |
| 02:24:21 | HCl | :p |
| 02:24:23 | HCl | night. |
| 02:24:28 | crashd | preglow: but why would the entry point be there O.o |
| 02:24:55 | preglow | HCl: nigthie |
| 02:25:06 | preglow | crashd: no idea, but it's pretty irrelevant |
| 02:25:15 | preglow | crashd: you should try coding this decryption routine |
| 02:25:32 | preglow | you'll still have to guess the block size and file structure, though |
| 02:25:32 | preglow | hmm |
| 02:25:53 | preglow | but i'm fairly certain it's supposed to be used like i described |
| 02:25:55 | crashd | and how much of the encrypted file it's reading, i took a look at it just a few minutes ago and it's got a header in it |
| 02:26:05 | crashd | and im unsure how big the 'header' if before it's the actual encrypted stuff |
| 02:26:24 | preglow | hmm, yeah |
| 02:27:18 | preglow | but no, the rest of the file looks like extreme gibberish |
| 02:27:25 | preglow | sane arm code is pretty easy to spot |
| 02:27:39 | preglow | since insane arm code has conditionals in more or less all instructions |
| 02:28:34 | crashd | yeah, it does look like a lot of gibberish, after staring at the 'sane' parts for a while |
| 02:29:34 | crashd | im guessing at least some of this is going to be image data and the like |
| 02:29:37 | crashd | along with the literals |
| 02:30:07 | crashd | as the h10 still retains the ability to display the 'iriver' logo even without a firwmare file |
| 02:30:25 | preglow | mhm |
| 02:31:06 | preglow | but yeah |
| 02:31:10 | preglow | all this isn't image data, heh |
| 02:31:25 | crashd | not all of it, obv, hehe |
| 02:31:34 | crashd | im just postulating :\ |
| 02:32:15 | preglow | but how does firmware stuff work with h10? |
| 02:32:20 | preglow | i get the impression it's not all flash based |
| 02:32:28 | crashd | nope |
| 02:32:39 | crashd | there's 2 parts, the initial "bootloader", which is this file |
| 02:32:49 | crashd | and then, there's h10.mi4, which is the rest of the opereating system |
| 02:33:09 | crashd | it's the h10.mi4 that iriver update, usually, as they have no reason to update bl_h10.rom, unless tehy change their encryption or whatever, i guess |
| 02:33:36 | preglow | ahh |
| 02:33:44 | preglow | so the file we're looking at now is what gets flashed? |
| 02:33:48 | crashd | yup |
| 02:33:53 | crashd | and loads the rest of the os |
| 02:34:49 | preglow | i was talking bs, btw |
| 02:34:56 | preglow | the code around 0 might be good |
| 02:35:00 | preglow | now, if i could only concentrate... |
| 02:35:07 | crashd | all the branches? |
| 02:35:09 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 02:35:22 | crashd | hehe |
| 02:35:37 | crashd | ive got a pretty bad wandering mind at the moment |
| 02:35:42 | crashd | could do with a nice pot of coffee |
| 02:36:28 | preglow | all the branches, yeah |
| 02:36:41 | preglow | might easily be what a interrupt vector table looks like for arm, for all i know |
| 02:39:09 | preglow | no, the code is decent |
| 02:39:12 | preglow | i just have no idea what's going on |
| 02:39:28 | crashd | hehe |
| 02:39:37 | crashd | you're further than i am, for sure |
| 02:42:58 | preglow | more decent code around ee44 |
| 02:43:06 | preglow | the code at 0 actually ends up there |
| 02:47:10 | preglow | hmm, they might be using thumb code here and there |
| 02:47:14 | preglow | that's a bit of a show stopper |
| 02:48:12 | crashd | urgh |
| 02:48:15 | crashd | that's true |
| 02:49:03 | preglow | there are plenty of bx instructions around |
| 02:49:46 | preglow | so it actually seems like that's the case, i'm afraid |
| 02:50:03 | crashd | hehe, this creates a problem :| |
| 02:50:05 | crashd | i need another smoke |
| 02:50:06 | | Quit amiconn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 02:50:21 | crashd | if you're not about in 5, thanks for taking a look :] if i make any headroom or whatever ill be around |
| 02:50:28 | crashd | bbi5 |
| 02:50:37 | | Join amiconn [0] (~jens@p54BD6E26.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 02:52:27 | preglow | i suppose it makes sense for them to use thumb code if they've only got limited flash space for a bootloader |
| 02:52:53 | preglow | but yeah, you'll need to do some more advanced disassembling, then |
| 02:53:02 | preglow | bah, it's getting light outside |
| 02:53:30 | preglow | i always feel clever when i go to bed when it's starting to get lighter out |
| 03:00 |
| 03:00:25 | crashd | hehe |
| 03:00:28 | crashd | i know what you mean :] |
| 03:00:37 | crashd | im gonna get to bed before the sun can mock me with its rays |
| 03:00:53 | preglow | too late for that |
| 03:01:19 | preglow | but i'm going to bed nevertheless |
| 03:01:20 | preglow | gnight |
| 03:01:24 | crashd | nn dude |
| 03:01:26 | crashd | thanks for your help :] |
| 03:01:33 | preglow | no problem, it was fun, heh |
| 03:01:44 | | Quit preglow ("gnite") |
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| 03:53:12 | | Part asdsd____ |
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| 04:25:09 | | Quit Seed (Nick collision from services.) |
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| 04:35:12 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 05:38:36 | | Quit Aditya ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/") |
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| 06:35:13 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 06:43:33 | | Quit DMJC ("Leaving") |
| 07:00 |
| 07:08:07 | | Quit courtc (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 07:25:05 | | Join LinusN [0] (~linus@labb.contactor.se) |
| 07:27:52 | | Join webguest24 [0] (~c31ce021@labb.contactor.se) |
| 07:32:09 | | Join wacky_ [0] (~wacky@modemcable011.4-37-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 07:32:32 | wacky_ | the fwpatcher.exe crashes with wine over here... |
