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| 00:09:41 | flack | Those are pretty good shots - pity they're such low res |
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| 00:34:11 | darkskiez | i need to buy a new player, my ihp140 broke, what do folks recommend |
| 00:34:21 | OctalENPH | I got a really cheap iPod. <_< |
| 00:34:27 | * | OctalENPH ducks. |
| 00:34:56 | darkskiez | quack |
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| 00:49:30 | amiconn | flack: Seems the IGP-100 has 16MByte RAM, like the H-110/H-115 |
| 00:52:11 | flack | Ah |
| 00:52:33 | flack | strange why it buffers so often |
| 00:52:43 | flack | oh well, not the first strange thing iriver did |
| 00:58:43 | amiconn | Hmm, I could need some help from Linus... It seems the problem with the MAS beep disturbing the recording is caused by a race condition somehow |
| 00:58:50 | | Quit DMJC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:59:52 | amiconn | The mpeg thread does some i2c memory reads while the main thread calls audio_beep() which does i2c register writes in quick succession |
| 01:00 |
| 01:00:04 | amiconn | But: i2c is protected by a mutex... |
| 01:00:52 | preglow | linus is soundly asleep |
| 01:01:09 | amiconn | Yes I know........... |
| 01:01:29 | amiconn | That's what logs are good for. |
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| 01:12:01 | flack | Would be nice if those FCC people would publish higher res. photos |
| 01:15:29 | amiconn | It would be nice if they would publish *working* PDFs |
| 01:20:43 | | Quit ender` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 01:22:24 | flack | worked for me using gpdf |
| 01:23:06 | amiconn | Well, adobe reader 7 has severe problems showing the pictures |
| 01:23:27 | | Join Rob- [0] (n=robbie@haylott.plus.com) |
| 01:23:36 | amiconn | It shows them initially after loading, but scrolling them out of sight and back erases them |
| 01:24:12 | amiconn | Btw, it seems I found the cause for the recording beep bug |
| 01:24:15 | amiconn | :-) |
| 01:24:41 | flack | Sounds like acrobat is on crack. |
| 01:26:35 | flack | So is this one of the annoying cases where finding the cause is nowhere near fixing the bug? |
| 01:26:42 | flack | Or might it actually get fixed? |
| 01:30:14 | amiconn | I'm just about to commit the fix :) |
| 01:31:29 | flack | Nice |
| 01:36:35 | amiconn | The fix is one single line |
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| 01:55:02 | flack | wow, it really is hard to tell what's going on here: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/rdiff/Main/FeatureComparison |
| 01:55:09 | flack | Something changed from yes to no - but what?! |
| 01:55:17 | flack | eh, no to yes |
| 01:56:15 | flack | Ah, Ogg decoding support in Iriver |
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| 06:00 |
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| 06:01:56 | Andrew179 | hey guys...I need some advice about buying a new portable player, since my iriver h120 recently died |
| 06:02:54 | Andrew179 | I like the looks of the iaudio x5, but I haven't noticed any activity in the wiki about it |
| 06:03:45 | Andrew179 | rockbox on the iriver was very nice, but new irivers are selling for way too much for me to get another one |
| 06:04:17 | Andrew179 | so I guess my question is, does anyone know about the status of rockbox on the x5? |
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| 07:04:07 | midk | not i!! |
| 07:04:22 | midk | ha!! 59m 51s after your last message.. i'm so good. |
| 07:04:29 | midk | er... 49s. |
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| 08:12:56 | amiconn | Morning |
| 08:23:54 | solex | moin |
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| 08:51:27 | kurzhaarrocker | LinusN: Somehow I have a feeling that you already noticed I updated the auto source selection patch ... |
| 08:51:42 | LinusN | i noticed |
| 08:53:29 | kurzhaarrocker | Maybe you even noticed my desire to break the ui design rules? |
| 08:53:42 | LinusN | yes' |
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| 10:00 |
| 10:00:11 | Toni1 | Hi there |
| 10:00:29 | Toni1 | Linus, you're around? |
| 10:01:25 | Toni1 | Does anybody know the status of %Fc issue? |
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| 10:05:23 | LinusN | Toni1: YES |
| 10:05:37 | LinusN | oops, caps lock :-) |
| 10:06:05 | Toni1 | Linus, do you know, if someone is working on %Fc? |
| 10:07:24 | LinusN | i am |
| 10:07:33 | LinusN | Toni1: what exactly is your problem |
| 10:07:34 | LinusN | ? |
| 10:08:44 | Toni1 | Solve the %F(c) issue on the ReleaseToDo list. |
| 10:09:00 | Toni1 | If not yet done |
| 10:09:23 | | Join Zagor [0] (i=foobar@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/Zagor) |
| 10:10:24 | LinusN | Toni1: yes, but what *exactly* is the issue for you? |
| 10:11:00 | LinusN | is it that the %Fc gives the wrong codec? |
| 10:11:56 | Toni1 | Ah no, the issue on archos.. |
| 10:13:10 | LinusN | Toni1: you mean that you want to handle the case when the %F info isn't available? |
| 10:13:57 | Toni1 | I did not investigate yet, but yes. |
| 10:15:46 | LinusN | what are the symptoms of your problem? |
| 10:17:07 | Toni1 | I mainly like to get some more greens in the ReleaseToDos. So I thought, this might be a good starting point. |
| 10:17:42 | LinusN | oh |
| 10:19:33 | Toni1 | If there is nothing to be done on that item, how about the playlist issue? Do you know, wether it is reproducable? |
| 10:20:35 | LinusN | itäs not |
| 10:20:45 | Toni1 | :-( |
| 10:21:14 | LinusN | iirc, none of us developers have experienced the problem |
| 10:21:29 | Toni1 | Anything else I could help? |
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| 10:24:13 | LinusN | Toni1: you could always do some massive recordings to see if it's stable |
| 10:24:41 | Toni1 | You mention my latest patch? |
| 10:25:15 | | Quit midk ("Leaving") |
| 10:28:36 | LinusN | Toni1: that patch was for iriver, wasn't it? |
| 10:29:14 | Toni1 | Yes, right. |
| 10:30:48 | LinusN | the release is for archos, so we want to test the archos stuff |
| 10:31:34 | * | amiconn has turned one more item green in the ReleaseTodo last night |
| 10:31:47 | LinusN | saw that, great |
| 10:32:22 | B4gder | good work amiconn! |
| 10:33:21 | amiconn | LinusN: While we primarily want to test archos stuff, I don't think iriver bugfixing should be neglected |
| 10:33:38 | LinusN | absolutely not |
| 10:33:40 | amiconn | The freeze is a good opportunity to fix bugs on all platforms, see my comment here: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=1419.msg8566#msg8566 |
| 10:33:46 | LinusN | saw that |
| 10:34:03 | kurzhaarrocker | LinusN sees EVERYTHING |
| 10:34:10 | kurzhaarrocker | LinusN is watching us |
| 10:34:39 | B4gder | he has his spies everywhere |
| 10:35:09 | kurzhaarrocker | He's probably Lord Vetinaris big brother. |
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| 10:51:06 | kurzhaarrocker | is it necessary to build binutils _before_ gcc? |
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| 10:52:46 | Zagor | afaik the binutils is used when building gcc |
| 10:53:19 | kurzhaarrocker | Thanx. :( |
| 10:53:29 | | Join thegeek [0] (n=thegeek@s057b.studby.ntnu.no) |
| 10:53:35 | HCl | sup? |
| 10:54:14 | B4gder | HCl: how come you treat a zero crc32 as no crc? |
| 10:54:39 | | Join mbr [0] (n=mb@stz-softwaretechnik.de) |
| 10:54:44 | B4gder | in the runtimedb |
| 10:54:57 | HCl | um, why not 0? o.o.. |
| 10:55:05 | B4gder | because a crc32 is 32bits |
| 10:55:18 | B4gder | 0 is thus a valid crc32 value |
| 10:55:22 | HCl | its either that or adding an extra field to the tagdatabase whether a file has an valid crc or not |
| 10:55:27 | HCl | i know |
| 10:56:13 | B4gder | I just think it is a way too weird thing to do, imagine the day someone actually get a file with crc zero |
| 10:56:38 | HCl | then that one file won't work in the runtime database |
| 10:56:43 | B4gder | yes |
| 10:56:54 | HCl | i need a way to determine whether a file has a valid crc or not |
| 10:56:58 | B4gder | why? |
| 10:57:09 | HCl | i can take out the code entirely but that would work rather icky |
| 10:57:18 | HCl | cause all files with no crc would share the same runtime data |
| 10:57:28 | HCl | which is hardly what you want |
| 10:57:48 | B4gder | if you disabled the CRC on purpose you surely don't care |
| 10:58:22 | HCl | well, the 0 value is used elsewhere as well, like when for unknown reasons an io error occured when reading the file for crc. |
| 10:58:42 | HCl | in any case |
| 10:58:55 | HCl | its only an improvement over the proposed "1" value |
| 10:59:24 | B4gder | that "improvement" showed a problem in the implemtation that I was unaware of |
| 11:00 |
| 11:00:52 | HCl | welp, i can bump the database version and add an crcvalid field, if you'd prefer that? |
| 11:02:00 | HCl | i personally don't think that assuming a crc of 0 is invalid is so terrible |
| 11:02:07 | B4gder | I would prefer documentation |
| 11:02:12 | HCl | since there's a chance of 1 in 4 billion that one would actually encounter such a file |
| 11:02:19 | | Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net) |
| 11:02:27 | B4gder | CRCs aren't random |
| 11:02:40 | B4gder | so yes, until found out the chance is in a 4 billion |
| 11:02:41 | HCl | i know that |
| 11:03:15 | B4gder | so |
| 11:03:20 | B4gder | if this would've been documented |
| 11:03:27 | B4gder | I would've reacted a long time ago |
| 11:03:42 | LinusN | B4gder: read the source code :-) |
| 11:04:13 | HCl | shall i add a comment on the wiki saying that crc 0 means the crc is invalid? |
| 11:04:18 | B4gder | yes please |
| 11:04:41 | B4gder | I'll make sure songdb.pl never creates a zero crc |
| 11:04:44 | Slasheri | HCl: i think there should never be that change |
| 11:04:48 | Slasheri | *chance |
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| 11:06:45 | HCl | Slasheri: well, the only alternative is adding a field that says whether the crc is valid or not to the fileentry |
| 11:07:02 | LinusN | yes |
| 11:07:15 | LinusN | so we should do that |
| 11:07:51 | B4gder | the alternative is to hack the crc32 functions to never return 0 |
| 11:07:55 | Rick | I don't think that's much of a problem |
| 11:07:59 | Rick | 1 byte |
| 11:08:03 | Rick | oooooh... ahhhh... |
| 11:08:04 | Rick | :P |
| 11:08:47 | B4gder | the one byte is not the problem |
| 11:08:54 | B4gder | the all-people-need-to-adjust is the problem |
| 11:09:13 | LinusN | i don't see the problem |
| 11:09:43 | HCl | yea, what B4gder said |
| 11:09:55 | HCl | i'm just glad that the tagdatabase is detached from the runtime database |
| 11:09:56 | LinusN | sure, people will need to regenerate their databases |
| 11:10:02 | HCl | so it won't invalidate the runtime database |
