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#rockbox log for 2005-05-20

00:11:44 Join Aditya [0] (
00:22:06 Quit Harpy (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
00:25:52 Quit Sucka ("a bird in the bush is worth two in your house")
00:36:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:39:27 Join textchimp [0] (
00:40:33MoosCamaro]RowaN[: what's about your partition? anyone here involved in the iRiver port of Rockbox?
00:46:49 Join TCK [0] (
00:47:46]RowaN[moos: my partition?
00:48:11]RowaN[<Rick> I remember someone else saying they were having hd problems and after taking the hd out and plugging it back in
00:48:11]RowaN[<Rick> it worked properly again
00:48:14]RowaN[mite have to try that
00:48:37]RowaN[as many files seem unreadable
00:48:46MoosCamarohave you got format your disc?
00:49:10]RowaN[i dont want to format it coz i cant backup the contents
00:49:27]RowaN[crc error copying a lotta files
00:49:40MoosCamaroit's problem
00:50:27MoosCamarohave you got cd writer?
00:51:22]RowaN[i cant backup the files, because they wont copy off of the iriver
00:51:34MoosCamaroin pc?
00:51:59]RowaN[the cd writer (dvd writer) is in the pc yes.. not in my fridge freezer
00:52:40MoosCamaro:) i talk about copying files
00:53:22MoosCamaroif you enter in usb mode, iriver is pluged?
00:53:57textchimpyou guys are talking about the iriver?
00:54:03 Join DMJC [0] (
00:54:11]RowaN[moos bro u need to learn better english
00:54:31MoosCamaroi know, but i don't like it :)
00:54:58MoosCamaroi'm french
00:55:24 Join ashridah [0] (
00:55:31]RowaN[rick: ive opened it up.. what am i supposed to do.. disconnect the ide cable or the battery or what?
00:57:37 Join mst [0] (~lol@
00:58:24Rick]RowaN[: well, i'd make sure the ide cable and battery are secure
00:58:26Rickeg: not loose
01:04:13 Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection)
01:05:26 Quit Aison ("( :: NoNameScript 3.72 :: )")
01:06:43]RowaN[hmm well, its pretty impossible for the hd to come loose, its not on a ribbon cable, theres no where for the connector to move
01:07:07]RowaN[and as for power, the battery has wires soldered the the pcb so im guessing it'd be all or nothing
01:07:18 Quit gromit` (Remote closed the connection)
01:08:50HClugh that sucked.
01:09:18*HCl tried to unscrew a lightbulb, and the bulb got loose from the iron fitting, which stayed stuck in his ceiling, and then a lot of crap came out while removing it >.<
01:23:48I-R-Addictwhelp, that'll teach you.. you need two people to unscrew a lightbulb, one to unscrew it, and one to get hit by the crap that comes out ..
01:24:00textchimpwhat do i need to be able to do to contribute to the rockbox port to the iRiver?
01:24:17I-R-Addictlearn a programming language, and get coding
01:25:22textchimpwhich language? do i need to know electronics/assembler?
01:25:30ashridahHCl: fuck, that's happened to me in my room here too. i still can't get the fucking thing out of the socket
01:25:35I-R-Addictmost of the project is being written in C
01:25:54I-R-Addictthey have all the schematics on the website
01:25:59I-R-Addictand technical information needed
01:26:02textchimpbut the porting to different hardware must involve low-level chip programming?
01:26:04I-R-Addictplus already developed source
01:26:42I-R-Addictbut as far as i know
01:26:53I-R-Addictthe kernel has been written for the iriver hardware
01:27:06I-R-Addictmost of whats left is the C code to do something with it
01:27:46textchimpwhere do i begin? there's a PC emulator for testing isn't there?
01:27:55ashridahsimulator, yes.
01:28:01I-R-Addictmm.. there's no emulator of the iriver specifically
01:28:04ashridahit's not an emulator
01:28:13I-R-Addictbut there is an emulator of the motorolla CPU it uses, and the testing board
01:28:20I-R-Addictahh yea
01:28:25*I-R-Addict stands corrected
01:29:36textchimpso i'd test any changes on the simulator without needing to update the actual player firmware?
01:30:17I-R-Addicti don't know the answer to that one, i been stickin in here learning about whats goin on before i start writing
01:30:25I-R-Addicti haven't got there yet
01:31:10ashridahtextchimp: the simulator is good for interface and plugin development.
01:31:26ashridahit's of limited use when it comes to optimisation or hardware specific stuff
01:31:49textchimpso it's no use for getting the sound to work on the iriver port?
01:32:00ashridahbut plugins are probably a good place to start, if you're not familiar with embedded development
01:32:34textchimpi'm also wondering if the behaviour of the bootloader can be easily changed, so it loads the old firmware by default, and loads rockbox if you press Rec+Play when turning it on
01:32:43textchimpashridah: i
01:33:16ashridahtextchimp: that change could be made, but you'd want to be careful about it, since currently CVS head bootloader bricks the player, iirc.
01:33:18textchimpashridah: i'm most interested in getting the iriver port working with that a plugin?
01:33:42textchimphmm, okay i'll avoid the bootloader change
01:33:51ashridahaudio decoders are tho
01:34:11ashridahand several of them need optimisation still
01:34:22textchimpthe audio decoder is the issue, isn't it? the iriver is a software decoder
01:34:22ashridahaudio playback involves developing a decent system for buffering output
01:34:39ashridahwhich is a contentious issue, complicated, and iirc, plans are only just starting to come together
01:35:00textchimpi see
01:35:06ashridahtextchimp: no, we've got several audio decoders running over 100% realtime. it's buffering/watermarking that's the issue
01:35:14I-R-Addictif only iRiver would let you see how they did it eh :/
01:35:33textchimpah okay
01:35:42I-R-Addicti dunno what they would be worried about, its not like by knowing their firmware your gunna go design the iRiver2 or some shit
01:35:44textchimpi-r-addict: i'd think they'd realise it's in their interests to help
01:35:57ashridahI-R-Addict: that's not really necessary. and might well be detrimental
01:36:12ashridahsince their design clearly doesn't support seamless playback across song boundaries
01:36:19textchimphaha true
01:36:23I-R-Addictthis is true
01:36:26DMJCmaybe they figure they'd be competing against their old stock
01:36:30ashridahI-R-Addict: there are many players based on the coldfire microprocessors
01:36:37textchimpi guess it would be hard to do much worse than their firmware
01:36:37DMJCwhen their goal is to sell 300 series
01:36:48ashridahbut yeah, DMJC is right, the Hxxx range is effectively old news to them
01:37:03I-R-Addict300 series sux compared to 1xx series
01:37:11I-R-Addictcolor display.. bah.. so what
01:37:38DMJC300 should've had black and white... battery would last even longer...
01:37:42textchimpashridah: but can i install rockbox on my iriver at the moment without fear of killing it? just by getting the current version from the site?
01:37:55DMJCyou gotta build it yourself
01:38:05DMJCbut the flashing seems to work without trashing
01:38:09ashridahDMJC: no, he shouldn't build the bootloader himself
01:38:09DMJCat least on 140's
01:38:14DMJCdunno about 120's
01:38:17ashridahthe one on the site works fine here
01:38:24textchimpokay mine's a 120
01:38:35DMJCthere wasn't one on the site when I flashed mine
01:38:36textchimpashridah: what's your model?
01:39:10ashridahfor all intents and purposes, the H120 and H140 are the same. it's the H110 that's markedly different
01:39:31ashridahbut there should be some mention on the site if the H120 has been tested with the current iteration of the bootloader.
01:39:40DMJCany way to upgrade the original firmware without wiping out rockbox?
01:39:57DMJC1.65 got released a while back.. still on 1.63
01:40:13textchimpashridah: which bootloader would i be getting from the site? can i get the one that works with the iriver?
01:40:16ashridahDMJC: 1.65 had a bug with the ogg decoder for a while when used with rockbox's loader
01:40:19ashridahbut they've sorted that
01:40:24ashridahi'm using 1.65 now, just fine
01:40:44I-R-Addict[17:42] <ashridah> DMJC: 1.65 had a bug with the ogg decoder for a while when used with rockbox's loader
01:40:48I-R-Addictso they're aware of rockbox ?