| 07:32:53 | LinusN | hiw nice :-) |
| 07:32:55 | wacky_ | also, which bootloader is included within fwpatcher ? |
| 07:33:06 | LinusN | the same one as in the wiki |
| 07:33:16 | wacky_ | the 11/02 ? |
| 07:33:23 | LinusN | yeah |
| 07:33:34 | | Join I-R-Addict [0] (~8eb3a46c@labb.contactor.se) |
| 07:33:38 | wacky_ | so it's nothing good for the 1.65 firmware ? |
| 07:33:44 | LinusN | yes it is |
| 07:33:53 | wacky_ | ? how come ? |
| 07:33:59 | LinusN | the 1.65 bug wasn't in the boot loader, but in the patcher |
| 07:34:02 | I-R-Addict | hello fellow iRiver-ians |
| 07:34:05 | wacky_ | well it's going to mess up the ogg playback ? |
| 07:34:09 | wacky_ | oohhhhh, goody :) |
| 07:34:29 | LinusN | I-R-Addict: hello, iriver ninja |
| 07:34:33 | wacky_ | so I can just cvs up the rockbox dirs and use the same process as usual.. |
| 07:34:35 | wacky_ | ok good thanks |
| 07:35:14 | * | I-R-Addict is just going to sit in and listen to some technical talk |
| 07:35:19 | I-R-Addict | hope you don't mind :) |
| 07:35:24 | * | Rick blabbers technospeak for I-R-Addict |
| 07:35:34 | I-R-Addict | ahh excellent. lol |
| 07:35:48 | Rick | LinusN: what's shakin'? |
| 07:36:06 | LinusN | my hands, since i haven't had my morning coffee :-) |
| 07:36:17 | Rick | hehe |
| 07:36:32 | * | LinusN runs to fill his cup |
| 07:36:58 | Rick | :) |
| 07:39:33 | LinusN | other than that, not much shakin' goin' on |
| 07:39:50 | LinusN | been busy with Real Life and Paid Work |
| 07:40:43 | Rick | ah |
| 07:40:51 | Rick | what do you do (for work)? |
| 07:43:40 | LinusN | i'm an embedded systems engineer (surprise) |
| 07:44:57 | LinusN | this is what i'm working on right now: http://www.maquet.com/criticalcare/code/productConfigPage.aspx?m1=105404627933&m2=105593208027&m3=105584077050&productGroupID=105593208027&productConfigID=105584077050 |
| 07:45:42 | | Quit I-R-Addict ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 07:50:06 | | Join I-R-Addict [0] (~8eb3a46c@labb.contactor.se) |
| 08:00 |
| 08:12:25 | | Quit webguest24 ("CGI:IRC") |
| 08:18:05 | | Join StrathAFK [0] (~mike@dgvlwinas01pool0-a217.wi.tds.net) |
| 08:20:39 | | Quit Stryke` ("Friends don't let friends listen to Anti-Flag") |
| 08:25:04 | amiconn | morning |
| 08:26:16 | Rick | LinusN: nifty. Don't get anyone killed now. ;) |
| 08:26:27 | LinusN | :-) |
| 08:26:44 | | Join courtc [0] (~courtc@adsl-158-11-197.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 08:31:15 | LinusN | Rick: i can imagine myself, in the ambulance after an accident |
| 08:31:32 | LinusN | "don't....push...THAT...button...." |
| 08:35:16 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 08:35:55 | | Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 08:37:19 | | Quit Strath (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 08:38:59 | Rick | haha :) |
| 08:42:54 | | Join Aison [0] (~hans@zux166-181.adsl.green.ch) |
| 09:00 |
| 09:01:53 | | Nick Lynx_awy is now known as Lynx_ (HydraIRC@134.95.189.59) |
| 09:02:24 | Lynx_ | LinusN: do you put easter eggs in? Like if a certain button sequence is pressed tetris comes up on the screen? ;) |
| 09:02:51 | | Join einhirn [0] (Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de) |
| 09:03:20 | LinusN | Lynx_: hehe, i wouldn't dare to |
| 09:03:34 | LinusN | still, it would be really nice to be able to play games on it |
| 09:03:59 | LinusN | 800x600 color TFT |
| 09:04:23 | LinusN | touch screen |
| 09:06:32 | Lynx_ | i dunno, medical instruments with soo much done in software scare me ;) |
| 09:07:02 | LinusN | me too :-) |
| 09:07:55 | LinusN | however, the testing is rigorous, to say the least |
| 09:09:05 | Lynx_ | yes, one would assume so. i guess a company could not recover from a device that kills a few patients. |
| 09:15:58 | dwihno | is there a simple way to keep track of changed .h files (dependencies?) in a GNU Makefile? |
| 09:16:17 | Bagder | gcc -MM |
| 09:16:26 | Bagder | but no |
| 09:16:50 | Bagder | you can check the rockbox makefiles for one way of doing it |
| 09:35:05 | dwihno | I can't understand that DEPFILE magic |
| 09:37:02 | Bagder | what parts? |
| 09:37:22 | Bagder | the makfile does include on DEPFILE, so if there is none it will be rebuilt by the depfile rule |
| 09:37:54 | Bagder | DEPFILE als depends on SOURCES, so if any source is modified a new depfile is generated |
| 09:38:01 | dwihno | ah. |
| 09:38:23 | dwihno | Nice hack |
| 09:39:15 | Bagder | and the depfile generation uses gcc -MM to make the dependencies for each file |
| 09:41:10 | dwihno | I guess a batchfile might do the trick on this XP box |
| 09:42:13 | Bagder | if that's ok, and you use a gcc you can just do "gcc -MM *.c" more or less |
| 09:42:18 | Bagder | and then include that file in the makefile |
| 09:44:05 | dwihno | How do you accomplish regular file output redirection in makefiles? |
| 09:45:16 | | Join cYmen [0] (~cymen@nat-ph3-wh.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de) |
| 09:45:18 | HCl | *rubs his eyes* |
| 09:45:22 | Bagder | plain > works fine |
| 09:48:46 | dwihno | Hah! |
| 09:48:47 | dwihno | It works! :) |
| 09:49:05 | Bagder | wooo |
| 09:49:23 | dwihno | I don't know the number of times I've been banging my head becuase of snafu caused by a changed h file |
| 09:50:39 | dwihno | thanks a lot! :) |
| 09:51:09 | * | Bagder bows |
| 10:00 |
| 10:16:05 | | Join Harpy [0] (muG3RvwiSH@dsl-hkigw7wbb.dial.inet.fi) |
| 10:19:27 | | Join webguest01 [0] (~5087b7ad@labb.contactor.se) |
| 10:26:15 | | Quit webguest01 ("CGI:IRC") |
| 10:31:15 | | Join ashridah [0] (ashridah@220-253-123-147.VIC.netspace.net.au) |
| 10:32:38 | | Quit Lynx_ (" bbl") |
| 10:33:32 | LinusN | the misticriver linux thread gets more and more amusing |
