#rockbox 2005-09-07

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#rockbox log for 2005-09-07

00:00:26	iMark	maybe a gigabit ethernet port in place of the firewire
00:00:51	preglow	but blah, i need to get this macsr stuff commited before i vanish for a while
00:05:04	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:05:32	preglow	this dsp in codec thread nastiness really destroyed the elegance of the macsr thread context
00:09:51		Nick iMark is now known as iMark`away (n=Mark@cpc1-bele3-3-1-cust167.belf.cable.ntl.com)
00:11:57		Quit Wett (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:14:35		Nick paugh is now known as AliasCoffee (n=pete@2001:5c0:8fff:ffff:8000:0:3e03:6822)
00:16:52		Join midk [0] (n=Zakk@c66-235-14-120.sea2.cablespeed.com)
00:18:16		Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection)
00:19:23		Join Wett [0] (i=Wett@AMontpellier-251-1-54-189.w81-251.abo.wanadoo.fr)
00:21:36	rasher	Anyone know how clever the rockbox firmware update is? How good is it at detecting that the file is damaged?
00:24:26	]RowaN[	h10 is up to 20gigs?
00:24:30	]RowaN[	iriver.com says 6 gigs
00:24:36	]RowaN[	but ... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5806449433
00:25:03		Quit mirak ("Leaving")
00:25:31	amiconn	Hrmpf. H140 just froze
00:34:07		Join edx [0] (i=edx@p54A84C34.dip.t-dialin.net)
00:34:22		Quit Moos (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-")
00:39:02		Quit DangerousDan ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
00:40:14	rasher	The lacking section of the changelog annoys me
00:43:02		Join DangerousDan [0] (n=Miranda@newtpulsifer.campus.luth.se)
00:43:57		Quit DangerousDan (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:45:30		Join TCK [0] (i=TCK@85-210-18-19.dsl.pipex.com)
00:52:13		Join stripwax_ [0] (n=stripwax@i-83-67-214-206.freedom2surf.net)
00:52:16	stripwax_	ello
00:52:39	rasher	Evening
00:53:38	stripwax_	So, here's a question about playing a track when 'Move To Next Folder' is enabled. Am I right in thinking that selecting a given track creates a dynamic playlist consisting of all the tracks in that folder (not just the one you select)?
00:54:17	rasher	I believe so, yes
00:54:27	amiconn	stripwax_: yes, exactly
00:54:29	rasher	you could always "view current playlist"
00:54:38	rasher	to check what's in there
00:54:55	rasher	What's a nice way to get a wav sine wave?
00:56:13	rasher	Maybe audacity will help me.
00:56:50	rasher	It would.
00:57:33	stripwax_	amiconn - hm. So presumably when it gets to the end of the current playlist, it knows (somehow) that it should replace the dynamic playlist with all of the tracks from the next folder
00:57:36	stripwax_	How does it know?
00:57:55	stripwax_	(For example, it doesn't do this if I'm building a playlist one file at a time)
00:59:17	preglow	rasher: what you need that for?
00:59:36	rasher	Just to have something that's a constant volume
00:59:55	rasher	Going to try and see if I can get a volume-level graph of rockbox/iriver
01:00
01:00:00	preglow	arghhhh
01:00:22	amiconn	rasher: Volume-level graph?
01:00:40	stripwax_	Ok, I'll stop beating around the bush; my question is really, if Move To Next Folder is enabled, why can't it do the same thing if we try and skip BACK a track from the FIRST track in the playlist.
01:00:44	preglow	i'll have to make coldfire_set_macsr use "r" as a constraint if i want it to be able to take variables as parameters as well
01:00:45	amiconn	The volume mapping is dB-linear
01:00:59	preglow	but then every coldfire_set_macsr will be two instructions instead of one, even when not needed
01:01:03	rasher	amiconn: I'd like to relate it to the way the iriver firmware does it
01:01:16	rasher	so I can see "25 in iriver = X in rockbox"
01:01:24	*	amiconn can't imagine what that should be good for
01:01:27	stripwax_	rasher - makes sense to me (as an ex iriver firmware user)
01:02:27	preglow	oh well, i guess that isn't the end of the world
01:03:02	stripwax_	amiconn - two reasons (one good one). So we can help ex iriver firmware users get to grips with rockbox. And potentially also so we can say 'rockbox is louder than iriver firmware' or 'rockbox is quieter than iriver firmware' at max volume levels (min too, i guess)
01:03:27	rasher	I'm pretty sure iriver is louder
01:03:30	amiconn	Well, zero is real zero in rockbox
01:03:57	amiconn	Max volume is the maximum possible without clipping risk
01:03:58	rasher	now how to measure this without having any measuring equipment..
01:03:59	stripwax_	amiconn - right but is '1' louder or quieter than iriver '1' ?
01:04:19	stripwax_	rasher - optical out surely
01:04:20	amiconn	It's certainly quieter since it is much more fine-grained
01:04:36	rasher	amiconn: at max volume.
01:04:45		Quit chenco ("Leaving")
01:04:45		Quit ghostiger ("Leaving")
01:04:54	stripwax_	(or wait- does optical out bypass all volume changes?)
01:05:05	rasher	argh
01:05:40	preglow	stripwax_: yes, it does
01:05:42	rasher	Does the "Replay Gain > Prevent clipping" setting affect wav playback?
01:05:49	preglow	rockbox uses the codeec chip volume registers
01:05:58	stripwax_	rasher - sample line out into line in on your soundcard then, and don't change any of your soundcard settings in between
01:05:59	rasher	I don't have any equipment with optical in anyway.
01:06:04	preglow	no soft volume (yet)
01:06:42		Quit ender` (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
01:08:12	rasher	huh.. this wav won't play.
01:08:45	rasher	sine440hz.wav: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, mono 44000 Hz, says `file`
01:08:49	rasher	Why wouldn't it play?
01:09:24	stripwax_	does RockBox support mono wavs?
01:09:36	rasher	Ah
01:09:38	rasher	maybe not
01:10:57	rasher	Now how to make audacity create a stereo file
01:12:19	preglow	with the utmost difficulty
01:12:23	preglow	rubbish program
01:12:30	rasher	Sure looks like it.
01:12:32	stripwax_	Google's probably quicker.... http://www.rme-audio.com/english/download/audtest.htm
01:12:47	preglow	i can make you a nice stereo wav if you give me specs
01:13:20	rasher	I'm not sure specs are relevant
01:13:29	amiconn	Audacity surely isn't rubbish
01:13:31		Join zeekoe [0] (n=zeekoe@zeekoe.kabel.utwente.nl)
01:13:36	preglow	amiconn: oh, but it is
01:13:43	stripwax_	rasher - check the link above and download "0_16.wav: Extreme pure sine (0.001% THD+N) with maximum level. Peak level meters must show exactly 0 dBFS, the corresponding RMS-value is exactly -3 dBFS."
01:14:01	rasher	stripwax_: yeah, I guess that'll do - thanks
01:14:16	zeekoe	generating stereo wavs with audacity is easy
01:14:19	rasher	I wonder how long it is though
01:14:27		Quit _aLF ("Leaving")
01:14:34	rasher	zeekoe: do tell
01:14:35	zeekoe	just add a track, right click, make one of them left and the other one right
01:14:37	preglow	rasher: like i said, just give me desired frequency, amplitude and length, and i'll make you one
01:14:41	midk	zeekoe?
01:14:43	midk	wow.
01:14:46	zeekoe	:P
01:14:47	*	midk stares
01:14:55	zeekoe	yeah, i'm still alive :-P
01:15:05	rasher	preglow: seems zeekoe came to the rescue
01:15:07	midk	omfg.. you weren't hit by a car yet or anything? :)
01:15:10	preglow	tada
01:15:13	stripwax_	rasher - 224KB wav.
01:15:17	zeekoe	nah, just been busy
01:15:27	zeekoe	or sleeping
01:15:44	rasher	stripwax_: that's nt very long.. I'll be fidgetting around and it'll be stopped or restarted and things will be horribly skewed
01:15:47	midk	aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAh.