| 11:10:48 | LinusN | we can't strive for backward compatibility for the daily builds |
| 11:11:06 | HCl | yea, it would require way too much new code added |
| 11:19:27 | Rick | well |
| 11:19:30 | Rick | at least version the files |
| 11:19:32 | Rick | so if its old |
| 11:19:37 | Rick | you can whine and bitch at the user saying its old |
| 11:19:38 | Rick | :P |
| 11:21:00 | CoCoLUS | rockbox needs some original easter eggs ;) |
| 11:26:48 | HCl | Rick: the database already has versioning support |
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| 11:30:24 | HCl | there, i think i fixed it, i'll try it later. |
| 11:33:29 | | Quit Paul_The_Nerd ("Chatzilla 0.9.68a [Firefox 1.0.6/20050716]") |
| 11:39:13 | | Part kurzhaarrocker |
| 11:39:17 | * | HCl hmmz and thinks an hash-type field might be useful when improving hash algorhythms |
| 11:39:45 | | Join Moos [0] (i=Moos@m60.net81-66-158.noos.fr) |
| 11:39:50 | HCl | oh, i know. i can rename the hashvalid field to hashtype and have an hashtype of 0 be invalid. |
| 11:41:06 | | Join kurzhaarrocker [0] (n=knoppix@p50909C4D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:43:16 | HCl | that would allow converting between hash types when better hashing algorhythms become available |
| 11:43:16 | LinusN | HCl: good idea |
| 11:43:21 | kurzhaarrocker | amiconn, in case you are interested: When I compile gcc for sh1 with knoppix it fails to compile embed-bb.c because it doesn't find stdio.h, sys/types.h, (and more) included from tsystem.h |
| 11:43:47 | LinusN | HCl: psst: it's "algorithm" |
| 11:43:53 | HCl | darnit! i always get it wrong |
| 11:43:54 | HCl | thanks |
| 11:43:54 | HCl | :) |
| 11:44:05 | * | HCl will print it down somewhere to remember |
| 11:44:32 | LinusN | kurzhaarrocker: then you need the newlib fix |
| 11:44:34 | thegeek | hehehe |
| 11:44:37 | thegeek | "print it down";) |
| 11:45:11 | kurzhaarrocker | I already have put newlib in the gcc directory |
| 11:45:24 | LinusN | then it should work |
| 11:45:59 | HCl | i hate altering the runtime database, but. i should add the hashtype field to the runtime database as well |
| 11:46:12 | LinusN | why do you hate altering it? |
| 11:46:23 | HCl | because it completely invalidates all runtime info gathered by users |
| 11:46:38 | HCl | and requires them to start from scratch |
| 11:46:39 | LinusN | ah, the *runtime* database |
| 11:46:49 | LinusN | i should learn to read |
| 11:47:12 | HCl | i will write a java converter to update an old runtime database to the improved format. |
| 11:47:19 | HCl | so people won't lose their database |
| 11:47:53 | LinusN | write a small script to migrate it |
| 11:49:03 | HCl | yea |
| 11:49:10 | HCl | i guess perl should work fine too |
| 11:49:17 | HCl | its a simple adjustment |
| 11:52:12 | kurzhaarrocker | let me guess: there's a -i missing in the parameters that are passed to xgcc: <snip>-isystem /home/knoppix/gcc-3.3.6/newlib/libc/include </snip> |
| 11:53:24 | LinusN | HCl: or maybe a plugin |
| 11:54:01 | LinusN | kurzhaarrocker: it should work if you put newlib in the correct place |
| 11:55:07 | | Quit Moos (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 11:55:20 | LinusN | kurzhaarrocker: but you need to reconfigure and rebuild |
| 11:55:55 | | Join Moos [0] (i=Moos@m60.net81-66-158.noos.fr) |
| 11:56:07 | kurzhaarrocker | I put newlib in the gcc directory before calling configure |
| 11:57:55 | LinusN | ok |
| 11:58:48 | kurzhaarrocker | /home/knoppix/build/gcc/gcc/xgcc -B/home/knoppix/build/gcc/gcc/ -nostdinc -B/home/knoppix/build/gcc/sh-elf/newlib/ -isystem /home/knoppix/build/gcc/sh-elf/newlib/targ-include -isystem /home/knoppix/gcc-3.3.6/newlib/libc/include -B/home/knoppix/sh1/sh-elf/bin/ -B/home/knoppix/sh1/sh-elf/lib/ -isystem /home/knoppix/sh1/sh-elf/include -O2 -DIN_GCC -DCROSS_COMPILE -W -Wall -Wwrite-strings -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -i |
| 11:58:48 | kurzhaarrocker | system ./include -g -DIN_LIBGCC2 -D__GCC_FLOAT_NOT_NEEDED -Dinhibit_libc -I. -I. -I../../../gcc-3.3.6/gcc -I../../../gcc-3.3.6/gcc/. -I../../../gcc-3.3.6/gcc/config -I../../../gcc-3.3.6/gcc/../include -c embed-bb.c -o libgcc/./embed-bb.o |
| 11:59:14 | | Quit Rick ("I… don't need to be here.") |
| 11:59:26 | kurzhaarrocker | Isn't there a -i missing just before /home/knoppix/gcc-3.3.6/newlib/libc/include ? |
| 11:59:28 | | Join Rick [0] (i=rick@pool-71-108-13-161.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 12:00 |
| 12:00:47 | LinusN | kurzhaarrocker: sure looks like it |
| 12:01:45 | LinusN | nah |
| 12:02:59 | LinusN | i don't know much about xcc, but it looks like the cmdline switch is "-isystem" and the argument is the path |
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| 12:09:12 | kurzhaarrocker | Then I don't understand why it doesn't find the included files. I verified that they are there. |
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| 12:11:42 | LinusN | kurzhaarrocker: weird |
| 12:12:24 | | Part sylviapylvia |
| 12:23:14 | kurzhaarrocker | but you were right. The option really is -isystem. It adds a dir to the start of the system include path. |
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| 12:30:58 | * | kurzhaarrocker blushes |
| 12:31:19 | kurzhaarrocker | There's a nested newlib - which I should have used |
| 12:33:55 | kurzhaarrocker | lunch |
| 12:33:58 | | Quit kurzhaarrocker ("Verlassend") |
| 13:00 |
| 13:00:33 | * | B4gder grrrs |
| 13:10:14 | * | preglow hrmphs |
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| 13:21:03 | amiconn | Hmm. It seems the voice entries in the .lang files need some attention. http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=1416.msg8580#msg8580 |
| 13:21:33 | amiconn | (or it's just me needing to create up-to-date voice files) |
| 13:22:30 | preglow | hmm |
| 13:22:37 | preglow | i wonder how rockbox would work with a preemptive threading system |
| 13:23:19 | B4gder | we'd need to add lots of locks and mutex calls all over |
| 13:23:20 | Slasheri | at the moment it absolutely would not |
| 13:23:25 | Slasheri | yes |
| 13:23:37 | Slasheri | but indeed, pre-emptive threading would be nice |
| 13:23:47 | preglow | perhaps |
| 13:24:30 | preglow | it's just that yield() bugs are pretty obscure, but i'm not certain preemptive threads would make our lives easier |
| 13:24:49 | amiconn | I think they would do the opposite |
| 13:25:03 | B4gder | I agree |
| 13:26:12 | preglow | i tend to agree as well |
| 13:28:53 | amiconn | The yield() bug with the archos was so obscure because it was not just a missing yield() |
| 13:29:28 | amiconn | The audio_beep() *did* yield before, although it wasn't visible. The i2c code yields when waiting for the device |
| 13:30:18 | amiconn | The real problem was that both main and mpeg thread tried to use i2c and didn't yield explicitly., So one could block the other as i2c access is mutexed |
| 13:49:13 | LinusN | imho, preemptive multitasking opens the door to way more obscure bugs than the yield() bugs |
| 13:50:22 | preglow | very probably true |
| 13:50:37 | preglow | i've bumped into my share of obscure threading bugs |
| 13:51:15 | preglow | and anyway, cooperative threading makes it easier to properly use things like code cache |
| 13:57:28 | amiconn | I think preemptive multitasking would also increase code size |
| 14:00 |
| 14:00:31 | preglow | but anywho, if i were to code a wavwriter, any thoughts on how it should be implemented? i was thinking something along a file context menu entry |
| 14:02:19 | LinusN | would be cool |
| 14:02:25 | LinusN | a transcode plugin :-) |
| 14:02:26 | preglow | amiconn says he doesn't want one |
| 14:02:47 | preglow | LinusN: yeah, linuxstb says he wants to code it as a plugin, problem is, we then need a way for plugins to load codecs |
| 14:02:58 | LinusN | well, it would primarily be a debugging tool, so kind of agree |
| 14:03:17 | preglow | sure, me too, but this is a debugging tool that also has uses for those thusly inclined |
| 14:03:34 | amiconn | LinusN: I noticed that VBRI headers aren't fully supported in mp3data.c. I wonder why, there's quite some documentation on the net... |
| 14:03:50 | preglow | arbitrary seek support, perhaps? |
| 14:03:51 | LinusN | when i wrote it, there were no docs |
| 14:03:59 | preglow | we'll need a dynamic buffer |
| 14:04:28 | LinusN | plus, the seek table is bigger than the xing |
| 14:04:43 | LinusN | and seeking involves more calculation than xing, iirc |
| 14:04:43 | preglow | i think it can be as big as you want it to |
| 14:04:52 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 14:04:56 | | Nick Sucka is now known as Sucka`away (n=NNSCRIPT@host81-156-159-120.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) |
| 14:05:32 | amiconn | LinusN: The seek table is variable size with VBRI, however, I think that shouldn't stop us from supporting it |
| 14:05:33 | preglow | anyway, i don't think it's too widespread |
| 14:05:38 | LinusN | the vbri reference code uses floats |
| 14:06:19 | LinusN | amiconn: the vbri seek table can be pretty big, and it uses longs instead of bytes |
| 14:06:30 | LinusN | so it will be considerably bigger |
| 14:06:39 | LinusN | but that should be a big problem |
| 14:06:44 | preglow | what, xing seek table uses _bytes_ ? |
| 14:06:46 | LinusN | should *not* |
| 14:06:55 | preglow | no wonder it has such low granularity |
| 14:07:01 | LinusN | bah, me silly |
| 14:07:15 | LinusN | preglow: of course it doesn't |
| 14:07:29 | LinusN | i'm just babbling |
| 14:07:34 | preglow | goodie |
| 14:08:05 | * | preglow plays with his new iram |
| 14:08:05 | LinusN | anyway, the reason we don't support vbri is that the docs weren't there when i wrote the vbri parser, and i just haven't cared since |
| 14:08:14 | | Join muesli- [0] (i=muesli_t@hmln-d9b8e271.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 14:09:54 | amiconn | The Xing seek table is a fixed 100-byte table |
| 14:10:12 | muesli- | g'day |
| 14:10:20 | preglow | woop, brb |
| 14:10:43 | amiconn | LinusN: You were right about the Xing toc using bytes |
| 14:10:55 | LinusN | hmmm |
| 14:11:30 | LinusN | right |
| 14:12:35 | amiconn | Here are some docs about both vbr headers: http://www.codeproject.com/audio/MPEGAudioInfo.asp#Anchor-18112 |
| 14:13:48 | amiconn | The only float value in VBRI is the delay |
| 14:16:09 | | Join k0oba [0] (i=en@f01m-8-231.d1.club-internet.fr) |
| 14:19:33 | k0oba | hello |
| 14:19:45 | LinusN | amiconn: http://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/amm/download/mp3_vbr_sdk.zip |
| 14:20:27 | LinusN | amiconn: lots of floats in that code |
| 14:27:11 | amiconn | We aren't obliged to use this code, correct? |
| 14:27:30 | amiconn | I'm not even sure whether it is gpl compatible |