01:41:10DMJCnot neccessarily
01:41:11ashridahI-R-Addict: it'd be hard for them not to be, but it wasn't deliberate, it was a bug on rockbox's side iirc
01:41:39ashridahrockbox trod where it wasn't supposed to. luckily, all that broke was the ogg decoder
01:44:06textchimpashridah: do you know if the current stable bootloader from the site is safe for use with the iriver?
01:49:13ashridahit works for me
01:54:45]RowaN[anyone know a prog i can use to copy all the readable files from my iriver hd to my pc? explorer just dies as soon as it finds 1 unreadable file instead of trying the rest
01:57:36I-R-Addictuse a knoppix CD
01:57:37I-R-Addictor linux
01:57:44I-R-Addictif u have dual boot
01:58:10ashridah]RowaN[: try xcopy32 in a dos window? it might be able to ignore unreadable files, with a bit of luck.
01:58:15I-R-Addictprolly might do a better job of reading it as well
01:58:20*ashridah forgets the various options to xcopy
01:58:43textchimphow does an unreadable file get created?
01:58:57I-R-Addictisn't the explorer copy function just a frontend to xcopy ?
01:59:28textchimpcan anyone confirm that the RESET button thing on the iriver doesn't erase the hard drive? it just forces a power down, is that right?
01:59:40]RowaN[did it myself today heh
02:03:06ashridahI-R-Addict: well, no.
02:03:25textchimpi thought the manual said it cleared the HD
02:03:25ashridahI-R-Addict: there'd be little value in doing something like that, when xcopy would be operating in a 16bit process space (don't let the name fool you, it's still a dos util)
02:03:25ashridahtextchimp: it definently doesn't.
02:04:03 Quit CoCoLUS (
02:04:03 Quit Slasheri (
02:04:03 Quit [zmaj] (
02:04:03 Quit wacky_ (
02:04:03 Quit Seed (
02:04:03 Quit Lynx_awy (
02:04:19I-R-Addictmm.. prolly clears default settings
02:04:19I-R-AddictiRiver just recently got the ability to delete things from itself
02:04:46I-R-Addictno ?
02:05:10I-R-Addictyea.. but nothing in windows really holds value
02:05:17I-R-Addictnor makes sense
02:05:28I-R-Addictand i thought under winxp/2k 16bit DOS apps don't run
02:05:36ashridahof course they can.
02:05:52I-R-Addictoh, right
02:05:54I-R-Addicti remember now
02:06:02I-R-Addictthey can run if they're not on a NTFS partition
02:06:04I-R-Addictonly FAT
02:06:06NJoin[zmaj] [0] (
02:06:12NJoinCoCoLUS [0] (
02:06:24I-R-Addictu try to run it off NTFS, and it complains its not 32bit
02:06:52ashridahi've never had problems running dos apps off of an ntfs partition
02:07:10ashridahutilities that try to directly access the FAT tables and friends generally will fail
02:07:22I-R-Addicta lot of DOS apps are 32bit now though
02:07:29I-R-Addictfor instance for win98 won't run in winxp
02:07:50I-R-Addicthad a lil experiement with that yesturday
02:09:23NJoinwacky_ [0] (
02:09:26NJoinSlasheri [0] (
02:09:52NJoinLynx_awy [0] (HydraIRC@
02:09:55ashridahworks fine here.
02:09:59ashridahat least, that's on win2k.
02:10:20NJoinSeed [0] (
02:10:20Mode"#rockbox +n " by
02:12:46textchimprockbox loads really damn fast
02:13:05ashridahtextchimp: yeah, it doesn't scan the entire directory structure.
02:13:08textchimpi think the iriver firmware scans the entire HD looking for m3u files or something
02:13:10ashridahthis means that changing directories will take longer however.
02:13:12ashridahso it's a tradeoff
02:13:18textchimpoh i see
02:13:31ashridahtextchimp: it actually builds a directory tree in memory.
02:13:37textchimpyeah i see what you mean
02:13:51ashridahtextchimp: one of the reasons iriver's firmware has a maximum limit on the number of files
02:13:58 Quit ]RowaN[ ()
02:14:00textchimpashridah: couldn't it do that only after you disconnect from USB? and store the tree in a single file....
02:14:14I-R-Addictwhat is the limit, btw ashridah ?
02:14:19textchimpthat's the only time the tree will change anyway, isn't it?
02:14:37ashridahI-R-Addict: 9999 or something, i forget, since i've never run into it
02:14:39textchimpashridah: well, any firmware
02:14:59ashridahtextchimp: ostensibly, yes, but rockbox can't make that assumption, particularly since it can dual-boot.
02:15:29textchimphmm yeah
02:17:10ashridahbut it wouldn't really solve the problem too well, since you'd just end up loading that file from disk. of course, since rockbox is getting support for an itunes-alike db, it'll be moot, that'll have a similar effect.
02:17:13mstwhat chip does iriver run on?
02:17:47textchimpbut loading the file would be faster than scanning the whole dir tree wouldn't it?
02:17:47ashridahmst: coldfire m68k-based microprocessor
02:17:53msti have one of "s1 mp3" players
02:17:58ashridahtextchimp: true.
02:18:02textchimpi can't believe there's a font browser...that rules
02:18:46ashridahtextchimp: rockbox currently has a nintendo gameboy emulator as well. of course, it's not running at 100% realtime yet.
02:19:12ashridahthe input buttons aren't really that well suited to it tho, since they're multiplexed, and can't be pressed at the same time
02:19:27textchimpand kind of clicky to press, too
02:19:52ashridahit works okay for tetris
02:21:35textchimpdoes that come with the default iriver firmware package on the site?
02:21:51textchimpomg there's a peak meter
02:22:20 Part MoosCamaro
02:22:33*I-R-Addict hands text chimp a tissue to clean up after himself when he's done.
02:22:50textchimpdamn this is nice
02:23:01textchimpis there good recording support?
02:23:20textchimpthe iriver so needs a realtime recording meter....and realtime input volume changing
02:27:51ashridahtextchimp: probably not at this point, since the previous platform for rockbox has been a set of players that used hardware decoders. one of which was labelled a 'recorder' so there might have been some support, but i doubt it was software encoding
02:31:37textchimpdamn, i think i hung it....i went to 'show id3 info'
02:34:20ashridahthat doesn't do anything here
02:34:36ashridahpress 'stop'?
02:34:41textchimpdidn't work
02:34:44textchimpi had to reset
02:35:11textchimpbut hey, the recording feature has a peak meter built in...that's nice....i realise recording doesn't work though
02:36:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:36:31ashridahmm, it just depends on when someone gets around to doing the work on getting the iriver hardware to record, mainly.
02:37:35 Join lostlogic [0] (
02:37:54textchimpwill that just be C work?
02:38:39ashridahprobably not, since it'll require hardware interaction.
02:39:03ashridahalso, getting encoding happening properly will probably involve assembly-level optimisations to take advantage of the emac unit
02:39:58textchimpis that like emacs? there's a TEXT EDITOR UNIT BUILT IN?
02:41:43msti'd kill some people to have emacs run on my toy
02:42:51*I-R-Addict makes a metal note to never meet mst until he has implemented emacs on his toy
02:42:55I-R-Addicterr mental
02:43:00I-R-Addict.. i can type, i swear
02:44:13textchimpasridah: what was the watermarking you mentioned earlier?
02:44:25textchimpuh, ashridah, sorry
02:46:58ashridahwatermark levels in buffers
02:47:27ashridahbasically, hysterisis point to start filling the audio output buffer
02:47:53ashridahone wants to start the process before one runs out of output, with enough to spare that spinning up the disk and starting decoding won't let it run out
02:49:04textchimpso the issue is working out when to start the buffer filling process?
02:49:33ashridahno, the issue is developing the set of apis that'll do it cleanly.
02:54:13 Quit cYmen ("zZz")
02:56:50textchimpi gather that doesn't exist for the archos rockbox because of the hardware decoding?
02:57:01ashridahpretty much
02:57:33textchimpwhat tools do i need to compile plugins for the firmware?