01:16:19	stripwax_	rasher - sorry, 224KB zip, 1MB wav. but yeah, true
01:16:44	rasher	Actually. "Project > Add stereo track", "Generate > Tone"
01:16:45	rasher	that works
01:16:53	zeekoe	ah well
01:16:57	zeekoe	it's been a while
01:17:05	zeekoe	don't have it on my linux install yet
01:17:20	rasher	I guess what you said would've worked as well
01:17:22	midk	booooooo\
01:18:11	zeekoe	you can make one 100 Hz track and another 101 Hz
01:18:13	zeekoe	it's fun
01:18:21	stripwax_	Hm, wonder what RockBox does if presented with an 8-channel .wav file..
01:18:22	rasher	Eeew
01:18:40	zeekoe	stripwax_, just read through the source...
01:18:52	stripwax_	'just'?
01:18:57	zeekoe	:)
01:19:01	rasher	The wav codec is lacking.
01:19:10	zeekoe	huh?
01:19:11	zeekoe	nah
01:19:13	stripwax_	no biggie, I wouldn't use wavs anyway
01:19:31	*	preglow cries when he sees flac performance
01:19:33	zeekoe	i remember replying to an email with something about wavs
01:19:42	rasher	There's a patch that adds all sorts of stuff
01:20:06	*	zeekoe has got audacity now...
01:21:28	zeekoe	1245261proper WAV file handling :
01:21:28	zeekoe	This patch adds:
01:21:28	zeekoe	- correct parsing of WAV header, even if it's not the
01:21:28	DBUG	Enqueued KICK zeekoe
01:21:28	zeekoe	canonic 44-byte header
01:21:28	zeekoe	- handling of WAV files other than 44.1/16bits/stereo
01:21:51	rasher	wow, 100 101hz is upsetting.
01:22:03	rasher	100PLUS101
01:23:22	zeekoe	one left, the other one right
01:23:24	stripwax_	zeekoe - including 8 channel? ;-)
01:23:26	zeekoe	that's cool
01:23:48	preglow	seems the macsr save fixed the vorbis problem
01:23:51	zeekoe	stripwax_, what do you think?
01:23:59	stripwax_	;-)
01:24:05	rasher	Okay, I'm no longer convinced iriver is louder than Rockbox.
01:24:08	stripwax_	what's the vorbis problem
01:24:09	rasher	My poor ears.
01:25:51	preglow	haha
01:26:02	preglow	it would have surprised me considerably if iriver was louder than rockbox
01:26:47	rasher	I think it does allow for louder music if the bass is turned up
01:27:09	preglow	yes, maybe, but it will surely clip if it is so
01:27:16	stripwax_	preglow - or rather, what was the vorbis problem?
01:27:35	preglow	stripwax_: just some weird behaviour that dictatet the placement of a couple of emac init functions
01:28:06	preglow	amiconn: so, you reckon this counts as a bugfix?
01:28:43	stripwax_	oh ok. so nothing that actually affects anything, just the structure of the code
01:28:49	preglow	stripwax_: yeah
01:29:05	rasher	Hrm. I've no idea how to measure the volume..
01:29:23	preglow	rasher: i can do a couple of quick measurements
01:29:30	preglow	i've got stuff hooked up anyway
01:29:53	zeekoe	stripwax_: from quicly reading the source of the patch, it looks like 8 channel wavs don't generate an error. there are some (channels ==2) things inside, though so it probably won't play that well
01:30:09	rasher	Just do something like measure 5,10,15,20,25,30,35,40 with iriver
01:32:14	preglow	rasher: k, doing now
01:32:23	stripwax_	hm. am I right in thinking both headphone out and line out volume are controlled by the codec chip? why isn't line out fixed volume? apologies if that's a REALLY dumb question
01:32:43	rasher	stripwax_: You're right. And "it just isn't."
01:32:49	preglow	man, it feels awkward using the iriver firmware
01:33:15	preglow	stripwax_: why, because i for one happen to like it responding to volume
01:33:26	preglow	and i think i'm not alone
01:34:37	stripwax_	preglow - any advantage to using line-out vs headphone-out if you need volume control?
01:35:43	stripwax_	(hm, tho I guess it saves a lot of power if we're only listening on headphones). are lineout and headphone out driven at the same time?
01:35:45	preglow	i just don't see a reason for not having the option of keeping it volume controlled
01:35:54	preglow	yes, they are
01:35:55	rasher	If I had to guess, I would have expected line out to be a fixed-volume without-effects output
01:36:00		Quit midk (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:36:07		Join midk [0] (n=Zakk@c66-235-14-120.sea2.cablespeed.com)
01:36:11	rasher	But I'm not that bothered.
01:36:23	rasher	not at all, really
01:36:25	stripwax_	rasher - it's what I would have guessed to.
01:36:52	preglow	rasher: they seem to be the exact same volume
01:37:05	preglow	why would you expect that?
01:37:37	rasher	preglow: What is the same volume?
01:37:51	stripwax_	preglow/rasher - iriver vs rockbox?
01:37:59	stripwax_	or lineout vs headphone?
01:38:31	preglow	rasher: looking at the rest of them now
01:38:31		Join zeekoe_ [0] (n=zeekoe@zeekoe.kabel.utwente.nl)
01:38:35		Quit zeekoe (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:38:35	preglow	rasher: was talking about iriver vs rockbox
01:39:28	rasher	Yeah, I'm most interested in the volume-distribution in iriver now
01:39:43	rasher	just because, I guess
01:39:53	stripwax_	I would have guessed lineout is fixed volume so I could plug it into my amp and control the volume using the amp's volume control in exactly the same way I control the volume of my CD player. Having said that, my CD player also has a (totally redundant, imo) volume adjustment feature. so what do I know ;-)
01:40:29	rasher	Yes. I expect the line-out to act like a "dumb" output device
01:40:39	preglow	rasher: i'll spam you the db measurements in query
01:40:58	rasher	if freenode will let you
01:41:13	preglow	let's see
01:41:14	preglow	ahh
01:41:17	preglow	did you get it?
01:41:28	rasher	Didnt' get anything
01:41:31	preglow	argh
01:41:33	preglow	gimme a sec
01:41:37	preglow	trying again
01:42:57		Quit ]RowaN[ ()
01:45:28	preglow	amiconn: looks like iriver too uses something db-linear-ish
01:45:54	rasher	yeah, it's not very interesting
01:46:28	rasher	so rockbox 50 ~ iriver 20, right?
01:48:26	preglow	mno
01:48:31	preglow	rodckbox 50 ~ iriver 5
01:48:41	rasher	whatwhatwhat
01:49:26	rasher	how does that work then?
01:49:48	preglow	what iriver did was pretty sensible, if you ask me
01:49:58	preglow	everything below 40 is pretty useless in the rockbox scale
01:50:08	preglow	so they compressed that entire area to under 5
01:50:40	stripwax_	I always thought iriver 20 was much louder than rockbox 50. now I know why.
01:50:41	rasher	Ah, so there's a larger dip at the lower end than what I thought
01:50:59	preglow	they've got a db linear scale at the top end
01:51:06	preglow	and a db log scale at the lower end
01:51:12	preglow	we've got a db linear scale the entire way
01:51:32	rasher	Sounds reasonable of them
01:52:04	preglow	yes, i think it's more sensible myself, a db linear scale is pretty nice and uniform, but it's not the way the ear works
01:52:52	stripwax_	preglow - where do the two scales join up? is it linear from 5-40 and log from 1-5?
01:53:07	preglow	kind of hard to tell, i just did a pretty coarse measurement
01:53:14	preglow	stripwax_: from 0 to 40, steps of five
01:53:22	preglow	stripwax_: first irregularity i saw was at 5
01:53:33	preglow	linear down to 10, in other words
01:53:59	preglow	hmm, might seem it tends a bit more downward at 10 as well, btw
01:54:10	Ctcp	Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
01:54:10	*	preglow does a graph
01:54:39	rasher	Hard to tell from the points you gave me
01:55:33	rasher	can't see it for 10, at least
01:59:35	preglow	if i fit a curve through the data, it starts going nonlinear slightly before 10
02:00
02:00:30	preglow	but who knows, we don't need to know exactly what they do anyway
02:00:39	preglow	at least we know they're not db linear
02:01:33	rasher	'deed
02:03:10	preglow	if you ask me, the usable rockbox range is 100 to 60
02:03:16	preglow	the rest should be compressed to a smaller scale
02:05:08	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:06:17	preglow	but ok, this macsr business seems to work, think i'll commit it
02:07:39	rasher	My kingdom for a real BTS
02:08:29	preglow	bts?