| 10:34:50 | | Join Lynx_ [0] (HydraIRC@134.95.189.59) |
| 10:34:50 | dwihno | How come? |
| 10:35:04 | Bagder | I love it |
| 10:35:10 | Bagder | dwihno: read it ;-) |
| 10:35:18 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 10:35:42 | dwihno | URL? |
| 10:35:45 | ashridah | anyone got a link to it |
| 10:35:46 | ashridah | ? |
| 10:36:08 | Bagder | http://www.misticriver.net/boards/showthread.php?t=20600 |
| 10:36:40 | LinusN | read and weep |
| 10:39:35 | | Join rasher [0] (~3e4f4094@labb.contactor.se) |
| 10:39:42 | dwihno | :) |
| 10:40:33 | LinusN | the last post pretty much sums it up: "So is a team formed yet for porting Linux?" |
| 10:40:40 | LinusN | as if that matters |
| 10:40:43 | Bagder | hahaha |
| 10:40:53 | dwihno | A good read indeed |
| 10:40:54 | Bagder | "I can be a project leader" ;-) |
| 10:41:04 | Bagder | "I can cheer when other people do hard work" |
| 10:41:07 | rasher | "Me too!!" |
| 10:41:35 | rasher | Those who can, do. Those who can't, post on forums. |
| 10:41:42 | Bagder | hahahaha |
| 10:41:49 | LinusN | "If they do yhat are you going to call yourselfs. |
| 10:41:49 | LinusN | Rockbox have a name so why cant you?" |
| 10:42:17 | Bagder | yes, its the lack of a name that prevents real progres |
| 10:42:30 | LinusN | indeed |
| 10:42:55 | LinusN | oh, and they have found the hardware specs: "h300 hardware specs: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/vi...dwareComponents" |
| 10:43:07 | Bagder | the cooler name, the more work they'll get |
| 10:43:47 | Bagder | so many forumusers, so little clues |
| 10:44:20 | rasher | I don't see any reason to add a "your md5 sum doesn't match any known firmware. Continue?" dialog to fwpatcher |
| 10:44:22 | LinusN | amen |
| 10:44:44 | rasher | people can just use whatever moding tool after patching, can't thye? |
| 10:44:49 | rasher | or am I missing something |
| 10:45:04 | | Quit bangser (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) |
| 10:45:52 | LinusN | rasher: no, it isn't necessary |
| 10:45:58 | LinusN | to add it |
| 10:46:41 | LinusN | in fact, we should probably stay safe |
| 10:46:58 | rasher | I'd say so too |
| 10:47:26 | LinusN | from our perspective, it is more important to prevent bricking than accomodate silly graphic mods |
| 10:47:42 | rasher | they should be happy as well, it adds an extra bit of security for them |
| 10:47:48 | rasher | "well at least this part went well" |
| 11:00 |
| 11:01:05 | ashridah | someone will probably still manage to brick it. |
| 11:01:57 | LinusN | oh yes, but then it wouldn't be our fault |
| 11:03:34 | ashridah | true :) |
| 11:07:13 | | Join Bagder_ [0] (~daniel@1-1-5-26a.hud.sth.bostream.se) |
| 11:12:07 | Rick | Sanitarium |
| 11:12:07 | Rick | Mistic Shabadoo |
| 11:12:07 | Rick | |
| 11:12:07 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK Rick |
| 11:12:07 | Rick | Join Date: Feb 2005 |
| 11:12:07 | Rick | Location: Ireland |
| 11:12:08 | *** | Alert Mode level 1 |
| 11:12:08 | Rick | Posts: 1,010 |
| 11:12:10 | Rick | Quote: |
| 11:12:12 | Rick | Unless there's Linux-emulator thingy which runs a program within windows? |
| 11:12:14 | Rick | You can get WINE to make windows apps to run on windows. |
| 11:12:16 | Rick | ............ |
| 11:12:29 | Rick | gahahahahahahaha? |
| 11:13:39 | Bagder_ | time for a slashdot post "wine running on the iriver h3x0" |
| 11:13:41 | Bagder_ | B-P |
| 11:13:48 | Rick | lol |
| 11:22:09 | *** | Alert Mode OFF |
| 11:24:38 | | Quit Bagder (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 11:25:02 | | Nick Bagder_ is now known as Bagder (~daniel@1-1-5-26a.hud.sth.bostream.se) |
| 11:28:53 | | Quit dwihno (Remote closed the connection) |
| 11:36:04 | | Join dwihno [0] (~dw@81.8.224.89) |
| 11:40:29 | crashd | can anyone explain to me just _why_ forum users are so retarded? |
| 11:41:37 | Bagder | it is just one of those mysteries of the universe |
| 11:41:48 | crashd | *nods* |
| 11:41:49 | ashridah | because it's too easy to use forums |
| 11:43:36 | crashd | yeah |
| 11:45:47 | Ctcp | Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
| 11:45:47 | * | rasher considers a forum with a command-line interface |
| 11:47:56 | ashridah | yeah. maybe we should write one. call it internet relay forum or something |
| 11:48:21 | rasher | shouldn't be too hard actually, might be an amusing project |
| 11:49:08 | Bagder | then I could write a web based front end! :-P |
| 11:49:44 | rasher | Then we'd have to kill you. |
| 11:50:47 | Bagder | fair enough |
| 11:53:48 | rasher | actually I meant a web-based thing, with just a text-input field at the bottom, and an iframe or something where all info appeared |
| 11:54:13 | rasher | and NO CLICKY LINKS |
| 11:59:30 | | Join Lost-ash [0] (ashridah@220-253-121-212.VIC.netspace.net.au) |
| 12:00 |
| 12:03:48 | LinusN | no avatars? |
| 12:03:51 | LinusN | bleh! |
| 12:04:25 | Lynx_ | no animated gifs? |
| 12:04:34 | LinusN | avatars and ranking are the two most important features in a forum :-) |
| 12:04:54 | LinusN | i'm a "Mistic Surveyor" |
| 12:05:09 | Bagder | haha |
| 12:05:09 | LinusN | posting like hell to get to the next level :-) |
| 12:05:19 | Lynx_ | where does that name mistic river come from anyway? |
| 12:05:56 | Lynx_ | LinusN: hehe, the system rewards quantity not quality, eh? |
| 12:07:24 | LinusN | i think it may be a pun on the Mystic River film, with the "i" symbolizing the iriver |
| 12:08:35 | Lynx_ | weird choice if that's it, the film ist not exacly a comedy |
| 12:08:47 | Lynx_ | exactly* |
| 12:12:27 | | Quit ashridah (Nick collision from services.) |
| 12:12:28 | | Nick Lost-ash is now known as ashridah (ashridah@220-253-121-212.VIC.netspace.net.au) |
| 12:19:51 | | Join Moos [0] (MoosCamaro@m214.net81-66-158.noos.fr) |
| 12:24:51 | | Join preglow [0] (thomj@s183a.studby.ntnu.no) |