02:57:46textchimpms visual studio or some such
02:58:08ashridahno, we use gcc, so if you're on windows, you'll need to use cygwin
02:58:18textchimpoh cool
02:58:20textchimpi do already
02:58:33textchimpcygwin that is...don't think i've gotten gcc working
02:58:49textchimpbut i could do it in linux?
02:59:16textchimpis there any guide to getting started with plugin dev on the site?
02:59:17ashridaheither way, you'll need to compile a cvs checkout of gcc 3.4's HEAD
02:59:20ashridahand binutils cvs
02:59:26ashridahthere should be one in the wiki
02:59:32ashridahmost of the developers actually use linux
02:59:40textchimpwon't that give me the broken bootloader?
03:00:31ashridahthe bootloader's compiled separately from rockbox
03:00:34ashridahalthough the code is shared
03:01:08textchimpbut i guess the CVS head of the binutils isn't exactly tested and safe? like i could kill the player?
03:01:13ashridahbut if you don't touch the firmware you loaded using iriver's built in firmware utility, you can't actually end up with a bricked player just from rockbox itself.
03:01:29 Quit odd (Remote closed the connection)
03:01:49ashridahonly if you used it on the firmware you built into an ihp_120.hex
03:02:00textchimpashridah: even with the bootloader patched into it?
03:02:04 Join odd [0] (
03:02:14ashridahsince rockbox.iriver is loaded off the hd, just a reset and replacement of it in iriver's firmware will do the trick.
03:02:24Rickor ROLO
03:02:29textchimpok that's reassuring
03:03:00Rickand yeah, you can't kill the player with just rockbox.iriver
03:03:05Rickonly if bootloader messes up
03:05:04textchimpso is the chip in the iriver actually a general purpose CPU of some sort? if it can run a gameboy emulator and so on?
03:05:58Rickit is a coldfire
03:05:59ashridahit's a motorola coldfire cpu.
03:06:01Ricki forget the exact number
03:06:14ashridahbased on the m68000 series microprocessor range
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04:36:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:42:15rubberglovehiya. this is probably just destined for the irc logs, but about the recently modified text viewer plugin - it doesn't appear to write to the settings file on exit, at least not on my h1xx. it doesn't create 'viewer.dat', nor will it write to it if i create one manually. i really can't see anything wrong with viewer.c, so i thought i'd alert the authorities....
04:45:49rubberglovei suppose i SHOULD compile it myself with the debug on...
04:46:40rubbergloveincidentally, i wonder if anyone is working on a GNUchess port.....?
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08:25:56oxygen77hello Strath or maybee you are StrathAFK ;)
08:27:08*HCl yawns
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08:43:26oxygen77lut gromit`
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09:55:15rasherOh my, looks like ipodlinux is going to use mpd .. that's clearly insane
09:55:45rasherMusic Player Daemon
09:56:03rasherIt's a daemon that plays music, you attach to it with a client to control it
09:56:15*Bagder looks it up
09:56:43rasherIt's a cute idea for pcs if you want to control it over network or want music to play even when you're logged out etc.
09:56:45Bagderseems a bit... overkill to use that
09:56:46rasherI use it.
09:56:55rasherBut why you'd use it on a device is beyond me
09:58:33*rasher relocates
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10:00:36 Join bobTHC [0] (
10:00:45bobTHCmornin' folks !
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10:12:44Bagderhi bob
10:13:09*Bagder found 3 lcd controllers yesterday that do 176x220 18bit color
10:13:38Bagderjust googled around
10:13:57Bagderpeople said it was likely to be an epson
10:14:03Bagderand I found one epson too
10:14:12Bagderbut I don't know why it would be likely to be an epson
10:14:51BagderI guess we'll have to bugger Linus to rip his unit to pieces
10:15:38rasherHasn't anyone properly disassembled one yet?
10:15:54Bagdernope, not the backside of the LCD etc
10:15:58rasheramiconn: got a h140 yet?
10:16:34rasherah.. I guess everyone with a broken unit have just gotten it replaced by the nice people at iRiver :)
10:16:58Bagderhow annoying friendly companies are ;-)
10:16:59rasherThey do appear to have a generous replacement policy
10:17:10rasherfrom what I've read
10:17:42amiconnrasher: Got one from ebay... however it did not yet arrive
10:17:56amiconnShipment will take a while from Switzerland
10:18:08rasherYeah, I read, just wondering if it arrived yet
10:25:38amiconnBagder: I consider playback to be higher priority than the H3xx lcd
10:26:04BagderI agree
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10:29:04amiconnI wonder whether we'll ever manage to record to mp3 format on iriver. Would be a serious disadvantage for rockbox if not...
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10:31:09 Quit bobTHC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:35:01Lynx_amiconn: what's the problem with it? encoding speed?
10:36:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:36:52amiconnFirst thing we'll need is an open source realtime mp3 encoder
10:37:08rasherI guess lame is the way to go?
10:37:22Bagderit won't be able to do it realtime
10:37:54rasheror something from ffmpeg
10:38:11rasherAnyway, if it'll record to something lossless, I'll be happy
10:38:27rasherI guess some people won't, if they're short on discspace
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10:39:02Lynx_well, as a workaround one could record to lossless and the encode in non realtime...
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10:40:24rasherThat'd use up loads of diskspace though
10:40:37rasherHrm.. I wonder if the Burglar alarm went off, or there's a fire
10:40:40rasherhard to tell
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10:41:24amiconnLynx_: If the iriver firmware can do it realtime and rockbox can't, I consider this a severe disadvantage, in spite of any existing workaround
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10:44:25rasher_uniThe latter it'd seem, since it stopped, and I'm not yet on fire
10:45:50rasher_uniI agree with amiconn.. not having mp3 encoding would be a bummer
10:47:12Bagderany h3x0 owner around?
10:47:37*rasher_uni pushes some more
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10:48:35Bagderthat doesn't tell if they're around ;-)
10:48:57rasher_uniTrue, but you could at least prod them by name if they were on there
10:50:24Bagderanyway, I've started adding h3x0 details on the devicechart
10:50:54Lynx_amiconn: of course it's a disadvantage. and i guess nobody is seriously working on that shine encoder?
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10:52:36rasher_uni ouch.. I'm so not getting a h3x0 - ever
10:52:42BagerBagder i'm H3x0 owner :)
10:53:15Bagdercan you measure the physical size of the LCD?
10:53:48Bagerif you mean without dissasembling the unit - yes
10:54:08Bagderyes, just the width and height
10:54:48Bagerbut i guess that you don't want this
10:54:48DBUGEnqueued KICK Bager
10:54:48Bagervisible area ?
10:55:34Bager3.2cm height, 4cm width
10:55:51Bagerw8, i'll explain
10:55:59Bagderthere's always a but ;-)
10:56:46rasher_uni"Dimension: Approximately 62mm(W) x 103 mm(D) x 25mm(H)"
10:56:52Bagerdo you have a picture of H300's face
10:57:09BagderBager: no
10:57:34Bagderrasher_uni: yes, I'm adding that info atm
10:57:55Bagerrasher_uni is that for h340 or for h320
10:58:01rasher_uniAlright, no point in me relaying it then :)
10:58:04rasher_unibager: 320
10:58:27Bagersee it for h340, it's taller
10:58:28dwihnoanyone ever toyed with a zaurus?
10:58:33rasher_uniApproximately 62mm(W) x 103 mm(D) x 25mm(H) says h340
10:58:43rasher_unithat's the same... o.O
10:58:52bobTHCzaurus is a good toy
10:58:53Bagderthat can't be right?
10:59:17rasher_uniUnless it's like with the h120vsh140
10:59:25rasher_unih120 vs h140
10:59:36rasher_uniwhere there's a bump on the h120, but the h140 just levels it out
10:59:45Bagerrasher_uni i can give you dimensions of h340
11:00:04rasher_uniBetter give them to Bagder instead :)
11:00:07Bagerabout 2.5mm H
11:00:07Bagderplease do
11:00:16dwihnobobTHC: you touched one?
