#rockbox 2005-05-22

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#rockbox log for 2005-05-22

00:01:23		Join Tangleding [0] (~Tangledin@ARennes-252-1-51-155.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr)
00:01:30	Tangleding	:)
00:01:37	Tangleding	as chamois
00:01:37	preglow	hi
00:01:55	Tangleding	i ve nohi preglow
00:01:59	Tangleding	hi preglow
00:02:02	Tangleding	:)
00:02:09	Tangleding	strange thing
00:02:27	Tangleding	as chamois i've no remote support for snow/logo plugin
00:02:46	Tangleding	thought i use latest bootloader (v1) and latest build
00:02:56	Tangleding	isn't this strange?
00:03:31	preglow	dunno
00:03:48	preglow	then the latest version isn't in the latest build, obviously
00:03:52	preglow	don't ask me why, i never use them
00:03:53	Bagder	I think someone should try to set the remote size to 128x64 and rebuild
00:05:16	Tangleding	ah oaky
00:05:30	Tangleding	jsu to say
00:05:42	Tangleding	i've tested the new bootloader with 1.65kor
00:05:46	Tangleding	it work nice
00:05:56	Tangleding	(edited in the wiki so)
00:05:57	Tangleding	:)
00:06:18	Tangleding	(i was nt talking about the plugin issues of course)
00:13:45		Join t0mas [0] (~Tomas@ip503c08d1.speed.planet.nl)
00:15:32	amiconn	Bagder: I think setting the remote lcd to 128x64 isn't sufficient by itself. Some offsets in the lcd controller init may need adjustment
00:15:55	Bagder	probably true, yes
00:17:15	preglow	Tangleding: did you see my answer to you in the wiki?
00:17:32	Tangleding	yes indeed
00:17:38	Tangleding	:)
00:17:41	*	amiconn just digged out the scope...
00:17:56	Tangleding	no matter
00:19:16	preglow	Tangleding: yes, but you see my point? we are going to release new bootloaders as seldom as possible, and the easier fwpatcher is to use, the better.
00:19:48	preglow	this is my opinion of course, i don't know what others think of it
00:19:53	Bagder	I agree
00:20:06	Tangleding	oki that's an idea i understand
00:20:26	Tangleding	:)
00:20:50	Bagder	and we'd need to update it anyway for the md5 sums
00:20:58	Bagder	or we'd have to have them _too_ in a separate file
00:21:13	preglow	Bagder: good point
00:21:42	Bagder	I suggest you remove those questions/answers from the page
00:22:02	Bagder	they make it look less easy
00:22:17	preglow	hehe
00:22:29	preglow	ten mins, and i will
00:23:09	Tangleding	ok
00:23:21	Tangleding	for update
00:23:26	Tangleding	:)
00:24:31	Tangleding	phone scuse
00:25:57	preglow	it's locked, so i assume you're handling it
00:27:30	preglow	rasher is reading the logs, the bastard!
00:30:41		Quit lodesi ("Leaving")
00:33:45	amiconn	meh
00:35:30		Quit Tangleding ("Chatzilla 0.9.68a [Firefox 1.0.4/20050511]")
00:36:56	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:38:25	amiconn	Disabling the internal clock when accessing the MMC from rockbox saves a tiny bit of power, but doesn't work with all cards on the old hardware
00:38:34	amiconn	The archos firmware doesn't do this
00:39:14	preglow	why would you do that?
00:39:35	amiconn	The mystery is that I can't see why this is; flipping this gate doesn't influence the clock circuitry for the MMC at all
00:39:58	preglow	ahh, i misunderstood
00:41:34	amiconn	The circuit is pretty much what I expected, and so is the logic table
00:42:14	amiconn	The only reason I can think of is that flipping the clock gate causes some kind of glitch somewhere
00:44:13		Quit t0mas ("ok, reboot to test :)")
00:46:08	amiconn	[IDC]Dragon: (for the log) It seems there is a mistake in your lgic table for the Ondio 74AC08 clock circuit. I'd expect "0" for "flash clock" in the last column (USB, external card)
00:47:45		Join t0mas [0] (~Tomas@ip503c08d1.speed.planet.nl)
00:51:23		Quit t0mas (Client Quit)
00:51:25	amiconn	Perhaps I should just open up my Ondio SP and check myself...