| 12:26:53 | HCl | yay. |
| 12:27:05 | HCl | compiler building is such a fun course :3 |
| 12:27:15 | preglow | i don't know... |
| 12:27:20 | HCl | mm? |
| 12:27:27 | HCl | don't know compiler building or don't know whether its fun? |
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| 12:30:38 | | Join thegeek [0] (na@ti521110a080-2846.bb.online.no) |
| 12:31:57 | preglow | ahh |
| 12:32:02 | preglow | don't know if its fun |
| 12:32:12 | preglow | can't say i've really made many compilers either, though |
| 12:32:42 | ashridah | wish my course offered it. theyditched it ages back. |
| 12:34:09 | ashridah | of course, i'd be hard pressed justifying it to myself. |
| 12:35:20 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 13:00 |
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| 14:00 |
| 14:07:59 | | Join dapureplaya [0] (~anon@CPE-144-136-73-75.nsw.bigpond.net.au) |
| 14:08:29 | dapureplaya | uh. Word everyone! hehe. |
| 14:08:36 | LinusN | yo yo yo |
| 14:13:51 | dapureplaya | Hey Linus! Been tracking progress on iRiver porting heaps. Big ups on it. So....is it reasonable to ask you how the progress on audio playback on the iRiver porting? ;p |
| 14:14:51 | LinusN | no progress lately, been swamped with work and real life |
| 14:15:18 | dapureplaya | ah fair enough. We all do |
| 14:20:02 | | Part dapureplaya |
| 14:25:53 | | Join tvelocity [0] (~tony@ipa98.1.tellas.gr) |
| 14:29:41 | * | HCl slaps abit |
| 14:29:47 | HCl | they suck :/ |
| 14:34:39 | | Quit lostlogic ("Going to the moon") |
| 14:35:22 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 14:38:31 | | Join Aditya [0] (~Aditya@69.140.96.191) |
| 14:55:26 | | Join Musicmad [0] (~Musicmad@80.164.173.14) |
| 14:58:00 | Bagder | http://www.f-secure.com/v-descs/sober_q.shtml <= the german mail virus thing |
| 14:59:56 | HCl | yea |
| 14:59:59 | HCl | the link it spammed |
| 15:00 |
| 15:00:02 | HCl | also said it was a virus |
| 15:00:30 | Bagder | the link? it sends many links |
| 15:00:41 | HCl | m, i guess my mailfilter filtered most out then |
| 15:00:42 | HCl | o.o |
| 15:05:17 | | Nick StrathAFK is now known as Strath (~mike@dgvlwinas01pool0-a217.wi.tds.net) |
| 15:10:23 | | Nick QT_ is now known as QT (as@area51.users.madwifi) |
| 15:14:10 | | Part LinusN |
| 15:29:46 | Lynx_ | Bagder: seem like i was right, the virus does also get the mail adresses from browser caches. there's your likely explanation :) |
| 15:30:02 | Bagder | yeps |
| 15:34:55 | Musicmad | q.: is gapless playback simply a matter of stripping 0 at the end and start of files? The iriver firmware (original) tries to do this I think, but it doesn't work really. |
| 15:35:36 | Bagder | so how do you know that it tries to do that? |
| 15:36:13 | Musicmad | it has a "gapless playback" feature that was described as doing just that? |
| 15:36:33 | Bagder | it does? |
| 15:36:51 | Bagder | where's that described? |
| 15:37:04 | Musicmad | I'll try to find it - hold on. |
| 15:37:58 | Bagder | but yes, the general idea is like that |
| 15:39:12 | * | Musicmad is navigating iriver flash site from hell. |
| 15:42:03 | Musicmad | Delete Gaps Between Songs (MENU > CONTROL > GAP DELETE) |
| 15:42:03 | Musicmad | When an extended period of silence is detected at the end of a song, this function will automatically jump to the beginning of the next song. Selecting the setting to ON will activate this function. |
| 15:42:28 | Musicmad | it doesn't say anything about deleting preceeding zeors though. hm.. |
| 15:42:35 | Musicmad | zeros |
| 15:46:35 | CoCoLUS | well whatever is does, it obviously doesn't work. |
| 15:46:43 | amiconn | I wouldn't call this gapless playback, but gap removal. |
| 15:46:57 | CoCoLUS | thats why its called gap delete ;) |
| 15:47:13 | amiconn | It tries to remove (possibly) intentional gaps, while gapless playback only tries not to add gaps |
| 15:47:49 | amiconn | And afaik even gap delete doesn't really work in the iriver fw |
| 15:50:27 | Musicmad | ok - I just cut a continous wav file in two. There was still a noticable "gap" between them when played on the iriver. |
| 15:51:04 | Musicmad | the rockbox fw might behave differently but might be that some buffering is needed too. |
| 15:51:19 | Bagder | buffering? |
| 15:52:00 | Musicmad | so the start of the next file is readily available when it's needed. |
| 15:52:04 | Bagder | and I wouldn't say "might", we won't be happy unless we fix it |
| 15:52:12 | | Join ripnetuk [0] (~george@82-70-100-230.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 15:52:17 | Bagder | well of course it will be |
| 15:52:35 | Bagder | loading of encoded data will be done well ahead |
| 15:53:23 | Musicmad | ok - I'm not qualified to say anything about implementation really. Just saying that the iriver fw doesn't work gapless even on "gapless" files. |
| 15:53:46 | Bagder | we're perfectly aware of that! ;-) |
| 15:53:55 | Musicmad | hehe :D |
| 15:54:18 | Bagder | but we plan on making it work |
| 15:54:35 | Musicmad | it's excellent plan :) |
| 15:54:40 | Bagder | hehe |
| 15:54:42 | Musicmad | "an excellent plan" even |
| 15:56:24 | Bagder | the code that fills the PCM buffer will have to make sure that it adds no silence |
| 15:56:35 | Bagder | and the start/end of a song |
| 15:56:44 | Musicmad | are data send in packets to the DAC? |
| 15:57:22 | Bagder | yes/no, it is sent with DMA that gets a pointer and size |
| 15:58:41 | preglow | don't worry, we'll support proper gapless |
| 15:58:56 | HCl | i'd want an option to add gaps though :P |
| 15:58:59 | preglow | we don't delete zeros, we'll just use the proper song length if it's available |
| 15:59:14 | preglow | for mp3s without that, you'll probably just have to live with a tiny, tiny gap |