| 14:30:03 | | Quit k0oba (herbert.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
| 14:30:03 | NSplit | herbert.freenode.net irc.freenode.net |
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| 14:30:03 | | Quit linuxstb (herbert.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
| 14:30:03 | | Quit Zagor (herbert.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) |
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| 14:30:38 | CoCoLUS | all hail, split |
| 14:30:55 | LinusN | amiconn: no, we shouldn't use that code |
| 14:31:13 | NHeal | herbert.freenode.net irc.freenode.net |
| 14:31:13 | NJoin | Bagder [0] (n=daniel@1-1-5-26a.hud.sth.bostream.se) |
| 14:31:13 | NJoin | k0oba [0] (i=en@f01m-8-231.d1.club-internet.fr) |
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| 14:31:13 | NJoin | cYmen [0] (n=cymen@nat-ph3-wh.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de) |
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| 14:31:13 | NJoin | DangerousDan [0] (n=Miranda@newtpulsifer.campus.luth.se) |
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| 14:31:13 | NJoin | bluebrother^ [0] (n=c28@nat-ph3-wh.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de) |
| 14:31:13 | NJoin | Strath [0] (n=mike@dpc674681214.direcpc.com) |
| 14:31:13 | NJoin | coob [0] (i=pen0r@host-84-9-63-253.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 14:31:14 | NJoin | Asku [0] (n=aksu@adsl-39.180-DynIP.ssp.fi) |
| 14:31:14 | NJoin | igor47 [0] (n=igor47@temple.src.uchicago.edu) |
| 14:31:14 | NJoin | godzirra [0] (i=shawn@c-24-131-13-213.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 14:31:14 | NJoin | dwihno [0] (n=dw@81.8.224.89) |
| 14:31:14 | NJoin | crwl [0] (n=crawlie@c15.kekkola.jyu.fi) |
| 14:31:14 | NJoin | ze [0] (i=ze@ca-dstreet-cuda2-c9a-73.snbrca.adelphia.net) |
| 14:31:14 | NJoin | odd [0] (i=mrodd@fangorn.starshadow.com) |
| 14:31:14 | Mode | "#RockBox +o Bagder " by irc.freenode.net |
| 14:31:17 | | Quit t0mas (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 14:31:18 | amiconn | Apart from that it's C++ |
| 14:31:22 | LinusN | yup |
| 14:31:27 | | Join t0mas [0] (n=Tomas@unaffiliated/t0mas) |
| 14:46:58 | | Quit k0oba (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 14:48:44 | | Quit ashridah ("Leaving") |
| 14:55:36 | LinusN | i want replaygain support for archos |
| 14:55:44 | amiconn | LinusN: Lazy floating point routines... |
| 14:55:58 | * | amiconn doesn't care about replaygain |
| 14:56:25 | LinusN | amiconn: yeah, those floats don't seem necessary |
| 14:56:44 | LinusN | i don't care about replaygain either, but i know it's a feature people want |
| 14:57:47 | | Join k0oba [0] (i=en@f01m-8-231.d1.club-internet.fr) |
| 14:57:54 | k0oba | well |
| 14:59:05 | k0oba | 1st visit here i just installed rockbox on my old 6000 sounds something very cool since 2 year i am on the original firmware really limited and now i see a Light with the rockbox firmware thx to the team and if anyone is ok for givin me few tips.... |
| 15:00 |
| 15:00:22 | | Join muesli__ [0] (i=muesli_t@hmln-d5147630.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 15:01:10 | LinusN | k0oba: welcome to a better world :-) |
| 15:01:17 | k0oba | thx m8 |
| 15:01:54 | k0oba | it sounds so cool (like better sounds settings... |
| 15:02:08 | k0oba | i just noticed it was ok also to play the mix where u stopped |
| 15:02:13 | k0oba | and not from the beginin |
| 15:02:19 | k0oba | <3 |
| 15:02:27 | k0oba | erf how cud i live without |
| 15:06:27 | amiconn | LinusN: I have a slight problem with my intended playtime calculation changes. I have to prevent overflows, which are more likely with a formula like filetime = framecount * framesamples / frequency than with the current filetime = framecount * frametime / 1000 |
| 15:07:10 | LinusN | init64? |
| 15:07:13 | LinusN | int64 |
| 15:07:19 | LinusN | long long |
| 15:07:46 | amiconn | I'm hesitant to use long long just for this. It would cause the multiplication and division routines to be linked to the binary |
| 15:07:52 | amiconn | (muldi3 and divdi3) |
| 15:08:03 | amiconn | divdi3 is > 1 KB for SH1... |
| 15:11:56 | preglow | hmm |
| 15:12:16 | preglow | doesn't replaygain for mp3 files act like mp3gain, in that it modifies the gain in each frame? |
| 15:12:45 | amiconn | preglow: I don't think so |
| 15:12:56 | preglow | hmm, ok |
| 15:13:13 | preglow | what gain granularity does the mas have? |
| 15:18:36 | | Quit Febs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 15:19:09 | | Join rasher [0] (n=3e4f4094@labb.contactor.se) |
| 15:19:35 | rasher | Does anyone know about the Hebrew fonts? They appear not to be in iso8859-8, which seems .. wrong. |
| 15:21:13 | amiconn | MAS3507 (or rather, DAC3550) has 1.5 dB, MAS3587 and MAS3539 has 1 dB granularity |
| 15:21:18 | amiconn | (main volume) |
| 15:22:25 | | Quit muesli- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 15:22:28 | preglow | so, replaygain support wont yield anything more than mp3gain support |
| 15:22:48 | amiconn | The MAS3507 prescaler has 1 dB granularity, the MAS3587/3539 prescaler has a linear scale |
| 15:25:00 | LinusN | rasher: no, i don't know much about the hebrew fonts |
| 15:25:30 | rasher | They don't work with the current translation, that's for sure |
| 15:26:33 | rasher | You get all sorts of ùöí type characters |
| 15:26:54 | rasher | Using an iso8859-8 font from http://www.rasher.dk/rockbox/fonts/hebrew/ looks right |
| 15:27:18 | rasher | Not that I know hebrew, but I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be written using only those letters |
| 15:28:37 | rasher | I'll try and convert one of the current fonts to 8859-8 |
| 15:28:52 | rasher | If I can convince fontforge that it's a good idea |
| 15:30:04 | muesli__ | gotta go 4 coffee :D |
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| 16:00 |
| 16:04:53 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 16:06:55 | | Quit hicks (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 16:09:28 | amiconn | preglow: Afaik mp3gain doesn't need to be explicitly supported at all |
| 16:09:51 | rasher | It doesn't. |
| 16:10:37 | rasher | Looks like fontforge has decided to let me do this afterall |
| 16:11:03 | rasher | Any objections to adjusting the Hebrew-* fonts to be iso8859-8? |
| 16:11:05 | LinusN | i don't see the connection at all between mp3gain and replaygain |
| 16:11:50 | preglow | amiconn: no, it doesn't |
| 16:11:51 | amiconn | Iiuc both do the same thing, only in a different waY |
| 16:12:17 | preglow | they both do the same, mp3gain additionally alters each frame to make all players support it directly, however, the intrinsic mp3 gain granularity is 1.5 db |
| 16:12:48 | LinusN | preglow: but does mp3gain add replaygain tags? |
| 16:12:53 | preglow | LinusN: probably not |
| 16:12:59 | preglow | but i have no idea |
| 16:13:01 | amiconn | While replaygain adds tags that store a level-correction value and works for various formats, mp3gain modifies all frames directly, and works for mp3 only |
| 16:13:05 | LinusN | so there is no connection then |
| 16:13:11 | preglow | i believe mp3gain adds tags as well |
| 16:13:21 | preglow | what kind, i know not |
| 16:13:34 | LinusN | it adds "undo" information |
| 16:13:39 | Moos | APE maybe |
| 16:13:44 | LinusN | yes |
| 16:13:58 | rasher | Yes, undo information in APE tags.. It's a horror show |
| 16:14:12 | | Nick Mark_`away is now known as Mark_ (n=Mark@cpc1-bele3-3-1-cust167.belf.cable.ntl.com) |
| 16:14:25 | rasher | Argh! Fontforge is reporting iso8859-8 wrong |
| 16:14:45 | rasher | apparently, 0xB? characters are some sort of weird dots |
| 16:14:49 | rasher | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO-8859-8 |
| 16:14:58 | rasher | eh, 0xC? |
| 16:15:11 | B4gder | hey, hebrew is weird all over not only in 0xb? ;-) |
| 16:16:10 | rasher | Well, up to 0x7? is fine |
| 16:16:31 | rasher | Thing is, fontforge has a "preview" thing that shows what the character's supposed to be according to the encoding |
| 16:16:36 | rasher | Doesn't show these dot-things |
| 16:18:17 | rasher | I'm confused. |
| 16:18:35 | preglow | didn't there exist a unicode patch for rockbox at some stage? |
| 16:18:46 | rasher | Still does |
| 16:18:53 | preglow | does it still work? |
| 16:19:00 | rasher | It's not that old |
| 16:19:09 | rasher | But not complete either |
| 16:19:30 | preglow | uses utf8? |
| 16:19:32 | rasher | It got assigned to me :-O |
| 16:19:50 | rasher | Think so |
| 16:19:59 | preglow | hmm |
| 16:20:06 | preglow | i think i'll try the wav patch out |
| 16:20:10 | preglow | or is anyone else working on that? |
| 16:20:15 | rasher | http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&atid=439120&group_id=44306&aid=1267994 |
| 16:20:30 | | Join zezayer [0] (n=zezayer@87.81.166.52) |
| 16:21:15 | LinusN | preglow: please do |
| 16:21:20 | Moos | preglow: I'm wondering if Lear don't working on it already, but not sure |
| 16:21:33 | LinusN | we need to investigate all these ogg playback problems people are reporting |
| 16:21:49 | LinusN | i want lear to add replaygain support for archos |
| 16:21:58 | Moos | hehe :) |
| 16:22:01 | rasher | Ehm.. What's the point of the Hebrew-small and Hebrew-medium fonts? |
| 16:22:12 | LinusN | point? |
| 16:22:12 | rasher | They're practically identical to Hebrew-large |
| 16:22:16 | LinusN | oh :-) |
| 16:22:18 | preglow | give me a file and i'll check that out as well |
| 16:22:32 | LinusN | preglow: misticriver |
| 16:23:03 | preglow | now, there's a site i haven't been to in a while |
| 16:23:08 | rasher | There was one related to chained vorbis streams |
| 16:23:13 | rasher | apparently that'll crash |
| 16:23:21 | preglow | lear said he knew how to fix those easily |
| 16:24:07 | LinusN | gotta go |
| 16:24:15 | Moos | ciao :) |
| 16:24:26 | Moos | c you later |
| 16:24:33 | preglow | are there actually people adding _id3_ tags to vorbis files??? |
| 16:24:38 | LinusN | will hold a speech about reverse engineering and rockbox, with daniel and björn |
| 16:24:52 | rasher | preglow: Worse, there are programs that default to doing that |
| 16:24:52 | LinusN | cu guys |
| 16:24:56 | | Part LinusN |
| 16:25:16 | preglow | rasher: sweet god |
| 16:25:29 | rasher | I know! |
| 16:25:45 | preglow | linusn: convert them to our cause! |
| 16:25:51 | rasher | Rockbox still shouldn't crash :-\ |
| 16:25:58 | preglow | well |
| 16:26:08 | preglow | depends on the tag version |
| 16:26:11 | | Quit B4gder ("Lämnar") |
| 16:26:26 | preglow | you can't bloody prepend arbitrary data to something and expect it to work |
| 16:26:36 | preglow | god, how i hate incompetent people, id3 with ogg |
| 16:26:37 | preglow | that's rich |
| 16:26:43 | rasher | Of course not |