00:53:19		Join t0mas [0] (~Tomas@ip503c08d1.speed.planet.nl)
00:54:48	preglow	of course you should
00:55:41	preglow	but i think i'll call it a day
00:55:42	preglow	later
00:56:26		Quit preglow ("av")
01:00
01:03:09		Quit Chamois (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Try something fresh")
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01:11:41		Quit cYmen ("zZz")
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02:15:52		Join textchimp [0] (~chimp@ip67.net66.ipnetworks.net.au)
02:15:55	textchimp	hi
02:16:27	textchimp	i'm trying to compile the rockboxui simulator for the iriver, and i'm getting this error right at the end:
02:21:51	textchimp	LD rockboxui
02:22:49	textchimp	'/usr/bin/ld: /home/texty/build/rockbox/rockbox-devel/build/apps/lang.o: Relocations in generic ELF (EM: 4)'
02:22:56	textchimp	'/home/texty/build/rockbox/rockbox-devel/build/apps/lang.o: could not read symbols: File in wrong format'
02:24:02	textchimp	i'm guessing the compiler is trying to compile the simulator for my own machine, but it's trying to use object files which are compiled for the coldfire?
02:25:17	amiconn	You should create a separate build directory for each build
02:25:46	amiconn	...i.e. one for target, one for sim
02:25:46	textchimp	oh yes okay
02:25:53	textchimp	i neglected to do that
02:26:05	textchimp	should i 'make clean' first or something?
02:26:41	amiconn	I'd delete the whole build dir contents, then make sub-dirs as necessary and configure each one
02:27:26	textchimp	the build dir is a sub-dir for the main target
02:29:25	amiconn	I mean, I'd recommend to use something like ......./build/iriver etc
02:30:05	textchimp	oh okay
02:30:22	textchimp	is that just a matter of preference or does it have some other effect?
02:30:30	*	amiconn usually builds for 6 targets and 11 simulators
02:31:10	amiconn	It's a matter of preference how you organise the build dirs, but you should never mix 2 builds in one dir
02:33:29	textchimp	yeah, that's clear now
02:33:34	textchimp	the build worked now....thanks
02:33:58	textchimp	does the simulator have keys for all the iriver buttons? it doesn't look like it from the docs
02:34:11	amiconn	It has
02:34:23	textchimp	like the A->B button for example
02:34:36	amiconn	They're just not documented well, but the simulators display them
02:35:01	amiconn	X11 sims print the layout to the console, and the win32 sim has them marked in the image
02:35:28	textchimp	oh sorry, it did print them to the console
02:35:59	textchimp	what do i need to do to build a test directory tree for it?
02:36:51	amiconn	Just put some files in the archos/ sub-dir
02:36:59	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:37:20	textchimp	okay
02:37:29	textchimp	it also didn't find a .rockbox directory
02:37:38	textchimp	do i copy the one made by my target build?
02:37:40	amiconn	You can add the full rockbox installation (fonts, plugins etc) by doing a 'make install'
02:37:51	textchimp	oh okay
02:44:04	textchimp	hey, the simulator comes closer to playing files than the firmware does
02:48:56	textchimp	so, uh, what now? ;-)
02:49:10	textchimp	what can i do to best help get the iriver port up to speed?
03:00
03:01:52		Quit ]RowaN[ ()
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03:17:53		Join webguest54 [0] (~c31ce021@labb.contactor.se)
03:19:12	webguest54	hi, I got different md5sum when patching the us-firmware with cygwin and the fwpatcher. Has anyone an idea ahy ?