02:08:35	rasher	bug tracking system
02:08:38	preglow	ahh
02:08:40	rasher	Sourceforge is a joke
02:08:45	preglow	yes, yes it is
02:09:01	preglow	a bad one at that
02:09:13	stripwax_	gnight all
02:09:16		Part stripwax_
02:10:05	rasher	Not too keen on bojira either, but it is pretty widely used - maybe it's good enough afterall
02:10:18	zeekoe_	night
02:10:25		Quit zeekoe_ ("Leaving")
02:12:58	preglow	hahah
02:13:05	rasher	?
02:13:10	preglow	bojira <-
02:13:23	rasher	Ah yes
02:13:24	preglow	took me a couple of secs before i caught on, hehe
02:13:34	rasher	Picked that up somewhere
02:15:46	*	rasher sets up a local copy of bugzilla
02:16:01	preglow	hmm
02:16:19	preglow	is it just me, or is max firmware size for some archoses exceeded again?
02:16:33	preglow	my test build failed gloriously
02:17:28	rasher	Doesn't look like it from the build table
02:17:52	preglow	error: max firmware size is 200KB!
02:17:52	preglow	make[1]: *** [/home/thomj/rockbox-devel/build/ajbrec.ajz] Error 255
02:17:56	preglow	looks like it from here :/
02:18:38	rasher	Oh right, which gcc version are you using?
02:18:53	preglow	3.3.6
02:19:02	rasher	Ah.. dunno then
02:19:17	preglow	i don't think any of my changes are compiled for archos
02:19:19	preglow	so can't be that
02:19:45	rasher	Wow, that was easy.. "apt-get install bugzilla", answer a couple of questions, reload mysql, presto, instant bojira
02:20:40		Quit hicks (Remote closed the connection)
02:20:58	preglow	might be the devel build option that tipped it
02:21:23	preglow	looks like i didnt get that fm recorder anyway, so i'm probably going to stay archos agnostic
02:24:04	preglow	i dont know if this even counts as a bugfix, but amiconn seemed to want me to commit it, so here we go
02:24:09		Quit AliasCoffee ("Leaving")
02:24:32	rasher	now if I had a copy of the sourceforge xml export thing, I could have a go at creating an import script
02:25:00	preglow	isn't that in cvs?
02:25:44	rasher	Not that I know of
02:25:50	rasher	Where would it be?
02:26:20	preglow	shrug
02:26:49	rasher	I very much doubt it
02:27:48	preglow	oh well, you'll just have to bug bagder
02:27:49	rasher	It's this huge gob of xml that includes every bit of info in the sourceforge trackers
02:28:11	rasher	Good news is that bugzilla includes an import script
02:28:26	rasher	bad news is that it expects the input to be in bugzilla-xml-bug format
02:29:08	preglow	doesn't sound like too big a job for a perl script
02:29:14	preglow	if they're both valid xml
02:29:15	rasher	Indeed not
02:29:21	rasher	I'd hope they are
02:33:57	*	preglow sighs, gets a barf bag and enters apps/codecs/libFLAC
02:34:57	rasher	happy happy cplusplus land
02:40:39	preglow	seems like he just ran some evil c++ to c converter on a c++ project
02:41:41	rasher	I remember it being horrible just looking at it.
02:41:57	rasher	And I wasn't even trying to understand what it was doing
02:42:09	preglow	it's that kind of source code
02:43:10	preglow	50% of it is bullshit intended to make it look oo like
02:44:14	coob	yar libflac is ick
02:44:24		Quit massoud (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:45:05	preglow	coob: word
02:45:20	preglow	ok, latest build didn't break, just tell me if something soundwise isn't like it used to be
02:45:52	coob	i hate make oo in c :/
02:45:56	coob	um
02:45:59	coob	s/make/fake/
02:46:18	rasher	Hm, bugzilla will need some tweaking to fit Rockbox.. "Platform: DEC, HP, Macintosh, ..."
02:46:37	preglow	rasher: i'd expect that is easily tweakable
02:46:47	rasher	Yeah, just need to find out WHERE
02:46:50	rasher	It's useful
02:46:52	preglow	coob: should be made a punishable offense
02:47:00	rasher	assuming we can make it say "Player" "OndioFM" etc
02:47:20	preglow	coob: oo in c is ok, but just pretending you have c++ is not
02:48:15	coob	hehe
02:48:22	*	coob from the stone age
02:48:24	coob	i hate oo
02:48:36	preglow	haha
02:48:43	preglow	i think oo is completely ok
02:48:52	preglow	got used to it a couple of years back
02:49:17		Quit Wett ("Visitez www.coder-studio.com !")
02:52:18	preglow	* class FLAC__SeekableStreamDecoder : public FLAC__StreamDecoder
02:52:23	preglow	...............
02:54:52	rasher	Sick.
02:56:06	preglow	include/FLAC/seekable_stream_decoder.h: struct FLAC__SeekableStreamDecoderPrivate private_; / avoid the C++ keyword 'private' */
02:56:09	preglow	i have seen enough
02:56:28	preglow	the jury may retire
02:57:55	rasher	Nasty, the OS list is hardcoded into enter_bug.cgi
02:58:17	rasher	Oh well
02:58:36	rasher	Or not.
02:59:17	coob	use flyspray instead :D
02:59:29	coob	slim bugzilla
02:59:38	coob	it's not amazing, needs tweaking, but does the job.
02:59:42	coob	php
03:00
03:00:11	preglow	i don't think anyone's ever been caught calling bugzilla 'amazing' anyway
03:00:44	rasher	If it's too slim, we may as well just stay with SF
03:01:47	rasher	Although I have no real idea of which features are missing
03:01:52	rasher	apart from, you know, speed and stability
03:03:14	rasher	coob: where's your installation hiding?
03:03:41	preglow	there
03:03:46	preglow	gave libflac a nice little boost, i did
03:03:58	rasher	Does it actually play now?
03:04:07	preglow	went from 50% boost rate to 25�
03:04:20	coob	rasher: flyspray? http://ipodlinux.org/requests
03:04:23	rasher	iirc,, some files wouldn't even play realtime
03:04:35	rasher	Warning: mysql_connect(): Access denied for user 'ipod_req'@'70.85.83.120' (using password: YES) in
03:04:36	rasher	cute
03:04:36	preglow	rasher: you know of anyone that posted such files?
03:04:44	coob	woo
03:04:45	rasher	No.. :-\
03:04:52	coob	our admins are lazy :/
03:05:32	*	rasher looks at flyspray's flyspray
03:05:43	rasher	how meta
03:05:44	coob	well, that was embarrasing.
03:06:08	*	coob makes note to self to kick lazy admins
03:07:04	preglow	hehe
03:07:16	rasher	does flyspray have a notion of duplicates?
03:07:19	preglow	rasher: you think codec opts count as bugfixes? :P
03:07:53	rasher	Well, considering that it wasn't even playing realtime for some files, I'm inclined to say yes, but I'm hardly an authority
03:08:02	coob	rasher: i just close entries as duplicates
03:08:04	preglow	i'll wait until tomorrow anyway
03:08:15	rasher	Probably a good idea
03:08:40	preglow	i'll be leaving for a couple of days tomorrow, but i think i'll have time to confer with the big boys before i leave
03:09:01	rasher	coob: Hmm.. I'd like to be able to link them like bugzilla does.. at least for Rockbox there are/were several items with a bunc of discussion on each
03:09:19	rasher	if course if you catch them at once it's no problem
03:10:14	rasher	preglow: I'd think there's a bit more room for letting non-bugfixes get through in strictly iriver areas
03:10:34	rasher	it's not like there'll be any archos regressions
03:10:35	preglow	me too, just wanna have it verified to avoid embarassments
03:10:42	rasher	of course
03:11:09	preglow	and like you said, flac not bloody playing some files is most definitely a bug
03:11:22	rasher	I'm absolutely terrified of committing anything but language updates without checking it
03:12:15	rasher	I have this fat driver fix sitting
03:12:23	rasher	but noone has had time to look at it :-\
03:12:47	preglow	what fix?