| 16:27:07 | rasher | Actually, I was talking of panic-type crashes |
| 16:27:14 | rasher | "codec failure" is acceptable |
| 16:27:22 | preglow | myes |
| 16:29:01 | rasher | The codec may crash - Rockbox shouldn't.. And I don't think it does, actually |
| 16:29:39 | preglow | perhaps |
| 16:29:42 | preglow | but ofcourse, i agree |
| 16:29:54 | preglow | it should never crash, however badly you abuse it |
| 16:29:58 | rasher | Ah, the hebrew part of the Hebrew-small/medium fonts differ |
| 16:30:06 | rasher | Just not the latin1 part |
| 16:30:13 | preglow | why is that even included, then? |
| 16:30:20 | rasher | Hm? |
| 16:30:27 | preglow | the non-hebrew parts |
| 16:30:41 | * | amiconn wonders what Linus wants to discuss with Björn and Daniel |
| 16:30:43 | preglow | the non-hebrew parts of the small and medium fonts are the same size? |
| 16:30:51 | rasher | Yes |
| 16:30:58 | preglow | amiconn: sounds more like they're talking to other people |
| 16:31:02 | rasher | They still need to define the glyphs, or there'll be blanks |
| 16:31:30 | preglow | rasher: ahh, i thought the format allowed non-existing glyphs |
| 16:31:40 | rasher | Ah, no. |
| 16:31:57 | preglow | if they're not even the same size as the hebrew portion, they sound kind of useless |
| 16:32:06 | amiconn | preglow: Ah, seems I slightly misread the statement |
| 16:32:12 | rasher | Speaking of - there should be some "missing glyph" bitmap |
| 16:32:32 | amiconn | The ascii part needs to be included in all fonts |
| 16:32:40 | amiconn | ...for several reasons |
| 16:32:55 | rasher | Some Russian person complained about his screen going blank after selecting russian language |
| 16:33:04 | rasher | turns out he had chicago loaded... |
| 16:33:27 | rasher | "his screen" being the menus |
| 16:33:34 | HCl | its hotttt x.x. |
| 16:34:47 | preglow | hmm |
| 16:34:54 | preglow | the patch didn't apply cleanly |
| 16:35:36 | Moos | wav patch? |
| 16:36:59 | | Join ripnetuk [0] (n=george@82-70-100-230.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 16:37:06 | | Quit ripnetuk (Remote closed the connection) |
| 16:37:16 | preglow | yup |
| 16:44:04 | | Nick Mark_ is now known as Mark_`afk (n=Mark@cpc1-bele3-3-1-cust167.belf.cable.ntl.com) |
| 16:44:09 | preglow | amiconn: how long does it take to generate a full set of voice files for a language? |
| 16:44:35 | amiconn | How do you mean, a full set? |
| 16:44:47 | preglow | well, just one voice file, then |
| 16:44:58 | rasher | Why I think a "no glyph" bitmap is a good idea: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1208986&group_id=44306&atid=439118 |
| 16:45:07 | amiconn | You will always ever need only one voice file per language. You can choose from several voices |
| 16:45:22 | amiconn | One voice takes ~5 minutes on my laptop |
| 16:45:29 | amiconn | Ergh, wrong |
| 16:45:44 | amiconn | *All* voices together take ~5 minutes |
| 16:45:52 | preglow | all voice files? |
| 16:45:54 | preglow | not bad |
| 16:46:06 | amiconn | (a total of six voice files; 5 english and 1 german) |
| 16:46:19 | rasher | Any objections to committing the 8859-8 versions of the Hebrew-* fonts? They lack some of the characters from the current versions, but I'm not sure how they'd ever be used. |
| 16:46:23 | amiconn | ~50 seconds/voice |
| 16:46:58 | preglow | still some problems with the new macsr setup |
| 16:47:05 | rasher | Also, the current versions aren't compatible with the current hebrew.lang |
| 16:47:19 | HCl | hi |
| 16:47:20 | amiconn | The upload takes much longer; that's why I asked for a way to automate it when localisation v2 will be added |
| 16:48:03 | preglow | hmm |
| 16:48:08 | amiconn | This will cause the number of voice files to multiply. If I wanted to support all 6 voices, there would be 36 files |
| 16:48:16 | preglow | does the voice ui work with wavpack playing for you guys? |
| 16:48:17 | amiconn | (6 voices * 6 platforms) |
| 16:49:19 | amiconn | Platforms: Player, recorder v1, recorder fm/v2 (they're identical), ondio sp, ondio fm, iriver H1x0 |
| 16:49:38 | preglow | it doesn't here, and i suspect that's a result of the CODEC_DSP_ENABLE thing |
| 16:49:54 | rasher | more than likely I'd say |
| 16:50:05 | amiconn | The first 5 would be in bitswapped mp3 format, the last one in non-swapped mp3 or whatever voice code we will decide upon |
| 16:51:12 | amiconn | Automated upload should be easy with curl, only precondition is that I'd need an account on the rockbox.org server |
| 16:52:39 | | Join kurzhaarrocker [0] (n=Phil@p50909C4D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:52:57 | rasher | Should be possible to do automated upload to the wiki as well |
| 16:53:16 | preglow | ahahah |
| 16:53:20 | preglow | flac is so foolishly slow |
| 16:53:29 | rasher | Assuming a utility that can "POST" files |
| 16:53:32 | preglow | amiconn: well, i don't think that should be much of a problem |
| 16:53:47 | amiconn | yes |
| 16:53:53 | kurzhaarrocker | Does anybody know how to fill a jukebox more quickly than by copying data via usb1.1? |
| 16:54:05 | preglow | doing it with usb2? :] |
| 16:54:23 | rasher | Take out the harddisk, connect it using a 2.5->3.5 adaptor? |
| 16:54:46 | preglow | bah |
| 16:54:54 | preglow | the CONFIG_DSP_ENABLE flag has to go |
| 16:55:14 | kurzhaarrocker | a good idea - but it's not worh the effort, rasher |
| 16:55:48 | * | kurzhaarrocker copies iso cd images just to fill the hd. |
| 16:55:52 | amiconn | kurzhaarrocker: How do you mean, fill? Just take up some space to test short-on-space condition? |
| 16:56:01 | kurzhaarrocker | yes, amiconn |
| 16:56:23 | rasher | Looks like curl can do HTTP POST with binary data |
| 16:56:28 | amiconn | Write a simple plugin that generates (2GB-1)-sized files |
| 16:57:04 | amiconn | The ata driver should be able to pump ~4MB/s, almost 4 times faster than USB1.1 |
| 16:58:07 | | Join DangerousDan [0] (n=Miranda@newtpulsifer.campus.luth.se) |
| 16:58:13 | preglow | is that when boosted? |
| 16:58:15 | kurzhaarrocker | That idea is even cooler :) |
| 16:58:25 | amiconn | preglow: Talking archos here... |
| 16:58:29 | preglow | ahh |
| 16:58:58 | preglow | ok |
| 16:59:15 | preglow | i'll just fix a macsr save in dsp.c now, since that runs in codec context, and i'll commit the new macsr saving stuff |
| 16:59:24 | preglow | then i'll start optimising some codecs |
| 16:59:24 | amiconn | Nice :) |
| 16:59:35 | preglow | provided that something doesn't pop up to busy me again today |
| 17:00 |
| 17:01:46 | amiconn | kurzhaarrocker: Is it your recorder that can only do USB1.1 or your computer? |
| 17:01:58 | kurzhaarrocker | both :( |
| 17:02:14 | amiconn | oh :( |
| 17:02:34 | | Quit zezayer (Remote closed the connection) |
| 17:03:44 | kurzhaarrocker | It takes 12 minutes to copy a knoppix cd image to my jukebox. |
| 17:06:21 | | Join bagawk [0] (i=1000@67-42-194-6.eugn.qwest.net) |
| 17:14:39 | rasher | amiconn: HTTP POST with curl is easy: curl -F "userfile=@filename.zip" http://somethingsomething.com/ |
| 17:15:28 | rasher | "userfile" being the name of the file input field |
| 17:16:05 | rasher | Of course, you also need -u JensArnold:password to be logged into twiki |
| 17:16:28 | rasher | Still, automation should be possible |
| 17:16:53 | amiconn | Yes, that could work too |
| 17:17:15 | amiconn | However, uploading that many voice files to the wiki might be undesirable |
| 17:17:23 | rasher | Why? |
| 17:17:37 | amiconn | The wiki does automatic versioning, so this would eat lots of space over time |
| 17:18:29 | rasher | are the old versions of files actually saved |
| 17:20:23 | rasher | Ah, it is |
| 17:20:28 | | Join TCK- [0] (i=TCK@85-210-37-66.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 17:20:32 | rasher | They are. |
| 17:20:47 | | Nick Mark_`afk is now known as Mark_ (n=Mark@cpc1-bele3-3-1-cust167.belf.cable.ntl.com) |
| 17:25:22 | rasher | HCl: Did you see my proposal for databox/searchengine? |
| 17:26:11 | rasher | (seeing as "making search plugins more userfriendly" is on the ReleaseTodo) |
| 17:34:52 | | Quit TCK (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 17:39:48 | kurzhaarrocker | does fat_size(IF_MV2(0, ) &disksize, &diskfree) return values in kilobytes? |
| 17:39:49 | HCl | rasher: not yet |
| 17:39:58 | HCl | i'm gonna shower and get dinner, then i'll look at it |
| 17:41:33 | rasher | HCl: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginSearchengine#Suggestion_to_change_interface_o |
| 17:41:58 | * | amiconn finally found a way to build the build date into the fat driver as the starting date :) |
| 17:42:11 | amiconn | ...for non-rtc platforms, taht is |
| 17:42:26 | amiconn | No more 2003-08-01 :) |
| 17:43:23 | kurzhaarrocker | Why does the build date have to be in the fat driver? |
| 17:44:43 | amiconn | Well, the non-rtc units need some faked date to use when writing files |
| 17:45:02 | kurzhaarrocker | ok |
| 17:45:15 | amiconn | The starting date used to be fixed at 2003-08-01 |
| 17:45:31 | amiconn | It's certainly better to let it start at the build date |
| 17:45:57 | kurzhaarrocker | So you have to build rockbox faster than you write the file.... |
| 17:46:10 | amiconn | ? |
| 17:46:33 | kurzhaarrocker | .. in order to have the correct time stamp for the new file |
| 17:46:44 | kurzhaarrocker | (it was supposed to be a joke) |
| 17:46:49 | amiconn | ;) |
| 17:50:47 | HCl | rasher: what does the save search option do? |
| 17:50:59 | rasher | save an .rsp |
| 17:51:08 | rasher | I think.. it's been a while since I wrote that up |
| 17:51:14 | rasher | I'll have a look again |
| 17:51:46 | HCl | i'm a bit confused over that |
| 17:51:59 | rasher | Yeah, it saves an .rsp |
| 17:52:09 | HCl | but didn't you just open databox? |
| 17:52:14 | HCl | exactly what would you be saving |
| 17:52:14 | HCl | ? |
| 17:52:37 | rasher | Wait... hang on |
| 17:52:55 | rasher | Aha! |
| 17:53:02 | rasher | edit coming up |
| 17:53:05 | HCl | okay |
| 17:53:10 | HCl | i'm gonna look at dinner in the meanwhile |
| 17:53:25 | rasher | There |
| 17:55:09 | | Nick Mark_ is now known as Mark_`afk (n=Mark@cpc1-bele3-3-1-cust167.belf.cable.ntl.com) |
| 17:56:36 | * | HCl punches f5 |
| 17:56:52 | HCl | ah yes, that makes much more sense |
| 17:57:10 | rasher | <END> was of course being interpreted as a html tag |
| 17:57:12 | rasher | silly |
| 17:57:35 | HCl | sure, i agree with that |
| 17:57:49 | HCl | the only problem is that i looked at directly adding to the playlist a while ago and couldn't figure it out |
| 17:58:05 | rasher | I guess that can be left out |
| 17:58:14 | HCl | naw |
| 17:58:20 | rasher | Well, not permanently |
| 17:58:21 | HCl | we need that feature |
| 17:58:27 | rasher | But for starters |
| 17:58:31 | HCl | hmm. |
| 17:58:33 | HCl | one thing though |