| 15:59:47 | Bagder | mp3s are likely to have a partial last frame unless −−nogap'ed, right? |
| 15:59:57 | preglow | yes |
| 16:00 |
| 16:00:08 | CoCoLUS | how does foobar manage gapless playback? |
| 16:00:09 | preglow | and the last part of the frame will almost certainly not be zero |
| 16:00:12 | preglow | CoCoLUS: like i say |
| 16:00:18 | CoCoLUS | i never noticed any gap between mp3s with foobar |
| 16:00:28 | preglow | CoCoLUS: foobar doesn't manage mp3s without correct song length info either |
| 16:00:34 | preglow | CoCoLUS: you will here a tiny, tiny gap |
| 16:00:40 | preglow | hear |
| 16:00:50 | preglow | but most mp3s have correct song length info these days |
| 16:00:56 | CoCoLUS | i don't. maybe my hearing is bad ;) |
| 16:01:00 | HCl | good |
| 16:01:04 | HCl | i want to store that in the database anyways |
| 16:01:11 | Bagder | then again pc players can deal with bad timing info pretty good |
| 16:01:14 | HCl | for searches on songlength and more |
| 16:01:28 | Musicmad | I guess the cpu doesn't have the juice to do crossfading right? |
| 16:01:47 | CoCoLUS | isn't crossfading just volume down/up ? |
| 16:01:50 | Bagder | we'll have to wait and see |
| 16:01:55 | preglow | crossfading? |
| 16:02:03 | preglow | it should be able to, in theory |
| 16:02:06 | Bagder | CoCoLUS: one goes down while the other goes up, yes |
| 16:02:20 | preglow | and depending on the codec, i guess, i don't think we'll be able to crossfade a vorbis and an aac file, for example |
| 16:02:38 | Musicmad | preglow: hehe that is probably not a problem. |
| 16:03:02 | Bagder | multi-codec is gonna be hairy already without that ;-) |
| 16:03:52 | CoCoLUS | gapless playback is way more important anyway |
| 16:04:08 | preglow | why, agreed |
| 16:04:26 | Musicmad | I'm not gonna listen to "the wall" without it... |
| 16:04:30 | preglow | i've realized i'll never be able to do beatmatching on a h120 anyway, so i don't care about crossfading anymore :PP |
| 16:04:41 | Musicmad | hehe |
| 16:04:56 | HCl | beatmatching? |
| 16:04:59 | CoCoLUS | what about that personal vocoder project? ;) |
| 16:05:16 | preglow | CoCoLUS: when the infrastructure is in place |
| 16:05:22 | preglow | HCl: what about it? |
| 16:05:22 | Bagder | HCl: "stretching" the new song to have beats in synch with the already playing one |
| 16:05:45 | HCl | ah |
| 16:05:46 | preglow | it's really necessary for a good fade |
| 16:06:04 | preglow | but it's of course very nearly impossible to do automatically |
| 16:06:22 | preglow | it's not exactly easy to do by hand either |
| 16:06:42 | Bagder | there are pc-based players that are fairly good at it, I've heard |
| 16:07:01 | preglow | really? you wouldn't happen to have any names? |
| 16:07:08 | Musicmad | tractor maybe? |
| 16:07:10 | Bagder | no |
| 16:07:14 | CoCoLUS | bpm studio? |
| 16:07:17 | Musicmad | from native instruments. |
| 16:07:19 | preglow | traktor is manual |
| 16:07:24 | Musicmad | really? |
| 16:07:50 | preglow | well, i sure didn't see a 'beat match automatically please' button when i used it yesterday |
| 16:08:06 | Musicmad | hehe sorry. I thought it had something build in. |
| 16:08:13 | preglow | you have to adjust bpm and cue stuff yourself |
| 16:08:28 | preglow | which is very hard without a control surface, heh |
| 16:08:47 | * | preglow wants final scratch |
| 16:12:37 | Musicmad | don't know it but this one seems to do auto beatmatching: http://www.mixmeister.com/products_mmpro6.html |
| 16:13:54 | preglow | i'd still like to see it work, it's pretty complex to get right |
| 16:14:16 | Musicmad | I bet |
| 16:14:39 | preglow | hell, just detecting the right bmp can be pretty complex |
| 16:14:45 | HCl | yea, i was just about to say. |
| 16:14:45 | preglow | bpm |
| 16:14:53 | HCl | getting the bpm is far from trivial |
| 16:14:59 | HCl | even professional programs i have for it get it wrong |
| 16:15:02 | HCl | and i have to sync it myself |
| 16:15:05 | preglow | even traktor's guesses are far off sometimes, and that's pretty pro |
| 16:15:07 | Musicmad | I guess you can just hit the flanger and try to look cool instead :) |
| 16:15:16 | preglow | hahah |
| 16:17:50 | preglow | i'll be more than happy with just gapless playback |
| 16:18:27 | Musicmad | yeah |
| 16:19:01 | Musicmad | is there any build that supports the radio on the iriver? |
| 16:19:03 | preglow | so i can actually listen to mixes without cringing with irritation every time there's a new track |
| 16:19:10 | HCl | not yet |
| 16:19:14 | HCl | austriancoder is working on it |
| 16:19:19 | Musicmad | wonderful |
| 16:19:36 | | Nick tvelocity is now known as tvelocity[away] (~tony@ipa98.1.tellas.gr) |
| 16:20:15 | Musicmad | it would be great if presets could be stored on the HD. I hate how everything is reset when you flash the iriver. |
| 16:20:31 | preglow | they very probably will be |
| 16:20:34 | Bagder | yes |
| 16:20:38 | preglow | all settings are saved to disk as it is |
| 16:21:19 | Musicmad | perfect |
| 16:22:11 | ashridah | of course, the rockbox team bump the version number of the config every few weeks, invaliding the config :) |
| 16:22:19 | amiconn | Haha |
| 16:22:36 | Bagder | the fm presets aren't in that one, are they? |
| 16:22:36 | ashridah | i |
| 16:23:01 | amiconn | Sometimes this is necessary, but you can always write the settings to a config file before installing such an update, and reload afterwards |
| 16:23:20 | ashridah | amiconn: yeah, assumign you know it's going to happen. which you might not if you're tracking cvs HEAD |
| 16:23:24 | amiconn | Bagder: No, they're in a file under /.rockbox |
| 16:23:39 | Bagder | right, I thought so! ;-) |
| 16:24:05 | amiconn | ashridah: Last time that happened it was caused by me, and I did mention it in the commit message |