03:13:11	rasher	Add a check to add_dir_entry to check for entries ending in "."
03:13:16	rasher	(which is not allowed)
03:13:24	rasher	Apart from '.' and '..' of course.
03:13:37	rasher	And potentially other checks can be added in the same place
03:13:50	preglow	sounds pretty sane
03:13:52	preglow	you need to nag more :)
03:14:05	rasher	Guess I do
03:14:14	rasher	There's even a bug report about it
03:14:16	preglow	and thusly commenced the brushing of the teeth
03:18:53	preglow	anywho
03:19:02	rasher	It's the only open bug under "drivers"
03:19:11	preglow	with all this new iram, the future should be nice for the codecs
03:19:21	rasher	How much did you get?
03:19:30	coob	do you guys stick memcpy in iram?
03:20:18	preglow	coob: afaik,yes
03:20:34	preglow	coob: that is, i expect it will end up there, once amiconn writes an asm optimised version
03:20:40	preglow	i think we've got asm memset in iram
03:20:53	coob	any others?
03:21:17	rasher	coob: you'll be amused to find that I've ported matrix from podzilla to rockbox
03:21:29	rasher	Has a bug though :(
03:21:41	coob	haha noway
03:21:55	coob	that was like the second bit of c i wrote , it's horrid :)
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03:22:25	rasher	Haven't touched a much of it
03:22:46	rasher	Simplified the init a great deal (not using alloc)
03:22:46	coob	oh well, i did nick your cube :)
03:23:04	rasher	And rewrote the blit_char of course
03:23:17	coob	ah yes, i only used alloc because we have to deal with different screen sizes dynamically (not as a build option)
03:23:25	rasher	It needs greyscale support badly though
03:23:38	preglow	coob: not too much that i know of, lots of codec data in iram, suspect i'll stuff some codec code there as well soon
03:23:46	rasher	rasher.dk/rockbox/matrix.png">http://www.rasher.dk/rockbox/matrix.png is not so hot
03:24:28	preglow	rasher: bug a dev tomorrow, would be a nice bug to close before release
03:24:45	rasher	Yes, indeed
03:24:54	rasher	I'm amazed noone has touched it
03:24:59	rasher	the fix is really simple
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03:25:05	preglow	mysethink the patch looks fine and dandy, muself
03:25:10	preglow	take 2:
03:25:16	preglow	think the patch looks fine and dandy, myself
03:25:28	rasher	I wonder if amiconn's alive and wake
03:25:41	coob	did you change the font?
03:25:43	preglow	i'd guess no on the grounds of him having a job
03:26:01	rasher	coob: Yeah - only had 1bit display at the time
03:26:14	rasher	Nicked the font from cmatrix
03:26:18	coob	hehe
03:26:46	rasher	Plus, I figured it'd be easier than convert from whatever image format you were using
03:26:56	preglow	rasher: i'd probably just commit this, can't see how it can go wrong
03:27:10	preglow	it's a small piece to revert in the off chance of it being borked anyway
03:27:15	rasher	true
03:27:20	ze	cool somebody's started writing a linux usb-storage driver for linux and gotten so far as reading data from the disk and some elements of filesystem support
03:27:23	ze	err
03:27:32	ze	cool somebody's started writing a linux usb-storage driver for the RIO KARMA and gotten so far as reading data from the disk and some elements of filesystem support
03:27:35	ze	rather
03:28:09	rasher	sounds like a dirty job
03:28:23	coob	yeah, gr_bitmaps are horrid
03:28:27	coob	i hate microwindows :/
03:28:52	coob	rockbox is written from the ground up, ipl stuff is written from the top down :)
03:28:58	rasher	Haha
03:29:12	rasher	You should start a rockbox port to ipod
03:29:21	coob	no thanks
03:29:30	coob	i'm a lazy developer... the worst kind
03:29:40	coob	i like having linux there
03:29:46	coob	makes porting stuff like doom easy :)
03:30:01	preglow	oooh, i'd love a rockbox port to ipod
03:30:11	preglow	chances are very good i'd buy an ipod for it
03:30:56	coob	well, all the hard re is done for you
03:31:46	preglow	indeed
03:31:50	preglow	just need someone to start the port
03:32:15	preglow	might actually give it a shot if some money falls in my lap some day
03:32:27	preglow	you got more than one core going yet, btw?
03:35:18	coob	hyyeah sort of
03:35:25	*	rasher starts watching the build table religiously
03:35:28	coob	well, yeah
03:35:34	coob	can assign a function to the cop
03:35:39	coob	the video player uses it
03:35:54	coob	we don't use it (really) for audio decoding yet
03:36:33	coob	the PP502[2\|0] is much nicer than the PP5002
03:37:31	preglow	coob: do you know how the apple firmware does it?
03:37:36	preglow	s/does/uses/
03:38:33	coob	i assume it uses one for the interface/file buffering and one for decoding
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03:39:04	coob	but i dont actually know
03:39:27	coob	i do know the PP5020 has some primitive sheduling stuff
03:39:57	preglow	yeah, that's kind of what i would have thought it did as well
03:40:08	preglow	both cores are equally powerful and have got their own iram?
03:40:49	coob	nope, only one bank of iram..
03:41:09	coob	they both run at the same speed so yeah
03:41:16	coob	we run them at 75mhz
03:41:50	preglow	hrmph, i'd love to dip my hands into some arm coding
03:42:44	rasher	A rockbox port would be cool.. you could triple boot it.. that'd be a first
03:43:06	preglow	hahaha
03:43:23	coob	haha that wouldn't be too difficult at all :)
03:50:53	preglow	idata is half full for flac
03:51:03	preglow	i'm pretty sure i'll have this baby in good shape before long
03:52:36	rasher	I see green builds.
03:54:13	preglow	so it would seem
03:54:38	rasher	coob: What's the deal with podzilla using old rockbox font files?
03:54:44	rasher	(if you know)
03:55:30	rasher	Seems weird since a) it uses pcf as well b) it uses the old format
03:57:13	coob	no idea..
03:57:27	rasher	fair enough
03:57:31	coob	i didnt do any of the font stuff
03:57:41	coob	i think microwindows can cope with fnt/pcf
03:57:55	rasher	Yeah
03:58:07	rasher	Wonder why fnt is used at all
04:00
04:01:55	rasher	I mean there's bdf2pcf..
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04:05:26	preglow	flac.c is such a nice mix of different code styles
04:05:36	preglow	oh well, might as well end the night with some relaxing code cleaning
04:13:20	*	rasher ponders nitpicking dansk.lang
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04:24:32	preglow	there
04:24:38	preglow	think i'll use what's left of the day for sleep
04:24:40	preglow	see you later
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06:41:52	ze	so the 1st-3rd gen ipod has the portalplayer PP5002, the karma has the PP5003, the 1st/2nd gen ipods have the wolfson WM8721 DAC as does the karma, the 3rd gen ipod has the cypress CY7C68013 USB chip as does the karma
06:42:09	ze	can't tell what LCD controller/driver the karma has though
07:00
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07:41:26	amiconn	morning
07:47:43	LinusN	morning
07:55:47	amiconn	I've done a >12 hour test recording yesterday; got not even a signle frame error. Was recording from line in, q=6, 44.1kHz, stereo
07:56:49	LinusN	lovely
08:00
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08:14:15	amiconn	LinusN: Did you read about my finding concerning the inclusion of the whole IRAM area into the rockbox binary, and the suggestion to introduce .ibss (and .iconst) sections in the logs?
08:14:37	LinusN	haven't read the logs yet
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08:15:33	amiconn	http://www.rockbox.org/irc/rockbox-20050905.txt starting 08:17
08:17:33	LinusN	iconst?
08:17:49	amiconn	Yes, for constants
08:17:55	LinusN	what would be the difference?