| 17:58:42 | HCl | what about running searches that we previously saved? |
| 17:59:00 | rasher | "If the plugin is opened using "Open with" on an .rsp file, the file should come up in "edit mode", the way databox does right now if you enter an existing filename." |
| 17:59:12 | HCl | so then you have to browse it before you can run it? |
| 17:59:26 | rasher | Hm.. is that a problem? |
| 17:59:31 | HCl | i dunno. |
| 17:59:43 | HCl | i kind of wanted to be able to directly run a search |
| 18:00 |
| 18:00:01 | HCl | without further input required |
| 18:00:07 | amiconn | YOu can |
| 18:00:14 | HCl | how? |
| 18:00:48 | amiconn | .rsp would be associated with searchengine, so that is what gets run if you simply play the file |
| 18:00:54 | | Quit bagawk ("Leaving") |
| 18:00:54 | | Join massoud [0] (n=massoud@tru75-5-82-234-213-176.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:00:59 | rasher | That'd remove the possibility of being able to quickly *edit* a search |
| 18:01:00 | amiconn | (or "Open with.."->searchengine) |
| 18:01:24 | rasher | In fact, with my proposal that's *the way* to edit a search |
| 18:01:30 | amiconn | You would then use "Open with..."->databox to edit |
| 18:01:42 | rasher | Oh, my idea is to unify the two |
| 18:01:48 | rasher | So there's one plugin |
| 18:02:00 | HCl | yea, they'd be merged into one.. |
| 18:02:06 | | Join dpassen1 [0] (n=dpassen1@resnet-233-61.resnet.UMBC.EDU) |
| 18:02:20 | rasher | I think splitting them is not very intuitive |
| 18:02:45 | HCl | the idea was that databox was for editing and creating, and searchengine for running |
| 18:03:22 | rasher | I know, I just think having it be a two-step process is not very userfriendly |
| 18:03:27 | amiconn | rasher: So how would you execute a query then, without going into edit mode first? |
| 18:03:32 | rasher | I wouldn't |
| 18:03:43 | | Join Newbyone [0] (n=51429e3c@labb.contactor.se) |
| 18:03:49 | HCl | i know, the original idea was that we were going to have an interface where you can do an exec() like operation for plugins |
| 18:03:51 | rasher | But it'd be a question of running the file, pressing select (or whichever button), and it's run |
| 18:04:01 | HCl | so you'd call the searchengine plugin from databox |
| 18:04:20 | rasher | (because <END> would be selected when a file is run) |
| 18:04:27 | rasher | (I think I forgot to write that) |
| 18:04:32 | HCl | more than that... |
| 18:04:37 | HCl | one click to confirm end |
| 18:04:42 | HCl | one click to confirm run |
| 18:04:47 | HCl | and then another click to confirm play |
| 18:04:58 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 18:05:00 | Newbyone | HCl: hello, is it possible to have words replaced querry for us non dev., pure nowbie? |
| 18:05:15 | HCl | i don't understand your question |
| 18:05:27 | Newbyone | :) |
| 18:05:57 | Newbyone | If I want to use your plugin, is it harder to understand how is work |
| 18:06:03 | rasher | HCl: I understand that this would be a bit slower, but I think the benefits and increased userfriendlyness is worth it |
| 18:06:19 | Newbyone | syntax is complicated for lambda people |
| 18:06:33 | HCl | rasher: thats my problem.. it would decrease userfriendlyness to actually run a search.. |
| 18:06:47 | rasher | I don't think so |
| 18:06:54 | Newbyone | is it possible to have in databox words not sign |
| 18:06:54 | amiconn | rasher: Independently whether the plugins get merged or not, we still need a way to make a plugin both a viewer and a standard plugin |
| 18:07:09 | HCl | Newbyone: i don't understand what you mean with words not sign |
| 18:07:25 | rasher | You get to see the query, and have the possibility of editing if you want to |
| 18:07:34 | rasher | amiconn: That's true |
| 18:07:38 | Newbyone | < >... are word signifiant, no? :) |
| 18:07:56 | HCl | < > tags mean tags that belong to the song |
| 18:08:09 | Newbyone | for exemple |
| 18:08:18 | HCl | rasher: we could add an item "run and play" on top of the main menu to reduce it to 2 clicks |
| 18:08:42 | HCl | and open the menu by default when opening an existing query |
| 18:08:47 | rasher | Yeah, the second menu could be removed |
| 18:08:50 | Newbyone | HCl: but for user lambda is not very intuitive, can it be more readable? |
| 18:09:06 | HCl | lambda? last time i checked thats not in databox |
| 18:09:08 | Newbyone | for you guys is easy |
| 18:09:41 | Newbyone | scuse lamda people=x user |
| 18:09:44 | HCl | i highly suggest that users use the search song / artist / album options in the browse tagdatabase for basic searches |
| 18:10:15 | Newbyone | yes but in this way we can't use your plugins |
| 18:10:26 | HCl | personally, i don't really see how databox could be made more intuitive, without resorting to graphical widgets |
| 18:10:37 | Newbyone | are they just for you dev? or something? |
| 18:10:37 | HCl | let me put it this way |
| 18:10:51 | HCl | no, but i highly suggest that people that don't understand it don't use it o.o; |
| 18:11:06 | Newbyone | pitty for us |
| 18:11:07 | HCl | if you get databox to allow you to save your query, then its correct |
| 18:11:21 | Newbyone | is not the Rockbox politic :) |
| 18:11:27 | HCl | or you could try to explain to me whats hard about it :/ |
| 18:11:34 | HCl | but i seem to lack in understanding that sometimes :/ |
| 18:11:48 | | Join amiconn_ [0] (n=jens@p54BD48DA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:11:49 | | Join Lear [0] (n=chatzill@h179n2c1o285.bredband.skanova.com) |
| 18:11:52 | HCl | i specifically designed databox in such a way so that its idiot-proof, it simply refuses to save invalid queries |
| 18:12:26 | HCl | in theory, as long as you mess around with it enough and try to understand it |
| 18:12:35 | HCl | as long as it allows you to save, your search query should be correct. |
| 18:12:44 | Newbyone | just for exemple before you did this plugins, you wanted something for "create me 1980's songs..., this is very understandable for newbiees |
| 18:12:58 | HCl | in databox it would be something like |
| 18:13:06 | HCl | year >= 1980 and year <1990 |
| 18:13:13 | Newbyone | but < > = ... not the same, you understand me? |
| 18:13:28 | HCl | i'm sorry, i'm afraid that i can't offer you a better interface o.o; |
| 18:13:33 | rasher | Newbyone: So you want to be able to write natural language and have Rockbox understand what you mean? |
| 18:13:38 | HCl | my plan is to add a series of pre-defined search queries to rockbox at a certain point. |
| 18:13:44 | | Join webguest80 [0] (n=8ddfd339@labb.contactor.se) |
| 18:13:53 | Newbyone | HCl: don't worries |
| 18:13:56 | HCl | like all songs of the 1980 |
| 18:14:04 | Newbyone | just newbee point of view |
| 18:14:21 | HCl | thats one of the reasons why i want to be able to run searches directly |
| 18:14:27 | HCl | so that newbies can use predefined searches |
| 18:14:33 | rasher | Newbyone: That's simply not going to happen. You have to formulate the query in a precise manner - which is the databox syntax |
| 18:14:37 | HCl | without having to worry about them editing and screwing them up or them having to understand how it works |
| 18:14:50 | Newbyone | make sentences more easy no, it's why said you "words" |
| 18:15:17 | HCl | i really wouldn't be able to change much aside from ">" to "greater than" |
| 18:15:20 | HCl | which is less readable imho |
| 18:15:24 | Newbyone | but not dramatical fortunatly :) |
| 18:15:27 | rasher | HCl: Yes, I agree. Let me make proposal |
| 18:15:35 | rasher | I think I have a way |
| 18:15:43 | Newbyone | yes guys |
| 18:16:43 | | Quit TCK- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 18:16:47 | Newbyone | oh need to go, thanks for heared a newbee point of view about databox |
| 18:16:52 | Newbyone | bye all |
| 18:16:54 | HCl | np, byes :) |
| 18:16:58 | | Quit Newbyone ("CGI:IRC") |
| 18:17:10 | HCl | my first priority with the searchengine is possibilities, not userfriendlyness |
| 18:17:29 | * | kurzhaarrocker killed a read ReleaseTodo |
| 18:17:33 | * | kurzhaarrocker goes home |
| 18:18:05 | rasher | HCl: I have a solution to the predefined searches thing as well |
| 18:18:28 | HCl | good :) |
| 18:18:38 | | Quit kurzhaarrocker ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com") |
| 18:19:10 | rasher | How does a .rockbox/searches/ dir, and a menu entry that shows .rsp files there sound? |
| 18:19:34 | rasher | Could be populated with some examples by default |
| 18:19:46 | rasher | And people can then save whatever they want into that dir |
| 18:20:07 | rasher | well, I'm writing.. |
| 18:20:21 | | Quit OctalENPH ("No windows for this server") |
| 18:20:39 | HCl | sounds good :) |
| 18:25:48 | | Join TCK [0] (i=TCK@85-210-58-138.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 18:26:05 | HCl | afk, food |
| 18:26:46 | rasher | K, suggestion done now. |
| 18:27:51 | | Quit amiconn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 18:27:52 | | Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@p54BD48DA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:29:49 | | Quit Wett ("Visitez www.coder-studio.com !") |
| 18:38:54 | | Join merbanan [0] (i=banan@dalink.campus.luth.se) |
| 18:50:54 | HCl | i'd rather have the list of searches in the main rockbox rather than inside a plugin, but okay |
| 18:51:31 | preglow | anyone thought anymore about widget sets? :P |
| 18:53:02 | rasher | HCl: you could make a "browse .rps files" like "browse .cfg files" |
| 18:53:07 | rasher | And do away with the list |
| 18:53:19 | rasher | and just make it jump straight to editmode |
| 18:54:17 | HCl | i don't want newbies to get dumped in edit mode though |
| 18:54:29 | HCl | maybe we can add some extra parameter when called from browse .rps files? |
| 18:54:46 | HCl | like "-<filename>" rather than "<filename>" |
| 18:54:59 | HCl | - meaning it should be run and added to the playlist immediately |
| 18:58:36 | pill | hey |
| 18:58:52 | pill | ty linus for the last WPS related commit |
| 19:00 |
| 19:00:24 | | Quit noC|andY`fRa (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 19:00:56 | rasher | You wouldn't get dumped to editmode if you run a file |
| 19:01:29 | rasher | So no need to do that |
| 19:02:18 | rasher | You'd get dumped to the "Run and play / Run and save playlist / Edit" menu |
| 19:03:47 | HCl | okay |
| 19:04:13 | HCl | first i'm gonna take a nap, then check my database enhancements, then commit those, and then i'll see what i can do. |
| 19:04:27 | rasher | Still needs a way for the plugin to be in two places |
| 19:04:32 | rasher | don't know how that'd work |
| 19:10:48 | amiconn | rasher: Imho, /.rockbox/searches should simply be shown in a sub-browser from the core, rather than as an extra choice in the plugin |
| 19:11:04 | amiconn | Same method as the .fnt / .wps etc... browsers |