11:00:18Bagerso this is for H340
11:00:29rasher_uniThey even state that the weight is the same... weirder and weirder
11:00:30bobTHCyes a zaurus c3000
11:00:34Bagersorry, can't give for h320
11:01:07Bagderhm, it makes you wonder if they have the h320 data wrong
11:01:23rasher_uniIt sure does
11:01:37rasher_uniMaybe someone was a little c&p-happy
11:01:42Bagerrasher_uni just a sec
11:02:21rasher_uniI think a h320 owner right about now would be nice
11:02:36Bagerrasher_uni no, let's take a look at
11:02:37rasher_unithe flash! the horror!
11:02:50Bagerrasher_uni sec
11:02:59Bager H320: 103 x 62.1 x 22.5 mm
11:03:00BagerH340: 103 x 62.1 x 25 mm
11:03:02rasher_uniBager: I try not to for reasons stated above, but if it's more accurate, excellent idea :)
11:03:16bobTHCa friend who work in japan have one and show me it when he cameback last hollydays, it's a real good portable nix device
11:03:17BagderBager: is the weight given too?
11:03:17rasher_uniSounds like is not to be trusted
11:03:51rasher_unifor h320
11:03:55BagerH320: 183g (Including Battery)
11:03:56BagerH340: 203g (Including Battery)
11:04:08BagerOperational Temperature -5C ~ 40C
11:04:10rasher_unithey both have line in
11:04:35rasher_uniAnd mini-b female usb
11:04:52rasher_uniSomeone take a photo of them :)
11:05:11rasher_unior find one we can use without anyone suing us :)
11:05:16Bagerthe international's USB1.1 port is not the same kind as this of US H300
11:05:16Bageri mean
11:05:22bobTHCdwihno > what kind of info do u want about zaurus ?
11:05:36Bagerthey are not hardware compatible
11:06:32rasher_unihow many buttons does it have?
11:06:51dwihnobobTHC: basically I just think it looks cool, but it would be nice with a hands-on experience from someone else
11:07:25rasher_uniI think someone from openzaurus drops in from time to time if I'm not mistaken - he should know a bit
11:07:27Bageron US unit u can plug the same cable in USB2.0 slave port (marked as "data") and in 1.1 (marked as "MEDIA")
11:07:27Bageron the international the ports are different
11:07:27Bageri think that DATA is mini-USB-B
11:07:27Bagerand the 1.1 host is mini-USB-a
11:07:27Bagerw8 sec
11:07:33Bagerplay, stop, rec, a-b, +, -, <, >, navi, hold, reset
11:07:46Bager9 + hold + reset
11:08:12Bagderreset being the hole?
11:08:12Bagerbtw, the LCD remote has 2 additional buttons
11:08:33 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (
11:09:14Bagerhttp:// <= see this
11:09:22BagerBagder ?
11:09:45rasher_uniAh, no buttons on the side
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11:10:18BagderI saved the page how with more details
11:10:20Bagerthe dimensions i gave to u were within the silver band
11:10:45Bageri'm talking about the LCD
11:10:52rasher_uniwhat does '"Ear" position' mean?
11:11:03Bagderwhere the ear phones go in
11:11:20rasher_unisame as h120 then
11:11:24rasher_uni( )
11:11:40[IDC]DragonI may help with the LCD
11:11:52rasher_uniBager: does it charge via usb?
11:12:05[IDC]Dragonwe have a _lot_ of different types here in the company
11:12:07Bagerrasher_uni: yes, but slooowww
11:12:17Bageri charge it with +5v and gnd from my pc
11:12:23rasher_uniWell there's not a lot of power to draw
11:12:31rasher_uniBut that's a yes, then
11:12:38[IDC]DragonSeiko, Epson, etc.
11:12:40amiconnhi [IDC]Dragon
11:12:50[IDC]Dragonhi Jens
11:13:41rasher_uniBagder: USB charge: yes, Hardware controlled charge: yes (at least it seems so from the prints)
11:13:42alias[k]The H300 charger has 5V DC 2A output with a + centre
11:13:44BagderBager: so the host USB part is only 1.1 ?
11:13:46Bagerrasher_uni so, yes, it has charging from USB
11:13:53alias[k]Yeah, host is only 1.1
11:13:55[IDC]Dragonamiconn: how the physical mailbox?
11:14:16[IDC]Dragon(your expected deliveries)
11:14:40amiconnTrevor's Ondio arrived; other items did not
11:14:45rasher_uniBagder: how about a "Hold switch" row?
11:15:00[IDC]Dragonand? how is it doing?
11:15:23amiconnIt turns out there is no problem with multivolume and hotswap at all
11:15:40[IDC]Dragonyour dependency discussion?
11:15:43BagerBagder btw the screen size is 220x176 pixels
11:15:55[IDC]Dragonbut wasn't he using daily builds?
11:16:01rasher_uniBager: already noted :)
11:16:11BagerBagder: yes, host is USB 1.1
11:16:26rasher_uniI'm pretty sure they have RTCs as well?
11:16:40Bagderthey do?
11:16:44Bageri've added the USB1.1-host/slave chip in the wiki
11:16:48rasher_uniI think so
11:16:49Bagerrasher_uni yes
11:16:58Bagderrtc is nice
11:17:01Bagerat least
11:17:01Bagerthere is a clock
11:17:03alias[k]Bager: its a USB 2 slave
11:17:14Bagerbut i have no idea in which chip is situated
11:17:16Bageralias[k] no
11:17:20Bageri mean MEDIA PORT
11:17:27amiconn[IDC]Dragon: There was just a dependency problem, which caused it to not work (independent of hw version) when first built with mv and hotswap disabled, then just rebuild with 'make' after enabling it in the config header
11:17:27alias[k]Oh for the american version
11:17:28Bagerit can be host/slave
11:17:31Bagdercheck now
11:17:42amiconnBagder fixed that yesterday
11:18:08rasher_uniCan't we more or less assume Hard Drive poweroff to be yes?
11:18:25alias[k]The H300 has the same remote as the H100 series
11:18:33alias[k]LCD remote, just isn't shipped with one.
11:18:37Bagderit doesn't come with the LCD one, right?
11:18:57rasher_uniShame. The remote is my favourite part of the h1x0
11:18:58BagderI wasn't really sure what to write
11:19:03amiconn[IDC]Dragon: I plan to do tests with older versions. Perhaps some change between his last report and current cvs fixed it
11:19:23Bagderfeel free to update the page, I'll try to do some other work now
11:19:37Bageralias[k] the chip with USB 1.1 caps has 2 ports - one can act only as slave, the other as host and as slave
11:20:07BagerBagder one error
11:20:17Bagerthe default remote doesn't have LCD
11:20:23alias[k]Also, the FM frequency is firmware dependent. If you flash with Japanese F/W it changes it to the other band
11:20:23Bagerbut you can buy one
11:20:43Bagerthere is official LCD remote for H3x0 series
11:21:13rasher_unialias[k]: not really relevant for rockbox since this if just software differences
11:21:37amiconn[IDC]Dragon: The samsung tuner is really crap. It's less sensitive than the philips, and captures digital noise
11:21:59alias[k]Well, it is listed in the devicechart, so I thought it should be cleared up.
11:22:12Bagerbtw, the philips one is not so good (at least i think so ...) it's not very sensitive
11:22:42Bagerbtw, what does the "Hard drive poweroff" row mean
11:23:04CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
11:23:04*rasher_uni added hold switch row - someone fill up for archos devices
11:23:16rasher_unialias[k]: I'm guessing that's hardware limitations
11:23:41Bagerdoes "power off" mean spin down ?
11:23:59*rasher_uni doesn't really know
11:24:02alias[k]rasher_uni: what I'm saying, is that it isn't limited to the 87.5->108 band.
11:24:09Bagderit means power off instead of sleep
11:24:11amiconnThe peak meter in our radio screen causes a rattling noise
11:24:33rasher_unialias[k]: what else can it do?
11:24:34Bagderrasher_uni: no archos model have hold switches
11:24:37BagerBagder one other note: H3x0 series have 2 usb ports
11:24:44rasher_uniBagder: I'll add that then :)
11:24:51alias[k]The Japanese band is something like 78 - 88 or something.
11:25:06rasher_uniWhenever WillRobertson is done editing :)
11:25:17Bagderalias[k]: we want the hardware limits noted
11:25:18rasher_uniBagder: do you know about gmini?