08:18:00	LinusN	from idata
08:18:28	amiconn	The difference is only for the compiler
08:18:48	amiconn	Handling in the iram copy routine would be same (even both at once)
08:19:19	amiconn	Have you tried declaring something like const int test = 32 IDATA_ATTR; ?
08:19:26	LinusN	ah, yes
08:19:43	amiconn	That doesn't work -> section attribute mismatch iirc
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08:36:33	LinusN	LANG_END_PLAYLIST_RECORDER is bad imho, it says "End of song list" instead of "End of playlist"
08:37:13	B4gder	isn't that to better cover for directories as well?
08:37:34	LinusN	it's the word "song" that bothers me the most
08:38:09	LinusN	and rockbox is all about playlist nowadays
08:38:18	B4gder	sure, but people don't know that
08:38:24	LinusN	directory play is just creating the playlist for you
08:38:55	LinusN	i think "end of song list" isn't any better than "end of playlist" in this context
08:39:33	LinusN	especially since there is no such thing as a "song list" anywhere else in rockbox
08:40:24	LinusN	and an audio book isn't a "song"
08:41:14	B4gder	I read you
08:41:22	B4gder	I still think playlist is a bit too restrictive
08:41:32	B4gder	for the simple minds of mere users
08:42:33	LinusN	i might accept "track list" or even just "list"
08:42:55	LinusN	or even "no more tracks"
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08:43:52	LinusN	i just think "song list" sound so lame
08:44:06	B4gder	I have no real opinion on either choice
08:49:36	amiconn	Hehe, deutsch.lang uses "Playlist zu Ende". Reminds me that I wanted to check the translation...
08:49:51	amiconn	In other places 'playlist' is translated...
08:50:50	LinusN	i think "end of playlist" is the best choice
08:50:58	amiconn	I agree
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08:55:26	LinusN	damn, gotta go
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09:00
09:13:39	iMark`away	could someone make me a logf build of something fairly recent?
09:13:45	iMark`away	or if they have one handy
09:13:55	iMark`away	logf is useful for the remote :)
09:14:04	iMark`away	and my cygwin is fucked
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09:27:21	ze	lastlog -regex '5002'
09:27:29	ze	oops
09:27:31	ze	erg wtf
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09:57:53	k0oba	mornin all as new i will ask my noob's question : is there a plug in to pitch mp3 with rockbox maybe stupid question...
09:59:01	Zagor	no. but on the archos version, pitch is built-in
10:00
10:00:06	k0oba	on my jukebox 6000 i cud pitch mp3 ? zagor ?
10:00:11	k0oba	hmmmmm
10:01:45	Zagor	sorry, recorder only
10:01:57	k0oba	thx a lot zagor
10:01:58	k0oba	:)
10:02:29	*	k0oba reminds me zagora beautiful place under the sun
10:04:53	HCl	doh..
10:05:06	HCl	anyone ever heard of htcpcp/1.0 ?
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10:05:24	Zagor	yeah. you run it?
10:05:32	HCl	no, not yet
10:05:52	HCl	i think i should find an implementation of it though.
10:06:01	Zagor	ultimate geek thing, along with udp over pigeon
10:06:11	HCl	mhm
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10:19:35	thomjoha	amiconn: cool, i didn't know using constraints like that was possible
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10:53:24	preglow	amiconn: and in case you haven't read the logs, i've got flac running a bit faster, you think that counts as a bugfix?
10:59:13	amiconn	preglow: I'd think so
10:59:32	amiconn	Even if it's not (only) a bug fix, it's not a new feature either
10:59:50	amiconn	Feature freeze does mean just that - no new features allowed
11:00
11:00:20	amiconn	In fact a number of things I've done recently aren't strictly bugfixes, but optimisations
11:03:12	preglow	yep
11:03:28	preglow	i've got the boost ratio down from 50% to 25% on one file
11:03:43	solex_	great!
11:03:47	preglow	do you know of any files that didn't play?
11:03:52	*	solex_ is copyying 2.5gb of flacs to his irver atm
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11:04:44	amiconn	preglow: I have a number of files that cause boost ratio of 100%, and stutter
11:05:12	amiconn	(a whole album encoded with -8)
11:06:02	amiconn	I wonder why you didn't think about the alternative constraint thingy - see my latest commit...
11:06:18	preglow	i didn't, because i didn't know it was possible with several constraints
11:06:28	preglow	i thought the inline assembler wasn't smart enoug
11:09:11	amiconn	The gcc manual is really helpful here...
11:09:13	amiconn	http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-3.4.4/gcc/Constraints.html#Constraints
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11:10:59	preglow	yeah, i've read it lots, still didn't know of that
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11:12:45	CoCoLUS	thank god for faster flac... almost all my files stuttered last time i tried
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11:13:48	kurzhaarrocker	LinusN: I think I won't find the time to fix split editor any further before V2.5. I'll be on vacation soon.
11:13:59	LinusN	saw that
11:14:06	kurzhaarrocker	ok
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11:23:00	solex_	has the flac patch been already committed?
11:29:30	ashridah	flac patch?
11:29:37	preglow	what patch?
11:29:55	preglow	i can commit it, yet
11:31:15	preglow	i take it iram isn't zeroed each time a codec is loaded?
11:31:35	preglow	should probably memset it to avoid surprises, since flac originally used calloc for this memory
11:32:30	amiconn	I think it does zero IRAM
11:33:09	amiconn	The codecs include the whole IRAM segment if they use IRAM, as do the plugins. This includes ".ibss" space
11:34:14	preglow	but yeah, code that used to be needed, but now isn't, should i take it out, or keep it to somehow easy merging of library updates?
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11:34:35	preglow	took out a bunch of mallocs and accompanying pointer checking
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11:43:32	preglow	aight, i'll just plain delete it then, to avoid having commented code spread all over the place
11:48:57	preglow	flac is such a malloc hell
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11:55:33	solex_	preglow: i was talking about your flac speedup you were talking about
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12:11:02	preglow	well
12:11:12	preglow	can't promise your files will work now either, but i'd think they should
12:11:33	preglow	i'll just ignore all the comments and commit it for now, so you can try it
12:11:39	preglow	i've got to leave for a couple of days soon anyway
12:12:21	solex_	preglow: until now, all my files played well
12:12:30	preglow	until now?
12:12:33	solex_	but reducing cpu load is always a good idea
12:12:46	preglow	ahh
12:12:46	solex_	and still :)
12:12:51	preglow	you weren't the one with the glitchy files
12:12:56	solex_	nope
12:13:43	preglow	there, commited
12:13:57	preglow	amiconn: you got a chance to test if your files work now?
12:14:12	solex_	great.
12:14:40	solex_	i won't be able to test it until this evening
12:14:54	solex_	but i'll report if i find an error
12:15:16	preglow	i wont be around, so lets hope you wont ;)
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12:44:23	amiconn	preglow: Not right now, but in the evening
12:55:19	pike	wanna see a cool little notebook ?
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14:59:26	amiconn	LinusN: Regarding your latest wps commit - I'm already thinking about a fundamental wps problem for a while.
14:59:56	amiconn	Currently, unconditional images are drawn with DRMODE_FG, in order to blend them with the wps content
15:00
15:00:54	amiconn	However, a number of users already requested 4-grey support, but for 4-grey bitmaps there is no draw mode, they're always drawn opaque
15:01:23	LinusN	yes, that will be a problem
15:01:29	amiconn	I did not yet find a good solution...
15:01:49	amiconn	Extending the bmp loader will be easy; that's a thing I want to do anyway
15:01:58	LinusN	that's the easy part
15:02:23	amiconn	It will be able to load any .bmp (except 32bit space-wasters) and convert to either mono or native format
15:03:05		Quit hicks ("Too lazy to change my quit message")
15:03:32	amiconn	Meaning, it will load 1, 4, 8, 16 and 24 bit uncompressed bmps, similar to bmp2rb, just with way less memory consumption
15:05:08	amiconn	The only solution for the bg image problem I can think of is drawing unconditional images first, then text content, then conditional images
15:05:31	LinusN	the problem is that the text is drawn opaque
15:05:51	amiconn	Yes, and always up to the end of line
15:06:04	amiconn	...except with multi-alignment
15:08:49	amiconn	Hmm, text isn't necessarily drawn opaque. lcd_puts() does this, but lcd_putsxy() uses the draw mode like any other drawing function
15:09:57	LinusN	we could try DRMODE_FG
15:10:47	amiconn	It will require to do a full redraw if any line of text changes though
15:11:21	amiconn	...because there is no way to remove the old text from the background
15:12:03	LinusN	yup
15:13:15	amiconn	Some parts will always need to use DRMODE_SOLID, e.g. scrolling text, peakmeter
15:13:48	amiconn	With a new design, we could allow to set foreground and background shade for these elements
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16:00:52	LinusN	amiconn: what's left in the "Xing header generation" issue in ReleaseTodo?