| 16:24:33 | Bagder | it is meant to hurt on the bleeding edge ;*) |
| 16:24:43 | ashridah | amiconn: yeah, i know. still caught me out tho, since i'm kinda just a slavish 'compile. install. reboot it, it works. yay!... where did my settings go? %$!@#$%' sort of person :) |
| 16:25:03 | Bagder | I have a few fine sets saved |
| 16:25:08 | Bagder | that I reload when that happens |
| 16:25:28 | ashridah | mm. if i started using rockbox fulltime, i'd probably do the same. |
| 16:26:03 | | Quit ashridah ("Leaving") |
| 16:26:28 | amiconn | Imho we should switch to also using plaintext cfg files for the main settings one day |
| 16:26:39 | HCl | xml :) |
| 16:26:42 | preglow | ahahaha |
| 16:26:44 | * | preglow kicks xml |
| 16:26:52 | HCl | whats wrong with it ? :p |
| 16:26:53 | Bagder | amiconn: yes, as has been discussed for years ;-) |
| 16:27:08 | amiconn | ..except the settings part that's stored in the rtc ram |
| 16:27:14 | Bagder | yes |
| 16:27:23 | Bagder | those that are saved very frequently |
| 16:27:34 | amiconn | Hmm |
| 16:27:59 | amiconn | What about the frequently changed settings on devices without rtc? |
| 16:28:07 | amiconn | ...e.g. iriver :P |
| 16:28:15 | Bagder | in that sector thing |
| 16:28:31 | preglow | crashd: gotten any further? |
| 16:28:32 | amiconn | The config sector solution isn't that nice |
| 16:28:41 | amiconn | It has several problems |
| 16:28:43 | Bagder | amiconn: you have a better idea? |
| 16:29:25 | HCl | why don't we use a config file anyways? |
| 16:29:51 | Bagder | because of the frequent saves |
| 16:30:04 | HCl | why does it save so frequently then? o.o |
| 16:30:22 | amiconn | HCl: Resume position, runtime.... |
| 16:30:54 | amiconn | Bagder: What about keeping the binary data idea, but using a file for it? |
| 16:31:07 | HCl | yea, thats what i said o.o |
| 16:31:22 | Bagder | I don't see the point of binary even we're going for an actual file |
| 16:31:27 | Bagder | when we're |
| 16:31:28 | amiconn | The archos Ondio firmware seems to do that; it saves settings in a file called /ONDIOST.BIN |
| 16:31:51 | Bagder | as I see it, the drawback with files is that it is a file involving FAT etc |
| 16:31:59 | Bagder | not that it is text |
| 16:32:20 | amiconn | Bagder: A binary file could be one sector long. The sector position could be cached on open |
| 16:32:35 | Bagder | still, I would find that a very minor gain |
| 16:32:36 | amiconn | ...and then used the same way as the special sector is now |
| 16:33:05 | amiconn | Hmm, it would need a measure against deleting that file, or at least detect this |
| 16:34:43 | HCl | doesn't iriver have a tiny rom for config settings? |
| 16:35:25 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 16:35:29 | amiconn | The config sector has at least 3 disadvantages: (1) It is impossible with superfloppy disk layout. |
| 16:36:12 | amiconn | (2) Even with a partitioned disk layout, it might be overwritten by other software which expects this area to be free. There actually was one such report on a mac with a few sectors per track layout |
| 16:36:33 | amiconn | (3) There's no easy way to delete the config sector from the PC |
| 16:36:54 | HCl | (4) its a nasty hack |
| 16:37:09 | amiconn | The tiny rom might be an option on iriver |
| 16:37:24 | Bagder | it has advantages too |
| 16:37:28 | amiconn | However, we need to keep an eye on flash wear |
| 16:38:14 | amiconn | [IDC]Dragon had the idea to use the last flash sector on rtc-less units. Same problem here, plus not all archoses are flashable |
| 16:39:21 | | Quit xen` () |
| 16:39:23 | preglow | the eeprom should sustain HEAVY use |
| 16:40:04 | amiconn | Is this eeprom used by the iriver fw? |
| 16:40:09 | HCl | yes. |
| 16:40:10 | preglow | i believe so |
| 16:40:17 | HCl | otherwise, why on earth would they put it in :P |
| 16:40:28 | preglow | for those of us who don't care about the iriver fw, this should be usable by rockbox |
| 16:40:33 | HCl | yup |
| 16:40:43 | HCl | and even then |
| 16:40:49 | HCl | you could have an "iriver rom restore" thing |
| 16:41:04 | preglow | just a eeprom burner plugin will do |
| 16:41:06 | preglow | heh |
| 16:41:14 | preglow | and will enable you to use it for all kinds of sick things |
| 16:41:41 | amiconn | My bigger concern is that the iriver fw will probably overwrite the rockbox settings |
| 16:42:00 | amiconn | ...which is not exactly what I'd want |
| 16:42:10 | preglow | well, that's what you get for starting the iriver fw |
| 16:42:10 | preglow | heh |
| 16:42:56 | preglow | it'd be a nice option, though |
| 16:43:05 | HCl | we could have a bootloader check for that. |
| 16:43:10 | HCl | even have the bootloader switch. |
| 16:43:15 | HCl | the eeprom contents |
| 16:43:36 | preglow | i don't think we should rely on the bootloader for functionality like that |
| 16:43:47 | HCl | it depends on what you want, then. |
| 16:43:55 | preglow | altogether i think we should concentrate on modifying it as little as possible, heh |
| 16:43:56 | HCl | you'd at least have to add protection against launching the wrong one |
| 16:43:58 | HCl | with the wrong eeprom |
| 16:44:12 | preglow | i plan to have that done by erasing the iriver fw :P |
| 16:44:20 | preglow | i assume there'll be a rombox for iriver once |
| 16:45:38 | preglow | once = one day |
| 16:49:01 | crashd | preglow: i think i can disassemble the thumb stuff using an updated ida ;) |
| 16:49:09 | crashd | bbl |
| 16:49:28 | preglow | argh |
| 16:49:57 | preglow | rockbox on h10 will almost certainly mean i'll be getting one |
| 16:50:29 | HCl | m? |
| 16:50:36 | HCl | i thought it was closed platform? |
| 16:51:01 | Bagder | yes, it is harder than the h1x0 and h3x0 |
| 16:51:32 | Bagder | probably requires more disassembling and trial and error, but less data sheet reading ;-) |