11:25:34Bagderrasher_uni: not for sure, but I'd be surprised if it has one
11:25:44rasher_uniThis should mean that the h1x0s can do 78-88 as well?
11:25:55[IDC]Dragonamiconn: just got back to my desk
11:26:09BagerBagder the limits must be the same as these of archos with this philips chip
11:26:17[IDC]DragonI still wonder about the hotswap issue
11:26:42rasher_unialias[k]: still editing, or did you forget to release the editlock?
11:26:47[IDC]Dragonbecause he for sure was testing daily builds some point in time
11:27:13[IDC]Dragonbagder: dailies are "clean" rebuilds, right?
11:27:22alias[k]It should be unlocked now, sorry.
11:27:31rasher_unino worries
11:27:34Bagder[IDC]Dragon: yeps
11:28:04rasher_unialias[k]: seems it isn't, but if you're done editing, I can edit it anyway
11:28:48[IDC]Dragonbut no reason to research backwards what change fixed it, imho
11:29:11alias[k]Err, well, I'm done, so knock yourself out.
11:29:22rasher_uniDone and done.
11:29:53alias[k]I'm going to flash with the Japanese firmware to confirm that it can access the 76-90mhz band
11:30:18[IDC]Dragonamiconn: I heared a "trick" from Archos, the deliberately change the MAS clock for certain FM frequencies, to avoid interference
11:30:26Bageralias[k] w8
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11:30:53Bageralias[k] yes
11:31:00Bageri'm with korean version
11:31:11Bagerso i changed the tuner region to Japan
11:31:19Bagerand the bands start from 76.0MHz
11:31:29alias[k]So I don't have to flash?
11:31:29Bagertill 108.0
11:31:40Bageryes, you dont
11:31:47Bagerthe step is 0.1Mhz
11:32:02Bagerbut i must reset my stations ;)
11:32:31rasher_uniCharger is 2A?!
11:32:39Bageryes :)))
11:32:42alias[k]Thats what the charger I got with it says.
11:32:54Bageralias[k] same here
11:32:57Bagerrasher_uni but ...
11:33:13alias[k]Input is 350mA
11:33:17alias[k]Output is 2A
11:33:31Bageri'm sure that it doesn't use all of it
11:33:49rasher_uniI wonder if that's the same with the h1x0 charger
11:34:02Bageri don't own one
11:34:09rasher_uniI'll check when I get home
11:34:14rasher_uniunless someone else beats me to it
11:34:19alias[k]well i saw the 350 and thought I had got it the wrong way around, but the charger says so...
11:34:44rasher_uniI'm guessing whoever entered the 350 got it the wrong way round then :)
11:35:10alias[k]Or the persone who printed on the charger :)
11:35:37Bagerrasher_uni i don't think that it "sucks" 2 ampers at 220V
11:35:38amiconn[IDC]Dragon: How could the mas clock be changed? Afaik it is generated by an xtal oscillator...
11:36:08rasher_unialias[k]: it sounds correct though if my head is working correctly
11:36:38alias[k]ok, good to know.
11:36:41amiconnI tried calling several functions of rockbox, and it seems the interferences are caused by the varying cpu load
11:37:03rasher_uniAnd for h1x0 to have the least powerful charger sounds unlikely to me
11:37:22amiconnE.g. the rattling noise disappears hwen calling the radio menu, and running mandelbrot.rock causes a hum
11:39:05[IDC]Dragonamiconn: the internal divider (see pitch)
11:40:34amiconnHmm. Then it will of course change pitch as well. I doubt this does any good for recording....
11:40:55[IDC]Dragonjust very subtle, to escape the harmonic
11:41:07Bageris anyone editing DeviceChart ?
11:41:16amiconn...and the clock itself is still the same. We only make the mas think the clock is different
11:41:25rasher_uniBager: you'll see if you try to edit it
11:41:46Bageryea, i know
11:41:47[IDC]Dragonamiconn: the internal clock _is_ changed
11:42:56amiconnReally? That would mean the mas doesn't directly run from the external clock, but employs a pll circuit to change it
11:43:20[IDC]Dragonyes, how else do you explain pitch?
11:43:42amiconnI thought that variable we set for pitch change is only a reference for the firmware
11:44:11amiconn...seting some internal timer
11:44:11[IDC]Dragonthat flexibility is meant for connecting it to any existing xtal, then adjusting the divider
11:44:24Bagerok, just to be sure ... does anyone knows how can i distinguish mini USB-A and mini USB-B
11:45:09[IDC]Dragonwe're abusing this divider for pitch
11:45:27amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Anyway, the majority of interferences is definitely not caused by the mas. It's the cpu and perhaps the lcd lines
11:45:40[IDC]Dragonwe're practically overclocking it when pitch >100%
11:46:13amiconn...and in fact, these interferences are also observable with the philips tuner, just very faint
11:46:20[IDC]Dragonyes, in general.
11:46:56[IDC]Dragonbut the MAS harmonics seem to replicate into th FM band, giving you a false station
11:47:06[IDC]Dragon(never tested this myself)
11:47:30Bagerabout interferences - there is one between the philips tuner and the hard disk in H3x0
11:47:35[IDC]Dragonso, to receive in a certain small range, they "shift the MAS aside"
11:48:15amiconnTune in a weak station and wait for silence. You'll notice this rattling noise. Call the radio menu to make it go away
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11:52:04[IDC]Dragonthe FM screen has LCD activity, which is not advisable
11:52:28[IDC]Dragoniirc, the Ondio lacks the "freeze" button we have for the FMR
11:53:40*[IDC]Dragon calls for an FM WPS ;-)
11:53:59amiconnHowever, I'm not sure whether this noise is caused by the lcd update itself or by the cpu activity
11:54:14amiconnWe are using the sleep instruction while archos does not
11:54:49[IDC]DragonI'd guess on the LCD, since Archos plated the connection strip with copper for the early models
11:55:19amiconnThen why does grayscale.rock only cause minor interference?
11:55:31[IDC]Dragondoes it?
11:55:37amiconnIt lcd_updates practically always..
11:55:45[IDC]Dragonmaybe it's better distributed
11:55:55amiconnIt causes much more interference while drawing than while just displaying
11:55:58[IDC]Dragonno crisp peaks
11:56:05amiconnSame with mandelbrot.rock
11:56:24[IDC]Dragon? displaying takes a lot of CPU, too ?
11:56:38amiconnAbout 50% for fullscreen
11:57:04[IDC]Dragon(I know about the 50%)
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12:48:57MoosCamarohi all
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13:48:15amiconnI might have found the cause for the missing pixels on the iriver remote lcd...
13:48:35HClhave you got your h140 yet?
13:49:50amiconnNo, but I read the specs on the iriver hp
13:50:02amiconnIt says 128x64...
13:50:08amiconn..not 132x65
13:50:29HCl65? odd number...
13:51:06amiconnNot that odd
13:51:23amiconnIt's 64+1; 1 being the extra icon line of the lcd controller
13:51:52HClicon line?
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14:06:21*HCl starts to beat capslock with a stick.
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14:36:36Bagerei tva me razbi
14:36:45BagerServer 54, Where Are You?
14:36:47Bager The University of North Carolina has finally found a network server that, although missing for four years, hasn't missed a packet in all that time. Try as they might, university administrators couldn't find the server. Working with Novell Inc. (stock: NOVL), IT workers tracked it down by meticulously following cable until they literally ran into a wall. The server had been mistakenly sealed behind drywall by maintenance workers.
14:37:09Bager(article from Techweb on 9 April 2001)
14:37:20 Quit lostlogic ("Going to the moon")
14:37:35ashridahi'm willing to bet that was a fabrication.
14:37:38ashridahlike they actually needed help from novell
14:38:06Bagerafter 4 years ? ;)
14:39:57Bagersorry for the bulgarian before, it was not supposed for this channel ;)
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15:04:48rasherYup, h1x0 charger is 2A as well - probably the same even
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15:25:06LinusNah, finally got cvs bootloader to work
15:25:29Bagerwhat was the problem with it ?