03:20:50	ashridah	fwpatcher has an older bootloader.bin
03:21:26	webguest54	are you sure. fwpatcher should have v1 too
03:23:09	ashridah	ah, i see, someone's released a newer version
03:23:43	webguest54	yes, therefore I don't understand the difference
03:25:22	webguest54	I'll try the eu version now
03:25:34	ashridah	i'm getting the same MD5sum for a version of 1.65US with the fwpatcher and bootloader.bin that's on the site
03:25:51	ashridah	6973b9bbf75d01116894d938b938337c .wine/drive_c/ihp_us.hex <−− which i'm also using)
03:28:08	webguest54	opps, I think I have old "tools"
03:28:25	ashridah	yeah, you might want to rerun make in the 'tools' directory
03:31:53		Quit amiconn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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03:35:02		Join asianl0ve [0] (~asianl0ve@pool-71-241-132-243.burl.east.verizon.net)
03:35:40	asianl0ve	sup all
03:35:54	asianl0ve	this is gonna be noobish as hell
03:36:08	asianl0ve	but what is rockbox?
03:36:39	textchimp	it's a box full of ROCK
03:36:44	asianl0ve	NICE
03:36:53	asianl0ve	i luv to rock
03:37:01	asianl0ve	nvm that question
03:37:19	asianl0ve	am i going to be able to listen to music still?
03:37:19	textchimp	www.rockbox.org
03:37:22	asianl0ve	i know
03:37:39	asianl0ve	ive been on it for about an hour know
03:37:53	asianl0ve	theres all this techy stuff on it
03:38:17	asianl0ve	and im practically computer programming retarded
03:38:25	textchimp	it's an open source alternative firmware for a handful of mp3 players
03:38:53	asianl0ve	yeah i got that far too
03:39:09	asianl0ve	ahh w/e ill just try and load it and see what happends
03:39:32	asianl0ve	does it ever delete all your mousic?
03:40:26	textchimp	possibly
03:40:39	textchimp	but only in the advanced version
03:41:31	asianl0ve	so when I get the daily build for today
03:41:43	asianl0ve	would that put me at risk?
03:41:46	textchimp	yes
03:41:50	ashridah	asianl0ve: the archos platforms can play music with rockbox, but the iriver port can't yet play music
03:41:57	ashridah	it's still being developed
03:42:24	asianl0ve	I got an H120
03:43:41	ashridah	that said, the bootloader can boot both iriver's firmware and rockbox (although rockbox is default, you need to hold 'record' to get it to boot iriver's firmware) so if you're interested in development, you don't have to sacrifice it as a player atm
03:43:42	asianl0ve	I read on the site that I can still play music using a boot loader?
03:45:04	asianl0ve	as I am a complete noob at this...should I go through and try to load rockbox on my H120?
03:45:43	ashridah	asianl0ve: if you're not a developer, i'd hold off until it plays music properly.
03:48:03	asianl0ve	If I can boot both the original firmware and rockbox this shouldn't be a problem though. My question is should I take up my time trying to load this software on it to see its potentials or is it not worth my time.
03:48:54	ashridah	it's got definent potential.
03:49:16	ashridah	but as i say, until it can play music, at best you can play an underperforming gameboy emulator :)
03:50:10	asianl0ve	that be soooo chill though
03:50:32	asianl0ve	I'd rally in pokemon during school ;)
03:50:50	ashridah	well, input doesn't work that well.
03:51:08	ashridah	unfortunately, the buttons are multiplexed, so you can't press more than a direction and play at the same time.
03:51:09	textchimp	it's a lot faster to boot, if that impresses you
03:51:33	asianl0ve	I am just really interested in this software
03:51:48	textchimp	ashridah: i was going to ask you about that - does that mean we can't use simultaneous button presses as extra 'keys' in the UI?