| 16:51:52 | HCl | i prefer data sheet reading |
| 16:51:53 | HCl | heh. |
| 16:51:54 | preglow | i spent a couple of hours yesterday helping crashd deciphering a disassembly of what i think is the flash decryption routine |
| 16:52:14 | preglow | and now i want to learn arm assembly |
| 16:52:36 | preglow | what the hell makes me actually WANT to learn another assembly language, i don't know |
| 16:52:41 | preglow | must be the part of me that's self-destructive |
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| 18:52:12 | dys | hi, |
| 18:52:41 | dys | i have a couple of mc1488/9 serial line drivers here, and am not sure, if i can connect them to the coldfire's uart |
| 18:52:56 | dys | the datasheet seems to be a bit ambigious to me |
| 18:53:10 | dys | it says the maximum rating for input high voltage is 5.5 |
| 18:53:20 | preglow | the coldfire ones are 3.3, i guess |
| 18:53:38 | dys | hmm |
| 18:53:59 | dys | ack, it also says "maximum rating for i/o operating voltage is 3.6" |
| 18:58:26 | dys | but it sure is confusing that they specify the "maximum input high voltage" with 5.5 volts, if 3.6 V would be the upper bound... |
| 18:58:58 | dys | i'm just afraid to figure it out by trial-and-error |
| 18:59:12 | preglow | well, i have no idea |
| 18:59:34 | preglow | the only level convertors i've used have been fixed voltage |
| 19:00 |
| 19:02:44 | amiconn | Maximum rating means exactly that - it's the maximum that does just not destroy the chip |
| 19:03:19 | amiconn | It's always different (higher) than the operating conditions |
| 19:03:32 | dys | so i definately got to drop ttl down to 3.3 volts? |
| 19:03:45 | amiconn | ttl? |
| 19:04:02 | dys | the mc1489 serial receiver has ttl output |
| 19:04:07 | amiconn | Ahh |
| 19:04:21 | dys | aka high = 5 volts |
| 19:04:26 | amiconn | Hmm, would need to check the datasheet then |
| 19:04:57 | amiconn | I thought you want to build a serial level converter, converting rs232 (+/- 12 V) to 3.3 V logic levels |
| 19:05:07 | dys | yeah, the datasheet is what is confusing me, because it says the max input voltage is 5.5 volts, and the maximum i/o voltage is 3.6 volts |
| 19:08:11 | amiconn | Seems these chips are designed for 5V operation. You can try to operate them from 3.3V, but maybe they won't work then |
| 19:10:05 | preglow | they probably will work, but with smaller margins |
| 19:12:43 | dys | uups, i was writing about the values in coldfire's datasheet |
| 19:12:50 | dys | is there some misunderstanding going on? |
| 19:12:51 | dys | :-) |
| 19:16:20 | dys | i guess i'll operate the 1488/-9's at 5V and drop the ttl output of the 1489 with 3 diodes, so i'm on the save side |
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| 19:24:49 | stripwax | ello |
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| 19:45:54 | wacky_ | hey guys, where are we at in the development of the structure to make the Rockbox actually play music ? |
| 19:49:47 | stripwax | wacky_ - I take it from the question that you don't own an Archos mp3 player..? |
| 19:51:24 | wacky_ | stripwax - heheh :) sorry.. I mean for the iRiver ? |
| 19:51:58 | preglow | don't know, we have people working on iot |
| 19:52:59 | preglow | but all of us working on it are busy doing other stuff most of the time |
| 20:00 |
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| 20:57:40 | crashd | preglow: not yet, ive been at work/working for most of the day |
| 20:59:30 | crashd | ida 1.8 allegedly handle thumb properly |
| 21:00 |
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| 21:18:28 | I-R-Addict | hmm.. is the uClinux kernel port for the coldfire MCF5249 compatable with the iRiver ? |
| 21:18:42 | Bagder | I doubt that |
| 21:19:02 | Bagder | is it really for the 5249? |
| 21:19:34 | I-R-Addict | they have a port for a bunch of motorolla setups |
| 21:19:42 | I-R-Addict | including the 5249 |
| 21:20:07 | Bagder | Linus had to patch binutils to make it do proper code for the 5249 |
| 21:20:25 | Bagder | which would be odd if they had it working |
| 21:20:35 | Bagder | but I don't know the details enough |
| 21:20:50 | I-R-Addict | www.uclinux.org/ports/coldfire/ |
| 21:21:40 | I-R-Addict | no USB device support yet though :/ |
| 21:22:11 | Bagder | we have usb code for the h1x0 chip |
| 21:22:24 | Bagder | its the same as in several of the archos models |
| 21:24:23 | Bagder | a gdb stub for it would be cool |
| 21:25:12 | Rick | why bother getting uclinux running on iriver if we have rockbox? |
| 21:25:33 | crashd | because |
| 21:25:40 | Bagder | I doubt we'll see it happen |
| 21:25:48 | crashd | ipods use the same hardware, and ipodlinux is already running quite well |
| 21:25:49 | Rick | "omg iz teh kewl" |
| 21:26:02 | Bagder | crashd: same as h10, yes |
| 21:26:11 | Bagder | not the coldfire based ones |
| 21:26:12 | crashd | : ] thats what ive been talking about |
| 21:26:15 | crashd | no, not cf |
| 21:26:36 | Rick | we're talking about h1x0 thouhg |
| 21:26:44 | crashd | ah |
| 21:26:46 | crashd | sorry, its bene a long one |
| 21:27:11 | Bagder | but I don't see the point of linux on ipod either... :-) |
| 21:27:19 | Rick | i agree with Bagder |
| 21:27:25 | crashd | same reason you guys are making rockbox |
| 21:27:37 | Bagder | really? |
| 21:27:45 | crashd | well, similar, id wager |
| 21:28:59 | I-R-Addict | personally, i'd like to do.. simply because i can |
| 21:29:12 | I-R-Addict | preferrably, i'd like to run the iriver firmware, uclinux, and rockbox |
| 21:29:18 | I-R-Addict | triple booted iriver |
| 21:29:40 | I-R-Addict | there's no reason why, but no reason why not either |
| 21:30:42 | Bagder | except that more projects means less people in each |
| 21:31:05 | Bagder | but everyone does what they want to |