| 19:11:18 | rasher | Any Hebrew people here/reading logs? |
| 19:11:23 | rasher | Hebrew-speaking/reading |
| 19:12:24 | amiconn | We would have a far easier job with these search thingies if we would have a way that a viewer plugin can distinguish whether it was invoked via "open with" or via running the file |
| 19:12:38 | amiconn | opening an - |
| 19:12:59 | amiconn | .rsp with "open with" would then open it for editing, while playing would execute the query |
| 19:13:25 | amiconn | This wouldn't be a problem when both plugins stay separate though |
| 19:14:07 | | Quit Maxime` () |
| 19:14:09 | rasher | I don't think they'll stay seperate? |
| 19:14:17 | amiconn | Why not? |
| 19:14:20 | rasher | And I agree, that'd be a nice way of handling it |
| 19:14:49 | rasher | Well, because having them split is a usability nightmare in my opinion |
| 19:15:03 | amiconn | Not if we have a way to chain them |
| 19:16:16 | rasher | It'd still be very non-obvious |
| 19:16:42 | rasher | And require creating a way of chaining them |
| 19:17:00 | | Join Maxime [0] (n=flemmard@fbx.flemmard.net) |
| 19:17:01 | rasher | Anyway, Run, select edit is quicker than opening context menu and then open with |
| 19:17:21 | rasher | So I withdraw my support of seperating run from open with |
| 19:17:57 | amiconn | Imho that'd be the best approach brought up so far... |
| 19:19:08 | amiconn | Chaining would also use that method, only without requiring to be able to distinguish in the plugin |
| 19:19:40 | rasher | What's wrong with the "Run and play / Run and save playlist / Edit" menu? |
| 19:21:18 | amiconn | Executing the query would take longer |
| 19:21:18 | | Quit webguest80 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 19:21:23 | rasher | You'd still need to differentiate between "run and play" and "run and save playlist" |
| 19:21:45 | rasher | And "edit" would be hidden in non-obvious obscurity |
| 19:22:08 | amiconn | What would be the benefit of having these 2 modes? |
| 19:22:34 | amiconn | You can always run a saved playlist with a simple click, and you can also save the current playlist |
| 19:23:04 | rasher | So you want it to always play the query? |
| 19:23:16 | amiconn | ...apart that the latter doesn't make much sense to me for a playlist resulting from a query. You can always re-run the query |
| 19:23:30 | rasher | But it might give different results next time |
| 19:23:35 | rasher | depending on the query, of course |
| 19:24:14 | amiconn | With your proposal, reaching edit mode would faster, but I think queries will be way more often just run than edited |
| 19:24:42 | rasher | A lot of people would need to ask how to edit a query |
| 19:24:49 | rasher | If it was hidden in "open with" |
| 19:25:05 | rasher | And running a query is just pressing right twice |
| 19:25:09 | rasher | instead of once |
| 19:25:23 | rasher | (differing keylayouts apply) |
| 19:26:18 | amiconn | Hmm. |
| 19:26:40 | amiconn | We still need a solution for the plugin being bivalent |
| 19:27:20 | amiconn | While thinking about this, I'd suggest to make the viewers.config mechanism a bit more flexible |
| 19:27:41 | amiconn | Currently we always show all viewers in "open with" |
| 19:28:25 | amiconn | While I do not want to restrict the list to just these plugins that support the extension (that would e.g. prevent viewing a .cfg with the text viewer)... |
| 19:29:09 | amiconn | I would like to have a mechanism whether a viewer is a catch-all, like the text viewer, or a specialised one |
| 19:29:56 | | Join webguest97 [0] (n=8ddfd339@labb.contactor.se) |
| 19:31:00 | rasher | Yeah, a flag field in viewers.conf would be helpful |
| 19:32:05 | rasher | That could also say "this viewer is to be found in rocks/" |
| 19:32:14 | rasher | Making way for duality pretty easily |
| 19:32:17 | amiconn | Regarding your suggestion for the save filename: Imho it should be something like searchNN.rsp, with NN being created by the numbered filename function like the configNN.cfg files |
| 19:32:35 | rasher | Sure |
| 19:32:45 | rasher | Forgot about that |
| 19:34:40 | | Quit webguest97 (Client Quit) |
| 19:36:55 | | Quit TCK (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 19:39:35 | | Join _aLF [0] (n=Alexandr@mut38-2-82-67-66-128.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 19:55:25 | Mark_`afk | hey |
| 19:55:50 | Mark_`afk | could the %xl be expanded to include %xl1 %xl2 etc |
| 19:56:10 | Mark_`afk | so theres 36 instead of 26 |
| 19:56:29 | Mark_`afk | i used them all even without the battery, volume or rating stuff |
| 19:56:48 | Mark_`afk | even more would be better, if theres a way |
| 20:00 |
| 20:04:59 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 20:10:15 | | Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 20:26:08 | | Join paugh [0] (n=pete@2001:5c0:8fff:ffff:8000:0:3e03:6822) |
| 20:40:56 | | Nick Mark_`afk is now known as `afk (n=Mark@cpc1-bele3-3-1-cust167.belf.cable.ntl.com) |
| 20:44:50 | | Join Wett [0] (i=Wett@AMontpellier-251-1-65-125.w81-251.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 20:50:43 | | Join matsl [0] (n=matsl@1-1-4-2a.mal.sth.bostream.se) |
| 20:52:01 | | Nick `afk is now known as iMark (n=Mark@cpc1-bele3-3-1-cust167.belf.cable.ntl.com) |
| 21:00 |
| 21:08:35 | | Join TCK [0] (i=TCK@85-210-62-87.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 21:14:55 | | Join ]RowaN[ [0] (i=a2b0y@82-43-212-52.cable.ubr10.newm.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 21:15:17 | ]RowaN[ | how (in?)accurate is the iriver battery meter in rockbox? |
| 21:18:09 | rasher | Which one? |
| 21:18:19 | rasher | The voltage? The percentage? The estimated time left? |
| 21:18:23 | ]RowaN[ | the wps one that estimes the time left |
| 21:18:33 | rasher | No idea. |
| 21:19:00 | ]RowaN[ | k. says 2 hours left.. just wondering if that'll last me on my commute, of it its lying heh |
| 21:19:09 | ]RowaN[ | i'll find out 2moro wont i |
| 21:20:12 | rasher | Why not just charge it? |
| 21:21:00 | rasher | Confused about this hebrew deal.. |
| 21:21:06 | ]RowaN[ | wont it wear the battery out if i unneccessarily charge it all the time? |
| 21:21:14 | iMark | no |
| 21:21:19 | iMark | its lithium |
| 21:21:26 | rasher | Letting it go completely down is way worse |
| 21:21:27 | iMark | more charges is actually good for it |
| 21:21:36 | ]RowaN[ | woo really, cool |
| 21:21:37 | ]RowaN[ | i love to learn! |
| 21:21:53 | rasher | There's something on wikipedia about this |
| 21:21:59 | ]RowaN[ | in that case i'll get a charger at work too |
| 21:22:02 | iMark | or that battery university site |
| 21:22:32 | ]RowaN[ | i trust you |
| 21:22:55 | rasher | It's Lithium polymer, isn't it? |
| 21:23:40 | rasher | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_polymer_battery |
| 21:24:13 | ]RowaN[ | guys i need a cable for my soundcard.. its got digital out, but its not optical.. Creative tell me i need a "mono-mini-jack to RCA" cable, but no where seems to know what that is |
| 21:24:40 | ]RowaN[ | trying to link it to my amp (which has optical and coaxial inputs) |
| 21:25:48 | rasher | What type is the coaxial input? |
| 21:27:27 | ]RowaN[ | hmm let me see |
| 21:27:50 | ]RowaN[ | it just says digital in |
| 21:29:10 | rasher | What type is the plug? |
| 21:29:21 | rasher | The physical plug |
| 21:29:54 | ]RowaN[ | circular? |
| 21:30:11 | ]RowaN[ | the plug socket u mean |
| 21:30:18 | rasher | Yes |
| 21:30:49 | rasher | That should be fairly easy to find |
| 21:31:03 | rasher | Assuming it doesn't require something of the wire |
| 21:31:04 | ]RowaN[ | shame on me |
| 21:31:32 | rasher | Well.. |
| 21:31:39 | ]RowaN[ | maplins say they dont have em |
| 21:31:41 | rasher | It's not the most common type of cable |
| 21:32:22 | ]RowaN[ | aparently its quite standard for pc soundcards to have this kind out digital out, so im surprised it wasnt easier to find a cable to buy |
| 21:33:39 | rasher | I guess most places that have lots of cables have them for "real" audio equipment |
| 21:34:26 | ]RowaN[ | so where should i look do you think? |
| 21:35:30 | | Join arkascha [0] (n=arkascha@xdsl-213-168-118-188.netcologne.de) |
| 21:38:17 | paugh | http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=1180&doy=6m9 |
| 21:38:42 | paugh | get that adaptor and use a standard cable with it |
| 21:39:15 | amiconn | iMark: While it's true that deep discharge isn't good for lithium batteries, keeping them at full charge isn't the best treatment either |
| 21:39:37 | ]RowaN[ | is that mono "mini" though? |
| 21:40:22 | paugh | yeah i think 3.5mm is also known as mini |
| 21:40:23 | ]RowaN[ | coz i think u can get 2.5mm as well as 3.5mm |
| 21:40:27 | ]RowaN[ | k |
| 21:40:37 | amiconn | rasher: What's the problem with hebrew (apart from the bug in splash() - that's a known problem) |
| 21:40:39 | amiconn | ? |
| 21:41:24 | * | amiconn received his 5th rockbox today :) |
| 21:41:32 | rasher | amiconn: Font problems |
| 21:41:39 | rasher | The hebrew fonts are fubar |
| 21:41:44 | rasher | or was |
| 21:41:47 | rasher | I thought I had fixed it |
| 21:41:59 | rasher | But now someone is telling me the problem is still there |
| 21:43:40 | rasher | Although I suspect he may be doing something wrong, because screenshots show characters that are no longer in the font |
| 21:47:14 | amiconn | Hmm, perhaps he didn't install everything, and still has the old fonts |
| 21:47:23 | rasher | That's my thinking |
| 21:47:33 | rasher | waiting for a reply |
| 21:47:45 | rasher | It *looks* right to me |
| 21:48:29 | iMark | ami- is a 1/3 to 1/2 discharge an ok time to charge it? |
| 21:48:47 | iMark | i *hate* the battery running out when im out of the house |
| 21:49:28 | | Join solex_ [0] (n=jrschulz@d095106.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 21:50:56 | rasher | Hrm, why are the Rockbox source headers not specifying GPL version? |
| 21:54:37 | | Quit Sucka`away ("a bird in the bush is worth two in your house") |
| 21:55:11 | rasher | Hebrew confirmed fixed. Excellent. |
| 21:59:47 | rasher | would be a shame to release with a full Hebrew translation, and no working fonts |
| 22:00 |
| 22:02:11 | | Join LinusN [0] (n=linus@labb.contactor.se) |
| 22:02:40 | amiconn | Hi again LinusN |
| 22:03:03 | LinusN | yo |
| 22:03:19 | rasher | Splitedit fix in the patch tracker |
| 22:03:25 | LinusN | rasher: saw that |
| 22:03:34 | LinusN | will check it out in a minute |
| 22:04:39 | amiconn | I've received my Ondio FM today :) |
| 22:04:40 | rasher | I'm still confused what the Hebrew fonts were up to before my fix |
| 22:05:01 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 22:05:02 | amiconn | I'm just removing a confusing option for it :) |
| 22:05:08 | | Join _DangerousDan [0] (n=Miranda@newtpulsifer.campus.luth.se) |