16:03:41	amiconn	Long recordings (or shorter recordings started after a long time of prerecording etc.) get a Xing header without framecount
16:04:33	amiconn	That's the problem I intend to solve with estimation from the recording time; I'm working on it
16:04:47	amiconn	You know, the 32bit overflow problem
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16:05:33	amiconn	Calculating playtime from frametime in msec and framecount (and the reverse calculation) wil never overflow for mp3s stored on a FAT(32) partition,
16:06:18	amiconn	but the same calculation based on framecount, sample frequency and frame size in samples may overflow
16:07:26	amiconn	The (rather synthetic) worst case would be a 2GB-1 file with 8kbps and 24 kHz sample rate
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16:08:42	amiconn	The frame length in such a file would be 24 bytes, so framecount = (2GB-1) / 24B . Multiply by frametime (24 msec) does just not overflow...
16:09:50	LinusN	ok
16:09:58	amiconn	I'll try with long long, but I expect the binary to grow significantly...
16:10:48	amiconn	The bad thing with frame_time is that it's somewhat off for 44.1, 22.05 (and 11.025) kHz
16:14:18	LinusN	gotta go now, cu later
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16:17:13	*	amiconn found a solution...
16:18:00	amiconn	Fortunately 44100 and 1152 have a number of factors in common, so 44100 / 1152 can be reduced to 1225 / 32
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18:18:08	webguest79	in wps can I write, %?bt >20 and <30
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18:23:12	rasher	webguest79: No.
18:23:22	rasher	There's nothing like that.
18:26:16	webguest79	thanks, pity, I wanted to add several icon bmp's to indidcate battery level,
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20:04:30	amiconn	re LinusN
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20:05:52	amiconn	I can't say I like the current wps image solution, especially with your latest image inflation commit
20:06:13	preglow	amiconn: tried any flacs?
20:06:31	amiconn	A really sophisticated wps uses so many .bmps that it's an utter mess
20:06:59	LinusN	amiconn: what is wrong with it?
20:07:12	amiconn	I'd want to reduce image loading support to one single image, and the display tags should allow clipping
20:07:33	LinusN	one image?
20:08:02	amiconn	This way, any graphical wps design would consist of exactly 2 files, the .wps defining the layout and the .bmp containing the graphics
20:08:51	LinusN	you mean it would cut out the various images from one large bmp?
20:08:55	amiconn	yup
20:09:02	amiconn	Many skinning systems do that
20:09:05	LinusN	why would that be better?
20:09:31	amiconn	- less sophisticated loading
20:09:41	amiconn	- faster loading of the whole wps
20:09:54	LinusN	but instead much more sophisticated cutting from the bmp
20:10:05	amiconn	- .wps file will probably get smaller, because of only one filename
20:10:19	LinusN	but instead a lot of cutting instructions
20:10:38	amiconn	The cutting is simple, just pass the 6 parameters to lcd_mono_bitmap_part(). It will do the rest
20:11:15	LinusN	sounds like it would be a lot more difficult to make a wps
20:11:26	amiconn	Every image display tag would have 6 parameters instead of 5, but you will save <n-1> image loading tags for <n> images
20:11:55	LinusN	but you would have to use a more advanced image editor to create the wps graphics
20:12:01	amiconn	Hmm?
20:12:15	LinusN	ms paint won't do anymore
20:12:30	amiconn	The images for all wps's in the gallery are tailor-made anyway
20:12:40	amiconn	ms paint would still suffice
20:13:06	LinusN	of course they are, but merging all images and calculating the cutting coordinates will be a pain with ms paint
20:13:11	amiconn	It does display coordinates
20:13:14	preglow	ms paint isnt exactly good at the pixel level
20:13:23	amiconn	Huh?
20:14:03	amiconn	Ever tried View->Zoom->Magnify (or whatever it is called in english ms paint) ?
20:14:11	LinusN	we will revamp the entire wps anyway, won't we?
20:14:28	dpassen1	in paint, you can even show the grid of pixels
20:14:33	amiconn	LinusN: yes
20:14:49	amiconn	..but that shouldn't stop us from doing it incrementally
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20:15:59	LinusN	all i want is to make it work well in this release
20:16:00	preglow	but has anyone checked to see if problem flacs play? feedback would be most interesting
20:16:30	amiconn	preglow: I just started my problematic album and let it stay in audio thread debug screen
20:16:52	preglow	excellent
20:16:54	amiconn	Boost ratio 50..60 % so far
20:17:05	preglow	ouch
20:17:11	preglow	my files were at around 25%
20:17:15	*	rasher catches the digital flow
20:17:33	rasher	Let's see if any of these exhibit problems without your opts
20:17:55	preglow	theres tons more to be done for flac, i just did the simplest of the simplest stuff
20:18:22	amiconn	preglow: This album was locked at 100% before...
20:18:37	LinusN	wow
20:19:09	preglow	then success
20:19:13	preglow	flac can be saved indeed
20:19:53	LinusN	gotta go now, i hope i'll be back later this evening
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20:21:33	rasher	went from 100% to ~60% for me as well
20:21:47	paugh	preglow, sorry, i missed the start of this conversation.. are the flac improvements in the latest build?
20:21:55	rasher	Using rasher.dk/rockbox/soundfiles/iriver-best.flac">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/soundfiles/iriver-best.flac
20:22:04	rasher	paugh: Latest bleeding edge build, yes
20:22:15	paugh	cheers
20:22:24	amiconn	preglow: Now up to 70%, but still playing fine
20:22:39	preglow	like i said
20:22:44	preglow	ive hardly touched it
20:22:49	preglow	iram is still only half-full
20:23:06	preglow	as soon as ive got a reliable method of performance measurement, ill start with some more stuff
20:23:26	Moos	maybe MPC :)?
20:23:44	preglow	Moos: sorry, but no, heh, not unless i get immensly bored
20:24:04	Moos	don't worries
20:24:35	Moos	any mpa improvments with this free space iram?
20:25:35	preglow	yes
20:25:41	preglow	ive got mp1 and mp2 running faster
20:25:56	Moos	oh wonderfull :)
20:26:00	preglow	and ill see about mp3 as well
20:26:44	preglow	Moos: mpc support requires a full rewrite of the libmusepack math part, which im not exactly keen to do myself
20:27:35	rasher	Seems the musepack devs started hiding..
20:28:54	rasher	Bagder?
20:31:17	Bagder	yes?
20:31:39	CoCoLUS	preglow
20:31:42	CoCoLUS	my flacs play fine now
20:31:42	preglow	CoCoLUS: yo
20:31:45	preglow	excellent
20:31:47	CoCoLUS	no stuttering
20:31:54	CoCoLUS	although i just have two albums :)
20:32:03	CoCoLUS	but those played fine.
20:32:04	preglow	hehe, i have none
20:32:29	rasher	Bagder: could I have the xml blob from SF? (unless it contains sekrit details)
20:32:40	rasher	Going to see about importing into bugzilla
20:32:46	rasher	Have a local installation running now
20:32:52	Bagder	sure you can, hang on...
20:34:55	rasher	Debian package of bugzilla works nicely btw
20:35:33	Bagder	goodie
20:36:09	Bagder	the xml is ~6.5MB
20:36:25	rasher	I guess it needs a bit of tweaking if you want it to run out of /bugzilla/ instead of /cgi-bin/bugzilla/
20:36:32	rasher	Compressed?
20:36:40	Bagder	830K compressed
20:36:49	rasher	Excellent
20:36:55	rasher	Email?