| 21:32:01 | I-R-Addict | mm.. yes and no, so far rockbox seems to be very similiar to what a clinux distro would be like, other than the fact it doesn't use linux |
| 21:32:22 | I-R-Addict | i'm betting work done on them, could be mostly applied to both |
| 21:32:45 | Bagder | info could be used, software would be completely different |
| 21:32:50 | Bagder | like drivers |
| 21:33:04 | Bagder | and even apps |
| 21:34:41 | I-R-Addict | true |
| 21:37:22 | I-R-Addict | can i use 'dd' to make backup images of the iriver partition scheme before i start playing with it (just in case..) ? |
| 21:37:39 | Bagder | yes you can |
| 21:37:51 | I-R-Addict | excellent |
| 21:43:55 | preglow | i just don' see the point in using linux |
| 21:43:59 | preglow | it's overkill |
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| 21:46:26 | I-R-Addict | no real point to it... |
| 21:47:01 | I-R-Addict | other than telling all my friends my iRiver is running linux |
| 21:47:07 | I-R-Addict | which for some would be reason enough, lol |
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| 21:47:14 | preglow | haha |
| 21:47:33 | preglow | sure, it would be cool |
| 21:49:10 | preglow | but pretty useless nonetheless |
| 21:49:23 | preglow | everything still pretty much needs to be written from scratch |
| 21:50:56 | * | amiconn is experimenting with a 0308 Ondio... |
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| 21:59:43 | I-R-Addict | hmm.. so here's a question for anyone who uses usb storage devices in windows |
| 22:00 |
| 22:00:05 | I-R-Addict | usually when i plugged my iriver in windows, it showed up as J |
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| 22:00:27 | I-R-Addict | yesturday my g/f brought over her player and we had them both plugged in |
| 22:00:31 | I-R-Addict | she got J, i got K |
| 22:00:35 | I-R-Addict | now.. it' |
| 22:00:38 | I-R-Addict | s the next day |
| 22:00:52 | I-R-Addict | several reboots, back and forth between windows and linux since then |
| 22:01:04 | I-R-Addict | and i'm still getting K, for my iRiver, it's skipping J |
| 22:01:11 | preglow | stuff like that happens |
| 22:01:18 | preglow | i don't get it either |
| 22:01:27 | I-R-Addict | lol, figured as much |
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| 22:35:32 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 22:50:38 | HCl | o.o |
| 22:50:41 | HCl | anything happening here? |
| 22:50:43 | preglow | what up |
| 22:50:50 | HCl | got back from a meeting, tired. |
| 22:50:54 | HCl | watching uo |
| 22:50:57 | HCl | bored.. |
| 22:51:05 | preglow | uo? |
| 22:51:10 | HCl | ultima online, its an mmorpg |
| 22:52:27 | amiconn | Bagder: are you around? |
| 22:52:37 | Bagder | yeps |
| 22:53:10 | amiconn | There seem to be some dependency problems |
| 22:53:50 | amiconn | It turned out that the Problems with multivolume + hotswap reported by Trevor aren't hardware problems or rockbox bugs |
| 22:54:02 | HCl | m? |
| 22:54:47 | amiconn | If some config variables are changed (HAVE_MULTIVOLUME and HAVE_HOTSWAP) and you just call 'make' afterwards, not everything gets rebuilt as necessary |
| 22:55:22 | amiconn | 'make clean; make' produced a build which is running fine.... |
| 22:56:05 | Bagder | not much to go on though |
| 22:56:22 | amiconn | ? |
| 22:56:52 | Bagder | you say there's a problem somewhere |
| 22:57:03 | Bagder | and your description indicates that |
| 22:57:09 | Bagder | but it isn't easy to tell where/why |
| 22:57:12 | amiconn | Maybe I should compare the compile output to find what doesn't get rebuolt |
| 22:57:20 | amiconn | *rebuilt |
| 22:57:34 | Bagder | that would help a lot |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:32 | Bagder | I'm off for tonight though, see ya tomorrow |
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| 23:41:15 | HCl | bored... |
| 23:43:55 | amiconn | I suggest starting to code the rockboy asm cpu core... ;-) |
| 23:44:06 | HCl | too tired :p |
| 23:44:08 | HCl | plus |
| 23:44:16 | HCl | my priority list is database first |
| 23:44:33 | HCl | technically, the editor has two different editing modes that i should enable |
| 23:44:42 | HCl | but on the other side, i feel the current editing mode is fine |
| 23:44:52 | amiconn | Yes, but you also say database is held because non-working playback |
| 23:46:26 | HCl | yup. |
| 23:46:33 | HCl | though the simulators work. |
| 23:46:40 | HCl | also, class is gonna take some time |
| 23:46:47 | HCl | compiler building is more important than rockbox |
| 23:47:01 | amiconn | Sif you can't work on your pri #1, you could work on pri #2 instead |
| 23:47:06 | amiconn | *So if |
| 23:47:22 | HCl | my pri #2 would probably be the songdb.pl script, or rockbeans |
| 23:47:26 | amiconn | Build a compiler for rockbox ;-) |
| 23:47:30 | HCl | rockboy is the lowest.. |
| 23:47:38 | HCl | i already have. the searchengine is technically an interpreter. |
| 23:47:58 | HCl | it uses theory from compiler class :) |
| 23:48:13 | * | amiconn imagines searchengine with dynarec ;) |
| 23:48:23 | HCl | possible. not very useful |
| 23:48:30 | amiconn | sure |
| 23:48:31 | HCl | it will literally provide 0 gain :) |
| 23:50:33 | * | HCl should be reading up on the jvm... |
| 23:50:48 | HCl | if we make our compiler create jvm bytecode, we get 1 point extra on our grade |
| 23:52:05 | amiconn | urgs |
| 23:52:14 | * | amiconn doesn't like java |
| 23:53:24 | HCl | why not? |
| 23:53:29 | HCl | its a great language, really. |
| 23:53:37 | HCl | almost all bugs are removed compile time |
| 23:54:04 | HCl | ofcourse if you don't know oo java is pretty useless :p |
| 23:56:36 | amiconn | I don't like it for 2 reasons. (1) It's much too oo for my taste. (2) All java apps I've seen run dead slow |
icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).