03:52:38	ashridah	no, but ideally, you wouldn't want to anyway. added complexity is better done via the nav-button's menu or the a-b button's menu
03:53:06	textchimp	ashridah: as an emacs user, i disagree ;-)
03:53:22	textchimp	give me elaborate key combo chords or give me death!
03:53:30	ashridah	but yes. the play button is the only one you can detect in conjunction with any other button
03:54:07	textchimp	but you could approximate it by testing the time between different button presses, couldn't you?
03:54:48	textchimp	i guess i'm annoyed by how few buttons there are on the unit...though i appreciate they wanted to keep it simple for general purpose use
03:57:16	asianl0ve	what is the best firmware to have on a h120 for iriver?
03:58:42	textchimp	currently, the latest firmware from iriver
03:58:57	textchimp	since it plays and records sound, which can be useful on an mp3 player
03:59:25	textchimp	unless you want to display a rotating wireframe cube, in which case it's rockbox 100%
03:59:42	ashridah	textchimp: don't knock the snow plugin!
03:59:53	textchimp	haha
03:59:56	textchimp	oh yes, that too
04:00
04:00:17	textchimp	though the iriver lcd doesn't really seem well suited to...well...pixel movement
04:01:15	ashridah	yeah, the response time is a bit slow.
04:05:01	textchimp	i can't even read the scrolling filenames
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04:32:28	asianl0ve	alright...how do I get rockbox to work on my h120
04:32:48	asianl0ve	I dl'ed the daily build
04:33:01	asianl0ve	extracted it to my h120 hd
04:33:05	asianl0ve	then what?
04:33:18	asianl0ve	do I keep the original firmware on it?
04:37:00	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:38:20	textchimp	you need to download the patcher which puts the bootloader onto the firmware
04:38:22	textchimp	hang on
04:39:00	textchimp	http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IriverBoot
04:39:04	textchimp	follow those instructions
04:39:08	asianl0ve	I just want to use rockbox w/out the ability to play music though
04:39:32	asianl0ve	do I still have to use the bootloader then?
04:39:43	textchimp	you need to download the bootloader patch, run it on the firmware from iriver, then put that patched firmware onto the player and do a standard firmware upgrade
04:40:00	textchimp	then download the latest rockbox and unpack it onto your player's root dir
04:40:17	asianl0ve	ahh ok thanks
04:40:19	textchimp	yep, this is all just to test the rockbox without sound
04:40:42	textchimp	you can still load the original iriver firmware by holding down record and play when you turn it on
04:52:34	asianl0ve	ok I've installed it on my iriver
05:00
05:04:06	asianl0ve	so if I want to use the original firmware, do I still have to load it on my iriver?
05:04:16		Quit textchimp (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
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05:20:32	textchimp	asianl0ve: did you get it to work:
05:21:10	ashridah	asianl0ve: hold 'record' when you press 'play/on' to turn on the device and have it jump to the iriver firmware instead of rockbox
05:21:22	ashridah	(if rockbox is missing from the hard drive, iirc, it'll default to iriver's firmware then too)
05:22:01	asianl0ve	yeah i got it
05:22:02	asianl0ve	thanks
05:22:22	asianl0ve	is it possible to display pictures?
05:24:43	textchimp	asianl0ve: i think there's a jpeg viewer....press in the joystick button over a jpg file, and choose 'open with'
05:24:46	textchimp	not sure if it works
05:25:17	textchimp	ashridah: once recording is working, will it use the existing interface code?
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05:42:38	ashridah	textchimp: i have no idea
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11:10:34	t0mas	morning :)
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11:20:08	amiconn	morning
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11:29:48	amiconn	bbl
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11:42:16	Tangleding	hi :)
11:42:35	Tangleding	Asianlove not here now
11:42:37	Tangleding	?
11:42:42	Tangleding	seems not
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13:50:22	tucoz	Shouldn't win32 be added to the uisimulator line on http://www.rockbox.org/cvs.html?