| 22:05:09 | | Quit solex (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:06:01 | LinusN | amiconn: nice |
| 22:06:27 | amiconn | Ondio has no s/pdif, but rockbox allows to select s/pdif as source... |
| 22:06:31 | ]RowaN[ | hmm americans have it good www.pvrblog.com/pvr/2005/09/how_to_get_paid.html |
| 22:06:44 | amiconn | s/source/recording source/ |
| 22:07:29 | amiconn | I've got the "all good" Ondio FM type (new MMC circuitry, philips tuner) |
| 22:07:48 | LinusN | amiconn: ebay? |
| 22:08:07 | amiconn | No, new, from a german webshop via amazon marketplace |
| 22:08:19 | amiconn | 't was shrink-wrapped... |
| 22:08:31 | LinusN | woo |
| 22:08:43 | amiconn | Already fully flashed ;) |
| 22:09:05 | LinusN | it's not every day you buy shrink-wrapped antiques :-) |
| 22:09:09 | rasher | bootbox? |
| 22:09:18 | amiconn | yup |
| 22:09:32 | amiconn | All my archoses are already bootboxed |
| 22:09:43 | amiconn | Running without any problems |
| 22:10:08 | LinusN | amiconn: that reminds me, how does a-b repeat work on the ondio? |
| 22:10:15 | amiconn | It doesn't |
| 22:10:17 | LinusN | ok |
| 22:10:37 | amiconn | The code isn't enabled, and we'll have a hard time to find a button to map it to |
| 22:10:43 | LinusN | ok then |
| 22:10:50 | amiconn | Perhaps my quickmenu idea will be helpful... |
| 22:10:54 | LinusN | quadruple-click? :-) |
| 22:11:05 | * | Lear wonders why make clean is so dog slow on cygwin... |
| 22:11:18 | LinusN | Lear: how about adding replaygain support for the archos? |
| 22:11:21 | amiconn | I already added double-click in one place for Ondio... |
| 22:11:31 | rasher | Lear: The answer to that question lies in the end of your sentence. |
| 22:11:35 | | Quit arkascha (Remote closed the connection) |
| 22:12:13 | Lear | Hm... Don't know, is it tricky to know exactly when the track change occurs? Because that's when the volume needs to change. |
| 22:12:41 | Lear | But only partial support is possible anyway (clip prevention isn't possible)... |
| 22:12:53 | LinusN | of course |
| 22:13:25 | LinusN | Lear: audio_set_track_changed_event() |
| 22:13:55 | LinusN | hmmm, maybe not |
| 22:13:57 | amiconn | LinusN: Not quite |
| 22:14:08 | Lear | Haven't really looked at it, but maybe I should. I do have a player lying around, so I can't blame it on not being able to test it. :) |
| 22:14:13 | amiconn | Currently it does only handle one registration |
| 22:14:19 | Lear | (player as in studio...) |
| 22:14:20 | LinusN | saw that |
| 22:14:23 | amiconn | ...which is used for the runtime db |
| 22:15:20 | LinusN | all these silly callbacks are annoying me |
| 22:15:22 | Lear | Still, a good start for where/how to do it. |
| 22:15:39 | | Join webguest09 [0] (n=5087f038@labb.contactor.se) |
| 22:15:50 | amiconn | LinusN: I don't see why callbacks are silly |
| 22:16:07 | LinusN | amiconn: how about calling system_reboot() instead of rolo_load() in panic.c? |
| 22:16:11 | webguest09 | wwhich is technically superior, flac or wavpack ? |
| 22:16:28 | rasher | I'd say wavpack. |
| 22:16:43 | Lear | Heh, is there even room for replaygain support on the archos? :) If the volume function takes a db value, that would save some code... |
| 22:16:45 | LinusN | the callbacks are silly because all they do is add a level of complexity |
| 22:16:52 | amiconn | In the case of runtime db on archos, directly calling the runtimedb functions from the playback code would mean direct calls from firmware layer to application - certainly not any better |
| 22:18:00 | LinusN | yes, that's why the playback code should be moved |
| 22:18:24 | LinusN | the callbacks are there only to solve that problem |
| 22:18:50 | amiconn | In fact they were there before I added runtimedb for archos |
| 22:18:53 | LinusN | if the playback code had been in apps, the callbacks would not be needed |
| 22:19:05 | LinusN | yes, they were added by the a-b repeat |
| 22:19:12 | amiconn | Otherwise I would had to add them |
| 22:19:24 | amiconn | No, they were added way before that |
| 22:19:44 | amiconn | ...by Slasheri, for better runtimedb support |
| 22:19:59 | LinusN | ah ok |
| 22:20:10 | rasher | Hrm.. Hebrew fonts are small... any objections to adding a larger one from my fonts-page? |
| 22:20:11 | amiconn | The first runtimedb code did a disk spinup after every track... |
| 22:20:23 | rasher | (suggested by the person who was testing my fix) |
| 22:20:29 | | Quit DangerousDan (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:20:29 | LinusN | rasher: go ahead, if we are allowed to distribute it |
| 22:20:46 | rasher | It's from the Debian/Ubuntu package of x.org |
| 22:20:47 | rasher | can't imagine we're not |
| 22:20:54 | rasher | I'll find the precise terms |
| 22:21:03 | amiconn | LinusN: I agree that system_reboot() would be way better than rolo_load() both in panicf() and uie() |
| 22:21:14 | amiconn | rolo_load() often doesn't work |
| 22:22:56 | amiconn | I wonder whether there is sufficient time left before release to fix the splash() issue with hebrew/arabic |
| 22:23:08 | LinusN | ah, bidi? |
| 22:23:10 | rasher | Cripes, /usr/share/doc/xfonts-75dpi/copyright is 75kb |
| 22:23:50 | amiconn | LinusN: Yes. The problem is that splash() lcd_putsxy()s each word in a line separately, so the word order is reversed for rtl languages |
| 22:24:03 | amiconn | ...because the rtl handling is done in the lcd driver |
| 22:24:11 | LinusN | aha |
| 22:24:18 | rasher | Ah, the font is one of those "Public domain font. Share and enjoy" ones. |
| 22:24:28 | LinusN | rasher: good |
| 22:24:31 | amiconn | splash() would need to lcd_putsxy() each line as a whole after line-wrapping |
| 22:25:09 | amiconn | ...and lshachar probably needs to adjust the hebrew translation back to normal, as it is now adjusted to this reversal |
| 22:25:27 | amiconn | This won't work well with varying font sizes anyway |
| 22:25:49 | rasher | I'm just going to go with the one he suggested: http://www.rasher.dk/rockbox/fonts/hebrew/8x13B-L8.png |
| 22:27:10 | LinusN | amiconn: speaking of font sizes, i think the xtal font has a too big line spacing |
| 22:27:38 | rasher | The nimbus font "fixes" this |
| 22:28:17 | rasher | Holy crap.. The tab completion of bash just scared me. |
| 22:28:37 | rasher | "cvs add <tab>" only cycles through files which are not known by cvs |
| 22:30:07 | rasher | By the way, I noticed this earlier.. why does the Rockbox source-header not specify a GPL version? |
| 22:30:49 | LinusN | i dunno |
| 22:31:40 | LinusN | we do refer to docs/COPYING |
| 22:31:43 | Bagder | let's blame Zagor ;-) |
| 22:31:45 | LinusN | which is v2 |
| 22:31:55 | rasher | Ah, true |
| 22:32:13 | LinusN | but we could of course be more explicit |
| 22:32:15 | Bagder | it should mention that in the boilerplate anyway |
| 22:32:40 | rasher | The license says that if you don't specify a version, you can use any version |
| 22:32:48 | rasher | Including v1 |
| 22:32:55 | rasher | I'm wondering what was wrong with that |
| 22:33:56 | Bagder | no idea |
| 22:35:11 | | Quit Zagor (Remote closed the connection) |
| 22:35:15 | amiconn | Bagder: I hope I've added the config magic for FAT date the right way... |
| 22:35:26 | Bagder | it looked fine |
| 22:35:44 | Bagder | it'll show rather quickly otherwise ;-) |
| 22:36:41 | amiconn | Hmm, 'make zip' still adds an empty codecs dir for archos... :( |
| 22:36:57 | Bagder | then something has changed |
| 22:38:18 | preglow | ugh |
| 22:38:28 | preglow | how'd you speech go? |
| 22:38:30 | LinusN | amiconn: no codecs/ in my zip |
| 22:38:34 | | Nick iMark is now known as iMark`away (n=Mark@cpc1-bele3-3-1-cust167.belf.cable.ntl.com) |
| 22:38:58 | LinusN | amiconn: oops, now i see it |
| 22:39:06 | * | LinusN cleans his glasses |
| 22:39:13 | Bagder | I see it too |
| 22:39:30 | Bagder | how silly |
| 22:39:36 | Bagder | I'll fix |
| 22:39:53 | amiconn | You could sell it as preparation for wav support ;) |
| 22:40:04 | LinusN | haha |
| 22:41:03 | LinusN | ok, so now we have 4 fonts that looks like chicago? |
| 22:41:23 | | Join hicks [0] (n=hicks@zeus.mups.co.uk) |
| 22:41:25 | webguest09 | will development of archos firmware end after release of v2.5 ? |
| 22:41:43 | Bagder | no |
| 22:41:44 | rasher | LinusN: yup |
| 22:41:55 | amiconn | webguest09: Surely not |
| 22:42:10 | LinusN | chicago-12, nimbus-12, nimbus-14, xtal-14 |
| 22:42:23 | LinusN | chicago-12 is lame, misses so many chars |
| 22:42:36 | rasher | I wanted to extend chicago to include 8859-15, but fontforge can't read it |
| 22:42:58 | Bagder | amiconn: I think I fixed it now |
| 22:43:40 | LinusN | it would be nice if someone could clean up in the rockbox font mess |
| 22:44:08 | rasher | Some of the fonts baffle me.. |
| 22:45:16 | rasher | Completely weird encodings |
| 22:46:18 | amiconn | Afaik all fonts should use ISO8859 encodings, except cyrillic which should use Win1251 |
| 22:47:05 | rasher | It would be nice to have a bdf editor |
| 22:47:25 | rasher | Fontforge is so much more, and bdf seems like a feature hidden underneath it all |
| 22:47:30 | LinusN | indeed |
| 22:47:45 | LinusN | fontforge is not good for pure bdf editing |
| 22:49:03 | | Nick iMark`away is now known as iMark (n=Mark@cpc1-bele3-3-1-cust167.belf.cable.ntl.com) |
| 22:49:14 | amiconn | LinusN: the system_reboot() for uie() is in the wrong place. |
| 22:49:20 | LinusN | oops |
| 22:49:32 | amiconn | The way it is now, it wouldn't work on the player |
| 22:49:46 | LinusN | doh |
| 22:51:11 | webguest09 | reasher: do you have a link to your fonts site for h140 please ? |
| 22:51:54 | rasher | webguest09: http://rasher.dk/rockbox/fonts/ |
| 22:52:03 | rasher | It's not for h140 |
| 22:52:12 | rasher | It's for all Rockbox platforms (except player) |
| 22:52:12 | | Quit webguest09 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 22:52:15 | amiconn | LinusN: There's a bug in the radio screen. |
| 22:52:20 | Lear | I've added lots of chars to nimbus-12, but I also changed some... (And a few need fixes. :)) |
| 22:52:42 | rasher | Ew.. I remember why I stopped using xmbdfed. |
| 22:53:12 | * | Lear used a text editor and a ruby script... |
| 22:53:32 | amiconn | If the status bar is on, and I enter the radio menu, then return, the status bar vanishes. It reappears after a button press that causes a status bar change |
| 22:53:34 | | Quit edx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:54:00 | amiconn | (e.g. changing volume, or starting a recording) |
| 22:54:00 | LinusN | amiconn: cool |
| 22:55:49 | amiconn | Your uie() change even caused the player build to turn red... |
| 22:59:56 | amiconn | Found the cause for the vanishing status bar. Look at lines 571..574 in radio.c ... |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:15 | LinusN | already fixed it |