15:25:55rasherIt didn't in fact boot :)
15:26:18Bagerno, i mean what caused that
15:26:43LinusNwe made lots of changes to the common code
15:26:54Bageryeah, i know
15:27:06Bageri follow the progress passively
15:27:07LinusNthe specific bug was that the cpu frequency wasn't set up correctly
15:27:34Bagertiming issues ?
15:27:40LinusNit now needs to be set with set_cpu_frequency() even if we don't want to activate the pll
15:28:01LinusNsince set_cpu_frequency() also sets up the waitstates for the peripherals
15:28:46rasherI was thinking about things-to-change to the bootloader (sooner or later).. 1) read buttons earlier 2) slightly longer timeout for the splash? 3) remove the boot-iriver-with-remote .. and something else which I forgot :-\
15:29:11LinusNwhy 3)?
15:29:15rasherI should know better than to think when I'm not able to write it down
15:29:16Bagerthe to-do list in IriverBoot ? :)
15:29:28rasherLinusN: I mean eventually, not right now
15:30:48LinusNlong timeout for which flash?
15:31:24rasher"HOLD switch on, power off.."
15:31:35rasherI can barely read it before it's off
15:31:43rashernevermind if I'm not paying attention
15:32:11rasherof course now I get it, but I found myself wondering why it hadn't turned on a bunch of times
15:32:38Bagerthat's what some people call "really good support"
15:32:55rasherwell it *was* a one-char fix :)
15:33:09Bageryes, it *is*
15:33:36Bagerbut do it on any commercial program/firmware/etc
15:34:14*rasher looks at a usb-soundcard
15:34:24rasherI'm wondering if this is the soundcard version of winmodems
15:34:39rasheror just very cheap
15:42:05Bagertrademark/model ?
15:43:39rasherDanish brand, "Sandberg" - "USB to Sound link".. their website is very uninformative
15:44:20Bagergoogle ?
15:44:34rasherbrought up very little
15:44:39rasherexcept places selling it
15:45:49Bagerso... go to shop, say "i want to see it", take the screwdriver ....
15:46:27rasherHah.. :)
15:47:49BagerBagder btw, do you have anything against my nick ?
15:48:45rasherLet's see if the drivers reveal anything
15:50:00bobTHCrasher > tiny usb sound card
15:50:59rasherI think price is more important than size right now :)
15:51:09rasherbut thanks for the tip
15:51:22rasherhaha, that's cute
15:52:00rasher that looks smaller anyway
15:52:09rasherand it's only 99 DKK (13eur)
15:52:27rasherfrom another shop, that is
15:53:47rasherIt appears to be a "ABC CM106/108 USB Audio Device"
15:53:57rasherjudging by some of the driver files
15:53:57t0masBager: as long as it's higher up the alphabet as Bagder's it isn't a problem :)
15:54:07dwihnorasher: looks neat :D and tiny
15:54:26Bagert0mas haha
15:56:19rasherdwihno: and it's quite cheap as well.. I think I want one, because the sound from my laptop is seriously bad - especially microphone
15:57:03bobTHCi dont think the sound with the sandberg will be greatest than the laptop one
15:57:39rasherThen you haven't heard my laptop :)
15:57:47dwihnorasher: that knob game thing looked pretty cool! :)
15:57:50rasherwell, it's more or less only the microphone that's a problem
15:57:59rasherdwihno: it does, but it's four times the price
15:58:25dwihnorasher: a reasonable price for better sound?
15:59:52rasherNot really.. I mean it's k00l, but I won't use it for much except voip - can't do that right now. The other end can't hear me.
16:00:14rasherWhich sortof ruins it
16:00:45rasherBut yes, that knob is teh sexay
16:01:21bobTHCthe hercule one ise about 60, it's a little bit expensive but u have 5.1 sound and good input quality
16:01:44bobTHCbut 60 is not 20
16:01:58dwihnoget the cheaper then :)
16:02:09rasherThe thing is.. 5.1 I have no use for, and I'm not going for "good quality", just "acceptable quality"
16:02:21rasherI'm not going to be doing studio-recordings with this thing :)
16:03:20rasherSo yes, I'm pretty much looking for the cheapest possible. Linux support would be nice, but I guess I'm too much of a cheap-skate to spend more for that reason
16:04:33rasheroh JESUS... it's another c-media device...
16:05:02rasherwhich is exactly what I'm running away from
16:05:37rasheradmittedly another chipset
16:09:43bobTHCthe hercule use the via vt1616 chip :
16:09:58bobTHCbut it's too expensive i know ;)
16:11:12rasherWell they appear to publish data sheets, so I guess my chances for linux support are better-than-average
16:11:24bobTHCit's linux supported
16:13:00bobTHCfor southbridge yes but on usb :/
16:13:19rasherdamn alsa and their black hearts.. their driver database appears horribly out of date
16:14:15bobTHCVIA VT1616 AC?97 audio: use ALSA module snd-via82xx
16:16:00rasherany such luck for cmedia 106 or 108 (probably 106)
16:16:54rasheroh nice, looks like cmedia does some driver development themself
16:18:06 Quit rasher ("CGI:IRC 0.5.4 (2004/01/29)")
16:23:38 Part LinusN
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16:36:20***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:40:59 Quit ashridah ("sleep")
16:46:17 Part amiconn
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16:54:08 Quit oxygen77 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
17:14:40 Join XavierGr [0] (
17:15:18XavierGrHello everybody!
17:16:01XavierGrIs there anyway to make an Active Primary partion with 16k Cluster size (40 GB Iriver Disk)?
17:18:45 Quit t0mas ("brb")
17:23:53 Quit XavierGr ("CGI:IRC 0.5.4 (2004/01/29)")
17:29:36 Quit bobTHC ("Smoke Weed Every Day !")
17:35:49 Join rubberglove [0] (
17:37:53 Join Seed [0] (
17:38:22rubberglovehi all. i'm starting to get into rockbox programming here, and have been looking at the plugin api. am i correct in that there is no function to look at the record buffer?
17:38:43rubberglovesay, if i wanted to do something with sound at the line/mic inputs?
17:40:00amiconnThere is no such thing as a recording buffer
17:40:36amiconnThere is only one audio buffer, which will be used both for recording and playback
17:41:26amiconnAnyway, there is not even working playback on iriver, and recording is certainly not implemented before playback
17:41:48rubbergloveyeah.. i was just trying to think about things here...
17:42:27rubbergloveso, with one buffer, it could be a bit complicated to record and playback simultaneously?
17:43:00amiconnyup least if this should be done from/to files
17:43:52amiconnLoop-through (for using the iriver as an effects machine) should be no problem
17:44:15 Quit Seedy (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
17:44:16rubbergloveah. cool. it seems like it would make a nice guitar effects pedal.
17:44:35rubberglovejust have to get the midi sync working....*grin*
17:51:47rubberglovei may use a mono input, and use the other to read a DINSync clock signal (24 pulses per quarternote). then i could sync up to my
17:52:47rubbergloveso if i wanted to start working on something like this, i'd just be reading from and writing to a buffer provided by the audio api?
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18:36:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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20:26:56 Join rasher [0] (
20:29:34rasherLinusN: I see you committed a bootloader fix.. do you want it tested, or do you still have more testing to do yourself?
20:30:19amiconnHe's not here...
20:30:45 Join Sucka [0] (
20:31:56rasherah, indeed not.. saw the commit
20:32:07rasherand thought I'd ask.. perhaps he'll read the log
20:32:23amiconnHe joined for about 5 seconds some minutes ago
20:33:36rasherso he did
20:35:56rasherweird, build estimate is 5 minutes wrong
20:36:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:42:22rasheroooh, he uploaded a new file to IriverBoot
20:43:49rasherGuess I'll try and build it then
20:44:02rasherand find the new md5sums
20:52:05 Join tvelocity [0] (
21:02:58 Join tucoz [0] (
21:03:55tucozhello, I wonder which platforms that use HAVE_LCD_BITMAP
21:04:23rasherrecorder, ondio and iriver afaik
21:04:58rasher all but the player, really
21:05:17tucozok, was just trying to make snow visible on iriver
21:05:46rasheryou could check for #LCD_WIDTH = 160
21:05:47tucozthen, one would need another ifdef for iriver then
21:05:51tucozoh, ok
21:05:53rasheror #ifdef IRIVER_H100
21:06:06rashernot sure which is better
21:06:09amiconn#if LCD_WIDTH == 160
21:06:18rasheruh yes, that :)
21:06:32amiconnPerhaps on iriver the snow would work better on the remote lcd...