20:37:06	Bagder	didn't see my privmsg?
20:37:37	rasher	There we go
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21:00
21:04:03	Zagor	seen this? http://www.apple.com/ipodnano/
21:04:18	Zagor	apparently people did want a screen on their players after all...
21:04:45	HCl	heh
21:08:28	dpassen1	who would've thought
21:08:35	dpassen1	4 GBs of flash is pretty sweet though
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21:09:06	dpassen1	i wonder if people will be ripping out the flash like the micro drives with the minis
21:09:22	preglow	damn
21:09:24	preglow	thats small
21:09:28	preglow	hardware info, please ;)
21:09:48	Zagor	portalplayer for sure
21:10:29	HCl	i don't see what people see in ipods..
21:10:56	coob	its app502x
21:10:58	dpassen1	its a status thing, walk around a college campus, tons
21:11:00	coob	its a PP502x
21:11:04	coob	not sure if 20 or 22
21:11:05	HCl	dpassen1: haha. yea. the cost of a 4gb flash is more than the cost of that thing
21:11:23	HCl	in compactflash anyways :p
21:11:28	dpassen1	could use 4 GBs of flash for my dads D70
21:11:38	coob	it wont be too quick (the flash) :)
21:11:43	dpassen1	true
21:11:43	HCl	yea.
21:12:08	dpassen1	it'll be a long time before i upgrade my iHP-120, hopefully ;-)
21:12:20	HCl	same, only iHP-140
21:12:49	HCl	iriver rocks :)
21:13:00	dpassen1	hardware, maybe
21:13:39	HCl	why?
21:13:49	dpassen1	you were a fan of the iHP firmware?
21:13:54	HCl	you can just upgrade the disk if you really want to..
21:13:59	HCl	oh, no, nm, i get it :)
21:14:02	dpassen1	yea
21:14:03	HCl	yes, the iriver hardware rocks
21:14:09	dpassen1	i wouldn't buy a new mp3 player unless i was certain of an impending rockbox port
21:14:23	HCl	just today a classmate saw my iriver and told me iriver owns :p
21:14:27	HCl	and that its a fun toy, heh :p
21:14:42	HCl	i wonder if he knows rockbox o.o.
21:14:45	dpassen1	heh, i've seen 2 other iHP-1x0s in more than 2 years at my school
21:14:49	HCl	same.
21:14:51	HCl	well
21:14:57	HCl	i know markun, obviously
21:15:01	HCl	and then someone else i worked with
21:15:05	HCl	told me he had an 120
21:15:21	HCl	he was watching my computer remotely and saw my h140 connected
21:16:08	HCl	so i know 2 other people who have one, and one person who knows about them..
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21:16:52	dpassen1	one of my roommates in my apartment has an iAudio X5 30 GB, its not as impressive as i thought it'd be
21:16:54	*	HCl stares at a soccer match.
21:17:02	HCl	geeze. 3-0 for the netherlands..
21:17:13	HCl	i never saw an iaudio x5
21:17:27	HCl	how is it not as impressive as you thought it to be?
21:17:45	dpassen1	its significantly smaller than my 120, but the firmware is very reminiscent of the iHPs and i hate waiting for it to play its little intro video on bootup
21:17:54	HCl	XD
21:17:58	HCl	thats nasty
21:17:59	Bagder	hahaha
21:18:16	dpassen1	also, it currently has an odd sorting behavior A-Z, then a-z
21:18:18	]RowaN[	right, ive got my souncard going into my amp now via digital coax (not optical).. is it normal that volume/treble/bass settings on my pc affect the output? i thought it would just send a clean signal, like the irivers optical output does (correct me if im wrong)
21:18:40	coob	northern ireland/england is a boring game :/
21:18:53	HCl	dpassen1: thats a quite common sorting flaw
21:19:00	HCl	dpassen1: iriver original has that too
21:19:17	dpassen1	yes, the firmware is very similar to irivers
21:19:37	HCl	i never understood why irivers didn't support on the fly playlists.
21:19:47	dpassen1	also, i can't imagine who decided to put the USB 1.1 OTG port on the player, but the 2.0 port on a separate subpack
21:19:47	HCl	hence i made the searchengine
21:21:21	rasher	okay, that ipod nano is slick looking
21:21:45	HCl	i still don't get attracted by it...
21:23:52	rasher	now why they'd put a colourscreen on it...
21:24:20	Maxime	because "colour is great!! even if it's useless!"
21:24:20	dpassen1	'wow factor'
21:24:21	Maxime	:x
21:24:24	coob	erm rasher
21:24:29	coob	it does have a colour screen
21:24:36	coob	oh
21:24:36	rasher	Yes.. which is what I don't get
21:24:40	coob	i read why don't...
21:24:41	coob	heh.
21:24:42	coob	:/
21:25:02	coob	because some people have pictures, and like to look at them.
21:25:17	coob	and some people like watching family guy on their ipods (i.e. me)
21:25:20	rasher	If this was around a year ago I wouldn't have bought my h120
21:25:30	rasher	I never really wanted 20gb
21:25:36	dpassen1	rasher: a 4 GB player would have swayed you?
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21:25:38	amiconn	preglow: The album played almost up to the end; average boost ratio 66%
21:25:39	rasher	And smaller is better.
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21:25:41	dpassen1	oops
21:25:56	amiconn	The hang near the end was caused by low bat...
21:26:19	rasher	Oh wait, I keep forgetting the horrible itunes deal
21:26:30	rasher	There's still no way in hell I'd be buying an ipod.
21:26:48	coob	tool.
21:26:54	rasher	Hm?
21:27:01	coob	i said
21:27:03	coob	tool.
21:27:11	coob	not buying an ipod because it's an ipod?
21:27:11	rasher	I want to be able to use my player as a UMS device. Purely.
21:27:21	coob	you can.
21:27:31	coob	if you use linux :)
21:27:33	rasher	No, because I can't just put music on it wwithout jumping through hoops
21:27:41	dpassen1	you can't play music you've loaded on via UMS
21:27:56	coob	running an open source db generator is jumping through hoops? ok.
21:28:05	coob	dpassen1: you can with linux :)
21:28:20	rasher	Well yeah, it is.
21:28:34	dpassen1	still no gapless or replaygain, which are big selling points for me
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21:29:05	rasher	Does ipods even allow anything like browse-by-filesystem?
21:29:17	dpassen1	nope, only their db
21:29:31	rasher	Well that's another deal-breaker to me
21:29:38	Bagder	ipodlinux does I guess ;-)
21:29:48	rasher	About that Rockbox port to ipod...
21:30:05		Quit Mxm`Pas`Bien (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:30:18	webguest77	the ipodlounge was great for doing reasearch on the pod, was put off by the windows users problems
21:30:35	coob	ipodlounge is horrid :/
21:30:44	dpassen1	ilounge, nowadays
21:30:48	coob	ipodlinux does.
21:31:02	coob	whatever lounge, it's a pile of turd.
21:31:11	dpassen1	heh
21:32:07	webguest77	but the defects are real, forums are great tools for assessing units failures
21:35:14	webguest77	coob: does ipodlinux playback mp3 gapless ?
21:36:32	coob	nope.
21:36:42	coob	i'm the only person working on the music backend
21:36:45	coob	and i'm terribly lazy
21:37:13	webguest77	so it'll be a while then :)
21:37:21	coob	webguest77: forums are filled with clueless tools, i wouldn't treat anything on any forum worth shit.
21:37:47	coob	webguest77: probably not, when people actually bother to work, developing under linux is actualy really quick
21:37:58	rasher	ipl does seem sort of immature - the code (or distro more like), not the coders
21:38:00	coob	as you can really easily port stuff.
21:38:07	webguest77	yes and no, I can differentiate between a teenagers rant and a real problem
21:38:08	coob	it's not very efficient, but meh, it works.
21:38:28	coob	webguest77: i just cant be bothered to wade through 839021830921 posts of OMG L@@K
21:38:42	webguest77	I share that sentiment
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22:05:22		Quit solex (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:05:41	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:13:07	preglow	amiconn: you exited before the end, or it started skipping?
22:14:25	amiconn	None of the two
22:14:40	amiconn	It started disk spinup/down/up/down...