| 23:04:00 | rasher | Geez. Why must every program capable of editing bdfs suck so. |
| 23:04:58 | rasher | Must be a curse. Remember never to add a bdf-editor plugin to Rockbox. |
| 23:06:10 | | Quit Lear ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5.1 [Firefox 1.0+/undefined]") |
| 23:08:04 | rasher | Ah, this one isn't so bad. Once you can get past it looking like 80s kitchen furniture (and the fact that it's tcl/tk): http://hea-www.harvard.edu/~fine/Tech/bdfedit.html |
| 23:10:08 | rasher | It assumes you're trying to make a 8859-1 font, but that's acceptable. |
| 23:15:06 | amiconn | The blue-violet part of the Ondio case changes colour over time, probably caused by sunlight |
| 23:15:25 | amiconn | It's quite blue at first, but turns more and more violet over time |
| 23:16:07 | | Join ghostiger [0] (i=debian-t@tor/session/x-1bb2c90cc50933ce) |
| 23:16:21 | | Join ghostiger2 [0] (i=debian-t@tor/session/x-3c36e3197dd19fa2) |
| 23:17:32 | | Join iamlost [0] (n=jbrown10@jma-box.student.umd.edu) |
| 23:18:22 | | Join mirak [0] (n=mirak@AAubervilliers-152-1-35-16.w83-114.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 23:19:05 | iamlost | mirak: hi |
| 23:19:51 | | Quit ghostiger (Client Quit) |
| 23:19:53 | | Join chenco [0] (n=ghostige@tor/session/x-971535161745f20e) |
| 23:23:02 | | Part iamlost |
| 23:23:03 | mirak | hi |
| 23:23:10 | amiconn | LinusN: Regarding my quickmenu idea: This would practically replace (or complement) two-button combos by two-button sequences, which has 2 advantages |
| 23:23:43 | amiconn | (1) There are no restrictions as with the combos (buttons that can't be detected together at the same time) |
| 23:23:55 | amiconn | (2) It allows for one-handed operation |
| 23:24:29 | rasher | By the way, there is a pretty serious problem with non-latin1 translations |
| 23:24:42 | amiconn | It will probably require a button beep with voice ui, to provide feedback for the first keypress |
| 23:24:57 | rasher | Using the default font gives gibberish for those translations |
| 23:25:09 | rasher | (quickscreens, etc) |
| 23:25:10 | LinusN | amiconn: i'd like to try it in action, do you have any test code? |
| 23:25:31 | amiconn | LinusN: Not yet... |
| 23:25:44 | LinusN | i gotta go to sleep |
| 23:25:51 | amiconn | rasher: Yes, unfortunately not easily solvable |
| 23:26:08 | amiconn | The same gibberish will appear if you try such a translation on the player |
| 23:26:13 | | Quit chenco ("Leaving") |
| 23:26:13 | | Quit ghostiger2 ("Leaving") |
| 23:26:19 | LinusN | nite all |
| 23:26:20 | rasher | I'm guessing unicode is the way to fix this |
| 23:26:25 | | Part LinusN |
| 23:26:26 | amiconn | LinusN: nite |
| 23:26:31 | rasher | With a "complete" default font |
| 23:26:31 | amiconn | rasher: Yes |
| 23:26:43 | | Join chenco [0] (n=ghostige@tor/session/x-9c013ebec1de0953) |
| 23:26:57 | | Join ghostiger [0] (n=ghostige@tor/session/x-22573bfeab5033d1) |
| 23:27:40 | rasher | Player will be left in the dark |
| 23:27:46 | rasher | Not much to do about that |
| 23:28:09 | | Quit _DangerousDan (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:28:16 | amiconn | The player should also get unicode support, of course with a limited character set |
| 23:28:25 | preglow | so, what bugs count as release stoppers? |
| 23:28:52 | amiconn | It may even be possible to support some non-8859-1 languages |
| 23:29:09 | amiconn | s/languages/scripts/ |
| 23:29:22 | amiconn | Imho cyrillic and greek are within reach |
| 23:31:14 | rasher | I thought the player didn't allow redifining the charset? |
| 23:31:31 | amiconn | Yes, but it allows defining up to 8 characters |
| 23:31:39 | amiconn | (only 4 with the old lcd) |
| 23:32:08 | rasher | preglow: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/ReleaseTodo .. all of the ones marked "investigating" or "not fixed" for now, I think |
| 23:32:12 | amiconn | It helps here that the player lcd does only show 22 characters at once |
| 23:32:31 | rasher | True, but that's still 14 short - how would that work? |
| 23:32:35 | | Join DangerousDan [0] (n=Miranda@newtpulsifer.campus.luth.se) |
| 23:32:55 | preglow | hmm |
| 23:32:57 | preglow | that's quite a lot |
| 23:33:04 | amiconn | So if we have a script that needs only a certain percentage of redefined characters, this will hopefully be sufficient |
| 23:33:36 | amiconn | E.g. cyrillic uses many letters that look equivalent to latin letters |
| 23:33:37 | | Join Mxm`Pas`Bien [0] (n=flemmard@fbx.flemmard.net) |
| 23:33:41 | rasher | Ah, like that |
| 23:33:58 | amiconn | The player code already does dynamic reuse of the 8 definable characters |
| 23:34:17 | rasher | I'm thinking some of those bugs are less critical (at least the "sometimes shuffle may play the same song more than once") |
| 23:34:24 | preglow | heh |
| 23:34:52 | amiconn | That means, as long as the current display content needs at max. 8 redefinable characters, it will look perfect |
| 23:34:54 | preglow | is it easily reproducible? |
| 23:35:03 | rasher | preglow: Don't think so |
| 23:35:29 | amiconn | With more alien characters, the code would resort to using replacement characters for some of them |
| 23:35:51 | rasher | Hrm, cyrillic has "A E K M H O P C T Y B" |
| 23:36:13 | rasher | and, interestingly, 4 |
| 23:36:21 | rasher | depending on how the player shows that |
| 23:36:28 | amiconn | The replacements will be sorted by "ugliness", i.e. the most ugly replacements will be used last (hopefully practically never) |
| 23:36:54 | amiconn | I alraedy worked out a complete replacement table with a russian user |
| 23:37:19 | rasher | Ah, excellent. |
| 23:37:27 | amiconn | rasher: http://www.rockbox.org/docs/rocklatin.html |
| 23:37:57 | rasher | All these hidden pages |
| 23:38:29 | amiconn | It's linked from the DocsIndex page... |
| 23:38:50 | amiconn | What more direct link did you expect? |
| 23:39:15 | amiconn | (It's under Rockbox Design Docs) |
| 23:39:39 | rasher | Nothing specific, it just reminded me |
| 23:39:57 | rasher | that the rockbox website has a lot of semi-hidden pages |
| 23:40:00 | rasher | and duplicated pages |
| 23:40:11 | amiconn | Grr, I can't find the default wps in the code... |
| 23:40:59 | rasher | wps-display.c |
| 23:41:07 | rasher | line 1560 ish |
| 23:41:16 | amiconn | tnx. |
| 23:41:26 | amiconn | Didn't expect this to be within a function... |
| 23:41:51 | rasher | Somewhat obscure place |
| 23:41:51 | | Quit TCK (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 23:43:23 | rasher | http://www.misticriver.net/boards/showthread.php?t=28405 gotta love the optimism |
| 23:44:02 | * | amiconn did his first wps change in more than 18 months... |
| 23:46:19 | rasher | Hm, would be nice if "codec failure" contained a error return value |
| 23:46:35 | preglow | and a message, heh |
| 23:47:13 | preglow | i daresay we've got enough code space left for that kind of user friendlyness on iriver |
| 23:47:44 | preglow | the codec plugins are littered with errormessages that have been commented out |
| 23:48:13 | rasher | They should just use the standard rockbox way of passing errors |
| 23:48:23 | preglow | which is? |
| 23:48:47 | rasher | a negative int, and if the error comes from another function, add that times 10 |
| 23:48:50 | rasher | ehm |
| 23:49:14 | rasher | res = somefunction(); if (res < 10) return res * 10 - 3; |
| 23:49:16 | preglow | yes, but that's a far cry from anything the user might understand |
| 23:49:21 | rasher | Sure |
| 23:49:31 | rasher | < 0, of coures |
| 23:50:05 | amiconn | Common errors should be reported to the user in cleartext, localised |
| 23:50:06 | preglow | it would be nice to avoid posts like 'what does codec failure: -50 mean?#?#??#' when the message could have been 'codec failure: chained streams not yet supported' |
| 23:50:24 | amiconn | This is done in a number of places on archos too |
| 23:50:47 | preglow | amiconn: sure, but passing temporary messages as english shouldn't be too nasty |
| 23:51:02 | preglow | sane people use english lang file anyway :] |
| 23:51:03 | | Quit Maxime (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 23:51:04 | amiconn | Obscure errors that shouldn't happen during normal operations can be reported as short english text along with the error value |
| 23:51:32 | amiconn | preglow: The passing should be done the standard rockbox way |
| 23:51:50 | amiconn | The ui thread is responsible for displaying the cleartext messages |
| 23:51:54 | preglow | amiconn: would be nice, yes, but then it'd be pretty much up to the callee to decide what it means, yes? |
| 23:52:07 | preglow | and that's a pretty nasty place to put codec specific messages |
| 23:52:44 | amiconn | What codec specific messages do you want to throw at users??? |
| 23:52:47 | preglow | but anywho, permanent error messages should of course be localised anyhow |
| 23:52:53 | preglow | somehow, i means |
| 23:52:59 | preglow | amiconn: like the example above |
| 23:53:06 | preglow | with the chained ogg streams |
| 23:53:39 | preglow | amiconn: or perhaps 'he aac profile not supported' |
| 23:53:57 | amiconn | Either a codec doesn't manage to decode some stream, the a general error message should be sufficient, perhaps accompanied with the error code to give the devs a clue what's going on |
| 23:54:12 | amiconn | Everything else would be too techy for the average user |
| 23:54:40 | preglow | aight |
| 23:54:43 | amiconn | E.g. the jpeg viewer just displays "unsupported -4" if it encounters a progressive file |
| 23:54:43 | iMark | i recon the released builds should have some kind of logging support |
| 23:55:00 | preglow | i dont |
| 23:55:07 | amiconn | ..and that string isn't localised just because it's not yet possible to localise plugins |
| 23:55:11 | iMark | why not? |
| 23:55:40 | preglow | because error messages should tell the user all he needs to knwo |
| 23:55:42 | preglow | know |
| 23:55:56 | iMark | yeah, but when the developer needs info on a random crashbug |
| 23:55:56 | preglow | and log buffer takes space that should be used for music |
| 23:56:03 | iMark | true... |
| 23:56:12 | preglow | iMark: if it's crashed, you can't view the log buffer anyway |
| 23:56:21 | iMark | :/ |
| 23:56:39 | preglow | iMark: and if you're suggesting we spin up the disk to write every log line, you're clearly had too much vokdka today :P |
| 23:56:52 | amiconn | preglow: Yeah, an average user probably won't have a bdm wiggler... ;) |
| 23:57:25 | preglow | amiconn: so they say |
| 23:57:26 | iMark | they should put the bdm wiggler in the board next to the firewire800 port and wifi chip :P |
| 23:57:56 | preglow | iMark: of course, there's a very lucrative modding business just waiting to get started here |
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