21:06:46rasherboth, both!
21:06:53tucoznothing fancy though. The flakes, or shall we call them blocks are visible by using fillrect
21:07:10amiconntucoz: How do you intend to achieve that? Snowflakes >1 pixel?
21:07:39rasheruh.. can't flash the new firmware >< .. Linus - help!
21:08:10rasherIt just plain won't start flashing
21:08:47tucozrasher, the new bootloader changes or what?
21:09:05rasherit'd help if I had a ihp_120.hex
21:09:11tucozpulse lowered a bit?
21:09:12rasherwonder where I copied that to then...
21:10:09rasherI forgive iRiver this time
21:10:55rasheramiconn: sometimes I wish they had used a lcd like that on the remote for the main unit :-\
21:11:00rasheralthough grayscale will be fun
21:11:25rasherthere we go... flashing
21:11:26amiconnWe do greyscale on archos... with a b&w lcd hooked up on spi, like the iriver remote lcd
21:11:30*rasher catches the digital flow
21:11:53amiconnTere could actually be 2 greyscale libs for iriver....
21:12:04rasherIt booted :) for the main lcd and one for the remote
21:12:38rasherand tapping the remote still boots the original firmware :)
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21:12:53tucozWould it be overkill to draw the snow as something that resembles snowflakes, with a couple of lines?
21:13:11rasher(a quick press would (wrongly) boot rockbox)
21:13:19rasher.. previously, that is
21:15:53rashertucoz: if you can make it within a few pixels, go right ahead
21:16:10rasherBut I'll warn you that making anything that resembles anything with a few pixels is a chore
21:16:54amiconntucoz: You could also use a tiny bitmap
21:16:54tucozchore, pain in the ass?
21:17:03rasherMore or less :)
21:17:09amiconnThis would probable be faster than using drawline
21:17:32tucozamiconn, i'll check it out.
21:17:33rasherwould using a bitmap for a single pixel be very slow for the other targets?
21:17:41rasherthat'd make it very easy :)
21:18:03amiconnIt would certainly be slower than using drawpixel
21:18:13rasherBut noteably slower?
21:18:14amiconnI don't know how much, perhaps it is bearable
21:18:40amiconnBtw: The snow visibility also isn't that good on recorder/ ondio
21:18:41rasherCode would be so much nicer code
21:18:58rasherbetter than iRiver I'll wager
21:20:08tucozhmm, are there some plugin that uses bitmaps, snake2 perhaps?
21:21:07amiconnThere is a number of them
21:21:22rashersnake2 doesn't appear to be one of them
21:21:34tucozok :|
21:21:35rasherlogo.c does :)
21:21:37amiconnBounce, calendar, chessclock, chip8, clock....
21:21:52rasheralthough logo.c is sortof a mess right now
21:21:53amiconn..a total of 37
21:22:25rasherbecause I just added the small logo another time for the iriver remote :-\
21:22:28tucozthanks, i go look for them
21:22:51amiconn...only 11
21:23:59tucozguess I come back later on.
21:24:18rasheramiconn: I only find 9 :-\
21:25:21amiconnbounce, chessclock, clock, flipit, logo, minesweeper, sliding_puzzle, solitaire, splitedit, star, vu_meter
21:29:10rasherweird, I don't see flipit and sliding_puzzle.. wonder why
21:29:35rasherah, I was grepping for lcd_bitmap( - those two use lcd_bitmap (
21:31:44amiconnThat is a weird place to put a space...
21:32:07*rasher updates md5sums on IriverBoot
21:45:53 Join Ka [0] (
21:50:41*rasher manipulates fwpatcher
21:52:16rasherit's... not patching
21:53:42amiconnHow does gcc handle functions returning a struct? Is the struct placed in a register provided it is small enough (4 bytes)?
21:54:01*rasher turns invisible
21:54:15rasherI mean.. I have absolutely no idea
21:55:24amiconnNevermind, found it
21:55:44amiconn"The method used by GCC is as follows: a structure or union which is 1, 2, 4 or 8 bytes long is returned like a scalar."
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21:56:31amiconnThat's nice :)
21:56:49*amiconn changes the GraphicsAPI topic a bit
21:56:51*rasher prods fwpatcher some more
22:00:57rasherwhat the...
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22:10:34rasherthink I'm going to blame this on wine
22:17:24rasherTotally wine's fault
22:18:12rasherit was failing to move the patched file back in place
22:18:30*rasher wonders if he should upload an updated fwpatcher
22:21:22rasheramiconn: all these "returns the old mode" .. what's that good for, really?
22:21:43amiconnAs mentioned in the footnote... for easier restore
22:22:01rasherah, that'll teach me to just look at the top bit of the diff
22:22:06rasherthat's an excellent idea :)
22:23:17amiconnE.g. a function that needs to invert a rectangle can just set darw mode to invert, draw a filled rectangle, then reset whatever drawmode was in effect before
22:23:46amiconnI also plan to implement algorithmic emboldening when done with the graphics api
22:27:05tucozhow do i do a if-else in a #ifdef #else block?
22:27:22*rasher sighs and looks around for someone to make him a bugreport/feature-request admin
22:27:31tucoznot that used to preprocessors
22:27:36rasher#if defined() #else #endif
22:27:37rasherI think
22:27:53rasherunless there's an #endifdef :)
22:28:00rasherI'm sure amiconn knows.
22:28:44amiconntucoz: You can just nest these preprocessor conditionals
22:29:02rasheramiconn: this is for you then:
22:29:05tucozamiconn: with curly braces?
22:29:47amiconnAn #if / #ifdef is in effect until a corresponding #else, #elif or #endif
22:29:49rashertucoz: more or less all other plugins use a bunch of defines, have a look at those
22:30:08rasheror listen to the clever amiconn :)
22:30:35tucozamiconn, ok. i'll try some more then
22:30:55amiconnrasher: Algorithmic emboldening and underline is simple
22:31:04rasheramiconn: does the graphics api do string printing?
22:31:07amiconnItalicising is a bit more work
22:31:33amiconnlcd_putsxyofs(), lcd_putsxy()
22:31:56rasherHow about a mode for a bidi mode?
22:32:20rashera function for setting direction
22:33:09rasherwhich would then be set in some menu, I guess
22:33:19amiconnThis would be rather tricky imho. Maybe this will be added one day along with unicode support
22:33:46rasherwell hebrew people would benefit already
22:34:03amiconnUnicode has special ltr and rtl marks iirc
22:34:41rasherof course, they'd also like the text to be right-aligned.. can't have it all
22:35:14amiconnRight alignment would be simple when printing of all text is done rtl, however, it isn't that simple
22:35:30amiconnWe still need to be able to print ltr text as well
22:35:52amiconnThere are some hard-coded english strings, and the plugins are also not (yet) localised
22:36:26***No seen item changed, no save performed.
22:36:38amiconnHandling a direction switch within a line of text can get rather sophisticated
22:37:11amiconnNumbers are always ltr iirc, even in conjunction with arabic or hebrew text
22:40:49rasheroh.. annoying
22:42:32amiconnThe irc stats need updating
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22:45:25rasherI think these rtl people just need a stern talking to
22:49:27pabsright to life?
22:49:31pabsreal-time linux?
22:49:32amiconnHah, funny! My Ondio tells me batteries are at 0%, but it's still running...
22:50:40rasherit died?
22:51:21amiconnyup (expectedly)
22:51:44rasherstats uploading
22:55:46 Join preglow [0] (
22:56:11rasherevening preglow
22:56:24rasherHad a lot of fun with fwpatcher
22:57:17rashersince it doesn't check if the file-move goes well, it will claim to have patched the file even if it hasn't touched it because it's write-protected
22:57:30preglowsure, didn't really test that part well
22:57:55preglowfeel free to patch, hack, and mince it to pieces ;)
22:57:55 Join Aditya [0] (
22:58:51preglowwoot, new bootloader!
22:59:10preglow'tis time for flashing anew!