22:15:05	amiconn	Then I connected the charger, but it didn't recover.
22:15:53	amiconn	I was able to return from the debug menu to the wps. Playback was stopped, wps showed last position
22:16:14	amiconn	Another STOP press returned to the browser as normal
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22:19:30	amiconn	There are still many quirks in the sw playback engine :(
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22:52:17	preglow	yes, yes there are
22:52:32	preglow	well, well
22:52:38	preglow	at least flac behaves better now
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23:08:51	rasher	"News.com is reporting that Microsoft is hauling the European Commission into court" ... what the...
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23:20:15	San	anyone know the name of the main prosessing chip in the H300?
23:20:21	San	is it moterola?
23:20:33	Bagder	tried the wiki?
23:20:45	San	not yet
23:20:47	San	is it in there?
23:20:51	Bagder	yes
23:20:54	San	thanks
23:21:04	Bagder	http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IriverH3XXHardwareComponents#Motorola_Coldfire_Integrated_Mic
23:21:17	San	ah, thanks
23:21:26	rasher	Bagder: I'm going to give up on the bugzilla import I think
23:21:40	]RowaN[	in rockbox when you delete a file it asks u to presss PLAY to confirm, but play does not confirm the deletion.. you have to click the joystick to confirm (iriver)
23:22:39	rasher	]RowaN[: correct.
23:22:40	Bagder	]RowaN[: yes that is an old and known issue
23:23:31	Bagder	it'll get fixed in the language overhaul
23:23:59	rasher	Comments must include a mention of which buttons are used on different units
23:24:08	rasher	otherwise translators would have to own every device
23:24:44	Bagder	well yes, but soon the english strings will differ for different targets
23:24:54	Bagder	for this very reason
23:24:58	rasher	Oh right.
23:25:09	rasher	I forgot that there are English strings to go by
23:25:26	Bagder	:-)
23:25:59	amiconn	I'm thinking about icons for the buttons for quite some time now
23:26:03	rasher	13 languages fully done.. quite good
23:26:16	amiconn	I'm still not sure whether this would be a good idea, but...
23:26:32	amiconn	...it has some advantages
23:26:51	amiconn	(1) Icons don't need to be translated :P
23:27:02	amiconn	(2) They take up less space on the display
23:27:47	preglow	hmm
23:28:04	preglow	and what would an icon for the joystick look like? ;)
23:28:29	rasher	I know!
23:28:29	amiconn	That's one reason why I am not sure it would be a good idea
23:28:54	rasher	rasher.dk/rockbox/icons-6x7/">http://rasher.dk/rockbox/icons-6x7/ < has a joystick icon
23:28:57	rasher	sortof
23:29:02	amiconn	The F buttons on the recorders is another case
23:29:16	preglow	rasher: where is it?
23:29:18	amiconn	...but I doubt these will be used verbatim in a request
23:29:30	rasher	preglow: search for joystick in the page
23:29:32	amiconn	They are intended to be used as soft buttons, so...
23:29:39	preglow	ahh
23:29:47	preglow	well, its not exactly that kind of a joystick, hehe
23:29:56	rasher	True, but it'd get the point across
23:29:59	amiconn	An icon for the Ondio MODE button could also be difficult
23:31:23	preglow	amiconn: what do you think of compressing the lower end of the volume scale, btw? i dont know if you read yesterday nights logs
23:31:37	amiconn	Why?
23:31:48	amiconn	I don't think this is a good idea
23:32:13	preglow	i think its more sensible, everything from 0 to 60 could easily be compressed to a smaller range, since its a range that really doesnt need as much detail as 0-60 give
23:32:16	preglow	s
23:32:21		Join DangerousDan [0] (n=Miranda@newtpulsifer.campus.luth.se)
23:32:41	preglow	linear db doesnt give linear loudness perception, at least for me
23:32:51	preglow	and linear loudness perception is what we really want, imho
23:32:59	amiconn	The current scale is a linear-to-dB mappinq (well, except 0% of course) and I think this is the most meaningful mapping
23:33:41	rasher	50-60 is more or less the same "difference" as 0-50 to me
23:33:47	amiconn	Compressing 0 to 60 to a smaller scale would actually compress the range I use most when using earphones, so I wouldn't like that at all
23:33:50	preglow	rasher; yes, exactly
23:34:18	preglow	amiconn: at those volumes, i hear practically nothing with my setup
23:34:33	Moos	here too :(
23:34:47	amiconn	When I'm listening in a quiet environment, I can easily go down to 45 and still enjoy my music
23:35:09	preglow	that i cant
23:35:10	amiconn	(on H1x0)
23:35:15	preglow	earplugs?
23:35:28	amiconn	Sennheiser MX450
23:36:34	preglow	the step from 0 to 60 db is about as big a step in loudness as 60-80 for me
23:36:40	preglow	s/db//
23:37:15	rasher	Hm, is MX500 the successor to 450, I wonder
23:37:29	amiconn	I bet it's not
23:38:05	amiconn	Iirc MX500 and MX550 have a builtin volume control
23:38:31	rasher	So they do
23:38:37	rasher	And "bass boost".. argh!
23:38:38	preglow	noticed that iriver firmware uses a linear db scale down to the last ten points, where a log scale is used
23:38:41	*	amiconn is confused about mpeg versions, layers and frame sizes
23:38:51	preglow	and in use it seems a much better scale, to me
23:38:53	rasher	Oh well, I don't own any "real" headphones anyway.
23:39:01	preglow	amiconn: how?
23:39:03	amiconn	Different sources give contradicting info....
23:39:19	preglow	ah,i notice that too
23:39:33	amiconn	I'm looking for the # of sample in each of version 1/2/2.5 and layer 1/2/3
23:39:35	preglow	i bet libmad can give you the correct answers
23:39:56	amiconn	Layer 3 is easy, and consistent
23:40:25	amiconn	V1L3 has 1152 samples/frame, V2L3 and V2.5L3 have 576 samples/frame
23:41:09	amiconn	But it seems that this "halve-size rule" for V2 and V2.5 doesn't hold for layer 1 and 2
23:41:25	amiconn	This also means our code in mp3data.c is wrong...
23:41:28	pill	hi
23:42:10	pill	is there a reason why some file genres dont get retrieved by %ig?
23:42:53	pill	the genre is there, it just doesn't get displayed by the WPS
23:43:25	rasher	Could you supply a file? (unless of course someone pops in and give the answer)
23:44:02	pill	well i could
23:44:12	pill	email?
23:44:18	rasher	sure
23:44:38	rasher	my name at-sign my name .dk
23:45:02	rasher	actually no
23:45:11	rasher	use jfh at-sign adr .dk
23:45:26	rasher	The other one does greylisting and may end up delaying the mail half an hour
23:45:35	rasher	Which seems broken
23:45:41	pill	sign-adr
23:45:42	pill	?
23:46:03	rasher	@adr.dk
23:46:06	pill	ah
23:46:08	rasher	with jfh first
23:46:08	pill	heh
23:46:09	pill	k
23:46:12	pill	yaya
23:46:14	pill	hold
23:46:18	*	rasher punches the spambots
23:49:04	pill	on its way
23:49:07	pill	it's 4MB
23:50:15	pill	it does it on several files
23:50:19	pill	for no apparent reason
23:50:40	rasher	Here we go.. downloading..
23:52:30		Join ashridah [0] (i=ashridah@220-253-120-100.VIC.netspace.net.au)
23:53:29	preglow	make.bat in liwavpack is pretty redundant....
23:57:04	rasher	Hm.. doesn't seem to be in id3.c
23:57:09	rasher	129 - Hardcore
23:57:43	pill	though i have many Hardcore tracks and it's displayed
23:57:48	rasher	anything > 126
23:57:55	pill	ah
23:58:01	rasher	That's probably because it's a id3v2 tag
23:58:06	rasher	Those just include the text
23:58:14	rasher	But this is v1 only
23:58:26	pill	indeed
23:58:28	rasher	And Rockbox doesn't seem to know about v1 genre numbers >126
23:58:29	pill	let me test
23:58:50	pill	ohyeah
23:58:55	pill	you seem to be right

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