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14:20:47	amiconn	Bagder / Zagor: As it seems that it is considered bad design to access application data (e.g. global_settings) from the firmware layer, how should this be handled?
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15:44:27	MoosCamaro	Hi all
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18:05:48	wacky	what is the Searchengine plugin ?!
18:06:14	wacky	the wiki page is just so unclear about what it should and shouldn't do :)
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19:01:19	HCl	heh o.o
19:01:49	HCl	the wiki page of the searchengine plugin is mostly for self-reference to how its designed
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22:38:40	crashd	hey guys, what format are images stored on the irivers
22:38:46	crashd	at least, the ones you guys are porting to
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22:56:43	preglow	hmm?
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22:56:54	preglow	what kind of iamges?
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23:18:13	*	t0mas is leaving for a week of survival tonight
23:18:21	t0mas	so see you all friday again :)
23:18:49		Quit t0mas ("bye")
23:30:24	crashd	preglow: the images for the os
23:30:36	crashd	like, there's an image replacement app floating around somewhere
23:30:41	crashd	to change images in the original iriver firmware
23:30:46	crashd	i was just wondering if anyone knew what format htey're in :]
23:31:52	preglow	well
23:31:59	preglow	2bit bitmaps, i'd guess
23:32:01	preglow	but no idea
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23:32:31	preglow	why does this matter?
23:32:36	crashd	shrug.
23:32:39	crashd	why not ;)
23:39:36	amiconn	Erm, because we're rockbox, not iriver?
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23:40:07	crashd	sigh.
23:40:09	crashd	i realsie that
23:40:12	crashd	i was just wondering if anyone had any idea
23:45:56	preglow	crashd: yeah, but why does this matter to you?
23:46:32	preglow	using anything other than the native format would surely be a waste on an embedded platform, so i assume that's what they use
23:46:50	crashd	well, i forgot you guys arent working on the i3 series yet
23:46:59	Bagder	?
23:47:00	crashd	so the point is moot :]
23:47:12	Bagder	we won't use their firmware on the h3x0 either
23:47:15	preglow	i _still_ don't get what you're trying to do here ;)
23:47:18	crashd	i know this
23:47:19	crashd	right.
23:47:25	preglow	why would we care?
23:47:29	crashd	preglow: strip the images out of that h10 rom
23:47:39	crashd	as ive found some of them
23:47:47	preglow	crashd: it's irrelevant, the h10 will surely use some other format
23:47:55	crashd	well
23:47:57	crashd	im not so sure about that
23:47:58	crashd	but anyway
23:48:00	Bagder	it might use the same has the h3x0
23:48:06	preglow	sure, if it's got the same lcd
23:48:07	crashd	it was just an offhand question
23:48:21	Bagder	crashd: try to contact one of those image-replacement-program guys
23:48:31	preglow	and i have no idea, if stripwax were here, he'd be able to answer, i imagine
23:48:41	Bagder	right, he should know
23:48:48	crashd	yeah
23:49:11	Bagder	then of course, using those images for anything isn't legal
23:49:17	crashd	of course
23:49:20	crashd	but that wasn't my intention
23:49:21	crashd	in the least
23:49:27	preglow	who'd want them anyway ;)
23:49:31	crashd	exactly!
23:49:45	Bagder	for the iriver skin for rockbox! ;-P
23:49:50	preglow	hahaha
23:49:54	preglow	*shiver
23:50:04	LinusN	iShiver
23:50:09	preglow	haha
23:50:14	preglow	the large font they use give me nightmares
23:54:30	preglow	LinusN: did the mirrored ram bug get fixed a long time ago?
23:56:01	LinusN	yes
23:57:33	preglow	the new usb bootloader mode rocks, btw
23:57:54	preglow	a really nice addition
23:58:51	LinusN	yes, it another safety measyre
23:58:57	LinusN	measure

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