22:59:22rasherI know! And it checks the buttons right after turning on
22:59:31rasherplus it'll be able to go into usb-mode
22:59:35rashereven if nothing will boot
22:59:38rasherwhich is seriously cool
23:00:05rashernot that you could ever hope to flash again if that happened
23:00:09rasherbut at least you could update rockbox
23:00:17preglowwhy no mirrored ram fix?
23:00:20preglowis that a hard one?
23:00:36preglowthink i'll wait, then
23:00:49rasherHm. I was wrong
23:01:08rasherIf you had a corrupted harddisk, you'd be able to reformat
23:01:11rasher=> win
23:01:33rashereven if neither rockbox nor iriver would boot
23:02:01rasherthat's, as they say, hot
23:02:12preglowyes, that's very cool, actually
23:02:16preglowanother rockbox first, i'd wager
23:02:50rasherI'm currently contemplating uploading an fwpatcher with the new bootloader
23:03:30rasherwell if iriver would just have moved the usb-detection earlier in the bootprocess, they'd have had that as well
23:04:16rasherbut they insist on scanning the harddisk, even when booting with usb inserted
23:04:44rasherand then of course scanning it again after removing the cable
23:04:44Bagderthe archos does it right in that aspect
23:04:47amiconnpreglow: USB even with completely garbled hd is in fact an important thing
23:04:59amiconnArchos got this wrong in their earlier Ondio firmware
23:05:00preglowyes, of course
23:05:05rasheramiconn: iRiver fails in that aspect
23:05:20preglowcorrupt disk = dead unit
23:05:24rasherI'm surprised there's been no uproar over this until now
23:05:26 Join sockerteze [0] (
23:05:28rashermaybe there has
23:05:29amiconnIf accidentally you formatted the internal flash FAT32, it would not boot anymore
23:05:43Bagderthat's tough
23:05:54amiconnThey fixed it in some later release
23:06:02preglowbut yea
23:06:08preglowthere's only the mirrored ram bug left, yeah?
23:06:14rashershould I upload an updated version of fwpatcher?
23:06:14preglowthe rest of the bugs in the wiki can be deleted?
23:06:15amiconnThey say if that happens, the unit is bricked an must be exchanged for another unit
23:06:21rasherpreglow: yes
23:06:33preglowrasher: i'd say wait a bit
23:06:41amiconnOf course, someone knowledgeable can still uart-boot and reflash :)
23:06:50sockertezehow do i switch channels again?
23:07:06rasherpreglow: I was leaning that way myself
23:07:12preglowrasher: i'd say give it a couple of days, then no known fatal errors and you can put it up
23:07:25preglowsockerteze: what?
23:07:31sockertezehow do i switch channels
23:07:36sockertezeits not /join
23:07:39sockertezeits the other one
23:07:46sockertezeyeah yeah laugh it up
23:07:46preglowread the irc client docs
23:07:59sockertezethis way is quicker
23:08:00preglowi don't even know what you use
23:08:08preglowthen i don't know
23:08:50preglowi'm all for asking, but this isn't even remotely on-topic
23:09:35I-R-Addictsockerteze, /join isn't it ?
23:09:39rashersockerteze: /3 /4 ?
23:09:45I-R-Addictdoes your irc client support /quote or /raw ?
23:10:09sockertezeno join is to switch servers
23:10:19I-R-Addictwhat ?
23:10:21sockertezeits the other one
23:10:23I-R-Addictwouldn't that be /server
23:11:39 Quit sockerteze ("Chatzilla 0.9.67 [Firefox 1.0.1/20050225]")
23:12:01 Join sockerteze [0] (
23:12:13rasheroh dear.. I just went "ESC :wq" in a browser text area
23:17:25tucozis it possible to check if the different builds are ok, w/o the binutils for that platform?
23:17:38rashertest the sims
23:17:46rasherthat's the best you can do without them
23:18:36rasherand uuusually they'll exhibit the same problems
23:19:21preglowas long as stuff isn't hardware depenedent
23:20:47sockertezei want to go to
23:20:58Bagderplease do
23:20:59sockertezeand then from there, i want to go to the #digitaldistractions channel
23:21:10sockertezebut how do i get to
23:21:16Bagder /server [blabla]
23:21:19rasher /connect ?
23:21:21rasheror that
23:22:02sockertezethank you
23:22:24rasherHaha, the joys of the players and oldrecorder not being mass storage compliant
23:22:34rasherthe amount of mailing list posts just since I joined is amazing
23:22:44 Quit tvelocity ("Leaving")
23:23:29rasherbagder: around?
23:24:04rasherup for splitting the fwpatcher makefile into two, or even telling me how to
23:24:19preglowfor unicode?
23:24:20rasherthere needs to be a 'unicode' and a 'no-unicode' target
23:25:02rasheronly thing different is the CFLAGS really
23:26:15Bagderok, so it'll make two different resource.o?
23:26:29Bagderand two exes
23:26:40rasherthat's the plan
23:26:51rasherso unicode would create, say, fwpatcher.exe
23:26:54preglowjust the exe
23:26:57preglowthe resources are the same
23:26:58rasheroh, yes
23:27:09rasherand no-unicode would create fwpatcher-nounicode.exe
23:27:11preglowthere is A LOT of macro magic going on
23:27:12rasheror something
23:27:31preglowTEXT, _tfopen, etc, are all macros
23:27:35*rasher commits checksums.h before doing anything else
23:27:43preglowand depend on UNICODE and _UNICODE symbols
23:27:43tucozrasher, what simulators should I check?
23:28:00rashertucoz: player, recorder and ondio I guess
23:28:45amiconntucoz: depends on what you're doing
23:29:11amiconnIf you change e.g. bitmap graphics, archos recorder/fm/v2 + ondio are the same
23:29:34amiconnIf you change the button handling, this is of course not true
23:29:55Bagderrasher: and the no-unicode one basically is without the unicode defines?
23:30:13rasherBagder: it's exactly that
23:30:22tucozsnow, I changed the iriver to actually show snowflakes. The recordes now show a small bitmap as flakes
23:30:25rasheraccording to preglow anyway
23:30:26Bagderok, gimme a sec...
23:30:47rasherand of course, all should do unicode no-unicode
23:30:48tucozall simulators build fine
23:30:59rashertucoz: checked how it looks?
23:31:15tucozlooks better than it used to on target
23:31:23rasherand on recordersim?
23:31:45tucozlooks ok, just a 3x3 pixel bitmap on that one
23:32:17rasherbring on a patch I say
23:32:35tucozhrm, ok. I have no idea how to make one
23:32:58rasherdiff -u oldfile newfile if memory serves
23:33:17rasheroldfile being a copy of the original
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23:41:29tucozif you would like to try it
23:42:19rashernice, "bootloader usb mode"
23:42:37rashertucoz: that looks lovely
23:42:44Bagderrasher: ready to test my makefile fix?
23:42:55rasherBagder: hit me
23:42:56tucozit's working for you as well? great
23:43:06Bagdercvs update and you're game
23:43:09rasherI'd be surprised if it wasn't
23:44:27rasherBagder: that looks right
23:44:43rashertwo .exes, fwpatchernu being smaller than the other
23:48:57rasherI have no way to test this though
23:49:18rasherGuess we'll just stick it up there with a "if fwpatcher.exe doesn't work, try the other"
23:49:34Bagderwhen exactly is the non-unicode one needed?
23:49:53rasherfor windows 95 and 98 I think
23:50:06rasherI think on win98 you may even install the unicode bits
23:51:21amiconntucoz: The bitmap snow looks cool on Ondio :)
23:51:33amiconnI was afraid it would be too slow, but it isn't
23:51:41rasherI think the bitmap looks a bit meaty on iriver
23:52:46tucozamiconn, cool
23:53:23tucozrasher, it's a bit big. As you said, it's hard to make something small that looks nice
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23:53:54Bagdersomeone needs to make a good photo/scan of a h320 and a h340
23:54:24amiconnIt seems the recorder/ondio lcd has a great variation in slowness. My Ondio SP display is a particular slow one, and the simply snow is barely visible
23:54:37amiconnThe bitmapped snow is perfectly visible
23:58:18 Join muesli- [0] (

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